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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 507: When It Feels Like Nothing’s Working | Dr. Heather Thompson Day, What If I'm Wrong?
00:57:49
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Jenny Urch
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And I am so excited for this author and wonderful person I have on today. Do you, I mean, do people call you Dr. Heather Thompson Day? I mean, that's what I want to call you.
- [00:43]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah, not anymore. Because I'm not in a classroom as of 2025 was my first year. Not in a classroom. So now Heather. Heather's good.
- [00:50]
Jenny Urch
Heather's good. But, but. Dr. Heather Thompson Day, you are a best selling author. You've written so many books. And the one I wrote, one I read most recently is called what if I'm Wrong? Oh my goodness. Which is like a question that everybody asks themselves, navigating the waves of fear and failure. Can you give us a little bit of background on your story? You've wanted to be an author since you were a kid and now you are. You've written a ton of books.
- [01:13]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah. Yeah. So the, the background for this book, what if I'm Wrong? Is kind of struggling with the questions of how God operates. And I realized that I had a very transactional view of how God operates. So I watched my dad give his entire life to ministry, to spirituality and to faith and to God. Literally every dime he ever earned, he put back into his ministry. And then when I was 25 years old, he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. And anybody who has aging parents or parents that need full time care, it becomes a big, you know, weight on your family. And then to even think about cost of care for somebody who means everything to you, it's a very difficult space of life to navigate. And so I was going through this three year period where I was really struggling with God's fairness, to be quite honest. A God who allows the sun to shine on both the righteous and the wicked, where, you know, it seems like every day you see the wicked Triumph. And then I see this, the most righteous person I've ever known, lose everything about who he is, right? And at the same time, nursing home care can be up to $10,000 a month. How are we even going to afford to care for you? So I'm struggling with all these things, and I text my mom one day, and I said, just feel like dad gave his whole life to this thing. To his passion, which is what I call it in the book. To his passion, and he has nothing to show for it. And my mom text me back 59 minutes later, though her read receipt said she had read it immediately. It took her 59 minutes to decide what she would say to me. And she said, you say dad has nothing to show for it, but he has you to show for it. So I think you're wrong. And that kind of started me on a journey of looking through my life and just kind of saying, what am I getting wrong? How am I seeing things? How am I not seeing things in this upside down kingdom of heaven that we're supposed to see things through? What am I getting wrong about how I'm viewing my life or what I'm thinking success means? Or what I'm thinking favor means? What is passion? What am I getting wrong? And so, yeah, it kind of started me on this journey where I'd ask myself that question a lot. And where I've landed is just a totally different way of viewing my life and my work than I've ever had before.
- [03:38]
Jenny Urch
I mean, it's something that so many people grapple with, you know, I wonder if I'll have anything to show for it. And it reminds me of that verse. There's a verse that says, catch your bread upon the water, and after many days it will return to you. And I've always really liked that verse because I think anybody who spends time outside knows that if you cast your bread upon the water, that piece of bread is not going to return to you at all. You know, whatever. It gets wet and soggy and it sinks or it gets eaten by an animal or whatever, but it comes back to you in some sort of a different form from some sort of a different direction. And that's really what I saw threads through your book, which is that you're like, okay, my dad gave up his life for this. He. I mean, he was a talented singer. He was on Broadway. Like, he could have done all of these different things, but he chose to follow his passion. He cast his bread upon the water, and the result may not look like what you expect it to be. But still, it gives you so much encouragement that something's coming. You just don't know. You don't know. So I. I just loved it. It was through your dad's story. It was through your own story, down to your daughter. These seeds and these threads that interweave. Yeah. And show that there is something powerful going on even amidst the hard. Is your dad still alive?
- [04:50]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes, he is still alive. I mean, not doing great, but he's still alive. Which typically Alzheimer's, you have like seven to 10 years. But once you get diagnosed and he's been. It's been like almost 15 years, so it's very strange. And he's still communicating, you know, but, yeah, he's definitely not the same person at all. You learn to love a totally new person. Yeah.
- [05:13]
Jenny Urch
That's what you wrote about. You also talked about the singing, which I had experienced. We have a dear family friend that got a butterfly tumor in her brain and it really just. It just took her health in a nosedive. And I remember being over in their home and just playing the piano and she would sing. I mean, she couldn't communicate at all, but she could sing these hymns word for word that she knew, and she would belt them out and it was so powerful. It's like it must be a different part of the brain.
- [05:38]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
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Jenny Urch
Can you talk to. You know, we haven't talked about this actually at all. Heather on the show is Alzheimer's and dementia, and it's something that so many people struggle with. Whether they're struggling with it themselves or they have family members. Can you give a little, as much as you're comfortable, a little bit more insight into what that journey has been like and what you've learned along the way?
- [06:01]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
I mean, I think in a. It's interesting. I haven't even made these connections until recently, and now that I've been going out and even talking about it, I. If you read my book, you know, I become obsessed with writing things down. And I wonder how much of that is the Alzheimer's. Right. I have this obsession with. With tracking prayers, writing things down, keeping dates, locking memories. And I wonder if a lot of it is like my way of protecting all the things it seems my dad has lost. So essentially what happens is you learn to have a relationship with an entirely new person. Their personality changes, they become very childlike. At this point in my dad's progression, he's probably like an 8 year old, which is very unique. I mean, I can't even imagine for my mom, but it's very unique for me as a child, you know, to treat my dad as a child. It's just, it's interesting. However, here's what, like one of the things I say in the book, I think this is really interesting. There was this moment where I started to realize he didn't know my name anymore. And I kind of cornered him. This would have been last 4th of July. And I said, who am I? And he's like, you know, I know he's, he's a very good actor. So even in his dementia, he's always acting. That's just natural for him. And I said, no, it's okay if you don't know who. What's my name? And he said, I don't know. And then he didn't say anything. And I think he was looking for the word names. I think that's what he was trying to say. He looked at me and he said, I don't know, but I know you. And the look in his eyes that he gave me was the look that he had given me thousands of times before when he was proud of me or that. That look that a parent gives of reckless recognition to their child. And I knew, oh, my goodness, even when he doesn't know my name, he does know me. So, yeah, it's navigating this new relational thing. And you know, here's some of the beauty of Alzheimer's. You realize how powerful love really is, that when everything else is gone, love really does remain. There's this moment at the very end of the book. I say that he has this moment with my mom where she's asking, you know, who am I? And he says to her, all I know is that I love you. You know, my parents have been married almost 40 years. You know, it's just, it's an interesting thing to see, to watch as a human being and see how powerful our bonds really are. So there's beauty to it too. In the midst of suffering.
