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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 483: Real Joy Is Found in Ordinary Places | Tauren Wells, Joy Bomb
01:01:25
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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Ginny Urich
Hey friends. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited for today's episode because I'm joined by the incredibly talented Torrin Wells. We have such a rich conversation about parenting, purpose, faith, and what it means to live aligned with what matters most. But before we dive in, I need to share something from my heart. Tomorrow is a big day. My new book, homeschooling. You're doing it right Just by doing it officially launches. And I'll be honest, I'm feeling all the emotions. This book is deeply personal. It's for every parent who wonders if they're doing enough, for the families who've stepped off the beaten path, and for anyone who's interested in diving into this homeschooling journey. It's full of encouragement, truth and reminders that what you're doing, even when it feels ordinary or sometimes even if it feels insufficient, matters more than you know. If this podcast or the 1000 hours outside movement has ever encouraged you, I'd be so grateful if you'd support the book by pre ordering today or grabbing a copy tomorrow. First week sales really matter. They help the book reach new readers and let my publisher know this message matters. The easiest way to find it, Just type Ginny Urich. Wherever you buy your books, it'll pop right up. G I N N Y Y U R I C H and if you love it, share it with a friend. Post about it. Tell your homeschool group all of that helps more than you know. And one last thing, reviews are gold. They help the message reach more families. And I read every single one. Whether it's a quick rating or a few words, it means the world. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for being a part of this movement. And now let's dive into this powerful conversation with Torrin Wells.
- [02:10]
Jenny Urich
Here we go. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urich and my kids think I'm the coolest. And I am feeling pretty cool as well, because Torn Wells is here with us today. Welcome, Torin.
- [02:22]
Torrin Wells
What's up? How you doing?
- [02:24]
Jenny Urich
Doing so good. We're such huge fans, Huge fans of yours, huge fans of your music and huge fans of your brand new book which is called Joy Bomb. Unleash Jesus's explosive joy for an extraordinary life. You are a celebrated platinum selling recording artist, multi instrumentalist songwriter with 10 Grammy Awards, six number ones, eight GMA Dev Awards, Billboard Music Award nomination, and over 1.2 billion global streams. When did it kick off? You said you're interested in music as a kid.
- [02:56]
Torrin Wells
Yeah.
- [02:57]
Jenny Urich
With your family and all that stuff?
- [02:59]
Torrin Wells
Yes. Grew up in a very musical household. My dad loved music, so we had keyboards and guitars and different people coming in and out of the house, from saxophone players to rappers and just fell in love with music. Started going to church when I was 9 years old and got to be in the choir and actually got to be in the adult choir as a kid and loved it. And the love for music and the love for the Lord and the church really grew from there. And God just continued to open doors for me to write songs and sing them to people and do ministry. And so that has led me here, talking to you today.
- [03:44]
Jenny Urich
It's wonderful. And the book is honest about, you know, some of your hardships on the journey. You talk about sort of the darker side of success and Christianity criticisms and all of those types of things. But this book, it's so good. It's about the Beatitudes. Yeah. And I learned so much. Even you hear about them all the time growing up and you're like, oh yeah. And I think I know about the Beatitudes. And then the way that you reframe the wording first of all with the chapter titles. And also I learned so many details that I didn't know before and also have never thought about it in terms of happiness because it's like, blessed are the, blessed are the. But in the. I've got this amplified classic version of the Bible and it really does use the word happy. Like it says blessed happy, spiritually prosperous. Blessed. I guess nobody uses that word hardly. They say be blessed.
- [04:32]
Torrin Wells
Yeah.
- [04:33]
Jenny Urich
So you're talking about joy and happiness. So can you talk about this? It's a really good framing for today's language.
- [04:41]
Torrin Wells
Yeah. Thank you so much. And it means a lot that you've read it and taken time with it. I love that. I appreciate that so much. It adds a lot of value to our conversation because like you, I think a lot of us assume that we know the topic of joy. We assume we understand happiness God's way. And there are a lot of assumptions that we make that Even church culture has led us to make about joy and happiness that are actually not aligned with the Scripture or, or for what Jesus really wanted to teach us, what he really wanted us to experience. And what arrested my heart was that this was the first thing Jesus chose to talk about in his first recorded sermon on planet Earth. And I thought, okay, if we can all agree that even if you don't believe in Jesus, you would believe and probably agree with the fact that Jesus taught the most important message on Joy Way ever. We would say he taught that message, but we wouldn't be able to really point to where did he teach this message on joy. And that's what struck me about the Beatitudes. He taught it on the Sermon on the Mount. And then we have to think, how important must our happiness be to God himself if it's the first thing he chooses to talk about in his first recorded sermon. So I want people to kind of get past all of our preconceived notions about what happiness and joy are. I want us to get past the lie that Christians can't be happy, that people can't be happy, that this is somehow unattainable for us or off limits. A lot of us have this religious reflex that joy is for other people. Happiness for. Is for other people and not for me. But Jesus is saying, this is actually a part of my character. It's a part of my nature. And this is how you experience those things. And, and Joy Bomb walks through those codes that allow us to experience explosive joy.
- [06:58]
Jenny Urich
I love it. I love that it's the word codes. Because you talk about how our joy is under attack. Life isn't neutral. It's constantly throwing challenges and disappointments and losses our way and that we're being marketed joy from companies.
