← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 406: When Kids Are Too Busy for Childhood | Pam Lobley, Why Can't We Just Play?
00:46:42
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- [00:01]
Ginny Urich
Hello friends. Hello friends. It's Ginny Urich and I'm so thrilled to kick off another year with you here on the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. Before we dive in, I want to say a huge thank you. This past year was Incredible with over 4 million downloads this year alone. I'm so grateful for each of you who listened, shared and left reviews. Your support keeps this movement growing and I can't wait to see what we'll accomplish together in 2025 to celebrate the new year. We have new tracker sheets available now with over 20 design options waiting for you because seeing your progress can be so motivating and it's an amazing thing to model to our children to prioritize hands on living. You can check Those out at 1000hours outside.comTrackers and speaking of motivation, did you know that in the last two decades, childhood has largely moved indoors? On average, kids today spend just four to seven minutes a day in unstructured outdoor play, compared to over seven hours in front of screens. This is a huge shift that impacts everything from physical health to mental well being, as well as things like grit and resilience, flexibility, confidence, creativity, and even empathy. But with every hour we spend outside, we're making a difference not just for our kids, but for ourselves too. This year, let's keep it going. And if you're looking for inspiration, today's episode is with the Amazing Pam Loudly. Everyone loves her. She's back with her unique mix of humor and heart, tackling topics like over scheduling, parental peer pressure, why embracing imperfection is an amazing gift that we can give our families. Don't forget to grab a copy of my book until the street lights come on for even more encouragement. And if you enjoy the show, I'd love it, love it, love it. And be so thankful if you could leave a five star review and share it with a friend or family member. Together, we're making a huge impact. Let's jump into 2025 with hope, intention and plenty of fresh air. And without further ado, here is Pam Labley.
- [01:54]
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- [02:23]
Pam Labley
Edu.
- [02:25]
Yes.
- [02:25]
And this is one of the best books I've ever read. Even though it's not actually a book yet. I was like, oh, is it coming out, like, next month?
- [02:32]
Yeah.
- [02:33]
Like, this is so good.
- [02:34]
Thank you.
- [02:34]
All right, well, we're gonna talk about a book that's, like. It's, like, in the ether that's in progress.
- [02:40]
But, you know, the thing is that as I've been working on this, I think a lot about the things. I listen to your podcast pretty regularly and some other ones, too. Dr. Bob Hamilton. You know, all the things about childhood.
- [02:50]
Yeah.
- [02:50]
Even though I'm out of that phase, it still resonates so deeply for me because your kids are still your kids, you know? And I also know because we talked about this before, like, there's nothing out there about teen motherhood. I shouldn't say there's nothing. There is stuff, but there's not.
- [03:07]
Like this. We're in it. We're going. Pam. I want to go.
- [03:10]
You are.
- [03:10]
We're back with Pam. Lobby. And I adore Pam Loudly. Your episode that we recorded, and I'll put it in the show notes so that people can link to it, was one of our most popular episodes of the year. Pam, people adore you and your book. Why Can't I just Play? That's what it's called, the first one. Why can't I just Play?
- [03:28]
Why can't we just play?
- [03:29]
Why can't we? Yes. Because we all want to play, including the moms, including the dads.
- [03:33]
Yeah.
- [03:33]
It's just such a touching book, and I don't even remember how we connected, but every once in a while, you know, I read a lot of books, and then every once in a while you get one, and you're like, this just touched my soul. So I was just so glad that you were willing to come back. I think that parents need your voice. They need to hear you in their ears and hear your perspective, because you say things in a way that I've not read other places. So we asked you if you would come back. You're so popular the last time. The book is so meaningful. I recommend it to any family to read. And you sent over. This is funny, Pam.
- [04:08]
I know.
- [04:08]
You send over a couple chapters from. From a manuscript of a new book, and I was like, this is incredible writing. I was like, I am. I was crying. I'm reading through it. And then we hopped on just, you know, a couple minutes ago. And I'm like, well, Pam, when's It coming out and you're like, don't know. Yeah, but you're writing. It's just something about the way that your. Your perspective and the way that you string the words together. I was like, this is so touching. I'm gonna. I'm starting here where I started to cry. I mean, crying. I had to get a Kleenex box. Pam.
- [04:42]
That. I'm sorry. But also thank you.
