1KHO 453: How to Keep Going When It Feels Like All is Falling Apart | Levi Lusko, Blessed are the Spiraling

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Episode: 1KHO 453: How to Keep Going When It Feels Like All is Falling Apart | Levi Lusko, Blessed are the Spiraling Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Ginny Urich engages in an insightful conversation with Levi Lusko, the author of Blessed are the Spiraling: How the Chaotic Search for Significance Can Lead to Joy Through Life's Shifting Seasons. Released on March 31, 2025, the episode delves deep into personal struggles, spiritual growth, and the transformative power of embracing life's inevitable spirals.

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Personal Journey and Midlife Crisis

Levi Lusko opens up about his intense personal journey, detailing his experience with a midlife crisis at the age of 38. He recounts how, for two decades, he and his wife Jenny relentlessly pursued their goals—marrying young, planting churches, authoring eight books, and traveling extensively. Despite his accomplishments, Levi began to feel the unsustainable weight of his relentless pace.

Notable Quote:

"I hit the wall at 38 and I ran really hard in my 20s and 30s." – [07:22]

Levi describes the onset of panic attacks and a profound sense of apathy, questioning his purpose and the sustainability of his lifestyle. The pandemic acted as a catalyst, stripping away distractions and forcing him to confront his internal struggles.

Notable Quote:

"When the tide goes out, you find out who has been swimming without a bathing suit." – [11:40]

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The Inner Ring and Ambition

The discussion transitions to the concept of the Inner Ring, inspired by C.S. Lewis, which explores the perpetual human desire to belong to exclusive groups or achieve higher statuses. Levi emphasizes the importance of finding contentment in one's current state rather than incessantly striving to be better than others or to reach the next "ring."

Notable Quote:

"If you need it to be something, it's never going to do for you what you hope it will." – [24:08]

He draws parallels between ambition and identity, advocating for a healthy balance where ambition is fueled by personal growth rather than external validation.

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Handling Success and Its Shadow

Levi addresses the often-overlooked challenges that come with success. Drawing from anecdotes of influential figures like Hans Zimmer and Steve Martin, he illustrates the fear of decline and the anxiety of maintaining one's status. Levi shares his own fears of relevance and the burden of expectations following his bestselling first book.

Notable Quote:

"If I am only as good as my last sermon, if I'm only as prolific as my last book, which for me, my first book I ever wrote, is the highest selling book I've ever written... it's an interesting mind game to be in." – [30:06]

He underscores the necessity of dissociating self-worth from external achievements to navigate the shadows of success effectively.

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Seasonality of Life

A significant portion of the conversation centers on seasonality—the natural progression through different phases of life, much like the changing seasons in nature. Levi connects this concept to biblical teachings, illustrating how each season, whether vibrant like spring or contemplative like winter, holds its own beauty and purpose.

Notable Quote:

"We all love the prime, we all love the strength of the summer of life, peak life. And I think that's kind of what we all want." – [37:11]

He encourages embracing each phase, appreciating its unique offerings, and preparing for future transitions by learning from past experiences.

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Planning for Death and Legacy

Levi emphasizes the importance of preparing for end-of-life matters, such as drafting a will. Highlighting startling statistics—72% of Americans lack a will—he advocates for proactive planning to ease the burden on loved ones and to ensure one's wishes are honored.

Notable Quote:

"By taking the practical step to create a will, you'll be more grounded in the present." – [37:11]

He shares personal experiences, including the passing of his father, to illustrate the profound impact of having these plans in place.

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Investing in Relationships

Throughout the episode, Levi and Ginny discuss the critical role of authentic relationships in navigating life's spirals. Levi reflects on his deep connections, highlighting moments of vulnerability and mutual support that have been instrumental in his healing and growth.

Notable Quote:

"People in your life that you can look in the eyes and that you cannot be fake with... it's really important." – [53:53]

He underscores the significance of prioritizing genuine friendships over superficial engagements, especially during challenging times.

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Conclusion

In Blessed are the Spiraling, Levi Lusko presents a narrative of turning crises into opportunities for growth and joy. This episode encapsulates his journey through personal turmoil, his embrace of life's changing seasons, and the vital lessons learned about ambition, legacy, and relationships. Listeners are left with an inspiring message: embrace your spirals, find blessing in adversity, and cultivate meaningful connections to navigate the ever-shifting landscapes of life.

Notable Quote:

"Your spirals don't have to take you down. They can take you up." – [43:26]

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Key Takeaways

• Embrace Change: Recognize and accept the natural progression of life's seasons.
• Find Contentment: Seek satisfaction within your current state rather than in external achievements.
• Plan Ahead: Address end-of-life matters proactively to ease future burdens.
• Prioritize Relationships: Invest in authentic, supportive connections.
• Transform Adversity: View crises as opportunities for personal and spiritual growth.

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Blessed are the Spiraling serves as a beacon for those navigating their midlife crises or any tumultuous period, offering wisdom and actionable insights grounded in faith and personal experience.

Transcript

[Andrew Hawk]

Do you want your teenager to go on the adventure of a lifetime, all the while learning the ability to know God's truth, discern wisely, and take godly.

[Levi Lusko]

Action in the world?

[Andrew Hawk]

My name is Andrew Hawk and I'm the camp director at the Excel Summer Leadership Camp. Every summer we take teenagers on two week adventures to help them grow in their leadership, discernment and Christlike character. Between camping, rock climbing, hiking and whitewater rafting, campers build lifelong friendships while also training in Excel College's game changing critical thinking method. They'll learn to filter through the cultural messages of the day with godly wisdom and to learn how to apply those in the method in real life context through wilderness first aid and CPR training. A few months ago, I received a message from Melissa, one of our past campers. When her mom and her were overseas, her mother got injured and she used her training to make a huge difference, according to doctors, to be able to get help when it was needed. We love to hear stories like this. Not only do campers lead with practical skills, but also with a deeper faith in Jesus and lifelong community. I want to personally invite your teenager to join us this summer by going to theexcelcamp.org to learn more. That's theexcelcamp.org welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast.

[Ginny Urich]

My name is Ginny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and back today. I'm so excited. The most random situation. We met in Moab, Utah on a Hummer. Levi, let's go.

[Levi Lusko]

Literally, a Humvee. What a statement. You know, it's not that random because you are spending your life outside, so it's bound to happen.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. And so are you. And so are you. I was so impressed there couldn't be.

[Levi Lusko]

A more appropriate place to meet. Actually. Also, what a great story. Like, oh yeah, we were on the side of a the Devil's Revenge in a Humvee. You were screaming out in tongues, as I recall, over and over again.

