1KHO 431: Do a Few Things Well and Do Them in Season | Steve Hoffman, A Season for That

Summary

Summary of Episode 1KHO 431: "Do a Few Things Well and Do Them in Season | Steve Hoffman, A Season for That"

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
Host: Jenny Yurich
Guest: Steve Hoffman
Release Date: February 14, 2025

---

Introduction

In the inaugural episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Jenny Yurich welcomes author Steve Hoffman to discuss his memoir, "A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France." The conversation delves into Steve's decade-long journey of writing, his family's transformative six-month stay in a small village in Southern France, and the profound lessons learned about community, culture, and personal growth.

Guest Background and Book Launch

Jenny begins by sharing her personal connection to Steve and his wife, Mary Jo Hoffman, highlighting how Mary Jo's book inspired her own creative endeavors. She expresses excitement over the coinciding book releases of Mary Jo and Steve, emphasizing the harmonious weaving of their narratives.

Steve Hoffman recounts the arduous ten-year process of writing his memoir, detailing the challenges of meeting manuscript deadlines while balancing his dual careers as a tax preparer and food writer. He humorously shares the tension between him and Mary Jo, where she threatened to publish her book first if he didn't complete his on time, leading to the eventual synchronized launch of their works in mid-2024.

Integrating into Southern France

The heart of Steve's memoir revolves around his family's immersion into a small village named Otinac in the Languedoc region of Southern France. Jenny and Steve discuss the initial expectations versus the reality of living in an 800-person community, describing it more as an extended family than a typical village.

Steve reflects on the pivotal moment when Mary Jo challenged him to step out of his comfort zone to better integrate into the community. This push led him to engage more deeply with the locals, fostering meaningful relationships and learning to navigate cultural nuances.

Notable Quote:
"This was your vision. This is your dream. We're here. Help us be French with you." — Steve Hoffman [17:10]

Cultural Differences Explored

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the stark cultural contrasts between American and French lifestyles, particularly in areas such as education, parenting, and social interactions.

• Education System: Steve highlights the French approach to schooling, where children have extended lunch breaks, minimal homework, and a structured yet relaxed daily routine. This system fosters family time and reduces the pressure of extracurricular activities common in the U.S.

Notable Quote:
"Parenting is about being around a lot, because you can't dictate when that kid is going to be ready to bond." — Steve Hoffman [37:06]

• Culinary Practices: The conversation delves into the French emphasis on homemade meals and traditional cooking methods, such as making vinaigrette from homemade vinegar and enjoying multi-course meals that encourage conversation and family bonding.

Notable Quote:
"Salad dressing in France is almost always a vinaigrette. It's almost always oil, vinegar, or some acid." — Steve Hoffman [48:06]

• Language Formalities: Steve explains the intricacies of the French language, particularly the use of formal (vous) vs. informal (tu) pronouns, and how this affects social relationships and friendships within the community.

Notable Quote:
"Relationships are taken longer to develop in France, but when you're in, you're kind of in forever." — Steve Hoffman [45:16]

Impact on Family and Personal Growth

Living in France profoundly impacted Steve and his family's dynamics. The slower-paced lifestyle and emphasis on family meals allowed for deeper connections and a more cohesive family unit. Steve also shares personal growth experiences, such as learning to cook for his family's tastes rather than aiming for culinary perfection, thereby prioritizing togetherness over individual accolades.

Notable Quote:
"The reality always falls a little bit short. And that's where you have to make the decision, do I still want this on its terms?" — Steve Hoffman [24:21]

Challenges and Realizations

Despite the enriching experiences, the family faced challenges, including initial struggles to fit into the tight-knit community and adapting to unexpected cultural norms. Steve candidly discusses the emotional growth that came from these challenges, emphasizing the importance of humility and openness to change.

Towards the end of the episode, Steve reveals a personal setback—his home burning down a month prior to the podcast recording. He reflects on this event as an opportunity for rebuilding and intentional living, reinforcing the themes of resilience and renewal that permeate his memoir.

Notable Quote:
"It's going to be an opportunity as much as it is a loss, because we get to start asking ourselves, okay, we're back to square one." — Steve Hoffman [51:09]

Reflections and Lessons Learned

Jenny and Steve conclude the episode by summarizing the key takeaways from Steve's memoir. They discuss the value of embracing unexpected outcomes, the significance of nature and outdoor play in childhood development, and the enduring impact of deliberate, seasonally aligned living.

Final Quote:
"One has the time, one takes." — Steve Hoffman [53:53]
Steve shares this French saying, highlighting the importance of prioritizing meaningful activities over busyness—a central theme in his family's journey.

Closing Thoughts

Jenny expresses profound appreciation for Steve's insights and the transformative experiences detailed in his memoir. She encourages listeners to reflect on their own use of time and consider how embracing flexibility and community can enhance personal and familial growth.

Final Quote by Guest:
"It's a beautiful stretch of time because we work together so often that we got to be there and present and in their company." — Steve Hoffman [32:25]

---

Conclusion

Episode 1KHO 431 offers an intimate glimpse into Steve Hoffman's memoir, showcasing the profound effects of seasonal living, cultural immersion, and intentional time management on personal and family development. Through candid conversations and heartfelt reflections, listeners are inspired to reevaluate their own lifestyles and embrace the timeless benefits of spending more hours outside.

Transcript

[Angel Reese]

Huddle up.

[Jenny Urch]

It's me, Angel Reese. You can't beat the postgame burger and fries, right? Know what else you can't beat? The Angel Reese special. Let's break it down. My favorite, barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and the drink. It's gonna be a high C for me. Sound good? All you have to do to get it is beat me in a one on one. I'm just playing get the Angel Reef Special at McDonald's now. Ba da ba ba ba.

[Angel Reese]

I participate in restaurants for a limited time.

[Jenny Urch]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And I have had this really cool thing happen this year. Mary Jo Hoffman, she's changed my life. She sent me this book that she created and it's just gorgeous. It's one of the most gorgeous books I own called still based off of this practice, one a day practice of a daily practice of creativity. And so she sends me this book. I'm like, I had no idea it's going to change my life. And then she was like, oh, my husband wrote a book too that was published right around the same time which turned out to be wild. It's called A Season for that. It's a memoir. And the author, the husband of Mary Jo, Steve Hoffman, is here with us. Welcome.

