1KHO 549: The Hidden Skills Behind School Readiness | Allison Mell, Tots on Target

Summary

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast: Episode 1KHO 549 - The Hidden Skills Behind School Readiness with Allison Mell, Tots on Target

Release Date: August 14, 2025

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Introduction

In the inaugural episode of "The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast," host Jenny Ertz engages in a profound conversation with Dr. Allison Mell from Tots on Target. As a pediatric physical therapist and a mother of four, including twins, Dr. Mell brings a wealth of experience and insight into the crucial role of outdoor play in childhood development.

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Journey to Tots on Target

Jenny Ertz [00:53]:
"You are perfectly primed to be helping out parents because you are a pediatric physical therapist and a mom of four, including a set of twins. Talk to us about your path toward Tots on Target."

Dr. Allison Mel [01:06]:
"When the idea of Tots on Target came, it was really in an effort to educate parents on child development. What do they need to know? What's good to know? How can they foster development in their home environment?"

Dr. Mell shares her passion for working with children, highlighting her diverse experience across various settings—from sensory gyms and schools to private practices. Her mission with Tots on Target is to empower parents with knowledge and tools to support their children's motor and overall development within the home environment.

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Understanding Developmental Milestones

Jenny Ertz [02:29]:
"Talk to us about where we're at with developmental milestones. ... Are they at the right stage? Can you talk to us about the focus there and what's happening overall?"

Dr. Allison Mel [02:54]:
"There is a range of normal. No two babies are going to do things exactly the same, but there's a range of normal that we want our children to be meeting milestones within."

The discussion delves into the myriad of developmental milestones spanning from birth to early childhood, encompassing gross motor skills, fine motor skills, sensory processing, and speech. Dr. Mell emphasizes the emotional toll parents often face when assessing their child's progress against these milestones. She reassures that variations are natural, stressing the importance of recognizing a range of normal development to alleviate undue parental anxiety.

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The Crucial Role of Crossing the Midline

Jenny Ertz [08:00]:
"Can you talk about what it is, why it's important?"

Dr. Allison Mel [09:26]:
"There is an imaginary line that runs down the center of our body... We're not born with this skill. Babies can't actually do any of that. They have a lot of reflexive movements and it actually is a skill that matures closer to the age of eight."

Dr. Mell introduces the concept of "crossing the midline," explaining its significance in coordinating the brain's hemispheres and its impact on various skills like reading, writing, and physical coordination. She illustrates how activities such as hand-clapping games and games like Twister naturally encourage children to develop this crucial skill, which forms the foundation for more complex motor and cognitive tasks essential for school readiness.

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Impact of Screen Time on Physical Development

Jenny Ertz [13:00]:
"This is when they talk about displacement... it's taking up some of the time that kids maybe would be doing these things that are helping to build their brain."

Dr. Allison Mel [15:14]:
"Our kids are experiencing education through screens. It's too much, unavoidable... if your child isn't in the normal range, you're just seeing that much more of an effect in the classroom."

The conversation shifts to the detrimental effects of increased screen time on children's physical and cognitive development. Dr. Mell discusses how screens displace essential physical activities that foster motor skills, sensory processing, and brain development. She underscores the importance of balancing screen time with active, outdoor play to mitigate these negative impacts and promote holistic development.

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Strategies for Encouraging Physical Play

Jenny Ertz [25:06]:
"What does crawling actually have to do with playing Monopoly, playing Twister, et cetera?"

Dr. Allison Mel [25:10]:
"Crawling is this tremendous experience that they are having, which is a tremendous amount of strengthening... it's all about the brain and body making those connections."

Dr. Mell elaborates on the significance of crawling in building upper and lower body strength, enhancing fine motor skills, and developing sensory processing abilities. She highlights various crawling styles and their implications, stressing that atypical crawling patterns may indicate underlying strength or sensory processing issues that warrant attention. Additionally, she provides practical suggestions for parents to incorporate physical activities into their children's daily routines, ensuring that motor development milestones are met.

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Balancing Technology and Outdoor Play

Jenny Ertz [53:20]:
"Overarching advice because here's how I feel... what would you tell them to do with their time?"

Dr. Allison Mel [53:50]:
"We are living in a society where technology is huge... finding the time that you are going to set aside for that screen-free opportunity for you."

Addressing the omnipresence of technology in today's society, Dr. Mell offers actionable advice for parents striving to balance technological engagement with physical play. She shares her personal strategies, such as setting aside dedicated screen-free times and creating stimulating environments that encourage movement and exploration. Dr. Mell acknowledges the challenges posed by societal norms and technological advancements but emphasizes the necessity of intentional efforts to prioritize outdoor play for optimal child development.

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Reflections and Fond Memories

Jenny Ertz [63:25]:
"What's a favorite memory from your childhood?"

Dr. Allison Mel [63:25]:
"I remember going to Hershey Park... feeding the ducks every night and enjoying that."
"Another memory is going out with friends on bikes, feeling so independent..."

In a heartfelt conclusion, Dr. Mell reminisces about her cherished childhood experiences centered around outdoor activities and unstructured play. These memories underscore the intrinsic value of physical engagement in fostering independence, confidence, and joy—qualities she strives to instill in today's children through her work with Tots on Target.

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Conclusion

Episode 1KHO 549 of "The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast" offers a compelling exploration of the hidden skills essential for school readiness, emphasizing the pivotal role of physical play and motor development. Dr. Allison Mell's insights serve as a clarion call to parents and educators to prioritize outdoor activities, balance technological influences, and nurture the foundational skills that enable children to thrive both academically and personally.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Allison Mel [02:54]:
  "There is a range of normal. No two babies are going to do things exactly the same, but there's a range of normal that we want our children to be meeting milestones within."

• Dr. Allison Mel [09:26]:
  "There is an imaginary line that runs down the center of our body... We're not born with this skill."

• Dr. Allison Mel [25:10]:
  "Crawling is this tremendous experience that they are having, which is a tremendous amount of strengthening... it's all about the brain and body making those connections."

• Dr. Allison Mel [53:50]:
  "We are living in a society where technology is huge... finding the time that you are going to set aside for that screen-free opportunity for you."

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For more insights and resources on child development, visit Tots on Target and explore the Tot Spot membership, blog, and Instagram for ongoing support and information.

Transcript

[Jenny Ertz]

At Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment specialist, who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ertz. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I'm so excited about today's guest. We are going to be talking about kids of all ages, but talking a lot about toddlers in the early stages. Dr. Alison Mel from Tots on Target is here. Welcome, Allison.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Wow. Thank you so much for having me. This is such an honor to be talking with you, and I am so, so excited for this.

