← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 541: Recess Is Not Optional, Why Our Kids Need More Than 22 Minutes to Be Human | Say Yes to Recess!
00:59:28
Loading summary
Transcript104 lines
- [00:00]
Katherine Truman
It's summer time to enjoy long days.
- [00:03]
Morgan Garner
Lazy nights, and great food because Uber.
- [00:05]
Katherine Truman
Eats has deals all summer long. So when hunger strikes, don't sweat it. Delicious deals are just a tap away on Uber Eats. Enjoy all your favorite grocery items delivered straight to you. Get ice cream soda and snacks from.
- [00:19]
Morgan Garner
Your favorite stores like Wegmans and cvs.
- [00:21]
Katherine Truman
And make the most of every moment. Now that sounds like a good summer order. Now on Uber Eats terms apply. Product availability varies by region.
- [00:29]
Morgan Garner
See app for details.
- [00:30]
Ginny Urch
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urch, and there are some fantastic guests today, three of them, actually, from this incredible, incredible, and incredibly important grassroots movement. It is called say yes to Michigan. Oh, no, that would be nice. It is called say yes. You should say yes to Michigan, but also say yes to recess. Say yes to recess. There's a Michigan chapter of it, and so that's why I was thinking about that. And we're in Michigan, but say yes to recess. Welcome to the team.
- [01:06]
Morgan Garner
Thank you. Yeah, I was going to say Michigan has said yes.
- [01:11]
Ginny Urch
Yes. Okay. This is a huge deal because recess is a huge deal for kids health and well being, and it is getting cut. It has gotten cut so much in the last several decades. Let's take a minute for everybody to introduce themselves. Tell us where you're from and how you got involved with say yes to Recess.
- [01:29]
Morgan Garner
Well, my name is Morgan Garner. I've been a part of this movement since the beginning. Rachel and I met early on, what it's been three years now, probably. And it's very much a grassroots movement. I got involved because my daughter was in kindergarten at the time when I. Well, before Rachel and I met. And I just noticed a massive behavioral shift from. From kindergarten or from preschool to kindergarten. And I just thought, God, something's got to be done about this. And I just kind of flittered around until I found Rachel a few years later. And then. Yeah. And she had posted something on Facebook. And you can tell that story. Rachel. I don't remember the details.
- [02:13]
Rachel
Yeah, so like you said, it was crazy because I thought, you know, I'm hearing other people talk about this, but I had a kindergarten start. My oldest daughter, and she's a very anxious kid, and she would come home, and I said, why didn't you just go outside and take your three deep breaths like we talked about? And she said, I don't ever go outside. And I said, what are you talking about? And I looked into it and thought, oh, that is not okay. And so I started. I started Making phone calls, got nowhere, realizing that's not, that's not cool. So I found a post that we were all a part of and realized there were massive amounts of comments in that post and thought, oh my gosh, I'm not the only one that feels this way. And I found other like minded parents and that's where it began. And Morgan was one of those and Catherine was one of those. And here we are.
- [03:00]
Katherine Truman
Yeah, I'm Katherine Truman. I'm originally from New York, but I'm raising my four boys in Tennessee. And between the three of us, we have 10 kids and all our kids go to school together. So I, I known Morgan just as a fellow school mom through the years. But yeah, when I saw Rachel and Morgan kind of assembling in the hopes that we get more just any type of improvement in the amount of physical activity that is in the school day, I jumped on board. I had originally started like basically unschooling my oldest, but then when I found the program our children are in, it's a Spanish immersion program in a public school setting, I thought it was an amazing opportunity. And there's amazing educators and admin and you know, they're doing their best. But that school day schedule was really eye opening for me. When I really sat down and looked at it and he was getting 15 minutes of recess a day in kindergarten. So again, once I saw Rachel and Morgan mobilizing, I was like this, this has to happen. And we all kind of clicked because our personalities are, you know, we're not, we're just very, we're very kind, but we're very direct and we don't take no very lightly.
- [04:21]
Rachel
We all come from different backgrounds too. Like we're all from a different place. We all have different professions and we found that those have meshed and we, one of us have the skill that we need for the time that we're in. So we're like, oh, that's not my thing, but that, that can be Morgan's and oh, Catherine's really good at that. Or maybe I'll step in there. So it's been really nice to just mesh and start this.
- [04:40]
Ginny Urch
Okay. So our paths crossed because I guess have been involved with say yes to Recess Michigan. Because I spoke at a school board meeting last year about recess in the Plymouth Canton Community Schools, which is the school district that I grew up in. My brother teaches there and my nieces attend. And I had no idea how low the recess numbers were. And they asked if I would come to the school board meeting. They were Talking about it. We can talk about that in a minute. But so can you give us the history here of say yes to recess? And it starts in Tennessee. So this is, you know, the, you know, foundation of it is in Tennessee and then it's now gone off to these other states. Are you working on legislation? Are you just trying to connect with parents? Because it's a big deal that you said, rachel, I make all these phone calls, I got nowhere. And it's like, how can that be? We have, I mean, stacks and stacks and stacks and stats of research about how important it is for kids to go outside and move their bodies and, and socialize and have downtime and release the neurotoxins and all of these different things. So how can it be that when you make phone calls it goes nowhere? I mean, this just makes sense. So talk to us about the actual organization. I mean, it's incredible. It starts from a couple parents being advocates. Now you have this organization. It's, you know, primarily in Tennessee and then now it's going off to other states.
- [05:56]
Morgan Garner
Yeah. Well, we got started in our county, Montgomery County. Like we had said kind of briefly, Rachel and I had assembled. We're like, we got to do something about this. And I remember Rachel in the beginning saying something like, I'm in this for the long haul. And I was like, I am too. And it's rare to find someone who's actually willing to put in effort. I feel like these days people tend to give like a half hearted thing and then they're like, I'm so busy. And I don't know, something about Rachel saying that. I was like, okay, I think we really might do this. Rachel said early on, I had messaged her right before we got started. And I. The last thing we said on messenger was, I think this thing might catch fire. And I felt like it did. But we started by figuring out who the players were in our county. You know, the director of schools, the level directors, the principals, the school board. And we went to every single one of them. It took two years of us advocating on that level. And our county decided to go to 30 minutes, which felt like a big win for us because they weren't allowing it to be taken away as punishment. But they weren't really telling the teachers not to. The teachers were counting transition times. That was a big part of it. They were taking it away as punishment. I think I already said that. And so these kids, their recess was getting whittled down to like five and 10 minutes, which is absurd for elementary age Kids and middle school doesn't even get recess. And so we did that for two years. When we finally got the 30, our administrators kind of laughed and said, well, if you want more, you're going to have to go to the state. Wow. And we were like, roger that. And so we did.
