1KHO 442: The Tension of Becoming | Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith, Being Fully Known

Summary

Summary of Episode 1KHO 442: The Tension of Becoming | Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith, Being Fully Known

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast hosted by Ginny Urich from the That Sounds Fun Network delves into the profound journey of personal growth, identity transformation, and the importance of rest and work-life harmony. In this episode, Ginny engages in an insightful conversation with Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith, an internal medicine physician, bestselling author, and international speaker. Dr. Smith shares her experiences transitioning from a medical professional to a multifaceted author and speaker, exploring themes of identity, rest, and embracing one's true self.

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1. Introducing Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith

Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith brings a wealth of experience as an internal medicine physician, author of six bestselling books, and host of the I Choose My Best Life podcast. Her latest book, Being Fully Known: The Joyful Satisfaction of Beholding, Becoming, and Belonging, explores the intricate balance between professional life and personal identity.

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2. Transitioning from Medicine to Authorship and Speaking

Ginny Urich begins by highlighting Dr. Smith's extensive background and curious transition from a long-standing medical career to becoming an author and speaker. Dr. Smith shares, “[00:38] I really could see that my identity had kind of gotten wrapped up in my role as a physician. It was all I could ever see myself doing.”

This realization marked the beginning of Dr. Smith’s journey to rediscovering and expanding her identity beyond her profession.

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3. The Tension of Becoming

A central theme of the conversation revolves around the "tension of becoming." Dr. Smith explains, “[08:43] What if you're not becoming something new, you're just becoming more of who you really are. The parts of you that are so deeply buried or deeply restrained that you're allowing yourself to step into the truth of yourself.”

This concept emphasizes that personal growth isn't about adopting a new persona but uncovering and embracing the authentic self that has always existed beneath societal and professional expectations.

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4. Navigating Social Opposition: Understanding the "Loss Attack"

Dr. Smith introduces the concept of the "loss attack," a type of social opposition one might face when stepping out of their comfort zone. She elaborates, “[21:30] When a friend does that, a part of me immediately starts thinking about, how is this going to affect my relationship with that person? What am I going to lose when they make the shift?”

Understanding these feelings helps individuals address fears related to changing roles, whether it's adopting a new career path or personal development.

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5. Embracing the Seven Types of Rest

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on rest and its various dimensions. Dr. Smith outlines her "seven types of rest" framework, distinguishing between sleep and rest. She states, “[29:29] Rest quiz. Real simple.”

This framework helps individuals identify areas where they might be experiencing rest deficits—physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, sensory, and creative—and work towards a more holistic approach to recuperation.

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6. Rest vs. Stillness: The Challenge of Being Present

Dr. Smith differentiates between rest and stillness, noting, “[39:35] Rest and stillness are not the same thing. Stillness is when there is you're removing the activity for a time, simply to be without expectation.”

For those who thrive on activity and are always processing, achieving stillness—being present without doing—can be particularly challenging but essential for true rest.

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7. Work-Life Harmony Over Balance

Shifting the conversation to professional life, Dr. Smith advocates for "work-life harmony" instead of the elusive "work-life balance." She shares, “[42:09] Work and life cannot be balanced, but they can function in harmony.”

This perspective encourages integrating work into one's life in a way that aligns with personal values and passions, rather than trying to equally distribute time between work and personal life.

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8. Identifying Sacred Work vs. Busy Work

Dr. Smith emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between sacred work and busy work. She explains, “[42:09] Busy work is a sure path to a slow death, to the gifts, talents, and calling placed within you.”

Sacred work originates from the heart and brings genuine satisfaction, whereas busy work often drains energy without fulfilling one's true potential.

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9. Practical Applications: Engaging with Purpose

The episode also touches on practical tools and experiences that align with Dr. Smith’s philosophies. For instance, she discusses a scavenger hunt app designed to make city tours engaging for children, fostering hands-on exploration and learning. Dr. Smith recounts, “[49:27] We spent about three hours in one city downtown, exploring the entire city with little kids with all these cool facts and details and all this different stuff.”

This innovative approach exemplifies integrating purposeful activities into everyday experiences, enhancing both learning and enjoyment.

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10. Spiritual Encouragement and Recognizing Victories

Dr. Smith shares spiritual insights, encouraging listeners to trust in divine protection and recognize their past victories. She reflects, “[55:37] The only reason that victory came is because of the victories that I looked back on.”

This spiritual grounding provides a foundation for resilience and confidence in navigating life’s transitions.

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11. Conclusion: Cherishing Childhood Memories

In the final segment, Dr. Smith and Ginny reminisce about cherished childhood memories, underscoring the importance of simple, joyful experiences. Dr. Smith shares her favorite memory, “[56:26] Swinging on the swing sets with a friend... 'If you go higher, I'll go higher.'”

This nostalgic reflection serves as a poignant reminder of the value of free, unstructured play and its lasting impact on personal development.

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith
  • “[07:37] Your only limitations are the mental ties you believe.”
  • “[08:43] What if you're not becoming something new, you're just becoming more of who you really are.”
  • “[21:30] When a friend does that, a part of me immediately starts thinking about, how is this going to affect my relationship with that person?”
  • “[29:29] Rest quiz. Real simple.”
  • “[39:35] Rest and stillness are not the same thing.”
  • “[42:09] Work and life cannot be balanced, but they can function in harmony.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a deep dive into the complexities of personal growth, the necessity of embracing one's authentic self, and the multifaceted nature of rest. Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith's insights provide valuable guidance for listeners seeking to navigate life's transitions with grace and intentionality. By understanding the "tension of becoming," recognizing different types of rest, and striving for work-life harmony, individuals can cultivate a more fulfilling and balanced life.

