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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 497: Why the Hardest Childhoods Sometimes Raise the Most Beautiful Humans | Sean Dietrich, Sean of the South
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- [00:01]
Unknown Speaker
Imagine raising your children and going through your entire life never having seen a Bible in your own language, never being able to open God's word for comfort, truth, or direction. For many around the world, that's reality. But that is changing. CREW has missionaries in nearly every country, and they are seeing people come to faith in Jesus in incredible numbers. In Africa, believers are sharing one Bible among entire communities. In Europe, teens are asking for Bibles faster than we can provide them. And in places where Christianity is underground, the gospel is exploding, but access to scripture has not caught up. That's why I love partners partnering with crew. They're working to put Bibles into the hands of those who are desperate for truth. With just 24amonth, you can give three people the gift of God's word every month. And as a thank you, crew will provide 12 meals to those in need. And you'll receive a free copy of my book until the street lights come on. To give, text our H o u r to 71326 or visit give.crew.org hour that's H O u r to 71326 message and data rates may apply US addresses only. Your monthly gift can truly make a massive and eternal impact.
- [01:08]
Jenny Urich
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urich, and this is a special summer mashup episode. Today we're spending time with the one and only Shawn Diedrich, or as many know him, Shawn of the South. Sean has joined us twice on the podcast and both conversations were full of depth. So much laughter, grief, and healing. His stories speak to the soul. So we have gathered the best moments from both episodes. Moments that will move you, make you smile, and remind you of the quiet power of ordinary days. Whether you're walking, driving, folding laundry, or sitting on the porch, this one's for you.
- [01:45]
Sean Diedrich
My childhood was not a pretty one, but I believe ugly childhoods make pretty people. Can you encourage the person who is in an ugly childhood right now or who has gone through one themselves and now they're an adult?
- [01:58]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that could be my favorite part of the book, that line. And that happened. I was typing and I was weeping while I was typing, which doesn't often happen. And I had to stop working. And I remember thinking about little me and. You live in this void. When you go through a broken family life, when you go through a bad childhood, when you go through a. A trauma of any kind, when you suffer, you live in this void, this vacuum where you feel utterly and entirely isolated from humankind alone. That's the. The feeling but it's just a thought. It's just a thought coming from your brain. It's not the truth. And thoughts in your brain are really just phenomena of the brain. It's just the brain has to keep thoughts running and running and running and running. It doesn't mean it's the truth. Just because you thought it doesn't mean really that you're the one thinking it. It's just. It's the brain that did that to you. It's not true. You're not alone. And you will learn that one day. One day you will get into a place, not just in life, but a physical place. And you will meet somebody. And maybe you'll meet more than one somebody, maybe there'll be four or five somebody. And you will realize in that moment that this person understands me. Like on a deep level. This person doesn't just, you know, kind of understand. They've been through something too, and so does. So does this person. And wait, so does he. He understands it too. And that will blow your mind. You will think to yourself, oh, my gosh, I'm not alone. And that experience, if you open yourself up to it, will continue to happen to you over your life. And you will be constantly reminded that you are not alone. The suffering will not necessarily go away. You can't change the past that you've been through, that you will experience something that alleviates it, and that is companionship with like minded people who love you the way you love them. And that, to me, is the goal of life itself.
- [04:16]
Sean Diedrich
Sean doesn't shy away from the hardest things, but he always, always brings them back to hope. You offer the world a message of hope that life doesn't have to end when we have catastrophic events and that puzzle pieces can be put back together and that broken pieces can be put into a new, different kind of a whole piece. I read you Are My Sunshine. That was my first book I read of yours. And I mean, I was floored with your writing. Floored. And then in researching, I didn't know your backstory, Shawn. Like, I didn't know that you had dropped out of school. I didn't know that, you know, you'd had all these different things rejected. I didn't know. And it just is such a powerful reminder to all of us that we have a lot of. A lot that maybe could be there in the future. A lot that maybe could come back together. There could be redemption. So the book I read most recently of yours is called Will the Circle Be Unbroken? And I just think everybody should Read it. I mean, buy it for all your friends. Will the circle be Unbroken? A memoir of learning to believe you're going to be okay. I mean, I laughed. I laughed out loud. Sean and my kids are like this. You don't usually laugh out loud when you're reading a book. They were like, what is going on over there? And you have so many books, fiction. The incredible Winston Brown, Stars of Alabama, Lila Caution. This vehicle makes frequent stops for boiled peanuts. The other side of the bay, small towns, Labradors, barbecue biscuits, beer and Bibles. And then there's eight nonfiction. And you have two new books coming out. This is from someone who dropped out of school. John wow.
- [05:52]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it's. You find yourself overcompensating. You spend the rest of your adulthood really trying to prove to yourself, not to others, because you're used to disappointing others. It's what they think of you as it matters, believe me. But it's not, you know, you're never going to impress them, but you still have a shot at impressing yourself. So it kind of turned in writing, turned into a little bit of a compulsion for me because I would write something and it would feel really good and it would feel very therapeutic. And I think, well, I'm going to try that again. I'm going to try to emote more this time, or I'm going to try to make that the next one a little bit better or. And you end up. It ends up taking over your life. You end up not having. You end up not being able to experience much in your life without needing to go write about it. And when you do write about it, it makes the experience so much richer. It's amazing. It's. But yeah, I dropped out of school when I was. I was. My dad died when I was 11, and that was when I dropped out. I went back to school the first day after he ended his life by his own hand. And the kids on the school bus kind of scooted away from it. I remember feeling kind of bad about that. And then I went into our gymnasium where you had to sit and wait for your homeroom teacher to come get you. And I remember sitting in the gymnasium on the wooden bleachers, and the kids were kind of like scooting down the bleachers, and I was kind of by myself. I remember thinking, I don't ever want to come back to school. And my mother was in such a shell shock of a state, and we were so rural that that wasn't a big deal. That was doable. So I quit school and it was one of the worst decisions I ever made, and I've made some doozies, but it was also what made me who I am.
