1KHO 523: From Couch, to Garden, to Whole Foods and a Whole New Life Down 160 Pounds | Helene Leeds and Penelope Popken, Step It Up

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast - Episode 1KHO 523

Title: From Couch, to Garden, to Whole Foods and a Whole New Life Down 160 Pounds | Helene Leeds and Penelope Popken, Step It Up
Host: Ginny Urich, Founder of 1000 Hours Outside
Guests: Helene Leeds and Penelope Popken
Release Date: July 11, 2025

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Introduction and Background

In this heartfelt episode, Ginny Urich welcomes listeners to the inaugural episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast. She introduces the special guests, Helene Leeds and her daughter, Penelope Popken, a dynamic mother-daughter duo who have transformed their lives through a dedicated focus on health, nutrition, and outdoor activities.

Personal Stories: Struggles with Weight

Helene Leeds opens up about her challenging upbringing:

“I grew up in a household where my mom was morbidly obese. ... She died, actually, right when Penelope was born, which was really challenging.” (01:56)

Despite her education in nutrition, Helene was blindsided when Penelope gained weight rapidly, reaching 320 pounds by age 15. The emotional and physical toll on both mother and daughter was immense.

Penelope Popken shares her experience with societal pressures and conflicting messages about body image:

"Being overweight is healthy. Being morbidly obese is beautiful at any size... I thought it was okay because my doctors and my therapist told me that it was all right to eat junk food." (03:15)

Navigating Conversations About Weight

Helene discusses the cultural stigma and blame placed upon her as a mother:

“People say it's your fault. It's like child abuse.” (02:58)

They highlight the lack of control over a child’s diet outside the home and the challenges of addressing weight without support.

Penelope adds to the complexity by describing the inadequate support systems:

"The therapy had junk food at the therapy session. So now I'm eating all their snacks and their food, and I'm getting fatter in therapy." (10:05)

Turning Point and Strategies for Weight Loss

A pivotal moment occurred when Helene and Penelope moved to California, leading to a drastic change in Penelope’s habits. Penelope recounts her breakthrough:

"I looked at myself in the mirror, and I said, I don't recognize myself anymore." (11:04)

To combat weight gain, Penelope began making her favorite junk foods at home using whole ingredients, allowing her to enjoy the foods she loved without the negative health impacts.

“I made my favorite double bacon cheeseburger at home and then stepped it up, week by week.” (11:07)

The Step It Up Program and Successes

Their collaborative effort led to the creation of the Step It Up program, aimed at helping others achieve similar transformations. Penelope has successfully lost 160 pounds, highlighting the effectiveness of their holistic approach.

“I still can't see a different person in the mirror. I'm still far from that.” (11:09)

Healing the Relationship with Food

Healing the relationship with food is emphasized as a cornerstone of their journey:

"Healing your relationship with food is one of the most important things you can do in a lifetime." (23:58)

Penelope explains how she overcame her addiction to ultra-processed foods by learning to prepare whole, nutritious meals she enjoyed.

Physical Activity and Emotional Regulation through Movement

Helene and Penelope discuss the role of physical activity not just for weight loss but for emotional well-being:

"Movement and exercise help with regulating your emotions so that you're not turning to food as a solution." (33:36)

Penelope shares her daily routine:

"I run four miles every day. It's engraved in my heart." (28:07)

Helene adds her own practices, including yoga and swimming, which complement their overall health strategy.

The Importance of Social Support

The Step It Up program thrives on social support and accountability, which Helene describes as vital for sustained success:

"Having an accountability partner or friends like you was so helpful in our group." (25:57)

Childhood Memories and the Value of Outdoor Play

To conclude, Helene and Penelope share their favorite childhood memories outdoors, underscoring the podcast's central theme of the importance of outdoor activities.

Helene:
"I used to dress up like Wonder Woman... and we’d go play in the forest." (42:14)

Penelope:
"I would spend hours on the trampoline, performing for an invisible audience." (42:49)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Helene Leeds at 01:56:
  “I saw my mom lose and gain hundreds of pounds. And I saw the resulting emotional turmoil, physical challenges, and just general agony of it.”

• Penelope Popken at 03:15:
  “Being overweight is healthy. Being morbidly obese is beautiful at any size... I thought it was okay because my doctors and my therapist told me that it was all right to eat junk food.”

• Helene Leeds at 02:58:
  “People say it's your fault. It's like child abuse.”

• Penelope Popken at 10:05:
  “The therapy had junk food at the therapy session. So now I'm eating all their snacks and their food, and I'm getting fatter in therapy.”

• Penelope Popken at 11:04:
  “I looked at myself in the mirror, and I said, I don't recognize myself anymore.”

• Helene Leeds at 23:58:
  “Healing your relationship with food is one of the most important things you can do in a lifetime.”

• Penelope Popken at 28:07:
  “I run four miles every day. It's engraved in my heart.”

• Helene Leeds at 33:36:
  “Movement and exercise help with regulating your emotions so that you're not turning to food as a solution.”

• Helene Leeds at 42:14:
  “I used to dress up like Wonder Woman... and we’d go play in the forest.”

• Penelope Popken at 42:49:
  “I would spend hours on the trampoline, performing for an invisible audience.”