Link to Resources:

• Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith’s Website: @drdaltonsmith.com
• Rest Quiz: restquiz.com
• Seven Types of Rest Online Course: Available on Dr. Smith's website

Transcript

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot crispy fries right as they're being scooped into the carton?

[Ginny Urich]

And time just stands still? Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I have a wonderful guest today. You're going to relate with her so well, talking about balance and rest and. And stillness and trying to figure out how to kind of sort our work and our life out together at the same time. Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, welcome.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Ginny Urich]

So, Dr. Sandra, I just read your newest book. It's called Being Fully the Joyful Satisfaction of Beholding, Becoming, and Belonging. You have had all sorts of different experiences in your life, which is really fascinating. An internal medicine physician, host of I Choose My Best Life podcast, and author of several bestselling books. Oh, here's the list right here. Sacred life. Renew your energy. Restore your sanity. That's great. Recover your life. Renew your energy. Restore your. Your sanity. Set free to live free Breathing through the seven lies women tell themselves. You're an international speaker, which is a really cool story. After sort of being nervous about speaking. And you talk about all sorts of things, including rest, which I think is so important these days. We're really sort of running on empty. Can you tell us how you transition? So you're, you're 20 years, you're working in medicine. You'd known since you were a little girl that you wanted to do that. And then all of a sudden, you're speaking all over the place. You've got these books. Where did that transition happen?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, you know, for myself, there was this point in time where I really just could see that my identity had kind of gotten wrapped up in my role as a physician. It was all I could ever see myself doing. And I started notic out that I was doing the same things in other areas of my life. Like, someone will say, what do you do? And I had like these one or two words that I would say, and it started really to bother me and bug me because it was like, well, I'm more than that. I'm not just my kid's mom, or I'm not just a physician, or I'm not just whatever it is. And, you know, that took me on a bit of a discovery to try to determine, first of all, what do I like that I haven't allowed myself to experience. So there were a whole bunch of things that when I was little, it's like I loved and enjoyed doing. And then there were some Things that I didn't particularly love and enjoy doing, but I noticed that I had an affinity to do and speaking was one of them. I had seen it from when I was a little girl and someone would say, hey, can you get up and read this? And I'd get up nervously and I'd read it. And I remember one time in grade school I did that and it was like a standing ovation. And I was like, why are these people clapping? You know, and it's like I had this affinity to do something that I wasn't allowing myself to explore and, and that lack of exploration left me fearful. So that's where the journey started for me.

[Ginny Urich]

And I would imagine so many people relate to that. What were some of the things that you liked that you had set aside?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Well, I would probably say one of the big ones was just being vulnerable with people. You know, I'd grown up in a situation where, and not that my household was unsafe necessarily, we just didn't talk about feelings. It just wasn't things we talked about. It wasn't like normal day to day conversation to express how we felt. Everybody kind of really kept it in, kept their feelings kind of on, on lock, kind of kept them real close to the heart. So that's something that I, I never really grew up knowing that it was okay to do, but it was something that I always enjoyed doing. I, I'm the, I'm an introvert. I like heart to heart conversations. I like the one on one and the more intimate. And so that was one thing that I had to start exploring. Another one was I enjoy performance. You know, when I was little I like doing like plays and acts and stuff on stage and, and getting all dressed up and all the makeup and all the learning lines and all of these things. And I never really put, pursued that because I knew I wanted to do something in the sciences. And it didn't seem like creativity and science went hand in hand. So I figured I had to pick one. And so I just went deep in the one I picked and kind of just gave up on the other one that I didn't feel like fit the mold.

[Ginny Urich]

But I came back around. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to sort of come back around when you get a book contract. So you get this book contract, this point you're writing, is it primarily about rest? And in this sort of fine print, you know, they say, well, you're going to have to speak about the book. And you had kind of missed that part. And you think, oh, oh, no, you.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Know, yeah, my very first book was called Set Free to Live Free. It was three books before the rest book, five books before this book that we're talking about now. But it was during that first contract and I got that first contract simply because of having so many heart to heart conversations with women during my medical practice. I just got to the point where I felt like I was saying the same thing over and over again. And I was like, you know what if I put this in writing, I don't have to keep saying it. Every time I see someone, I can just say, hey, here. And it wasn't like I was selling the book at the time. I was really more like, let me get it and just give it to my patients. And so that's where it started. And so when I was do, and it allowed me to be creative, I was a, I used lots of stories as a, as a creative non fiction book. Lots of stories, lots of myself expressed within it. And so it was one of those situations where I really didn't think too much about the writing process because I was like, hey, you know, I don't, it's not pulling me outside of my comfort zone. But then when I, after the book came out, I started getting these emails from my publisher that was saying stuff like, hey, we have this opportunity, that's great. We're gonna, you know, have you do this radio show and this, this and that and the other. And I'm thinking, oh, I didn't know about that. But I, you know, I put on my big girl pants and I did it. Scared, but I still did it. And then it wasn't long after that they started telling me that I had to go out and speak. I couldn't just, you know, radio and podcasts I can do in my home. This was like, go stand on a stage and talk to people. And that was like too much. It felt like too much. It's not what I wanted to do. It's not the stuff I was afraid of. I was a kid who didn't, who never wanted to stand in front of the class and speak. And so that opened up a door to explore kind of that part of myself. And in the process of doing that, I really stepped into something that I loved. I was like, I'm terrified. I don't want to do this. And I was like, you know what? I really love this. I feel comfortable on a stage. I, I'm not afraid to get in front of people and share my heart. I don't feel like vulnerable. I, I feel like I've stepped into the truth of who I am. And it took a lot to really get to that place, to realize that there are parts of myself, scary parts, parts that I was actually running away from that actually make me feel the most alive.

