← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 417: Raising Steady Kids in a Shifting World | Jon Acuff, Do Over
01:18:04
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- [00:01]
A
Today's show is sponsored by Strawberry Me. Are you feeling uncertain about what's next in your life or career? You're not alone. Life can be so overwhelming. Big decisions, changing relationships, or just trying not to make a mistake. There are definitely times when I question what I'm doing, and I bet that's something we all struggle with. At times, it's easy to start questioning myself. Whether what I'm doing matters, if I'm capable enough or even on the right path. Sometimes it feels like no matter what I accomplish, the doubts are always there holding me back. That's why I decided to try something new. Strawberry Me personal coaching. And let me tell you, it has been so eye opening having someone to really listen, ask the right questions and help me focus on what truly matters. It's the kind of support I didn't even realize I needed. Strawberry Me will assess your needs and connect you with the perfect coach for you. You can start communicating in as little as four hours with a certified professional coach. Done securely online, it's more convenient and affordable than traditional coach. And there's a broad range of coaching expertise available in the network. Visit Strawberry Me Outside. That's Strawberry Me outside. And take charge of your future with the help of a certified coach. Make sure to take advantage of the special offer for 1000 Hours Outside podcast listeners and get 20% off your first month membership at Strawberry Me Outside. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ert. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And your favorite is Max Today, John Auff. Welcome.
- [01:32]
B
Thank you for having me again. I love coming on this show. Every time I come on it, you're even bigger and bigger and bigger. Every time I follow you on Instagram, you're like, I interviewed the moon. And it's like, how did she get the moon to come on? And so it's so fun to watch your podcast. Just grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. I love it, John.
- [01:49]
A
That's so nice of you to say. And you join in toward the beginning. First episode 75 and we're hitting close to 400 here. And the episode that you came on, I want my family to get the best of me, not the rest of me.
- [02:03]
B
Yeah.
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A
And so many times you come on, people rave about these episodes. I get all sorts of messages about them. So I really appreciate it. The coolest thing is that I constantly can read new books from you because you have so many of them. It never ends.
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B
I got it right. Babies need shoes. My kids wear very expensive shoes. I have to Constantly be writing. I'm writing all the time.
- [02:26]
A
New York Times bestselling author of 10 books. Is that right? Or more. 10, 10.
- [02:31]
B
I'm working on number 11 right now. So I'm in the middle of number 11, but yeah, it's 10 right now.
- [02:37]
A
You speak all over the country. Been FedEx, Range Rover, Microsoft, Chick Fil A, Comedy Central. You worked with Dave Ramsey for a while.
- [02:45]
B
Yeah.
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A
You have just done so many things. So you wrote this book called Do Over. We're going to talk about that in a minute. Make today the first day of your new career. That's one of the 10. We'll talk about it, like, in a little bit of a different angle of just, you know, that you can change your life. That's this big message that I got out of it. You can change your life. You changed your life. But before we jump in, I want you to tell us you have a live event at one of the coolest event spaces in the country this April. Tell us about it.
- [03:11]
B
I love that you've been to that and you've spoken there before. Yeah. We're doing our first live event. It's called Remarkable youe. It's in Franklin just outside of Nashville, at the Factory. The event space you just mentioned, it's on April 14th and 15th, and it's going to be a day and a half with hundreds of the most encouraging people you've ever met. A ton of content. I'm a content guy, so I think the way we're going to structure it is the first day is going to be all content and the second day is going to be commitment. So I really want to help people commit to the stuff they're going to build. This is not going to be an event where you walk out really inspired and by the time you get to your car, you forget what you're going to do. I'm a do it guy. I'm an action person. I haven't done my job. If I've really inspired you, but not given you practical, tactical things you can use to change your life. Because I've benefited from so many people that did that for me. And so it's my real mission to go, hey, you can be remarkable. Here's how you do that. And what's fun is that because I love your show. If you go to jonacuff.com live, that's J O N A C U F F.com live and enter the number 1,100, you can save 50 bucks automatically. And that code was easier for me to do. Because at this moment, I'm 11 hours from hitting my first thousand hours. And I say first because I'm doing again next year. This is a goal. There's goals that I try out. I always tell people, you should audition goals. One of the big mistakes people make is they commit to a goal for a New Year's resolution. They've never even dated. And that's like marrying somebody you just met. Never commit to 12 months for something you haven't tried first. So audition goals. So I auditioned that goal. Spending more time outside. And I kept enjoying it. Kept enjoying it, kept enjoying it. And I'll finish this thousand hours and I'll do it again next year and the year after that. So I'm such a huge fan of what you do. I don't know how many other podcasts I can say to the host. I invested a thousand hours of my life toward your mission. So it's easy for me to like when somebody goes, do you really like what she does? I can go, well, I like it. A thousand hours worth. I can't say that about any other podcast on the planet. And so it's easy for me to invite all of your listeners who do great stuff and care about their families. And the last thing I'd say about it. Cause I want to jump into do over the event. People keep asking me, who's it for? What type of person? And the thing that's fun is that it's not a niche event. Meaning it's not just if you own a business. It's not just if you want to declutter. Because I live a niche life. I don't want you to be remarkable in one area and have the other areas fall apart. The CEO who's really successful but his kids don't talk to him isn't really successful. And so what does it look like for you to be remarkable in every part of your life, which is possible? And so my big heart. And there's. There's times you'll see a motivational speaker and you'll go, but I don't know what the other parts of his life are like. And so for me, when. When somebody reads my bio, I love when they include. And he's been married for 23 years to somebody he's crazy about.
- [06:14]
A
He.
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B
He's got two adult children who are excited to come back home after college. There's lots of parts of our lives that I think can be remarkable. And I love to encourage people to have that be their approach to life. Not just they're really good at one thing, but the other things they're ashamed of. Or they're really good at one thing, but the other things they haven't thought about in years. What does it look like for us to have a remarkable life? That's the event. Thank you for giving me a chance to invite everybody to come.
- [06:39]
A
You are also the winner of Santa Wars. A good husband, good dad, amazing business person. Santa wars champion.
- [06:47]
B
Yeah, I'm crushing. I'm crushing. Yeah. I said today, Todd had his. If you don't know, if you don't follow me on Instagram. My next door neighbor and I, Todd Smith, who's fantastic and he's. He's in a band called Salah. Great musician. We put up rival inflatables. I'm all Santa. He kind of mixes it up. And his were down a lot over Christmas, I'll be honest with you. They are down. And his big Frosty, it looked like somebody had skinned Frosty and taken the meat. It was a very depressing sight. Just a clump of frosty on the ground. The Grinch was on the ground. And so, yeah, we do Santa wars and have a lot of fun, especially at Christmas.
- [07:29]
A
John, I think that's cool. You're a good neighbor, too. It's all the things. So the event sounds fantastic and it really fits with this do over book because a lot of the things that you talk about in here are about relationship and how sometimes just the small brushes that we have with somebody else can make a really big difference in their life and in our life long term. You call them boomerangs. You're sending out boomerangs and they're coming back. And so, you know, if you've got a little inkling that you're like, you know what? I would love to go to something like that. That's live, that's in person. I'm going to meet all these other people that are similar to me that have goals for their life that, you know, are trying to get somewhere or have different thoughts and they're inspired. That's a great place to go. I think it's hard to meet people who, you know. What do you mean? People at your job or what? You know, if you're like a solo entrepreneur, you're not meeting anybody.
