← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 575: My Life Changed When I Started Growing My Own Food | Bailey Van Tassel, Kitchen Garden Living
00:51:59
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- [00:01]
A
Fall is about to be in full swing and because it's already starting to get a little chilly in the mornings and evenings, I've been slowly but surely refreshing my wardrobe with pieces that actually work. Things I'll wear on repeat, not just once. That's where Quince comes in. They make it easy to stay warm, look polished and save money, all without sacrificing quality. Speaking of chillier temps, I'm absolutely loving the Mongolian cashmere gloves I recently got because my hands seem to always be cold and I can easily toss them in my purse or backpack just in case the weather changes quickly. I've also been eyeing their wool coats. They look totally designer but cost a fraction of the price. And their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They start at just $50 and are incredibly soft. What makes Quince different is how smart their model is. They partner directly with ethical top tier factories and cut out the middlemen so you get luxury quality clothing at half the price of similar brands. It's a wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. Honestly. I've even been browsing their bedding and travel bags lately. Quint's is turning into a one stop shop around here. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quints. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and Bailey Van Tassel is back. Welcome, Bailey.
- [01:22]
B
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here and just see your face. You are like a bright light of joy every time I see you.
- [01:28]
A
Oh, thank you. And we got to see each other in person at the Homestead Festival in. I always forget it's in Columbia. It was in Columbia, Tennessee. Yeah. I was thrilled to see you. I didn't know anybody and my family was supposed to come. They didn't come last minute. And you were there. Joel Salatin was there. And when you go to a place where there's a lot of people and you don't really know anybody and then you see a familiar face, it is like a balm to your soul.
- [01:52]
B
Absolutely.
- [01:52]
A
It's a person that I know. So it was such a buzzing and you had the most beautiful booth in and you have a new book out and it's called Kitchen Garden Living. And I have to say, Bailey, I was like, wow, she's really brave. To write a gardening book, because I'm like, there are kind of a lot of gardening books. But I was like. I was like, man, I have so many notes from this. Look how many notes I have. I mean, I loved it so much. Once again, it's called kitchen garden Living seasonal growing and eating from a beautiful, bountiful food garden. But it's about so much more than that. Like, it's about how we raise our children. It's about what the. What are the things that we can get from gardening beyond just the, you know, the food or whatever. I mean, there was so much in there. So I would just love to talk about how this was not a part of your life. Like, you are now a gardener who writes books, and this was not a part of your life at all. Even though you kind of grew up in, you know, a situation where people were gardening around you, you were like, I'm not interested. So can you talk about the coming back to it and how powerful it was for you? You talk about how there is a just enoughness in the garden. It's so good.
- [03:03]
B
You're so sweet. Yeah. So I very much thought when I was younger that, like, my apple fell really far from the tree, to use, you know, a garden analogy, because my parents were, like, down home from the country. Wranglers, belt buckles, rodeo. And I wanted to be a ballerina. And then I wanted to be a travel journalist that worked for Conde Nast with high heels and a briefcase in New York City. And I was like, enough, enough. Horse poop on my shoes and hay in my hair. I don't want to do chores. I don't want to be dirty. I wouldn't wear. My mother had to pay me $20 to wear a pair of jeans in a family photo because I would not. I was like, I shall wear dresses like the lady that I am. And then fast forward to. I think a lot of women go through this. I started to settle down. I, you know, I. I did move to the city. I did have all of these big, wild experiences. I lived in West Hollywood. I traveled the world for work. I did all the big city things honestly, as, like, quickly and as young as I could. And I kind of had this knowing I needed to get it out of my system. And once I did, I came right back to home and my par. Like, I mean, that, like, not physically, I never went back home, but just, like, from a soul place. And once I got married, I remember my husband always being like, what do you, you know, want for your future? And I was like, I just want to raise my kids out in the country with, like, a creek in the back and. And a big garden. And he was kind of like, okay, ha, ha. Like, you know, and here we are, and that's exactly what we're doing now. But it was really having my first son that unlocked something in me where I was like, I need simple. I need nature. I need. I need. I want to build a, like, character within him that I felt was really lacking. And I was living in Southern California, Orange county, just in a place that I didn't feel very resonant with. So I was like, I am going to build an environment for him that matched what matched my values. And so that's kind of what brought me to gardening, was that feeling of, gosh, I really need to give my child some sense of nature and the seasons and things that kind of had been imparted into me but didn't unlock until I was older.
- [05:24]
A
Yeah. I've got two questions. So you talk about how in the book, you leave and you. You go to the city. You see, leaving my small town was the big dream. Until it wasn't. It was the first of many hollow accomplishments that led me right back to where I started. Took you 10 years to realize it. You say you are working with the mega wealthy, coordinating luxury international excursions, fundraising for philanthropic causes, hosting live events for hundreds of entrepreneurs and. And CEOs, even led an evening with the president of Rwanda as a guest speaker. You say you had an overwhelming access to money, but an underwhelming connectedness to nature, to living in harmony with the seasons, and to having an awareness around soil, food, and resources. Do you think that people can be homesick for that return to the soil, return to natural rhythms when they didn't grow up in it?
- [06:13]
B
Absolutely. There's a word for it, and I wish I knew what it was in. I feel like Scottish. It's like this homesickness for a place that either never will be or you've never experienced. And what it is, and maybe it's part science and maybe it's a little bit part, like, woo is biologically, we respond to nature. So when we kick up the. The invisible microbes in the soil by touching it with our hands, serotonin is actually released in our brain. And that's part of why I loved having my. You know, I've loved raising my kids in the garden. With me is just the unseen that's happening. And, you know, there are tons of studies done around the world of green space just Visually being able to see green outside the windows of a school or a hospital. Helping children focus, helping people heal. People are even being diagnosed. It was the Royal Horticultural Society in. In England that was starting to talk about how Doctors were prescribing 20 minutes of gardening a day. Being out in nature, using your hands, literally, for people that had, you know, sort of generalized anxiety or depression. And I absolutely believe that you might not recognize it immediately as, I need nature, I need to unplug. But it's going to be a discontent. It's going to be like this. I feel like you start to fray at the edges. Like, you know, when you see, like, you know, like a wire that's breaking from a headphone or something is starting to fray. I just. We. There is vibrationally, scientifically in nature, things that are happening, and it impacts our body in the most beautiful way. And so I think we have a deep longing for that on a biological level, because we weren't meant to be disconnected from nature.
