1KHO 518: From Backyard Builds to Confidence-Building Lessons | Keith Phillips, Heartland Bunkies

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast - Episode 1KHO 518: From Backyard Builds to Confidence-Building Lessons | Keith Phillips, Heartland Bunkies

Release Date: July 5, 2025

In the inaugural episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, hosted by Jenny Urch of the 1000 Hours Outside Network, Jenny welcomes Keith Phillips from Heartland Bunkies. The conversation delves into the concept of "bunkies," their construction, multifaceted uses, and their profound impact on family dynamics and child development.

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1. Introduction to Heartland Bunkies

Jenny Urch opens the discussion by introducing Keith Phillips and his company, Heartland Bunkies.

Jenny Urch [01:25]: “I hadn't heard of a bunky, so I would love if you could tell our listeners like what that is and what your role is there.”

Keith Phillips [01:35]: “A bunky is basically a bunkhouse. It’s Canadian shorthand for a bunkhouse. Our company is out of Canada, and I’m trying to introduce the concept to the U.S. It’s not a shed, not a house, and not a tiny house, but a bunkhouse designed primarily to provide extra space for families, especially around lakeside cottages where extended family gatherings are common.”

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2. Understanding Bunkies: Purpose and Design

Keith elaborates on the unique attributes that differentiate bunkies from other structures.

Keith Phillips [02:43]: “They’re very easy to build, but it is still labor. It transforms work back into something that brings people together as a family, as opposed to just pulling the family apart.”

He compares the building process to that of Lincoln Logs or Legos, emphasizing the pre-cut and notched design that facilitates assembly.

Jenny Urch [03:17]: “What do you relate it to?”

Keith Phillips [03:20]: “Legos is often said to be the most accurate, but Lincoln Logs are even closer. The kits come pre-cut and labeled, making the assembly straightforward.”

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3. Building Process: Tools and Family Involvement

Keith discusses the practical aspects of constructing a bunky, highlighting the minimal use of tools and the ease of involving family members.

Keith Phillips [05:22]: “You only use a saw once during the process, when you make a longitudinal cut to fit the last floorboard.”

Jenny Urch [05:55]: “Like a level, a hammer, a ladder.”

Keith Phillips [05:58]: “Yes, a drill or an impact driver. Having multiple tools like impact drivers and ladders speeds up the process. Typically, four people are ideal for building.”

The building process is not just about constructing a physical space but also about fostering teamwork and skill development among family members.

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4. Multifaceted Uses of Bunkies

The versatility of bunkies is a central theme, with various applications beyond just being guest houses.

Keith Phillips [07:25]: “They can be used as home offices, gyms, yoga studios, homeschool rooms—basically anything you can think of.”

Jenny Urch [07:34]: “I was thinking about having a podcast studio outside. It would be perfect to have in-person guests visit and record podcasts in a dedicated space.”

Keith shares his personal experience of converting bunkies into Airbnbs, providing substantial income and opportunities for entrepreneurial ventures.

Keith Phillips [06:30]: “Doing one of these as an Airbnb can cost under $30,000 and potentially make over $20,000 a year, which is a significant return on investment.”

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5. Impact on Family and Child Development

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the benefits of building bunkies as a family project, especially for children's growth.

Keith Phillips [14:10]: “Developing physical skills through building projects fosters competence, which breeds confidence in children. It gives them a sense of purpose and teaches them the value of hard work.”

He references James K.A. Smith's concept of “family cultural liturgies,” where regular family activities instill values and life skills without overt instruction.

Keith Phillips [15:35]: “Building a bunky is a family cultural liturgy. It doesn't dictate specific doctrines but teaches valuable life lessons through action and participation.”

This hands-on experience contrasts with consumer-driven leisure, promoting meaningful engagement and self-sufficiency among children.

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6. Short-Term Rentals: Creating Memorable Experiences

Keith shares insights on running bunkies as short-term rentals, emphasizing the importance of setting the right expectations and enhancing guest experiences.

Keith Phillips [39:04]: “Make it an experience. Document everything from the building process and build anticipation before launch.”

He offers practical tips for managing initial bookings and garnering positive reviews to establish a strong reputation.

Keith Phillips [41:54]: “Start by documenting your build on social media to build a following. Open bookings two months in advance to secure initial reservations before any guests stay.”

Keith stresses the need for thoughtful amenities that reflect the local culture, such as providing homemade maple syrup and freshly roasted coffee to guests, thereby enriching their stay.

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7. Navigating Permits and Technicalities

The conversation touches on the regulatory aspects of constructing and operating bunkies, particularly the differences between Canadian and U.S. permitting.

Keith Phillips [30:35]: “Our bunkies are named based on their square footage, aligning with Canadian permit exemptions. In the U.S., regulations vary, and in some rural areas like mine in Franklin, Tennessee, permitting can be more lenient.”

He advises potential builders to consult local regulations and utilize professional drawings to facilitate the permitting process.

Keith Phillips [34:06]: “Bring in our spec sheets and engineer-stamped drawings to navigate local permits more effectively.”

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8. Personalizing and Decorating Bunkies

While Keith admits that decoration isn't his forte, he underscores the flexibility bunkies offer for individual creativity.

Keith Phillips [23:29]: “We’ve tried a little bit. We don’t have a decorator, and it doesn’t seem to matter to us as much.”

However, he acknowledges the potential for personalization, especially involving children, to make the space reflect the family's unique style and needs.

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9. Keith’s Personal Journey and Experiences

Keith shares his personal background, including his first foray into short-term rentals and how economic shifts influenced his path.

Keith Phillips [45:25]: “The short-term rental experience was significant after losing a long-term renter due to economic changes post-sequestration in Congress.”

His tenure managing rentals provided valuable insights and reinforced his preference for short-term over long-term rentals due to better financial returns and maintained property condition.

Keith Phillips [45:56]: “Short-term rentals offer higher income and better upkeep since professional cleaners maintain the property regularly.”

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10. Final Reflections: Childhood Memories and Values

In closing, Jenny invites Keith to share his favorite childhood memories, reinforcing the podcast’s theme of valuing and reclaiming time spent outdoors.

Jenny Urch [51:40]: “What’s a favorite memory from your childhood that's outside.”

