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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 580: Family Doesn't Have to Be Perfect in Order to Be Strong | Jessica Smartt, Come On Home
01:03:26
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- [00:00]
Jessica Smart
Go all in on fall with Abercrombie Kids. Their newest drop of on trend outfits are ready for everything from the bus stop to family bonfires.
- [00:09]
Ginny Urch
And it wouldn't be fall without football.
- [00:12]
Jessica Smart
Gear up. The kids with officially licensed NFL tees and sweatshirts shop Abercrombie Kids this season in the app, online and in store.
- [00:28]
Ginny Urch
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have just read a fantastic book. It was so compelling. It drew me in from the very beginning. It's funny, it's practical. The author, it's her second time here. Jessica Smart. Welcome.
- [00:45]
Jessica Smart
Thank you. It is such an honor to be here and I just, I am so, just honestly proud of you and what you're doing. You are really making an impact on parents and I just, I love your courage and willingness to tackle things that might be hard, might be, you know, just things we haven't thought about before. But you do that in such a grace filled way and I'm just so thankful for what you do.
- [01:09]
Ginny Urch
Well, it's so nice of you. Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it. I love that we've connected. We talked before about your last book and the name is escaping me because you have memory making Mom.
- [01:21]
Jessica Smart
Yeah. Let Them Be Kids.
- [01:23]
Ginny Urch
Talked about Let Them Be Kids. That's what we talked about. And it's been a bit. We talked about Let Them Be Kids. And you have this new book out. It's called Come On. A Grace Filled Guide to Raising a Family who Loves and Likes each Other. And I just feel like you nailed it. I mean, it was so compelling from the very beginning and amusing and just funny and so relatable and so, so many practical ideas. So I would love for you to tell people about how you live on a family compound.
- [01:49]
Jessica Smart
Yes. Yeah, we. I said nobody's been even murdered besides a few aggressive roosters. But a couple years ago, my sister, who was a realtor, started looking for land. And to be honest, I was a little, I was the one that was like, no, I'm not doing this. And it was like a huge thing. There was even a fight, like on vacation.
- [02:09]
Ginny Urch
And like, didn't you say you, you like prayed against it? You're like, I did.
- [02:13]
Jessica Smart
I was like, made it go through. Yeah. But just was short sighted, I guess, in how cool it could be. So I have my sisters, they have kids and then my parents are across the way and it's just this little. I mean, it's everything like when you're up close in each other's space, there is conflict for sure. Like, I have to apologize. And, you know, there's. It's. Anytime you're, you know, around human beings, there's going to be tension. And so I don't want to paint it as like this. Oh, it's just amazing. You know, it. It's awesome. It is really awesome. And it's super cool for what the kids are able to do and how they can just run outside and go visit their grandparents. And, you know, they're. I don't even know where they are right now, to be honest with you. There's outside, thousands of hours outside. But, yeah, it really is just a huge blessing. And obviously everybody can't do that. And, you know, I recognize that. But my mom, years ago, like, never would have thought that she would be able to do this. And so she. I just. So much of this book is my heart in, like, what I learned from her and watching so many of the strong women in my family and how they poured into their families and it did reap rewards over time. It was hard. And it wasn't a one to one of like, oh, you do this, and out cranks this perfect, you know, kid or perfect life. But my mom worked so hard, and I feel like I see the fruits of what she did in this community that we have, you know, been able to enjoy.
- [03:39]
Ginny Urch
And so now you're on this family compound that you didn't really want to be on, and you left your neighbor, so that was like, a big deal. She was leaving too, though. But you leave this neighbor that you're really close with, and it's a big change. And you go to this family compound where there's conflict, but there's also people bringing you leftovers. So there's some pros and cons, but I just loved how relatable the book was. Jessica, so you're reading about this family compound and you're like, this is really compelling. Like, I think a lot of people were like, I would love if the kids could just run around with cousins. It almost reminds you of how it's supposed to be. I think parenting is so hard partially because we're so isolated and kids keep each other company and cousins are great to do that. You know, there's that little extra bond. So you're reading it and you're like, ah. And then you write this. And I was like, this is so relatable. You wrote. But maybe you're mad because you're like, well, I don't have that, or, you know, how did they even get there? Or the fact that it started before you. You know, there was roots that were laid down, seeds that were planted by your parents. And you wrote, maybe you're mad because all of this feels foreign, impossible. Family is so messy, so terribly specific, practical. You wonder if you have what it takes to break the cycle, to overcome the challenges in your circumstance, to give your kids a different legacy. And I was interested, Jessica, in how you knew. This is something that I talk about with my girlfriends. My main girlfriends have no sisters almost exclusively. And we talk about how when you have no sisters, that you're. And it's gonna sound bad, but you're kind of stuck with these girlfriends, which are great, but also volatile. Is a. There's a different level of commitment when it comes to family or you just see each other for holidays. It's sort of this thread that's woven through. So I have often felt like for the people that don't relate to that because they have sisters, they just don't relate. But you related. And I thought, well, how did you.
- [05:32]
Jessica Smart
Know as far as, like, how did I know what it would be like for somebody?
- [05:37]
Ginny Urch
Yeah.
- [05:38]
Jessica Smart
Yeah. So this is gonna maybe sound crazy, but as I've processed it, I feel like everybody has that thing. So here's the overarching goal is we want this happy family. We want our kids to come home. We want this cozy, happy life. Well, we're on earth and there's just hard things. It's never going to look like that. But I feel like every family, and this is me too, has something that is difficult and impeding that goal and we just assume that everybody else doesn't have that. Right. And so, like, for me, yes, I have a strong family foundation, but there are things about my life that are really difficult and that are impeding me from that goal. Like, I talk about in the book how, like, I have struggled with anxiety on and off and had periods where I was like, I'm no good to anyone in the world. I'm just like falling in this abyss of, you know, feeling super worried and stressed. My oldest son has life threatening food allergies. And so every, like, special family gathering is laced with this anxiety that's honestly justified. Like, he could inhale the wrong thing and have any. Like, we've been to the ER and had like four EpiPens. And so every gathering feels to me a little bit off. And for whatever reason, that's my thing. People have different things, right? Every person has something in their life that's making it challenging to reach that goal. And mine isn't the same as yours, but I believe that we all have things that help us towards that and things that are difficult that we have to work through. So I don't want to minimize what it's like to not have those good friendships, to not have sisters, to not have those roots. I had a really, like, I have a lot of close friends who. Who have. Are in that situation. And it's amazing. Like, honestly, I have a world of respect for people like that. I don't know what it is like, but I do know that if God's given you a calling, this is my personal belief, he will give you the ability to. To. He'll equip you to do that. And how that will happen, I don't know. I have friends who have, you know, surrogate, you know, grandparents that have kind of stepped in, whether they have broken relationships with their parents and in laws that there's been, you know, that. And I talk about the importance of finding friends and families that just love this. Not out of your kids, that it may not be the same thing, but at the same time, like, just to assume you have sisters doesn't mean that's going to be a healthy, amazing relationship.
- [07:58]
Ginny Urch
Right, Right.