- [08:05]
A
Yeah. So there's a deep knowing there. How about the message of I gotta get to the city? Like, where does that come from? Do you think that your parents could have done something different? Not that I'm trying to pass any judgment or blame. It's just like a more. More blanket question. Parents in general, like, you left for 10 years, and obviously that's a really good path because then you see what the other thing is like, and you're like, okay, I don't really want that. Or, these are the parts I want. These are the parts I don't want. And you kind of adjust your life accordingly. But as a parent, do you think that there are ways to mitigate that or is it just a really overwhelming cultural message?
- [08:45]
B
So I think that what my parents did really well was at an early age, they really were like. I mean, they weren't flawless, but, like, I think they largely were kind of like, this is who she is. Um, she's really interested in. And it's funny because it's all come very full circle. Like, I was very. I took art classes for eight years. Um, I did ballet. I was just very girly, I guess. Prissy. Maybe that has a negative connotation. But even in high school, people called me the hillbilly in high heels because I came from this, like, kind of redneck.
- [09:18]
A
Oh, that's like a song. Total country song. Do you sing?
- [09:24]
B
Oh, my God. Not only, like, you know what I do. Sorry, this is a total digression. Do you do this by. I was asking someone this like, when I get completely overwhelmed. I have three kids under the age of eight, and, like, it's like, no one's putting away their shoes. I'm losing my mind. Like, that's what I sing when I'm just, like, actually losing my mind.
- [09:43]
A
You absolutely sing. And so, please, next time we're together, can you make the song the hillbilly and high heels do it?
- [09:49]
B
I just need someone with a banjo and a mandolin.
- [09:52]
A
That's a kid's.
- [09:53]
B
Oh, that could be a kid's book. Okay. Anyways, so my parents really embraced that I was not gonna be like them, and. But they brought me anyways. I was, like, helping reroof the house with my dad. I was changing the oil in his cars. They taught me all the lessons. They imparted all the wisdom. They included me in everything. I was sorting apples at the neighbor's apple farm. I was doing all the things, and they were just kind of, like, at peace with Bailey's. Probably not gonna be like. Like a rodeo queen. I was just not into it. So they let me responsibly be super independent. I've always been that way and kind of do my own thing. But they, like, drug me on hikes, and they, like. You know, they made me do the things even though I complained about it. And now I. I experienced that a little bit with my own kids. But, you know, they. They didn't really garden that much, I would say. But they certainly exposed me to, like, the beauty of nature. And that is something I wonder about, is, like, my mom is one of those. Will really, like, admire a beautiful flower and speak into that. And they're very. My. All of my parents are very, like, don't miss a sunrise or a sunset. Like, the beauty of the natural world is not lost on them. I remember my dad passed away about seven years ago, and one of the last experiences we had together, we went on a horseback ride in Montana, and we heard elk bugling. And the way that he looked at, like, the September yellow leaves falling and listening to the elk bugle unlocked something in me. And I feel like from a young age, I got to experience that secondhand where I really saw my parents. They put themselves. They built lives for themselves that revolved around what they loved. And eventually that did sort of seep in to me, if that makes sense. And so they let me do my thing. But eventually, because it was, like, baked into my bones at a young age. Yeah, it kind of. It kind of came through. And they laugh about it. I mean, now I'm. I'M writing books about gardening, and I'm designing gardens for other people. And they're like, what is actually happening? Like, what? My husband gets mad because, like, I'm dragging mud in their house. And they're like, we couldn't pay to get you money as a child, so.
- [12:10]
A
Oh, but you know what? Those roots matter. Those roots matter. So this is encouragement for the parent who's listening. And my kids don't want to go outside. Are you kidding me? There's technology inside, and there's. There's no bugs. I mean, I think that this is the fight that we fight and we take them out anyway, because then they have something to return to when they know they need to return to that. You know, they had these different ages in their adulthood. So you say, okay, you're gonna get this pot. And, you know, that's like what you start with. Just a one pot garden. And you say, your life changed when you started growing food. Your husband was skeptical. He says, how do you even know you're gonna like gardening? How do you know this isn't just a phase? You know, you've never even grown anything. So it turns out that it's not a phase. You start with this one pot garden, and now you're writing gardening books, and you talk about this, which I think is something that I'm saying. I'm like, you write a gardening book, but it's got a. It's got a lot of the specifics about gardening. So, like, if you want to know how many potato plants for your family, that's going to be in there. If you want to know how to Companion garden. If you want to know, which I've always wanted to know. How do you make trellises? And there's four different ways to make a trellis. And here's how you do the twine. And there's all of these different ways that you can do that. If you want to know all the nitty gritty, it's going to be in the book. But then you also talk about sort of some of the intangibles. And one of them was this. You say, my life changed when I started growing my own food. The act of being able to learn again, to build intuition and know how from scratch and to build confidence. You say you could freely fail and succeed. In essence, it was play. And I thought that sentence of. Or that phrase of the act of being able to learn again is such a deep one, because it is really easy to go through life and to stop learning, especially when you hit adulthood. And gardening provides, because it's tricky, a continual opportunity to learn. So can you talk about that part of it, why we need that, how powerful that is?