- [07:10]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [07:11]
Jenny Urich
Can you talk about how that's like kind of that's off, that that's not the right code?
- [07:15]
Torrin Wells
Yes, absolutely. It's called joy marketing. And once you. It's like the FedEx symbol. When you see the arrow in the FedEx symbol, you can never unsee it. You realize that these multimillion dollar, some billion dollar companies have repackaged our desires and sold them back to us as commodities. And even with things like Coca Cola, which I'm more of a Zevia guy myself, because I, I'm trying to stay away from the sugar. But no, no, no hate against Coca Cola. But one of their big mantras and campaigns was open happiness. You know, open happiness. As if happiness is something that can be accessed and consumed externally. We, we just see it as kind of marketing. But we don't realize that we are constantly bombarded with this joy marketing. It's the next vacation, it's the next Coke, it's the next drink, it's the next achievement, it's the next promotion. One thing that it does is it always keeps happiness somewhere out in front of us to where we're never actually happy because we always think it's in the next thing. So we rob ourselves of being happy in the present because we think joy is somewhere off in the future. And then the other thing is, I think it truly conditions the amount of marketing. 93% of marketing is, is joy marketing. It gives us this false notion and makes us believe that somehow we can attain and consume joy. It changes our psyche. And that's our spirituality. That's our mind, will and emotions. And so it's impacting us on a greater level. And I think one of the quotes in the book by a guy named George Bernanos, he says, in order to find hope in what does not deceive, we must lose hope in everything that deceives. So we have to completely disengage from all of this external ephemeral stuff so that we can realize that's all fake. And if that's fake, I have to find what's real. And I'm proposing what is real is what Jesus taught.
- [09:47]
Jenny Urich
I love that you wrote long before joy was positioned as a commodity by commercials and ads. So long before, you're like, there has been this broken compass of the human heart guiding us to much of the same. So what an interesting observation to see that this first sermon on the Mount was about this topic, about finding joy. And for parents that are listening now, we've got kids. You've got kids. Four boys. That's incredible. I mean, they are being marketed this message. And so this would be a great book to read as a family. Like when I was a kid, sometimes we did those devotional books. Sometimes they were like, they fall flat a little bit.
- [10:24]
Torrin Wells
Yeah, yeah.
- [10:25]
Jenny Urich
You know, because it's just like a one page thing. But read this, you read this as a family. And this is such a great conversation topic about where should joy and happiness, where should that be coming from? So the Beatitudes. I just, I loved the wording. It's like wording for 2025. And there were things in here that, you know, when you read the Bible and you're thinking you don't really understand something, so you just kind of gloss over it.
- [10:49]
Torrin Wells
Yeah, 100%.
- [10:50]
Jenny Urich
I was thrilled to learn. I've never in my life thought about the poor in spirit. Yeah, that's the very first one. That's where he starts. And torn. This is going to change my life. Because I didn't really think about it, like, in terms of. Who is he talking to? Well, he's talking about kind of like the outcasts. So can you explain that? Like, when he's talking about poor in spirit, there's these like the spiritual monsters, or not monsters like the spiritual, the kings and queens of the day, Right? There's them, but then there's these disciples. And they were not that.
- [11:25]
Torrin Wells
They were kind of monstrous. So you weren't misspeaking there because the religious elite, man, lot of problems there, a lot of religiosity and. Yeah, so think about it like this. So Jesus is out on a walk and he has already amassed quite a following. And he goes up on a hill, which is one of the things that I bring out, which I think is just so clutch of Jesus. He's like, I'm not going to take you to the beach side. I'm not going to take you to some beautiful Airbnb. I'm going to plop us all down here on the side of a hill, which it. I. I looked it up. It's the Sermon on the Mount, but it wasn't a mountain, it was a hill. And I thought even that kind of speaks to. To the human soul and the human condition, that, that we're often waiting for something spectacular to happen, for us to experience something significant. And it often doesn't happen like that. Real joy is found in ordinary, everyday places. And so he sits down and he's got his disciples with him and then a couple other people who are just kind of, you know, there to see what Jesus is really talking about. And he speaks to the disciples and the Pharisees who are both there now. There couldn't be two more different groups of people that existed at the time. This would be like Romeo and Juliet, like the Montagues and the Capulets. This was like the Bloods and the Crips. This was like, what state are you in?
- [13:10]
Jenny Urich
We're in Michigan.
- [13:12]
Torrin Wells
Let's go. I knew I heard a Michigan accent. I'm from Michigan. This was the Lions and the Packers. These were polar opposites. The Pharisees were already deemed spiritually elite, even as young boys. So all Jewish boys at this time would memorize the Torah, the first five books of the Bible. And then based on their ability to understand the scripture at the time, it wasn't like the Bible like we have it now. But their ability to understand that, memorize it, internalize it, verbalize it, determined whether or not they continued to study with the rabbi. Now, on the flip side, if you were considered to not be the best prospect to study with the rabbi, you would go back to your father's trade. So. So in the Pharisees, you literally have those who excelled in the law. And then with the disciples, you have those who did not excel in religious practices. That's why they're fishermen, tax collectors, doctors, these other things. When Jesus says, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven, you had two audiences hearing two completely different messages. Because to be poor in spirit meant to admit that you were spiritually bankrupt, that the door into the kingdom of God was so low, only the poor and the humble were small enough to fit through it. For the Pharisees there, this was the worst news ever, because their worth was in their religious practice. The money they gave, the prayers they prayed, the clothes they wore, the temple that they went to. This was the beginning of the problem with them. And Jesus is. He is saying, you have to be willing to detach yourself from all of those religious trappings to experience my kingdom. But the disciples heard the best news ever. These were the undrafted guys who got to walk on with a scholarship that they had no business. They're, like, poor in spirit, spiritually bankrupt. This is for me. And the good news for me is it makes the kingdom of heaven possible for me, too. Like, I get to experience the kingdom of heaven because this is based on what I lack, not on what I have as emotional.