- [08:37]
Jenny Urch
One of the things that you talked about that I thought was really intriguing was, you know, you talked about like, I got in trouble as a child, like, who didn't? You know, yeah, like I got kicked out of my school. This is just, I mean, that's what happens, right? Things happen. And you were like, you know, you thought you embarrassed your parents. And your dad was like, look, they can't handle a female leader. Like, whatever, those small minded people, you know, he's not, he's not embarrassed, but you feel like maybe they are embarrassed. And you're like, you know, look, you have Gifts. And he. He's taking you to these writing things, and you're just wanting to be a kid in the summer, you know, and he's like, making you go be with his tutor and, you know, because he sees that you have this gift and you. And I thought this was really a sobering thought. You wrote. I sometimes think my dad would like me more as an adult. I've grown so much since he knew me last. I bet we would have a lot in common.
- [09:26]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
That makes me want to cry.
- [09:28]
Jenny Urch
I don't know. I guess I've never really thought about that. Like, that they don't know who you are now.
- [09:33]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [09:33]
Jenny Urch
And at some point, they stopped knowing you as you grow. And so they don't necessarily get to see that. He cast his bread upon the water.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
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Jenny Urch
Really invested in your writing and doesn't really know. Well, now the granddaughter is gonna have a book.
- [09:49]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [09:49]
Jenny Urch
You can believe. I think you can believe that something is going to come back with those things that you invest. And he even invested in modeling. Right. You talked about how he was fine to risk. He was fine to take risks. And those are things that last through generations, those types of modeling and choices. Can you talk about the song Midnight Cry? Yeah.
- [10:11]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
So that's a song. Even to this day, if my dad's really agitated, we'll put it on and it will, I mean, stop him in his tracks. Midnight Cry was a song that he sang all the time. I mean, in his ministry and still is what calms him. If you guys have heard the song, I hear the sound of a mighty rushing wind and it's closer now than it's ever been is how it starts. And. Yeah. Well, it's somewhere deep in his memory. And it's such a beautiful song because it's about the second Coming. Right. So it's just an interesting thing now to experience with him. I want to say this too, as we're talking about passing things down from generation to generation, just so we're on the same page as our listeners. The word passion. And that's what we're talking about. This. This thing that is greater than you purpose. All these things. The word passion. I taught communication many years, so words mean things. In my world, the word passion actually means to suffer. And so oftentimes we'll say like, well, why are you doing this thing? Oh, well, I'm doing it because I'm passionate about it. But the second the suffering starts, we stop. Passion is not what we do because of affirmation, accolades, open doors and resources. Passion is what we can't help but do despite not having any of those things. And so the greatest gift that my dad gave me was understanding what passion is and what it can do and how it makes you fully alive in your life. And so the question I want everybody, as they go through the book, but just in your own life, to think through is what are you willing to suffer for what is so much bigger than you that you can't help it? Like, it's. It's got a grip on you and everybody. I hope most people have that thing where it just calls to you regardless of all the times it's even hurt you. Right. Because of the hope that gets deferred, and you just can't help coming back. And so in that understanding of passion and learning to cast your bread above upon the water, it's. I have had to start analyzing and thinking through how is what I'm planting today in my life. What if this isn't gonna be seen in my generation? Like, what if this isn't even about me?
- [12:28]
Unnamed Speaker
Right.
- [12:29]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
And how did my great grandmother's choices affect her kids? Choices that affected my dad's. Choices that now, you know, like, we are a part of this much larger picture that is so much bigger than your own life. And understanding that, I think, is how we get through not just the mundane pieces of our life, but the disappointing pieces of our life. Because you remember, this is like so much bigger of a story, and I get to be a part of this human project and human story that's just so much bigger than me. And so how do I just leave this world a little better than I found it? That's the goal, and that's the. The passion for each of us.
- [13:09]
Jenny Urch
I mean, and this is the message that you get out of this book. Because when you say the statement and you're talking about this in the book, what if I'm wrong? What if I have nothing to show for it? You're talking about your dad and you say he gave his whole life and he has nothing to show for it because he was. He was an actor on Broadway. He's starring in Jesus Christ Superstar and Hair. And then he leaves and he comes to Michigan. We're in Michigan. Oh, get out. Yeah. Yeah. We live near Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor.
- [13:33]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Okay. Wonderful. I was from St. Joe.
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Jenny Urch
Yeah. I mean, I'm so jealous, because St. Joe is a way better place to be from.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
It's beautiful now.
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Jenny Urch
They have that incredible fountain. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, right downtown?
- [13:43]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Do I know? Do I Know what you're talking about.
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Jenny Urch
I played in the fountain last summer as an adult, I'm like, I am running through that fountain. I'm like, the only adult out there. And it was incredible. So good for you. We're, like, in the middle, boring part of the state. We're coming out to you for vacation. But. So your dad is this actor on Broadway, and you moved to Michigan, and he is doing shows from his basement radio program. Kids are Christians, Too. You know, he's. You say he's making musicals, he's doing songs. And there's, like, a little light coming in from the. Whatever, the little window, so there's a fire. You can.
- [14:14]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Michigan basement. Michigan basement, right.
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Jenny Urch
And it looks like from the outside, it could look like, gosh, he gave up so much. But what also matters is that he lived the life he wanted to live.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [14:26]
Jenny Urch
That's what he wanted to do, and he did it.