Keith Phillips [51:53]: “Every day I was outside, cutting trees, building forts, having wars with neighborhood kids. It was an amazing way to grow up—riding bikes through trails, embracing the outdoors.”

He also shares an inside memory that highlights the importance of mentorship and skill-building from a young age.

Keith Phillips [53:20]: “When I helped my dad with his music equipment as a child, it instilled a sense of responsibility and skill that continues to benefit me today.”

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Key Takeaways

• Bunkies serve as versatile structures that foster family bonding, skill development, and provide additional income through avenues like Airbnb.
• The building process is designed to be accessible, promoting teamwork and confidence, especially among children.
• Short-term rentals require careful planning, setting clear expectations, and creating enriching guest experiences to ensure success.
• Permitting regulations vary by region, necessitating thorough research and professional guidance during construction.
• Engaging in outdoor projects like building a bunky can significantly impact family dynamics and children's personal growth, aligning with the podcast's mission to reclaim childhood hours outside.

Notable Quotes:

• Keith Phillips [14:10]: “Developing physical skills through building projects fosters competence, which breeds confidence in children.”
• Keith Phillips [15:35]: “Building a bunky is a family cultural liturgy. It doesn't dictate specific doctrines but teaches valuable life lessons through action and participation.”
• Keith Phillips [41:54]: “Start by documenting your build on social media to build a following. Open bookings two months in advance to secure initial reservations before any guests stay.”
• Jenny Urch [51:40]: “What’s a favorite memory from your childhood that's outside.”
• Keith Phillips [51:53]: “Every day I was outside, cutting trees, building forts, having wars with neighborhood kids. It was an amazing way to grow up—riding bikes through trails, embracing the outdoors.”

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This episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast underscores the profound benefits of engaging in outdoor, collaborative projects, emphasizing how such endeavors can enrich family life, nurture children's development, and create sustainable income opportunities.

Transcript

[Ginny Urch]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages.

[Keith Phillips]

Whether it's a voice call message or.

[Ginny Urch]

Sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password.

[Jenny Urch]

In the family chat or trading those.

[Ginny Urch]

Late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay.

[Keith Phillips]

Between you, your friends and your family.

[Ginny Urch]

No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Jenny Urch]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch, I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have a really unique and interesting guest today. Keith Phillips from Funky Life. Welcome.

[Keith Phillips]

Hey, good to be on the show Bunky Life.

[Jenny Urch]

All right, this is neat. I never even heard of this. And I'm going to give the website right off the bat so people can find it if they're interested. It's called Heartland Bunkies. And then you're also on Instagram at Bunky Life, Heartland. And I'll put those links in the show Notes. I guess I'd never really heard of these. I, you know where we're at and we're in Michigan. Sometimes we drive past different Amish built, that seems to be the thing, like little cabins or little greenhouse type rooms and things that you could add to your property. And they're pre built and they just deliver them. I hadn't heard of a bunky, so I would love if you could tell our listeners like what that is and what your role is there.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah, so a bunky is basically just, it's a bunkhouse. It's Canadian shorthand for a bunkhouse. Our company is out of Canada, I'm in the US and I'm trying to introduce the concept. And a bunky is not a shed and it's not a house and it's not a tiny house. But it could be any of those things. But really it's a bunk house. So like in Ontario, a lot of people have these lakeside cottages. It's kind of like Minnesota or Michigan, lots of lakes. And what happens is when they have, they have kids, those kids have kids and then pretty soon there's not enough room for everybody. So instead of adding onto the cottage, which if you've looked into the price of a Home Edition recently, it's really, really expensive. You just put up a bunky so that you've got the extra space to be together, to have more people there. And not only do you get to bond once it's built and you can be around each other, but you can be, you can be together and Bond as you're building it. They're very easy to build, but it is still a labor. So it is work, which is a really big deal for me as far as like transforming work back into something that brings people together as a family as opposed to just pulling the family apart. Where dad goes one way, mom goes one way, the kids go there, there, and there's. And we just come back together to watch tv. And so I think it really overlaps with what you're doing as far as that's concerned.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, I mean, I would think if I look back at our life, there's not much. I mean, we haven't done this. Like there isn't really any memories, substantial memories that I can think of, where our whole family has been involved in a project together. And so that's what really stuck out to me. You watched the videos of these being put together and everyone can pretty much join in. I mean, I'm sure not your little baby toddler, but. And then they'll decorate. They try that? Yeah, they try. Okay, so tell us then how does. There's all sorts of different models of them, but it's almost like, I mean, Legos. What, what do you relate it to?

[Keith Phillips]

Legos is. Is often said, I think the most accurate would be Lincoln Logs. The kits come basically like a pallet, a palletized kind of bundle of lumber wrapped in tarps and so forth. And you rip it open and you've got a gazillion boards or logs as we like to call them, that are already pre cut and notched to go together in a certain way. They're all labeled so you know exactly what each piece is. We built our Haven Ultra, which is a 220 square foot, two story or lofted bunky. And it's beautiful by the way, if you go check out the Haven Ultra at the website or on any of the social media, we built that basic structure in two days. Wow.

[Jenny Urch]

Wow.

[Keith Phillips]

And that was really four people is the perfect number. Anything more than four is excess. Less than four, you'll lose a little bit of speed. Three is totally doable. Two is doable, but slow. But it's enough work. And particularly in the unpacking, everybody's involved, everybody's excited at that point. And that's how kids are. Like when you're working with your kids, they are super excited at first. They're super involved and then they kind of wane and they start doing their own thing, which is totally okay because they're kids. And that's kind of how it Goes, we're unpacking, there's enough pieces for everybody to grab. And my five year old, my six year old are all over it. And then as the day goes on, you know, my, my 9 year old, my 11 year old, I have six kids by the way. Maybe the 13 year old, maybe the 16 year old, they're all involved in greater or lesser degrees as the day goes on and they've gotten very competent at it. Yeah, it's, it's just a super, it's a super good way for them to help out and they're very simple. The foundation is kind of creative because like I don't know what your land is and how you want to do the foundation. It could be just gravel with some six by sixes laid on it. It could be a slab, it could be like an elevated deck platform. It's whatever you want it to be. But then once you're actually working with the kit itself, it's super simple. You use a saw once on the single levels and twice on the two level models. Because you've got to rip the last floorboard. And that's the only time you use a saw. Other than that, it's just put them together, whack them together.

