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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 410: We Crave Realness - Rachel Hollis on Hardships, Hope, and Showing Up as You
01:02:06
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- [00:01]
Jenny Yurich
Happy New Year, friends. Whether you are a longtime listener or joining us for the very first time, I am so glad you're here. As we kick off this fresh chapter, it is the perfect time to set some intentions for a slower, more connected life outside. Did you know that we have over 400 episodes for you to dive into? Probably, since the numbers are in the titles. But maybe you didn't know that some of these episodes have even hit the top parenting podcast episodes in the entire United States. If you're new, I typically release episodes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, but of course today is a Tuesday, so sometimes I mess that up and sometimes there's a few more because there are so many incredible conversations to share. Before we jump into today's inspiring episode with none other than Rachel Hollis, I want to let you know about a couple of exciting resources. If you are tracking your outdoor time this year, don't forget to grab our free tracker sheets. They're a fun and simple way to stay motivated@1000hours outside.com trackers. And if you're looking for some extra inspiration, my book until the Streetlights Come on is available now. It's packed with encouragement and practical ideas to help you and your family reconnect with the natural world. Let's start this year strong by diving into today's episode with the amazing Rachel Hollis. And without further ado, here is Rachel.
- [01:16]
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- [01:44]
Jenny Yurich
Edu. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Yurich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And you're not going to believe who's here. It's Rachel Hollis. Welcome. Hi.
- [01:57]
Rachel Hollis
How are you?
- [01:58]
Jenny Yurich
I mean, I was on the phone with a friend right up until the end and I was like, I gotta go. I'm hopping on a podcast with Rachel Hollis. She goes, oh, I'm listening to her book right now. Oh cool. Wait just like 90 seconds ago. So such a cool thing. Thanks for being here. You. You have a podcast that's got over 200 million downloads. These books, girl, wash your Face. I think everybody knows about that one. And just so many books that you've written that for me, just, like, give me that little, like, oomph, you know, like, you gotta go for it. And in a way, that's funny, but in a way also that's bold. And I think we need to read those things. Like, I like to read things that are, like, a little convicting and a little, like, maybe, maybe, maybe I should be making some changes here. So I have just read your newest book, which is called what if youf Are the answer and 26 other questions that Just Might Change youe Life. And I read didn't see that Coming. Putting life back together when your world falls apart. Oh, wow. And I've got, like, notes upon notes upon notes here, so I love to kick off with this Rachel you talk about. And I got it out of both books, really, that you have just learned so many different life lessons. And you talk about sort of the difference between. You're like, I want to have wisdom. And you share it through all of these stories that you've gone through that have been so, so difficult. You had a business, like, you were, like, doing wedding planning and you were doing food blogging. When did it switch to this point where you're like, I want to share the wisdom from my really hard experiences with the world.
- [03:27]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah. I don't know if your journey is like this too, Jenny, but it was sort of accidental. I never, ever meant to be doing this for a job. Like you said, I was an event planner. I planned weddings. And I. I started in 2008 blogging about my events. It was just a popular time to start a blog. And I don't think I really knew what it was or did it very well. I just thought, well, I can write about the wedding I planned this weekend. And slowly but surely, I got better at blogging. And I was still only blogging about pretty things. So it was how to lay a tablescape or decorate for the holidays. And then it became food recipes and maybe a little bit about my kids or things that I was doing that was helping me as a parent. And a really specific. Remember the first time I wrote about something that wasn't? And I'm using air quotes where people can't see me, but that wasn't pretty. And that was when I got Bell's palsy. I've had Bell's palsy three times. It's facial paralysis. It only happens to one side of your face. So literally, the left side of my face, like, sits, you know, a Couple inches lower than the right side. There's no movement. Can't feel anything. It's a hole. You gotta wear an eye patch. It's very sexy. And I really wanted to talk about it because I had gotten it more than once, and it was very painful, and it was. I didn't want to leave home. It was whatever. And I remember at the time, I had a picture of myself with Bell's palsy. And I remember telling my partner at the time and telling some publicists that I worked with, like, oh, I'm going to write about this on the blog. And they were like, you cannot put a picture of yourself like that on the Internet. The Internet is forever. You cannot put, essentially, an unattractive photo of yourself on the Internet. And I felt so strongly like, I don't know anyone who ever had this, but I've had it. And I just really wanted to tell that story, and I put it out there, and I cannot tell you. And all the things I've done. I still have women come up to me at the airport and say, hey, remember years ago when you wrote about Bell's palsy? I had that, too. And I'd never seen a picture of someone else with it, and I never saw anyone talk about it. And thank you so much for sharing that story. And it was the first time that I realized that women really craved this. And I'm sure men, too, but women, especially in my community, we crave realness, and we don't want sort of surface level. And so I began to write about that more and more and eventually found myself writing about it in books. And again, I never thought that was gonna become as popular as it was. And I had a book that exploded. And then, you know, here we are all these years later, I accidentally fell into writing about life and hoping it would be.
- [06:11]
Jenny Yurich
So you write, girl, wash your face. And one of the things that I'm always really interested in is when people sort of move into a different strata of life. So you're a mom, like, you're doing wedding planning, and all of a sudden. And you write about this in your book. Like, all of a sudden you're getting recognized everywhere you write this book, it blows up. You're getting recognized. People are coming up to you everywhere. They're coming to find you. They want to share their stories with you. That's a huge change. And you talk about how you're like, I didn't even really know what to do with that. I don't know how to respond. This is an honor. But Also, this is very new. I don't really understand how people learn how to move into that next strata. Like, how did you do that? It's a major change, a massive change. It happens overnight. Basically, this book blows up. How did you learn how to handle that level of success?
