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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 563: We Took Our Kids on a 2,650-Mile Walk | Vince Strawbridge, Pretty Good at Walking
00:52:29
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- [00:00]
A
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@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have an incredible guest on today who did the most incredible journey with his family where they walked the Pacific Crest Trail, PCT, the whole thing, it's like over 2, 500 miles. It is absolutely incredible. Husband, wife and their kids and wrote a book about it. It's called Pretty Good at Walking a Family Journey by Vince Strawbridge. Vince, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
- [00:58]
A
Oh, thank you. I'm glad to be here.
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B
So you, you sent me this book and signed it. You put Jenny's favorite book of 2025, which I gotta kick out of. Oh, it is, it is a phenomenal book. It is quite the adventure. Like way bigger than anything I've ever even dreamed of doing. And you did it. So you literally are walking from Canada to Mexico, walking with kids from Canada to Mexico. Give us the backstory of, you know, you, you're on the other side of the country, so you could have gone, done the Appalachian Trail, but you do this like 60 mile hike and you like that with your kids. And so you're like 60 miles, 2,500 miles. Let's try it.
- [01:42]
A
Yes, that's true. Yeah. So our successful 60 mile hike came into the, into the moment of my wife having been talking with a friend about someday after the kids were gone, doing a hike on, you know, a through hike on the Appalachian Trail. And so it kind of came into that context that we did this 60 mile hike. And I looked at my wife after the hike and I was like, you know what, that hike that you were thinking about doing after the kids are gone, what if we just took them? So she, she said, she said, well, you're gonna have to get Aiden, that's our oldest daughter, you're gonna have to get her out of school in order to, to do that. And she was pretty sure the principal wouldn't let her. Aiden was in a four year program and when the principal said yes, she was of course a little bit nervous because now it became a possibility. Then we had to decide on one trail. And so our idea about which trail to take was one of many, you know, one of three major trails in the country. The Appalachian, as you say, was the most obvious because it was close at hand. But we'd done a lot of hiking there. And so we thought, well, if we're going to do it once, we should, you know, just go big, go for the different thing. And so we had found out some information about the Pacific Crest Trail and decided to head out, head out west for five months.
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B
You're going to be walking. I mean, okay, so your kids at the time were 16, 14, 13, 11. The younger ones are doing homeschool, so that works out. And then your oldest, Aiden, she, they just basically allowed her to tack on another year or another semester. It just prolonged her time in high school. I just think even that is so out of the box of what people do and so bold. Were you nervous about that?
- [03:28]
A
Was I nervous about, about just prolonging her high school?
- [03:32]
B
Like nobody does that.
- [03:34]
A
I did ask her and I did ask her permission. She's the one that I said, hey, you know, would you be willing to do this with us? The concern. She was in an IB program and so we were concerned that she couldn't leave and come back. You would have appreciated quite a lot. I think this principal, she was an amazing person to talk to. It turns out she was on her way out, she was leaving. And so she really wasn't allowed to grant permission for the thing that she granted. She was just. My friend described it, he worked with the school board there and he described it as she was on the way out, so she was making decisions she thought were consistent with what education should be, not what the rules were. And so she gave us permission we didn't really have, so we were able to come back. It was, it was fantastic for Aiden because it was a good program that she was participating in and it was nice to be able to leave and come back. And an unusual opportunity.
- [04:24]
B
Yeah, so it's a good program, but also a good opportunity to be able to have this incredible experience of walking over 2,500 miles. So can you talk us just through some of the logistics? You learn about this in the book, it's called Pretty Good at Walking, where if someone has never considered this, like, I, I mean, I've, I've read a Couple other people's books. They're always talking about, like their toenails are falling off, but other than that, you know, like the logistics of sleeping, the logistics of supplies, like having to send things ahead. Can you talk about the planning? Is that just like such an extensive planning period?
- [05:03]
A
It is. I spent an enormous amount of hours on YouTube videos watching people's dailies to just sort of set my levels of expectation. There are great resources out there that, quite honestly, I started because. Because it's a unique thing. When we did the Pacific Crest Trail, we were the largest family ever to have done so. And then when we did the Continental Divide Trail after that, we were the largest family to have done that. And then we did the Appalachian. And so in doing all of those, we were. We were not. We were not reinventing the wheel. On the Appalachian Trail, lots of families had done that before. And it's a little more obvious trail, it's a little easier logistically. The other two are complicated.
- [05:43]
B
What do you mean by that?
- [05:45]
A
The AT is kind of set up for the trail system. There are shuttle services everywhere, There are hostels everywhere. When we walked on the Continental Divide Trail, I'm throwing a little wrench in the works here talking about these other trails too, but the Continental Divide Trail, you know, is Montana to New Mexico, Canada to Mexico, and that one. A lot of towns you would get off trail and they wouldn't even know to expect you as hikers. Whereas on the at, you show up and, you know, there's hiker protocols, expectations. The people know you're there and what. What you're there for. We were thought to be a homeless family several times on the Continental Bike Trail. We even had somebody offer us some money to help us get a meal.
- [06:26]
B
Did you take.
- [06:26]
A
So he said, no, no, I should have. I definitely could have. So that's what I mean, if you were going to do one. Logistically, the AT is very simple. But since then, since then, because we were kind of in some way a little bit on the front end of doing this ourselves, I accessed a lot of really good information and planning information. Took a lot of time working through a lot of those questions because it is more complicated as a family. You don't know what to expect in terms of mileage and all those things. But as a result, I have started Facebook group and I called it Families that thru hike, you know, and there's very few people that, that would ever need to know the information, but it'd be a great place for people if. If they said, hey, this is the way that I want to tear myself away from the everyday and go do a, do a through hike with their family. It'd be a great place to talk to people and, and, and there are families there that would be better suited to advise other types of families. I didn't. The youngest I hiked with was an 11 year old. There are people that hike with 2 year olds and 3 year olds, so they have a complication that I, I never had to face.