Conclusion

Helene Leeds and Penelope Popken's journey from significant weight struggles to achieving a healthier, more active lifestyle serves as an inspiring testament to the power of determination, education, and the importance of outdoor activities. Their Step It Up program embodies their mission to help others transform their lives one day at a time, fostering generational impacts on health and well-being.

For more information on their program, visit Step It Up through the links provided in the show notes.

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Timestamps Reference:

• 00:00 – 00:57: Advertisement (Skipped)
• 00:57 – 44:27: Main Content
• 44:27 – End: Advertisement and Closing (Skipped)

Transcript

[Ginny Urich]

The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack Welchmba to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have new friends with me today, a mother daughter duo that we actually met in person kind of briefly, but pretty fun at a really cool restaurant in Washington, D.C. helene Leeds and Penelope Popkin. You say people used to call you Penelope Pumpkin, which I do think is cute and you didn't really like it. But Penelope Popkin, they're both here with us today, sitting outside with a fantastic backdrop with welcome to the both of you.

[Helene Leeds]

Thank you. So happy to be here.

[Penelope Popkin]

To be here.

[Ginny Urich]

It was an honor to meet and sometimes that's how life goes. You're in these places and you and you meet people and then here we go, we get to have a conversation together. We were there in Washington, D.C. when they were announcing how they're phasing out the food dyes, which is fantastic. And I got to hear just a little bit of your story as mother and daughter. And also I did a little bit more of a deep dive online with some of the things you share. And we're going to be talking today about weight, which we've never really talked about. I think, you know, we talk about like I've talked to Dr. Kate Shanahan. Weight factors into some of these conversations. I talked to Dr. Kate Shanahan about seed oils and I've talked to Mark Schatzker about food, natural food, flavorings, food. I don't know. It's a good book. It's called the Dorito Effect about how we can crave foods because there's all this fake flavor on them and things like that. But not particularly about weight too much. It is a really touchy subject. How have you learned to navigate it?

[Helene Leeds]

Good question. I mean, I grew up in a household where my mom was morbidly obese. So I really got to see firsthand the backdrop of my upbringing was, you know, Food Eaters Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, Food Addicts Anonymous. And I saw my mom lose and gain hundreds of pounds. And I saw the Resulting emotional turmoil, physical challenges, and just general an agony of it. And she died, actually, right when Penelope was born, which was really challenging. And so I was sure we were going to dodge the bullet, like, this generation. No way. Like, I was going to get a master's and a bachelor's degree in nutrition. But then Penelope gained all this weight, and I really felt blindsided. As a mom who, like, is really well equipped to avoid this from happening, she just apparently was throwing away the school lunches. She refused to eat at home, and she gained a lot of weight. She was 320 pounds by age 15. And a lot of people say, well, it's your fault. It's like child abuse. And at a certain point, we just don't have control.

[Ginny Urich]

Have people actually said that to you?

[Helene Leeds]

Oh, yeah. And if it's at a certain point, you don't have control over what your kids eat unless you're home, homeschooling them. And we were asked recently, like, what would you have done differently? And I said, I. I would not have sent her to school, frankly. That was her supply chain, so it.

[Penelope Popkin]

Was my supply chain. And you say, like, it's. It's a touchy topic, and it's true. I don't really feel like people like to talk about it that much. So much so that we've gone so far in the spectrum where now, you know, when I was 15 years old, instead of saying, like, hey, being overweight's unhealthy, it totally. They totally flipped the script on me, and they were like, no, being overweight is healthy. Being morbidly obese is beautiful at any. You're beautiful at any size. It doesn't matter how much weight you gain. You're beautiful, Penelope. And I started to keep eating the processed food, and I thought it was okay because my doctors and my therapist told me that it was all right to eat junk food, that there was no such thing against junk food. You know, eat Oreos, Penelope. That's what a healthy relationship with food is. And I just. At that time, I believe them. And, you know, social media, my friends, therapist, doctors, they were all like, you're fine. You're totally fine. But I was £320, and I was depressed, and I was anxious. They wanted to give me pills for my anxiety and depression. They didn't tell me to move more. They didn't tell me to eat better. They didn't tell me to eat vegetables. They never talked about my weight ever. But I always felt maybe a little uncomfortable because I couldn't walk up the Steps. And as the weight piled on, I just was sicker and sicker. And then I couldn't get out of bed. But no one talked about it except for my mom, who I was rebelling against, but nobody else was talking about it. My friends were just feeding me junk food.

[Helene Leeds]

Yeah, it was really an interesting dynamic. And honestly, the more time she spent indoors, the worse it got, because now we know that being outside helps with metabolic function. You know, less screen time is better for you. And it was like she became an addict, and I couldn't get her out of bed, off the phone, or changing her habits. I mean, she fell into, like, a deep, dark pit of suicide, depression, and anxiety. And, yeah, obesity came along with it. So it was. It was tough.

[Ginny Urich]

Talk us through. You know, you say it's interesting dynamic. Talk us through the initial conversations about that, because it is. It's the elephant in the room. You know, there is this cultural pressure to not talk about it. And like you said, Penelope, you experience that. I think it's tricky because for some people, they. It's like, well, how much is it my fault? And I'm really stressed out, or I've got these genetics or, you know, like, for. In my case, I look just like my grandfather, like spitting image. And there's, you know, there's a gene component there, you know, so there's all of these factors at play, and yet it does actually affect the quality of your life, and that matters. So it affects what you can do and how much you can move and what clothes you can buy, and it affects your social relationships to a degree. So how did those conversations, like, when did you know to have the conversation, Helene? And how did you approach it at the beginning?

