1KHO 487: It’s Better to Leave Things Undone Than to Come Undone | Courtney Smallbone, Technicolor Woman

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 487: It’s Better to Leave Things Undone Than to Come Undone | Courtney Smallbone, Technicolor Woman
Release Date: May 23, 2025
Host: Jenny Urich, Founder of 1000 Hours Outside
Guest: Courtney Smallbone, Author of Technicolor Woman

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Introduction

Jenny Urich welcomes Courtney Smallbone, the author of Technicolor Woman, to the first episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast. Both Jenny and Courtney share a deep appreciation for each other's work, establishing a warm and engaging atmosphere for the conversation.

Notable Quote:
Jenny Urich [00:31]: "I read her book and I absolutely love it. It's called Technicolor Woman. What a cool title."

Personal Stories and Background

Courtney Smallbone delves into her upbringing as a third-generation Methodist pastor’s child, highlighting the strong foundation in faith and community service that shaped her values. She narrates her journey from Indiana to Florida and ultimately settling on a cattle farm in Tennessee, where she embraces homesteading and homeschooling alongside her husband, Luke, of the Grammy-winning duo for King & Country.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [05:29]: "We’re just out of the system and into the kingdom people, whatever that looks like."

Generational Legacy and Influences

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the concept of generational legacy. Courtney emphasizes the importance of daily actions impacting not just the present but extending 20 generations into the future. She references the Edwards family as a positive example of lasting, impactful legacy versus another family's struggle with addiction and incarceration.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [10:01]: "I'm living for 20 generations down the line that they'll say, 'Oh, that one girl, that great, great, great, great, great grandma Courtney. Well, it stopped with her and this started with her.'"

Themes from Technicolor Woman

Courtney discusses key themes from her book, including the Hebrew understanding of the word "woman" (Isha) and its deeper meanings beyond English interpretations. She explores how attributes like "helper" in Hebrew convey strength and support, contrasting with the often misunderstood English connotations.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [24:39]: "In the Hebrew, it's an attribute of God. It is God, my help. Like when Israel was under siege. It's a military term, like, 'God, my help, I need your help.'"

Women, Insecurity, and Community

The conversation shifts to addressing insecurity among high achievers and the role of women in fostering unity over competition. Courtney advocates for women acting as "midwives," supporting and nurturing each other's growth rather than succumbing to jealousy and rivalry.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [30:02]: "It's like the blueprint for women is to unify, because obviously the enemy loves to disunify."

Living a Restful Life

Jenny and Courtney explore the necessity of rest, especially for parents juggling multiple responsibilities like homeschooling and farming. Courtney introduces the idea of "rest as a weapon," emphasizing that rest enables individuals to recharge and prevent burnout, aligning with both physical and spiritual well-being.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [46:58]: "Rest is the weapon. So, you know, burnout. So, like, yes, run hard, run your race, but also don't burn out."

Discernment in Daily Life

In the final segments, Courtney discusses the importance of discernment in making daily decisions, especially in a life filled with numerous opportunities and responsibilities. She advises prioritizing actions that align with one's core values and long-term goals, ensuring that time and energy are invested wisely.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [52:29]: "Think about it. Like you can lose your soul doing good Christian work, okay. But how do we stay on target? How do we stay connected to the vine and bear good fruit and, and be immovable off of that?"

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt reflections on childhood memories spent outdoors, reinforcing the podcast's overarching theme of valuing time outside and its impact on personal development. Courtney shares a nostalgic memory of running through cornfields in Indiana, symbolizing freedom and exploration.

Notable Quote:
Courtney Smallbone [56:20]: "I just loved the feeling of being lost in the cornfields."

Final Thoughts

Jenny Urich commends Courtney for her impactful work and encourages listeners to explore Technicolor Woman as a transformative journey into women's identity and living life vibrantly. The episode underscores the significance of making intentional choices that honor one's legacy, foster community, and embrace the natural rhythms of rest and growth.

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Available Now:
Technicolor Woman by Courtney Smallbone is available for purchase. Visit technicolorwoman.com to learn more and grab your copy.

Website: 1000hoursout.com
Podcast Host: Jenny Urich
Guest: Courtney Smallbone, Author of Technicolor Woman

Transcript

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[Jenny Urich]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I am so excited for this day's guest. I read her book and I absolutely love it. It's called Technicolor Woman. What a cool title of a book that the author, Courtney Smallbone is here. Welcome, Courtney.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Oh, my goodness, I'm so happy to be here. I'm obsessed with your podcast, so I'm just happy to be with you. I listened to one yesterday with one of my kids. It was the guy who was talking about living all in and, like, spending your life and being adventurous, and I just love what you do. You're a wild brumby is like what I like to call it. So it's an honor to be with you.

[Jenny Urich]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. And I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge fan of you. I'm a huge fan of this book. I'm a fan of For King and Country. We have loved that band for a very, very long time. It's like a super interactive. We've only seen one live show and it was like. It's like one of those ones. There's like so much sensory cool things that are going on. And the drums, I mean, it's just. That's cool. Like, why not make it super fun like that. And so I got so much out of this book, in fact. So, you know, I read these books for podcasts, Courtney, and very rarely do I talk to my husband about them because, you know, I read a lot of them and we're busy, like how any parent is. But with yours, there was like, several things that I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so interesting. So we've had all these conversations. It's just helped us to, you know, connect in different ways. So I really appreciate that.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Oh, I love that.

