1KHO 545: Trying to Figure Out How to Juggle All of Life’s Plates | Tara Sun, Overbooked and Overwhelmed

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast – Episode 1KHO 545: Trying to Figure Out How to Juggle All of Life’s Plates | Tara Sun, Overbooked and Overwhelmed

Release Date: August 9, 2025
Host: Ginny Urch, Founder of 1000 Hours Outside
Guest: Tara Sun, Author of "Overbooked and Overwhelmed"

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Introduction

In the premiere episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Ginny Urch welcomes Tara Sun, the author of the newly released book "Overbooked and Overwhelmed: How to Keep Up with God When You're Just Trying to Keep Up with Life." The conversation sets the stage for exploring the pervasive issue of overwhelm in modern life, especially among parents striving to balance multiple roles.

Understanding Overbooking and Overwhelm

Tara Sun delves into the core themes of her book, emphasizing the modern dilemma of overbooking and the resultant feeling of being overwhelmed. Ginny introduces the topic by highlighting Tara's relatable experiences as a new mother juggling her book launch with family responsibilities.

Notable Quote:
Tara Sun explains, “Sometimes I can go too far to the extreme, where you say no to everything for selfish reasons or whatever reason it may be... limitations are actually liberating” (02:01).

The Power of Saying Yes and No

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the delicate balance between saying yes and no. Tara emphasizes that every affirmative decision inherently involves a negative one, acknowledging the fear and discomfort that come with pulling back from commitments.

Notable Quote:
Tara articulates, “...when I say yes to something, I'm also giving a no to something” (03:15).

Challenging Hustle Culture

Ginny and Tara critique the prevailing hustle culture that glorifies busyness and constant activity. They discuss the psychological toll of trying to keep up with societal expectations and the importance of creating personal boundaries to maintain mental and emotional well-being.

Notable Quote:
Ginny reflects, “When you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. It’s a good reminder that yeses are also nos” (05:16).

Embracing Sabbath and Creating Space for Rest

The conversation transitions to the concept of Sabbath, exploring its biblical origins and practical applications in modern life. Tara shares insights from her book on how intentional rest and creating space can lead to deeper connections with God and overall life improvement.

Notable Quote:
Tara highlights, “Sabbath was a day where people stopped everything... It’s an act of trust” (13:38).

Managing Technology and Reducing Distractions

Addressing the distractions wrought by technology, Tara discusses her personal struggles with morning phone habits and offers practical strategies for minimizing digital interruptions. She underscores the importance of retraining our cravings and creating physical separations to enhance focus and presence.

Notable Quote:
Tara shares, “Scrolling in the morning is about wanting to numb out... we're just trying to distract ourselves from what is ahead” (19:45).

Dealing with Social Comparison

Tara delves into the detrimental effects of social comparison, particularly amplified by social media. She elaborates on how comparing oneself to others, especially idealized portrayals, can exacerbate feelings of overwhelm and inadequacy.

Notable Quote:
Tara states, “We try to fit their circumstances and what they can do into ours, and it’s just not the same” (31:07).

Cultivating Resilience and Perseverance

The discussion shifts to building resilience and perseverance as antidotes to overwhelm. Tara emphasizes the importance of faithful perseverance and small, consistent actions that contribute to long-term well-being and prevent burnout.

Notable Quote:
Tara explains, “Resilience is just faithful perseverance... building that muscle of grit” (51:47).

Personal Reflections and Additional Works

Tara briefly touches on her previous work, "Surrender, Your Story," and her podcast, "Truth Talks with Tara," highlighting her mission to help women live out God's word through authentic relationships and practical advice.

Closing: Favorite Childhood Memory

To wrap up the episode, Tara shares a heartfelt childhood memory of growing up on her family's hazelnut farm, emphasizing the lasting impact of outdoor play and connection with nature.

Notable Quote:
Tara reminisces, “I loved driving around on a four-wheeler, chasing my brother through the fields, and moving pipe” (55:54).

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Key Takeaways

• Boundaries are Essential: Learning to say no is as important as saying yes to manage overwhelm effectively.
• Sabbath and Rest: Intentional rest can enhance spiritual and emotional well-being.
• Reduce Digital Distractions: Practical steps to minimize phone usage can significantly improve focus and reduce stress.
• Avoid Social Comparison: Understanding individual circumstances helps mitigate feelings of inadequacy.
• Build Resilience: Consistent, small actions foster long-term resilience and prevent burnout.

Conclusion

This episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast provides a comprehensive exploration of the challenges associated with being overbooked and overwhelmed. Tara Sun offers insightful strategies rooted in faith and practical wisdom to help listeners reclaim their time, set meaningful boundaries, and cultivate resilience. The conversation underscores the importance of intentional living and the profound impact of slowing down to appreciate life’s simple, yet beautiful, moments.

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Links and Resources Mentioned:

• Book: Overbooked and Overwhelmed: How to Keep Up with God When You're Just Trying to Keep Up with Life by Tara Sun
• Previous Book: Surrender, Your Story by Tara Sun
• Podcast: Truth Talks with Tara
• Books Referenced:
  • Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper
  • Read Aloud Family by Sarah McKenzie

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Note: This summary excludes commercial advertisements and non-content sections to focus solely on the meaningful dialogue between Ginny Urch and Tara Sun.

Transcript

[Ginny Urch]

This summer, try the new Strato Frappuccino blended beverage at Starbucks. It's the classic blended iced coffee you know and love, now topped with a creamy layer of handcrafted brown sugar cold foam. Available for a limited time. Your Strato Frappuccino is ready at Starbucks. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and there is a new friend here today who has just written a fantastic book. It's already out, so if you want to go get your copy, go get your copy. It is called Overbooked and Overwhelmed. This is very relatable. The author, Tara sun, is here. Welcome, Tara.

[Tara Sun]

Thank you so much, Ginny. I'm so excited I talked to you about this before. I've loved your work and your books, and I'm grateful to be here, and I know the conversation's gonna be amazing. You've taught me so much, and I'm excited to share and also learn. So thanks for having me.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, I'm so thrilled you're here. And this is so timely because it's called Overbooked and Overworked, or over. Did I say it wrong at the beginning? It's over.

[Tara Sun]

I don't think.

[Ginny Urch]

Overwhelmed. Overbooked and overwhelmed. And we are in, like, launch week for you, which is always really exciting. So I'm sure you're podcasting and talking to all sorts of different people, and you also have a baby, so this is kind of how life goes. So that makes the book relatable because you're in the middle of it, just like everybody else is. And you talk about some really interesting topics in this book. I would like to go over this topic of saying no. One of the things that you talk about in this book, and I guess even more so than saying no, is you talk about how, you know, at some point we're. We're making these decisions like, this is a breakneck speed. I can't keep up with it. I've got to pull back. But you talk about how when you choose that, it can often feel scary and uncomfortable.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

Can you talk about how you work through pulling back? I mean, this. We. It is hustle culture.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. We are at scene.

