1KHO 571: Strengthening the Family Base Camp in a High-Pressure World | Luis Fernando Llosa, Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens

Summary

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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 571: Strengthening the Family Base Camp in a High-Pressure World
Guest: Luis Fernando Llosa (Co-author of Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens, Beyond Winning)
Host: Ginny Yurich
Date: September 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the pressures modern children face, focusing on how hyper-competitive youth sports, relentless academic and social demands, and technology-driven lifestyles fracture the family “base camp.” Ginny Yurich and guest Luis Fernando Llosa discuss practical approaches for parents to nurture emotional resilience in tweens and teens, emphasizing the restorative and developmental power of family connection, unstructured play, and intentional parenting.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Changing Pace of Childhood

[03:31-10:53]

• Modern children face an unprecedented pace of life, with heightened expectations, more structured demands, and less unstructured play than previous generations.
• Llosa recalls the free outdoor childhoods of the past: “When we were young, we played and played freely with no structure and very little if any parental supervision until the street lights came on.” – Llosa [05:00]
• Unstructured play is described as essential for healthy development and emotional resilience. Without it, kids struggle to manage today’s pressures.

2. The Human Cost of Hyper-Competition

[04:09-12:30]

• Both Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens and Beyond Winning discuss the “steep human cost” of the high-pressure, performance-oriented youth environment.
• Over-scheduled children are less likely to develop self-worth independent from achievement: “Failure in a 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 year old... is not an arena for learning and improvement. Often it's more a space where we self flagellate and stew in a feeling of worthlessness.” – Llosa [09:00]
• Even elite youth athletes rarely advance to the highest levels: Out of thousands of Little League World Series players since 1947, only 64 have gone on to play in Major League Baseball. [51:22]

3. The Fractured Family Base Camp

[12:30-21:17; 49:32-56:44]

• A central theme is “strengthening the family base camp”—the supportive home that helps children withstand bullying, academic stress, and social exclusion.
• Youth sports and overcommitment often erode this support: “What happens inevitably is that that time with family is really broken up and everyone's scattered to the winds and you do not have a strong family basecamp. And that is what kids need in order to weather... high pressure or bullying or any of the myriad of things that we've talked about.” – Ginny [13:57]
• Llosa highlights the role of family dinner and time together: “When kids are younger, they need to be having dinner pretty much every night with their families, with their parents, and learning from each other and conversing, developing the skills, the speaking skills that will help them go out into the world and communicate properly.” [22:00]

4. The Money Machine of Youth Sports

[12:30-21:17]

• The youth sports industry has ballooned from $17 billion to over $41 billion in just a few years, with families spending massively on travel, hotels, and club fees.
• Llosa gives personal examples (Disney soccer tournaments, required stays) and describes how financially and emotionally draining these pursuits can be: “We were forced to stay... otherwise we couldn't participate in the tournament.” [15:44]
• The financial divide worsens social divisions among participants, with scholarship and full-pay kids clustering separately at team events. [36:00-40:00]

5. Displacement: What Kids Lose

[49:32-51:03]

• Heavy involvement in structured sports and technology often displaces creative play and family time, both critical for long-term resilience and adaptability.
• Quotes from Beyond Winning warn parents: “While parents believe that by giving their kids so many opportunities... they are actually often dulling their children's creative sensibilities. We have found that when left to their own devices, kids develop and strengthen the creativity and adaptability muscles that will prove crucial in later years as they navigate the strenuous adult world of job market uncertainty with confidence and entrepreneurial flair.” – Ginny reading [48:10-49:32]

6. Practical Resilience: Family Connection and Mentoring

[21:17-47:27]

• Llosa shares stories like “Sophie’s Lake,” illustrating how unplugging, family connection, and slowing down can quickly restore a child’s physical and emotional health.
• Active, loving parental attention—even later in life—has a transformative, healing effect: “Giving undivided love and attention can shape shift their future in a way that you really hope for. It makes them better negotiators, more resilient, and more creative.” – Llosa [28:00]
• He underscores the unique, lifelong impact of mentoring and peer-based development: “The most important experience for kids is to mentor or teach somebody who was less talented or younger than you or both. That's what makes you a human, an empathizer.” – Llosa [41:40]

7. Lasting Skills and Lifelong Impact

[56:44-58:15]

• Anti-bullying and team cohesion are addressed with real-life, actionable strategies—such as sitting with different groups in the school cafeteria and reframing “quitting” as “withdrawing gracefully.”
• Llosa reflects: “Sports don't last forever... but the ability to care about and mentor others, to reinvent yourself, to be adaptable, lasts a lifetime.” [47:27]
• The books’ question-discussion-solution (QDS) model makes solutions accessible and actionable for parents: “You take these wildly important, very emotionally heavy topics and you address them directly.” – Ginny [56:44]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When we were young, we played and played freely with no structure and very little if any parental supervision until the street lights came on.” — Luis Fernando Llosa [05:00]
• “Failure in a 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 year old... is not an arena for learning and improvement. Often it's more a space where we self flagellate and stew in a feeling of worthlessness.” — Llosa [09:00]
• “What happens inevitably is that that time with family is really broken up and everyone's scattered to the winds and you do not have a strong family basecamp.” — Ginny Yurich [13:57]
• “[When] your kid is being bullied, even at the age of 15 and 16, if you bring them back into the fold... and hold them tight in the inner circle, even just briefly... you need to hold them tight no matter how they feel and how you feel.” — Llosa [23:05]
• “My advice often is take them out of the sport. Don’t let them think that they’re quitting... Withdraw gracefully to try something else. And you can tell them, ‘We'll circle back.’... It’s proven, it’s tested, it can work.” — Llosa [31:50]
• “The most important experience for kids is to mentor or teach somebody who was less talented or younger than you or both. That's what makes you a human, an empathizer.” — Llosa [41:40]
• “Grounded kids know their worth. This is what the base camp provides them.” — Ginny reading from Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens [50:31]
• “Seventy percent of kids quit these sports by the time they're 13. So you are displacing a lot when there's an overemphasis there.” — Ginny [51:48]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:31-10:53 | The escalation of childhood pressures and loss of free play | | 12:30-21:17 | The family “base camp” and the fracturing effects of over-scheduled youth sports | | 21:17-36:00 | Family cohesion, unplugging, and parenting through adversity | | 36:00-40:00 | Socioeconomic divisions within youth sports teams | | 41:18-47:27 | The importance of mentorship, lifelong adaptability, and holistic child development | | 49:32-51:48 | Displacement: What’s lost with over-structuring; creativity and adaptability | | 56:44-58:15 | Lifelong skills, the limitations of anti-bullying strategies, and the QDS model |