- [07:59]
Jessica Smart
Sure. And what I've also noticed, Jeannie, is that a lot of times people who didn't have that, they're the ones that start it and they grow it. And I almost am jealous of that in some ways because it's like they didn't that family, so they had to go out and start it and build it. And my grandmother, who started this amazing family legacy, she was like on her own, no support system. Her husband was not. You know, I love my Poppy so much, but he was not like a. He wasn't around. And so she forged this path and started on her own. So, yeah, I mean, it's. It's super hard. I know that it's challenging, but I also know that if this is a vision that God's given you to build this strong family, he'll give you what you need and equip you to do that. That's just. That's what I have seen to be true.
- [08:47]
Ginny Urch
Yeah, I thought it was really empathetic. I was very impressed. You mean you talk to the single mom, you're talking to the one that's in the hard marriage. You're talking to the, you know, to the one that doesn't have the sisters. You're talking to the one that doesn't have the extended family. And I thought. I was really impressed with how relatable it was and how you were able to, like, weave that thread for all different kinds of families. So I just. I love the book so much. Okay, so you're on this family compound, but everybody is in these different situations, and it's newer. You know, you were living in a neighborhood with your friend Paige for a long time, so this is a newer thing. But you go through this whole set of ways that a family can become strong. What does a strong family need? And you say, it doesn't have to be perfect to be strong. So I'd love to talk about a couple of these. I would love to kick it off with this story, because one of my favorite songs is a song called Planting Trees by Andrew Peterson. That's, like, one of my very favorites. I think it's so deep. And so I had my daughters, they sing together. So I had my one daughter learn the guitar part. And it's very difficult. It's like the tuning is off, the timing is weird. And I wanted for them to sing it on this tour that we did with my friend Sarah Lally. And I hope she's listening because she hated singing it. And so it got like. It got. It was like acts from the show, but it was like my dream. I'm like, I love this song. I think they did it one of the nights or maybe two. But it's just talking about the fact that we plant for things we may not see. And so you say you don't have any certainties, but planting seeds is the best chance that you have. So can you talk about how to plant seeds when you don't feel like it? Because you talk about that, like, with your morning time, and you're like, I don't really feel like doing this. But you still make the choice to do it.
- [10:35]
Jessica Smart
Yeah. And that song, I. I love Andrew Peterson so much. He wrote it for his wife. And so I was saying, like, at the concert, he's like, here's this song that I wrote for my wife. And I'm thinking it's going to be this flowery, like, amazing. And it's about planting trees. And you're like, dude, this is not romantic at all. But I was like, maybe she felt really seen. Because so much of motherhood, like you just said, is doing this stuff behind the scenes that isn't immediate growth. And gardening is just the worst. Even, like gardening, you know, just for summer is so much work. But then, like a tree, you know, over years and years, and years. And that is what parenting is. So, honestly, I think, like, getting yourself out of this cultural mindset that we are in because it's such an instant gratification. You know, we are, we are expecting to do something and immediately feel the effects of that. And, you know, it's a, it's a, it's hard work. But I feel like what helps me is seeing these examples before me, like, of what my parents and my grandparents, and you see how they invested and poured so much into our family, and it wasn't an instant thing. So, you know, your, your question. How do you get the energy to do that? I mean, I, I, I really have to dig deep because I feel like our culture just spoils us. Like, anything we want is instantaneous. And so it really is a, like, whole mindset shift of, no, I'm going to force myself to play catan tonight because I believe in my heart that it will do something later on. And, you know, I, I think maybe we see little glimpses. I don't know if you feel this way, Ginny, but my oldest is now 16, and I think I've learned so much that so much of parenting is pouring in in those early years. And if you do that and you pour into them and give of yourself and in the later years, it's kind of fun to see, like, who they are and their gifts. And you're talking about your, your daughter singing, like, when you, when you do the work and put in the time. Now I can see like, oh, that was doing something, you know, and not again to try to say that it's perfect. But as my kids are older, you really do see the rewards of spending that time together, listening to them, building that relationship, staying connected. Like, they want to still talk to you when they get older. So I, I, that's kind of cool.
- [12:56]
Ginny Urch
And really late at night.
- [12:58]
Jessica Smart
Oh, my gosh. So late.
- [12:59]
Ginny Urch
It's such a funny, it's such a funny book. And it's so relatable. You had this one. You're like, you know, you're, and we have this because we've got teens. You know, they come in at 11:30 at night and they're like, would you like to talk about my power washing business?
- [13:12]
Jessica Smart
Yes, exactly. I was like, yes. I was just thinking I wanted to talk about that power washing business. Let's do it.
- [13:17]
Ginny Urch
This is the perfect time.
- [13:19]
Jessica Smart
Lord help us.
- [13:21]
Ginny Urch
So you say this. I mean, it is really empathetic and really relatable every single day. Because you guys do homeschool. We do home School, too. Every single day. I do not want to do morning time. I am never in the mood to do morning time. It feels like a waste. It is so long, an hour or more of my life when at least a hundred tasks are calling me. And I think that's a tricky part. It's like when you sit down to do stuff with your kids, you go, make the memories. You're like, oh, but I could be doing this and I could be doing that, and I have all these other things that are hanging out there, but you just give the charge. You say, do it. Do it when you're tired. Do it when you have cramps. Do it when you're depressed. Do it even if you've had a bad night of sleep, because you'll look back and you'll have the memory. So just really, really good reminders and just a reminder that other people feel the same way you do. Like, it's good to know that no one I the only. I like morning time because we do World watch news. So it's like cheating. Doesn't it be like cheating? You just are watching something.
- [14:24]
Jessica Smart
Hey, it counts. I love the tagline of your book. Then you're. Isn't it like, you're doing. If you're doing it at all, you're doing it right? I'm like, yes, that's exactly it. And, yeah, I mean, I think people think not to, like, go too far into the homeschooling thing because you can build a strong family either way. But people think, oh, you homeschool. You must be, like, a different breed of person who, like, is abnormally in love with your children. I'm like, no. Like, I. This summer has kind of been nice. Like, I have a little bit of a break, so I'm just like you. But you know that it's good. And you do see the rewards. You really do. Just maybe not in the exact moment, but there have been. Yeah, exactly. I want people to know, like, there have been so many times. I'm like, dear Lord, please give me the strength to listen to this. Someone tell me about their dream last night. I need you to give me strength, because I don't know if I can make it if you don't.