[Angel Reese]

Thank you, Jenny. It's great. It's super great to be here. I just listened to your episode with Mary Jo. So I'm all, I'm all prepped.

[Jenny Urch]

It was really good.

[Angel Reese]

It was really good.

[Jenny Urch]

The title of it is about returning to our child passions, our childhood passions. And it truly has changed my life. And I, I guess I wasn't expecting it. And that's sometimes a really interesting thing when you're like, oh, you know, she does nature photography. How cute, how beautiful.

[Angel Reese]

Right?

[Jenny Urch]

And I was like, no, no, this, this will. I'm 41 days into playing the piano.

[Angel Reese]

I've been following. It's amazing.

[Jenny Urch]

I never did. I, you know, I would play here and there.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

And so the, the power of that, that little bit of dailiness. So then the joke is that you come out with this memoir at the same time, your books launch at the same time. But it wasn't supposed to be that way. No, I was like, oh, they timed this so well. What happened? I mean, yours was the one that was kind of running late a little bit.

[Angel Reese]

Oh, not just a little bit. Yeah, no, I I had a. I had an original deadline. I finally, after. So this took me 10 years to write. I finally, seven or eight years in, got an editor and an agent finally, and had an initial manuscript deadline of January of 2022. Blew right through that. I had maybe half a book ready by then. So then the next deadline was January 2023. Because, you know, I'm also a tax preparer. So I'm this weird hybrid tax preparer slash food writer. And once January's done, I'm in tax season, so I have no choice. So I had to push it back another year. The next year, in January 23rd, I did turn in a manuscript, but my assignment was to turn in 90,000 words, and I turned in 180,000 words. So essentially got told, we're not even going to look at this, Steve, until you cut 50,000 words. So of my year that I'd spent honing and polishing and thinking I was onto something, and I got told, nope, you got to cut 50 grand right off the top before we'll even look at it. So that is what led to my publishing my book in June, July, July 9, two months after Mary Jo's May 1 publication date. And about two years ago, my best friend Eric had sidled up to Mary Jo in our kitchen after being through this. He had never known me when I wasn't writing this book. And he sidled up to Mary Jo in our kitchen and said, mary Jo, if you publish a book before Steve, I will kill you. And of course, in one year, she published her book after my 10 years of agony and ecstasy. But that's also how she is. She's an incredibly straight thinking and disciplined person. So I benefit from that enormously as well.

[Jenny Urch]

I think it turned out amazing. You published the same year. What a special thing. And what's really cool about it, Steve, the way that it worked out is the books, they weave together. So you're talking about her still project. You go to France, you spend six months in France. This is a memoir of that season. The title is A Season for that Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. And you're talking about her, about how other people are bringing her birds nests. And so I actually really like it. I think that the timing of that. Yeah, because if her book wasn't out, there wouldn't be as much context for the way that that helped you build community.

[Angel Reese]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Urch]

And some of that was some of my favorite parts in the book. Actually, my favorite line was where it's, you know, you're trying to Fit in there. Right. And this is feeling like an odd thing that, you know, you're carrying around dead birds and, you know, you've got all this nature in your pockets all the time. People are like, what's a blog? You're in this small village and someone comes and says they bring you something for the first time. And they're like, for le blog or.

[Angel Reese]

Whatever, they would say, yes, yes, for LeBlanc. Yep.

[Jenny Urch]

I was like, oh, this is great. Okay. So what. What's really intriguing to me, one of the things I love about you and Mary Jo is you have approached your life in a way that incorporates a lot of loves, a lot of passions, a lot of interests. So, you know, she's like this engineer, but not like a regular engineer. She's like.

[Angel Reese]

She was an aerospace engineer. Yeah, aeronautical. Astronautical engineer. Literally. A rocket scientist.

[Jenny Urch]

Yes, yes. She's a rocket scientist who takes photos of dead birds and birds nests and willows and all of these different things. And then you are a tax guy who now has written a memoir about cooking odd things in France and bringing your family for six months. What I'm getting out of it is that you're not allowing yourself to be in a box. You're like, I'm going to make decisions that I'm not just a tax guy and she's just not a rocking scientist. We are a lot more than that. So can you talk about how do you become a person like that?

[Angel Reese]

Yeah. First, you know, Mary Jo is. I couldn't do what I done without Mary Jo as an influence. I tend to be somebody who defers to other people's opinions. I tend to try to figure out what the rules are before I step forward and then try to follow those rules. Mary Jo is much more of a rebel. She grew up as a kind of semi feral child in the woods and lakes of a suburban, at that point, ex urban Twin Cities in Minnesota. And she's always somehow given herself permission to imagine her life into existence however she sees fit. I've learned a huge amount by watching that happen. But she's also helped to give me permission to do that myself as well. I could never have dreamed this big, really, without her influence. But the other thing I think I would say that we've done together, although I think, again, she's been the primary mover, the primary instigator is you talk about how we do lots of. We have lots of loves and we do, but the important element to being able to practice those loves is saying no to a lot of things. As well. And we've gotten better and better at that. Maybe not. And I would have said yes to even more. And we've had a number of, you know, conversations. Mary Jo, sort of my truth teller. And there have been times when I was going to go off into left field on something that I was fascinated with, but that life wasn't going to allow me to do without sacrificing other things that meant more to me. And so we have had a kind of ongoing conversation about what's meaningful to us, what are we excited about, what do we want to do, and where are we going. And that has been a process, both of embracing our loves, but also of editing our lives, sometimes sort of ruthlessly.

[Jenny Urch]

I do love that you brought up the feral living too, because I had notes about that. I think that that's just a piece to consider. She had a childhood in the woods. Unsupervised summers in the woods, lakes and meadowish empty lots. She got to decide for herself what shape her life should take and ignore as completely as she wished. What others might opine. That's a new word for me. Others might opine openly or secretly on the subject. And I thought that's kind of powerful. You know, we've got a bunch of listeners who are letting their kids run amok to a degree. And what that does is that has long term ramifications on how you approach life and then maybe how you might affect your spouse or your kids or your family circle and how they approach their lives.