- [07:00]
Rachel Hollis
I, to be honest, don't know if I. I even do still. And in talking and meeting other people who are more successful than I am or have bigger careers or bigger platforms, I have yet to meet anybody who felt really comfortable with the success because it is. It is a lot of pressure. And it is like, I was. I was on your Instagram before because I wanted to get catch a vibe. I want to make sure I was wearing the right top for our conversation. So I went on your Instagram to see, and I was. You know, some of your videos on there have millions and millions of views, and I think that's a good example that other people can. Maybe not everybody gets millions of views on a video, but I think that a lot of people have experience with. You put something out in the world, and maybe you don't expect it to do what it does. And there are awesome parts of that and there are scary parts of that. And I don't know if anyone else feels like this, but I feel like, oh, gosh, like, I want to do this the right way. But there's no sort of book. There's no, like, how to manual on how to manage these situations. So I tried a bunch of different things. And what I write about, I think you're referencing, and didn't see that coming was I went through a period of time where I almost felt agoraphobic. I felt afraid to leave my house because I was so scared of what would happen if someone came up to me. And just as a frame of reference, women would come up to me and immediately start pouring out. The worst thing that happened to them. I think that they really wanted someone to. To talk to about the hard thing. And I'd be at the grocery store with my baby, and they'd be like. They'd tell me something horrible. Just blurt it out. And I was like, oh, God, how do I hold space and hold a toddler at the same time? And, you know, just. It felt like so much. So I think I got pretty scared for a while. And then at some point, I don't even know what it was. I just made peace with the fact that I'm gonna imagine that I live in this small town, and this small town just happens to be the world. And anywhere I go in my small town, I might run into someone who's like a friend of my cousin twice removed. And so they're going to chat with me about life. And that's not going to feel so scary because it's just someone in my community. My community is just bigger.
- [09:13]
Jenny Yurich
Like, how did you think of that?
- [09:15]
Rachel Hollis
I don't.
- [09:15]
Jenny Yurich
That's what I'm so intrigued by.
- [09:17]
Rachel Hollis
I just had to get to a place where I was either going to be too afraid to leave home or I was going to accept the fact that at any moment someone might come up and talk to me. And that sounds very weird, but I get scared. I don't think I've ever said that publicly. It scares me when someone comes up because often people are excited and they yell and I have some PTSD with loud noises. So when someone screams, like at an air like Rachel because they're excited, it genuinely, like, it triggers something in me. So I just, instead of thinking it's not going to happen, I just decided it would always happen. And it doesn't always happen. But by going into every public situation thinking, hey, you might run into a friend who yells your name, it prepared me for it. And then I just got used to it. I don't know. I wish I had the book that told me how, but that is the honest truth is I just told myself it was going to happen every time. Told myself that my attitude was always going to be one that is positive because I've run into people I admire before and had them be rude to me, and it's has crushed my spirit. So I have vowed that it will never happen. And I strive to always be like, oh, hey, how are you? Even if inside I'm like, oh, I have to pee and I'm running late for this fight and, you know, but I'm just going to be there and be happy about it.
- [10:42]
Jenny Yurich
You talk so much about growth mindset. My core value in life is growth. Yep, that's what you write. And so I love that, like, you have grown. And. Well, this is an interesting thing because another thing that changes, I think, when your success skyrockets is like, how do you maintain friendships?
- [10:57]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah, I don't. I. I want to be truthful with you because I. That is a big part of who I am is. I don't know that that has always been the easiest thing. I really think in life, whether it's romantic relationships or friendships or people you work with, that if everyone's not growing and evolving in the same direction, eventually you will grow apart And I think that's really human. So to have a career that has evolved as much as mine has over the last decade. I've had people who've come in for seasons and have been really close to, and then they sort of go in a different direction. And there's nothing negative about that. I think it just is what life is. It's like going to college with people and then maybe one of you goes on a career trajectory and one of you decides that you're gonna a stay at home parent. And you still love each other very much, but when you get together for dinner, maybe every time there's a little bit less to talk about just because you're evolving in different ways. When I was younger, I tried to hold on to those longer than I should have. And as I've gotten older, I've sort of accepted that life looks like an ebb and a flow and I have stopped trying to grasp so tightly. So the truth is, I don't know yet what it looks like to have it, because I think like, there are friends, Truthfully, like my best friends growing up, we get together once a year and we have dinner, but we're not as close as we once were. And that's just the truth of my life.
- [12:30]
Jenny Yurich
That's good. I mean, I think that's everything that you write about. Like you relate it to a story and I. That helps you to remember it. And that's true. It's like you go to college, even high school, you've got all these friends, and then what happens? It ends. And everyone goes these different paths and you still love each other. What about when people turned on you? Because I, I remember this. When your books came out, I think I was in a spot where I was reading too much with little kids. So, I mean, I remember about the books comes out, it's huge. Girl, wash your face. And then there was the turn, right? Always you wrote about how you're like, look, I don't read the comments anymore. But still, like, sometimes things come out of the blue. And you wrote about how sometimes people will be like, I want a refund because I went to this conference of yours six years ago and you know, now hear this.
- [13:16]
Rachel Hollis
Yes.
- [13:17]
Jenny Yurich
Refund my money.
- [13:18]
Rachel Hollis
Yes. Yeah.
- [13:19]
Jenny Yurich
How did you not quit?
- [13:21]
Rachel Hollis
Oh, it's so funny you say that because today's podcast is the five reasons people quit. I honestly have a family that's counting on me. Honestly, if I didn't have kids, I think I probably would have quit so many times. That's just the absolute truth. Because it is very difficult to do this kind of work, to put yourself out there to publicly talk about ideas. I think, especially as a woman, it's not always received super well. But that is the why. And I think we all have our version of why. Why do you get out of bed? Why do you keep going when it's hard? Why do you record another podcast, do another thing, is because this is my job. And, you know, I keep joking that someday I'll run out of ideas for nonfiction books and get to write about vampires and fairies falling in love with each other or something. But until then, I keep standing up and going again. And I think I'm really passionate about the idea that all of us have a story that can be helpful to somebody else. All of us. Like, I can only ever speak from my perspective and talk about my life experience and what it looks like to grow up where I did and how I approach life. And every single person listening to this has their version of that that could help someone else. So, I don't know, you start by like, well, maybe this idea is something, and then it keeps growing. And I don't know. How do you not quit? Because I believe in the things that I'm saying. I believe that it's helpful. I have had enough feedback from people over the years to know that even if it's just a small group of people, they're helped by the words that I write down. And so I keep trying. And on the hard days, I look at my babies and I'm like, well, I have to pay for college. So we are just going to keep doing what we're doing.