- [14:27]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes. Yes. Right. And so this is what I want people to start thinking is, what if I just think we. We fear. At least me. Maybe it's just my personality. So afraid of failure. I lived most of my life avoiding failure at all costs. But how do you learn how to do anything, Jenny? Like, how do you learn how to ride a bike? How do you learn how to walk? By learning how not to. And so, honestly, most of everything that you now know is because of all the ways you did it wrong. That's literally how your brain works, is you get on a bike, right, and you fall over, and your brain creates a little neural pathway that says, no, not like that. And so you get on again and you fall over the other way, and your brain says, nope, not like that. And if you do it enough, eventually you're left with the neural pathways that tell your brain, this is how you pedal one foot in front of the other. Let's go. This is life. And so if we are afraid to fail, essentially all of us then are left on the sidewalk of life. And I want people to just. Nobody looks at their kid. I just think of my kid when they're trying to ride a bike. I would never look at my kid fall and be like, you idiot. What are you thinking? That's so. Isn't that embarrassing? Can you believe you did that? God is not looking at any of us failing and saying, oh, my goodness, how embarrassing.
- [15:41]
Jenny Urch
He's like, whoa.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Do you see them try? Did you see what they did? They're getting back up. They're doing it again. And then eventually, here's what's going to happen. I know this because I'm a parent. God is going to walk over and he's going to stand beside you. He's going to put his hands over yours. He's going to say like this, here's how you do it. All right, you ready? Here we go. That's the goal, is to fail enough that eventually we're up and we're running and we're doing things we never thought were possible.
- [16:05]
Jenny Urch
I mean, I love this question of what if I'm wrong? Or what if I don't have anything to show for it? And you talked about Joseph in the Bible, which of course. Oh, my goodness, I'm sure he thought that all the time he's in prison, he's getting accused of, you know, being inappropriate with a wife. And, you know, he has these dreams, and it's years and years and years later. So this question of what if I'm wrong? And I guess from your book, it's like you get this thought of, like, maybe I'm just looking in the wrong direction. And of course you have something to show for it. When you lived your life based off of what you felt called to do, you made those choices and you leave that generational legacy of being that type of person, and that gets passed down.
- [16:43]
Unnamed Speaker
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- [18:59]
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- [19:49]
Jenny Urch
A lot of people have been talking about that. Prayers are seeds, tears are seeds, prayers are seeds. These seeds that we plant. And I talked to this musician, Torn Wells, and he was talking about how there's nothing very remarkable about a seed. And I thought, gosh, that's probably one of the deepest thoughts ever. Like, yeah, the seed doesn't look like anything at all. I mean, they can be so small and yet it's going to grow a watermelon or it's going to grow a stalk of. Of corn. The seed itself is not very remarkable. And you talked about these prayers that you prayed for yourself. I want to be an author. I want to be a child author. It's what I want more than everything.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
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Jenny Urch
The birthday comes around, you're crying because it hasn't happened. It hasn't happened. And then it happens, but not in a way that you thought it was going to happen. Can you tell that story?
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah. So let me say this, too. What happens to seeds? It gets buried.
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Jenny Urch
Yeah. Yeah, sure. It goes in the dark.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yep. It goes in the dark and it's buried. And it sits. And it sits, and it sits. Right. And while everybody else is understanding what's going on above, the seed itself doesn't know what's happening. Right. And that's exactly what happened with, I think, wanting to write a book. So that was my dream. I wanted to be a writer. That's the thread of my life, wanting to be a writer. And so when I was a kid, I used to submit queries to different publishing houses. I mean, I. I was probably 15, definitely sending those things out. 11.
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Jenny Urch
I remember what incredible parents, Heather, that they supported that. Oh, they didn't. They would have had to help you.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
They weren't a part of that.
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Jenny Urch
That was me all. They're like, you don't even have to help you get the stamps. I mean, you're like, I'm just figuring it out, though.
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Dr. Heather Thompson Day
There was Google. So as soon as Google came, I'm online and I'm. I'm absolutely right.
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Jenny Urch
Oh, this is because I'm old. I'm like, I'm old. I'm, like, picturing you, like, putting in some envelope, but, like, taking it to the post office. All right, I get it. I get it. All right. I was off base there.
- [21:41]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
I crafted an email using aol. Right. And sending these things out anyway, never happened for me. And I remember for many years just me thinking, wow, I really thought you were going to. And even when I got my first book published, it's a little late, but, okay, we'll take it. And then. So I was 11 years old, specifically. I remember because I write so many things down, being 11 years old, crying on my trampoline because this is so silly now, right? But, like, just, oh, my dreams aren't going to happen. And then my daughter gets a book publishing contract at 11 years old. And we wrote this children's book together called Can I Sit Here? And so it's just so interesting. And I really. When I thought about her age and then I'm thinking about. Because I'm in also this process of looking at things from generation to generation to generation and seed planting, whether it's the Holy Spirit or just myself, I realized, oh, my goodness, God remembered. God answered prayers in my daughter's life that my daughter never even prayed. My daughter has never. I don't think, at least maybe now she does. But before, I don't think she was praying to be an author. She got to receive and be the beneficiary of prayers her mother had prayed. And that thought, I mean, that just. And there's so many ways my brain goes on that then because there's so many things, I think, as human beings, that perhaps you are the beneficiary of prayers. You never even prayed. And then is it possible that your children or your great grandchildren can be beneficiaries to prayers that they didn't pray? And so then how are we planting seed over and over and every single day in our lives that other people get to harvest? It's an incredible experience. That's the beauty of a timeless God.
- [23:24]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. That generational weaving.
- [23:26]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
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Jenny Urch
And you see it. You see it with your dad, even in this hard, hard, hard situation with the Alzheimer's that he was weaving, he was a part of the story, which is, you know, he said, you can fail at what you don't want. You might as well take your chance. On what? On doing what you love. You can fail at what you know. You lose a job or whatever the situation is.
- [23:46]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
You can feel anything, can't control anything. Right.
