1KHO 540: Take Away the Screens and Go Outside | Mike McLeod, GrowNOW ADHD

Summary

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 540: Take Away the Screens and Go Outside | Mike McLeod, GrowNOW ADHD
Release Date: August 4, 2025
Host: Jenny Uridge
Guest: Mike McLeod, Founder of GrowNOW ADHD

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Introduction and Context

Jenny Uridge opens the episode by introducing Mike McLeod from GrowNOW ADHD, highlighting his consistent presence and positive reception among listeners. The overarching theme centers on combating the youth mental health crisis by reducing screen time and promoting outdoor activities—a mission encapsulated by the podcast's title, "1000 Hours Outside."

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Key Message: Eliminating Screens as a Solution

Mike McLeod passionately emphasizes that eliminating screens is the straightforward solution needed to address the current mental health downturn among youth. He asserts, “A Thousand Hours Outside is the cure to this horrible youth mental health crisis” (00:46).

Jenny Uridge echoes this sentiment, noting the simplicity yet profound impact of setting boundaries around screen usage. She believes that reverting to basics—limiting screens and encouraging outdoor play—can transform modern-day parenting challenges and educational problems.

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Upcoming Book: Executive Functioning Playbook

Mike introduces his forthcoming book, "The Executive Functioning Playbook," scheduled for release on January 9th. This work, alongside a companion workbook, aims to provide parents and educators with up-to-date research on ADHD and executive functioning. Mike explains, “Executive functioning skills are the greatest predictor of success for human beings” (02:12). The book delves into essential skills like self-regulation and self-motivation, which surpass traditional academic measures such as GPA in determining long-term success.

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Understanding Executive Functioning Skills

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the four core components of executive functioning:

1. Self-Awareness:
   Mike describes self-awareness as the foundational executive function that begins developing in infancy. However, it becomes delayed as children spend more time in the virtual world. He states, “Self awareness is one of the first executive skills to develop... but over time it becomes one of the most delayed” (08:56). The excessive use of screens hampers children's ability to recognize their impact on others and themselves.

2. Self-Motivation:
   This skill pertains to the drive to engage in non-preferred or challenging tasks. Mike emphasizes that without self-motivation, children struggle with tasks essential for academic and personal growth.

3. Self-Evaluation:
   The ability to learn from past experiences and not repeat mistakes is crucial. Mike notes, “If you take your son's phone away because he hit his sibling... it's not going to do anything. They're going to hit again” (27:18). Without real-world experiences, children cannot effectively self-evaluate.

4. Self-Regulation:
   Often misunderstood, self-regulation involves managing emotions, behavior, and responses in various situations. Mike clarifies, “Self regulation is it. It's not attention deficit disorder. It is self regulation deficit disorder” (40:19). He argues that ADHD primarily stems from difficulties in self-regulation rather than mere inattentiveness or hyperactivity.

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Impact of Screen Time on Executive Function

Mike passionately argues that screen time is the primary culprit behind the deterioration of executive functioning skills. He explains that screens create a “dopamine zombie” state, where instant gratification replaces the patience and persistence required for real-world tasks. This addiction not only impairs self-awareness but also fosters isolation, depression, and dysregulation among youth.

“Screens are hurting your child's brain. And we are creating these dopamine zombies.” (46:31)

Mike highlights that even academic tools like school laptops exacerbate the issue, leading to inappropriate usage such as accessing pornography or engaging in cyberbullying, further deteriorating mental health and social skills.

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Parenting Strategies to Reduce Screen Time

Jenny and Mike delve into actionable strategies for parents aiming to minimize their children's screen time:

1. Morning and Evening Routines:
   Establishing consistent routines fosters independence. Mike asserts, “If your child's in middle school and high school and you are still the homework secretary... there's no independence gained” (22:38).

2. Homework Management:
   Parents should avoid micromanaging homework. Instead, they should encourage children to take responsibility, thereby enhancing self-motivation and self-regulation.

3. Dropping Off School Devices:
   Mike recommends a bold move—returning school-issued devices to the school to prevent their use at home, thereby reducing screen dependency significantly.

4. Encouraging Outdoor Activities:
   Actively involving children in outdoor play, sports, and social interactions is essential. Mike emphasizes, “Sign them up for after school activities, after school clubs, outdoor play...” (31:05).

5. Parental Involvement:
   Contrary to current trends, Mike suggests that increased parental involvement in children's social activities can fortify relationships and enhance self-awareness.

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Educational Implications

Mike criticizes the integration of technology in education, labeling it as detrimental. He observes that schools' adoption of digital tools without proper oversight leads to misuse and exacerbates screen addiction. Furthermore, standardized testing on screens contributes to cognitive overload, leaving little room for critical thinking and real-world problem-solving.

“This is the worst thing to ever happen to education, period, is the introduction of technology.” (48:31)

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Mental Health Crisis and Screen Addiction

The conversation underscores a direct correlation between increased screen time and the rising mental health issues among youth. Mike shares alarming statistics and personal anecdotes, such as images of memorials for children who took their own lives due to social media pressures, to illustrate the severity of the crisis.

“Social media is the only thing perfectly correlated to this youth mental health crisis.” (48:31)

He attributes the addiction to sophisticated marketing by tech companies, which falsely portray screens as tools for socialization and safety, while they, in reality, foster isolation and mental health deterioration.

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Mike's Insights and Conclusions

Mike concludes by urging parents to reclaim their authority and prioritize real-world interactions over digital engagements. He calls for a collective societal shift to diminish screen dependency, emphasizing that individual efforts must align with community actions to effect meaningful change.

“We have to go back to being a society and being a community again... So our kids can play together, be outside together and withdraw together.” (53:12)

He also highlights the importance of children developing the four core executive functioning skills to navigate adulthood successfully, preparing them for future challenges and responsibilities without the crutch of digital distractions.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mike McLeod at [00:46]:
  “A Thousand Hours Outside is the cure to this horrible youth mental health crisis.”

