← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 601: Learn to Love the Life You Already Have | Kate Strickler, I Just Wish I Had a Bigger Kitchen
01:01:53
Loading summary
Transcript141 lines
- [00:03]
A
Adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as.
- [00:23]
B
If they do not exist.
- [00:26]
A
New team. The new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I got this incredible book in the mail. I was immediately drawn to it because it's called I Just wish I had a Bigger Kitchen. And I feel like I'm a pretty content person, Kate. But also I do wish I had a bigger kitchen. So the author Kate Strigler, founder of Nap Time Kitchen, is here. Welcome, Kate.
- [00:55]
B
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. You are not alone in the desire for a bigger kitchen. I'm right there with you. Okay. All right.
- [01:03]
A
So I am, like, the worst at interior design. In fact, the other day. So we've got this island in the middle of our kitchen. It's kind of tall. It's not ideal. It's too tall for me. I can't do anything on it. Like, I can't prep or. Anyway, in the. A sink cracked in the island, and it's all one piece, apparently, like, the whole thing. You can't just, like, take the sink out and switch to another sink.
- [01:23]
B
Oh.
- [01:24]
A
Anyways, we've been, like, I don't even know, putting some sort of a glue thing in there, which is probably not, like, healthy. I don't even know what's going on with it. But anyway, I'm so bad at interior design that my girlfriend was like, well, this is some. This is whatever. And then the other one is like a composite, like, the other counter. So she's like, if you change this out, then you're gonna have to change. And I was like, I don't even know. But here's what I do know. The spot where our table is is so thin that, like, if you. If you walk to the back of the table, you're stuck there.
- [01:56]
B
Yeah.
- [01:57]
A
You can't get out. So, like, either everybody has to get out to let you out, or you have to, like, ask for people to get you stuff. And I have thought so many times, if I could just extend this one wall on the side two feet. That's all I need. Kate. Yeah.
- [02:11]
B
Just an easy little project. Just knock down that wall, you know, as if it. As if it's ever that Easy.
- [02:16]
A
Yeah. Right? It goes, like, into our driveway. And I was like, can you. Can we get two feet? What kind of a project would that be? They'd have to, like, rip off the whole side of that.
- [02:23]
B
Yes. And then you're painting your house, and, you know, then I read your book.
- [02:27]
A
And I was like, I could just get a thinner table. Yes, there we go. There we go. That might be what we do, but to the point of, like, I'm pretty content. I don't care that the island doesn't match the counters. It just kind of is what it is. It's where we live. I do all. I'm drawn in to these things, I think, mainly because it would make your life easier. Right? It would make your life easier. People could get out of the table and move around. So can you just give us a bit of your backstory about. This is a book about contentment. It's a book about the things that we. We wish. There's 10 of them in this book, and they're so relatable. Where did it come from?
- [03:00]
B
Yes. So I'm Kate Strickler. I run the Instagram account, Nap Time Kitchen. And so I've been online for about 10 years, and I started to notice that every time I would personally share anything kind of like revolving around contentment, something that I was struggling with, it would be like a massive influx of messages of just other people saying, like, gosh, me too. I feel that way, too. Or, gosh, Kate, I can't believe that you ever felt that way. I wouldn't assume you did. I thought it was just me, like, all of these conversations around a lot of women feeling the same things as me and then feeling like they're the only ones feeling that way. And so I started to, over time, really feel like I had this, like, massive test audience where I had the benefit of knowing a lot of other people feel this way.
- [03:49]
A
And.
- [03:49]
B
But, you know, people that are sending me one message aren't getting as many as I am to say, like, hey, girl, you are not alone. There are so many other people that feel this way. And so I written about it. You know, I write. I write on Instagram, but, you know, we all know how quick the Internet moves. And so I really wanted something tangible, like something where you hold it. It's right when you, like, hold a book. I feel like it's like, hey, you can slow your pace down. It's not going anywhere. If you get interrupted, you just, like, throw that bookmark in, you open it, it's right where you Left it. And I just loved how when I go to read, it's almost like my brain just immediately is like, hey, we're at a slower pace now. You can ingest this at whatever speed you want to. It's not going anywhere. And I wanted something where people could really think about these concepts in a slower format. I love that.
- [04:47]
A
Okay, you say nap time. Kitchen is everything from kitchen tips to thoughts on motherhood to how to get rid of pinworms. How do you get rid of pinworms?
- [04:54]
B
Oh, you just take Reese's pinworm medication, which you should just always have in stock. I believe it got to the point where I. We had had pinworms a few times, and I kind of became like the local pharmacy. Because the thing about pinworms is, you know, if you're not familiar, they're, you know, parasites that liver on your butt. And so they are active at night. And so if your child gets pinworms, they usually don't come and tell you until, like, close to midnight, because that's when the pinworms strike. And I cannot tell you how many, like, late night texts I've gotten from people being like, do you have pinworm medicine? And I'm like, yes, I do. I will leave it outside my door. Come pick it up. Because it's like, at midnight, you got to figure out where you're trying to get to a pharmacy. That's a whole nother topic, Jenny, but yes.
- [05:45]
A
Well, is this. Is it like. Is it prescription?
- [05:49]
B
No, it's just over the counter.
- [05:50]
A
It's called Reese's. Is it like Reese's Like Reese's cups or spelled different?
- [05:54]
B
I. I can't remember if it's a C or an S, but it's like, very, very similar. All right, but, you know, everybody just doses themselves with the. With the medicine, and it's a big deal.
- [06:04]
A
If your kids aren't sleeping well, that could be part of the reason why. Okay, all right, we'll move on from the pin worms. I just had bolded in my notes because I was like, well, everybody needs to know this. All right, so let's talk this. It's the 10 biggest I wish statements. So we talked about the kitchen, and I just think this whole point of just slightly better. That's what you talk about in the book. It's like, you're like, I. And that's the trap. Right. I would imagine if I had two feet extended, then probably at some point I would be like, well, if I had this, you know, you're talking about how You've got kitchen appliances and things like, scattered all over your house. And you're like, it would be easier if it was all in the same spot. But I think once you get there, then it's like, well, what's the next thing? The goal post keeps moving. But I want to talk about a couple of the I wish statements. So one of them I think people will really relate with is I wish I looked better.
- [06:50]
B
Yes.
- [06:51]
A
So you talk about how this is starting really young. Can you tell people about the Cool Girls Club for your daughter?
- [06:56]
B
Yes. So my, my daughter, Scott. I think that the, you know, body image and everything surrounding it starts at a super young age. And I know that a lot can be exacerbated by social media, but when I was growing up, I didn't, you know, it wasn't a thing. I didn't have a cell phone. I got a phone when I was like 16 or 17 and it was a Nokia, like, you know, push the little button three times to get to the letter. You want. Kind of fun. And, and. But I remember growing up starting to realize that bodies were different sizes and that there was like certain bodies that were more desirable and that I should want to look like whatever that body was. Like, what, what am I seeing? What is Victoria's Secret showing? What are the clothes being modeled on? And just having this desire to look a certain way. So it was like, those signals are there, I feel like, from such a young age. Yeah.
- [07:51]
A
Regardless of social media, irregardless would be the word, right? It doesn't matter. Social media doesn't matter. And I interviewed this woman named Annie F. Downs and she said in elementary school she was watching an old home video and it was from a year before. And then someone was like, oh, look how much thinner you were last year. You know, just like a passing comment. She was like, that just like, you know, changed her whole course. So it's elementary school.