- [15:15]
Jenny Yurich
Aw, what a mom you are. What a mom that you're going to stand, despite the opposition, for the people that you're helping and for your children. I always think it's kind of selfish, honestly. I'm like, when people are like, you shouldn't say that or whatever, you know, and you're like, but what about the people that this really helped?
- [15:33]
Rachel Hollis
Exactly.
- [15:33]
Jenny Yurich
What about all the messages I got? Yeah, what about those people? Why don't you care about those people? Yeah, like, I understand you don't like it.
- [15:39]
Rachel Hollis
Exactly.
- [15:40]
Jenny Yurich
Okay, fine.
- [15:41]
Rachel Hollis
Yes.
- [15:41]
Jenny Yurich
But, you know, like, do you know this is like, a bestseller, Right? It's helped a lot of people.
- [15:46]
Rachel Hollis
Well, it's also, I think, for anybody who creates, and I mean, in any medium, especially if you're putting it out on the Internet, it's really important to remember who it's for we start to create, to not piss off the people. It was never for anyway, it's so counterintuitive. Like, I'm sure those people who don't like the thing, there's someone else writing for them or speaking for them that they love. So I'll let them find their person. And I'm just going to keep writing for the women who are helped by what I'm saying and just hope that there's some resonance in that. But it's so easy to get distracted by the people who don't like it because they're also the loudest. Right. They're the ones. You know, it's like human nature, I think, is to hear all the people that are like, your hair is ugly and you look like this and I hate that outfit, and. And not hear the people like, oh, gosh, thank you. Thank you for saying that thing or giving me an idea. So I just really keep trying to create for the ones it's for.
- [16:47]
Jenny Yurich
You talk about this. So that's actually a really important thing. It's in what if you are the answer? You talk about. Well, you're talking about when the Internet ignores you. That that's like one type of peer pressure. Almost like you put this thing out. Nobody likes it. No. Nobody likes my cat or nobody. So I'm not going to post about that anymore. Yes, we're changing based off of the algorithm, whatever the algorithm does.
- [17:07]
Rachel Hollis
Yes.
- [17:07]
Jenny Yurich
And also when the Internet is enraged because you died, there's a great story about the room temperature egg.
- [17:15]
Rachel Hollis
Oh, God. And uses all the hashtag. Never forget. I will never forget this.
- [17:22]
Jenny Yurich
Tell us about the room temperature egg.
- [17:24]
Rachel Hollis
So I used to be a food blogger. This is so long ago, I can't even remember the year. But it was when Facebook was really popular and all of us were building, you know, Facebook groups. And I, you know, diligently every day went onto my Facebook group and talked about food and home and all sorts of ideas. And one day I shared the. That the way that I got the best chocolate chip cookie after testing a bunch of different options was to let my eggs come to room temperature before I baked them into the cookie dough. And this is such common knowledge now, it's hilarious. But back then, you didn't have as many people talking about that. And the Internet exploded. Like, people went crazy. And the comment section was crazy. It was like, you're gonna give people salmonella and this is dangerous information and you're spreading. I laugh at it because I think how absolutely insane that I was so scared of upsetting the Internet and I removed the post, I pulled it down Cause I thought, oh, I have really done something wrong by telling people to use room temperature eggs. I cannot tell you how often I do this in so many recipes till today. I have checked it many times. I checked it before writing this book. Cause I thought, well, what if. Actually, no, if you check with any bake baker, it's sound advice. But I went into a tailspin for like four days that I had done something so wrong and all I was talking about was baking. Like, there's so many things that actually would be worth going to battle with the Internet for. Baking is not one of them. I, I referenced this incredible woman I follow on Instagram who makes sourdough. It's like Enzo. Sourdough. Sourdough, Enzo. If you guys look it up, it, she has a bakery billion followers and just beautiful videos and all it is is her baking bread, the prettiest bread you've ever seen in your life. And the comment section of her sourdough posts are insane. People are so mean. And she's not doing anything, she's not asking for anything, she's not telling you to buy anything. She's literally just baking bread. So it's really important, I think, for perspective to just remember like everything that you're going to put out, if you're putting yourself out there is going to be upsetting to someone for one reason or another. And if you again are creating to not upset the people it was never for anyway, that's how you get into just like a disingenuous way to do your craft. Create a podcast, write a book, take your photos. Much better to create for yourself or to create for a very specific audience. And let go of anybody who gets frustrated by room temperature eggs.
- [20:11]
Jenny Yurich
This is such good advice for now. And I even think, you know, if people have older kids like that are hitting the social media type age you write about like, the truth is, this is so good, Rachel. The truth is the most beautiful, most well received, most widely liked picture you've ever posted is never going to feel as good as the time you laughed with your best friend until your sides hurt. Yeah, it's a good reminder.
- [20:35]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah, it's a really good reminder.
- [20:39]
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- [25:03]
Rachel Hollis
I don't know if you've seen this. How old are your kids? Jenny?
- [25:07]
Jenny Yurich
Sixteen.
- [25:07]
Rachel Hollis
Sixteen is the oldest. Yeah, so they're getting into those ages where this perception of like the public and the public is so much bigger than it used to be. Meaning I went to high school and I wasn't very popular and a pretty small circle of people probably knew I existed. Even if I had been popular, let's say like that popularity might have only spread to a certain segment of the high school, but now you could be a teenager and your entire high school could know you exist because you have social media, or maybe it's bigger, right? Maybe you're like a public account and everybody can access it. And it just changes the way anything is received. It changes the way they put things out there. It changes the way they're thinking about how they're posing in a photo. Like, it's just augmenting how our kids see themselves because they're trying to please the world. And we were never meant to try and please such a wide group of people. So I think it's a really important thing to remember for those of us who do create and put it out as adults. What does this look like when it trickles down? Like, what does this look like for them? And how are they showing up in this way that is not going to honestly damage them forever? Because I worry about this all the time. That, like, oh, how are you consuming? And what do you think it's supposed to be? And what are the other kids doing? It's just. They just have access to so much information that we never had access to. And it really freaks me out. Like, I worry about this a lot. This is a very weird thing to worry about. But our kids are never gonna get lost. They're never gonna get lost. Like, the first time I went to Europe, I didn't have a phone. I had a paper map and I had a translation book. And I walked around Paris and tried my very best to speak awful French and got lost and then ended up in places I never would have been and had experience in retrospect that were, like, terrifying but also awesome. And our kids are never going to have that. They have so much information available at all. If they wonder something. You know, we had an encyclopedia. It was like, big. We had a collection of encyclopedias. And you go look like P. And like, you'd hope that it would be in there under P. Right? The kids will just be like, oh, what's. Who was that guy? Or where do I. So there's just. There's a ton of information now that is awesome and also is a bit scary to me because I think we didn't grow up in that world. And so I. I don't always know how to parent properly because my. The way of wanting to parent is like, let's go live off the grid. And you just can't have any technology at all.