[Ginny Urch]

Such a fast pace, especially with technology. And so it's a conscious, conscious choice to say, I'm going to pull back a little bit. And it does. It feels scary.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah, it absolutely does. One thing I say in the book, though, because there's so many messages of boundaries and whether you're A Christian or not just in the world. There's just so much discussion about boundaries. And what I've learned is that sometimes I can go too far to the extreme, where you say no to everything for selfish reasons or for whatever reason it may be. And so a chapter I dedicated to in this book and the title is the Power of Yes, yes, and no. Because I want to include the word yes. Because of course, we feel overwhelmed and overbooked because we often have fomo. We're like, I don't want to miss out. I have to be involved, I have to serve. I have to pour out constantly, right? And so we're saying yes to the extreme right, where a lot of life does have to require yes, but a lot of life also requires our no. And something transformative for me, Jenny, was when I realized that when I said yes to something, this seems really trivial. Like, duh, Terry, you should know this. But when I say yes to something, I'm also giving a no to something, right? So let's just take an example of I took a trip a little bit ago to go speak at something, but I left my kids for a few days, right? So I said yes to that opportunity. But, you know, you have to say no to maybe taking your kids somewhere, doing something with them for a season, right? That's the trade off. Or if I say no to that opportunity, traveling for work or doing something, my yes is that I get to be home with my kids. My yes is that I get to be in my four walls and using that time there like there is both ends of the spectrum. And I think so much of us feel like we have these good intentions of, I want to serve people, I want to live out my calling, I want to entertain my kids, I want to make sure I'm giving everyone a good life and all of me. But we have to really analyze our motivations. Like, why am I saying so much of a yes? Is it because I want to keep up with hustle culture? Is it because I want to be perce as someone important and busy? Or is it because I really feel like that is the right move for me and for my family? And so I think another thing I say too, last thing I'll say on this is there's a line in this chapter that says limitations are actually liberating, meaning we don't have the capacity to do everything at once, and we don't have the capacity to do everything with excellence and do it all well. If we're doing too many things, too many yeses, then we start to see that work kind of dwindle in its efficiency, in its purity, really. So limitations, I think, is really hard for us, especially as moms, to accept, especially as women to accept because we hold so many things, but we can actually see them as liberations. To be like, okay, if I say no, and I know I can't do that capacity, in turn, I'm able to do whatever else is in front of me with some more excellence, with some more energy, you know, it's so tricky. It is, it's so tricky.

[Ginny Urch]

It's just like there's not enough time. That's how I feel. I'm like, I need more time. And, you know, I think your point is such a good one that when you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. I had an opportunity to speak at this. I mean, it was like so fun looking tarot. It was like some mom, you know, mom's thing or whatever. I was like, well, of course I want to go. And there was a dinner, like a speaker dinner the night before it started. It's on my daughter's 16th birthday. So if I say yes, well, then I'm saying no to being around on my daughter's 16th birthday. So it's like, well, I can't pick that, you know, so it's such a good point and such a good reminder that yeses are also nos.

[Tara Sun]

Right.

[Ginny Urch]

And, and you really need to think through. Is that what you really want? Is the. No, what you really want and.

[Tara Sun]

Right.

[Ginny Urch]

It just gives you a pause to, to think more deeply about the choices that you're making.

[Tara Sun]

Absolutely. And I think even just one thing to, to piggyback off of that is this isn't a conversation to say never do anything for yourself or never do anything outside of your kids. I think people, it has been convicting for me, especially in my busy season. I have a three and a half year old boy and a six and a half month old boy. You know, really, really full. We're chasing little littles. And I, I, I've realized that it's not just about me when I make those decisions. Um, there was a moment maybe a year, two years ago. My husband is very social as well, but he has a little bit lower of a social battery. He will tell you that. And there was a, there's a moment where he's like, tara, we had something to do out of the house every single night this week. He's like, that's, I'm not, like, I'm not okay. Like I can't do it. And so he, like, vocalized that to me. And I realized that, like, I may have the capacity and I'm excited to do all these things out of the house, but, like, I have to think about my husband. I have to think about my kids. I have to think about, like, have they been going to bed at 11pm every night? And like, is it not. I mean, or maybe not that late, but, like, have they been going to bed, like, way later and then they are suffering the rest of the week because they're exhausted and spread thin? Like, my decisions also affect the health of my home, the health. Health of people around me. And that's been really convicting lately.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, it's so important, Tara, because you talk about that we should, if we can, to strive to be less rushed, to live a little bit more rhythmic. And to your point, you live this period of life where you really are just focused on yourself. Hopefully you're focused on your immediate family growing up. We're, like, trying to be better about that type of thing or, you know, but we live in an individualistic culture. So, you know, you're kind of like focused on yourself. And. And when you get to this spot where all of a sudden you have to weigh another family member, a spouse, some kids, you need more time to figure out how is this going to affect everybody. So to your point, I think the benefit. One of the benefits of being less rushed is you have a little bit more capacity to start to think through how will these decisions not only affect me, but will affect these other people.

[Tara Sun]

Absolutely. It really. It really takes humility. It really takes self sacrifice and surrender and being like, okay, wait. And. But. But I love that you mentioned, like, it actually gives us margin to think because when we're overwhelmed and overbooked that. I mean, overbooked and overwhelmed. The title of the book. Like, we. It's so hard to make decisions, like, mentally. It's so hard for us to even, like. Like the other night, I'm like, ask my husband, what do you wanted for dinner? And I couldn't even conceptualize it. He's like, okay, we have this to eat. Like, we have this meat. What can you make from it? I'm like, I don't know.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, yeah, you're in the middle of a book launch, right?

[Tara Sun]

Yeah, it was so debilitating. And so. But like, when we give ourselves more space and we're not like, so crammed in our days and our schedules, it gives us the mental breathing room, the emotional, the spiritual, all that space to Actually think about the things and not let them, like, take us to the edge, into the end and burn ourselves out. Like, I've been at that point where, like, every little thing sets me off. But when you live at a different pace, it actually. It's a little more doable, right? Doesn't mean it's never going to be hard, but it's a little bit more sustainable.

[Ginny Urch]

But you say, okay, you're going to switch to this slower pace, and it can feel scary and uncomfortable. You say, do it anyway. Does it get easier or is it always tricky?

[Tara Sun]

So I would say what's always tricky is the circumstances, right? Like, what's always tricky is what's going on around you.