- [23:49]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. You can fill out the things you don't want in life, so why not try the things you love to do? And maybe you're gonna. But at least that's what you were wanting to do. So you talked about this. I mean, this is really beautiful, this generational weaving. I truly believe my daughter, throughout her life, is going to reap blessings she didn't even know to pray for. There are surely prayers over your life that have long preceded you. I am walking in the prayers my father prayed before me. And surely you are walking. The prayers of Noah, Daniel, Paul, the cries of Moses and Samuel, the songs of Ruth and Naomi. You just go on and on. This generational weaving, and I thought this was such a powerful sentence. It really makes you think about what you're doing with your life. You wrote this. For many of us, we aren't just born into a family. We are born into an already developing story arc. Talk to us about that.
- [24:40]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah, I think we all carry different stories or they can come to us as responsibilities or perceptions of what it's supposed to look like, how you're supposed to. To make an impact in this world. And some of us, for some of us, these are good stories and for some of us, these are bad stories. Right. That no fault of your own. Now I'm born into this very complicated family story that feels like it's also mine. And then what are the choices that we make as we navigate that? I think just being self aware enough, here's what I would recommend. Being self aware enough to zoom out, spend 30 minutes even, and say, what are the stories that I've been grafted into? What do I know about my family history? Even if it's just. If you don't know anything further than your mom and dad, what do I know about that story that now I'm carrying with me into my own? And I think sometimes, like, I know one of the examples I gave is one of my bosses was Korean American, but his parents had immigrated from Korea. And I just remember talking to him one day and he had had like three different professions. And then eventually he became a filmmaker. And not just like, not just a filmmaker. I mean, nominated for Academy Awards, like a phenomenal filmmaker. Phenomenal. And I was like, why in the world were you first a physical therapist and something else and a pastor? Why wouldn't you have gone straight into film? And he, I just remember he looked at me and he said, that's like, I'm a child of immigrants. You don't get to just go into film like you, you. You have to continue the. Your parents gave up so much. You have to figure out, how do I pay them back? That's the story. Whether it's said, verbalized, or not. Your brain is thinking, how do I pay them back for the sacrifice that they've made? And the best way he knew to do that was to go into medical, even though his brain was actually very artistically motivated. And that just. So that was what I was thinking of. How, man, there's so many stories that we take with us that we now become a part of. And if you're not aware, if you're not self aware enough to zoom out and say, okay, what am I carrying? That is either mine or not mine. We're not even aware of always the motivation for the choices that we're making. And I think we should be aware of the motivations for the choices that we're making and why we're choosing to live the way we're living.
- [27:05]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. It's interesting on so many levels because it helps you to understand where you're at in life right now. What was a story arc that I was born into. But then it's also motivating and thought provoking. If you're in a season of life where you are a parent. I'm actually anyone. If you're a teacher, if you're a grandparent.
- [27:21]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [27:21]
Jenny Urch
Which is like, how are people intersecting with the story that I'm a part of? And what kind of arc am I helping to create? Because I do think. You just think, well, this kid's in my family. But then when you look at a book like yours, you do see that generational lineage.
- [27:35]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
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Jenny Urch
Like, oh, gosh, this is really powerful. Like, when you talk about your daughter. And I would love to talk about this book because it's coming out soon.
- [27:41]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [27:41]
Jenny Urch
It's called Can I Sit Here? She tells her story of being excluded. We wrote it together. You see that she entered in this story where her mom was already doing things. Her mom. And so that aids her story. And it motivates you, as someone who works with kids or has kids or has grandkids to try and make that story the best possible story that it could be.
- [28:04]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah. Even the fact that my daughter thought, let's write a book, not realizing the barriers there, which all I saw when I was a kid were barriers. It's just fascinating, right, how we get a little. A little. A little further and further. I say in there, too. Like Taylor Swift, her grandmother was an opera singer. It's just really interesting how we become a part of these things. And how much does that play into the way, Taylor? I don't know. I don't know, Taylor. But how does that play into the way she sees her life as she's growing up? You know what I mean? There's so many. I just want people to start thinking through, oh, where did I get this? And am I a part of a larger story? You are.
- [28:41]
Jenny Urch
And what. What might it be down the road? I mean, I had no idea that Taylor Swift grandmother was an opera singer. You talked about Jim Carrey. That I wanted to be a comedian but ended up being an accountant because it was safer. So tell us about this book that's coming out. It's coming out in August, right before school starts, which is a great time. Can I sit here?
- [29:00]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah. So. Oh, it's just so sad. So my daughter, this would have been her third grade year. We had moved to Denver and she Just really struggled making friends, which was different for her. She had had no problem in, in the Michigan schools that we had grown up in. And I thought she was young enough that moving would be safe because there's so little. Everybody's gonna be so nice. Cause you're only in third grade.
- [29:22]
Jenny Urch
You know what, my sister in law was just talking to me about this. She was saying with her friends, they were saying third grade is the year when it changes.
- [29:28]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Okay, well, it was for us. And I'm telling you, her personality has still been impacted by these experiences in third grade. So this, this is the truth.
- [29:37]
Jenny Urch
She.
- [29:37]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
I just can't even believe this happened in third grade. She goes to, she's trying to make friends every day. It's. She's struggling. She goes to sit down at the lunch table and all the girls look at each other and get up and leave. And so she's left sitting there.
- [29:48]
Jenny Urch
Oh my goodness. Yeah. What you think about third grade that's happening with 14 year olds, not 8 year olds.
- [29:55]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes. And so that's why. So she. We wrote a book called Can I Sit Here? And it's about even if everybody get. How do you choose to be a friend even if you don't have any? How do we control the things that we can control? How do you invite somebody into a seat if nobody's invited you into theirs? And kind of living your life in that way, it goes back to. Honestly, it's connected to what I've discovered in my own life is we can spend so much time waiting for God to bless us that we'll forget that blessing is available to you right here and right now because you can choose to be a blessing. You never have to wait to experience the blessing of God. You can right now say, okay, who can I go make a moment for? And once you do that, you enter into this blessing experience which is only given to us by God. And now you are in the blessings of God. You can choose to bring goodness into someone else's life. If you feel like goodness isn't in yours. And if you keep. I have just found in my personal experience, when we keep making these choices of choosing to show up in the ways that we feel people haven't shown up for us, it starts to feel like it just changes the economics of your own mind. And you realize blessing is available to me right now. I don't have to keep sitting and waiting and looking. It's here and I can create it and I can activate it. Same thing with can I sit here? We can teach this to children. Yeah.