- [14:06]
B
For sure. I just built this beautiful garden for a family. It's like a woman, and she. Her daughter's living with her, and she's in her 50s. Her daughter's in her 20s, and she's like, I've never gardened a day in my life. This is my daughter's dream. We're, like, making it happen for her. But her daughter's out of town the day I come in to do the install, so we spend weeks building. It's like, this stunning garden with stone and, like, raised beds. And she comes out and she wants me to, like, plant with her that first day because she's nervous. I mean, she's. She's in her 50s. Like, old dog, new tricks. And so I bring a bunch of plants, seeds, and I have her help me. Side by side, we're chatting about life. And I'm. I am a very sort of laissez faire person. Like, I'm not. It's so funny as I was sort of conditioned at a young age to be. And this is why the remembering to learn kind of comes in, too. And I feel like many of us, especially, like, of our generation, kind of grow up to, like, get good grades, be perfect, like, do what you need to do to get by, and, like, follow the bouncing ball. And that is actually not my personality. So I'm. I'm with this woman, and it's like, I am so, so okay with failure in the garden, in life, I'm so okay with taking challenges and risks. And I think that's something that you, like, build up to in life. But I was just like, there's no way to do it wrong. Like, just do it like this. Just kind of allowing her to safely make the mistakes while I was there. And her. The way her personality changed in front of my eyes from being very kind of just, like, quiet. You could tell she's very careful about what she spoke about. Like, and then starts planting and sewing and having fun, and she's laughing, and she's telling me stories about her childhood. And then I came back, like, four days later for a photo shoot, and there were sprouts, you know, and she is giddy, beside herself. I have chills thinking about it. And I know maybe that sounds silly, but, like, those were this. The lettuce seeds that she sewed herself. I didn't even do anything. I just helped coach her through it. And she was so excited. And those went on to mature and she was just so thrilled. And now what was something she did for her daughter is something they do together. And so I felt my own, in my own journey very much like that. Where it was like, as an adult, we're constantly calculating opportunity costs, how we're spending our time. What's this learning curve going to cost me? I recently got an iPad to start learning new design technology and I'm like learning to use. Too steep. I don't want to do it. It's like I got to, I have to. You don't learn canva like you have to.
- [16:26]
A
So I like pic Monkey. What? It's spelled P I C M O N K E Y. And no one ever talks about it. They always talk about canva. But I think PicMonkey is way more intuitive. And I've been using it for the whole time I've had a business and I do all my own graphics and I just love it.
- [16:44]
B
Okay, thank you. Yeah.
- [16:45]
A
So.
- [16:46]
B
But it's like, I feel like we have this. Once you become an adult, you've already decided that you know how something's gonna go, how you're gonna respond to a challenge. Like, we've, we have so much shame and trepidation and just like programming neurologically and to what our capabilities are of and how to avoid the things that make us uncomfortable and keep us safe. And you're definitely gonna fail when you're gardening, but what you're going to get from it is so beautiful. And it was, it was a place for me where I had been working in like this hustle culture and just really had took my life very seriously. And then all of a sudden I was like, I am just going to do what I think it makes sense. Completely self taught, completely for fun. There were seasons. Things were like a total mess. And my husband, who's very kind of ocd, like very straight lines, was like, this looks horrendous. And I was like, not for you, babe. This isn't for you. Okay, Enjoy your tomato and go quietly, you know, watch football. Like, get out of here. But being able to cultivate that really unlocked something in me. And it, it was an example in adulthood of building a new and true sense of confidence where I was like, I leaned on my knowing, my intuition and my knowledge, and I saw something successful come out of it. And, and that feeling is so unshakable. And then you think about imparting that onto your children throughout their lives and it's like, wow, that, that's how you build confidence and self worth. You know, it's not by pushing them to perform at a level that you're acceptable with. It's about letting them experience and master something that is meaningful to them.
- [18:25]
A
I would imagine there's not much, much else like it in terms of the, use the phrase endless possibilities. There's endless possibilities of things that you can learn and things that you can try if you want to learn something new as an adult, you could do a craft. You know, there, there are different things that you could do. But the fact that this is so broad and to your point, I mean, you do fail. Our garden is horrendous. I like to use that word. Yeah, it's horrendous. I saw Dr. John Deloney. He posted his garden at the beginning of the season and it was so pristine, I was like, oh, darn.
- [18:59]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [19:00]
A
So awful. And actually it's so awful to the point, Bailey, that in some ways I don't. I sort of avoid going out there because it's so, in some ways, in my mind, it's so disappointing to me. This is the sixth time we've tried. This is the sixth time we've tried the Sunflower House. The sixth time it hasn't worked. Hey friends, it's Jenny Erst from 1000 Hours Outside. It's 2025. Are you still feeding your kids like it's 2005? That's where nurture Life comes in. They're a game changing meal delivery service made just for babies and kids ages 10 months to 10 years. And they are saving my sanity. Nurture Life meals are fresh, fully cooked and ready in just one minute. That means when my kids come home from homeschool co op starving and each one wants something different, I'm not scrambling. Last night we were on the go. So my crew had spaghetti and meatballs and Mac and cheese meals they love that I actually feel good about. What I love most is that Nurture Life takes the stress out of feeding my kids on those days when schedules are hectic. No guesswork, no begging them to try veggies. It's all dietitian designed, allergy friendly and yes, I've even snuck a few bites myself. You choose from over 50 rotating meals and snacks. Nurture Life does the cooking and everything arrives at your door chilled and ready to go. So head to nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55% off your first order plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com 1000hours55and make sure you use my promo code code 1000hours55 even if you aren't a parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our code so our show gets the credit. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. Do you know what's finally here? Fall cooler temps, crisp air, apple picking. And of course my kids running around outside. Which is wonderful except for the sneezing, watery eyes and endless tissues stuffed in door handles of my car. Gross. That used to mean allergy meds for some of us. But then we found Earthly herbal remedies for just about everything made with pure real ingredients. Nothing is weird, nothing synthetic. And I thought, wait a second. Here we are living this beautiful natural life while taking totally unnatural stuff just to survive it. Well, not anymore. Now my cabinet is stocked with tinctures that actually support our outdoor life. Even my husband is on board. He loves that these products work and are affordable. My personal favorite is Sinus Saver, a total game changer. And listen, from September 10th through September 15th, Earthly is running their huge $6 tincture sale. It is the perfect time to stock up, try something new, or finally toss those guilt causing bottles in your medicine cabinet. Don't love what you get. They will refund you. Honestly, the only thing you'll lose are your pharmacy reward points. So head over to earthly.com that's earthly with an L E Y and use code 1000hours for 10% off your next purchase. Get 10% earthly e a r t h L E Y.com with code 1000hours. Healing takes courage, but it also takes the right support. What if it started with a step away from the noise, a proven approach and a puppy? Capstone Wellness is here to help with a unique model founded on faith and clinical excellence. For teen boys and young men struggling with trauma, mental health and addiction, Capstone Treatment center provides a safe place to begin their healing journey. Every boy receives a Labrador Retriever puppy on admission and takes that puppy home when they graduate. Paired with deep therapy work, these pups help teach responsibility, nurture attachment and bring families together. For individuals, couples or families who aren't looking for residential care, vine and Root Intensives cover months of world class counseling in a concentrated multi day package designed to retrace hurt back to the root. For over 24 years, Capstone has helped thousands of families on their path to healing. Learn more@capstonewellness.com 1000hours that's capstonewellness.com 1000 hours and I feel like sort of this crushing sense of disappointment. And yet I do go out there. And when I go out there, it is teeming with life.