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Conclusion and Resources

The episode offers an urgent, hopeful message: Parents can help their children build real confidence and resilience by reclaiming time for family, fostering free play, and resisting cultural pressures toward busyness and achievement at all costs. Llosa’s books (Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens and Beyond Winning) are recommended as practical resources that help ground parents in wisdom, actionable strategies, and empathy.

Host’s closing endorsement:
“These books are phenomenal. You will go back to them time and time and time again... These are skills that will help them through their whole life.” – Ginny Yurich [57:50]

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Thank you so much for having me. A third time, Ginny. And any and every time you call upon me, I clear my schedule. It might take a month, but I clear the schedule. So happy to be back talking to you about kids and about the impact that we can have. The impact that you guys, you and Josh have had on so many. I mean, I think it's in the millions now of parents and kids and getting them outside. And from my end, getting them outside in the world of play as you do, but also in the world of sport in a parentally measured, cautious, careful, studied, but not overly scripted way.

[A]

Yeah, you have so inspired me with your books and you've written them with Kim Jong Payne. And so it has been such an honor to get to know the both of you over the past couple years each. And I do a lot of podcast interviews and there's a few books that pop into the Conversation a lot. Beyond Winning is one of those. So this is called Beyond Smart Parenting in a Toxic Sports Environment. Just a absolutely phenomenal book, one of the best I've read another book by this woman named Angela Hanscom called Balanced and Barefoot comes up a lot in the interviews that I do. But when I talk with friends, the book that comes up the most, the very most of all books that I've ever read is, is Emotionally Resilient tweens and Teens.

[B]

Wow, that's good to hear.

[A]

This is a book about empowering your kids to navigate bullying, teasing and social exclusion, which continues to become more prevalent every passing day. You know, the kids are really struggling. And it is interesting when I sit back and think about just the everyday conversations with moms and I'm like, do you have this book? Do you have this book? Do you have this book? Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens. And I, from the bottom of my heart, want to say thank you. I mean, we have used these books extensively and especially with the bullying, you don't know when it's going to happen, if it's going to happen ever, or when. And so you have it as a reference on your shelf that you can go and grab. You have this concept in both of your books and the things that you talk about, which is just about the change in the pace of life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the human cost of that. So in emotionally resilient teens and tweens, you and Kim talk about how when we were young, few of us experienced anything close to the frenzy pace of life, competing demands and heightened expectations that our children face every day today. Like things have really changed. And then you talk about in Beyond Winning, about how there is a steep human cost to this pushing in these hyper competitive situations. Can you remind parents that things have really drastically changed and we need to be aware of that so that we can help usher our kids through this in a way that's good for their development.

[B]

So thank you for the question. It's a really poignant one. It's really critical for people to dig deep into this area and study it. And then more importantly than ever, as, as Scott Lancaster, our co author at me on Winning with Kim Jong and I have stressed, we made the book, we built it around the QDS format question discussion solution. And for that topic you just brought up, there has to be an overarching question which you have already brought to the fore, but then a very intentional and much less than ego driven conversation around that question. And then we look for solutions. Now people say it's best to remain in question because when you have an answer, you've kind of stuck yourself to a little corner where that answer is. So keeping in mind that we always want to stay in question or as coaches should, in curiosity and learn more from other coaches, from the kids they coach every day, from the parents they encounter every day. This question is simply critical. And I have a friend who you may or may not know who wrote a book called until the Streetlights Come On. And there it is. And that book and that title encapsulates how it was for you, for me, for your husband Josh, for my wife Mary, for Kim, for his wife Catherine, for Scott. It's simply that when we were young, we played and played freely with no structure and very little if any parental supervision until the street lights came on. And that was an indicator or it was a mom screaming at the top of her lungs because it was her fifth time calling her kids to dinner was when it was time to finish, wrap up and go in and maybe even later on, you know, meet for a surreptitious little pickup basketball game which annoyed all the neighbors but was fun, you know, if you were 14, 15 or 16. But we, we, we rode bikes, we, we ran, we, we, we caught balls, we played. My wife Mary wasn't, was a bit of a sports person, although she just admitted to me the confessional was that the kid named Eddie was the reason she joined the softball season team and no other. And that's why she was playing softball. But she would go out and play imaginary with, you know, games with, with other, other girls and guys, chase flashlight tag, which I, I mentioned in, in Beyond Winning is one of the greatest ever invented games. And it's all with kids and flashlights and no adults. It's so fun. It has mystery, it has change of direction. If you want to be a, you know, an athlete trainer type person on this, it has, it has a discovery, it has all kinds of fun. These are the things that we did. It was, it came naturally. And as we talk about in what is perhaps my favorite chapter in Beyond Winning, the Power of Play, chapter four, we have since and maybe before, but during the time that we were all doing this in our teens and toddlership and beyond, we were acting out what Piaget and every single specialist in the world up through to the Harvard and the, and the, you know, we quote, we quote a Harvard group, husband and wife group who talk about how scripted and, and stultified and constricted their, their students are. And it's not The Tooth plus and the, and the early childhood kids that the wife works with, but the kids who are Harvard freshmen and sophomores and juniors. And it's how to, how to break all this up and it's through play. If your kid does not play freely, unsupervised or quasi, you know, semi supervised in order to make sure things don't go haywire, then they won't be able to handle what you just mentioned, which is this rush of issues and pressures that come up and you mentioned it broadly. And I'll drill down specifically into youth sports where a Little League World Series just happened again as they do every year in Willowsport and you have 11, 12 and 13 year olds who are competing in a spotlight, a thousand watt keg light of media that is possibly marking them in a negative way for the rest of their lives. Because as we've said many times, you and I, failure in a 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 year old and sometimes in a 35 year old is not a, an is not an arena for learning and improvement. Often it's more a space where we self flagellate and stew in a feeling of worthlessness. And that may happen now because none of us are growing up properly anymore. I guess I don't want to be too dark about this, but you know, some of us are in our 50s, you know, and still like acting sometimes like kids who haven't grown up because I haven't self actualized yet and I hope I do and I wish I do and I want to, but here we are. And so think about me at 57, not sometimes be able to handle a separation between my performance and my self worth in a 11 year old kid who is on, you know, ABC being watched by millions and kids in Japan. And how do you recover from striking out three times and looking awful. So why are our kids being put in this situation? And why is there such a arms race for performance and victory? And why is it still the case that we have national championships, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 year olds. What nation is being championed? How is this helping our kids? In very little ways. And it's too much.