- [15:57]
Jenny Urich
I feel emotional about that.
- [15:59]
Torrin Wells
If you grew up, people would say, in the wrong family, you grew up in a broken home. Your parents were addicts or alcoholics or addicted to busy and thriving, and you had all this pressure thrown on you. If you have accumulated tons of stuff by the world's standards, and you've got cars and houses and vacations and all that stuff, this word meets you wherever you're at today. And it is a willingness to say, what I have, what I lack is irrelevant. I need to look at my spirituality and say, God, without you, I have nothing. And that positions you to receive everything that he has for you.
- [16:42]
Jenny Urich
This is huge. I mean, I have glossed over this one my whole life. Pretty much, blessed are the poor in spirit. Because I never really considered, like you said, well, where was he and who was he talking to and who was there and what were their life circumstances? This is extremely powerful. Information to know. You wrote he chose 12 young men because you always hear about the disciples. So you, you kind of think from hearing about them as a kid, you know that they are these like larger than life, you know. But they weren't. No, they weren't. You explain. They were working in their father's trades. Peter, James, John, Matthew, Andrew gave insights that they had been rejected in a sense from the prospect of becoming holy men. They were often overlooked and marginalized by the society around them. They were struggling with their own doubts, which was opposite of the Pharisees and religious leaders who were accustomed as viewing themselves as a spiritual elite. Just a really powerful. I will take that with me forever. I never totally understood that. Torrin so I mean, incredible. So happy. Happy you were this way. Happy are the spiritually bankrupt.
- [17:43]
Ginny Urich
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- [21:30]
Jenny Urich
And let's just do a little bit more on the lack piece because I think in this day and age, especially because of social media and you can basically have an insight into so many people's lives, like your friends and people you don't know, that it definitely puts this emphasis on what we lack, whether that's material possessions, my kitchen doesn't look like theirs, or maybe what we lack in personality or prestige, fame, business, all of that type of thing. But you Talk about lack in a good way.
- [21:59]
Torrin Wells
Yes. Our deficits give us the opportunity to experience the grace of God. And it's hard even when in culture like you just spoke about so well. And even in church culture, there's a lot of ideas that float around where blessing is attached to some type of tangible thing, something that we fill our lives with. And what Jesus is saying is, it's the empty life that gets to be filled with the kingdom of God. Our heart's desire, a lot of times is to add things to our life, stuff to our lives. And we think the more stuff we accumulate, the better we'll feel on the inside. And Jesus is saying, the more you can find contentment not having. And it's not just stuff. God is not against people having stuff. I write about this in the book, too. Like, he told Abraham, I will make your name famous. You know, he told Solomon, no one will have wealth in comparison to you. He. He's not against that. He is against us thinking those things are what bring us our value, that those things are what unlock the kingdom of God. But the scripture says that there's actually no greater joy than knowing that our transgressions have been forgiven. Like knowing that Jesus saved me from my sin and my dysfunction and that a life of freedom is possible is the most valuable thing that I can wrap my heart around.
- [23:47]
Jenny Urich
And it wouldn't be there if not for lack.
- [23:50]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [23:50]
Jenny Urich
The sentence says, we often focus so much on what we lack that we forget to see the bigger picture. We forget that our deficiencies can be the very things that lead us to our true calling. This is one of my favorite lines. Inadequacies might lead you to a path you might not otherwise have considered.
- [24:09]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [24:09]
Jenny Urich
Oh, in this day and age. That's why I'm saying, read it with your kids. Read it with your kids who are surrounded by this joy marketing and who are surrounded by these feelings of lack and feeling like they're a bad thing. Yeah, but this is a really different way and a really godly and biblical way to look at it. Let's talk about a couple other of these Beatitudes? This is such important information, especially in this day and age. I'm so glad you wrote this book. You talk about how. Isn't it such a great title of a chapter, Happy Are the Desperately Sad? Yeah, that's great. Okay. I mean, this is one obviously that can feel confusing. Obviously. I mean, because the wording is just indirect opposite. But you talk in this one about. And I think this is important to talk about celebrated platinum selling recording artists, 1.2 billion global streams to date. And you wrote that you have dealt with considerable rejection in your life.
- [25:02]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [25:03]
Jenny Urich
So, you know, you got that thing from the outside that people are like, whoa. But no, you've had your own hardships.