- [08:13]
B
Yes. And I remember in high school losing weight and, and getting just this like positive affirmation, like, you look great. And it really was just so. It's like, okay. And I don't, I really believe. No one was ill intentioned. They, no one was saying, you looked bad before. But in my brain I was like, did I look. So do I look better? Did I look bad before? Is what I was before bad? You know, just all of these, like, thoughts trying to formulate, how does, how do I fit in in this and what do I look like and how am I on this, like, scale range? And so then being a mom it's the story that you're pertaining to at the Cool Girls Club. My daughter was in first grade and she just kind of had this meltdown about really wanting a specific kind of shirt that I just like didn't. We just didn't own it. And I was like we don't own that. And she was very upset with me. And I, you know, come to find out that they had kind of made this club at school and I think really innocently, but just the Cool Girls Club. And whoever was dressed the coolest was the captain of the Cool Girls Club. A lot of alliteration obviously in this club as well. But from just first grade she was like starting to learn there are cool clothes and not cool clothes and this girl's wearing cool clothes and I want to wear clothes like she's wearing. And just this. I really do think a lot of it just comes back this desire to fit in, this desire to be loved of like if I look a certain way, will people like me? If I look a certain way, will I be loved? Is a lot of where I think we, we come to on it.
- [09:48]
A
Yeah, I want to read what she said because this is so sad. She's six. So a six year old like has baby teeth still, you know, often. Yes, it's really, really little. Six is really young. Apparently the girls in her class had started a new game at recess called the Cool Girls Club. And whoever was dressed the coolest got to be the Cool Girls Club captain. Through eyes blurred with tears, Scout told me she had never gotten to be the captain. Apparently she was never dressed cool enough in the first grade. In the first grade. That's, that's hard for a parent. Yeah, you're like wait a minute, darn it. Yeah, I didn't send you in clothes to be the captain. And don't they have a uniform?
- [10:26]
B
Yes, our, our kids school has a horrible uniform in, in that. It's just, it's so loose. It's almost like why do we have it at all? It's not like super structured but so funny you should mention uniform Jenny, because I went to a high school that had a very strict uniform policy. Like shirt, skirt. It was a Catholic high school and so just a very strict uniform policy. But let me tell you what, your shoes mattered. Like there were brands of shoes that you knew were kind of like the brands to wear and it was Dansko Clogs, which is so funny when you think about it, and Wallabies, but it was like those and maybe Sperry's, but even now, like, you know, 30 years later, like, I remember, what were the brands of shoes that were considered, like, this is what the in crowd wears with the uniform. You know, like, we find something even in a uniform. It's like, we will make it about the shoes.
- [11:24]
A
Like, yeah, there's gonna be something. Something that you can have control over. So, okay, in this chapter, you have a lot. You cover a lot in all of these chapters. Like, talking about, I wish I had more friends. I wish I had more money, but in the wish, I look better. I thought this was incredible. So you say your husband is. His father passes away young.
- [11:40]
B
Yes.
- [11:41]
A
And so your husband starts to really take his health into consideration. You're like, he doesn't care what he wears. He just doesn't care about any of this. But he starts to think more about his health. So he's like, okay, you know, I just want to make sure I, you know, if I can have a different outcome than my dad. He's like, so I really. I want to lose 10 pounds, and my hope is that I can lose this 10 pounds over the next 10 years.
- [12:03]
B
Yes. I laughed in his face. I was like, you have got to be kidding me.
- [12:09]
A
But it's so good. It so changed my mindset, Kate, because actually, I'm the type of person that's like, okay, starting tomorrow, I'm gonna walk six miles every day. That's what they do in Okinawa. This is what they do in the blue zones. And I saw this girl yesterday on Instagram. She's like, 50 days. I'm walking 20,000 steps a day. Day one, you know, and I'm like, that is me. And then I'll go out there, and I'll be like, I'm ch. I'm, like, limping. I got a blister on my foot. Like, you know, I just, like, hurts. And so you said your husband. So if we're talking about, like, just investing into our bodies, I actually think that your husband's. I've never considered it. Your husband's approach is the way to go. So can you talk about how it started and then how it grew?
- [12:51]
B
Yes. So Nate very much is like. He is so funny. You could never put, like, a goal on Nate. He would, like, immediately rebel against it. It's just not. Whereas to me, if you would be like, we're to do 50 days, 20,000 steps, I would be like, absolutely. I am signed up. Nate would be like, don't you dare try and tell me how many steps to walk. Like, that's. That's what we're dealing with. And so he just kind of was like, you know what? I'm going to try and run a mile a day. And I was like, do you think, you know, and then you'll grow from there? And he was like, no. Like, I'm just, I'm just going to try around a mile a day. Like, so for years now he runs like a little bit further. But I mean, I'm. He's still. It's like he's not trying to run a half marathon. Like, he doesn't have, like, he's not trying to build towards something. But he just was like, I just figure if I can run a mile. It felt very doable. Like he was like, I can run a mile in under 15 minutes. And so the time. I have the time every morning to do that versus, like, you know, if you're growing it, you. You gotta be adding on time. Yeah. And so it just was like, I. That feels very doable to me. And so he did. He just started to run a mile every day. And then probably like a year, I mean, it was a long time later he was like, I think I'm gonna like try and do a couple push ups, like again, maybe like 10. And then from there he was like, I think I'm gonna. He like, he worked a stressful job and one of his favorite things is at night he would like watch whatever sport was on, pour a little bourbon and like eat a bag of chips or something. And at some point he just like cut out the weeknight bourbon. I. I don't know, like if I. Again, it's. None of these things were like this huge grand plan, but I think by that point the running he wasn't even thinking about anymore. That was just like such a part of what he did.
- [14:35]
A
Yeah.
- [14:35]
B
So again, this is like probably years later, he's like, you know what? I just probably not going to drink like bourbon during the week. Cuts out that. And then at some point he's like, I think I'm going to try and stop snacking so much at night. And we're getting older, so I think probably too, it's like, okay, when I do this, I now have like heartburn. You know, we're getting all the like negative repercussions of things like this, but nothing. It was never this huge, like, I'm going to run, I'm going to stop drinking during the week. I'm going to cut out late night snacking. Like, it didn't happen like that for him. It was very much like almost like when one felt completely formed and then he just had a little freed up space to be like, huh, you know, I don't know if this thing is serving me well anymore.
- [15:16]
A
So good. It's so good, Kate, because actually, like, that makes so much sense. And each thing was so small.
- [15:22]
B
It was so small.
- [15:23]
A
You're like two and a half years later, he's like, you know, I'm going to do this one. I'm going to add 10 pushups. I mean, it is, it's remarkable. And, and to have that long term of 10 years, you know, to think, okay, in 10 years I could be 10 pounds lighter instead of 10 pounds heavier or 20 pounds heavier.
- [15:38]
B
Yes.
- [15:39]
A
Like on this decade, from 30 to 40 or 40 to 50 or 50 to 60, whatever that is. And so I just thought, gosh, it was a really amazing approach. Nate wanted to lose 10 pounds in 10.
- [15:48]
B
Yes.
- [15:49]
A
I, like, this is great.