- [31:16]
Jenny Urch
I mean, in actually writing the book itself, the physical act of writing that book is modeling that whole situation, which is like, you know what? I'm in a rough spot, but there are things I can do right now. I can encourage other people. I can put my ideas out there. God is a redeemer. He redeemed a situation that's so sad and so awful by creating this thing that's going to help so many children. There's a book by a man named Kim Jong Payne. It's called Emotionally Resilient Teens and Tweens, and it's about bullying. And I read it and, you know, you think, well, bullying, it's like kids making fun of you and whatever. They're cyberbullying. And he went through all the different types of bullying. And exclusion is 1000% a type of bullying. When you're just. Even if you're just forgotten about or you're excluded in a way where people completely shun you, it feels awful. And I. I just liked having that perspective of knowing what the different types of bullying are, and what an amazing tool coming out right before school for all of these kids to read. People can probably pre order it already, right?
- [32:18]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes, yes. Can I sit here? Right there. And it's available everywhere.
- [32:22]
Jenny Urch
Written by you and your daughter and London Day.
- [32:24]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
London Day. Just the sweetest. I really think, you know, I really think sometimes the areas of your life where you recognize you've been hurt, I really think are invitations to see, oh, this is a pain point. And so how do I help somebody else from not falling into the same pain point? Or how do I help somebody else who already has fallen into this pain point that I so personally know hurts. And so there's an invitation for all of us in that God works all.
- [32:54]
Jenny Urch
Things together for the good.
- [32:55]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [32:56]
Jenny Urch
He takes all these really hard things because that is a very, very hard thing. What a kid. London Day. That's a very co. Name. Just. I mean, it's a cool name. It sounds like an author.
- [33:05]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Wait, can I tell you where I got it? So my dad's stage name, My dad, when he was in Broadway, his name was Bobby London. And so when I got pregnant, and especially we knew he had Alzheimer's, and so I remember having this conversation with my husband. I almost named her London Bobby. And then I was like, well, maybe that's too far. Maybe that's not. But anyway, we ended up with London Marie, which is my middle name, London Marie Day. But it's in honor to.
- [33:28]
Jenny Urch
My dad had this Awful experience as a third grader and now she's gonna have a book.
- [33:33]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Isn't that sweet?
- [33:34]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. And at 11 years old she gets her contract, which is when you were pregnant. I mean, it is all of those things. I got chills. We are born into an already developing story arc, so make sure yours is a good one.
- [33:45]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [33:46]
Jenny Urch
And that's what I really got out of that. The number one selling product of its.
- [33:51]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
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- [33:53]
Jenny Urch
And innovation, Botox Cosmetic. Adobotulinum toxin A is a prescription medicine used to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better in adults.
- [34:04]
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- [34:46]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
See for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com what is daddication?
- [34:50]
Jenny Urch
The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariona. We call him day date for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether.
- [34:57]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
It'S attention, affection, knowledge.
- [35:00]
Jenny Urch
And there's this huge responsibility in making.
- [35:02]
Unnamed Speaker
Sure that when he's no longer under.
- [35:04]
Jenny Urch
My wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we worked together. We did a good job.
- [35:10]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
That's dedication.
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- [35:16]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Services and the Ad Council.
- [35:19]
Jenny Urch
So good. I would love to know what were the things that you were sending off when you were 15?
- [35:23]
Unnamed Speaker
16.
- [35:23]
Jenny Urch
Like what kind of books?
- [35:25]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah, so I was writing a book called diary of a freshman. I tended to always write about what I was experiencing. Even you can see that in what I do today. Everything I write. My other book was called it's not your turn. Right. Like whatever I'm experiencing, that's what I write. And so at 14 I'm experiencing high school. And so I wrote a book called Diary of a Freshman. It's never been published, but I want.
- [35:44]
Jenny Urch
To read that book.
- [35:45]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
No, you don't.
- [35:47]
Jenny Urch
But isn't that like all these books, like Diary of a Wimpy Kid, I mean, they actually become really popular. The one you just said, it's not your turn. That one you did end up writing though.
- [35:56]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah, that was the first book that I got published with a bigger Christian market.
- [36:00]
Jenny Urch
Okay. Okay. And at this point now, how many books have you written?
- [36:04]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Nine. Nine.
- [36:06]
Jenny Urch
Is this the ninth?
- [36:08]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
That is. No, I think, can I sit here? Is the ninth. I think that's the eighth.
- [36:11]
Jenny Urch
Can I sit there? Is the ninth. And what if I'm wrong? Is it the eighth? I mean, that is so many books. You did it.
- [36:16]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
But you want to know what, Ginny? I really think, to be quite honest, it was like that was me trying to earn.
- [36:24]
Jenny Urch
Yeah.
- [36:24]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
In a lot of ways, like approval. I didn't see it at the time, but I see it much more clearly now. Like when somebody says to me now, oh, so what's the next book? It's like, I don't have to write another book anymore.
- [36:36]
Jenny Urch
Right.
- [36:37]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
You know, and before I did, it was like, I don't even think my goal was to write great books. It was to just know it was.
- [36:45]
Jenny Urch
To write a book.
- [36:45]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Does that make sense? Yeah, I wasn't self aware enough for. That's why I tell people, don't read anything I wrote except for like the last three books. I really do. Because it, it wasn't coming from a healthy place.
- [36:57]
Jenny Urch
Interesting. I mean, that's an interesting point. Dr. Judith Joseph talks about this. I'd never heard of it. It's called High Functioning Depression. She just had a book that came out about it.
- [37:05]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh my goodness, this sounds like something I need. Yeah.
- [37:08]
Jenny Urch
Well, it's basically like when you said, I think so many of us are dealing with work and achievements to avoid grief and feeling numb. She says that, you know, and no one would ever suspect that this is depression, but you kind of feel nothing. It's called anhedonia. There's a whole word for it.
- [37:21]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Wow.