[Jenny Urch]

What does that mean? Rip the last floorboard rip.

[Keith Phillips]

So it's like a longitudinal cut. So if you think of a long, say it's a, it's a 10 foot piece of floor that's, you know, roughly five inches wide. It's tongue and groove.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh.

[Keith Phillips]

The whole. When you get to the end, it's not going to fit. Right. So you make a longitudinal cut to make that skinnier. Maybe only two and a half, three inches.

[Ginny Urch]

I see.

[Keith Phillips]

So that that last piece will fit. And that's the only time you use a saw during the process. You can use a circular saw, you can use a table saw.

[Jenny Urch]

Wow. So it's, it's mainly I saw a thing where it was like, what tools do you need? And the tools were fairly normal.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

Like a level, a hammer, a ladder.

[Keith Phillips]

Yep. A drill or an impact driver. I definitely recommend impact driver over drill. They just work really well. If you can have two impact drivers, two hammers and four ladders, you're in business. You can do it with just two ladders, but you're moving the ladder so much you save a lot of time and effort to just have four step ladders. So borrow all your friends step ladders when you're building one of these. Yeah. The thing we've done with it is we've made an Airbnb. So because we've got that extra income, we actually already had an Airbnb. We're out, way out in the country. We're on 52 acres up to a. Next to a national forest. There is some tourism. And so we already had a cabin that we built, but it took like over six months and over $60,000 that was doing it ourselves. And so this one we kind of, you know, with these. Airbnb. Doing one of these in Airbnb, you can really shoot to be under $30,000 all in and then still making over $20,000 a year, which is a huge return on investment. And for us, having two of those cabins has meant that I get to take entrepreneurial risk and come do something like Bunky life Heartland, where the kids are involved in everything. And so we are always working together, you know, until the kids tire of the work and then they go back to playing. But it's usually outside.

[Jenny Urch]

I love that. That makes more sense too because then that's how you've been able to. Like when you said they've gotten really good at it.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

Your mind's kind of like, well how. But you've been able to.

[Keith Phillips]

They've done it.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. Do a lot with it and use it as an Airbnb. What are some other ways that people use them?

[Keith Phillips]

Home office, gym, yoga studio. Homeschool room is very popular, basically anything you can think of. But really the, the primary purpose they were designed for is a. It's a bunk house. It's a place to put some bunk beds or some beds for out of town guests, the grandkids, the grandparents, the cousins, friends, whoever. And in Canada they would usually think of them as two or three season usage and they wouldn't bother to do any insulation. They wouldn't bother to do any H Vac. It would just be when it's warm enough to do it. And if it's so cold that they need to heat it, then maybe just run an extension cord out there with a space heater. In the States, I think we have the mentality that we need to go full bore with it right from the get go. And depending on your climate that might be so like in Michigan you can treat it like Ontario. It's the same climate further south like I am. You know, it's not really very usable in the summertime unless you've got air conditioning. So I've got many split H Vac in mine. I've also got insulation above it and below it, which is really easy and cheap to add. But yeah, it's a bunk house, a place for people to sleep so that they can be at your house without, you know, inconveniencing you or feeling like they're a burden. And the way that David and Carrie got into it was that Carrie was having some serious health issues and her parents needed to be there and they had a two bedroom house with three kids. So they ended up building one of these so that her parents could, could have a convenient place to stay. And when it was too cold, David literally just ran an extension cord with a space heater. And those smaller ones, you know, are only, you know, $5,000, five or $6,000 for the small ones. And that's big enough for a queen bed and a chest of drawers that kind of things enough for somebody to have a bedroom essentially like a 9x11.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Keith Phillips]

So that was the whole purpose is so that people could be there for each other in that time of need.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, they're really cool. I mean, I was not expecting, like, if you. I. The one I. That really did catch my eye was the one that you have, which is that. What did you call it? The Haven.

[Keith Phillips]

Haven Ultra.

[Jenny Urch]

Haven Ultra. And I mean, it's gorgeous in there.

[Keith Phillips]

It is.

[Jenny Urch]

And the options, you know, it's like it could just be a place with beds or, you know, depending on if you wanted to add electrical or different types of things, or a composting toilet. There's a lot of different ways that you can go with it. And I saw that you could also even add like room dividers or you could have a bed that folds up like a Murphy type style bed. So a lot of different options in there. And the decoration I thought was just, I mean. Oh, it's beautiful. I was thinking about it from the context of now we're out sort of in the country, and it wouldn't really work for where we're at, but I went and recorded a podcast in someone's home when we were visiting in Tennessee last year. And so it was like in the Franklin area. And I went into this woman's home and then she had a podcast studio in the basement. But I was thinking, gosh, if we lived in a highly trafficked area and people could come and do in person podcasts.

[Keith Phillips]

There's your podcast studio.

[Jenny Urch]

Yes. I mean, it would be so perfect. And I love that there's so many different options. Tell us where your path intersected. It was. Was it the Airbnb was where you were looking for something like this? And so then that's how you Found bunky life.

[Keith Phillips]

I was. So we had already built our initial cabin, and it's a stick built cabin. Crazy story about the guy that. The guy that helped us build that. But he lived with us for nine months and he knew what he was doing at every step of the way. Like, he had worked for a home builder for about 10 years and it was just so easy for him. It was just. It just. It just came naturally. There were no blueprints or anything. And we have this beautiful sort of Appalachian style lofted cabin now. But it still took a long time. It took a lot of money. So I was always looking for what the other option was. And the other option seemed to be a prefab shed converted into a tiny house. But something always just stopped me from doing it. I don't know if it was the aesthetic of it looking like a shed and being very obvious, you know, obviously, so. But then I was actually just looking at some different business or doing some different business, networking things, and ran into David and he told. And he showed me what he was doing and I was like, well, I want one of your products whether I work with you on anything or not, you know, because this just makes so much sense for me. Yeah, our price does. By the time you finish everything out, it ends up coming in below a converted shed. And actually just talked to someone at the big Homestead festival an hour or two south of Franklin actually, that had done the converted shed, and they were very disappointed in it. Hmm. So they had the details as to why. I can't give you the personal reasons as to why, but. But they. They didn't like it. But this has worked out great for us. And that's. So. Yeah, that was how I. I got roped into it. I. There is. There is a group of guys, though. They already had a really successful YouTube channel and they're. They're working with Bunky Life now. I'll have to. I have to show you the link for them, but they. They have three or four guys doing like, media production in a Rockwood 160.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, wow.

