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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 510: A Life Centered Around Intentional Connection | Mark and Senya Ostach, Walk Forward Journal
00:58:05
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- [00:01]
Jenny Urchin
Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax.
- [00:04]
Mark Astash
And let go of whatever you're carrying today.
- [00:08]
Senya Astash
Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class.
- [00:12]
Mark Astash
I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.
- [00:15]
Senya Astash
Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.
- [00:16]
Jenny Urchin
And breathe.
- [00:17]
Mark Astash
Oh, sorry.
- [00:18]
Senya Astash
I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.
- [00:22]
Jenny Urchin
Oh, sorry.
- [00:24]
Mark Astash
Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [00:28]
Jenny Urchin
1-800-Contacts. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urchin. I'm so excited for today's guest. We have Mutual Friend, which is wild and very cool. And also fellow Michiganders, welcome, Mark and Senya Astash. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
- [00:45]
Mark Astash
So great to be here. Thanks for having us.
- [00:47]
Senya Astash
I'm so excited to be here.
- [00:48]
Jenny Urchin
Okay, so we have this mutual friend. Let's kick it off with that. His name is Mike. And here's my story with Mike. So my husband's name is Josh, and when we were in our early 20s, we had some mutual friends.
- [00:59]
Mark Astash
And.
- [01:00]
Jenny Urchin
And Josh, this is like, back, you know, back in the day, Josh had basically stolen my number from a friend.
- [01:07]
Mark Astash
Okay.
- [01:08]
Jenny Urchin
Not Mike, a different friend. And he got my number, and we had these mutual friends, and he called, and I was kind of like, I don't really know this guy, but he knew Mike. So I called Mike and was like, what do you know about this Josh guy? And Mike was just like, really? I don't even know what the word is. Like, he's a great friend. He's, you know, just, like, exuberant about Josh. And so, like, basically, Mike might be the reason that I'm married.
- [01:35]
Mark Astash
Pretty much. That's pretty much what you're saying. Michael is a dear friend of ours, and him and his wife Stacy, that they're great. We wonderful people. Spent time in Florida with them. Now they're back in Michigan. But, yes, Michael is the matchmaker to your marriage is the takeaway of this story.
- [01:49]
Jenny Urchin
Isn't it cool to have these mutual friends? Like, what a small world it is. Yes. Really. Okay, so the two of you, you have just these similar passions, very similar passions to what I have, which is about connection and dealing with loneliness and doing things. And you talk a whole lot about digital distractions and how to deal with those. So just get us rolling with the story of you two. And you talk about having this life centered around intentional connection. Where did that come from?
- [02:19]
Mark Astash
Yes. I guess I'll just take us back to when we first met, we were set up on a blind date.
- [02:24]
Jenny Urchin
Hi, Michael.
- [02:25]
Mark Astash
Yeah, exactly. Set up on a blind date by her sister. And I remember one of our first dates, I had a chance to kind of hang out. We were talking about the music we like to listen to and the books we like to read. And we had like, very similar interests. So we're immediately connecting at that place. We did what many people do on our first date. We got a bottle of wine and neither of us drank any of it because we were both in a season where we were starting to like, not be interested in that kind of like 20 something lifestyle. God was starting to work in our palates and in our. In our desires. She was exactly what I needed, and I think I was kind of what she had been praying for.
- [03:03]
Senya Astash
Absolutely.
- [03:04]
Mark Astash
So, yeah, we started kind of in a season. I had an unexpected death in the family before I was supposed to go on the blind date with her. I was in Vegas for kind of a last hurrah. And it was this experience where I was excited to meet her, but also like mourning the loss of somebody that had taken their own life. So I remember going to this blind date, thinking about canceling it, but instead trusting that, like, I was supposed to be there. We were there. She kind of had. She. She's a little bit more wiser than I am. Senia, can I say that live here that you have more wisdom than I do.
- [03:38]
Jenny Urchin
I think we both have.
- [03:40]
Senya Astash
It's just, you know, I'm a female, you're a male.
- [03:42]
Mark Astash
Yes. But long story short. Yeah, long story short, she got me both back into church journaling and, and therapy within like the first month of dating. So you can tell that Senya was exactly what I needed as she was connecting me to things in life that I desperately desired.
- [03:59]
Jenny Urchin
So, Senya, you're very influential.
- [04:02]
Senya Astash
Yes, well, thank you. I was at a point where I was 30 and I had gone through a very hard breakup. I was engaged before Mark. And so at that point I just really was buckling down on what it is that I want and who it is that I want to have a partner with. And it was an interesting. The whole experience was so interesting because my ex fiance was a great man. And so it was really just God stirring in my heart that he is this great man, but that he deserves someone who is in love with him and I deserve someone who I love in a deeper way. And I didn't quite understand that. You know, I almost wanted something to be wrong with him so I could justify why I was Feeling this pull and tug on marrying, you know, and then we go through a breakup. But then slowly, about a year later, I. I meet Mark. And he was completely different than what I think my mind had expected me to. So I just. I just was at this very grounded place when I met him.
- [05:15]
Jenny Urchin
So you come together and you're challenging each other. I see behind you you have just like stacks and stacks and stacks of books. And somewhere along the journey, then you become a speaker, you become an author. Now I have your book here called Courage to Connect stories that encourage meaningful connection in your life. I was just floored that you had like a picture for everything. You have, like the story after story. And I was like, wait, like, there's a picture of that thing that he's talking about. A picture that was really cool. You have this walk forward journal. So you talk about journaling. You've created that. What's the bridge there? You know, obviously you come together, there's a spark. You have very similar paths that you want to go down, but then it becomes more. It becomes a thing that you are taking out into the broader world. What happened in that time period.