[Ginny Urich]

What a thing. And you didn't even know it was going to happen. I think that's encouraging. You know, sometimes you. You're walking your path and things will come up then that push you into these new situations and then you grow. What's an example? From set free to live free. What's an example of something you would say over and over again?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Oh, from set free to live free. Probably one of my, my favorite lines from there is your only limitations are the mental ties you believe. Because I feel like what we believe in our mind can become its own level of resistance to living the life that we desire.

[Ginny Urich]

It's interesting because it seems like all of your books, because then you have one about resting and you've come up with this whole framework about resting. Well, it's like there's a lot of ties between them of just the sort of day to day things that people struggle with. So when you switched and, you know, you start speaking, you weren't speaking and now you're speaking. I thought you had this really beautiful phrase in being fully known where you talked about the tension of becoming. Ooh, that's really good. Dr. Sandra. The tension of becoming. And I think maybe that's part of what people are afraid of is when you're going to make a shift. There's going to be this middle point where you're not quite where you need to be and you're sort of in the middle. What advice do you give for people who are afraid of that tension of becoming something else or something new?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, I think that's the thing. I think that's part of why there's tension. We feel like we're going to become something new. But I often challenge people with what if you're not becoming something new, you're just becoming more of who you really are. The parts of you that it's not new, it's just so deeply buried or deeply restrained that you're allowing yourself to stay step into the truth of yourself. Because I feel like that's the real becoming, that's the tension. There's this person we know ourselves to be and then there's a deeper level of that person who we have yet to experience and explore. And that's the tension. It's like I'm looking at myself in the mirror. But how well do I know me? How well do I know my likes, my dislikes, my desires, my heart? You know, the things that make my heart leap and the things that break my heart? Like, how well do I know those things? Or am I being resistant to them because I'm afraid of what I'll see when I really go deep?

[Ginny Urich]

And you talk about some other things, too. Like maybe we're afraid of seeming proud or arrogant. Maybe we're afraid of the time commitment. You know, we're sort of taught. Like you were talking about your physician for 20 years. And people value that. And you're out in the public and people call you Doc and it's your thing. And I think that sort of society, and especially if you have children, there's just not a lot of extra time to dabble in these different things. You pick your lane and you sort of stay there. What advice do you give to people who are thinking, you know, I just like you, I have these things deep inside of me, but I don't really explore them because of this excuse. That excuse. What advice would you give them?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

You know what I think that's part of the pressure we kind of put on ourselves is that there's this finite timeline or time frame that all of this has to happen in. You know, I'm in my 50s now. I'd probably say it was in my 40s that this really started to open up to me, where I started to see these things. Sometimes when you're in your 20s and your 30s, you're trying to figure out how to survive. That's the book. That's book number three. The Set Free to Live Free, Breaking through or not that, But Sacred Rest. Recover your life, Renew your energy, Restore your sanity. That's where that book jumped into my life, the 20s and 30s, where you're trying to figure out, how do I have. How do I be sustainable in my life? How do I stay at a place of happiness and. And energy to do the things I need to do to raise a family and be a wife and whatever, all the stuff. But as our lives evolve, things change. Kids grow up, they eventually leave the house, and then it's you. And it's like, I think as we're going through the process of life, rather than trying to rush into certain things, we have to learn how to be moved along as life moves and not be inflexible in the process. Because that's, you know, once you've spent 20 years or 18, specifically, you know, raising children and you start seeing, even in the state stages of that rearing of child. Children, you know, you have this stage where they are like so dependent on you and then it's like, no, mommy, I can do it. You, you no longer have to cut up the meat. You know, they can do it themselves. And now you've got extra time on your hands. And it's like there's these constant little windows of opportunity to just let life evolve. And rather than kind of getting trapped in the kind of day to day of. Well, it just keeps going, nothing's changing. Being aware of opportunities for you to learn more about yourself and to explore more things about what you desire and what your likes are and how you want to show up in the world and, and all of these different aspects of it.

[Ginny Urich]

And I love that you lead the way, you model it because here you could, you know, you're a physician 20 years and all of a sudden then you're an author and you're a speaker and you've come up with this seven types of rest framework. You've got a course online. All of these different things that you're doing, you've expanded, you've expanded. And I just think that that is really inspiring. I want to read this one part. I really like this from Being Fully Known, which is your newest book and it will be out by the time this podcast goes live. Many of us fear embracing our multi talented identity would be prideful or scatter us in too many directions leaving us overwhelmed and exhausted. So we shrink back from fully expressing the multiple facets of our God given identities. We limit ourselves to one acceptable career, ministry or mission while neglecting the other talents he meant for us to multiply. We play it small, burying our talents in the ground out of fear or insecurity. Hey there.

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[Ginny Urich]

And I think one of the stories I really like that you put in here, Dr. Saundra, that really stuck with me was, you know, I think we stick in these one lane, in this one lane. And then because of social media and because of the world that we live in, and you can kind of measure how much attention you get for something or you know, you can measure it with numbers. How well is this going that my creative pursuit. But you did this thing where you recorded music and you're like, might win a dove award.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, I was looking for that devil award too. I had the space like planned out where I was gonna put it and it did not come.