- [07:44]
Sean Diedrich
This next story is classic, Sean. A simple encounter on a trail turns.
- [07:49]
Jenny Urich
Into a lesson on kindness, fatherhood, and hope.
- [07:53]
Unknown Speaker
I'm a big fan of Yalls. Big fan. And as I was recording the audiobook for. I think it was this book. Yeah, yeah, it was this book. The audio engineer, woman named Sarah, she's recorded several audiobooks with me, and she had just given birth between the audiobooks that we had done. And so we were recording this book, and she said, have you ever heard of a thousand hours outside? And I said, well, yeah. And so we had this long conversation about how she was trying to implement a lot of the things that. That y' all talk about. It was such a neat conversation that when I was put in touch with you, it was such a. I mean, I had chills because it was such a full circle moment. So anyway, that's a little tidbit that's really cool. Yeah. I wrote during the pandemic, we. We rode about 400 miles. And my wife, who is just like a go getter, and I've never been called a go getter, she wanted to ride this trail. And it was. It goes across four states, goes all the way from Pennsylvania, weaves down through Maryland, West Virginia, ends in Virginia. And we did it. And I'm afraid of bicycles. I just do not. Every time I get onto a bike, a bike falls. So I somehow got this tricycle. And every time I'd pass people on the trail, they'd watch me pass by and they go, bless his heart. I wonder what's wrong with him.
- [09:18]
You know, he's so brave.
- [09:23]
Sean Diedrich
You said something about, like, your geriatric. Like the kids were saying stuff.
- [09:28]
Unknown Speaker
Yes, yes. Like a big baralounger. And I was just, you know, riding through the woods. It was quite an experience.
- [09:36]
Sean Diedrich
Someone just said, that's a dumb looking bike. Okay, so here's the craziest thing, Sean. I was with one of my friends yesterday, and she says this. She said, hey. She's like, my brother is. His name's Peter. In case he listens. My brother is taking his son Asher. I'm a this thing called the CNO trail. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I totally know what that is from shock. That was a neat thing, too. I'd never heard of it in my life. And then I'm like, I know all about it now, and I know that you can do that. And the gap and the gap one right there. You can take both. You guys did both, even though that wasn't necessarily your plan. So I was, like, thrilled to know about it.
- [10:18]
Unknown Speaker
Okay.
- [10:18]
Sean Diedrich
But here's the story. And the story, actually, maybe as a lot of people's story, it's John Muir's story.
- [10:24]
Unknown Speaker
You know, you make these friends out.
- [10:25]
Sean Diedrich
There and you find out it's their story. It's like you're going along in life and then you get a health scare.
- [10:32]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [10:32]
Sean Diedrich
And that's sort of the impetus. It happens a couple years later, but this impetus toward living differently.
- [10:38]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [10:38]
Sean Diedrich
And that was other people's story, too. It's pretty interesting. Like, I didn't know John Muir lost his vision and then got it back.
- [10:43]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [10:44]
Sean Diedrich
And then he quit all the things he was doing and went to go walk a thousand miles.
- [10:48]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [10:48]
Sean Diedrich
So tell us a little bit of that story.
- [10:50]
Unknown Speaker
Well, I think it's like you just said, like, John Muir did that, and it motivated the rest of his life. He abandoned that line of work forever and chose to be outside. I think tragedies and health scares. What I'm putting together through people I meet is that this isn't all that uncommon, that it pushes people back toward extreme basics, toward nature, toward being out in the great beyond out here, which is. Which is really fascinating. Everybody that I talk to, who we do a lot of hiking now, after the. After writing that book, they all kind of have that story that some sort of tragedy or health scare particularly motivates people to see things that they had taken for granted. And I. I'm certainly part of that, too. But, yeah, it really reconnected us in a way that I had not been expecting, especially the lack of cell phones and, I mean, the lack of self. Because I won't ruin the story in case anybody reads it, but we had some cell phone issues, and then we were. We were basically living the old way. And that really, really locked me into the experience compared to any other experience I've ever had. And I would say that not long after that book, I got way back into my phone again. It's so hard not to. I don't know that there's a way not to actually in our culture. But just recently, for the past seven days, I'm here at a lake house right now, writing. I walked into the water with the cell phone in my pocket, and I lost my phone to it. And I've been without a phone for today's the ninth day. And just in nine days, I have been so reconnected to just my own brain, to nature, to everything. Because I am. I wake up in the morning usually, and the first thing I do is check my phone. For these last nine mornings, it's amazing. I wake up and I go out to the kitchen. I drink my coffee or tea and I just sit and I. I can't tell you how valuable that's been to me though. That quiet time where my brain is putting things together and I'm just alone with my thoughts. I think I've forgotten how to be bored. I think I've forgotten how to embrace that childlike boredom. So anyway, I don't know where I was going with that, but. But that was one of my biggest tastes, of reconnection with nature, for sure.