- [27:46]
Jenny Yurich
One of the things you said that I thought was so powerful was that, you know, when things have gotten hard, you have this. These experiences, these firsthand experiences that you've been able to navigate back to. And I Thought that was such powerful wording. And if you don't have those to begin with, you don't know what to navigate back to. And you talked a lot about your imagination. So this is in the newer book where you're talking about daydreaming and the types of things that happen when you don't have access to a screen all the time. So in if what if you are the answer, you say, what contributed most to my success? Which is a question I'm sure people ask you all the time, right? They're like, well, how are you so successful? You know, you don't come from this. You don't have the background of this. You actually have a very broken background. So, you know, how did this happen? And you know, people are not ever going to guess that you say, it's my imagination. So that's another thing that can be missing with all of the screens. But why do you attribute your success to your imagination, to your daydreaming?
- [28:39]
Rachel Hollis
Because I can always see a better future than the present I'm living today. And that's something I developed that was a coping mechanism as a little girl. Being inside of an environment that was sometimes scary is I would take myself out of the place I was in with my imagination. I would imagine a different life. I would imagine being in a home where people weren't yelling. I would imagine just something else. And that always stuck with me. I'm always daydreaming. I'm always imagining I'm sort of head in the clouds a bit. So for me, if I'm trying to figure out, okay, how do I do this next thing? Or how do I figure this out in my business? Or what's a fun question I can ask Jenny? Like, anything. I'm here and I'm sort of envisioning that, and that becomes the trail that I can walk down. And I think I do this especially with my little kids. I think with. So I have four kids, and they are about to be 18, 16, 12, and seven and a half. And with my older two, you know, I just didn't know what I was doing. I had no idea. They're like the test. The crash test dummies. And they're doing great. Thank God I didn't mess them up too badly. But I definitely. I wasn't as hardcore about. And I'm not just saying this because we're on your podcast, but I wasn't as hardcore about, you got to go outside and play. You got to be in your room. You're bored. Great. I love that you're bored. Because if you're bored, then something cool is going to come out of that. I wasn't as hardcore with the older boys around that because I was young and I was really struggling as a new mom. And it was easier. It was so much easier to be like, I'm gonna put on Disney Junior and you guys are gonna sit here and then we're calm. And, you know, it's just. That's the honest to God truth. And with the little ones, I'm so much more, I think, because I'm calmer and I'm not as scared of getting it wrong. I'm like, yeah, go be bored. Yeah, that's what we're gonna do. Or I've read so much in the last year about the importance of kids getting to do things by themselves. Because when we grew up, we got to. I walked to school every day from the time I was 7 years old by myself. I walked to. I mean, I lived in a smaller town, so it was easy to do that. But I had so much time not with adults playing at the park or go, you know, riding my bike with my friends. And my kids don't have that at all. And I've read a ton over the last year about how important it is for them to experience things. So, like, I started letting the 12 year old and the seven and a half year old, like, okay, just walk around the block, you know, And I. He has. The 12 year old has a dumb phone which is literally just so he could text us or so I can track his. And I just like obsessively watched their little avatars walk around the block. But doing things like that to allow them to have more moments that get outside of where they're at, which is not something I did with the older boys, but I want them to have a chance at least at developing the kind of imagination that I have, because that has been so crucial for me.
- [31:50]
Jenny Yurich
And isn't it wonderful because as you're allowing them, you're also allowing yourself. Yeah, you're allowing yourself to let go a little bit of. You talk about control or talk about wanting to know where they all are all the time and protecting and all of those types of things. And so it lets you. It lets you grow a little bit at the same time as they are growing. So. But I think that's cool. Yeah, I think that's cool that you're learning about that. Yeah. And talking about that. All right. You talk a lot about hardships. I mean, you've had a really A long, long slew of hardships. And I think that a lot of people who are listening say, look, I. I have not had Rachel, like, you know, and I read your story. I'm like, gosh, I have not had hardly any of these types of things. And you talk about you're so hopeful with it and optimistic in that, you know, you can take these hardships and you can turn them into something beautiful. This is starting real young you come from. It's a really interesting story. I'm actually embarrassed to say that I haven't read the other books, and I'm going to read them. I'm coming in late.
- [32:49]
Rachel Hollis
I actually think that it'd be interesting to know the perspective because I think I've changed so much as a person and a writer from Girl Wash youh Face to this newest book. So it'd be really. I'll be interested to hear your perspective of that because it's just such a different worldview. And as much as I had written Girl Wash youh Face, you know, coming out the other side of a lot of trauma in my childhood, I just had a completely different perspective of the world. And that's probably most people. Like, we all sort of think one thing until life kicks our butt, and then it changes the way that we see it. So, um, yeah, I'll be interested to hear what you think of those.
- [33:28]
Jenny Yurich
And I think there's a. There's gonna be a lot of people like that Rachel. Right. Like that come in. Not everyone comes in at the start. Some people come in in the middle. And some people come in, you know, at book 11, and then they work backwards. Because this is great writing. Like, there's really funny stories, and you do a wonderful job of, like, connecting stories with truth. And so that makes it easier to remember. And so I'm excited. I'm excited. And like I said, I was talking to the friend right before I came on. She's, like, listening to Girl Wash her face right now. So isn't that a wild thing? I think it's a wild thing when you put something out in the world and then however long later, you don't know when people are going to connect with it. But in. Didn't see that coming. And this is the thing about hardships, is that most of the time you don't see them coming. You talk about how your brother took his life, and you're 14 years old. You're a freshman in high school. You're home alone. You know, you're home. You're the one who finds Him. You're the one that calls 91 1. And you wrote this. You wrote, when my big brother took his life, it destroyed our family. Not that we were much of a family to begin with, if I'm being truthful. Which is surprising because you say you're a preacher's daughter, a preacher's granddaughter. So there's like that thread of. Anyway, we got kicked out of church this year, so I think this is an important thing to talk about, you know.