[Ginny Urich]

But where were you gonna put it?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Well, I have this place in my, in my office, my home office. Not like work office, but my home office where I keep like little things that I win, you know, and so kind of like your kids, you have like where you have all their little soccer trophies in their room and all their stuff. Like I had that place for myself and so I was like, it's ready, it's ready to put the awards up there now. So. But yeah, it was one of those situations where, you know, I felt like it's like this is something I really want to do and I'm putting my effort into and I'm putting my, my gift out there kind of on display. And I had to really learn that there, there's level, levels of really self exposure that are its own reward. And so it's the freedom just to say, here I am. This is how I show up in the world. It's not necessarily gonna, you know, make a big splash anywhere, but I'M being true to me and I'm allowing myself to go beyond my fears and my resistance and my hopes and my expectations. I'm taking the weight of all of those things and laying them aside simply just to say, this is what I want to do and this is how I want to show up today in the world. So, yeah, I wrote those songs and we got them recorded and did all the things and you know, it's been, it's been really interesting just seeing how much joy I get from that. I shared it with my, my adult. Well, they're in their teens, teens and twenties. I had an eighteen and twenty year old now, so shared it with them and so they have it and it's something that, you know, is it ever going to win a Dev award? Absolutely not. Not at this stage. But it's something that my family treasures. It's something I can share with my grandkids one day or my daughter in laws one day so that they see a part of my heart in a side of me that they may not otherwise have known.

[Ginny Urich]

You did it because you enjoyed it.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urich]

And I think that there's something to be said about that, that it doesn't necessarily have to win the Dove Award, that we can do things because we enjoy them. Which one is your favorite that you recorded?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

I would probably say all to me. That's the one that my in laws actually played for me and played it by ear and played it back to me one Christmas Eve. And so it was really special just to have people who I care about, care enough about me to learn and then regurgitate, so to speak, my music back to me.

[Ginny Urich]

I love that. I love that all the things that you talk about in this book, you model yourself. One of the things that you talk about I think is really important for people to know is you talk about in this sort of tension of becoming. You talk about how when you step into the deep waters of your natural identity, you will experience opposition and you go through just from other people, you, you know, and I mean they're not being maybe rude, maybe they're just confused or maybe they're insecure themselves or it could be a whole host of things. So you talk about the loss attack, the safety attack, the defeat attack, the intimidation attack. Can you pick one of those that you like to talk about and just talk about, you know, how we can sort of navigate because most people are doing the one lane thing. So then when you say, I'm going to go record some songs, people are like, huh? Why are you Doing that, you know, could you pick one of those types of oppositions that might come up and how you could handle it?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, that's such, that's such a good question. Because, you know, it's one of those things that we, we. If you've ever tried to step outside of your box, you're going to hit one of these attacks, and it's usually from people who love you. It's like people who really, really love you. And I, I'll start. Well, I, I'll focus, I guess, specifically on the loss attack because often times when you step out and try to do something new and friends say, well, why are you doing that? And they start giving you, like, all of these different, like, reasons why it's probably a bad idea and why it's, you know, why you probably shouldn't do it. There's usually some, like, ulterior reason. They may not be trying to be malicious. But I know for myself, when a friend does that, a part of me immediately starts thinking about, how is this going to affect my relationship with that person? What am I going to lose when they make the shift? And I think we have to think about that. That's the loss attack. What does that person lose in me making a change? So you say, hey, hey, honey, I'm gonna go lose 50 pounds, you know, or I'm starting this weight loss diet or whatever it is. You know, what is your. Why, why would a spouse give resistance to that? I mean, logically, it's like, you're going to be healthier, you'll live longer, you'll have more energy. That should be a yes, yes, yes, all day long. So why is it that as a physician, I see this often, Most spouses have resistance to that because they're going to lose something. They're going to lose that ice cream break that you have, you know, whatever. They're going to lose that date night where you get to go eat all the yummies and have all the stuff and nobody worries about it, they're going to lose that time that they could sit on the sofa and watch TV with you because now you want to go for a walk and they don't want to go for a walk. So what's the loss that's happening that in that moment? Because if we can identify the loss that is causing them to leave and lead an attack against, you know, the change, you can then put their fears at ease. Hey, I still have one night a week that I still, I'm still going to honor our date night and we can make meals work, you know, for that date night. Or I'm still going to honor our time at the tv. I'm going to work out earlier in the day, so I still have time on the sofa with you to cuddle and do all the things. I think we have to recognize that they're not attacking us, they're attacking the change. And that's what people fear. Change, change and transition will bring more divides and relationships than anything else you wrote.

[Ginny Urich]

Remaining undaunted by fear and the opinions of others requires courage and intentionality. So you can find that in this book. The different types of attacks, the safety attack, the defeat attack, the intimidation attack. In being fully known, it actually made me. I. I had this distinct memory of, like, being in my early 20s. It's like when everyone was starting to get engaged and I was at my boyfriend's house and my best friend from childhood called and she had gotten engaged, and I was like, you know, faking how happy I was for her. I was like, yeah. And then I got off the phone, I cried so hard, because that's a loss attack. Then it was like, it is from that point on, every single time I hung out with her. I mean, and her guy was great, but, like, he was always there, and it was just a big change for me. I faked it pretty well, Dr. Sandra, but. But it was definitely a loss. So I think people will relate to that, and I think it's good that you write about that so people can know to be just aware that that's probably going to happen and how to navigate it.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

And we do it as parents. You know, I know a lot of your audience's parents, we do that as parents without realizing what we're doing. Like, I don't know about some of the parents on your. On your show, but I know as a mom, when I dropped my kids off, like, for their first day of, like, you know, first grade or something like that, at the point where they think, like, they're a big kid, and it's like, we're not going to kiss you. I'm just going to kind of wave you off and walk in the door with my backpack, there's a loss attack. A part of me is like, let me help you with this, because I'm afraid of losing that level of deep connection where they need me and they really want me in their life all the time. And to see them kind of get that little bit of independence and march off up that stairs, there's a bit of loss that happens. And as a parent, if we're not careful, we can kind of mount our own loss attack. And it usually comes in being clingy because we're like, we don't really want you to kind of not need us. We like for you to need us a little bit. So it works in many different ways in our lives.