- [15:14]
Ginny Urch
Aw. So the Andrew Peterson song. People have to listen to it. It's called Planting Trees. And it's so beautiful. It's about many years from now. It's so many years from now, long after we are gone, the tree will spread its branches out and bless someone. It's like a beautiful. I love him My family's like, can you stop playing that song? This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey friends, It's Ginny from 1000 Hours Outside. I'll be honest, when something's weighing on me, I've definitely turned to the group chat, the neighbor at the park, or even the nice woman I met in the TJ Maxx return line. And while those conversations can be sweet, helpful even, they are not therapy when it comes to deeper challenges, things like anxiety, stress or relationship strain, you need someone who's actually trained to help. That's where betterhelp comes in. Their therapists are credentialed, licensed professionals who work according to a strict code of ethics, and they've been matching people with the right therapist for over 10 years. You fill out a short questionnaire and BetterHelp does the matching for you. They've served over 5 million people globally and have a 4.9 star rating from 1.7 million reviews. Sessions happen online on your schedule and you can switch therapists anytime. Not the right fit as the largest online therapy provider in the world, Better Help can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with Better Help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com 1000hours that's BetterHelp hlp.com 1000hours because not everyone is the one, but your therapist should be. Hey friends, it's ginny erst from 1000 hours. Outside it's 2025. Are you still feeding your kids like it's 2005? That's where nurture life comes in. They're a game changing me delivery service made just for babies and kids ages 10 months to 10 years and they are saving my sanity. Nurture Life meals are fresh, fully cooked and ready in just one minute. That means when my kids come home from homeschool co op starving and each one wants something different, I'm not scrambling. Last night we were on the go so my crew had spaghetti and meatballs and Mac and cheese meals they love that I actually feel good about. What I love most is that Nurture Life takes the stress out of feeding my kids on those days when schedules are hectic. No guesswork, no begging them to try veggies. It's all dietitian designed, allergy friendly and yes, I've even snuck a few bites myself. You choose from over 50 rotating meals and snacks. Nurture Life does the cooking and everything arrives at your door chilled and ready to go. So head to nurturelife.com 1000hours55 and use code 1000hours55 for 55% off your first order plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurturelife.com 1000hours55and make sure you use my promo code 1000hours55. Even if you aren't a parent with young kids, you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime. Make sure to share our code so our show gets the credit. Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. The other day my lamp broke. It's my bedside lamp and I use it to read late into the night because I'm always preparing for this podcast. It broke. It actually won't turn off unless I unplug it. And so I needed to find a new lamp for my bedside and my favorite place to go, of all places to go is Wayfair. Wayfair is the perfect place to go if your tableside lamp breaks, but it's also the perfect place to kick off your back to school and fall season prep. Everything comes so fast and they have an amazing selection of things from cozy bedding and linens to storage solutions for every room. They always have you covered. Plus their huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find just what we need to transition smoothly into the fall besides lamps and linens. And they even have playsets. We have the most incredible playset in our backyard that we got from Wayfair about six years ago and the kids still use it constantly. Whether you're refreshing your workspace with a new desk or making weeknight dinners a breeze with quality cookware, Wayfair literally has it all. And with free fast and hassle free delivery, even on big stuff like sofas and dining tables, there is no better time to shop, get organized, refreshed, and back into routine. For way less. Head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's Wayfair. W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home but the other song that he wrote about marriage is called Dancing in the Minefields.
- [19:24]
Jessica Smart
Love it. I know, right? That captures it as well. So super romantic. 2. He's two for two in romance.
- [19:30]
Ginny Urch
Dancing in the Minefield. Okay, so let's talk about that. You have this very remarkable statement. You do not have to have a strong marriage to have a strong family.
- [19:40]
Jessica Smart
Yes. And isn't that just really good news? Because when I started, I did not want to write this chapter. I was dreading it because I'm like, I'm not A marriage. I think I say, like, anyone who threw their car keys at their husband in the first year of marriage shouldn't write. But which I did. But it is important. And yes, like, if the parents are happy, that statistically we know, like, that is a good thing for the family, a good thing for kids. But I just take great comfort in my grandmother who's now passed away. Her marriage was very, very, very difficult. It was not a source of strength and joy to her, but she still continued to give and show up. And somehow I think it was Jesus, honestly, that's my opinion, is she was still able to like, create this home. That was a beautiful thing. And I've seen that, you know, anecdotally in other situations as well. So it's a great relief. Like, yeah, it is important and I am working on my marriage, you know, as we always should. As you get older, like you said, the kids are there at 11 o'. Clock. You're like, okay, when do we have time?
- [20:45]
Ginny Urch
But about my power Washington.
- [20:48]
Jessica Smart
Yes, exactly. We were just wanting to talk about that. But it is a blessing and a relief. I wanted everybody to hear that message that, like, even if you do feel like, well, our marriage isn't really, you know, that great, like you can still build a strong family despite that. That's good news.
- [21:05]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. And if you are a single mom, you know, if you're a single mom and you're doing all the things you know, you do not have to have a strong marriage to have a strong family, focus on what you do have instead of what you don't have. You talk about that is important for single moms. It's really important for all of us. Because you, then you talk about your Grammy. You say she lived meagerly, she spent all she had on us. She had seven children, 21 grandchildren, 36 great grandchildren. That is a lot of people. And you're right, every single one of them knew they were loved by Grammy. And yet she did not have this picture perfect marriage. She didn't have a support system. She moved 34 times in her marriage. And yet she left a legacy.
- [21:44]
Jessica Smart
Yeah. And I think honestly, the big piece that what, like, part of my heart with this book is just to maybe encourage moms to take that long view. Like, we're so. Our life right now is so interesting and compelling that we don't look down the line and think about legacy. We don't think about our children's children and their children's children. But that's the kind of impact we can have by Loving our kids and building this strong family, like, that's crazy to think about is that my grandmother was able to pass her values down. Now this is the fourth generation that they talk about. Great Grammy and, you know, certain things that she loved and just the culture that she built, like, that's crazy that we have that power to influence decades and decades and decades down the road. I just think we don't take that as seriously as moms, as maybe. And that can be kind of the Gatorade to propel you over the finish line to really think about, like, what the impact is of what you're doing.
- [22:44]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. I mean, it's really tricky because you're. You're planting for someone you don't know. Like, you have no idea who those grandchildren are going to be or those great grandchildren. I mean, this is beautiful. What you wrote. You wrote. Her Double Wide was the house of canned peaches and Schwann's pizzas and perfectly layered macaroni and cheese and push pops and country magazine and the old awful couches where we made so many memories. She made a home. She defined it. Her life was spent in the kitchen sink and the stove. She poured hours into loving people with sausage, eggs, and Folgers coffee. She gave us a rich, rich life. And, I mean, you kind of kick it off with that. And then she's woven throughout the story, throughout the book. Come On Home. And it does remind you that the simple things go a long way.
- [23:27]
Jessica Smart
Absolutely. And I. That title, I just. I love it so much. Come On Home. But it's funny because I was working on the book and at a soccer. I was talking to two friends at a soccer game. Like, I'm getting ready to go work on the book. And they're like, how do you do that? That is just. Oh, my goodness. And I was like, hey, going to Panera and typing my book is actually, like, incredible. Like, being a mom is the really hard part. I would rather stay out. And they joked. They were like, jessica, you need to come on home. And we laughed. But the title, I do think, like, that's part of my Heart is like, maybe it's to our kids, but it's also to the mamas. Like, come on home. Like, invest your time, invest your energy, invest your heart in your kids. And how it looks for you, Jenny, is how different than how it looks for me because you have different gifts. And so I don't want people to, like, feel stressed out. Like, well, now I gotta do, like, all. To make all the memories and do all the Stuff. And, you know, I have to organize my house perfectly and do like you. We can use the gifts that we have to build that strong home. It looks different for a lot of different people, but we should be investing in our home in some way. Right? In. In some ways.