[Ginny Urch]

You're missing stuff.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. No, I mean, and it's. You can't control what's going on. Right? You can't control politics. You can't control what's going on in the world. You can't control health crises. You can't control what's gonna happen with your kids to an extent. Right? And there's just a lot of things you can't control. So I think that's tricky. But I used to believe that life was life and that I am always gonna feel this way. I'm always gonna feel overwhelmed. I'm always gonna feel stretched thin. I'm always gonna feel like my faith and the most important things to me are gonna have to take the backseat. And because everything else is more urgent. I used to believe that, but it's taken me, granted, maybe a couple years. It's taken me a couple years to see that I actually can make this more of a sustainable thing. And it actually gets easier, right? So now I actually crave rest. I crave white space. I crave all of these things, and I have made time for them. I used to say, I don't know what sets my soul on fire as far as hobbies or if my husband would give me some time away from the kids. I'm like, I don't know what to do. And, like, you just. I just didn't know. And the more you get creative about it, the more you give yourself, Yourself space to think about it, the more you crave it. I even personally believe, with my faith, like, it's just biblical, that the more we get to rest in God's presence, the more we get to rest in nature, in using our hands to create something to be bored. I mean, you know this, Ginny. Like, the more our bodies actually have a reaction, our souls do, too. But, like, we actually start to crave it because it's. It's what's good for us. Right. But just like a diet, just like any of those things, that craving initially is really hard. Right. Like you have to kind of retrain. And we talk about this in the book. You're going to have to retrain your cravings. You have to retrain yourself to desire the right things. But then when you do, your body, your spirit, your mind starts coming along because it's what you were made for. Huh.

[Ginny Urch]

So, yeah, it definitely gets easier because you're going from a spot where you're uncomfortable, this is scary, to actually craving it. So you write in this book. It's called Overbooked and Overwhelmed. Plan for Space, Plan for Nothing, Plan for Open Days. This gives you the space and energy to not only be expectant for surprising moves of God, but to have moments of connection with God. Life improves as we give more space to what matters. So then you talk about. I was just talking to a friend about this the other day, Sabbath. And you quote Justin Whitmill early.

[Tara Sun]

Love him. Has he been on the podcast?

[Ginny Urch]

He has. He hasn't book out. You're so.

[Tara Sun]

I have it.

[Ginny Urch]

Love it.

[Tara Sun]

I have it in my cart. I have it in my Amazon cart. Okay.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, get it. It's called the Big Mess. Your three and a half year old son will love it. It is.

[Tara Sun]

Yay.

[Ginny Urch]

And I love it. It's like got a little bit of a. He called it a pentameter or, I don't know, something about a drummer.

[Tara Sun]

But it was so smart. I don't know.

[Ginny Urch]

I know it's got like a good rhythm to it. It is delightful. It's a fantastic kids book. So he says Sabbath is a whimsical rebellion against the idea that work is the only important thing in the world. That's pretty deep.

[Tara Sun]

It is, it is.

[Ginny Urch]

So you've got a six and a half month old and you've got a three and a half year old.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

Talk to us about just aiming for that. Like, like we try it here and there, but I've not been super committed to it. But I'm. It's always swirling around in my mind.

[Tara Sun]

Right. The idea of Sabbath. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think we often think of Sabbath as one thing. Right. Like we think about it as like maybe just going to church. Like, oh, that's the Sabbath day. So I'm just gonna.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, gosh. Well, that's exhausting. No.

[Tara Sun]

Right.

[Ginny Urch]

I don't think that that works. So I was talking to a friend the other day about it. And she was kind of saying, well, it's Sunday. And I was like, I don't think it's Sunday. It's exhausting to get kids to church.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. If you go back to it, it's. I think it was Saturday. So, I mean, if we're just going back to the. Just even the. The. The origin of it. But when we think about Sabbath, we often limit it to, again, yeah, going to church because that's, you know, the Sabbath day. Or taking a nap, which, again, there's nothing wrong with a nap. Please take a nap. But if we go back to what it. Like, it's biblical origin. Sabbath was a day where people stopped everything. And granted, there's nuance to that because there's some people who have to work on the weekend. There's some people who have young kids like me, and it's like, you know, can we actually take an hour maybe? Sometimes it's 15 minutes. But the whole idea was that people just stopped and celebrated. They stood in awe of God and the way that he had provided for them in the past, you know, delivered them from Egypt, the way that he had sustained them. It's also an act of trust. Kind of like what Justin said there, where it's like, this is not work, is not all that life is. It's actually trusting that God's the one who provides. I can be diligent and steward my life, but God's the one who provides that. But I was also listening to a podcast that John Mark Comer, which I quote a lot in the book, too. His writing. Writing has changed my life and my faith and. Yes. And John Piper. Okay.

[Ginny Urch]

Yes, I. I haven't read it, but I got it based off of your book. It's called don't waste your life.

[Tara Sun]

Don't waste your life is such a. It's a heavy read, but such a good, good read. But John Mark Comer was talking on a podcast just recently about how Sabbath is done a lot in a wrong way, where we do it by ourselves, which, again, there is nuance to that, where you should, you know, take a nap. Like, you know, like, mom, go have your time, where you get a pedicure, go hang out with your friends. Right. But like, Sabbath at its origin was done in community. It was done with people. They would dine and dance and they would drink with people that they loved, and they would celebrate, they would rest, they would stop everything. And so Sabbath, like Justin said, it's this whimsical idea. It feels so countercultural, but it Is this idea that we get to slow down enough to be noticers, to be people who are thankful, to be people who create and let their soul breathe and be filled up so that then we can go into the week like the people of when, when Jesus was on the scene. And even before Jesus, they saw this day as something that commissioned them, the start of the week, to go into the week. It wasn't like, let me crash and burn the whole week and then rest. No, no. It was the other way around. And although this idea of rest and Sabbath is not foundational, like, if you don't do it, you're not going to be saved. Like, as a Christian, if you believe in that, that's not the truth.

[Ginny Urch]

But.

[Tara Sun]

But it is so purposeful that God said it from the beginning and keeps reiterating it throughout scripture, that this is good for us.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, it's a gift.

[Unknown]

It's a gift.

[Ginny Urch]

It would be a gift to have a weekly rhythm that reminds you that work is not the only important thing in the world and that God can be trusted with having that day off.

[Tara Sun]

Right?

[Unknown]

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[Ginny Urch]

Book about the blue zones by Dan Buettner and he talks about these people that live to be sentence I think it's called centenarians, that they're in their hundreds. And he studied longevity, basically, around the world. And one of the cultures he studied was a. I think they're Seventh Day Adventists, but they are very committed to a Sabbath day of rest. And he talked about, like, the actual health benefits of having that one day off. And, you know, just being able to de. Stress and not be focused on work is really compelling. So the book has got, you know, your book has got just different things that you start to kind of mull around in your mind, and you're, like, kind of playing around with it in your mind. Like, you know, I. I could give that a try. Or, you know, the. The, you know, like you talked about earlier. Like, I'm saying yes to something, but I'm also saying no to something else. And one of the things that you talk about that you kind of like you're in process of doing and that I think a lot of people are in process of doing is habits surrounding your phone.

[Tara Sun]

Yep.