[Keith Phillips]

So. And it's in Michigan. And so they've got like four, you know, really nice media production suites, desks with all the, you know, with their big screens and everything that are all in one Rockwood 160. And it looks really cool. And they, you know, they did an episode on them. Building it and stuff is neat.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. I mean, it's a thing because these days with so many people working from home. And I remember when Covid happened and then all Of a sudden, people were working from home and people would say, well, our home is not built for this type of work. There's not two offices. There might not even be one office. You know, there's not the, the setup there for that. And it's interesting to think through all of the different ways that something like this could be used. I mean, it could pull, you know, for instance, our podcast takes up one room of our home and it could pull it out of the home and then into something else. Or like you said, for when people are coming to work to visit, talk to us about. I mean, I thought what. One of the things that really was intriguing to me was having this large family project. And you hear about it every once in a while, like, we're a homeschooling family. And so every once in a while, like, I talked to this woman named Samantha and they live off grid in Canada and they're in a tiny home. She's got six kids and they are adding on, they're adding on to their tiny home. It's a long term project. It's like a three year thing. And her kids are helping, but her husband is a home builder and so he already knows what to do and he's got the skill set. And so when you hear stories like that, you think, oh, it would be really cool for our family to do some bigger project such as that. But we have zero percent of the skillset to do that. We have no knowledge. What are some of the values of doing a larger work project like that with your kids?

[Keith Phillips]

Oh, man. So I'm actually using my phone for this, so I can't go back to my notes on your book, but I just read your book and, and the development of physical skills is huge. But when you actually develop physical skills, it's called competence. Right. Competence breeds confidence and it changes the way children interact with the world when they are confident. We are constantly telling children, you're such a good little boy, you're such a good little girl, but at the same time not letting them do anything. And so eventually they kind of figure out that, like this is. These are empty words, they don't mean anything. But if they can do something, if they can help mom and dad with this project where they see the results and, and pretty quickly, not so quickly that it's like instant gratification. You know, they're putting the sweat into, you know, each, as each log goes up, they're putting that in there. But it, it brings them to a point where they see themselves not just as A worthless consumer. But as a producer that can help out their family, they can help out society. It really changes their view on life, gives them purpose.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. That's another thing that you talk about is consumerism. This process, you say it, it helps them to combat consumerism.

[Keith Phillips]

Yes.

[Jenny Urch]

Which is interesting because I think most parents would say, I would love to combat consumerism. How does the bunky build? How does it help to combat consumerism?

[Keith Phillips]

So the bunky build is what I would call a. And I'm ripping this term off of a guy named James K.A. smith, who wrote a. He wrote a. A series of very academic books called the Cultural Liturgies Series. Building a bunky as a family is a family cultural liturgy. It doesn't tell you doctrinally like, this is what people are for. This is what you should be doing. This is good, this is bad, this is beautiful, this is ugly. You're just doing something, but you're doing it actually teaches you a lot. If I work overtime, so I'm at home less. And when I am at home, we watch the Disney Channel together, and I work that overtime to save up enough money to go to Disney World and spend a week or two down in Florida being entertained. I could never tell my kids anything about the origin of man, spirituality, our ultimate goal, what is fulfilling, what is the good life. But by my actions, I've told them what the good life is. Work is a means to an end. And our ultimate end is to go have a good time and be entertained and consume. Yeah. But if instead I do something like a big family project of building a bunky, and then we put it on Airbnb, and then we have guests from all over the world that come and visit the Airbnb. Most of them don't want to talk to us. Most of them are just going to be guests. But occasionally you're into these people that are very interesting, you might end up interviewing them for your podcast, which I am. My wife and I are launching a podcast soon and we just did our interview with somebody that we just met who had an awesome story. And so we did the interview with her up there at the bunky. She was staying in. If all of those things, all of a sudden, their idea of what the good life is is completely different. And they're doing so many small tasks in the process that are end up having to be self directed that they're developing, you know, like I said, those skills of competence and leadership that are going to be huge down the road. But it's a liturgy of life. And who's the other guy? Justin Whitmol.

[Jenny Urch]

Early.

[Keith Phillips]

Justin Whitmill early, yes. So he's got those, like those family liturgies, your daily liturgy kind of thing. And it's like, if you do this, it sets your mind in a different place. If the thing that is hard scheduled in your day is that time of prayer or meditation in the morning and in the evening or whatever, or that family time together. For us, we do a family devotion every night. And if we don't do it, by the way, my kids will be like, hey, dad, what are you doing? Why are you on your phone? You know, because. And they will judge me. They're very judgmental if I, if I spend much time on the phone. But, you know, doing those things like that teaches them something. Conversely, you can teach them everything you want to teach them verbally. That, like, this is the way you're supposed to live. This is what you're supposed to think. You know, you're, let's say you're supposed to value people, you're supposed to value hard work, yada, yada, yada. But you live like most of the world lives, which is consumer culture. You undermine everything you said.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, it's really interesting I mean, to take a week long project or even a weekend. It could be a weekend project. And to have it be so meaningful in your family culture and in your family life.

[Ginny Urch]

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[Jenny Urch]

And.

[Ginny Urch]

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[Jenny Urch]

I loved. One of the things that was interesting to me was I would imagine that the, the decorating and the interior part would be really fun for certain personalities. And so what it seemed to me is that if you build one, and I liked looking at the different ones that were online because they're all decorated a little bit different or they're painted.

[Ginny Urch]

A little bit different.

[Jenny Urch]

It gives you a spot to embed your creativity, but it's not. And maybe give it a chance for your children to embed their creativity where it's not in your main home. There's a little bit, I think, a little bit more of, like, leeway there. And also because it's a smaller space, you're not quite concerned about, well, what if we mess this up or we have to paint over it?

[Keith Phillips]

Exactly.

[Jenny Urch]

So in your family, who, who's done, who takes on what roles?

[Keith Phillips]

So this is where I have to confess that we have not done a really good job of decorating. I mean, we've, we've tried a little bit. We don't have a decorator.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, that's interesting. So that doesn't really matter. That doesn't seem to matter.