- [13:14]
Jenny Urich
Sean calls himself a humorist, but that.
- [13:16]
Sean Diedrich
Doesn'T mean his stories are light.
- [13:18]
Jenny Urich
In fact, he's worked hard to find the funny in the hard things. To take the sharp edges of life and turn them into something healing. This next part is about that process.
- [13:27]
Unknown Speaker
But I guess what I'm getting, what I'm hinting at is that when you write a story like about yourself and especially about trauma, you become a detached party and you see things and you feel compassion and you feel a love you didn't know you could share with yourself. And I feel, I felt such compassion on little Sean and on my mother and on my sister and on my. And. And this is what I was really getting at on my father. I fel an incredible sense of compassion on my dad. And even though he was in many people's lives, including my mother's, the villain, he was a human being who got lost in the ocean of his own bad choices. And I felt, I felt compassion on him I'd never felt before. And that was a profound experience. And ultimately, hopefully it led toward breaking that, that curse, you know, and you.
- [14:24]
Sean Diedrich
Did, you broke it because you wrote. My father had a troubled childhood. His mother was a Swiss German with six children and a drunk for a husband. She was tall, lean and angry. She used her hands to get her messages across. His father was also thick handed and strong. And when he drank, he was a fury. And I just thought, wow, there's such hope in this story. Like if you've got this past, if you have this lineage that you would like to shift. Shift your story for what's to come.
- [14:49]
Unknown Speaker
Yes.
- [14:49]
Sean Diedrich
And you did that. And so it's a beautiful part. And this, I mean, I think everybody, every single person should read this book. I already bought a second copy. I'll show you here I'm Like, I'm already like, okay, I already have people in mind. Who am I giving these to? I'm like, I, I, oh, I loved it. And I laughed and I cried.
- [15:06]
Unknown Speaker
Well, I'm glad you said that about laughter because like I said, I, my, I make my living as a humorist. I mean, when I told the publisher what I had in mind, my editor was such a beautiful soul, Stephanie. And she, she said, so what do you, how do you see this book going? I said, well, I see it being telling my story, but I also want it to be, have a big amount of humor and fun and, and I want it to be fun because that's how, that's who I am and that's who I've worked so hard to become. Because it's hard to refine your humor after something so bad. But it also, it's, I believe humor is the only thing that keeps mankind sane. And so I said, I really want to be able to tell this story with humor. I don't want it to be a bitter gall to drink. I want it to be a nice tasting, well bodied drink. You know, like, if it, if it were, you know, a drink. And she said, well, that's really hard to do. I, I don't know if that can even be done. And that should have been my cue to like, you know, you know, it might not work. But I did try to take a lighthearted view of most of the things that I went through.
- [16:16]
Sean Diedrich
What I wrote was, it's like stand up comedy in a book. It was phenomenal. I mean, I laughed. I have a whole section here of parts where I laughed out loud. I made a note where I laughed out loud. I laughed out loud. When you forgot your shoes to your wedding, you said you looked like Tickles the Clown. You said that you had to borrow someone's shoes and you said, they look like pontoons, they were so big. I laughed at that. I laughed. When you were dressed like a Care Bear, couldn't find a job, and you end up at this ice cream place and the uniform, you're like, I don't care. I need a job to like, you're gonna have to wear pink. And you know, you're wearing the thing and, and there was ruffles. It was like a whole thing. And then someone came in that you knew that you had used to date and had broken up with you because they didn't think you were like, high class enough. And you said, I was dressed. The uniform was indeed pink. Also, management dictated that employees were required to wear a pink sun visor. The serving apron had ruffles. Had ruffles on the edges and an embroidered teddy bear on the chest. You know, and in walks Mary. You know, this girl who is, you know, wealthy and she's walking with. You called him James Bond. You know, a guy with the girl was with a tall man who had devastatingly broad shoulders, a square jaw, and teeth so white he looked like Risen Savior. And you said I look like, you know, Strawberry Shortcake or Care Bears. I mean, I laughed.
- [17:49]
Unknown Speaker
You know, that's such a fun thing to do for me to process that was a really painful moment in my life. But to process it with humor, it's such a. I, I wish I could share that with kids who are going through a really hard time because it's so healing. You feel you get so much good out of it. If you can paint the story in your mind in the way that makes you laugh, it's so healing.
- [18:19]
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- [21:30]
Sean Diedrich
This next part hit me hard. Sean talks about the people who really.
- [21:33]
Jenny Urich
Show up for us and how sometimes.
- [21:35]
Sean Diedrich
They'Re the ones we least expect and to find. You found camaraderie. I thought that was an interesting thing too. Like right at the very beginning you talked about it. It was like you were lost. Yeah, and all of a sudden it's like you're picking up stragglers like all these. You said at the end there was 13. You can't even find the start of the trail. I mean, it's starts off that way.
- [21:54]
Unknown Speaker
Yes.
- [21:54]
Sean Diedrich
How do experiences like this really build that camaraderie?