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B
No, it's lonely. Excellence can be very lonely if you're not careful.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And that's what you find out, is that you have to deliberately surround yourself with other people that are engaged in the same thing. Otherwise it can be lonely. You look weird. Like when you Dare to change your life. Here's what you need to know. Remarkable is weird by design, because relatable is average. Average is average. Average is common. When you dare to do something and you say, this is how my family's going to be. This is how our home's going to be. This is how my business, this is how my health, whatever. When you dare to be anything other than average, it means you're stepping out. And so you're going to need people who step out, too, to keep you encouraged, to keep you inspired, to make you feel like you're not weird. I had an executive, really successful executive, once asked me, he said, john, have any of your relationships timed out? And I thought, what a great question. Timed out. And what he meant was, as you've grown, your family, your business, your health, your spiritual, you know, your faith, whatever, have there been relations that have relationships that have naturally timed out? And that does happen. Because what happens is, especially in certain moments where you go, oh, we're gonna host live events, or, here's what me and my family are gonna do. We're gonna try this thing, people go, why would you do that? Like, I've had people at my age, I' I've had people say to me, jenny, John, why are you still doing so much? Like, why are you still writing books? Just speak a couple times a year, Just enjoy what you've done. And that, to me, is wild. I always say, ask a bird why it still flies, because it can, because it's built for that. So for me, when you plug into your purpose, you don't want to do it less, you want to do it more. And so that's what I try to wake up in people to say. Like, no, you're remarkable. If nobody's told you that in a long time, I'm going to tell you that, and I'm going to help you figure out what your type of remarkable is. And you're going to sprint, and maybe you're going to go back to a town where there's not five other people that care about the same thing. But when you're in a community, you're going to experience it. That's what your podcast has done. Like, you've seen that. I know that you know, because we've talked about this. It thrills you when you see other moms and dads go, hey, here's how we designed our chart. This is our checkoff chart. Or, hey, here's how you know. I know one of your favorite things is when somebody goes, this is my Favorite challenge I failed. And that might sound weird, but what they mean is we only got the 400 hours, but we would have done 50 hours otherwise. And those 400 hours were magical. So I do not give myself an f for those 400 hours. That was all a plus. That's what happens when you have a community. So you do need people that are trying to be remarkable too, because it creates this fuel that'll keep you going.
- [11:05]
A
Yeah. Pushes you on it. Pushes you on. It really matters. And I love this part about the boomerang that you never know what. What's gonna come back and when it's gonna come back. Throwing a boomerang is a simple thing. It's not some huge thing. You just give it a throw. And you had all of this amazing advice in here about relationships while throwing good boomerangs. That was one of them. But being a first responder, like, yeah, be the first one to email or text right back, like, don't sit on it. But I think the title of do over, it really struck me, John, because we're nearing the end. We're just a couple years behind you. We're nearing the end of the high school age for our oldest, and you're kind of like, oh, you know, the thought of a do over is very appealing actually. Like, can I make some changes in my life or can I make some changes? Let's say I've got these other kids that are coming down the line, like, you know, should I be making some shifts? And in terms of job market, this book is so applicable because the job market is changing so rapidly. You wrote about someone you said, cocooned for eight years inside a big safe company, he unexpectedly found himself out on the streets. The career home he had constructed didn't exist any longer, and the rest of the world had changed dramatically since he entered the biodome. You're such a good writer. The biodome of that job. So let's start here in terms of. For parents. We're sending out our kids into this world. You're doing it. Your daughters are off at college. Into a world where career changes are happening fast. Our world is changing fast and we hate change. So this is different than how things used to be. How do we parent in light of knowing that this is what's coming for our kids?
- [12:41]
B
Yeah. I think you always. I think the first step is you parent toward the things that'll never change. Like you parent towards the things like honesty will never change. The need to be loyal will never change. The need to be on time. The little Things. The thing with change is it feels overwhelming. Parents go, everything's changed. That's what I'd call a broken soundtrack. I wrote a book called Soundtracks about mindset. That's a broken soundtrack. So I would say a lot of things have changed. That's a better soundtrack. But some things are still the same. And so it's the same. My wife is really good on this. I've been married for 23 years to Jenny. And Jenny said this just to me the other day. She said, I think where parents make mistake with social media is they think it's completely new. And she said, it's not. If you wouldn't let strangers into your, your daughter's bedroom, don't let them follow them on Instagram. It's not new. You like how you deal with strangers is how you deal with strangers. And so social media kind of confused people because it said everything's new, it's all new. And you go, no, we're going to relate it to the stuff that's always been true. This is how we communicate. Like, I would never gossip in my neighborhood so therefore I won't text something mean about another girl because I'm not a mean person. The texting doesn't get to change my character. My character is this. So I think the first thing when it comes to change, one of the things I use to take down the overwhelm is to go, what's still the same? So we know like if, if I was entering the job market just the other day, I had a young man, he's 24 years old, just lost his job and he said, hey, I've got this. I can work at this high end restaurant. I'm trying to decide should I do part time so that I can leave research to for my job search or should I go full time? And I said 100% full time. Why? Because if it's that old classic, if you want to make sure something gets done, give it to a busy person. I said, I don't want you leaving some amount of time you need. No, you'll get more done researching the other job. When you're remote in motion on a full time job, it's the same true with writers. Writers will say to me, john, I'm thinking about quitting my day job so I can write full time. And I'll go, do you write during your lunch break right now? Do you write before work? Do you write after work? Do you write on the weekends? And if they say no to those questions, they won't magically become A different person when they quit their day job and write out eight hours a day. I'd much rather them stay busy and emotion, because people in motion get more done. That's just, you know, a principle of life. So when it comes to change, I always try to calm people down and myself included with, well, what's still true. So the book is broken into things that will always be true. Your skills matter, your character matters, your relationships matter, your hustle matters. So for me, I would just apply true things to new tools. AI is a new tool, 100%. I would apply true things about myself and about the world to that new tool. I would apply the law of reaping and sowing. The more I practice with AI, the better I get at AI. That's the law of reaping and sewing. The more I connect with people on LinkedIn, the more chances I have for unique job opportunities to pop up. That's just the law of reaping and sowing. So I love to kind of simplify things down to, okay, well, what's true? And then how do we apply that to a new tool versus going, we're starting with a blank slate. Everything's different, everything's changed. Because that feels overwhelming to people and it shuts them down.
- [16:02]
A
John, that's really good.
- [16:04]
B
Oh, thanks.
- [16:04]
A
That's really good because. And then you talk about grit. Grit is one. Grit, awareness and flexibility. Those are in this book. Do over. Make today the first day of your new career or your new anything. Grit. Grit is fun to watch other people have.
- [16:17]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
What is grit? I mean, I, I think I've been in similar stage. You always laugh about it, these situations where you're like, I was at one, I'm at my own book signing. Like, seven people showed up and two of them were my in laws. You're like, this is the worst thing ever.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
But then you don't quit.
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B
No, no. And I guess for me, when it comes to grit, it's easier to have grit when you believe in what you're doing. So I think it's helpful for you to go, do I believe in this thing? Like, it won't be as challenging for me to sell the live event because I know what's going into it. I know people are going to get 100x value out of that. Like, it would be harder for me if, say, a sponsor came to my podcast and they were like, we know you've never used this toothpaste before, but here's some money. Go pretend you like it. That would be Hard, because then I'd have to be like, man, it's just so good for teeth. Like, I did. I wouldn't believe in it. And so I think sometimes if you feel that moment of I want to give up, I think it's helpful for you to go, do I really believe in this thing? I mean, do I really believe in this thing? And if I really do, then. Then I'm going to have grit. Can I do a little bit more? Not. I'm not going to look at a thousand steps more. Can I do a little bit more? Can I share this with somebody else? You're not supposed to carry the hard things alone. So if I have a bad moment, who can I share this to? Like, when I get a terrible comment or an attack online, I'll screenshot it and send it to a couple of people and be like, whoa, this person hated us. Like, the other day, I. Somebody said something really mean, and we had the auto DM thing set up in our comments on Instagram. So they said the mean thing and the Auto DM jumped in and said, amazing, I'll DM you the link. And it was so absurd. Like, her comment was very much, you're terrible. And the Auto DM picked it up and said, amazing, I'll send you the link. And so I had to laugh about that. So I think part of grit is laughter, too. Most people don't think about that side of it. Like, oh, man, this thing was rough. And then for me, again, like, I feel when you're connected with what you're doing, you just keep doing the next thing and you go, like, but this is what I'm supposed to do. So I've had situations where people go, man, that thing you had to do a year ago must have been really hard. And I don't remember it feeling hard at the time. I just remembered it as the next thing. Like, it would be very easy for people to look from the outside at what you've done with the number of podcasts you've done. I don't know what the stat is. It's probably 95% of podcasts quit after episode 10, and you're still building, building, building, building. When I hung out with your husband, he was like, hey, here's the things we're working on. And I'm so excited about what Jenny's doing. And if I said to you, jenny, it must be so hard, you'd probably say, yeah, there's challenging days, certainly. But, man, I'm just doing the next thing. And it's this opportunity opened up and I'm leaning into that and I'm doing. I'm trying this next thing, and this one blew up in our face, so we're not doing that one again. But this one has a lot of potential, and it feels different when you feel like you believe in the mission. And so I think that's. That's part of grit, too, and then also just being willing to process it. One of my soundtracks is Throw Shorter Pity Parties. I'm not against you having a pity party. I think it's very. I think it's very wrong to tell somebody. You don't get to feel sad about that or upset about that or, like, get over it. Just throw a shorter pity party. Like, sit in the moment and go, yeah, that thing didn't work. It hurt. I'm embarrassed. But I've had my pity party. Like, now I'm back at it. And speaking of embarrassed, another soundtrack I've been saying a lot lately is, embarrassed beats bored. Embarrassed beats bored. Man, that one saved me because I don't like to be embarrassed. I'm like everybody else. I don't want to be embarrassed, but, boy, do I hate being bored.