[Ginny Urich]

Yes. And I think back on it and really just in preparation even for this interview. And it was just a unique experience because you, I think you introduce yourself as maybe an author or an author and a podcaster. And then Lennox said something like, well, yeah, he's only written nine books or only whatever.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, he said it like. Like he was ashamed of me. Yeah, well, Dad's only written eight books. You know, he doesn't try very hard. He's underachiever.

[Ginny Urich]

You know, we didn't get into any specifics at all. And then you Said, well, the book I have coming out is Marvel at the Moon. And I was like, oh, I have a podcast about getting outside. And so it just really has been an amazing thing.

[Levi Lusko]

I've talked to Jenny, too, and now we're besties. We're besties.

[Ginny Urich]

I have Jenny's book. I have two copies of the Fight to Flourish, because I bought one for myself. And then she so graciously sent me a hardcover copy. And it's wrapped Levi in this, like, gorgeous green bow. It's pretty much the nicest bow I've ever seen. And so it just sits on my shelf with the bow on it.

[Levi Lusko]

I love it. Jenny's love language is wrapping paper, so she. She's all about. She would be happy to hear that. She loves wrapping things.

[Ginny Urich]

It's so gorgeous that I didn't even.

[Annie F. Downs]

Take it out of there.

[Ginny Urich]

And I. And I look at it all the time. It's on my bookshelf.

[Levi Lusko]

Imagine being married to her because I give her gifts that look like they were wrapped by a blind baboon, you know, and she gives me these beautiful things. I'm like, I'm terrible. Here you are.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. Because I. I, like, literally had never seen a bow, but it was the nicest bow I'd ever seen. I was like, did a machine do this? What's going on?

[Levi Lusko]

It's very intimidating. So I just. I just give her gift cards, you know.

[Ginny Urich]

There you go. So anyways, this has just been really such a treat. I mean, I can't even really describe, and your books have been so influential for me. Your newest one, which will be out by the time this podcast airs and heading into Easter. I mean, this is a great one, I think, to take, you know, you're going to someone's Easter dinner, you know, this is a beautiful book to bring along with you to give as a gift. It's called Blessed Are the Spiraling. Such a great title. Very intriguing. How the chaotic search for significance can lead to joy through life's shifting seasons. And I adored it, adored it, adored it. What I thought maybe we could do today is I took a lot of notes, but there were certain, like just one liners that really stuck out to me, and I thought maybe we could kind of go through some of those one liners and you could expound. Sound good?

[Levi Lusko]

Sounds very good. Thank you for the kind words. I do like the. The flowers on the COVID Feels a little. Feel springish, doesn't it?

[Ginny Urich]

It does, it does.

[Levi Lusko]

Lightly, springly.

[Ginny Urich]

And I also think it's just really pertinent. I think a lot of people feel like they're spiraling, and maybe most. And so I just found it very intriguing.

[Levi Lusko]

The numbers are high. You know, they say the old cliche is midlife crisis, and that's the specific form of spiraling. I wrote the book from the perspective of. But it really does hit you wherever you spiral, because the numbers are strong, that most people are going to have a crisis in life attached to a season of life at some point. Midlife is. I think it's 25% of people will experience directly what they will realize later is a midlife crisis. But there's also what's called a later life crisis, which can hit you in your final stage of life. But then the most right now, believe it or not, Ginny, the most common form of crisis is what they call a quarter life crisis, which globally, life expectancy is 72. In America, we tend to live longer than that. But if you're 18 years of age, you are already at quarter life. If you think about it, you know, 18 to 36, you know, to 72, it's. You're 25% of the way to 72. So it's interesting to think that more and more people are getting to a, you know, I'm out of high school, I'm in college, or I'm out of college, I'm into, you know, the workforce, or I'm, you know, married now and disillusioned or empty nest. You know, there's a lot of different transition points that life can make us feel disequilibrated.

[Ginny Urich]

And this one goes through your story, hitting that spot around 40 and having a lot of different things sort of shift and fall apart. One of the statements that really stuck out to me was about learning the rhythm. You say learning the rhythms. I'm going to quote it exactly. Learning rhythms of stability is huge. And so I think, especially even as Christians, you know, there's the parable of the talents, right, where it's like the one guy buries his and the other people, they double theirs, they get five, they double it, they whatever. And there is this drive, I think, in us to go and do and succeed and all of these types of things. And so you're talking about even as a follower of Christ, that we have to learn these rhythms of stability. You kind of talk about the spiritual side of a slower pace. So can you talk about that little phrase? And you were talking about your own thing that you were going along fine, but you're speaking all the time and you're doing all these things, all of this output and, and it was fine. And then it's not. The bottom drops out.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, I hit the wall at 38 and I ran really hard in my 20s and 30s. So those 18 years, I mean, Jenny and I got married, I was 21, she was 22, first child. We planted a church when we were, I was 24, she was 25 and we drove it like we stole it. We were burning the fuel pedal to the metal for 20 years. Even though Lennox was not very proud of my output, eight books is enough books to have done in a stretch of beard. And really all of my books have been done in a 10 year stretch. My first book came out in 2015, so everything I've written and published is in a decade. And I've traveled the world over 2 million miles on Delta Airlines alone. Not to mention the bad days I've had on other airlines. I'm joking mostly, but you know, Delta.

[Ginny Urich]

Is the winner for sure.

[Levi Lusko]