• Jenny Uridge at [02:12]:
  “Executive functioning skills are the greatest predictor of success for human beings...”

• Mike McLeod at [08:56]:
  “Self awareness is one of the first executive skills to develop... but over time it becomes one of the most delayed.”

• Mike McLeod at [27:18]:
  “If you take your son's phone away because he hit his sibling... it's not going to do anything. They're going to hit again.”

• Mike McLeod at [40:19]:
  “Self regulation is it. It's not attention deficit disorder. It is self regulation deficit disorder.”

• Mike McLeod at [46:31]:
  “Screens are hurting your child's brain. And we are creating these dopamine zombies.”

• Mike McLeod at [48:31]:
  “This is the worst thing to ever happen to education, period, is the introduction of technology.”

• Mike McLeod at [53:12]:
  “We have to go back to being a society and being a community again... So our kids can play together, be outside together and withdraw together.”

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Conclusion

The episode powerfully advocates for reducing screen time to foster essential executive functioning skills in children, thereby addressing the burgeoning youth mental health crisis. Through Mike McLeod’s insights and actionable strategies, parents and educators are equipped with the knowledge and motivation to prioritize outdoor play and real-world interactions. The imminent release of "The Executive Functioning Playbook" promises to further support this mission, offering comprehensive guidance to those committed to nurturing resilient and self-aware future generations.

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Transcript

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[Jenny Uridge]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Uridge, I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and one of your favorite guests is back today. I'm so excited. You have just been a mainstay here and people love your episodes. Mike McLeod from Grow Now ADHD is here. Welcome back, Mike.

[Mike McLeod]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. The fourth episode together. I've been looking forward to this absolutely all week. I am so excited because this is the message that everyone needs to hear. A Thousand Hours Outside is the cure to this horrible youth mental health crisis. And this podcast, these episodes, this message is exactly what we need to hear. All of these parenting gurus and parenting messages and all the parents, their algorithms being filled with parenting information. It's really this message here where an information overload, it is the elimination of screens and getting outside that is the cure. Everything else is nonsense. We have to keep our eyes on the prize.

[Jenny Uridge]

And what a message of hope, right, Mike? Like that's kind of a simple thing, eliminate the screens. I mean, I don't know, I guess into some people it seems like that's monumental. But this is how life used to be. Parents, you know, they set boundaries. Society had boundaries. Just limit the screens, go outside and it just might be as simple as that. It, it might change everything. It changed everything for us. All of these sort of modern day parenting problems and problems in schools, they might just dissipate. Give it a try. There's really no downside to trying, that's for sure. You don't have to spend any money. You just give it a go and see what happens. So you are doing incredible things with grown out adhd. One thing that I'm so excited about is you have a book coming out in January. Tell us about it.

[Mike McLeod]

Sure. So I have a book that goes right alongside with a workbook for parents and educators to really learn about the most up to date research on adhd, executive functioning and what is truly best for all kids and how we're going to end this youth mental health crisis. So it's called the Executive Functioning Playbook. Because remember, executive functioning skills are the greatest predictor of success for human beings. They need executive functioning skills to move out of your house, move out of your basement, get a job, keep a job, make friends, keep friends, live independently. It's executive functioning skills, not gpa, not grades, none of that nonsense. The Executive Functioning Playbook and the Executive Functioning Playbook in action. You can go to Amazon, you can go to Barnes and Nobles, just go into Google and type in Michael McLeod. The executive functioning Playbook. The Executive Functioning Playbook in action. You can pre order it. It's coming out on January 9th and I absolutely can't wait. And after you do pre order it, send me a dm, send me an email, reach out to me and I'll send you over a nice amount of freebies.

[Jenny Uridge]

Oh, I love it. We talk about this some, but I want to always reiterate, pre orders help authors quite a bit and make sure that you get the book because then they make sure they make enough of them. And additionally, this is the content that we need. You are solving problems every single day. You are posting feedback from parents and from schools that's like this changed my life, this changed my whole experience with my child. And so we want more content like this solutions based, hope filled content. And so when a book does well, then you get more of that author's content. So it's called the Executive Function Playbook and the Executive Function Playbook in action. You can pre order those now pre orders help quite a bit. Comes out January 9th, just in time for a new year. Fantastic timing and also some schools I'm sure will be using these resources as well. Talk to us about what you do in the schools.

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah, so that's really my role as I travel the country and internationally training entire private schools, religious schools, home schools, school districts, and I go and I train the entire staff, the school leadership, everyone who comes in contact with the students. On the most up to date research on what executive function truly is. We can't keep acting like executive function is just messy backpacks and messy folders. It's not time management and organization. It is the ability to self regulate and self motivate towards non preferred and non instantly gratifying tasks. That's executive functioning skills. And we live in a world where kids can't do that. And it doesn't matter if they're the valedictorian, doesn't matter if they have a 4.0 GPA and they go to the best private school, the best teachers, the best college, if they can't Deal with boredom if they can't persevere through a challenging tasks. All of that money you spent on therapy, on advocates, on everything that you were doing for this child does not matter unless they have executive functioning skills. So I go in, I train these schools, hands on, in depth on how to bring executive functioning into the classroom the very next day. That's the big thing I hear from the people that are in the audience and is it is practical. I can use it immediately. It helped me with every single student, not just those with ADHD. So go to my website, grownowed.com when I do the presentations. Obviously after January 9th, everybody will have a copy of the book and it's really all about changing the world because our schools are pretty broken.

[Jenny Uridge]

Yeah. And so are our kids. And so here we go. Here's the message. It's going to help fix and you always have just incredible, incredible feedback. I love seeing it on all the types of programs that you do, so people can check that out. I don't know if you remember this, but the first time that we ever connected. And you have a fantastic podcast too. Phenomenal podcast. I want to make sure that people know that. It's called the ADHD parenting podcast. That's correct. Right?

[Mike McLeod]

You got it before.