- [06:01]
Mark Astash
Yeah. So just as way of background, the reason why there's picture. Why I created a picture book, even though it's more of a literal book, is Senia was a photographer for 20 years, so she was always capturing life. So when we were together, there was just this, like, real time before there was even, like digital cameras. Right. She was capturing life. And she also had a blog before I even knew what blogging was. So I remember, like, on our second date, I knew more about her because she'd been blogging since like 1999, you know, well, 2006. But still there was just like, she was a writer, I was a writer. We both had desire to, like, document life. So as we were coming together, journaling and just capturing the beauty around you was all part of our story and our origin together. So I remember going back to Michael, our mutual friend Michael. I was in a job that I enjoyed, but I didn't love. And I had wanted to do what I'm doing now, which is speaking and writing full time on human connection and wellness. And she was into wellness. She kind of swapped our medicine cabinet for homeopathy and other things that were good. And I remember having a manuscript rejected of the book from an editor friend. And it just kind of set me in a. In a bit of a writer's block for a year. And then Michael said, hey, why don't you just take those stories you've been writing for the last three years and, like, put them together into a book. And I thought, well, that's a brilliant idea. So he did that. Most of the photographs you see in the book Sunny has taken, and that was really kind of that leap of faith saying, like, yes, the stories that we have to share. Because just like you, storytelling is the basic way that we can teach both our children and adults. Yeah. And that was really the origin on how that book courage to Connect allowed us to kind of launch into this. Hey, our stories matter. Senya had actually created. Do you want to tell them about. I want to know your story.
- [07:53]
Senya Astash
Yeah, well. And I also want to say. Well, I guess it kind of ties in. Stories are such a way that literally, it's like the ultimate connector. Like, I love when I'm listening to someone and they're really going into the full, you know, science behind it, and then they pull back and they say, here's a story to describe this. And it just brings that vulnerability and that authenticity of, like, oh, wow, there's a human behind this too, you know, and it also makes us. It reminds us that we're not alone. And I think that in this world, it's. It's easy to get so to. It's. It's funny. We're in this world where there's so many distractions and so many ways that you think you're connecting, but then you can feel this really great sense of loneliness, you know? So, yeah, I did for a couple years. I also did this. I called it I want to know your story, and I basically offered it to anyone who wanted to share their story, and they would send me. They would either send me their story if they wanted to write it, or I would interview them and I would actually write out their story and put on my blog, and I'd meet up with them and take pictures and. And put that all on the blog to just share all these different stories of people in hopes of gathering connection and inspiration.
- [09:11]
Mark Astash
Yeah, like a mother of three who wanted to be a marathon runner who has one lung.
- [09:17]
Senya Astash
Well, no, you're mixing the story, but, yes, she is. She's done so many marathons and just. And she has one and I think a quarter lung, if I remember correctly. So, yeah, just really, really fascinating stories all across the board.
- [09:33]
Jenny Urchin
And everyone has one. Everyone has a story. Let's talk about one of the stories from Courage to Connect. And where can people get this bookmark?
- [09:40]
Mark Astash
Yeah, you can get Courage to Connect on Amazon and. And also my website, markostash.com and yeah. Which story you want to talk about?
- [09:49]
Jenny Urchin
Devin.
- [09:51]
Mark Astash
Devin, yes. So the book starts off with a story. So I'd worked in downtown Detroit for 20 years, and I always like to say people said, hey, are you a pastor? And I said, no, but I've got a street ministry. And the street ministry was just really engaging people that God placed on my path when I'd be walking downtown. And I remember telling Senya about a man that we call Devin in the story that we met on the streets of. That I met on the streets of Detroit one Friday afternoon. It was like late lunch. All I had to do was drop something off at a client, then I could boogie home for an early weekend. And I meet Devin on the streets and he asked for some food. And long story short, I ended up sitting with him for five minutes to hear his story with a tattoo of his mother's name on his forehead, who he never met. He was probably in his late 20s, just got out of jail, had no food, no money, no bus ticket. And as I began hearing his story, that five minutes on the park bench led to six hours in Detroit as we walked together looking to find him a hotel so he could shower up, get cleaned up. And I had called Sen and we were going to pick up some clothes and some, you know, the bare necessities for him.
- [10:59]
Senya Astash
Jacket.
- [10:59]
Mark Astash
Yep. So I remember going home that night late for our Friday night family movie night. But I was just trembling with compassion for this guy Devin, who I don't even know how he got to where he got, but he was in great need. So we devised a plan that on Monday morning I would come back with all of the items that Sunny was beginning to gather from Target and Meyer and such. And I go back on Monday morning with all these things, and he wasn't there. And I remember feeling so sad that he seemed like he had hope. And the desire was to get him cleaned up so he could get a job at a local restaurant that I knew the owner of. And the owner said, as long as he's got clean clothes, I'm happy to put him to work. Back washing dishes.
- [11:44]
Jenny Urchin
And you had given him a bunch of quarters. He can go use the laundromat. You're setting him up for success. Yeah. But he's not there.
- [11:51]
Mark Astash
Yeah, he's not there. So I. We remember praying about it. And like, I kind of like went to the spots that I thought he'd be for the next few days on my walk in downtown Detroit by Campus Marshes, the beautiful ice skating Rink, if anybody's been down there in the winters. And gosh, it was probably nearly two months, and I had a chance to do an interview with Channel 7 about helping to improve kind of digital well being in our communities and workplaces.
- [12:17]
Jenny Urchin
And.
- [12:17]
Mark Astash
And the anchor said, hey, why don't we get some B roll walking in the streets of Detroit? So here I am, like, you know. You know, excited to be having a local TV spot, but also, like, awkwardly walking the streets of Detroit because I know there's two cameras, like, watching my, you know, my strutting my stuff down Griswold. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, I see Devin for the first time in six weeks out of the corner of my eye. And it was like almost like that scene in the movie where you see that, like a reunited soldier and his girlfriend in the airport, and they're just running towards each other. But we had a slow walk, and it was just this embrace that the anchor and the cameraman, although they weren't filming, I could tell they were capturing it in their hearts while they watched us kind of in this moment of reunion. And he was. He was so grateful and thankful for. For our time. And I had been carrying that bag of stuff in my. In the back of our Jeep, so I ran and got it, gave it to him, and he had shared that. You know, that night at the hotel, he took four showers. He took four showers. So, yeah, what a story.