- [24:38]
Ginny Urch
You wrote, pour yourself into your home, and it could just look like push pops. I mean, you know, try and find 100% whatever. The ones without food dye. I don't know.
- [24:48]
Jessica Smart
We didn't have those growing up. We ate the. The dyes. I mean, we still sit here.
- [24:54]
Ginny Urch
Here we are.
- [24:55]
Jessica Smart
Here we are.
- [24:56]
Ginny Urch
And then. So the whole point is you don't have to have a strong marriage to have a strong family. You really weave in all of these simple ideas. And you even wrote that this one couple said, we forced ourselves. It's so good. We forced ourselves to take date nights.
- [25:13]
Jessica Smart
That was my aunt and uncle. And they. What's so funny is they're so, like, they're one of those, like, real romantic, touchy feely couples. So that was actually really reassuring to me. I was like, you guys forced yourself to do that. But that. That I think is encouraging and a good reminder because I don't remember the statistics. I haven't looked it up recently. But, you know, there's different phases for when divorces peak. It's like you have the initial right after marriage that a lot of, like, people get divorced. But then it's like, maybe, you know, Ginny, but like, 20 years is kind of like a possible, like, because the kids are graduating and it's unsettling. And then you're, like, looking at each other like, well, we don't even know each other. We don't have any shared hobbies. And so I have heard. And one thing we're trying to work on is like, let's. Let's invest in each other and make sure we're really, like, connecting as a couple so that we have something shared when our kids leave home. Because then it's just the marriage that kind of is there, but it's almost like you don't want to do that. It's like, too good of news because you feel like you should just keep going, pledge ahead, do the hard stuff. But maybe somebody needs to hear this. What you need is to go on a date with your husband tonight.
- [26:22]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. Yeah. Even if you don't want to, you feel forced to do it. Because I do think that you think it should be something that you really want to do, but you don't because there's all the dishes in the Sink and you're behind and you're tired, and there's a thousand other things that you could do. So I thought that was a really interesting thing. I thought it was weirdly reassuring as well. Yeah, we're at 22 years of marriage, so maybe we're doing okay. There.
- [26:46]
Jessica Smart
There was a date that we dropped the kids off, and. Yeah, you. You are. You reached it. But there was a date that we dropped our kids off and started driving away, and we were like, you know what? We could just park the car and take a nap. Yeah, I kind of felt guilty, but I think we did. That's okay.
- [27:04]
Ginny Urch
There's a book called the Fight for Us about marriage by Rebecca Lyons, and she says. They say that summer divorces peak in the summer, too.
- [27:12]
Jessica Smart
Interesting.
- [27:13]
Ginny Urch
Yes. Or. I don't know, from Google searches, they can tell that. Interesting things. Okay. I was surprised to read about the marriage piece, and I do think it's encouraging because maybe you're going through a season that's really hard and you still have hope that you can have a strong family. This was a really interesting piece. You're talking about friendships between the kids. And you. You said. Okay, first of all, you said that you were a terrible sister growing up.
- [27:35]
Jessica Smart
Yeah, I think I was, like, in middle school, and my. My mom looked me in the eye and said, do not hit one of my children again. And she's, like, amazing and has, like, the patience of Job, so I really must have. And it a little bit stung. I was like, wait, one of your kids? What do you mean, one of your kids? I'm one of your kids. But that's how bad I was.
- [27:57]
Ginny Urch
Okay, so, you know, it's like, I think what everybody wants, and you can't. You just can't see down the road. But you do see. You do see that some families make it work. And then some families are, like mortal enemies. And. And there's very broken relationships. So, you know, of course you want your kids to be friends down the road. Now, it's interesting that you brought up, then, Jessica, that this family compound is great, but also by having that, you lose some of the immediate family stuff because the kids are off with cousins, and then sometimes the cousins can. You know, they gang up with a cousin on their sibling. So can you talk about how I thought that was really remarkable? Like, you always look at a situation like, oh, that's perfect, or that would be ideal, but there are some hiccups there in terms of creating your own family culture when you're on a family compound.
- [28:44]
Jessica Smart
Right. Like, yeah, I said, sometimes I have to, like, bring. We got, like, a cowbell. When I want the kids to come home, they know what all of the. The bells. The different bells signify. But I'll ring the bell and get them in there. Like, where are we going? What do we need? I'm like, nowhere. We're just. You're gonna sit here and hang out with. And they're, like, with each other. Like, just each other. And you're like, yeah. They're like, why? Because you live here. This is your home. These are your people. But if you don't, there's like, a Francis Schaefer quote. I had just written it down, where she's like, if you don't take the time to invest in one another and to make memories, like, your memory bank is empty. There's nothing in it when your kids are grown. So that's always really convicting. But, yeah, I mean, there's a million different ways to kind of work on those sibling relationships. I think the one thing my mom did that was so good, she just constantly was like, these. Your siblings will be your best friends. Said it over and over and over. And we were like, no, like, you. You don't get it. Like. But she was 100% right. And I think what she was doing is, like, building this culture where it's like, no matter what these people are for you, this is. These are your people. We're together. We're loyal to each other. And after so many times of hearing it, it became true for us, I guess. And, you know, maybe you're going to get to this, but such a big part of it is grace and just the ability to work through conflict because it's great. You can do all the vacations and all that stuff, but if you can't really work through your problems and apologize and forgive, you know, bitterness is not great for building a strong family culture. So she just embodied that. So. So. Well, she was just. Would always forgive. But, yeah, the sibling thing is no joke.
- [30:35]
Ginny Urch
But you're really direct in this book, and I. I think that we need this directness. You talk about how there should be zero tolerance for rudeness. People who are perpetually mean to their siblings should not be allowed to happily glide through life with a full social calendar. If you can't play nice with your siblings, you can't play with anyone else. So just to have those foundations there to make sure that the kids know this is really important. And then you talk about, let them be bored together.
- [31:02]
Jessica Smart
Yeah, I don't remember if this is in the book. But one of my children had a really massive consequence of, like, 24 hours with. With no, you know what? Oh, yeah, I can't. It was some book that I read. I want to say you had the author on as a guest, but I can't remember. But anyway, I got this idea that, okay, if you do something, you got 24 hours, you know, where you're not playing with anybody else. And at like hour 18 or something, this child was so cheerful and happy to play with his siblings. It was like a miracle.
- [31:32]
Ginny Urch
It's in the book.
- [31:33]
Jessica Smart
Yeah. And I was like, oh, I guess if you just get desperate enough, you know, they will play with each other. And so it is a matter of, like, prioritizing, I think, especially parents, our generation. Our schedules are insanely packed. We've got tennis and volleyball and piano. And then we're in this competition and we got to go to this trip. And it's like to actually stop and say, no, we're going to prioritize your sibling friendship, even if it's inconvenient for me, which it is. That's the big secret that kids don't realize. Like, punishments are harder on the parents than the kids. But no, we're going to stop what we're doing and make a priority of fixing this relationship. There's nothing that's more important. This is something I've said, like, hey, the most important thing in your life right now is that you are a good big brother. So the world's gonna stop until you can figure that out. Yeah.