[Jenny Uridge]

Okay, so phenomenal episodes there, lots of content so you can go back through and you talk about sibling relationships. How do you parent if you have adhd? You've got an ADHD kid, you've got adhd. How about social struggles? What about raising resilient kids? So phenomenal podcast there. But the very first time that we were going to connect on the podcast and we had never talked before, there was a little bit of a miscommunication. It was like, well, are we going to talk first? Are we going to actually record this first time? And you were out actually doing things with kids at a summer camp. It was in the summer. And you're like, well, I mean, I'm with kids, we are doing things. And it just sort of almost reminds you of a, of a throwback to just a few decades ago where that's what summer was. It's like you're out, you know, you're out with other kids. That's what you're doing. And so I love that it's hands on. You're right there in it, you're in the classroom, you're seeing the changes, you're talking to the teachers, the administrators and kids, all of it, and parents. So you just have all of this current information and it's so helpful. I would love to. As we're heading back into a school year, this is a really big time. I think there's a lot, a lot more questions than there used to be. It used to just be who's going to be my teacher, who's going to be my, in my class? And you go look up at the school and you see the list and you know you got a small list of school supplies. So startup school is different now. There's always now the question of technology. Are we going to do a phone and are we not going to do a phone? Are we going to get a, a smartwatch? Are we not going to do that? What are we going to do about technology? What is the school doing about technology in terms of, are they giving kids laptops? You know, how are we going to deal with that? I have a five year old, the school is going to give an iPad. What's going to be our, the way that we use that in the home? How are we going to do after school? There's a ton of extracurriculars. Should I sign up for all of them? Should I sign up for one? It has become a lot less simple of a time back to school. I think it's just a lot more nerve wracking. So I would love to talk about that topic in order to try to optimize executive function because like you say, this is the key. So you talk about really the four core components here, self regulation, self motivation, self awareness and self evaluation. And if we really stop and step back, you know, you think, gosh, I hope I'm okay at those. You are, you are like, oh goodness. And you know, when you talk about non preferred and non stimulating tasks, it's like that's basically the opposite of screens. I mean screens are a 180, it's all of life. Yes, yes and yes. I would love to start off with if we could walk through those four core executive function skills and in this back to school time, basically, I guess how could we make decisions as parents and educators to prioritize these four core executive function skills? So I would love to start with self awareness. That's a tricky one. I'm always like, gosh, am I coming across too strong? Am I too loud? You know, that type of thing. But you talk about the ability to understand the effect you have on others and yourself. Why is that important? Is it kind of broken? What can we do about it?

[Mike McLeod]

It's absolutely broken. So self awareness is one of the most fascinating executive functioning skills because it's the very first One to develop. And it develops. When they're tiny little babies, they start to recognize, hey, when I cry, what happens? Mom comes and helps me out. When I smile in mom and dad's face, they smile back at me. This is true self awareness. When you recognize, hey, I have an effect over my environment. I can do things that change the world around me and that it's one of the first executive skills to develop. But over time it becomes one of the most delayed. Especially when you have a child who. And this is going to be a common theme here with the four executive functioning skills. Like I said earlier, executive functioning skills are the greatest predictor of success for all human beings. These are real world skills. And the amount of hours, the amount of minutes, the amount of time you spend in the virtual world that is delaying the development of real world executive functioning skills. So especially when you have a child who, who just lives in the virtual world, self awareness is going to continue to be more and more delayed. And parents have such a hard time with this. As kids live in the virtual world, they get more isolated, more depressed, more easily dysregulated. Their self awareness really, really delays because they're so used to controlling this character, controlling everything with a swipe of a finger. And when parents call me to learn about grown out services, the number one thing is, oh, oh, I think we have to do parent coaching only. Which is fine. We do parent coaching only because they're just convinced their kid is never going to agree to talk to someone. My son is totally against the idea of coaching, of joining an after school activity, joining a club, calling a friend, going to a friend's house, going to the park, learning a musical instrument, learning how to do art. All he wants to do are things within his comfort zone because they are lacking the self awareness and parents are stuck. Parents have become so unintentionally permissive where they are afraid to make parenting decisions unless their kid agrees with them. Yes, mom, I'll join an after school club. Yes mom, I'll do coaching. Yes mom, I'll call a friend and go to the park together. Yes mom, I'll do my homework with a peer or I'll do this. And parents are stuck in this mindset of my son has to agree and I have to try so hard to convince him. This is what parents say to me on the intake calls is how do I convince my child to do coaching? How do I convince my son to do soccer? How do I convince my daughter to delete her social media? You don't convince them you have to be the parent and tell them what to do.

[Jenny Uridge]

Yeah, because you care about their long term success. It's not just about the here and now. You talk about. These are the most important things for, for their future. We're trying to work ourselves out of a job. So you talked about self awareness for a baby. How does self awareness develop then for someone? So we're heading into the school year. I got a five year old, a six year old, a seven year old. What should we know about that age and them developing self awareness? The ability to understand the effect you have on others and yourself. That's huge because they're going to have a lot of jobs. That's one of the key things that's going on here is we're preparing kids. They might switch their job every two and a half years and so they need to understand the effect they have on others.

[Mike McLeod]

Exactly. And that's one of the biggest pieces of this. And this is why people have to understand that executive functioning is not just school based where, oh, executive functions help me take notes and listen to things and get good grades and learn to study. These are real world skills. If you don't have self awareness, it's going to be very hard for you to make friends and keep friends with social executive functions. If you don't have good self awareness, it's going to be very hard for you to treat your parents with basic respect because you don't understand perspective taking skills. And, and you're screaming and yelling at mom every day. And I'm getting really tired of every single day doing intake calls and hearing about kids physically attacking their parents. It's becoming a real epidemic. And one of the big problems is that parents are so ashamed of their kids behaviors in the home. It becomes this deep dark secret where they're only gonna tell a professional like me over the phone. But it remains a secret of the home which keeps the behaviors going. So they're getting physically attacked every day, they're getting yelled at every day. And in between the physical attacking and the yelling, the kid is on screens all day. And if you're lacking self awareness overall, you know, elementary school is really the time where kids start to develop relationships with peers they, you know, interact with and have a good relationship with. It's no longer kindergarten where we're all friends, we're all family, let's get along. And elementary school is really the true time when you can tell, you can spend five minutes in the classroom and you can point out the iPad kids and the non iPad kids. You can see the kids that are dysregulated, can't sit still, can't handle a second of boredom, are falling out of their chairs like you talk about in previous episodes. Literally just falling out and falling on the ground. You can tell when they're lacking those self regulation, self awareness skills and they can't make it through a basic day of school and a basic non preferred task. And they have these 50 page 504 plans, IEPs that are just growing and growing, that are not moving the needle.