- [23:03]
B
Teeming.
- [23:04]
A
There's no vegetables. None of the watermelons grew. Nothing's there. But there's flowers, and there are just butterflies and bees and grasshoppers and, you know, so it's just an interesting reminder that life doesn't have to look like how you hoped it would look. It actually can maybe look horrendous.
- [23:24]
B
Totally.
- [23:24]
A
And there can still be a lot of beautiful life there.
- [23:27]
B
Well, in my. So I moved to Tennessee a year and change ago. Year and a half, let's call it. And it's a new growing zone, coming from California, which is like, you know, the Garden of Eden, hypothetically. You know, hypothetically for growing conditions. And I actually much prefer growing in this climate. I really love the seasonal changes, and it actually creates a lot of flexibility because a lot of plants need cold to. To thrive. But this summer, first of all, I'm realizing I'm allergic to most of the summer bugs. I get these, like, if chiggers bite me, I get welts all over my body. And this is. Maybe this is tmi, but it, like, looks like, look, a litter of kittens could nurse off my legs. Like, it's, like, ridiculous. And my garden, I got free goat compost from a friend, which was so generous, but it was full of weeds. I went out of town and, like, it was just. It was a disaster.
- [24:22]
A
Like, like, if your mom was, like, listening to this podcast, she would be like, I can't imagine that Bailey would ever use the phrase free goat compost.
- [24:32]
B
Oh, my God, no, no. As a child, I'd be like. Like, this is disgusting. I would have been just. I was such a little. Like, such a little brat. But, you know, in a funny way, very sweet. But, yeah, never. And I. And touching it with my hands, like, you know, my kids always want to, like, full body dive into piles of dirt now. And I'm like, that's poop. And they're like, we don't care. I'm like, okay. But, yeah, so it was. It was a total, in some eyes, failure in others. And we got a great bounty. And I was able to still, in my first season, replace a majority of, like, our summer produce. But I kind of was like, I'm going to reconfigure this. And it was a direct reflection of the season of life for me. Like, I was so busy. A new part of my business completely boomed out of control in a way I hadn't imagined. And I had to reconsider how I was going to make that priority, continue to be successful. So for me, that means I'm going to do a higher volume of the same crop. So. So like, instead of like a big variety, it's like, okay, we're gonna double down on broccoli and go less heavy on brussels or whatever, and a lot more pollinators, a lot more flowers, so that you can see your success and you can keep your soil healthy and happy, which is really important. But I don't have to, like, take care of it, you know. And so it was just for me, like, and, and I. It's easier for me to draw these analogies when I'm looking at the garden. And then I can reflect back into my own life and be like, oof. There are other areas of my life where I am disconnected. And I need to rethink how I can make that priority successful. Because making it a priority sometimes isn't enough. Sometimes you have to rework how you're connecting with a certain element of your life. And I just love it so much that it's worth it for me to like, get back to that play state too. So I always map my garden out. I have like, all these, like, sophisticated tools now to do it. And every single time I like the universe, God's like, you know, just for. Makes me forget my list and I end up at the nursery and I come home with like, things I never had on the list. And I plant everything in different places than I thought I was going to plant it because that's fun for me. I'm like totally type B. I'm very creative. It's so much more fun for me to get in the space and just do what I'm in the mood to do. I mean, as, you know, as a mom, as an entrepreneur, like, when do you get to just like, do what you're in the mood to do in the moment that you're going to do it? You know, I mean, you don't. You don't get to pursue impulses. And so it's to me, that is just always a reminder that I get to go out and co create with nature in a way that fills me up, that contributes ecologically, and it just trickles down from there.
- [27:17]
A
I want to talk about some of the, like, nitty gritty, because there was a lot of things I learned about that I didn't know. Even though I've been gardening for A bit here and read a lot of gardening books. Like, I learned about the pollinator border. I learned about the poker planting. Oh, yeah. Certainly the trellises. I'm the hoops and the nets. So there's a lot that you learn about in specific. I actually learned why my soil blocks don't work a lot of the time. Jenny, this is amazing. Watering them the wrong way. So I learned a lot of specific things. But there are these overarching themes and those parallels in the garden. I don't know. I'm like, am I reading too much into this? Because I go out there and I'm like, this is horrendous. This is nothing that. That I hoped that it would be. I wanted it to look like John Deloney's garden. And it looks like a wild field of. With no. No crops. Zero crops. I mean, we got, like, two cucumbers. Two. You know, I mean, we spent days planting this thing.
- [28:11]
B
Wait, but what zone are you in?
- [28:13]
A
I think six or something. Six B. I don't totally know.
- [28:17]
B
I have ideas for you. I have ideas for you.
- [28:20]
A
Possibly. That's the problem.
- [28:21]
B
I'm coming out next spring story, so.