- [07:33]
B
So wow. So lots of things that you could learn then in that Facebook group. So you go, absolutely. Your kids are 16, 14. So it's girl, girl, boy, girl, 16, 14, 13, 11 is your youngest. She was the youngest hiker on the trail. And I. There was a really cool part in the book where people are, you know, the whole, all the, the whole time they're saying things to her like, oh, you're so young. It's so impressive that you're able to do this hike and then you meet someone that's really old and she says, I think it's more impressive when the people are older. And I thought, gosh, that was a really wise and perceptive thing for someone to say. It seems to me that the youngest isn't the most impressive. It's really the oldest. So it's a really a, a cool thing you're talking about. Everyone has these trail names. This was someone I think named Tak.
- [08:17]
A
That's right, talk.
- [08:18]
B
So, okay, so logistically, and this is a question I had Vince, I didn't totally understand. So you have to sort of think through your route and so you talk about like you have a goal of how many miles a day. The book is set up really cool because you, the like almost like little section headings are how far you've gone, like the mile markers. But you don't totally get that at the beginning because you're like, well, why is this starting at 3? I was like, what is this? It took me about 18 pages to figure out what the numbers were. It was like 6.38. It was like going down and then it was going up. But you have to walk something like 30 miles or something to get to even get to the right starting point. So interesting. You've got these different headings so you have, you have to have it somewhat mapped out because you need to know when to start. And you're going south, which seems like it would be better because it's warmer. Warmer, warmer.
- [09:11]
A
But.
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B
But then you said more people go north. I'm rambling. I'm going to get to my question, there's a lot of questions in there, but you're heading south and you have this goal of about at the beginning you say 14 miles a day. Like you've mapped it out and it's a five month thing and it's 2600 something miles and you've mapped it out and so you have to send food ahead. So you're talking about like tuna packets and Snickers bars and you're packing up all of these things and shoes even. I guess like what happened when you had to, you ended up having to change your mileage in order to get to where you needed to be so that you're not in the like cold snowy mountains at the end. How did that work with all your packages that you were sending?
- [09:55]
A
Well, our, our packages, we, we packaged the first 500 miles at home, put them into the priority mailboxes, you know, which is if it fits, it ships. And we sent those to general delivery to, to post offices. And so when we got there didn't matter so much as long as they were open. You do have a limited amount of time to get to your boxes. You know, I don't know what the exact amount of days is. So we had to get them there within a certain amount of time. But to get there faster wouldn't have been a problem. But so for example, that first 500 miles we sent from home when we reached Cascade Locks, which is the end of the Washington section, we went and stayed with my cousin in Portland and we spent two and a half days shopping and packaging boxes and sending them down trail for the next section.
- [10:45]
B
Oh, that's so interesting. And it does make sense then if you get there earlier, it doesn't mess, mess it up.
- [10:52]
A
You definitely sometimes end up in a foot race with the post office's hours and holidays and things like that. So it does, it does happen that it does complicate a through hike. But in terms of the planning of that, it was, it is very simple. On that trail in particular, someone's put together a website that has all of the locations, addresses. So it's pretty easy to follow along on that one and prepare for.
- [11:16]
B
So you send the stuff ahead and then you had, you did have a situation where at one point because of the way that the deliveries came through, your stuff didn't come. And so then I ended up learning all sorts of things like this trailingo that I'd never heard of. So you talk about the hiker box. So can you talk about the hiker box? So there is one Location where your stuff just doesn't show up.
- [11:37]
A
That's right. Yeah, that's right. And so, because we're doing it because. And it's really. You know, the truth is that the perception that you have about the difficulty of the scheduling is. Does account for why those hiker boxes are placed. So if I get. If I get to a location two days ahead of my expectation, then I've got two extra days of food, and I don't want to carry in any weight that I don't need. And so at these locations that are fairly common locations for hikers to come through, they'll offload food, they'll get a pair of shoes early that they. That they didn't need yet, and they'll offload a pair of shoes for somebody. Something like that. And so at the one that we were in, it was a very remote location. And the problem was really that I got greedy because, you know, greedy for not having weight on my back. And so I had planned to carry six days. We came to the section and I realized there was a place I could ship to in the middle. And we could only carry two and a half to three days to the sec, to that middle location. And I knew it would be a bit of a race, but it was. I was going to send it FedEx, so it would get there very fast, but we beat it there. And FedEx didn't run every day of the week. And so we had. We got to a location that was a very remote location with only a little camp store, and there was no way we could really resupply there. And so we were in a bit of a bind.
- [12:54]
B
And so then you use this hiker box, and there was stuff there. And so sometimes people are leaving. Yeah, you're talking about Doritos and just, I mean, all sorts of things that got left. It's so interesting. And then the shoes is something I wouldn't think about either because for the most part, like, Americans don't walk. So, like, no one. No one is ever really wearing their shoes out except for sometimes kids, you know, kids are running around and they bust out the front of it. They, you know, they're really moving a lot. But in this case, your shoes will wear out.
- [13:26]
A
Yes. And at the end, at the bigger miles, you're. You're right. It's at the bigger miles. It was very complicated because we had a local store back home, a local running store where we'd gotten fitted for. For shoes that would be appropriate for each of our feet. And they really, for the most part got it right. But when we would call, they would have to place an order for our shoes. In particular mine, because I had a large. Large size. So we'd have to call for the order. It would take two weeks, and then they'd have to ship it. But when you only get between 5 and 800 miles on a pair of shoes, if you're walking 26 miles a day, you tend to burn through it pretty quickly.