[A]

Too much.

[B]

That question has several branches it can take now and I don't want to go too deep into them, but I'll just give you an overview before your next question, which is that the youth sports industry, when you and I spoke the first time and when I got the introduction to what I find is one of the coolest and most incisive interviewers around and that is you. And I am an investigative journalist, and I've interviewed the highest profile athletes on the planet. I've interviewed presidents. I've interviewed, you know, the muckety mucks, the Ford CEOs and those guys. And I've learned that as a deep skill. And you just bring out the best enough authors who can barely remember sometimes the chapters names, which is why every time I'm on with you or anybody else, I carry my books. It may be also to image plug what the heck, but often it's because you asked me a question. In fact, in our second interview, you asked me a question, and I blanked. And it was a major concept. And I don't want you to go back and look at the tape. But there's a time when I literally say, and as a good interviewer that you are, you redirected. You answered my question for me. And then I. I got back my steam and plowed forward. So thank you eternally for teaching me that not being prepared for Jenny Urich is a whole kettle of worms that I don't want to be participating in anymore because I ain't going fishing for my own ideas.

[A]

You got the books right there. Well, tell us about the money. Because one of the things that was really surprising to me about emotionally resilient tweens and teens, which, like I said, I think is a book every parent should have on their shelf. I didn't grow up in the youth sports complex, and so Beyond Winning wasn't a book I would have maybe picked up, but just that I love Kim Jong paying. And there is so much in that book that is pertinent for every single parent of today. And then obviously, like, I read anything that the two of you write together, anything that you write in an emotionally resilient tweens and teens, which is about bullying, I was surprised that a main premise of the book is strengthening the family basecamp. Now, that's a phrase, Louise, that I have said over and over and over again to people. You have to strengthen the family base camp. And I was surprised at how important it was and how important that simple idea actually worked. I had a thought of, well, this seems really simple. Like, is it actually going to do anything in our own personal family situation? We use this book in our own personal family when we had a child that was being bullied. And it was so powerful to just sort of take a step back and to strengthen that family basecamp. And I think one of the problems, and you speak so well to this with where we're at in life is the fact that there is so much money going into these youth sports, it is weakening the family base camp immeasurably.

[B]

Yes. And harmfully to no end. But sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Well, you had brought up the money and the change and how that, there's that piece of it. So can you talk about how one of our goals especially for to protect the emotional health of our kids is to have a strong family based camp. But when you have youth sports that are so all encompassing, there's so much money attached to them, what happens inevitably is that that time with family is really broken up and everyone's scattered to the winds and you do not have a strong family basecamp. And that is what kids need in order to weather. They need that to weather the things that they're going through, whether that's high pressure or bullying or any of the myriad of things that we've talked about. So you had started to talk about the money and that really relates to the fracturing of the family.

[B]

Absolutely. And when we first, again, when we first interviewed the, the big figure being quoted of the youth sports industry was that it was a 17 billion dollar industry and it was on the COVID of Time magazine. My friend Sean Gregory wrote this article and I talked to him about it and that figure was pretty darn accurate. Now today, only, I guess two and a half years later, the figure is 41 to 43 billion dollars. It includes everything that you're talking about that streamlines a parent's families of families encounters with their kids beyond school and beyond the home life. And that is the travel hours and hours and days and days spent in cars going to and from places so that your kids can have, quote unquote, the opportunity to be seen by college coaches or by other coaches. So many parents now shop their kids around for the best program. I've, I've had people like parents I talk to for let's say hockey who are in a state near Minnesota that doesn't have a good hockey ecosystem, drive 11 to 12 hours on a bi weekly basis to get to the place where they then drive to other games. So this is crazy. That industry number involves all the hotel stays which can be financially crippling all the pay to play systems that are out there, which may mean other things, but it also means that if you're on a team you have to stay at Hotel X and you have to stay there for at least two to three days in a two to three day tournament. So what I found was when, when my son, my son, my Two sons played in a tournament in Disney, the Disney Soccer tournament. In December, the height of, you know, expenses and family travel to in Christmas. We were forced to stay. It's a beautiful place, of course, the largest Marriott in the world in Orlando. It's called, called One World. We had an awesome time because it was pools and slides and all kinds of crazy stuff, but we were forced to stay there, otherwise we couldn't participate in the tournament. And because I have a big family, I had to get two rooms instead of one. And while they did give us a good rate, it was still, you know, 400 plus a night, maybe almost 500 for my daughter and my wife and my three boys to be able to be comfortably situated there. You could not enter the tournament even though you're on that team and you're traveling from New York unless you were paying. So that's sort of one of the nuts and bolts issues that is going on there.