[Jenny Urich]

So we're going to be talking about some of those today. We have some similarities. You're on a farm. We live on a farm. You've had kids with a midwife. We've had kids with a midwife. A lot of cool, really cool things. But I want to start off with this. I don't think I've ever read this before. Courtney, your husband wrote your foreword to Technicolor Woman. And I have never seen that in all the books I've come across. Can you just talk about like the background there and how that happened? It's so beautiful.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yes. I love that. You know, I had a lot of great women endorse it. Kind of from all different streams, because that's kind of me. But when it came to the forward, I couldn't think of anyone better than my husband because he lives with me. He's my biggest encouragement. He's my best friend, he's my adventure buddy. And I just couldn't think of anyone else. Like, obviously we've been married almost 15 years and we've journeyed together, but it's like I so value his leadership, his wisdom, his gold heart. I just wanted it to be true. Like, whoever endorses this book, I want them to know, to know me. So it's like he knows me the best. So when I asked him, he actually cried. He was like, really? I was like, yeah. And it was funny because he said, I'm gonna write it and I wanna surprise you. Cause he would say, oh, I'm not a writer. And I'm like, blah, blah, blah. You know, he's a writer. And so he wrote it and he kind of like. He had my mom edit it. Cause my mom's an editor and they showed it to me and then I cried. So we just cried a lot, you know.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, it's really beautiful. And I've never, I've never come across that. He wrote, she is my dearest friend. We've traveled the world together, we've suffered together, we've laughed a lot together, we've grieved together, we're raising four kids together. And he said the two people that have influenced him the most spiritually, the most are C.S. lewis and you. Which is the same initials, C.S. yes. Courtney's Malbourne. C.S. is Clive Staples. I mean, that is really. I don't know, it was moving. It was moving to have the book start off that way. He wrote, when it comes to someone who should be pouring into this generation of women and future generations of women, I think of my wife.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Oh, that makes me want to cry now.

[Jenny Urich]

I know. It's beautiful. Okay, a little bit of your story. So like Indiana to Florida. Now you're in Tennessee on a cattle farm. This is cool.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah, yeah. So I grew up a three generation pastor's kid, so from a line of Methodist pastors. So grew up in a parsonage, grew up serving the church, you know, food pantries. And, and I loved it so it really gave me a heart for the body of Christ. Loving Jesus from a young age and loving people from a young age. And then we moved to Florida. Loved Florida. It was super formative in my life. You know, you go through the cringy teenage years of like, what's real, what's true. And I did that. So it's funny, I thought about it this morning. I did my wrestle at really 18. I was like, if you're real, make it real and I'm all in. But if you're not real, like, I'm out. And I think that's a really great place to wrestle with God and know who he is and know who you are. So I've always been a pretty like all in person. And so that's when that kind of was formed in my life. Moved to Tennessee. Love Tennessee. We live on a farm, we homestead, homeschool, you know, all the things and tour and, you know, that's the writing of the albums, making of the movies, you know, he does it in song, I do it in speech and writing along with our kids. And so yeah, we're. We're just like out of the system and into the kingdom people, whatever that looks like. So, yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Is it hard? I had this question because you do music as well.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

You have all of these talents. Like the book itself, it showcases talent. It's very artsy, you know, all the different colors and the. It's called the Technicolor Woman. But the way that it's laid out and just all these different thoughts you have. So is it hard to be married to someone who is really well known for music? So Luke is half of the Grammy winning duo for King and Country for four. How do you say four for King and Country? But you do music as well and you've had some dormant seasons and it's come back and you've written songs. What's it like to have both of you in this creative space?

[Courtney Smallbone]

I think it's wonderful. You know, I think God is the most creative and he is in all expressions. And so whether that's writing, singing, singing, painting, like visuals, like, I think everything is art. Like I literally made sourdough focaccia yesterday, cut the herbs and like I'm creating a flower. Right. So this comes from God. And so I think with Luke, I've always felt, I don't know, known, like we speak a similar language. Like even from the beginning, it's like he's writing songs. I come up with lyric ideas with him. Like, we are each other's like, check and balance of, like, do you think about this? You know, whether it's him writing a song or me, you know, crafting something, I'm. I'm speaking about, it's like. I don't know. I just. I think it's fun. I think it's. It's cool that we both have that expression, you know, we've sung with each other throughout the years. I don't know. God just kind of put us together and. I don't know. I think there's more dormant things awakening. I think as you get close with the Lord and he heals you, he, like, restores adventure and restores creativity. You know, he gave us an imagination. So it's like, to see that in full bloom with each other, I don't know, it's like, really bonding. I've loved. I've loved walking alongside of him and encouraging him, and vice versa. Like, it's an honor of a lifetime to do that. And we've been some crazy places and we've done some crazy things, but it's like, he's my person, so it's like, go, babe. Like, go do it, you know?

[Jenny Urich]

And you wrote a song called Super Bloom.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Talking about the. I thought that would be great for a mom to read about. This is in Technicolor, woman, where you're talking about, really about dormant things awakening.

[Courtney Smallbone]

That's it.

[Jenny Urich]

And that sometimes it happens after there's a lot of rainwater. Maybe that's your tears, you know, I mean, just a hard season. And you wrote that song with a friend called Super Bloom. So I just love seeing that. That there's the art from both sides in all of these different ways. And you talked about it's really interesting to be the third generation of pastors, kids. That's a pretty big deal because a lot of times that can go awry. But you talk a lot in this book about generations. So what a testament to your family. That's incredible. And you talked about this thing. I'd never heard of Courtney. This is one of the things I talked about with my husband about the five generation rule. Oh, my goodness. I never heard of this. It changed my whole life.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah, it's really powerful. I started researching it. Really. When you can track down through history one person, right? One person and their decisions, their disciplines and the effect. It's, like, insane.