[Ginny Urch]

Especially in the morning. So you're really honest in the book. You're like, this is what I want to do, but I am struggling to do it. Can you talk about where you're at with that?

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. What you're alluding to is. And I even toyed around with even including that, but I'm like, no, no. Like, I'm gonna be real about this. So I talk about at the beginning or in one of the parts of the chapters where I'm like, my goal is to not be, like, that person who, you know, grabs their phone the moment my alarm goes off and, like, just scrolls. But I still struggle with that. I have a separate alarm clock, and yet my phone is still in my room. And I'm like, why am I doing this? But there's. There's a good theme in the book. It's not all about social media, but there is a good theme in the book about how we're such a distracted culture and we have just kind of accepted that distracted is life. This is just how it is with an age of technology and social media. But when it comes to, like, just these small daily habits, when we're so overwhelmed and overbooked, it's really hard for us to do that small work. Right. When I scroll in the morning, it's not even necessarily about the scrolling. It's about the fact that I just, like, want to numb out for a second. Like, sometimes I just want to distract myself from what is ahead of the day. Like, I'm. Does Anyone feel like, overwhelmed and overbooked before their feet even hit the floor? I feel like that is a huge thing that we just kind of go to, and it's become something that we're used to, that we go to for relief, for a dopamine hit, for just a little bit of avoidance. And so that's what I. That's what I kind of share in that little section there.

[Ginny Urch]

Do you have any ideas for people?

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. Okay, so practically, I mean, I would say I think it starts with a bigger issue. I think it starts with just kind of retraining our time and our affections. That's a big word. But our affections. With social media, I think a big thing I talk about as well is just realizing that not everything is so urgent. I think we think, oh, if I don't scroll, I'm going to miss out. But I think it really is just doing these little steps. If you know that you want to be less glued to your phone and less controlled by it taking those small steps. I think we really believe that we have to overhaul everything, Ginny. Like, we have to be like, okay, I'm gonna, like, make this massive life transformation in one day or a week even. Well, that's just like not how sustainable change happens in our lives. It's. It happens by that small, everyday, faithful work. And so for me, even practically, maybe someone can take this and run with it. But my. Before I had my second. But also now their naps are a little different, but kind of the same. But before I had my second baby, my first was still taking quite the long nap. And so I had a big chunk through the day. And so I would get some work done during that nap. And then when he got up around 3,4ish. More like 3. For the rest of the day until bedtime, my phone would be on my charger because I knew that when he got up, he was awake and that we were gonna do something. We're gonna make dinner, and then dinner comes, my husband is around, we're gonna eat dinner together, we're gon have some family time. It felt like a natural time for me to try that. Right, because it wasn't like during the work hours, because let's be honest, if you're working on your phone, if you're working outside of the home, like, you kind of need your technology a lot of the times, like, sometimes you need to be available. But for me, I'm like, okay, how can I set myself up for success in a time that maybe I'm not so Needed a time that maybe, you know, I have other things like dinner and taking care of a kid and getting ready for bed that are going to distract me away from needing to be on my phone so much. And so I started doing that. And the more I started doing that every single day, I knew that my phone was there and case I needed it. Right there was an emergency. But I had a separation, a physical separation where I was over here in the living room and my phone was in my bedroom. And so even just practically, I think trying something small like that could be really, really life changing. It did for me. It sounds kind of trivial, but it really changed everything.

[Ginny Urch]

It sounds like it would probably be very freeing. Yeah.

[Tara Sun]

Like, if it was. Yeah. Like as I think some of us are like, oh, let me put my phone on the counter when you're like five feet away from it at the dinner table. But like you hear it and. And it's like right there. So there's even scientific studies about like proximity. Like if you see it.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Tara Sun]

Or like how many times you pick it up when it's just like still in the room. Like your brain knows. I don't know.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that once you get more used to that then the morning thing, it might help out with that. I thought you brought up a really interesting point, Tara, though, about numbing out. That's a really interesting point. And so if we wake up and we're overbooked and overwhelmed.

[Tara Sun]

Yes.

[Ginny Urch]

That might be our first inclination. And so your whole point of trying to pull back, have a little bit more healthy rhythms, then you might face the day and be a little bit more excited or what's to come. And you don't necessarily have that deep need to numb out.

[Tara Sun]

Right. Well, think about it. We're all like, I don't want to start my day off on the wrong foot. I want to be excited. I don't want to feel this dread already. But what hap. Even if you follow a lot of uplifting people and encouraging content, just inevitably open your email and you see a bunch of stuff about work or you see a bunch of stuff about buying this, like you need this product. So you. So you're. You're already inundated with something you have to do which makes maybe will make you anxious, something you have to buy which makes you feel like you have to keep up, or you scroll in the news app or it's just kind of like on your home screen and it flashes by and it's like there's wars happening over Here. And not to say that, that, like, we shouldn't think about that, but, like, I just think instantly when we wake up, before we've taken our thoughts captive, before we've either gotten in the Word, if, if, if you, if that's part of your routine or something that you want to do, or before you've even just had, like a moment of space to breathe and to think, like, we've already just consumed our souls and our minds with anxiety and stress and fear and comparison. And why do we expect the day to go any differently if that's how we start it? Because, like, I don't know, I read the Psalms a lot in Scripture, like, if I'm reading a different book of the Bible, also, like, read a psalm on top of it or something, or read a psalm before bed. And what I've noticed is that scripture obviously never says that there is a perfect time to read the Word. It actually encourages us to constantly be in the Word at different times in our day or to be in God's presence throughout our day, which I talk about in the book, how to actually do that. But what I noticed, Jenny, is that a lot of the Psalms, a lot what David says is like, hey, in the morning when I rise, like, I'm in the Word in the morning, you find me, Lord, you're here with me. Like, he knew something about setting the tone for our day.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. In the morning I lay my request before you and I wait in expectation.

[Tara Sun]

So good.

[Ginny Urch]

What a different way to start a day out with that. I'm gonna lay my request before God and I'm gonna wait in expectation that there is an anticipation there where you're excited, what's to come, what does God have for me? Instead of numbing out and then also getting overwhelmed because of all you feel. Yeah. The dread of all these emails I have to respond to, I'm behind. Yeah. So, I mean, it's to toy around with. Like, if you can make it happen, it could really be life changing for you. You talk about this, and I thought this was really interesting and I think it's true. Most of us don't notice we're burnt out until it's too late or we're quite far down that road. What ideas would you have for being better noticers of that path toward burnout?