- [04:45]
Yeah. For your book. That's like not even out and we don't even know when it's coming out. It needs to come out. Here's where I started to cry. All of parenting is a flow, a leave taking. It doesn't seem obvious at first, but really, from the time they stop waking up to be fed in the night and learn to sleep on their own, they are taking tiny steps away from us and becoming independent. So I started cry here. You're talking about at the end of the play. So the kids are at the play? They perform in the play. Yes. It's like high schoolers, you know, like. And it's so exciting. We have high schoolers, Pam. Like, nothing is more exciting than the send off, you know, it's like our kids are starting to go on airplanes by themselves and they're starting to, you know, drive to their own things. And it's very exciting. You're very happy for them. You remember how it was when you were that age, how excited you were. But you write this. So the play ends, all the kids come out, everyone's congratulating and you wrote, the director mingles with us, accepts compliments and congratulates the kids. And then the kids quickly detach from us parents and go back to joking with their friends, eyes darting away from me or their grandmother to see if that friend is still here or if the girl they like is over there. And then they form their plans for where they will go now for the post show revelry, the diner or Applebee's, etc. And the next thing you know, they are asking for the car keys or arranging a ride. And then they are off with their friends to have fun and stay out late eating chicken wings or chocolate chip pancakes or being. Is it ruckus?
- [06:11]
Raucous.
- [06:12]
Yeah, raucous. That's such a bad reader. Raucous in restaurants. And we parents stand there holding their backpacks or calling after them to drive safely. Then we smile and nod to other parents. The hallway is quiet now we go home, the gloss of the evening still bright for us. The weeks of late night rehearsals and nerves, the rush of pre show dinner and the hours of the performance tonight settle into silence. We are suddenly tired. We fiddle around at home while we stay up late to pick them up or wait for them to come home once they drive and realize how quickly we have become extra to them. I should have brought a box of Kleenex in here. Pam.
- [06:52]
I can still remember. I mean, obviously I wrote it. That feeling, that. And it's just like you say, you're so happy. This is what you've been working for. It's the most exciting things to see your kids try things, succeed, have fun, have friends like you say, you remember what it was like for you and you just want that for them. But then there's this other piece of, oh my gosh, I'm going home now, and it's really quiet and, you know, I'm kind of extra. It's more important to them to go have fun, as it should be. This is normal. This is totally normal. But it's still hard. It is still hard. And that's why that's kind of like the other half of the motherhood journey. It's kind of like ironic that the first half we're all dealing with, my God, how do I handle all these kids and all their demands and all these things? Where am I in this? I'm exhausted. And then you sort of put your own mom identity together and you figure out how to run your family life. And then the flow goes the other way. For everything was coming in, now everything is going out. The kids are out more. Everything is. Their needs are on the outside more, et cetera. And there you are, like, okay, now I have to, you know, get to my next step, whatever that's going to be.
- [08:14]
You wrote about how. Because I've thought this before, I've had friends that have moved, and especially back when we had young kids, a lot of my friends that I had made, you know, their husbands were here, I guess, for residency programs. We lived near the University of Michigan. So I think a lot of them were here for that and their husbands were in residency programs. And so everyone was trying to deal with their little kids together and then they got jobs and moved.
- [08:38]
Yes.
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And I've always thought that, you know, when you move, there's all these exciting new people to meet and new places to go. And if you're the one who didn't move, you are happy for them, but you also get left behind. You're left with a hole.
- [08:53]
Yes, yes, that is true. You know, I used to think that having a career or a Full life, which I, you know, I was definitely. I tried to keep a balance. I wouldn't say I was one of those people that totally lived through my kids or for my kids, but it doesn't matter. If you're. If you're pretty involved, as we all are with our kids, then it leaves a hole. And, you know, trying to get to that place, there's that. I don't know who's. If this was from a Dr. Seuss book or something. Such a corny saying, but it's like, don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. So, you know, you gotta try to get to that place. But I also think. I also like the feeling of being able to grieve that. Like, I think it's important to be able to recognize that was a beautiful thing. And it's natural that they're. That it's coming to an end. And we can sit with that. We can feel that and appreciate that. It feels appropriate, I think, to just feel that feel. Feel. It's gonna sound terrible. Feel the feeling of being left and then let it be. Okay.
- [10:03]
What about this? I mean, this story, I think, was really powerful. I love that you. Is like, you give a little bit of a forecast, and by giving a forecast, you allow people to really think about their now.