- [25:10]
Torrin Wells
Yes. Okay, so first I have to back up because talking about the inadequacy, you dropped a bar right there. And I just can't let it go by with talking to our kids about our inadequacies and our deficits actually leading us more into our destinies than our strengths do. And I tell the story in the book, but I was asked by, I think it was fifth or sixth grade teacher, something like that, to write a paper about what I wanted to be when I grew up. And of course, you know, this was the 90s. I wanted to be Grant Hill. I wanted to be Michael Jordan. I want to be a professional basketball player. And so I wrote my dream down on my paper and I turned it in to my teacher, and I'm like, I'm going to the mba. This is my dream. And I was shocked because I got that paperback with red F on it. This is when we actually gave kids grades. My kids don't get grades now. They get, like, affirmation statements moving toward standard, you know, which I'm like, what does this even mean? I need a grape. I got a grade and F circled twice just for added emphasis, I guess. And I went to my teacher, I'm like, why'd I get a F on this paper? He's like, bro, this dream is unrealistic. You know how many people go to the NBA? You're not going to the NBA. And I was so mad, I went home, I complained to my parents. He said, I'm not going to the NBA. And of course, it made me have this, like, drive to go outside and dribble and shoot and all of that stuff. But at some point, I came to terms with the fact that my parents were not six foot tall. And so there was a great chance that I would not be 6 foot tall and that I would not have an NBA body and that I would not have NBA speed. And it was just me facing the reality of what I lacked that allowed me to explore. Well, I do like writing songs, and I do like performing, and I do like singing. And this is. Make a long story short, I didn't write this in the book because it hadn't happened yet, But I did include it in the audio version. I got to sing for the halftime show at the Detroit Pistons game just a few months ago, and my mom was there, and here I am standing on the NBA hardwood singing Take it all Back. And so I didn't get to an NBA court the way that I wanted to so badly when I was in sixth grade. But because I came to terms with what I did not have, I was able to appreciate and then pursue the gifts that I did have that led me to a life that I could not even dream of. I just would want to encourage a parent out there. I know we want to tell our kids, you can be anything you want to be when you grow up. I don't believe that that's true, but I do believe our kids can be everything God has created them, designed them, and wired them to be. Okay, fast forward. Switch pages real quick.
- [28:25]
Jenny Urich
Yeah, but wait, let's stay there. Let's stay there. I mean, I think this is one of the most important lessons of our time.
- [28:30]
Ginny Urich
Torrin.
- [28:30]
Jenny Urich
Yeah, because in an age where we're being marketed to for joy and happ and when we can see everybody else's lives, I think this is so hard for children. It's so hard. I remember it was hard for me as a kid being like, well, I don't have that brand of jeans, you know, that I see everybody else at school wearing. And this is that, like, times a million. I mean, it's so much more in their face, like, their lack. And so I, you know, I have this all. The whole section is bolded. What we lack is just as significant as what we possess. Acknowledging what we don't have gives us the awareness to sharpen our focus on what we do have. And what we lack creates space for God to fill our lives with his supernatural power and possibilities. I think when you said, like, I don't have the NBA body, there's a lot of parallel things. Like, I. I feel that way by my own self. I'm like, I don't look like that person. You know, I'm. We're on the same speakers agent with Jeff Roberts and me and you are so. I'm like, maybe someday we'll meet in person. But like, I. I feel like that even as an adult, I'm like, if I look like that person, you know, maybe it will be easier to get speaker speaking gigs or something like that. Like, we really do truly focus on what we lack. And I just felt like this part about. Because I never thought about this beatitude, really. Blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed, happy are those who are spiritually bankrupt. Like, be glad for the things that you don't. That you lack.
- [29:50]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [29:50]
Jenny Urich
Is probably one of the most powerful words of our time to me and for kids.
- [29:55]
Torrin Wells
Yes, absolutely. If you always are focused on what you don't have, you won't be able to recognize what you do.
- [30:05]
Jenny Urich
Yeah.
- [30:05]
Torrin Wells
There's a story in, in the scripture that is kind of hard for us to contextualize today because it's this boy named Jether and he has a sword, and his enemies have been pursuing his family, and they finally get to these two enemies, and his dad tells this boy, probably estimated around 12 years old, you are going to execute our enemies. Which is a wild thing. This is Old Testament. And so Jether stands there prepared. His dad was a warrior, so he knew what to do. There was no absence of knowledge. But he looked at his dad and basically said, I can't do this. I'm just a kid. So he was armed, but he wasn't dangerous because he allowed an excuse to sideline himself from what he had the, the power, the ability and the knowledge to do. He was looking at the deficit of his age and not the opportunity in the fact that he was trained by a warrior as a father. And I think a lot of our kids, we have to turn their eyes toward what they do possess, the qualities that they do have, their actual strengths, and not try to gas them up around stuff that God maybe has not equipped them for, even if it's different from us. I've got four boys. My nine year old son is the first of the boys to play soccer. We've done flag football, we've done baseball, we've done basketball. But he's like, I want to play soccer. I don't know anything about soccer. I had him, he's pretty good at sports, so I had him play up with the fourth through sixth graders. He's in third grade. He scored his first two goals last week. I'm so proud of Lawson. He's doing a great job. But if I was just making him play the sports that I liked and I was familiar with, he would never have this opportunity to discover what he has. Because they have a lot of us, but they also have a unique gifting, a unique skill set, and they need to be released uniquely to do what they want to do. So if they want to code, let them code. And if they want to color, let them color. And if they want to wear funky outfits, let them wear funky outfits because they need to discover what they actually possess so that they can win in the world.