- [07:43]
Rachel
Yeah. To speak to your point about saying no, like I told Morgan, I was in it for the long haul. And I am currently, I think we all three are in this for the long haul. That's where CS Recess began. Because even though you could say we somewhat succeeded, right. We passed a law or we increased recess in our county, we're still here because I think people are still after it. And that's why we want to extend this movement to say, listen, now there is a group that we want to go nationwide in every. So please don't come after it. Right. Just because you just gave it. Because Tennessee had. We. We did have a lot more recess in 2016 and 2017. They changed it. So we were like, you know what? We can change it back. And we did. And so there's got to be a group dedicated and a voice loud enough. But that's. That's where I'd say, like, we are in it for the long haul. And you will get no's, but eventually you'll get yeses.
- [08:34]
Ginny Urch
Wow. Yeah. What a commitment. Two years to get to 30 minutes. Can you give us, the listeners, a state, a picture of the state of recess in the United States? So, obviously, I think. Well, was really interesting when you both said, Morgan and Rachel, that once you set your kid off to kindergarten, you were kind of shocked. I think that that's one of the tricky parts is that we don't realize how would you know if you went to school and then, you know, 20, 25 years later, you send your child to school? That's not really that long of a time. So you're like, well, I remember having three recesses in the Plymouth Canton Community Schools. In elementary, we went out in the morning, we went out at lunch, and we went out in the afternoon. And the recesses were long enough to get lost in play. Because I had this experience, I distinctly remember, where I was out with my friend Teresa, and they had these big tires that you could kind of climb up in. And we were out there, we were talking or playing some sort of a game. We were so immersed in our play that we didn't hear the bell ring. And we came in like an hour later. I just remember, because I was terrified I was going to get in trouble. And it ended up not being a big deal, but the recesses were expansive. It never felt like, oh, it's already over. Oh, it's already over. It was a good amount of time. So I don't know how much time it was. Is it 30 minutes in the morning, 45 minutes at lunch, 30 minutes, 45 minutes in the afternoon? It was well over an hour of our day. Went to socialization and being outdoors and.
- [09:56]
Unknown
That type of thing.
- [09:56]
Ginny Urch
I hardly remember indoor recess unless it was maybe like lightning. Other than that, I don't remember indoor recess. So can you give us a picture of what is actually going on? Especially for the parents that have kids that are like three and four and they're kind of shocked, they don't really know what's coming?
- [10:14]
Katherine Truman
That's a great question. I love that you shared a recess memory too, because that's something we do a lot in our discussions with academics, educational components. In all our meetings, we love to say, hey, do you have a memory of recess? And everybody just gets this nostalgic, like, look on their face. And like you said, when you really talk about it with people, we all had a significant amount more than what kids are getting right now. And that's what we're trying to kind of peel back here is say, hey, guys, you know, in Tennessee, the law was 15 minutes a day.
- [10:50]
Morgan Garner
I.
- [10:50]
Katherine Truman
We spread so much awareness just in our state about that. And now, like you said, in other states, we're finding the same issue. They might have a little more recommended, but they don't have an actual recess like law mandating an amount of time. So that gives schools that room to do less or take it away, for instance. And we. There was this group of academics that have been working kind of, I don't want to say behind the scenes, but they've been working, trying to sound the alarm on this for years. And they said there's a lot of correlation, but not necessarily causation data on the decline. But over the past, I want to say 20 years, it has decreased to now we're at an average of 22 minutes a day nationwide.
- [11:43]
Ginny Urch
Ah. For the whole school day.
- [11:47]
Katherine Truman
The whole school day.
- [11:49]
Ginny Urch
They don't even do that for adults. Don't you? I don't know. I remember working like 8 hour shifts, and I was like, you got a break and it wasn't 22 minutes.
- [11:57]
Rachel
Yeah, that was something we actually brought to their attention, like Katherine said, was awareness. And one of the things points that hit home with our school board and media was we were breaking our own labor law in Tennessee, it was adults got a 30 minute break for every six hours of work and our kids were getting a 15 minute break for every. Now the average school day is supposed to be six, but ours was six and a half. And some Tennessee counties go longer than that. They give seven. So we were actually breaking our own labor law.
- [12:26]
Ginny Urch
Wow. And that's an interesting point. You talk about the average school day and people say six hours, they say seven hours. But, but where we lived and at the point when our oldest was hitting kindergarten, I was paying more attention. The bus came at 8 and it didn't come back till 4:30. Now, obviously a lot of that is transition time. That's being on the bus, that's, you know, waiting in line till school starts and that type of thing. But the, the child is gone often for more than six to seven hours. And you know, that bus time is not like recess or, you know, these different pizzas are not, they're not play time so often. They might even be gone for longer than that. Dr. Peter Gray talks about how a third of the school day, a third in the probably 50s and 60s was recess. A third?
- [13:11]
Rachel
Yeah.
- [13:11]
Ginny Urch
So that would be two hours.
- [13:13]
Rachel
Yeah.
- [13:14]
Ginny Urch
What a shift from two hours to 22 minutes over the course of several decades. So, okay, that's a good picture of what's going on across the country. Average is 22 minutes. Obviously, I know the answer to this, but let's land here for a long time. Why does it matter?
- [13:30]
Katherine Truman
We scoured recess research and we love your work, we love your content. So much love Dr. Peter Gray. We reached out to so many amazing people in this field. We've talked to Dr. Kathy Ramstetter, Dr. Michael Massey out of Oregon State. I mean, we could name a lot of people. At the end of the day, there's no research that says that adding more physical activity, especially unstructured play, is a bad thing. And it sounds so simple. But we had a lot of those points that really hit home in our meetings with legislators. We did come back to a program out of TCU called the Link Project a lot because their data is awesome. The numbers speak for themselves. And Dr. Debbie Ray went and actually studied the model in Finland and kind of brought it back and created the Link Project. L I I N K. And she started implementing this in schools. And she didn't discriminate. It was put in charter schools, public schools, private schools. Over 10 years of data is available through her project. Again, the numbers speak for themselves. The disruptions in the classroom decrease. Let me go Back to, she implements 60 minutes of physical activity in a school day. So. And that is broken up, but still they're getting the amount of time that research recommends is necessary, especially at that elementary age level. I mean, even things like the CDC recommends 60 Minutes, but the country is not doing that. So her numbers are, are amazing.