- [10:14]
Yes. That was one of the things that I wanted to put through this book, is that because I. And I'm still, like, forming exactly the trajectory of it. But the idea that when you. As you're going through motherhood sometimes, and you know, you want to appreciate as much as you can, and I think most of us do, you can't love every day. It's too hard. But, you know, hopefully you're appreciating as much as you can. And to remember that it's finite, like, in a good way, in a bad way. All the things that were horrible and the teen years are hard, you know, first of all, I thought I was going to have a heart attack every time I got in the car. Teaching them to drive, that was like, the worst. One of the hardest parts of parenting for me was that I live in New Jersey, where it's crowded and there's highways. You know, you got to teach your kid to merge. And it is harrowing. But you know what? It passed. They learned how to drive, and it's over. So the bad things go and the good things go, and that's, you know, you got to kind of get used to that flow. It's like, I quote my dad in the book all of life is change. If you can get the hang of it, that's great.
- [11:21]
It's a great ending. You don't, don't spoil it. That was the ending. Is that the last chapter?
- [11:26]
I don't think so, but I don't think so.
- [11:28]
Okay. It's the last chapter that I read. Oh, that was, that was witty. I liked. Well, your writing is already. You used to be a maybe still are. Your comedian. Improv.
- [11:39]
Well, yeah, I don't do improv comedy. But in all my writing I, I try to be funny. I mean I, I, that's kind of my, the way I see the world. And I also just think we all need to laugh a whole lot more.
- [11:49]
Yes.
- [11:50]
About everything.
- [11:51]
Yes.
- [11:51]
So I always try to bring a humor to it. And I think too, any parent of teens definitely needs some humor in their life and laughing because it's, you know, they say little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. And I feel, I feel bad for parents and teens because of the social media now makes it seem like everybody is doing fine and perfect and it's such an. That's hard to feel like that.
- [12:18]
Yeah, there's a lot. And like you talk about, and you talked about it a little bit in why Can't We Just Play. You talk about how then you're even more isolated because the things are private and you can't really talk about them much and so you feel a little bit stuck. But I wanted to say this about the forecasting. You can put yourself in your shoes through your writing and it makes you think about how you want to live today. So one of the things you talked about, you're like, oh yeah, like this is going to happen at some point. You're dropping your kid off at college or you're going to visit the college. You're in that stage, right. And you're like, you say to the person, well, you know, what about all the drinking and what about all the partying? You know? And they're like, hopefully you raised them right. I mean that was the response. Right. It's like, I mean, there's nothing else. And you said one of the major lessons that day was when it's over, it's over. There's no going back, no do overs. What we did or failed to do was behind us. Our child was about to step out into the big wide, booze soaked world and all we could do was hope we had done a good enough job raising him.
- [13:29]
Yeah. Which is scary because I feel like my husband and I did, you know, did a Good job. We tried really hard. Of course we made mistakes. But you also don't control everything from the time. And I'm sure you see this with your teens when they're off with their own friends, they make their choices. So. And yes, you put all your good into them, but they're still human beings, and they're still teens. They. So they can make a bad choice, a poor choice, whatever. So you just worry. You want to make sure that you did everything, but you also are sort of just hoping and praying that what. You know, that it's going to be fine. And that's another, I think, really hard thing about parenting, like, the letting go of it, which is that I no longer really control things. Like, they could make a good or a bad choice, and I have nothing to do about it. You know, it's. That is a hard thing. Very hard. You know, when. When my son graduated from college, the one that I'm talking about in the book, Sam, we went down to his. To his graduation, and he went to a really big school. So it was one of these huge things. But I remember feeling so proud of him because I really had nothing to do with this college journey. He moved away to school. He went to school in Florida. So whatever he did, I mean, he called us and of course we saw summer breaks and holidays. But, like, he wasn't asking me to quiz him on the. He wasn't. I was in no way helping him. He did everything on his own, as they all do. So when he got up and got that diploma, I was like, wow, look what he did. My husband and I didn't do it. We paid for it, but he did it. Whereas with high school, I definitely felt like it was more of a family thing. I was there for every step of the way. You know, the happy moments, the moments when you didn't get the part that you wanted or all that kind of stuff. But the college thing. And so that. That's a. So that's a benefit to the letting go is when you're able to see, like, wow, they did that. It's incredible.
- [15:27]
Yeah. I mean, and I think this is part of the journey of parenting. We talked about this last time. You have to let go little by little, because that's bittersweet. What an awesome thing that your kid is flying into the world and doing an amazing job. But it's also sad that it doesn't include you.
- [15:44]
Yeah.
- [15:45]
And so you have to, along the way, be preparing yourself for that that's coming.