- [21:57]
Unknown Speaker
Well, you know, so down here, we're in lower Alabama and the Gulf coast of Florida, which is where I grew up, about 38, 40 miles from the Alabama line. When a hurricane comes through, something happens to the community. Something happens to the. To your specific community with people you don't know. You can be out in public, a gas station, at the Home Depot, getting your plywood or whatever it is, and everybody is talking to each other. They're all smiling, they're all talking. There's this thrill in the air because this big storm is coming, and we're all. We're all suffering this storm together, whether we like to or not, or we're leaving. Whatever it is, we're talking about it, and we all have this thing to talk about. And it's so fascinating for me to stand in that cashier line and watch complete strangers have this camaraderie that never exists during our normal life. And I experienced that same feeling on the trail because we were all in this. This moderate circumstance that felt a little bit like peril.
- [23:04]
And you were.
- [23:05]
You were going through it together. And the only people you had to help you through it or talk about it or just vent were the people who were going through it with you. And it's amazing the little parts of humanity that come out during these experiences, at least for me to see. You know, I don't have a. This, you know, in my camping kit. And someone immediately goes to their camp kit. They do. And here, you can have it.
- [23:30]
I have two.
- [23:31]
Or. Here, you can borrow this. I'm not using it. This one's my wife. That's happening all around you all the time. Someone's got a flat tire. Someone's stopping and saying, hey, you need help, you know, because we're all in this. Literally all in this together. And it was. It was so cool. That was you. You high five people who you've never met before because you both crossed the finish line. That was so pleasant. That was maybe one of my favorite parts about the trail altogether was this. There were no walls between us.
- [24:02]
Sean Diedrich
Yeah. It's powerful. And then you talked about what's interesting, like, the paths would weave here and there, depending on probably when people stopped and rested and some people were walking. We talked about two men who helped fix your trike.
- [24:15]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [24:15]
Sean Diedrich
And you really couldn't quite figure it out. They were doing it. I mean, like, early in the morning.
- [24:20]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [24:21]
Just on their own.
- [24:22]
Sean Diedrich
Like, you didn't even have to ask. I mean, this is not the world we live in. Like you. The braids was something like at the grocery store. Like, people get annoyed if you don't put the little divider and the next person's thing, like the juxtaposition of that versus is. Here are these men who just see that your trike needs fixed, and so they're fixing it. But then your path came back around and you saw them later and you ended up talking with one of them about your dad taking his life and what he thought about that.
- [24:51]
Unknown Speaker
It's amazing. That was amazing to me. It's. You go out there and people. There's a name for it. They. People on the trails, on different trails, they call it trail magic. And there is something out there. There's this feeling that there are no accidents. There are no accidents happening here. Everything has this ordained purpose, it feels like. And those guys are perfect example that for me. But there's lots of examples. And you're out there, and after you get past the first pangs of misery, you get this feeling that you're not doing this alone. There is something. Something else out there with you. There is some providence that is helping you through this. And in fact, that providence is always there and it's always helping you through. You just are not always aware of it because you're not always stripped down quite as to quite the minimalist lifestyle you're living when you're out there on the trail. But yes, people. People don't have those same barriers.
- [25:54]
Sean Diedrich
They're.
- [25:54]
Unknown Speaker
They're kind, they're nice. I rarely met. I rarely. I couldn't. I don't think I could tell you, but one or two people who were not kind on the trail, out of all the people we met, Everybody, I would say 99.999 are very kind. Not just cordial, but very, very nice.
- [26:13]
Sean Diedrich
That's so interesting too, because it's so the opposite of what you experienced with your actual family.
- [26:19]
Unknown Speaker
Yes.
- [26:19]
Sean Diedrich
Like you out. On the day of my father's funeral, my father's family all sat on one side of the church and kept their distance from me and my sister. They didn't even speak to my mother. They wrote my sister and I out of the will. I never knew my grandparents. It was like my father had put a curse on her whole family. But you can't even really wrap your head around that. Like, you cannot. These Two children who lost their dad and this woman who lost her husband and now is a widow and is going to be raising these kids and to not even speak to her. And then you have these people who you don't even know and you may not ever see again. They didn't even know your name, and yet they're going to fix your bike for you.
- [27:02]
Unknown Speaker
Well, not right there. In a nutshell is the story of my entire life. The story of my life has been the people who have loved me the hardest, the people who have affected me the most, the people who have been the kindest to me and been the guiding presence in my life, especially in times of need, have all been strangers who came out of their own volition to help me. And that if life is the trail, and this is a big allegory, that's how I've gotten through life. It hasn't been the people, people who were family, who were supposed to love you, quote unquote. It hasn't been the people who were supposed to help you. It was the folks who had absolutely no skin in the game and they decided for whatever the reason, the motivation to help. And it's. That's my life. That. And I'm. I feel very fortunate. But really, I'm not unique. Everybody. That's everybody. We all, I believe we all, all have found our tribe and other people.
- [28:06]
Sean Diedrich
What a powerful way to be able to pass on that message. Well, my favorite phrase in the whole book, you said I had passed entire eras beneath fluorescent lighting, staring at a single monitor, which I think a lot of us relate to that. Right? I mean, a whole era, a whole decade sometimes.
- [28:22]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [28:23]
Sean Diedrich
Writing words instead of living them. Wow, that phrase. And that's what you did. You went out there and you lived it. And then you have like all of these allegories and all of these stories and things that you can take from for the rest of your life. So, I mean, the book, I just absolutely. I mean, I so enjoyed reading it. I was so entertained. I loved the poor grammar. Good, clever. There's some things in there to find that are. I liked how Jamie stole all of the KitKats and the Snickers. Really entertained. Like, there was parts where, I mean, I just was caught off guard and I was not expecting it and just thought it was so funny, but really just such a deep story. I think of we're all longing for more and often we're just stuck writing instead of actually living.