[A]

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[B]

But the emotional cost that you speak of is. I'm going to say that to me the most clear way that Kim and I, Kim Jong Payne and I put this in emotionally resilient tweens and teens within the story we wrote called It's Life that's Bullying Me, which features Sophie, who's a kid who is, I believe, as I recall, it's been a few years, an elite soccer player. And she's great, and it's a huge part of her identity. And she's training all the time. She's not seeing her sister, who used to be her best friend and has distanced herself from her, partly because they're both so busy with different things. She is not performing well in school, and she. Her friends are becoming mean to her because she's so soccer focused and not really socially engaged and she's being overwhelmed by social media. And then she goes, thankfully arranged by her mom and grandma to stay in Maine on a cottage by a lake where her grandma lives. It's obviously at that point a. A winterized camp and learns from her grandma how to be. It's wonderful. They kind of separate her from devices because the WI fi situation is not very good there. And. And by the way, the scene on the dock in that story where the kids cluster around the far end of a dock in the cold to try and get WI fi on their cell phones is a scene right out of my life. My wife and I went to a lake called Caboose Conti in Maine, and it was like, you know, not a very expensive rental, which is what we liked about it. And there was seriously little to no WI fi, not just because there was no cable, but because there was no aerial, aerial WI fi. And my kids figured it out anyway. They found out that the neighbors, who were never there and were friendly with us, so it wouldn't be like a major, you know, trespassing issue, had a dock, and at the end of the dock, far as far out in this very long dock that they had as you could be basically in the middle, beginning in the middle of the lake, you could, if you held your phone just right, grab a signal temporarily even, and they would play a game there or connect with their friends. So in the story, Sophie and her Sister are trying to do that and it doesn't work very well. So they start baking with their grandma, playing board games, all the stuff that until the lights came on, we would do on vacations, right? And they have an awesome time. And then the grandmother saddles up to, to mom and says, hey, maybe you, maybe they're all going back to some swim tournament that her older sister has to go to. Or at least the dad is. And that's the other thing. If dad's in charge of swimming and mom's in charge of soccer, then both mom and dad aren't seeing each other enough on weekends, which is our only time free from work. So that relationship, the pivotal one, the paternal and romantic imago that the daughter and son learn from in terms of how they go out and relate to others, is already becoming tenuous and disintegrating in the worst cases. But also the connectedness of family, like how often do they have dinner together? So now my kids are a lot older and they sometimes will go take dinner into their room and they'll watch their show or we'll be in the living room. These are, I'm talking about 20 and 30 year olds right now, because I'm aged. But, but, and that's okay. I mean, we try to come for a. Together, all the major events we come like Easter and all that, we come together as a family. But when kids are younger, they need to be having dinner pretty much every night with their families, with their parents, and learning from each other and conversing, developing the skills, the speaking skills that will help them go out into the world and communicate properly. Because kids don't even know how to communicate properly, you know. Lmao. Lol. It's not talking, it's not connecting. So I don't know if I've gone far enough into talking about this, but certainly in Sophie's case, her poor academic performance or her nervousness, her sleeplessness and a very nasty, what they thought was viral cold that she got all disappear in the quiet of her grandma's care, in the silence of digital exclusion, of being there, being present. We don't have to get too Zen about this, but it's actually true that being now here with your family is the most powerful teacher, developer, and creator of a love bond and a loyalty bond and a familial strengthening bond ever anywhere. It's what works. It's what is, it's what must be, it's what we have to recapture. And when it comes to bullying. So if one tries to do this, one's family life improves no matter what. But when kids are being bullied, even at the age of 15 and 16, if you bring them back into the fold, and this is Kim, this is me channeling Kim Jong Payne here. So it's his words or my paraphrasing, it's bringing them back in the fold and holding them tight in the inner circle, even just briefly. Like, if your kid is 16, they're not going to want to be in your tight embrace for long, and they shouldn't be, because that then, you know, stultifies their own personal development and path towards independence. But when they're being bullied and they're possibly thinking about harming themselves or any of that stuff, you need to hold them tight no matter how they feel and how you feel. And the best way to understand and to come closer to your kid, who really doesn't want to talk about this stuff with anyone, and especially with you, the parent, they just don't want to, is to start creating conditions which are not traveling in a car to a tournament where they better perform, or you'll be pissed at them because you wasted all this money on gas and hotels and they didn't even get in the game. Or they, they, they flubbed two kicks. And your frustration with their bad performance is 1000% understood by them viscerally, emotionally, physically, no matter how you hide it. So that's a critical thing. We need to learn that when we're parents, we're also on a stage and our kids are our audience and we need to walk the proscenium with light feet. We need to be loving and kind, but be aware that they pick up more on our. Our own eye roll, our own gesture, our own, you know, sidling up to a parent and saying, man, that was a waste of time. All that stuff, they see it all. It's highlighted in their psyches. And it is our job to model and to be cautious. And I sound wonderful. The words coming out of my mouth may even be, you know, tinted with inspiration. But I've made every mistake in this arena with five kids and some that I wish. I mean, it brings me to tears that I wish I could get those moments back, be a better parent, be a better sports parent, be a more sentient human, be a better husband. And the one thing I hold tight is that every moment is a new opportunity. That's right. My kids are in their 20s, and I can still do better. And I'm trying, failing, succeeding, succeeding wonderfully, failing horrifically. But I will keep trying. And that's what parenting is and that's what living life is. And that's why our kids, if we've worked with them and cared for them and instilled these values when they were younger and not dispersed their energies too much in the, in the youth sports complex or the youth music complex or the youth dance complex or any other complex. And I use the word complex in two ways. The complex of the industry and our own personal complexes that we really need to resolve in order not to foist them upon our kids in the Jungian sense. So sorry for the, for the wavering voice for a minute, but it's, it's me seeing this within me that has made me more aware of it outside of me. And it pains me when parents like the one I wrote about in the, in my introduction to Beyond Winning, the dad who was apologizing to me profusely when his two and a half year old didn't have the right form as we walked the golf course and the kid was putting and putting, it's like, why do you give a hoot the quality of your kids? At 2, he barely can hold the, you know. But people have stepped in, Ginny, and are doing better. Kate Tempesta, one of our whole child sports celebrated coaches and is a golf coach who brings golf to little kids. And she does it with larger balls games based on the principles of the Montessori