[Jenny Urich]

Yes. Okay, so you focused on two particular families. One of them is the Edwards family, Sarah and Jonathan. And you really talk about, like, only 150 years later now. That's a Long time, but it's not really that long. 150 years later and how many descendants they have, which is so many. Now they did start off with 11 kids, so they started off strong. But they have all of these descendants and it's 13 college presidents and 65 college professors and military officers and 100 pastors and judges and doctors and lawyers and senators and a vice president. 150 years later you can kind of think like, you know, that's like maybe 50, 60 years after I'm gone, all of these descendants. But then they looked at another person and it was, you know, 440 of his descendants were addicted to alcohol and a bunch of them were in the New York prison system. And so you talk about starting well but not finishing well.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Can you talk about, you know, especially in a really busy seasons of life and the pressures of having a lot of kids and raising them and cattle and touring.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

What are some things that we can do to really work on finishing well?

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah, it's actually one of my favorite topics is the generations. Because what we do every day, it has a ripple effect. And so I'm not just living for myself. I'm living for 20 generations down the line that they'll say, oh, that one girl, that great, great, great, great, great grandma Courtney. Well, it stopped with her and this started with her. Like I think that way and I think we can get really busy, really distracted and we need to start thinking larger and wider and than just ourselves. You know, it's like we can make that type of impact if we decide to, if we engage with it. I feel like the generations piece is just so deep with both Luke and I, but even with the busy seasons, like the pressurization, right. Like we all have full lives. You're raising children, what God puts in your hands. Right. You're trying to steward your life well. And I think something that has changed my perspective, I wrote about two of them. One is called Pearls of Pressure. And it's having a different concept when looking at pressure. So pressure actually is not bad. You know, we want comfort. We're actually, you know, our flesh is so finicky. So we're like, oh, it's uncomfortable, it's hard, so it must be bad. Right. And that's actually just not true biblically or in life. Right. Like, so if something's hard, oh, that means I won't work out. That means don't have children. That means don't get married. Like don't anything beautiful in life, then don't do it because it's just too hard. And so something that has shifted in my life is like the concept of the pearl. It is created in the pressure. And so instead of looking at it like, oh, it's like, instead what, God, what are you forming in me? And it can look different. So you're having a struggle with a child, Lord, what are you forming in them and me? Because there something about parenting is very mirrored, right? It touches on your childhood, it touches on your beliefs and your sensitivities. So instead of resisting it, it's like, ask the question, be curious. Like, what are you forming right now? Even hard seasons of sickness or any of that. It's like, but you can develop things in those seasons that are treasures. I would say even in our life, like a lot of people, like, you have four kids, you're homeschooling, there's touring, there's writing, all this stuff. And I just look at it through the lens of I have one life on earth and I want to do it well. And excellent. I want to start well, I want to finish well. We want to pass a legacy. And it's for the kingdom, you know, like my soul, I know where my soul's going, but it's like when we're in the grace, when we're in the seasons of I will embrace, I will embrace suffering, I will embrace pressure, I will embrace trials. Because they produce. That's even in the Bible, one of my favorite verses. They will produce, right? Endurance, but ultimately hope. And so I think, you know, we live in a culture, the American culture. I don't, I don't want to be uncomfortable, I don't want to be inconvenienced, but I think we've just chosen the path of inconvenience. And I would never trade the treasures. You know, like once you have a pearl, you're like, you can have that. Like, you can have that. I'll have the pearl. Like, it sits different, it feels different.

[Jenny Urich]

And then you're creating this generational legacy. This book is so beautiful. And you, before we popped on, you were telling me that your son is reading it, your 10 year old son. This is like a, you know, you could leave it out on the coffee table. It's that pretty of a book, you know, that you just pick up, your kids could leave through it. And there's 31 lessons in here. A transformative 30 day journey into the identity of women and living life in full color. Great for moms, great for 10 year old sons. Anyone can read it, everybody. You're gonna learn a lot and it's actually available already so you could go grab a copy right now.

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[Jenny Urich]

So talking about then, you know, this pressure and doing hard things and having this generational legacy, I loved all the quotes that you had woven throughout this book. One of them that really stuck out to me was home is the bottom line of life, the anvil upon which attitudes and convictions are hammered out, the single most influential force in our early existence. No price tag, no price tag can adequately reflect its value, the value of home.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

Charles Swindoll. So you just have these beautiful quotes, beautiful reminders, and then from your, I guess, great grandfather. So talking about generations raising children, I've actually never heard anybody say this. It's interesting, like when you have something that's part of your sort of family vernacular, your family history. I've never heard anybody say this. So, Courtney, raising children starts 40 years before they are born. What does he mean by that?

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah, you know, what's so wild is while I was writing this book, you know, my side of the family were very deep historians, like, with our family. So I love it. So I asked my dad a lot of questions about everybody right in the family, like, what was she like? You know, and so he came out of the woodwork with this one. I hadn't heard it until I was writing the book. And it really impacted me because pretty much it's saying it's not right now, right? It, it's the preparation, it's the generations ahead. It's like, what kind of foundation are we laying and what are we building and what are we a part of? It kind of took my brain for a whirl, you know, where it's like, that is such a great concept. It's like it begins so much further because we know, like, children don't do what we say. They become who we are. And so it's like it kind of did this wonderful dance in my heart. Of, like, what am I imparting to them? And even again, eyesight, like, even further ahead. What you're doing to form your child now, they are going to parent. They're going to be a grandparent. You know, like, what are they. What baton are we passing? You know, like, what are we taking? Because we need to receive it. We need to, like, trash the trash and bring the treasures. But then what are we, like, passing on? And it lives on. And it really. I don't know, it gave me chills. It still gives me chills. When my dad told me that, he said that, I was like, this makes sense. This makes sense because I'm seeing his imprint. Think about it. He's long gone. I'm seeing his imprint carry on. I got to grab it. And now my son can read it, right? And I tell them again, telling the stories. This is what the Israelites lights did, right? This is all of Old Testament. It's like this parabolic. Like, this is who you are. This is where you come from. This is who you are. This is where you come from. And it passes on. And we. We need to remember to do that. It's really powerful.