- [15:12]
Rachel
Yeah. And like you said, I mean, it's funny because Finland is like this world. Like, you just look at Finland and you're like, oh, my gosh, that model is amazing. Right? Please bring it, Please bring it to the United States. And, and the ironic part, like you said, was they took it from us. In the 50s and 60s, Finland actually studied our model and said, what are they doing? Right. They're revolving their day around physical activity and they took our model and now we're trying to, like, please bring it back. Right. So it's sort of painful that we were there at one point and we've lost it. And like you said, there's books and stacks of research and scientists rarely agree on topics. And you could say maybe this is one of the few topics that they do all agree on that you can't. You know, there's thing is like, you know, you can't. Well, we're given too much recess. It's like, no, they all agree recess is so, so, so important. And so I think our, you know, one of the main reasons is sometimes science isn't. We're realizing science isn't getting us places like we would want to. Right. The science is there and we're begging people to listen to the science. Right. So we sort of have to stand up and just be a voice for those kids when the science isn't getting through. Right. And say, this is the right. This is the right thing to do, you know, to make a kid sit down and is it just painful to hear? I mean, it hurts my heart. You know, I think that's one of the reasons too, is, you know, research combined with passion. I think we can get there.
- [16:32]
Ginny Urch
Yeah, for sure.
- [16:35]
Unknown
If you're like me, you've probably had a moment or two where you thought, instead of mastering cleaning cloth diapers, I should have been learning to code. Or maybe I should have traded in that old coin collection and started buying bitcoin before it was cool. We might be the FOMO generation, but here's one thing you don't want to miss. Protecting your family's future. For around the cost of one of your streaming services, you can take a simple step toward financial peace of mind with Select Quote I love Select Quote because they make life insurance simple. They have helped over 2 million people find the right coverage by comparing plans from top rated companies tailored to your health, your lifestyle and your budget. And they do it for free. Even if you've never looked into life insurance or have a pre existing condition, Select Quote can help. Some policies offer same day coverage for up to $2 million. No medical exam needed.
- [17:17]
Ginny Urch
Don't wait.
- [17:17]
Unknown
Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours as summer winds down, I've been thinking ahead, refreshing my wardrobe with staple pieces I'll actually wear on repeat. And Quince has totally nailed it. Their luxe essentials feel effortless, look polished and are perfect for layering and as the weather shifts. I've loved their European linen fit and flare midi dress this summer. So comfortable and stylish. And I can't wait to get my hands on their cotton and cashmere sweaters. They look so soft and cozy starting at just $40. I've also been eyeing their washable silk tops and classic denim timeless styles that mix and match easily and make me feel put together whether I'm hosting a podcast or out for a walk with the kids. What really stole me on Quint is the value. These pieces rival high end brands, but quints cost half as much because they cut out the middlemen and and work directly with top artisans. The quality is incredible and everything is made in safe, ethical and responsible factories using premium fabrics. Honestly, I'm already eyeing a few things for the fall, especially their travel bags in a silk blouse that's been sitting in my cart. Elevate your wardrobe essentials with quints. Go to quint.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U I N C E.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns to quint.com outside okay, tell me I'm not the only one who has opened the fridge at 5:47pm, had multiple kids yelling they're starving and realized the only thing I've got ready to go is string cheese. I get it. Meal time can feel like a full contact sport when you've got little ones. Someone's always boycotting a certain vegetable, someone else wants a second dinner and I'm just Trying to make sure everyone else actually eats. That's why I seriously love Nurture Life. Nurture Life is a meal delivery service made for parents like us who want to serve healthy, balanced meals when life gets a little busy, but without the tears and the stress, Their meals are made fresh every week. They're fully cooked and they're ready in no time. And the best part, my kids actually eat them. No bribes, no negotiations. Last night they devoured the chicken meatballs and mashed sweet potatoes, and I may or may not have eaten half the Mac and cheese myself. It's that good. Nurture Life meals are crafted by registered dietitians. They're allergy friendly and they offer over 50 options and including snacks and smoothies. So head to nurture life.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55% off your first order plus free shipping. That's right. 55% off plus free shipping. Once again, that's Nurture Life.com 1000hours55 and make sure you use my promo code. 1000hours55.
- [20:02]
Ginny Urch
Okay, let's talk about the change here. Let's talk about the fact that in the 50s and 60s, so less than a hundred years ago, a third of the day goes to recess. We two hours and every single day. And from a common sense perspective, that seems like that would be a win, win for all. It's certainly a win for the kids who are built to move and who really flourish through play. It seems like it would be an amazing win for the teachers. I mean, right, like if you, if a third of your day the kids are off playing and maybe you have a chance to catch your breath. I mean, teaching is such an exhausting job. And maybe you have a chance to get your emails done and you have a chance to do your lesson plans and your grading and all of that stuff. So it seems like it would make sense. So I would love to talk about why and where this change happened. It's interesting because we talk about this kind of often that society used to sort of just naturally be set up in this. It was set up in this way that promoted childhood, a healthy childhood. There was less screens, there was less toys of things to do inside when kids just went out and played. It's sort of how society was set up. And I think because of that, in part, no one really talked about the benefits of it. It was just like, well, these kids are getting in my hair, so I'm gonna shoo them out the door and they're gonna go Play with the neighbor kids. No one was like, you know what? This is really good, and they're not gonna develop myopia, you know. You know what? This is really good for their cognition. This is really good, you know, to release the neurotoxins. Kim Jong Payne says, when they play, you know, it helps their body to release these things. So no one was. I didn't grow up. No one's like, you should go ride your bike, you know, because this is going to protect your brain function. I mean, it was like just what you did. And I think that possibly there's a whole generation of people or several generations of people who don't actually know the information. They just think it's frivolous. And so if there's a point where there's an opportunity for there to be a lot more academics, you know, now there's teachers, pay teachers, and there's all these websites, and you can get all of these lesson plans, and you could just fill the whole day. It's like, well, why not? Because nobody really understands the undergirding of why play is so important. So we have gone from, you know, two hours a day, a third of the school day that's dedicated toward recess, to an average of 22 minutes across the country. Can you explain why? What happened? Why would there be such a big change?
- [22:22]
Morgan Garner
Well, society has changed, as we all know. Have you read the Anxious Generation? I imagine you probably have. I think a lot of your listeners probably have. Jonathan Haidt talks a lot about height. Jonathan Haidt. I think that's how you say it. He talks a lot in his book about how the iPhone coming out, smartphones coming out in 2010 made a massive shift on children's behavior. And also parenting parents started giving their kids phones as like a means, almost like a babysitter, I think, in the way sometimes we use television. But the difference with television is that's more communal. And a phone is right in front of your face, and it sucks you in. And it's built to be addictive. And just starting from that, like, and then you add Covid onto that, of course, that's like fast forwarding 10 years. But we're all stuck at home, and parents are giving their kids devices so they feel they can connect with their peers. And in turn, I don't know if you've sat too long on your phone scrolling through Facebook. I certainly have. I feel sick. Like, I feel bad if I do that for too long. And. And you had asked about, like, you know, why can't we have an hour or whatever, longer for recess. The kickback that we're hearing is like, who's going to pay for the extra teachers who are going to supervise or, you know, how are we going to do this? Logistically, they've missed something. That's really sad that's happened within our education system, I think, as a nation, is that they have lost sight of the whole child and they're so focused on learning. But the thing is, if they were adequately teaching in the way that a child develops our children, our test scores would be through the roof. So there is a miss here. Like, something is not adding up. And there are definitely some states that have better than others, and they're doing in schools that are doing better than others. I'm not trying to, you know, knock the entire nation, but it's just. It's not working.