Once you get a top tier on any airline, any other experience is a downgr just because you get treated well when you're loyal. So I mean, I went to South Africa twice for the weekend in that period of time, literally like 18 hour flights, land in one case, was driven straight to the first speaking engagement, spoke, slept badly, spoke three more times, went straight to the airport, came back, 18 hour flight landed and then went straight into the next thing. And you can do that. And I did it, I did it for a long time and then it's, you know, sugar free Red Bull, the next thing. There was times where I wasn't quite sure where I was. I would, I would be on stage giving a talk and not be completely positive where I was. So I wouldn't say anything about where I was. I was just going. And none of that's bad, it just is not sustainable, as you mentioned, it's not a stable, sustainable rhythm. Partially it was because of what you mentioned, my understanding of the parable of the talents. I don't want to be that guy who's hiding a talent in the ground. I want to be able to tell Jesus, I used my life for you, for your glory. You know, I believe only one life and it's soon going to be passed and only what's done for God will last. And so there's that tension. Then there's also. We experienced grief when our daughter died. She was five and she went to heaven. And part of our unique legacy for her was stewarding her story. And after her death we wrote two books about it through the eyes of a lion and roar like a lion that both, by God's grace, have helped a lot of hurting people, because there's a lot of people just like us who have gone through hard things. And if I'm honest, Ginny, part of my grief response was to bury myself in work that made me feel like I was doing her legacy justice. Which I'm glad about that, because every time someone's been encouraged by hearing Linea's story or knowing about cornea transplant surgery and us raising $100,000 to, you know, pay for blind kids to receive sight in India, like, I'm. I'm proud of all that, but I'm only one person who's mortal and has limits, but to some degree, acted a little bit like that wasn't the case. So I think it's not. It's not either. Or it's not either we sit back and have a margarita in a hammock, or we go and do our work for God. Seriously. I just think, as you mentioned, you have to get to a place where the pace is right. And a lot of that coalesced for me. I didn't really realize how hard I was going and how little I was getting the right rest I needed. And so when it hit, I started having really bad panic attacks at 2am every night at bedtime or when I'd go to sleep, I'd wake up in a frantic, like, almost having a heart attack, almost needing to call 91 1. And I didn't know. I didn't know to go, oh, well, this is a midlife crisis. You're not a young person. You're not an old person. You're in the middle. You're in transition, and you're. You've been just doing a lot, and it's. It's just. It's. You're starting to crack. That was kind of the circumstances. And again, that was 20. 20, 21. 22 was coming out of it. I wrote about it in 23, and now the book's out because it was kind of everything I learned and everything God was teaching me because it never feels like a blessing to Spiral. That's why the title's such a joke. You know, it's like. It doesn't feel like it's blessing, but there is blessing in it if you can learn from it.

[Ginny Urich]

That's why the sentence learning rhythms of stability is huge. It's very hard to figure that out. And you talk a lot about going outside. You know, for you, a lot of the rhythms have been about fly fishing and somehow snowboarding uphill instead of downhill.

[Levi Lusko]

Somehow. Somehow.

[Ginny Urich]

And tennis and hiking and all of these different things. And so this really fits with our audience. I mean, the getting outside, the rest even. I just spoke to John Eldredge. I was like, you're everywhere. I was like, you've written for. I'm like, grabbing out all the John Eldridge books I have because he new one that just came out called Experience Jesus. Really? And then I have all these other John Eldredge books, and it was like, forward by Levi Lusko. I was like, this is fantastic. About the healing power of God's beauty. Okay, so here's a quote. I just thought these were so interesting. This one's from Warren Buffett, because you talk about kind of being a ticking time bomb. You're sort of going, going, going. When the tide goes out, you find out who has been swimming without a bathing suit.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah. Wow, that's a great quote and a lovely visual, right? Yeah. I think it's a crisis that reveals it. You know, you. You oftentimes find out what's in a cup only when it gets bumped. And I didn't realize how little margin I had. I would have said, hey, I take days off. I take trips. But if I'm honest, you know, I would take trips, but I also have a speaking engagement, and I would come straight home into one. My counselor helped me see, because basically, what. When I started cracking up, it was very scary, you know, because I felt so out of control.

[Josh]

And.

[Levi Lusko]

And then the next thing that happened was I. I started to really struggle with apathy. I've never had a lack of vision and drive, and this is it. But I started to feel like I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I see myself continuing in this job. I don't. You know, I don't know if I have anything to say. And I was scared, I think a lot by that. So I did a number of things. I met with my doctor. I wanted to see, like, is this a hormone thing? Is it a testosterone thing? Is it. Is it a imbalance? Blood sugar, Brain scan? Like, I did the. I did a full tip to tail, you know, stress, tested my heart, you know, all the things, and I was healthy. And so that. That was ruled out. I did an intensive counseling and stepped up that. And I think, you know, it was. It was a little bit of everything. It was kind of a thousand paper cuts. It was all the normal intensity of turning 38 and getting to a midlife and going okay. I'm starting to, you know, be on the other side of the hill. Likely I have more life behind me than in front of me. Unless I live to 100, I'm kind of at that spot, and there's just been a lot of pace I've been running at. We planted 11 churches, wrote that, all the books, and then traveled and spoke on, you know, the whole world. And so I think it was just a perfect storm. And it took the pandemic for me, like Warren Buffett says, to find all that out, because all of a sudden, all of that distraction went away, and we were all just left sitting still. And that's when it. You know, what do they say about soldiers? They don't get PTSD when they're in battle. They get it when they come home. Because that's when your body lets you start feeling it. And so I think sitting still and not flying for, you know, the first time, I hadn't gone a month without five, six airplanes in 10 years. All of a sudden, we're home all the time. And it was like, okay. My body felt safe enough to let me feel the mileage.

[Ginny Urich]

The tide goes out. This book is so good. Okay. One of the things that you talk about a lot in this book is about change. The only constant in life is change. And even I was like, this is actually so trippy. I never thought about this in my entire life. Levi. I hate change. I'm like. Personally, I'm just like. I'm freaked out.

[Annie F. Downs]

It's.

[Ginny Urich]

Things are constantly changing. I'd rather. But, you know, growing up, my life didn't change that much. And so I feel like I wasn't very prepared for the amount of change that happened in adulthood. I was like, well, you go to school, and then the next year you go to school, and it's the same thing. Then you have summer vacation. So I don't think I was quite prepared enough for the amount of change. And then you wrote this sentence. I was like, oh, my goodness, you're talking to your friend Stu, who is near the end of his life. It almost reminded me of when you go to have a baby. Like, we had a midwife. And so I always was like, I hope I don't call her too soon. You know, I don't want her sitting at my house for 48 hours if I jump to the gun. But Stu, if he's in hospice or he's sort of nearing the end of his life and he feels bad because maybe he calls people in too soon, and you say, stu, you have never died before. Which she didn't lay up, but it was so trippy to me because I was like, oh, my gosh. Like you end life with something you've never done.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah. He felt so embarrassed. I love Stu. Stu is a longtime part of our church and a good friend and a very, very funny guy, a wild guy. But then, you know, with Parkinson's and everything, he really slowly decayed in front of our eyes. And yet he was still so funny because I would come into the room and see him, and he would grab his walker and pretend to be doing preacher curls with it. Like, he's like, I'm still strong. Like he would be lifting weights with his walker. And then, yeah, he thought he was dying. So he called me and asked me to come over because he thought he was gonna not live through the night. And. And then he was so embarrassed the next day because I. I wasn't able to come the day that he thought he was dying. I came the next morning. And he was so ashamed because he.

[Ginny Urich]

Goes, he was still alive.