- [14:03]
B
Well, if It's. And it's 2, 600 miles, so every single person needs three to four pairs of shoes.
- [14:09]
A
That's right.
- [14:11]
B
It's a lot of. And yours are size 16 or something. You were like, they stopped making them.
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A
That's right.
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B
Like that. This is a problem. This is a problem.
- [14:19]
A
I got a pair of New Balance sent out to me, and they were adequate, and they were good enough. Not so bad that I. I wanted to ditch them, but. But, you know, good enough that I had to keep them. And they were terrible for my feet. I couldn't feel. I couldn't feel my toes for about 800 miles. Oh, God.
- [14:36]
B
And you do talk about that. You talk about shin splints and the physical parts of.
- [14:40]
A
That's right.
- [14:40]
B
Being on the trail. 1. One of the other things that you talked about that was like, this trail lingo that I'd never heard of. Well, first of all, through hike, you know, I think I've heard of that because I've read some other books. But like, even just that language of like a through hike, a through hiker, you know, that you go the whole way, you don't just do parts of it is interesting. And to do that as a family. But you talk about trail magic, and I have never, ever heard of this. Can you tell people, like, what other people do for the hikers?
- [15:10]
A
Oh, it's amazing. The story, just the culture, it's so weird. You pick up a rock and look under it, and there's all these crazy things going on. You just didn't know. And this is a subculture that I had that experience with. We were coming into our first trail magic going southbound. The southbound crowd is much smaller than the northbound crowd.
- [15:32]
B
Can you explain that? Can you? So when you say. Because you brought that up in the book a bit, you talked about, first of all, the amount of permits. There's like a couple thousand permits of people going north as opposed to like maybe 600 of people who are going south. There was a sentence that said northbounders get a lot more trail magic. That seems counterintuitive to me. Like if, especially because we live in Michigan. I know you're from Florida. Like going south is the ideal, right? I'm like, it's warmer. So why are the southbounders less common?
- [16:02]
A
It has, it has to do with the seasons, the length of the season to accomplish the trail. So you can start as early as March going northbound and you can finish as late as October going southbound. You can't start until they. Actually the recommended is there's a snow meter on the top of Harts Pass that when it hits zero, you go two weeks after that. Now we went one week after that. But you wait till the snow drops to a certain level. It doesn't mean you won't encounter snow. There's plenty of snow still up there on the high passes. We probably walked through snow snow fields for probably 300 miles, the first 300 miles of melting Washington snow. But you can't start before the cornices are gone and all sorts of things like that in Washington. So you have to start as late as early July, mid July. And you have to be past the highest peaks, Forester Pass in Yosemite. You have to be past Forester Pass by early to mid October.
- [16:58]
B
Wow.
- [16:59]
A
And so the window that you race is. Is that.
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B
Wow, that's so interesting. And that makes so much sense. It has to do with when you can start. So then you have to go faster.
- [17:10]
A
That's right. Which I didn't know I didn't account for. I just thought we'll go south because it makes more sense with our school calendar.
- [17:17]
B
Yeah, right, right, yeah. Oh, so interesting. Okay. Healing takes courage, but it also takes the right support. What if it started with a step away from the noise, a proven approach and a puppy? Capstone Wellness is here to help with a unique model founded on faith and clinical excellence. For teen boys and young men struggling with trauma, mental health and addiction, Capstone treatment center provides a safe place to begin their healing journey. Every boy receives a Labrador retriever puppy on admission and takes that puppy home when they graduate. Paired with deep therapy work, these pups help teach responsibility, nurture attachment and bring families together. For individuals, couples or families who aren't looking for residential care, vine and root intensives cover months of world class counseling in a concentrated multi day package designed to retrace hurt back to the root. For over 24 years, Capstone has helped thousands of families on their path to healing. Learn more@capstonewellness.com 1000 hours. That's capstonewellness.com hey friends, it's Jenny Erst from 1000 Hours Outside it's 2025. Are you still feeding your kids like it's 2005? That's where nurture Life comes in. They're a game changing meal delivery service made just for babies and kids ages 10 months to 10 years and they are saving my sanity. Nurture Life meals are fresh, fully cooked and ready in just one minute. That means when my kids come home from homeschool co op starving and each one wants something different, I'm not scrambling. Last night we were on the go so my crew had spaghetti and meatballs and Mac and cheese meals. They love that I actually feel good. What I love most is that Nurture Life takes the stress out of feeding my kids on those days when schedules are hectic. No guesswork, no begging them to try veggies. It's all dietitian designed, allergy friendly and yes, I've even snuck a few bites myself. You choose from over 50 rotating meals and snacks. Nurture Life does the cooking and everything arrives at your door chilled and ready to go. So head to nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55 off your first order plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com 1000hours55and make sure you use my prom code 1000hours55. Even if you aren't a parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our code so our show gets the credit. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. The other day my lamp broke. It's my bedside lamp and I use it to read late into the night because I'm always preparing for this podcast. It broke. It actually won't turn off unless I unplug it. And so I needed to find a new lamp for my bedside. And my favorite place to go of all places to go is Wayfair. Wayfair is a perfect place to go if your tableside lamp breaks, but it's also the perfect place to kick off your back to school and fall season prep. Everything comes so fast and they have an amazing selection of things from cozy bedding and linens to storage solutions for every room. They always have you covered. Plus their huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find just what we need to transition smoothly into the fall besides lamps and linens. And they even have playsets. We have the most incredible playset in our backyard that we got from Wayfair about six years ago and the kids still use it Constantly. Whether you're refreshing your workspace with a new desk or making weeknight dinners a breeze with quality cookware, Wayfair literally has it all. And with free fast and hassle free delivery, even on big stuff like sofas and dining tables, there is no better time to shop, get organized, refreshed, and back into routine. For way less, head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's Wayfair. W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. So then, okay, so then we're back. I took a detour because I was really curious about why less people go south. And that makes a lot of sense because you have. You have to wait to start, but then the ending date is similar, so you just have less time. You got to scrunch it in. So you're doing okay. We're talking about trail magic.