- [32:24]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. Because then you talk about loyalty and how that there's opportunities to practice that within the family relationship. So you talk about, we stick up for each other. We don't kick someone when they're down. You shouldn't join in in a laughing session at a sibling's expense. Which that could be happening when there's a bunch of cousins. You know, kids could be like, ganging up on each other. Happens at school, like, different things like that. So just a reminder of really helping to facilitate those sibling relationships. You say, if your kids are not bonding well or worse, are at each other's throats, evaluate your schedule, let them be bored together. And the book then just has so many practical ideas which would make sense from the memory making. Mom. But here's the thing I have to tell you, Jessica, you know, I'm reading through and you're like, okay, in appendix two, there are family family bonding ideas. And in, you know, in this appendix is the most Appendix 1, the most epic list of memory making ideas ever. I was like, yes. And then my book doesn't have them.
- [33:24]
Jessica Smart
Oh, that's so funny.
- [33:25]
Ginny Urch
I'm so sorry. You know what?
- [33:27]
Jessica Smart
We got you on the list for a real one. That's so funny.
- [33:31]
Ginny Urch
I don't know why that is.
- [33:32]
Jessica Smart
I noticed that too. I have the same one here. And I was like, what happened to those?
- [33:36]
Ginny Urch
It's just the advanced reading copy. So I was like, oh, I can't wait to read the most epic.
- [33:42]
Jessica Smart
I'm gonna make you a list right now. Make sure Jenny gets the real copy.
- [33:47]
Ginny Urch
But this is great because there are really practical ideas. So when you're talking about friendship now, at the end of each chapter you have interviewed different families, which is a really cool element of the book. So one of the families gives this idea and I think this would be like if your kids are getting a little bit older, if the kids go off and do anything together, they're going to go bowling, they're going to go go karting together as siblings. The parents pay for it.
- [34:10]
Jessica Smart
Yeah, exactly. I love that idea. And I did a twist on that. I don't remember if this, you know, you forget what you wrote in the book. Does that happen to you? But I had two, two of the kids that were like kind of at each other's throats and I was like, hey, if you can play Monopoly and no one gets mad, I will take you out to Chick Fil A. Oh yeah. That means, yeah, like whoever's a good winner and a good loser, you can earn that individually. And it's like, well, is that bribing or is it just like positive motivation? Because, you know, we all do things for positive motivation and kind of training them, like, this is important and here's, you know, how your life will suffer if you don't. And here's an incentive for you. So yeah, I love that idea. When I pitched this to my readers, that was one of the big things people were like, please give us ideas for. Like, if you have a wide range of siblings, how we can like bond. Because that is hard when you've got an older one that's into things and then the younger ones are like, really in a different stage. But I think that's good training for life, right? Like to be a good dad, you're doing stuff that you don't in your heart feel like super excited about. And similarly, like, I hope my kids take care of me one day. Well, they may not really feel like coming over and checking on me, but like that's a good skill to learn of. Like, okay, I'm going to invest in someone else. I don't feel like playing Candyland, but I can, you know, so it's like you have to train them. I think people assume that some kids just like, have that naturally. Maybe some do, but I think more often than not, we've got to train our kids in those skills, in those traits. So it's not bad to say, I'm gonna make you, like, play a game. I've heard people do, like part of their homeschool day is play a game with your little sibling, like for 15 minutes. And we've done like summer checklist where I was like, you're going to have, you know, sister camp, so something in the day you're going to find something to do with your sister. I do that a lot. And what's so funny, Jenny, is like in the beginning, they're like, this is so annoying. But they actually end up enjoying it. You know, nine times out of 10, they nine times out of 10 because there are the times that you're like, well, that was a, that was a big loser.
- [36:20]
Ginny Urch
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- [39:32]
Jessica Smart
Is that the one where you pop in the letters, all the letters and.
- [39:36]
Ginny Urch
Then you have to try and find as many words as you can And I'm really good at it so I.
- [39:39]
Jessica Smart
Think why that's hilarious. I think I bet trouble is missing too because I can't stand the sound of the popper.
- [39:47]
Ginny Urch
Well Boggle, you do. You have to shake all the little dice. But trouble, forgive me, forgive me, but there's an amazing list of family games and I mean there's just these little funny tidbits that you throw in. So one of the games you say is, what do you mean? Family edition. But still go through the cards and take some out.
- [40:04]
Jessica Smart
Yes. Oh, my gosh. I was like, this is not the family. But that's a good. I wrote this down because I wanted to mention this. I am not a big game person, actually. Sometimes I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, it's gonna last three hours and people are gonna fight and my brain is just gonna explode at the end of the day sometimes. But having a couple games that are like, easy button and what do you mean family is 1.5crowns. I could play it in my sleep. I don't know if you all play this.
- [40:31]
Ginny Urch
I like Five crowns.
- [40:33]
Jessica Smart
Yeah, there's apples to apples, stuff like that. That you really don't have to think too hard. Spoons. I think I have a list and.
- [40:44]
Ginny Urch
They'Re kind of fun. Like, I think five crowns is fun. It's a little challenging. And it's fun for the adult. So is I really like Boggle. I mean, it's fun for the adult. It's challenging. I don't like games. I think it's really tricky when you're in the like, hi ho, cheerio stage of life. Like you've got a three or four year old and you're like, oh, I. I just say, really? Her Candyland. You're like, this is so boring. But as soon as they hit the spot where they can play some of the harder games, I think it can be pretty fun. You have a list of about 25 games here that we've only played. Maybe like half of them.
- [41:16]
Jessica Smart
Well, good. Yeah, that'd be a big help. Hopefully.
- [41:19]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. So lots of ideas in here. You Talk about the 12 Days of Christmas activities. Can you talk about the effective mom? So first of all, you say someone has to start the race. There's always a person who starts. So I think that's really encouraging. That might be you. And you say, and you say, it might be controversial, but you talk about how the mom is the single greatest influence in the family. For bad or for good. Yeah.
- [41:45]
Jessica Smart
And it made me think when you were talking earlier, one of the most impactful books to my motherhood was this little booklet. Rachel, I think you say Jankovic. Is that how you say your last name? And it's loving the little years. And she. Because you were talking about self care. And you know, I think we do feel that, like, I just need a break. I've got a. I can't, you know, keep going. I need to stop and get a break. And she had this quote in there that said, if you feel like you need to find yourself or find rest, look to your family, look to your people and that's where you will find your life. And it was really revolutionary to me at the time because I was thinking my source of rest and relaxation was away from them. And it's not a lie that it does feel peaceful to not be around screaming children, but just reorienting your perspective. Yes, exactly. Right. Like I think about my grandmother and yeah, years past it was like their relaxing activity was to sit around and knit around the fire with everyone. So have human beings changed?