[Ginny Urich]

Wow, what a thing to be aware of. And now that your kids are 18 and 20, you could probably give insight into saying you're gonna have to deal with it a whole lot.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yes. Because now, you know, you show. You put all their stuff in bags and you ship them off and see them three times a year, you know, four times a year, whatever. So it's a completely different thing. It's. There's a bit of. Of. There's definitely a loss. If any parent has gone through the, as they call it, empty nest. I call it launching stage, because my nest is still not empty because they have to come home. But that launching stage where you're launching them kind of out onto their own, there is a loss there. And if you don't take time to grieve that loss, like you were saying, you cried over losing those. That time, that place, kind of in time with your friend. I think every parent needs to be realistic. You're going to need to grieve when your kids leave the house. It's going to take a minute for your. Your spirit to kind of get in alignment with the fact everything has changed.

[Ginny Urich]

Yes. And not to attack them for it.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Exactly. Where have you. Where were you? You know, why didn't you call me? And I. I remember with my own kids, you know, when they. You see them so often, you know, where they're at home, and then it's like all of a sudden, you don't see them all the time. And the first year, my first son who went off, it's like, okay, we're gonna call each other, like, you know, every other day. Every day. Something like that. And then his classes, you know, he was taking, like, chemistry and calculus.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Time to talk to Mom. He's trying to figure out how to keep his head afloat. And so I'm like, why are you not. He's like, mom, I. He's like, I barely have time to eat. I'm trying to just not fail these classes. And I'm like, you know what? I've mounted a loss attack. I'm trying to make him feel guilty for doing what I sent him to school and paying thousands of dollars for him to do, which is study and pass these classes. So I think we have to continuously kind of evaluate our responses. And then, and, and then for myself, it was a moment of just stepping back. Me, my husband was like, I miss him. I'm sad. I don't like having an empty spot at the table and actually mourning that and actually letting the healing that was needed for that to occur.

[Ginny Urich]

And I, you know, I would imagine that most people listening, I mean, I remember those days. I've always thought it's kind of a wild stage where you have to do school and often work, you know, and also you're trying to, you know, figure a social life because it's not stable yet. Right. You're not married and you're dating, and I mean, it is so much to juggle. And then you throw in your mom who wants to talk to you, and you get it. It's not malicious, exactly. They just have so much going on, and they're trying to. Like you said, they're launching themselves into their life. And so I like what you talk about. That's something really to be aware of as a parent. And it starts very young. One of the things that you are an expert on is rest. And you had a quote in this book, being fully known where you wrote. Someone said this to you, I don't know how to stop doing when it all depends on me. And I just thought, oh, I bet a lot of people relate to that. I think, you know, we think about, oh, I should rest more, but I don't have anything I can drop. But actually, usually we do because we're on our screens a lot. Maybe in some ways we're lying to ourselves, but. But for some people, I did probably very, very legitimate, there really isn't anything I could drop. What are we supposed to do when we're trying to learn how to rest well and free ourselves from burn. Burnout.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, that's. That was really the whole seven types of rest framework. And the, the theory behind the book, Sacred Rest, is really helping people learn how to integrate rest and restorative practice in the middle of their busy life. You know, in the book, the framework basically is helping people realize that sleep and rest are not the same thing. And that rest has many facets, particularly seven different areas that they can become depleted, including physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, sensory, and creative. And for a lot of people, the reason that they're staying so tired is because they actually have a rest deficit in one of those seven areas. And they're probably putting all their attention and maybe the physical or the mental, but they're not aware that Creatively is. Or sensory wise is the thing that's actually driving their fatigue. And so that's, that's where our free [e-mail] comes from for helping people identify there's. Which are the seven types of rest are most efficient in.

[Ginny Urich]

That's a great URL. Restquiz.com super simple.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

When you're exhausted, you're not trying to figure out what's the name of that thing. Rest quiz. Real simple.

[Ginny Urich]

And you also, you offer courses people can. I'll make sure I link. But people can find [e-mail] and. And there. [e-mail] you can find different resources to help you. But you have this whole online course that people can take. You had this really beautiful question in being fully known where you were talking about and this related really well. I love all the nature metaphors. I never know if it's a metaphor or an analogy. You probably do because you're a doctor, but. And you've really well researched and smart. But I don't know which one it is. You're talking about them.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

It's both. Because I go back and forth in my writing between analogies and metaphors.

[Ginny Urich]