- [32:35]
Jenny Urich
This book is called Joy Bomb, and I think that what people are hopefully getting from this conversation, because this is. We're literally still talking about the first chapter. This is going to be a foundation for you to have all of these incredibly important conversations with your kids, because I'm going to read a couple other things still. In chapter one, you wrote the good news for the disciples, and the good news for us is that God gives his kingdom not to the accomplished, to the polished or spiritually elite, but people who can readily admire who they are, not what they lack and where they come up short. In choosing these seemingly least capable men, Jesus demonstrated that it's not our abilities, but about our ability. Our. I just totally botched that. Jesus. Jesus demonstrated that it's not about our abilities, but our availability, our availability to do his will. Each disciple brought something unique. So this is what you're talking about. What do you have? Despite imperfections, these are all ordinary men chosen for an extraordinary mission. God sees potential in all of us.
- [33:41]
Torrin Wells
Yes, yes.
- [33:43]
Jenny Urich
It's a message for this day. It's so, so good. And like I said, we spent all that time on chapter one and probably could keep going. So you pick this book up, Joy Bomb, you're going to have a lot of things, especially it comes out at the end of May. So by the time this podcast goes live, the book will be available. This is your summer devotional with your family. Do the Beatitudes, do the beat, talk about them. Do one a week all through the summer. I mean, that will change your kid's life heading into that next school year.
- [34:09]
Torrin Wells
It really will.
- [34:10]
Jenny Urich
Can we talk about when we're sad? A lot of people are sad. Even people who are famous are sad and deal with rejection. You've been persecuted. You talk about your interracial marriage. People were shockingly disapproving of that. You grew up in. Your parents had a divorce. You had Christians who pushed you to the fringe in your denomination where you grew up. You were criticized personally. And anyone who's public face faces criticism.
- [34:36]
Torrin Wells
Yes, anyone faces criticism.
- [34:38]
Jenny Urich
Yeah, that's true.
- [34:39]
Torrin Wells
Maybe people public facing facing face more of it, but it balances out all the undue praise that we get. But everyone's got a hater and everyone is walking through a valley at some point. If you're not in a valley now, you probably just walked out of one. And if you're not in the just walking out of one, then you're probably about to walk into one. We're just always going through difficulties. And I think that's the beautiful thing that Jesus gives us in saying this. Happy are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. First of all, he gives us permission to mourn. He gives us permission to be sad. And guess what? You get to be sad when a season of life changes. You have permission to feel. You get to be sad when you're watching your kids go from middle school to high school or high school to college, when you think, I'm so excited they're going off to college. We did it. And we give each other a high five. And we realize them leaving our home feels like a death just happened. I think it's so powerful that Jesus gives us permission to feel. And if we would give ourselves permission to feel our feelings, we would give God permission to meet us there and heal us. And that's why I, I spent a lot of time on this, this particular code, this beatitude, Happy, Other desperately sad. Because I think culture, and even church culture has propagated this wrong thinking, this wrong mindset, that especially if you're a person of faith, you don't feel your feelings. We face it till we make it. What in the world does that mean? That's not in the Bible. We do that. I saw somebody wearing this T shirt the other day. Faith over feelings. Faith over feelings. What? What does that mean? That I'm elevating my faith over my feelings? I understand the intention, but I think it leads us to the wrong conclusion that we're supposed to bury our feelings beneath our faith. The problem with burying our feelings is we bury them alive. My wife and I were just talking about this the other day because we performed a wedding for a couple in our church. And we were driving home, long drive home from the wedding venue, and we were talking about how rejection and previous relationships that we had before each other actually impacted our marriage relationship years into our own marriage. And I think sometimes 14, 16, 19, 20, we go through a relationship and this is just one example where we're rejected. And we don't realize because we never know that we can process that pain, because we never do the work of processing that pain. That pain is subconsciously in the driver's seat for our decision making, for the conversations we have with our spouses, for the rules and parameters we send around our kids because we don't want them to feel what we felt. But we never healed from what we felt. So we're trying to keep them from being wounded from our own wounding. And it's because we don't. We haven't given ourselves permission to process that pain. But unprocessed pain is still pain that is influencing us. And so what Jesus is saying here is I have given you the process of mourning to deliver you from the grip of grief. So the road to healing is not just paved with laughter. More often it's paved with tears. And that Jesus actually catches our tears. The Bible says that he holds them in a jar heart that our tears and our prayers are ever before the Lord. So if our tears are precious enough for him to capture, they're powerful enough to set us free from our sadness. And I just hope people really, really take that message to heart.
- [39:17]
Jenny Urich
Yeah, happy are the desperately sad. Okay, true story.
- [39:23]
Ginny Urich
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Jenny Urich
Feel good, look good.
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Ginny Urich
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- [40:35]
Torrin Wells
The new McCrispy strip is here.
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- [40:42]
Torrin Wells
Sauce, Double dipped in Buffalo and Ranch.
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- [40:50]
Jenny Urich
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this but anyone can get the Same premium wireless for 15amonth Plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price point, plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com and what's interesting, you, you talked about this, that there's like layers to this, these Beatitudes. It's like you could be experiencing many of them at once. You know, maybe you're being persecuted and you're mourning and you're poor in spirit. So here's the joy bomb. Right. Because.
- [41:37]
Torrin Wells
Right.
- [41:38]
Jenny Urich
You got more than one. It's. That's a good thing. Really.