- [28:24]
A
But then I start to think, well, what do the bees think? What do the monarchs think when they fly through here? And. And so it made me think of, like, my own life, where I'm like, okay, often I feel like my life looks horrendous. I'm going to get emotional. You know, you feel like that or like, you know, our kids, like, our oldest is graduating and you have regrets, you know, like, or. Or maybe it's not even regret. That's just like, this looked messier than I wish it would have. It wasn't like, as. I don't know, like, organized or it wasn't like John Deloney's garden.
- [29:05]
B
I totally know what you mean.
- [29:07]
A
Kind of wild mess of life for a lot of different reasons. And I think by going out in the garden, I'm like. But if I look at it from the perspective of all the life that's here, like, maybe my kids look at it different.
- [29:21]
B
Totally. So I have this story. I don't want to continue to make you cry. I have two stories, and we'll see if the second one needs to be said. But I witnessed once at a coffee shop, a mom walk in with her two boys, and they were really little, and they looked very normal and. Normal. Typical. Just average people. And one of the little boys is tugging on her sleeve, and she picks him up. He's probably two and a half And I see her pick him up and, like, turn her head to allow space for him to put his head on her shoulder. And I see that half of her face is scarred. Like, it looks like it's been burned. And then the. And I'm just witnessing this from a distance. And the little boy lifts his head up and looks at her and he grabs her by the cheeks, like everyone's kids have done this. And he says, I love you, Mama. I love you, Mama. And he's giving her kisses on her face. And I'm thinking that child looks at his mother with nothing but love and adoration. And it's probably a lot different than what she looks at in the mirror. Just knowing as a woman, like, we all have some. You know, no matter how healed you are with your appearance, we've all got some sort of vanity. But it kind of reminds me of that for sure, where it's like, when you're in. You can't see the forest for the trees, you know, when you're, like, in the thick of it. And. And. But I also think it's really a beautiful part of parenthood that we get met with these milestones that make us pause and reflect and get emotional. And.
- [30:51]
A
Yeah.
- [30:52]
B
There are so many areas in my life where I feel the same. Where I'm like, I. Am I even doing any of this? Right. This feels messy. It's like, way harder than I thought it was going to be. It's decisions I never thought I was going to have to make. And, yeah, I feel you on that. But I also. I don't think you're reading too much into it with the garden. I think that's part of what's so incredible about nature in general. And that's what about. I think being a gardener that's so interesting is, like you. I always use this word, co creating. But like, you are imposing upon the system in some sort of a way, whether it's successful or not.
- [31:33]
A
Yeah.
- [31:33]
B
And I think that it yields so much, like, getting to it just. It's just. It's like a mirror back to you. And so I think thinking deeply into what you're doing in the world is really important and the outcome of it. And if it's reflected to you through a garden bed or through raising your children or through the way you walk through the world, I think we're all better off for getting to pause and reflect because there are a lot of talk about horrendous things that we see in the world. And it's like, man, I don't want to walk through my life with disdain or anger or, I don't know, any of that. So being able to sort of purify your heart just by being out there and reflecting, I think is important.
- [32:21]
A
There's just a lot of parallels out there. Like, that was nothing that I was ever expecting. Like you're expecting a sugar snap pee.
- [32:27]
B
Yeah. And instead, you know, and instead you're. Yeah.
- [32:31]
A
Like, this doesn't look like how I wanted it to look, but it's still good.
- [32:35]
B
Absolutely.
- [32:36]
A
And I Still teeming with life.
- [32:39]
B
Absolutely. I think that's beautiful. I think that's so beautiful. Yeah. I love it. I actually wonder too, like, if what kind of a message you would receive if it all went according to plan, would that. Would it be missed, you know?
- [32:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. It just a reminder that success can look a lot of different ways and that there's a lot of beauty even when it doesn't look like how we were expecting it to look. And then you talk about how that anyone can garden. Do it. Start it right now. There's no better time than now. No matter where you live or how big your garden is, there's a place for you to come alive. This is soul work. It is the antidote to the frenzied and frazzled, to the empty vaults of a full calendar. Bankrupt, of course. Quality time. We are so plagued by the trappings of futures that may never come to be that we forget about the today that's right in front of us. So the garden also brings us into the present. Promises of escaping from the digital world. I mean, they. There's a lot there. There's a lot there, you know, that you packed into this gardening book.
- [33:38]
B
Yeah, well, I wanted it to be enjoyable to read, I guess. And I had read. I've read so many gardening books and cookbooks, and there is. I was like, you know, what if. If this. What if this is my one shot to write a book? I'm gonna lay it on the line. I'm gonna put my soul out there and I'm gonna say what I think needs to be said so that when my children read this book, in the very least, if that's the only person that reads, it's like it connects on a level that's different. Martha Stewart's written 10,000 gardening books that are all totally brilliant. And if you just want brass tacks, like, she's got it for you. But I'm going to weave the beauty into it to help you feel that resonance. I guess I wanted people to feel connected to me and to their experience. And I even had people write to me, strangers that were like, I didn't know anyone else felt this way about it. And I think that. That we sometimes need that allowing, you know, like, we're allowed to. To have really deep, beautiful feelings about grass and, and bees and cosmos and snap peas.
- [34:42]
A
Yeah, yeah. There is a depth to the book, for sure. I want to talk about some of the nitty gritty. You talk about how. How many opportunities do you have to do this? And I think about that a lot. I'm like, okay, well, I'm, you know, in my 40s, so how many more years? I mean, you say the garden gives us, in most cases, depending on where you live, one shot a year to lean into its offerings. So there's a time element here. Okay, so talking about those specifics, and that's in the book as well, I want to hit a couple of them. You said think of the garden as an extension of your home. Just another room. It's sitting outside. There's the outside room. So what are you going to do out there? I thought the idea of a pollinator border is incredible. Can we talk about pollinator border and trap crops?