[Jenny Ertz]

Okay. You are perfectly primed to be helping out parents because you are a pediatric physical therapist and a mom of four, including a set of twins. Talk to us about your path toward Tots on Target.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Sure. So, yes, I am a mom. I have four kids, two boys, two girls. My first two are twins. And you know, I love the, the mom experience. And then also I love working with kids. I always knew I wanted to work with kids. I mean, even as a child, myself. As a teenager, I was a guard, a counselor, a babysitter, all that kind of stuff. So when I was drawn towards physical therapy, right from the get go, I knew that I was going to be in the child space and that's where I went right away. I've worked in all different types of environments. I've worked in a sensory gym, in a school. I've worked privately. Everything from birth, newborns through big kids, like 10, 11, I would say, is like my, my top end of what I worked with. And I spent a while in the preschool, kindergarten area. I love working with kids. I love working with families. I'm all about motor development, motor experiences. I also feel like it's so important to look at holistically how a child is functioning overall. When the idea of Tots on Target came, it was really in an effort to educate parents on child development. What do they need to know? What's good to know? How can they foster development in their home environment? Because they're kids spend a lot of time at home too, and, and I wanted parents to really feel empowered enough to be able to advocate for their kids and help their kids along.

[Jenny Ertz]

Talk to us about where we're at with developmental milestones. It is something that I think there's some fear around. You know, you get those sheets at the doctor, it's like, these are all the things they should be doing. And then there's a lot of worry around if my kid is doing it, if they're not doing it, Are they at the right stage? Can you talk to us about the focus there and what's happening overall? Does it feel like there are a lot of people that are falling behind these milestones? Does it matter?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Oh, such good questions. And we'll dive into that because there's so many facets of this. So firstly, there are so many milestones that children are experiencing from birth and beyond. There's everything from the typical milestones that people are familiar with. Is my baby rolling over? Are they crawling? Are they taking those first steps? And they're all these mini stones or inch stones that I've heard it, that they're experiencing along the way as well, that we want our babies, our toddlers, our kids to be mastering as well. And that goes from the gross motor, the fine motor, sensory progression, the ability to process sensory information. And then there's speech, which is the whole other end that I really don't get into. But that's also a whole set of milestones as well. And there's a lot of emotions, I think, tied to whether or not certainly in the earlier stage, I would say birth through 18 months in my area of that motor development, where parents are really focused on their motor milestones. Right. Is my baby supposed to be rolling? Were they supposed to be rolling? Are they? Should they? And there's a lot of focus. I think that also comes after a period when a parent is pregnant. You know, exactly what stuff stage your utero, your baby's at, you know, when you're reading those books. And at 20 weeks, your baby is this, and at 30 weeks, your baby's this. And at 37 weeks, they're at this. All of a sudden you have this baby, and nobody really gives you that rulebook, the blueprint of what they're supposed to exactly do. And so when you take your baby to a well checkup, your pediatrician often asks a few basic questions, but that's not really where they're spending most of their time. They're doing, feeding and all these other things that your, you know, sleep, all these very important things that, you know, require you to, like, live and exist of, like, is my baby fed? Is. Are we sleeping? Right. And so they're kind of glossing over some milestones, but when you're at home, right, Is my baby tolerating tummy time? Do they hate tummy time? How is, how important is this? And so there are a lot of questions that parents have that they don't know how important they are, right? Is this important? Is this not? And they're not sure if how to determine whether or not their child is on track, Especially coming after this experience of pregnancy where you're clocking almost every single moment of what my baby in utero is. The size, the shape, the movements, what are we, what are we supposed to be experiencing? And so what I like to remind parents is that there's a range of normal. Knowing what those ranges are is important because it gives you peace of mind. So no two babies are going to do things exactly the same, but there's a range of normal that, that we want our children to be meeting milestones within. So that's number one is knowing those, those milestones. And then what if your child is falling behind at any stage? What, you know, how, how does that make you feel? What should you be nervous about? When should you step in? Firstly, it's always, you know, as a parent, you just want your child to be like everybody else. That's. We want our ch children to be able to do things like everyone else, have their individual, you know, personalities, of course, but in terms of development, you want them to be able to keep up like other kids. So if your child isn't, that can feel very like, is there, is there a big concern? Is there a little concern? How do I know what my concern should be? And so knowing those ranges is first and foremost, number one, is my child in the range of normal? If they are, aren't, are they continuing to make progress towards the next milestone where whatever that is, are they making continuous progress? Are they motivated to move? Whether it's in the baby stages, are they able to climb and jump and run and play with, you know, do things with their hands, cut color? Are they able to do those things? Are they making continuous progress towards that? If both of those things are not happening, if they're not within the normal range, they're not making this continuous progress, that's when we really want to step in and help out. Because to really one of the most important questions is, is this even important? And the answer is like 1000% yes to go with the title of the podcast 1000. We'll take that 1000% yes, which is these milestones are really important, not just for your child to move around to navigate their environment. That's yes. But these early developmental milestones are particularly important for building a strong foundation for children to exist in world, to be able to process sensory information, body awareness, fine motor skills like writing, coloring, reading even. It's actually all tied together to motor development. And so when we see our kids kind of falling off the track, it's important for us to get them back on it. Not in a fear mongering way. It's because we want our children to be set up for success. And getting in at the ground level where we're building a strong foundation is our best bet for helping our kids be successful.

[Jenny Ertz]

So if people are wanting more specifics, they can check out your membership because there's a lot of questions that come up, especially in that birth to 18 months. It's called the Tot Spot membership. People can check out your blog, tots on target. Com blog. And then you're also on Instagram with all of these important posts that are constantly coming up. So if you're having questions there, I would love to talk about this topic. Talking about birth to big kids goes all the way through of crossing the midline. So it's always interesting as a parent, like these are the things that you're like, I didn't know I would even be talking about this, but I really was thinking about it the other day because our older elementary school age girls into middle school still do those hand clapping games, like Miss Susie had a steamboat. Like, do you remember doing it? And you'd be like, and it's so wild to me how that is crossing the midline, all those hand clapping games and they're doing it in rhyme and they're doing it in community. And who the heck made that up? You know, it's like this, just what kids naturally do and it's good for them. So it starts, you know, with this crawling. It starts with maybe kids, little babies reaching for things. You have all sorts of ideas of ways that you can sort of entice a child to cross the midline. Just blowing bubbles and different ideas. I think it happens naturally a lot with different types of climbing things, but definitely those hand clap games. So birth to big kids, this crossing the midline is happening. Can you talk about what it is, why it's important?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Absolutely. So there is an imaginary line that runs down the center of our body. Think about it like from your nose, you know, down your nose, through your belly button, in between your feet. So there's this imaginary line. Now it's important to be able all our body parts to cross this imaginary line. But we're not born with this skill. Babies can't actually do any of that. They have a lot of reflexive movements and it actually is a skill that matures closer to the age of eight. Okay, so there's a big range of how this skill actually develops. So what is it? Yes, it's crossing the center of the body. That's everything from the eyes being able to track across the field of vision, it's the arms crossing over the legs, et cetera. So how might you see this in your everyday life? What would you be doing? Well, think of putting on a seatbelt. You're lifting up and you're crossing it over that center of your body. If you're reading across a page, if you're writing something, if you are swinging a bat or a golf club, you're doing these hand clapping games. There are so many life functions. Think about brushing your teeth. You're holding it with your right hand, but you're brushing the left side of your of your mouth. There are so many things that are actually crossing this imaginary line. Now how does it develop where? Well, over time, as babies become less reflexive in their movements and have more control, they do start visually tracking across their field. And then they might start reaching across, using their right hand to cross and reach something with their left hand. But that actually takes time. And for kids who struggle with this skill. And I'll backtrack for a second. What's happening is not just in the body, it's actually in the brain. It's connecting both the right side of the brain and the left side of the brain and building communication pathways between both sides of the brain. And so this is where reading and writing, and we're crossing over that midline as you're reading across a page, but it's also connecting that right and left sides of the brain. And we want obviously our kids to be able to do these and to have coordinated functional movements and skills, to be able to engage in their world. And even a child who struggles with crossing the midline might have trouble writing the letter T because it's crossing over. Writing a line across a paper, cutting across the paper, all these things, tracking their friends. If you're playing a game of tag. If their eyes can't fully cross the midline, what happens sometimes is their eyes will start and then they like pause and then they have to reshift and then continue to that other side. It's actually quite difficult for them to Be coordinated and quick in their reactions and their movements. So tracking friends, running and playing a game of tag, playing basketball, all these different things require that coordination of the eyes, the brain, the hands, the feet to function with this. And again, it's happening in combination with so many other movements, right. They have to have strength, they have to have bilateral coordination using both sides of the body in coordination. It's all happening in a way that we don't even process that we're doing this. Right. We don't think when we're reading, Wow, I just crossed the midline. Like if we don't, we don't think about that, right? But our kids, as they're growing and developing, we can understand that they don't have the coordination that we do as adults. And that's because all this takes time to develop. And that's why the experiences of early milestones, a lot of gross motor movement, fine motor exploration is so important for our kids.