- [15:50]
B
He had read somewhere that, like, the Average male gains 3 pounds a year starting at like, you know, like. So he was like, you know, the way I see it is in 10 years, I could really realistically gain 20 pounds. Yeah, like, that's pretty common for to happen. And so he's like, if I lose 10 pounds, I'm like, in an incredible place, you know. And again, like, with the, with the little things, he's like, I figure if I'm still running a mile every day at age 40, like, that's going to be great for me, you know, like, again, not like his sights are not set on a marathon. He's just like, if I'm doing these, like, saw small, sustainable things for a decade, like, it's, I, I, that's where he wanted to be. It was really good for me. It was good for me to see, too.
- [16:37]
A
Yeah. I don't know. It's like I walked away from this book with some really practical takeaways. Like, why don't I just get a thinner table? Like, why have I all the time been like, we should bump this wall, this whole wall out. You know, I could get a thinner table and solve this. This is the problem of the kitchen. And it's the only problem of the kitchen. Well, except that the sink is also cracked. That's also a problem. But we have, we managed to hold that off for right now. And then this. It's like, he runs one mile, no more. I thought, gosh, what if? Could I do that? You know, could I do that? And I mean, I don't know what it is. It's like, you're like, no I just gotta jump in and do the 75 hard or whatever it is. And you're like, I don't have, I don't have capacity for that. You know, I don't have all that time or whatever just to make a small change. Never more, just one mile. And then over time and long periods of time, he's adding on. If you're anything like me, your kids can spend hours outside rolling in the grass, digging in the dirt and, and finding every single bug that's in the yard. Honestly, I wouldn't trade it for anything. That's the good stuff, the stuff I want more of. And that's exactly what Earthly believes too. When you love nature, you start to trust it. And that's how they make all their products. Simple, plant based and straight from the earth. Their herbal remedies, lotions, and even cleaning products are made with ingredients you can actually pronounce. No junk, no fillers, no nonsense. I wanted my family surrounded by nature, not chemicals. So using Earthly just made sense. My husband was skeptical until he caught a cold that was going around and I handed him feel Better Fast one night, a few drops and by morning he was hooked. Now he's the one reminding me not to run out. And honestly, they're way more affordable than the over the counter stuff I used to buy. So if you're looking for clean, natural products that actually work and fit real life in really muddy kids, check out earthly.com that's E-A-R-T-H-L-E-Y.com natural living made for real life. You know, sometimes I laugh at all the things I wish I'd done earlier in life. Like buying bitcoin back when it was less than a penny. Or learning to code instead of learning French. Or learning to just let my kids play freely when they were young instead of dragging them to all those enrichment programs. Honestly, I think a lot of us feel that way. We are the FOMO generation, after all. But here's the truth. You don't have to miss out on everything. Protecting your family's future is something you can do today. And it costs about the same per month as one of those streaming services we all forgot to cancel. That's. I'm so glad I found select quote. For over 40 years, they've helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their licensed agents compare plans from top rated companies to find the policy that fits for your health, your lifestyle and your budget. And they do it for free. Even better, many families get covered the same day, up to $2 million worth, sometimes with no medical exam required. And if you've got health conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, you are not out of luck. Select Quote works with companies that specialize in that too. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50%@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours save more than 50% on term life insurance@SelectQuote.com 1000 hours today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com 1000 hours you know how the mornings are starting to get that extra little chill. I've noticed it every time I head out the door. And lately I keep grabbing my lightweight down puffer jacket from Quince and it's warm, it's light and it's become my go to layer. Cooler days really do call for layers that last and Quince is where I find those essentials that feel cozy, look refined and don't blow my budget. Think 50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters, premium denim that fits like a dream, and luxe outerwear you'll wear year after year. These aren't one season pieces, they're the kind of staples that quickly become your fall uniform. Right now I'm eyeing their wool coats. They look totally designer, but the price tag is just a fraction and honestly, the quality quality is just as good, if not better. Here's why. Quince partners directly with top tier ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen so you get true luxury quality at half the price of similar brands. If you are ready for a wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless, find your fall staples at quince. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside I want to stick in this one just for a little bit longer. I just wish I looked better. You talked about mirrors and there's this book called the Body Project Book talking about when home started to get mirrors. And I talked recently to a man who had like been out in the wilderness for a couple weeks. He's like I didn't see my face for three weeks. And he's like it was actually really good for me. We are in this society where we're constantly seeing ourselves.
- [21:19]
B
Yes.
- [21:20]
A
And so maybe there's something to think about there. Like how many mirrors are in Your home. I. We have a big mirror when we moved in. It's in our bedroom. It's like a full. It's like attached to the wall. Someh.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah.
- [21:30]
A
I don't know, because I'm not good at interior design. It's just up there. And it was already up there when we moved in. And I thought, gosh, it'd be interesting. Like, what. I wonder what's behind that. Like, what would happen if I took it down? So just a thought there. Okay. But I want to hit this Botox.
- [21:44]
B
Yes.
- [21:45]
A
And here's what you talk about. So I've not done Botox because don't you have to put a needle in your face?
- [21:51]
B
You do.
- [21:52]
A
Okay. I don't know.
- [21:54]
B
You're like, I'm dying.
- [21:55]
A
But what. But what you said is. And this is what was so easy, so interesting that it's like, we don't have this level playing field. And so you feel like, in order, like some people are just like their skin, it's just like wrinkling up. You know, that's what's going on for some people. And then for other people, it's like, well, it's almost. I don't know. Cheating is not the right word. But it's more like I. I feel like you worded it really well. The playing field is so uneven. Some are aging, while others faces are quite literally frozen in time. Aging would be so much easier if we all agreed to do it together.
- [22:30]
B
Yeah.
- [22:30]
A
Like, no one getting cell phones until 8th grade. But then if someone cheats, then it makes it hard for everybody else. So what's your opinion for women, especially on this whole aging thing? I'm constantly like, if I'm on a social media, anything, my phone is constantly feeding me products for, like, my skin to look better.