[Jenny Urich]

Wow. To have an eye for the future because, you know, it's interesting. You, you know, you kind of think, well, someday my kid's going to be a parent. But you don't really ever think, well, someday my kid's going to be a grandparent. And so many people talk about how formative their grandparents are. So it's like, well, so at some point someone's going to say, well, Grandpa Phoenix says, whatever, like, we've got a Vivian. Grandma Vivian. I mean, you just don't know. And that he said, raising children starts 40 years before they are born. That's your great grandfather, Elvin Eldon Helm. That's a cool name. And then your great uncle Warren chimes in and says, maybe it starts further back even than that. So you say, what we foster in our home is monumental to how it shapes our children and therefore impacts the world. You just don't know this privilege of the generations that starts before us and goes long after us. And you had this statistic that I'd never heard and never even considered it. Courtney, this is so interesting. Only 30% of the leaders in the Bible finished.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Well, yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

I don't think anybody really talks about that. They talk about, like, the triumphs and, you know, but then you're like, well, wait a minute, so 70%?

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

So give us an example yeah.

[Courtney Smallbone]

So I went deep diving into. I think it's from the chapter run because it's, it's talking about running your race, running it well, finishing well. And then I started diving into numbers, statistics of obviously like church leaders, stuff like that. Like, what are the things that trip them up? They're the same things, okay. They're ancient. Like, they're the same things in the Bible. Okay. It's like David fell, right? It was his flesh. It's so crazy to read the Bible from the place of. These are real people. We think they're like superheroes and they have like a supernatural ability to obey God. No, they're people like us. And they had choices and they had paths. And I think it really encouraged me to be watchful of. Okay, that tripped up those people. These are the things that trip people up, which is typically the works of the flesh. You know, it's a lot of it is power, fame, wealth. It's like the flesh, the flesh, flesh, flesh. Like sexual sin and money. And it just comes out in different forms through different people in the Bible. And so I guess I love to learn what not to do as well as what to do because it's like, I'm flesh, I'm doing my best, right. Like, but I also, I don't want to trip and not finish well. It's actually one of my, probably one of my biggest fears. It's like, no, I want, like, I want to run hard, I want to run fast and I want to get to heaven and be like, I gave it all, like, I did it right. I didn't. I, you know, to the best of our ability. But studying this really encouraged me, you know. Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

It's so good. I ha. It is in the chapter run, which is impressive because there's 31 chapters. So that was really impressive. I have this page circled in my book and it says the results are shocking. Only 30% of the leaders in the Bible finished well. That means that 70% fell short of God's plan for their lives. This fact should jolt and wake up any present day leaders and people who desire to run their race of faith. Well, some more disqualified biblical leaders like Samson, Absalom and ahem. Some were walking their faith with a limp is great wording like Gideon, Eli and Solomon. They finished in poor shape and spiritually decline in the latter phase of their lives. Anyway, at the end of my life, I want to take my last breath knowing I gave it all, I didn't forfeit and I wasn't disqualified. And you do go through like, what are the things that really trips people up? Misuse and abuse of finances. Greed and carelessness. Power and its abuse. Leaders who lead for their own personal benefit and recognition. Actually, this is a great thing for a kid to read. You know, it's good for us. But the fact that your son is reading it is. Is wonderful. So it's called Technicolor Woman. And it's. I mean, the COVID is really cool. It's really neat. Like, you did all these special touches that I don't think you see in many books, all of the art and things like that. But talking about woman, I didn't know this. You start off the book going through the Hebrew word of woman, and it's comprised of these different parts and what that kind of means for us and what our role should be. Can you. I. That was so cool that even knew that. Can you talk us through the. The Hebrew word? Do you say Isha? Isha.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah. So. So Technicolor Woman, the whole, like, women's identity and transformation. That's why Technicolor, like black and white to Technicolor, that's the transformation. But a lot of it is the root systems of identity for the woman. And the transformation, like the gospel's real and it really transforms your life and how is that lived out and even spiritual practices and all of that. But when I was reading about women's identity, I have a Hebrew lexicon. So I love reading the Old Testament in Hebrew, right. And the New Testament in the Greek. So we miss things, you know, The Hebrew language is so different than our American language. So what I was finding was whether it was woman or Eve or helper or even rib is in the original Hebrew, it means something totally different. So think about it like now as I. I see speak when I say in the Bible, he will make a helper suitable. You should see the reactions. It's like a visceral reaction from the women, like, ugh. But I'm like. In the English, helper means, like, lesser, right? Like a maid or like, you're just a helper, all this stuff. But in the Hebrew, it's an attribute of God. It is God, my help. Like when Israel was under siege. It's a military term, like, God, my help, I need your help. And it. So it's through the creation of woman. It's when Israel's crying out to God, God, it gives me chills. Because when we discover and see the real thing, it. Something. I feel like something was lost in translation that I felt needed to Be restored in, like, this is who you are. Even the rib, it's Tsella, not Tesla, guys. But it is. It is like the side temple, like the chamber of the temple, like the holiest of holies. I was finding these things and they were treasures. I'm like, I have to share them, you know, because I. I think I believed other things. I just didn't look right. But when I started researching all of it, even just down to, you know, Adam and Eve and the original Hebrew words are actually one. So God's intent. I know they're not one without the other. And it created this different narrative in understanding God's heart when creating man and woman in his image, both reflecting different parts that make one thing. Honestly, it's my favorite thing to talk about. I feel like I'm blabbering on. But it's so fun to me because when I see women go, wow, I carry this attribute of God, like, I am this reflection of him. It's just beautiful. It's like a restoring of the beauty that God spoke. But no, I'm not like a Hebrew expert. I just was curious. So anyone get a Hebrew lexicon? Dive on in. It's super fun.