[Jenny Uridge]

And not helping move us into middle schoolers. Because self awareness in middle school, I mean, you know, middle school is a tricky time. I think a lot of people would say it's a really tricky time. But on the other hand it also affords you all of these opportunities to, to interact with other people and to start to learn your effect. What is my, I mean I remember that as a kid or like, oh, people didn't like when I said that, or they like when I say that. These are important things. Like at some point your kid is going to be, they're going to have to apply for a job, they're going to have an interview. We have some good family friends, they just went for an interview. Is it this guy's third interview and he had to travel out of state for it? I mean this. And he's an adult, like with grown kids. And this is a part of your life the whole way through. So we're, we have these 12 years of being around peers in school and through homeschool programs where you start to get to learn what's my effect on other people? And you've talked about this. If the kids have a phone and they're doing this in the hallway and at lunch, they're learning none of that.

[Mike McLeod]

Correct. So in elementary school, kids still have a deep desire to play and to go outside. And you can still bring the kids to the playground or bring them to a theme park and do all of these things. Middle school is where we really see the screen addiction go off the rails. Because now they have the language skills, you know, the conversational skills, the negotiation skills, the argument skills. That's when they start to do the master manipulating and the master negotiating is, mom, you have to buy me the nicest phone. I need an Xbox. I need a PlayStation. I need a switch, I need an iPad because everybody in my class has one. And if I don't have one, I'm gonna be the weirdo. I'm not gonna have friends. And it pulls at parents. Heartstrings every time and they fall for it. The kids are basically puppets for big Tech's absolute masterful perfection. Marketing that screens make kids more social, more smart, and more safe when we know it is the absolute opposite. So it is the middle school kids where you really start to see that phone become the center of their lives. And video games and the Internet and social media start to absolutely plummet their mental health, their self image and all other tasks where their parents are still for some reason letting their kids take their phones into their room, take their school laptops into their room, surf the web. This is where they start misusing those horrible school laptops where I'm. It's my life mission to get kill Ed tech forever. We need to make sure that happens. But overall, those middle school ages is where we really start to see the problems and the addiction go off the rails and parents lose all control of their child. And that adorable, cute little elementary school child baby that you raised and you brought up is now being raised by a screen. And that's where everything goes off the rails. This is where they start, you know, wearing their, wearing their Minecraft shirts and their Minecraft backpack. And everything revolves around video games and the phone and social media and interest in everything else is gone. Why bother do anything else when I have the world's greatest entertainment system on me at all times?

[Jenny Uridge]

And then you're just, you're not that far from adulthood at that point. I mean, you're getting real close. You know, you're seventh, eighth grade, you're four or five years away, you're only a few years away if you're wanting to get a first job, you're wanting to drive, all of that sort of stuff. I read this book recently called Under Pressure by Carl Honore. And he had this thing in there that really stopped me in my tracks because I have sometimes struggled with, you know, as a kid, you know, you wanted to be popular, you want to be cool. You, you know, you want to have this clothes or that thing. And you know, sometimes I look back and I'm like, I wish, you know, I wish I would have had this. I would have been able to wear the guest jeans. You know, I didn't have those. And so sometimes we overcompensate for our kids because it's like, well, we didn't have it. So let's just make sure our kid really fits in. And they have all of the things. But in this, Carl, in Carl's book, he talked about learning how to make do with what you have and I did. It stopped me in my tracks because I thought, what an incredible life skill. We never have everything we want. And especially, you know, you start off in the world, I mean, we had like no money. I mean, like, you hardly have furniture, you know, and it's like, that's not everybody's story. But if it's your story, what a gift to learn to make do with what you have. Look, your parents get you a gab phone instead of an iPhone.

[Mike McLeod]

Oh yeah.

[Jenny Uridge]

You know, learn to make do with what you have. It's actually a, a beautiful gift that if you have no phone, you learn to make do with what you have. You know, we've got these family friends, they don't do a phone until the last semester of senior year. No phone at all. And you know what? They're great. There's just such great kids and they're great to talk to. And what happens? Well, that kid learns to make do with what they have. And I think that's a beautiful life skill.

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[Jenny Uridge]

So we're heading into a school year. Look, we're nervous. There's a lot of decisions that we have to make and things are swirling around. We want to prioritize being self aware. How do we structure a fall heading into a school year to prioritize learning to be more self aware?

[Mike McLeod]