- [35:26]
B
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So pollinator borders. I learned this. I don't even remember where now at this point. And I actually feel like maybe it was down at South Hall. Like a few years ago I came to Tennessee and I visited this amazing estate. But anyways, pollinator borders are a way to incorporate, like, sort of in nature without any intervention. You'll see like, hedgerows, right? Like big swaths of native plants or full meadows. And it's that biodiversity. But also it's like the mass of pollinator plants together that draw in so much life. So when we use the border spaces in our gardens, within or without the garden itself, to plant pollinator heavy plants, it really draws the good bugs in and helps them circulate throughout the garden, which I think a lot of veggie gardeners aren't always thinking of. They're just thinking veg heavy. Like, I just want food. And it's like, well, we need the bees and the butterflies and everybody to come in. So these pollinator borders, and that tends to be something in a lot of my designs that's probably pretty consistent, is a place for it to be a little bit more wild, a little more colorful. You can put your cut flowers a little bit more cottagey. But it's, it's from like an ecology perspective, it's really beneficial for the garden. So I Sprinkle flowers, like, throughout my beds as well. But I have really heavy borders, always in some fashion with a lot of perennials. So plants that will just stay there and not be disturbed, they'll just continue to bloom year after year. And then pollinator heavy plants. And then it is similar, and you can design it however you want, but trap plants. So it plays into sort of a larger principle. And you mentioned that too, which is companion planting. And people are really stressed about companion planting because it feels like rules. And I love to break rules. I don't know why I never knew this about myself until I started gardening, because I always thought I was, like, such a rule follower. And apparently I am not a real follower. So I will break every single rule until I realize that it really is a rule. So. But companion planting comes multifold. So it's basically arranging your plants in a way that allows the plants to thrive with each other. So certain plants do well with other plants because they will draw in beneficial insects or repel bad insects. So they really, like, need each other. And we see this in nature in other ways too.
- [37:56]
A
So.
- [37:57]
B
So I. Right now, I don't know when the episode's gonna air, but it's early September and goldenrod is all over Tennessee. I'm obsessed with this plant. I develop these obsessions with plants. And so I do all these crazy deep dives and I make all these crazy things, and it just like, imprinted on my soul this year, and. And that's like an episode for another day. But I go out and I'm studying goldenrod, and I realize that what grows incomparable companion with goldenrod is in nature is ragweed. And everybody thinks they're allergic to goldenrod, but they're not. They're allergic to ragweed and ragweed. And do you know what helps you manage a histamine load? Like your allergic response to ragweed? Goldenrod. So this happens a lot where, like, you'll find poison ivy out in nature. And next to it will be a plant that if you rub it on the poison ivy, will take out the rash. So this happens in nature all over where they grow together. It's like the antidote to the. It's like the cure for the thing. So in the garden, we replicate this. So, for example, marigold has a really strong scent that will repel a lot of bugs. So we plant that with things like tomatoes that get those tomato hornworms. So we want the marigold to push away all of the hornworm moths and, you know, butterflies so that they don't lay their eggs and have them hatch. That's the concept. Trap plants, however, it's just a version of companion planting where you're choosing a plant and placing it somewhere to be a good companion. Nasturtium is one of my favorites, my favorite plant in general. But nasturtium is a trap plant for aphids. So if you know aphids are going to come, aphids love kale. For example, I will put a ton of nasturtium around the kale, and if you can get your nasturtium in when it's more mature than the kale plant, the aphids will come, attack your nasturtium and leave your kale alone. So that's a trap plant. So these just fun parts of nature, I feel like, are just really brilliant. I mean, I honestly think the best gardeners are the ones that barely have to be out there. You know, it's. It's like they barely even have to intervene because they've set everything up in a way that mimics nature. That's so there's such a beautiful symbiosis. So that's just one of the ways to do it. And in the book I do describe my poker planting method, which takes all this into account and helps you sort of wrap your head around like how to prioritize what to grow and then where to place it and what to put next to it and all that.
- [40:32]
A
All the nitty gritty is there. It's called kitchen garden living. You're going to learn about irrigation, raised beds versus in ground beds, pathways, fun stuff like little fairy doors, poker planting, how to prioritize what you really want to prioritize the number of plants needed per person. Garden companions As a mom, one of the most important things I can do is stay grounded in God's word and help my kids do the same. That's why I am excited to tell you about something brand new. The NIV Application Bible from Zondervan Bibles. This Bible is packed with thousands of study notes drawn from the best selling NIV Application Commentary series. And it's not just about what scripture meant. It's about what it means for your life right now. You'll find original meaning notes to understand the biblical text in its historical context and application notes that show how those truths apply to your everyday life. Every book of the Bible includes introductions with modern insight plus character of God articles, questions for reflection, and vibrant full color pages that make reading feel alive. If you've ever felt stuck or unsure where to start, this Bible gives you a fresh, accessible way to dive in and grow. Visit nivapplicationbible.com to learn more. That's nivapplicationbible.com the other day my lamp broke. It's my bedside lamp and I use it to read late into the night because I'm always preparing for this podcast. It broke. It actually won't turn off unless I unplug it. And so I needed to find a new lamp for my bedside and my favorite place to go of all places to go is Wayfair. Wayfair is a perfect place to go if your tableside lamp breaks, but it's also the perfect place to kick off your back to school and fall season prep Everything comes so fast and they have an amazing selection of things. From cozy bedding and linens to storage solutions for every room, they always have you covered. Plus, their huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find just what we need to transition smoothly into the fall. Besides lamps and linens, they even have playsets. We have the most incredible playset in our backyard that we got from Wayfair about six years ago and the kids still use it constantly. Whether you're refreshing your workspace with a new desk or making weeknight dinners a breeze with quality cookware, Wayfair literally has it all. And with free fast and hassle free delivery, even on big stuff like sofas and dining tables, there is no better time to shop, get organized, refreshed, and back into routine. For way less, head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's Wayfair. W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey friends, it's Ginny from 1000 Hours Outside. I'll be honest, when something's weighing on me, I've definitely turned to the group chat, the neighbor at the park, or even the nice woman I met in the TJ Maxx return line. And while those conversations can be sweet, helpful even, they are not therapy when it comes to deeper challenges. Things like anxiety, stress or relationship strain. You need someone who's actually trained to help. That's where better Help comes in. Their therapists are credentialed, licensed professionals who work according to a strict code of ethics, and they've been matching people with the right therapist for over 10 years. You fill out a short questionnaire and BetterHelp does the matching for you. They've served over 5 million people globally and have a 4.9 star rating from 1.7 million reviews. Sessions happen online on your schedule, and you can switch therapists anytime if it's not the right fit. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com 1000hours. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com/1000hours. Because not everyone is the one, but your therapist should be. I feel like we do trap crap. It's very similar. This is our system. In the fall, we like to go to the apple orchards. They're all over in Michigan. And then in the fall, there's bees everywhere because they're, like, getting their last whatever. So there's a lot of bees at the apple orchards because there's, like, cider and apples. So it's like, you know, you take a bite or two of an apple, and then you set it just, like 10ft from you, and then all the bees go to that.