- [13:30]
Jenny Urchin
What a story. And that's kind of like the framing of the whole book, which is that you. You have courage, you connect, and you take a story like that, which I. I got emotional listening to it, and that's so much better than being on a screen. You know, I mean, it's maybe a very, like, simple, almost stupid thing to say, but you're like, that is what life is about, are those moments. And you're not ever gonna forget that story. But we forget all sorts of things that we do on a screen. And I even like the part that you wrote about Mark where you were letting go of the control. I think it's an interesting story that you had a plan for him to work at this restaurant. Yeah, but God's plan for him was to be at the construction site. And so that's very biblical, right? We plant seeds, we water seeds, but God is the one who makes them grow. So God had a plan for it all along, and you stepped in and you played your part. And then this got this man, you know, back on track, like, who knows where. He. He was on the sidewalk like, you know, where would he be had you not stepped in and played your part and sacrificed and you know, and not ran home for your long weekend and that type of thing. So that is the beauty of this book. It's filled with stories. Hey friends, it is Ginny Urch from 1000 hours outside and I have to tell you we are in the middle of a brutal heat wave in Michigan. I'm talking hot humid sleep stealing nights. But guess what? This year we are finally prepared with cozy earth sheets. These bamboo sheets are temperature regulating magic. Made from viscos from bamboo, they wick away heat and moisture so you sleep several degrees cooler. It's not just marketing, it's science. Sleeping cooler helps your body release melatonin faster, which means better sleep and better moods. I can feel the difference. I wish I had these years ago during those muggy nights with kids piled in the bed and no one sleeping. And the best part? It is totally risk free. You get a 100 night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty on all bedding. That's right, 10 years of better sleep. So don't sweat through another summer night. Upgrade your summer sleep at Cozy Earth Day and use code outside for 40% off their best selling sheets loungewear which is super comfortable and more that's cozyearth.com and make sure you use code outside for 40% off. You'll feel the difference the very first night. Sleep Cooler Lounge Lighter Stay Cozy. This episode is brought to you by Stay Farm.
- [16:01]
Senya Astash
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- [16:02]
Jenny Urchin
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- [16:05]
Senya Astash
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- [16:07]
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- [16:23]
Senya Astash
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- [16:55]
Jenny Urchin
You also talk a lot about digital wellness and one thing I thought was really interesting was about this these like sort of time swaps. I thought this is a brilliant thing to talk about when you go through and you say, do you know what? You could read a whole book in 10 hours. I mean, a book you love to read. You guys have a bunch of books back there, you know, some novel that you love in 10 hours. Or you go through and you talk about if you had 28 hours, you could train for a marathon, or if you had 120 hours, you could become a pretty good guitar player, that type of thing. And I think that's really wise because we look at our phones and we're like, oh, you were on your phone for an average of 4 hours and 21 minutes last week. And you're like, ooh, that's, you know, I'm trying to do the Math. Math, that's 21 hours, right? Or 28 hours. Do you know I used to be a math teacher? Okay, that's 28 hours. But if I look at your time swaps, I'm like, what have I missed out on? So can you both talk about like this digital wellness piece? I know your parents, you know, and you're very intentional with how you're living. How are you dealing with digital wellness in your family?
- [18:00]
Mark Astash
You want to take this one?
- [18:02]
Senya Astash
Yeah, I'm very passionate about this and I think it's something that we have to keep learning and listening and reading books and asking questions. And I think one thing that comes to mind with our children, so we have a 10 and almost 8 year old. She, she's 8 in a couple of weeks. And especially with our 10 year old, he is, you know, he sees a lot of his friends having phones and, and getting screen time and playing video games and all the things. And so he asks us often, well, semi often. And I always just tell him, I say, you know, every family is going to do what's best for their family. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It means that's what they choose for their family and this is what we're choosing for our family. And I think that helps bring some peace in the house around those decisions. And I think I speak for Mark and I, that we have seen that even when there's talk about, well, why don't we have this and why don't we do this? Because we, in our home right now, we do not have video games. We do not. The kids do not have any sort of iPad or anything like that. And obviously they don't have phones either. So it's so interesting to me. In fact, I was just sharing this story and I think it kind of ties everything together. But we were offered a PlayStation by my brother in law because he got a new one over Christmas. And so my immediate was like, no, we don't need that.
- [19:22]
Mark Astash
He had it like packed up in the trunk, ready to go, made sure the controllers were working. You know, I was ready to play football immediately.
- [19:27]
Senya Astash
Yeah. And that's always, you know, he says, often he'll say, oh, well, you know, we can play football. We can, you know, and I'm like, you can grab a football, we can go outside and play football. And so, so, you know, but then I also have this, you know, I always want to make sure we're equally yoked. And so I feel like, okay, well, Mark wants to bring this home and I will let that happen. We'll work together. But it was so interesting how the I feel the holy Spirit worked in both of us because by the time that thing got home, it never got inside our house. Mark immediately said, I don't want it in here.
- [20:02]
Mark Astash
I felt so convicted.
- [20:03]
Senya Astash
He felt so convicted. And that's, you know, I feel like as we're talking about all these things which I love, you know, these stories, even just remembering the story about Devin and you know, even with Devin, I remember saying, like, if God connected you guys, I won't be surprised if you reconnect again. And I just felt like even that reconnection was just him saying, like, look like it is, it's planting the seed, Ginny. And I think we miss those opportunities to plant the seed when we don't allow ourselves to be led by the spirit and allow God to take our day where he wants it to go. And so back to the PlayStation. We never brought it in and our son never asked about it. He never said, well, why didn't we, you know, why aren't we playing it? He never, he never even questioned it. And so it was just like those little bits where it feels kind of difficult. And then our children show us they would rather play Candyland, they'd rather do the Uno, they'd rather play outside and, you know, or go on an adventure, go on a hike, go on a bike ride, whatever it is, depending on the season. I just feel like those are the constant wins that we need as parents to remind ourselves that this is what our children are actually craving. This is what they want. And I, I can count, I mean, I can't even count how many times our kids have said, I just love today because it was a total family day and we just hung out together all day long. And yes, there was dinner and all the things that have to happen. But they didn't see it that way. They saw the connection of the time we spent together. And it's not anything extravagant. It's the simple things, as magical as.