- [37:22]
Jenny Urch
And so it was a fantastic, interesting book. And I think a lot of us do that. We throw ourselves in a project so we don't feel anything. We are numb. We're self medicating with perfectionism and doing things.
- [37:32]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [37:33]
Jenny Urch
Even so, though, Heather, Even so. Even when it's the motivations are a little off because we have this trauma in our background. Or even so because you Know, we, we, you know, maybe we're dealing with high functioning depression or any of these other things even. So you're still casting your bread on the water and there are still good things that are happening. So one of the ones you talked about, which I totally related with. Okay, so let me be honest. I've got a couple books now. I was not a child that was trying to write books. I have a math degree, so this is completely out of my wheelhouse.
- [38:04]
Unnamed Speaker
Completely out of my wheelhouse.
- [38:06]
Jenny Urch
So it's really something that I was not good at as a kid. I never did a second draft of anything. I, I didn't do a super well in English, but I'm passionate, so I'm, you know, these opportunities to put these books out in the world that encourage people to play a little bit more and. Yeah, to do less and gain more long term. So I'm putting these books out in the world and you just hope you're. You so hope that it hits a bestseller list.
- [38:29]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [38:30]
Jenny Urch
Here's why. For me, it's not for validation. It's kind of because I'm lazy. I'm like, listen, if a book hits a bestseller list, things are easier forever.
- [38:39]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [38:39]
Jenny Urch
They're easier for you, they're easier for your kids. It's easier to get the next book deal. It's easier to get speaking engagements.
- [38:45]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [38:45]
Jenny Urch
You just like, you're a New York Times bestseller. You don't need anything else to your name. And so I was just like praying and hoping, God, you know, please, girl.
- [38:54]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
I know life can be easier.
- [38:55]
Jenny Urch
I don't care about the accolades. I just, I'm like, I'm lazy. So I just had a book came out in May. Your book came out in April. It didn't hit any list. Mine's on the list. Not even close. I don't know. I'm like, come on, people buy my book. You know, it's 20 bucks. You know, I'm like, and you don't even need all that many people to buy. It's like in the thousand.
- [39:14]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
I know buy the bar is low, but read. People don't read much anymore. I think that's part of it.
- [39:20]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. So you're in this spot. So you talk about this book called.
- [39:23]
Unnamed Speaker
I'll see you tomorrow.
- [39:24]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [39:24]
Jenny Urch
You wrote it with your husband, Seth, and you're like, I had high hopes. I totally related with this other. I had high hopes that this would be the book that changed all my other books. And that is your hope. That's what I thought. I'm like, this is going to change everything that comes in the future. I want to write a book about AI proofing childhood. I want to write a book about the spiritual lessons that you, you get when you take your kids out in nature. But, but if these, if this book I have here doesn't go well, it limits all your chances.
- [39:50]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [39:50]
Jenny Urch
Moving forward. So this is what you wrote. Not a single influencer. I totally relate because, you know, really listen, for my first book. Book I sent a bag like we have some like thousand hours outside products. Some of them haven't sold as well as others, but we have these little 2 liter bags that are so fantastic for like first aid kids. I mean they're wonderful. So I was like, I sent 50, I think 75 people. They got the book, they got the bag. Now I don't know if you've seen these in Michigan. They have these candies called Mishim Minis. And they're like the shape. They're so good. They're like little sweet tarts. But they're the shape of Michigan and the Upper Peninsula.
- [40:23]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh, cute.
- [40:24]
Jenny Urch
And so I say everybody, the bathroom, the mission Minis, some like a sticker. And the book, people don't post about it. I mean, maybe a few. I'm like, did you get it?
- [40:35]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
You know, and then you're like, do I follow up? I don't want to be aggressive with people.
- [40:41]
Jenny Urch
You know, with my second book, I sit. Nothing.
- [40:43]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [40:44]
Jenny Urch
I was like, I'm not doing that anymore. But you said I felt like a failure in every possible metric. So I'm relating to all of this. And then you talk about this, this story about a woman named Joe.
- [40:55]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [40:56]
Jenny Urch
And I guess we just, we never know. Can you talk a little bit about that story and how in this case it didn't matter that you were a New York Times bestseller. It landed in the lap of the person who really needed it. And that was a side thing that happened that ended up being really positive.
- [41:11]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah. So I think it was 511 people bought the book in the first. Was it the first week or two weeks, something like that. That 511 people, which you know isn't enough for at least in my perception at that time. Okay, this is dead in the water. Nothing is happening. What I did not know is that One of those 511 people was this woman who I have called Joe and Joe at the. Actually at the time that she bought the book, she just, I think she had left church for a while, was struggling to feel connected, found this book, really felt connected. She had worked in political communication for a long time. I am a communication professor. Her dad was a pastor, my dad was a pastor. Just we had a lot of things that we shared in common. So she felt connected to me, started following me online. So like over a year she's getting to see my work. Then I speak just very randomly. Beth Moore asked me to speak for her in D.C. and she like gave me the location and it happened to be D.C. well, also D.C. happened to be one of the places where this woman had a home. And so when she saw I was speaking there, she said, oh, I like this girl's stuff. I'm gonna go see her. And then when she saw me in person, she really felt the Holy Spirit saying, you're supposed to help her. And that was the first time that she had really felt that strongly at the same time that all this is happening in this person's life. Her husband's family is selling their family business, which they end up selling for many, many, many, many, many, many mills, the millions of dollars which she had no idea was going to happen as she's, you know, first encountering me. Long story short, she feels that the Holy Spirit, and this is over a two year period, I want people to understand she feels that the Holy Spirit is telling her that she's supposed to support me to go full time into ministry, which I need people to understand. I had never spoken to this person outside of a couple Venmo. She, she would send me like a Venmo randomly and I would write her back, thank you and stuff, and we would have a little conversation over Venmo. She has no idea that I, at the same time, and feeling God tell me to leave teaching, which I have been doing, that's the only adult girl job I ever had. I started teaching at 23, I think, years old, and I'd been teaching for almost 15 years. And God, I kept feeling God telling me, you're supposed to go full time into ministry. And I'm like, there's no way. Yeah, if you had given me a bestseller, then I could, but I can't. Like how it could have been so easy. Easy Lord. Right, right. So I'm thinking, financially, how am I going to do that? And so, long story short, you guys don't understand the timing. It was the day before I'm about to sign this contract with a corporate speaking agent, which he wanted me to change my website and stuff. So I was going to have to not stop doing my faith stuff. But it was going to have to become secondary to Corporate messaging. And I just felt a lot of uncomfortability with that. Not that I think there's anything wrong with it for my life and what I felt like God was calling me to. I felt like I was choosing money over passion. Right. And so on the day before I'm supposed to sign this contract with this corporate speaking agent, this woman writes me and the and has been so literally the only reason I am full time in ministry right now. And she is supporting me till I think May 2026 is because she has planted. She said, I feel like God has told me to give you the seed money and we'll see what happens in by May 2026. And that's why I'm here. It's just crazy. One of the 511 people who read the book was actually all I needed. And at the same then I'm crying out in my room saying, God, you've forgotten me. God, why don't you see me?