[Levi Lusko]

He was embarrassed. He was still here. He was, ah, false. He was. I just saw it in his eyes. Like, I. I could relate to that, you know, because I'm the guy, like, in my counseling appointments, I'm like, wondering, am I saying it right? It's my counselor. Like me. Like, I'm like, you know what I mean? So I was. I understand that. And he goes, I can't believe I didn't die. And I go, stu, you've never died before. Why would you think you're going to be good at it? And he laughed. He goes, you're right. I go, remember the first time you tied your shoes? You weren't good at it. I said, let me just give you the bottom line. You are not going to be good at dying. How can you be? I said, but God is very good at the deaths of his children. He's had a lot of experience, and he's going to be taking care of you. He's got this. And he laughed and smiled, and they fell back asleep. And soon after, he did go to be with Jesus. And I think about that when it comes to my midlife crisis or any trends. Anyone listening who. Maybe it's an empty nest that has made you spiral. The loss of a job, a move across country, or maybe you don't even know why you're spiraling, but you are. It could be in response to a good thing, something you even wanted. You wanted a. You wanted to get married, but now you. You're it, you're in it, and you're just confused as to why you're feeling the way you are. And I think the answer is you've never been here before. It's new territory, so relax a little bit and cut yourself some slack.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. And it just changed my perspective. The change goes all the way until the very very end, when at the very very end, you're doing something you've never done before.

[Josh]

Hey, friends, I'm Annie F. Downs, author, speaker, podcaster, and part of the that Sounds Fun Network, and I'm a big fan of seeing God move in our lives. Can we talk for a second about what it really means to be a person of faith? It's waking up every day and choosing to trust him even when life feels uncertain. It's standing firm in truth, walking in grace, and knowing that God is always with us. But I know staying rooted in faith is not always easy. At least it isn't for me. And that's why I love Glorify, the number one Christian devotional app designed to help you start, grow and strengthen your relationship with God every single day. One of the things I love about Glorify is the amount of options available to me through the app every day. Not only does it help me kick off my time with God with their daily devotional, but there's a song of the day to listen to and a community of other users available to engage with. It's really cool. With Glorify, you can begin your morning in scripture, reflect with the daily devotional, and end the day with the daily walk with God, this immersive experience that quiets your heart and refocuses your spirit. It's one of my favorite hacks, something simple but powerful that keeps you anchored when life gets busy. And since we're shining a light on women this month, let's celebrate the strength, faith, and stories of women who inspire us every day. And for the men listening, think about how you're uplifting the women of faith in your life. Join me and over 20 million believers who have found encouragement through Glorify. Download the app today@glorified app.com podcast and let's keep walking in faith together again. That's glorified-app.com podcast.

[Annie F. Downs]

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[Ginny Urich]

So when talking about change, you quoted this or you talked about this essay by C.S. lewis. I've never heard of this one called the Inner Ring. And this is fascinating. Fascinating about how like you know, something changes and you think you're gonna you're there. Can you talk to us about the inner ring?

[Levi Lusko]

Oh, man. When I first heard the concept of the inner ring, I felt like, oh, now I understand my entire life. Like, I feel like I understand myself. He talks about how we always wish we were where we weren't. No matter where we were, we always believe there's his. He was speaking specifically socially. You know, maybe you. You make some friends and. But then you realize, oh, there's an inner ring of cooler people. You know, it's the cool kids table, basically. Wherever I'm at, it's fine. But if I could get into that crew, if I could. If I could hang with them, then I would be, like, really in. And it's just this. This perpetual human desire for more and for. I'm, you know, oh, I finally, you know, I could fly in first class. Oh, but there's people who have their own planes, you know, it's like there's another level. Solomon wrote a whole book about it called Ecclesiastes. And I think until you discover that where you are is where God has you and find the contentment and the gratitude to plant your feet right there and stop striving and stop the, you know, restless. The bad side of ambition. Because everything I was talking about earlier, there's a healthy side and an unhealthy side. There's a. A bright side and a shadow side. And the bigger a gift, the longer the shadow it casts. So I don't think ambition's bad. I don't think the answer is, well, then let's just all just park it and chill. I think we have to find the good side and the bad side of it. But until we can say, hey, I'm content, like Paul said, I have learned the secret of contentment. To have or to not have, to be hungry or to be full. I can do all things through Christ, who gives me strength. Until we say that and realize I don't have to go anywhere else to be content, then wherever God takes us and wherever our gifts allow us and our work allows us to go, we can be content there. We're not needing it or being defined by it. Right the moment. I like, oh, I need this podcast to be really downloaded a million times, or I need if that's somehow going to change me. I mean, there's that great quote in Spider man where he says, I need that suit. I'm nothing without it. And then Tony Stark says to Spider man, if you're nothing without it, you're nothing with it. It's basically this. If you need it to be something. It's never going to do for you what you hope it will.

[Ginny Urich]

And I think it just. It goes into this thought of, like, you say, like, you get to the next ring and then you're like, oh, wait, no, there's more that sometimes, or maybe even oftentimes with success, these other burdens come along with it. Like you. You're talking about these questions maybe that people bring up during midlife crisis, but also they might bring up after they've had success. Like, have I peaked? Are my best days behind me? You even said, and I didn't know this. Hans Zimmer said he lives in constant terror that one day his phone will stop ringing. And I just read this autobiography by Steve Martin, the comedian Steve Martin. And he was talking about, how about his rise to ascension? You know, he was speaking in clubs and there was zero people there. No one. No one's in the audience. And he. And they say, well, we still need you to get up there in case somebody comes in. So he's doing a comedy act to a room of zero people. He gets. He peaks, he hits 40,000. He's selling out these huge stadiums. And then he said, in time, he said, I started to see something I hadn't seen in years. A couple empty seats here and there, you know, and then you're sort of on the downward slope of that. So could you talk. I mean, I know you've had, you know, all these books, all these things that you've done about that part of success that people might not be aware of.