[Jenny Ertz]

And so this is when they talk about displacement to talk about screen use, it's like, okay, you know, some might say screens are evil and some might say screens are innocuous. It doesn't matter either way. It is taking up some of the time that kids maybe would be doing these things that are helping to build their brain. So you talk about for older kids, things like Twister, you know, games like that, right. That everybody loved, right? I mean, as a kid, you love. I love Twister, you know, and Blowing Bubbles and Hot Potato and Spot It's. And Simon says different cleaning games. So, you know, even just washing a window, I mean, we loved washing my dad's car when we were kids. So, you know, all of that. But then going down to younger ages, you talk about the importance of crawling. This is actually building the brain. Crawling builds the brain and that there are different types of crawling that a kid could do that may not build the brain quite as well.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yes, absolutely. And it's funny you mentioned Twister. My kids just took out Twister like a week or so ago. My boys took out and they are 14 and 12 and they found it in. And they made me spin the thing and I was like, oh, now I have to play. And. And I think they did some twist on it to make it like a big kid version and they had to say something when they were on red or blue. You know, like kids, if you give them the opportunity, they can be extremely creative with how they use these games that we might think A are either old school or B for too young. Even my 14 year old took it out and like had fun with, you know, for a few minutes. It didn't last like an hour, but it was enough of an experience that he was like, this was so fun, you know, and it was, it was a great, it's great for kids to experience some of these old classic games that unfortunately too many kids are not, are not engaging with at this time. And you know, I'm sure that there's a virtual version of Twister.

[Jenny Ertz]

I always wonder. I know to talk about Twister. This is something I wonder about so often. And I don't, I just don't understand how this feels like a fairly new information. Like I didn't grow up knowing about. We're going to talk about vestibular sense and proprioception and crossing the midline and yet so many things that were created for childhood decades ago, like a merry go round worked for child development.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

Like, did they know that or were they just like, well, kids think this is fun. And how it turns out is that kids are biologically designed that the things they think are fun are good for their development.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

I absolutely think the latter. And it's funny because my mom often says to me, she's like, I don't really understand why anyone needs to follow you.

[Jenny Ertz]

What a mom.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

I know. And she's very supportive and she loves my, what I do. But what's so funny about that? She's not a technology person at all. She has no social media like my mother in law does.

[Jenny Ertz]

She would feel the same about me, don't you think? If you were like, hey, I talked to this lady, it's called 1000 hours outside. She'd be like, what the heck?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

I don't, I don't get it.

[Jenny Ertz]

Isn't that just what we do?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Does not understand social media. But it's just so funny because she'll say to me, you know, I don't know, I didn't really think about what you guys were doing. You just did it. Like, what? I don't, I don't get it. Why do people need you? Now obviously there are those cases where you know why a child needs physical therapy.

[Jenny Ertz]

Right.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Maybe they have a genetic condition, a global delay that it's a really, you know, they need help with walking. And we, you know, we could put that to the side and acknowledge that there is, you know, certainly a place, there's also this movement, certainly that you are such a spearheader for of helping our children with natural development that has been somewhat lost in I don't know how long, I mean, a Very short period of time.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yeah, I think it's been 20 years.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

And maybe only 15.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Probably around that. Which my twins are 14 and I feel like the age that I've been raising them, there's definitely been this, like, what. What happened to our childhood? What happened to kids just exploring and engaging with the world? And I certainly think. I mean, if I think about it, 14 years ago was when I got my own iPhone. Right. And there's definitely. I'm sure, you know, I don't want to make any bold statements. I'm not anti phones, but. But I'm sure that there's some.

[Jenny Ertz]

You know, there's a connection. There's a connection because I played Twister growing up and I remember playing Twister in high school. It was like something you did. It wasn't weird. I mean, I don't remember being embarrassed. I can picture the Twister set up in our family room and having teenagers over and the Twister game was out. And you're doing that with your friends. So the change has been relatively recent and you can see the ramifications of it.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah. I mean, even if you think about board games, okay, those are not gross motor games, but Candy Land or Monopoly, something as simple as don't knock over the board. Right. Know where your body is in space, so that if you push yourself in one direction, right. If you're not careful, you're going to ruin the whole game for everyone. Okay. That was something that we learned from very early on in childhood, was to watch your body when you're playing a board game. So many card games. Right. We. We don't. A lot of kids are not experiencing that today because there's nothing physical that they're playing with.

[Jenny Ertz]

It's so interesting because then you even talk about, okay, when you're moving your Monopoly piece, half the time, you're crossing the midline.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Correct. You're literally crossing the board. You're taking, you know, your left hand, you're crossing it over, you're reaching, you're grabbing the money. There's such an experiential. An experience that you're. You're having by just playing a board game, which we don't actually think of as motor. We don't even think of that as something that's really working our bodies. And yet being able to control your body, placing pieces in a very careful way is actually controlling your movements. Yeah, it's fine motor. It's again, that sensory piece of body awareness. There's so many things that are going on with even just playing a board game, let alone Twister and jumping on a trampoline and all those other things.

[Jenny Ertz]

And isn't it interesting? That's so interesting. You can play. I've done it one time. You can play Monopoly on a video game, and it's. However they did it. I've done it once. It was actually very compelling. You know, it draws you in because you're like, well, that would be so boring. But it wasn't. It was like a pretty legit video game. And you're pressing a button to roll the dice and all of the. I can't exactly remember, but you think about how much you lose. Then when it's all on a screen and you're not reaching over the board and you're not counting out the money, right?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

And no friend is telling you, watch your elbow. Watch. You know, it's. Your sibling is sitting. You know, nobody's yelling at you, and you're 100% correct, which is. These games are really fun. I've even played them right as you. You play them. I play games on my phone and I. There's one game that I'm like, why can't I stop playing this? This game? This is ridiculous, you know, but it's. It is a very, very different experience. They are very fun. There is something often educational about many of these games, and yet there definitely is a missed experience of not playing something live and in person, whether that is a solo game or with peers. But there's definitely. It is a very, very different experience for the brain and the body.