[Keith Phillips]

It doesn't seem to matter to us as much. I've actually. Okay, so you know this from your experience being a social Media personality, that one out of every 10,000 people is a jerk to a level that you don't see every day. Right. One every 100,000 people is a even bigger jerk and so forth. And so they'll say really mean things as though you're not a real person. Right, right. The little things that happen to me are like, somebody says, this is disappointingly bland, the interior, or something like that. Somebody actually commented and said that on my. For my particular. Or my personal. Our personal Haven Ultra. And I was like, I kind of just responded like, well, yeah, we're not very good at that. Are you an interior decorator? Would you like to help? And they're like, I am. But they didn't, they didn't volunteer to help.

[Jenny Urch]

No offers.

[Keith Phillips]

No offers. No offers at all. My 13 year old daughter probably has the potential. She's a bit too consumed with just between like school and training horses, because that's one of the other things we do to spend much time in it. She likes to garden. She likes to arrange flowers. Our homeschool. We have like a county homeschool thing that gets together every now and then for field trips. And they. They had a florist, A florist in our county did a. An arrangement class. And my wife took a picture of the. Or, you know, they all stood together for a picture. At the end of it, my wife showed me the picture and she's like, if you didn't look at the faces, you could figure out which one is Gracie's. And it was just heads and shoulders above the rest. She just nailed it. She just gets it. You know, like you say, there's people that just get that. I am not one of those people. I am the anti that person.

[Jenny Urch]

You're the one that's like. That one looks a little bland.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah, well, yeah, it does. I don't know what to do about it, though. You want to help me? You know? Well, we've got friends. If you see the one that we just did recently, the cabana that's. I've got my coffee roast. My coffee roaster up and operational in it. You're noticing all of these little entrepreneurial endeavors come out as I talk. But I've got my. My new small micro roaster. It does £6 at a time. So it's a. It's commercial, but it's still small up in that cabana that is dark green with black trim. And it's got these big windows that open up like. Like a serving window. And it's got a.

[Jenny Urch]

So is that one on your property, too?

[Keith Phillips]

It is, yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

How many do you have?

[Keith Phillips]

Three, if you include. This is the Haven Ultra with the outhouse beside it, which is the bathroom Bunkie or the bunky Bathroom kit.

[Jenny Urch]

Yep.

[Keith Phillips]

And then we've got the cabana and we're actually. We've got another one inbound in a couple of weeks that is going to be the biggest one ever built.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, wow.

[Keith Phillips]

And it's going to be about 389 square feet. It's a lofted version, a full loft version of the Hideaway 199. And a friend of ours is going to live in that one up by our barn and kind of help take. Kind of help us with our more agricultural type endeavors and have a place to live for really, really cheap. And it's going to Be an opportunity to make content and get that one built and get it on the website and show people what it is.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, it's so cool. Wow. There's. Okay, so let's talk about that real quick. There's a lot of different options here. So there's bunkies with lofts, bunkies without lofts. And then additionally, you talked about the bathroom one and even saunas.

[Keith Phillips]

Yes. And I need to get saunas on our website. That is on my list of things to do. And before I forget the point, with that, that. That dark green, the cabana, the dark green with the black trim, we asked other people, how should we paint this thing? You know, we talked. We got a friend down in Georgia that's an excellent decorator, and. And we listened to her, and that's why that looks as good as it does. But, yes, there's a lot of different things. The cabana is a great poolside bar. It comes with that bar that's on the front, that serving bar. It's really neat. The. The Rockwood is a great pool house. Just a place to, you know, do all the. For all the things you need a pool house for. But it's. It's good to sit in there. And because it has all the windows and the natural light. It's not my favorite from the outside because it is more of a modern look and I just have a more traditionalist aesthetic. But it's my favorite one to stand in. It's my favorite one to be in because it's just beautiful inside.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, I love that. It gives the opportunity for different types of skill sets to join in. And. And then also there's so many varieties of ways that you can use it because you also talked about even, like a market kiosk. So I know a lot of people are interested in having, like, along the road, maybe they live in a farm and they want to have a little stand out by the road to sell their things. So that seemed like that was a great idea as well. Walk us through the loft ones, because obviously that opens up your square footage of a bunky with a loft.

[Keith Phillips]

Right.

[Jenny Urch]

Do most people just put the beds up top then, and then use the bottom for a little bit more living space?

[Keith Phillips]

Correct. That's generally how it happens. So we'll go with the lofted. I was going to walk through the lofted version, the 2018 Bunky with Loft, which we've tried to rename. For some reason, it hasn't gotten renamed yet. We've been able to rename another one, but it is the smallest lofted version. It's beautiful, but it's basically big enough for a couple of twin beds upstairs or I say upstairs in the loft. And it's for kids, I mean, or adults that are okay, you know, just being. Just having no headspace. You can sit up in it, but that's about it.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay.

[Keith Phillips]

It's not a very big loft. The next one up would be the Weekender. And it's bigger, it's a much more substantial kit.

[Jenny Urch]

That's a cool name. I like that name. The Weekender.

[Keith Phillips]

It's really good, uh, it's a really good kit. It's about 9 by 11 or a little more than 9 by 11 downstairs. It's, it's, it's just over a hundred square feet downstairs. And then there's another, I believe it's about 52 or 60 upstairs. And you've got a little more headspace, you got a little more width than the 2018. And it's, it's just a, it's a very solid little cabin. Then you jump up to the Haven and the Haven Ultra. The only difference in the Haven and the Haven Ultra is that one is a half loft and one's a full loft. So it depends on what you're using it for. If it is an Airbnb, the half loft is probably great because it's got the half loft inside, which gives you the balcony. It gives you this very tall ceiling and it just looks really good. The Haven Ultra takes up all that space with floor, which if you're going to do more than Airbnb it, or for some reason you just like that and you want that space upstairs. Then the Haven Ultra is the way to go. It's more square footage. It's 220 square feet between. Between up and downstairs. Then we've got, and this is, this is the nomenclature gets kind of tricky here. We have the, the Hideaway and the Rockwood 159 was. It's a Hideaway 159, a Rockwood 160. And then we have, we have those as single level and then we have them as half loft and full loft versions.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay.