- [21:08]
A
Yes, Trail magic. So. Yes. So. So I. I was saying that this weird subculture. So the. So this one guy that we meet, our very first trail magic, which, like I say, southbound see less. They see less trail magic because there's fewer of them. If you were a. If you were somebody who wanted to serve hikers food at a. At a road crossing or a junction of a trail, you would want to hit the largest crowd that you could. And that. That tends to be those northbounders. Now, once the northbounders start to get on in the trail, they start to separate, so they spread out a little bit. But they kind of have what they call these hiker bubbles, where there's more. More hikers together. And you experience a lot of more of those with the northbounders. So as a result, we just never ran into. Into any. Until we were kind of southern Washington. And in southern Washington, we ran into our first trail magic. And it kind of coincided with when we were starting to see the first of the northbounders cross. Cross our path. So it was kind of. They really were serving northbounders. But I pulled over and I said, I just can't believe there was. We walked up, there was a big tent. He had a big tent set up, two tents. When he was cooking in one, he had another tent and people for people to sit in. He had beer and soda and. And was cooking hamburgers, you know, grilling out, all sorts of stuff. And I said, what on earth? What compelled you to do this? And he said, honestly, we were. We were curious. We were driving in for vacation. We always go to trout lake. And we were driving in for vacation, and we saw this truck Pulled off the side of the road and a big group of dirty hikers sitting around the back of the truck. And we asked what was going on. He told us. And now my wife and I do it. It's our favorite part of our vacation. Every year, we pack up the van, we buy a bunch of food to put on the grill, and we serve hikers as they pass. So it's amazing. Amazing.
- [22:55]
B
Will you just walk up upon it or, like, you know, maybe a bit back, you start to smell hamburgers or something.
- [23:01]
A
There's. There's something about it, Jenny. So I loved it for us. I loved it for our family. I loved it for all the benefit that it could be. It was a way to force my. My. Myself and my kids into an experience together that I don't know that I could have gotten in the workaday in any other way. But what I encountered out there was these. This culture is filled with people who are in crisis moments in their life, transition moments in their life. I mean, it is. It is a. It is the biggest collection of pilgrims that are just sort of. It genuinely is questing type people who are looking, looking for something, escaping from something, rewarding themselves for a life spent working hard. And this is a bucket list thing. It's just. It's filled with such an eclectic group that I think what happens is these people who are either former hikers or just exposed to this hiking community for the first time, just get excited about being a part of it. So I think that's why it develops.
- [24:01]
B
Yeah, because it is kind of odd where you're like, you're not actually hiking, but you're just gonna go set up. But. But the amount of joy that you could bring to someone who's kind of plotting along, and it's like, you know, a lot of the same. Same as I'm walking all these miles, and then you come across someone who just has food for you, cooked food. I mean, one person had fajitas. It. The joy that they probably experience from the hikers who are coming through is, I would imagine, remarkable. And then you build all these relationships. I did notice in the book, Vince, about how by you making a decision to do this for your family, it permeated out into other people because your extended family on both sides, yours and Monica, they participated in different ways. It's like you got a brother that starts and there's a cousin. You know, they do the first eight days, but then you've got other family towards the end or in the middle, people come and meet up with you and they bring you the supplies that you need. And so I thought that was a really cool part of it, too, that I wouldn't have expected is how much it allowed other people to join in on the adventure.
- [25:09]
A
Yes.
- [25:11]
B
And even these trail magic people, like they call themselves trail angels, you know, they're able to connect. Even for someone who's not doing the through hike, they're able to connect in all of these different ways. And I thought that was a really special part of it. So can you talk about, then, the actual walking? Your goal is 14 miles a day. You know, I. They talk about the 10,000 step thing. That's about four miles. So 14 miles is a lot of miles a day. You build in some rest days here and there, but because you were a southbounder and didn't totally understand all of these components of the timing, you had to increase to 26 miles a day. I mean, I would imagine that there's people that would think, how does. How can the human body even do that? Yes, because you did it. But. But, you know, did you have to work? I mean, obviously you're working up to it to a degree because you were doing 14 miles. But, I mean, how does your body feel?
- [26:15]
A
You feel. For the first three weeks, you feel broken every night. You think, I can't wake up and do this again. This is way too hard. And then after three weeks, there's something that's just weird and miraculous that happens. You don't feel like you don't hurt less. I mean, you hurt a little bit less. You're more accustomed to those kinds of pains. But the weird thing is that you just wake up in the morning and you're like, I'm ready to go. I didn't. You sleep better. You sleep faster. I say sleep faster. I can sleep with less hours and feel totally revived. And we accommodated our schedule a little bit to it as well. We would start, we'd walk with first light, and we'd take a long lunch, and then we would walk till dark. What you find is that long lunch is a great recovery time, a surprisingly good recovery time. And the truth is that 26 miles seems like a. An endless. It seems so far, but when you. When you have a lot of light, it's not. It's not that far if you can keep walking. So after about three weeks, you just think, I was born to walk. Like, humans were made for this. And you really do get to experience that. And it was fun to watch the kids get to experience that too. I think at some point I probably mentioned this in the book, but there was a conversation that Georgie had with a. A lady who was doing a. A little section hike, and she said, I can't believe I would mutiny. I can't believe you're. You let your parents drag you out for this. And Georgie said. Georgie said, well, they have to do it too, you know, so there was a real sense of, like, this shared suffering that we were all engaged in.