[Jenny Urich]

Well, it's really powerful. It's really, really powerful. Like the helper. I had written that down.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Wow.

[Jenny Urich]

About the helper. Because, you know, you do feel like. Yeah. Oh, because a 12 year old can be your helper. But like, you get it.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

I mean, a lot of people have had experiences like that where you pay the neighbor kid like $5 for, you know, can you come be my mommy's helper? You know, and they're nine, so. Yeah, that word is definitely not. I mean, it can be used in all different contexts. And truth be told, the nine year old can be a great helper. I mean, for $5, like, come and play with my toddler. You wrote the phrase helper, army, strong, rescuer. You know, going through the Hebrew there and the Hebrew even for what woman means there was one of the parts of the word that you related to, like that mama bear instinct. Like, so sometimes you feel like. I guess what it did for me, Courtney, is it's like sometimes you feel like maybe you're off. Like, why, you know, why do I have this mama bear instinct? You know, I think we all have that, right? Like, no, no. Like that actually is in the Hebrew word for the woman.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. And I. I started to even ask the question, like, a lot of women create nonprofits for the vulnerable. Where do you Think that comes from. It's that mama bear, like, protector instinct, Right. That father God has but his daughters carry. It's like it all began to make sense. Almost like, I mean, think about a mom, like when we get burdened about something, right. We pray different, we fight different. And it is, it's incredible. And it's actually like how we were created.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah, that's really powerful. The book starts off with that Technicolor woman. So I think people would love to read it. You know, that we have strength and power to plow and to look and behold and you know, to reveal beauty. All of these things, it just. I don't know what. It's empowering. I'd never heard of any of that.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

So I didn't even know you could get a Hebrew lexicon. This is great information.

[Courtney Smallbone]

It's so fun. I have my little pictograph at home. It's so fun, all the letters and it's a whole different thing. Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

That's incredible. And what a cool thing to start to pass down to your kids. Can you talk about women and insecurity? That's another thing that you talk about in this book, that a lot of high achievers are driven by fear and insecurity. Gossip is often rooted in insecurity, but also just insecurity is rampant, partially because of social media and just. I think partly it's our nature.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah. One of my favorite chapters to write was actually called the Midwives. That's what it's called. It's different than maybe what you expect. I, to me, like, the study of even like the womb and the woman and midwifery, all of these things. It's like it all speaks of a very specific thing about a woman. And it's actually spiritual. It's not just physical. Like God is so four dimensional, five D, you know? And so to me, it. It means something totally different. So in Call the Midwives, it was talking about how as women do, we see other women. Like, instead of what, like insecurity says I want that or I feel jealous of that. Whether it's like they're talented at that or they're. They're beautiful. All these things. Instead of those things.

[Jenny Urich]

Instead.

[Courtney Smallbone]

I actually think the blueprint for women is to unify, because obviously the enemy loves to disunify. Like, he hates marriages, he hates churches, he hates prayer groups, he hates relationships. So if he can disunify, he's one. So to me, I'm like, if there's such disunity someplace, we should probably think about why? It must have a meaning, because I know in my life the women that are around me, it is incredible. It's like when there's no competition and there's no jealousy and there's love and there's like, I see that in you. Like, God placed that in you, and I get to see it, and it's reflecting him. It builds my faith. That's the opposite of jealousy and competition. But are we human? Yes, there are times I get jealous. But we need to ask the question, why am I jealous? What is making me jealous right now? Why do I feel competitive right now? And then instead of attacking the person, you can stop and you can say, God, I need help. Or, you know, can you do that for me? You know, you just switch the narrative because we need to live in this freedom of relationship and not have those boulders get in the way. And so it's understanding. We need women around us to birth the things that God has put in us. Just like we need a midwife when we are birthing our babies. You know, they're holding our hips and they're saying, I know you feel like you're gonna die, but actually you're about to give birth. Like, it's the last push, right? Every time it's transition, where you're like, I don't know. And then all of a sudden the baby's born. It's the same in our life, okay? It's the same thing. Like, God gives us a seed, and we develop it, and it grows and it grows. Then it's time to birth it. And there's people that come around us who are ready to support and encourage, and it's life changing. I've had it in my life. I get the honor to do it with people around us. And I think that flips the narrative of, like, the mean girls versus the midwives. Right? Like, we need midwives to come around and say, I will protect you. I will give you ice chips. You know, like, I will rub your back. But, like, birth it, you know?

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah. Wow. It's such a good analogy because the midwife isn't pregnant. They're not delivering. So they're there as a support, as a helper army and helping to make this generational impact. I love that parallel there. I mean, that's really incredible. And I think a lot of women don't get an experience with midwives these days. Yeah, now my mom did. My mom had a midwife with me, and I think that was a little bit more common. And now it's more. You have to sort of seek it out. But it really is powerful to have another woman that comes alongside of you. Well, you go through this huge transitioning process of growing a baby and then delivering a baby into the world, and then often the midwife is there. I mean, I still call mine. We got a rash. Someone's. Someone's got a rash. So what do we do? You know, they become that person. And so, okay, I would love to know then your story of. Because this isn't totally in the book, but there usually is a story, I think, behind it. So you grew up in Indiana. You end up down in Florida. Now you're on a cattle farm. So this is great. This is a really interesting path. You're on a cattle farm where you're homeschooling and home birthing both. So I would love to know what were some of your influences to become that type of person?