[Keith Phillips]

And we're what we are coming out with. There's already the single level Roll Rockwood and Hideaway 199s. So they're really 199.6 square feet. And that's for Canadian permitting reasons. You can pretty much build what we have, what we have without a permit almost anywhere in Canada. But in the, in the U.S. you know, you step 10ft. And it changes, you know, whether you're allowed to do it with a permit at all.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay.

[Keith Phillips]

No permit. Do what you want. Right.

[Jenny Urch]

Those numbers make a lot more sense, though. I didn't realize that the numbers had to do with the square feet.

[Keith Phillips]

Exactly. They have to do the square feet. And they. And the reason they are. What they are is because of certain restrictions in Canada, which has a fairly uniform permitting process in terms of what's exempted. And most of our stuff is exempted. The bigger stuff we're building now is probably not exempted a lot of places in Canada. But we're trying to address the US Market. Of course, as Americans, we want everything bigger. And so we're getting now half loft and full loft versions of the Hideaway 199 and the Rockwood 199.

[Jenny Urch]

And 199 stands for the square feet. So you got 200 square feet.

[Keith Phillips]

Right.

[Jenny Urch]

And then adding in a loft.

[Keith Phillips]

Exactly. So you're almost doubling it. You're doubling it minus the space that it takes to put the ladder in. Have a place to get upstairs to crawl through the. Through the floor onto the second story. And the height of the kits is also predicated on Canadian permit exemptions. And so, like on my Haven Ultra, what I wish I would have done was added extra courses of logs upstairs to make it taller.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh.

[Keith Phillips]

But we weren't really, like, nobody in Canada was thinking about that because people in Canada don't do it because their whole thing is like, avoid the permitting process. Right, right. And it was just short enough to avoid the permitting process the way it is. That's why it is what it is. But where I live, I don't need a. I need a permit, but it's paying 27 and then never talking to the government again. They don't care what I do. I can do literally anything in my county. There are no code enforcers, There are no inspectors.

[Jenny Urch]

Wow, is that rare?

[Keith Phillips]

It's not where I live.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay.

[Keith Phillips]

But if you go. Yeah, you go a little ways, and we're very rural, let's put it that way.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay.

[Keith Phillips]

The Nashville area, you're not going to see that. For instance, in the, you know, in the metro in Franklin, Tennessee, there's a guy in Franklin, Tennessee that really wants to buy a couple. Uh, but that county. Kind of difficult.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay. Different restrictions.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah, it's different restrictions everywhere, and kind of depends on what you want to do with it. He could do it if he didn't hook up water, but as soon as he hooks up water, he needs a full septic and all this stuff. And they would not let him use a composting toilet if it had running water.

[Jenny Urch]

Hmm.

[Keith Phillips]

Stuff like that.

[Jenny Urch]

So I did remember seeing somewhere on the website that was like, okay, if you're having to, if you're having trouble with permitting that. One of the pieces of advice was to make sure that they know that there's no, there's no plumbing.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah. If that there, there's often exemptions. Basically they're going to call anything a shed and if a person happens to sleep in it, so be it. But they, yeah, as soon as you put water in it, that throws the red flags up. At some places at the same time, if you go in and say, here's what I want to do, how can I do it? And bring in our spec sheets, which are just basically blueprints, drawings that are nice and professional and neat and clean, then they're probably pretty likely to help you. We also have engineer stamp drawings for all of our lofted models. So those help too.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Keith Phillips]

We have to sell those for a little bit because they're really expensive to get for us. But that's impressive when somebody can come in with that kind of material and say, well, this is what I want to do. I'm not just throwing something together. Which brings up that we do have snow load ratings. So you're covered in Michigan.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Ginny Urch]

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[Jenny Urch]

Want to try it?

[Ginny Urch]

The answer should be yes because 1000 hours outside listeners get 25 off with code 1000 [e-mail] that's s a l l y-e a n d e-r.com and use code 1000 hours when you hear.

[Keith Phillips]

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[Ginny Urch]

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[Jenny Urch]

So how do the Airbnb guests and even just like from stories that you've heard. So okay, your mother in law is coming in, you've got this bunkie now where she's gonna have her own space or you've got this Airbnb on your property now I know you're in a spot that's near a desirable location so people I think are a little more apt to go there. How do they respond to not having a bathroom or running water?

[Keith Phillips]

So mine has a composting toilet and they've got water. But you know the other places that do like a full off grid experience, they're advertising it as such and there are people that want to do that. And if that's upfront, you're going to get a different clientele. Frankly, you're going to get a better clientele because that's going to be an adventurous, typically younger, but not necessarily, but an adventurous clientele who are not picky, who understand they're going to the countryside and they're good to have. Are you going to get as much money out of it per night as if you go fully on grid? No. But you might be in for 40% less money too, which makes a big difference. One of the things that I would love to see people do. And I've helped one person build one for this purpose is for on farm stays. Oh at their homestead, their biodynamic, organic, diverse, sustainable agricultural institution of choice. And that can make the difference between being able to quit your day job and not and go full time into milking the cow and making cheese and running beef cattle and goats and gardening and all the things you want to do on, on the little homestead. Because people are willing to pay a pretty good premium for that experience. So that's, that's one way. We have had a couple of people. It's, it's polarized. Say it this way, it's polarizing. My listing says tiny cabin in the title and I've actually had someone say it's smaller than I thought it would be, you know, and I don't think I've had anything less than a three star rating. And the number of less than five stars I can count on one hand. But when you're first getting started, that's, that's detrimental. I could give somebody hours of consultation on how you should or shouldn't do a short term rental and launching it and all that kind of stuff. But generally we've had very, very good reviews. But it is a bit polarizing. There's just people that come with the wrong view of what it's supposed to be.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, it's about having about the expectations, like what do they think it's going to be? Give us a tip or two about short term rentals.