[Helene Leeds]

Well, I knew that something was wrong because our neighbors would. She'd go over to their houses for play dates. They would call and say, listen, you know, Penelope ate, like, the entire bag of goldfish or she devoured the entire pizza. And clearly, we have this gene that you're referring to. We have it right. Clearly. My mom died. Severe obesity was on her death certificate as a cause of death. Her brother, my uncle, also morbidly obese. But my grandparents, their parents were not. And so when we look at, you know, what's happening, we see that there's a component. There's a new component that's in the equation that wasn't there 100 years ago. So the conversation in the beginning was like, okay, let's educate Penelope. So when she asks me, what's for dinner? I can say, well, let's look, how many starches have you had today? How many vegetables have you had today? And she didn't really like that. I used to write it up. We had these little graphics in the kitchen, but I thought, well, she just needs to know what to choose and whatnot. And my sister had this really interesting equation. She was like, well, you give them the food and they can decide how much. But that just didn't work with Penelope because she just really just wanted to eat a lot. So we knew already there was something going on there, but we didn't quite, quite know what to do about it except provide healthy food that tasted great, which I'm an expert at. I was on Master Chef. Like, I love to cook, you know, it's just like my art, you know. So I think in the beginning we were able to kind of keep it at bay with her physical activity and all the food that she was getting at home. But I think there was a pivotal moment when we moved to California where it just, it got out of my hand. I couldn't. And we got. I couldn't bring it back. And that's when she, like, locked herself in her room, stopped doing exercise and sports and just started a junk food diet. So the conversations were always trying to be educational in the beginning, and then forceful and then shameful bribes. Shameless bribes. You know, of like, hey, if you join the swim team, I'll give you 600 bucks. Or, you know, like some crazy £10.

[Penelope Popkin]

I'll buy you a new dress. I remember that.

[Helene Leeds]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urich]

I mean, you kind of feel desperate as a mom. And I think the reason. Part of the reason I was drawn to this conversation is because there is no training or any information that I've ever seen never come across my stream. I haven't talked to anybody about it. I haven't really seen many good books. There's no information about when and how to talk to your child about their weight, even though their weight. And people want to say it doesn't matter. I would say, Penelope, I'm sure you still, still were beautiful. But the whole thing about it's really tricky.

[Helene Leeds]

Well, I was honest with her. I was like, what's going on? And then I got aggressive, you know, sometimes, which I'm not recommending, but I'm saying I would rip the, the, the curtains open and I throw the covers off of her. I'm like, get up, get out of bed. Like, cut it out. You know, and. And then, and then, you know, she wanted, you know, the doctors wanted to give her medication, and I said, no. I said, you know, you got to get. You got to exercise. You got to get outside. And so I had to really be firm and I had to be a stand for. For the girl, the woman, the young girl that I knew that she was. And she. And. And that girl was going away every day, becoming a shadow of herself. And I was a stand for the person I knew she is. But it was being shrouded by this addiction. When I think that the ultra processed food, which we've been a stand for, advocating getting it out of schools, because I saw it hijack her gut microbiome and therefore her brain. I saw what was happening and I was. I was like, not going to let it happen. That's what moms have to do. We have to stand up. And she almost. She almost. She's like, I'm going to be emancipated. I'm going to run away.

[Penelope Popkin]

It's true. I did. I almost emancipated myself. I almost left school.

[Helene Leeds]

I almost got my G. So it's so edgy, Ginny. It's so edgy.

[Ginny Urich]

It is.

[Helene Leeds]

It's like, you know, you lose because it's addiction.

[Ginny Urich]

It's addiction.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah, it's addiction. Because I would beg, borrow, and steal. I'd go down the hill, go to 7 11, get my donut, get my Sour Patch Kids. Then I'd hide the trash in my backpack, in my closet, under my bed, under my pillows, outside of the trash can. I do anything for it.

[Helene Leeds]

But you're right. I searched the Internet. I looked for answers. Who's the expert on this? What's the best therapist? You know, she was in. She had like three different. Different things going on.

[Penelope Popkin]

The therapy. Had junk food at the therapy session. So we do these group therapies, and they have candy and cookies and chips. So now I'm eating all their snacks and their food, and I'm getting fatter in therapy, when that's when I'm supposed to be working on myself. I'm getting fatter.

[Helene Leeds]

And the doctor said, don't talk about it. And the therapist said, don't talk about it. And. And so it's really, really edgy because the mom is the enabler and she's also the cause of the problem in so many ways, multidimensionally. And yet she's also the one that has to fix it. And it.

[Ginny Urich]

So talk to us about a turning point, because obviously there was a turning point because here you sit now you're helping tons of people with their weight. You have a program that you offer. And I'll make sure I put all the links in the show, notes for people that are interested. But also, Penelope, you have lost 140 pounds. And I met you post all of this. But I know you sent me the pictures and things like that, which is a lot. And you talk about on your YouTube, you know, no stretch marks, which is pretty remarkable. No loose skin. No loose skin is what. Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Penelope Popkin]

£160 now, which is crazy to think about.