teaching. And Kim does it with the Waldorf teaching. And those kinds of pedagogies can be and are thankfully, to some degree infiltrating the world of sport. So that parents ask me, when should I put my kid into sports? Or my son is just got cut from the baseball team where he's not playing much and his other friends were called up to the elite team and he's feeling depressed. My advice often is take them out of the sport. Don't let them think that they're quitting, because then they'll quit, maybe, perhaps. Or our fear is that for the next 30, 40, 50 years of their life, not quitting, but withdrawing gracefully to try something else. And you can tell them. And one dad did tell his son, and I caught up with him a few years later. And this worked. It's proven, it's tested, it can work. He said, we'll circle back. I know you love baseball. You'll circle back, but let's do some other stuff. And they went hiking and they tried mountain biking. They tried sports that were individual to the, to the, to the parent and the child, which really helped because then the Kid was having one on one attention from dad and with mom doing other things, one on one attention with mom and developing a skill, you know, mountain biking, coordination, balance, hiking, a lot of muscle development which helps with future prevention of injury. There's so many technical ways to shape what I'm saying here. But the bottom line, mom, dad, paying attention to the little kid, the little kid being 3, 5, 7, 10 or 15, giving undivided love and attention can shape shift their future in a way that you really hope for. It makes them better negotiators, more resilient, more creative, which are the skills, among others that they will need in this weird shape shifting life of ours. Today, with so much other pressure, is the climate going to be okay? Is my job going to be steady? Why is this my fifth job in three years? Can I pay the checks? Do I have to start a side business? Hey, I've started six and that's how I survive. You started one which was very much a side project until it has become a behemoth of centrality for yours and Josh's life and your kids lives, which is awesome. But you would not have had the resilience, the skill to do this if you had a really good childhood as well as the training that Josh had in, in his career and the training that you had in yours. And also if you didn't have the heart, Jenny, to really open yourself up to society and give so much of your time and your kids time to modeling and living what you are proposing to the rest of the world. And that's where I'm trying to do better in modeling and living the whole child sports experience. And I think it enrichens me and my ability to help other people that I've made my mistakes and it must so for you, I guess. And no matter how amazing we are and how great we shape the opportunities and the moments in our life and even if we triple it to 3000 hours outside for our kids, kids, even if we homeschool them, they're still going to challenge us and in a way, rightly so. And in terms of personal growth, they must. Otherwise they won't break the shell and they'll be adulting in their into their 40s. So here we are. I mean, absolutely, yes. When sports consume parents, then their pocketbooks, you know, and a lot. Some of the people I talk to, they're lawyers, they're entertainment lawyers, they're, you know, they're doctors, they have all the money to do all this. But they're also sending setting a bar for all the other people who don't have that money. And even in, even in the wealthy schools, the, the kids on scholarship or even in the wealthy programs, the sports programs, the kids on scholarship get bifurcated and that now we're going from like with apologies to your question from the familial setting and strengthening the family base camp to strengthening the team base camp in these sporting events. And I'll recall for one team that I participated in the stark realization among me and two or three other parents on this team that whenever we traveled for these soccer tournaments, these college participating ID camps they call it to ID your kids skill. And that happens in every sport. But I'm just talking about soccer, but that's my more, more most prevalent experience in these situations. All that pressure to perform in the games. But then when we went and hung out at night, what happened? We were all going to watch this soccer game that was happening. We went to a bar, we got clearance for the kids to sit. They didn't have alcohol, of course parents we did a little bit. But the point is we, I looked around and so did two other parents noticed this as well that all the kids who were on scholarship sat on two tables together next to each other and all the kids from the wealthy and middle class families who were full pays for the club were sitting in a cluster of four tables here and, and never the twain should meet except on the soccer field. Except. And I walked in because they invited me to a room where seven or eight of the kids were playing FIFA. It was all the kids from the wealthy families. And then I went to see how those other guys were doing and they were all in another hotel room. So not just at dinner but in, in their free time and hotel room. They weren't getting together. So in the way that one should do subtly, not obviously cautiously, but intentionally, we, we parents figured out to talk to. You can't talk to an immature kid and say you've got to mingle with, with the other guys because they'll make it a thing to bully the kids with or to make jokes with their friends. With my son, in this case the one I'm the one that was there was a bit of a mature guy and I could, I could able, I was able to tell him and so were two of the parents to their kids, hey, we need to bring this team together for the good of the team and because it's just not right. And these three kids knew it and saw it immediately. They hadn't noticed it. They hadn't seen it. On their own, but we guided them to this. And for the rest of the, the, for the rest of that trip and for the trips going forward, the team bonded and became a better unit because nobody was allowed by the kids themselves to separate into these camps of, you know, camps of possibility, camps of monetary, you know, capability. It was now, you know, and one of the things that they all did, which was awesome that night after that pub performance when three of the kids went and sat with the other guys and then everybody was like, this is weird, but dude, and then they all mingled. Is that all the kids, unbeknownst to us and without our consent and not very happy about it in one regard, they all. This was in, in Raleigh, Durham, they had scooters that you could put a coin in or your credit card in. Yeah, all the kids, all of them. Not just the, the scholarship kids who are eight or eight or nine or. But the. And the full pays and the wealthy kids or, or middle class kids who are 12 or 13. They all rented a scooter and went around playing on ramps in the parking garages. But they had an experience that they talked about on and on for weeks because, dude, I almost crashed into that guy. Now, of course, for us soccer parents, when we heard about the next day, we're like, crap, you could have like sprained your ankle and been out for the season and then what happens to all the money I paid to fly here and drive here and all the, you know, that kind of thing. But, but it was a bonding experience that, that they will never forget and that made the team more cohesive. So if you're such a results driven parent that all you care about is your team doing better, then start impacting them through social gatherings and social togetherness. Because your goal of winning at all costs will actually, will actually be. Your goal will be strengthened and the team will benefit. But hopefully you're doing it for other reasons. But if you're not, if the only thing you care about is winning, then creating a better social atmosphere and a less bullied atmosphere on your team is a way to win. Because kids who know each other and like each other play better. Better and support each other on the field and improve each other's abilities because they teach each other. It's all about the mentoring.