[Keith Phillips]

Okay. Make it an experience. Two of the ways we have made it an experience for our, for our guests. The first cabin we call Maple Ridge. It's surrounded by maple trees and we do tap them and we make maple syrup. And a lot of that maple syrup goes into tiny little vials that come in hundred packs and we fill up one or 200 of them at a time and keep them in the fridge. And then when we go to reset the, the cabin, we give where we put one little vial for each guest that's going to be staying. Usually it's two. Because our area, it's national forest, there's hiking, there's vineyards as well. So it's usually romantic getaways. So it's usually a couple. We're usually putting two of those in there. So it's like, here's some maple syrup made from the trees around the cabin. We're glad you're here. Also, we roast coffee. So we stock the cabins with some coffee enough for them for their drinking while they're here already ground and ready to go with a French press to try our coffee. And hey, this is coffee we roasted here as well. And they love the coffee because it's amazing.

[Jenny Urch]

Right?

[Keith Phillips]

Because how often does anybody get coffee that was roasted less than two weeks ago?

[Jenny Urch]

Wow.

[Keith Phillips]

If you're buying it from the store, you never get that. Right. Right. So they love that. We've had some friends down the road who are very productive people and they like to, they've got a huge, they usually get a huge garden and stuff like that. They're always doing something and they've really started making jams and jellies. So in the bunky now, we're giving everybody a little four ounce container of one of their jams. So we're going to try to like kind of change it with the seasons and tell people, hey, come back next year, it'll be a different one, you know. Yeah. So we've done blueberry, they've done clover jelly with, made from the flowers of clovers. So I've got some white clover jelly and some red clover jelly, things like that. That's a really good thing to do. The other thing that I would say is huge is build up the anticipation to the launch of your short term rental. If you're building it yourself, document everything. Right. So you know this from doing social media stuff, right. You're going to have your Insta or your Tick tock and Facebook and all the above that you want to be putting content on. Start with your friends, let them share it and hopefully you just get some good organic, you know, viewership off of it. And so if you're doing that for three, four, five months of hey, this is the spot we picked out who we're gonna put the, you know, the off grid cabin for Airbnb or whatever, the Farm Stay Cabin and know video today of us using the tractor to, to smooth that land down, doing the foundation, receiving the kit, all of building the kit, getting the decorations, all of those things. You, you probably have, you know, a six month minimum lead time from ideation to done. Right?

[Jenny Urch]

Right.

[Keith Phillips]

And that's enough time that you could build up a few thousand followers and people that are interested in you and people that are interested maybe in vacationing in that area and then you start your Airbnb, VRBO and whatever kind of direct booking. I recommend people to definitely set up direct booking and when you launch it, you launch it before you're actually ready. But with the dates open say two months down the road and so people can start booking maybe Two or three months down the road, people can start booking before your launch. So hopefully by the time you launch, if you do a really good job with that, the first two months are booked solid at really good rates and nobody's actually stayed in it yet.

[Jenny Urch]

Wow.

[Keith Phillips]

This is good, obviously because of just the money and the occupancy rate. But it's also good because if that first person or second person or third person you get in there is a person who did not understand what they were getting into and leaves you less than a five star review. And less than a five star review is bad. Like if you're not, if you're not 4.9 or above, it's, it's, it's, it's problematic.

[Jenny Urch]

Right, I get that with book sales too.

[Keith Phillips]

Exactly. So it doesn't take a lot of three star reviews to bring you below a 4.9.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Keith Phillips]

You know, when you don't have that many reviews. Well, it's hard to get people to book if the last review was a three star. But if your first two months is already booked up, you're set. Because by the time you're done with that two months, you're going to have more of the people that you should be having. They're going to offset that one person that you really shouldn't have had.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Keith Phillips]

So that's some wisdom on that. If anybody wants to know more and, and just, just have me gnaw their ear off about short term rentals, I'd be happy to.

[Jenny Urch]

Have you learned all of this just in the past since you started with the bunkie?

[Keith Phillips]

No, the short term rental.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, because you had your cabin. You already had your cabin.

[Keith Phillips]

We did. And before that we had a house in, near Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Fayetteville, North Carolina. And I was in the army there. We moved while we were there to our first place out in the country. We kept our city house, a cute little thousand square foot house in town, and we rented it long term. Because that's what you did at that point. We kept it rented long term with almost no breaks for about seven years or so. Five, six, seven years. And then there was a big thing that happened, I don't know if you remember, called sequestration that Congress had put themselves under, where if they didn't come to an agreement by this certain date, like all these spending things would get cut automatically.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah.

[Keith Phillips]

And they didn't come to an agreement. It was supposed to be so painful that that would make them come to an agreement, but they didn't. Well, what that did is that cut the civilian jobs at Fort Bragg that people thought would be there forever. At the same time, the army opened up on post more on post housing and gutted the housing market. So while the other real estate markets in the country are coming back and getting stronger, the Fayetteville, North Carolina one just tanks.

[Jenny Urch]

Wow.

[Keith Phillips]

And we lost our renter. So we were like, what are we going to do? And was, let's give it a shot with this short term rental thing. And my sister in law and her husband were moving there at the time because he had joined the army as well. And they were like, hey, do you guys want to be in charge of this and manage it for us because we're moving to Korea at this point. And they were like, yeah, let's do it. And it has been great since we. We did short term rental on that.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, that was your first short term rental. So you've got a lot of experience there with that.

[Keith Phillips]

That was the first one. We did it for years. We ended up selling it when we moved to where we are now, we had a double wide trailer in a pretty rural area and we Airbnb that thing until we needed to sell it. And it was great. I've done long term, I've done short term. I would go short term 10 out of 10 times because people don't tear up your stuff as bad. And you've got yourself or somebody else as a professional cleaner in there every day or two or three so that it never. The condition doesn't deteriorate.

[Jenny Urch]

Interesting.

[Keith Phillips]

And the money you get is way better.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, it's really cool. I mean, I had a guy on named John Kry and he was talking about from a different perspective, but it was all about Airbnbs and he was making a living being a photographer and I a videographer and going around to these different ones and helping create content for them. And so I just thought it was a neat thing to highlight because our day and age has changed and there's a lot of different ways that you can make money that didn't used to exist. In fact, I was talking to a friend who knew someone that they just had a bunch of Ubers. Like they, there was their whole family business, they had had a regular career and then just one after another, they were able to get these loans for these Uber cars. And I mustn't. Maybe it wasn't Uber. That's.

[Keith Phillips]

It's not Uber. It's. It's similar.

[Jenny Urch]

It's where you can rent the Turo.

[Keith Phillips]

Turo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Urch]

That's it.

[Keith Phillips]

You become your own rental car company.