- [24:30]
Katherine Truman
And.
- [24:30]
Morgan Garner
And what we found is a lot of the older teachers are really, really supportive. Like, of course this is what needs to happen. And the younger teachers are more like, yeah, I. I get it, but how am I going to get all this done? The older ones are like, screw the system. Yeah, screw that. We'll get to what we get to. And the younger ones are like, oh, but I'll get in trouble if. If I don't do this. And so I think it's. A little bit of experience is going to help some of these people who feel hesitant about it. I know with the Link project, a lot of the teachers that were interviewed were like, I didn't want to do the Link project. And then when they got into it, they understood how important that 60 Minutes was a day, and it really made a shift.
- [25:13]
Rachel
I also, to add to Morgan's point, I think we're seeing, like, a systematic shift as far as, like, what you. What you were saying. To your point. It's not just one thing. So, like, when we were younger, there were no phones, right? So you say, okay, well, funds are a big part, which they absolutely are. A huge part. We're seeing very scared teachers because it's sort of ingrained in them. It's a systematic thing. Like, you have to get this math and this reading, and if you don't, there are consequences. Right. Because the test scores are low. But I think it was a. It's sort of like a puzzle piece. If you look at this puzzle piece and this one, it' if you combine phones with. In the early 2000s, no child left behind, which put a strong emphasis on test scores, right? There are no test scores attached to recess, so it's sort of like when you look at all the pieces, you say, what can be lowered? Well, there's no attachment here. There's no fiscal attachment here. There's no fiscal note. So it's easy, it's easy to get rid of it from an administrative, administrative point. And so you say, we got it. We got to just concentrate on the things that bring us money or the things that we can prove that they can, they know math and reading and it just sort of falls. Falls by the wayside. And I don't. And that's why we have to realize it helps every other subject. And then we hear people say, well, you know, they're not learning. And we're like, oh my gosh, they, they're absolutely learning. They're learning soft skills. It's not a versus thing. It's not math versus recess. It's not reading versus recess. Like recess is learning and it's teaching the soft skills that we're losing because of the phones and then we're losing. So I, I think it's, it's systematic. It's this piece and this piece and this piece and combined it is taking recess away.
- [26:41]
Katherine Truman
And I think like that question of why was a huge driving force in the three of us in our meetings. We met with educators, we met with admin, we met with legislators, we met with lobbyists, educational lobbyist groups. We tried to meet with everyone involved because we were asking the same thing. Because one of our big lines is like, this is a no brainer. So then the next question is why? And what we kept finding is by the end of our meetings, when we would present and have that discussion, that individual or group or panel, they usually came to our side. Whether they were going to do that in a loud way that was not. That remained to be seen. But they all could not argue with what we were saying. So then again, like Rachel was saying, we started realizing everyone. I mean, this isn't to be said in a mean way, but everyone's kind of hypnotized right now by instructional minutes and this kind of timeline that was created for like a kindergartner. Like I said, my son didn't enter school until he was almost 8. And that was okay. You know, he didn't miss anything crucial, not going into school at 5 years old. So I think that's part of it. It's just we're trying to have those real discussions, parent to parent, legislator to parent. You know, now we represent an organ. Our organization is officially a nonprofit. So we're just really trying to spread the word and kind of shift that mindset.
- [28:13]
Ginny Urch
Okay, these are great discussions. I want to talk about three things that you brought up between the three of you. One of them was you talked about logistics. They're like, well, what are the logistics? So the idea would be you just call an old teacher, like one that's like 70, be like, how'd you do it? You know, they're like, we don't know and how would we staff it? It's like, well, the teachers are already there. You could probably just like switch off. There we go. You know, it's like, you know, that's what you do sometimes. It's like play dates, right? It's like we're going to take these three families of kids to this one person's house and then tomorrow they're going to go to the next person's house and we're just going to rotate through. I mean, the adults are there, obviously. So logistics. I mean, it's kind of a silly response, but I also get it if you're not used to it, right? If you have no context for that. So then all you have to do is ask the people who used to do it. Some of them are still alive. So there we go. You can find out the logistics. I really like that you brought up the fact that teachers are scared. Because I had that experience. So I go to the school board meeting and you get three minutes to state your case. And it's at the end of this hours long meeting. That's so boring. I mean, you have to sit through, you have to get there at the beginning. And which I almost feel like this is. These are people who are concerned about their children in a district. And I'm like, they do it that way on purpose. I feel like they're trying to dissuade you from having a voice. So you have to get there before the meeting starts. You have to turn in a piece of paper that you're going to want to have a time slot. It's not like you can come in late. And then you're there for hours and hours and hours where they're talking about the budget for this and the, you know, whatever. And then you get three minutes, you go up and speak. And one of the things that happened that was so eye opening is this old teacher from the district that he was like a, like my brother's teacher in high school. He came in, he came back and he was a voice for the teachers. And he had all, you know, he only had three minutes, but he was like this anonymous teacher from such and such school says this. This anonymous teacher from such and such school would like you to know this. And that was what he did. All he did was come and be a voice for these teachers who were scared to say anything. It's like, how could we be in a society in America, in the, you know, where as someone who is in charge of children for, you know, the majority of the day, for the better part of childhood, how could we have a society where they're scared to advocate for the kids?
- [30:41]
Rachel
That's a great, great question. And I will say, like, since we started this, we've had teachers, Several. Several teachers come to us, some anonymous, not, but they'll, like, secretly send us a message on Facebook and say, hey, just. Just so you know, there's this too, and this too. And so we're trying to be a voice for the teachers as well. And my sister, I have a twin sister who is a. Who. Who was an elementary school teacher for nine years in the public school system before she left and actually started a forest school. And she always said, hey, listen, teachers have a say, but parents voices are louder. I'm not trying to sway the topic from scared teachers. I'll get back to that. But she was saying, sometimes you can make bigger and greater movement as a parent than you can a teacher because a teacher's in the system, right? So she was saying, hey, teachers have spoken up, and not a lot has been done. She's like, I've talked about recess a lot in the three public schools that I was at, and it really just didn't go anywhere. And so she was saying, try to be a voice for those teachers. And so what we have is we tried to do that, and we've talked to several, Several teachers who are on board with us, but again, they are scared. And I asked an administrator in our county, I just. I looked at him and I said, can you please, please answer this question and say, you know, in the state of Tennessee, there's only two requirements. There's RTI and there's physical activity. The rest are recommendations. But there is this comment that everyone hears all the time, well, we can't do this because of state mandates. We can't do this because of state mandates, right? And we're like, we figured out in our journey, they're not mandates, they're recommendations. And so we said, hey, why won't anyone lower those recommendations? What are people so scared of? And he said, well, you know, they tell us the recommendations, but the end of the day, if our Test score is lower. Right. That risk is too high for us. So I think it's state pressure. I think it is. I think it's admin pressure. I think it's state pressure, which is unfortunate. And so I think we as parents. And money. Yeah. We tried to stand up and be a voice for those teachers because they're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Because when they do speak up, they're scared.