[A]

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[B]

I'm Christian McCaffrey, pro running back and Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL. I'm not kidding when I say NFL by Abercrombie broke the Internet last year and I think this season's lineup is even cooler. Cooler. And so does my wife who keeps stealing all my hoodies. Stay fit for the season. And Abercrombie's newest arrivals shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online and in store. And I was asked actually on Kirsten Jones podcast about preparing your child to be a college athlete, what the thing, the most important thing that I would tell I can't remember how she phrased the question. It's one that she asked every one of her guests. But my answer was not like for the coach was and the kid what most important experience was for them in, in, in in participating. And it was to mentor or teach somebody who was less talented or younger than you or both. Is that what, that's what makes you a human, an empathizer? And for the parents who are like yeah Luis, that's all very cute. I'll tell you that's not how I mean it. I mean it. That is that we're human beings and we need to help each other and we are stronger for it. And if you have a team of Navy SEALs who are, you know, tasked with doing the most dangerous things in the World. They also develop, you know, social, social and emotional training because it's a very social and emotional thing that they're doing. You know, so for the rah rah parents who say, yeah, whatever, I want my kid to be the best and compete well, if you want him to compete and be the best and be with the best, he needs mental training, he needs social emotional training. What we call it at Whole Child Sports, which is the organization that Kim and Scott and I founded, an awareness organization and it's whole child sports.com just as it sounds, is PPSI, which is physical, psychological, social, intellectual. Every one of these aspects or areas or arenas really of a kid's development, an athlete's development must be weighted equally. Yeah, train the brain is one of our phrases. Have your kid learn the sport, the history of that sport, the rules of that sport, the techniques in that sport, the hows and whys. That sport, even though became what it is and how it's, how it's evolved over the years and how the balls have changed and all that stuff. Have them learn that as a homework task as well as have them learn how their brains work and why they're responding in certain ways to triggers when they're on the field, how their, how they're thinking in memory works, how, how, what is it called? The second nature development in movement works. How you make a movement second nature. And when you want to really cast that in stone like some of the fundamentals for your sport and when you want it to be a little more malleable so you can be more creative on the field. And one of the ways to be creative on the field, if we circle back to what we were talking about earlier, is to not be in a command oriented, regimented, adult and adult ego driven setting too early in your sporting life, keep your kids playing and having fun and maybe in recreational leagues a little longer than you think you should. With my last child, I did this. My last child was the youngest of five, but the youngest of three boys that were tightly knit. And they're all great athletes and each of them has had their journey and each one's journey resulted in this or that. And one was perhaps the most talented of the three, but did not make it as a college athlete. Another made it but had a physical ailment which really just crushed that dream. And the third has made it and is now navigating the will I get playing time at this high level and all the other difficulties. But, but that kid had the opportunity to play travel because I, I started to Know all the people and I was working with people in the, in the travel world more, more than in the recreational world. At the point that he was coming up, he had, he could have started playing travel at six or seven years old and already been launched into that performance craze and all the travel and stuff. But I kept them on purpose out of it. So for the parents who say your kid has to start at 6, otherwise they won't have an opportunity at 10 and 12 to be the special player that at 16 gets noticed or 18 or whatever for college or for pros, even though the stats are dismal for your kid ever making it to any of those rungs on the, on the, on the arms race ladder, if you will allow a totally screwed up metaphor. The. The fact is I kept him in playing with me as his coach so I could steer the situation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I kept him playing simply in rec. He was kind of too good for there. He was always the top scorer. He's a good player. So I, because he was even then a tiny bit more mature than some of his, some of his cohort was able to say, okay, it's great that you scored three goals, but either a, you're going to play goalie or defense for the rest of the game or try and help one of your teammates, assist them to score. And he would do that and they would love it. Yeah.

[A]

And that's going to improve his skills.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you have to work on helping somebody else, that is also going to improve your skills in the process. Absolutely. What a win. Win.