Well, the biggest thing is you have to look at exactly where are you, the parent stepping in too much when it comes to school and it comes to parenting, it's three things. Morning routine, evening routine, and homework. And if your child's in middle school and high school and you are still the homework secretary, and morning routines look the same from September all the way until June. There's no independence gained, something is wrong and it's not working. And if you have a child where still can't get to school on time, still can't do homework, still can't go to bed on time, and they have a phone, and they have the ability to bring their phone into their bedroom, and they have social media, they have video games. Our kids are telling us every single day if their brain is ready for screens or not. And there is a very good chance your child's telling you with their behaviors. Behavior is communication. They're not ready for screens. So one of the biggest themes we see on social media is all of this parenting burnout. We see massive diagnoses, rates of young adults and moms and dads getting diagnosed with ADHD as adults. And everything is about, you know, I'm burnt out as a parent. I'm exhausted. Yeah, there's never been a harder time to be a parent, and that is because of screens. Screens have made things more difficult. Screens have delayed your child's brain development and the development of executive functioning skills. You thought it was okay to give them a screen to quiet them down for an hour or two so you can get a break, but it snowballed into a much bigger problem and in addiction, and that's exactly what it is. So this parenting exhaustion and all of these things that you are dealing with, we need to step in and focus more on independence. It's not about homework completion. It's not about grades. Let the school handle those things. You need to step into your parental authority. You need to back off and remove the screens so your child can experience life. We said in the last episode, one of the greatest advantages you can give your child is, is to not give them a phone. And it sounds so basic and so simple, but that is so true. Life expectancy is all the way into the 80s, 90s. They can go 18 years without a phone, period, and then have it for the next 60, 70 years. They can go 18 years experiencing life and experiencing, experiencing these things. We can't continue to be duped by big text marketing because it's making your parenting far too hard and, and it's causing you to focus on the things, all of the symptoms. Oh, he procrastinates. Oh, he avoids. Oh, he's dysregulated. Oh, I need to get him a tutor. I need to get him an IEP. I need to get him a 504. All of these things, you can focus on all of the symptoms, but if you don't focus on the root cause that your child's brain is not developing for real world skills because they're only in the virtual world, it's not going to go anywhere. And the big trend we're seeing now is, is parents just signing their kids up for every therapy possible. You know, cognitive behavioral therapy, dbt, talk therapy, counseling, occupational therapy, all of these things, it's not gonna move the needle. And all the parents that are sending their kids to talk therapy and the kids are on an iPad on the way to the office, on an iPad on the ride home from the office, and then on video games the whole rest of the day, it's not doing anything. You are. You are absolutely burning money and flushing it down the toilet. If we don't get kids outside and off screens, their dysregulation is going to get worse.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Wow.

[Jenny Uridge]

Okay, so we're heading into a school.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Year, and school year is all about.

[Jenny Uridge]

Math and English and all of these different subjects. But if you could focus on these four things. Self awareness, self evaluation, self motivation, self regulation. This is going to set your kid up for success, not only in school, but also in life. So the decisions that we make, I think, have to be seen through this lens of how can my kid develop self awareness? How can they learn to understand the effect they have on others and on themselves? And obviously they cannot do that with the screen. So you are going to have to put limits, and you're also going to have to make sure that they are interacting with people. Because when you act with, interact with people, then you learn about your effect on other people. Okay, you talk some about self motivation. That's a big one, right? These kids and this homework and their schoolwork and their tests and all of that. The self motivation, self evaluation. That's a really interesting one, Mike. Like, I don't know if I've ever talked to anyone ever about helping a child or any person develop self evaluation. The ability to learn from past mistakes and not repeat them. Part of that is you have to have past experiences, and if you're always on a screen, you're having no experiences.

[Mike McLeod]

That's exactly it. The best way to describe ADHD parenting is every single day is like Groundhog's Day. It's the exact same thing. No matter what consequences you bring in the. No matter what lectures you Tell you can give your ADHD child the absolute perfect textbook lecture like it came from an episode of Full House. You can just give them the best lecture of all time for a behavior they showed and it's not going to do anything. The same exact problem is going to happen tomorrow. If you take your son's phone away because he hit his sibling and you say, I'm taking your phone away for 24 hours, 24 hours go by. You give him the phone back, within five minutes, he's going to hit his brother again. It's not going. They're not going to build the cause and effect. So that's what ADHD is. That's what executive functioning is, is the ability to connect the dots between the past, the present and the future. What do we hear so much about adhd? These kids are so impulsive. They're so impulsive. That's because they're so time blind and their brain is hardwired towards instant gratification. Which is exactly why you can't discuss ADHD without also discussing really debilitating screen addiction. So Big tech wants ADHD kids on screens because that's how they make most of their money. But that's the biggest thing, is how do we connect the dots? Executive functioning is non verbal working memory, hindsight, learning from the past, non verbal working memory foresight, visualizing the future, connecting the dots, cause and effect, thinking if the future looks like that, then right now I need to do this. Executive functioning is the ability to aim your behavior towards the future based on your past successes, your past downfalls. And when you're in complete control on a screen, there's no connection here. You're not building any memories when you have an iPad kid or a video game kid. They graduate high school at 18 years old and you say, oh well, what's your favorite memory? I've had this exact conversation with hundreds of kids. What's your best memory of your high school experience, your middle school experience? And they can't think of one because all it is is beating this game or winning this game or winning this Fortnite round or doing this in Minecraft. They're not having the real experiences. They're not even going out. Schools don't even take kids on field trips anymore because they're a liability concern and they're afraid parents are going to sue or something's going to happen. It's a real mess what's happening out there. And kids are not having the varied experiences. That's the number one thing parents need to think about. When it comes to developing these four pillars of executive functioning skills we're talking about is hours outside of the home. The second your child walks past that welcome mat into your front door. What every single parent who's listening to this can do is instantly the second your child's within the walls of the home, you can subtract 5, 6 years from their actual age. They're instantly going to become a little child in the walls of that home where everything is a secret. You're surrounded by screens, you're surrounded by unconditional relationships. They're going to be at their worst around their parents. Enough of this idea that kids are masking at school all day and holding it all together and then let loose at home. That's nonsense. That's social media nonsense. To make parents feel better about the difference in behavior between school and home. The reality is when they're home, their behavior is getting delayed. You need to focus on hours spent outside the home. So signing them up for after school activities, after school clubs, outdoor play, contact other parents in your neighborhood and get these play dates going. I don't care if they're in high school, get them out and about again. These parks have to be filled. If they're spending time at home, these skills are not developing.