[Jenny Ertz]

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That's Cosmo together.com 1k ho so we're talking all the way through childhood birth. All the way through. And it's a reminder or even a first, it's a first time thought for me that these things hold a lot of value for our kids. This sort of historically normal things of childhood high ho cheerio. These different games that kids have always played, like Twister, but then also these hand clap games and jumping rope that all of these things are really, really good for development. So talk to us then about the crawling because you talk about on your website there's all these different kinds of ways that kids can crawl. And you know, we've had these different experiences where like, oh that's cute. They're doing it different. They're doing the butt scooter, they're doing the army crawl. And I know sometimes kids are. We've got a good friend and their daughter has hip dysplasia. So she's going to be in a cast during this period of time where the normal development would be you learn to crawl. And she's getting her body around different ways and she's adapting, which is so incredible how the human body is in the human brain. But if not in that situation, there is a sort of a proper way to crawl. And there's hitch crawling and inchworm crawling. I mean these are the types of things that I don't feel like I knew about until I became a parent.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Right, right. And my mom is still questioning what that is all about. Right.

[Jenny Ertz]

So.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

And you're 100% right. And so speaking actually it's a good, it's a good segue to connect. What is playing Monopoly and Twister actually have to do with crawling? Because they are connected. Okay. So when we think about crawling normally, we think of a baby just getting around, getting around the room, getting to their toys. It makes your life as a parent easier because they can get their own toys themselves. Amazing. Right?

[Jenny Ertz]

And it also makes your life harder. Especially if you had twins. I can't even imagine. I don't remember. Like as you go down the line with your kids, you're like with your first one, you can't wait. You're like, you want them to crawl, you want them to do. And then with your last one, you're like, please be a very late crawler. Like, don't move. Just sit there where I put you.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yes. My, my third one, who came two years after my twins. So I had three kids, three and under, when he was a year old. And I wanted him to be a late crawler because I said, I can't have three mobile babies. I can't, I can't do it. So I did it and I blocked it out. So what is, what does crawling actually have to do with playing Monopoly, playing Twister, et cetera? Well, again, aside from just being able to get around what we want with our babies, crawling is this tremendous experience that they are having, which is a tremendous amount of strengthening. This is the last opportunity for our children to weight bear through their upper bodies. Right. My upper body is actually pretty weak. Right. I can't do a pull up anymore. I couldn't swing on monkey bars. But our kids, because when they crawl, they develop a tremendous amount of shoulder strength, arm hand strength that is helping them with things like swinging on monkey bars, doing those pull ups and the gymnastics and all of that. Okay. It's also helping them with fine motor skills like self dressing, buttoning, tying shoes, brushing teeth, writing, coloring in the lines, good writing, endurance, a proper pencil grasp, all those things actually require a tremendous amount of strength. And without upper body strength, those tasks are extremely difficult. And so crawling is very important and crucial for those fine motor tasks that are for toddlers, preschoolers and beyond. Then of course, there's the lower body strength which is going to help with stair climbing and jumping and running. Then there's also this huge piece of sensory development that we don't talk about enough. In combination with this motor development, we think of sensory play as playing with sand or beads or water or something like that, which is all great sensory. But sensory is also our additional senses, which you touched on before of the proprioception sense and the vestibular sense. This is responsible. The proprioceptive sense is responsible for body awareness. Where is my body in space? And the vestibular sense is responsible for balance. And the way these senses are developed over time is through the proprioception sense develops through a lot of deep pressure through the muscles and the joints of the body and a little traction or pull at the joints. And the vestibular sense develops through a lot of movement against gravity in different ways. If your head is moving against gravity in different ways. The vestibular sense is actually housed in the inner ear. And so think of like your. Yourself on the roller coaster and you're getting all nauseous. That's your vestibular sense going crazy a little bit. When our kids are spinning in circles and rolling down hills and giving them all these. Giving themselves all these crazy experiences, which.

[Jenny Ertz]

Is what they do on their own.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

They do it on their own and we're like, stop spinning. Stop spinning. No, this is their brain feeding the vestibular sense, developing that vestibular sense so that later on they have better balance. And when I talk about the. The proprioceptive sense, that body awareness helps with grading force. So how gently to pet your dog, how to gently place a block on a block tower, how to not knock over the monopoly board, how to not bump into your friend who's sitting right next to you and maintain that space apart from you. And so these are all really important parts of the development. And crawling again, it's moving that head against gravity in all different ways. They're up, they're down, they're rolling around, they're sitting up, they're crawling. So they're moving their head a lot against gravity when they are crawling and moving in and out of different positions. And the proprioceptive sense is developing because there is so much pressure being applied through so many of the joints in the body. Once they're up on two feet, how much sensory input is happening through to, you know, less surface area. Right? And so we are getting so much more input when we are crawling. Full body rolling and crawling gives these senses life. Okay? They are. They are like on fire from these motor experiences. And so when our babies are either skipping them altogether, this is a problem for both the strength and the sensory development and the crossing midline and bilateral coordination. Think of your, you know, using, you know, both right and left sides to crawl on all fours. You're using both sides in coordination. You're scanning across your field. So you're developing that crossing, midline, bilateral coordination, hand eye coordination as well. So it's like the list goes on and on in terms of what is happening through crawling. The challenge then also is, okay, we now know that we want our babies to crawl. But as you said, there are all these interesting ways that babies come up with that if they can't crawl on all fours, they're going to find a different way. And that's actually an important point that I really want to stress, which is crawling on all fours is the way that babies would normally naturally Crawl. This is the easiest actual way to crawl. Even though you might have a baby is crawling in a different way. You're like, oh, but they're, they're so fast. They just. That's the way they want to crawl. There's a reason that they're crawling in an atypical way, because crawling on all fours is the most energy efficient. Just like you're not going to hop, you're going to walk on two feet, right? Because that's the most energy efficient way. Even if you're a great hopper, it's not the most energy efficient way. So if they are crawling in a different way, there is a reason why if they are stuck in army crawling, army crawling is a typical part of development, but we want them to progress on from there. If they are army crawlers, there is a strength problem. They don't have the strength in their upper body or lower body or core to get up on all fours if they're moving asymmetrically. I see babies sometimes, you know, bend one arm and they're kind of shuffling along or they're kicking off with one foot. There's usually tightness associated with one side, a strength imbalance. And then the challenge is, is they're not then getting equal input, equal strengthening and sensory input to both sides of the body equally, which then is challenging for coordination and all the other skills later on.

[Jenny Ertz]

This is good to know. People can check out the membership if they have concerns or questions. All babies should naturally crawl on all fours. This is from the website. If they're not, there's an underlying reason, and it deserved attention. Babies don't skip or alter crawling patterns just for fun. They're compensating for something, whether it's weakness, tightness, asymmetry, or discomfort. When we overlook these signs, we miss a critical window to build the foundation they need for future milestones.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

We.