[Ginny Urich]

£160 is half your. Half your body.

[Penelope Popkin]

Half my body. Literally, half my body. That's. And I. And I still can't. I still see a different person in the mirror. I'm still far from that. Like, I still think that I'm £320 sometimes, which is just crazy. And honestly, my mom saved my life. I will say that. And it was seeing her every day, work out, seeing her eat whole foods my whole life. She's been doing it my whole life. But I finally one day looked at myself in the mirror, and I said, I don't recognize myself anymore. Who is this girl? Because it's not me. And I've lost myself completely. You know, I looked at a. A young photo of myself, and I didn't recognize her anymore. I had completely lost who that was. And the more weight I lost, the more I could recognize the little girl again. And that was the moment where I was like, okay, that's. Like, that means something. And how I did it was by making my favorite junk food at home. So I loved Burger King, so I'd make my double bacon cheeseburger at home. And then I just stepped it up, which is why we call step it Up. Just stepped it up. Week by week, I went from a who wheat bun to an Ezekiel bun to a lettuce bun to beef to turkey to venison to elk, whatever it may be. I just stepped it up, and I made my favorite foods at home. Because you can eat ice cream every day. You just have to use different.

[Helene Leeds]

And she does, and she does.

[Penelope Popkin]

I just use different ingredients. But we weren't taught in school. I wasn't taught in school how to cook. I wasn't taught in school how to garden. And it's, like, sexist to teach that stuff in school now. And so when I was homeschooled, actually, which you. You'll love this. During COVID I had time to cook. I had time to learn to cook from my mom. I had time to exercise every day, because at school, I wasn't doing that exercise. We Weren't exercising at school every day. We weren't cooking at school every day. So I learned all of that when I was stuck at home homeschooled. And homeschooling saved my life because I graduated actually a year and a half early from high school. And I was able to start this mission with you, which is amazing. And now I get to help women every day lose the weight without loose skin by eating whole foods and learning how to cook whole foods.

[Helene Leeds]

And then the other side of that, Jenny, I was a like a come to Jesus moment. Like, desperation, like, falling to the floor. I don't know what to do. God, you know, I need help. Like, hail Mary. I was calling on my dead mom. I was just like, what? Like this. Like, I don't know if she's gonna make it out because she was cutting. And I just. I mean, I tried everything, you know, we were at over $2,000 a month just in therapy, and I was just like, what are. You know, and so really, it was like a hail Mary. And it was real in that moment where she actually opened the door, walked down the hallway, and she sat at the table for the first time in years. And she was like, all right, enough. Like, someone's going to give. And so what age?

[Ginny Urich]

What age?

[Penelope Popkin]

15.

[Ginny Urich]

15?

[Helene Leeds]

I thought you were a little older.

[Ginny Urich]

And when you said, enough, I want to change.

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[Ginny Urich]

I actually think that's a really interesting start, Penelope. Like, you're like, okay, I know I like hamburgers and I know I like brownies and I know I like ice cream or whatever the things are to start and say, okay, I'm not going to deprive myself of those things, but I'm going to make them. That's the first change that's. That feels pretty brilliant.

[Penelope Popkin]

Well, because I tried a lot of diets. I trained the Weight Watchers, I tried the keto, and it made me sick. And I always gained the weight back. And this was the one thing that it didn't make me gain the weight back. So I just learned to make everything I absolutely love out of whole ingredients. And then I was losing weight while enjoying myself, which I thought was impossible because that's what I had been told, that doing all these diets, I was like, oh, you have to be miserable forever if you want to be healthy. And also, I was addicted to ultr processed foods. Right. So my taste buds thought vegetables were gross until I learned how to season them properly and cook them properly. Because they also don't teach us how to make french fries at home, you know, at. In an air fryer with seasonings without dunking canola oil all over them. They don't teach us that, but I wish they did. And mom and I do teach women how to cook now because it's a skill we don't learn in school. But it was like a blessing to learn this from you. Thank goodness you know how to cook.

[Helene Leeds]

I know I love to cook. Listen, if you're overweight, you're. I mean, if. Because I, I've always been overweight. My nickname in high, in elementary school is Fatso. I was the only fat kid in third grade and I was the original plus size model in the 90s, you know, a small crew of us. Yeah, it lived in New York with Ford models. And, and so we, and we were like, you know, 12s, 14s. We weren't, you know, size 22, but still, like, I've always found myself to be voluptuous Because I love food. I mean if you, you, I mean you got to love food if you love life. I always get like, find it unusual. People who don't like food. I'm like, how is that like a thing like. And I'm not going to be willing to sacrifice that love for food and flavor when there's so much abundance. You know, we find we've planted a garden here and we just know that nature provides and there's just so much abundance available of health through that.