[Levi Lusko]

Oh, absolutely. You know, I think that's the shadow side of success. And specifically, if we could separate it, where you're defined by it right where you need this to be. And I think that's really the creep of. And the seduction of identity. For me as a Christian, my identity I want, and on my best day, it's only defined by God's love for me and that I'm created in his image and I have value and worth and dignity without having done anything, I didn't earn it. This is God the Father saying to Jesus, behold, my beloved Son, in whom I'm well pleased. And he said it before Jesus did any ministry. So he hadn't cast out a demon, he hadn't preached a sermon, he hadn't died on the cross. He's just loved. So Jesus didn't go out to try and do anything, to get like, is that good, God? Is that good, Father? You know, he already had that love. The. The dove rested on him at baptism. So he did his ministry not to be something, but because he already had something. And the first temptation the devil gave him in the wilderness was, if you turn these rocks into bread, you're. You'll really be God's son if you are the Christ. If you. If you. If you. It was. He was trying to get him to audition for what he already had. And I know this is a roundabout answer to your question, but I think Jesus knew I don't have to do anything to be anything. I already have something I can't lose because the Father loves me. So every sermon he gave, it was from a full place, not an empty place. The devil wants us to do everything we do out of an empty place. And the empty place is, if I can just get into this school, if I can just make this much money, if I can just get a blue check mark, if I can just get invited to the right parties or go to the right conferences or be, you know, in with whoever. That inner ring thing. And if we're doing it for those reasons, not only will it not deliver, but we will also have to inevitably reckon with the decline of the other side of the hill. I mean, who. Who won the Heisman in 1973? Who won the Academy Award for Best Actor in 1989? You know what I mean? Like, but on that day, for that person, it felt like the moment of all moments, but the back nine of life. It was Hans Zimmer's point and that. I didn't say it to shame him. I said it because, like, oh my gosh, I feel so seen in that sentence. Yes, yes, he's done all these great movies, but he's like, what. What. What if I. What if I don't have any? What if my greatest days are behind me? What if the phone stops ringing? What if no one wants me to make their next the thing? And. And I think that the reason that pings something on the inside of me is because to the degree that I need to do in order to be, I have attached my value to something that's vulnerable. Because the days coming when I'm going to be like, stuff lying there in that bed, dying badly. And if I am only as good as my last sermon, if I'm only as prolific as my last book, which for me, my first book I ever wrote, is the highest selling book I've ever written. Okay? So every, Every book after that has been a failure, if you want to look at it that way, because it hasn't been up into the right from my first one. So it's an interesting mind game to be in. And that's why I try and write without a book contract, because I don't want the business and performance aspect of it to be looming over me. It would pollute the well. So I wrote Blessed Are the spiraling in 2023. My agent didn't know about it. My publisher didn't know about it. They didn't even give me permission to write it. I just wrote it. I wrote it because it was for me. If I deleted it at the end of it, I would have been fine. I went to the top of a mountain physically and came up with the whole concept. And that's why the book is kind of all about mountain. We talk about being 40 is over the hill and just kind of. It was for me a very cathartic inward journey of taking some of the lessons I learned in that time. Of what about when I'm not a highly sought after speaker? You know what I mean? Like, will I still matter? And having to answer some of those hard existential questions helped me come to a place of going, hey, I'm loved, like Jesus said, not because of what I do. And now if I now I can write and I can lead and I can create out of a whole place, not out of a. I need this to do something or be something, if that makes sense.

[Ginny Urich]

Levi, that's so interesting about your books. I didn't know that. We talk about like hanging on. And I think it would be easy to be like, well, I'm not going to put this one out because the last one didn't do as good as the one before. And yet there's still something so compelling, such a message that's so compelling to get out in this book. Blessed are the spiraling.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, it's interesting because you normally would think, okay, my first book wouldn't be very good. The second one would get a little better, third one get better. But I mean, and I've sold. All the books we've written have sold copies, but none so much as through the Eyes of a Lion, which is the first book ever. And so if it's only a business mentality, that's an intimidating thing because then you're trying to recapture Lightning in a bottle.

[Annie F. Downs]

Yeah.

[Levi Lusko]

So the better place to be is just, hey, this is art. A, I'm writing art. It's, it's, it's hopefully in service of people. I'm probably not the only one who spiraled and needs to understand there's blessing in it and to be Set free from some of the patterns that were at play that. That caused me to want to write the book. You know, if I'm only doing it. I love that Jesus fed 4,000 people after 5,000. His biggest feeding miracle came first, and then later he did a 4,000. And part of me goes, jesus, couldn't you have found two more thousand people so that it could have been five than seven? You know, but instead of five, then four, but you know what? Those 4,000 people needed to be fed next. And so I kind of love the idea of just, hey, God, whatever you want for me, if it's. If it's a couple. I gave a sermon to, you know, 20 people at a house church in India that's not going on YouTube and getting 30,000 views. But those 20 people needed to hear about Jesus. And so I think just whatever God has in front of us and not let it be defined by the attention, the notoriety, the applause, all those things.

[Ginny Urich]

That's really good. Well, it's interesting because it reminds me of what you wrote about. You wrote about comparison. And I'd never heard anybody else talk about this in this way. Levi. Like, there's the part where the disciples are arguing, like, who. Who's going to be the greatest? Right? And so then everyone's always like, well, don't be that person. Don't be the one that cares about being the greatest and be the servant. But you're like, no, that's not the problem. Like, we can be great, but the problem is attempting to be better than others. So you're talking about this comparison between people. Do your thing, run your race, but also even comparison to other seasons of your life.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, that's the tension, okay? Because in life, Stephen Covey said there are problems to solve and tensions to manage. Meaning, okay, a problem to solve is the air conditioner is broken. Let's fix the air conditioner. Okay? The tension is, okay, we only have so much money, so we can't run this place like an icebox in the summer. But we do want it to be livable in here. And we can't sleep when it's 90. Okay? So maybe we don't set it to 66 in the summer when it's 110. We set it to, you know, 79 and take the edge off. Okay? That's managing attention. When we talk about Christian ambition, it's easy to just Jesus, duke it and go, how dare they want to be great. Those disciples should have just been worried about feeding orphans. They shouldn't want to be Great. Well, hold on a second. You started our conversation with the parable of the talents. The guy who got, you know, just threw his talent in the ground did not get rewarded. God wants us to take what we've been given and do something great with it. So if it's within you to start the next Walmart or Apple or Amazon, it's not honoring God just to be like all shucks, I'll just go, you know, just pray for orphans. No, if it's within you to create a company or a church or a best selling, whatever, the ambition's not the problem. It's benchmarking yourself based on someone else or like you said, a previous season of your own life. So it's not that it's bad for me to want to write a great book or lead a great church or write a great book poem or be the best horseback rider I can be. The problem is when I start looking to the right and going, okay, as long as I'm better than so and so. As long as I'm did I sell more books than, you know, this other speaker or for my own thing? Well, I can't write again because it's never going to sell as many as my first book did. So I'll just, you know, so I have to not even look at my own self and just say, God, what do you want me to do today? What do you want me to do today? How can I get a return on investment in the talents you gave me?

[Ginny Urich]

Yes, you talk about just small seeds throughout this book. Many of Jesus's recorded miracles were interruptions.

[Levi Lusko]

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[Josh]

I can say to my new Samsung.

[Levi Lusko]

Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto.

[Ginny Urich]

Friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.

[Tia]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Levi Lusko]

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[Ginny Urich]

Check responses for accuracy.