- [15:51]
And I think that's a That's something else that I wanted to write about in this book is like, how do you do that? How do you prepare yourself? Like as they're taking their tiny steps away from you, then what are you doing that's meaningful to you? Because let's face it, you do have more time as your kids become teens. You know, you do definitely have some, some more time on your hands and there's an opportunity there. So whatever you are, your interests or your social life or your marriage or your work that you get, like you and I talked about this last time, like sometimes you want to work more. If you love your career but you're just too busy with the kids right now, you can maybe dive back in or more deeply into whatever your work is.
- [16:34]
Yeah. And it's important to know there's going to be a hole. So these are good things to fill it with. And you really want to think about that.
- [16:41]
Yeah.
- [16:43]
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- [21:04]
Pam Labley
The other thing is, okay, you talk about this in why Can't We Just Play? And also in this new book that is to come. You're hoping it is.
- [21:14]
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:15]
About parental peer pressures. This is starting to pop up a couple of different places. You know, we talk so much about the peer pressure for the kids. Social media is the biggest conformity engine ever created. And so that also is seeping into parenting as well. There's a lot of pressure into parenting. Like, this is, this is fun that I talked to this girl. She's not a girl, she's an adult. She's. I talked to this woman, she's pregnant, first baby. And she wanted to shoot off a little bit of fireworks for her. It's their first baby. Is it a boy girl? For the announcement gender reveal? Yeah, for the gender reveal. Yes. That's it. And I'm like, that didn't even exist. I'm like, I've got an eight year old. And that didn't even exist eight years ago. So this is new. And so she's doing this gender reveal and she told me this story of how she was just asking around, trying to get a little thing and she's got a big account. So the company was like, well, we'll do it for you and Pam. The biggest fireworks explosion I've ever seen. It's like ombre. It's like the baby's like it's a girl. So it's like the dark, the hot pink, pinks to light, pinks to white in this whole, I mean, it's like that's phenomenal photo. She was like, I had no idea I was going to be like that. So this is the world that we're living in as it relates to parenting too. Like, what if you just don't do any gender reveal? What if you don't even find out the gender? You know, that type of Thing. Yes, but part of, part of the peer pressure is enrolling. And in light of talking about how this really is a finite season of time, one of the statements you said was every kid was too busy working at their childhood to have time to play. So what do you want to say to the moms who are feeling the pressure to enroll in tutoring and French horn and all the things?
- [22:56]
Well, a couple of things, I think. One, God, so many things. So one thing is, and we talked about this before, what kind of family life do you want to have? Because as a mom and, you know, and the dad too, as parents, you get to decide how you would like the next 15 to 20 years of your life would be, do you want to spend it driving them around, enrolling, spending a ton of money in all these activities. And why is there a feeling that your child is so inadequate without this? What is the goal of that you're trying to reach? And I, I. There was just an article yesterday in the Wall Street Journal about this guy. It's called, like a guru, Harvard guru, whatever. And he, he charges phenomenal amounts of money and he's very successful. Parents who enroll their kids in this program, like, get my kid into an Ivy League school. It's a college coaching program, and there's lots of college coaching programs all over the country. But this guy has turned this into some literally, like a multi, multi million dollar business. But these people are, these parents are so obsessed with getting their children into the top schools because for some reason we've come to believe that that is the only marking of success or the most important, and that all else needs to fall by the wayside to make that happen. You know, I would say, okay, maybe that's right for some people, but the rest of us need to look at ourselves and say, is that, is that really me? Is that really what I believe? If my kid doesn't go to Harvard or Princeton, it's over for them. I mean, that's kind of the message, I think. So there's, there's that. And then the other thing I would say is there's a whole sort of like, movement or idea happening now about failure to launch. Kids in their 20s who are failing to launch in whatever way you define that they can't find their career. They are, you know, maybe struggling with a lot of health issues or mental health issues, et cetera. So, like, why do we have this record number of kids failing to launch? Is it that maybe they didn't have enough childhood? You know, I'm not a doctor or a social scientist or anything. But years ago, we went to a back to school night at preschool, which was like the most adorable thing ever. And they had a speaker there. And I don't remember anything about this speaker, but they talked about the practicalities of preschoolers and they were already addressing, like us preschool parents who might be like, well, are they reading is part of their day, the Alphabet, that kind of thing. And this school was not like that. They proudly called themselves like a cookies and milk preschool. And so the speaker said, your kid has to go through every phase, all the phases of play, what, whatever those are. Play and growing up in maturity. And if you force them past that phase, they're going to come back and complete it at another time. And that really stuck in my mind. Like for instance, you know, in play, we see how kids need to risk. We see how they need to test themselves. And they love that kind of thing, that, that risky play and freedom. If they're so overprotected that they never get that, when will they start risking? When will they then satisfy that growth need in their psyche? So anyway, that's my armchair psychology. But I do wonder, with all this pressure, are we then setting kids up to maybe have a little bit more growing up time in their 20s that they might need?