Okay. Okay. It's both. So you're talking about, you know, the tree and the soil. And this is biblical. You know, the Bible talks about when it falls on good soil and it yields 50 to 100 times. But if it falls on rocky soil or these different things and you're relating that to rest. I thought it was. I really liked that picture where it's like, can we keep drawing from this? Can we keep drawing? So the question is, can the soil withstand the extra pull on its resources? The worst thing I can do is place a seed in soil I have not prepared to receive. So I think that's a really good way to look at what we have inside of us and what's demanded of us. And people, I'm sure they can find out through your course. But if you were to give like a little quick overview of how do we make sure that our soil or our insides are. That we have enough in there to draw from.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, you know, I, I love that part of the book because it really made me as well reflect on some things in life because I think too often we look at kind of all the stuff we want to accomplish and we dive head first into the accomplishment without being mindful at the sustainability of what we're trying to build or what we're trying to grow. And, and that's where you get this imbalance between the seed and the soil. You have a desire, but you actually haven't built framework or stability to be able to, for, for the seed to have the level of productivity and expansion and growth and thrive in the way that you want it to. So I think for a lot of us, when we sit down and we think about our goals or our dreams or our desires, is actually looking at is there space in our life or what we just said? You know, I coach a lot of women and a lot of times they'll say, oh, I want to grow this gigantic business and I want to have this impact and I want to make this income. And they're, they're, you know, they're still in that they're homeschooling five kids. It's like, exactly how do you expect all that to happen? There has to be, there has to be enough, kind of healthy, enough soil for that to be able to occur. So when we're looking at what does your capacity calendar look like? Like, how many extra hours do you have to work in this business? And if you don't, what, what adjustments are you going to make to make that happen? Are you going to have someone maybe assist you with the homeschooling or assist you with the business or both? You know, but we have to, to really get realistic about our own capacity and what we're able to sustain. Because what really gets people desperate and disgusted with their life is when they try to force capacity into a place that, where there is none. So they may have all the gifting in the world to be a great, you know, business owner, but they don't have three hours a day to even do anything with their business. So now they're pulling three hours out of the time in the evening when they should be resting and downgrading and connecting with their spouse. So once the kids are in the bed now they're going to build their business from 8 to what, 1 or 8 to 11 or whatever time it is. And, and it's like, oh. And then they're too exhausted to enjoy what they're even building. So we have to then backtrack and say, I have to, I have to make sure that I'm create kind of making a healthy soil. Whether that means you get an, you know, some kind of part time nanny situation or something, or a friend where you kind of co op with each other with the kids and maybe she homeschools in the morning and you homeschool the kids in the evening or something. Get creative. But we can't Time does not come out of thin air. It actually has to be very well orchestrated for those kind of things to work.

[Ginny Urich]

Well, that's interesting. So when the woman who says I don't know how to stop doing when it all depends on me, the answer is you gotta have it. Not all depend on you. Or you just have to wait. You have to wait until things change a little bit. I have always really liked this book. It's called I'm Being There. There's something about motherhood in the first three years and I don't remember anything about the book except for this one sentence that said moms can do it all, just not all at the same time.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Exactly. That's exactly right. Because I think that's the thing. I think that's the thing. Most of us, we know what we're capable of. That's the problem. We know we are capable of doing all the things that we envisioned and dreamed. When you get to that point where you know you're capable of it, you then have to be truthful. What is my capacity to actually do it? Are is there time to do what I know I'm capable of? And if there isn't, you have to be honest about that and either make space for that time, which usually means you're going to have some outsourcing of some sort or condensing of activities in some way, or you're going to just choose to leave something on the table to revisit at another time.

[Ginny Urich]

It's really good advice.

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[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

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[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

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[Ginny Urich]

Okay, here's something that was interesting. Dr. Sandra so you just talked about sleep and rest are not the same thing. But then you said rest and stillness are not the same thing. I knew how to rest but not how to be still. Stillness was the unknown missing part of my Understanding, which I thought was really interesting. Can you expound on that?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, I. You know, sacred rest and the seven types of rest. That's a journey I've been on for years. Years, 10, 12 years now. And so I. I feel really good about knowing what type of rest I need and getting the types of rest I need and doing all of those things. But what I found was I am the type of person who loves. Who loves being busy. I know how to restore myself and to stay in a healthy place as far as getting the rest and all of that. But I also realize that I'm someone who. I'm always thinking, I'm always processing. I've got thousand ideas at one time. I'm always looking at ways of improving things. And so the process of stillness, of simply being in the moment without doing something, that's where I struggled. Because even with restorative activities, which can be restful, there's activity. Stillness is when there is. You're removing the activity for. For a time, simply to be without expectation. And that's where I had a problem. And so there's been this process over this past year of how can I focus more on how I'm being than how I'm doing? Like, I can say things like, I am doing this project today. How am I being? Am I. Am I being happy? Am I being sad? Am I being joyful? Am I being. How am I. What. What is the internal part of me that doesn't have to do. What does that look like today? That's the harder thing, I think, for myself, at least.

[Ginny Urich]

And that's one of the main premises of this book being fully known. I think people will love it. The joyful satisfaction of beholding, becoming and belonging. You talk about the. You know, it's so. It's brought up so much work, life balance. Work, life balance. And I talked to this man recently named John Acuff, and he does a lot about work and goals. And I was talking to him about how, you know, there's a thing that says on your deathbed, no one will wish they had worked more. And I kind of thought. I kind of pushed back on that. And I asked him about it, and he thought it wasn't really true, you know, because truly, you should be, like, satisfied with your work, and your work should bring you joy. And, you know, of course, all the work you did as a physician was wonderful work. You're helping all of these people. And so I thought what. Your insight on this was really amazing. It's like. No, like, work is Your life and life is your work in. In some capacity. You talk about really trying to avoid busy work. Can you explain that?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah, I, you know, I, I've heard that a lot. That statement that you just made that no one will get to the end of their life and wish that they'd worked more. I kind of rephrase that to say no one's going to. Wants to get to the end of their life and feel like their work did not actually come from the purest part of who they are. Because that's what most of us are doing. And you know, we live a life where we are working and we're producing, but what we're producing is actually for someone else's satisfaction and joy. The company, the client, the whatever. And we're not working actually from a place where we feel like we're producing something that is a true reflection of who we are and what we desire to put back out in the world. Because I feel like that's the work most of us most desire, because that is the work that will feel like your life's work. And so from that, to me, it looks like basically stepping into this, this realization that your work, the work that is the most satisfying is work that actually sometimes has no monetary value. It's like you can get paid for work that, that does do this. But what I find is like as a physician, I get paid to treat diseases. That's what I get paid to treat. Nobody pays me to be compassionate and to show love for another person. That is what I most love about the job. But I don't get paid for that. You know what I mean? I get paid for treating medical conditions. And so I think we have to, when we look at our work, realize that there's parts of our work that. That are. That in the working we are getting specifically reimbursed for skills or knowledge or training and all of these things. What is the sacred part of that work? The part of the work that actually connects your heart to the work, the part of the work that makes you come alive? Because I believe when we do work that is actually kind of our sacred work, the work that actually makes our heart leap. You actually get energized by the work you want to do the work. I actually was recently speaking at a conference where John and I were both actually speakers keynote that two conferences actually last year. We. But we overlapped with each other. And that was one of the things that that kind of came up is that we both travel a lot. We come alive in the talking with People from stage, we come alive in the sharing of our ideas that can help transform the way someone else thinks. And yes, it's work. Yes, I get exhausted on planes and have to redo, do my own rest work to kind of rejuvenate. But in that moment on the stage, I am the most energized and most alive you will ever see me. And I think that's what we have to realize. The work that we were put on the earth to do, the work that most speaks to our heart, it makes us feel energized. It doesn't actually drain us. In that moment, you feel like you are doing what you were meant to do.