- [44:44]
Jenny Urch
Yeah.
- [44:44]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
He was beside me the entire time.
- [44:49]
Jenny Urch
And that offers that woman a chance to sow seed.
- [44:53]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh my goodness. Just so you know, like, she. She has told me she, I'm her first, I will not be her last. She is going to continue. This is now her ministry. Now that she has these many, many millions, she's like, I want to help other women pursue ministry. And now that she sees how hard it is financially if you're not a New York Times bestseller, like, oh, this is something people can do to step in and help. So it's just been incredible.
- [45:16]
Jenny Urch
Unbelievable. Isn't that such an interesting thing that our failure. Because that's what it felt like, a total failure. Our perceived failure opens up the door for an opportunity for someone else to sow seed.
- [45:29]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Wow.
- [45:29]
Jenny Urch
And that wouldn't have existed. And now if you talk about it, it's like, okay, this is her first, but won't be her last.
- [45:33]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes. Had.
- [45:35]
Jenny Urch
Had you not.
- [45:36]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh my goodness, that failure. I didn't even think about that.
- [45:39]
Jenny Urch
You won't know how far that's going to ripple. You even wrote about how. Gosh, this is. I was like, I'm relating to all this. Okay, you wrote. You put it in the book. So we're talking about it. Yeah, that was okay. You. You put out of books and then you have to go do these podcast tours basically. Right. To help promote your books. This is how it goes. So you have this one podcast that you recorded with for a pretty large audience.
- [46:01]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh, yeah.
- [46:01]
Jenny Urch
And they didn't air it.
- [46:03]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
That actually hurt my feelings. Well, sure, sure.
- [46:07]
Jenny Urch
I had Never had this happen before, and my publicist had never seen it done. The host said they decided the episode would not run because it wasn't a good fit. I was surprised, but also not really. I often felt like I wasn't a good fit. I mean, this is really hard. You say I felt like a failure by every possible metric.
- [46:27]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah. Yeah.
- [46:28]
Jenny Urch
And then here comes Joe. I was grappling with the reality that I had written a book that no one wanted to read. And here's what you wrote. You are part of a much broader story, even if you can't see it. Gosh, that's the message that would probably make. That makes me teary.
- [46:44]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yeah.
- [46:45]
Jenny Urch
You are part of a much broader story, even if you can't see it.
- [46:50]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes. This is what it means to be human. Right. And actually, it's. You really, really set the tone with that, casting you bread upon the water. I keep thinking about it because that is all all of us are going to do is our best. And we may never know in what ways. Luckily for me, Joe circled back around. But how many people haven't, right? How many people have you impacted in your life? Or think about maybe people who have impacted you? And you never said anything, but in your brain, you've always remembered, oh, man, that word that they said, it was really change the direction of this. Right? Teachers experience this a lot where some students come back, but some don't. And you have no idea how many people have changed their direction or their course or their plans because they were in your classroom. Parenting is like that. You have no idea. You know what I mean? How we're impacting other people, and then they go and impact other people. What an incredible thing that we all get to be a part of. This is why my mentor says to me, all we do is make moments for people. That's it. When people are like, what's the purpose of my life? He's like, your purpose is to make a moment for somebody else. Every day, pray. And then I pray this prayer every single day. Lord, give me eyes to see and ears to hear that I can make a moment for someone today. And then I just kind of trust that as people come into my life. Here's an example. I was looking at an apartment with my brother recently, and the girl was there, the girl that was showing us the apartment. She was just really good at her job. She was an. I taught communication for many years. She was an excellent communicator. Right. She was just super friendly, personable, just really good at her job. And I Was feeling. I had prayed that morning, help me to make a moment for someone today. And I was like, okay, maybe this is my opportunity. I see it, so I'm going to say it. And I just said, hey, I just want you to know you are so good at this. I taught communication for almost 15 years. You have a gift. You are an excellent communicator. Swear to you. This girl, she's probably 25 years old, she looks at me and she goes, I was going to school for communication, and I dropped out. And I've been thinking about whether I should go back and, like. And here I am in this apartment, just, hey, you're so good at this. You have a gift for this is what I'm saying. Start when you see something. Say something to people. You have no idea what people are wrestling through in their own prayer life at home.
- [48:59]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. And those are the simple things that someone would point back to you and say, at that moment, my life changed. And I've had that. And I have read that now countless times because I interview these authors. And so I interviewed this one author, Molly.
- [49:12]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Molly Stillman. I was just with her. Yeah, we just did an event in North Carolina two weeks ago.
- [49:18]
Jenny Urch
Oh, I'm so jealous. Okay, so in her book, in Molly Stillman's book, she talks about how she was at rock bottom with her finances, and she had squandered this inheritance that she'd gotten. And she said that someone on the phone, when she called into the debt collector, or whoever it was, the bank, they stayed on the phone with her for however long and they didn't have to, and they changed her whole situation. She was, like, at the end of her rope. She wouldn't. She didn't tell any of her family. And this random person on the phone, and she's like, I would never be able to even find who that is. They might not even be alive. But that one single moment, that person made a moment for Molly. And now this is part of her book. It's in a book for all of these people.
