1KHO 569: The Words That Build a Child | Amy Hughes, Words Like Honey

Summary

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 569: The Words That Build a Child | Amy Hughes, Words Like Honey
Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Ginny Yurich
Guest: Amy Hughes ("simple little Amy" on Instagram), author of Words Like Honey

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Overview

This episode centers on the profound impact that parents' words have on their children. Host Ginny Yurich is joined by Amy Hughes to discuss Amy's new book, Words Like Honey: How to Avoid Unintentional Harm, Model Kindness, and Nurture Your Child’s Faith Through What You Say. The conversation explores practical strategies and real-life stories about breaking negative patterns, communicating intentionally, apologizing effectively, and supporting children’s emotional and spiritual development through thoughtful language.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of "Words Like Honey"

• Journey to the book: Amy shares how her project evolved from a chapter in another book to a full exploration of the significance of words within families.

  “It just kept growing. It needed more substance than one chapter. And I think that’s because it’s something I need.” — Amy [02:05]

• Personal Motivation: Amy’s own struggles with word choice inspired her to examine common phrases and the hidden impact they can have on children.

The Impact of Words in Childhood

• Parental language shapes understanding: Many phrases we inherit from our own upbringing may be casually repeated without thought, but can profoundly affect how children view themselves and the world.

  “We’re not taking into consideration things like child development and neuroscience... while [these are] simple and nonchalant to us, to our kids, they’re making an impact.” — Amy [07:40]

• Children misinterpret jokes or casual statements: Amy shares a memorable family story where an offhand joke from her husband about “stealing cream” was taken literally for years by her daughter, illustrating just how concrete a child’s understanding can be.

  “She lived, like, seven years of her life thinking this...It really opened my eyes to how kids understand things.” — Amy [10:19]

Breaking Unhelpful Patterns

• Inherited phrases: Discussing how we reflexively repeat parental responses we disliked as children.

  “My mom, every time I would ask her what was for dinner, she would say, ‘food’...I became a mom, and the first time I was asked...it just came right out.” — Amy [13:40]

• Intentional self-awareness: Moving away from autopilot responses by rethinking familiar patterns, especially ones we disliked as kids.

Words in Parenting: Strategies and Alternatives

1. Threats and Ultimatums

• Why to avoid:

  “If our goal in parenting is really to connect with our kids and nurture them...then threats and ultimatums don’t really do that. It just teaches them to obey because they’re afraid.” — Amy [15:19]

• Alternatives:
  • “Order the environment” instead of ordering the child; create stable, predictable rhythms that naturally reduce the need for commands.
  • Use routines and “pressure release valves” to preempt conflict (e.g. calming practices before stressful transitions). — Amy [17:50]

2. Saying Less

• Power of meaningful words:

  “When we say less, our words mean more.” — Amy, quoting Kim John Payne [25:15]

• Over-explaining: Recognizing when to refrain from giving all the answers, allowing children to develop problem-solving skills.

• Asking questions instead of providing solutions:

  [Example of her son figuring out the wheelbarrow for moving firewood after being prompted by a question.] [26:50]

• Teens and older kids: Clarify whether kids want advice or simply need to be heard.

  “Are you looking for advice or you just looking for someone to listen?” — Amy [30:02]

3. Rationalizing and Repairing

• Avoid rationalizing mistakes: Acknowledge and apologize directly, resisting the urge to justify harmful words or actions.

  “Rationalizing is another form of saying too much...it’s making excuses when we should simply be saying I’m sorry.” — Ginny [36:48]

• Modeling humility: Show children that everyone stumbles, but owning mistakes builds trust and teaches by example.

  “A hypocrite is someone who teaches something...and they don’t even try. They don’t even care. That’s hypocrisy.” — Amy [37:02]

4. What Not to Say

• “Be careful!” without context: Can increase anxiety or cause confusion; instead, give specific guidance relevant to the situation.

  “Without context it just kind of creates fear in a child...If we can reduce that phrase on its own and just kind of provide context, we can actually help with their critical thinking skills.” — Amy [42:07]

• “Calm down!”: Almost never effective and is dismissive of real emotions.

  “It just makes it worse. It does nothing. It just causes them to panic...Calm down is very dismissive...” — Amy [45:09]

• Instead: Offer a physical connection or designated “time in” spot—a cozy, calming place for children to process emotions with your quiet presence. [46:18]

5. Getting to the Root Emotion

• Children may express sadness as anger or other behaviors; active listening and creative outlets (like drawing feelings when words fail) help uncover true emotions.

  [Story of Amy’s daughter expressing sadness by acting out; drawing revealed the deeper sense of exclusion.] [48:33]

6. The 5-to-1 Ratio

• For every negative comment, aim for five positive or affirming statements.

  “If we want to counteract that message, then we need to be intentional about saying more life giving and positive and kind things...” — Amy [51:32]

• Practical idea: set reminders to intentionally offer affirming words to children multiple times a day. [53:06]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On inherited language:

  “I don’t want to be the one to say that. Yeah. So many different things...They just come right out of us.” — Amy [14:04]

• On apologizing:

  “There are many parents out there who refuse to apologize to their kids...When you apologize, you’re role modeling how to apologize.” — Ginny [38:09]

• On letting go in parenting:

  “Letting go is like, you know, tearing out a little bit of your heart. It really is.” — Amy [55:24]

• On family rhythms:

  “Where well established rhythms exist, there's less parental verbiage. You don’t have to say as much. You don’t have to cajole as much.” — Ginny quoting Simplicity Parenting, [21:00]

• On time-in spaces:

  “It’s cozy blankets and pillows and there’s books and drawing things...You can take a worked up child over there, give them hugs if they will accept them at the time, or just sit with them, just be there.” — Amy [46:50]

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Letting Go: Parenting Through Transitions

• A dance of autonomy and togetherness: As children grow, parents must adapt, offering increasing autonomy while maintaining connection and trust.

  “You’ve got to do that with them. Give them autonomy while they're with you so that you can help them make the right decisions and think through things a little bit.” — Amy [58:32]

• Adapting family routines as kids grow older: How spontaneous adventures and outings shift as children have jobs, responsibilities, and independence.

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Final Reflections

Favorite Outdoor Childhood Memory
Amy’s favorite was camping with her dad, singing by the fire—a memory tied to her love of music, which also inspired her to include a special song and playlist for each person in the acknowledgments of her book. [61:05]

Playlist Bonus:
A QR code in the book links directly to this personalized playlist for an added touch.

Closing Thought:
Amy’s book, Words Like Honey, is lauded as practical, heartfelt, and essential for any parent, full of real examples and gentle guidance about how intentional language can foster kindness and connection.