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. So I would say to take a good practical look at what is on your schedule in a given week or a given month. If there is too much stuff, I would say again, there's, there's grace for this because There are certain seasons, like I'm in a season of a lot of busyness and then it slows down, right? Like, launch is crazy. And then it slows down. Or maybe have something with your kids or something with your job. So there's grace for that. But also I think it's a really good tell to say what we're committing to and if we're committing to a lot or we need to do a lot, because there's a lot of life that we just can't back out of. Right? Like, we have to do some of these things, but take inventory of that and be like, okay, this is crazy. How am I going to make sure I'm centered and grounded and steady in this? Because if we're not, then that'll be really easy for us to reach the point of burnout. And burnout usually happens with just feeling disinterested or bitter about the things on our schedules, about work, about a lack of work, life balance perhaps, or even if you don't work outside of the home, just having too many commitments. I think that's really practical at first. Also, please check in with your body. You are a soul, but you are also a physical being, right? So check in with, like, are you chronically getting stressed out? And I'm saying chronically as in like all the time, not just like one day, right? But like all the time. Are you anxious? Can you not sleep? Because your mind is racing to worst case scenarios? Do you hold tension in your neck and your back that you like ache all day from it? Right. Let's just, I mean, hormones, like, just take an inventory of also what's going on in your body because that's a huge tell of also if you're burnt out. I remember Jenny when I was approaching burnout and then I hit burnout. Like, everything, like, my body felt really weak. I was chronically anxious and stressed. It wasn't just one thing, it was everything was sending me. And then, you know, I was overbooking and over committed in my schedule and then I wasn't reading the Word of God. So all of it was just this concoction that ended up just imploding on me. And so I look back now and realize I wish I would have checked in a little bit better maybe even if that's like a. I do like a Sunday night where I sit with my calendar and I look at the week ahead. I try not to do like two weeks in advance because that, like, is a little bit too much, right? Because I'm like, I can't really plan for two weeks. I can't even plan for a week. But, like, I'll try, right? But even a Sunday night check in before the week starts and be like, okay, where am I at right now? I think could be really powerful. And it starts to become a rhythm. Like, every Sunday night after I put the kids to bed, I'm like, let's check this out and let's check in with me. And it's really helpful.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

So we talked a lot about the overbooked. Then you also talk about being overwhelmed. And one of the things that you bring up is comparison.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

And I thought this really interesting, you know, you're. You're talking about that this starts really young. You say you had your first run in with comparison at age 5, and you kind of think, well, maybe eventually I'm gonna outgrow this. But we live in a world where, oh, my. It's so easy to compare. And even, like, even in a space like this, it's like there's. It's so numbers driven. So it's like, well, how many books did that person sell? And is their book on the shelf in the store? Cause mine never seems to be. Where's my book? You know, all of these different things. So can you talk about, you know, that this is amplified and what we wished would have sort of dissolved as we hit adulthood is still a part of our everyday life. How do you deal with social comparison?

[Tara Sun]

Oh, this is huge. I wrote a whole chapter about identity and comparison, and some people are probably like, why did you write that in a book about being overwhelmed and overbooked? But I think we get overwhelmed and overbooked because the subtitle is how to Keep up with God. When you're just trying to keep up with life. We do so much of the latter. We're like, I'm just trying to keep up with life. I'm just trying to keep up with that mom I see on social media. That's killing it. She has a million, like, activities and creative things with her kids, and I can't. So I'm going to try to do it right.

[Ginny Urch]

Like, there's one mom and I follow.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

And she's like, it's like, my day with 17 boys. I don't know these kids.

[Tara Sun]

You have 17 or.

[Ginny Urch]

I don't know if she doesn't. I don't. I don't know how many. I'm exaggerating, but it's like 4:14 wake. My husband wakes up and works out 4:19. I wake up.

[Tara Sun]

I know. I know who you're talking about.

[Ginny Urch]

I think I'm like, you know, so I agree. And it's wonderful. I think that she's pushing people for good habits and there's a lot of good things about it and you can learn from that. So I don't think there's anything wrong with the information. But when you see that and stacked with 3,600 other people, that can lead to a ton of overwhelm.

[Tara Sun]

Well, we try to fit, let's say. Yeah, like. Like her schedule that's amazing for her and it seems like they're family from all appear is thriving on that kind of schedule, you know, but we try to fit a lot of what she's doing with, like what we're doing when. If I were to try to fit their schedule into my schedule. I don't have the same finances. I don't like my. Like, my husband has a job that, like, we don't work together. Like. Like we have separate jobs. Like, he can't always be available to help with the kids. Like, there's just like, we have such different lives. There's similarities that we have to each other, but a lot of different nuances and seasons and financial situations and relationship situations. It's all really different. And so we're trying to squeeze with comparison their. Their circumstances and what they can do and their capacity into ours, and it's just not the same. And so it's like trying to put it. What's the saying? Like a round peg and a square hole or a square peg and a round hole?

[Ginny Urch]

I think either would work. Either.

[Unknown]

Either would work.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Tara Sun]

I guess the square wouldn't be a whole. Yeah. Anyway, I guess. Yeah, I guess.

[Ginny Urch]

No, that's actually good. I do think the circle could go in the square.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah, the square.

[Ginny Urch]

I guess it depends on how big they are.

[Tara Sun]

Right. You guys know what I'm saying? Like, you're trying to fit once one shape into another. That's.

[Ginny Urch]

But I've decided I don't like that saying anymore because I've never really thought about it. But it would depend on how big the hole is.

[Tara Sun]

It's true. It's true. Okay. Anyway, you guys know what I'm saying, that we're trying to just squeeze it in. And so what I have realized with the social comparison is that when I know, like, what really helps me to my core and gives me practicals to run with Jenny is when I know actually like, who I am in Jesus Christ and also what I am called to do. So for me, I Know, the Lord has called me to write books and to speak into podcast, but also to be a wife and a mom that is present and is discipling her kids. And that is my greatest joy. Like, even before everything that I just said before this, that's my pride and joy, is being in my four walls with my kids. So that is vocationally, day to day what I'm called to be. But I'm also a child of God. That's the thing that envelops all of this. But when I know that, and I know, wow, God, you've given me this. You've given me these little lives, you've given me this platform, whatever a platform looks like for you, that helps us to be a little more excited, a little bit more present, a little bit more on purpose with what we're doing and a little bit less prone to being like, oh, but I really want that. But God's like, no, no, be present with where you are, what I've given you and see how good it is. Because a lot of us have really good lives, but we're missing it because we wish we had someone else's life, but we're not present enough in that circumstance because of comparison to see it for what it's worth.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. And I think if it's so well into the book, because that can make you feel so overwhelmed. I talked to a mom who said that her husband was like, look, you have to get off social media because every single day you're coming to me with a new idea. Like, it's like, okay, today you want to build a chicken tractor and you want a homestead, and tomorrow you'd like to have a flower farm.

[Tara Sun]

And.

[Ginny Urch]

And then the next day you're wanting to live in an RV and travel America and go see all the national.

[Tara Sun]

Parks and we live in a condo in the city. No, I'm just kidding. It's like, yeah, I mean, it is a lot.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. And now I want to remodel the bathroom. And hey, can you get up at 4:15 and exercise before I get up? You know, it's all of these things and it's too much. And so you can just see how that would really add to the overwhelm. And to your point, it's such a small thing snippet of that person's life. So you don't know, you don't know what the other factors are. No one's going to come in and be like, and also this. How much money we make.