- [22:49]
B
Yeah. And just for anyone that is listening to this or you don't see my face or whatever, I get Botox. So in this chapter, I'm like, like, in my head, I'm like, I. You know, in some circles that I run in, I'm like the last person to have gotten it. Everybody's getting it. It's like, it's as common as, like, teeth whitening. It's just something you do. And then in other circles, like, nobody's getting it. Like, it's just so. I think a lot of this is very much like, who you're around and just how common it is. Like, it. And so it. It for me, when I'm writing this, like, this is where I kind of call the book, like, this book is in no way a memoir. It is very much like journal. And I am working out, like, gosh, what are my thoughts on this? Like, what. How do I want to go about aging? And, like, what's the line? Do you not get Botox, but you do chemical peels? Or do you, you know, like, do you buy really expensive face products because you're. You are trying to help your skin age? Well, like, there's some line for everybody, I'm sure of, like, I won't do this, but I will color my hair, or I'm not going to color my hair. I'm going to let my ha. Go gray naturally. And it's funny what different people decide is, you know, where their line is. And I do. I think there's so much, like, grace for what you as a woman is processing through, like, postpartum. You know, do you. Do you have, like, a really bad C section scar that you're, like, desiring to change? Or some people be like, oh, you should never do that. Like, there's just so many personal parts of the female body, and especially I think, through childbearing that just get, like, kind of rocked. But the big thing I kind of come back to in this chapter, well, a couple of things, and it kind of goes a lot with the looking better. But when I look at my mom, who has not had any work done, like, I just feel like her face is telling such a story of the life she lived. And she would probably. I. I think she would not mind me saying. Like, she probably struggles with, like, oh, my gosh, look at my wrinkles. Like, look at my skin on my face looking looser than it used to. Like, you know, she's aging gracefully, But I don't think that makes it easy by any means. Like, her hair is gray. You know, she is looking older than she used to. But there's just something about, like, I just keep coming back to, like, our bodies are meant to tell the story of the life we lived. And I think we so desperately almost want them to be, like, separate from the life we lived. It's kind of funny I haven't made this connection in my own brain. This is, like, real time processing. But in the home chapter, I talk a lot about how, like, your home is meant to very much be a representation of the stage of life you're in. Like, it is meant to be used well. And we get really frustrated when we try and, like, shove our life stage into a home that we expect to look differently than our life stage. Like, I want my House to be beautiful and pretty, pristine and white countertops. And it's like, well, girlfriend, you got four kids. It's just the decision to get a white couch and white walls might not be best for you. And so it's like, okay, I can either make that decision and then have to guard my couch. Like, oh, please, nobody. No shoes on the couch. Please get off. Or I can just get a couch that's maybe not white and have an easier life with the couch. And it's in that I'm really talking about, like, use your home. And I. I guess if I, like, pull that analogy more to, like, your body is your home, like, it should tell the story of the life that we're living in it, you know? And so I'm 36, so I don't have, like, the most wisdom on this, but I do think that I am probably the average age of a lot of people listening, that you probably in real time are like, okay, I'm getting gray hairs. I'm getting wrinkles. Things in my body don't look how they used to. And just really trying to come to grips with, like, what do I value in this? What. What am I trying. What am I trying to get out of this? What is my end goal?
- [27:03]
A
I. It is interesting, though. I think that's an interesting point, Kate, because on so many of the chair, in so many of the chapters, and this is. I. This is where I stand with it. And I don't know if other people would relate to this or not, but, you know, when I talk about the kitchen, for me, it's like, it would just be easier. It makes life easier. It makes life easier when you look a certain way. And that's just sort of the way of the world, right? Like, it's a. It's an easier path. People treat you differently. It is what it is. And I remember when I hit my teen years, my mom used to say that we would go out different places, and she would be like, people are treating us so differently than when I'm by myself. And, you know, it's an interesting thing about the way the world is. And so, you know, it's. It's easier, I think, because you feel a little bit more confident. Maybe it's easier to slip into a new friend group. It's easier to. Or whatever. But then also, on the other hand, Kate, I had read this research study about people who. They had used makeup to make their face look like they had scars or some deformations. They use, like, makeup. Like, makeup artists come in and they Put these on these people, and then they're going to go out into the world with their face looking like this and. And see how people react. Well, unbeknownst to these subjects, these test subjects, they did. They ended up taking it off before they go out into the world. So it's actually just their normal face. They don't have the things on them. But they would talk about how people reacted to them based off of them thinking that they had these deformities on their face. And they were like, people didn't treat me well. And it was this whole thing, and really it wasn't there. And so I think about that a lot. Like you. Is it really how I'm being perceived or is it how I think I'm being perceived? And that was challenging, and I don't know what to do with it. But, you know, like, it. Would it make a difference if I was like, well, my face probably looks like it did get Botox, even though I haven't, you know, or whatever. I don't know. But. But it is true that in the world, you are treated differently based on your appearance, to a degree. And what do you do with that as you start to age? I did. I met this woman who is a runner. Like an actual, like, legit marathon runner. So she's real thin and fit, but her hair is totally gray. And people are constant. Like, I cannot tell how old she is because she, like, kind of looks really young, but she's got this really gray hair. And she said, I want people to know that I'm older so that they know I can be trusted, you know, or, like, you can come to me for wisdom. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot to grapple with there. So people can read it. You say at the end. In the end, it's an uphill battle that is ultimately lost. You talk about looking the age that you are, so I just wish I looked better. There's a lot there. We just spent half this episode on that one chapter because there's a lot there, but I want to hit a couple more. Okay. So one of the ones you talk about is, I just wish I had more money. Now we are trying to go outside, and when you go outside, I don't. You don't need that much money. It makes your life so fulfilled, and it doesn't cost much. Often you're taking food you're going to have to eat anyway, and so it adds all this richness to your life that's not all that expensive, but you're talking about when you grew up, you were like, there was all these status symbols. So you get this pair of seven jeans and you're like, this is amazing. I've got this amazing pair of jeans. And then you go off to college and your roommate's like, hey, I need to borrow a pair of jeans. And you're like, I have some sevens. And she's like, which of the seven pairs am I supposed to grab? So can you talk about how like status symbols only matter depending on who you're around?
- [30:30]
B
Yes, it is so true that yes, you shared the story perfectly. I grew up in downtown Charleston, South Carolina and it's, you know, just an affluent area. Like the, the king street of Charleston has really nice shopping on it. Like if you were to go down there right now, there is Louis Vuitton and Gucci and then also, you know, like madewell, like you're gonna have a gambit. But it's, it always had just this, these very nice stores. And it's, you know, been there since I grew up in Charleston. So it's been there forever. And you just like. I think I just knew about certain things early on. And so for me, seven jeans were these jean, this Jean brand that was like a nicer Jean brand and it had a little red tag on the back. It's so funny because it's the same as like. And now you can get a purse with an L and a V on it or you know, like it was just this symbol. They were not nearly as expensive as Louis Vuitton, but I just knew that they were something to be desired and that like the girls that wore them very similar to my daughter were in the cool girls club, that the cool Girls club was going to have these jeans. And so that's what I wanted for my birthday. And so my dad took me birthday shopping and I think he really believed like, I'm gonna buy Kate like a couple of outfits. We're gonna have a good time. After one pair of jeans. He was like, okay, well that was, was, that was the money for the whole. That was it. You know, they were like close to 200 jeans. Which is embarrassing when I, you know, crazy to think about for a 15 year old girl, you know.
- [32:03]
A
Well, but then kids are getting $1,000 phones.
- [32:06]
B
So I mean, you're right, you're right, it's so true. And so then when I go to college, my friend has like never even heard of it and I was like, oh, this tag on my jeans means like nothing in this atmosphere. All of a Sudden this, like, currency is just. Just devalued completely. Like, she could care less what is on the back of my jeans. Her jeans in her closet are like, I don't. I don't even remember where they were from, you know, but it just wasn't important. And so it's really interesting, I think, again, kind of with that, what we were saying with aging, like, who you're around can have so much to do with your concept of wealth and whether you feel like, man, I'm doing, I'm. I have so much, or if you're looking around being like, oh, everybody else has more than me. It's such a dangerous mind game to play to just pit yourself against who you're around versus looking at, like, is what I have for my family enough? Are we making it work versus just wanting what you see around you?
- [33:08]
A
It's so tricky because then you talk in this book, it's called I Just Wish I had a Bigger Kitchen. You talk about how the. So that social media has completely changed it. Because pre social media, you talk about your grandma or moms, whatever.
- [33:19]
B
Yeah.