- [21:35]
Mark Astash
That sounds like any other family, there's always tension and dysfunction.
- [21:40]
Senya Astash
Absolutely.
- [21:41]
Mark Astash
And I want to use this end of this story as a bridge to the walk forward journal, because when I received the PlayStation for my brother, one of the things that happens when we go visit my family is I default back to my family of origin patterns.
- [21:56]
Jenny Urchin
Oh, yes. No, I totally relate because Josh is. He's like a huge Seinfeld fan and which is great. Seinfeld is super funny. But whenever. But we don't ever talk about Seinfeld. But as soon as we're back with his family, it is like all Seinfeld the whole time. And it's just one of those things that's not. It's like not a big deal or anything like that, but just funny, like, and everybody does that. Everybody reverts back, I think.
- [22:18]
Senya Astash
Absolutely. Hello.
- [22:23]
Jenny Urchin
He'll love it. But it happens like almost immediately. It's like you flip a switch, it's like, no Seinfeld. And then Seinfeld relates to Seinfeld. So anyway, yeah, the family of origin thing, I love it.
- [22:34]
Senya Astash
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I was thinking, I was like, I was thinking about how that happens. I was like, oh, well, when we go to see his family, there's like, there is a little switch that happens. So. Yeah, that's funny.
- [22:44]
Mark Astash
Yeah. So, all right, so just kind of, kind of blending this together. Our hearts are for connection and wellness, but the truth is, is that life is tough and it's a journey. And as we've kind of gone through our ups and downs in lives, I remember a couple years ago, well, I should say about a year ago, I read a stat that said we spend four and a half hours a day on our phones outside of work. And if our fingers were on a treadmill, our fingers would scroll five miles of distance a day. So that means our fingers move five miles of distance a day in our recreation time. And that convicted me on this idea of, well, like, well, why don't we just go start walking more? And in that same season, I had been referred to a therapist in Grand Rapids on the west side of Michigan. And he was a person. He's a Christian counselor that primarily focuses on counseling pastors. And even though I'm not a pastor by training, I think I have a heart of a pastor.
- [23:45]
Jenny Urchin
I want to Step in and say a pastor is just a shepherd.
- [23:49]
Senya Astash
Yes.
- [23:50]
Jenny Urchin
I think that in our day and age, we have equated it with some sort of elevated position. But the word pastor is only in the New Testament, I'm pretty sure once. Yes. And that's all it means, is a shepherd of people, someone who leads people in the ways of the Lord?
- [24:05]
Mark Astash
Yes. And actually, I believe God's kind of wired me like David as a shepherd poet warrior, which is David's identity. Shepherd David. But. So I'm in Grand Rapids, I see this guy, and I don't even know why I'm there, other than I know I have to work on some stuff that I hadn't faced from my youth, had a good upbringing, but like many others, there was things that I hadn't processed that I was looking to process. So, anyways, this guy, Greg Dempster is his name, he introduced me to what's called the healing framework. And in short, the healing framework says that everybody has mis. Processed or unprocessed parts of their life, also known as trauma. And because of that misprocessed life experience, we have distorted lenses in which we view the world. Those distortions create disruptive emotions. Those disruptive emotions lead to dysfunctional behaviors, and those patterns keep us stuck in our stuckness.
- [25:00]
Jenny Urchin
Is there a book about this?
- [25:01]
Mark Astash
So the Walk Forward Journal is a unique journal because I took Greg Dempster's work, his teaching on the healing framework, and kind of birthed by the Holy Spirit, translated it into this journal experience called Walk Forward that Senon and I co created and co authored together. Because journaling and walking have been key to our own healing. But this healing framework, there's an onboarding experience in the Walk Forward Journal takes about an hour to do, where you take inventory of your heart and inventory of what God's speaking to you in the season that you're in. And you begin to kind of get real with your stuff on the distortions you hold and the disruptive emotions that it leads to. So I'll give you, for instance, I grew up in a home where my parents were high school sweethearts, but they were always kind of emotionally separated. And Since I was 12 years old, I took on the role of a counselor to my parents. So because of that role in my family of origin, I began to develop the lens or the distortion that I'm only okay if you're okay. So I could only be okay, whatever that, you know, equilibrium was in okayness, if my parents were okay. So it was my job to make them okay. And Sen grew up in a house where her parents, God bless them, her dad passed five years ago, but they stayed together. But they also stayed together through good old Eastern European Serbian conflict. So alcohol and conflict is what she knew where I knew passivity and ignoring conflict. So one of the other lenses that I grew up with is that conflict is not good. So here we are, fast forward 30 years. We're in our early 40s, and she knows how to professionally argue and I know how to professionally hide. And that's not going to sustain our marriage or our kids at what they see to be as good marriage. So the walk Forward journal allows you to kind of get real with those distortions. So that way you can begin to address and kind of walk with God to heal the things that you haven't processed or under processed earlier in life.
- [27:21]
Jenny Urchin
I like the phrase the word mis processed. I've actually never heard that. I think a lot of people have done some, you know, deep dives or spurred on by whatever type of thing and maybe not even with a counselor, but like starting to look back into their past or this thing seemed to, you know, throw off my equilibrium. Yeah, but that you could mis process it. And you think, I worked through that or I worked through this other situation, but mis processed. So this journal, the Walk Forward Journal, it has worship on a daily basis. Worship, worry, whisper, wonder, and walk forward. And at the end there is a little mantra. And like you said at the beginning, there's some instruction. Where can people get this?