[Jenny Uridge]

Yes, and I think that's the key. The parents have to be involved. And that's maybe the confusing part because my parents were not involved at all, you know, with my social relationships. And if you're a parent today, you know, depending on when you grew up, if you grew up in the 80s, the 90s, maybe the early 2000s, your parents were probably not super involved in your day to day social calendar, but now they have to be. And I think that it just gives permission. It says, hey, that's normal. It's normal that you're, you know, driving your kid. It's normal that you're pushing them out of the house. Like you said, I think about our own entrepreneurship journey and I would imagine yours is somewhat similar. When you go to your website, it is so robust what you offer. It's so cool. Like you're helping the parents, you're helping the schools. You've got this coaching, you're like this person, you know, you have all these employees that are like, this person does this arm of it and this person does that arm of it. You know, there's a grown out young adult independence program specifically designed for young adults ages 60 to 30, 16 to 30, ages 16 to 30, who are struggling to gain independence. And they have concerned parents you have, you know, things for kids who are in college. You have kids for high school, students are preparing for college. So you have done this entrepreneurship thing and met a need and you're helping out in these schools. Well, when you're an entrepreneur, you have no idea what you're doing. For us, like, we're constantly like, that didn't work, that didn't work, that didn't work. I talked to this chef here, he. For the Kindred Farm, he's down in Tennessee. And I was asking him, he's got a really cool. He does catering for like the biggest of the big, you know, these huge events. And I asked him, I said, do you ever have any regrets? And he said, every day. Every day. Because when you're doing things, then you're learning feedback from the environment. You're like, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to change a little bit there. And so it would be really interesting to hit age 18 and to never really have had experience with that.

[Mike McLeod]

That's exactly it. And we are shielding kids from discomfort every day. And they are then being faced with adversity by having to do a math worksheet or read or write or do some sort of academic task. And they're absolutely breaking down and they're having these tantrums and, you know, some of them are trashing the classroom, some of them are avoiding work, doing these things. Obviously, ed tech has been an absolute disaster. I have observed over 500 classrooms over the past year and a half, and every single time kids are off task, kids are. You know, the amount of students that are looking at pornography at school, you know, on the school computer, on school WI fi, the students with ADHD who are basically given school laptops and with open access to the Internet and end up looking things up where then the police have to get involved. It is just absolutely insane what we are doing to kids. And what we have to realize is this youth mental health crisis is new to the past 10, 15 years. And the media has done a great job creating all these false boogeymen of things we need to look out for and things we need to fight after. Okay? All of these issues have been around for a long time. The only thing that is perfectly correlated to this youth mental health crisis is the rise of screens and the decline of play. These kids are hurting. Like, I just saw something online the other day of social media Remembrance Day of all the kids that committed suicide because of social media. And it was a giant field of grass with all these pictures of like stakes of kids, hundreds of kids, hundreds and hundreds of kids that committed suicide because of social media. And parents still, oh, it's okay, he can have Snapchat. What parents have to realize is, let's say your kid is very mature and he has very strong executive functioning skills and he really, truly is ready for a phone. Okay? But we live in a society, we live in a community. And when you give your child a phone, you are fueling the argument to the boy next door, the girl down the street who says to her parents, you have to get me a phone. I'm the only one without it. And all of this parenting fear, that's the number one thing we have to talk about today, is parents are parenting with fear. Every single day. Parents are walking on eggshells around their kids. They are scared of their kids and they know deep down that screens are the reason for their downfall. But they are just scared to death to remove those screens because they know that the behaviors are going to be so bad. And why are they going to be so bad? Because they're withdrawing from a drug. It's not you just taking something away and upsetting your child. It's the exact same behaviors as the alcohol being taken away from an alcoholic or the casino access card from the gambling addict. Your child's withdrawing from a drug. We made a mistake of introducing drugs into our kids lives and pretending like they were social tools. We all got duped by big tech social media and our kids are addicted to drugs. And we are still to this day acting like kids need to do something about it. He just needs to gain the skills so he can balance his phone and his video games and still do hard things. Or the school needs to do this with the Edtech. None of these things are going to happen unless we as the adults do something. Kids can't manage screen time on their own. It's not going to happen. We as the adults need to be parents again.

[Podcast Advertiser]

That's right.

[Jenny Uridge]

So good. Okay, we're heading into a school year. Obviously people have heard about self awareness. They, you know, evaluating their past experience, self evaluation, motivation. So these are the questions you're asking yourself because the parent is the one who sets up the calendar. You are the gatekeeper. You're the gatekeeper in your home for what comes, what goes, what is that going to look like for the 2025, 2026 school year? So you have to be asking yourself questions of does my child have opportunities to learn the effect that they have on others and themselves? Does my child have the opportunity to learn from past because they are actually having some experiences and not just being on a screen. Motivation. We talked about some.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Jenny Uridge]

Self regulation is such an interesting one, Mike, because I don't feel like I ever even heard that, you know, like, yeah, you hear about being self aware. You know, I knew about that as a kid, or being motivated or, you know, evaluating yourself and growing and doing better. But self regulation feels like a word that came out of nowhere. You know, the ability to regulate ourselves, our emotion, our language, our body, our behavior. Does it feel like a buzzword kind of to you too? Like 15 years ago? I mean, I've been a parent for 17 years. I didn't really start to hear self regulation until probably the past six to seven.