[Annie F. Downs]

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[Ginny Urich]

So, talking about seasons in life, one of my favorite verses is in here. This is one of my, this is actually one of my all time favorite verses.

[Levi Lusko]

Oh, I'm dying to hear.

[Ginny Urich]

Go to the ant, you sluggard.

[Levi Lusko]

Ooh, Proverbs 8.

[Ginny Urich]

First of all, I just think it's funny. I mean, I think anybody who thinks the Bible is like dry and doesn't have anything for you, I mean, it's fantastic and I actually think it's a great, like teens like that, you know, go to the aunt, you sluggard. Consider her ways and be wise. She has no overseer or ruler, yet she gathers, you know, gathers her food in the summer and harvests in the winter. And you talked about it from the frank standpoint of seasonality. I think about it from the standpoint of entrepreneurship. No one's telling that aunt what to do, no chief or overseer. And yet that aunt knows what to do. And so I talk about this one sometimes at homeschooling conferences because I think there's value when you have some downtime and there's boredom and you have to decide for yourself. Without a chief or overseer, how are you going to steer your own life. But this point of seasonality, this comes up in the Bible a lot. And how cool that God gave us seasons. I mean, I just think what a God, you know, like it's all the pictures and the, the seeds and the sower. I mean, it's all, it's like he embedded his principles like in the earth so that we can teach our kids about them. I just, I think it's just such a cool thing that God did. But you wrote about here's a worthy goal, prepare but also be willing to adjust.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, Yeah. I think unless you live in Maui, you know, you have in nature a little microcosm of your life every year. You know, from the vibrancy and the newness of spring to the gorgeous loveliness of summer, to the, you know, waning time of autumn, and then of course, to the somewhat death like picture of winter, everything kind of is suspended and shrinks back. And, you know, there are seasons to life too. You know, we all love the prime, we all love the strength of the summer of life, peak life. And I think that's kind of what we all want. We want in this culture, especially if we don't believe in heaven and if we don't believe in the resurrection and life after death, there, of course is going to be the glorification of summer. And we're going to basically try and sprint towards it and then stay there, you know, when that's just not how it works. The ant only gets to have food in winter because it laid it up in summer. And so I think it's really important to enjoy the season you're in, not to rush. Certainly, you know, to the parents of young kids who are like, oh, I just want them to crawl, I want them to walk, dude, they're going to. They're going to be there before you know it and it's going to be gone, you know, so even though there's a difficulty to every season, there's also a glory to it. And when that season's over, the same parent that was rushing their kid, I always want them to grow up, is going to kick themselves because they wish they had taken better advantage of the season while they were there. So we all either are trying to look backwards to a previous season, we're rushing towards the next season, or we're hating the season we're in instead of just going, hey, this season is to be appreciated for the beauty of it, the way it's fleeting, the season you're in that you don't like, it's fleeting. Blinking, it's going to be gone. So find the beauty of it. And then also here's the other side of it is every season is not only an opportunity to enjoy the present, it's also a chance to prepare for the future while learning from the past. So you're only going to have the benefit of this, to use the ants again of whatever you laid up in one season for the next. So one very practical example I point to in the book is, you know, a lot of us are ignorant or in denial about the fact that we're going to die. So many people like, la la la la, like, head in the sand that 72% of Americans don't have a will. Literally don't even have a will, Meaning there is no plan for their estate. And, well, you go, oh, well, what state is there? What estate is there? Well, are you a parent of kids that's a pretty important estate. You have kids? Well, I don't have a lot of money. Okay, well, who's going to be their guardian if you and your wife die at the same time or you and your husband die at the same time? Oh, that wouldn't happen. Really. It happens all the time. And if both you and your spouse die, the state's going to pick who their guardian is and not you. And if you just take the 20 minutes. I mean, we partnered with an organization, our church, to give people a free will. If people go to FreshLife Church, literally in 20 minutes, you can have a legally binding will by going to the Give page on the donate page on FreshLife Truth, they go down to the bottom. We partner with this organization that helps people put together free wills through our partnership with them. And it's amazing what can happen when Christians just take 20 minutes and go, I'm going to actually do this. And not only for your kids, but also to direct giving, to give to your favorite nonprofit. How do you want your resources to live on and make a difference for the kingdom towards what values align your heart with? So even just something like that, that taking the practical step to create a will will cause you to be more grounded in the present. Because Psalm 139 says that if you teach me to know my end, help me to have a heart of wisdom. So just sitting down and thinking about life after you're dead will cause you to be better at living while you're here in the present.

[Ginny Urich]

That's another one of my favorite verses. Teach us to number our days that we may gain a heart of wisdom. It's so good. And I just think it's such a cool verse like, go to the ant. Everyone can go to an ant. Now. It's probably on your kitchen counter. I mean, you know, like, they're everywhere.

[Levi Lusko]

Go outside. And we're getting our thousand hours, too. At the same time.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. Unless it's like in your kitchen, which sometimes they are. But, you know, it's interesting. It's like God saying, go to the. Obviously, there are smaller things than ants, right? You know, you can use microscope, but for the most part, like this one of the smallest critters that you encounter in the. In all these insects, it's an ant. So it's like, go to the ant. Go to the smallest thing, and you're going to learn. You're going to learn about seasonality and preparing and making some of your own decisions and not waiting around for someone else to tell you what to do or where to go. So I loved that that verse was in there.

[Levi Lusko]

Well, and even just the simplification of your resources when someone dies. I just recently my dad went to be with Jesus in April of last year and we had to figure out all this stuff, right? The study is that the average person, when they die, their loved ones will have to spend 300 hours figuring out their stuff. Meaning closing down the estate, going through the garage, you know, having to, you know, 300 hours all together to figure out end of life. And the more you can do that while you're alive, the easier of a time your kids will have, you know, think about, you know, pre planning your funeral, stuff like that, to just. They're already going to be so sad when you die to have to compound that with all of the other decisions, you know, so Jen and I already bought our grave plot. We know where we're going to be buried. That's just one less thing for my kids to have to mess with when we go to be with Jesus. It's an act of service and it's being like an ant. Meaning we're using this season to prepare for the next season so that everybody's benefited.

[Ginny Urich]

There is a new book coming out called the Good Death and I'm interviewing the author later this week. And it was really interesting. I mean, she talked through having a plan for, you know, the last days and then your funeral. Some people call it a funeral, you know, like they want to have dancing there, they want it to be like a party. And there's all these worksheets actually that you fill out. And I thought it was a pretty amazing resource.