- [20:03]
A
Well, I don't know if I. I don't know if I believe it.
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B
Embarrassed beats bored 100%. I don't like being bored. Like, and you don't either. I know you don't either based on the stuff you're doing. So for me, like, I don't like how bored feels, and I don't like what I get up into. If I'm bored, I'm like. Like, I think of myself like a Jack Russell, that small dog that if you don't. If it doesn't have a job, you come home, it's on the top of the fridge and it's torn up every part of your. Like, it needs activity. I need activity. I'm built for activity. So I'd much rather be in motion. So for me, I'm way more willing to risk a little embarrassment. Like, I want to be on stage. Like, that has the potential for embarrassment. If somebody said, hey, dude, you don't have to ever run the risk of being embarrassed on stage. You're going to have to sit in the crowd for the rest of your life. But you never. Like, you'll never have to worry about being embarrassed, I would choose embarrassed overboard a hundred times. Like, a hundred times. And so for me, those are the little things that keep me going. When I feel like giving up, when I feel like not doing it, when I feel like I don't want to have grit another day. Like little soundtracks like that, you know, embarrassed beats, bored. I go I'm gonna try it again. I'm gonna try it again.
- [21:20]
A
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- [24:18]
B
Big deal meal.
- [24:19]
A
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- [24:28]
B
You've got all day at Jack.
- [24:31]
A
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- [24:35]
B
And then also, like, I know it'll help somebody else, like, if I share it. Like, I say this all the time. Like, part of doing what we do is going first so other people can go second. Like, when you lead leadership, one of the things you do is you give everyone in the room the gift of second. And it's hard to go first because there is risk and there is embarrassment. But other leaders did that for me. And so, like, I got to go second. So there's times where I go, man, I'm gonna share this thing. That's hard for me. Because I bet it's hard for other people. And more than, like, the best books I've written have been when I found something that I felt like, needed to be fixed in my own life. And I worked on it for a few years, and it worked. And then I shared it. And then other, because I said, I bet other people have soundtracks. What is my bestselling book that I've ever written? Because I, I had a lot of overthinking. I had a lot of anxious thoughts. And so I, I was like, I gotta do something about this. So I, I put in the work, and then I shared. And then I was brave enough to tell other people, like, hey, I'm an overthinker. Anybody else here an overthinker? And then a bunch of overthinkers are like, you're an over what? No way. Like, me too. And then it created this conversation. That's what's fun for me.
- [25:45]
A
Every time we talk, you have new soundtracks. So I guess I should be doing this. I think I should be doing this. You know, my mom has some. And I think that those little quips that people say are so powerful. So I don't know, I guess it never occurred to me in all of these conversations to be like, I should come up with some of my own.
- [26:05]
B
Well, because I need them. Like, I need them. Like, there's. There's people that will go like, oh, that thing is a crutch. Here's the thing. For me to play at the level I want to play at, I'm going to throw every single tool available. Like, one of the principles I'm going to teach the permissions at the event is the permission to throw the kitchen sink. Like, where if I'm up against a challenge, I throw every tool I have against it. Like, when I'm writing a book, writing books is hard for me. Like, I know somebody might go, well, you've written 10. Yeah, it's only getting harder. Here's the thing, Jenny. When you write the 11th book, you have to dig deeper for the stories, because all the surface stories are done by book 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Like, there's no more surface stories for me. I have to climb really high on the tree to get the piece of fruit that's left, and so that's hard. And so when I write a book, I'm using 10 different tools. I'm throwing so many things at it. So for me, when you say, hey, you have soundtracks, I'm like, yeah, because I need them. Like, I'm trying scary stuff, and I need them. Like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't need them if I. If I was trying things that I already knew how to do. But I'm not. Like, I'm trying stuff that scares me. I'm. I'm out over my skis. I'm, you know, I'm asking folks for help because it's bigger than me. And so, yeah, the more I. The, like, the more I grow, the more I need an expansive array of tools to throw at this new challenge and to say, wow, if I'm going to get this thing done, like, if I'm going to play at that level, here's a soundtrack I need for encouragement.
- [27:38]
A
The book is fantastic. We've talked about that one, and there's a version for teens, too, called your new playlist. So it's a great one to add. Your homemade makes me a little emotional because I've never considered writing my own. And every time we talk, you have new Soundtracks and the ones that my mom has, have been so powerful to me. Like those little quips that come into your mind, too, that my mom say. That my mom says, I guess is how you would say that one is. She says, let your. Let your smile be your umbrella. And I have used that so much in my life. It's like when you're uncomfortable, when you're in an uncomfortable situation. And I'm in uncomfortable situations all the time because I'm also out over my skis. I'm with people I don't know. I'm like, how did I end up in this room? How did I end up on this stage? You're looking around, who picked me to be up here? And I really do lean on that. And she also says, give with a warm hand.
- [28:31]
B
Oh, that's good.
- [28:32]
A
I know. And so sometimes I'm like, you know, I really feel like I should give to that person. Then I'm like, oh, it's kind of dumb. They're going to think I'm weird, you know, or maybe it's just not wise. But those soundtracks, they're there. And so what a cool thing. That's a legacy you're passing on to your kids. I'm saying it from, like, the perspective of being a kid whose mom had some. And she says, make your bed, you sleep in it. You make your bed, you sleep in it. Like, you know, these are your own choices. And, gosh, I think about them a lot, John.
- [29:01]
B
Yeah. And I guarantee your kids would say the same thing. I think a lot of times one of the best ways to learn is to just overhear yourself, like over here. What. What are the things I'm saying? One of the things I've learned the last year is that if you don't listen to your heart, it eventually uses your mouth. So you start to say things to other people that are really for you. So if your heart can't get through, it goes fine. When you give advice to people, it's actually for you. I hope you'll catch it then. And so for me, I'm often listening to advice going, oh, wait, I think that might have been for me. I told that person to be brave. I think that was for me. I think that was my heart using my mouth to get to my ears and actually get to my hands and my feet. Okay, I heard you loud and clear. Let me jump on that. And so I bet you're using more soundtracks than you know. You're often just so close to them, you don't notice them. So, like, when somebody, you know, if somebody asks me, like, what are the 10 things you do to write a book? Often it's hard for me to initially find them, but then I can go, well, you know, there's a three hour ambient loop I listen to on YouTube and that really kind of helps me clear my head while I write. And I, oh, and I, I only wear a certain pair of headphones when I'm writing so that it's a physical cue that it's time to write. I don't listen to movies in them. I don't, you know, run in them. They're only for writing, like, and I can come up with a list of things I do, but I needed that prompt from somebody else. So I guarantee if you and I had coffee and I said, okay, well, let's figure out what your soundtracks are. The giving one is interesting. I thought about that yesterday. Like, one for me is like, how much does it cost to change somebody's entire day? And I realized Yesterday it's only $40. It's pretty affordable. It's very like, I. That happened yesterday. So yesterday I took my last trip of the year. I did an event in Houston and I park at parking spot. It's an off site parking lot in Nashville. They're national and usually you give like, you know, you park your car there, they shuttle you to, to the airport, and you usually give like two or three bucks. Like, that's the standard tip. So on the last trip, I always give 20 bucks each way because it's Christmas and I'm, you know, merry Christmas. So I, I did that and the guy, I handed him a 20 and he was like, whoa, when are you coming home? Like, I'll pick you up. I'll make sure I pick you up. I'll make sure I'm on shift. And so I was like, oh, it's great. So then the next day I came home and he was on shift too, and I gave him another 20 and he was thrilled. He was like, I was looking for you. Like, that meant the world to him. It cost $40. And so a soundtrack for me is it only costs $40 to change somebody's entire day. Now the money, like, the bigger picture for me is it only costs more than they expect to change somebody's day. So that's what's fun about life. If you are at a restaurant and the service is slow and the waitress expects you to be rude to her because the service is slow. If you're nice, you just change their day because you did something they weren't expecting. And so now it becomes kind of this fun little game where I start to look at life and go, how can I change that person's day? Like, what are the little things I can do? And then life gets really exciting and I get to super serve a lot of people. And I feel better internally when I encourage people versus discourage them. I think all humans are wired that way. So now, like, I'm feeling good all day because I'm encouraging people in unexpected ways. And so for me, those are what the soundtracks turn into actions that way. And. And it ends up being really fun. Like all of this, this life change stuff just gets really fun because you get to encourage people and change people's lives and change your own life. Like it, you know, he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. And it becomes this virtual, like, cycle. And that's. That's really enjoyable.