- [26:24]
And then are we setting them up for disappointment? Because you hear about all of these people that go get their college degree. I'm talking to this lady today named Hannah Maruyama, and she has this whole podcast called the Degree Free podcast, not against degrees, but like, there's a lot of different paths in life. And she got her degree and then she said she made half of what she was making waitressing with her degree job. Yeah, and that's a tricky thing. I had actually talked to someone way before I had kids. You know, you have these little touch points where something sticks with you. Way before I had kids, I was a teacher. And so one of my fellow colleagues was saying, look, when you push your kids and do things like this, college coaching and SAT prep and all of these things, he said, you end up getting your kid in a spot that they really shouldn't be in. If you can't get in on your own merit, if you're not, you know, quite sharp enough or whatever, you're going to get run over because you're not really quite the caliber, which, whatever. I don't know if that sounds mean.
- [27:24]
Or I think 100% true.
- [27:27]
If you get a 24 on the SAT or ACT, whatever one gets a 24 ACT, I guess go to the school that gets the 24. Don't do a ton of tutoring and try and get a 29, because then you're going to be there with kids. You're going to be out of your league a little bit. Yes. And it's going to be really hard.
- [27:44]
Yes. That's 1,000% true. And look at the record anxiety levels we see on college campuses. I really think that's a huge part of it is because some of these kids are getting into schools that they really are not equipped to attend. And then as they get there, it becomes clear and it's really hard. Do you really want to turn around and say, listen, this school is too hard for me. I need to come home. I need to transfer. Like after. After, you know, riding the Success bus for 15 years to try to get there, to say, I can't or I don't. I don't want to operate at this level. It's uncomfortable for me. I can do it, but I'm miserable, so let me find a place where I can thrive and be me.
- [28:28]
Yeah. No one is talking about this, but it is happening. I had no idea. I wrote about it in my book. I had no idea that there were college coaches like you're talking about and that it's such a huge business. The one I wrote about, it was like, there was all sorts of packages you could buy, Pam. There was like the platinum package, and it didn't even say how much it cost. Like, the other ones were so much money.
- [28:48]
Yeah.
- [28:48]
And then the platinum package, which was bas like, we will get you into the college of your choice.
- [28:53]
Yeah.
- [28:53]
It didn't even say it was so much money that they wouldn't even tell you. You had to, like, inquire. And I thought, this is not smart.
- [29:01]
No. And a few things about that. So, first of all, you know, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure you or I could never even afford the platinum package. So who are these people that can afford to pay the platinum package? And why do they feel they need to if they're already at a certain level of success as a family? Do they really need to? Like, are they trying to get to even another level? It's kind of crazy. Yeah. And secondly, just this whole.
- [29:28]
Thrive Market
It's.
- [29:29]
Pam Labley
It's. Well, a lot of businesses feed off fear, I guess, but it's just the idea that if you don't do this, you're just not going to get the best. You're just not going to.
- [29:37]
Yeah.
- [29:37]
It's not going to be Enough. Whatever you do won't be enough unless you have this. It's. It's the whole college application. I don't know where you are in it. Even for just quote unquote, average situations. It's very overwhelming and confusing. It's nothing like what you and I went to through when we applied for college.
- [29:54]
We're almost there. Pm so your book's not going to be out in time for me.
- [29:59]
Email me.
- [30:00]
I'm a cusp. I will. But also, I really like this Hannah. Her. Her degree free stuff I think is really good. She's got some workbooks for parents that I think are worth their weight in gold. I just think it's an important thought no one talks about. Like, is your kid going to be in a spot that they're innately not going to thrive because it's just not the surroundings that they should be in. And I think that's important to think about because it's coming from the parental peer pressure. And so we have to do what's best for our kids, not what is best for what everyone else says is best. Mm.
- [30:30]
Yeah. And the parental peer pressure I feel again, I feel terrible. I recently had to go buy a shower gift for a baby and I went to like, bye, bye baby at one of those places and I was like, oh, I'm going to get. I don't know what I was going to get. The rows of ointments and shampoos and lotions. I mean, when our kids were babies, there was like A and D. Ointment for diaper rash. Yeah, Desitin and Desitin. There were like two choices, right, Ginny? There's like two shelves worth now and it's all about the hypoallergenic or the, you know, gluten free or the kind like it was. So I was like frozen, thinking, like, if I were a mom, I'd be freaking out over which dude diaper rash stuff to buy. So the amount of choices and information and then all the stuff on Instagram, it just. I. I feel it's very hard. I'm sure it's very hard.