- [33:20]
A
Or even us, maybe like a long time ago that they didn't have to compare to so many people. Certainly they would have had their neighbors. But the social media, you say it opens me up to hundreds, if not thousands of new people to keep up with new homes, to peek inside. This was not something my grandmother dealt with. She likely saw the homes of a few close friends, and she would have seen the homes of acquaintance, of acquaintances even less often. In fact, I was talking to someone about this was a long time ago, and I just thought of this now, Kate. They do, and I don't know, they do this near where you live. But where we live, there's a really beautiful little town. It's called Northville. And you can go on a Christmas home tour in Northville. So, you know, some people, and people do that for garden tours too. But this, you can go on the home tour. And I talked to someone one time and I was like, we should. Like, that's so fun. You get to go tour and they've got like a player piano and it's all decorated. And this person was like, I don't want to go because it makes me feel really bad about the state of my own home. And I thought, oh, that's actually really why. That would have been the only way, though, in some errors eras, to see other people's homes. Now, like, you get on social media and you're like, oh, my gosh, these people have this entryway, and there's a ball hanging there, and you're like, I would have never seen anything like that where I live, you know, or whatever. So, I mean, it's interesting. You talk about comparing up and comparing down, and so often we're comparing up, you know, to the people that have more.
- [34:39]
B
Yes.
- [34:40]
A
So it's real tricky. It's real. I mean, what do you think is kind of an answer to that?
- [34:44]
B
That. Yeah. Well, especially, I would say on social media, one thing that's interesting is, like, I went to a friend's house the other day. She has a beautiful home, beautiful kitchen. But when I walk in, I can also look to the left and see this, like, little corner of her kitchen where it is, like, everything. There's, like, books that need to be returned to the library, a pair of shoes that a neighbor left her son's baseball clothes to get out the door. Like, all of the, like, piles that. That we just have in order to. To just function, you know, we all do have. No matter how organized you are, there's just certain piles of, like, returns, the mail, all these types of things. But on social media, you almost have, like, blinders to those. Somebody can just show you their pretty section and not you. You don't have that, like, 360 to turn and see, like, the pile of clothes. Like, I even know if I'm, like, gonna show an outfit. It's like, I desperately want to be like, oh, let me, like, like, take the piles, like, out of the. You know, move them out of the frame. But, yeah, you know, that's just, like, our desire is to do that. And so I think. I think there has to be. I think you. One thing.
- [35:49]
A
You.
- [35:49]
B
You have to know yourself. Like your friend that was like, I don't think I should go on that home tour. I'm, like, really good on her to just know. Like, this is a specific trigger for me, and I need to have good barriers in place, like, good boundaries for what I struggle with. And she might be like, I could look at girls in. Working out in cute bathing suits all day. Like, I'm not struggling with my body image, but this is hard for me. And so I know that this is probably not something that I should walk into. So I think really knowing ourselves is huge. And just being like, okay, if there's an account that I see often, and every time I do, I leave being frustrated with myself. Like, it's probably a good idea to mute that account for a while. Like, just give yourself. Do it for yourself. Just be kind to yourself in that way. Like, don't force yourself to see something that's. That's causing a lot of hardship for you.
- [36:47]
A
Yeah.
- [36:48]
B
But, you know, in. In this chapter, I talk a lot about, like, I do think when I really reflect on our life, Nate and I, and we've, like, lived in rental homes. We. When he was in law school, we were living, like, on the cheapest budget that we could. Like, I was shopping at Trader Joe's and sales at Kroger. But when I look back at that season, our life was really rich in a lot of ways. And there were certain things that I. I almost feel like I enjoyed more because I hustled harder to get them. Like, there was such a joy in, like, a Facebook marketplace find and being like, oh, I have been wanting this so bad. And when I found it, there was. It's almost like an amplifying of joy. And I remember learning in school about the, like, law of diminishing returns and diminishing satisfaction. And the teacher had us, like, eat M&M's and it was almost like you ate five and they were delicious, but by the time you got to 10, they just, like, weren't as good anymore. And I. I do think they're. So there's something there with wealth. Not to say like, oh, more money, you just get. So, like, I. I hope I don't lose people on the analogy.
- [38:03]
A
I. No, no, I think. I mean, all the books say this. They say beyond. If you. If you are at a spot where you can live without fear, you're not paycheck to paycheck necessarily. Like, you can feed and clothe your family that beyond a certain level. And obviously it would probably depend on how big your family is and where you live in the country. So there's no, like, like, probably exact dollar amount. But once you're at that spot, that it. It really does not increase your happiness once you go above and often adds other problems.
- [38:30]
B
Yes, I know. I do. I think there's, like, there is a certain joy in withholding, like, things that you want. Like, if you're on a budget and you're like, I really, really want this item, but I can't buy it right now, and I'm going to save. And then, like, I do think there is a greater joy out of things that we work for or that we save for. Like, I think you get more joy out of them than you might realize. And I think in your head, you're like, I just wish I could buy everything right now, but I. I do Think that it just wouldn't, it really wouldn't hit you like you think it would. And you might look around, you know, and be like, oh, all these people with all these things. If I had all those things. But I promise you, it's, it's like you would get them, but they're. You would just be hungry for more. It's just an unfortunate side effect of how our hearts are, I think, like.
- [39:24]
A
Yeah.
- [39:25]
B
So I think that there's a lot of lies that we believe around wealth and what it will buy us. That given the opportunity, you would find it really isn't the case.
- [39:38]
A
Yeah. You talk about how a hundred dollars doesn't hold the same value that it once did. I mean, and everybody, I think, can relate to that. That, you know, I guess, or probably most people, you know, that when you're, if you're 19 years old and so, you know your grandma sends you a hundred dollars. Our grandma always gave us 20. I was like, grandma, come on. Time's all right. Changing, you know, whatever. You get 100 bucks, you're like, this is a lot of money. And then, you know, maybe you're 40 and you're like, a hundred dollars doesn't seem like as much money anymore. You know, that's something to think about. You say the more money I had, the less joy each dollar was able to bring me. It's not that more money was bad. It just didn't equate to more joy like you might expect. You know, healing takes courage, but it also takes the right support. And sometimes it even takes a puppy. Capstone wellness is unlike anything I've ever seen. For over 24 years, Capstone has helped thousands of families by combining faith, clinical excellence, and some truly creative approaches to healing. At Capstone Treatment center, teen boys and young men struggling with trauma, mental health or addiction are given something extraordinary. A Labrador retriever puppy. On admission, that puppy stays with them through the program and goes home with them when they graduate. It's not just a dog. It's a partner in responsibility, in attachment, and in bringing families back together. And if residential care isn't what you're looking for, vine and Roots intensives offer individuals, couples and families months of world class counseling packed into just a few concentrated days. It's designed to trace hurt back to the roots and begin real healing. Healing is possible. Start your journey today@capstonewellness.com 1000 hours. That's capstonewellness.com 1000hours. You know what I love about this time of year? The air gets crisp the days feel cozier, and suddenly I realize, oh, right, the entire family is coming over. Hosting is such a joy, but it can also feel like a marathon if your home isn't quite ready. This year, I got ahead of it all with Wayfair, and honestly, I don't know why I waited so long. I found the cutest light fixture, some rent wreaths and a new comforter set for our guest room for when our son's friend came and stayed with us for a week. And that made it feel like a little bed and breakfast. Everything came fast, shipping was free, and it all looked even better in person. Wayfair really has everything you need to make your home holiday ready, like Christmas trees, cookware, throw blankets, twinkle lights, even those little touches that make your guests say, wow. Whether you're hosting family dinners, cozy movie nights, or welcoming guests from out of town, Wayfair makes it easy to make your space shine without blowing the budget. So don't wait until the week before Christmas. Start now, enjoy the process and make your home a place you can truly settle into this season. Get organized, refreshed, and ready for the holidays. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, Every home.