[Ginny Urich]

What a reframe. This is how you wrote work. I don't know if that made sense. I'm going to say this is what you wrote. Work and life cannot be balanced, but they can function in harmony. And so I love that, that you're like on the lookout for the sacred part of your work. And I think that anybody could relate to that. Like maybe you're a mom right now that's staying at home and you've got a four year old and a two year old. What's the sacred part of your work? Or maybe you're juggling, you got a side thing and you know, it's like, what is the sacred part of your work? The story you told was so touching in this one where you had, there was a, you know, I'm sure that you've seen your fair share of tragedies, but this one where this little boy comes in and, and he lost his mother and you had also lost your mother as a child. And so you said I, I was the right person to be there, to be the one that kind of walked him through that moment. And you don't get paid for that. That's like what you're saying. But you had found the sacred part of your work and you wrote also to watch out for busy work. Busy work is a sure path to a slow death, to the gifts, talents and calling placed within you. So just to be on the lookout, I thought that those were really meaningful ways to look at what we're doing with our day to day. And in all of it you give examples of how you're doing it. And I just love that. Modeling.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Yeah. I think, you know, as a parent, I can see many, many moments in parenting my children when I look back and I'm like, oh, I slipped into busy work big time. I think I share an example where my son's like sitting at the Table doing some homework or something like that. And he's saying something and I'm just like cooking away. I'm like, I gotta get this dinner on the stove and you know, doing all the stuff that we do. And now looking back, I'm like, he just wanted someone to hear him. That was a sacred moment. If I could have just realized that, you know what, I don't have to chop up these, whatever it is I was chopping up. I can yank something out the freezer today. It doesn't have to be fresh. You know, I could have done something quick and just really stepped into that moment with him in that because that's what he, that would have been the more, a more sacred, satisfying, life giving moment in that time. So I think as a parent, yeah, we have to, we can so easily slip into the busy work because it feels like laundry's got to get done, dishes got to get done, food's got to get cooked, all the things. And to just really allow ourselves sometimes to, to step into those moments where we really connect with the people we.

[Ginny Urich]

Care about, it's really thought provoking. Dr. Sandra like the work, to look at it as work life harmony, it's just one switch of one word between balance and harmony. Because if you think about, well, let's say you're cooking with your kids, if you include them in it, this is work you have to get done. But what you want to be a mom, that's connecting. So if they join in and you play some music and you're dancing around, that's work, life harmony. If you throw the basket of laundry over top their head, once it comes, you know, like, that's work, life harmony.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Roll around in it. Sometimes when my kids were little, they love to roll. I'm like, you know what, it'll be wrinkled. Who cares?

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, yeah. And that's finding the harmony between what you has to get done. It has to get done, you know. And even I've heard people talk about how we've got a dishwasher, but they talk about how like if you're, they got the suds, I mean, what little kid doesn't love to play with water? And you've got the suds of soap in the, if you hand wash a few of them with them or things like that. So I just thought it was thought provoking. And it kind of gets your mind sort of starting to work around like, well, what's all the work I have to get done? And is there a way to make this feel like it's in harmony with the life that I want to live instead of trying to strive for this elusive balance that never is really there. So what a beautiful thing. I loved that. I'm going to bring up something super random. It was like one of the coolest things I've ever read in any book. Okay, I've never heard of this and I need to know more. It is kind of out of the blue, but it's in the book.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

I'm scared now.