[Jenny Ertz]

And it is interesting. I never would have considered, Allison, how much of your body is pressing against the ground when you crawl. And we had the ones, you know, some of our kids, all the sensory experiences that they have, you know, you put them on grass and then they would like lift their butt in the air so their knees didn't touch, you know, for a little bit. But they have to get used to all those different senses and it's really good for them. So you talk about crawling on different surfaces. And I felt like when we got outside, now we didn't. I didn't start researching this until our middle was about six months. We've got five kids. So the Older two had already crawled. And then we were on the third one was about crawling age. And then I just was starting to scratch the surface. But it is interesting. I used to think when a child crawls outside, there are so many different inputs that they receive because there's a slight gradient to the grass. I mean, they're going to go down, there's going to. They're going to fill that pole if they're going down, if they're going up, if they got to go over a log.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

If you.

[Jenny Ertz]

They're touching dirt, there's little ants down there. And so you could just see how crawling outdoors gives so many opportunities for sensory input.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

100%. And while you might be like, oh, my baby's getting all these dirty hands and, you know, I have to clean them up and all of that, and we don't want them to put rocks in their mouths, right? There's all this, like, fear of taking a crawling baby outside. But the sensory experience that they are getting is tremendous. They are feeling the grasp. Our palms have a tremendous amount of sensory receptors. That's why we're more sensitive. And our hands, you know, the bottoms of our feet and our palms of our hand. And so when they are touching all these different surfaces, there is so much feedback that is going to the brain about where their body is in space, their ability to touch different textures, experience different things. And what you said is also such an important point, which is sometimes, initially, babies don't like it. That's okay, that's okay. We don't have to then avoid it completely. We can expose them or we can start off slow. Maybe they start on a blanket, then you put some grass on the blanket. There are ways to ease them into it if they are adverse to touching these different, different textures. But that exposure is so great for their overall development. And it is so wonderful to bring them outside and experience all those different environments.

[Jenny Ertz]

And then they just have room to roam. And I think that the nature itself is. Engages with them in a way that's enhancing. So, I mean, I've got videos of our kids crawling after a turtle. You know, you can buy those. I remember we had this toy, and it was like a toy that moved. And the purpose of it was for your kid to, like, want to crawl after it. Nobody cared about that. But I tell you what, if there is a turtle out there, they're. They're trying to touch it. Why is it moving? Why does it look like that? So it's just, there's. It's full of enticing. Opportunities. And then you talk about that as they get older, which is why I love this birth to big kids engaging in a way that the ground is uneven and they're having to climb over sticks. This is helping with their vestibular sense. I think one of the interesting things, Allison, is that these things seem like they're not important. So, I mean, I've heard the vestibular sense. This is how it's presented. It's like, you know, so that your body. You know where your body is in space. Okay. You know, so then you think as a parent, well, whatever. If a kid bumps into a wall here or there eventually, and it kind of just feels like, gosh, or balance. Oh, you know, does that really matter? And then how hard do you press? Okay. Like that matters maybe a little bit more. And in effect, I had this experience recently. Okay. I went to this conference now it was like a Christian conference. So sometimes they do they hold hands when you pray. I was like, I hadn't done this in like a forever, since I was like a kid. And I was standing next to this famous singer. Her name is Carrie Jobe. And I'm like, she's a really famous singer. And I ended up standing next to her anyway, so you have to hold their hand. And I would the whole time, Elton. I was like, am I squeezing too hard? Am I not squeezing hard enough? I don't really know how hard I'm squeezing. It's like super awkward all of a sudden.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

You were very aware of your body. Yeah, like, super aware.

[Jenny Ertz]

I was like, when is this prayer gonna end?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

This is so awkward.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yes. Super aware of my body. But to the point, it's like, well, it would be easy to brush that off. Like, that doesn't really matter. Like, because, okay, maybe you hold their hand too squeezy or not squeezy enough. But can you just. I. I mean, I need to really. People need to understand how important this is because childhood has become sitting. And so this thought of feeding the brain and getting the head out of the upright position, that's historically normal childhood. But today's childhood is sitting. But in this really matters.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yes. And I, I would love if preschools would go back to the play based model. And enough of the sitting. If you want the kids to sit for five minutes, okay. But there should be so much more movement in their day. Because as we're saying, these sensory, Sensory development crossing midline, it's all growing over time over these critical years. And all those skills are what they need to eventually set but they don't have the opportunity to practice. It's like a vicious cycle. It really is. And so let me give you a few examples of how your child might struggle in, in the school setting if they don't have good body awareness and good vestibular sense. Strong vestibular sense. And even the strength piece, which I think is undervalued as well. We think of strength as like, well, my child doesn't need to do a push up, you know, but it's not, it's not just that kind of strength. Right. We're not asking them to bench press anything. We're actually asking them to just sit up. Right. And that takes strength. So I'll give you a few scenarios. Let's say your child is sitting in circle time, which these kids in preschool and kindergarten are doing a lot of sitting in circle time. And I've been in these kindergarten classrooms and preschool classrooms, and there are kids who are literally falling on their friends. They can't sit up for this amount of time. And they are leaning on their friend and they're falling forward and they're lying down on the floor. Right. Some of that is boredom. Okay, we'll put that to the side. But, but, but sometimes it's their postural muscles aren't strong enough to maintain a sitting position for an extended period of time. Okay. More often though, it's actually that body awareness piece that they don't know where their body is and so they look for external feedback. So I'll give a school example of your. The child is walking in line from their classroom to the cafeteria. And this child has their hand brushing along every bulletin board in the hallway because they need that feedback from the outside to tell them where their body is so that they're not lost in space if you close your eyes. In New Jersey here we have a museum that has a dark touch tunnel to experience what the blind feel like. And it's this dark tunnel I actually crawl through. And you are constantly touching, touching your environment. If you close your eyes and you were navigating through even your own home, but let alone not your home in a place that you're less familiar with and you're navigating, you are touching everything around you because you're like, where am I? Okay, that's what I want you to think about when you're. What, what is a child that lacks body awareness feel like they feel a little bit blind. They have their vision. Okay. But for these kids, that's not enough. They also need that tactile input to make up for the fact that they don't have that body awareness. We talk about, you know, when we think about the blind. I think it's a good example that I've. I've gone to a few different blind museums, actually. And if you speak to a blind person, they'll say, you use your other senses, right? You, your smell sense and your. Your auditory sense and your touch sense, Those become so much stronger to make up for the lack of sight. So too, if you're lacking the proprioception sense of that body awareness. Where is my. Where is my hand? Where are my toes? You are going to use your other senses, usually the tactile sense, to tell you where your body is in space. And so you are going to be touching everything. And that's where, again, this sense does take time to develop. That's why we are often telling children to stop touching things and be careful and all those kind of things. But for the kids who are, you know, delayed in this area and lacking, it's even more so. These are also the kids that if they're weak in the vestibular, in the proprioception sense, they're the kids that all of a sudden fall off their chair. They were sitting on a chair, and then they just fell off of it. And you're like, stop. What are you doing? You know, behave, listen, sit nicely. And they're like, I have no idea how I just got onto the floor because I thought I was sitting, but I had no awareness around me. I didn't know what to do with my body, and I just fell off. And so these are some of the experiences. I say again, that grading force is also very much a part of that proprioception sense of. How hard do you press your pencil? As you said, how hard do I hold this friend's hand? Right.