- [41:42]
Torrin Wells
Yes. Yes.
- [41:43]
Jenny Urich
You talk about the tears and I. I don't know if you know this woman, Annie F. Downs. Oh, yeah. And I had just interviewed her recently and she was talking about the verse and you do too, that say, those who sow with tears will reap with songs of joy. And you talked about how this was really powerful. Now this is in the insatiably hungry chapter. So there's a lot of weaving through.
- [42:06]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [42:07]
Jenny Urich
Of these different Beatitudes.
- [42:09]
Torrin Wells
They're all interconnected.
- [42:10]
Jenny Urich
Yes. Yes. That sometimes this is what Annie said she was saying. This is pretty recent conversation this way. It made me think about it. She had a prayer answered recently that like clicked with her that she said something like, this is a prayer from 10 years ago. You know, something answered, prayer happens. And she said she felt that God was saying to her, I never forget any of the prayers that you've made. Never forget.
- [42:34]
Torrin Wells
Never.
- [42:34]
Jenny Urich
You wrote this and talking about sowing with tears and sowing seeds, reaping with songs of joy. Some people, I thought this is like super accurate, even for myself. Some people do not feel inclined to pray because oftentimes prayer just looks like a seed, and a seed doesn't hardly look like anything.
- [42:56]
Torrin Wells
No, that's exactly right. Faith allows you to pray prayers not based on what they look like when you pray them, but what you believe that they will become because you prayed them.
- [43:09]
Ginny Urich
Yeah.
- [43:09]
Torrin Wells
And I know I've struggled with this in my own life. It's like man just sowing seed at early in the morning, sowing seed, driving in the car, sowing seed. Every night when I'm praying over my kids, just sowing seed. And it seems so insignificant at the time. And that's kind of like, if you back up from the book a little bit, that's kind of a general theme throughout is joy is really accessed through very small, seemingly insignificant moments, in seemingly insignificant places and through seemingly insignificant actions. But when we sow the seed of Our prayer into the soil of our faith, God allows a miracle to grow. And some miracles, they pop up quick, and we get to see them. Some are like that bamboo where you don't see anything for a long time, months and months, and then all of a sudden, it. It grows, it shoots up. I love what Annie said. It's so true. He never forgets a prayer. He never wakes a wound. Some of the prayers that we pray are not even audible. Some of the prayers we pray, it is literally seeds of tears, but they bring forth a harvest of joy. That that's why the enemy has tried to get us to even use church and church events and church services and Christian stuff to numb our pain rather than process it. And so we don't go to church to get healed. We go to church to get numb. We go to church for a painkiller, not a vitamin. And what Jesus is saying is, I don't want you to go into my presence to bypass your pain. I want you to come into my presence to process your pain, to cry your tears. People that feel like the only way I can stay connected to the person that I lost is by holding on to this pain, and if I let go of this pain, then I'll lose a piece of that person that I love so much. Jesus is saying that the fact that you feel pain validates the value of the person that you lost. That the only reason why you're sad is because that person meant something to you. And if they meant a lot to you, you need to cry a lot of tears. And it doesn't disconnect you from that person. It actually allows God to position that person beautifully in your heart to carry for the rest of your life until you see them again. So cry your tears. It is the mechanism of mourning, delivers us from the vice, from the grip of grief.
- [46:09]
Jenny Urich
They say that the average kid is outside for four to seven minutes a day, but on screens for four to seven hours. And so the whole premise here is about this massive unbalance. But, you know, we have an audience of different faiths and different backgrounds. But when you take your kids outside and you go outside as a parent, this is helping your kids with every facet of their development, right? It helps their cognition, and it helps their social skills and helps them emotionally, helps their physical bodies. But what we talk about, and not always, but sometimes, is that there are spiritual lessons on display in nature. And this concept of reaping and sowing is such a huge one. Like this is where it says that God will not be mocked like Whatever you sow, you'll also reap.
- [46:50]
Torrin Wells
Yes.
- [46:50]
Jenny Urich
You know, we sometimes talk about that and like, you know, don't be a jerk. You know, it's in that type of context. But when you. I just thought, gosh, this is so powerful, this part about sowing tears. You sow with tears and you will reap with songs of joy and that you're. You're sowing seeds when you pray. And you wrote this and I'm like, this is such a big sentence. And to me, I feel like every Christian parent there should be planting something, anything. It could be in your house, it can be out of your house.
- [47:19]
Torrin Wells
Every person is planting something. Yes, but actually you may mean tangibly, physically.
- [47:25]
Jenny Urich
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Because, you know, obviously God cares so much about children and he gave these spiritual principles as like this explosion you're talking about, like a joy bomb. So I. Here's what I'm thinking about. Come on, we plant some seeds. You know, you get the sunflower ones, they're kind of cool looking, you know, some of them you can hardly see. You go to put them in the ground, they all pour out because they're so small. But some of them are kind of cool ish looking. But you put in a mammoth sunflower seed with your child and you say what you say in this book. That's why I'm saying, do this this summer. There is nothing too thrilling or filling about a seed. And that's the truth. You got this little seed.
- [48:01]
Torrin Wells
Yeah. Seems like nothing.