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:36 — Amy's writing process and reasons for focusing on words
• 07:40 — How parental language impacts child development
• 09:12 — Story: When a joke is misunderstood by a child
• 13:40 — Repeating parental phrases unconsciously
• 15:19 — Discussion on threats, ultimatums, and ordering the environment
• 25:15 — The value of saying less (“When we say less, our words mean more”)
• 30:02 — Asking children if they want advice or simply to be heard
• 36:48 — Dangers of rationalizing mistakes versus apologizing
• 42:07 — Why “be careful” and “calm down” are problematic without context
• 46:18 — Creating a “time in” spot for emotional regulation
• 51:32 — The 5-to-1 positive-to-negative comment ratio
• 55:24 — Letting go as children approach adulthood
• 61:05 — Amy’s favorite outdoor childhood memory

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Takeaways

• Intentional words matter: The language adults use with children leaves an imprint—choose words that heal rather than wound.
• Replace autopilot phrases with thoughtful responses: Challenge family traditions that don’t align with your values.
• Less is often more: Allow space for kids to think, problem-solve, and ask for help before intervening.
• Role model humility: Apologizing is powerful; avoid rationalizing or minimizing mistakes.
• Be specific and supportive: Vague warnings and dismissals rarely help—provide helpful context and be present during big emotions.
• Build positivity into your routine: Affirm children often and notice their good choices, not just their mistakes.
• Parenting is a dance: Adapt as children grow, maintaining both boundaries and trust.

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Book Mentioned:
Words Like Honey: How to Avoid Unintentional Harm, Model Kindness and Nurture Your Child’s Faith Through What You Say by Amy Hughes

Contact/Amy’s Handle:
Instagram @simplelittleamy

Listener Challenge:
Reflect on your own word habits and try out the 5:1 ratio of positive to negative feedback with your children this week. Consider setting up a “time in” spot.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Oh, thank you so much, Ginny. I'm so excited.

[A]

Okay, so this has been a process. I think you and I have been talking about this for quite a while.

[B]

We have.

[A]

And you've. You've had the intention of putting a book out in the world talking about some different ideas. I feel like what you landed on actually is a needed idea and also one that I haven't read too much about. And it's about the words that we use in our home to our children. It's called words like honey and how to avoid unintentional harm. Model kindness and Nurture your child's faith through what you say. Now, I know you and I have had some conversations over the past couple years, but how did you end up landing here?

[B]

So, yeah, it's actually really been a process, hasn't it? I started writing one book, and then that transformed into a different book because that first book was kind of just too niche, so I started writing something else. And then this happened to be like a chapter in the second book I was writing, and I was kind of writing about it, and the idea just kept. It just kept growing and growing. It needed more. More substance than one chapter. And I think that's because it's something I need. Like, I am not very intentional with my words. I just talk, talk, talk, talk. I will say the weirdest things and cut people off and just. It's, you know, it's not great. So it's a message I needed. And so it kept growing and became this thing that I realized, you know, if I really need to hear this, there's a good chance that other people do, too.

[A]

Yeah. So what a process. This is the one you landed on. It's a gorgeous book. It's just so beautiful. It's, like, filled with wildflowers on the COVID You and I have adventured together. So you took me out on an adventure in California. I'm not going to remember where we were. Where were we?

[B]

We were. Okay, so we went from Morro Bay up the coast to San Simeon or Cambria. San Simeon. And then up to Ragged Point, up. Which is near Big Sur.

[A]

It was incredible. We saw seals.

[B]

Yeah, the elephant seals.

[A]

The elephant seals. And we saw squirrels that were, like, eating right in front of us. There was that part. And we found sand dollars. And we did tide pools.

[B]

Yeah, we did all of it.

[A]

It was amazing adventure.

[B]

One of my favorite stories, Ginny, is when you and Viv were. We walked onto the sand on Morrow in Morro Bay, and you saw the sand dollars and you just started. It was so. Ginny, you were like, oh, my gosh. So excited. And so now I have this thing that I do when we're out in, like, out at the beach or we're out in nature. And I'll say to my kids, because I had some of my kids with me, I'll be like, you guys, what would Ginny do here? She would be so excited.

[A]

I was really excited about those sand dollars. And there were so many of them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we collected them like home. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was incredible. And when we did the tide pooling, we found. It was so beautiful. We found this huge orange. I don't know if you would consider it huge. I'd never seen one in the wild. Starfish.

[B]

Yep. It was awesome. And it was big. That was a big one.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so give us a bit of your story. You have a lot of kids.

[B]

I do.

[A]

You live in California, you homeschool. And this is a part of your story leading up into thinking about the words that we speak in our family. Give us a little bit of your background.

[B]

Yeah, so I was raised right here on the coast of California by my mom and my stepdad. And then I would travel and visit my dad and my stepmom. They lived in Sacramento, so they're about five hours away. And I, you know, I was just, I went to school, I, I had a very, a big family, but it was all broken. You know, there's step siblings and half siblings and whole siblings and yeah, we had. I, I feel like I had a good childhood. I actually loved school. I was going to be a movie star and you're in the right state for it. Yeah. And then I ended up, you know, when I, when I met my husband, he was a single dad, he was young. His son was born when he was 15 years old. So when we got married, which was actually just four months after we met, I had a built in son like this.

[A]

It's like your story really diverged. Like I had this, you know, relatively normal childhood. You know, I've got these step siblings and I'm going to visit and got all that. But you're like, I went to school, I like school. I, I'm doing acting like all this kind of like traditional type things and then all of a sudden you're like, and now I'm 19 and I'm a mom with a six year old and I married my husband after four months and now I have a ton of kids and I'm a writer and I homeschool.

[B]

Yeah, Life just, you know, is life and I just really, you know, things change the way that I, the things that I wanted changed, you know, I had new desires and new hopes and I, you know, for me I became a Christian and it was just different. Things became important to me and so I married my husband, became a built in mom and we just went from there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Now we have nine kids.

[A]

Nine kids, three are adults. You're homeschooling your youngest six in California. And now you have this book out called Words Like Honey about how we speak in our family. And you, you have a lot of really specific things in the book that are helpful. Like you go through specific situations, like how do you deal with threats and ultimatums? What could be some alternatives there? Comparison and shame. Rationalizing, saying too much empathy. How do we teach empathy? What are some things not to say, how to repair when things have gone wrong? What are some, like, cliche, Christian things that people say that they probably shouldn't say? So all these different, specific things. But you really kick it off with talking about how words can affect kids more than we might realize. And. And I can imagine that in a home with nine kids, it would be easier to pop off and to say, whatever. It's loud, you're frustrated. You can't get your point across. Can you talk about what we need to know in terms of how stray words affect young kids?

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's funny because obviously we all know there are things that we shouldn't say, and we try not to say those things, but there are the things that we don't really consider because they're. The things that are. Are common. They just. They were always said to us. We've always said them. Everyone else says them. And those things we don't really think about. And when we say them, we are kind of just assuming our kids are understanding from our perspective. But the thing is, we're not taking into consideration things like child development and neuroscience and all of these things that actually impact where the child is developmentally, what they understand, how they understand things. And so we're not quite realizing a lot of the time that these words and these phrases and just these ways of talking are. While they're so, like, simple and nonchalant to us, to our kids, they're making an impact. And oftentimes it's not the right impact that we, you know, that we want to be making. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you told a really good story. I feel like that illustrated it, where you're like, I got this super honest husband, and, you know, one day one of your daughters is like, yeah, dad stole something once. And you're like, no, I don't think he did. Like, he's really not the type to steal. And she's like, yeah, like, he did. He told me about it. Can you tell that story? Because to your point, it's like, you know, we joke around about things, but you never know how your kid's going to take it.