[Jenny Ertz]

He wasn't my friend.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah. Or not the friends. Right. This random person.

[Jenny Ertz]

Super awkward. Yeah.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

And so it's. How hard do I press my pencil? How hard do I erase? You know those kids who either write too lightly or too.

[Jenny Ertz]

How hard do I hit when I play tag?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yes.

[Jenny Ertz]

That's why they're banning it.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Exactly. It's so many of these experiences that our children. You don't even realize that that's all connected, but it actually is. And sometimes it's mistaken for a behavior problem, and sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. And it's kids who are really lacking in this area, and they really don't know how to fix it. This episode is brought to you by J.C. penney yes, JCPenney and if you've been there recently, you know it's the place to go. For jaw dropping, look at bragworthy prices. They've got something special for every style and budget, not to mention rewards and deals that make finding those hidden gems even sweeter. If you already shop JCPenney, you're already in on the secret. But if not, it's time to ask. Wait, am I sleeping on jcpenney? Shop jcpenney.com yes jcpenney this episode is.

[Jenny Ertz]

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[Dr. Alison Mel]

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[Jenny Ertz]

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[Dr. Alison Mel]

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[Jenny Ertz]

See for [e-mail] this is really helpful because what it paints a picture of is that if it doesn't develop through the natural ways that it's supposed to develop, which is kids that are playing outside, kids that are rolling down hills, kids that are not sitting in front of a screen, not sitting with an iPad in front of their face because their head isn't moving, then it takes up too much bandwidth. Later on you have to think about it too much. Yeah, it occupies too much when you should be focusing on something else. During circle time, you should be learning the song. During circle time, you should be learning what day of the week it is. You should be listening to the story. But you can't Correct.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Correct. Because you're so focused. And again, it's like it's saying that your environment now has gone to the next level. What you were expected to do in your environment is now at a higher level and you're still working through some of these earlier things that you were supposed to. So it's as if a child never got down adding and subtracting and now they're in an algebra class because they didn't get those foundational skills first. How could they possibly do algebra if you can't add and subtract? Right. You're like focusing on, on thinking about the adding and all this when the problems got way harder. Right. Or you know, you know, all those experiences where you think about the environment has now gone to the next level. And so as you said that everybody else is now expected to sing the song and climb the stairs on their way to lunch or to art class. And this child who's struggling, whether it's the sensory experiences, the strength piece or a combination of both, is struggling to keep up at the basic level. And so now everything else feels even harder.

[Jenny Ertz]

Wow. And it's tricky to go backwards because you know you're not going to probably have your 9 year old crawl around.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

It's.

[Jenny Ertz]

It is really interesting. I mean, I'm sure that there are different therapies and things that people do for crossing the midline. And you do all these different activities and you know, you think about your own childhood. Like I think about my childhood. We did wheelbarrow. So it was like, you know, someone would hold your legs and then you would walk on your hands in front. We did the crab crawl. We did so many things that now we did somersaults and cartwheels and hanging on the monkey bars. So many things that naturally developed that, so that then you can focus on what you need to as you get older. What do you suggest for parents who have missed some of those windows?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Sure. And I also want to add in that I'm painting a, you know, a tougher case scenario. There's always going to be a range of how your child, you know, if your child did miss crawling, all is not lost. Okay. You didn't like completely mess, right?

[Jenny Ertz]

Well, like you said, there's all of these different opportunities to practice it through older skills. And I would be doing that hand clapping all the time. I will learn Miss Mary Mac all dressed in black. You know, I would learn all of them. And you start to do those with their kids. There's new ones now. My kids know all of these.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

I know I can't keep up with what my kids.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yeah, and they're fun.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

But.

[Jenny Ertz]

But you're doing that instead of being on a screen. Like you're doing that instead of, you know, when you're waiting, instead of being on a screen, that there are these other things that you can do. But. But to your point though, in terms of like, you're like, there's a range here. I mean, you definitely are hearing about teachers who say this is a common, very common thing. 40 times a week someone falls out of their chair or something like that.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

It's really becoming a more common thing in classroom than you wouldn't hear of this decades ago, that wasn't a thing.

[Jenny Ertz]

The only time that you would ever fall is because you would tip your chair back. And then every once in a while you would misjudge while you're giving yourself.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

The vestibular impot of rockets.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yeah, you are. Yeah, you're trying to wake your brain up. But even then, I think kids hardly fell. Like you knew exactly how far back you could go and then you'd bring it forward.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Exactly. And we gave ourselves those, those experiences because the body naturally wants to feed itself all this sensory input. Our kids want this. There's a reason that they want to run around. There's a reason that they are all over, even when they're watching a screen. How many times have you seen your kid lie upside down while they're watching that screen because their brain is seeking out this vestibular input. Let me hang upside down off the couch while I'm watching the screen, which looks completely impossible, but yet our kids are doing, trying to give themselves what they need in the capacity that they can. And so, yes, I'm painting that there is that range. There are those things that you might see. Okay, my kid doesn't fall off a chair, but they do struggle with how gently to pet the dog and how, you know, to play with blocks, et cetera. Like, you might see different things along the path. And so I gave like kind of all the things that you would see or a lot of them, but you might not see all of them and you might see some et cetera. And so what we want to do with our kids, which can happen so much in nature in general, is Having all these experiences. So, like, all of these types of things where they are rolling in the grass, where they are. I'm a big fan of trampolines. I know that there's always, like, a safety issue. I'm a huge fan of trampolines. I'm like, go for it. My son has taught himself how to backflip and front flip and side flip, and I'm like, go for it. Like, he. He actually watched YouTube videos to teach himself how to do it. And I'm like, great. Like, I will take that, you know, and, like, even my kids actually play a game called belts. Is that a thing that, you know, I don't.

[Jenny Ertz]

I don't know. I'll ask my kids.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Belts. Okay. It's. It's an amazing game where you take. They use shoes or two sticks, and you can only jump with one foot in or. Or a certain number of steps with. Between the two sticks. So it starts off with, like, one jump, and then you can do two jumps, but you keep moving the stick further and further away. And so the number of steps you do climbs, but the distance you have to go also climbs. And so it's a great game that my kids play. And all of this type of timing yourself, jumping that deep input through the ground into your feet, jumping over things, rolling, even crawling as a kid, playing twister, where their arms are on the floor, swinging on monkey bars. These are all things that are giving them a lot of strengthening opportunities and sensory experiences that are going to feed their systems and really set them up for success. I mean, this is the goal. And again, there are some kids that are. That are going to need additional help because they really struggle in this area. But even for our typically developing, they're on the right track. They need all these experiences. And when they're not having them, we are just seeing that much more of an effect in the classroom.