- [49:56]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
And who knows who's reading it.
- [49:58]
Jenny Urch
Yes, yes, yes. Make a moment for someone. And I think one of the biggest parts that you learn from your book. Book, what if I'm wrong? Is that sometimes the moment comes out of what is a perceived failure.
- [50:08]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes, that's been my experience.
- [50:10]
Jenny Urch
But.
- [50:11]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Or. Or is it just that even in failure, God can't be stopped? Yeah, right. When we submit ourselves, whatever looks like weakness or disappointment, it's like the work of God cannot be stopped, even by you. In Your failures.
- [50:26]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, yeah. And it's opening up the door for these other things. It is a very, very powerful message. And you do such a wonderful job of weaving that message through in all sorts of different ways. You've got the biblical characters, you've got the story about your dad, you've got the story about Joe, you've got the story about your daughter. You tell a story about this woman named Courtney who is saying, I'm starting a business. I'm so unsure of everything. Isn't that how it is? I talked to this man the other day who is a chef in the Tennessee area. They have a farm. It's called Kindred Farm. And he has this incredible thing where he's out and he's doing chef chefing for all of these different people. Post Malone. I don't know.
- [51:04]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh, wow.
- [51:05]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. It's a big deal. And I asked him, as a chef, do you have should haves? Like, I should have done this. I should have done that. I'm so unsure. And he said, every single day. Every day, he says, I'm like, oh, I should have done that. We did that in the wrong order. I should have made this certain kitchen first. And we built an event barn. And I thought, gosh, that is. Is where a lot of us live. It's like, I'm so unsure about everything. And what he said was, no, you keep going. So this is Steve Bailey. And he, you know, he's just saying, look, you have these should have, should have, should haves. And this is what your Courtney was saying. I'm so unsure of everything. I don't even know if this business is going to work. And what's she doing? She's planting seeds. She's planting seeds. She's trying cast your bed upon the water, making moments for someone. And then she sold it for profit.
- [51:49]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yep. And just. She sold that business. It was like a week before my final draft was due. And for me, I just felt like, look at the Lord giving me. Because I didn't have a resolution for her story. As I wrote this, and then I added it later. Cause I said, wow, that is so incredible. Yeah. Paid off a bunch of their debt. That because they had had this business that she suffered and struggled through.
- [52:12]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, yeah. And then you wrote this. I realized I didn't need the New York Times to validate a piece of me that I already owned. Which is true, though it does make life easier. That's what I need the New York Times for. I don't need. For validation.
- [52:26]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes.
- [52:26]
Jenny Urch
For an easier path. But this is the thing. Then I read your book and I was like, there's a reason. There is a reason. And it's okay.
- [52:34]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
And it's okay.
- [52:35]
Jenny Urch
And it doesn't have to look like that path. Like, it's going to look like a different path. I was going to partake in my passion with or without them. And I noticed over several years and many classroom lectures that when you use your passion in service to others, when you make a moment for someone, it really does serve them as much as it serves you. I mean, this is a fantastic book. Wow.
- [52:53]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
I'm so glad.
- [52:55]
Jenny Urch
What if I'm wrong? Navigating the waves of fear and failure. If you are the type of person that is like, maybe I'm not gonna have anything to show for this, and maybe I'm doing this wrong. I mean, this is a book that is going to give you so much encouragement. We always end here, and I wanna make sure we hit it because of the Lake Michigan thing. We always end with a favorite memory from your childhood that was outdoors. But I just want to read what you wrote here. Okay. Grew up on Lake Michigan in St. Joe. If you are listening to this and you have a chance to go, you play in that fountain. I mean, those little towns, you're like, forget the lake.
- [53:27]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
The fountain's right there.
- [53:29]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, exactly. Do all of it. But you can just go right up the coast. It's like one after the next after the next. And they're all unique and they're all so special. You wrote, I loved this. This. I walked peers before I had a driver's license. I had sand in my sheets for years. I love to walk the stretch of shore or hike the dunes. For Michiganders, the lake is a sanctuary. My life was one giant swim party. Just tell us a little bit about that childhood. A favorite moment, if you can think of one. Or just maybe the whole thing outdoors when you were a kid.
- [53:59]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Oh, my goodness. So many. I think one that. And I wrote about this in the book. One that jumps out at me. Me was going with this would have been probably my freshman year of high school, swimming out to these large abutments. And it was at Lake Chapin, and everybody there was like a old dangly ladder that hung from it on rope that it was probably not safe at all. And we would climb up top and then jump into the lake. And I just remember you have those moments where you're like, remember this forever. Like, even at 14, I'm looking around and I'm like, you want to remember this? Forever. This is. This is living.
- [54:34]
Jenny Urch
And you wouldn't have had it if you would have stayed in New York.
- [54:37]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Right?
- [54:37]
Jenny Urch
That's the whole thing. It just leaves. He gave his whole life with nothing to show for it. But. But you got to have that lake as a sanctuary. And you even talked about how that when you go look now. And this is very true for the most part. It's like you mostly see kids in the water and you talked about that in the book. It's. And that's a good reminder. You see kids in the water. Why? You know, because the adult doesn't want to get wet. And there's some uncertainty. There's. Yeah, yeah. And you can't regulate it. So we like to be in environments that we reg. We can regulate. And I thought, gosh, we're like you say, we're trying to turn nature into something more habitable. I thought even that. That's such a good reminder. It's like when you see all those kids out in the water. No, you should go too. You should go to be in something that's a little less habitable and deal with the uncertainty and what it's going to be like. And I mean, there is nothing. It will wake you up. I mean, that Lake Michigan water is cold and refreshing and wonderful. It is. Some of the best summer memories that we have are there as well. So Heather. Dr. Heather Thompson Day. What an honor. Author of nine books. The ninth one comes out in August. You should go pre order it now so that London Day.
- [55:40]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Yes. Maybe she'll be the New York Times bestseller.
- [55:44]
Jenny Urch
Maybe she will. Maybe she will. This has been such an honor. Thank you so much.
- [55:47]
Dr. Heather Thompson Day
Thank you. My honor. Thank you, Ginny.