[B]

And your mentorship and your teaching skills and therefore all the other things you need to be a team player and leader in any team, in any project management situation, in any career in your future. But one of the things that warms my heart about him is that he did at 17, 18 and 19. And even at 20, he became a coach of kids. And hey, by what I gather, they love him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he cares.

[A]

And that's so meaningful because sports don't last forever. Well, some do. Golf people do that for a long time. And they swim. Yeah. Those are, those are good things to pay attention to. My mom has always talked about that. What are people doing into their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and do those things, you know, and some, some they're not. So pay attention. But you have given parents so much to think about here. Luis and I wanted to just highlight a couple parts of your book so that people can know that they can have these resources in their home. You talked about the boys and how they went into the scooters and how they remembered that. And then they're talking about that. Well, that's a novel experience to them. And you talk about in Beyond Winning, you talk about how I want to read this because this is really important. You talk about what's coming, which is actually kind of already here. The stark reality is that our kids have to be prepared to reinvent themselves often and on the fly to jumpstart entrepreneurial ventures when jobs with established companies are scarce. People used to stay with the companies until retirement. Ten years ago it was typical to see people staying in their jobs for five to ten years. Then the average dropped to three years. Now we're seeing that 18 months is normal. Your child is going to have to be quick on his feet and and know how to adapt. The world we are living in today is becoming increasingly unstructured. Times are more fluid. Children have to be prepared to adapt to radically changing circumstances as they become young adults and enter a frenetic job market. So while parents believe that by giving their kids so many opportunities through all of these activities that they're giving their kids a competitive edge, they are actually often dulling their children's creative sensibilities. We have found that when left to their own devices, kids develop and strengthen the creativity and adaptability muscles that will prove crucial in later years as they navigate the strenuous adult world of job market uncertainty with confidence and entrepreneurial flair. That is just one small section in Beyond Winning. It is a phenomenal book. I think one of the themes that we've talked about here, Luis, and that you've highlighted so well is this topic of displacement.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That when so much time is going toward this youth sports complex or technology or any of these types of things that are sucking up all the kids time, it's not going to creative play and it's not going to family. And I want to read one more section from emotionally resilient tweens and teens just talking again about how powerful these books can be in your home. Because you're talking about strengthening the family base camp. And I was skeptical, Louise. I was like, how could this really work? And it does. Grounded kids know their worth. This is what the base camp provides them. You say at the top of your list is the need to move in closer. Doing simple, fun activities together with your child or teen will counterbalance the negativity flooding into your family life through the Internet. You have this steadfast, loving presence. It provides your child with a buffer of safety and emotional security. So then when you were talking about Sophia's story, which is chapter nine, and it's like that her life is kind of bullying her. This fast pace of her life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This one sentence, living at a crazy life pace can make you really vulnerable to teasing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Parents need to know that no matter how good your anti bullying strategies are, they do not work well if you are stressed and oversensitive. These are things that everybody needs to be aware of. And for what? I read this statistic, Louise, the of the thousands. Because you brought it up. This. There's been thousands of kids that have done them. World Championship. The Little League World Championship, Right?

[B]

The World Series. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Little League. Okay. Little League World Series. Thousands of kids. And it's been going on for a very long time, right? Like for decades and decades.

[B]

Decades, yes.

[A]

Since 1947, it's been going on. The Little League World Series started out in 1947. Of the thousands of kids who have participated in this elite event, I mean, you are the top of the top at that moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Only 64 have gone on to the major leagues. So it's like. And for what? You talk so much about how Almost more than 70% of kids quit these sports by the time they're 13. So you are displacing a lot when there's an overemphasis there. And what your books do is they help ground the parent. And I think that part of the reason that we're in situations that we're in these days is because no one's reading.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People have to say, look, here's luis. He raised five children and he is in his 50s. He came on this podcast. He had a hamstring surgery yesterday. I mean, what a guy. Came on, didn't miss it.

[B]

I wanted to say, I'm not sitting. I'm not sitting back like this because I think I know stuff, because I'm a wise man, but. Because if I move in any direction, it hurts. But.

[A]

But we're not taking as a general population, it's like we're not taking the wisdom of people who have come through ahead of us.

[B]

It bothers me. It bothers me that the school, that the book only sold maybe 5,000 copies. It bothers me that emotionally resilient tweens and teens is just breaking the 10,000 copy mark. And not because we're getting any money from this, because we're not, but because we want these messages out. The only solace I have with beyond winning is that I know that influencers, people who are changing thousands and thousands of Lives through their administrative work and social impact work, have read the book and are taking it seriously. The Aspen Institute's Sport and Society program uses it as one of its key sources for youngsters and toddlers. It has brought me in touch with amazing people like Megan Bartlett, who founded the center for Healing and justice through sport with Dr. Scott Perry. She's written a book. He's written stuff, obviously with Oprah Winfrey, but with many other people and done insanely good stuff for people. And just quickly also it has brought me in touch with. And now I work in conjunction with the center for Sport and Human Rights and Katie, Hannah, Annabelle Short and Cassidy, who are three people who are pushing an incredible program called Generation 26 Youth Media Forward and the experiential capturing of youth experience at a mega sporting event like the World cup, gathering data on the ground before and during so that we can hopefully, along with a company called Maximum City, push out reports that can inform the creation of a more youth experientially friendly and dynamic experience to be redundant for kids at Olympics events, at World cup events, and that their human rights not be trampled on and their child's rights not be trampled on. That whole area is something that I'd love to come on and talk to you more again, maybe even with one or two, I don't know. Do you do sometimes two or three people?

[A]

Yes. Those are fun.