[Levi Lusko]

We did a luau for my dad, he was all into Hawaii, he loved all that. So we did. Everyone had leis on and we, you know, had Hawaiian music going for the party afterwards. Pretty fun.

[Ginny Urich]

So the book is coming out exactly a year after your dad passed away. Was that on purpose?

[Levi Lusko]

It's actually really neat because the book is dedicated to my father and even though I finished it in 23, literally. This is. Jenny, this is crazy. I finished the book and two days later my dad got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And then the next year, 2024, I spent that year editing, continuing to refine, research, etc. And it was pretty much submitted fully, like the week before. He went to be with Jesus in 2024 and now it's releasing on the one year anniversary of his death in 2025. So it's poetic in a weird way, in a cool way. And it's a new Spiral. So the spiral I talk about in the book that I found blessing in was midlife crisis. And then the death of my dad, who was my best friend, was almost a new spiral. And that's how the book kind of ends. Not to spoil anything for people, but it ends with me basically saying, well, here I am in another spiral because grief's another spiral. But my big thesis in the book that, you know, I don't want to give it all away, but is that your spirals don't have to take you down. They can take you up. And so I'm trying to say, hey, this is hard. But my dad dying created a new spiral of, okay, now I'm the tallest branch in my family tree. I don't have anybody protecting me anymore in that way physically. And yet there's blessing in it, because now I can learn from my father. And he taught me how to live. He taught me how to die. He lived and served others in his life. And so I love that there's even in God's providence an overlap of his life with it.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, that timing is very profound. I was actually, like, jaw dropped. The timing of when the book releases and when he had passed away and even when he had called and told you that he had pancreatic cancer, all of that was in there. This book is so good you had even talked about. It was something that Louie Giglio says, which I did have him on our show once. We love his devotionals. And he's got this big map thing, the atlas.

[Levi Lusko]

Oh, the atlas. Did you have him on for the atlas, or was it indescribable?

[Ginny Urich]

Nope, we had him on for grace and glory, but we'd already had all of his other stuff. And I'm fairly certain that we name dropped you because it was really hard to get him. And I was already such a huge fan. I don't know for sure, but we had to beg for that one, and it was wonderful.

[Levi Lusko]

He's a busy, busy guy. He runs busy. But. But he also is just the warmest, most loving. He's. He's like a spiritual father to me. And. And, you know, there's. There's no one I hold in higher regard than. Than Louis and Shelley Giglio.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. And you had had this quote in here where he, like, you just said, I'm the top of the family tree. But you said. He said, SAP flows both ways. And it's maple syrups where we're at. It's maple tapping time, and everyone's making syrup. What a cool. What another cool Thing, you know, just, it's like God's world. It has all of these lessons in it. So the SAP can flow up and it can flow down. You know, children can bless their parents and parents can bless their children. I thought that was really profound.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, that's chapter five, I think, which is I replaced my mom with pornography and a wild title of a chapter. But I've talked about how I connected some dots and learned how my childhood trauma shaped me through some counseling that I had to do because of the midlife crisis that exposed some things I had neglected to get healed. And in surfacing those things, I was able afterwards to have some non judgmental conversations with both my parents and tell them how I had connected these dots in counseling, but then how God was healing them. And I was able to share lessons with them. And it was interesting because, you know, you could of course have that conversation that could be defensive and be like, well, you're saying I broke you, you know, or whatever. But it was not that way. It was, hey, this is what I realized impacted me from our. From these things. And then the conversation was insightful because they were then going, oh, well, I didn't realize that. And then they were able to talk about how from their childhood, some of these things led to those patterns in their life that impacted me. And it was almost like Louis was saying, normally you think, well, parents give SAP to their saplings, but in that sense, God was able to funnel SAP from me to them. And that's really powerful.

[Ginny Urich]

And what a thing, what a thing that your dad was your best man in your wedding. I mean, that's almost unheard of. I've hardly heard of that. And you had broken family relationships as a young child. And so I think that gives people a lot of hope. Two last things before we wrap it up. There is so much in this book. I have five pages of notes. It, like, filled my soul. It filled my soul reading it. And I felt at the end like I'm so thrilled that I read it. It was a great book. It gave me a lot to think about, a lot to go back to. I mean, I really cannot speak more highly of it. It's called Blessed Are the Spiraling how the Chaotic Search for Significance Can Lead to Joy Through Life's Shifting Seasons. It will be available by the time this podcast goes live. Also, when you're over getting your will done, check out the movement conference or I don't even know, I'll put a separate link. It's an amazing thing that you guys do in the summer. Bring your teens, bring your youth group. Two last things. There's a lot in here about going outside. I saw the most epic sunrise. It was a banger. But heaven will outdo it. Even just stuff like that. I think just talking about end of life and looking forward to those days when I've heard people say, oh, really? It was at one pastor. Heaven will be very similar, but vastly superior. Very similar. Vastly superior. And you talk about the Fibonacci sequence. I love the Fibonacci sequence, but I didn't know that it was in a ram's horn. And so you go through all these cool stories in the Bible where you're like, the Fibonacci sequence was there. It was with Gideon. And it was when the walls of Jericho came down. I mean, it was. I thought that was really a neat thing, like God's beauty is even in math.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, I love that. And I'm trying to make the point because earlier on the book, I established this sequence where I talk about hardships and spiraling seasons being like running into a wall. And so I repeat over and over again, especially earlier in the book, smack. I. I say, you know, your dad has smack. You get divorced, smack. You turn 40 and you lose your hair, or you, you know, your figure, your metabolism slows down, you gain weight, smack. So at the end of the book, I'm trying to. It's kind of my Christopher Nolan homage where I'm trying to tenant it. And now it's like, I bring back that theme, only it's not smack. It's spiral. But it's not spiral in a bad sense. It's spiral in a worship sense and in a growth sense. And in a. I'm going up a staircase, not down a spiral staircase. So when I discovered. I literally jumped out of my chair when I realized, oh, my gosh, the Fibonacci sequence, which is the mathematical formula that gives us a spiral, which is found in galaxy snail shells, it's in the embryo.

[Ginny Urich]

I mean, it's so cool. Pine cones. Yes.

[Levi Lusko]

So then to say, okay, wait, if the spiral is in the ramshorn, which is what the Jewish people used in worship, that means there was a spiral every time the ram's horn was blown. Walls of Jericho falling down the year of jubilee, all those times. And. And I believe because of first Thessalonians 4, when Jesus returns, the sound of a trumpet will be a spiral sound. So. So we can say there's not just spiraling in your pain, they're spiraling in your breakthrough, basically, is the point of that.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, I loved that.

[Levi Lusko]

So I'm glad you nerded out, because that's, like, my favorite section.