- [32:36]
A
This is going in a way different direction than I expected. I guess I. I'm like, really motivated for that to be one of my goals for 2025. Because you keep coming up with these soundtracks, and I just have been borrowing my moms for forever, and I'm like, I should come up with a couple of my own. So next time we talk. That's my goal for 2025.
- [32:54]
B
Yeah.
- [32:54]
A
At least to write a few.
- [32:55]
B
There you go.
- [32:56]
A
You wrote this. I really liked this. Talking about grip. I really like what you said about what things are not changing. If you've got kids and you're. You're trying to raise them in this world that's changing rapidly. This book do over is actually, like, really eye opening because you talk about the different skills and you call them invisible skills and adding value, and you have a list of nine things and then joke around because people want it to be 10 and they can't handle that there's nine. So, you know, you have all of these skills that you would want your kids to know and for. And for you to have if you're trying to switch careers. And then you talk about your character, like, pulling out the weeds of narcissism and pessimism and apathy and dishonesty and then being generous. Generosity is always cheaper than greed. Come on.
- [33:43]
B
It's a soundtrack. Totally. Totally.
- [33:45]
A
That's a soundtrack. Gosh, yeah, you're good at these. But I really love this for grit. Instead of saying, I don't have what it takes because that's what people are nervous about, say, I have what it takes to try. That's a good one. That's A good one to pass on.
- [34:01]
B
That's a sound and everybody has that one. The thing I think we, we get stuck on is I want to do it perfectly or I want to do it right away. I want to, you know, like it's funny, I had a conversation with a CEO yesterday, CEO and he said, and he runs a 500 person company. That's a big company to me, huge company. And he said, john, I'm working on my second book and I'm not a good writer. I'm not a good writer. And I said, I think you need to change that to I'm a CEO who's writing a book because he wanted full time excellence from a part time thing. So if I stepped into his role tomorrow and said, now I run a 500 person company, I'm going to do it one hour a day. And I've never done it before. You would go, hey, you're, you're not going to be very good at being a full time CEO with an hour a day. But he's stepping into writing, going, I expect instant excellence and I better be as amazing at this new thing as I am at the thing I've done for 30 years, which is lead a company. So I kind of tried to help him reset his expectations so that he could give himself permission to try and then get better. Because that's what the try is. The try is an invitation to get better over time. That's all it is. A try is an invitation. Get better over time. And you go, okay, I'm not where I want to be yet, but I'm starting. Which means I'm 90% of the way further than most people. Like most people don't even give themselves that permission. They hold back and go, well, until I've got everything I need, until, you know, perfectionists are always saying, until I know all the information, I can't make a change. And we haven't lived in an all information world in 300 years. The reality is you'll never have all the info. You have enough information, you make a decision and you iterate. You make another decision, you iterate. It's kind of the joke I sometimes do is like Thomas Jefferson, one of the things I used to say about him is that he owned all the books. I don't mean he owned a lot of them, he owned all of them. Any book that had been published, he had. You couldn't do that today. Like you couldn't possibly. So if one of your kind of hang ups is, I don't want to make the wrong decision. Until I know all the information, you'll never make a decision. So you have to get comfortable with, I made the best decision I could with the information I had, and I get to change that later. That's the thing fear tells you. This decision is forever. Fear loves to treat every decision like a tattoo. And they're not like, think of your decisions as temporary tattoos. You get to change that. You get to wash that off. If you made the wrong decision, you get to do something different. That's one of the things that I wrote about yesterday. People are afraid of putting their ladder against the wrong wall. It's an old metaphor from Stephen Covey. What if I climb to the top of this ladder and I realize it was against the wrong wall? And I don't think that's possible because whoever climbs a ladder without looking up, who only looks down when they climb a ladder? That's not how ladders work. As you climb, you're constantly looking up and going, is this still the right direction? Is this the right direction? And then here's the crazy thing. You get to change ladders. You asked me that at the beginning. Like, John, you made job changes. I'm not done changing. Like, I'm. I'm in the middle of a change right now. My life. I think everyone listening should think about their lives in eras. Like three, you know, three, four, five, six, seven different chunks. Arrows. Mine were from 20 to 34 was employee. I was an employee from 34 to 48. I was a solopreneur from 48 on. I'm a leader. I'm a brand new leader. And one of my broken soundtracks was I'm a bad leader. I was saying that to a friend, I'm a bad leader. I'm a bad leader. I'm a bad leader. And he said, I think you need to change that to I'm a new leader. I'm a new leader. And the same as moms. Any mom listening to this goes, I'm not a good mom. No, you're a new mom. You're a new mom. Like, yeah, and guess what? You're a new mom at every age of that kid. You've never been a mom of an adolescent. Like, Jenny and I were joking the other day. One of the hardest parts of parenting is this wasteland where every kid in the house needs to go somewhere, but you still don't have a driver yet. Like, the glory that is when you add a driver. Like, you get a 16 year old, a 17 year old, and you add a driver to Your house, you don't understand the joy that is. But like, when they're 15 and you've got five kids that all need rides and you're the only driver, and so it's new. You're a new mom. And so I think that's part of the challenge people face with grit is that they don't give themselves permission to try, which means they never get better.
- [38:33]
A
I used to do that with sports. Maybe you can't tell that I'm not super sportsy, but I would go out, you know, after church, there'd be like sand volleyball, and I would just goof around because I was like, well, if I don't try hard, then I don't know myself if I'm good or bad. And nobody knows.
- [38:46]
B
I can always pretend I could have been good.
- [38:48]
A
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We were at the bookstore today talking about decisions and iterating and these business books. I didn't see them. They probably are there and I was in the wrong section. But I did see stuff Christians like.
- [39:01]
B
Hey, yeah, still going, still rocking.