[Angel Reese]

I'm just a feeling of autonomy, a feeling as if your life is in your control. If you're running free to some extent during those years, I absolutely believe everything that you're doing. This idea of letting kids run and letting them hurt themselves occasionally and fall down and scrape their knees and have to problem solve and have to negotiate with other kids. I just think it's invaluable and it's missing everywhere right now. And I think Mary Jo is a prime example. Here's somebody who, you know, grew up. She was not growing up in such a way that it was obvious she was going to become a Stanford grad and become an aerospace engineer. But if you get to pick the rules of your own life, then that's not out of the question. But if she hadn't grown up that way, I think she maybe would have succumbed to some expectations that she didn't let herself fall prey to.

[Jenny Urch]

And then you might just stick in your one lane. You might just do the one thing, and that was probably like, was Like, I was tickled. I'm like to read someone who's a tax preparer and a food writer and, you know, and, and an author and you're writing a memoir. I just got into memoir memoirs recently, possibly this year, I would have more said I read biographies. I read a memoir from my friend that I can't remember her name. Her name is Molly Stillman and the book is if I Don't Laugh, I'll Cry. And it was her memoir and then her mother had written a memoir. And so it took me down this path of I really like them. I like this little bits of story that you get. It tends to be in a condensed period of time. You know, you don't need the whole picture. You get this. And so this is a memoir and I. I'm really enjoying this genre of books. You went to France for six months, but it stemmed from a sixth grade interest, which I was pretty blown away by, that you had stuck with. Now, you didn't end up in Paris, you end up in this other village. But my question is, Steve, what if you wouldn't have taken that sixth. You said it was a sixth grade summer class in which I discovered that my mouth and throat accepted fairly naturally the demands put on them by French pronunciation. Well, what was the class? And also what do you think might have happened if you wouldn't have taken it?

[Angel Reese]

Great question, and nobody's ever asked me that. I think I still would have gravitated to French because the sixth grade summer class was just one of those community ed summer classes. And I found that I was in a group of other Minnesota kids and I was able to pronounce these words easily without really even thinking about it. But there was still going to be another chance to take this on. And that happened in seventh grade in what was then junior high, not middle school, where you were forced to choose a language. And our choices in Roseville, Minnesota were Spanish, German or French. You know, I knew German was my ancestry, but I didn't think it was a pretty language. Everybody else was taking Spanish and I like to be a little bit different and I thought French was beautiful. So I would still, I think, have taken French. I think I still would have discovered a knack for it. But I was really a somewhat indifferent French student for a lot of my school years, up until I took the junior year off of college and went and lived in Paris. And at that point I'd had a lot of years of getting rules in my head and having a decent vocabulary but not being able to put it all together. And what happened in Paris was that I learned to speak French conversationally, semi fluently, but also I fell in love with this Persona that I inhabited while I was walking the streets of Paris as a young man. And so I fell in love with France French and kind of myself as a. The new version of myself all at once. And that whole package is really what then turned me into a lover of France, then the French language and the French, the country of France and its culture for the rest of my adulthood.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, it's definitely interesting. Like, you know, you think if you move, you get a chance to sort of recreate yourself or try something on, try something different, but very different if you're in a place where the language is different and the culture is different. So you go when you're 21 and you really perfect your French, it was something that was really important to you.

[Angel Reese]

Yep.

[Jenny Urch]

You said you would rehearse entire multi sentence paragraphs in your head. You know, you're not wanting to have any fault with it. You're wanting to make sure you're really good at the conversational part and you're comfortable with it. And that's it. You're 21. Then a very long time later, you come back with your children for six months and you don't end up in Paris, you end up in some seemingly kind of random village. 800 people. I didn't even know how to pronounce it. And you said it wasn't very pretty. But you're hoping to be a, become a part of this little village in the course of six months. What's the story there? How did, what is the village, how do you pronounce it?

[Angel Reese]

It's called Otinac.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, yeah, no, I would have butchered that. I would not have ended anywhere near that.

[Angel Reese]

Otinoc in the Languedoc region, which is southern France, so it's Mediterranean France. If you look at a map of France, the Rhone river basically divides southern France into two in a way similar to the way the Mississippi divides the US in two. And if you're on the east side of the Rhone river, you're in Provence. And if you're on the west side of the Rhone river, you're in Languedoc. And Languedoc is more, more blue collar, it's more working class, it's less touristed, there's less money. And we chose it because we knew we were going to be there for a fall semester and we were coming from Minnesota and wanted somewhere warm, so we wanted to be in the south. We wanted to be in the Long Dock because we could afford it. We're a middle class family. We couldn't afford to live in very heavily touristed Provence. And then at some point, it was a question of kind of. We had, we had spent other times in France in villages that were around a thousand people, and we had concluded that that was a good number, that it was small enough that it wasn't going to be in all the tourist books, that we're going to be surrounded by other people speaking English, but not so small that we were going to feel isolated. And so we were looking in a range of this, probably 700 to 1500 people. And at that point, you know, it was pre verbal, pre Airbnb. And we just sent a bunch of emails and the first one that came back was this landlord. And we had done a lot of kind of improvisational travel before and we sort of liked that. We liked challenging ourselves and arriving in a place without having all the answers and then kind of using our, our wits to get by. So that was part of the plan, the semi randomness of it. But when we arrived, it really was not what we had expected. And additionally, you know, I think it occurred to me later than Mary Jo that we were also asking two kids to operate at the extremes of their capabilities in a foreign place, in a foreign language and go to school. So we had to kind of sweep up the pieces a bit after we arrived and looked around and realized this was not what we were expecting.

[Jenny Urch]

I love the phrase improvisational travel. I think, like, what the book does is it challenges me to think like, oh, could I do a different thing? Or could I step out of what I normally think I should do it, even knowing that it might not look like how I thought it was going to look. Because it turns out that I'm sure, like, you're grateful for the experience and you did end up becoming a part of that village. I was wondering, like, you know, it's only six months and are you going to be able to build relationships? Your kids knew how to speak French because they had gone to a French immersion school.

[Angel Reese]

That helped a lot.

[Jenny Urch]

But, like, how well are you going to fit into 800 people? I mean, that is a tight knit community.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah, that's very insightful. Because it was so small that it was like a family. So it was like kind of walking into a living room more than it was just arriving in a village. There's an extent to which we might have integrated faster at a slightly larger place because everybody Knew each other. And, you know, my. Our friend next door neighbor Jean Luc, mentions at one point that this is like an 800 person family.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. And when people have an extended 800 person family, they tend to not need anybody else.

[Angel Reese]

Exactly.