- [44:37]
B
It's like a dress. Girl. It is.
- [44:39]
A
Okay, I'm gonna start calling it that. All right. Like, if you want to learn about succession and rotation and the trellises and hoops and nets in the soil and vermila kolites. I don't even know what that is.
- [44:51]
B
Vermiculite. Yes.
- [44:52]
A
Yes. I'm like, we don't do that on our seedlings. So there was a lot in there about seedlings. How to protect your newly transplanted seedlings, how to pinch, how to use an ice cream scooper. I mean, there is. Or an ice scooper, not an ice cream scooper. A lot of very practical ideas woven in and out of the larger ideas about why this is really important, and especially today. You talked about making do, and I just read a book where the author had said something along the lines of, that's like, such a wonderful skill to have is to learn to make. To learn how to make do with what you have. And really, that's what I'm learning about in my garden. I was like, oh, well, there's no melons out here. Oh, there's no cucumber. There's not. There's none of the things. And you make do with what you have.
- [45:38]
B
Well, and the thing that's so crazy, too, is, like, if I only grew two cucumbers, like, I am making the banginest cucumber salad on the planet, you know, or we are gonna.
- [45:49]
A
They didn't eat it. Off the.
- [45:49]
B
Yeah, they're just like, oh, look at this.
- [45:50]
A
Found one.
- [45:52]
B
Yeah. But we also. I had a bunch of sweet pot potato this year. But, like, the sweet potato vines and leaves are edible, too. So it's like, if you grew no sweet potatoes, you could still eat the leaves kind of like spinach and. And make do. But I was noticing when I had a smaller garden than I wanted, that I still had enough. So I would go out and get, like, a handful of cherry tomatoes and think, like, I just, you know, I Wish I had 70 tomato plants so I could. Can and like, you know, do all these things. But I had just enough for that meal. And I was always, like, in. There was so much reverence in that. Like, oh, my God, But I have enough. And then I'd go out the next day and there'd be, like, enough basil for just pesto for my pasta that night. And then I go the next day and there'd be enough lettuce just for, like, a salad for my husband and I. And I started noticing there was, like, just enough for what we needed right then. And that is kind of that just enoughness that I feel. Like the garden, if you really choose to. To see the good in it, you can find that element of, like, there's always going to be. It's going to provide something for you.
- [46:55]
A
Yeah. And like, I'm not even at that point because I don't even have enough. I'm like, there was like six sugar snap peas in total for the whole season. But it's just enough for your soul.
- [47:07]
B
Yes.
- [47:08]
A
It does something for you. It's not enough for your meal. It's not enough for your foraging basket because there's nothing in there. But it's enough for your soul. It's enough to bring you a lot of joy, even though you're like, I don't quite know what happened here. So there we go. And you talk about foraging. You have really fun prep. Okay, so there's practical gardening ideas, but then there's also practical family fun ideas, like making a foraging map with your family. You talk about, obviously, the nature connection with children and making things like flower arrangements and growing tea and salves, and you can even make pasta that has pressed flowers in it. I mean, these are incredible ideas. Like stock. There were so many ideas. Floral ice cubes. There was these, like, chicken stock trays.
- [47:52]
B
Yeah.
- [47:53]
A
Dressing out these cubes of chicken stock. I'm like, this is incredible.
- [47:57]
B
Well, my publisher told me no recipes, and I was like, can we add in some ideas that look like recipes.
- [48:07]
A
They're like, okay, then these garden bundles. The photos are phenomenal too. I'm going to tell you my favorite photos.
- [48:13]
B
Oh, okay.
- [48:15]
A
There is a photo on page 28 where it's like only the bottom part of you and you're wearing this dress and you're holding a baby.
- [48:24]
B
Oh.
- [48:24]
A
And like you just see the baby feet and baby legs and like in one arm and then the other arm you're holding a basket of produce. I've never baby do.
- [48:34]
B
Oh, yeah, he's big now. You're so sweet.
- [48:39]
A
I don't have either of those. I don't have the basket of harvest or the baby legs.
- [48:43]
B
Maybe by the time you have a grand child, we'll get that garden going.
- [48:46]
A
There we go. Okay. I loved a picture on page 17. This is a picture of you. Just you. I mean, they're real. Like, what?
- [48:56]
B
How do you even have this?
- [48:57]
A
You're wearing like this cool hat and like there's these corn stalks behind you. Just like the depth of it. I mean they're phenomenal. Okay. They're so sweet. And then page 91. Oh my, oh my. Is page 91 stunning? It is. This field of dahlias. What a photo. How did you even do this?
- [49:16]
B
Oh, my goodness. Well, here's the thing. I've been working with someone forever and I mean, this isn't a business episode or anything, but like, there have been so many years of my career where I just was barely scraping by and my husband and I were like, is this making sense? So I got really crafty and I hired this beautiful and super lovely wedding photographer to help me with my, like, blog. And then she stayed with me for years and I begged my publisher also and her to do the photos. So she knew me very well and I just loved her style and I wanted it to be beautiful and sort of artistic and I, I did. I had, I. I wrote every single line of every word, every caption. I arranged all the photos in the book. They let me be really heavy handed with it, which was really cool and have a lot of say with the design and everything. So I'm very grateful.