- [48:03]
Jenny Urich
Seems like nothing. It's the color, it's nothing. And that little thing might grow to be 12ft tall and over you and all the finches are going to come and eat the seeds and there's going to be a thousand seeds. So that concept, I just think that's such a huge statement. There's nothing too thrilling about a seed. And so to have that object lesson with your child to say, look at the seed, just do something. Plant a pumpkin thing, you know, you can plant it right in a pot on your porch. Then you're going to take one pumpkin seed.
- [48:34]
Torrin Wells
Yeah.
- [48:34]
Jenny Urich
There's nothing too thrilling about that.
- [48:36]
Torrin Wells
No, it's flat.
- [48:38]
Jenny Urich
It's a weird shape that's going to give you a whole vine with pumpkins on it.
- [48:42]
Torrin Wells
Yeah.
- [48:43]
Jenny Urich
Isn't it amazing how God did that? That like those object lessons?
- [48:46]
Torrin Wells
Yeah, it's beautiful. You're pointing to something that's really cool too. There's a pastor I came across, author and pastor, his name is David Murray and he gave Us seven categories for happiness. And I don't know if I can quote them all, but I'll try vocational happiness, intellectual happiness, social happiness, creation happiness, or nature happiness, humor happiness, and spiritual happiness. So I write about this in the book Seven Categories of Happiness. Well, what is so cool about this is God is so good that even those that are not in relationship with him get to experience six of these seven categories. You get to experience joy through your work work joy through relationships, joy through things that are funny. You get to experience joy through creation, hiking, being outside, planting a pumpkin seed with. With your kids. That's amazing. The thing is, though, a lot of us try to use all six of those things to fill the void of the one thing that is greater than all six combined. Because spiritual happiness is a greater, deeper happiness than all other six categories. But here's the cool thing. When you have spiritual happiness, when you know that your heart is right with the Lord, when you're in relationship with him, and every day you're aware that he's pouring his love into your heart and into the hearts of the people that you love, it amplifies the joy that you receive from everything else in your life. So specifically with the seed, with creation happiness, God created the stars and the moon and the sun and the trees and the birds and animals to facilitate an atmosphere of joy in our lives. But if you're living absent of God and you find pleasure in the outdoors, in planting a seed and harvesting a garden, imagine how much more joy you find with what you're describing when you realize this isn't just a seed. This is something God designed. This is something God did. This is a moment I get to share with my kids. And it actually, the. The awareness of God amplifies our awareness of him, all other six categories to where the joy compounds in our lives. And we're like, oh, my gosh, what a life. Even something as simple as walking on the front porch and putting a seed in dirt. And you're like, I can't believe this is my life. Yeah, this is amazing.
- [51:43]
Jenny Urich
Yes. And I think as parents, we all have times when our kids cry and they are hurt or that, you know, their feelings have been hurt. They got cut from the thing. I just talked to a woman the other day who said her kid tried out to be Simba in the play and he got hyena number three. And, like, that's a disappointment. Like, life is full of those things. And so when you sow with tears, and so you would. That's what I'm saying. About like plant something. Because then what you can say to your kid is, hey, remember when we put that watermelon seed in the ground and it just felt like nothing and it made a whole vine with, with five more watermelons on it. This is what God is talking about. Those who sow with tears will reap with Songs of Joy is a wonderful, wonderful book to read with your family. There's nothing too thrilling about a seed. But through the eyes of faith, we don't just see our prayers for what they are when we're praying them. We see the potential. Yeah, we see the potential. What is the potential of a seed? What a God that took those spiritual principles and put them in a, in a hands on lesson that we can do with our children. We can recall. Remember that seed you planted. This is, I mean, we've hardly talked about any of the books. It's such a good book. Doran. I love the part about peacemakers because I think that this is a big misconception too. Maybe we'll kind of wrap it up here. So it's the blessed are the peacemakers. And I think you talk about the difference between peacekeepers and peacemakers. And I sort of grew up with this thought of like, I don't really feel at peace about that. It must not be God's will. And you say, is peace really a good gauge of God's will?
- [53:11]
Torrin Wells
Yeah, that, that is a. You draw out the best quotes. Seriously, you are amazing. Yes. Happy are the relentlessly peaceful. I think that what I was trying to wrestle down in my own heart, honestly, throughout this whole process was. Can you read me the quote one more time?
- [53:37]
Jenny Urich
Yeah. So you're saying, is peace a good gauge of God's will? So you wrote, it's a common misconception. And I related to this tor. It's a common misconception that following God's will should always lead to a peaceful and smooth path.
- [53:49]
Torrin Wells
Yeah.
- [53:49]
Jenny Urich
But I feel like in the times when I'm wrestled with what I'm supposed to do, which is even this or, you know, things that make you nervous. You're like, like I'm a doctor, Torn Wells, like, you know, the pastor and the musician with the 1.2 billion streams, I mean, I don't feel an underlying peace. I feel an underlying, like I'm a little nervous. Right?
- [54:07]
Torrin Wells
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same, same, same for me. Absolutely. And I think a lot of times, you know, you, you hear people when they're making a major life choice, they love to use a line. I just feel great peace about it. And I'm always like, I'm not sure that that's the. That's the metric, you know? When you look at what Jesus did, man, he had no peace in the garden. My man was submitting his will to the will of God to the point that his body was going through an anamorphic, scientific, unbelievable stress. He was so stressed in this moment, and I don't mean anxious or fearful. I mean, he felt the weight of the will of God. So much so it was physically crushing him to the point blood was coming out of his pores. I don't think he was in the garden saying, I just feel peace about this. He was saying, God, if it's possible, we need a new plan.