- [27:48]
B
So. Interesting. Wow. So. And you did talk about that. Like, you said that walking is a human activity and that even like a horse might not be able to do for that extended of a period of time, like, it just is. The human activity is walking. My dad walks about 20,000 steps a day, and it's pretty remarkable. Like, I mean, that's obviously not 26 miles, but I think remarkable in like, the sort of normal day and age. And he has sort of a similar pace as a similar way that he keeps track of it. Like, if. If he were to explain what he does, he says, I walk 10,000 steps by breakfast, 15,000 by lunch, and then 20,000 by dinner. And then anything after dinner is bon. And so that's sort of a similar thing. You're like, you know, we get up, we walk so much by lunch, you say, if we can make 15 miles before lunch, then the 25 miles comes easy, and then you're not having to walk into the dark. But occasionally you did walk in the dark.
- [28:50]
A
Yes.
- [28:51]
B
What was that like?
- [28:54]
A
It was fine for my son and I. We quite enjoyed it, and a couple of the girls kind of liked it. Okay. My wife did not very much. So. Our walking in the dark rarely last. Lasted longer than an hour and an hour and a half. Is.
- [29:05]
B
She falls more.
- [29:08]
A
She's a little clunkier. Yes. She's. She's a little less aware of her walking, and that probably has as much to do with it. I do think she gets nervous about animals at night, things like that. But we really. We really enjoyed it. My son and I really enjoyed it, walking at night. But the need for getting the mileage that we were needing to make it, you know, we're just. It's. It's really interesting because the whole. I talked to a few friends since then who walked southbound that year, and there was just a real anxiety about getting through the Sierra on time. And everybody just kind of fed through that whole hiker class. And it may be common among southbounders every time on the pct. It just was. It was definitely in the. In the water that year. And so we all Sort of had that sense of wanting to press. But as you go, you know, July, you're fine because the hours are as long as they can be. But as you start to get, you know, get further south, the days get shorter and shorter. And so we would have to walk, I would say, not more than an hour to an hour and a half at night, with the exception of one or two times where we walked really late to meet a goal. So. But I enjoyed it. I mean, the stars are incredible. Walking at night and sometimes you don't even need a flashlight. You can just walk and see enough, almost intuit the trail. Like it's really amazing.
- [30:22]
B
And almost sometimes the flashlight. We've had just a couple things where we've done just local stuff and they say to not have your flashlight because your eyes adjust and if there's enough light then you can see where you're going. But you were talking about how sometimes if the sun goes down at 6:30, you know. Yeah, you're going to go till 7:30 or go till 8 and you're in the dark. So that's an interesting experience. And you talked about how you did 10 miles further than everybody else because you had to go back and get the GoPro.
- [30:49]
A
Yes, I did. And I would have left the GoPro. It was the SD card and the GoPro that I had to have.
- [30:56]
B
And you said it was really interesting that you don't really have any footage of the most intense moments.
- [31:00]
A
That's right.
- [31:01]
B
And that would make sense, I guess, unless you had it like on your hat or something because, you know, you're really concentrated. So. Yeah, super interesting. So you go 10 miles further than everybody else. One of the things that was interesting to me was that, you know, in the, in the context of having a family out there for kids and you know, you've got, you got four kids. Like everybody shares DNA and genetics, obviously, unless they're an adopted child. But you know, in your case, you've got these four kids and they're very different in terms of their capacity, in terms of their. Just their bodies. And it didn't. Being on the trail for five minutes, months, didn't really change it. You know, you talked about how Aiden and George. No, who know Aiden and Henry. Is it Aiden and Henry who felt like they could have gone 30 miles a day? And then you've got June who's in the. Between them, who just really struggled with the walking and the big hills and things like that. How did you accommodate that as a father with different people's ability Levels and their sort of outlook on it.
- [32:06]
A
Yeah, it's good. It's a good question. Probably the most significant question that I had ongoing or the most significant observation I was trying to make along the way was, when is pain, real pain? When is pain? When is an injury, Real injury? You know, and they communicate those things very differently. June's injuries were often related to the steepness of the terrain. Like, she would have a groin injury if it was a steep hill and she didn't want to climb. Henry would never say if he was hurting. And so you had to be far more in tune to Henry because he wouldn't tell you till it was too late. And June. And June, you would have to sometimes say, listen, this is not an injury that's going to keep you from going. You just have to go. So that's probably one of the more complicated questions. And they're motivated differently. Henry and Aiden in particular, just related to the speed or their ability in terms of the speed. I would walk with June in the back, and I would stay with her and encourage her. I'd give her space enough when she needed it, but I would stay with her. And that was. That was a helpful way to deal with her. With Aiden and Henry, we, as we grew more comfortable on the trail, we would say, see you guys at lunch. You know, here's a, here's a target. And get, get there. Enjoy yourself, Take a nap, take a swim. We'll be there when we're there. And I would have probably allowed them to go to town early, like leave and spend the night by themselves and. And be at a town waiting for us. I don't. I don't know that I could have talked my wife into that, but I think I would have felt comfortable with it. They were certainly competent enough to do that.
- [33:45]
B
What an interesting thing. And you, I guess you would assume like I would assume even if this child, you know, had a little bit of a harder start, they would all eventually end up at the same spot in terms of their capacity. But that's not true. It's like, you know, the one child that struggled, struggled the most the whole time, and the ones that didn't find it quite as hard were just fine the whole time, too. So that's an interesting thing to think about. You know, you're like, one kid is a plotter, you know, and the other ones could go longer, they could go.