- [50:03]
A
Grateful.
- [50:03]
B
But yeah, it was. The garden photographed in this book is in. It was like, oh my gosh. I mean, less than a thousand square feet of space. I had like, that's like a suburban backyard little garden. So it's, you know, a. The power of, you know, good angles, which is how I got only, you know, one chin in all my photos. But also how you get all that beautiful dimension.
- [50:25]
A
It's Stunning. I mean, even just the photo with the tomatoes at like, they're not quite right. But then you see the nasturtium leave. I'm leaf. I'm like, they're stunning. The pictures are stunning. It is so well done. You said this is a big sentence. All the best people I knew growing up were deeply in touch with nature. Give us a little more. I mean, that's quite the statement. All the best people I knew growing up were deeply in touch with nature.
- [50:53]
B
So I grew up in a community of very humble, very blue collar people. So, you know, my. My parents divorced when I was young. I don't want to, like, get into it too much, but they were all, I guess I want to call it cow cowboy culture. Like, my dad would go pack in the back country and take people on horseback, you know, into the wilderness. And my mom was like, you know, a Dutch oven cook. And they did these things like in their free time. But they. I was surrounded by the. I'm an only child, so I was always just like with the adults. Was surrounded by all of these people who dedicated their lives to pursuing nature, like being outside and interfacing with their form of nature. So that's like sleeping out under the stars and eating, you know, eating from the campfire and hunting and fishing and even less gardening, but more just like very, very humble, living well within their means. And we'd go to these rodeos. Bishop Mule Days was like a big rodeo we went to every year. So it's like all mules at the rodeo. My parents are big meal people. And you like, camp. You just camp. And this is my nightmare as a child. This is my nightmare.
- [52:04]
A
Wait, listen, listen, listen. I definitely think these should be books or songs. And so the options are the hillbilly in high heels. And my parents are big mule people.
- [52:16]
B
They're also physically big, so. Oh, they're big meal people, but they're also big meal people.
- [52:25]
A
Like, that's a type of mule like you. It could also be like, my parents are small. Small mule people.
- [52:30]
B
Yeah, they're small and big meal people. It is funny. Like, it's crazy. There's their characters.
- [52:37]
A
But.
- [52:38]
B
So I grew up with all of like the. Our community were like, big agriculture, blue collar, like working with horses, just living outside in nature as. As often as possible. And my stepdad worked for Yosemite national park for like, I don't know, 40 years or something. He retired, like, with honors, basically. He was incredible and he could have done so many things with his life, but he really loved to Literally like wake up and drive through the forest. Forest and be outside every day in a place that he loved. And, and he, it was just so. All of the people around me were very much like this where they were just thoughtful and they spent a lot of time thinking about their lives and, and, and as an adult, you see, like they use that to overcome a lot of hardship and a lot of trauma, but just, I don't know, I can think of a dozen people that since I was a baby child were, they're just, they're, they're wise, they're content, they're humble, they overcome things, they're thoughtful, they, you know, these are people that you would see at the grocery store and think are living in poverty. Maybe like they don't look fancy, but they're kind and they show up for their community and they're, they'll beat you at Scrabble every single day of the week. They're ridiculously intelligent, they're self taught and they're just, just they, they're choosing the life. They're choosing to live this very humble, beautiful life in nature. So that was just the example that I was blessed to have. And I, I enjoy. I think everyone has gotten like a giggle out of the fact that I've like rejected it for so long. Like it was just well known among everybody, you know, like I'm, I'm at Mule days, the rodeo, and I'm like in a gingham dress, like, like pouting, you know. And now what I would give to like camp at the rodeo with nothing to do. So.
- [54:35]
A
Wow, that's a really powerful statement. And it made me think about. Because I'm sure that you are envisioning actual specific people. All the best people I knew growing up were deeply in touch with nature. And then you're like, well, would anybody picture me like when they think as the, you know, as an adult in their life when they're like that person comes through my mind when I think about the best people I knew growing up and you say witnessing an adult in your life be in love with something sets a good, it says typically sets a good example. But I think I would take out the word typically. I'm like editing your book.
- [55:09]
B
Get you in on the edit girl.
- [55:11]
A
I do think it's a big deal.
- [55:13]
B
Well, here's the thing.
- [55:13]
A
I don't think it happens that often.
- [55:15]
B
Well, here's the. I guess I would contrast it and I maybe I spent too much time emphasizing how amazing these people are. I spent a lot of my life idolizing escaping from that. Okay. So I thought I needed to make a lot of money and dress really fancy and have my manicure. And I was, you know, I went. And maybe that's. I'm 38, so, like, I was born in 87. So, like, maybe it was also because, like, the generations that I grew up with and really, you know, the 80s and the 90s are really pushing, like, new money and wealth and whatever. But, like, I grew up thinking that success was gonna, like, look a certain way. And what I realized was that it's a feeling and that it is a depth of character and that it is. It's. It's a wisdom, like, and. And being able to just, like, rest easy in who you are and what you love and what you know to be true. Like, that's success, you know, not constantly striving to, like, carry a Louis Vuitton bag or. And. And, you know, if you. No shade. If you like that. But. So it was just an important lesson for me to learn and observe. But it A lot shifted for me when I started thinking, like, I would rather spend my day outside having a successful tomato patch than, like, going out and getting cocktails and having someone think my outfit's pretty, you know, so that was kind of. That's kind of the other side of that coin, which is like, I thought I was going to think the most successful people were these, like, fancy millionaires. And I really look back now and just think, like, that wasn't it.
- [56:46]
A
Wow. It's so good. It's so amazing how you captured all of it in this book with the gar. With the gorgeous photos. Gorgeous. It is a gorgeous book. It's called Kitchen Garden Living. You're also the founder of the Kitchen Garden Society and have the Garden Culture podcast where people can learn more. Bailey, what an honor to get this chance to talk with you again. Thank you so much for being here.
- [57:08]
B
Thank you, Jenny. Thank you for reading the book. I'm honored.
- [57:12]
A
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