[B]

I would love to have Hannah and Cassidy, Annabelle, Katie Hannah or Annabelle Short and Cassidy, to talk about how they've empowered kids in Guadalajara, in la, in New York, New Jersey and in Toronto, three different countries, to become many journalists. And the kids, I've read the stuff they've done. It's wonderful. One kid even said doing this gave me a voice. I mean, there's more that they said. And I'm just saying this quickly because I know we're wrapping up here, but if you give one kid a voice, you've already won. The score is already 50 for, for you. And, and the 0 is for the people who are trying to shut shut kids out and funnel them and silence them and accidentally, unintentionally, that happens so much. So if you have the time and the space for another kind of youth sports thing as we approach the World cup, which is occurring in the U.S. canada and Mexico, just shy of seven or eight or nine months from now, we could talk about the work that the center of Human Rights and Maximum City are doing, which is phenomenal because it's about the kids and it's about making sure that they are heard in these mega events and that all future mega events have input from kids about what the experience is that they're having. Because until now that wasn't done. Maximum City is doing this and it's the first time ever it's being done.

[A]

What a powerful thing. And so needed.

[B]

It's time for us to change.

[A]

That's right. Things so needed. Especially with these statistics. 70% of kids quitting by the age of 13. I want to tell parents and anyone who's listening that, that the books that you write, they come, and you mentioned this before, but they, they come from the premise of what are the main questions that parents are asking. And this is in both books. So people are coming, they're asking, they're saying, my kid is being bullied online. My kid is being bullied in person. My kid is being excluded. I just talked to this mom. Her daughter wrote a book and she was in, I can't remember the exact grade but she was in the fourth grade or something like that. And third or fourth grade had gone to a new school, didn't know anybody. Goes to sit down at lunch with these girls and they all got up and left her there by herself to go to another table. So the exclusion, like that type of thing. And so you take these wildly important, very emotionally heavy topics.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you address them directly. And that's what you said at the beginning, the Q, whatever it was. QSR or qsd.

[B]

Question, discussion, solution. Yeah.

[A]

So like this would be one. A parent says, my child is five years old. A lot of the parents around me are busy choosing a sport or sports for their child. But I'm not sure if it's the right time for him to start organized sports yet. Will he miss out if I don't start him early enough? That's a heavy question your parents are trying to answer.

[B]

A lot of pressure on them.

[A]

A lot of pressure. And you talk in this book. This is from beyond winning. Kids who have some activity crammed in for every day of the week where they follow an adult's instruction or game plan are being limited. They are not learning how to self start. And so it's just thing after thing that we all have to read. These books are phenomenal. You will go back to them time and time and time again. You may even use them for yourself. I know Kim's head was saying he'll have letters from 30 year old women who say I learned about bullying from you when I was a kid or I was going through therapy or. And now I'm Using it in the workplace. And these are not static skills. These are skills when you talk about the team bonding and all of that. These are things that will help them through their whole life. So, Louise, what an honor to get another hour with you. Right after surgery, no less. What a guy. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. And I'm really excited about the opportunity to talk about the center for Sports and Human Rights. We will do that soon. And once again, thank you from, for me and for all the listeners, from all the listeners for being here.

[B]

I will climb the highest mountain, swim the coldest lake, navigate the craziest, poorly designed city to get an opportunity to share an hour with you about something that you are so passionate about and that you are bringing to light in so many ways and shining the light on authors, including, you know, from all walks of life and all subjects and giving us an opportunity to, to, to get the word out. Because it's hard, you know, and unless you have a deal with Good Morning America and unless, you know, Tom Brady likes your book on his, you know, instacart, whatever, you know, the. The fact is that only, you know, a smattering of people will, will find this. And with what you do, more and more people are listening to the message that Scott, Kim and I in Beyond Winning are trying to get across and that Kim and I are in the emotionally resilient tweens and teens. And even in that book. There are two major resolutions to sports bullying cases in the bullying book, because so much happens there and so many kids become entitled little monsters because they're the elite. And that leads in the most extreme cases to the kind of bullying that propels unstable kids to do horrific things. And that is very serious and very important because you're talking about jocks bullying different kids, the other nests in the room, and then the otherness at its breaking point. And in the most extreme cases, but more and more often now, doing what you know, going to that resort, which is horrific. And to your note about girls getting up, I spoke with and I feature in one of the chapters of Beyond Winning, a coach from Massachusetts, where sports are crazy, right outside of Boston, who implemented an entire social scenario because he was both a the football coach at other schools and the assistant athletic director, as well as the vice principal for lunch, where his athletes in middle school were also talked to about being mature about this and not being weird about it. Were told you must on Mondays, or maybe it was Fridays in the cafeteria, not sit with your sports teammates at all. Or there will be consequences. And they started sitting with kids, other kids who never had had a jock, whether it be a volleyball star girl or you know, a tough and rough football linebacker sitting with them and giving the time of day. And it helped them socially rise their cue factor in the dog eat dog middle school world or dog cat or catty rat or whatever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it helped. It helped change the dynamic of the entire middle school. And suddenly kids who hated sports or avoided them were going to support their teammates. You know, so it goes both ways. More kids watch the sports for their friends because they were friendly to them. And it changes and it ricochets. Or better yet, it refracts a form of goodness that we need more of in such a starkly darkened child universe.

[A]

That's right. That's right. Luis, this has been such an honor. I so appreciate your time and all of your wisdom. I could not recommend more highly these books. Emotionally Resilient Tweens and Teens and Beyond Winning Smart Parenting in a Toxic Sports Environment. I can't wait till the next time.

[B]

Thank you. Take care. Take good care.

[A]

Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon. Yep. Get a new phone on any plan with select phone. Trade in and MyPlan and lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan. This is a deal for everyone whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current based monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

[B]

Limu Cable and Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music. Limu.

[A]

Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save. We say that may have been too much feeling.

[B]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very unwritten by.

[A]

Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.