- [29:15]
Jenny Urich
Sean recalls a promise he made to his mother before she passed away to tell their Family story. This segment includes her reaction. You told it all. And how fulfilling that promise brought healing. It's rich and deeply moving.
- [29:29]
Sean Diedrich
The writing is phenomenal.
- [29:31]
Unknown Speaker
Well, thank you. I. That book, that. That's my. I put my heart and my soul into it, and I do that with all my books, but that one stands out as the most special thing I've ever taken the time to do. And my mother, it was. It was too. It was just too much. She wouldn't read it for the longest time. She couldn't read it, bring herself to read it. And then finally, a long time after it came out, she. She read it. And I was wondering how much I'd get from her in a response. And she. She gave me a very kind of a quick response, but it was heartfelt. And she said, I read your book. And I thought, oh, oh, okay. And she said, you told it. You told it all. And that was it. And I thought, well, that was high praise coming from my mother, you know, because we. We didn't talk about a lot of this stuff. And that's. That's one of the defining characteristics of trauma in families, especially, like a one that everybody experiences together. You just kind of don't talk about it. You know, you just kind of move on. And so my goal is to get people to talk about it. Talk. You know, talk about what happened. In my case, it was suicide and abuse and not talk about it. It's like releasing us from a wound. You know, the infection is freed and you can finally heal.
- [30:55]
Sean Diedrich
It's so cool, Sean, because that's what she asked you to do. She asked you tell them our story. Will you promise me that?
- [31:02]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [31:03]
Sean Diedrich
And so if her response was, you told it all, that was you completing that promise.
- [31:08]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [31:08]
Sean Diedrich
And doing the thing that she had asked of you to do.
- [31:11]
Unknown Speaker
You know, I've forgotten. I've forgotten that I put that in there. That's. I mean, that just gave me chills because that's. I remember the day that she told me that. And I. And I just. In the story that I just told you about her, that just gave me all sorts of goose pimples.
- [31:27]
Sean Diedrich
Yeah, the response. I mean, that's what she had asked you to do. There's a lot of kids that listen in, Sean, and I think a lot of people who come from broken homes. One of the things you wrote is everyone has had a hard life. Some have had it harder than others, but all have suffered, and suffering is suffering. I learned that everyone has had a difficult childhood. Everyone has felt alone at one Time or another, everyone has felt the same way I felt. I came to understand that I was not alone and never had been.
- [31:51]
Jenny Urich
Sean's relationship with his dad was layered. Beautiful at times and brutal at others. Here's how he describes growing up with. With someone who often felt like two different people.
- [32:02]
Sean Diedrich
And I also was just reading on your website this morning, and these are really recent things that you wrote. I mean, it was May 25th, and that was just like a couple days ago, May 28th. And you're talking about your. It's good writing, Sean. I was like, I just want to sit on here and read these out loud to people, what I did this summer. So this is. Did you just recently write this? Do you repost?
- [32:25]
Unknown Speaker
Well, no. I've been riding Every day for 10 years. Every. Every day. And they come out every day, and they've been coming out every day for 10 years. It's really clinical insanity is what it is, but it's become who I am.
- [32:40]
Sean Diedrich
Wow, Sean, this is, like, one of the most amazing things I read. And it just came out. So, okay, you said you were a chubby redhead from a strict fundamentalist family, and then you were. I think a lot of people will relate to this. You were talking about, you know, you come back to school and this is, what. What did you do this summer? And everybody has to write a piece on what did you do this summer? And you're saying everyone else is like, water skiing. Said I was memorizing Revelation 13 during seven different summer VBS programs. Okay, so tell us a little bit about how you grew up. You grew up in this fundamental church, but your dad was abusive.
- [33:20]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that. And that's really. There's really hardly any reconciliation. Those two people that he was. He died by suicide. So he was.
- [33:30]
He.
- [33:31]
He had a lot of demons, and yet he was a great man when he was the other guy. So. And actually, that has become such a heavy theme in my writing. And when I go do the live events, which we do about 80% of the year, the number one thing I hear from people who kind of like, stick around for the meet and greet. Meet and greet afterwards is that they, too, grew up underneath the veil of suicide. And as from a family member or through kind of a really rough way of growing up. So. So those. Those are themes that I've been including in my work for a long time on act. I mean, just because it's who I am. But he was. They were staunch fundamentalists. My mother kind of drug him into that, and he was like two men so there was the good timer in him, kind of the guy who liked to have a good time and drink beer. And then there was the fundamentalist part of him. And he was an iron worker, a construction worker from a German family, big German family. And they had their issues, but. So that was. That was how I grew up. And I grew up in a tiny little church. And we were terrified to not walk the line because we were afraid that either the Lord would come back and we'd be left behind or. That's when I think I got in my. The biggest trouble I ever got in. When my mother said, you know, if you don't shape up, the Lord's going to come and leave you behind.
- [35:00]
And I thought, you mean he's going.
- [35:02]
To take all y' all in the church up there and I'm going to be down here without y' all? She said, yeah. I said, well, that don't sound that bad, but I write a lot about that. And there's a difference between. I've noticed in the travels that we've done. We've been all over the U. S. That there's a difference in the brand of religion down south and then there is in the Midwest and in the upper Midwest. And it's actually really refreshing to go to the. To your part of the world because they're a little more well adjusted down here. They're still handling snakes.