[Jenny Urch]

And so that can be a tricky situation to be in. And you go to this vil and you have this. You're kind of grumpy about it, really. I mean, you're saying, you know, this isn't what I expected. I want, you know, I wanted to be a Parisian. Here we are. And Mary Jo says to you, make it count.

[Angel Reese]

Right?

[Jenny Urch]

This is your vision. This is your dream. You say it's important to you. We're here. Help us be French with you. I'm asking you to do what you've always said you want to do. And you were like, no, but this isn't what I wanted. I wanted bookstores and I wanted cafes. This isn't the trip. This isn't the village. This isn't the climate. This isn't the food that I was expecting. How did that conversation, though, change things for you? Because it did seem like there was like some crabbiness. But then it did change. And all of a sudden you're like, no, we're. We're going to take what we've been given.

[Angel Reese]

That was the initial turning point of the story, but also of the experience. It was Mary Jo essentially saying, this isn't working. We can't do this the way we've always done it before because we're here with kids this time and they need more from us. And because you speak French, Steve, and I don't, they need more from you than you're doing so far. And it kind of set me back on my heels, but also had me rethink what my priorities were. And it was kind of a humbling moment as well. And so that really set me on the course to at least start investigating. Okay, what does it actually mean to integrate into this place? And what it meant in the end was me getting out of my comfort zone. I wasn't going to get to just kind of walk around and do all the things that I was already good at, which is having French conversations and understanding the culture and sitting in cafes and being sort of, you know, sophisticated and, you know, ordering my coffee and my glass of wine and smoking a cigarette and, you know, I had to get out of my comfort zone. And that meant, like, looking foolish occasionally or asking questions that made it clear that I didn't know the answer or engaging in conversations that went on long enough that I was going to reach, I was going to start reaching the end of my abilities to maintain a conversation in that language. So it was from my perspective, it was a turning point. It was enormously helpful. I've said multiple times in multiple other look, you know, other times in talking about this book that I'm the narrator of the book. But Mary Jo is really the hero of the book and I don't know if you sense that too. But her truth telling, her willingness to push me into uncomfortable places, not because she was being mean or mean spirited, but because she had a vision for the trip that she knew I wanted to, but I wasn't behaving in a way that was going to get us there and to risk sort of making me feel defensive, making me maybe get a little bit angry, get to be reactive. I mean, she, those conversations that she was willing to have with me took courage on her part and it could have backfired. I look at that conversation as one of the fruits of a 30 plus year marriage of equals where you have to somebody has to take the reins back and forth every once in a while. And every once in a while somebody has to tell an uncomfortable truth. And you have to have been together long enough to know that you can trust the person who's telling you what you don't want to hear to be telling the truth as they see it, and to have proven their wisdom in the past so that you can believe what they're saying even though it's not what you want to hear right now, and then change your behavior as a result.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, it was a pivotal time.

[Angel Reese]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay parents, let's be honest. Raising a family today feels like navigating a maze of unhealthy options. Between all the hidden sugars, artificial ingredients and misleading labels, it's hard to know what's actually good for our kids and not just a marketing gimmick. That is why I love Love Love Thrive Market. It's like having a personal guide to healthier living for my entire family. Thrive Market makes it simple to find trusted, family friendly brands without spending hours in the grocery store. From snacks and school lunches to pantry stables, everything they offer is 100% non GMO and with their on site filters you can shop based on what matters most to your family. Low sugar, gluten free, organic or high protein options are all just a click away for us. I love using the low sugar and organic filters to find better snack options for when we are on a hike or for packing lunches to take on a picnic. The Healthy Swaps scanner in the Thrive Market app is also amazing. Here's how it works. Scan a product that you're used to buying and it instantly recommends cleaner, healthier alternatives. We've made some great swaps. Instead of snacks filled with junk, we're stocking up on brands like Siete Chips, Annie's Organic Crispy Snack Bars and Chomps Beef Sticks. Are you ready for a junk free start to 2025? Head over to thrivemarket.com 1000hours and you'll get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V market.com 1000hours thrive market.com 1000hours who doesn't love the good things in life? Even though I enjoy a little luxury, it doesn't mean I can always afford it. Until I discovered Quint. Quint is my go to for when I'm trying to step up my luxury essentials game but doing so at affordable prices. Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50 which I got and absolutely love washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry. The best part? All Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. One of my favorite things is the all black puffer jacket I got. It's super cute and most important, nice and warm for these cold winter days here in Michigan. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside birthdays, anniversaries, weddings. Whatever the occasion, it just got a little more personal with meaningful photo gifts from Shutterfly.

[Angel Reese]

Add a silly photo to a gold.

[Jenny Urch]

Rimmed mug for your bestie. Put your sweet puppy on a cozy fleece blanket for your gift your husband a desktop plaque featuring all the kids. Enjoy 40% off orders over 29 with code pod40utterfly.com and make something that means something and it all relates together because I think that most adults can relate to having dreams and wanting this, that or the other thing and not being able to fully experience that you're getting bits and pieces, it's not exactly what you wanted. So I'm like, in this very small example, I read Mary Jo's book and I was like, look, I would like to play the piano a little bit every day. And I sit down every day and it's 20 minutes, which is a piddly amount of time to play an instrument. And it's not exactly what I would love, it's what I have. And I think that the book and her movement too, which is like just taking these nature photos. It's like sometimes even though it's not what we expected or thought we wanted, it can still be enough and it can still be impactful. And I think that's a really powerful message. You know, do you want this or not? That's a really good question. Do you want this or not? Even though it maybe doesn't look exactly like what you thought it would look. And I think that can be a life changing question to ask yourself or to have someone else ask you when you're in a moment of feeling a little put out by outcomes that aren't exactly what you expected.

[Angel Reese]

100%. I mean, I think the question is, do you want this on its terms? Yeah, right. It's not. You don't always get what you want on your terms, but you can get what you want on the terms of what you've taken on. And that's part of what happened in this trip, which was at some point I came to the realization that this was a dream trip. We're going to spend six months in southern France. Right. It sounds like the most romantic thing imaginable, but every time you dream like that, almost every time, if you're really honest about it, you reach a point where it's not a dream anymore, it's a reality. And the reality always falls a little bit short. And that's where you have to make the decision, do I still want this on its terms? And we in the end, kind of. Or I mostly started dropping my preconceptions about what I thought this should be or what I wanted it to be and started listening to the place. And once I did that from a stance more of humility and wonder, then the place opened up and it became beyond what I would have initially dreamed. My initial dream for the. For the. The trip fell far short of what it turned into once we accepted the place for what it was.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, I love that because it's true. It was not bookstores and cafes. It was praying mantises and wine grapes and tractors and.