- [34:38]
Rachel Hollis
Wait, you got kicked out of church?
- [34:40]
Jenny Yurich
We did get kicked out of church, yes.
- [34:42]
Rachel Hollis
For what? I mean, we could talk about that.
- [34:45]
Jenny Yurich
I know it's a story. I'm gonna share it. I think it's my story to share. I actually am brave from your book because we went in because there was issues with the youth pastor, and just this past weekend, he had to resign due to misconduct with a minor. So turns out that we were right all along.
- [35:05]
Rachel Hollis
Oh, that's so painful though.
- [35:06]
Jenny Yurich
I'm really in with that. Like, what's going on with our world and our kids and our church and, you know, so here you are. I'm glad you're talking about it. You know, you come from this family and you say, but there was tenuous threads that held us together. They were burned to ashes. When Ryan died, I was 14 years old. 14 years old. I found him and my parents never parented me again. I've had more conversations with my 11 year old about fortnight than either of my parents have had with me about anything I saw that day or the grief I felt or how scared I was in the 23 years since. And I just wonder, like, how does it happen? How does it happen when someone has the word of God? How does it happen when someone has children and they should very much obviously care about them.
- [35:51]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [35:51]
Jenny Yurich
And then you ended up like moving out when you're 17. You talked about how the Christmases got worse. I thought that was like a really interesting, like, fascinating thing to think about. Like as a 14 year old, you're like, you know what? I can have grace for this first Christmas knowing that we're in turmoil. But like by Christmas three, shouldn't we be better spot by?
- [36:10]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah. Well, so by the time Ryan died, so When I was 14, my dad had left the ministry. Oh, gosh, at least a. Maybe a decade before. And there was just so much, my God, our family, like so much trauma that had happened. Our family, my parents had split up and gotten back together over and over again. So that by the time, I mean, this is what I said. In the book that by the time he died, it was the last thing. There was no coming back. It was already such a mess, and that was. It just decimated what was left. And they both. Both my parents managed that in different ways. I was the youngest, and the two older girls were grown. And so I can't speak for them because obviously that's their story to tell, but they just. They couldn't. They couldn't come back. My perspective of that situation is they both kind of left. They left any association with being parents or being part of a family anymore. And like you said, every year it sort of got worse to the point that I finally just remove myself, started making my own traditions and doing my own thing. And, I mean, my house has been decorated for Christmas since the beginning of November. You know, people tease me, like, I'll put one of my favorite things to talk about on social media is decorating for holidays. It truly is, like, so special to me. And it's because I didn't have that. Because, you know, it's like. It's like everything to make it. And I'm not the, like, crazy, like, oh, 10 million presents. And it's not that. It's. I always want our home to feel like home. I want it to feel like a nest. I want you to come in the door and, like, I want it to smell good, and I want it to be cozy, and I want the kids to just always have this soft place to land because I didn't. You know, coming into your home is something that I lost when I was. When I moved away at 17, which was very necessary for many reasons. But when I moved away, that was the last time I really had a home. And I don't even think it had been a home for a few years. But I remember my aunt and uncle, who I was very close to, they were second parents for most of my childhood, gave me a key to their house. I was moving away to la, and they gave me a key and they said, we don't know if you'll ever use this, but we want you to know that you have a key to a door that you can unlock to a home you are all always welcome in. And I carried that key on my key ring for years. I didn't often get to go back home and use it, but just that the importance of having that was so crucial for me. So, yeah, it's really important for me to create that for my kids. But, yeah, it was. By the time he died, it was sort of. There was no coming back from where we were.
- [39:11]
Jenny Yurich
I got emotional when you said that. You talked about, like, I wanted to be a nest and I wanted to smell this certain way. And I'm like, that those were your daydreams.
- [39:18]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah, absolutely.
- [39:19]
Jenny Yurich
That's your imagination of, like, what could it be? What could it be?
- [39:23]
Rachel Hollis
Yes.
- [39:23]
Jenny Yurich
And then you did. You did it.
- [39:24]
Rachel Hollis
You're so right.
- [39:25]
Jenny Yurich
You do it. It's been up since November.
- [39:27]
Rachel Hollis
You're so right. And honestly, if you come to my house, like, it always smells good. It's always clean. It's always. It's like those things that I didn't have. Or more specifically, I can think. My mom really struggled with depression for most of my childhood. That's a really very strong memory in my childhood. And when she was feeling good, the house was clean, she would light a candle, so it smelled really nice. And I can recognize that I associate those things with, like, everything's okay right now. And I want my house to always feel like everything's okay right now. We go through hard times as a family. We. You know, I've got four kids, so at any given day, I've never had all four of them thriving at the same time. At any given moment, someone's going, you know, failed a math test. And we're working on this thing. But at the very least, like, out us as a family, we're good. And our home is a representation of that. To me. It's also a really. It's something I can control. I can't control if they get into an argument with their friend at school today and it hurts their feelings or their crush doesn't like them back. I can't control that. But, man, I can control that. You walk in this house and, like, chilies in the crock pot, and it smells really nice.
- [40:45]
Jenny Yurich
I love that.
- [40:46]
Rachel Hollis
I love that.
- [40:47]
Jenny Yurich
And what you say in this book. And I was like, this is. I've never heard anybody really talk about this too much, Rachel, like you wrote. And I think this is probably coming from those hardships in your own experiences. But you talk very directly in saying kids are not supposed to carry our burdens. Like you wrote, your kids are not old enough to carry your pain for you, but I promise they will try. Your kids are never old enough to watch you have a breakdown. Your kids are never, ever old enough for you, the parent, to process your pain, grief, fear and anxieties with them. Never. It's not your child's job to hold space for you to fall apart. Call your therapist, call your priest, your rabbi, call your best friend. But don't you dare ask your kids to carry you through a hard season. It is your job to be strong for them, even if you have to fake it. That's what you signed up for. Yeah, I'm glad you wrote that.