- [35:41]
Sean Diedrich
Interesting. Well, I mean, the way that you were. I was like, that's entertaining. Also relatable. You know, you say you never even had a hot dog. My. My father and his friends, all deacons. This is like. I mean, it's just like the juxtaposition of life. Right? It's just such a mess. Walked up to the beer vendor and ordered. They were wearing caps, pulled down in heavy sunglasses like they were in witness protection. I remember sitting in the nosebleeds. My cousin and I ordered hot dogs from a vendor. We had never seen an actual hot dog before. That's how sheltered we were. So just talking about. I was, like, thoroughly entertained, like I said. And I opened this up and I said, May 25th. And then, I mean, it just keeps going and going and going.
- [36:26]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it. I started writing when I was. I mean, like I say, it's been about 10 years. So we were on a trip and I had gone to a rough time because I wanted to go. I went. I dropped out of school when I was in the seventh grade after my dad died. So I wanted to go back to school. And I went as a grown Man, I went back to a community college and I got my equivalent education and took a bunch of remedial classes, and I finally graduated after about 11 years. When I graduated, though, what I wanted to do is I wanted to write or play music, which I was doing. But anyway, I wanted to write. And I signed up for a writing program at a very prominent university. And I got turned down because I was, A, older than everybody else, and B, I have my educational transcripts look like a train wreck. And so they turned me down and it crushed me. And that night I went home and really did some soul searching.
- [37:27]
And it wasn't.
- [37:27]
But maybe a few days later, possibly a week, that I began the Sean of the south blog, which changed the entire trajectory of my life. I just began writing, and that altered the course of everything that came thereafter. It was fascinating to see that I didn't need the fancy, schmancy, flooy doocy writing degree. I just. I just needed to write. And it's been. It's been wonderful. I've met so many wonderful people, people who've been through the same kinds of things, people who love to laugh. And it's allowed me not to take myself very seriously. I don't know that I would have had luxury if I'd have been part of a, you know, really upscale writing department. I would probably succumb to all the. The pomp and circumstance they, you know, have.
- [38:19]
But.
- [38:20]
Yep. So anyway, I began writing every day. And that. Here we are.
- [38:24]
Sean Diedrich
Wow. I mean, it's so inspiring. I thought, how can I read something that's. It was relatively short, you know, it's 500 words.
- [38:32]
Unknown Speaker
500 words to 650 words. I rarely write any longer than that because I have a fourth grade attention span.
- [38:41]
Sean Diedrich
But I read. Okay, so I read that one. And then I read Dearest Brother, which just came out.
- [38:46]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [38:46]
Sean Diedrich
And I mean, I. I had chills. It's so honest. Sean, can you tell us a little bit about that story like you were in Walmart?
- [38:56]
Unknown Speaker
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- [40:04]
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- [41:05]
Yeah, I was in Walmart and I saw a guy walloping on his kid and he was really really kind of violent with him and it broke me because I grew up with a very heavy handed family, very heavy handed father and he, my father grew up with a very heavy handed father and so it was just in the drinking water and there was nothing really wrong about it in their minds. And anyway I didn't ever know that I had grown up in abuse until I was in my 30s and therapist told me because I believe, I believe in therapy and I've gone to a lot of it. A therapist told me well you, you come from an abusive family and I remember that being news to me. I remember thinking what? I come from an abusive family and then it all kind of lined up, everything lined up. My you know I remember the long, violent nights in my household and the things that I've been through are not common. I didn't realize that. So watching this guy in Walmart do that just. It was a trigger for sure. And it opened up a lot of wounds. But it also showed me a lot about myself because as I'm watching this guy do this to his child, I'm feeling paralyzed inside because I grew up this way. And this way of growing up will either do two things to you. I believe it'll either make the abused into an aggressor and they, they get in fights all the time and they want to set things straight. They turn into the abuser. Or you become so passive that that's also not good. You know, there's really no balance. You're so passive that you can't speak up, you can't talk, you can't. Can't vocalize anything. You just cower in the corner. And I realized that's what I've been for my whole life. Just kind of, kind of a coward. And so I felt that weight of that, that day. I felt extremely like a wussy. And that hurt more for me than watching the guy go after his son, knowing that I, that I still, even after all these years, am just kind of a passive. So anyway, I wrote about it. You know, that's the weapon. I guess the only weapon of someone who likes to write is, you know, you can put it into words after the fact. So at least one part there.
- [43:26]
Sean Diedrich
I want to read this. It's one of the most powerful things I've ever read. What an interesting thing. That. It's just, you know, this was your daily writing. This is like starting down in the middle. It's called Dearest Brother. So people can find this on your website. I mean, what a thing. Like, we can all go back. There's just archives and archives@shondietrich.com and I'll put the website in the show notes. But you wrote what you just said. We either a, become aggressive, therefore becoming an abuser ourselves, or we B, grow up to become total wussies such as yours truly. As a young man, I was a flat out chicken. You write, I can't hit another person, not after the way I was raised. And then you put the reason I'm writing two Brother is because I don't like myself right now. I hate what I did today. I hate what I did more than I hate what you did. I hate that I walked away. I hate that I was silent. I wish I would have sounded the alarm. I wish I would have told someone what I saw. I wish I would have opened my mouth and spoken out instead of keeping quiet. But then, you see, I've been wishing that for 40 odd years. So I hope by some stroke of fate you read this letter. I hope you change your methods. I hope you deal with your anger issues. But most of all, I hope you realize that your son is not yours. This sacred child is only in your custody on a temporary loan. Which is why I hope you never forget, brother, that this child belongs to someone with much bigger hands than yours.