[Unknown]

And.

[Ginny Urch]

And also my mom lives next door and she's helping with, you know, and also or whatever, all of these different things. You don't get an insight into that. You would if you were actually friends, you know. But when you're not, it can be really tricky.

[Unknown]

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[Ginny Urch]

So another thing that deals with overwhelm is how we respond to overwhelm. So you talk in here. And I relate to this. I definitely eat my feelings. So you talk about binge eating and I think that's a really common thing. I think it's fairly common, especially because food is so addictive and it does make you feel better right away. So can you talk about. So we talked about a lot of these causes of overwhelm, but some responses to overwhelm that are a little more healthy than turning to some sort of distraction. Whether that's food or social media or drinking or. I mean there's gambling, there's so many video games. There's so many things that we could turn to distract us. Like your thing, you know, how do we, how do we do something different?

[Tara Sun]

Sure, sure. No, I love that you brought this up. And something that I will plug about the book is I love that we, we always we me, I, I started the chapters with like here is like the truth, the root, the foundation. And then here's how we get practical about it. And so I share a story about how when. So I grew up a dancer. So from 4 to 14 or 4 to 18, so 14 years I was dancing. I was always in leotards and tights and, and I was just very aware of my body for a long time. And my, you know, my teachers were as well as a dancer you normally are picked apart like that. And so there are seasons in my life where I was super stressed and tired. So I would like reach for a bag of chips after ballet practice and I would just eat that all. And then I would feel so self deprecating at my next practice and be like, well, you have to work and earn for what that was. And so we just get kind of stuck in this cycle of I'm overwhelmed and I'm tired, so I do this but then I feel guilt and shame about it. But like how do we like stop doing that something if we just get really practical about getting out of that constant state of overwhelm and just like going to temporary things instead of the realist thing. If we're getting like. And coming down from like the 10,000 foot level to maybe more of like the, the 1,000 foot level. Getting really specific on it. Something that has really helped me is of course like I say in the book, it's cutting back isn't like the only thing or the thing like yes, cutting back in our life is important, but we really have to address like what's most important to us in a day. But I've noticed that doing things that I would thank myself for tomorrow is really practical. So, of course you're already tired and exhausted. But on this journey of being like, okay, I have a little bit more margin in my day. So, like, today I can do a little task that will set me up better for tomorrow and make tomorrow easier with the kids. Or, you know, I'm gonna pack the bag tonight so that tomorrow we can go because we have a dentist appointment.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, gosh, that makes such a big difference.

[Tara Sun]

You know, like, let's just think super practical.

[Ginny Urch]

I did that when our kids were little. You can't do it when you are so overwhelmed. If you wake up and you're not ready for the day, that changes.

[Tara Sun]

Right.

[Ginny Urch]

But my goodness, I feel like I probably spent five or six years where that it was like, I have to make sure that tonight I'm prepared for tomorrow.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. But you know what makes that. Because some moms will say, well, like, I just did so many things during the day, or I have so many things to do that I don't have time for that. Well, like, think about what those things were and, like, can one of them give? Or, you know, like. Or realize that, like, that task. Task takes five seconds. Right. But I think it has to be something that we just get still about for a second and realize that maybe this won't take as long as I thought. Or maybe me thinking, I say in the book that, like, I was sobbing at the kitchen sink at 11:30 almost midnight because I thought that my casserole dish had to be clean in order for me to earn my rest. And, like, saying that probably sounds crazy to you, but I think we've all been there where it's like, we feel like we have to earn something when it's like, okay, what can you let go? What is urgent? Like. Like, is it's better for me to be prepared for that. That early dentist appointment at the morning than, like, be frazzled and torn apart in the morning. Like, I'm going to give five minutes tonight to do that, to set me up for the next day, I think is really important. Also, something that I love to do is just, like, brain dump. Absolutely everything. Everything that's overwhelming me. Even good things. Right. Even if it's like, a work thing that I'm super excited about, like, just getting it out of my mind, out of my head, onto paper, talking about it. A big part of some of the chapters is community, Having people that will call you out and call you higher and say, hey, I have this on my. Like, I'd love to get this done this week or I'd love to do this project or I'd love to do this with my kids or take them there with a spouse or a loved one, a parent, someone, and be like, what do you think? Like, because when we're so overwhelmed and overbooked. Ginny, I feel this way too, that I can't see the dimensions and the details of life. Everything feels really overwhelming. And it's really hard for me to really zero in and see the reality of the situation. Like, reality gets distorted when we're so pigeonholed in this like, like, all encompassing overwhelm. So we need someone who's a little bit separated and has a little bit more wisdom and discernment maybe, than we have in that moment to tell us, like, hey, maybe you should not do that. Like, that, like, can be done later. Or like, maybe don't do that this week because you have this on your plate. Or I've seen how tired you are. Maybe don't try to take your kids to the zoo this week. Do it next week because you have so much on your plate, you know?

[Ginny Urch]

Right? Yeah.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

Those are all such good suggestions. And they help. And seasons change eventually where, you know, you may not have to do that as much. But in the season where, you know, if you are overwhelmed and you can make a decision that will help for you the next day, it can really change the quality of that next day. So sometimes I will. Not always, but if there's a. If I read a book and then in the book they talk about another book that's really compelling, sometimes I'll grab a copy.

[Tara Sun]

So, yeah, I love it.

[Ginny Urch]

In this one, you talked. You talked about John Mark Comer. You've got Justin Whitmill early and John Piper, who obviously I think most people have heard of, but I have never read this book, Don't Waste youe Life. And I thought what you wrote about it was compelling because you said someone got it for you and you're kind of like, oh, like, well, I don't need a book to tell me not to waste my life. And I felt that way about. There's this woman named Sarah McKenzie, and she has a book called the Read Aloud Family. She runs this whole, like, membership and incredible stuff called the Read Aloud Revival. But the book is called the Read Aloud Family. And I was at this conference and there was just like this buzz around her. Boo. I think her book had just came out. I don't know. It was like this line of like 1 million people to meet her. And I was like, well, I probably should get that book. You know, clearly I need it. Like this huge line of women. So I bought the book and then I came home and I was like, why would I ever read a book about reading aloud? You know, like, similar to, like, like, don't waste your life. Like, I already know anyways. It's one of my favorite books. It was actually a really transformative. Is that the right word book for me? Like, because she really hones in on the power of the simple and she reminds you of the power of a read aloud for all ages. You know, I would. I had stopped reading out loud once our kids could learn how to read because I'm like, well, they're just reading on their own. And she talks about the power of hearing the words. Anyway, so it was a really good one. All that to say, you should get that big mess book by Justin.

[Tara Sun]

I'm excited. I will.