- [28:03]
Senya Astash
Well, they can get it on our. Yay. On our website, walkfordjournal.com and it comes in four different colors and there are daily, so daily walking pages. I just want to say too that there is an onboarding process. However, I've always told everyone that it is important to go through the onboarding process. You will gain a lot from it, but you can literally just go straight to a walking page too, if you need to just kind of get into it. That's how when Mark started talking about how he had been using his journal differently, this was well over now. A year ago, I said, hey, can you give me those promptings? And I started writing the questions, the walking pages questions in my own journal. And almost, not almost quite literally, that first time I used it, I was blown away by how I think. For me, it was this process of like, okay, I love writing what I'm grateful for. That comes easily. And then it comes really easily to write down also what I'm worried about or what I'm feeling anxious about. So it was like, okay, bam, bam, this is, this is simple. But then when it told me to pause and ask God what he's revealing to me in this, that took a lot of courage. And it was the courage of understanding that, oh my goodness, I do hear him and his voice sounds like my voice, which is like, okay, I gotta trust that part. But there was this one time where he said, in that moment of silence that I heard him say, I command you to rest in me. And I immediately said to myself, you mean encouraged, don't you? And I heard again, no, I command you. And it wasn't I command you. It was, no, I command you to rest in me. It was a very gentle voice. And I knew in that moment that I don't speak that way. I don't say I command you. I would say, I encourage you. I would, I would. You know, so that just. And then to end with the affirmations of the I am statements. I don't know, it's been, it's been just quite an awesome journey. And I'm just so excited that there are people sharing in on this now too.
- [30:17]
Mark Astash
Yeah, I'll just, I'll just add to that. So if those that are listening are still tracking. The journal combines mental health and faith, which are two topics that sometimes don't intersect as beautifully as they could. A lot of the inspiration came from a book called the Garden within, which a trauma psychologist and a God fearing woman documents how God wired our hearts not only for emotional expression. Sometimes don't follow your feelings is deterred by the church. But oftentimes most of Jesus's work came out of the compassion of his feelings and his heart. So the heart is a brilliant part of creation that informs us on how we should behave, think, and show up. The problem is that our hearts have hardened from our past experiences. So what's cool about the walking pages is that it just is a ritualistic way to soften the soil of your heart and it becomes softened by God's whisperer. And that's the thing is like, I grew up Catholic, she grew up orthodox. Two totally foreign ways of like, understanding that we serve a God that wants to both walk with us and whisper to us. So it took us a while to kind of like deconstruct our knowledge of God through our own trauma and hurt. And the walking pages really is a beautiful way to say hey every day. And it comes with this cool little progress chart where you, you walk for 15 minutes. So it's a literal call for movement outside. We want to create a movement of movement. You do your walking pages when you're feeling heavy or hurt. And then lastly, each walking page has a scripture or a quote and you can take a picture of it through a QR code and encourage a friend on their walk. So you're in community the same way you'd share an Instagram real or a Bible verse. So it's this kind of digital and analog space. And then after every six walking pages, there's a rest page. Do you want to speak to those?
- [32:13]
Senya Astash
Yeah. I love the rest pages because I think that, I know for me personally it's hard for me to rest. I just am not wired that way. And we obviously know God calls us to rest. It is the commandment. So when, when we get to the rest pages, it's just, I don't know, I just, it's even like exciting to get to it because it reminds me like, oh, like, okay, this is just this day where I get to choose what I'm going to do to have a little self care or have a little downtime and really just soak in the week that, that just, you know, that was just in, I guess just pass, not in front of me, but also get ready for the week that's in front of me. And it just really encourages that time that I'm just realizing the older I get and ironically the busier we get that if we don't, if we're, if we don't listen to that whisper, if we don't find time to rest, we're just, I feel like treading water. We're just trying to come up for air and God wants us to. I just got this visual of just like float and just like just, you know, succumb to that. It's all going to get done. In fact, it's going to get done so much better if you just rest.
- [33:24]
Mark Astash
And the cool thing is if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I don't journal well, this is not like an open journal. This is like a step by step fill in the blank. On the rest day, we give you like 8 items to choose from. Take a bath, take a 1 hour digital fast, read a book, go outside, just circle it, commit. And the same thing with walking pages. It's a step by step. How do you, how do you identify what emotion you're releasing or casting on the, on the cross today? And then once you've heard from God, are you releasing, rising above or resting in what he's spoken over you? So it's very much a like, you know, it's not paint by numbers, but if you're new to journaling, this is a great journal for you to like have a guide to bring you closer to what's on your heart. Because all the research shows and that's why there's power in the pen, that those that have a habit of journaling have much more of an emotional expression and they're not repressing the things that are haunting them from their past or even preventing them from living in the present of today.
- [34:24]
Senya Astash
And there is power in putting, you know, pen to paper, your words and your thoughts to paper. And I did forget that on the rest day. I wanted to mention on the rest day pages, Mark and I also there's a little, there's still the QR code to scan the quote or whatever inspirational message, but then there's also a little QR code and we recorded just an encouraging message from the two of us as well on those rest day pages that you can just kind of relax and listen to.
- [34:52]
Mark Astash
Yeah. So it's like an analog and digital journal. We're not like going all the way back to Little House in the Prairie days with our.
- [34:59]
Senya Astash
Although I don't mind that either.
- [35:01]
Jenny Urchin
Right. Like you didn't bring the video games into your house. So it's called the Walk Forward Journal. And then this book, the book that I was talking about earlier with the story about Devin that has all of Senya's photos in it is called Courage to Connect.
- [35:14]
Senya Astash
When you hear Lululemon, you probably think of Align yoga pants. Weightlessly soft like you're wearing next to to nothing. That's why you see them in class, at the grocery store and in the park. But did you know about skirts with built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits With Align's iconic stretch you won't want to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or online@lululemon.com I think you're on mute.
