← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 577: The Family Food Reset | Ali Miller, Naturally Nourished Kids
00:56:07
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- [00:01]
A
Fall is about to be in full swing and because it's already starting to get a little chilly in the mornings and evenings, I've been slowly but surely refreshing my wardrobe with pieces that actually work. Things I'll wear on repeat, not just once. That's where Quince comes in. They make it easy to stay warm, look polished and save money, all without sacrificing quality. Speaking of chillier temps, I'm absolutely loving the Mongolian cashmere gloves I recently got because my hands seem to always be cold and I can easily toss them in my purse or backpack just in case the weather changes quickly. I've also been eyeing their wool coats. They look totally designer but cost a fraction of the price. And their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They start at just $50 and are incredibly soft. What makes Quince different is how smart their model is. They partner directly with ethical top tier factories and cut out the middlemen so you get luxury quality clothing at half the price of similar brands. It's a wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. Honestly. I've even been browsing their bedding and travel bags lately. Quint's is turning into a one stop shop around here. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have a new friend with me today who's written several books but a new one that's coming out. It'll be out by the time this podcast goes live. It is called Naturally Nourished Kids and one of the authors because it's a co authored book. Ali Miller and also host of the Naturally Nourished podcast is here. Welcome Ally.
- [01:35]
B
Thank you. I'm so stoked for an empowering conversation.
- [01:38]
A
I love on your, on your on the COVID of the book. It's got everybody's letters after their names. You know it's like in your co host with Becky and she's also the she the co host of your podcast too. Co host, co author. Yes, is Becky. So she's got letters msrd, ld, you've got letters rd, ld, cde. So some of them overlap and then some of them don't. Give us your backstory. What are all of the letters? What are you passionate about?
- [02:03]
B
Sure. So I am a registered Dietitian. I actually first branded as a rogue dietitian because I was talking about lard and butter and grass fed steak and all the good things. But I practice functional integrative medicine. I went to Bastyr University, which is a naturopathic college outside of Seattle. So I kind of bridge both the allopathic conventional because I'm able to work as a cde, as a certified diabetes educator, with endocrinologists, cardiologists, you know, just GPs and regular physicians as well as specialists. But take an approach of using food as medicine and targeted nutrition therapy.
- [02:43]
A
How'd you get interested in it?
- [02:44]
B
Yes, so I got interested in it as a ballerina and I was really into the body as an instrument. Got really moved by the locavore movement and farmers markets. Was a vegetarian vegan, took a wrong dial. Diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis because I was damaging my gut with a lot of the food choices that I was consuming in that doctrine diet. And I had to really redefine my relationship with food when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and also had clinical anemia. And so I talk about that process in my book, the anti anxiety diet of Sometimes with diet we get too dogma or doctrine based and then we lose the signals and the feedback of our body. And so I always like to approach food as medicine with grace and allow people to understand that based on season, based on stress, based on so many variables, there's going to be things that work really well for you in one season. And then you might need to listen to that canary in the coal mine and shake it up. That might mean more phytocompounds and antioxidants. It might mean going a little bit more carnivore and higher meat. It might mean upping the carbs, lowering the carbs. And we have to eat whole real foods to begin with to be able to get that feedback. Because if we're eating hyper palatable chemically processed products, our body does not provide clear, intuitive eating signals.
- [04:07]
A
Ooh. I read a book called the Dorito Effect.
- [04:11]
B
Okay, Yes, I have as well.
- [04:13]
A
I learned a lot about that. That no one really talks about taste too much and that things are not bred for taste, they're bred for profit, like chickens. And it was pretty eye opening. It is really hard though, Ally. Like I read Dark Calories, which is by Dr. Kate Shanahan, which about seed oils made a lot of sense to me. A lot of graphs, a lot of studies, tons of research in there. It is so hard to stick with the things that you know. And it is really confusing to know what's the right path. I mean, you said in your book, and this is the new one that's coming out naturally nourished kids. The whole food based approach. I said it wrong. The whole food approach for balanced minds and bodies at every developmental stage. Yes, you say. Researchers at Cornell have discovered that we make more than 200. This is a wild number, Allie. 200 food related decisions daily.
- [05:04]
B
Yes.
- [05:05]
A
How are we. I mean, as a mom, you know, you got a job, you got these kids, you know, you're running to and fro. It's like, it seems very overwhelming.
- [05:14]
B
I think that the first choice that is the most important is starting to move closer to whole real foods and starting to. I've been calling them God foods, you know, foods that are growing the earth or had a mother. Because we have to say that now. Because now there's petri dish lab grown meats hitting the market. So we have to say having a mother, not just eyes anymore, that doesn't count. And so, you know, I think every time we look at what we are putting on the dinner table, what we are putting in our mouths, the first question is, is this a God food or is this an ultra processed product? And some foods will be a little bit difficult to discern. Maybe they might feel a little fringy. I like to always say, don't get stuck in perfection paralysis. This is a continu. So, you know, you will learn both with this book, things that you want to focus on for abundance. Oh, by just adding in these phytocomponds, I can reduce the oxidative stress which will help my child with concentration and focus and reduce inflammation. And then on the other end of the spectrum, oh, these are some things that we can reduce or remove or replace at the dinner table or in the pantry. And these are going to have equally empowering impact.
- [06:23]
A
So I like this. I mean, I like the simplicity of that. You say in the book, learn first to ask yourself, is this food? Mark Schatzker, who wrote the Dorito Effect, said something along the lines of, where does the taste come from? Like, is it coming from a lab or is it coming from the actual food? And when you said God foods, you know, growing from the earth. And that also includes all of the. What is hydroponics? Yes, hydroponics. Those are growing in water. So that, that's something that now can be considered organic. So let's say you're talking to a person who has some of the Knowledge and they really believe it. Like I'm like, I really understand. I can see where it's coming from. I see the history of it. I can see how the profit got intermingled and things kind of just rolled away. And so today I would like to make a change for my family. How often should I be going to the grocery store? It's like the, it's the nitty gritty parts that get away from me.
- [07:17]
B
Right. So there is when I always talk about stages of change. You know, there's the immediate, there's the proactive or preventative and then there's the big picture. Sustained emotional rewiring our triggers and habits.