[Courtney Smallbone]

Oh, goodness. Well, I love. I love being outside. I guard. I love growing things. I think I love seeing things develop and grow. I think that's just in everything, whether that's like a plant, a human being, a child. Like, I just love growth. Like a growth junkie is what I actually call it. So I'm a growth junkie. And I love how nature reflects God. So I learn a lot being hands on. So even, like, okay, like, even with the cows, it's interesting because vultures will start swirling around when the cows are about to give birth. So they smell it. They're wanting to catch the baby at the most vulnerable time. And so it's like these parabolic things that I see in real life that draws me in in such a different way, where I'm like, oh, my goodness, the vultures come when you're about to birth something new. And you need to be watchful and you need to be aware, and you need to protect that young life, like that very vulnerable thing. And so I am just a very tangible person, like, hands on. And I don't know, it's like, it teaches, right? I think even Jesus in the Bible, he used parables. He used what was around him. And so to have eyes to kind of look around instead of like, oh, these chickens. Like, I would study the chickens. Like, why are they the way that they are? You know? And, like, it's all just beautiful and it all speaks. It's. But yeah, with the cows. We just had another birthday the other day, and I was planting basil, and the cow gave birth, like, while I'm planting. And then Leo, my third son, he was like, it's a girl name it Basil. You know, it's so. It's like planting basil. Basil gives birth and I just love, I love the fun of it. Like, I love the adventure of it of like, you never know what's gonna happen. And I don't know, but that was funny to me.

[Jenny Urich]

Okay, that's like a really cute cow name. Basil. That's just kind of a cute name. Basil. Basil is a cute name. Does anybody name this? It's really cute.

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[Jenny Urich]

So, okay, so then was that the impetus? So here's what I'm trying to get at. Yeah, we had home births. Yeah, but it was like my last option. I tried out. I tried to do a birth center and anyway my winterry. But I don't know if I would have been brave enough to try a home birth from the beginning. And you know, so what were your influences is like, was it that? Was it nature? And you're kind of like, oh, this is a natural process. And I see it with the animals. Like, I'm just impressed. Like, how did you know to do the midwife? How does someone know I want to do a natural childbirth, I want to homeschool, I want a homestead. There's always like sort of if you Don't.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yes.

[Jenny Urich]

And maybe you grew up that way a little bit, but Florida, I don't know. It doesn't seem like it. Right. So there's got to be, like, influences along the way that took you down that path toward natural childbirth with a midwife and farming and homeschooling.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yes. I mean, for having my kids, I never thought of having them any other way other than naturally without intervention. I. I even had a lot of people try to scare me out of it, like, with my first, like, oh, you're gonna. It's gonna be too hard, and all this stuff. I actually felt more. More fear about interventions than just letting it happen. So with. With the midwifery, I mean, we're. We're in, like, south of Nashville, and so we're close to, like, the Ename Gaskin, you know, tribe down there in Summertown. And so I read a lot of her books, and they made sense. I know. She's awesome. I went to their little farm store, and so I started reading about how to do this. Right. Like, almost taking all the fear out of it, because there's been a lot of fear towards women having children. Okay. Like, getting pregnant. I see it everywhere. Getting pregnant, having a baby, having children. There's so much fear in our American culture. I mean, I actually just read something this morning that Elon Musk was talking about. Our birth rate is so low, which I was, like, shocked that he would even say that, but I see it everywhere. I have so many conversations. I mean, I'm in my mid-30s, and I have four kids. I know. No, I'm not. I'm like. They're like, what did you do? You're like, I've heard everything. You've wasted your life. Don't you want to have a career first? I've heard so many things, but I don't even get offended at that. I start asking questions because typically, I have found a lot of, whether it's trauma, childhood trauma, fear, unhealed places that cause people to not want children. Right? So it's like, I don't know. I'm a root system girl. So I'm like, what are the root systems of why you don't want to or why are you afraid? Or what are you afraid of? And get to the root system. But a lot of people don't, right? A lot of people just, like, look away. But to me, I mean, we got married, and one of the first things was I was like, we're gonna have babies. And, yes. It's like, freaking country. It was like, we were van and trailering it. Like it was not cute. We had no money, we were like lower than poor. And yet here we are, like, like.

[Jenny Urich]

We'Re gonna have a baby.

[Courtney Smallbone]

And yet I was like, what was I, 22? And so it's like, what? And so, I don't know, it's this topsy turvy world. I think I. I also was super, super sick when I was 18. I had a disease and they told me I might not have children. So I think the perspective of I might not be able to have children. And it really rocked me because it was a desire. And so for me, first things first, I wanted to see could because I think they're really important and I can't imagine doing my life without my like posy with me. To me they're like, I don't think I could do it without them because they're part of their my. Why, like, why did I write the book? They gave me courage because I'm like, your little eyes need to see this and know this. It gives me courage. It flips the narrative that like, children are a problem, children are hard, all this stuff. Children take your life. I'm like, I'm sorry. They, they gave me a life, okay? They helped be like God, the potter. They helped form these things even in me as I'm forming them. It's like that narrative, it's one of my favorite things to talk about because I'm like, nope. Because the enemy hates life, hates abundant life. And God is the giver of life and abundant life and resurrection life. And so I don't know, I'm going on a tangent, but that was one of the reasons why having children and going the midwife route and then with homeschooling, it just made sense because we are traveling. So it's not like we're gonna try and live this 9 to 5 life in a not 9 to 5 world. So it's like, let's not separate the family. Let's not live five different lives or six different lives. It's like, let's be a unit, you know, which was very common back in the day. Not as much now, but it seems to study wise, be really healthy, to stay as a unit and to work as a unit. You know, the kids have grown up on the road. They know how to do lights, they know how to set things up. You know, they're not just hanging around, they bring joy on the road to people. It's so cool. You travel to different cities, different countries. It's forming them it's shaping them. So I probably fell into homeschool because I think I said at one point I would never. I did a lot of. I would never. I would never marry a musician. I would never. I didn't actually want to have children when I was younger, and I would never homeschool. And here I am, plus Basil, plus.