- [35:46]
Mark Astash
Workday starting to sound the same.
- [35:49]
Senya Astash
I think you're on mute.
- [35:51]
Mark Astash
Find something that sound better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections you can browse.
- [35:57]
Senya Astash
Curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you.
- [36:05]
Mark Astash
Can find the right job for you.
- [36:07]
Senya Astash
Get started@LinkedIn.com jobs finding where you fit.
- [36:11]
Mark Astash
LinkedIn knows how.
- [36:14]
Jenny Urchin
Savor every last drop of summer with Starbucks. From bold refreshers to rich cold brews. The sunniest Season only gets better with a handcrafted ice beverage in your hand. Hand available for a limited time. Your summer favorites are ready at Starbucks. I, I wanted to swing back to the video game thing.
- [36:33]
Senya Astash
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Jenny Urchin
Because, you know, I think it's an interesting. Like you, you talk so much about digital wellness. You at one point had 47 URLs, and a lot of them had to do with, you know, restyourphone.com like these types of things. And I think you've narrowed it down. I mean, we have a lot of your URLs too. Every time you think of an idea and it's like only a penny, you're like, get that one. You know, get that one.
- [36:53]
Mark Astash
Yes.
- [36:53]
Jenny Urchin
We have one called Concert, for instance. It's like a concert plus a conference, combined concert, for instance, dot com cost us a penny. So we've got, you know, we don't have 47, but we have quite a few as well. We bought all of our kids names. I mean, I think, I mean, these are decent ideas, you know, to go. And so that your kid, you know, if they have something that they're doing someday, they've got their own website. But the, the video games used to be very fairly, I think, innocent. And what I've heard as of late is that they're, it's changed and that they're made so that you have nothing, that you have no hobbies, that you have nothing that you're interested in. That, that is what takes up all your time. So what a wonderful gift to give your kids to hold off. I mean, I, I think if parents got like a, you know, something from like 1998, you know, or 94, I mean, it probably would be better.
- [37:43]
Mark Astash
We do have a $30Amazon Game Boy knockoff that like works half the time.
- [37:49]
Senya Astash
You or something on it. Yeah. But it's interesting though, when you do fill your kids with other things, they don't ask for it off, like. Yeah, very rarely, you know, so.
- [37:59]
Jenny Urchin
Right. So you had some really cool digital wellness ideas. I was like, these are great ideas. These are encouraged to connect about, like sending a maximum of five emails a day or your workday ends at four. And you leave your phone there, you leave your things there. A smartphone that locks you out if you're too stressed.
- [38:17]
Mark Astash
Yes.
- [38:17]
Jenny Urchin
I was like, come on, these are brilliant, brilliant ideas. But the one thing that really stuck out to me quite a bit, kind of stopped me in my tracks, encouraged to connect is you wrote something like, imagine yourself in 15 years. Imagine the world in 15 years. And it's like, you know, the iPhone 225 is out and whatever it is, you know, and it's. It like, is a hologram or, you know, you start to imagine in my imagination, I'm like, things look kind of bleak. But if you go back and you Talked about how 1965 people were like, there's only going to be 20 hour work weeks and everyone's going to have so much free time and they just missed the mark. You know, they're sort of envisioning all the promise that technology provides. But there was no thought toward the peril. If you were to look 15 years down the road, what do you see?
- [39:05]
Mark Astash
Well, I'll borrow an idea that God's given me from years ago, but when I. A few years ago, I did a TED talk called the Future of Digital Wellness, and the year was 2034. And I projected that there'll be a generation of people called dippies, digital hippies, and that they're going to go back to peace, love, and flip phones or no phones at all. And interestingly enough, in Jonathan Haidt's book, the Anxious Generation, he's beginning to document a subculture of young kids, young children that are doing just that. They're saying, our parents are stressed, our teachers are stressed, mental health is on the rise. We feel it, we know it, we see it. So we're going to kind of go back to this, like, tribal, no phone vibe. And I don't think they're going to want to be called dippies, by the way. That's kind of a pretty silly name. But I do believe that just like fashion trends come back with bell bottoms from the 1970s to now. I believe that there's going to be an uprising, a revival of our youth that say, hey, this is just nonsense. Like, let's go back to Bo both being outside and just being around each other. So that's my hope. That's the hope I'm holding for future generations. Yeah.
- [40:16]
Jenny Urchin
Full circle. It comes full circle. People thought it was going to be everything. It turned out to be so much stress. And so they're coming back.
- [40:23]
Mark Astash
Yeah.
- [40:23]
Jenny Urchin
Okay, well, let's talk about this, because you are from Michigan and you did bring up Meijer. So anybody who is listening and who is not from Michigan is gonna have no idea what Meijer is. It's kind of like a Kroger, but it has like, clothes and more. I don't even know what you would call it. You can get your groceries there, but you can also buy your underwear. They have everything. So That's a Michigan thing. You're talking about Grand Rapids. Okay, this is something that was in your book that I was like, oh, my goodness, it's so cool. A huge Michigan thing is Zingerman's. It is this, like world renowned. Everybody knows about Zingerman's. I actually, I just went to the bakery for the very first time last weekend. I can't believe I hadn't been there. We've been to the restaurant and my midwife is friends with Ari, the owner, so I've got to meet him. And he signed. I've got all the books, all the business books, and he signed mine and it was so cool. But you have a picture with Ari, the founder of Zingerman's in Courage to Connect. You went and did some of the training and I just, like, I'm just curious, like, what did you learn? What was that all about?
- [41:26]
Mark Astash
So one of the things that Sandy and I have always done is maybe you can speak to this. Every January we meet together and we do what?
- [41:34]
Senya Astash
Goal planning.