- [07:29]
A
Okay, wait, I like this one more time. Immediate.
- [07:32]
B
So there's the immediate. That's the, like I'm gonna choose an apple versus a fig Newton. Right. Like I'm in the moment.
- [07:38]
A
Yeah. And so I think sometimes, like for me, I feel like maybe that's as far as I get.
- [07:43]
B
Sure, sure.
- [07:43]
A
You know, and what was number two?
- [07:45]
B
I said preventable or environmental shift? And so this is like the pantry clean out, the scheduling, the Sunday ritual of going to the farmer's market with the family, the planting in the garden. Right. So this is creating the tone, the environment to support whole real food consumption. And so we're getting stimulus. We have jobs to connect with the earth to harvest, to plant. We are shaking the hands of our ranchers and growers and creating real networking experiences of relationship with the, the hand are fueling and feeding and nourishing us. And then that last one though is the rewiring our reward systems of, you know, I had a hard day, I want this or I'm coming from a burned out void. And what's going to fill that void? What's that dopamine fix? How do I feel to provide an indulgence for myself? And I think, you know, when we look to foods that give us good feedback and we're in tuned with our bodies, we're not numb. When you get into thrive mode, you never want to slip back because that doesn't feel good. And you have a distinct variable of oh, when I eat this, my joints hurt or I have loose stool or for a kiddo, we can for sure see the blood sugar roller coaster of the spike and the crash and the hangry and the irritability and big feelings that they aren't able to manage because of that dysglycemia. And so when we start to identify the impact of food and we can connect with that feedback and that's the Deep dive work of rewriting patterns and really looking to create organic cravings for whole, real nourishing foods. So that when we had a hard day, we're craving that rib eye and we start to salivate thinking about, ooh, you know, there's actually a compound in red meat called anandamide, and it is a cannabinoid like compound that helps to give a bliss factor in the brain. And so, you know, we can help once we can make that connection. And I mean, we've all had a juicy ribeye. I'm sure a lot of people are like, oh, that is good. And so, you know, when we start to make those connections, chocolate, theobroma, so cacao with nuts, you know, can be a really good snack at that time of high stress demand. And so when we start to nourish and make those connections, we can then start to organically crave and desire. And I think that's where we really lock in. And that's the goal to establish with our children as early as possible so they can feel empowered and not victimized or ostracized by a food as medicine lifestyle.
- [10:12]
A
It is really interesting, Allie. I think that that explains a lot that if you read the book, whatever the book is, read your book and you're like, okay, I understand. So like today I am not going to choose this, I'm going to choose that this better choice. But if you don't necessarily have the environmental structure, it might only last three days or might only last five days, or it might be like, okay, I've taken a step forward and I've stayed there, but I, but I haven't gone all of the way. And so I, I think it's a really good, I guess, window into the fact that even though that question is simple, ask yourself, is this food? The environment that, that we're in is tricky. So a book like yours helps. Your book has got recipes in there, it's got a lot of information. So you're working with diabetics and you talk about some statistics in this new book called Naturally nourished Kids, about how children are suffering from diseases that were only used to only be diagnosed in adults. Can you talk about that?
- [11:11]
B
Yeah. So even in my length of career as a certified diabetes educator, we have rebranded or re termed what used to be called adult onset diabetes as now type 2 diabetes. And so, you know, I was licensed and credentialed in 2009 and this has happened just in that window of time. And that's because we are now seeing diagnoses of type 2 diabetes as early as age 4. This is often exacerbated by high fructose corn syrup or concentrates of fructose, which of course we're now seeing in formula. So very early on, we're starting to expose children to stressors to their liver. We're seeing also non alcoholic fatty liver in children due to that same compound. And we really need to take a pivot because we're seeing fertility plummet. We're seeing one in five children dealing with a mental health disorder or a learning disability. We are seeing children not looking to outlive the life capacity of their parents for the first time ever in generations. And, you know, I think that that really says there is something environmental, there is something dietary that is really stressing our mitochondria, our energy factories of our cells. And we need to take a pivot and start to figure out some serious solutions.
- [12:29]
A
Okay, So I really, I'm asking. I'm going to ask you about the practicalities just because this is just a personal situation for me. I read the books. I believe the books. You know, in our home we have coconut oil and olive oil. You know, but then you're out and about, you're running around, you're giving friends over. So it's. It becomes tricky. There's all of these nuances of life.
- [12:47]
B
Yes.
- [12:48]
A
So there has to be a step between immediate, Like I can get through today and I'm shaking the hand of my farmer.
- [12:57]
B
Mm.
- [12:58]
A
And I think that's the part where it's a little trickier to bridge the gap. Like you don't. There's. It seems like it should be so easy. Right. It's like it's three meals, but then you've got all these kids and some kids are home and some kids are not. And then their friends come over and then they're hungry after school. And it is so much more overwhelming than it seems like it should be. So, like, what do you do?
- [13:19]
B
So I think one of the first things for everyone to do is to start making their kitchen a desirable place for the entire household. I think a lot of us, and honestly, that's how we connected. Right. I forget what piece came out basically saying that women returning to the kitchen was a back step for feminism.
- [13:34]
A
Oh my goodness, that was such an awful article.
- [13:36]
B
Right.
- [13:37]
A
It was so propagandist and.
- [13:40]
B
But I think that that's a big move. You know, in the 50s, 60s, when we started to make more ultra processed foods, we really championed the idea that a woman shouldn't spend her time in the kitchen, cooking for her family, when you could buy a frozen meal or a canned thing, and that's just become.
- [13:56]
A
More and more outsourced and so you could watch tv. Yeah, that was the whole package. That was the whole marketing scheme.
- [14:03]
B
Yeah.
- [14:03]
A
And I was like, that article from Self was so. It's so echoed the articles from the 50s and 60s about how the homemaking is drudgery, which is not true. Right. It's like all that working with the hands. Okay. But you keep going, like, make the kitchen. How do you make the kitchen a desirable place?