[Angel Reese]

Yep.

[Jenny Urch]

Cooking weird things and the kids at this. Thriving at the school that they went to for six months. So, yeah, that's. It's a really deep message that comes through in this memoir, A Season for that. This was something that I never thought of. Steve. We haven't done too much travel like this, but, you know, you talked about how you're there and you've got this different expectation of yourself with the language. And Mary Jo comes and she doesn't really know the language, and yet she's forming these different connections and you're kind of like, what the heck? You know, like you said, she's a hero of the story, but. But more so, she's assimilating in a way that you wouldn't expect, partially due to this language barrier that you didn't have. And it made me think, what are things that we might learn about our spouse, about our kids in a travel type situation like that, where you step outside of your culture, that we wouldn't learn about them in another context? Just staying at home?

[Angel Reese]

I think, I mean, I think one of the benefits of travel is that it puts you in uncomfortable positions. It's similar to, you know, my. My learning to write this memoir. I was both learning. I was both writing this memoir and learning to write the memoir at the same time. And what I was really learning about was what it means to tell a story. And what a story is mostly made up of is decisions that a person or a character is forced to make. And when people make decisions, you learn things about that person. So you put a, you know, if it's fiction, you put a character in a dilemma where they have two options and they're either equally delightful or equally awful, and they have to choose one or the other. And what we get as the reader or the observer of a film, the benefit we get from watching that character make that decision is that we learn what their values are. And I think, taking this back to your question about travel, part of what happens when you travel, or just simply when you challenge yourself, your family, your kids, your friendships, you reach these moments of decision making and what. The decisions that get made determine who that person is. And, and either can deepen your relationship or can make you realize that the relationship wasn't what you thought it was. So I would say that what came out of this and what could come out of this for almost anybody is put somebody in a challenging situation, force them to have to make some decisions that aren't comfortable for them, and you're going to know them Better. We left this as a family that was far more cohesive. We learned in some sense how to live together as a family by being together in these circumstances and by being together a lot every day. And a lot of that came from being uncomfortable and then watching, okay, what happens when these kids are uncomfortable? How do they, how do they handle it?

[Jenny Urch]

I thought it was neat because you talk about how you were pretty prepared with the language, but then talked about the assimilation into the village was, you know, a little different than you were expecting. And yet I felt like your history led you to that point. So you're talking about, I like people's work histories just because it's important to remember that most people don't have some, like, straight shot to success. So you said Mary Jo was linear. She just goes for it. But you took up tax preparation at the end of several different types of jobs. So you had been a proofreader, a translator, a handyman, a real estate broker, a manager of several rental properties. And then sort of this random suggestion from your mother in law was, well, you could be a tax preparer. And this is a whole part of the book because it's seasonal living. That's part of it. Tax season is a season. But also you had a community that almost was similar in size. You're like, I've got these 500 people and I know about them. And I hadn't really thought about that. If you're someone who does other people's taxes, you do know a lot about them. You said, I know, you know, I know their names, obviously, but like, if they've been divorced, if they file bankruptcy, you know, if they have certain prognosis, have they gone through chemo? Are they in aa? You know, are they on Prozac? Are they in hospice? Has anybody passed away in their family in this last year? And I thought, well, that was actually kind of a cool preparation to go to an 800 person village.

[Angel Reese]

That's a really interesting insight. I have not had anybody make that connection. And I think it's super cool. I think you're right. I also think that, again, a lot of people sort of laugh when you first say tax preparer, food writer. But there is really, as you just mentioned, there's a remarkable intimacy to the tax office. It has given me insight into how 500 people live their lives. And I get to check in with them once a year. And I think that has not only made me a more maybe empathetic person, but it's also made me a better writer because it's grounded me in real lived experiences rather than going off in my writing studio and isolating myself and trying to write beautiful words. That kind of writing is less and less interesting to me. It's kept me grounded in the stuff of people's real lives, and I'm actually really grateful for it. I have. Mary Joanne, I've asked ourselves at some point, you know, if you. If you could stop doing taxes, would you. And I don't know, at this point, I think at some point, possibly, you know, if I could write full time and really didn't have to make money doing taxes, maybe. But I also think there would be a part of me, even as a writer, that would miss my tax business.

[Jenny Urch]

It's like you gave her a lot of credit for a lot of these relationships, but I felt like you were just as prepared for it and you just needed to find out, you know.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah. And I. Well, and the other thing that bears out what you just said is doing taxes for 500 people means you've had to interact and counsel and speak to and hear the stories of a lot of people in a lot of different circumstances from every socioeconomic stratum of society. And yes, that certainly, again, that certainly prepares you to talk to almost anybody about almost anything and not be intimidated by. By wealth or foreignness or difficult circumstances or so. Yeah. To that extent, that's also sort of a surprising benefit of the tax office, is it teaches you to be sociable in an effective way.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. Yeah. And here you are in this village. I loved the seasonality part of the book because the seasonality came up a lot of different times. You're talking about being off season for work, but in season for living your dreams and just seasons coming and going, you really were only there for a short period of time. You didn't even experience all four seasons, but you did experience some of seasonal living in terms of, like, crop rotation and agriculture. So I. I loved that. I thought that that was a beautiful thread throughout the whole thing. And it's also a thread through Mary Jo's stuff.

[Angel Reese]

That's what I was just going to say. Yes.

[Jenny Urch]

You know, every. Every five days, every two weeks, like, things are changing slightly. And her whole book is built on seasons. So I just. I wanted to say that I love that. And coming from Minnesota, we're from Michigan, that seasons are such a part of your life, even if you don't think about it too much. It's like, it's the rhythm of the way that you've grown up and. And you live. So I Wanted to say that there was no question there. But because there's a lot of other things to talk about, I just want to tell you that I really like that. I think the cultural differences thing was fascinating. I was super entertained by it and I learned a lot. So one of the things is food is a big thing and you show up and they're like, okay, what are we going to eat? And there's no ketchup and the kids want ice. And you're like, this isn't how it goes here. They don't serve ice. And then Mary Jo is like, I want cheeseburger with fries. Three, she says three. Trois and then ice. How do you say ice in French glass? Yeah. And you're like, no, no, no, we're not asking for ice. So talk to us about some of the cultural differences that really stuck out, especially bringing kids along.