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah, and you didn't start hearing these words until the rise of screens. Who was talking about mindfulness? Until boredom became an art. So self regulation is it. It's not attention deficit disorder. It is self regulation deficit disorder. There is no attention disorder. There's no, it's none of this, you know, procrastination, attention, focus, none of that nonsense. It is the ability to regulate your body. It's not hyperactivity. It's self regulation of the body. It's not inattentiveness. It's self regulation of the mind. This is it. If you have a child with adhd, self regulation is what you are dealing with. ADHD is a disorder of the home executive function. Self regulation in the home towards parents. No one gets the worst of ADHD behaviors than the mom. Period. Time and time again, if it's a boy, a girl, a son, a daughter, moms get the worst of it. Because you grab a dictionary right now, you type in unconditional love. It's a picture of a moment. End of story. That's what moms are. It's who they are. It's what they do. Moms get the worst of it. So self regulation, the ability to regulate your emotions, your language, your body, your behavior in various environments, towards various tasks. Can you regulate yourself through boredom? Can you regulate yourself through a social dialogue, being able to stay calm and cool when taking someone else's perspective, when following someone else's lead, or, or do you just need to be in control of every single play activity? Do you need to be in control of every single thing that's happening around you? That's the big thing that kids have these days. And you see all this nonsense about, you know, all, you know, all this, you know, demands placed on kids and all these diagnoses that are being created based on kids ability to constantly looking for control over the situation because that's what we're teaching them, that they do have control, that we're not the adults, that we're the, the parents. So you know, when it comes to developing these executive functioning skills for the school year, number one, morning routine. If your child's late to school, the consequences need to be at school. Somewhere along the line, we taught parents that IEPs and 504s need to accommodate your child, accommodate them and give them more leeway and give them more balance. No, Dr. Russell Barkley said it best. If you want to see an ADHD child fail, put them in an environment with no consequences. And in so many ways that's what we've created. ADHD kids can turn things in late, months late and get no points off. They can have test questions read aloud to them, they can have every possible accommodation and they know they don't have any real consequences if they're late to school. There has to be a consequence at school or they have no reason not to be late. So that's basically what needs to happen. Parents, you need to back off, you know, wake your kid up and then go downstairs, go for a walk around the block, get out of the house if you're there. If you are available in the house in the morning, your child's going to seek you out and look for you. And when you say to them, go put your shoes on, go get dressed, it's far more stimulating to do the opposite of your verbal prompt and to have you chase them around the house and create a whole cat and mouse game and, and have you in the palm of their hand than to follow that prompt. Your kids know what to do. Kids are antifragile. They know how to get dressed, they know how to eat breakfast, they know how to get ready and get on the bus on time. But if you're there, you're giving them the stage, the spotlight, the microphone to run the house. And when it comes to homework, stop sitting with your kid and doing homework with Them, it's the exact same thing. Should I do 10 minutes of this really boring homework or, or should I have a three hour argument with mom and dad where I'm in complete control? They're going to choose the argument every single time. Contact other parents in your kids class, contact the school, drop them off at the library, figure it out where they're doing homework, where you are not. Parents need to fade back so kids can step up. Parents are over parenting because they are filled with, with fear.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Wow.

[Jenny Uridge]

I think that this gives such a good framework for heading back into the school year because if you could just prioritize these four things and I think that we all can step back and think about our own adult lives and see how important they are, like to be able to self regulate. Are you kidding me? Like, you know, at some point then you become the parent. Like you have to know how to self regulate because these kids are going to push your buttons and they're going to be crying and they're going to throw temper tantrums for several years just as part of their normal toddler development. You know, that's going to happen. Like, can you self regul? Like you're investing in, you know, a child that maybe won't be a parent that screams all the time, like, if you can think ahead and that's what all of them are, right? Like, even the self evaluation, can you think ahead toward what might my child need at 27? What might they need at 30 when they're in their third job already and they're having to swap and switch from this to that and they've got a kid at home and they're stressed out. What might they need? And so I know we're going to get the school lists. You know, you need this for the classroom. We're going to find out who the teacher is here, but, you know, put it up on the fridge. How are we structuring the 2025, 2026 school year to prioritize self regulation, self motivation, self awareness and self evaluation? And if you need help, Mike has got the resources for you Grown out adhd, the ADHD parenting podcast. You have this book coming out in January. It really can't come out soon enough.

[Mike McLeod]

I know, I'm so, I'm very, very anx about it.

[Jenny Uridge]

I'm like, okay, could it be here now, please? You know, but it'll be here in just a few months in January. So pre order. It has definitely happened where books sell out. And so like this is, you know, you're like, I want it. And then they're going to have to wait two months for them to do a reprint. So be like one of the first ones and get your pre order. And I'm sure we will be talking more throughout the rest of this year and heading into your book launch. But Mike, this is always so helpful. You give a lot of hope. This is not a 15 step solution.

[Mike McLeod]

Correct. That's really it.

[Jenny Uridge]

Take away the screens and go outside.

[Mike McLeod]

Exactly. Screens are literally. We now know from science that screen time affects the brain. It affects the white matter, the gray matter, the limbic system, the amygdala screens are hurting your child's brain. And we are creating these dopamine zombies. We have to be aware of this. And parents are so obsessed with skills. Why can't he have the skills? Why can't there be a balance? Your child doesn't need more screen time strategies. They need you to start parenting like their future depends on it. That's really what it is. This youth mental health crisis isn't a mystery. It's the result of kids being raised by algorithms instead of adults. We have to really understand what these screens are doing. We fell for this. We all just fell into this mindset of it's normal for kids not to play outside. They all interact on screens. They all interact on video games. We got duped by some of the greatest marketing of all time. We have to go back to being a society and being a community again. Reach out to the parents in your neighborhood and reach out, get on the Facebook parent groups and say, hey, I want to get rid of screens. Who's with me? Who wants to do it with me? So our kids can play together, be outside together and withdraw together. And when September comes around and your school gives you a Chromebook, a laptop, an iPad, if your kids in kindergarten and you know they're going to be on an iPad all day, get a big group of parents together, grab those iPads, drop them off of the front desk and get out of there. Drop them off at the main desk and get out of there. And it is your taxpayer dollars are at work giving your kids brain rot. And that is absolutely ridiculous. This is the worst thing to ever happen to education, period is the introduction of technology. And at the end of the day, it all has to do with retirement plans and pensions and people making sure it's all about money. So because standardized tests are on screens now.

[Jenny Uridge]

Oh.

[Mike McLeod]

We have to give them as much access to screens as possible. This is the worst thing to ever happen. You are not legally obligated to keep that laptop, go to the school, drop it off and say no thanks, I am not having this in my house.

[Podcast Advertiser]

That's amazing.

[Jenny Uridge]

And in all of that, this is the coolest part is as an adult you'll also be learning these executive function skills.