- [14:20]
B
So, I mean, right. Even literally, like, day by day, again in the moment, as well as preventative. So preventative is thinking of hanging some plants, making it a cheerful place, having your children do focused work at the island. Make the hearth of the household a desirable landing. Place where those important conversations live, where we connect with each other. And we don't dread the dishes in the sink with disdain or look at the fridge with a deep gasp of ugh, I have to cook again for my family. Because just like we model eating Brussels sprouts or broccoli in front of our children, we're modeling the behavior of desire to nourish our household or not. And I think that that is very important to find peace in the present and to release and find empowerment and joy in the culinary process. And that is going to make a huge change. Getting mamas and papas, getting. Getting parents back in the kitchen and nourishing their children versus outsourcing to food scientists, essentially. And, you know, I think a part of that is surrender and meal planning. So, you know, I meal plan with my husband and daughter.
- [15:22]
A
What was the first one you said?
- [15:23]
B
Surrender.
- [15:26]
A
That's what I thought you said.
- [15:28]
B
Yes.
- [15:29]
A
It's like surrender and meal planning.
- [15:31]
B
Yes.
- [15:31]
A
In the same sentence.
- [15:33]
B
Well, like finding peace in the present moment. Right. Like literally, like, we can. We can hold that nocebo effect. You know, I talk a lot about how negative thoughts can harm us, and they literally can drive a neurological impact. They can drive cortisol. It can be palpable energy that other household members feel. And I feel that that does transcend into the food. Not to get too woo. Uh, so surrendering and finding peace in the moment. Pop on Aretha Franklin, you know, play a record and laugh. Find joy, be jovial in your kitchen. Make it a space again that has desirable energy that your family wants to magnet towards. And then organically, you can get them involved in the preparation and the process. And when they do so, there will be a lot less Battles at the dinner table. There's a lot more excitement and engagement at mealtime and it feels a lot more communal. It feels a lot more healing and nourishing in the process. The meal planning part of it is absolutely essential because we are burned out, we're all overstimulated and honestly a lot of us are overfed yet malnourished because we're eating nutrient devoid, at least micro and antioxidant devoid foods that are a surplus of calories and provide us things that the body doesn't know what to do with. And so it's really important that with intention. You know, I think having a deep freeze is very helpful because if you're buying from your ranchers, you can buy in bulk to make it more affordable. And so the way that we go through it is on a Saturday, we lay out, we literally walk to the deep freeze, we start in the garage, we pop open the deep freeze and we say, okay, so I'm going to do something. I always suggest two to three meals a week to be a five to seven minute sear because no one can say they don't have time to do that. You know, when someone says I'm really busy, I say, have you ever seared a protein? Because it's just, I'm sorry, I hate to be harshly like that, but it's fact. Salmon skin on side, three and a half minutes, flip it three and a half minutes in tallow. I love fawn's chili garlic tallow. Right. Literally we're talking seven minutes of cook time and you have a nourishing protein. Same thing can be done with any form of a steak or a pork chop. Now bone in skin on chicken breasts or thighs require finishing in the oven, but generally speaking that's hands off time. And so I always look for a couple quick pan sear with a sheet roast of veggies where I'm not following a recipe. It's literally three, four ingredients. It's a flavor fat, it's a salt and maybe an herb or two. And so that could be roasted cauliflower with turmeric and black pepper and coarse salt. With that salmon that I mentioned, it takes five minutes to cut that cauliflower, 40 to roast it. But again, that's passive time. You know, you're not watching it through the oven type of thing. I also like a sear and finish in a slow cooker. I'm old school, I'm not the. I forget what those are even called the instant pot. I'm not an insta pot. Kind of gal. I like to smell and taste and, you know, look at my food for that 11 hours of the slow cook. But I love a slow cooker. So if I'm making the barbacoa tacos in here, which could be made with a beef shoulder, or if I'm making the warm incarnitas in the cookbook, that's a sear finish in the slow cook, start at 6:00am, you know, before the kids are up type of thing. And then I also will look at two grind options. So this could be as simple as like a taco bowl on a bed of lettuce or like a taco salad. Another household member who is an athlete might have some rice and beans with that or might use some siete chips or some masa chips with tallow. All of that could be appropriate. And then the other grind can be used in a meatball. Or for instance, we have our superfood chicken nuggets, which use an ancestral blend, a great way to get organs into the family. So two grinds, two sears, one slow cook is literally how I lay it out every single week. And I start with the protein and then we go into, okay, seasonal produce. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And we make a three tiered grocery list. You know, like this is our. I'm in a small rural, so we don't have a whole paycheck or these like fancy grocery stores. We go to our standard grocery store, but we go to the farmer's market and the farm stand for the majority of our seasonal produce. And then we get our staples, of course, like our apples and our strawberries that are organic, et cetera, from the grocer.
- [19:33]
A
Okay, well, you just laid it out. You just laid it out. So interesting. I don't even know. I mean, obviously I know what a seer is, but I don't know if I've ever even literally used the word seer in any conversation ever. Five to seven minutes for the sear.
- [19:47]
B
Yeah.
- [19:47]
A
I didn't know that there were flavored tallows.
- [19:49]
B
Yes, Fond regenerative makes them. They're fantastic. So they have this one. I mentioned the garlic chili infused high recommendation there.
- [19:58]
A
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- [23:33]
B
And then, you know, when you sear, we can take it a little further. Ginny. Once you sear, if you want to be fancy and you're like, okay, I've got this, I'm now in the flow state and I want to really amplify flavor. Once you remove your protein from searing, you know, there's the drippings of the meat and then you can deglaze the pan with bone broth. So you're adding nourishment, you're adding flavor, getting all that yummy umami browning effect and then that can easily be reduced into a glaze or into a sauce or turned into a gravy if you add heavy cream and a little bit of arrowroot or gelatin and you know that's leveled up. We try to provide with naturally nourished kids recipes throughout that capacity with even some mom hacks of like, hey, do sheet pan bacon on a Sunday and then you can use that bacon in the bison bacon meatloaf on Wednesday, you know, type of thing. But I think it's good to have variety of those, like date night at home where the whole family focuses. Hey, maybe we're going to play cards or we're going to play Clue and we're going to listen to records and we're going to cook for two hours and we're going to have fun doing it and we're going to taste flavors and play with acids and fats and talk about how food can be medicine in that process. Because I think that that imprint really has legs and I think that that will carry for generations if we can start to re imprint the power of whole real foods.