[B]

Right? Yeah. So I. I think my daughter was about 13, and we were reading Robin Hood, and we're talking about, you know, stealing. And is it ever okay to steal? Right. Because that's kind of the thing of Robin Hood is he's stealing from the rich. So is there ever a time when it's okay to steal? And my Daughter. So again, she's 13. She goes, well, I mean, dad did steal that cream one time. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He did not. Like, my husband is super honest. Like, he has been known to go. He'll go back in the store if he realizes that something. Yeah, He. He will go back in and he'll be like, I didn't. I didn't pay for this. They forgot to ring this up. So he'll go and he'll pay. So he's like, there's no way. He's still. I'm like, what are you talking about? So she starts telling me about back when we lived in Washington, and we lived in Washington when she was six, which means that this was like seven years later, right? She's. Whatever. She's thinking about her dad.

[A]

Stealing has been half her life, right?

[B]

So I'm like, what? She's like, well, he went to the store and grandma was watching us, and he came home, and Grandma said, oh, where did you find that? And he said, oh, I stole it. Okay. Because my husband, he's. He's a joker. He is very funny. Everything he says, you know, he's always telling jokes. But at her age, at six, she didn't catch that. That was a joke. She didn't take that in that way. And so she thought, oh, he stole that. Well, my dad's a really good man. My dad is really honest. He stole something once. So, yeah, there's. It's okay to steal things sometimes. And she lived, like, seven years of her life thinking this. And I. When she told me the story, I'm just like, no, no, he didn't actually steal that. He was joking. But that really opened my eyes. Yeah, it really opened my eyes to how kids understand things and what they take in and how they grasp what we are saying and how serious so much of what we say is to them, because they haven't quite reached the stage of development to understand a lot of the things that we have in our language.

[A]

Right. And then did it make you think, like, I read that story, and I was like, oh, right. What else.

[B]

What else is out there that has.

[A]

Been misconstrued or misunderstood? And so you really just lay the groundwork that it is really important you talk about the Little Prince book. Can you talk about the lesson there for the parent?

[B]

Oh, yeah. That is one of my favorite books. I love it so much. It. No, it starts with this. It starts with this. The narrator, he's talking about when he was a child and how he saw A documentary or read a book or something. Probably read a book because this was written a long time ago and about how a boa constrictor would. Could swallow an elephant whole. And so he. When he was young, he said he was about 6 years old at the time. He set out to draw a picture of this. And he just drew. It was like a line with the lump, which would be the elephant inside the boa constrictor, and then out the other line. And then he starts showing the adults, and they all guessing, oh, you drew a hat. And he's like, no, it's not a hat. So he draws a second drawing. And this one, he tries to show the elephant inside of that, you know, bulge and show that it's a snake. And then he shows all the adults the drawing, and they, you know, they. And then they then say, oh, great. Um, but really, you should turn your attention to, you know, numbers and, you know, facts and figures and. And so he says, so at that. But that is why at the. At the age of six, I put aside my dreams of becoming an artist and, you know, set forth on this adult path. And that is just. Oh, my goodness, the whole book has so many gold nuggets. It's amazing. But that beginning right there is just like. I really do think that the author wrote this for adult, even though it's a child's book.

[A]

Yeah. As a reminder. The power of our words. And so often we just don't even think things, we just say them. One of the things that you talked about, which I feel like almost everybody can relate to, is when we eventually just copy what our parents have said. Like, oh, you have these things. You're like, I'm never going to say that. Can you give us an example?

[B]

Yeah. For me, it was my mom. Every time I would ask her what was for dinner, she would say, food. And I would get so annoyed. I would get. I would just be like, why. Why can't you just tell me what's for dinner? Like, what does it matter? And. And then, you know, I became a mom, and the first time I was asked, you know, what's for dinner? It just came right out. Food. I just didn't even think about it.

[A]

Food.

[B]

And then I would get so annoyed with myself. Like, why am I saying that? I hated that as a kid. I don't want to be the one to say that. Yeah. So many different things, you know, they just. We get. We get so bothered by them. When we're younger, we're like, I don't want to make my kids feel like that. But then we turn around and they just, they just come right out of us.

[A]

Yeah, that's what's in there. And so you say that you have to really rethink it in order to move away from what you're used to hearing. And so you just really lay this beautiful groundwork about how our words might affect our kids. Be more aware of it, think about it more. Especially some of the things that maybe you grew up hearing and didn't like yourself, but are just sort of innate habits. And you just say them without even thinking. And then you go through a lot of these different particular situations. So I love to talk about the threats and ultimatums because that's definitely a way that people parent. I feel like we're moving away from that some. But to your point of repeating what we know, if that's how you are raised with threats and ultimatums about your schoolwork, about your chores, about, you know, all that type of thing, it's hard to figure out what to do instead. So can you talk about maybe why we shouldn't choose that route and what we could do instead?

[B]

Yeah, I know threats and ultimatums are so easy. They're so like, you know, they. They're easy to fall back on. It's just like, you know, we need to go somewhere, so you better leave the park right now or else, you know, that kind of thing. And. But the thing is, is if our goal in parenting is really to connect with our kids and nurture them as people and help them learn things like critical thinking and problem solving, then threats and ultimatums don't really do that. That just teaches them to be, to obey because they're afraid of. Afraid of you. They're afraid of the punishment. And fear is never, it's never a healthy motivator. It doesn't create internal change. It's just behavioral change. And so, you know, I find that when we're more intentional about how we talk to our kids about, you know, their behavior and what we need from them, when we take the time to actually connect in moments of conflict or whatever else we can, we can create long lasting change and have connection with them.

[A]

I talked to this man named Dr. Tom Cowan. He wrote a book called Common Sense Child Rearing. And there was a part in your book that reminded me of his book because you have this quote where you say, instead of trying to order the child, order the environment. And so it actually gives light to the fact that you might be able to parent in a way where you don't even feel the need to do those things at all. The threats and ultimatums, try not to order the child, order the environment. So in this. Dr. Tom Cowan's book, he was a doctor, and he worked with the Waldorf schools. And if there were, like, behavioral problems, he would go in and help. He'd have a meeting with the parent and the. The child and kind of help sort out what's going on. And he said that there were two teachers that never needed it. You know, their whole course of teaching in the schools, they never needed it. And it was like, well, did they just have different kids? You know, did they always have the most angel and the angelic kids and, like, they never had a hard one, or did they have this, you know, different set of skills that help them to deal with the kids that came to them? And I just thought that was a really powerful thing. So can you talk about some ways that you could order the environment to be in a spot where you maybe wouldn't need to use threats and ultimatums? You wouldn't even feel the need necessarily to do that?