[Angel Reese]

Well, so there was that, There was the, okay, I have an agenda here, right? I'm bringing my family to the place that I love and I want them to all fall in love with this place so that we can then come back more often. I mean, that's really. It's very self serving in a lot of ways. So there's an extent to which I'm working against myself because what I most want for them to do is to fall in love with this place so that I can keep coming back to France with them. And yet by being such a purist about what it means to be in France, I'm actually turning them off, you know, and making them resent the France that I'm trying to introduce them to. That's sort of what's happening in that opening scene with the cheeseburgers and the ice. But in terms of cultural differences, there were some really fun ones. I think, honestly, one of the most interesting was school there. And I talk about it in the book, but there's even some elements of it that are in the book. But the way that school is handled there is really kind of beautiful. You go in the morning and then there's an hour and a half set aside for lunch. So you take your classes and then you can either go to the canteen with your friends and then go play, or you can go home. And a lot of kids go home. So you send your kids off in the morning, they come home for lunch, you make them lunch, they hang around for an hour and a half, they go back for the afternoon, and they come back again. And by that time, often you've got dinner ready or dinner in the process of being prepared. They also really emphasize getting most of the schoolwork done in class so that there's not a huge amount of homework, so that when kids are done, they can be done. We really ended up falling very hard for that rhythm because what it did is it put us at the table together twice a day, at least five days a week. That was also part of my sort of cooking education was, okay. I started off wanting to cook like a French chef, and nobody was interested in my take on French chef meals. And by the end of the trip, I learned that, no, actually, what this is all about really, is cooking things that the people you love love to eat. And what that does is not necessarily sort of stroke your ego because you've made beautiful food. What that does is it keeps everybody at the table longer. And then suddenly you start having some of those conversations that you don't have if they are bolting their food and then running off to the iPad or doing whatever else they're going to do. So I really think there was school integrated nicely with the family life there in a way that I think American school days don't. And then also the American obsession with just doing so many things, having so much structured time outside of school, where you have the, you know, the music lessons with the teacher, you've got the soccer camps and games and traveling, and, you know, we're all trying to turn our kids into beautiful applicants to Ivy League schools. And at some point, we're never with them. And I really feel as if one of the lessons of this trip was that parenting is about being around a lot, because you can't dictate when that kid is going to be ready to bond. You can't guarantee that you're going to be able to bond between 6 and 9pm at the end of a workday. It just doesn't happen. The kid decides when that bonding moment happens. And they decided on their terms and on their timeline. One of the things we really took away from this is that it was a beautiful stretch of time because we work together so often that we got to be there and present and in their company for some times that they reached out to us that we would have missed if we hadn't been together so frequently and for such long stretches.

[Jenny Urch]

It'S hard to even imagine. So what a cool thing to live through. Steve, I just spoke at a school board meeting in the district that I grew up at, that my brother teaches at, and my nieces attend, and they, you know, they drop their recess to 20 minutes. There's a 45 minute period that encompasses lunch and lunch recess. And it's so short. And I could imagine that, you know, 90 minutes, day after day, that you get into the habit of slowing down.

[Angel Reese]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Urch]

And the child would be walking back and forth to school, so they're outside. It's just a slowing. And that's a really interesting thing to experience firsthand that many of us don't. You said the lunches, if they ate at school, were completely different. No pizza, hamburger, French fries, Diet Coke. What are they eating for lunch in France?

[Angel Reese]

They're eating in general, and I think still, but certainly when we were there, they're eating, you know, what would pass for a decent restaurant meal. They were having a three to five course meal. They would have vegetables first and they didn't get the dessert. If they didn't eat their vegetables, they would have then a main meal, but a pick from, you know, not three proteins, but from a really vast variety of possible dishes. I mean, they were eating mutton stew, they were eating chickpeas, they were eating pan sauteed fish. And then they would have a cheese. And so part of the idea is that they're educating not just the mind, but also they're educating their kids into the culture so that they will have, you know, one of the 300 and whatever kinds of cheese that France makes, and they're learning about, about the cheeses and, and the culinary culture of their. Of their country. And then they would have dessert after that. And the dessert was often just seasonal fruit, but it was, you know, it was not Snickers bars. It was not something out of a vending machine. And it trained them in the leisureliness of the French meal. And what that encourages is conversation. Again, it's not everything served on one plate. You eat it and then you go. It's served in courses. And between those courses, you have to interact with people. You can't just sit there and stare. And then that, that then extends to both family meals and meals with other people outside the family, where the, the time it takes to serve the meal in courses requires that you interact and converse. And it just becomes. That becomes a part of the meal. And, and when you get used to it, it's really beautiful. And the, you know, the, the four different items plopped on a plate starts feeling weird.

[Jenny Urch]

I love that. And do you pronounce your daughter's name? Eva or Eva?

[Angel Reese]

Eva. Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

So Eva went to a friend's house and they cooked a meal together. So it's just a part of everyone's everyday life.

[Angel Reese]

Ryan Reynolds Here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at Mint Mobile.

[Jenny Urch]

This is a message from sponsor Intuit. TurboTax Taxes was getting frustrated by your forms.

[Angel Reese]

Now Taxes is uploading your forms with a snap. And a TurboTax expert will do your taxes for you.

[Jenny Urch]

One who's backed by the latest tech.

[Angel Reese]

Which cross checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy.

[Jenny Urch]

All of which makes it easy for you to get the most money back guaranteed. Get an expert [e-mail] only available with TurboTax Live full service. Seek guaranteed [e-mail] guarantees this precedence day upgrade the look of your home without breaking your budget. Save up to 50% site wide on new window [e-mail] blinds.com makes it easy with free virtual consultations on your schedule and samples delivered to your door fast and free. With over 25 million windows covered and a 100% satisfaction guarantee, you can count on Blinds.com to deliver results you'll love. ShopBlinds.com's Presidents Day mega sale now for up to 50% off site wide. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. And some of the differences were funny. Like she shows up at school the first day and she had to sing a song. In France, they're just trying to like put her in the right spot in choir, but she had to sing a song in front of everyone else. And the hand, even the handwriting is different. You know, that's something that I wouldn't have known about. So really cool to read about those different differences in this book. A season for that. One of them is that, okay, this Tu versus vu vo.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

So they, they, they. You interact with people and you use this language that's either formal or informal. And that doesn't really happen here in America. There's nothing comparable, correct?