[Jenny Urich]

The cast, plus Basil. Well, I think sometimes we're just misguided, and I. That's why I think books like yours, Courtney, are so important, because we didn't have kids right away. And I've talked about this before. Like, we waited five years. It was some sort of a societal message, and I'm so bummed about it. I think we would have had more kids. And I don't know who said it, but it was this, like, sort of sweeping societal message. And I've got friends like you that, like, got married and they had kids right away, and, you know, they're. They're very happy, and they. It was great. And I just think I'm always impressed because I'm like, well, how did you know? Or, like, you were able to push back against those societal messages. And, like, you're going to Ina McGaskin stuff and you're reading her. And I think that it takes a special kind of person to push back against cultural messages and to say, I'm going to do it a different way. And then when you put things out into the world, like a book or podcast episodes or songs or anything like that, it just at least gives people an idea that, hey, there's other thoughts about this, and you might love having a bunch of children in your life, and you might love taking them on the road and living as a unit with whatever your family business is. We have. Our oldest was dating, so oldest. He's a teen, and so he was dating, and he was dating this girl that wasn't homeschooled. So I was like, oh, okay. But, like, they're not gonna understand our kind of wacky life. So we were having these discussions beforehand, like, going over dinner. He's like, well, when they asked me about school, like, what are some of your thoughts on? Because it's just so different. It's so different. And I was like, well, you could tell him that you know how to set up a booth at a conference. Same type of thing. I'm not saying that, but it is real. And those are actual skills that they can have conversations with other people. They can sell things. And I just read this book called God's Not Wrong. It hasn't come out yet. But it's about how social science backs up the Bible.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Wow.

[Jenny Urich]

It's a fantastic book by this man named Mark Gerson. And he was talking about how in. And he's Jewish. That in the death camp that. I don't know exactly what the story was. It was like a dad told his son or they were passing the message on to the children in these death camps to smile, because their smile might be what brings joy to the other people, the other people that are suffering. And it was, like, about the power of a child and the power of a smile. And, like, that's what you said. They bring joy on the road. That's, like, actually a really big statement, Courtney. Like, that matters. It. You know, it matters. The presence of a child and the vitality of a child and their energy and their spunk and all of those types of things. So just so much to learn from you. Stay as a unit. And now you're homeschooling and natural childbirth with the midwife and your cattle farm. Let's hit one last topic here before we wrap up.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Which is an important one, especially talking about large families and kids and homeschooling and farming. You talk about rest. Mm. And you say that. Oh, I actually have two topics. I have another thing.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Start.

[Jenny Urich]

I don't want to get it. Okay. You talk about rest now. You talk about rest in the garden. Those parallels. Right. You can't just keep using the same soil over and over and over again. It gets depleted. But you had this sentence, rest is a weapon. Tell us more.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah. So I have a quote in there. And it's like, if the enemy can't make you bad, he'll make you busy. And so rest is the weapon. So, you know, burnout. So, like, yes, run hard, run. You know, run your race, but also don't burn out. I think that's another cautionary thing that we have put into our life. One of the practices we put in our life is rest, is we all sleep well. Okay. Like, even from tiny. Like the. Like having rest, having quiet time. I don't think it's normal to have kids that don't sleep. Okay. You teach them rest, But God also teaches us rest. It is to not work some days. But it's more than that because there's different types of rest to engage in. So it's the rest of, like, I don't need to be helpful right now. Right. I don't need to work right now. I don't need to. You can engage in different things, engage in friendship Engage in. Oh, I want a watercolor. There's these different attributes of rest, and I think it's really important, especially as mothers, as parents, all of that, you know, you hear in. Especially in American society, everyone is just, I'm just so tired. I'm just so. And I'm like, then rest. Like, it's almost worn as a badge. I'm sorry. Did I just offend some people out there? I think I hit something. But it's like, you know what? You can't flow out of an empty cup, period. And so when I am full, I am a better wife. I am a better mother. I'm a better friend. I can show up here, I can pour out. I actually think that's God's design for us. And typically, when we are tired, we will be more susceptible to enemy attacks, right? We're tired, we're hungry, all those things. I call it the Elijah complex sucks because Elijah, you know, like, the prophets of baal, and then, you know, Jezebel's after him, and he's just like, I just want to die.

[Jenny Urich]

It's.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Everything's too hard. And then, like, an angel's like, have a nap. Have a snack, okay? And it's the same for us. Sometimes we're like, everything is so hard. I just want to quit. I mean, I do that. I mean, let's be honest. There's. Sometimes I'm like, overwhelmed. And it's funny, because Luke will be like, have you eaten today? It's as simple as that. Have you nourished yourself? How'd you sleep last night? You know, it's like, we sometimes think things are so up here, and it's actually very basic of, like, rhythms of rest, rhythms of being unavailable, rhythms of being offline, rhythms of working hard and playing hard and resting hard. And these rhythms are soul satisfying. They're like, mind, body, spirit. God is a holistic God. So it's mind, body, spirit. And so when I'm rested, right? Deeply rested, I mean, watch out, okay? Like, and we know the difference. And there's seasons where it's like. It's different. You know, you have seasons of sickness. All of those things. Those are really real. But you can still find the water of rest. And. And you train yourself to, again, go against cultural messages. Cultural messages of, you know, just. Just. You just work and you're exhausted and your kids suck, and, like, marriage, it's like, all this. And I'm like, the opposite. I'm like, actually, no, you know, we are meant to be full of life, full of Vitality and finding ways to do that is really important.