- [34:15]
A
Further if they got impatient. If Henry Naden got impatient, I would just say guys were only as fast as our slowest. Like, the more you the more you encourage her, the better she'll be. You know, don't be against her because she's slower. Like that's, that's as good as she can go. And she's running in the red the whole time. So I had a lot of compassion for her as a participant and a lot of appreciation. And I've been, in fact, over the years, I've grown and grown in my appreciation of the sacrifice. I mean, it really was a sacrifice that you made for the whole family to accomplish that.
- [34:47]
B
Yeah, it's true. It's really interesting. So then you talk about things you miss. I think that would be something that people would be wondering about. You know, this is a five month commitment and they're missing soccer, they're missing vacation with the cousins, they're missing horseback riding lessons, they're celebrating their birthday on the trail and getting a phone call from grandma. And that's it. There's no birthday party. Was that hard for you? Was it hard for anyone? Time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. If you're like me, you probably have life insurance, but do you actually know how much you're paying for it or, or how much coverage you're getting? Odds are you might be paying too much for too little. And here's something not many people realize. If you only have life insurance through your job and you're suddenly laid off, you could be left with nothing. That's why I'm heading to select quote. For over 40 years, Select Quote has helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. They're not a one size fits all company. They work for you in just 15 minutes. Their licensed agents compare top rated policies tailored to your health and your budget. And they do it for free. You can even get up to $2 million in same day coverage with no medical exam. And if you have pre existing conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, Select Quote partners with companies that can help. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours fall is about to be in full swing. And because it's already starting to get a little chilly in the mornings and evenings, I've been slowly but surely refreshing my wardrobe with pieces that actually work. Things I'll wear on repeat not just once. That's where Quince comes in. They make it easy to stay warm, look polished and save money, all without sacrificing quality. Speaking of chillier temps, I'm absolutely loving the Mongolian cashmere gloves I recently got because my hands seem to always be cold and I can easily toss them in my purse or backpack just in case the weather changes quickly. I've also been eyeing their wool coats. They look totally designer but cost a fraction of the price and they're 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They start at just $50 and are incredibly soft. What makes Quince different is how smart their model is. They partner directly with ethical top tier factories and cut out the middlemen so you get luxury quality clothing at half the price of similar brands. It's a wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. Honestly, I've even been browsing their bedding and travel bags lately. Quince is turning into a one stop shop around here. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside.
- [37:37]
A
This Labor Day at Lowe's shop. Member only Door buster deals for a limited time. Save $50 on an ego string trimmer now 16069 plus get 50% off select Holland pavers. Not a rewards member. Sign up for free today but hurry. Labor Day doorbuster deals won't last long. Lowe's we help you Save valid through 9:1 while supplies last program subject to terms and conditions. Details@lowe's.com Terms subject to change I would say yes and no a little bit. Probably more so for the kids than for me. But I think in general at a point, and I think it happened fairly early, I think it happened after about 300 miles. There was a sense of buy in with everybody like, like Mexico. It was always just sort of this like this goal that was hanging out there of Mexico. And even Henry, who liked to pretend that he would quit any day, I think had that sense in him like, like this is a worthy goal. This is an objective that we really can point our nose toward. And I think it really did wake us up in the morning and get us past those hard moments. Now I did try. I mean I didn't, I didn't orchestrate at all, but I did try to let those things be surprises. Often when people would be coming near a trail and they were spaced out well enough that I think it reattached us to home in a good and a healthy way. So it was good.
- [38:58]
B
That's a really interesting thing to. To take that leap and to step out of sort of the norm. The norm things of life like lessons and school and vacation with cousins and miss some of those things for the sake of doing something else. But obviously you felt like it was worth it enough because you've done some other ones since, which I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that you've gone on to do. To do more of the. Through hikes. One of the things that you talked about was. I thought this was a really big deal, Vince. Like when you talk about childhood growth. And one of the things we talk about often is so much of it's measured and we've got the GPA and we've got the test scores and that the skills of today and tomorrow, really the big important ones, cannot be measured. Well, like empathy and resilience and things like that. And so one of the things that you talked about was that your range had widened, your range of comfort. You said, I'm comfortable walking in my shorts now in 35 degrees. Now, you're from Florida, so that's a really big idea. I really big deal. Comfortable walking in my shorts now in 35 degrees. Even less if the sun is out. Your range of comfort has widened. Can you talk about those immeasurable benefits that come from doing a big, hard adventure like this?
- [40:19]
A
Yeah, I. I don't know how. I don't. It's hard to describe. It is exactly that. It is. Oh, I didn't know. I didn't know the human could walk 26 miles. I didn't know we could walk up to 30 miles. I didn't know that I could feel comfortable out here. I mean, when I get home. Let me say it this way, because I. It's not exactly the same thing that you're asking, but it struck me when we would get to within about five miles of a town, which is, you know, two and a half hours. We're two and a half hours from town. I would think, oh, my gosh, we're so close. I would feel like we were so close. So my. My. The relationship to time had shifted so significantly. We got home that very, you know, that. That that year, and in the spring, I woke up one Saturday morning and I was complaining about driving to Jacksonville from Lakeland, which is two and a half hours, and I thought, what. What is that? What? Why. Why does my relationship to time shift so significantly? And it really did. And you can almost extrapolate that to an innumerable amount of things that you wouldn't expect it to touch. You know, my relationship to time, to temperature, to sleep, to all those things, changes and shifts in really unique ways. And it feels more. It feels more in tune with design to me, for sure. There's something about that that just feels in tune with design. And I think what's so impressive about what your offering people and encouraging people to do is that you're offering a way to do that within the normal of life, which I think is a fabulous thing. I think I would have been a lost cause for you because I think I needed a big rip, a big band aid rip. You know, I was. I liked being on the couch and watching TV and doing all that. I just need. But I knew I was missing it. I knew I was missing something with my kids, and it was going to be a big thing lost. And I couldn't figure out how to get it done within the normal context, so.