- [42:54]
Ginny Urch
But that is relaxing. Yeah, I mean knitting is relaxing. It releases the dopamine in the brain. Anything you do with your hands. And so I think part of the reason why we need so much self care and, and possibly self care alone is because we're so screen heavy and because our kids aren't outside so they're climbing up the walls and it just feels like too much. And so if you take some of these self care ideas, you can really help yourself. Like you say we're the thermostat and not a thermometer. So we're the ones that are setting the tone. And so it's a good reminder to find out what makes you feel good. I feel really good when I play the piano, you know, or I mean it's totally different than if I'm scrolling on my phone and you find those things that help you to feel better and then it bleeds out into the kids. And I like what you said. You look toward your family. Another idea, especially if your kids are older, is they can help you. And so we've read a lot of same books. Like I loved it. You got Kim John Payne in there. You've got Michaeline du Clef Hunt, Gather Parent. I was like, oh, I've read that one. I really like that one too. I really like that book.
- [43:59]
Jessica Smart
Book.
- [43:59]
Ginny Urch
So when you're talking about finding rest within your home, you've told this story about how you're about, you know, you're writing this book and I think we all go through seasons like this. Every person alive goes through seasons where they're like, okay, I'm a little bit overloaded. It's not going to last forever. It's just a season. So you're writing this book and you bring the kids in and you know, you're basically telling them people are going to have to pitch in. And so your oldest kid is like, just get to the point. Tell me what I have to do. And you're like, no, you're gonna figure it out.
- [44:30]
Jessica Smart
Yes. And what you're saying reminds me. I've been reading. Is it Rory Groves? Is that who you say you had him? I'm like, oh, my gosh. This. And y', all, if you didn't listen to that interview on this podcast, I think it could be life changing. I texted it to my husband, and then I actually bought both of the books immediately, and I handed him one, and I said, I have a quick assignment for you. You're gonna read this book and then come up with our new family business. He was like, wait, what? What?
- [44:59]
Ginny Urch
Just a small assignment?
- [45:00]
Jessica Smart
Yeah. But I loved, like, he. Oh, my gosh, there's so many things in there. But he kind of, like, sets the stage of just historically how the family as an institution has changed. And it was mind blowing to think about how so many. You know, the norm is for families to be together. And that has changed just very recently that we're not. But his whole concept of family economy and, like, everyone pitching in and, you know, Joel, your buddy Joel Salad. Is that how you say it? Yeah, your buddy. You know, he's so big about that. Like, working together. Like, this is. And that is something also we do not do well right now as a culture. It's like, no, mom and dad have their things, or maybe even mom has her thing. Dad has hit this thing. And then the kids are just kind of. We're trying to keep them busy while we do the real work.
- [45:51]
Ginny Urch
Yeah.
- [45:52]
Jessica Smart
And is it Mickalene? Is that her name?
- [45:54]
Ginny Urch
Yeah, Michael.
- [45:56]
Jessica Smart
Michael. Like, she's so big, too. About, like, no, no, they need to be doing the real work. Like, that's what gives them meaning, is to ground them in. Like, this is the family, and we need all of each. We need everybody, even the toddlers. That was mind blowing to think about that. Like, because I think, like, normally we're like, yeah, everyone should have chores, but I need to, like, make up chores that are, like, pseudo helpful. That's the totally wrong way to think about it. It's like, no. What needs to be done in the family, and your kids can do it. And I'm saying this as someone that, like, I have internal angst every time I assign my kids chores. I don't know why, but it's like, are they gonna argue or. You know, I feel bad for them. I'm like, well, they're kind of busy.
- [46:38]
Ginny Urch
You almost feel bad. Yeah.
- [46:39]
Jessica Smart
But I.
- [46:40]
Ginny Urch
You know, I tell you what, I just Read this book by Arthur Brooks, and it was all about the dignity of work. And I have had this mindset shift. So talking about Rory Groves, it's like you come across these things that are counterculture that you've never thought about. Like, you've never thought about the fact that families didn't use to split up and now they do, and that's become the norm. And Arthur Brooks talks about the dignity of work. And I feel like our whole culture is based around this idea of not working eventually, your whole goal in life. And obviously there's, you know, a goal as a Christ follower, but the cultural goal is retirement. Like, that's really what everything is going toward. Everything is geared toward not working eventually. So everything you do is for the sake of not working. And so then sometimes I think then that dribbles down into feeling bad about giving kids work to do. And yet, ironically, this Arthur Brooks talks about that work is one of the keys to a happy life. And even it doesn't matter what kind of work, it doesn't have to be like, exceptional movie star work. I mean, it's down to the, you know, menial tasks that they do. Something for your soul.
- [47:52]
Jessica Smart
Yes. So two. Two thoughts. When we were in college, my husband and I led young life. And that's a lot of work, actually. You're, like, gone from the campus, you're investing in these kids, you're doing. But my friends from young life, those are the ones that I talk to, you know, far and above the others, because we had that shared, like, purpose, and we were working together, and it made the friendship. You know, there's that quote about, like, there's friendship where you're staring at each other, and then there's friendship where you're working ahead towards a goal. But, like, when you're doing something purposeful together, it bonds you in a way that no other thing can, you know, that shared values and purpose. So, yeah, a hundred percent. I think we just short circuit it because, like you said, it's not a value right now in culture. It's weird, right, to all be working together. And one practical takeaway, I think, from that is hospitality. We just had my cousin stay with us, and I was reminded of just how good it was. Like, my kids won. My daughter made her a little basket, and my sons were kind of staying up and talking to her about her job and, you know, making conversation. And that is a very tangible way to get the family all involved in doing something that there are tons of people in this world that are lonely, that could you love to come and sit with your family? Even though to me I'm like, dinner with my family would not be like a happy thing. But it is for some people. It really is. And so that's a great way to get your kids, kids all involved. Like, you help with this and you're in charge of conversation and they learn to die to themselves a little bit. So that's just one little practical idea, I think, of how we can pass that on to our kids. But you're right, we just, we don't think about it. We, we, we don't value work. And so it's a new concept.
- [49:36]
Ginny Urch
Yeah, I would feel guilty. I mean, that's how I would have thought about it is like, oh, this is their childhood. I don't want to give them all of these things to do. And yet Michael Lean talks about how that gives them their family membership card. You know, you talk about how like, well, who doesn't want to be involved? Like, you don't want your opinion to not be counted and you're just there, you know, it helps for buy in. And so the idea of not explicitly saying, okay, you're going to do this and you're going to do that, but hey, as a whole, here's the big picture. I'm going to leave the room and can, can you figure it out? We just did. So we're working with this business coach because you talk about marriage. I'm like, all of a sudden we've had a rocky one too. And all of a sudden we're working together. So you throw that into the mix. So we're using this amazing business coach. It's new. And we took these business profile assessment. It's called disc. I never heard of it. D I S SC Disc assessment. So anyways, myself, my husband and our oldest son is all exactly the same. Like the graphs are exactly. I was like, there must be something wrong with this program. We come out with like visionaries, not super organized. And if you were to look around my house, you talk about it in your book, you're like, not a good decorator. I'm not a good decorator. Plus, it's kind of disorganized. There's a lot of stuff everywhere. Well, then our, our oldest daughter took it and she was so high on whatever the one is for organization. So I said to her the other day, I was like, so like we're pretty disorganized around here. Do you have any idea? She was like, yeah, I could do the whole thing on how we could like, better streamline our home management, you know? And she has all these ideas, and I think that's part of the family economy, is that you start to. Instead of looking at your kids as, like, I'm just gonna pour into them and send them out, you start looking to them as, like, what are the gifts that they have? What can they bring to the family? How can all of the parts that we have enhance each other? So I was just a lot there, a lot there to think about that I've never really explored.