- [39:04]
A
Yes. Barnes and Noble in Brighton, Michigan. Stuff Christians like, so that's a decision and iterate. Right. Like you've written books and now you've written books about other things and you've given yourself permission to adjust and change over time, and the other ones are still there. I loved this as one of my favorite paragraphs, actually got really emotional. And it did make me think about parenting because we're in the teen ages when you don't really know. Like, you know, do they date? Do they not date? You know, how much time should we be giving toward academics versus social versus. It's a lot. And you're kind of. You're. I'm emotional about it. You really second guess. Sorry. So this made me really emotional and still is. Obviously. You really kind of sometimes second guess, like, should I have made that decision or should I have not? Here's what it says. The worst part of regret is that when we look back on a decision, we lie to ourselves. Equipped with the kind of information only hindsight can provide. We beat up our former selves for their stupidity and making the wrong decision. That person in the past, the you from before, didn't know what you know now, though they couldn't have predicted. You are not a mind reader. Be honest about that. When you look back on a decision, remember that you made that decision with the best information you had at the time. You're gonna have to take over.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So it's human nature. It's human nature. To do that. And essentially, what I was saying there was. Say it's six months later, and there's been a bunch that's come out like, your kid made some mistakes or maybe there's new science. You're a reader. You read a book that said the opposite of the thing you did. And, like, the title of the book is like, only Dumb moms do this. And you did that. And you go, oh, my gosh, 1,000 hours inside. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You go, the sun is killing our children. Like. Like, oh, no, like, circadian is a fake word. Like. And you go, man, and you hold yourself accountable with information and standards you didn't have. And then the other thing you do in that moment is you really beat yourself up, as if you didn't have the best intent when you made the decision. Even if the decision didn't work out, your intent was never, I'm making this decision so that my kid feels confused, so that they don't have friends, so that their future is shaky. I'm trying to really ruin this kid's life. That's never what you're doing, what you're always doing. If you're an involved parent. Like, if you're an involved parent, you're an active parent. You're saying, I want my kid to be successful. I want them to be happy. I want them to be healthy. I want them to have emotional health and physical health and mental health. I'm trying to set up their life in a way to foster that. That's where you start from. And I think that's a good reminder. And even just if you said, okay, it's a month later, it's a week later, or whatever, am I the same person who made that initial decision? Like, meaning, do I love my kids? Like, that's what's interesting is because when you beat yourself up, you go, man, there must have been a monster that did that. And you go, well, I'm not a monster now. Like, no, the same person, the same Jenny did that. It wasn't that. There's a Jenny now in the future that loves her kids, and the one six months ago did not love her kids. Like, you're the same Jenny. And so that's the thing. I try to remind myself, and then I'm trying to be really deliberate about second guessing and trying to catch myself on the second, third, fourth, fifth guess and go, wait a second, this isn't helpful. Like, what am I gonna do with this information? Like, I did that the other day. I had a conversation with a friend and I said something. I was kind of reviewing it and reviewing it and reviewing it, and I thought, I'm never gonna be in that exact situation again. This isn't helping me. Me, like now, if it's something I need to apologize for, then I need to go do that. But it wasn't. It was something dumb. And my brain was just kind of scanning through things to be anxious about. And I was like, we don't have anything else. Let's just focus on this. And I had to go, wait a second. I. I see what you're doing. Like, no, like, my wife sometimes will tease me and be like, when you are anxious, it's like you've got a waiting room full of possible subjects and they're just taking a number and you're just calling the number. You're not even really anxious about the thing. It's just, you're like. Like, man, I. I need to be anxious about something. You go, number 77. And that one walks up and goes, yeah, I'm. That thing you said to the cab driver a week ago. So would you like to think about that? Or like, hey, number 88. Number 88. I'm that. You let your kid watch too much TV six months ago. So if you'd like to think about that. And so if I can imagine pictures like that, it allows me to kind of smile at them a little more and not do some of that that. That beat up.
- [43:52]
A
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- [44:14]
B
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- [44:41]
A
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B
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A
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- [44:53]
B
When it comes to raising kids, there's so much to consider. Things like, what do we feed them? When do we feed them? How do they sleep? What does it look like to raise kind kids? How does their nervous system work? How do I keep myself calm? What are my triggers? There's so much that comes into play, and we are distilling all of that information for you at Voices of your Village podcast. We bring experts in the field of early childhood and education and psychology and across the board so that you don't have to comb the Internet for information. You get to show up and hang out and have shame free judgment, free conversations and insights into what it looks like to raise kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent humans. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I have a master's degree in early childhood education. I'm a mom of two, and I am walking this journey right alongside you doing this work. Come hang out with me at Voices of your Village and we can dive into real conversations with actionable tips. And then the other thing is, like, I think you have to think about some of those moments you regret. And the way I think about them is this way, I imagine, like, growing up, we went to Sunset beach, the small beach in North Carolina, every summer for a week with my family. That was our big family vacation. And I knew that beach pretty well because I had gone there 10 summers in a row. And every time you visit a regretful moment, you're adding another layer of detail and another layer of familiarity where you can go back there instantly. And now it's even easier and easier and easier to get there. Now a song can bring it up, A word can bring it up. So I have to sometimes tell myself, like, no, we're not. We're not going to vacation in that regret. We're not going to go spend, like, go see it every summer or go see it every time we hear it. Like, no, we're not going to roll around in that. We're going to process that if we need to. But we're not going to vacation in the regret because that's not helping and it's not leading to life change. Often I'm using it as a way to not do something I could do in the present because I can't do a lot about the past. You know, I can apologize, I can change some things, but there's a lot I can do in the present. So sometimes I have to be honest with myself and go, am I leaving the present because it's scary and overwhelming and I'm Vacationing in a regret that doesn't force me to do anything other than to feel bad. That. And I go, okay, wait, am I. Like, I'm learning part of self awareness is kind of stepping outside those emotional responses. So, like, the other day I realized, like, one of my soundtracks, I keep saying this, but I use them, is gossip is about me. Gossip is about me. When I gossip about somebody else, it's really my own inadequacy. So if I criticize another writer to somebody else, I must be feeling insecure about my own writing. And I need to pause because I just got an invitation from myself to learn about myself and. And work on myself, and I can do something about that. I can't change that other writer. But if I criticize somebody, go, oh, their event isn't good, or I didn't like their speech, or I don't like their podcast, I need to pause and go, why did I say that? Like, what about my stuff, right? Like, am I jealous of the success they've had? And I feel like I feel inadequate about my level of success. Did they get an opportunity that I didn't get? And that hurt my feelings? And I need to. But the gossip is usually never about the person. Like, gossip is about me. And if I can remember that, I can pause long enough to do something about it, and then I. Then I get to change, and then I get to grow. And it's not easy, and it's not automatic. I mean, I'm giving you soundtracks. Like, there's work involved. I don't want to. I never want to tell. Especially, like, a really busy mom, like, just do these three things, and it's different overnight. That's never, never how real life changes. It's always work, and it's always time, and it's always, you know, you add one step on another step. But it is possible. Like, it 100 is possible, and especially in community.
- [48:42]
A
Interesting how a book. I mean, it's called make today the first day of your new career. So actually, what I have. One of the things I've loved about podcasting John, is that I've read books that I may not have read otherwise. I've picked them up because I'm talking to this author again, or I talked to an author, and I really liked their first book. So I'm going to go down the deep dive and read their five others that maybe I wouldn't have read. And this book, which, you know, maybe you wouldn't pick up because you're a mom and you've got. You're at home changing diapers, but you're talking about truth. That's kind of what we started off with, which, what are the things that don't change? You're talking about grit, you're talking about fear versus regret. You're talking about let rock bottom be a trampoline. And all of these topics about relationships and all of the skills that we have. Don't burn bridges, leave with a thumbs up. All of these things. What do you do if you're an introvert? All of these things just are applicable to anyone's life. You know, finding motivation and when you hate change, but you have to change anyways in your character and truly living, not waiting for retirement. So what a gift. What a gift that is, John, for me to pick up a book like this and for it to really, it was very touching for me in a lot of ways. Beyond career and thinking about it in terms of preparing our kids or my own career, there was a lot more to it that just sort of applied to life and I appreciate that. You even talk about having fun. You think you're gonna do all these things when you retire, but you're old. It's harder postponing. Fun is a bad plan. So just so much you packed into this book, which is really impressive when you can write for a certain audience, but then it bleeds into other audiences. That's really interesting to me.
- [50:19]
B
That's one of my. That's one of the things I strive for. And sometimes I'm able to do it and sometimes I'm not. Not. But one of the things I do care about. And somebody asked me this recently, they said, well, how do you change how you talk? If you're talking to a group of mom bloggers or hedge fund managers or Range Rover. And I really try not to, because I try to find something that's human that I can speak to to every audience. So for me, what's fun is like when I have a week and I go, I spoke to Bob, the folks at Bob Evans, and then I spoke to a group of electricians, and then I spoke to a group of engineers. And they're a very wide, you know, multiple audiences, multiple companies, multiple industries. But I'm able to go, everyone sitting in that room is a human. And there's human things that are going to reach them. There's heart things that are going to reach them. Which is why, like when you said so and that's what if again, if we had coffee. It's always the metaphor I use, if we had coffee and you mentioned, and you said this earlier, like, I'm in all these rooms with people. I'm like, how did I get to this room? And I'm interviewing people that are like, like, how did I get to interview this person? I think one of the things I use in moments like that is they're human too. Like every room I'm in is made of human. Like it's all made a human. And I guarantee you've had this moment where you get around people that you look up to that you feel like, wow, they're levels ahead of me. And you go, oh, they're just making up a lot of this stuff too. Like you bump in on, you go like, that's funny. Like, they don't have some secret plan that they got from like, like, you know, on high. Like, oh, they're figuring it out too. Like, and if they're honest, they'll say that they'll go, you'll go, oh, that thing. I love that thing. You didn't go. And they'll say, dude, that was a hundred percent an accident. Like that was. We didn't even, like, we didn't even know. Like you and I had a conversation like that before we started recording of like, how did this thing happen? And you're like, like you had a boomerang moment like where you go, like. And I think that's what's fun is when you're around people like that that are self aware and vulnerable enough to go like, oh, that thing. Dude, I like, for me, like, do over. If I could go back, like, I would 100% change the title because people saw the title and felt like it meant they failed. And that was not my intent. My intent was that you've got a fresh start. And so what happened with that book, Jenny, was so interesting. It was a great lesson for me. Not the way I'd like to learn it. I'd rather learn it not on a book book. But what I learned was that you need to pitch the solution and fix the problem. So I did the the reverse Do Over. People read as, hey, failure. So you blew your life up. Oh, what? Like, nobody wanted to give anyone that book. No wife wanted to go to their husband. Hey, it's a book called do over about people who have blown their career. Made me think of you. Here you go, hubby. Like, like, dude, I had no idea prior to that and it was my title. I came up with the title. So I'm certainly not pointing the finger anywhere. But for me, that was a good lesson of like, how do I make sure I'm extra positive? So the follow up book, the book after that, I wrote this book called Finish, about finishing goals. And the initial subtitle was Stop making Perfect the Enemy of Done. But that was too negative. Stop an Enemy. So we changed it to Give yourself the gift of done. And it tripled the sales of Do Over. And so what I. I'm learning.