[Jenny Urich]

I love that you had in Technicolor woman like you were talking about. I actually haven't read this anywhere else because, you know, people are like, you gotta rest. But you were like, well, here's the reasons why we don't. Pride. So many things block us from entering rest. Pride can keep us working harder than anyone. And loving to shove it in people's faces as you take anti acids. That's great. That's a great sentence.

[Courtney Smallbone]

I love that you pulled that one out.

[Jenny Urich]

Actually. It was really eye opening to be like, well, yeah, why don't we rest? Pride. Fear.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Fear keeps us burning the candle at both ends because we're. Our worth is wrapped up in doing it. Or we feel that we have to be the. The ones that are the providers. The provision. Guilt. This was a really big one.

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Guilt.

[Jenny Urich]

Actually, I think this is like huge for moms. Guilt keeps you from resting because you're like, well, there's so many things I should be doing.

[Courtney Smallbone]

That's it.

[Jenny Urich]

And you wrote this. It's better to leave things undone than to come undone.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urich]

Oh, that was good. So I love that you just put that in there. There's a little bit of reasons behind it as we're wrapping up because there was one other thing that had big stars and it's red. Okay. This is another. Another, like great quotes in this book. Very thought provoking. Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing. I've never heard this quote. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right. That's big. Can you talk about that just a little bit as we're wrapping up? I mean, especially in your life. Like you have four kids, you're. You're on your cattle farm, you're in music and music industry and traveling and tour bus. I love that you said we all sleep well because I think that's extra impressive. You're not like, you know, you're not home all the time. So it is extra impressive that you're figuring out how to sleep well in this, you know, the, the lifestyle that you have. How are you finding discernment with your daily decisions, with all of those inner working pieces?

[Courtney Smallbone]

One of the things we say a lot in our house is just because you can doesn't mean you should. So I mean, I could go do that, but what's the cost of doing that? So I think with discernment there are a lot of good things, right? There's a lot of good things A lot of good things to do. But are they the great things? Right? I think about life like a target, and I want to hit that middle red part. There's a lot of things outside I could do, and maybe I'm even like gifted to do all this stuff. But what is God burning within you, you know, and stay on target. So, like, I, I write this down, but I write down seasonally what are my focuses? And so it's like, okay, what are my focuses? This, this, this, this, this. And so when things come in, or people ask things, all these things, does it line up? It's good, but it's not. Not great. And time is life. Time is a currency of life. Energy is a currency of life. Attention is a currency of life. And so when I think of discernment, I think, how am I spending my life? And it's those little things that we can get off on these tangents. And I'm like, I've done it so many times. I've done it so many seasons where I'm like, I shouldn't have done that. That took like, you know, that feeling like that was a hole. It took like 20 hours and I can't get the actual that back. And it felt worthless. It's. It's filtering things differently through that where it's like very sharp discernment of. Think about it. Like you can lose your soul doing good Christian work, okay? I mean, you see it like there's a cleaning of house happening in the churches. It's like, but how do we stay on target? How do we stay connected to the, to the vine and bear good fruit and, and be immovable off of that, you know, like, don't waste your life. Trust that discernment too, for yourself, for your marriage, for your family, even if no one else is doing it. Because, I mean, a lot of. I feel very much like I'll go even if no one else will. Like, I just. That's kind of been like a motto of like, I'll do it even if no one else does. Because if I know it's right and I feel the discernment, it's like, like, even, like people listening, it's like, trust that discernment and that wisdom to lead your life that way. And don't be moved. Don't be moved because there's something to that that's specific for your life.

[Jenny Urich]

And it's interesting because, like, similar to the rest and you're, you know, prioritizing sleep, but you're on the road, tour buses and all that. Type of thing. You're in a situation that's probably somewhat unique where you could have as many opportunities probably as you want to. I mean, you could be going everywhere. You could have stuff every single night of the week and the weekend and several things per day. I mean, the amount of opportunities out there are probably practically endless. And so you just have to really have discernment between what's right and what's almost right.

[Courtney Smallbone]

That's.

[Jenny Urich]

It's a really big deal. What a quote, Courtney. What an honor. What an honor. The Technicolor Woman is the book a transformative 31 day journey into the identity of women, women and living life in full color. It is wonderful and it's just a beautiful book. A wonderfully beautiful book. You can check out the website technicolorwoman.com we always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

[Courtney Smallbone]

Oh, my goodness. I love that question. Okay, the first thing that came to mind. So in Indiana, I we had a neighbor who had cornfields and I would run through the cornfields until like, I got lost and like turned around and, you know, it's like all above my head. And I just loved the feeling of being lost in the cornfields.

[Jenny Urich]

So it's amazing. That's amazing because I think a lot of people would say I was. I'm terrified of the feeling. Courtney, thank you so much. Thank you for put what you're putting out in the world a reminder that this would be a great book for anyone to read. You can even read it as a family and talk about the different ideas that are all the way through. They're really applicable to anyone. Focuses on women, but just a lot of good things of life, the path of life that you want to take and those encouragements. Thank you for being here.

[Courtney Smallbone]

Oh, thank you so much.

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