- [51:33]
Jessica Smart
I just paid my son to organize all of the cords in our house, and it is the most beautiful system. Like, he got these Ziploc bags and, like, like minded. I was like, oh, my goodness, you have skills that I can really be using in here. But I love that. And you're right. In the family economy, he. He. That was a huge mind shift for me because I'm like, yeah, I've heard of, like, family business. But he was like, no, look at your kids. See what they're good at and build a business around that. That is amazing to think about.
- [52:01]
Ginny Urch
Totally different than a family business. He calls it economy for a specific reason. I mean, those books are fantastic. I ran into him at this homestead festival, and I was like, this is exactly what I'm looking for, my looking for in my life. And we're thinking about it all the time. So there's the idea in here about just having your kids join in in more substantial ways, and I think that that is really beneficial. And then you also talk about how so talking about the home, I thought this was really convicting for me. You're like, look, look, because I'm the same as you. You're like, making a space beautiful doesn't come easily. I'm too frugal to buy items we could really use. It's all the same. And then I'm like, I don't want to rearrange. That's like a waste of money. I already bought the decor. Why would I ever rearrange it? But when I finally did buy do buy stuff, you're like, I feel like I'm rushing. I want it to be done. And then you say, I put stuff up and I hate it. Then you talk about this story, how someone's coming over to look for mold. Then you're, like, thinking they're going to look in one spot. Then they look through the whole house, and you're like, oh, no. Oh, no. And you had this sentence. Homes are places where people poop and stain shirts. And this was so relatable and cut up snips of paper for inexplicable reasons. Yes. Like, why is there paper everywhere? Who did this? And they don't pick it up.
- [53:23]
Jessica Smart
I was. I was reading my audiobook. I hadn't read for either of the other two, but I was reading them. And he. I was retelling that and he said, can you please back up? It sounded like you were laughing. I was like, I was. That's funny. Like, I'm picturing the messes of the scraps paper. But yeah, I didn't want to. That was a hard chapter too, because I'm like, I don't want people to feel guilty in some ways. It's like some of us are just really good at that and some of us aren't as much. But I do think that it is still worth it. Like, that is also still a fact that remains of in some way kind of working up your little nest and making it a cozy, inviting place. And I say it doesn't have to be great for everyone in the world. It just has to be a place your family wants to be. So, like, I love how you said about asking your daughter, you know, does this place stress you out? Like, so thinking about, like we talked to the other day. We. We did. We've been doing family dinner in the summer and the activity after dinner, you get to pick what we're gonna have it get. It's your turn. And then you get to pick the activity. So was my activity. I was like, I just want to play the question game. And I'm going to think up questions and we're going to just go around the circle and, you know, it wasn't going to be catan, I can tell you that. But I said one of my questions was, what would you change about the house? And it was so interesting. Every single person's. Even my husband. I was like, oh, I didn't realize.
- [54:46]
Ginny Urch
Everybody has an opinion. I don't even know if I would want to ask that question. What would you change about?
- [54:52]
Jessica Smart
But honestly, it was a relief because some of the things I was like, really? That's all like, okay, I can probably do that.
- [54:58]
Ginny Urch
Yeah.
- [54:59]
Jessica Smart
Or you could ask, what do you like about the house? And some of them, I think my. One of the kids maybe said like, they wanted a he shed. And I was like, well, that's not going to happen because those are like $13,000. So. Not that you can do it, but. But again, like, I think the overarching thing is I had a sentence in there. Where I was like, listen, if you just had a baby and you're listening to this or reading it, skip ahead. You don't need to think about this right now. This is not your season. But if you do have energy in life, like, you should spend a little bit of it thinking about how to make this place someplace that we all like to be. It isn't really right for us to just give the excess of our energy and love to outside places and while the inside is being neglected. So if we have a surplus of energy, let's spend it a little bit in our. In our homes. And that can look so amazingly different for everyone based on their personality. You know, my sister makes these sourdough loaves of, like, whatever the season is. It's like an animal that represents. I'm like, oh, my gosh.
- [56:05]
Ginny Urch
Like you say when they invite you over, they ask you to bring the ice.
- [56:10]
Jessica Smart
I know. I'm like, I am insulted. I'm trying to have some skill that could be worthwhile, and I just can't.
- [56:17]
Ginny Urch
That's even lower than, like, a salad. Like a salad. Like, what? You can get the bag.
- [56:21]
Jessica Smart
Thanks, Jenny.
- [56:23]
Ginny Urch
Thank you. You can break the ice, you know, and, like, there's like, a. A separate text where they're like, what should we ask Jessica to bring?
- [56:32]
Jessica Smart
There is. You're exactly right. Yes. I. I try so hard, but there are things that I'm good at. Like, I can think up, really. Like, I make up these little rhymes for their Easter baskets. Or, like, you know, we. Right. Thank you.
- [56:47]
Ginny Urch
Well, even the questions. Even the questions.
- [56:48]
Jessica Smart
You have a question?
- [56:50]
Ginny Urch
Do you have a book of questions?
- [56:51]
Jessica Smart
Yeah, I'll throw. I'll throw the link in. It's. It's 250 questions. It was like, throw it in the car.
- [56:58]
Ginny Urch
I mean, obviously, you're an amazing author. I mean, every. Yeah, everybody's got.
- [57:01]
Jessica Smart
Well, this isn't about me. But my point is, we all have gifts. We all. Things that we're not great at. We all have gifts. But if you feel like you're living with a little extra energy, look inside. Look inside your home and your kids and open your eyes and see, like, how could I make this place a little bit better? Is everybody feeling loved? How are they doing?
- [57:20]
Ginny Urch
So, yeah, you're right. Homes and spaces really do matter to kids. And then you talk about how if you have a really ugly, unloved room in your home, when you have the bandwidth, work on making it beautiful. You say, I'm not looking to lay burdens on people who don't have time to brush their teeth. But if you feel like you have the bandwidth and you've got an ugly room, then you could maybe put something into it. There was a funny part in this part, too. I don't remember even what it was related to, but it's just a really funny book. Like, where you were, like, everyone's looking at pictures. You know, they're, like, looking at old pictures of, like, marriage photos, and they're like, wow, dad looks exactly the same.
- [57:57]
Jessica Smart
Just silence. Radio silence. I was like, what about me, guys? Nah, you don't know. You don't look the same.
- [58:03]
Ginny Urch
Nothing. One of the quotes you had in here is from Justin Whitmill early, which. I love his books, too. And he said, one of the most significant things about any household is what is considered to be normal. What does that mean to you?