- [42:25]
B
This episode is brought to you by Marshalls, where you never have to compromise between quality and price. The buyers of Marshalls hustle hard working to bring you great deals on brand name and designer pieces because Marshalls believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff. Visit a Marshalls store near you or shop online@marshalls.com.
- [42:48]
A
And then you talk about this and it's, it's not from you, but you quote it in the book the Hardest. And I don't, I didn't write down who it's from. The hardest financial skill is getting the goal post to stop moving. I thought that was huge. And then one other thing that you said was that when you look around and I think this is maybe the key to the whole book. I wish I had this. I wish I had this. That there is this belief that goes along with the wishing that that person is getting more out of life. And that's kind of the opposite of what, like, that's, that's what you were just saying. You're like, you know what, you get a lot of things out of life when you find that thing you really were looking for on Facebook. Marketplace place. Yeah, as opposed to just like, I went to the store and bought It.
- [43:30]
B
Yes.
- [43:30]
A
I was like, the thrill of the hunt. So that. That type of thing. Can you. There was one other section in this that I was actually pretty interested in because you hear about this a lot. You hear about how drugs are a really big issue for affluent kids. There's a book by Dr. Madeline Levine called the Price of Privilege, and she talks about some of the struggles that affluent kids can have just because they're pushed, often pushed really hard, these different sets of expectations. I'm sure it's not across the board, but interesting things to think about. And this is one of the things that you hear a lot about, is that these kids that come from money, a lot of them are struggling with drugs. Why is that?
- [44:07]
B
I think in the book I write, and this is not coming from market research, so please don't hear me saying I'm an expert in it at all. But I was like. I think I said, like, I totally get why you would go to that. Because I think that you have the money to buy the things that you want, but you buy them and they don't fill you, and so then you're still looking for the next thing. And so I was like, it totally makes sense to me that you would turn to something that would make you feel alive because you've been using money and you've, like. I don't know, you've bought it. You've bought nice clothes, you go to the nice places, you can afford whatever you want to eat, but you're still just, like, empty. Like, it's. It really is. Does not fill you like you believe it will. And so I don't. I just understand why you would then turn to something else to be like, well, none of these things are filling me, so I'll just try this. Whereas I think I can see how people that couldn't afford it would say, no, the jeans. I know it keeps coming back to jeans, but it's like, whatever it is, like, no, that would fill me. And these guys over here are like, no, it really won't. It just doesn't, you know? So I think there's a lot. A lot of misconceptions just around the joy, again, that you believe that money will bring. And, you know, again, like, I think you. You already said it. It's like, we're not. There is a level of money where you feel safe. And so I'm not talking about someone that's like, no, I'm. I'm living in fear that we will not be able to pay our rent.
- [45:34]
A
Right?
- [45:35]
B
That is not How I'm talking to. There is a joy that would come with feeling safe to pay your bills. But I think that the. The audience that I'm talking to has all of their needs met, but is still believing.
- [45:49]
A
Yeah. And I just wish I had a little bit more.
- [45:51]
B
Yes.
- [45:51]
A
Yeah.
- [45:52]
B
Yes.
- [45:52]
A
I had read recently about the. The skill of learning to make do with what you have. I thought, yes, like that. No one talks about that, but that is a skill, and what a good one to have. I mean, it is really. This book is pretty thin. Like, I just wish I had a better kitchen. It's a fairly thin book. So, you know, there's these 10 wishes, and I, like, got so much out of each chapter in this one you're talking about, you know, you get rich. You feel like, man, I've made it. But then you move to a richer neighborhood, and all of a sudden you're poor again.
- [46:19]
B
Yeah.
- [46:19]
A
So it's that. It's that looking around, and all of a sudden, you know, you could be going on a Christmas home tour every single day of the year through social media.
- [46:27]
B
So.
- [46:28]
A
Same thing with the mirrors. Same thing here. It's like, what are we looking at and what are we spending our time on? And how is that making us feel? Do we feel like these other people are getting more out of life? Then you talk about how savers versus spenders actually are very similar, and I never thought about that, Kate. Like, the saver never feels like they can save enough, and the spender never feels like they can spend enough. You know, it's just interesting things to think about. So. Yeah, that's one of the wishes. I wanted to hit one more. There's so many good ones. There's 10 of them in here, and I related to all of them. Even though, like I said, I feel like I'm, like, mostly content. I mean, I was like, no, I relate to this. You know, I relate to that thing. And. And also, it's just something to be on the lookout for. Okay. One of the. One of the ones is I just wish I had more friends. Which is relatable because, you know, we're in this loneliness epidemic. But one of the things you talked about was the meal train. So. Okay, so this is the thing. It is a total thing that when you have a baby, we've had different, like, because we've had some ups and downs with church, and, like, we've moved. So at some point you're like, man, I got six weeks of meals out of that kid, you know, in a different situation. So you talk about you're in this situation where you moved, and you're like, I don't have as many friends. So you're like, this meal train is actually kind of embarrassing. And then. And then you were like, okay, I'm kind of already embarrassed. And someone called me to be like, I can bring you a meal. So you added it to the meal train.
- [47:53]
B
Yes.
- [47:53]
A
Which is so funny to me because it's like, well, two decades ago, which is like, whoever brings you meals brings you meals. You schedule it in. Like, nobody knows who's bringing what and how many friends you have and how many meals you're getting. But now, because it's so apparent, you're like, okay, if anybody calls me on the side, I'm adding it.
- [48:09]
B
Yes.
- [48:10]
A
So can you talk about, I guess, the. That. That part of. That. The part of a kind of everybody knowing. I mean, we've added all these numbers to friendships. How many followers do you have? How many comments are you getting? Like. And then even down to the meal train.
- [48:26]
B
Yes. So it's so funny. I was, like, pretty embarrassed to add this to the book that I was like, it is. Is. I've got to do it. Like, I. In the moment, I was like, you are crazy. Like, as I was doing it, I.
- [48:38]
A
Was like, kate, you are so relatable.
- [48:40]
B
The amount of women that have said, like, hey, I totally related to the meal train story. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so glad other people are doing this kind of thing like me. But basically, the meal train felt like this very public declaration of people that liked me enough to bring me a meal. And so I was very concerned that if I had a lot of spots and then someone somewhere to click and be like, oh, I'm gonna bring Kate a meal. They would go, oh, man, she's got a lot of dates available. Like, just meeting, like, maybe I don't.
- [49:11]
A
Really want to be her friend. Yeah.
- [49:13]
B
Like, she. There's not that many people signed up, which was just. I think it's actually a thing.
- [49:21]
A
I think that there would be people that would be like, wait, wait a minute. She has less friends than I thought she did. Is she weird? Like, is there something. I don't know. I. There meant some people wouldn't care at all. Some people would be like, well, probably they just haven't signed up yet.