[Angel Reese]

Correct. It's similar in other Romance languages, but it's very pronounced in French. There's a lot of cultural knowledge behind it. But in general, a stranger would address another stranger as vu, which is the formal address. And then among your family, you would use Tu, which is the informal you, basically. And there's a bunch of different rules, you know, so an adult will always call a child tu. They will never address a child formally. Children almost always address an adult stranger as vu, unless they're part of the family. But then there's also this evolution where, you know, when you first meet somebody and have a young relationship with them, you would start with as vu. And then there comes this moment when it's like you understand that this relationship has turned into something deeper and more profound than just a formal acquaintanceship. And the way you address that person then changes from the formal to the informal. And there were a couple of moments in this experience where I got. I got to have that happen, especially with our next door neighbor, who became really my best friend and mentor and sort of brother and father figure. And I had gotten to the point where I was working in the vineyards and I was picking grapes and working in a winery, and everybody was calling each other too, because we were all co workers and. But I was still using vu with this friend, and his relationship meant a lot to me. And I was a little bit frustrated and sad that we hadn't broken through and that I wasn't able to address him this way. And then there's a moment, you know, where we're talking. I'm up on a terrace and he's down below me, and he says, you know, Steve, I think it would be better if we called each other too. And it was just this overwhelmingly emotional moment. I. I had felt like I had been accepted in a way that was so formal in one sense and yet so meaningful in another, that it's one of the. One of the most moving moments of the entire story for me.

[Jenny Urch]

Interesting thing. It's like a formalization of the friendship. It's like saying I, you know, deciding to say I love you.

[Angel Reese]

I love you. Absolutely, yes. And I mean literally, there are in some more sort of in older, you know, in past times, and I think maybe to some extent now, I think also in some like, sort of upper middle class and upper class families, there are still kids who say voodoo to their parents. But then there are also. There will also be old friends and they will actually make a date and they will go out together and they will formalize as part of. They'll have a ritual where they formally agree mutually that they're going to stop calling each other vu and start calling each other toot. It's a weird, hard thing to understand for Americans because we're so informal and we like, we we can be friends very quickly. But, you know, one of the things we learned really there is that relationships are. Take longer to develop in France, but then when you're in, you're kind of in forever. And we had some of that happen. I think some of, you know, the French people can be seen as sort of difficult by Americans, and. And I think sometimes they think they're just rude or standoffish, but I really think it's more often that this is the way that friendships develop, and they develop more slowly. You have to earn your way into a friendship over a longer time. But when you do, it is absolutely there. It is forever.

[Jenny Urch]

At that point, I had no idea. So, like, the very limited amount of French I know, which is basically counting to 10 and je pelle. Right. Is that my name is.

[Angel Reese]

Yes.

[Jenny Urch]

So, you know, I learned that. And then you would say E2, which I'm sure the pronunciation is way off, but that means and you. Right. My name is Ginny.

[Angel Reese]

And you Etois. Right, right.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, okay. So it's not two. I'm glad you corrected that.

[Angel Reese]

So, well, two would be you as a subject, and twa would be you as an object. So. But yeah, that phrase would be etois.

[Jenny Urch]

But would some people say vu?

[Angel Reese]

Yes, absolutely. Yes. So you say, je m'appelle Steve.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah.

[Angel Reese]

And if I was talking to somebody that I address formally, I would say evous.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. So I never learned.

[Angel Reese]

And if I was addressing. So, yeah, something informally, I'd say etois. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

What an interesting thing.

[Angel Reese]

So you have to be aware of it all the time. It's always in your head. And immediately, as soon as you're interacting with somebody, you have to be aware before you say almost anything. Okay, what is the relationship? What is our stance vis a vis each other in terms of formality or informality? And then the entire conversation unrolls differently based on your conclusion to that.

[Jenny Urch]

I think if someone would have taught that at the beginning, that would have made French a lot more interesting. Yeah. Are there faux pas, or is it just.

[Angel Reese]

Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, in, you know, in northern France, it's much more formal. And so the faux pas that you would make would be to use the informal too soon, where you were seen as taking liberties, whereas in the south, and kind of what happened to me is that I had been trained in this in Paris, now I'm in the south, in the Mediterranean region, where people are warmer and more open. And I think there was an extent to which my insistence on not making the Parisian faux pas of going informal too soon got seen as a little bit stuffy because I stuck with the vous too long. So, yeah, it's the kind of thing that's almost impossible to teach. At some point, you just have to have been. I mean, you can teach the basic rules, but implementing them really, at some point involves having lived there long enough that you just absorb how this works.

[Jenny Urch]

That's just a reminder that there's so many cool things out there that you could learn if you spend some time in another culture. One of the things you said that changed you, you were permanently changed. And I thought this was interesting because, you know, we're trying to eat more whole foods and less processed. And one of the things that's pretty processed are pretty processed salad dressings. I don't know.

[Angel Reese]

True, Right.

[Jenny Urch]

So I'm like, okay, well, you could just use oil and vinegar and a little lemon juice, some garlic, some salt and pepper, and get away from, like, the canola oils or whatever.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

And so you. This was like, a. A big thing in this book where you're learning to cook all of these different things, and you go to make a salad, and the dressing is always homemade.

[Angel Reese]

Yes.

[Jenny Urch]

And you're, like, gonna get your vinaigrette from the store. But that is not what people do.

[Angel Reese]

No, that is not what people do. Yeah. Not only is the dressing homemade, but in many cases, I mean, this is a wine region, so this is a winemaking village surrounded by vines and a little bit of scrubland, but it's really primarily vines. And so everybody has access to wine and inexpensive wine because either they make it or their neighbor makes it. And so it's not only that you don't buy salad dressing, it's that you don't even buy your vinegar. You make your vinegar. You let old bottles of wine sit out, exposed to air, and that alcohol is eventually turned into acetic acid and turns into vinegar. So people will have sort of jars and pots and bottles in their basement of vinegar that is made up of slowly adding, you know, the dregs of good bottles of red wine or white wine to that pot. And, you know, the vinegar just sort of makes itself over the years. And then, yes, you take. You use that vinegar to make your vinaigrette. And salad dressing in France is almost always a vinaigrette. It's almost always oil, vinegar, or some acid.