[Ginny Urich]

Pretty nerdy, that section, because it's all over the place. And it's. I mean, it's a really cool thing that you can teach kids about. You even talk about sometimes when you're spiraling.

[Annie F. Downs]

Like, you're.

[Ginny Urich]

You're bumping into other people who are spiraling. And you were. There was a really funny sentence, and I can't find it in my notes because I have so many notes, but you were talking about, like, you're spiraling and Jenny spiraling, and she's launching a book, and, you know, you're having these panic attacks, and you're bumping into each other, and then you were like. And then she broke her ankle on Mother's Day. Mother's Day.

[Levi Lusko]

That was terrible, because it was a.

[Ginny Urich]

Sentence that said something like, of course we would find a way. Oh, here, I found it. I found it. We had found a way for things to get worse, which, like, I think that most people would 100% relate to that sentence. Like, oh, things are bad. And then you're like, oh, nope, it just.

[Levi Lusko]

No, it's true. That one is bad. And also, we all got lice after Linya died. So Lynia Linea went to heaven on December 20, January 2. We were still in the depths of grief, and then we got head lice. All of us in our house got head lice. Then we all got sick, and I was like, dude, can the book of Job, like, stop? Because it was so bad. Like, we're combing lice out of our hair and, you know, sick. And it was like, oh, man. So, yeah, there. There. There's always another level.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. Yeah. The last thing I wanted to bring up, which I thought was so cool, and actually there was kind of, like, several. I feel like this was a theme throughout the book and really a theme throughout your life. Like, if people are following on social media or following kind of what you guys are doing. But you're talking about this time when Lisa Harper came over, and she really helped. You know, you're both struggling, and she comes in with these takeaways for you, and people can read that in your book, but that are really powerful for you. And then you start the book off with Phil Wickham and you're hiking. And I think the biggest thing that stuck out to me is that, like, she was over. Like, it happened because she was with you, and the situation with Phil happened because you were Together. And I just think that that's a. You model that, and that's a big piece that's missing today. It's like, it makes you think, if I don't invest into relationships, if I don't have people over to sit on my swing, if I don't go on these hikes, what am I missing? Like, what. What parts where, like, we're rubbing shoulders and they're helping me or I'm helping them. And I think it's incredible that you do that. Like, you're so busy, but yet you're still really investing in solid relationships.

[Levi Lusko]

Well, I'm less busy than ever because I've retooled. I'm saying, no, I'm doing less. I'm doing. I'm doing things. I'm doing the right things, but I'm not just frenetically busy. And yes, prioritizing friendships is so important. People in your life that you can look in the eyes and that you cannot be fake with. You know, because we all have those people who are like, how are you doing? I'm doing great. You know, it's like. But to be like, hey, no, come on. How's it really going? And be like, actually, it's pretty tough. And, okay, great. Well, let's be honest. And I think, you know, sitting on the. On the. On the swing with Lisa, listening to the trees in the wind, or hiking up a mountain, picking huckleberries and being honest about how confused we feel about, you know, being 40, that's really important. And loneliness is as bad as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, they say. So to have friendships is a wealth greater than, you know, anything you can have on this earth.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. And I'm thankful that you model that. That you model adventure, that you model getting outside. Josh and I talk about that. Like, we talk about, you know, obviously we've never. Well, we have met in person, but, like, we haven't spent a time.

[Levi Lusko]

Yeah, we have. In Florida at the Gaylord.

[Ginny Urich]

Well, twice we met in person twice. I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah, we spoke at the same conference, and we. We were on a homework tour. But, like, you know, to look in from the outside, you can see, like, you can see that you value these things that are life giving. And I know that you get up and you preach God's word, but you also show it by how you live and how to have priorities. And I'll end with this last thing about priorities because I just loved it. You were talking about how an investor was asked by his Pilot how to set priorities. So, like, well, come up with your top 25 priorities. So the person does. Then they're like, okay, we'll narrow it down to the top five. So, okay, I've got my top five. And they're like, okay, well you're gonna wrap your life around the top five. And then they're thinking, okay, and then I'll just fit in the other 20 wherever I can. Like, no, no, the other 20 are out. Because they're gonna take you away from the life you really want.

[Levi Lusko]

Avoid em at all costs. He said, wow.

[Ginny Urich]

At all costs.

[Annie F. Downs]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urich]

I love. I grew up reading a lot of Christian books and I like Christian books. I really specifically love yours and I love Jenny's because they have God's word and they give good direction and they're very real. They're very real. Like, who writes a book about their panic attacks? I mean, you do.

[Levi Lusko]

I wish I didn't have them to write about. But, you know, that's what they are. So luckily there's for anybody going through them, they have this now to read, you know, because there's lots of people going through that darkness.

[Annie F. Downs]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urich]

Levi, it's been wonderful. What an honor. Thank you so much for being here.

[Levi Lusko]

Ginny, you're the best. And I congratulate you on 10 million downloads and such a joy to watch what you're doing. Thank you for your voice. It's amazing.

[Ginny Urich]

Let's be real. Talking about intimacy can be awkward, even with your spouse. But it doesn't have to be. We are Alana, Kyle, and Tia, hosts of the Kingdom Sexuality podcast, and we're all about keeping it real and helping you add some spice and deeper connection into your marriage. Specifically, when it comes to what happens.

[Levi Lusko]

In the bedroom, we don't shy away from the tough conversations that often get missed in Christian circles. With us, you'll get laughs, tips, fresh ideas, and challenges to strengthen your relationship and bring it to the next level.

[Ginny Urich]

Because let's face it, navigating intimacy as a Christian can be confusing. And finding safe, wholesome resources can be tough.

[Tia]

So subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or.

[Levi Lusko]

Wherever you get your podcasts, and join.

[Ginny Urich]

Us each week on the Kingdom Sexuality Podcast Podcast.

[Tia]

You know, over time, life can get you down. Discouragement starts to creep in, and eventually we just stop letting ourselves hope for more. We say things like, I'll believe it when I see it and don't get your hopes up. Sounds like good grown up advice, right? Actually, it's not. Hey, I'm Christy Wright. Number one national best selling author, speaker, business coach, and mom of three. Oh, and I have a podcast called get yout Hopes up, which is what I want to tell you about. Romans 15:13 says, May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by power of the Holy Spirit. And that is exactly what my show is about. Whether I'm telling one of my latest crazy God stories or giving you practical advice to live out your faith, I love hanging out with you every Monday to help you get to know God, get closer to him, and get your hopes up again. Listen to get your hopes up wherever you get your podcasts and you can learn [e-mail] that's get your hopes up.com.