- [42:26]
B
And you had some other life circumstances, which I thought was interesting. Like you had some business things that went south and, you know, or hard, hard business things. And so you're in this spot for a while where you couldn't spend a lot of money on vacation, so you're doing these cheaper things like hiking, and then, you know, you're able to pay off these different accounts. And this is almost like a celebration of that, which I think is a really cool thing too. Like, gosh, we don't celebrate things. I thought that was a wonderful thing and really a good lesson to teach your kids of. We have done something that we really were hoping to do and we did the right thing. And now, you know, we're going to commemorate that by doing this really big adventure and making these memories. So that's a. You know, I think on both ends, it's like if you're ripping off the band aid and you need to really have a big life change, or if you're trying to commemorate something that's really hard, that you've accomplished, that you're really proud of, those are a lot of reasons to do something bigger like this. You know, it's interesting you talked about the. Because I did have this question about the two and a half hours. You're like, oh, gosh, it seemed like this, and now it seems like this, that these changes that occur. Like, for example, you're like, gosh, I used to. If I'd wake up in the night, I'd watch YouTube videos, you know, I'm like, I'm. I'm up. I'm gonna watch YouTube video and go back to bed. Now you're out in the middle of nowhere. You have no signal. You don't have downloaded video, so you can't do that. Is it hard to keep the changes that you want once you reassimilate back into your daily life?
- [43:54]
A
I would say for me, yes, definitely. I think the kids did a better job of it than I did. I found myself a little bit aimless. There were things about my life before I went that I think I invited chaos. I would say I was a supervisor of construction and had a lot of homes going at the same time. A lot of variables, a lot of balls in the air to juggle, and I think I thrived off of that. Something in my personality really attached to that. Well, when we went on the hikes and I came back, I really longed for simple. I longed for clean along, for clarity. And I really rejected a lot of the things that I had done before. Very, very naturally and comfortably. In fact, I felt. I mean, I slowed down. I would say, I suppose that I could do it again, but I didn't want to. I knew that. And so I actually changed my business entirely. I went from building custom homes to now I build docks and seawalls. So I went from, I don't know, 30 or 40 subcontractors on a project to now I have five employees and three suppliers. So my life is much simpler now than it was before.
- [45:04]
B
Wow. Well, that's an answer to the question then the changes did occur. They did last because you changed the way this, changed the way that you were actually living your life. Did you expect that?
- [45:16]
A
No, I would not have expected that. I. In fact, I would say that I went. This is one of the things that I think I. When people do ask, and occasionally they do, you know what. What was so special about it? What I think of is I would have gone in saying, I'm doing this for the good of my kids so that they can grow. I probably would have said that. I probably would have seen it that way. And what I would say now, and my answer to that question would ultimately be, I think the key. I think the real key is putting yourself in the way of an adventure with your kids that is also an adventure for you. I had every bit of the anxiety that they did, every bit of the nervousness about winter, about Mexico, about food resupply, about shoes, getting there on time, about whether or not we could actually do it. Like all those things I mean, we just shared all of that together. And I think something about that was really where the profound familial experience or family experience took place somewhere inside of that experience.
- [46:19]
B
And then you talk about how growth comes from suffering. And it's pretty interesting that you would switch your, the way that you're doing your career because in some ways there is like the trail is a lot of suffering. You talk about the mosquitoes, you talk about crossing over these lava spots where people's shoes are melting off. You know, it's cold, it, you know, you're talking about shin splints. And there was another, there was a lot of physical things. There was shin splints and something else.
- [46:47]
A
Plantar fasciitis plan.
- [46:49]
B
Oh my gosh, I cannot even believe that you walked that far with plantar fasciitis. Monica's feet have never quit hurting. Never. And then, you know, someone had the flu, someone, you know, you got the fever. Like you, you don't actually think about that. Well, what if someone gets sick out there and you're on this timeframe and what are you going to do? And you're in the middle of nowhere. But you say growth comes from suffering. And so there's that clear suffering, right? Like on a trail and there's this clear suffering of my body. But then in some ways there is this suffering that maybe we wouldn't know is really suffering or we wouldn't talk about it, which is like that too high paced of a. And so this allows you to grow in a way that reduces your suffering back at home because you switch, you switch your career model. So that's really interesting. So okay, you have all this suffering. You say growth comes from suffering. And one of the things, there's like a short sentence in the book, but it's this, soon we will be cozy and dry. And this woman, Linda McGurk, who has a book called there's no Such Thing as Bad Weather, she talks about how you can't really have as high a level of enjoyment if you don't have like nothing feels better than putting on dry clothes after you've been cold and wet. Like, or, you know, there's nothing like coming inside after you've been out in the snow. Now I mean, obviously you wouldn't have had those experiences down in Lakeland. But like you're, you know, you're hiking in the snow and you find a cabin and you get to go in and there's. You build a fire. It doesn't feel as good if you don't have the suffering part of it. So can you talk about even just the coming home when it's over, having those experiences of, like, sleeping on the ground? Does it make the everyday life feel a little bit better than maybe it would have when you were just used to it?