[Ginny Urch]

It's such a great read aloud. But you talk about this John Piper book, don't waste your life. And you said you ended up picking it up. You're like, finally, like, that's how I was with this read aloud revival, read aloud family book. And you're like, you know, you took a whole journal of notes on it. Do you remember, like, can you think back to then? I haven't started it yet. I just. It just came. But like, can you think back to what it was about the book that was so compelling to pick up?

[Tara Sun]

Or like, when I started reading.

[Ginny Urch]

When you started reading it and you said you have a whole journal filled of notes that go along with what you were reading.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah, I kind of tease it. And I'll tease it now, but I talk about it in the chapter. But the question that really compelled me the most, that he would just kind of summarize the whole book was just this question of, like, will it matter? Will this whatever you're doing, will it matter for eternity? And it really stopped me in my tracks because it made me evaluate because I, you know, I got this book when I graduated high school and I was going into college and I was just so set on careers and I was so set on this is the plan. This is what's going to happen. Yeah, I think I was, I. It just struck me because I'm like, why am I doing the things that I'm doing? Why am I making the decisions that I'm making? Even now as a mom, as a wife, as what I'm doing? Like, even when you think you're doing things for the good reason or for Jesus, sometimes we're not. And you have to stop. And just like Mary and Martha in Scripture, like, Martha was doing good things, right? Like she was taking care of a home and trying to cook a meal and be hospitable. But, like, she let that overtake the best thing, which was just being with Jesus and eternity and her spiritual formation and rest. And so that was probably what compelled me the most about the book, was just him teaching us and going through, like, a wasted life doesn't happen when we don't break glass ceilings or when we don't make the million. Or a wasted life isn't if our kids don't go to an Ivy or become a professional athlete. A wasted life happens when we forget that we, like, forget why we're here and what we're supposed to do. And that's sobering.

[Ginny Urch]

Good. It's so simple looking. I don't know if I've ever.

[Tara Sun]

I love it. I love it. Actually, I don't. I don't have that edition. I have like one of the first ones and it's like a red cover with like a. Like a brown cross on it. So it's a little more busy, but it's great. It's great.

[Ginny Urch]

So interesting. Okay, so tell us this is not your first book. Your first book is called Surrender, your Story. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about that book book and also your podcast.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. So soon to your story. The subtitle is Ditch the myth of control and Discover Freedom and Trusting God. Oh, you guys. I wrote this book because I am a control freak. And I still kind of am. I wrote it because I had a chronic illness and career changes and so much stuff in my life that I thought, well, I'm following Jesus. He says he has good plans and promises for me, so I'm gonna go after it. And that turned into control. That turned into me living with my. With my fists closed on what I wanted. And then just like all of us experience when God does a U turn or not a U turn, like a pivot or a 180, and we're like, that's not the plan. I didn't wanna surrender. I didn't wanna release my fists and be like, okay, God, where are you gonna take me now? And so I wrote that book just to really teach people, like, we live in a culture and where surrender is not a popular word. Submission is not a good word. Like, you're supposed to go after your goals. You're supposed to not wait for anyone. You're supposed to hustle and do all these things. And so I wrote it to tell people, like, actually surrender is freedom. Surrender is when we actually get to walk out God's purposes for our lives, and we find a lot of hope in that. So I wrote that one. And then I have a weekly podcast called Truth Talks with Tara. And it came out of. I mean, the mission statement is to really help women know love and live God's word. And it started when I went to Bible school and I realized, like, I've known. Like, in my head, I've known God and I've known the word. But, like, when you. Like, when that goes beyond just head knowledge, it starts to become a love, a relationship, and then out of being in love with God, you start to live it. But I think a lot of people like me used to feel like I don't know how to take it from head knowledge and actually live it out. So that's what the podcast is about. We have tons of guests on. We have conversations about everything, uncomplicating what it means to actually live it, and it's a joy.

[Ginny Urch]

I'm gonna ask you a hard question. People have asked it to me, though, so I don't feel super bad. It's a tricky. It's a tricky question because when you have all these different podcast episodes, they're all good for different reasons, and there are different topics that are covered. But when someone's diving in, sometimes it's tricky to know where to start. Oh, can you give us a starting point? And it doesn't. You know, obviously there's no. I mean, I think there's never, like, this is the best one. But.

[Tara Sun]

But.

[Ginny Urch]

But it's more the question of, like, what would be a good one? You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna dive in, and this might be interesting.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. Okay, let me think. I know.

[Ginny Urch]

It's the worst question ever.

[Tara Sun]

Well. Cause it's like. Okay, I'll give you. I'll give you two. Okay, so one that I think if you wanna, like, hear, like, a conversation like. Like, with a guest on something. Yeah, I would say any. So I've had a couple episodes with Ann Voskamp, a sweet friend of mine. Any. With Ann, because she will, like, she just, like, speaks to your soul. And I've, like, cried during those conversations.

[Ginny Urch]

I love Anne Boss camp.

[Tara Sun]

I love her. So her. Or honestly, Justin. Our conversation with Justin about what it looks like to have habits that not only change your house, but, like, your life. And I feel like that was super practical to, like, here's it Says, here's how you live it out. And then if you want to do a solo episode with me. I have done episodes on what it looks like to actually trust God in the waiting seasons. I think that's a big question. I get a lot. So any of those episodes? There's a few on that, but I know that was kind of not maybe the most succinct answer.

[Ginny Urch]

No, that's perfect. That's perfect. That's actually what I was looking for. It's just like. It gives us somebody a place to start. I am so impressed that you can do both in interview and individual. So I one time tried to tape individual.

[Tara Sun]

I actually.

[Ginny Urch]

It's taped, and it's about, like, figuring out how to not yell at your kids.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah.

[Ginny Urch]

And it was so odd.

[Tara Sun]

Wasn't it weird? Because you're like. Cause you know that this is going out to your community, and you have such a strong community. But it is kind of weird because when you're used to doing guests only, you're like, no one's talking back to me.

[Ginny Urch]

I know. It's so weird. You just sit there talking. Then I listen back to it, and I was like, I don't know if I like this. It's still, like, you know, sitting in the bowels of all these things I've recorded. So I think that that's impressive that you're able to. To do both, because it's actually. It's trickier than you would think.

[Tara Sun]

Right. Well, you know what I find sometimes, Jenny, is that sometimes I get too comfortable, and then I'm like, where did my notes go? Like, I'm ranting, like, let's rein it back. Because at least with guests, although that can happen too. And it's really fun. I feel like having someone that, like, we're having a dialogue on something, like, keeps me a little bit on track. Of course you have tangents, and they're always really good. Like, if there's a tangent, it's always a good reason for it. But for me, I'm like. I'm blabbering on for, like, 25 minutes, and I'm like. Like, I haven't even, like, gotten past point two. And, like, this is too long, you know? Like, that's my problems. Right. I'm a yapper.