- [49:33]
B
Yet.
- [49:33]
A
But I do think there might be people that would be just a quick pause, you know?
- [49:37]
B
Yes. And I just felt so insecure about it, and I think I said, like, my. My ego was as fragile as the newborn I was holding. Like, I just was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. Anna. Yeah. I'm like newly postpartum having, having this conversation with myself. But I do. I think there is. There is so much around a desire. Well, there's two desires. One I think is a. Again, just wanting to feel liked and, and wanting to feel like other people know you're liked. Like, hey, like people like me. And that's kind of the meal train of like, hey, like people like me. But then there is also the like, true desire for belonging and friendship.
- [50:22]
A
Oh, that's so funny. I thought you were gonna say the meal. I was like, yes, because there is. There's also that.
- [50:29]
B
There's also. And there's also the meal that you would like to have. But this chapter was probably the hardest for me to write, but I. It has been the most talked about chapter. And I, I was really Nate afterward. He was like, why do you think it's resonating so much? And I was like, you know what? I think it's because kind of like we've already talked about body image, aging women are talking about those things. People are like, hormone replacement therapy, wrink, Botox, all that kind of stuff. And then money and like, maybe your husband. Things like that. Like, we maybe are a little bit more prone to talk about. But I am never with a group of women that are like, hey, like, is anybody else feeling a little insecure if nobody texted you back today, like, you're just not. Or no one's saying, or. We feel weird to be like, okay, there was a birthday dinner that happened. I saw a photo of it. We're not going to ask, hey, is there a reason I wasn't invited? Like, you know, but we feel it. We're. We're grappling with it, but we don't ask it. And I, I just think that there is so much going on in our hearts. We. We see it in our kids when they're making friends and, you know, but they, they're pretty, like, unashamedly, like, you want to hang out again tomorrow? You want to hang out again the next day. Like, once they find a friend, they're like, pretty cool to hang out every day. But I think when we get to be adults, we. We feel like the. This weird social. Like, okay, I loved hanging out with you the other day. Is it weird if I ask you to hang out again this week? Are we allowed to hang out twice in a week? Like, what's. Do I look needy?
- [52:02]
A
There's all these, like, it's nuanced.
- [52:05]
B
It's so. There's so much nuance and then there's so much like just wanting to know, do you like me? Could we be friends? And I just think it's very tender and, you know, I. Depending on, like, like where you move. Like, you might move to a place where you're having to start over. And so then it's like a brand new thing that you're having to build. Or you might have friends that you've had forever, but life changes. And now it's like, okay, we were really close when we were younger, but now I like, our lives are really different. I. I don't know if we have the same friendship we used to. I'd like to make some new friends. Just whatever it is. I just think it is very, very vulnerable for women. But it's like, especially after writing it and hearing from women, it is one of the biggest things that women are dealing with. And like you said, like, the. Just the loneliness and the desire to be known, to have people to talk to. I think especially at our age where a lot of women, not everyone, but if you've been married a while, you're really realizing, okay, love my husband, but he cannot be my only friend. Like, I. Oh, yeah, sure. Female friendship.
- [53:14]
A
Arthur Brooks talks about that. And he talks about it for the men as well.
- [53:17]
B
Yes.
- [53:17]
A
That the ones who they say their best friend is their wife, they. I don't know. I don't know if this is true. I think this is what it said. It's like they die earlier. It's not. They're not as happy. Certainly it's that I can't quite remember exactly what it was about. Like, if he had a whole thing. Like, if you ask men who their best friend is, if it's their wife and that's their only friend, there's a problem. There's a problem there. But then this is tricky. It all ties together because you're talking about, like, what does your home look like? And you know, do you. Have you done the Botox? And you would think I loved actually what you said. You said you were talking about your daughter in the cool girls club and you were like, 28 years later and I'm still fighting the same battles. I remember showing up to church one time. This would have been like. This would have been like maybe a decade ago or a little bit longer. It was like when those tall boots were really in style. Everyone wore those tall boots. And I remember showing up to church and There was, like, a group of probably 12 women that were about my age. They were all standing on, and all of them were wearing those tall boots, and I wasn't. And I was like, this is bizarre. Like, we are still the same as we were, you know, back in high school, where every. Even though you would feel like you would say, I am independent and I, you know, and I am my own person and I am confident, but, like, you know, you're all still wearing the same outfit.
- [54:34]
B
Yeah.
- [54:34]
A
So it just. It is. It is vulnerable, and it's tricky. And then when you become a mom, then you've got to add in, like, do our kids get along? Do our husbands get along?
- [54:43]
B
Yeah.
- [54:43]
A
You know, and now I'm busy with this, and you're busy with that, and I've got this sport, and you've got dance, and, you know, how are we going to make these friendships work? And so I just wish I had more friends.
- [54:53]
B
Yes, it's hard.
- [54:54]
A
You say the. It's hard, and the Internet has only made it more so.
- [54:57]
B
Yes, I know. And I. I think that there's a lot of beautiful things that have come from the Internet in terms of, like. Like, if you have a child dealing with something, it can be really. Maybe if you lived in a small town and you were like, okay, my child's dealing with something hard, and I don't know anybody else whose child's dealing with this. The Internet was a place where you could find a community of like, wow. I know a ton of other women in all over the country that are trying different things to help whatever issue their child's having. You know, like, name it. You could find these pockets of community. So there is, like, a beautiful connection that the Internet can bring. But I think that also you've got. There's a lot that comes up when you see, like I said, you see a photo of a friend's birthday dinner that you might not have ever known even happened.
- [55:46]
A
Yeah. You wouldn't have known.
- [55:48]
B
And you're like, oh, everyone was together and I wasn't included.
- [55:53]
A
Yeah. And I think it's sometimes catty to post it, and I think people do it on purpose. You know, my mom's talked about that, so I'm like, you know, she's talked about. It's just interesting because she's, like, of a different generation, but just, like, being kind of careful about what you post. Like, you know, does everybody in the world need to see that you went to that, or can you just kind of, like, keep that to yourself or, you know, can you wait to post it and then, like, include it down the road? And I think that's pretty thought provoking. It's interesting, Kate, because the book has. I found I felt like it had subtle answers woven all the way through it of little things that you could grab. So that was one. Like the. The one about the one mile a day. That's it. No more, no less. In 10 years, I'm gonna be 10 pounds lighter, and that's all I'm gonna do, you know? Or, like, maybe I should smash this mirror in my bedroom. Or just not, like, could we not look at ourselves so much? Or, you know, these different things. It was interesting how many topics were woven into one topic. So, you know, she got the topic of I wish I had a better husband. And there's a lot of topics woven in there, like, how can you do date night? And how can you communicate better? And then you're like, you know, I. I wish I was a better mom. You're talking about regrets and also, like, like the insane amount of choices. So there's a lot of things open in. But I think one of the things that I took out of it was, can you be the one at least sometimes that, like, is okay to not get swept up in it all if. If only for the sake of influencing another person. Because one of the things you talked about was your friend Meg, and you're like, I go to her house, and it was just lived in, and you liked it there. So I thought. Fact. I think the. The goal is. Is like, can I be like Nate and be content with one mile a day? Or can I be like Meg and have this place that's welcoming but lived in and not apologize for the state of it? So can you talk about. Is. Was that kind of like your goal was to have all these, like, little tidbits of things to grab? Was there an overall one?