- [55:13]
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New plan.
- [55:14]
Torrin Wells
We need a new plan. This is not the plan. New cup. Can this cup be passed? Because I don't like this cup. He wasn't just saying, man, I feel great peace about this. When you look at Paul, he's like, I've been shipwrecked, imprisoned, bitten by snakes, stoned, traveled thousands of miles, all in the will of God. That does not sound peaceful. I think sometimes peace is a cop out. It's like, if I don't feel peace about it, I'm not called to it. The fact that there's turbulence may be the indicator that you're moving the right direction. What you have to do is fight to make peace with the difficulty. Make peace with the conflict. Not just find peace in it, but make peace with it. Make peace with the difficulty. Like, I resigned to the fact that this is going to be hard. I resigned to the fact that this is going to include suffering. I'm making peace with the reality of what this calling ways. And I think that liberates us to do it without constantly trying to find ways to comfort ourselves, which are often outside of what God wants for us.
- [56:33]
Jenny Urich
Torn, it's so good. It's the same thing. If you got kids. These are the things that you need to be teaching them. Tension, pressure and pain can serve as reminders that we are engaged in something significant and meaningful. And you talked about Jesus. You were like, he was a peacemaker rather than a peacekeeper. He addressed injustice. He told the Pharisees, blessed are you if you're poor in spirit. I mean, that's not like keeping the peace in that sense. He ruffled feathers. You wrote, he spoke truth to power. He sided with the unlikely and the marginalized. His teachings were revolutionary in counterculture. He did not shy away from making statements that upset the established order. What an incredible thing. To teach our children as they're going out into this world. This book is so good. It is called Joy Bomb. It will be out by the time this episode goes live. By Torn Wells. Unleash Jesus's explosive joy for an extraordinary life. I got so much out of it and so much that we're taking to teach our kids. This has been such an honor. I want to wrap up with a couple music questions real quick, just because, you know. Okay. So the song that we listen to most of yours is fully known.
- [57:37]
Torrin Wells
Yeah.
- [57:37]
Jenny Urich
Which I really like, because to me, it related to this book. It's a reorientation. You know, you're saying this is a reorientation toward these codes, toward these Beatitudes, and you talk about hard truth and ridiculous grace. So I just. I don't know that related to me. What is your currently. What's your favorite song to perform?
- [57:54]
Torrin Wells
Oh, my goodness. Probably take it all back right now. Take it all back. It's meant a lot to a lot of people, and so it's pretty lit. Like, it goes up every time we perform that song, so it's a lot of fun.
- [58:08]
Jenny Urich
What is a song that you get the most feedback about? Is it that one right now?
- [58:14]
Torrin Wells
Let's take it all back. Just because it's the most recent, but historically, like, known hills and valleys, God's not done with you. It seems that God has blessed us in allowing that to be a part of a lot of people's stories.
- [58:28]
Ginny Urich
Yeah.
- [58:29]
Jenny Urich
What is a song? Is. Is there a song that you wish more people knew about?
- [58:33]
Torrin Wells
Ooh, that is a great question. No one has ever asked me that question before. My God, you're good. Let me see here. Probably a song called Breath Away on an EP that I released. It features Fred Hammond, which is one of my gospel heroes growing up. A Detroit, Michigan, guy himself. Yeah. So that song is just so groovy. I love the lyric. Like, one of the lyrics is, I'm so full of hallelujahs, they keep falling out my heart. I just love it. I just think it's a joy bomb.
- [59:13]
Jenny Urich
That's so good. All right, we're gonna. We're gonna make sure we add that one to our playlist. We always end our show with the exact same question. What's a. And it can be real quick. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [59:23]
Torrin Wells
Oh. Oh. You know, speaking of the planting thing, I came home one day from. It was either kindergarten or first grade, and we were given, like, a little plant in a pot to. To plant in our backyard and I remember my dad taking the time to go out there with me to plant that little plant and we had like some growth solution. It was like water mixed with something blue. I don't remember, maybe put food coloring in it to make it more interesting. But we planted that little tree in our backyard and I got to watch that thing grow and I've even driven past that house and been able to see that. So definitely a a core memory there.
- [60:04]
Jenny Urich
It's incredible. Torin, thank you so much for being here.
- [60:07]
Torrin Wells
You are the bomb. For real. Thank you for having me. This was amazing.
- [60:14]
Lowes Advertiser
Are you hungry for guidance about mindset, relationships, health, finances, career decisions, and dealing with your past, I'm Trey Tucker, licensed therapist and speaker and host of Rugged, a podcast where I help young men and women navigate life's challenges and find solutions to help them live lives of service and meaning. In this podcast, you'll learn mindset strategies to harness your thoughts and emotions in ways that help you achieve your goals. I bring a blend of straight talk and empathy, and I'm open to addressing any topic and treating it and the people connected to it with respect and curiosity. Come join us. We have a space for you. Search for Rugged with Trey Tucker wherever you listen to podcasts and make sure to hit the follow button. So new weekly episodes will be delivered straight to your personal podcast feed. My hope is that this podcast will leave you feeling encouraged and empowered to take charge of your life and close the gap between who you are and who you want to be.