[Ginny Urch]

So I think mine was, like, just so boring. I was like. And then I don't. I don't know. I was like, I can't put this out into the world. So I haven't tried it again. But I'm impressed that you can do both. So the book is called Overbook and Overwhelmed. It's already out if you're interested in getting a copy. How to keep up with God when you're just trying to keep up with life. I want to hit one more topic from the book.

[Unknown]

Book that.

[Ginny Urch]

That was really important, especially for today. You talk about resilience. Two things. Resilience and perseverance, which are two qualities that our kids are going to need, that we really need, especially today. Resilience, right? Picking yourself back up and persevering to keep going. So can you talk about how if you can cultivate those qualities, it will help you to feel less overwhelmed?

[Tara Sun]

Absolutely. So I included this in a chapter all about weariness, because weariness is a huge result of when you're overbooked. Like, when you do too much. When you feel overwhelmed, you're often really weary, really tired, and it's hard to do the work and show up and hold all the things and juggle all the hats. But resilience. There's actually a quote from Rebecca Lyons in the book, too. Talking about resilience is just faithful perseverance. It's just this act of being like, okay, like we talked about this earlier, I don't have to overhaul everything, but when I start building that muscle, that muscle of grit and, like, I'm also grace, where I'm coming back every single day and trying again, like, that actually helps everything be less overwhelming. I think there's a lot of us who believe that, like, you know, we have to, like, start over, but, like, the work of just doing the small work every day is less work than it. Than. Than it would be for you to let yourself just completely burn out and then have to rebuild. And so building this muscle of resilience and perseverance, I talk about a story in. In scripture. I talk about a parable about how it really is just watering those roots every single day. I even talk about Olympic athletes. They are trained to go all out. Like, they can't do a triple backflip handspring, whatever the heck they do halfway. Like, because if they do, if they don't turn all of the way, if they don't give their full energy to it, then they're gonna, like, break their necks. They're gonna fall on their face. And so I just talk about how it looks like just for us to show up with what we have in the day, it might not feel like a crazy amount of energy, but to show up in that, that. And that builds that muscle. There's Also, I'm quoting so many things right now, but there's a quote from up that I loved including in the book, too. And it's Russell. And he says, I think the little things. Is that what he said? I think the little things are my favorite things or the most important things or something like that, where it just really, like, touched my heart. When I. When I rewatched that movie, I'm like, I gotta include it in the book. Because it's just those little things that we really count out that really build that muscle of resilience. And one last thing I'll say on this, too. It's just a mindset shift of, like, what keeps us from showing up again every day and building grit and perseverance and staying in the game with God in our lives is guilt and shame from our past. Meaning, you might be saying, tara, Jenny, I have been chronically living overbooked and overwhelmed, and I've been chronically putting God last in my life, or whatever that looks like for you. And I don't know how to come back. And I don't think that I can because I know I'm gonna mess up again. I felt that so many times. And what has freed me so much is a reminder of the prodigal son that God rejoices when I come home. He doesn't look at me any differently. He invites me back in. The prodigal son ran to him, but it also says that the father ran to him first. Like, he took a million steps towards him. So I just want everyone to just shake off that shame and that guilt that says, tara, I can't do it. I don't think I can because I've strayed away too long. You are not disqualified. You are not counted out. Like, there are new mornings and new mercies and fruit every time. Fruit takes time.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Tara Sun]

It's so true, but it's worth it.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, you're right. There is power in showing up every single day. There is power in not despising the small things. There's power in diligent work that feels small, but in all reality is building a powerhouse inside of you. And then you have some really beautiful things in here about nature because you talk about living in the Pacific wonderland. You say you skied on glorious mountains cliff, jumped into the clearest waters, hiked to roaring waterfalls, dug your toes into sparkling sand. So the you related to the power of slowing down to really notice all of those things. You say you can't rush. You can't rush a perfect sunset or a Blooming flower, the dancing of warm colors across the sky. You can't rush these things. You say the beauty happens in the middle. And life is made up of a thousand of these beautiful middles. So you want to make sure that you're not missing them. You slow down. So it's a beautiful, beautiful book. It is called Overbooked and Overwhelmed. We always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

[Tara Sun]

Oh, I love it. So I grew up every single summer working on my family's hazelnut farm. My dad and his brothers are third generation hazelnut farmers. And so I have the best memories of just driving around on a four wheeler when I was like six and chasing my brother through the fields and getting dirty and moving pipe. And it. I just, I loved it. And I loved moving pipe.

[Ginny Urch]

Hey, you know, no one has ever said that before. Tara. Here's what I love, that I loved moving pipe.

[Tara Sun]

You know what? I loved it until I had to do it by myself and then it was really hard. So moving pipe, as in, like, for people who don't know, like, you have to irrigate your trees or whatever it is, and sometimes you can only do that by like these ginormous pipes. My job when I was little was like, my dad would like move it because they were pretty heavy, and then I would do the little clamp where it would like, lock in. But like, I just, I loved the serenity of the farm and that I could just run wild. Like, it's 80 acres and like, we just run wild. And my parents just kind of knew we were around. And so that's something that people don't know about me is that, like, I still am such a farm girl at heart and I get to take my kids to the same farm. My, my three year and a half year old gets to ride around with papa and go pick things from their garden. And it's so nostalgic to look at him and be like, that was me. And I can't believe I get to raise my kids so close. It's awesome.

[Ginny Urch]

Wow. What a gift. That is so special.

[Tara Sun]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, I love that. I know nothing about hazelnut. I've literally never even considered what kind of a farm a hazelnut would be on. It grows on a tree.

[Tara Sun]

It grows on a tree. And fun fact, I'll nerd out for a second. Really quick. Oregon. So the state of Oregon and Turkey, like, not in the United States, they are the two utmost, for foremost places to grow hazelnuts. Oregon has some kind of soil composition, the perfect environment. And so Oregon is, like, up there with the big dogs, and we have a lot of hazelnuts around us. Yeah. So it's really funny to tell people that, because they're like, what in the world? Like, what even is that?

[Ginny Urch]

And what are hazelnuts even in? Is that what makes Nutella?

[Tara Sun]

Yeah. But, like, if you ask my dad, who's, like, a real hazelnut person, those aren't the best quality ones. Those are like. Like, come to Oregon sometime, and I'll. We'll show you the quality. Okay.

[Ginny Urch]

Yes.

[Tara Sun]

So that's.

[Ginny Urch]

It's, like, top of my list. I need to know more about these hazelnuts. I love it. Tara, what an awesome opportunity to get to spend this time with you. I loved your book, Overbooked and Overwhelmed. It's one of two, so huge. Congrats. Surrender. Your story is the first one people can listen to you on your podcast, Truth Talks with Tara. Thank you so much for being here.

[Tara Sun]

Thanks so much, Jenny. It was such a blast. Thank you.