- [31:22]
Which fireworks will you buy?
- [31:24]
Yeah, which fireworks? Oh my gosh.
- [31:26]
Yeah, it's a lot. It is.
- [31:28]
It's a lot.
- [31:29]
I've talked about it a lot with my midwife and she says there's a big change. There's a big change in the last five to 10 years with the new moms. They are inundated with information. That's why books like yours are so good. They help keep us Grounded. One of the things you say in this book that's yet to come is I spent a lot of time, my non mothering time, writing instead of cleaning or organizing. So life felt pretty haphazard all the time. That's like a really amazing sentence because my life feels very haphazard all the time. Yes, all the time. And I think probably a lot of people are listening. Their lives feel haphazard. But you feel like it shouldn't. You feel like it should feel systematic and routine and why don't I have this meal plan figured out? You wrote, I would rather play with my kids than organize the kitchen. I would rather read to them than finish the dishes. And that's how we lived. I accepted that about myself even when I felt the stress of being behind and I forgot stuff. So it was haphazard. Looking back, do you regret that?
- [32:29]
No, I'm so grateful for that. I'm grateful for that because I was true to myself. You know, I know people that can't stand a mess, so, you know, they could. They couldn't do that. But no, I feel grateful that I read to them instead of doing the dishes. I feel grateful that, you know, 90% of the time I chose to do the fun or the important thing with them rather than have my house look clean or my paperwork done or any of that other stuff. Those things will get done. Guess what? There's plenty of time after they leave you in the high school play to go home and do your dishes. So. Yeah. And you can't always be that. I sound so perfect and relaxed. Oh, I was just so happy to be with my kids all the time. It's not like that. But just the idea that to constantly understand, listen, what's important to you today. Do that thing.
- [33:25]
Yeah.
- [33:25]
You know, whatever the important thing is to you. Because you don't get that. You don't know how many days you get. That's just a simple fact. And even when everything goes perfectly and your kids grow up healthy and go off to the. The wonderful college, it's finite.
- [33:37]
Right.
- [33:38]
So even in a perfect world, it's finite.
- [33:40]
Thrive Market
Yeah.
- [33:41]
Pam Labley
Yeah. You had talked about even like how on picture day you forgot, you know, and I just like. It's frowned upon, you know, that you don't show up in suit and tie and your hair is perfect and.
- [33:52]
Yeah.
- [33:52]
You forget. And then you wrote, though. But that's how he looked. That's how he looked. And part of this is learning to be true to yourself because that is a skill set that will help you once they're gone.
- [34:06]
Yes. And I think that this is part of what's hard about the conforming thing of motherhood is like, then we can't just all be the kind of moms we want. Like, what if we don't care about the perfect white kitchen with, I don't know, what, plants on the counter or whatever you see on Instagram? You know, a lot of the my favorite parts of motherhood would not have made it onto a highlight reel. You know, it's just. Or it would have to be heavily edited. So it's too bad that moms, and I hope maybe they can resist this. That feeling of, gosh, the way I want to do it isn't really the right way. The way I'm doing it is not like the cool way or the way that's going to get them into the right school or, you know, we all, our kids are all so different.
- [34:48]
Thrive Market
I don't like the dentist flat out. Routine cleanings are one thing, but anything beyond gets me a little worked up and on edge. And so I've always been pretty dialed in when it comes to oral health and taking it seriously. But I've also always only ever used a traditional manual toothbrush and never knew what I was missing out on until I tried Quip. The new Quip360 oscillating toothbrush literally revolves around you.
- [35:11]
Pam Labley
You.
- [35:12]
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- [36:23]
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- [36:45]
Alyssa Blask Campbell
When it comes to raising kids, there's so much to consider. Things like, what do we feed them? When do we feed them? How do they sleep? What does it look like to raise kind kids? How does their nervous system work? How do I keep myself kind? What are my triggers? There's so much that comes into play, and we are distilling all of that information for you at Voices of your Village podcast, where we bring experts in the field of early childhood and education and psychology and across the board so that you don't have to comb the Internet for information. You get to show up and hang out and have shame free judgment, free conversations and insights into what it looks like to raise kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent humans. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I have a master's degree in early childhood education. I'm a mom of two, and I am walking this journey right alongside you doing this work. Come hang out with me at Voices of your Village and we can dive into real conversations with actionable tips.