- [32:46]
Ginny Urch
Yeah.
- [32:46]
Rachel
So we're not in the system. So parents can have a louder voice.
- [32:50]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. And there are issues. Tenure, you know, and you're a younger teacher, you come in and you're not tenured. And it takes the whole. I don't totally know what's going on with that at this point, because I've been out of the classroom for quite a while. But you have these years where it's like you feel like you have to toe the line. You might get in trouble. There's people coming in and observing you. And what I noticed, because I did spend a year in administration, what I noticed a couple things. First of all, there was such a push towards standardization. So I. This is the things that. These are the things that I don't think I would know except for having these couple touch points. I assume that teachers have autonomy. They had autonomy when I was a kid. That's the whole point. It's like you send. Often you send your child to school based off of your own school experience. Well, what was that like? It was like. It was free play. There were stations. The kids played out. We played outside a lot. We played tag, you know, and the teachers. It was like every single classroom was different. And you knew that because in an elementary school, if you're in the third grade, it was like the things that were up on the bulletin board right outside the room were different. So it's like, well, that third grade class is obviously doing something different. That third grade classes, the teachers got to pick. And when I was in this administrative role my last year in the public school system, there was this push that every single classroom all the way down gives the same assessment. They give it on the same day. So it's become so much more standardized, almost like robots, you know, the teachers have lost a lot of their autonomy, a lot of a chance to probably take their wonderful skills that they have with children and implement them in the way that they see fit in their. Probably almost their intuition. And then they're scared because of these test scores and because of their. Their own assessments from the higher ups. And I'm Talking so much. I. I am. I think this is a really big deal. Also, the decisions always come from admin. So there's some administrative person might be right up at the state level. Right, Rachel, like you said, it's trickling down. Where is it coming from? But it's never made by the teachers. The teachers do not choose. And they're just told, like, the instructional minutes thing. If people would just see that. It's like 8 minutes for this, 12 minutes for that. It's like, well, what are we doing? These are kids. Like, why are we. Why are we doing it like that? Like, there's no, like, free flow. And, you know, I mean, I was shocked. And it was like. And it's like down to the minute, you know. So, though, teachers are not. I mean, in some places, probably some teachers are a part of that, but you basically get handed down these edicts from on high, and it's like, well, now you do this. So to your point, the parents would be helping the children, obviously, and that's a generational impact, but the parents also would be, I think, taking a load off the teacher. Teachers, because if the kids behave better, if they get more time to play, the teachers get a little bit of a break. It's something huge that you are doing for the teachers that they really cannot do for themselves. So that was one. That was another thing. I want to bring up one more because you use the phrase soft skills, Rachel, and I hate that term. They are not soft skills. They are the skills of the future. They are life skills. So first of all, complex movement enhances the brain structure. So that's not a soft skill. That's actually academic movement. So I remember in recess, and I was not very athletic, and all my friends did gymnastics. Gymnastics. They were in gymnastics. But we would go out to the monkey bars and those parallel bars, and I could do all sorts of tricks. I mean, I am the most unathletic. I fell out of a hammock recently, and I was like, I'm stuck. I'm upside down, and someone will have to rescue me. I mean, I. That's just. I'm not athletic and. But I could do all sorts of stuff out there on those monkey bars, and I could hang upside down and cross my feet and flip off. And when you're upside down and your head's out of an upright position, that helps to develop the vestibular sense. And so beyond all of that, all that cognition stuff, the life skills are the relational ones. Especially in a rapidly changing world. How do we relate with other people, our peers that are going to be our co workers someday. So it's interesting to me how we word those types of things. To me, if you've got math and reading set, which in many cases it's not, it's not like it's even working. It's not like it's like, well, we went down to 22 minutes and guess what, our test scores are through the roof. So we're just gonna stick with it. It's not the math and reading scores are abysmal, but if you can get the math and reading down, then I think the rest of the time pretty much should be going to play. You know, you can slip in your science and slip in some of your history and let's do art. You know, obviously anything hands on. But those skills are super important for when we send our kids out into the world.
- [37:32]
Unknown
One of the hardest parts about parenting today is the constant wondering, are they safe? Did they make it? Do they need me? That quiet worry can creep into everything. And while we want to give our kids more freedom, we also want the peace of mind that comes with knowing they're okay. That is why we love Cosmo. Cosmo makes a kid smartwatch called the Junior Track. And their newest model, the Junior Track 5, has real time GPS tracking, messaging, calling and even step counts all packed into one simple, safe device. It gives your kids a taste of independence while giving you the confidence to say, go ahead, you've got this. What makes it so different? You stay in the driver's seat. There's no Internet, no social media, and every contact must be parent approved. It's thoughtful tech that helps parents relax and kids thrive, especially when they're out exploring, playing and growing up in the real world. Right now, Cosmo is running an amazing back to school deal. Plus free shipping and a risk free 30 day guarantee. Head to cosmotogether.com 1kho to grab one today. That's cosmotogether.com 1k ho.
- [38:35]
Rachel
On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or.
- [38:41]
Katherine Truman
Sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this.
- [38:47]
Rachel
So whether you're sharing the streaming password.
- [38:49]
Morgan Garner
In the family chat, or trading those.
- [38:51]
Katherine Truman
Late night voice messages that could basically.
- [38:53]
Rachel
Become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family.
- [38:59]
Morgan Garner
No one else, not even us.
- [39:01]
Rachel
WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [39:04]
Ginny Urch
Mom, dad, you should shop Amazon for back to school and save some money. See, I'm currently obsessed with superheroes and need all the superhero stuff. Superhero lunchbox, superhero backpack. But next year it'll be something else. Maybe dinosaurs, I don't know. I'm not a fortune teller, but I can tell you not to spend a fortune and shop. Low prices for school on Amazon. K. Good. Chat Amazon. Spend less, smile more.