[Ginny Urich]

But change is really hard. So when you talk about making this change, you know, it's like you say it in a sentence, right? I took all the things I liked that were junk food, which some of them would be tricky. Like you can't really recreate Doritos, but you could make cookies or things like that. So you're gonna, you're gonna make whole things and probably you're more satiated and you learn to like different things. Your taste buds change, but change is hard. So what does that involve? Well, that involves a new way of shopping. That involves. And I know you talk about your mom was already cooking, but it involves learning how to make the things. It also involves actually a chunk of time that maybe you weren't factoring in before, right? So it's like, okay, you get a burger at Burger King that might take you 12 minutes. But if you're going to cook the whole thing yourself and you got to get the ingredients. So can you talk people through? I think sometimes that's. There's two parts actually. One is how to make the. How to make a change. How to make a big change like that, especially with your diet. And the second part is how do you deal with the non instant gratification of it? Like the, the self control piece where you're like, it does take a while for things to show up and you might feel like it might not work or nothing's happening. So it's sort of a two part thing.

[Penelope Popkin]

That is just a brilliant question. I would say you make, you decide to make the change because you are tired of not being the change that you want to see. So you are just so tired of feeling like crap every day. And you have a why that drives you. So my why was I want to have kids one day. I don't want to die at 20, I don't want to have a heart disease at age 16. I don't want to be sick for the rest of my life and never be able to have children and see them grow up. And your why is what gets you through every day. Because I always say motivation and willpower, they don't get you anywhere. They don't do anything for you. They expire immediately. That's not going to get you to wake up every day and work out. That's not going to make you go to your kitchen and prep. Prep is also another thing. You just prep your burgers in the freezer and you never have an excuse to go to Burger King again because you have all your patties in your freezer and you just grab it. Making time is something you have to do, but you can also do little time here and there. If you can't do it all in one day, there's no excuse to not be healthy. In 2025, we have all the resources that we've ever needed out there. We have ChatGPT, search for recipes for anything we like. There's just no excuse anymore.

[Helene Leeds]

Yeah. And I think as moms, we have to set an example. Even if the kids rebel against it. I do believe now, long term it does pay off. And I think it's like the most important thing we can do is set that, set that, you know, model. And we notice that with the girls in our program. Yeah, in the beginning, there's some resistance because change, like you said, is challenging. And I think learning anything new is challenging. If you want to learn the piano, you want to learn a language, like, you know, transformation is never pleasant. Like, you, you build muscle, it's uncomfortable. But I always think that, like, if I'm not getting uncomfortable every day a little bit, I'm also not growing. Just like a muscle won't grow, you know, or like the fires that burned in the region where we live, like, you see all this new growth you, that wasn't there before, which is amazing. So it's just part of the way nature works is through transformation. And it's not always pleasant. These sheets of hail come and storms and all these things, but then you see the regrowth afterwards. And I don't think that transformation for humans is really any different. I think it's mirrored exactly in nature. So it's necessary because we see now the tragedy of one in three children, either pre diabetic or diabetic. And we see the future. That's not a healthy one. And we all know that if you're not healthy, you don't really have much freedom or happiness. So it's a burden for your family, for you, for society, and it's just not worth it long term. But even if you can't see that or feel into that global context, it's important and I think people underestimate how important it is. And until it gets taken away from you, your health, that is, you don't really, you don't really know.

[Ginny Urich]

You did say one of the things you said and you guys have your YouTube in your own podcast. You said, healing your relationship with food is one of the most important things you can do in a lifetime. And I thought that's a really big sentence. And it is true because it affects so many different things. Healing your relationship with food. So if your relationship with food is out of whack or your kids relationship with food or as a family, then this is something really important that you can do that's going to affect a lot of things. What about the person and you work with so many families and you have this program. I'll make sure I put the link. You work with so many people. What about the people? I mean, you're talking about losing half your body weight, right, Penelope? So there is this overwhelming thought of the road is too long.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah, I know I felt that way. And I, and I like one time I did an HCG injection which is a hormone they give your body to basically be less hungry. And I remember being that desperate because I wanted that quick result. And we talk about these quick results today. It's like the most popular thing to do Ozempic or do the easy way out because of this long road. We talk about, you know, part of the slow weight loss. Yes, you build a lot of character. You also don't get loose skin. You don't get those saggy skin. You know, you see people on Ozempic who lose the weight so rapidly, their faces are sunken in, their skin is pale, they look really unhealthy. And it's because they are, they're still eating the same crap. They're just losing the weight really fast because they're eating a lot less of it. And that's simply it. When you do it the natural way and you do it in the slow way, you learn so much. I used to be a victim of everything that happened to me. I, I truly felt like the world was happening to me. And through the process, I learned that the world was happening for me, to teach me things. And when I learned that, I learned that natural weight loss was a side effect of learning how to become a better human. And part of my story and part of my mission on this earth to help others was to go through this weight loss journey. And yes, it's hard and there I wanted to give up a million times. And that's also why having an accountability partner or friends like you was so.

[Helene Leeds]

Helpful in our group. That's why we designed it that way. And also, it's like, this is the rest of your life. It might as well be fun, delicious and inspiring and. And honestly, that's the rest of your life. And that's your insurance policy. Like, no doctor is going to give you that. No. No one outside of you. And so to me, it's just like, you gotta just do it. You gotta bite the bullet, figure it out. Like, it's just. And it's fun and delicious. I mean, that's what our girls say. Really sweet. We have one girl, she just lost 84 pounds and counting. And she said, you know, it was my birthday and this person brought over this cake and I had a bite and it was disgusting. I was so disappointed. And it's just like, that's the point. Like, our girls are never going to look back because it just. Your taste buds completely transform. Your brain is completely transformed because your gut microbiome is completely transformed. And so, you know, it's really just about coming back to who you were born to be and learning how to use natural things that are within reach, affordable, you know, somewhat simple, embarrassingly simple, really, to just get back in on track. So you just have that freedom. To me, it's like, freedom, like, what is more important than freedom and health? I don't know because when I was a kid, I was in a wheelchair at age 7 and it sucked. And I never. I. And I guess I had to have these experiences with my mother dying from what I see prematurely, being in a wheelchair, having Penelope, it's just like, what is life worth? Like, what is it really, really worth?