- [58:19]
Jessica Smart
Well, I can tell you how it made me feel the first time I read it, which was terrible. And, like, am I doing something wrong? Like, you get that feeling where you're like, well, what's normal in our home? You know, what are our kids gonna say? But I think it's convicting. And, like, a lot of the things that you talk about and that you have the courage to bring up on this show, like, just because it's kind of hard to think about doesn't mean that we shouldn't. And maybe it's actually a gift that if you're listening to this, like, maybe just. Just take a minute and see. Like, is there something that I, deep down feel like maybe we need a change in our home? Maybe it has something to do with technology. We didn't even talk about that. And that's a whole thing. Maybe it's how you're spending your time. I talk about travel, sports, and my goodness, that is like a God. You know, in people's homes, they do everything. And I. We've struggled through that. So that's why when I say they, I mean we. But whether it's that or just like, a family dinner or, you know, I don't know. Like, I think moms have really great intuition. And if you take a minute to really think, like, what about my family? Do I maybe kind of want to change? I think it's a scary question to ask. But I think that my. My opinion is that God gives us those little nudges for a reason. And if he gives us that nudge, there's an answer that he can help us make a change. And my big, like, overarching message is, like, I don't want this to Feel like one more thing we have to do. Like now, even now she's telling me I gotta like do all this stuff to make a strong family, like more. I think it's a gift of like, maybe there are things in your life that you can lay down that are not life giving to you and your family. And maybe this is a giant gift from the heavens saying, you don't have to keep doing this rat race. Maybe it, maybe it's a big thing, like a move or a change or, or maybe it's just a small thing, like, no, you know what, I'm taking that step. We're going to have family dinner together. And I do talk about, by the way, that doesn't need to meet every single day. That was a revolution to me. Like you can just be a family that has a once a week family dinner. That's amazing. That's awesome. So if there is like a little change, like don't get discouraged and think, I can't do this. This is too hard. Like, take one small baby step. What's that phrase about do the next thing? And I am, I am so not like the perfect parent at all. This was like a experiment in what do all the great people do with families. And let's try to put some takeaways, you know, that practical ways that we could implement this. But I mess up every day. I am like, lord, please give me the strength to somehow be a good mom. And, and he, he's answered that. He's so good.
- [61:02]
Ginny Urch
Yeah. Yeah. I always allow myself to buy one book that is referenced in the book I read. And sometimes I go over and sometimes I don't get one. But the book I chose from your book is A Praying Life by Paul Miller. I haven't read it yet. And you just, you also talk in this book about prayer. And so actually one of the things I really loved that you quoted Paul, gosh, I love this really a whole lot. And it actually got brought up twice. Paul says, it took me 17 years to realize I couldn't parent on my own. 17 years. We have a 17 year old. And I do think that sometimes you're like, oh, I missed it. You talked about traditions. One of the things you said is that everybody feels like I missed it. You know, it's too late and I wish I would have started the transition, the traditions before. But then you say, well, look, you can include the older kids and starting them, like just start, just start. But you talk about the prayer card system and also it was just a reminder that it's not too late. So you say nearly all of us have missed opportunities to implement traditions. And then there's a funny one. Here's a funny one. It's just such an amusing book because you have all these different ideas and there are other people give their ideas too. So you're like, one of the ideas is someone does this where they, for someone's birthday, they put sticky notes around the house with the person's age on it. And you wrote, I bet this is one of those things that is way more fun than it sounds like. It just sounds pretty dumb.
- [62:40]
Jessica Smart
So now I feel bad, actually. Until you read that, it didn't hit me that maybe that was insulting to that person's tradition. But I meant it as a compliment of like, yeah, it sounds like nothing, but I can see my kids being like, this is so fun. Where else is the number 11? But I'm so glad you mentioned the prayer thing. I'm so glad you brought that up because that's not like a minor. Like, I needed another chapter, so I threw it in. That book has changed our lives, like my husband and I, and it is uncanny. Like, as I pray about certain things in our kids, like, answers will come and changes will happen, like a hundred percent. And you know, I was praying the other day for one of my stuff. My oldest son was like, he's, he's a musician as well. And one day he was like, yeah, I'm actually, I'm done. I'm not going to play music anymore. And we were like, excuse me, but he's been self motivated. And so we were like, well, you know, we don't want to be like that aggressive, like, parent. Like, no, you have to. But it was kind of like sad. We were like, wait, you obviously have a gift. So we got down on our knees, like, literally got down on our knees. And we're like, God, something's up here. Would you show up? And not two days later, our pastor reached out and said, hey, I would like for, you know, your son to be on the worship team. Can I sit down and talk to him about it? And then he came home and was like, so excited. And he's been playing every day. And it was like, it was uncanny. It was so clear, like, and so many stories like, that I can't even get into. But when, when I've come and just been consistent in prayer and God has shown up and done some crazy thing for our kids, like, like, it, it really is unbelievable. And I'm like, him, I didn't take prayer seriously. For so many years. It was like, oh, we're good. But when you do that, like, oh, it's. It's incredible. And the prayer cards, you got to do the prayer cards.
- [64:27]
Ginny Urch
That's what you talked about. I was like, I need to know what the prayer card system is. It's called A Praying Life. Connecting with God in a Distracting World by Paul E. Miller. Over half a million copies sold. So I'm super excited to read that based off of your book. Come On Home. I'll read the hymn here to wrap us up because you do talk about prayer and then you talk about the hymn. What a friend we have in Jesus what a friend we have in Jesus all our sins and griefs to bear what a privilege to carry Everything to God in prayer oh, what peace we often forfeit oh, what needless pain we bear all because we do not carry everything to God in prayer What a book. I loved it so much. It is called Come On Home, A Grace filled guide to Raising a Family who loves and likes each other. Yours will come with two appendixes that are amazing and tons of practical ideas. It's a perfect time. This book is coming out in the back to school season. It will really help you with your 202025 to 2026 school year. I loved it so much and I'm taking so much away from it. Jessica, thanks for being here.
- [65:31]
Jessica Smart
Thank you for having me. It was an honor and a delight. I think a lot of you. And what's hilarious is the first time you reached out to me for Let Them Be Kids. I'm so sorry. I actually hadn't really heard of you. I didn't know. And when I got done interviewing with you, I was like, but what's funny is I got done interviewing with you and I was like, wow, that was. It was the best interview I'd had. I was like, she is really talented. She might go somewhere and then like, obviously, like you just accept exploded. It's. But you are a fantastic interviewer. You just really are. You're so generous like to. Because you're an author yourself. But the way you compliment and engage with the book and take all those notes, I don't know how you read all that.
- [66:11]
Ginny Urch
You read a lot of reading. I can read pretty fast.
- [66:15]
Jessica Smart
I'm so grateful for this opportunity, I can't even tell you. I've just been praying like, lord, please, please allow me the platform to encourage moms in this. And you gave me that chance. So I am really grateful to you.
- [66:27]
Ginny Urch
It is a top notch book and I hope that it goes far and wide.
- [66:30]
Jessica Smart
I am so touched, so humbled. You're the best.
- [66:37]
Ginny Urch
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- [66:51]
Jessica Smart
Customize and save. We save.
- [66:55]
Ginny Urch
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