[Mike McLeod]

Got it.

[Jenny Uridge]

As you guide your kids to better executive functioning skills, you're going to have better self regulation because you're going to have to deal with them being upset. You're going to have self motivation. It is non preferred to fight over screens. You know, I mean you're going to be doing the things that are hard. You're going to have more self awareness, the effect that you have on your kids and on your community and you're going to be able to evaluate what worked and what didn't and what might I want for the future. So Mike, wonderful as always. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'm thanking you from all the listeners because we get so much feedback about your episodes. In particular, thank you for spending this time with us.

[Mike McLeod]

Thank you so much for having me. This is, this, this mission is so near and dear to my heart. The more we can spread the word about this mission and you know, get this app on every ph, every parent's phone in America and get every single parent tracking the hours outside that, that, that's it. Until we do something about these screens, nothing's going to get better. And it's just like, like you should hear these intake calls I'm doing every day. Like I literally did an intake call with like a 28 or 28 year old kid for the young independence program. And the mom's like, you know, he needs to learn skills. He, all he does is procrastinate, all he does is delay. And of course then I ask, okay, what is he doing every day? Oh, he's playing video games all day. But like they don't connect the dots between, you know, it's not about gaining skills, it's about you, the parent saying stop playing video games, you're an adult now. And all this. Sign them up for therapy. Therapy, Therapy, therapy. It's not doing anything. People don't realize that therapy is a billion dollar business of client retention. Let me further pathologize your child. It's really scary. Wow.

[Jenny Uridge]

It's really cool what you're doing and obviously you can see it. You can see it with the feedback. So I'm honored to have linked arms. I mean it's funny to think back.

[Podcast Advertiser]

To the first one.

[Jenny Uridge]

You were like, well, I'm out at summer camp.

[Mike McLeod]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Because what happened was, like, I thought you wanted to, like, meet me first and talk to me first.

[Jenny Uridge]

Yeah, totally. Some people do it that way.

[Mike McLeod]

I was, like, totally intimidated. I was like a thousand hours outside, like, this podcast, like, like, am I worthy to be on here? Does she have to, like, interview me first? That was my mindset. I was like. I was like, I think Ginny needs to, like, talk to me first, like, and make sure I'm the real deal, because this podcast is a big deal. And I was like, oh, like, like, oh, my gosh. And then like, I realized, like, like, yeah, like, this is. This is like, you and I are like our team.

[Jenny Uridge]

Yeah, it's really aligned. It's really aligned. And it really is fitting well with the audience. I mean, it is.

[Mike McLeod]

It's rave reviews these last couple episodes. The last one you did with like the Glow kids guy, the doctor.

[Jenny Uridge]

Oh, good. Andrew. And he doesn't have a phone. He's coming back on that. Andrew's coming back on.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Just him.

[Mike McLeod]

It's the best. Every single time I go to the gym, my go to is like, walk to the gym, get changed, go upstairs and put on your podcast. And I like. It's, it's, it's. It's literally like you are heaven sent. What you are doing, you yourself, you as a human being are the cure to this crisis. Period. Period. That's exactly what it is.

[Jenny Uridge]

Wow.

[Mike McLeod]

You were put on this or you were. You were put on this earth to do this? I'm telling you. Like, like, I'll send you the website. That clip I was talking about with the stakes in the grass. Of all the kids who committed suicide, you are the one who's going to make that stop happening.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Wow.

[Jenny Uridge]

Mike thinks it's hard.

[Mike McLeod]

It's the truth.

[Jenny Uridge]

It's hard. I feel emotional because it's hard.

[Mike McLeod]

No, but you were put.

[Jenny Uridge]

People get mad at stuff.

[Mike McLeod]

You were. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? I get hate messages every day. Everybody, everybody, everybody hates me. People are trying to cancel me left and right.

[Jenny Uridge]

That can be what our thing is.

[Mike McLeod]

Oh, my God. Especially. You should see what happens when I talk about pathological demand avoidance. You know I'm talking about pda.

[Jenny Uridge]

I don't. I don't know about that.

[Mike McLeod]

Oh, my. It's a completely fake diagnosis that was created by social media. It's called pathological demand avoidance. Parents are self diagnosing their kid with PDA and the treatment for PDA is to give them unlimited screen time. Don't make them go to school. It will make you want to puke. And when I post, like, pda is not real. This is when all the people are like, cancel this guy. But it's the truth. Even Dr. Russell Barkley took a clip of me saying, PDA is not real, put it on his YouTube and said, I agree with this guy. He's right.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Wow.

[Mike McLeod]

Parenting's not supposed to be this algorithm. It's just, love your kid, set boundaries and send them outside.

[Jenny Uridge]

Mike, I don't know. I don't want you getting hate mail either, but it actually makes me feel a little bit better.

[Mike McLeod]

Oh, my gosh. You have no idea. You have no idea.

[Jenny Uridge]

Like, I'm not alone. And that can be a common bond, too. That's what our event will be. It's like the people you hate. We're going to do an event.

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Come on down.

[Jenny Uridge]

Most hated on the Internet.

[Mike McLeod]

Keep doing what you're doing, you're going to change the world. I think we should just keep doing it. Let's keep recording, you know, once a month and keep spreading the word. And let's change the world together.

[Jenny Uridge]

I love it.

[Zibli Fiber Advertiser]

When the Moore family ditched cable Internet and switched to Siddly Fiber, they got so much more. Mr. Moore got more upload speed for next level gaming and livestreaming to the masses with reliable service. Mrs. Moore is no longer her family's IT guru, leaving her more time to stream games into overtime.

[Jenny Uridge]

Let's go.

[Zibli Fiber Advertiser]

And young Mason Moore got more done quickly uploading HD product demos and video conferencing without freezing.

[Mike McLeod]

The numbers look good. Brad, you're on mute.

[Zibli Fiber Advertiser]

Switch from cable Internet to Zibli Fiber and get more of what you love for $65 less per month than [e-mail].