[B]

Yeah, that is one of my favorite quotes, actually, was from my friend Tanya, and she wrote this post so many years ago. And it just struck me because I was really struggling with one of my kids, and she was talking about how, you know, she was trying to help one of her kids. So basically, what. What we did was we took our days. And it's easy, as, you know, if you homeschool, it's easier, I think, if you homeschool. But it's definitely something that everyone can do with their own day and home and rhyth. And we just created a rhythm that, you know, we would get up in the morning and we had certain kind of, like, focal points of our day. Our kids knew we were going to get up. We'd go to the table and have a candlelight breakfast. I think candlelight always brings some, you know, peace to a time that can be stressful. And then, you know, we'd have. We'd go into a morning time. We'd have a cleanup time. We'd have, you know, just different times of the day that were kind of focal points. We had, you know, pressure times of what I think simplicity, parenting. Kim Jong Payne talked about pressure release valves. And so we kind of put those into our day, which were just times when, you know, you look at what are your most stressful times of the day, and those times, you know, what can you put into that time to make it less stressful? A time when you can like kind of release some of that. So for us, it was always right before dinner. Right before dinner was always. It was just chaotic, right? Trying to cook, trying to get the table ready, trying to clean up, trying to get the kids here and there. And, and so then we would, we put in a time, you know, when we just kind of came together, said a prayer, kind of take some breaths, talk about things that are bothering us. We always do that before bed, too. That was another time of pressure. Release was right before bed so we could get things off our chest so we don't go to bed with frustrations. And one of the keys to that was kind of creating an environment that was kind of just. What's the word I'm looking for? It was, was stable. You know, the kids knew what to expect. And then the second part was that the child who's struggling in that time, not pushing them, not saying, come, you have to come. It's, it's, it's breakfast time. We're eating together, but just having this time, are eating breakfast. We'd love for you to join us. And then, you know, it's, you know, we're, we're going to read it. We're going to do our morning basket. We're going to read together. I really love for you to come. And a lot of times a struggling child will take a while to come into that, but eventually my experience has been that the, the stability and the repetitiveness and the, you know, having that peaceful environment and those times of stress relief throughout your day, it really allows and enables a child to finally go, okay, I feel, I feel comfortable enough to come. And I have always seen just a wonderful change in behavior with, you know, with just taking care of our environment and bringing rhythm into our days.

[A]

I remember reading that in Simplicity Parenting too, He said, where well established rhythms exist, there's less parental verbiage. Yeah, you don't have to say as much. You don't have to cajole as much. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, friends, It's Ginny from 1000 Hours Outside. I'll be honest, when something's weighing on me, I've definitely turned to the group chat, the neighbor at the park, or even the nice woman I met in the TJ Maxx return line. And while those conversations can be sweet, helpful even, they are not therapy when it comes to deeper challenges, things like anxiety, stress, or relationship strain. You need someone who's actually trained to help. That's where Better Help comes in. Their therapists are credentialed licensed professionals who work according to a strict code of ethics and they've been matching people with the right therapist for over 10 years. You fill out a short questionnaire and BetterHelp does the matching for you. They've served over 5 million people globally and have a 4.9 star rating from 1.7 million reviews. Sessions happen online on your schedule and you can switch therapists anytime if it's not the right fit. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with Better Help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com 1000hours that's BetterHelp hlp.com 1000hours because not everyone is the one, but your therapist should be Time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. If you're like me, you probably have life insurance. But do you actually know how much you're paying for it or how much coverage you're getting? Odds are you might be paying too much for too little. And here's something not many people realize. If you only have life insurance through your job and you're suddenly laid off, you could be left with nothing. That's why I'm heading to select quote. For over 40 years, Select Quote has helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. They're not a one size fits all company. They work for you in just 15 minutes. Their licensed agents compare top rated policies tailored to your health and and your budget and they do it for free. You can even get up to $2 million in same day coverage with no medical exam. And if you have pre existing conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, Select Quote partners with companies that can help. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than [e-mail] 1000 hours. Save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours hey friends, it's Jenny Erst from 1000 hours. Outside it's 2025. Are you still feeding your kids like it's 2005? That's where nurture life comes in. They're a game changing meal delivery service made just for babies and kids ages 10 months to 10 years and they are saving my sanity. Nurture life Meals are fresh, fully cooked and ready in just one minute. That means when my kids come home from homeschool co op starving. And each one wants something different. I'm not scrambling. Last night we were on the go. So my crew had spaghetti and meatballs and Mac and cheese meals they love that I actually feel good about. What I love most is that Nurture Life takes the stress out of feeding my kids on those days when schedules are hectic. No guesswork, no begging them to try veggies. It's all dietitian designed, allergy friendly, and yes, I've even snuck a few bites myself. You choose from over 50 rotating meals and snacks. Nurture Life does the cooking and everything arrives at your door chilled and ready to go. So head to nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55% off your first order plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and make sure you use my promo code 1000hours55. Even if you aren't a parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our code so our show gets the credit. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. And that leads me into. You talk about saying too much and, you know, you feel like, as a parent, I guess you feel like you should be talking all the time and explaining all the time and, and telling the kids they should be doing this and they should be doing that. But you make a case for saying a little bit less. Why?

[B]

Well, I think that just to quote Kim John Payne again, he says great.

[A]

To quote.

[B]

Yeah. He says when we say less, our words mean more. And I find that to be so true. We are quick, especially with older kids, we're quick to just offer advice to, to talk, to give them the answer. A lot of times out of fear, you know, we're just kind of. We're afraid of where they're going, we're afraid of their decisions, we're afraid of them not knowing the right thing. So we just talk, talk, talk, talk. And with our younger kids, while our words do give them a, a sense of, you know, it helps them with their language. They need to hear words. But at the same time, there are times when we offer too many words, when we give again, when we give them the answers instead of allowing them to use critical thinking skills and develop, you know, problem solving and figure things out themselves. My husband is great at asking questions instead of giving answers. And so one way to talk less is just to, to ask them things to get them thinking instead of offering all of the information to them.

[A]

Yeah, I like that you differentiate there, because it is good for kids to hear language. So you hear about narrating your day or I'm going to do this or that type of thing. This is different. This is, like, over explaining.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Over rationalizing is one of the examples that you give. And so then you talk about how, like you said, sometimes you could ask a question instead of taking over. Can you give an example?