[Jenny Ertz]

It's so exciting. It's so exciting, Allison, because then when you look outside and your kid is hanging from monkey bars, or your kid is laying in the grass reading a book, you are reminded this is really a worthwhile thing. This really matters. This is really going to help them. Because you do talk about school readiness. And we often think, when we think of school readiness, we think about, can they count to 20? Do they know their states? I don't know. Whatever. I guess that's probably not one. But, you know, can they count? Can they trace letters? Have we done the flashcards? But you talk about how strength, just straight up strength is something that's needed for school readiness. And there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things, even this, the socializing. So all of this is so helpful for parents to be aware of. And it's exciting because it reminds you that the simple things that they are naturally doing are aiding in their development. We've never really talked about in. Is it pronounced interoception?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Interoception, yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

Okay. We've never really talked about that. When you say there's the three secret senses, proprioception. We've talked some about. We've talked some about vestibular sense, but the other one we've never talked about on this show at all. I don't think. Hopefully I'm not offending anyone who has talked to us about it.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

All good. The interoception sense is, I think, the most secret sense. And it. It's the sense of how is my body working internally? So that feeling of, I need to go to the bathroom, I'm hungry, I don't feel well. Those are all part of the interoception sense of like, you know, you're like, well, what kind of stomachache do you have? Well, kids can't answer that. My children still in their, you know, between early teen stage, they still have a hard time answering that. It's, it's. It's a sense that takes time to develop. Certainly our babies and toddlers can't tell you, you know, what's going on internally, but they start to, when they learn that they can go to the bathroom, right? That they start developing that sense of I need to go to the bathroom, I'm. Well, hunger is certainly a sense that is right there from birth, but that is what the interoception sense is now. It's a harder sense to target. And I researched a little bit about how to facilitate this. It's not something I really do professionally in my scope as a pt, but my understanding is that in order to facilitate, again, some of it is naturally going to happen on its own just because as maturity and understanding and experiencing your body in different ways. But also a lot of those deep input activities, a lot of what I would say are the proprioceptive activities of that deep pressure and input are actually also really helping with that interoception sense. A lot of it is really about brain development. It's really about the brain and body making those connections so that we're more aware of what is going on in our body.

[Jenny Ertz]

It's so important to know about these things. You talk about how play is preparation. There's this woman named Dr. Madeline Levine. I really like her books. And one of the things she says is she said something like an old fashioned childhood still is what prepares kids for what they need. So things like jump rope, things like chores, hopscotch clan clap games, playing on the playground, you know, even in a highly technological age, those are still what is needed. And so if you were to give sort of. It's a really big question and I, I don't love asking big questions, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Go for it.

[Jenny Ertz]

Overarching advice because here's how I feel. Now our kids are older, 17 to 9, and we haven't had to deal with much of this because they've just done an old fashioned childhood to a degree. You know, they've played outside and it's been real simple things, nothing extravagant. If we were to give overarching advice to a parent of a young child in a technological age where the technology is everywhere and we're kind of nervous about it, what would you tell them to do with their time?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah, it is a very big question and it's actually something that I have found myself navigating as a parent, especially as my kids have gotten older. And I'll even say why I think technology, it's unavoidable really because this is the age that we live in. For example, my daughter who's also now 14, a few years ago she wanted a phone, right? And I think it was fifth grade that she. And she's not the one that always wants things first, you know, she is. It's not like I need to have it first. Not even it was. Most of her friends already had cell.

[Jenny Ertz]

Phones, which is so wild.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

It's crazy.

[Jenny Ertz]

In fifth grade and I'm gonna, I'm told stories on here that I feel like as soon as they hit school, the pressure's there.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

The pressure is there from the get go. And I'm going to tell you from the get I gave her one, okay. We actually delayed it for my son who's her twin brother. And which is interesting because I don't treat like I have twins, but they're different kids. And I and boy girl also. And what I actually. And the reason this specifically was actually a boy girl thing where I realized that girls at 10, 11, 12 years old, they talk to their friends after school. And when we were growing up we had landlines. I don't have a landline. None of my friends have landlines. There is no landline for them to call. And so what I and When I told myself initially, I'm not getting my kids phones till whatever made up number that I had said, you're forced to. Right. There was this aspect of you're not.

[Jenny Ertz]

Forced to, but this is how society is set up now. And you're like, if I want my kid to talk to a friend after school, this is the only option.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yes. And I actually was talking to one of my friends yesterday because this same daughter is now babysitting a lot. And one of my friends said, you know, would you ever send your daughter to babysit without a phone anymore? They don't. The homeowners don't have landline. They took their cell phones with them. There is no phone. What if they needed to call 911 from. My 14 year old is there by herself without a phone. Like that's not even an option. Right. So we are living in a society.

[Jenny Ertz]

Bring back the landlines.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Right. It's like, it's so interesting because that was the first time that I myself realized what I'm up against. I guess that's a bad phrase.

[Jenny Ertz]

I think that's a good way to phrase it.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah, I think that's a really good.

[Jenny Ertz]

Way to phrase it. It's like your hand is forced to a degree.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

My hand was forced.

[Jenny Ertz]

Something else. It's some, some external situation is forcing your hand one way or the other. Yeah.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

And when my kids were little, I had this, you know, ideology that I'm going to delay phones and, and no phone. And no phone. And the reality is it's a social piece that we as kids also had a social piece of calling our friends after school, but we don't, they don't have the same opportunity with no landlines. And then for the safety issue. And when my friend brought up that babysitting because my daughter, I was like, you're so right. How could I send her into a home watching little children and there's no phone available to her? That, that would be crazy. So there's that aspect, which I want to remind parents that we are in a world where technology is huge. And I also see it in the school setting. My kids, all their homework is online. They are learning math on, on apps now. They don't ever ask me for paper, scratch paper. And I will. You can't do this without scratch paper. I feel like this, you know, ancient person. And they're like, we don't need that.

[Jenny Ertz]

And I was like, what is a scratch paper?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Right. They're like, what is scratch paper? That, by the way, that's exactly what they said to me, and I was like, like, what are. What is happening right now that you don't know what scratch paper is? I am really not happy.

[Jenny Ertz]

But this is a big deal because it's all. When you're writing, a lot of times, you're crossing the midline. You're. You're dealing with the proprioception of how much pressure you put. And then the writing connects with the brain. So there's this man, Mike McLeod. His company is called Grow Now ADHD, and he says it is his mission to kill ed tech in schools forever. I mean, that's a good mission I have.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

I mean, the amount of time that kids are now spending on technology in school, like, this is the thing also that I've realized is. And again, it really depends on the school and what they have there. But there are smart boards. Okay. But the amount of time that kids are my kids. Homework is now. YouTube videos. They're supposed to watch a YouTube video and answer questions.