- [24:52]
A
I love the idea of Just making sure your kitchen is a place where people want to be. I've never considered that. Our kitchen has one. It's got an island, but the island has got the sink in it. So we're like, you can really only use one half of it. And it's tall, so I don't actually use that ever. Like, it's got our water, like, our water thing on it. If I were taller, it'd probably be a good space. But we really only have one counter. There's one counter. I think a lot of people just have one counter.
- [25:18]
C
Right.
- [25:18]
A
Where you can do stuff. But a lot of times it's got, like paperwork on it and, you know, coffee grinds and so that's a really interesting thought. I mean, like, right now there's like a half done puzzle on the kitchen table. And like, people don't, you know, throw away their. Like they're making their Legos and like all the little bags are still there. I like that. I just. That's a small, simple change, but something to really consider.
- [25:42]
B
Right. Like just putting fresh flowers on that table and tidying it up because it feels less chaotic, less frenetic. Right. And so it's design desirable. Then it feels peaceful. It feels like a place we want to be. And again, I just think that if then as parents, the kids are attracted to the kitchen, we don't feel like that's one more place to be. It's a place that we're able to engage with them. And I think that that's a really beautiful part of the evening timestamp.
- [26:06]
A
Yeah, I really did. Like, and because you talked about just throwing in the sheet pan veggies.
- [26:10]
B
Yeah.
- [26:10]
A
I mean, this picture is gorgeous. In the cookbook Naturally Nourished Kids, where you've got five different colors of veggies that go like almost like a rainbow across the pan. And it looks like it's beets, peppers, cauliflower, kale and cabbage.
- [26:25]
B
Red cabbage? Yes, red cabbage and cabbage chips. Cabbage chips will rock your socks. If you have not tried cabbage chips, basically the idea is to slice very thin. You can even use a food processor to shred. And then you coat with olive. I like olive oil. And cabbage chips. And then you roast at like 400 and you allow it to go past where you think you don't want it to be that soggy cooked. You want to let it crisp. And so you kind of jostle the pan, give it enough space. We wouldn't. We did not cook in that pan that way. We cooked in separate pans and Then arranged them for that at 11pm with all of our children's on the island. You know, total chaos as it is when you're writing a cookbook. But you know, the cabbage chips are crunchy, salty, sweeter than like a kale chip. They don't have as much bitter alkaloid profile and totally a fan favorite. And in that section, we talk about how to make vegetables taste good, which I think is super important. We go through this concept of root to fruit. So thinking of when you're. Because if you start to buy local, you're gonna be introduced to produce that you may not have had before, like kohlrabi and you know, these unique radishes and xyz and you're gonna say, I can't find a recipe for this. So you just have to think, how did it grow root to fruit? So if it's something that grew in the ground, so garlic, onions, beets, carrots, these are all roots, right? These are potatoes. These are going to need the longest time in the oven and are generally going to be roasted versus sauteed at the stove top. Right. So those are gonna go in the oven, need the longest cook time. And if you think about it, if you're sauteing onions and garlic, that's always the first thing to hit the pan. So also the most cook time. Then we go from the roots up to the stems. So this is things like asparagus or celery or chard stems. Fruits would be anything botanically holding a seed. So bell peppers. We even would think of the fruited parts of our cruciferous. So like our cauliflower, our broccoli. These tend to need about 30 minutes or so of roast time and can be done on the stovetop. And then final would be the greens and which really only need a simple braise. So if I'm making a stir fry, it's onions, garlic first, then the carrots will hit very shortly after. Then after some space of time, maybe seven, eight minutes, I'm going to add those bell peppers. Then I'll add in the spinach or the kale or the collard greens and a splash of broth to help to braise those greens down and create that deglazing of the pan to let all those flavors meld. Easy peasy, one pot. But that really can empower you to think of how long do I need to cook this and. And where does it go type of thing.
- [28:59]
A
Gosh, you know so much. Which would make sense because you're educating families, you've Got your podcast and you're educating families. So it would make sense that you would know all this. But it is interesting. Like when I read your book and you've got this section on. Because I really like roasted vegetables.
- [29:13]
B
Yes.
- [29:14]
A
I really. Beets is probably one of my, like, beets are. Beets are one of my favorite foods. I guess that's how you say that, right? Not beats is beets is one of my favorite foods. I really like beets. And so, you know, it's one of those things where you have to just like make sure that you do it. Like you have to go put it in the oven or you can boil. And I've done that before where you boil and then like a potato, right? And then the skin comes up. But I. This is gonna sound so stupid. So I'm like reading your book, you know, and because you got all these recipes in here, they naturally nourish kids. And it's like roasted vegetables five ways. And I was like, oh, that's cool. Like, you know, it's always good to have more ways to do something. And I didn't know, I'm just gonna say it, that you could roast some of the fruit ones.
- [29:57]
B
Sure, sure. Yeah.
- [29:58]
A
Like zucchini. I wouldn't have thought like while you, you know, you saute it in a pan with some good oil or whatever. But I didn't know that you could do that.
- [30:06]
B
And having a quality salt, a quality fat, and then like I said, one or two herbs or a dry seasoning is all you need to amplify the flavor and it helps. And I mentioned this in the book in the early part, the guide on buying Local. You know, everyone, if they've ever grown tomatoes in their garden, knows there's nothing like a fresh picked tomato off of the vine. And that smell of the tomato leaves, which I can still experience in my body now a couple months out. But you know, buying local is important and sustainably grown, of course, reduces pesticides. And we also get with more antioxidant when we aren't giving those herbicides and pesticides. So taste and toxicity will be impacted based on how we're sourcing.