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. And it's interesting because I think, like you say, the weight loss is almost a side effect. It's like if your main goal is freedom and feeling good and health and then the weight comes off, that's kind of what these books are saying. Like that Dr. Kate Shanahan, she's saying that, you know, it fixes that maniacal hunger that's coming from ultra processed foods and all of the seed oils and all of those types of things. And so it's a freedom. It's a freedom that you get from that bondage to these foods that you're craving. And like you said, going to the friend's house and eating the whole bag of goldfish. You're not free. You know, you don't feel free when you Feel com. That compulsion to do things like that. So then talk about the exercise too. The exercise and the movement. What do you like to do? What's your schedule like? How much do you do?

[Penelope Popkin]

Well, at the start I just, my mom stopped driving me places, places. So I would just have to walk everywhere if I wanted to go anywhere. And I was really overweight, I mean 320 pounds. Couldn't even get out of bed. So that was a tough task. And we lived on a steep hill so I really had to work for that 711 down the hill. But so I, I just started walking everywhere and that really helped me a lot. And then I also started working out for one hour every morning. I didn't have any workout equipment. I had wheelbarrows outside that I filled with mulch and I chubbed across our basketball court.

[Helene Leeds]

He's got willpower, this one.

[Penelope Popkin]

Even in the rain, rain or shine, I would put that alarm on first thing I did, get it done. I've always been like that. I still am to this day. And it's interesting because I used to never be able to run the mile ever in my life. Never, ever run the mile. Today I run four miles every day. It's like my signature thing. I have to do it. It's engraved in my heart. It's like I beat my own kind of goal and self. And I always say that I kind of like killed the person on my back. That 160 pound girl who was basically my enemy. And so I'm like my best friend when I work out. So like I would want my best friend to work out because I know that body would feel better and she would be a better person in result of that. And so I want to treat myself like that if I can. And so that's how I've kept myself consistent throughout the time. And strength training has been really important. I've done a lot of that on my journey and Cardio and getting 10,000, 12,000 steps. Some people just need to start with 2,000, 3,000. Some people aren't walking at all. So whatever they can do something is better than nothing.

[Helene Leeds]

You also have this rule where you don't you limit your screen time. And so she provides herself screen time when she's on the treadmill for.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Helene Leeds]

So she does these like little things, I don't want to say games but like she gives her, she gives herself a reward inside of it. Because screen time was also impacting her, you know, weight.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah, I did have to delete social media on my journey so that I would stop consuming mukbang videos, binge eating videos, morbidly obese plus size body positive videos telling me it was all right to be obese because that really demotivated me and made me think I didn't need to lose weight. So once I deleted the social medias, I was more empowered to do the right thing every day because I wasn't constantly seeing the wrong thing. And then I was getting sunlight, which I didn't even know was so good for you. I had no idea why, because they didn't teach us in school. So I went outside and I was like, wow, I feel so much better. And I started feeling better and that was also the motivation to keep going because although I was really hungry sometimes I also felt a lot better.

[Helene Leeds]

It's also a little edgy. This is something that isn't spoken about a lot. I think that a lot of us go to food for stress eating and emotional eating because we don't really know how to do that emotional regulation thing. You know, who taught us that either? So a lot of people step over that in this conversation. Oftentimes when we're craving like sweet and creamy foods, we want a hug or we need like intimacy. You know, when we are craving salty, crunchy foods, we're frustrated or maybe angry, maybe we weren't heard that day or we got minimized or dismissed. And so looking at under the hood so to say about like what's driving the hunger and really getting deep into the analysis of the amazing architecture of hunger which is, which is showing us things all the time. And so for me, the exercise is more of emotional regulation and I use a movement practice to move emotion because I think emotions is just energy in motion. And when it gets stuck, that's when we do overspending in money, overspending in calories, or we have like angry outbursts at our children, or we have things that are showing up in our lives as a result of the emotional dysregulation. And so there are a lot of different ways to work on that. For me it's, it's movement and exercise.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, you talk about it, you say dysregulated emotional eating is the main cause for reoccurring weight loss resistance.

[Helene Leeds]

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[Ginny Urich]

So that's a really interesting take, Helene, because for the most part people are like, well, movement and exercises so you can lose weight and so you think, well, it's calories in, calories out. But what you're saying is that movement and exercise helps with regulating your emotions so that you're not turning to food as a solution. What do you do for movement?

[Helene Leeds]

I do a lot of things. I love movement. I'm so into it in the morning. I do like a move and embodiment practice, which is really loud music and.

[Ginny Urich]

I've never heard of it. Movement, embodiment practice.