[B]

Yeah. Okay. My son, Moses, I talk about this in the book. He was unloading a bunch of wood from the back of our truck, and he was, you know, carrying two pieces at a time into the backyard. And it was, you know, he'd done it a few times. And he comes inside and he says, this is going to take me forever. And my husband, instead of, you know, telling him what to do, said, well, can you think of a tool that you can use to make it easier? And he went back outside, and he walks around for a few minutes, and he comes back and he's like, can I use the wheelbarrow? My husband's like, of course. Go for it. So he wheels wheelbarrow out there, he fills it with wood. He brings it back, dumps it out, goes back. He does it like, twice, brings all the wood back. And, you know, it was. It was so fast. And. And I just, you know, that's just one of those times when I think, you know, if I. If it had been me and I hadn't really been, you know, thinking about it, I would just been like, why don't you go use the wheelbarrow? You know, and. And he would miss out on so much. He would have missed out on, you know, figuring, you know, figuring out the solution himself. He would have missed out on doing something that he really felt proud about, because he KN after that that he figured it out, he discovered the way to do it, and he did it quickly. And then, you know, he was congratulated by his dad. And it was just. The whole thing was beautiful. And had we not thought to not give the answer, but instead to just ask a question that would allow him to find the answer? He just would have missed out on so much in that.

[A]

Yeah. And then he gets to own it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. I don't know. I think we've all had experiences in life where you're doing something. I've had it. I was talking at this conference once with Joel Salatin, and we were talking together, and he's this farmer that I really like. I've read his books. I never In a million years, Amy imagined that I would be speaking at a conference with him. But they put.

[B]

I know you say that. And I'm just like, I'm gonna play it cool here.

[A]

But I'm like, I guess this feels normal. Anyways, we're doing this thing, and I'm like, you know, we're just like hobby farmers, and we're awful at it. And so I was talking about how we didn't want to have baby chicks. And so, you know, we're going out there and kind of, you know, gently shoving off the mama hen and grabbing her eggs. And he goes, why didn't you just get rid of the rooster? And I was like, oh, oh. Like, we're in a room with, like, hundreds of people, like, during our talk. That's what he says. And so when someone says that, when someone says, well, why don't you just use the wheelbarrow? You're like, oh, because I'm an idiot. How do you even respond? So I like that. I like the idea of just pausing, you know, instead of inserting your opinion, your advice to ask those leading questions, and it can really help the child. Own it. Another one that you say in terms of over talking is when a child comes to you with a problem or something that they're frustrated with, it's a reminder. I feel like we talk about this in marriage or friendship even, but to ask your kid if they're looking for advice.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Or do they just want to be able to talk?

[B]

Yeah, that's something we do with our teens all the time. It's, you know, it's so easy to just be afraid of what they're saying. It is so easy. And then we just, like, jump in. We're like, well, this is what you need to do, or you shouldn't feel like that, or, you know, it shouldn't go that way. And so we try. We try to just, when they come to us with something, not to react, but just to ask them, are you looking for advice or you just looking for someone to listen? And if they just want someone to listen, then we need to keep our mouths shut for the most part, you know, just. Just hear what they're saying. And it's so important for them because they, you know, teens, young adults, they speak. They often speak just out of emotion and out of what is going on in that moment. And they just need to get it out. They just need someone to hear them. And so when they. When they need that, you know, that's. That's who we get to Be. We get to be that listening ear. And that's really such a gift to be that person for your kids.

[A]

I love that you said you might be afraid of what they're saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For people that have little kids, they're like, oh, yeah, bigger things. It's bigger situations. This isn't even something to be afraid of. But I was talking to this woman, Jessica Smart, the other day, and she's got a new book coming out and she said, you know, these kids, they come, the older ones, they'll come and talk to you. And it's like 11 at night, 11:30. And it's not even sometimes what you're afraid they're going to say. It's just like, I wasn't expecting this. She'll say, the kid will come and be like, I'd love to talk with you about my power washing business. I was planning on going to bed, so don't know what's coming. But I love the advice about, you know, do you want me to throw in any advice, you know, for your business ideas, for your relationship ideas, or would you like me to listen? I know we all have experiences where we talk it out. I've had experiences like that. It's just like getting it off your chest and talking it out helps your brain to process and then you're. You're fine to move on. Okay. You talk about this in the book Amy, which I've never read about in any book, and I think it's really interesting, is rationalizing. Rationalizing is a symptom of hypocrisy. It's a means of justification of behavior, speech or ideology. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think we really talk about rationalization. Yeah, it's like you do something and someone's feelings are hurt or. I'm gonna give an example. I keep talking about. I'm talking about so much. I'm hoping one day to have a full episode on it. But we got kicked out of our church. The situation was that the youth pastor is a pedophile. And we didn't know he was a pedophile, but he was acting weird toward our son and he was just acting weird and he was doing non biblical things and talking in ways that, you know, pastors are not supposed to talk like, and the Bible says the pastor should be above reproach. So we sent in letters in the mail privately, and then they kicked us out for sending in letters. And when it finally came to light that it was way worse than anybody thought, but we did send in Warnings of our experience. Then they tried to. They tried to rationalize what they did, and they tried to say that we're an awful family. Like they spread this in the community, that we cause problems at all these other churches, which is not true. It's a lie. And also, even if it were true, that doesn't negate your responsibility to make the utmost effort to ensure that someone who's a pastor of children and is appropriate to be a pastor of children. And so, to me, is total hypocrisy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To rationalize. I mean, what you immediately do is you apologize. And so this is under the section of talking too much. And I just thought this is a really important thing because life moves fast and you're like, with your kids and you're doing this, and maybe you say an offhanded comment or, you know, whatever. And it's so easy, I think, as an adult, as a pastor, as someone who's in authority to look at your greater good and be like, well, I'm doing all those things. This doesn't really matter. And so you just kind of. You slough it off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think this is a huge issue, and I'd never read about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tell us more.

[B]

I, you know, it's the whole. It's the whole concept of our. Our kids are smart. They're smart. And so many times, you know, we're parent with the do as I say, not as I do, you know, and we don't think of it that way because a lot of times it's simple things. But, you know, something such as, don't yell at your brother. Then we turn around and yell at them. You know, just simple things like that. We, we are going to do hypocritical things like that because we're human beings. Like, we aren't always going to practice what we preach. It's just. It's just humanity. But the difference is, how do we take ownership of that, you know, or do we take ownership of that? Do we make excuses and, you know, just write it off to our kids? Like, you know, completely ignore it or tell them, you know, it's okay, I'm the adult. I'm allowed to do this, or, yeah.

[A]

I was having a bad day. Right. Any of the rationalization. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Or do we turn around and say, you know what? I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry. It's just a simple, simple. Just taking ownership, being transparent, being authentic, being humble in our kids. They like, they appreciate that. They. And. And it helps them learn to do the same. To take ownership, to say sorry, and that's it.

[A]

And just to say sorry, because this is in the part about talking too much. So it's so easy to say I'm sorry, but I'm sorry, but I was super stressed out. I'm sorry, but I was really rushing. I'm sorry, but, but, but, but. And to just say I'm sorry, to say less, because there really isn't a reason there. It. You know, there wasn't a reason for us to get kicked out of church at all. So you should say, I'm sorry, I'm. You know, instead of saying the but, but, but. And these are really powerful statements. Rationalization can take a severe toll on family relationships over time. While it might make the person using the defense mechanism feel better in the short term, and that's really what it's all about. It's all about you and your own guilt and how you feel in the short term, it can erode trust and communication between family members. Rationalizing is another form of saying too much. It's making excuses when we should simply be saying I'm sorry. It's fumbling for words that try to make what we did okay instead of simply acknowledging the fact that we were wrong. Oh, I think life would change if we all practiced that. Yeah, no more rationalizing.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

I really liked reading that. And you just talked about this. You touched on it for a second. But you say hypocrites are those who don't believe what they preach, not those who stumble. Can you unwrap that just a little bit more?