- [30:54]
A
Wow. We did a CSA this year. A community supported agriculture. So we go on Wednesdays and get our box and it is cool. There's stuff in there that either I wouldn't normally eat or occasionally there is stuff that you're like, I don't even totally know what this is, but they send an email and let you know everything and then they have recipe ideas. But the root to fruit thing is really helpful because there are things I learned in this book that I was like, oh, it's. It is pretty easy to just throw something in the oven while you're doing something else. And so if you know that more things can go in the oven, then you realize that's really helpful. So you brought up bone broth earlier and I was so entertained, Ellie, because bone broth comes up so much in the book. Yes. I was like, wow, they are getting bone broth in everything. There was bone broth, hot cocoa. There was bone broth, queso. Queso, yes.
- [31:41]
B
And.
- [31:42]
A
And bone broth, popsicles. Three ways. Three ways. So talk to us. I mean, this is about healing the gut.
- [31:50]
B
Yes.
- [31:51]
A
I learned a long time ago how to make bone broth. We don't do it much. You know, I like, I'm like, I'm good at. What did you call it? I'm good at the immediate.
- [31:59]
B
Sure, sure, sure.
- [32:00]
A
Not good at the sustainable. Even though I know how to do all this stuff, you know, But I love it. If you got it and then it's made and you put it in your freezer, you can go grab it out. But I have never gone any further than just using it for like soup. Soup.
- [32:15]
B
So love it as a vehicle for soup as well. Absolutely works that way. And I, one of the tenants of naturally nourished kids is to try to get bone broth into your children three to four times a week and a probiotic rich food five times a week. The idea of both of those foods comes to the gut.
- [32:30]
A
Okay, one more time.
- [32:32]
B
Yes. Bone broth. Trying to get that four times a week. Three to four times a week. And then trying to get a probiotic rich root food four to five times a week. So, you know, I think probiotic rich foods might be a easier approach when we're opening up the world of dairy. Of course, because yogurt, cottage cheese, kefir, these can all be done as breakfast or a snack or added to a smoothie even. And we use like cottage cheese in a bunch of recipes in the book. Actually, fermented vegetables, of course, would be a great recommendation there. We make an awesome kimchi aioli which. Which might become everyone's favorite condiment ever. I love it. We do it with these crispy squash wedges that are crisped up with parmesan that we pack onto them before we roast. And it's just this awesome flavor combo of spicy, salty, crunchy. And so who needs a food scientist anyway? And so probiotic rich foods help to support Microbiome diversity. We have been learning so much in the last 20 years about the impact of the microbiome and the consequence of over prescribing antibiotics, the impact of gut sterility. And we're knowing now in literature, there's actually a research study called, and I might botch the name a little bit, but I believe it is are probiotics the solution to microplastics? Where it goes into the mechanisms of action of how probiotics can actually help on a gut blood barrier, protect us against microplastic exposure and aid in the fecal excretion. Because if you've heard of bioremediation, like in oil spills, we use mushrooms often to do so, or fungal networks, microbiome probiotic actually living viable bacteria in our gut can protect us against toxicity as well. So huge benefit of ensuring that we're getting probiotics, which also I will extend and say is nature's Prozac. So in the book the Anti Anxiety Diet, we talk about how probiotics in your gut help to make serotonin and gaba, which are the landing gears of our fight or flight stress system. And all of our kids, you know, of course spending time outside helps to keep them parasympathetic, helps them to stay grounded and to be less overstimulated, but they're still exposed to a lot. We're all being exposed to emf, we're all being exposed to screens in some capacity. And we need that anxiolytic mood boosting impact of probiotics. I believe very strongly the bone broth also works the gut, but in a different way. The bone broth focuses more on the gut integrity. And so we're looking at addressing leaky gut. And we're seeing unfortunately an uprise in asthma, child allergies. A lot of this associates to the GALT or the gut associated lymphatic tissue. And that's where 80% of the immune system resides. So when we're proactively giving bone broth, we are protecting the gut against damage that it can get from chlorine in our tap water, from abrasive compounds in processed foods and even in whole foods, some being reactive to gluten, soy and lecture lectins, et cetera. So I believe having that insurance of the bone broth is very favorable. And then in like the popsicles, we're even using the bone broth during times of cold and flu or viral season because it can serve as an electrolyte, a nourishing electrolyte at that. So you're getting sodium, potassium. We're also getting expectorant impact from broth, which basically means that we're thinning out mucus and phlegm. So when our kids are dealing with that gunk. Yeah. Or that chronic cough, or they're constantly blowing their nose the bone broth if they're sipping on it or doing one of the Popsicle recipes or the blueberry bone broth smoothie, that is actually going to help to break up that mucus and phlegm and help their body to get rid of that compound.
- [36:12]
A
I laughed because I actually didn't have that one written down.
- [36:17]
B
Right. I know.
- [36:17]
A
You just had the queso, the hot cocoa, the popsicles, three ways. And there's the smoothie. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It's one of those things, Allie. Like, well, first of all, do you ever step back and be like, gosh, I know so much.
- [36:34]
B
I don't know.
- [36:36]
A
I mean, just rattling all this stuff off and it's probably second nature to you at this point. But it is just so interesting because it is so different from what the mainstream family is doing. Like, the mainstream family is never having bone broth, like, zero times, you know?
- [36:53]
B
Right, right.
- [36:54]
A
I mean, the first time I made it with, like, the chicken carcass, I was like, what am I doing? You know? And then we went and got the chicken feet. I mean, I blame my midwife for all of it totally. But I mean, I. I didn't know one other person that had ever in their life done that. And obviously it's an. A historically normal thing to do. And I think I was really blown away because I realized that one chicken, and this is when our family was smaller, like, our kids were younger. I'm like, okay, I could take this chicken and I can roast it, and then that's gonna. And I can put the vegetables up in the carcass, I guess.
- [37:29]
B
Yes.
- [37:31]
A
All right, I'll use these words and you put the vegetables up, and I'm like, this makes a meal. But then there would be extra chicken left over because our kids were young. So then it would make, like, we would do chicken pot pie or chicken noodle soup, and it made a lot of food. I just remember being like, wow, this one chicken I roasted made three meals at, you know, when the kids were small. So no one, though, that I know is doing this on a regular basis. Like, if you say three to four times bone broth a week, I think a lot of people would be like, what?