- [41:35]
Mark Astash
Goal planning. And we. And we also talk about, like the vision that God's giving us for the year. And it's a great time because we get overly caffeinated. We eat lots of chocolate, well, you know, chocolate croissants, these sorts of things. But we practice the art of visioning. And visioning is a term I learned from Ari. Ari's culture, he's got about eight subsidiaries, all within the food industry, from candy to coffee to cafes. And he has a really thriving culture that takes on different core values. One of them is a value called visioning. So visioning is a process where you pick a date in the future towards a project or a future state, and you write about it. Free flow, hot pen, they call it. You don't lift the pen up for half an hour and you describe it using all five senses. And the idea is, is that as you use all five senses, you begin to pull into fruition what it is that you're actually desiring or envisioning. So coincidentally, I was. It was this crazy season where it was right before I got. Well, it was 2019. I told my boss, I want to quit my job so I can write and speak full time. He said, great. He was a dear friend. And then two weeks later, we lost our biggest client. And he said, you know what? I gotta lay you and six other people off. So my four session plan went to two weeks. That was the same season that Sen was caring for her dad in hospice.
- [43:03]
Senya Astash
Yeah.
- [43:04]
Mark Astash
So I came to her, I Said, hey, you know that four month Runway, it's now two weeks. And she said, I believe in you, but we don't have.
- [43:12]
Senya Astash
You said, give me six months. And you know, I said, okay. And I also, it was, it was quite a time because the one person that I would go to to talk to about this would have been my dad. And he passed away two days later actually. So it was just like, just so much leaning on the Lord.
- [43:31]
Mark Astash
So my last week at my that job, I was able to take this workshop because we were doing some work for Zingerman. So it was part of our contract. So I sat in this workshop and I remember thinking, all right, two days, I have to write a vision. So I wrote a vision for five years from 2019 to 2024. And I mean, I used every detail as possible. This is all on the podcast Courage to Connect, talking about this idea of visioning. And long story short, not only did I read and rehearse that vision, you know, every month for five years, but a lot of the things in that vision came to fruition from becoming a keynote speaker to writing books, to, you know, just different things that we had desired for the family. And I'll land the plane by saying in 2024. So a little over a year ago, that vision came to pass, it matured. It had been five years, so I wrote a new vision. But this year the vision was a three year vision. Not focused on like material success, but healing within our house. And that's how the Walk Forward Journal has really kind of jump started this idea of like you can have things and you can fill a home and you can fill a garage, but if there's not peace in the house, then it's all for nothing. And Sen and I, we're Enneagram twos, so we're always, you know, those that don't know the enneagram. The enneagram 2 is the helper. So we're always trying to help. But if you can't have it work at the home, it doesn't matter who you're helping outside of your home. So a lot of our patterns and distortions and these sorts of things, we're committed over the next three years to really focus on individually so that way we can come together stronger and show our kids what it looks like to have parents who have done the work. So the vision that you can check out on Courage to connect about creating a life worth living towards is all about healing and provision kind of in our life. And hopefully it'll encourage you to do the same in yours.
- [45:37]
Jenny Urchin
So when you talk about this is like a five senses vision which makes so much sense when you go into Zingerman's. I mean the bakery was just like, it's not the bakery, it's like it's a deli but there's like a bakery attached.
- [45:52]
Mark Astash
Correct.
- [45:53]
Jenny Urchin
It was, I was like, this is the coolest experience. We live like 25 minutes from there. I've never gone. I've only ever gone to the Roadhouse but it's right by. Which is a restaurant, but it's right by the farmer's market. And I was like, this is the pinnacle of my life. Like taking pictures with a friend of mine, Melody. I was like, we're here. She'd never been there either. We had some kids with us and it was a five senses experience and it was bustling and the noise and the smells and the way the signage is and the way that the, you know, you move through and the options that are in the menu. So that's really interesting. What's an example of what a five senses vision would look like when you are trying to have healing within your home?
- [46:33]
Mark Astash
Yeah, so. So again you write from the state of. So when I wrote in 2024, I was writing as if it was five year or three years from now. So I said, oh, as if it's already. Yeah, exactly. So you write from a place that it's already happened. So. So I would say for instance, what a year. Joby, Our son is 12 years old and he's maturing greatly. I no longer project my desires onto him. I've learned to learn what his heart desires. Sen and I haven't had a blow up argument for over a year. Praise God, from whom all blessings flow. This was a burden that plagued our family for over five years together. Our daughter is now nine years old, the same age that he was when I wrote this vision three years ago. Her lazy eye is no longer lazy as it has fully come to heal. We've learned to appreciate her. And even on her eighth birthday with everybody at our house gathered around to celebrate her life and her little eighth birthday, not only has her eye healed, but we decided to get her a bunny. And I speak this poem because again, as a shepherd poet warrior, one of my identities is writing and poetry. So I write this poem about her that I wrote in 2024 that we just got our bunny last week. So again, this is that space of like it's not like magical manifestation but it's like intentionality and focus that the Things that God places on your heart are the desires he wants you walking towards. And the Bible says those without vision will perish. So we don't need to have a crystal ball, but we need to have a direction that we feel God is nudging us towards. And sometimes writing that takes so much courage. And as you get in the experience, creatively writing, like a poem to my daughter that I spoke over her eighteen months after I wrote it, maybe that's just me kind of in my advanced visioning.