- [44:40]
Unknown Speaker
You got me kind of crying now.
- [44:43]
Sean Diedrich
I mean, I like, oh, my God. Like, wrecked over that. And I wasn't expecting. I was expecting to go to the website and be like, john has a show on June 6th. And I did find that stuff too, right? Like what? You know, just a little. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm like wrecked by these stories. Wrecked. Entertained. Like you talked about, like. Like you're totally sheltered and you go to the. You get to go to the baseball game and the girl shorts are so tight that you can see like the. The brand of. I mean, wow, what a writer, Sean. And you didn't finish. You quit, Dropped out of school. You said your sister dropped out of school as a kindergartner. Didn't learn to read till she was in her 20s. Grabbed out of school back, you got your equivalency. They don't take you into the writing program. This is some of the best writing I've ever read in my entire life.
- [45:31]
Unknown Speaker
Oh, well, my goodness, we need to raise your standards.
- [45:36]
Sean Diedrich
It's moving. So I can't wait to read the other books. There's so many of them. You've written fiction and nonfiction and short stories, and you're currently writing something right now, historical fiction, a lot of different types of things.
- [45:48]
Jenny Urich
This next story is about dreams, planes, and the kind of memories that lift off and never really land.
- [45:56]
Sean Diedrich
What about dealing with regret? One of the things that a story that stuck out to me was your dad.
- [46:01]
Unknown Speaker
Or.
- [46:02]
Sean Diedrich
Regret's not the right word. Like your dad wanted to be in the Blue Angels, or he wanted. He didn't. Or he wanted to be a pilot. He wanted to be a pilot. And he couldn't be. He couldn't be because he had ear infections and had lost some of his hearing. Sometimes we're just dealt a bad hand and we can't do with our life what we had hoped or what we wanted. How do we deal with those?
- [46:22]
Unknown Speaker
I was Just talking about this yesterday with somebody because he wanted to be a pilot. He wanted to be a Navy pilot, specifically. That's why the Blue Angels really spoke to him, because he wanted to be a Navy pilot. He is. Our entire garage was peppered plastered in jet posters and Navy planes. And he knew everything there was to know about any fighter jet, and yet he could not do it. And so that was a real turning point in his life. When he realized he couldn't do it, my mother said he just. When they rejected him, he. He just lost some of the vigor he had before. He just gave up. He became an iron worker, which is what his daddy was, which is what his daddy's daddy was and all his brothers. And it just was kind of like life was making decisions for him. Now he wasn't making decisions about life. And I realized, and this is what I was talking about the other night with a friend of mine, that my dad's using my dad as an example because I'm the same now right now as I'm talking to you. I'm the same age as he was when he died. I never thought I'd get to this age, but here I am. So I'm constantly comparing my own life to my dad's now because, oh my gosh, I look in the mirror and I'm the same age as he was when he died. My dad's number one stressor, I would say the number one thing that pushed him to the edge, aside from mental illness, aside from all the other factors that he had, the troubled childhood, the one factor that really was the nail in the coffin that pushed him toward making that decision to end his life or that made him depressed was his job, his work. He was not gratified in what he was doing with his life, with his hands. And he was with people who treated him poorly. His boss treated him terribly. His. His co workers, they were. It was always another story every night, you know, someone was treating him badly, treated him poorly. And I, I look at this now and I think all these external things happening at work are what pushed him to that. Because these aren't small things, you know, in your life, what you're doing with your life, what your life's quote, unquote, work is, is so important to who you are. I mean, even in Ecclesiastes, I mean, it says the seat. Basically, Solomon says the secret to happiness is to find joy in what you're doing with your hands and do it with all your mind. That's the secret to joy. And he could not find that. And he had all these opportunities in his own life. He didn't have to be a pilot. He could have pursued something else that would have put him in that realm. Or he could have pursued something and taken a chance and gone towards something that made him happy. Because life is so unbearably short. And I believe if he would have done that, he would not have felt regret, but he would probably still be here today. I believe that his work circumstances were not just something small. This was perhaps the greatest contributor to his end. And so I say that because anybody listening to this who is not satisfied or is finding deep. Let me say it this way, because I don't know if satisfaction truly exists, but who is finding deep misery in, in some form or area of their life. The problem isn't small. This is killing you somehow. And it is up to you to make the decision to get out of it and find you again, find what makes you you and enjoy your life. Because it's already almost over.