[Ginny Urich]

Okay, whenever. And this is really pertaining to our audience because you're trying to get our kids outside. We're trying to have these different experiences. Hands on living. Whenever our family visits a new place, we love touring the city by way of Scavenger hunt. An app asks questions and provides clues that encourages us to explore the city. With each answered question, we learn more. This is the coolest idea I've ever heard of. I want to know all about it. And how did you even think to do this?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Honestly, it was one of those situations where our kids, we love traveling and so we used to just go to these places with our kids and we do like a hop on, hop off bus or whatever. And our kids would be like, oh, this is so boring. And I was like, you know, there's got to be some other way of doing this where they actually want to go and explore these cities. And that was the idea. I remember, you know, one, we. We went to one and it was like this. I. I typed in the name of the scene and I typed in activities for kids. And that's what popped up. It's. It was an app that said, hey, we, you know, do you do scavenger hunts in this, you know, in, in multiple big cities. And so I think I paid like, maybe, you know, this is bad. This probably 10 years ago, back when apps were like, weird, you know, you can get it for like 99 cents. So I paid like 99 cents. And when we got to the city, the app had like some kind of gps, something going on. And it said hit to start and it gave us a clue. And the clue was like, you know, walk, you know, within five, you know, walk in this direction to this store and find xyz. And so we walk through the city and as we're walking, the app is telling us stuff about what we're like around the city. Hey, at this store. And we're going through all the different stuff. And my kids loved it because you could tie, you could basically like each step along the way, you could stop whenever you wanted to. It would tell you hey, this place has really great ice cream or really great smoothies. And you know, if you want it to stop, great. And. And it just kept going. So we spent about three hours in one city downtown, exploring the entire city with little kids with all these cool facts and details and all this different stuff. And sometimes it say stuff like, hey, look over into the pond. Do you see such and such and such bird that looks like this? Yes or no? Because it doesn't know what's there at the moment right in some of these places. And you hit yes. And it give you this like, rundown about the bird. Or it's say, what about this? Do you see this type of insect up under this? And I was just like, this is awesome. So we did that for like three or four of the different big cities that we went to, and it was just amazing. And you know, I. My kids went to public while they went to private school, but they were never homeschooled. But it was almost like this experience where I was like, you know what? I can. I could definitely see someone who, who is like a homeschool parent and they're like taking their kids on different locations and. Or not, because it was that kind of experience. It was like having this educational yet fun experience out in the real world with my kids, which was a new experience for me.

[Ginny Urich]

I think that's totally life changing. I didn't know that was an option. We done hardly. I think that those bus tours can be pretty boring.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

My kids did too, but they're good.

[Ginny Urich]

In the sense of like, my parents always do them when they go to a new city. They always start with the bus tour. So it gives them an overview of what's there and then they can figure out what they want to go back to or spend more time on. But this is such a better option with kids. So I had never heard of it. I was like, this is like a gem. I mean, you're relating it to other things and it fit with the book, but it was such a gem, I had to pull it out. It is the coolest idea, touring a new city by way of scavenger hunt. I thought, oh my gosh, people are going to absolutely love that. This book also has just some spiritual encouragement. So people that listen in come from different faith backgrounds. But I found these couple statements to be really impactful. For me, right now, we are going out on a tour. Dr. Sandra. It's like before the book comes out. So when this podcast launches, the tour will be over. And it's only. It's Five shows. And I am nervous as all get out. I mean, you know, to try the new thing. You're in the transition of becoming. We're going on a tour with a couple other families. There's music and we're doing improv and speaking, and I think it's gonna be great. But you don't know. We're in the you don't know phase. And so I just found a couple of these statements from your book being fully known to be so encouraging. Obedience to God comes with divine protection. Even if you're stepping onto a path you never imagined he'd ask you to travel. I was like, oh, check. And this one. Oh, I thought this was so good. This is. I have this one capitalized and I told it to my husband. You have a history with God. There are already victories under your belt. Oh, these are good things to remember. I love it. So this is in the book as well. People are interested. What were some, what were some of your victories that you already had under your belt?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

You know what, one of the reasons for that particular statement, I remember when I first started, just my whole journey, journey with God, with the writing and the, in the speaking. But you know, I talk about in the book this huge transition point period that happened when I felt like I was supposed to step away from clinical practice, which, you know, is my entire life, is the only thing I ever imagined doing. And that turmoil season in between, like, do I do it? Do I. Like, how do I even say yes to that? That seems so wild. That's what I had to kind of think back on. What are the past victories or the past times where I felt like, I don't know if I can do this. And I saw God show up in amazing ways. And so that's probably one of the biggest kind of victories I would probably say with God is that moment of stepping into that. Okay. I don't feel like I'm supposed to do full time clinical practice anymore. Stepping off into that in 2019 and just seeing how my life has evolved since then, I mean, there's so many different ways and things that I'm doing now that I would have never have even imagined that I'd even get the opportunity to do people that I've had the opportunity to coach or to train or to work with. It just blows my mind to. To look back now and to see that. And the only reason that victory came is because of the victories that I looked back on.

[Ginny Urich]

That's really powerful. Wow. Dr. Sandra, the book is wonderful. It's called Being fully known, the joyful satisfaction of beholding, becoming and belonging. It will be out by the time this podcast airs. It is book number six. So there's lots of things that you can go back and read. We talked about some of them in this show and I'll make sure I link in the show notes. They can also find your rest online, seven types of rest online course and the restquiz.com Great. All right. Easy, easy, easy to remember to learn about the different seven types of rest. There's so many things I think here that intersect with the listeners. It really intersected with my life. So I'm really, really grateful. I really enjoyed reading it. I got a lot out of it, a lot that I'm taking with me. We always end our show with the same question. And that question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Favorite memory from childhood would probably be swinging on the swing sets with a friend. I remember one time when we were swinging, it was one of those situations where we were self propelling ourselves and I and in that process of self propelling, swinging our legs back and forth. I remember her looking over and saying, if you go higher, I'll go higher. And I thought for myself, this is the, this is what every woman needs to be shouting to her friend. If you go higher, I'll go higher.

[Ginny Urich]

Oh, I love it. I love it. And I love those simple moments of childhood. If I get on a swing now, I get motion sick. But when you're a kid, it's so fun. It's so fun to be at the same level as that person. It's just like and to jump off and try and land on your feet. It's such a great part of childhood. Dr. Saundra, thank you so much for being here.

[Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith]

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.