[Jenny Urch]

So what they did for their whole family business, and it was sustaining their whole family, was they lived in a regular neighborhood, Keith. So they didn't have a bunch of places to park cars, but they were constantly rented, so it didn't matter. So maybe they had eight of them and they lived near a major airport and. And their job was to basically drop off cars, pick up cars, clean the cars, Clean them, clean them and take them back.

[Keith Phillips]

Kids can clean cars.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. Yes. And so I don't know if you're listening to this, and I think a lot of people are like, I'd like a career change. I'd like to try something different. You know, there's just a lot of different ways out there these days to make money and ways that are neat, like, you know, to facilitate someone's vacation or to be someone that's doing vacation photography. I think all of those ideas have a lot of pros to them. A lot of benefits, give you a lot of freedom and flexibility. So this is an awesome option. People can check out the bunkies and I recommend checking them out because they're just fun to look at. It's sort of fun to dream and think which one would be the best pick for you. You know, you have the options of solar, a wood burning stove, and people can find [e-mail] and I'll make sure that I link that in the show notes. If people wanted to come stay at yours, Keith, where would they find is too long to.

[Keith Phillips]

And I don't have the website memorized because it's a goofy one. We use a thing called hospitable dot com.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay.

[Keith Phillips]

Which are not hospitable dot com. It's an app called Hospitable and it is at hospitable dot com they do a pretty good job. There's other management platforms you can use as well. It manages our Airbnb VRBO and it provides us with a direct booking website.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, wow, that's great.

[Keith Phillips]

I have not purchased a domain for it. So it's kind of a goofy. It's like panthers rest dot, hospitable dot something or other. But I will give you that. That link so that you can post it and people can come stay. Please do book direct because it'll be cheaper.

[Jenny Urch]

What national park are you by?

[Keith Phillips]

The Shawnee National Forest.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, I don't know much about it.

[Ginny Urch]

Tell us.

[Keith Phillips]

So it's in southernmost Illinois. It's near the. It's 45, 50 minutes from Paducah.

[Jenny Urch]

Oh, we've got friends in Paducah and it's.

[Keith Phillips]

Yeah, it's not far from Paducah, so definitely come see us. Union county is the county we live in and we have almost 20 wineries. It's basically known as the Shawnee Wine Trail. Shawnee Hills, that's what it's called, the Shawnee Hills Wine Trail. And the wine has gotten pretty good actually. There was a revival of wine back in the late 70s, early 80s and some people that got into it, there were some stories that didn't taste very good, but it tastes good. Now we've got a couple of those wineries that are 2 1/2 miles from the house. We also have the national forest we back up to. There's a gorgeous wilderness area that has this amazing rock formations that's like two miles north of our house. Like as a crows fly, as a crow flies. It's a one and a half mile hike in the woods from the trailhead that you would drive to. It's, it's pretty close. So it's a, it's a neat area to go see a few restaurants and things. But it's very much in the sticks. Like you're not, you're not near a big city at all. If you want sushi, your best chance is going to back to Paducah and go in a Sand Club or maybe Marion, Illinois. Another, another, another one. There's a little bit of foodie food at some of the, the vineyards and small restaurants though.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, yeah, what a cool thing. I'll make sure I put the link in the show notes so if people are interested they can check out the Bunky Life website. There was a someone who'd said, my father helped me. He's 84. It's a special S groove process that allows the bunkies to slot together extremely easily. Most clients or many clients describe it similar to building Legos. They're generally built in two to three full days with a build partner. So just a cool thing to know about Keith. I think it's awesome, fun to dream about, think about maybe different ways that you might be able to use it if you live in an area where you've got some space to put one or maybe if you own a little property somewhere and you could put a Lincoln log style cabin kit on your property and lots of different ways that you could use them. And then you also give all the information about how to seal them and those type of steel and stain and all of those different type of things. So Keith What a cool thing. What a neat thing that you've joined in with. It's got a lot of options for use and a lot of ways that people can use it to enhance their life and having people over and being hospitable everywhere, from that to using as a business, to using it as a garden shed, to using it as a kiosk for your market, your poolside oasis, all of these different options. Your podcast studio, your workout studio, anything you need extra space for a home office. So, Keith, thanks so much for being here. We always end our podcast with the same question, and that question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that's outside.

[Keith Phillips]

Okay. I want to give you. If you'll let me. I want to give you two really quickly. And one of them is inside, but I'll give you the outside one first. Okay. Okay. So the outside was just like every day I was outside in that sort of. We lived in a subdivision, a neighborhood.

[Jenny Urch]

Right.

[Keith Phillips]

But there was that. There's always that land that's undevelopable. And that was behind my backyard. It was just too much of a swamp or whatever. And we cut trees, trails through it. We built forts in it. We did all this stuff. We had wars with the other kids in the neighborhood where we, like, threw dirt at each other or something. I don't remember exactly, but it was just an amazing. That. That's an amazing way to grow up. It's just out in the woods doing that kind of stuff.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah.

[Keith Phillips]

Riding my bike through some of those trails and jumping it over things and getting myself hurt and all that. The other one is when my dad was like a kind of a. He had an idea of being a Christian music singer or something. Early on. He was still doing that a little bit because he would get invites to come sing at churches and stuff. And I remember going with him one time and he brought his own little sound system. And when. When he was done, I started packing it up. And I remember taking this quarter inch to XLR adapter off of the XLR mic cable and taking the mic off the cable and getting it all situated in its case. And this little old lady says, well, he really knows what he's doing, don't he? And I must have been six years old, and I tried my hardest not to smile, but, you know, that kind of things happens to my kids all the time when people see them doing the stuff they're doing and they just try not to smile. But they're so fortified and enriched by that.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's like what you talked about. It gives them confidence in doing these big projects. It gives them confidence in themselves and a little bit of a foundation for the work that they will have ahead of them in the future. Keith, this has been awesome. I've loved learning about Bunkies. I did not know about them at all. And I think that there is a lot of beneficial things to know about here, from meaningful family work all the way to work as play and using this as something to bring in some extra income. So. So thank you so much for being here.

[Keith Phillips]

Absolutely. You're welcome. And if anybody wants to get in touch with me, there's the contacts on the website. But I'm keitheartlandbunkies.com Keith, thanks so much for being here. Thank you.