- [37:44]
Pam Labley
Ginny, you have five kids. I bet. They are each so different. I mean, I'm sure there's overlap.
- [37:49]
No, they're so different. They're so different. And how fun? How fun is that?
- [37:53]
And how fun? Yes.
- [37:56]
They all enhance each other's lives and my own and my husband. So, you know, there's that. I think that's part of it. The part of the excitement of them all being different is they all bring their own interest to the table. And then because of that, we all grow collectively and individually. They stretch us and we learn things. I mean, yesterday I've got one, our youngest was reading this and. And I didn't even teach her how to read. She reads so well. She learned on her own. She's reading this. Is it True? Or anyways, and she's just quizzing me on all of these things and I'm like, this is just a fun. Yeah, it's so fun.
- [38:29]
It's a. Like a path you wouldn't have walked down.
- [38:31]
Right.
- [38:32]
If it weren't for her interest. And I think that that's a really great lesson of motherhood, is that it's like that chapter I wrote out with. Yes. And something comes up, and you. You just, you know, you agree and you go forward, and that's how, like, new things come into your life that otherwise never would have. I mean, I have two boys. I was not, like, a tomboy or anything, and yet I ended up doing a lot of things and silly, goofy things with my two rowdy kids that I wouldn't have if I'd had girls. So that was a great learning opportunity for me. And I love being a boy mom, but it's not like anything I could have planned or even imagined.
- [39:11]
You wrote it stretches. You transformed into a different person with broadened viewpoints, new friends, and new interests. It felt easy, natural, because it was led by my kids. Led by my kids.
- [39:24]
Yeah.
- [39:25]
Yeah. We all get to grow in this, and that is a beautiful thing.
- [39:28]
Yes.
- [39:28]
You wrote an important part of raising myself to be independent. This is the big thing, that there's growth all the way through. There's growth for the child, but there also should be growth for you as the parent. Raising myself to be independent meant letting go of trying to be what I am not. Wow.
- [39:45]
Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, definitely. And then. But then that's a constant learning process of, like, oh, I thought I was this type of person, but maybe I'm not. Or I maybe was somebody that really wanted a clean kitchen, but now I've somebody that likes doing something better, which is reading to my kids, or.
- [40:04]
Yeah, I love that you talked about improv in this book. I read, and I talked to her, actually. She's 81. I read. I heard the podcast Improv Wisdom. Improv Wisdom, Yeah. What a book. Oh, my gosh. I'm just loving these books about improv. So you talk about this in this book that is yet to come, but parenting is improv. You don't get to choose. And I think that's, you know, I think it's fun. You just say, yes.
- [40:30]
Thrive Market
Yes.
- [40:30]
Pam Labley
And what comes next. Not saying yes to all the things that are burdensome, but accepting. Accepting the situation, the kids that you have. But I want to. As we sort of wrap up here, I wanted to grab this topic about friendships, because we actually have experienced this, and I've talked to a good friend of mine where we say friendships appear to last about five years for the most part, because seasons change, and that's something that I was not expecting. She said the same thing. I wasn't expecting that either. You know, I had these friends during the preschool years and then during the elementary and now we're in high school, everyone's parenting differently. But what if you don't have a sister? I don't have a sister.
- [41:09]
I know.
- [41:10]
What are you supposed to do?
- [41:11]
You know what, it was a huge blessing for me because I have a sister. Then we're close and our kids are the same age and we live in two different states. So there is no, you know, we're not like, we're, we give a good perspective to each other's lives. You know what I'm saying? Well, hopefully, I mean maybe, hopefully you have maybe a childhood or college friend that is going through the parenting journey with you. But it definitely is hard. We made two or three close friends that we still have through all the parenting years. However, a lot of times our kids were not that our kids weren't as close friends. They might have been close when they were, you know, little kids, but then they had other interests. So particularly I have boys who aren't sportsy. Well, all the boys do sports. So then, you know, at some point the non sportsy boys have to find new friends. So when that happened, and I don't know this is going to be a chapter in the book, I don't know if I included you, but this idea that like what happens when you have this like group and then all my friends were suddenly going to all the sports games and we weren't playing sports and I was like, oh, so I'm not really seeing those friends that I like that much anymore. And now I need to try to find some new mom friends and. You do. But yeah, that's an interesting thing. And I never thought about the five year period and also the idea that I write about which is that like once they get into high school, it's weird how parents who you used to be on the same page with everybody starts to make different decisions.
- [42:41]
Yeah.