[B]

Yeah. I think that a lot of times we will feel like, well, we're not perfect. You know, we are. We are hypocrites. We. We're not perfect. But that's the thing is we're not. We. We are all human beings and we are all going to make mistakes. It's not about, like, being perfect, you know, and I try to, and this is what I teach my kids, is we're not going to be perfect in the things that we know are right. Like, we may know it's not good to yell at each other, but you know what? Sometimes we might. We're not perfect. It doesn't mean we're hypocrites. We're just human beings. A hypocrite is someone who teaches something and says, this is what you need to do. And they don't even try. They don't even care. That's hypocrisy. But you can care. You can try and you can make mistakes and then how do you take ownership moving forward?

[A]

It's real good, good ideas. You give some really good ideas about active listening. You have this whole TED talk about hostage negotiators and how they have amazing listeners and what they do. So that's fantastic. That's in the book. The book's called Words Like Honey and More about Repairs and Apologies. You say there are many parents out there who refuse to apologize to their kids. I just read this statistic that said 11% of women ages 65 to 75. I'm sure it's 11%. I'm not sure about the age range. It's something like that. Who have two or more kids have complete estrangement from at least one of them. 11%. One out of ten. It is so much one out of ten. So many parents out there who refuse to apologize. They're just really good reminders. And obviously when you apologize, you're role modeling how to apologize. As a mom, one of the most important things I can do is stay grounded in God's word and help my kids do the same. That's why I am excited to tell you about something brand new, the NIV Application Bible from Zondervan Bibles. This Bible is packed with thousands of study notes drawn from the best selling NIV Application Commentary series. And it's not just about what scripture meant, it's about what it means for your life right now. You'll find original meaning notes to understand the biblical text in its historical context, and application notes that show how those truths apply to your everyday life. Every book of the Bible includes introductions with modern insight plus character of God, articles, questions for reflection, and vibrant flowers, color pages that make reading feel alive. If you've ever felt stuck or unsure where to start, this Bible gives you a fresh, accessible way to dive in and grow. Visit nivapplication Bible.com to learn more. That's nivapplication Bible.com the other day my lamp broke. It's my bedside lamp and I use it to read late into the night because I'm always preparing for this podcast. It broke. It actually won't turn off unless I unplug it. And so I needed to find a new lamp for my bedside. And my favorite place to go, of all places to go is Wayfair. Wayfair is the perfect place to go if your tableside lamp breaks, but it's also the perfect place to kick off your back to school and fall season prep. Everything comes so fast and they have an amazing selection of things from cozy bedding and linens to storage solutions for every room, they always have you covered. Plus, their huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find just what we need to to transition smoothly into the fall. Besides lamps and linens, they even have playsets. We have the most incredible playset in our backyard that we got from Wayfair about six years ago and the kids still use it constantly. Whether you're refreshing your workspace with a new desk or making weeknight dinners a breeze with quality cookware, Wayfair literally has it all. And with free fast and hassle free delivery, even on big stuff like sofas and dining tables, there is no better time to shop, get organized, refreshed and back into routine. For way less, head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's wayfair w a Y-F-A I r.com wayfair every style, every Home Healing takes courage, but it also takes the right support. What if it started with a step away from the noise, a proven approach and a puppy? Capstone Wellness is here to help with a unique model founded on faith and clinical excellence. For teen boys and young men struggling with trauma, mental health and addiction, Capstone Treatment center provides a safe place to begin their healing journey. Every boy receives a Labrador Retriever puppy on admission and takes that puppy home when they graduate. Paired with deep therapy work, these pups help teach responsibility, nurture attachment and bring families together. For individuals, couples or families who aren't looking for residential care, vine and Root Intensives cover months of world class counseling in a concentrated multi day package to designed to retrace hurt back to the root. For over 24 years, Capstone has helped thousands of families on their path to healing. Learn more@capstone wellness.com 1000hours that's capstone wellness.com 1000hours okay, this is good for this audience because you talk about things not to say and one of them is be careful. Tell us why.

[B]

Yeah, so it's just kind of funny, but it's not. To be careful on its own is a bad thing to say, but without context it just kind of creates fear in a child. You know. So let's say you're on a hike and they're about to cross a stream and there are rocks that are wet and you just say be careful. They're like, well what? What am I supposed to be careful of? Where is this danger? You know, it's either they are totally not careful because it's just too vague and they have no idea what they're looking out for, so they aren't careful, or they kind of freeze and are like, oh, well, there's a danger. I don't know what it is. So I don't even want to cross the stream anymore. You know, it creates this. This anxiety in a child that makes them not. They're just not aware of where this danger is. So if we can reduce that phrase on its own and just kind of provide context, we can actually help with their critical thinking skills, you know. So they're about to cross the stream and we could say something like, pay attention to how slippery the rocks are or whether the walks rocks are wet or not. So they now know, oh, I should be looking out for this thing. I should be paying attention to the rocks to make sure I'm not going to slip. And it also makes them aware moving forward of this is a particular danger or something that I should pay attention to in my future instead of just, you know, again, be careful, be careful, be careful. And it's so vague. And it's just, you know, whatever.

[A]

I'm such a bad mom. I'm like, look, because I'm older, I'm like, I'm heavier now. I'm shorter than a bunch of my kids, which I'm sure you relate to. But, like, for a while, I was the tallest one. I'm not anymore. But, like, you know, kids, if. If they played outside, they know that wet rocks are slippery, you know, and they learn it when they're pretty young, right? You're playing in a creek or whatever. So I'm always like, can you let me know? They should be careful.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Yeah. That's what ends up happening. They're like, careful, mom. You know, this one's wobbly, right? I actually think kids, and there are some parents that say, look, my kid is a wild child. They're going to go full into anything, and, you know, I really need to kind of pull them back. But I would say that a good majority of kids are already careful. They're careful. Angela Hanscom says they don't want to get hurt, nobody wants to get hurt. So they're cautious and careful on their own. And I said, mine ahead. Let me know what I need to look out for. Okay.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Another thing you say not to say, which I totally agree with. These are like two of some of the worst things that we could ever say to somebody. Two words. Calm down.

[B]

Yeah, I hate that because it doesn't do.

[A]

Like what? Like, you're so, like, you're all worked out by. Your kid is all worked up. You're like, what in the world is saying? Calm down. Good.

[B]

Yeah. It just makes it worse. It does nothing. It just, it just causes them to, like, panic. Especially young kids. It's like, calm down. I can't. I can't calm down. And they're not able to get their, like, feelings out. And they're not able. It just, it just makes it worse. And it's not.