- [39:35]
Rachel
Yeah, so the reason I said that is it's funny because. And this is what we've brought up in some of our meetings, I'm actually a professor, and I teach seniors about to go into the real world to get a job. And I find myself, over my 10 years of teaching, I'm teaching more and more. Okay, don't say that. Don't email it that way. And not skills like they, they. These seniors have lacked the reality of looking someone in the eye at an interview. And so I find myself teaching soft skills and not hard skills. And I've looked into this, and if you look at the top Fortune 500 companies, they interviewed about 100 of those CEOs, and like 97% of them said, we would rather sit down and have lunch. Know that we can sit down and successfully have lunch with this person and have a conversation. They can join our team. We can teach them the skills. We're not, we're not worried if they're too behind on those skills. What we're worried about is we can't teach them to be a better person, you know, and we can't teach them to be nice. And so that's the thing. Recess brings about those skills that these huge companies are looking for. And the hard skills can be taught. And they. They're even saying that. So I think even, you know, maybe I'm not teaching elementary school, but I will say it trickles up. I mean, so this can help even job readiness at such a young age?
- [40:49]
Ginny Urch
Absolutely. I mean, the technical skills, and those are going to change all the time. So depending on what type of job you get, the technical skills of what you're going to need are going to be rapidly changing. And so it's like, are you a person that can be adaptable and can you take risks? And are you, you know, do people like to be around you? All of these things matter, and those are the types of things that are learned on the playground. Rachel, what an interesting job. So you're working with college seniors.
- [41:14]
Rachel
Yeah. So it's funny because, you know, occasionally people will say, oh, are you. You know, I'll say, I'll teach. And they, they sort of assume because of this recess journey that I've taken that it's elementary school. And I said, no, it's not. But what. What. What I've learned is that it's affect my teaching seniors. So, like, I've read these books and I'll read about these games and these things that you can do on the playground. And I thought, why? Why am I not doing that with seniors? And so I started playing games. We play a game a day in our classroom, and they've loved it. And. And something that my sister, too, said. They're just little kids at heart. And so we had. I had students this year. It was a senior class on Valentine's Day. And I said, hey, do you guys want to bring back those little mailboxes that we used to do in elementary school and everyone bring each other valentine? And they went crazy. They wore red. They were like, this is amazing. You know, and so I think, like, no matter the age, even adults, I mean, sometimes we like games, we like play, and we sort of lose that as we get older. And I've realized that even me bringing a little bit of play back to the college classroom has really helped seniors. And so I think it's just important for us to look at play as a serious thing. I know that sounds ironic, but that's how I feel.
- [42:24]
Ginny Urch
Oh, I love the Valentine's. I want to make a Valentine's box. You know, honoring their humanity. And what if we forget when we make it just all about academics? Okay, can we stay there? I am really fascinated by this, Rachel. Is it actually a class that you're taking to basically, like, get ready for the real world?
- [42:41]
Morgan Garner
So.
- [42:42]
Rachel
Yes. Yes. So to give you a little bit more about me, I don't even know if I really said this at the beginning. So I am a professor. I've got four kids. I teach in Clarksville, Tennessee. I teach graphic design. But the classes I teach are actually seniors. So there's two classes specific that I teach for real world. So it's just internships. You go take an internship. But another class is actual, like, soft skills, and it's called Design center, where I actually give them a person to work with outside of the classroom. It's not a teacher giving them an assignment. It is here as a client. You go work with them. And 90% of my efforts in that class is how to speak, how to communicate. It is not designed this way. Send it this way. Here's this file. It's not that the students have that down. What they don't have down is, why did you send a text message outside of business hours? That wasn't Perfect. You know, it's like these common sense things, looking someone in the eye, shaking someone's hand. We do this game where we, you know, start a timer for five minutes. And I play a role, a personality, so they get to know the people, not the skill. And they really like that they can pause the timer and get a lifeline and they sort of help each other because I'm trying to teach them about different personalities.
- [43:53]
Ginny Urch
Yeah, so because to your point, at some point, the education wheel stops at some point. And I remember this from my own life. It's like really a tricky time. You spend kindergarten, right. 5, often to 21 or 22, sometimes longer 25, depending on your level of degrees that you get. So 5 to, you know, 18, 22, 25, 26 in this sort of system that's prescribed for you. And then it's like, see ya, good luck, you know. And I just remember feeling terrified.
- [44:26]
Morgan Garner
Oh yeah.
- [44:27]
Ginny Urch
I'm like, I don't know anything else. What the heck am I supposed to do? I don't know how to find a job. I don't know how to interview like all of those types of things. It just, you're kind of, it just the bottom drops out. And so to have these skills. And I almost think, I wonder who came up with the term soft skills and hard skills because it's misleading. It's just misleading. It just makes soft. Oh, doesn't really matter. But I'm, you know, I think in a lot of ways those skills, especially today, maybe not, you know, decades ago, but they, they matter quite a bit. So this is incredible what you're doing. Does anybody have anything else they wanted to add there?
- [44:59]
Morgan Garner
I actually was gonna say we've gotten a ton of press lately and you had asked us a question if we got legislation and we never answered it. And I'll let Catherine explain more about our state in a second, our state advocacy. But we've gotten a bunch of press which has been incredible and it's ignited this movement. And a recent article that was written by Zachary Barnes talked about, I thought this was so such a perfect example. He talked about how recess is watching self regulation in action. And he said, I love this example. He said games like freeze tag help with impulse control. I mean, here we are, I'm working with my 6 year old about impulse control because he's 6 and he's a boy and he's got so much energy and never occurred to me to make him play freeze tag. And I'm. But that those are the things that they can Learn on the playground if they have time and when they don't, you know, they barely have enough time, as Catherine always says, to start a kickball game.
- [45:55]
Rachel
So.
- [45:57]
Morgan Garner
But yeah, we took this and we went to the state and we did get legislation and it's been incredibly exciting and wonderful.
- [46:07]
Katherine Truman
Yeah, I say picking teams for a kickball game takes 10, 15 minutes alone. So that was our whole recess period prior to passing our legislation. But when you were talking about those skills, I also wanted to say as a parent, even just, it just affects our daily rhythm when the school day contributes to the daily rhythm of the family. I mean, what more can you ask for? Again, I have four boys, so I love when they're outside moving because they come in and you know, they got their heart rate up, they had some fights out there, they wrestled it out some is, I lose that, I use a term loosely. They have a lot of wrestling matches out there and they come in and they're, you can tell when they're regulated. And in the middle of the school year, I can see in, you know, especially my 10 and 8 year old, they are not regulated. And I'm really hoping that this change that, you know, contributes to just a better rhythm for them and that they look more forward to going to school. And again, like you said, that the teachers have a better rhythm for their days and for their bodies.