- [41:34]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah. I was even hearing you read it, I'm like, oh, that's going to rub people the wrong way. But it's coming from the lens of a kid who felt like I was asked always to carry way more than I should have been and had to hold things for my parents and process things for my parents. And not just me, my sisters as well, for sure. Just like, you know, I have a lot of grace for my parents. They did, I think, the best they could with the tools that they had. It's just that the tools that they had weren't great. And I can't go back and change my childhood, but I absolutely bring that into where I'm living with my kids today and like, how I can be the kind of parent that I wish that I had. I was literally just in the kitchen scarfing down food before I came out here to talk to you. And I was talking to my fiance. I have to go get an MRI done because I have cysts in my breasts. I've had them before. They came back again. They're benign, but they've been really painful. And so we just want to check, make sure everything's good. But I had my back to the kitchen door and we were talking about like, oh, when the MRI is done. And my 16 year old's home from school early because it's almost Christmas break and I didn't know. And he walked in behind me, he was like, what are you doing? And I was like, oh, I have to, I have to get an mri because I hadn't told him that I got ultrasounds and I just don't want them to worry and I know that they will. So this is been going on for me for a couple of months, but he didn't know. And he was like, what are you doing? And I, oh, you know, I have. I'm going to go get this thing done. And here's exactly what it is. And they're totally benign. I've already had ultrasounds done. Everything's fine. I'm working with a doctor, but I'm just, you know, triple checking. We want to make sure everything's good. And even in that moment, I'm still like. He was like, well, mom, do they hurt? And yeah, Jenny, they hurt really bad. Sometimes they hurt really bad. I'm like, oh, no, buddy. Like, it's fine. Like, it's a thing sometimes. Like, my mom got them and my aunts get them. Like, it's a thing. In our family of dense breasts, it's a whole situation. But even in that moment, I'm still. That is so different than how I was raised. I would have been. Every horrible thing would have been told to me. They would have put the fear of God into me. It would have been so scary. But even in that moment, I was like, wow, this is wild. This is so different than what my family would have done. And I'm just like, yeah, no, it's cool. I'm just going to go at this procedure. No big deal. Just want to make sure we're as healthy as we can be. So I know not everybody agrees with that, but our children did not ask to be born. They didn't. We signed up in one form or another. No matter how your kids came into your care, we signed up for this. They. They just. We are thrust into this world and we're doing this thing together. So if I signed up for this, then my job is to be their leader, right? Like, I'm their mama. I'm the captain. I'm the leader. And the leader is not ever supposed to go to the first mate. Like, they're never supposed to go to the kid and be like, oh, I'm really scared, or work is really stressful, or, you know, I'm. I just. That's my personal opinion. I don't think there are partners. I think that we signed up to lead them. Well, we signed up to be their parents. And the thing I wished I had most as a little kid is I wished I wasn't afraid. I wished I had confidence that it would be all right. And that is not something that was told to me. And that was not something that was modeled. So by God, my kids are always going to like, yep, we're okay. And I. I do really want to say I model behavior of. They know when I'm sad. They know, like, I'm, you know, in promo for this book, so I'm. Workload's a lot heavier. You know, I just had this happen with same kid, 16 year old last week, was really frustrated and kind of lost my temper a little bit and then was like, dang it. Oh, I hate when I do that. Literally eight minutes later, walked back in his room. I was like, hey, man, I'm so sorry. I'm feeling tired. I didn't mean to be so short with you. And he's like I'm sorry, I shouldn't have, you know, I knew better. You told me to be ready, I wasn't ready. Like we both had an apology moment. So they know when I'm going through hard things. I just, I don't put it on them. That's on me. So like I'll figure it out. But that's what I signed up for.
- [46:01]
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- [47:32]
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- [47:54]
Alyssa Blask Campbell
When it comes to raising kids, there's so much to consider. Things like what do we feed them, when do we feed them, how do they sleep? What does it look like to raise kind kids? How does their nervous system work? How do I keep myself calm? What are my triggers? There's so much that comes into play and we are distilling all of that information for you at Voices of your village podcast, where we bring experts in the field of early childhood and education and psycho psychology and across the board so that you don't have to comb the Internet for information. You get to show up and hang out and have shame free judgment, free conversations and insights into what it looks like to raise kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent humans. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I have a master's degree in early childhood education. I'm a mom of two and I am walking this journey right alongside you doing this work. Come hang out with me at Voices of your village and we can dive into real conversations with actionable tips.
- [48:54]
Jenny Yurich
It made me think. It really made me stop and think. And I think that because you wrote it, it will make other, you know, anyone who hears that, you'll stop and think. You know, maybe, maybe I hold this and maybe that's what's best for my kids. And especially in reading the totality of your story, you know, with your brother and, and seeing that, that, that didn't happen to you. And then what were the ramifications of that? I got chills when you talked about, I mean, you're the one who calls 91 1. You're a 14 year old girl, you're freaking out. You come from this background of church. And I've heard the things too about like, if you take your life, you go to hell. I don't know, I'm like, well, that person is like at the end of their rope.
- [49:32]
Rachel Hollis
Absolutely.
- [49:33]
Jenny Yurich
That's never really made any sense to me. I haven't like studied anything about it. But yeah, and so you're. Because of these things that you've been taught, you know, that's an extra layer of freaking out on top of already. Like you can't even really wrap your mind around that situation being you in that situation. And you wrote about how a couple days later you're getting cards and everyone's sending stuff, casseroles and cards and flowers and you got a card.
- [49:59]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [50:00]
Jenny Yurich
To Rachel. Rachel gets a card.
- [50:02]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [50:02]
Jenny Yurich
What do the cards say?