[A]

It is. And it has never worked. Like you say, like, I totally agree that you say never in the history of calming down has anyone ever calmed down by being told to be like, okay, calm down. Okay. Like, no, it just, it does not work.

[B]

Oh, I did, I didn't know I could just do that.

[A]

Oh, okay. And you say it's. It's rather dismissive.

[B]

Yeah, it is. Calm down is very dismissive of what is actually going on. Why is this, you know, why is your child so upset right now? You know, it just, it kind of dismisses their feelings and just tells them, get over it. That that's what they hear is just get over it. It doesn't matter.

[A]

What can we do instead?

[B]

You know, we can, I mean, it obviously will depend on where you are in the situation, but a nice hug, a nice moment of connection, just, I'm here for you. I'm ready to talk when you are. You know, we actually, in our home, we have a. We call it a time in spot. And so it's just somewhere that we can go when someone may need a little comfort and some help to calm down. And I've not heard of that idea.

[A]

It's, oh, yeah, I'm out.

[B]

Yeah. And so tell me, I want to.

[A]

Know more about it.

[B]

It's cozy, you know, it's cozy blankets and pillows and there's books and drawing things and, and you can just, you know, some sensory things for kids who may need some sensory things. And you just, you know, can take a, a worked up child over there, give them hugs if they will accept them at the time, or just sit with them, just be there. Do you want a story? Should we just sit here together? Do you want to draw just different, different things that, you know, may help them calm down. They can snuggle up in a blanket, you know, whatever they may need. And, and then you can just let them know I'm here, I'm right here. I'm not going anywhere. And when you're ready, we'll talk, we'll see what's going on. And you kind of Just sometimes have to wait it out until they, on their own, calm down. And you've been there and you've shown them you're going to be that rock and you're there to connect with them afterwards to see what's going on.

[A]

I want a time in Spot.

[B]

I know, I know. They're nice.

[A]

They should have these for adults. You see.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Do they have the tools and emotional bandwidth to go from 100 to 0 in mere seconds? The answer is no. No, they don't. And neither do I.

[B]

Right. Me either.

[A]

I don't think any of us have that exactly.

[B]

But we expected of the kids.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Don't say calm down. You also explain that sometimes the emotion that is presented is possibly not the emotion that they're actually feeling. And you gave a really incredible example about your daughter. And you think she's mad. She seems really mad. But what it really was is that she was sad. Can you talk about how you kind of got to the bottom of that?

[B]

Yeah, she was, I think she was around 5, and she was outside playing with her siblings. And then all of a sudden she, she started yelling and hitting the car. And so I went and I, you know, and I asked her, you know, what's going on? And she couldn't communicate. She's just yelling and yelling, and nobody else knew what was going on. And so I, you know, I, I, I picked her up and I took her to that time in Spot. And I just kind of sat with her as she yelled. And, and I said, I know you're, you're, you're not able to talk to me, but can you draw a picture of what's going on, why you're mad? I, I want to understand. And, and so she actually took the paper and the crayon and, and then she gave me her, her picture. And up here she had five faces, her siblings. And then on the other corner, she had one face, and it had tears. And I realized she was feeling left out and she wasn't mad. She was sad. And she just dealt with sadness in anger. And in that moment, I could look back over the years and see all these times when I just thought she was angry and being mean and that she was, that was, that she was just. Her sadness was coming out that way. And so from that realization of her drawing that picture, I've been, you know, we've been able to completely transition how we communicate with her when she is acting like that, because we realize this is how she deals with her sadness. So we don't need to address anger here. We need to, we need to address what's going on in her heart, why she's so sad right now. And it's really helped us with, with her as, as her parents.

[A]

Yeah. So things not to say maybe is just, I mean, we don't have to be the one assigning why are you so mad? Or, you know, getting, getting more to the bottom of it. You also talk about saying positive things and to aim for a 5 to 1 ratio, which is so interesting, Amy, because it is really easy to say nothing positive.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not that there aren't positive things, you're just not in the habit of saying them.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. It's like, you know, we will be sitting in a room with some, with, with a kid who's maybe making a lot of noise, and so it's easy to just be like, hey, knock it off. That's really annoying. But we will also be sitting in a room with them and, and they're being amazing and we realize how absolutely awesome our kids are and we just keep it to ourselves, you know, and, and, and it shouldn't be like that. Like we're not going to obviously tell them every single time we're like, you're great. But, you know, we do need to say those things especially. And that, that 5 to 1 ratio, which I can't remember the doctor's name, who, who came up with this, but.

[A]

It'S not John Gottman. People talk about him a lot.

[B]

Yes. Okay. And it's about, you know, for every one negative thing that we hear, we have to counteract that with five positive things. So if we're sitting there telling our kid, knock it off, that's super annoying. But we're not counteracting that with the positive. Then they're getting that message that what they do and who they are is annoying and they are taking that in. If we want to, if we, if we say that, because we're human beings and we are going to say those things sometimes and we just, it just happens. But if we want to counteract that message, then we need to be intentional about saying some more life giving and positive and kind things and noticing and recognizing the things that are, that are just, you know, gonna fill our kids with, with goodness and, and with good feelings and with confidence and, and all that.

[A]

Yeah. And you say, set a timer. Yeah. It's so true. You write about how when we say the negative things, it's like we feel you're provoked. Yeah, right. It's like you're irritated. You're like, yeah, pencil. You know, I got one kid, and it's. You're not even. Like, it's not even a negative thing necessarily. But I have one kid that always shakes. Stop that. Can you stop. Stop shaking your knee in certain situations and everything. I'm like, can you just stop? You know, so you're right. You're provoked happening. You're irritated. You're not necessarily ever provoked to say something nice because you're like, well, things are going well.

[B]

Right, Exactly.

[A]

Which I think is a very practical one. To set a timer. Set a timer on your phone or give yourself another form of reminder to say something kind to your kids multiple times a day. And then you have ideas in the book about different things to say. But that John Gottman, the magic ratio of 5 to 1. They talk about it, I think, in terms of work, but it can be applied to all of your relationships. So things to say, things not to say. I want to wrap it up here because you talk in this book words like honey, which you also have all these beautiful verses in Proverbs about kind words. Oh, they're so good. Kind words are like honey, sweet to the soul and healthy for the body. The words of the mouth are deep waters. A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit. A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver. So just beautiful reminder. I'm like, I needed the reminder, Amy. Like, you know, you don't get reminded often. Like, really take a step back and think about what you're saying. But you also talk in this book about something that hopefully comes for every parent. You know, sometimes there's obviously tragedies in childhood, but hopefully comes for every parent where you are going to let go. And now you're. You're an expert because you've done it several times, more so than I am, because we're at the spot where our oldest is, like, you know, edging up to 18, and we have, like, this one last family trip. He's like, don't want to go. I got invited to a friend's. You know. And you're like, well, I mean, I get that. You know, this is where you are. And he's. And he's. He's really, you know, we have this whole conversation about. He's like, we have this awful thing happen at the church. And he's like, mom, I had, you know, I lost my close friendships, and I feel like I'm starting late at this point. Now I'm this old and I don't feel like I have that many close friendships. And if I get invited, I really think it's important that I go. I was like, but we have a family trip.