- [47:18]
Ginny Urch
Yeah, yeah. It was interesting that you brought that up, Catherine, because you know, you talk about the school day contributing to the rhythms of the family. And Angela Hanscom, she's someone I quote a lot. She's a pediatric occupational therapist. She wrote this phenomenal book called Balanced and Barefoot. And she was seeing how the, you know this, the kids are struggling, right? Their, their skills are declining, their mental health and well being is declining. And so she said quite a bit that three hours a day is the ideal amount of time that every kid of, of all ages through teen years should be outside every day. In fact, we would all be great, I think, if we all were able to do that. And parents say so often, but how am I supposed to do it? We both work and our kids are in school and so we don't, they don't get home. I mean like I said, the bus came home at 4:30. Where I, where we lived when our oldest was a kindergarten age. 4:30. Well, you know, you probably want them in bed by seven or eight. They've got to get their rest. They're little. And if you've got dinner and you've got homework, homework is now getting younger and younger, you don't have it. You don't have three hours. You don't have it at all. Even if you were like, I'm going to take every minute of it. You don't have it. So what if the school could take one of those? And then maybe if you add on, if you're able to, to walk there and back, that's half your time. So, I mean, it's a, it's a really big deal. The school should be doing that. They should be contributing to the rhythms of the family. So I love that you brought that up, Catherine, and someone else brought up a while ago, transition time. That was something that was shocking to me. So in the school district that I was talking about, they were like, well, the kids get 45 minute lunch recess. Well. And so some parent was like, well, can you please tell me exactly how that's broken down? Because they have to walk to the lunchroom, they all have to go wash their hands. They have to stand in line. I remember that. Where you got to stand in line to get your food. You got to figure out where you're sitting. You have to actually eat your food. Then you have to throw your tray out and. And then you have to probably, we're in Michigan. Maybe you have to go get on your snowsuit. How long does that take? Does that take 20 of the 45 minutes? Does that take 30 of the 45 minutes? Are kids not eating because they're so desperate to get outside to play? This is their first opportunity. And they didn't know.
- [49:14]
Katherine Truman
Yes, they didn't know.
- [49:15]
Ginny Urch
The person didn't know. And I love what you said, Morgan, when you said, it never occurred to me to let him, to make him play. This is how you said it. I wrote it down. It never occurred to me to make him play freeze tag. And what's so interesting about that is that no one has to make any kid play anything. Yeah, just do it. I mean, every kid. And you're like, how do these things even get transmitted down, you know, generate. I'm like, my kids know like all those little hand clap things. You know, they get bored and they're like, you know the one where you go like this and that's all cross body movement and like learning through rhythm and it's, it's, you know, in community. And I'm like, what? These things just get passed down? Like every kid knows freeze tag and then they come up with their own little rules and things. But I think that's Dr. Peter Gray's work. It's like, the kids are biologically designed to push that forward, and they're learning for mastery. And there's. I mean, reasons. Probably don't even know that. That why that is so important for their growth and development. And what an incredible thing that what kids naturally do without any instruction is good for them. It's good for their development.
- [50:18]
Morgan Garner
Yes. And I think something that a lot of parents struggle with. I know my husband struggles with this, and we've had conversations about this, is he's not naturally a player. He doesn't know how to really. He can do things like throw ball. He can be silly. But sometimes he struggles with, like, what do I do with the kids? You know, and you don't. You're not responsible to be the leader of their play. But I have found that kids want to watch tv, but I'll have days where I go, nope, we're having a TV free day. I try to be really good about monitoring, you know, how much they get. But I'll say, no, TV free day. And they will sit around for a good 45 minutes and complain to me about how bored they are. And I go, oh, I love it that you're so bored. And they're like, that's so mean. I'm like, no, boredom breeds creativity. And at some point you're going to get so sick of being bored that you're going to find something amazing to do. And I think that a problem with where we are as a society right now is we have lost boredom because we have so many devices and so many things that allow us to escape reality, that boredom has become uncomfortable. And if you don't sit in that discomfort, I mean, as with anything, as with grief, as with working through a problem, anything, if you don't allow yourself to sit in it, you'll never push through it. And it creates resiliency and all that. And I think that for parents who are not good with play, think about the things that you can tolerate. Like, I'm not someone who wants to sit and play Barbies. I have never played Barbies with my daughter in her entire life. But I'll sit there and I'll create a scene, a visual scene, and set up her. She has American Girl dolls, and I'll set up her furniture and. And I'll help her make a little set design. And then I've noticed I'm sitting there next to her, and all of a sudden she starts playing. And it's like this. You just got to find a way to connect, I think. And then you kind of Sneak out of the room, and all of a sudden they're in this whole other world. Yeah.
- [52:24]
Ginny Urch
Yes. And it's so important for them. I mean, gosh, they have to be able to use their imaginations. There is a statistic that says 85% of the jobs in 2030 have not been created yet. Oh, I don't know. I can't really wrap my head around that. Like, how can that possibly be true? I can't be right. You're like, it can't possibly be. But then you're like, you look at AI and that's less than five years from now. Even if it's only 15% of the jobs haven't been created yet. You're like, these kids have got to be able to use their imaginations and be creative and pull out of a situation where they're told what to do all the time. And those schedules really look like that. 12 minutes for this, 15 minutes for this. And guess what, kid? You have this innate ability to. To know what your body needs. You're going to get 20 minutes, 22 minutes is. We got to change it. So there have been so many parents who are desperately wanting this, and they feel like they can't get anywhere. And so what an incredible thing that you have done to create this parent organization now where the states can. Can start to feed into it. And I know there's certain states that are already up and going. Michigan is up and going. New Hampshire, you talked about. Give us the details about how to get involved.
- [53:29]
Morgan Garner
Well, so we turned say US Reassess into a nonprofit in January. We did launch several states of. Sorry, I interrupt. I think Catherine was about to say something, but. Yeah, so that's. Contact us. Say yes to Recess.
- [53:43]
Rachel
Yeah, I was gonna. So I'll let Catherine speak to whoever got started, who has gotten started also to talk about how to get started. So just simply contact us. One of the three of us will answer. We're on social media, email, website. And then once you do, we'll sort of go through a couple formal steps. And then once you become a chapter, we provide consulting resources, so design petitions, media releases, things that really helped us. We give some media advice. And then all the chapters meet once a month. And then we meet with individual chapters as often as we need to. But I'll let Kathryn speak to who is already up and running.