- [50:03]
Rachel Hollis
So when I, that morning I, I called 911 and the thing that I latched onto, I mean, it's just so horrible. And I understand now what trauma is and what our brains, especially as children do in that situation, but I latched onto is Ryan in Hell. Is Ryan in hell? I kept saying it over and over, sort of obsessively on 911 because I just. I wasn't making sense. And I knew I could contemplate what I was, what he had done and what I was seeing. And so I kept asking that question over and over, and I don't even remember what that person said that day. But, yeah, like you said, a few days later, I got a card in the mail from the 911 operator that I had spoken with that day. And she sent a letter of condolence to our family and said, you know, Rachel, I want you to know that Ryan is in heaven even saying this to you. It's so many years since that happened, and it still touches my heart so much. It was like, yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. Like, it was so powerful. I don't even know if I remembered saying that until she sent the card. It's also. I never would think about how much a 911 operator must have to hear in a day. But hearing a little girl cry about that and then taking the time to send a note and say, you know, we believe in a loving God and a compassionate God, and, yeah, Ryan is in heaven, that was a big, big, beautiful moment in a otherwise really, really hard time.
- [51:36]
Jenny Yurich
And here she would never know. She would never know that it's going to go on to be in a book.
- [51:40]
Rachel Hollis
I know. I wish I knew her name. I wish I knew her name.
- [51:43]
Jenny Yurich
Yeah, I got chills. It reminded me that sometimes you talked about. You know, it's like these small things sometimes can really change your life. And it's a reminder for us, I think, to show up and to follow intuition. That's one of the things you talk about, about a lot. When I opened it, there was a handwritten Note from the 911 operator who had answered my call that day. She told me she was so sorry. She told me I was brave and strong. She told me she wanted to make sure I knew for sure. Yeah, like I'm emotional, too, that Ryan was in heaven. This stranger gave me hope when I thought I'd lost it all. This stranger spoke truth into my life when I needed it most. With a few lines, she was able to shift my feelings on what had happened and gave me truth that no one in my family would have dared to believe, that the creator of the heavens and the earth is infinitely bigger and more loving than any religious dogma can contain. With a few lines, she saw my pain, and she made me believe it mattered. There's so much in these books. That's the thing, Rachel. It's like, like that's a reminder to follow your intuition and to do those little things that may seem. I. I would imagine that maybe she even felt awkward.
- [52:45]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [52:46]
Jenny Yurich
Who am I to write a note to this 14 year old girl? Yeah, she's probably gonna think this is weird. The parents might get mad, they don't know me. And yet she did it anyway. And it was so powerful. So I love that. I mean, these books are filled with these life lessons, wisdom. It's coming like from all of the different directions. I'm switching gears because this is a little heavier. But I was like, okay. There's so many stories about like bathroom things and like farting. I'm like, okay, this isn't ever in any books written by women.
- [53:12]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [53:12]
Jenny Yurich
And so I thought it was really funny, but I have to. So I was like, I have to tell you this story. So you wrote, I live in fear of someone walking in on me using the toilet. The only thing worse than someone walking in while I'm going to the bathroom is someone doing it on a day that I thought it would be cute to wear a jumpsuit because now they not only see my hoo ha, which is the word that we use, which I love that they're also trying to figure out why I took off all my clothes to peace. So I'm telling you, I want to tell you a story.
- [53:35]
Rachel Hollis
Yes.
- [53:35]
Jenny Yurich
I think this is what's so fun about the books. Okay. I. We, we went a couple's date, like, I don't know, this is probably a decade ago with this couple. And the girl is just like stunningly beautiful. Like she'd done pageants anyway, you know, And I, like, you had talked about how one time you had had people stand up, like if they feel like they don't like their looks. And it's like most of the people. But this would have been the girl that, like, she, she.
- [53:57]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah, she was just fine.
- [53:58]
Jenny Yurich
Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, oh, going to dinner with this couple. So I wore like some sort of a shapewear thing, like probably like some Spanx or you know, whatever. And dinner ended and she was like, oh, we both had to go the bathroom and she's like, let's go together. And I didn't know her very well and I was like, okay. I mean, so she just links arms and in we go to the thing. And it was like a, like a single one, but like a big room, but like you're in there together. And I had to do that, Rachel. I had to take off my Spanx. It happened.
- [54:29]
Rachel Hollis
No. In front of her.
- [54:31]
Jenny Yurich
Yes.
- [54:32]
Rachel Hollis
Oh, I would have faked, like, death. I would have. There's no way. There is no way.
- [54:38]
Jenny Yurich
I was, like, in it. I don't know. I didn't know how to. I didn't have a skill set to get myself out of it.
- [54:44]
Rachel Hollis
My God.
- [54:44]
Jenny Yurich
I was like, well, I'm wearing these things.
- [54:46]
Rachel Hollis
Here we go. So that is my life. You've lived my nightmare.
- [54:51]
Jenny Yurich
I came out on the other end. I'm okay.
- [54:53]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [54:53]
Jenny Yurich
You know, I'm still here.
- [54:54]
Rachel Hollis
That's true.
- [54:55]
Jenny Yurich
I went through the hardship, and I. I came out in a good spot.
- [54:59]
Rachel Hollis
Amen.
- [55:00]
Jenny Yurich
So, anyway, I just. I love that you write about all of those. Just different things. It's really interesting to me, Rachel, that, like, what is going on in our world that women have to come up and share their story so much? Like, why do we have no one? What is going on with that?
- [55:13]
Rachel Hollis
Right, Right. Well, I also think. I mean, this is. What is this? 2, 3, 4. Four books I've written kind of in this vein, this nonfiction, talking about life, sharing stories. And I still get so much pushback about telling stories that aren't polite. So, like, I. You. If you read this new book, you know, I talk about perimenopause and my uterus and periods and just all of this stuff, because I am living this every day. And all my girlfriends are living this every day. And the editor of it, she kept pushing. Are you sure? Like, it just feels like, are you sure you want to tell? Do you want to keep. And I'm. I find it so funny because this is real life. I'm not talking about anything crazy. I'm talking about just being a human being.
- [56:05]
Jenny Yurich
I leaned forward and I farted.