- [53:39]
A
Wow. Decision iterate.
- [53:41]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so, like, for me, that's what's. And I would tell you that. And I would tell any listeners, like, any listeners, like, hey, if you're going to title a book, pitch the solution on the COVID Fix the problem inside. Like, make it easy for somebody to identify with it. People don't like to identify. Like, a lot of people live in denial. And you have to convince them, hey, you have a challenge. I'd love to help you fix it. But if you say that too far on the COVID they go, I don't have that problem. What are you even talking about? Like, that's not. Or I don't want to be seen holding a book that says do over, which is kind of like, again, so you blew it. I thought it was positive. I thought it was rise from the ashes, you know, like, I had. And so I learned that and it changed. It informed every other book I've titled since.
- [54:24]
A
How interesting I feel on the other end of it when people come up and they're like, your podcast has changed my life. And I'm the same thing. I'm like, would you like to see my pile of laundry? I have no idea what we're eating for dinner. I had this lady at the factory, she came up to me and she said, where did you go to school to learn to speak like that? I was like, it came to me in a dream. So I don't know. I don't have any advice for you. I don't know how that works. That's what happened. And so it's good. It's good to apply it the other way too. Because I always apply it that way. I'm like, I've got nothing extra special. I mean, my room is a mess. I've got one clean spot right here and the rest of it is trashed. And. And that's how it, that's how it goes. So I like, yeah, but you're doing it.
- [55:07]
B
You're doing. That's the thing.
- [55:08]
A
Like, they're human too.
- [55:09]
B
They're human too. And also you're doing it like you're. If you can't see this if you're listening to this right now, Jenny's reading from a staple collection of notes she's made about the book. And so, like, you would say, well, that's what you do as a podcast host. I would say, a lot of podcasts don't. I know when I. The second I get on a podcast, I can tell if they've done no research. And the worst, the worst is when they say this. They go, well, this is just gonna be an. I want this to be a natural conversation. So I didn't read the book ahead of time. And now they're taking credit for being lazy. That's a win win for them. You got to be lazy. And also, you got to look like, oh, I'm a jazz musician. And the conversation is going to be organic because I didn't prepare where you're doing the opposite. So even as you go, yeah, I got dirty laundry. I don't know what we're having for dinner. I'm wrestling with my kiddos like they're teenagers. Like, I have teenagers. Sometimes people look at me and go, you guys must talk about goals at dinner all the time. And your kids are like, there's so many things we're working on that are just like everybody else. But I think at the. On the same level, I would love to give you that compliment of, like, you also prepare. You also work really hard. You're also really deliberate. There's so many things I've watched you do from episode 75 to this one. Like, I know when this episode comes out, there will be amazing graphics, and you will have done a beautiful job of pulling out things that super serve your audience. You will have deliberately gone in there as a caretaker of this audience and said, this line is going to help a lot of moms. This line is going to encourage them. I'm curating this. The people you come on your podcast aren't accidental. You're deliberate about who's going to really help the people that listen to my podcast. So as much as you'd say, hey, there's a lot of mess, there's a lot of mess in all our lives, there's also a lot of work that's gone into the thing you're doing. And if people are humble enough to ask you that question, you're generous to share what's worked for you and what hasn't. And I think that's part of why people listen to this podcast.
- [57:08]
A
Thanks, John. That was so nice. This is the first podcast that I've, like, really, like, broken down and Cracked. Usually I can kind of keep it together, but what an interesting thing that. A book about career change.
- [57:20]
B
Yeah, let's go.
- [57:21]
A
It's, like, so, like, deeply meaningful to me. I have one last question to ask you, and it's really kind of deep.
- [57:26]
B
Yeah.
- [57:26]
A
And I've been. You're the person I want to ask. I've not asked anybody else, but I think that you're the person to ask. I've been thinking a lot about legacy, legacy leaving, because I don't know if the world has changed and a lot more people are entrepreneurs or if all of a sudden I'm rubbing shoulders with people who are different than I used to rub shoulders with when I grew up. You lived your own life, and your parents lived their life, and then you went on and did your own. But I'm rubbing shoulders with a lot of people. Like, I had Sadie Robertson on. Her home is built on this land that her grandpa tried to do a Christmas farm on, Christmas Tree Farm, and it failed. And that's where her house is. And there's, like, some legacy leaving there beyond spiritual and beyond, you know, maybe the morality that we leave. There's, like, this legacy leaving. So people always say on your deathbed, you're not going to wish that you worked more. But then I kind of think that that might be a little bit of a lie, because people are leaving a little bit of a legacy. And you had this one line in the book. It was one of my favorite lines, where you're, like, doing fine in your business. And so you took on another speaking engagement, and your wife was like, well, that's too many. And you. She said, we're fine. And you said, but I want to be finer. And you know that. That sort of. So I don't. I'm wrestling with it because I'm starting to see the. The legacy leaving benefits to my kids for working hard. But also there's some pushback there, like. Like that on your deathbed. So I don't know.