- [38:02]
B
Right. Well, that goes back to the, like, perfection. Paralysis, Right. I'm going to give you the gold standard. What I have seen research supported and clinically supported, optimal and then, you know, getting it in once a month is better than not at all. And learning to make bone broth, we have a YouTube video, it's 20 something minutes where we show how to make both beef knuckle and chicken bone broth using a chicken carcass. And the idea really a part of the book not only is to eat whole real God foods, but it's also to eat traditional foods. And when I shifted from that doctrine of veganism and had to make peace with eating animals, I wanted to honor the whole animal. I wanted to make a sustainable choice and I wanted to of course choose a humanely raised animal. Now we would call it like regenerative. Regenerative agriculture of course would be the best or pasture raised. But I also knew very deeply that there is something on the nutrition to a snout to tail consumption. And so when we're talking about like you just did with the chicken broth, no parts were left behind. And that's the ancestral way to consume an animal. Right. You know, unfortunately, just as we've moved to processed foods, we've also moved away from preparing meat. A lot of individuals are very squeamish about touching a raw chicken in its whole form. They only want to see those tenders or breasts. They only want the grinds that they dump like into their pan. And you know, I think that when we look to the whole animal, for instance, when we eat tougher cuts of red meat, there's more glycine in that, there's glycine in the connective tissue. And glycine is a beautiful amino acid that helps to make glutathione, which is the master antioxidant. So that offsets oxidative stress and inflammation. Super important for the autistic ADHD kiddos, which we see more oxidative stress and lower antioxidant capacity. So big hit there. Glycine also though supports GABA production, which I mentioned earlier with probiotics. GABA is the primary inhibitory mellower outer, so it helps us to feel safe. It helps to release that steam trained valve of fight or flight surge. Glycine even helps in the neuromuscular system to like release the tension in our jaw, our necks or our shoulders. And you know, if you're just eating ground meats, you're not getting that glycine that you're getting in the stew meat, meat or in the bone and skin on shoulder that I mentioned with the barbacoa tacos or in that broth itself. So when we're cooking those bones, roasting those bones to then make broth, we're getting not only gelatin and collagen for that gut integrity and hair, skin, nails and all that good stuff, but we're getting glycine, we're getting a lot of therapeutic amino acids that can support. And that's why it is metabolic and mental wellness as the really premise of this book, because I think that that's a big area where we're in high crises.
- [40:44]
A
Isn't it interesting if you think back like 100 years, probably not even that long, and people were, you know, they would say, especially when people made like those victory gardens. And then before that, most people had one. I mean, they. Yes, you know, or your neighbor had one and you get, you know, your neighbor got 600 zucchinis. So they're going to give you some of their zucchinis. And all of that probably would have had some dirt on it. You know, we grab stuff from our garden, nobody even washes it off. And we don't get much from our garden because we're awful gardeners. But like, you know, you eat the radish right there and so you're probably getting all those probiotics. And then they didn't have the EMFs and they didn't have as many chemicals in the food, so people probably felt better.
- [41:28]
D
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- [42:13]
A
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C
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- [43:08]
B
See for yourself@botoxcosmetic.com this is a real good story about Bronx and his dad Ryan, Real United Airlines customers.
- [43:17]
C
We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Kathy and Ann.
- [43:23]
A
I got to sit in the driver's seat.
- [43:25]
B
I grew up in an aviation family.
- [43:26]
A
And seeing Bronx kind of reminded me.
- [43:28]
B
Of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United pilot. These small interactions can shape a kid's future.
- [43:35]
A
It felt like I was the captain.
- [43:37]
C
Allowing my son to see the flight deck will stick with us forever.
- [43:40]
B
That's how good leads the way. I mean, and eating some dirt, engaging with the soil, even through inhaling soil. We've seen studies. There's actually a bacteria vacae which is a natural antidepressant. We also know that glyphosate toxicity and exposure can be mediated in some sense with soil based organisms. So again, just like going back to offset the industrial toxins of what we've set ourselves up for is the best advice I can say is, you know, going back to these traditional whole real foods and back to God food.
- [44:15]
A
And I like that you're really specific about it. I mean I think someone could say, look, can we get three to four servings of bone broth in this week? And you have soups in here. The cookbook also has the cookbook portion of it because there's a lot of information in the beginning.
- [44:26]
B
Yeah.
- [44:27]
A
And then the cookbook portion has got ideas for ways that kids can help. And even at the beginning you have a kids can cook through the ages of what can the two to four year old do yes. Which is so wonderful, like a two year old. And there's a woman, I really like her, Dr. Michaeline Duclaf. And she has a book called Hunt, Gather Parent. And she talks so much about how toddlers, they want to help. And so you've got all sorts of ideas in here. What could the toddler do? What could the two year old do? They can snap the asparagus, they can scoop out the avocado, they can crack the eggs, they can set the table, they can, they can whisk, I mean really, really fantastic things. They can cut fruit with cookie cutters. But you go through the different ages, 2 to 4, 5 to 7, 8 to 9, 10 plus. And then you go through, in the whole book there's these sections where it said, well, here's how your kids can help for this one, here's how your kids can help for that one. So it's really hands on, really well done for family, for, for family, for people who have kids. And you're trying to do this right. Can you talk about then as they move into these older ages? I mean, I was, sometimes I'm like, well, what, how much should we teach them? Do you know what I'm saying? Or what books should they be reading before they head off into adulthood? I'm like a little late. I'm thinking about all these things. My midwife, I mean, I'm rambling, but let me, I'll bring it back in. My midwife, she does this thing with her kids. They've already graduated from high school. She has these two sons, they graduated from high school, she took them out to dinner and she made this little beautiful booklet of 50 things I hope you know. And it was really beautiful. It was like, I hope you know how to deal with quirky. Everything from I hope you know how to deal with quirky relatives to I hope you know, what are some things that you could do if you happen to be pretty sick but you have a big important meeting or you know, you still have to get through something tomorrow, you know, you know, all of these types of things. And when she told me about it, it was not that long ago, but I felt like I still had a lot of time, you know, Gosh, I still get. And then now our oldest is graduating this coming year and I was like, you know, like it, it snuck up on me.
- [46:29]
B
Sure, sure.