- [54:22]
Katherine Truman
I love that you brought up Michigan, Jenny. And we have Katie Bennett and Chanel Talbert that head up our say yes to Recess Michigan chapter. They're doing amazing work. They're Already meeting with legislators there. So we're really hoping for big things in all the states that we're working with right now. We do have six chapters and we have parents that find us in all different ways. They'll say, hey, I saw you in this news article, or I saw you on this podcast, or I came across a post on social media and what you were saying or what I read really resonated with me because that's what we're finding. This is resonating across the country. So Michigan's doing amazing things. We have say yes to recess New Hampshire, we have Texas, we have Ohio, Georgia, and we have a strong group in Wisconsin. All these people that are coming to us are from different backgrounds. They're incredible professionals. Right now we just have moms, but, you know, open to any parents, of course. But our organization is, is made up of community members, educators, just whoever this resonates with. But like Rachel said, you can contact us usually through social media is the best way. Say yes to recess on Facebook and Instagram. And then we also have an opportunity for you to email us on our website. Say yes to recess.com and we also share the bill that we got passed here because I think the aspects of our bill are really important. So all the states have a different situation and a different playing field, different players, but we found it really important. We went for 60 minutes. We went big. We were like, we want to do what the research says. So our goal was to have two 30 minute periods. Through that process, we spent a lot of time, did a lot of legwork. At the Capitol meeting after meeting, it had to get amended in order to pass a bill to 40 minutes, but we were not going to go below 40. So. But the schools do have the option of doing two twenties at this point. Again, we're not done. Our work is not done. Yeah, we want to get what the kids deserve. But our bill had some really cool bill language. It was, you cannot withhold it for punishment. You cannot withhold physical activity for punishment. You cannot start the clock during transition times. It has to be when the play actually starts.
- [56:49]
Ginny Urch
Yes.
- [56:50]
Katherine Truman
So we're sharing all these things with our chapters. Just, just what we would say in meetings. The flyers that we would use that will all be available to you. And, and we, we, we look forward to working with more states in the future.
- [57:04]
Ginny Urch
They're going to fall like dominoes. That's what's going to happen. You brought up Jonathan Haidt earlier, Morgan, and you started to see then some of the schools are like, we're banning phones and it just starts to fall like dominoes. You just need a few and then the other ones, you know, that's what they really want anyway. And so it almost like it gives them permission and a path forward. So a nonprofit, you can also give. Give, right? That would be helpful. You could give financially, I'm sure, if it's a non profit to help with what's going on. So we're talking about better focus for kids, healthier bodies and minds, improved behavior and grades, lower rates of depression, happier, more engaged classrooms. There are so, so many benefits here. My friend or my. Katie is my brother's friend. Isn't that fun? Yeah, it's so cool. So I love that. I love just the, you know, sometimes the world is small and you end up with all these connections. So what you are doing is incredible. It's what so many parents are looking for, which is something a little bit bigger than them that they can join into to start to make changes for their schools because so many parents want these changes and they don't know what to do. So this has been such a wonderful opportunity. We just have a very little bit of time left. But we always end our show with the same question. I'm going to just alter it a little bit. So the question is what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside but have it be a recess memory.
- [58:15]
Morgan Garner
Dominating on the tetherball court.
- [58:18]
Ginny Urch
Morgan, I am going to come play you because I'm also really good.
- [58:21]
Morgan Garner
I'm tall and I just remember that sweet once you knew it was like about three times round and you just smacked it and smacked it and smacked it. That was my favorite.
- [58:33]
Ginny Urch
I love tetherball. I think it's really good exercise. I actually want to install one at my house because we did this camp last year. It was like a 1000 hours outside. Like it was at little cabins up north in Michigan is up north at the UP Sunrise Cottages. So we did this 1000 hours outside trip and we did a tetherball tournament and I won the adult one.
- [58:51]
Morgan Garner
Amazing.
- [58:53]
Ginny Urch
So if I ever see you in person, Morgan, it's on. It's on.
- [58:57]
Morgan Garner
Are you right handed or left handed? Because that's.
- [58:59]
Ginny Urch
I could be either. I'm just kidding. I'm right handed.
- [59:02]
Morgan Garner
Okay, good. It's hard to play a lefty when you're a righty. I'm righty too.
- [59:05]
Rachel
All right.
- [59:06]
Ginny Urch
I'm gonna be practicing.
- [59:09]
Rachel
Catherine, you have your.
- [59:11]
Katherine Truman
So I always say, because we talked about logistics and such. I went to a Catholic school in New York. And we had a parking lot, so we had to be really creative. But wait. And it was even slanted. So we, it was really just still full of good recess memories. Honestly, we did double dutch. Was a big one. I remember again, a great workout. I mean, you would get back to your desk and you would just be like exhausted. So I want to bring back double Dutch.
- [59:43]
Morgan Garner
Yes.
- [59:45]
Rachel
Oh my gosh. I have so many besides like not breaking, dislocating my shoulder in the, what you call it? The Red Rover. Red Rover. Oh my gosh. They, you know, like you are just, you know, me and my twin sister, my twin sisters left handed and we would like totally rock the left hand, right hand type thing and just like shove these, these boys back. But that was actually ironically, in middle school, not elementary school. We had middle school recess. And I remember playing Red Rover outside. And I remember we'd go outside in this field and we'd take our shoes off, which is weird. I don't know why I remember that. But we would have middle school recess and I remember we had at least 30 minutes. We'd go out there, we'd take our shoes off, and we would play the boys in Red Rover. I don't, I don't know that that's such a weird memory, but that I, I remember it, so it stuck with me and I thought it was fun. So bringing Red Rover back.
- [60:34]
Ginny Urch
Wow. But your body touc is the earth. That's what I'm saying. Kids have good intuition. Like to take your shoes off. It's probably a really good idea. Incredible. This has been incredible. I'm so thankful for what you're doing. Someone needed to do it and it was you. The three of you did it. And so this is just, I mean, just started in January. The nonprofit, the overarching one, already have all of these chapters and so people that are listening can reach out and get one going in your state and you'll know that the benefits, these, this is like people, they won't know your name probably, but like 50 years from now. Yeah. At some point the recess, the pendulum swung back and it was, you know, it will be because of you and it really, really matters. So thank you for what you're doing and thank you for taking the time here today.
- [61:18]
Morgan Garner
Thank you.
- [61:19]
Katherine Truman
Thank you so much.
- [61:20]
Morgan Garner
And one more thing. You had mentioned fundraising and. And yes, we do fundraise through our nonprofit, but we've also partnered with Activate Act IV 8 number 8. Mike McDonald started that company and they provide recess boxes. And the goal is for it to be accessible for all children. Like you know any, any child could use the equipment in this box and it, it helps create good leadership opportunities. There's more information on our website. I don't, I'm not great at explaining the boxes but they have incredible recess equipment and our kids all love them and we always donate to our kids classrooms. We're coming up on a new school year and we're gonna be buying boxes for our kids so those are on our website as well. And Activate has offered to donate a hundred dollars for each box to go towards say Estheresa. So that is a really maybe if you don't want to just donate money you can donate a box and it can be sent to your kids school and you're also helping our cause which is really fun.
- [62:21]
Ginny Urch
Love it. It love it. This is fantastic. Thank you so much for being here.
- [62:24]
Morgan Garner
Thank you.
- [62:25]
Rachel
Thank you so much.