- [50:03]
Sean Diedrich
Wow, what a book. I mean, Sean. Oh my. Oh my goodness, what a book. I love this line. I burned up entire days on that swing. Talking about your tire swing. Burned up entire days. I mean, isn't that such a good depiction of how childhood should be that were just out there. I love the line about your mom. This woman didn't just raise you, she grew up with you. What a beautiful way to look at our parents that they weren't whole in already at the end of their journey when you came along. And when all of these things happen, they're growing alongside of you. I just thought that was such a deep part. I mean, there were so many things that I laughed about. I loved when you talked about with Jamie. This was married life. It was not fancy living, but it was heaven to me. I learned that love could paint over my world in the same way grief had, but in reverse. You wrote, I've never felt like a richer man. Home is not a place on the map, you know, home is here with this woman, the animal who sleeps beside you. Home is a feeling and an idea you have to fight to preserve because this world tries to take it from you. And then in the next breath you're talking about so sleep, Jamie. And you're talking about the time that you trick or treated as Jesus. And I mean, it's just, it's just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I laughed. I mean, I. It was, it was like stand up comedy. You're not expecting it and you just. I, I liked the Humboldt beginnings. There was a chapter called Humboldt. I was like, that is the most clever thing I've ever heard. Women. And when you were trying to get writing jobs, and they're like, have you ever used a computer? It's great.
- [51:42]
Unknown Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
- [51:43]
Sean Diedrich
It's just such a fantastic book.
- [51:46]
Jenny Urich
We'll close with something timeless, a hymn, a riddle, and a reflection on what we carry with us when the final song plays, and maybe even a little bit of whistling.
- [51:57]
Sean Diedrich
People have had a hard year, and maybe they've had a hard childhood. Maybe they're in the midst of a hard childhood. Ugly childhoods make pretty people. What's the song? Will the Circle Be Unbroken? I hadn't heard of it, and I watched a video. I went to go look for a video of it, and I saw the video that Zondervan made. It was like a minute and a half of, like. It was for the book. It was a really cool.
- [52:22]
Unknown Speaker
Oh, the book trailer. Yeah.
- [52:24]
Sean Diedrich
Yes, the book trailer. I didn't even know those existed.
- [52:27]
Unknown Speaker
I didn't either.
- [52:29]
Sean Diedrich
That is really. It's like a minute and a half. I was like, this is incredible. I even took notes on that, but I can't find it at the moment.
- [52:35]
Unknown Speaker
So that. So that song is an old hymn, mid to late 1800s, and it's traditionally, at least in the south or in the rural parts. It's a hymn that is sung mostly at funerals. It's a funeral hymn, and it's a riddle, really, because there's several different ways to interpret it. And the song meaning is not necessarily clear until you dive in and sing the actual verses. Will the circle being broken? What does it mean? What is it? You know, is it. What is that? Well, what it means is the family circle is what they used to call it a family circle. I think there was even a magazine called the Family Circle that. That is what the country people called their family. So will the family circle remain unbroken? Will the circle be unbroken? What they're saying is, when somebody leaves this world, your family circle is interrupted. And there is no. There is no family circle anymore, because once you break the circle, it's not no longer a circle. And the song, what I love the most about it is it is a question. It doesn't. It has one of the only hymns that ends with a question mark. It's expressing, I don't know. I don't know if the family circle. I don't know if the family circle will be unbroken. But the verse of the song is, will the circle be unbroken by and by the Lord, by and by. And it clinches it with the B part of that phrase. There's a better home awaiting in the sky, Lord, in the sky. And to me, that sums up my entire life, not just the book. This circle of life is a lot. It's a lot to go through. Every day you suffer every day you go through something and you just kind of hope to get to the next day, but there's something better awaiting and you just can't even imagine. Like you said earlier, you can't imagine that is. But it's coming.
- [54:36]
Sean Diedrich
That Zander VIN video. One of the things you said was life is not as heavy as we make it out to be said by someone who went through a a severing a before and an after, a very ugly childhood. But you have managed to change the world, Sean, with your stories. You know, here I am, I'm some random mother in Michigan, and I know because people travel from all over to come here. You speak, and you are such a powerful voice in our world. Would you whistle for us?
- [55:05]
Unknown Speaker
Whistle?
- [55:06]
Sure.
- [55:06]
What song you want to hear?
- [55:08]
Sean Diedrich
Oh, I'd love to hear do Lord.
- [55:10]
Unknown Speaker
Okay.
- [55:31]
Sean Diedrich
You learned when you were a little, little kid.
- [55:33]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I do.
- [55:34]
It's. It's something that my mother would have.
- [55:36]
Never believe that I'm doing professionally.
- [55:40]
Sean Diedrich
I can hardly whistle at all. Oh, I loved that. I love that. And you have music all the time on your. On your Instagram, on your website. So, gosh, music sure does touch your soul. And what a cool thing that you have paired the storytelling and the music. And that's what you do at your live events, too. People can come and listen to that. So, so many opportunities to. To just be inspired and really touched.
- [56:06]
Jenny Urich
Thank you for spending time with us and Shawn Diedrich. If this episode moved you, please consider sharing it with a friend. You can find more of Shawn's writing@shondrich.com and check out his books, daily essays, and upcoming shows. He is a gift to this world, and we are so honored to share his voice with you here. Until next time, keep spending those hours outside.
- [56:29]
Unknown Speaker
Do you want to learn the Bible in a way that's encouraging, surprising, and even entertaining? Check out the Bible Stories podcast. Each week, Bible Stories brings you classics, you know, and hidden gems that you might have missed. Have you ever heard about the time that King David fought a giant and he lost? Or when Paul preached so long a guy fell asleep, he tumbled out a window and had to be brought back to life? Did you know that God himself buried Moses and that Michael the Archangel and the devil fought over Moses body. Yeah, it gets wild. So tune in for storytelling that's biblical, insightful and a lot of fun. Subscribe today to Bible Stories with Matt Mullins and Todd Haymans, available wherever you get your podcasts.