- [57:53]
B
Yeah. Oh, good question. I think my goal was probably to have the tidbits because it was like, stories that had marked me. Like, story. Like, I remember we. We had not lived in Charleston that long. And I remember going to Meg's house, the story she's talking about. We go over there for an Easter egg hunt, and it is just like the kids bedrooms, like, they are not color coordinated, whatever their child is, like, into. That's like the poster on the wall and the, you know, quilt that doesn't match anything because it's got spider man on it because the sun loves spider man right now. Like, just there. It was such a reflection of who they were. And then I. I shared that she made, like, one of the best salads I've ever eaten. And she made it in a very small, like, tiny. Her. Her kitchen was just really small. And I just remember thinking, like, wow, she did everything that I want to do, and she did it in a small space. And her kids just feel so at home in their house. And that's, like, what I really care about is that my children would just feel, like, safe and at home in our house.
- [59:02]
A
Yeah.
- [59:02]
B
And I just left being like, gosh, it just was a story that left such a mark on me. And so I love storytelling. And so I really think the book was like, man, these are some big, overarching things that I'm dealing with. With. And here are stories from my life that have really marked and shaped how I'm processing and thinking about them now.
- [59:24]
A
This is what you did. It is what you did because. And it is. It's called Simple Mindset Shifts. Because the stories are what you connect with. You have a story about how you soak your smoothie cup in the sink, which I do, too. And if you soak something in the sink, then the stuff comes out later. But my husband does not like soaking stuff in the sink. So you, like, connect to these different stories, and it, like, it inspires you to want to be a little bit more like this and in a good way. Not in the comparative. I. I might have a better life if I had more money or if I were thinner or if I botoxed my face or whatever. It's like, if I were a little bit more grounded in who I am and what I have, that would lead to a better life for me and also would probably permeate out. And I want to read one little section here so people can kind of. It's really good writing. This isn't. I just wish I was a better moment mom. And I just want to read this section because it's about, like, how many decisions moms have to make. So you say, herein lies one of a million small decisions my mom made. Talking about your piano lessons like, you wish you wouldn't have quit, but your mom had to make this decision. Whatever. So then you say, we live in an area where the conversation of where your child will go to middle school feels equivalent to where they will go to college. Nate didn't grow up this way. His hometown was one public school. Everyone went there. But in Charleston, there are zoned public schools in a myriad of charter and magnet schools. Each year, there's school choice system where it's like a lottery. You put your name in a giant along with thousands of other kids and hope your kid's name gets pulled for the school you want. It's a total crapshoot. Some schools are great for elementary, but the middle school is awful. For others, it's the opposite. So we've got this kid entering into fourth grade, and it's a middle school. What are we going to do? There's public school, there's private school, there's charter school, there's magnet school, there's boarding school, there's homeschool. You know, you want to give them a good education, but there's just all of these decisions that you have to make. And then you're talking about how it's like, no pressure, babies don't keep, and you only get 18 years, and you. And you're gonna miss it. And you just do such an incredible job of hitting all of the relatable topics of life as I think an adult, especially as an adult woman, of, like, I hope I don't regret, and I hope I don't make mistake. And then who am I outside of this motherhood job? And I got a lot out of it. I got a lot out of, you know, in that story, you're like, well, Nate's dad was like, he didn't even have any fruit in the house.
- [61:33]
B
House.
- [61:34]
A
But Nate felt really loved because he always answered the phone when Nate called, and he was always really happy. My parents are so happy when we come home, when we come over, they're. They're pretty. Not busy. Like, it's really interesting. I think about that as, like, they're retired, you know, and I think a lot of people get busy. They travel a lot. But, like, our parents are pretty around. Like, hey, can, you know, can this one come over and spend the night? Sure. You know, they're available and they'll. They'll drop plans, you know, if, like, we're free. And. And so it just goes to. You make you think, like, what really makes you feel loved as a child. As an adult child, you're like, it's not. It's not where they put you in at school.
- [62:12]
B
Yeah.
- [62:12]
A
It's not whether they chose charter or private or magnet or homes. It's not that, you know, it's. It's.
- [62:18]
B
It's.
- [62:19]
A
Do you feel loved? And then that shapes your identity. So it was really deep. Kate. I'm as interesting. I was really drawn to it from the title because I was like, I don't care about my kitchen Then I was like, yeah, I do wish it was, like, two feet bigger on one side. I just really, really enjoyed it. So I so appreciate your time. The book is called I just wish I had a bigger kitchen. Simple mindset shifts to love the life you already have. I just. Whoa, there's two. There's, like, two subtitles. I'm trying again. I just wish I had a bigger kitchen. And other lies I think will make me happy. Simple mindset shifts to love the life you already have. It's available wherever you buy your books. Kate. We always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
- [62:57]
B
Oh, it's such a good question, by the way. I just love it. I am so. Because I grew up in Charleston, my dad is an avid boater. And, like, we were just always around boats. And there was this sailing race that was around the World. It was called Around Alone. And you sailed on a sailboat by yourself around the world. And it started and ended in Charleston. It doesn't start and end in Charleston anymore, but it did for years. And my dad was on, like, the committee for Making it Happen, and the winner was. And they were like, they. You represented countries. So the year one year, Giovanni Soldini from Italy was going to win the race. And my dad woke us up, like, in the. In the early hours of the morning, you know, maybe at like, 4am and he was like, giovanni's coming in. And so we all get in our boat and all these boats go out, out to, like, cheer for Giovanni as his boat comes into the harbor. And it was just, like, really cool. You know, it's like, it was super late at night, and then when he gets in, you know, they pop champagne and they shake it, and it, like, goes all over his sailboat. And he's been alone. Like, there are these stops, you know, there's like four or five stops where they, you know, fix anything that's broken on their boat, replenish their food, but for the most part, they've been alone. And it was just very special that, like, my whole family was on our boat to see him into the harbor and cheer for him. And then when we get there, everyone's, you know, there's like, news cameras and cheering, and it just was, like, a fun experience. So a lot of my outside experience as a child revolve around being near the water, but that one just. It felt, like, very special, too. I think whenever you're a child and you get to do something either late at night, anytime it's dark outside. Yeah, it, like, really, I think, feels extra special. And so I just remember it being a very, very cool thing to be a part of.
- [65:01]
A
Wow, that's such a unique experience. Like no one else is ever gonna have that as be theirs. Kate, I love it. What an honor. Huge congrats on this new book. I absolutely loved it. I got a lot out of it. A lot of the simple mindset shifts of, oh, I could try this or I could try that. So I really, really appreciate it and thanks for spending your time with us. Okay.
- [65:18]
B
You're an incredible interviewer. I totally understand why your podcast is so popular. You're so good at this.
- [65:26]
A
Thank you. It was a lot of fun and I really love the book. Thank you, Kate. I so appreciate it.
- [65:30]
B
Thank you so much. I loved it.
- [65:35]
A
And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds of with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's cybersecurity awareness month and Lifelock has tips to protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, report phishing and update the software on your devices. And for comprehensive identity protection, let Lifelock alert you to suspicious uses of your personal information. Lifelock also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, safe and protected with a 30 day free trial@lifelock.com podcast terms apply.