- [42:42]
About like for dating. Dating. Maybe also academics, you know, some, some parents that I felt close to or you know, very like minded with did go this super college coaching academic route. They went full on in on that and okay, you know, what are you going to say? They do that. So there's. It is. It becomes a wider range of choices for parents and then. And that can feel a little lonely too, like, oh, all right. So all these people are making this choice and I don't really feel like that's the right choice. I hope I'm right.
- [43:15]
Yeah, it's shaky. It feels very shaky.
- [43:17]
Shaky. It's a good way to say it.
- [43:19]
Yeah. Because all of the things that you think Are your ideals. Other people don't share them. You wrote, it's easy to mention that your 2 year old never sleeps more than 6 hours. It's fun to trade ideas for how to get your 7 year old to try vegetables. And there's kids that listening. So I'm just going to say but if your teen is doing whatever, they're getting bullied. Whatever you don't want to tell anyone.
- [43:37]
Yes.
- [43:37]
And then you also wrote the other side is true too. If your teen is getting amazing math scores and the teachers are placing her in all honors classes, you can't tell anyone either because it's boasting. So if your teen is getting bullied, this is a big deal. We've experienced this. If your teen is getting bullied by a kid that everyone else seems to like, you're not going to make that public. If your teen has anxiety, you don't want to tell anyone. That would violate your teen's privacy. Yeah. You just wrote, you've got so many challenges to face with your team, but you've lost your team. No one shares. And then you wrote it gets worse.
- [44:16]
Oh my gosh.
- [44:18]
But these are good things to know that they're coming.
- [44:20]
Yes, yes.
- [44:21]
So that you can be a little prepared for it. I mean maybe you have a counselor.
- [44:25]
Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully you have one or two friends that will stick, you know, that you can really share with openly and be a confidant throughout. Hopefully. I mean I did have, I did have one or two of those and it was great. It really helps. But the thing I point out in there is I did miss the team. I missed that. Sort of like there's a bunch of moms standing around and everybody's ping ponging ideas about what we should do on the long weekend or who's what. Is anybody doing fun on the half day? You know, because then you just get all these different ideas and, or, or like I said, stuff that goes on in town, you know, who's whose house is getting sold for this and you know, it's just the whole community that tends to recede in the teen years because everybody's busy and everybody's protecting their kids privacy.
- [45:16]
Yeah. Pam, you've just always done such a wonderful job of forcing thought. Really. And in an entertaining way, thought of how do I really want this to be? What do I really want this to look like? And thought about what's to come. He wrote, it all seemed like a blur. It went so fast. Did I teach him everything he needed to know? Did I invest enough Love and energy and wisdom in him. Did I do everything I should have and did I cherish the time as I should have? And I just think it helps us to remember. It helps us to remember that at some point, the professor might look at us and say, well, here's how the school handles drinking and partying. They handle it with everything you taught him up until now. The values that you gave him and the things that you taught him. That's how he'll handle it. And we, all of us, at some point will be in those moments where there is a stepping away. And so you really help us to think. You help us to think about what's to come and how to prepare ourselves and how to prepare our kids and.
- [46:16]
Hopefully how to enjoy it.
- [46:18]
Yeah.
- [46:18]
I have to say, a couple of months, those days ago, my oldest son sent me flowers, which was so sweet. That was like, the first time you ever did that. And on the card, he was like, thank you. Different things. Thank you, Mom. But the thing that really stuck out to me was what I taught him. And he said, enjoying the ride.
- [46:36]
I love that.
- [46:37]
That meant so much to me because life is hard, but it's also super fun. And if we're not enjoying it, what is the point? So that was one thing I think both my husband and I really wanted to teach our kids is like. Because our parents were like that, too. They enjoyed the ride. So enjoy the ride.
- [46:56]
Thrive Market
Yeah.
- [46:57]
Pam Labley
So I hope, like, when this book ever gets finished and published, that that will be a major theme, which is, like, listen, no matter what's going on, enjoy the ride.
- [47:05]
Pam, I adore talking with you. I know people will love this one. And if they haven't listened to it yet, it was one of our most popular episodes last year. You got to go back and listen to it. I'll make sure I put the link in the show notes. And I am hoping this book makes it into the world, because like I said, I just read. I'm like, I thought, well, maybe it's close to getting printed. And I'm like, CR in my room reading it, so crying when I read it on here. I just really appreciate the way that you weave the words together and the stories that you tell. They have helped me to be a better mother.
- [47:36]
Oh, thank you so much. And I definitely, if I have anything to do with it, this book will get published.
- [47:41]
So thank you so much for being here.
- [47:43]
Thank you. It's great to see you.