- [56:07]
Rachel Hollis
Yes, I accidentally farted. And I'm still mortified. And I can't believe I just said that word to you, but it happens. And I don't understand this. These. I don't know, the culture around women only needing to show up a certain way, and that's, like, polite and beautiful and nothing. There's nothing about us that is displeasing to anybody else. And I just. I don't know how to be that way. And I would much rather just get to show up as a whole human. And not everyone has to like who we show up as when we show up as our whole selves. But, gosh, it feels so much better to just live your life and be like, well, here I am. And sometimes I make mistakes, and sometimes I accidentally fart, and sometimes I wear shapewear and have to take it off in front of the beauty pageant queen. And this is what my life is.
- [57:00]
Jenny Yurich
Yeah. I mean, you talk about, like, you getting up with Oprah. Yes, this is my shot. This is the newest one. What if you are the answer? And 26 other questions that might change your life. Like, this is your shot. And all your friends are like, this is it. Yeah. Rachel, you're going to get to do a sleepover. I mean, this is going to change your life.
- [57:17]
Rachel Hollis
She's about to. She's going to love you. Yep.
- [57:20]
Jenny Yurich
Get up there, talk about all your stuff. And you're like, this was the wrong audience.
- [57:24]
Rachel Hollis
Wrong audience. Wrong audience. They were a lot fancy and more proper than I am. Clearly they did not want to hear the story about me losing a tampon inside my body, but it happened. And I still think it's hilarious. And I stand by that story. It kills in the right crowd. That. That will. I have a whole thing about, like, yeah, it's a Amy Grant starts playing in my mind. She's singing El Shaddai as I'm thinking that I'm dying. And really, it's just a tampon. Anyway, that did not go over so well with Oprah's audience. But I would much rather, no matter who it is, show up as myself. I would so much rather, because I've thought about this a lot. And obviously, since I wrote about it in the book, I thought, what would it be like if I had just gone and given a keynote speech that I know would have worked for the crowd I was in front of? And, like, would it have led to more success or would they have wanted me to continue to speak for them? And I don't know.
- [58:24]
Jenny Yurich
I guess you wrote you were. I never heard from their team again.
- [58:29]
Rachel Hollis
I never heard from her team again. That's okay.
- [58:32]
Jenny Yurich
And you were such a big Oprah fan.
- [58:34]
Rachel Hollis
Oh, I still am. Oh, I still. I love her.
- [58:37]
Jenny Yurich
You're like a latchkey.
- [58:38]
Rachel Hollis
Yes, I'm an Oprah baby. I will always stand. I just adore her and always will. But I don't think my dreams of, you know, having a slumber party with her, I don't think that that's going to come to fruition, sadly.
- [58:53]
Jenny Yurich
I love your wording. You got the most tepid response.
- [58:56]
Rachel Hollis
I did.
- [58:57]
Jenny Yurich
You said when you were talking about the food blogger and the eggs, the room temperature eggs. You wrote I was digitally slaughtered. It's like the warning. It's so great. Rachel. I love it. You are there's no such thing as a single shot at love or success or life. And if you buy into that myth, it will push you into situations that your gut, the seed of your wisdom, is trying to warn you again. So that was all about intuition. There's so much. There are so many topics that you weave through. And I really basically had this whole list of, like, the truths, the wisdom that you've learned. You know, you've had a miscarriage, your ex husband passed away, is the father of your children. Your top advice? Live your life. Live it. You talk about fear. You talk about the different kinds of fear. I mean, so many different types of things. And that's it, I guess, right? Like that women are not used to other women showing up as themselves. And so when someone does, they flock.
- [59:46]
Rachel Hollis
They flock more than anything. I hope that if I tell you the embarrassing things about me, if I tell you how I mess up, if I tell you the hard stuff that makes you feel less alone. Not that you live the same life that I live, but certainly we all have our version of it. And I hope it makes you feel less alone. And I hope it makes you more willing to share your story, even if it's with just another mom at school drop off that you're. You know what it's like to go through something hard. We all do. I don't know a single person who has escaped hard. So if we're all in it and being a parent, it's, you know, it's like compounded. Every kid you have, your hardship is compounded because now you're trying to process your stuff and their stuff and do a good job and it's a lot. So I just think that, you know, you talk about the beauty pageant linking arms with you. If we just link arms with each other and talk about the real stuff, I don't know, it calms my spirit. And everyone I know or have met in the process of doing this work has been combined as well. So I just would love to encourage anyone who's listening to us right now to share your story and to hold space for other people to do the same.
- [60:52]
Jenny Yurich
Rachel, this has been a freaking honor. Yeah. What in the world? We got an email from your PR person, like Rachel Hollis. I was like, stop it. No freaking way. I just adore you. I'm so glad to have read these books. I cannot wait to go back and read the other ones. I got so much out of them. Learned so much. We always end our show with the same question. Real quick, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.
- [61:14]
Rachel Hollis
I'm gonna go with Christmas because it's my favorite and it's coming up when I was about 10 years old. It's hard. I can't even tell the story without being emotional. My family really struggled financially. I mean, kind of everyone in my family did. Aunts and uncles and everybody. And so you. I would make a Christmas, but you know, you didn't really know exactly what you were going to get. And it probably wasn't going to be anything elaborate. And when I was about 10 or 11, I so badly wanted a bike. All the other kids in the neighborhood had a bike and I wanted one badly. And that was just an amount of money that wasn't likely for my parents. And on Christmas Eve, which was always a big deal, we go to grandma and grandpa's house and aunts and uncles and everyone would squeeze into this two room house just packed to the gills and we got to open presents. And there was a little box under the tree that had my name on it. And there was a letter on top. And the letter said, and I still remember Aunt Linda wrote it. Who's the one who gave me the key to her house? Aunt Linda wrote it. And she wrote it in rhyme because she saw it. She said, rachel, we all know you want a bike, but we're all very poor. But we put together all our pennies and rushed down to the store and if you want a bike, it's right outside the front door. And I ran outside and there was a pink bike. They had all pulled their money and there's a pink bike on Christmas Eve and I got to ride it down the middle of the street. And I rode that bike until it fell apart. And it's still such a special memory for me as a little girl. So that is my favorite childhood memory. Outside at night, Christmas Eve, all the Christmas lights on the street. Really, really special.
- [62:55]
Jenny Yurich
Wow, That's a life changing story. Yeah. Rachel, thank you. Thank you so much for what you put out into the world and thank you so much for being here.
- [63:03]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah, thank you, Jennifer.