- [46:31]
A
I love that this book includes teens, like you say, ages and stages, food situations. You got ages 2 to 7, you got ages 8 to 13, and then you've got tweens and teens, especially from what you're seeing in terms of the overall health of the country. And then these teens are maybe within the next decade going to be parents themselves. What advice would you give for helping guide our close to adult, you know, heading into adulthood children? How should we guide them with their food choices?
- [47:02]
B
Well, I think that what is, I guess, overlooked at any age, and I'll make sure I hit the teens. But I think the first thing to note is that our kids at all ages are a lot more capable intellectually and curious than we often stop and give them credit for. So I think it's always important to start with that type of a tone of how can I educate my child and speak to them and converse with them versus tell at them? Everyone wants to be heard and understood. And this can impact as early as toddlerhood. When we're trying to get, you know, Johnny to eat XYZ of what's on the table. You know, we have to ask him, why? What is it that he does not like about that? And he can't say, yuck. He has to describe. We're going to break out descriptive words. We have a taste adventurer table in the book where we talk about the appearance, we talk about the texture, we talk about the flavor, and then we can sit and discuss and say, okay, well, I hear that you don't like the broccoli soggy. How about I try making it crispy? Like, I know you like the cauliflower. Would. Would that be something you'd be open to trying to. We have to literally ask them for their willingness and their engagement and their partnership in nourishment. And that happens. If you're listening to this and you have a teenager and you haven't started that early, you can still start it today. The benefits are you can still start that today. And it's important that we educate them on the impact of blood sugar dysregulation. I think beyond whole real foods, the blood sugar roller coaster is what sets up a gamut of preventable disease states. And when we are on those blood sugar peaks, we are distracted, we are squirrely, we can be hyperactive. When we're on the blood sugar crashes, we can be apathetic, we can feel flat, we can be angry or irritable. We know during blood sugar spikes that literally the neutrophils, which are a type of white blood cell, those neutrophils disengage. And so we have less of an immune army. It's no surprise that Halloween through the end of the Year is cold, flu and viral season because we're constantly stimulating our body with a glucose spike, which is disengaging our immunological defense system. That first line of defense is the white blood cells. So you know, we have to first have a really empowering conversation about, hey, I have a picture of a blood sugar roller coaster. And I would say all the way up through our 20s, we can literally take our finger through that with our child and talk to them about, hey, have you ever felt this? Oh, have you ever felt that? And then you'll see with the optimal glycemic balance, where we're taking a moderate carb and pairing it with a protein or fat, where there's sustained energy, where there's mood stability, where the immune system is optimized, where metabolically we're not in a lipogenesis body fat storage, we're actually in a regulatory mode. So I think blood sugar regulation is absolutely key and it's one of the most impactful, meaningful, real time changes. Like just starting to get your child to understand at any age what is a carb. We have a great section in the book called, I forget what it's called, some kind of pairings, like powerful pairings I think. And there's a whole page of selecting your whole food carbs and then there's a whole section of quality fats and proteins and then we put combinations together for you as suggestions. But then we want you to work with your child to come up with five combos. So even if your kid is going to college, it's like, hey dude, if you're going to grab a banana, make sure you grab, you put some peanut butter on it. Or hey, if you're going to look at a protein bar, let's make sure that that carb to protein ratio is more of a 1 to 1 vers is a 4 to 1 carb to protein and you're getting 46 grams of carbs with, you know, 7 grams of protein, I'd prefer 20 to 20 per se. And so talking about that blood sugar balance and these pairings will get them off of that blood sugar roller coaster and will help them to also connect with satiety and then have more intuitive food freedom. So, you know, we're getting back into a regulatory mode where we're able to listen to satiety and hunger cues better. And then I think, you know, when we're talking about suggestions and it's really working with that individual's palate likes and dislikes and involving them in the process. So you know, when we're talking about our teens, it's figuring out what is the biggest offender. How can we discuss the offensive components of it and what could be some reasonable swap out? So maybe the first thing is, hey, let's learn to make a smoothie from scratch. Where we're using a whey protein powder that has immunoglobulins and that we can add some antioxidant rich berries and literally just dairy milk. So three ingredients, super easy. But this is going to nourish your body differently than that beverage. And this is the why behind it. Having empowered, informed conversations is key. And then when they are littler, I would say all the way, maybe up through teens, giving them guided choice. And so by that we're never just saying, what do you want for dinner? Because we are in this secular world and we are seeing stimulus of a lot of ultra processed foods. And if your child says something like Mac and cheese, yes, you can do our cauliflower baked Mac. But it's better to ask them a guided question that you're able to listen to and actually give them that feedback they asked for. If you ask them what they want for dinner and then you say, well, we're not having that because that's not a good choice. You just belittled their opinion. You just didn't honor their voice. And so it's better to say, hey, we have salmon. I pulled also the pork chops out of the deep freeze. Both are slacked. Would you prefer salmon or pork chop tonight? Then at the dinner table, they're like, I picked this, I'm gonna consume more of it. I had will in this and I had autonomy in this. And I think that that is so important. Having active, engaging conversations and allowing choice. With a smaller kid, it might be, what piece of red produce do you want in your lunch? In this compartment of your container, Go pick one from the fridge. And they might pick an apple or they might pick raspberries, they might pick bell pepper. So again, guiding with choice until this becomes a normalized, internalized connection of whole real food nourishment.
- [52:59]
A
I'm entrenched with you. Well, you know, so many things.
- [53:04]
B
One more thing, I'll say no. So my daughter is nine and you know, she was born into our household of food is medicine. And so she is a zebra in the real world. She is, you know, very unique. And the way that we've been dealing with it and this may shift with age, but the way we've been approaching it is always, you know, whole real foods that's kind of a very stern, strict. I approach it kind of. Romans 12. 2. When I'm looking at my parenting philosophy, which is do not conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. We are different as a family. We aren't going to be the same as everyone else. Just like we have limitations and she doesn't have a screen. Just like we spend time out in nature, just like we intentionally nourish. It's okay for our kids at any age to understand and gain confidence in being different in this world. Because if we are trying to make them fit in all the time, there is going to be something that will hit us on the back end that is not going to serve our child's development, their character, and ultimately their outcomes. And so if we're really trying to make these spiritually led, balanced, nourished warriors out in this world, they have to have confidence in what they're doing. They have to have empowerment and knowledge in the why, and they have to have a process in the what, and they have to be okay with being.