[Jenny Ertz]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

What are we doing? The material that they're studying from tests is slides that were made on Canva and they're emailed to them, and now they're reading them on the iPad. Okay. This is all part of the. The school. But it's even in younger ages where there are more. There's more technology in our schools. And so one of the things that I thought earlier on was that when my kids are going to school, you know, they're not on screens at all. And then they come home and, okay, we play a little, and then they watch tv. And then I realized, like, how much more time our kids are actually experiencing education through screens. And that you even have to, like, offset that as well. Like, it's that much more time that they're experiencing all these things that you think you're sending them off to, like, just learn and. And the learning is happening on technology. So we are living in a world for sure that this is what we are up against. It's. It's too many, in many ways, very unavoidable. And I have. And I have also seen with babies. And I don't blame parents for this at all, because if I had a baby today, it would be the exact same thing, which is I see babies who. The only motivating thing that we can get them to roll for, crawl for, is the phone, because the parents are holding the phone. And babies want what the parents have, right? That it's just a natural. They used to like the remote control and other things, but now literally our remote control is now the phone also like my, like it's, there's so much that's on the phone. And so I will say to parents, I do not judge. Like if that's what we're using as the motivator for our purposes. There is no judgment for me. It's just, it's actually just an observation that I've seen, right. Which is that babies from.

[Jenny Ertz]

And it is so I mean like what age?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

No, like, like six or seven months. Like very, very.

[Jenny Ertz]

They want the phone, right?

[Dr. Alison Mel]

They want the phone. And if you think about it again, I. My last, my youngest is now 8, turning 9. So it's been a while since I was in that newborn phase. Even when you're feeding your baby, you know you're sitting there scrolling, you're on your phone because you know that's a way for you to relax and all that. But it's there, it's a presence and that's what's in that baby's life and what they're looking at a lot. And so they're going to naturally gravitate towards it because you're holding it and it's fun. They want to grab your necklace and your phone and your hair and eat it and all that kind of stuff. And so, and I, and I really always say, I don't have any judgments about it because I think it's the world that we live in. What I tried to do with my own children and what I try to recommend to other families is finding the time that you are going to set aside for that screen free opportunity for you. And so what I did with my kids because I had four kids in five and a half years so they were very close together and my life was chaotic and I couldn't handle all of everything. And so I used to pick them up from school daycare at like 4 o'. Clock. We would come home and we would immediately like have a snack and go to my basement because in New Jersey it's very cold. I'm not a cold person. I love being outside, but I'm not a cold person. So on nice weather days we were absolutely outside. It was like I would like force everyone like outside, outside, outside. And sometimes, you know, on bad weather days we would go to my basement where we would. I was like, okay, we are here for an hour. Like that was my goal, was we need to get through this hour and it is just play. And I had so many different like open ended toys in my basement, Hula hoops and I filled a duvet cover with lots of pillows and blankets. And they would jump off of something and onto the duvet cover. And we would set obstacle courses and they would have talent shows and all these different things. That, that was our experience that when we came home and then at that. Okay. Then we did dinner baths. I did homework with my older kids as they needed it. And that was kind of like our day. And. And it's. It's hard, but it's also important.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yeah. So you're building in the offset.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

And that's. That's what you need to do. Because the. One of the things you talk about with the vision is the eyes are crossing the midline. Right. So this is something that's happening. And when you read a book, your eyes are crossing the midline, but when you read a screen, it moves in the shape of an F. And so your eyes move in a different, different pattern. So that's an interesting thing too. So, yeah, we're all working to offset the ed tech.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

We're working to off that. It's the best we can do in the environment. Like, we have to live in the age that we're living in. Right. Every other generation and century had its challenges. Right. Or diseases or more. Whatever there was out there. We definitely are in a great time to be living. And yet we also see this tremendous, like, what is happening to our kids and their experiences and how do we offset that and give them our own experiences that we loved and cherished when we were little? Yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

Can you weave it in? And what you do is you entice people and remind them or teach them for the first time how important it is. And I think we're more motivated to do those things when we realize, you know, we're more. More motivated to take our child outside and let them crawl in the dirt, even though they're going to get really dirty. We're more motivated to do that when we know, oh, this is really beneficial for them both now and in the long run. So people can check out the Tot spot [e-mail] you also have your blog with tons of information. I actually have 10 pages of notes here. And your Instagram. Alison, this has been fantastic. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That's outside.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

I remember going to Hershey park one summer with my family and we stayed in some, like, days and suites type of thing, but there was a pond outside with ducks. And what's funny is that's actually what I remember most about that trip was feeding the ducks every night and going outside with some bread and throwing it to the ducks and just enjoying that. That was a really, really amazing experience. And I'm gonna add one more. I do remember also when I was probably 11, 12, going out one day with a few friends on our bikes and pretending that we were the girls from now and then. And literally, I think for five or six hours we were out. I don't think anyone knew where we were. And we were in the neighborhood, you know, and there were no phones and we were pretending that we were like this free spirited 1970s, you know, time. But it was, it was the 90s and it was actually, I look back at that day as like one of the fondest memories of just feeling very independent and, and having such a great time, which is not something our kids will ever experience today. They might feed the ducks, but they are not going to experience that freedom of no one really knowing where they are because we always know where our kids are because of technology, which is safer. But also, that was one of my favorite days because I felt so grown up. And so, yeah, it is a big.

[Jenny Ertz]

It is a big deal. That's an interesting piece that you bring up. And you know, depending on your community, it's possible that you can try and weave that back in because Dr. Peter Gray talks about how when people reminisce on their fondest childhood memories outside and find his childhood memories in general almost exclusively, the adults are not there.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

And probably because you feel this sense of accomplishment and confidence and we don't track. Our oldest is driving. We don't track. And most, I think most people do.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Most people, I have friends whose kids are driving and they have like life360, I think it is where they like, they'll, they'll watch their kids drive to school and drive and.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yeah. Yes. And well. But you can consider, you can think about, if you really think about it, how much more anxiety that causes.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Yeah.

[Jenny Ertz]

Because you're constantly checking. And so I feel. No, I was just talking to a friend the other day because she, like, really, you know, she's like, I follow. I'll drive behind my daughter. Like, I'm so nervous. And she's like, you don't do it, you don't track. I don't. And I say that's just kind of how it was. You trusted. They're gonna come home.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

It's a real challenge now. I think more than ever of our kids are so trackable and yet they do feel like somebody's watching all the time. I do often think about it, that our kids feel like cameras are in their faces all the time. They're being videotaped all the time. They're being tracked all the time. I mean, it's a new reality for them. There is that sense. You're 100% correct. I didn't even connect that, like, great day, with how free and independent I felt in that. In that stage. But there's. Our kids are not going to have that. And it also has yielded kids being much more reliant on the adults in their lives because they always know that somebody is at the ready to rescue them. And that's not really, in my opinion, such a good thing. They need to be able to problem solve.

[Jenny Ertz]

Yeah, well, people tell stories like, okay, we played in the woods in our house. We got a little lost, but we found our way home. You're like, well, there's a lot of value in that. So it's just. Yeah, it is interesting. It's a lot to think through. It's a lot to think through. And I feel like framed in this conversation of development, it helps you to make your decisions because then you know what some of the outcomes might be and what are some of the ramifications. And if we have a little bit more freedom and they might do a little bit more risky things and that's good for their development. On your website, people can go. They can go, and they can check that out. So, Allison, this has just been such a gift, and I know that what you provide for families is so helpful for them because there are a lot of questions swirling around about these things. Thank you so much for being here.

[Dr. Alison Mel]

Thank you so much for having me.