[Helene Leeds]

Yes. And so we teach it in our program. We have classes pre recorded up and coming, live classes as well. And so we so it's with music we use the rhythm and we do different movements to really address every body part. But then we also the queuing, like what's said during the music and the workout is really about like clearing the heart, you know, like, like you know, releasing, you know, things and really getting into it.

[Ginny Urich]

It's like you're doing it.

[Helene Leeds]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ginny Urich]

I know.

[Helene Leeds]

It's true. It's true. And then I like to swim, I like to hike, I like to bike, I Have a dog. So of course I, you know, I could take her out and have fun with her. So. So we do all those things to a garden and. Yeah. And do other things, too. But that. That movement practice, though, that's really key. I also do a lot of yoga.

[Penelope Popkin]

I did that at the start as well. I had a lot of breakthroughs doing. Doing those workouts. And I first really judged her because she'd be like, huh? And I'd be like, what are you doing? Like, what is that noise I'm hearing? Like, that was my alarm during COVID Because we were home every day and you were doing these workouts, and I would listen to them.

[Ginny Urich]

That's a really big thing. Penelope, though, isn't that an interesting piece? We. I talk about this some because we do homeschool, and I have this book coming out called Homeschooling. You're doing it right? Just by doing it.

[Penelope Popkin]

Love that.

[Ginny Urich]

I think part of it is the fact that you can. You see life. It's modeled to you.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urich]

So what an interesting piece that you would say. Well, I didn't know what my mom was doing all day.

[Penelope Popkin]

I didn't. Well, and I would hear her, and she was, like, making these noises like, what is she doing? And then one day, I joined her, and that was an amazing day because I was crying, because I was like, wow. Like, I'm so unfit. I can't even get on the ground. Like, I can't even do a burpee. I can barely do a jumping jack. So I do the modification. But it was so cathartic. I released so many emotions of, like, not feeling like I was enough and feeling like I was incapable to feeling like, hey, at least I did something today. And that workout felt so good, and I feel so much better. And I'm so proud of myself for getting it done. And it was just like, every time I did it with you, I felt better afterwards. And it's just. It's such a gift.

[Helene Leeds]

But while we were doing it, she was mad, and she was like, don't look at me. You know, she was crying, turn my.

[Penelope Popkin]

Back and do it. Like, I would turn my back on her. So I didn't, because I. Because I also envied her beauty. And I was like, I don't think I'll ever look as beautiful as her. And now people tell me I look like her, and I'm like. But, like, it's just. I don't even. I couldn't even fathom. I still. When they said, tell me that I'm like, no, no, no. Like, yes, yes, yes. It'll be more beautiful. It's just. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing.

[Helene Leeds]

I just think it's a really big. It's a missing piece. And the more we can connect with our bodies, which is part of the loose skin issue, just really connecting with our bellies, connecting with those trouble spots, you know, behind the arm, you know, connecting with those areas. And it's a. It's a reconfiguration of our relationship with our bodies, with food, with how we nourish ourselves, what we're putting into our minds, our hearts and our bellies, and. Yeah. Mindful eating. Yes. It's a lot, right? There's so many layers to it. It's a really. A journey back to. To the heart.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. So many layers. Which means it's going to affect a lot more than just your weight. It's going to affect a lot of things. And I do really love Penelope that the part of it was the modeling, being home for Covid and seeing what. What is my mom doing? It's kind of weird, but I'm gonna try it. You know, it's just like, how life works, right? And then you find it like, well, this works for me or this doesn't work for me. I just want to hear just a little bit about being on MasterChef.

[Helene Leeds]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah.

[Helene Leeds]

You know, Penelope was born in Europe, actually. And so when I came back to the States, I was really into raw chocolate. I just thought raw chocolate was, you know, how you were gonna have your cake and eat it too. So I said, you know, the world needs raw chocolate because this is healthy chocolate. It's gonna heal your body. And one of my friends And I'd missed 10 years of pop culture in the U.S. and so she's like, oh, you should audition for MasterChef. And I thought, okay. You know, it was a challenge on the beach one day, and so I showed up. I had no idea what MasterChef was, and I had these turd, like, looking little chocolates and so raw chocolate and I. And somehow I made it onto the final 100, onto the cast, and it was a really fun adventure. But Penelope was young at the time, and I ended up feeling like I was begging to get off because I didn't know how long I would have to be away from her. But it was an exciting opportunity to be in that environment with such a huge production staff, and it was great to collaborate and talk food all day because I'm a total foodie. I Love food. We custom curate recipes for our girls day every single day. Like, what do you have in the fridge? Because, you know, you just got to use what you have and make the best out of it. And you just need some basic skills in order to do that. So we believe in just, you know, doing the best you can with what you have. That's what a good cook does. She doesn't have elaborate recipes, you know, that she has every ingredient for. I mean, that's a setup, not a step up.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, you've got a really cool backstory. You know, talking about MasterChef, and then you said you've written cookbooks and ghost written cookbooks and you've developed programs with universities and physician groups and what I think, what a culmination to be working with your child.