- [48:34]
Senya Astash
Well, but I want to speak on that, because I can see people thinking like, oh, that's easy. Just go buy the bunny. But the backstory behind the bunny is. Is that I've never felt like we were supposed to get her a bunny. And then Mark has this premonition or this, you know, I guess, feeling that she's gonna have one by her eighth birthday. And I was like, that's a hard. No, that's not happening. We have three dogs, and I'm gonna be the one taking care of it. And, you know, so I just was like, that's beautiful. I so want. I would love to be able to give her one, but it's not gonna happen. And then Mark said, okay, well, I wrote this. He read it to me. I was like, it's gorgeous. I love the poem, and great job. And then in December, January of this, you know, couple months ago, God started working on my heart, and he started pushing me, gently nudging, I should say, nudging me to start thinking about getting her a bunny. And I'm telling you, I did not want to get her a bunny. But then all of a sudden, I was like, okay, I'll start by asking my friend who has bunnies. And so, long story short, I finally feel out of my heart. I mean, with trepidation, this is not like, oh, yeah, let's just get a bunny. Let's add another thing to. Right? But then I just. There were all these things that he showed me and that she was even speaking, how she was saying, I want more responsibility, and I'm ready, you know? So it was just like, oh, my goodness. Like, I think we're supposed to get her a bunny. And then guys, I tell Mark, okay, I think we're supposed to get our bunny. And he goes, yeah, I don't think we're supposed to anymore. And so just, you know, And I was like, okay, now I'm confused. And literally, like, a week or two passes. And he. I was working one day, and he texts me, and he goes, was, okay? Let's revisit this. We're supposed to get her a bunny. And then about 10 days later, we just surprised her, and it. It all worked out. It was a magical day, and it's been wonderful. And God is teaching me this lesson through, ironically, this fluffy Talking about senses, but fluffy, smelly bunny.
- [50:32]
Jenny Urchin
You know, there's some kid listening right now that's like, see, Mom, I'm supposed to eat bunny.
- [50:36]
Mark Astash
Exactly. Yeah.
- [50:37]
Jenny Urchin
And remember when I told you.
- [50:39]
Mark Astash
Yeah. Just to, like, put this in a little bit more, like, realistic context. We're not suggesting that you have to write your future into existence.
- [50:45]
Senya Astash
No.
- [50:46]
Mark Astash
But the problem is, is that the reason why we scroll so much is because we're just trying to cope with the emotions that we haven't addressed. So when you're trying to create a difference or a change of behavior or a new mindset or a space that you want to grow towards, it requires you to have a vision. The problem is, so many of us remain stuck in our dysfunction because we're not physically moving. We're not both walking and we're not writing. And those are two things that prime the pump for the heart to soften, for God to speak to it, to show you where he wants you to go. For those that are listening to this right now thinking, not only do I not journal, but I don't know where I'm going to be next week, let alone three years from now, take baby steps. I heard an incredible podcast yesterday on the power of dopamine, and they said that rats that are given food up front with a piece of cheese eat the dopamine, or, I'm sorry, eat the cheese. And dopamine's released. But when the researcher pulls the cheese away just a few inches and the rat doesn't move towards the cheese, not only does it not get the food, but it doesn't release dopamine. What is. What am I trying to say is that we need to move. There needs to be a challenge for us to pursue pleasure and pain that are both coming from your dopamine parts of the brain. So you need to move. And people are so stuck on their phones and stuck in their emotional stuff that they're not changing. So the walk forward journal saying, hey, just start walking. Walk 15 minutes a day. Start, you know, start, you know, rehearsing some of these things. Walk with a friend. Do your walking pages. And we've sprinkled in this idea of Write5.5 I am statements, five statements where you want to take your vision. I'm healed. And Hold. I have self worth. I have a new community that. That loves me for who I am, not who I was.
- [52:40]
Senya Astash
Healthy.
- [52:41]
Mark Astash
Yeah. You know, like, just starting to speak these things into existence.
- [52:45]
Jenny Urchin
Yeah. And the stories, like a bunny story is just a reminder that God cares about the little things. Like, I had a friend who would pray every day. What are the meals I'm supposed to serve today? And that type of thing. And that really stuck out to me. It actually changed me. I'm like, God cares about the little and the big. My verse for the year, that has come up so many times just because we are in a very odd spot right now with our life and a lot of upheaval. And just in general, like, life is tricky. You've got kids, you're making decisions. And it says in Isaiah, whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you saying, this is the way. Walk in it. And that's where we're meant. We're meant to be out walking a path and listening. And that might be a bunny, it might be something bigger, but God has a plan for you and a way for you to go. This has been absolutely wonderful. The book is called Courage to Connect, the Journal, the Walk Forward Journal. I'll make sure I include links. Very quick, we're going to wrap it up. What's a favorite memory from your childhood?
- [53:39]
Mark Astash
That was outside Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes with my three siblings attempting to run down in our matching outfits that my mom put us in before we went to a nice dinner. And we all went to dinner. Sandy and, you know, tired from going up and down the Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes.
- [53:56]
Senya Astash
And mine was the first one that comes to mind is about once. No, not once. A handful of times throughout the summer, my parents would put my sister in the car, my sister and I in the car and take us to my. I guess they're kind of like cousins house. And they had this beautiful pool and we would just swim all day long and play with our cousins and just eat outside. It just. It was just. I always felt so much joy and the sunshine. I can just feel it even talking about it and just the laughter and. And then they would always cook some really amazing Serbian meals.
- [54:32]
Jenny Urchin
So all the senses. All the senses and all that freedom. Mark and Sanya, what an honor to meet you. Tell Michael I said hello. Thank you so much for being here.
- [54:42]
Senya Astash
Thank you, Jenny.
- [54:48]
Mark Astash
Do you want to learn the Bible? In a way that's encouraging, surprising, and even entertaining.
- [54:53]
Jenny Urchin
Check out the Bible Stories podcast.
- [54:56]
Mark Astash
Each week, Bible Stories brings you classics.
- [54:58]
Jenny Urchin
You know, and hidden gems that you might have missed.
- [55:02]
Mark Astash
Have you ever heard about the time that King David fought a giant and he lost? Or when Paul preached so long a guy fell asleep he tumbled out a.
- [55:10]
Jenny Urchin
Window and had to be brought back to life? Did you know that God himself buried.
- [55:16]
Mark Astash
Moses and that Michael the Archangel and the devil fought over Moses body? Yeah, it gets wild. So tune in for storytelling that's biblical, insightful and a lot of fun. Subscribe today to Bible Stories with Matt Mullins and Todd Haymans, available wherever you get your podcasts.