- [58:44]
B
Yeah. No. I'm so glad you asked this question. And I'm honored that this was an emotional one. So I am honored that we get. This is a byproduct of. We've done this multiple times, and we genuinely enjoy each other. Like, I really like your husband. I really like what you guys do. So, One, I'm honored by that. Two, a friend of mine said that to me the other day. He was like, man, that whole, you'll never be on your deathbed and wish you'd worked more. He said, that's garbage. He said, what that means is you didn't care about the people you worked with. He's like, what kind of monster goes, I'm so glad I never like. He said, if you care about the work you do and the people you serve and the community you, honor, then of course you enjoyed spending time there. You weren't trying to escape it. You're not trying to punch out and go, mom's outside. I'm just. It's another day at the factory. Another day. Like, that's not your heart. Your heart is. Is. I can't believe I get to shepherd two things. This amazing family, this amazing community. That's awesome. So I 100% disagree with the. You'll never be on your deathbed and wish you would, like, spend more time at the office. You must hate your co workers. If you say that you hate your work, you hate your coworkers. That's a terrible way to look at life. I think the answer for me is that there's dials. Like, there's dials in life, and you're constantly monitoring them, and you're going, okay, I dialed it too far. I need to dial it back. And there's seasons where you don't see it coming, and you go, you know what? That was a really busy season. An example for me, when we first moved to Nashville, Dave Ramsey was super generous with putting me on his stage. So I went from speaking to 80 people, and within a month was speaking to 8,000 because he had arena events. And he would say, you're gonna do 10 minutes at the front and warm up the crowd. And I would go out there and I'd try to warm them. But what that meant was I got a lot of events on my calendar all at once and without me paying attention. The first eight weeks, we lived in Nashville. Seven of the eight, I was gone. And that was really hard for Jenny because we had just moved here. She had no friends, and it was November or October. It was dark, it was gloomy, it was all the things. And so she had to say, like, hey, we gotta change this. I dialed the dial too far to one side. And so I had to work on this. That. And then there's other times where you go, this is a season where we're able to do that, and, you know, like, we're in a different season, or, you know, here's what we're going to do with our kids. I think the pressure as a parent is you think you can do it perfect one time and it'll maintain itself. And I wish life was like that. I wish you could do something one time. And it maintained itself for a year, for a month, for 10 years, whatever. But I think it's much more. That's the flexibility part, too, is that you're flexible with, like, okay, here's the season we're in right now, and I need, like, so, like, one of my goals is to be interruptible for a small amount of people. I'm very interruptible for Ellie McCrae and Ginny. Like, they're like, I'm very interruptible. So I can. I can practice. They come in the office. I don't spin this chair like a jerk that's been bothered. You know, how is my face? How is my tone? How is my. And I'm not good at that. There's some days where I'm just honest with you. Like, if I'm in the middle of writing something, I certainly. They turn back like, they've just ruined the Magna Carta. Like, I was so close to finishing the Constitution with this amazing thing I was writing, and I have to go. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was in the middle of something. I was being a little intense. But I think little things like that go a long way. And then the legacy thing, what. I mean, the Sadie Robertson thing's interesting. What I'm curious about is I want to build a place that my kids are excited to bring their kids. Kids back to. That's one of, like, there's a couple financial flexes nobody talks about enough. Like, and they're far out. I'm not saying it's tomorrow or it's easy, but, like, one of them is, you're not a financial burden to your own kids. Like, dude, that is such a flex. One of the largest GoFundMes right now. It's funerals. Because people are so in debt, they then make their family do a fundraiser to pay for the funeral. Can you imagine that? Double whammy. You go, I've just died. You're in crisis. You're going through the worst thing. By the way, go panhandle for my funeral. Like, dude, what a move to go. I'm in my 40s. How in my 60s, 70s, 80s, do I not become a financial burden to my kids? Again, not a sexy goal. Like, a Jet Ski is way sexier. Don't get me wrong. But, like, dude, that's a pretty cool financial flex. Like, another one is, like, I want to have a place where my kids go, oh, we always go here for Christmas. Like, what would that look like? Like, what would it look like for have a mountain house, a beach. Beach house, just a Franklin house, whatever. That was set up so that the kids wanted to come back to it. That's a cool flex, like. And what I've learned is that super successful people do life that way and they don't make dumb decisions. And this is my last one. I'll. I promise I'll stop after this. But I'm passionate about this point. A dumb decision, especially for girls. I can't. I'm not. I'm a dad of girls. So it's hard for me to be like, data boys. They're very different. I think they take different things. But, like, when a dad says to me, oh, my daughter, like, she's going off to college. She's 18. We had her save up and buy, like, a terrible car. Like, she got a beater to go to college in. I think that is the dumbest thing ever. And here's why I think it's dumb. Why would I put my most precious thing in a car that's going to break down in a difficult neighborhood in Birmingham, Alabama? Why would I do that to Ellie? To teach her the lesson of the value of a dollar. She's 18. If she hasn't learned that lesson by then, it's too late. Like, I'm not going to be like, hey, we're going to risk because I want you to learn the value of a dollar. Like, that's insane to me. I couldn't wait to put Ellie into a car that worked well. Like, we got her a Toyota 4Runner. Like, we didn't ball out and get her a Range Rover. Like, there's always things you can think within. But, dude, that's one for me. That's so specific. I know it's very specific, but, like, I love the financial freedom to be able to say, hey. And by the way, she's a responsible person with her money. That wasn't. Like, it wasn't a make or break decision. But I think that's an example of where successful people I know don't go, well, we got them in a terrible car that'll break down because they need to learn a lesson. Like, they go, no. Like, we taught them how to be responsible with money their entire life. They're not spoiled. Imagine the head start I give her. Like. Like, one of our rules is, like, we'll buy you a car and we'll pay for college. And if you save up a certain amount of money, by the time you graduate from college, you get to keep the car. Because what happens Is by the time they graduate from college, they've got money saved up for an apartment, they've got a car that'll work for another eight to 10 years, and they have no college debt. Do you know the head start they've just received on life? Like, I. Like, I didn't have that. I graduated with. With debt. I graduated did. Like, I had a Mazda 626. We called the Mazda 666 because it was such a bad car. So, like, that's the kind of stuff that if you ask me about legacy, and I think anytime you talk about legacy, you end up talking about money and finances and things like that. I think they're connected. That's the stuff that Jenny and I talk about that it's like, how do we. How do we set them up now? Again, I could see an argument on the other side of, like, a boy needs to own an old truck and he needs to, you know, like, getting rough and tumble, whatever. Like, I could see. I could see definitely a conversation on both sides. But specifically for young women, putting them into cars that don't work as a life lesson is insane to me. And no one successful I know does that. They go, what? No. I have the money to pay for her to have a reliable car. Why am I going to gamble with her life for a life lesson? Like, that one's crazy to me. That's just kind of a. That's a hot take, if you will. I ended with a hot take.
- [66:52]
A
A super interesting. It's an interesting take to take, which is, what do the successful people do? And I feel like this is, you know, this is different for us. Like, my son, when he was eight years old, his mom didn't work. Like, I didn't work. And for my daughter, who's 8 years old, the youngest, I work and I really grapple with it. But I also am starting to really see the, like, how it's. It's building their worlds bigger. That's what I'm starting to see.
- [67:19]
B
Oh, my gosh. Oh, my.
- [67:21]
A
Yeah, they're getting to meet this person and that person, and they're. There's so many relationships there. And so I. I do. I loved that when you wrote this book, Do Over. You talk about that. Work is wonderful. Work can be great. Work can be wonderful. And I. And I feel like, I guess there's a lot of negativity toward it, like, work less and work is awful and try and retire early and.
- [67:42]
B
No. And you don't. You don't want. I mean, that's not the legacy you want to leave your kid. Is that, like, I couldn't wait to escape from work. Like, you're gonna do the thing to some degree for 40 to 50 years of your life. So why like. And the other thing is just as a freedom to every mom. If you're worried about it, you're already in a good spot. Like, it's one of those things where, like, if you're concerned about it, it means you care. Care. I'd be more. I'd be more concerned if you're like, I don't care at all. Like, I'm. I'm gonna work 90 hours a week and I don't care. I don't think there's any consequences. Like, if you're wrestling with it, the wrestling is a good sign. That's actually a healthy sign. I say that, that kind of thing to people all the time. Anybody that tells me, john, I'm worried I'm being too promotional with my book, I go, you're in a good spot then. Because the people who are too promotional never worry about that. They're just jamming their book down people's throats. Like, if you're concerned about it, you're already in a good spot. And so for me, I think that's part of it is, okay, how, you know, what am I, what's the example I'm sharing? And also how do I make my kids part of it? Like, I've written two books with my team.
- [68:45]
A
Well, that's what you've done. And that's. Yeah, I think that's why I wanted to ask you about it, because it's like, okay, well, you talked about, like, you travel. You know, you're traveling a lot. You talked about that just right now with Dave Ramsey. But you've talked about it other times too. You have all these speaking engagements. And so on one hand it's like, well, that in some ways, that's taking away from my family and taking away from my kids. But then on the other hand, you have daughters who were co authors as a high school, as high school students, early college. So, you know, I love the premise of the book. The heart of the book is the belief that work does not have to be miserable. That's what you wrote. It's beautiful. And I love watching you be a legacy leaver to your kids. You see it and it's something to emulate. And I know that you are like a tipper there, right? Like, you talk about how that would be a new thing, right, if you had a Beach house that everyone went to for Christmas. That would be a new thing in your family. So you're the one who's tipping that. And we're watching. We're watching John. And it's, It's. It's really inspiring and I really appreciate this. It went way over and I apologize.
- [69:44]
B
No, not at all. Not at all. I. It went over because I don't want dads to buy their daughter's terrible cars. I had to. I had to get that out there. I wasn't planning to say that, but that, that's my. That is a. Get your. Get your kid a reliable car. And if they don't know how to handle money by the time they're mean, don't act like that one thing is going to change everything. So, no, it went over because it was a fun conversation and we had a lot to talk about. And we. I feel like we teased the next episode because you. We only talked about legacy for like 10 minutes. And that's. Man, that's a big topic. And maybe the big topic. I'll probably get into that a little bit at the event. We're like, how do you. How do you be a remark like, we're thinking about having Ellie and McCray there because I think it's going to be the kind of event that parents bring their teenagers, too.