[Helene Leeds]

You can make me cry. I mean, when she asked us to buy her a treadmill not that long ago, I mean, I really, I cried, you know, when we got her home and then she wanted to get on it. And I mean, I honestly. And I know I'm not unique. There's so many moms out there who don't know how to turn it around, and I didn't know how to turn it around. I mean, I think it's sheer miracle. And there's a formula to it. Through love. But love doesn't mean permissive parenting. It doesn't mean getting her the fudge and the ice cream and the Doritos. It means being a stand, you know, for what you know is true, just despite all the resistance from the doctors and the therapists and whatever, whomever. And so it is. It is incredible. And I have been pinching myself because now we eat at the table together, which was our first breakthrough, and we cook together. And now she's even a better cook than I am.

[Penelope Popkin]

And I'm in the garden with you. I'm like, in the garden, like, literally planting. It's so fun.

[Helene Leeds]

It's amazing. So when she said she didn't want to go to college, of course I was like, what? You need to go to college? And she's like, nope, that's not going to be me. And so I said, okay, well, college.

[Ginny Urich]

Would have had similar things, wouldn't it have had? I mean, the food thing at college is going to be very, very similar. You know, you're not able to cook and you're going to go to the cafeteria and you'd be stuck in a box. I mean, I'm not trying to, like, throw out college just because of that, but. But it is A thing.

[Penelope Popkin]

It's true. Well, I. I didn't know. I didn't really think about it. But when I started doing it, doing all these things at home, I said, why would I sit in a dark box all day long, eat crappy food that makes me sick, be put on pills, be indoctrinated by ideas that maybe I don't agree with or opinions that don't make sense to me or don't have any logic. And they're not even teaching me how to cook. They're not even teaching me basic life skills that I'm.

[Ginny Urich]

They're gonna. $85,000.

[Penelope Popkin]

$85,000 be stuck in a box with no sunlight or movement. I'm okay. I'd rather do a walking treadmill at home and help people, you know, get healthy again. So, yeah. Yeah.

[Ginny Urich]

I love that what you said was together. That was the word that kept coming up. Well, now we eat together, now we cook together, now we work together, now we garden together. And that's really what it's all about. And, you know, it's those life experiences that I think sometimes can seem like they're really hard or also the cards are stacked against you. You come from this line of obesity. It's like, while it also has given you an opportunity now to be together and to do the work that you're doing. The program is called Step it up, and I'll put the links in the show notes. It's in particular, we're hitting at the end of our time, but we. Maybe we'll talk again. In particular, what makes it really unique is that there is a lot of social support and people are calling in and checking on you and that type of thing. And you're helping people to change their health just one day at a time. One day at a time, and keep it that way. And. And then that it has a generational impact. So it's so, so important what you're doing, and I'll make sure everybody knows where they can go to find you. We always end our show with the same question. Since there's two of you, I'm gonna say it now so that we have enough time to get through. But my question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

[Penelope Popkin]

Oh, you go first. I have to think about this.

[Helene Leeds]

I used to dress up like Wonder Woman, the OG Wonder Woman. I'd stand at the top of my driveway. I have a picture I could send you. It's so cute. And I stand at the top of my driveway with my hands on my Hips and my legs, you know, spread out, and I would, like, run down the driveway to the. Like into my neighbor's house, and we'd go play in the forest and whatnot. But I just love to dress up like Wonder Woman and, like, walk around.

[Penelope Popkin]

The neighborhood, act like a superhero. It was really fun.

[Ginny Urich]

I totally want to see the picture.

[Penelope Popkin]

I love that. You know, I spent a lot of time outside because you really banned television for me when I was little.

[Helene Leeds]

Yes, I did.

[Penelope Popkin]

Yeah, you were. You just hated the ad so much. I remember. But I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. So my favorite memory, I have to say, I would spend hours in the trampoline outside hours flipping and jumping and flipping and jumping. And I think the trampoline was my favorite. I would perform in front of an invisible audience, and I would sing at the top of my lungs in our front yard and just jump all day and flip all day. And I just. It felt like years were going by and I was just performing on the trampoline. So, yeah, that would be my favorite memory.

[Ginny Urich]

And it's so good for the skeletal system. All of that impact is. Is actually really good. Our kids, we've got a trampoline. I know they're people are. They're kind of controversial. We've got one that doesn't have springs, and I mean, it is. I don't even know how it works. And it's got a net around it. And I mean, it is the favorite thing. We just added a basketball hoop to it. And our kids that are 16 to 8, everybody goes out to the trampoline. St still.

[Helene Leeds]

So it's.

[Ginny Urich]

I mean, I think it's a pretty good investment. We. We've probably had ours for six years. It's a pretty good investment into childhood. No one's ever said trampoline, penelope.

[Penelope Popkin]

Oh, interesting. 5.

[Ginny Urich]

I've been to 500 people, and no one. No one has said trampoline. So that's really remarkable. Well, what an honor to meet the two of you. I mean, what a cool thing. Just in happenstance at that, you know, at the restaurant and after, you know, they talked about pulling the food colorings out of the foods here. And I really love what you're doing and thank you for bringing grace and information to a topic that we're really kind of avoiding quite a bit and is hard to have. So I really appreciate you coming on and being with us today.

[Penelope Popkin]

I love your energy. You're such a, like, joyous, kind soul. It's very rare to meet genuine kind souls, so that's just really nice of you. I feel your kindness through the screen, which is not easy to do, by the way. So thank you. Thank you for having us and thank you for the work you do getting. Getting more kids outside. Thank you. We need that.