- [48:44]
A
I can certainly answer that way. The thing that I was thinking about as you were asking the question was that if you approached any of my kids, any of them, and you said, hey, tell us about your experience on the Pacific Crest Trail. What was that like? Almost without exception, the first story they would tell you is about being caught in a winter storm in the Sierra, almost without exception. And that was a day and a half of rain, a day of blizzard and snow, and two nights of really freezing and uncomfortable weather, both of which actually Georgie. Aiden pulled Georgie into her sleeping bag to keep her warm. So it was that kind of an experience. And then the following day, walking down toward a pass, deciding, are we going to stay in? Are we going to go out? And just watching the clouds sort of like threatened to come over. All day. It just stayed dried long, dry long enough to get everything dried out. And so that's what. What I tend to think of. But even so, I was making. I was trying to put together some YouTube videos. I just. There's so much about this experience I wanted for my kids to have a memory of. And even though I was not a great documentarian in terms of collecting videos and all that stuff, I just wanted to put something together. And the last one that I made about finishing the trail, we make it to the monument, and I put all that footage in there. And then I thought, okay, that's it. I'm done. And then I thought, you know, that really isn't it, because after that, we piled in a car and drove to. Drove through Colorado on the way home, and we were with our cousins. And that was really. When it really felt magical, was just that. Oh, like we really felt kind of reunited in a. In a good way. And past all of that, the difficulty of that adventure that was more of the finish, was getting to be with cousins in Colorado.
- [50:36]
B
Yeah. So the point is, is like the reuniting has a higher pinnacle.
- [50:41]
A
That's right.
- [50:41]
B
Than spending time with the cousins on a regular vacation. There's just a higher pinnacle when you have that lower low. When you've dealt with the mosquitoes for however many days and you finally get out of it. That's a higher high than if you would have done none of it.
- [50:56]
A
That's. That's holding you. You. You were Spending every day of your life holding something almost magical in your hands, with the presence of family and comfort and warmth and a fire. And you. You had something magical. You just didn't recognize it, you know. And so it takes that experience to sort of contrast, you know, it takes that deprivation to really appreciate that, that resolve. I get behind that.
- [51:25]
B
Yeah, soon it will be cozy and dry, and what an experience it is to be cozy and dry when you've been out in these elements. So what people had said was, the trail is a good teacher, the best of teachers. What they'll gain here will be more than they would ever gain in a classroom. Even just this time away from phones and screens alone will be worth it. They're going to see things, wonderful things. This will be so good for them. So if someone's listening this. But the book and the conversation just opened your eyes to what's out there and what you could try. You could try something on a smaller scale, but the concept of the. Through hike and. And having these dreams and learning that other families have done it, it might spark something in you. And you can check out the book. It's called Pretty Good at Walking, which I love. It comes from, you know, people are like, well, what'd you learn? You know, like, it's such a massive question. Like, what a question to ask someone who's hiked from Canada to Mexico with four kids over 2600 miles. What'd you learn? You know, I get such a broad question, and so I love the answer of I'm pretty good at walking. You know, it's just, you know, if it's. Especially if it's like a short conversation, it's like such an impossible question to answer if you learned a million things. So I really, really appreciate you sending me my favorite book of 2025. So thanks for that, Vince. People can check that out and follow along on your adventures because obviously you've done more hikes to since and you're putting out different information. I'll make sure. I'll put the links in the show notes. We always end our show with the same question. And the question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
- [53:01]
A
I loved it that my dad used to put me on the tractor and say, go mother orange grove across town. And I was 13 or 14, and I got to be on the highway crossing town on a tractor, and I just felt like I was on top of the world. And that was my job all day. I'd leave in the morning, and I'd come Back at night, having mowed in.
- [53:24]
B
Orange grove all day isn't that powerful because your dad believed in you. And then you've done the same with your kids. You believed in them that they could walk 2600 miles. I can't imagine what that would do for your soul. Obviously, all of the experiences that you've had, but, like, even that deep knowing that, oh, you know, my parents thought me capable enough to do this adventure that hardly anyone does. And we did it as kids. Wow.
- [53:52]
A
When I started writing the book, I thought the central moment of the book would be a moment where Georgie, you know, makes a comment that I think is significant and was significant. But as I wrote the book more and, you know, got further and further in it, I realized this is really June. Like, this is more June's story than anybody's. And June of all of them will reflect on the trails with very practical application for her life. She'll say, you know, I always quit 90% of the way done with a hill. That's what I do. I always quit 90% of the way done. All I gotta do is make it 10 more percent. And so she. She has these very practical reminders for her daily life that she draws from that experience to get through.
- [54:41]
B
Yeah. More than you could ever learn in a classroom. Did you journal?
- [54:45]
A
I didn't. I didn't on that trail. I just took videos.
- [54:49]
B
So the videos are what made it so that you could be like, at mile 600. This is what happened there.
- [54:55]
A
It did. I would run a little clip and I'd remember all the things that happened around that. And then I would ask the kids. I mean, you can tell. Like, when I first finished the book, I ran it through a. I ran it through a test program and it said that I had 65% dialogue. And I realized that might be a little heavy on the dialog. We might need a little more descriptive voice. But I really wanted to make it as I wanted it to make it their book. And I couldn't figure out how to do it. And then within a first, I was surprised to find that a first person narrative was, for me, the way to go. And then all I had to do is just get out of the way and let them talk. And it really was fun to try to do it that way and to just be descriptive, you know, not to insert my opinion as much, just to kind of get out of the way and say, what did they say there? How would they have said that? And that was easy because then I could say, hey, June, does this sound like you and she'd say no, I wouldn't talk like that, you know, so.
- [55:52]
B
I like that too because you know how often we go on adventures and don't really go back through our footage. So that's a really cool thing that, that forces you to go back through the trip in the footage to figure out what we did on the different days. It's almost like video journaling. So what an experience. Wow. I loved it. It's called Pretty Good at Walking. Vince, thank you for writing the book and thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much.
- [56:13]
A
I really, I really do appreciate that you read it. I was, I was very excited to hear that you, thank you so much for reading it and having me on. Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to outdo your holidaying, your hammocking and your pooling. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.