- [70:28]
A
I think you should do that because.
- [70:29]
B
I keep having parents reach out and go, my kids devouring your book. Like, the other day, I got to do a. I got to write a letter for a kid who got his Eagle Scout because his mom DM'd me on Instagram, was like, hey, my son loves your books. Just got his Eagle Scout. Would you mind sending a letter? And like, I love that. I might, like, I think that's a gigantic accomplishment. So I think we'll have Ellie and McCrae there. And I know you're doing the same thing. The kids get expanded worlds because they're part of it. The last thing I'd say is, I think when it comes to work or not work or all that kind of conversation, don't put up, like, hard walls between those things. Like, let your kids into those things and vice versa. And that's what you're doing. Like, your kids world's expansive because you're not going, no, that's work. And you're my kid, and I do kid stuff with you and work stuff over here. I think a more realistic, healthy, remarkable life is like, there's a lot of flow between the boxes. There's a lot of kind of Overlap where you go, like, man, this is a thing I care about and I'm going to share that with my family. And there's things I'll keep in the family and that's just for us. And there's other things that I'll go, hey, I think we should talk about this. Or hey, like, you know, and I noticed it as a dad. Where they'll go, hey, don't post that. Like if I take a photo they'll go, hey, don't post it. I go 100%. 100%. 100%. You know, like giving. Because they're now or stories I use. They're in their 20s now, so it's not like telling a story about a three year old. Like their twenties and like they got job. I've never posted their Instagram accounts because I'm like, I want them to be their own people. So there's always a, there's always a balance, but it's a fun wrestle and we are both very blessed to get to have conversations like this. And then the other thing is you're inspiring other moms who are asking the same question questions. I think that's what's fun. That's a, that's the boomerang. You don't know. Like, you don't know right now that there's a mom in Romania. That's like listening to this podcast. That's what's fun about the Internet. You can help a lot of people all at once and you probably won't know about 99 of them, but the 1% that you do get to meet are pretty special.
- [72:33]
A
And the dial is the answer. The dial is the answer.
- [72:35]
B
Yeah.
- [72:36]
A
It's not just cut and dry. You can dial up and dial back at different times. John, you used to have the ultimate 1000 hours outside job. I learned in this book that you are a mailman.
- [72:45]
B
Yeah, it's terrible. It was a terrible. I wish you should use that adjective. I was a terrible mailman. The one of the worst that's ever.
- [72:52]
A
Been, but ultimately ultimate for getting outside. And I hope that someday you're a poet.
- [72:58]
B
Yeah.
- [72:58]
A
I will pre order that book, John.
- [73:00]
B
I appreciate it. Yeah, I. I flirt with that all the time. I flirt with that all the time.
- [73:05]
A
Count me and I'll buy a bunch. Thank you so much for being here.
- [73:07]
B
Thanks for having me again.
- [73:09]
A
Here is a little bonus content. It is a post conversation conversation. And it is official. We will be attending remarkable youe on April 14th and 15th in Franklin, Tennessee. We got our tickets and so I hope that we can See you there. You can find out more information@johnacuff.com live and you can get $50 off your ticket through the end of the month, through the end of January with code 1, 000. All right. I'm sick and I cried.
- [73:40]
B
Yeah.
- [73:40]
A
This was fantastic.
- [73:42]
B
Yeah. Yeah. That was fun. That was super fun.
- [73:44]
A
What a book, John.
- [73:45]
B
We went a lot of places.
- [73:46]
A
We did a lot of place.
- [73:48]
B
That's probably my least selling book. Like, huh. Which kills me.
- [73:53]
A
Well, yeah, because it's so good. It's because I think a mom wouldn't think to pick it up. App.
- [73:58]
B
No, no, it's the marketing of it. Like, I learned so much about positioning and, like, I mean, but like, Seth Godin said, it was the greatest career book ever written. And it's still, like, it's such a good book. That's the one. But, dude, like. And you know what? Nobody. No companies wanted you to speak about it because it feels like how to quit your job. So I couldn't do any speaking engagements on it. Like, it was. That one is like, my. Everybody says, like, as an author, you always have, like, one book that you're like, like, oh, I wish this had a bigger impact. So hearing you talk about it was. That was super encouraging to me because I was like, oh, that's right.
- [74:32]
A
Like, it's a really, really, really good book. And you've got Jim Gaffigan and Michael Hyatt and Seth Goden all have endorsements on here. I really got so much out of it.
- [74:43]
B
Oh, good.
- [74:44]
A
But I do get it. I do get it, because it's not one that I would have picked up probably, you know, as a mom or.
- [74:50]
B
Hey, how is Cal Newport? Was that a fun conversation?
- [74:52]
A
Oh, gosh, yes. It was such a fun conversation. And we talked about his newest book, which is about productivity, Slow productivity. And it is a really cool. Yeah, is a really cool. He talked about that sometimes. I don't understand. He talked about how, like, his plan for his 20s was to establish himself in a certain way. And then his 30s and then in his 40s. It's about family. He's so intentional. And sometimes I'm like, how are people like that?
- [75:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
- [75:18]
A
I really like slow productivity.
- [75:20]
B
Who's coming up next? Who is your big gets that you're excited about?
- [75:24]
A
I've been stockpiling, so I've got John Deloney's I've been stockpiling episodes for the new year.
- [75:29]
B
So.
- [75:29]
A
John Deloney, Josh Axe.
- [75:31]
B
Yeah. I was on his show. He lives here Everybody lives there. John Deloney lives here.
- [75:36]
A
Yep. They all do. Carlos lives there. I don't necessarily have. I talked to this guy named Neil Passricha. Do you know him? He lives in Canada and he's got a podcast called Three Books, and he interviews people who have what are the three most influential books of your life? And he'll read all. It's really cool. He'll read all three of the books that they say and then they have a conversation about it. And he's had, like, Mel Robbins, he's had really big guests. And he told me that it's like the numbers, they really spike with those big guests. And I'm. I really have not had that. I mean, I've had. I mean, you. I mean, I would say you're. I mean, you're. You're top.
- [76:12]
B
But Cal, I would consider. Cal is a big.
- [76:15]
A
Cal, was it. Yeah. But slow productivity, I don't think is his seminal work. Really.
- [76:19]
B
Yeah. Deep work is his big one.
- [76:21]
A
Yeah. When you have a new book coming out, really have to sort of structure it around that one. So I had his other books, but we didn't talk about them that much. So it was a good episode, but I don't think it was as good as it could have been if we would have talked about the book that's more famous.
- [76:33]
B
I think you're at a size where, like, you're going to continue to get bigger and bigger guests.
- [76:38]
A
Like, I tell you what was one of our best episodes. Meg Meeker. And that's. Thanks.
- [76:43]
B
Oh, yeah. Well, she's right in your zone, dude.
- [76:46]
A
Okay. Wow.
- [76:47]
B
Yeah.
- [76:48]
A
Wow. Was she wonderful. And it was a really cool one, John, because she talked about how kids need God. God. And it was really impactful. Someone wrote to me and said they had read her book because she's like, you know, the kids need a rough house and they need to play. And she's like, they need God. That's what she said. She's like, I've worked with kids for 35 years and they do, and they're spiritual. And this lady wrote in and she said, I read her book years ago and I had written off God, but it gave me the kick in the pants to take my kid to church.
- [77:15]
B
Wow.
- [77:16]
A
Because I thought, well, she said that he needs God. And she said, it turned out I needed him too, dude.
- [77:21]
B
And I was really, win, win.
- [77:24]
A
Really? It's all win, win. It's really good.
- [77:26]
B
That's good.
- [77:27]
A
Yeah. No, I don't have. I mean, I'm not getting the really big names yet, but that's okay. Things Come in Time.
- [77:33]
B
Yeah. There's your soundtrack, dude. That's why you're so. Things Come In Time is a soundtrack.
- [77:39]
A
There's my first one.
- [77:41]
B
If I spent 10 minutes with you, I guarantee I'd hear 10. But, yeah, things Come in time.
- [77:46]
A
I'm gonna listen for him. Yeah, I'm listening for him. That's my first one, John.
- [77:50]
B
Yeah. There we go. Go.
- [77:51]
A
All right, John. Tell Jenny we said hi.
- [77:54]
B
Will. Love you guys. See you.