- [54:26]
A
Different, which is a lot. But good. But good. I mean, those are the decisions and the conversations that you have. It's the 50 things I hope you know, right? Which is like, you may stand out in a. In a certain way, and here's the reasons why. Here's why you might want to consider. It's interesting. This is embarrassing, but I'm telling you anyways. So we. I read the Kate Shanahan book about dark calories, and we are not as much anymore, but we traveled quite a bit. Quite a bit. Because I'd speak at these conferences. So we're on the road a lot, you know, often it's like seven days. And, you know, so we're like, okay, sometimes you gotta stop and get food. So then we switched to Tropical Smoothie Cafe, which felt like a better second. You know, it's better than some fast food place. So, okay. So then I'm like, all right, well, they've got granola, like a Greek yogurt with granola. But then the granola probably has seed oil. So then you, like, run to another store, get the granola from there anyway. But here and there, the kids would get smoothies. They're like, nine bucks. It's a lot of money. Or eight bucks. And it's a lot of money for a drink. I'm like, you know, like, I grew up when things were way cheaper. So one of my kids was like, well, why don't we just Try making these at home. I was like, that's a great idea. So they. They made one. They're like, we like the Mango Magic or whatever they're called. And so we get all the ingredients. They're like, it doesn't taste the same, you know? So I was like, oh, interesting. So then we went to Tropical Smoothie Cafe and asked. We were like, look, we tried to make this at home. You're gonna know the answer. Cause you probably know. But I like, we try to make this at home. It doesn't taste the same. They're like, oh, well, if you look up at that board with all of the things that they offer, it's in the smallest writing that you could ever see. And it says something like, you're gonna know the word. I didn't even know it. Turbinado.
- [56:06]
B
Oh, sugar.
- [56:07]
A
It's sugar. Who even knows that word, right? You can hardly read it. And I've got good eyes. And. And they showed us how they took a huge, huge scoop, like you're making a cake, you know, and throw it in the mixer with that one smoothie. And I was shocked. And so I. I think it's so important, like, when you talk about making things at home, like, you. Even when you think you're making a better choice or a good choice, like, sometimes you just don't even really know. And so, of course, we're like, oh, that's why yours tastes the way it does, and ours at home tastes different.
- [56:41]
B
Because it's dessert. Because it's a. It's a milkshake. It's more than a smoothie. Yeah.
- [56:46]
A
It's like a whole cake. I'm like. I'm like, that is a huge scooper. It took up, like, a quarter of a cup or something. It was remarkably a lot. I was actually shocked and that they call it turbinado. I don't even know if that's how you pronounce it. And it's so small. I'm like, that's so tricky. So just, I guess a reminder, if you can do it at home.
- [57:07]
B
Yes.
- [57:07]
A
If you can make it from scratch and have your kitchen be an exciting place to be. And then you just gave, I mean, thing after thing, so many of the things you said. I was like. I wanted to be like, say it one more time. But the overall gist is that if you can cook real foods and that if you can add in these probiotics and these bone broths and all of the recipes are in here and naturally nourish kids. If you are wondering how are you going to get bone broth into your kids? You're just going to put in the queso. You're basically going to put in everything. You're going to put in pretty much smoothie. You're going to put everything.
- [57:39]
B
You're going to be deglazing that pan after your sear now that you're a searing master.
- [57:43]
A
Exactly, exactly. I. And for me, I just, I think because I'm the immediate person and I, you know, it's like, well, we've made some environmental changes, but, like, we're not to where we want to be or I would want to be. It's like, I just need to keep having these conversations, keep having the conversation, keep having the reminder, make the brown broth, do it again, do it with the kids, you know, and. And just keep at it. And then in time, things change and you get all of these ideas. I so appreciated all of the specific ideas you gave Ally. And I think for people like me, if you were listening and you were like, wait a minute, what in the GABA and the this and the that, people can just go to your podcast.
- [58:17]
B
Yeah.
- [58:18]
A
Naturally Nourished Podcast, and you can do a deep dive into more. You also have the Anti Anxiety diet. Yes, that sounds like a good book. And the Anti Anxiety Cookbook. And then this new one is for kids. Naturally Nourished kids. So, Allie, what an honor to get a chance to talk with you and to learn so much. The book is filled with phenomenal information, with the philosophy of food as medicine, talking about blood sugar balance, traditional foods, and a lot of the things that we talked about today. So people will learn so much and then have a book that's filled with recipes and gorgeous pictures.
- [58:50]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [58:51]
A
We always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [58:57]
B
Favorite memory from my childhood outside would be skiing in Colorado when I got to go on a dog sled and hold a baby husky on my lap for the whole ride. I bought my first dog I ever bought when I was 19 was a Husky. And I think that that was why it was a magical experience for me. So always. I'll always hold that one.
- [59:20]
A
No one has ever said that, Ally. They got to ride on a dog sled while holding a puppy. Oh, my goodness, what an experience. Those dogs are runners.
- [59:29]
B
Yes, they are. They chase the horizon. I learned that when I bought my husky and he escaped all the time.
- [59:36]
A
All the time. I know. We had him when we first got married. All the time. People were like, we have your dogs. And I'm like, okay. Yeah.
- [59:42]
B
One time, my husky turned himself into a police station when I was in college. I'm not kidding you. He showed up at the stairs of a police station. And when I got the call, they're like, ma', am, you're never gonna believe what happened.
- [59:52]
A
Your dog's here. I know. They would get out of everything. I mean, you like, you try every single thing. Yeah. They just went around. Wow. What an experience. Ally, what an honor to talk with you. Huge congrats on your new book. Thank you so much for being here.
- [60:04]
B
Thank you. My pleasure.
- [60:08]
C
Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.
- [60:19]
A
Oh, come on.
- [60:21]
C
They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.
- [60:30]
B
Whatever.
- [60:31]
C
You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.