[Jenny Urch]

No ranch.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah. There is not a lot of ranch. There's not a lot of Caesar. Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

No ketchup.

[Angel Reese]

Yes.

[Jenny Urch]

I wanted to read this paragraph. The Castis family Vinegar resided in the basement of their house across the street in a ceramic vinegar across the street in a ceramic croc and was fed regularly with the undrunk remains of bottles of good red wine. The mother, a rubbery cloud that forms in the liquid and activates the transformation from wine into vinegar, was descended from an original mother born a century ago in the same house in that same croc. So just really, really cool things, Steve, to learn about and hear the different things about the food and all of the things that you cooked in the fruit in the different seasons and all of the tools you went to go buy to try and make it so that your family appreciated it. I wanted to wrap it up here because I'm sort of thinking as I'm reading this, this is six months and you end up falling in love with these people and their way of life. And you're talking to Jean Luc, you know, these, like, there will be a hole when you're gone. But you wanted to go home, back to a homeland. You wrote to give your kids. Where is it? It was so beautiful. I want to find the exact wording. It was like to give your kids a jumping off spot so that, you know, that they could. Oh, I found it. It was time to give our kids a homeland from which they could choose someday to set sail. So, you know, kind of thinking, like, are you going to stay? You know, but no, you had home right then. This is an interesting thing that since you wrote the book and you have these dreams of a certain type of home, a U shaped home. Mary Jo even talked about it. But one side is, you know, her creative side and one side is your writing studio and there's this hearth in the middle. I never got a chance to know where the bedrooms are, but I'm sure that there are bedrooms somewhere in this U shaped home. But in between, you know, writing of these books, your actual home did burn down.

[Angel Reese]

Yes. Yeah, just, just, just last month, actually a little over a month ago. And we still don't know what happened or why. But it, we're in the process of recovering from it right now. We are sort of over the initial grieving and now we're more project managing. But it's been a very interesting experience in the sense that I think as unfortunate as going to be, as time consuming as it's going to be, it's going to take a year out of our lives. At a point in our lives when we would least want to do this kind of stuff, it's just sort of rebuilding from scratch. I also think it's going to be really clarifying because it's done a couple of things. First of all, it has wiped the slate clean and there's going to be an awful lot of decisions about a lot of stuff that we sort of valued but didn't necessarily entirely value. And do you keep this piece of art from the kids third grade and do you keep these photographs, et cetera? It did that, but what it did even more is it's going to ask us to decide what is meaningful to us and we get to put the pieces of our house back together and in the process, I think put the pieces of our lives back together very, very intentionally and only let in what matters and not bring in anything that doesn't matter. And that's going to be a hard thing to do. It sounds easy. I don't think it's going to be easy at all. I think it's going to be agonizing. But I also feel like it's an opportunity as much as it is a loss, because we get to start asking ourselves, okay, we're back to square one. We're at home base. What do we let into our lives? And that's going to be a really fascinating process, I think.

[Jenny Urch]

Steve what a memoir. A season for that Lost and Frowned Lost and Found in the other Southern France. This is a memoir about home, about family, about community, about the seasons of our life, about adventure, about childhood passions, about nature, about how kids are kids. Anywhere that you're going to find a praying mantis in the other southern France, just like how you're going to find a praying mantis here, and they're probably going to die and they're going to. In the meantime, they're going to be an assassin, killing, you know, anything that you put in their way, you know, whether you're in. I'm going to try it. Sorry, I was pretty close.

[Angel Reese]

Pretty close.

[Jenny Urch]

Whether you're there or whether you're here, whether you're in Minnesota, no matter where you are, there's going to be nature that's going to engage children and that they're going to love. And I love the thought of maybe we take a season and we go adventure like how you did. I think that people will have their minds expanded, Steve, on what's possible. There was a French saying that was translated to one has the time, one takes, one has. Do you want to say it for us in France?

[Angel Reese]

Sure. And it's what our next door neighbor, Jean Luc says at some point when I'm asking him to come eat Dinner at our house. And I'm protesting that I know how busy he is, and I know that life is difficult and that, you know, that that is sort of an imposition to ask him to take this much time to eat my food. And he says that line, which is, one has the time one takes. And it really changed my thinking about a lot of things. We all claim busyness, but to some extent, busyness is the easiest thing, and actually taking the time to do what matters is the harder thing. I think we could all benefit from that. That saying, it's. It's. It's stuck with me for now. 12 years.

[Jenny Urch]

Yes. Yes. Because you said you've been working on this book for a long time.

[Angel Reese]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

Steve, what an honor. I mean, this has been a gift, connecting with you and Mary Jo. I wasn't expecting it, but have really enjoyed it so much, and it has really enhanced my own life. I know that the listeners are going to be really inspired when they hear your story about just thinking of different things that they could do with their time, with their years to come. We always end our story. Or this isn't a story, it's a podcast. We always. I say this like, I've said this 400 times. I just jacked it up. We always end our podcast with the same question. And that question. I guess it's kind of a story. But anyway, I'm blabbering. We always end with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.

[Angel Reese]

It was pretending to go camping, even though I was in the middle of the city. There was a wooded lot across the street from our house, and I would put my army green canvas backpack on, and I would go just sit in those woods for an hour and pretend I was camping. And it was. It made me feel like an adult in a way that I had never felt before.

[Jenny Urch]

I love that you talked in this book about you came from a more rigid family. And I. I thought that was a cool topic of discussion because, you know, our childhoods and we get married, you know, we maybe marry someone who has a completely different upbringing. And so I like the enhancing. You know, like, you really painted a picture of, you know, that Mary Jo is running wild in the woods, and here you are, you know, you're gonna go sit in the backpack. It's very different. Right. It's a completely different experience, but both of those come together and you end up with a more enhanced experience overall. So, Steve, what a book. Loved it. A season for that fantastic memoir with lots of things that will get you thinking and lots to learn. Thank you so much for being here.

[Angel Reese]

Thank you. And thank you for what you're doing. I think what you're doing is incredibly important. I support you a million percent. It's quite. It's. It's a beautiful.