[B]

Yeah. It's so hard.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, I lean toward you make your decision. You know, you're so close to being adult if you feel like that's really important. But for your, you know, that's what. That's the direction that I would lean. Then you have to deal with your spouse because you're like, what do you think? Right. Walk us through. I guess there's two parts, Amy. I think that you have to sort of live a life that's headed toward it because it's coming. So can you talk about sort of the lead up and also when it happens?

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's so hard. Like letting go is like, you know, tearing out a little bit of your heart. It really is.

[A]

And it changes your family dynamic. That's another piece, right, where it's like, well, this, you know, like, well, he's at camp lifeguarding for three weeks this summer. And like, well, you almost feel like, I don't want to go do that thing because he's going to miss it. So we're just going to sit home with the rest of us till he gets back. But you can't live like that. No. Oh my gosh, I'm struggling, Amy. No, we.

[B]

You don't even understand because our 23 year old daughter, she has a house like down the block from us, okay. And she has full time jobs, she's, you know, gone to college, all this stuff. And then we have twin daughters who are 17. And so they, they both have started working and they have pretty full schedules. Okay? So it's like, we're like, okay, we're gonna go to Yosemite, or we want to go to the aquarium, or we want to do this. And they're just like, you cannot do that without me. But, well, whether your schedule is going to mesh. Like, there's three of you. Even our 23 year old daughter, she's like, you can't go without me. But how can we ever go if we're waiting for you guys to have time off together? And then we're like, well, can you request time off? They're like, no, we can't request time off.

[A]

No, they can't. Because it's a first job or it's a second job, you know, you can't. You only get such a limited amount of time. Off. They don't have, like, the capital, like the working capital to like, you know, be like, yeah, I'm going to. I'm just going to go. I'm not going to be there tomorrow. Right.

[B]

So it's pretty funny because we've had to come to this place where we're like, look, we're going to do this on this day. You have plenty of time to hopefully get it covered or something. But we have to do these things. We can't just. Yeah.

[A]

They're going to sit home waiting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Want to go. I think that's great. But then that isn't. I think what you brought up was really interesting, Amy, because you talk about. You say letting go is a dance. This is a bit of a dance. When you had all your kids home under one roof, I would imagine that you could be very fluid. We're going to go. I don't even know. Are you close to Yosemite?

[B]

We're about three hours. Yeah. Three to four.

[A]

Because I was kind of like, you should have taken me there too far. All right. But, yeah, so that's not a place you could be like, okay, we're to going. Going tomorrow, but you can.

[B]

Oh, no, we do that. We do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We just get up, be like, we're going today because we're kind of spontaneous.

[A]

Well, right, But. But you're having to let go of some of your spontaneity.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yes.

[A]

That is the plan that, you know, if you're, like, the type person that's like, tomorrow's good weather. We've got nothing going on. We're going to Yosemite. And then it's tricky because you're wanting them so that they can let their boss know and they can try and work it out to get their dates off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, there's a constant changing.

[B]

It is. That is exactly what it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it is. It's like a dance, and it's hard and it hurts, but we have to let go in these, like, just little bits at a time. As our kids start getting older, what can we say yes to that? We didn't want to before and we.

[A]

Don'T want to now.

[B]

Right. We're gonna do it anyway, but we're gonna do it anyway. That's exactly it. It's giving them a little bit of trust, a little bit of, you know, they. They build confidence knowing that you have that trust in them. They can make that decision, and it helps to maintain that relationship as they get older because they know you're safe. They can trust you. They can come to you. You're not just going to tell them no. They're going to have some sort of autonomy over themselves and their lives, which is so important, especially when they're under your roof because you don't want them to have no autonomy and then get out in the world and all of a sudden they have all autonomy and they haven't learned how to utilize that and use that in a. In a healthy way. So you gotta. You gotta do that with them. Give them autonomy while they're with you so that you can help them make the right decisions and think through things a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. And then you talk about, you know, you've got this relationship where your daughter still calls. And so it's a relationship that changes. I. We let go because our. We. One of our kids had a friend in from out of town, and then. And he's driving, so he's. So his friend's coming in from out of town, flying in, and he's like, well, I want to go pick him up at the airport. I was like, the airport's kind of hard, you know? Yeah, it's like departures and arrivals and which way? Where do you go and which terminal? He's like, no, I really feel ready and I want to learn how to do it. Like, I just. And we're like, well, we could go with you. So anyways, it was just a couple of weeks ago, and then. And then when the friend left, it was like a 5am flight. So we were like, no, thanks. You can take your friend. You gotta leave at 4am or 3. 45 or whatever it was. And then just a couple weeks later, random, out of the blue, I needed him to pick me up from the airport. And I was like, thank goodness he's already done it.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Now he knows. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, it's just these little things. And I was like, well, you know, in the long term, it ends up being a good thing. Right. You've got someone that is out in the world and can do their stuff and take care of their life, but it is hard. And I. And I really love that you touch on it in the book. The book is beautiful and practical and really helpful and a really enjoyable read. It's called Words Like Honey, how to Avoid Unintentional Harm, Model Kindness and Nurture your child's faith through what you say. It's finally here, Amy. You can get it wherever books are sold, we always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite Memory from your childhood that was outside.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Favorite memory of my childhood, just camping with my dad. We only saw him every other weekend because we live five hours away, but we would fly and visit him, and one of the things he loved to do was to take us camping, and it was just so special. He used to sing. He sang to us all the time. Music was so such a huge part of our life. So we'd sit around the campfire and he would just sing, and it was just really, really special. And it's one of the. One of those things that's really, like, stuck with me.

[A]

I love that. That. I'm so glad you brought that up because I did think it was really cool when you do it. Your acknowledgments at the back that you have a song for each person. I've never seen that. It's such a cool idea.

[B]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's. Music is such a big part of my life, and I'm always finding a song for everything. So I was like, I'm gonna. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna thank everybody and give them a song and. And then I made a playlist, and they put a QR code for the playlist in the book, so it takes you right to it.

[A]

Oh, that's so cool. Oh, I see. I see it at the back. Acknowledgments. Mine is the woods, which is a beautiful song by Hollow Coves. I love Holocaust.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gorgeous.

[B]

Yeah, they're awesome. Oh, that's just reminded me of you.

[A]

I love that. Yeah. So the. That's a really fun thing. It's on page 210. You can just scan the QR code and it's a whole list of songs. That's such a great idea.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

To do the QR code and have the playlist. I love that. Yeah. So fun. I'm so glad you brought that up about your dad. Well, Amy, huge congratulations. I love that we got this chance to talk about your book. I love that it's finally here. I know it's been a labor of love for you, and I know that there's just way more things to come after. So huge congrats and thanks for being here.

[B]

Thank you, Jenny.