← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
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- [00:04]
Ellie Holcomb
When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets. Mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com okay, here we go.
- [00:30]
Jenny Urch
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I am so honored to have an incredible music artist and author and mama on with us today. Ellie Holcomb, Welcome.
- [00:45]
Ellie Holcomb
It is so good to be here. And I'm looking at your book over your shoulder, and it's so cool. I can see it. It looks awesome. When I literally heard the title of this podcast, I was like, I'm gonna like this. I'm gonna like this a lot.
- [01:00]
Jenny Urch
Yes. Yeah. Well, because so many of your things are about nature. So many. Your songs are about nature, about God's creation, and you've got the devotional, and then you have these gorgeous. I mean, they are so gorgeous, these kids books that you've written. They're all about nature, and the pictures are so delightful. So I have to tell you a couple things. First of all, I have a young friend who, who is 11 years old named Ellie, and she is a huge fan. So I actually texted her mom when this got scheduled, and I was like, look, look who I'm interviewing.
- [01:33]
Ellie Holcomb
So, okay, tell Ellie. Big Ellie says she loves her.
- [01:37]
Jenny Urch
Yes, I will. Second thing is, I somehow I'm on your text list. You know how you can sign up for, like, text things and all other text lists that I'm on? Like, if it's for a product or like native deodorant, It'll be like 875 13, and it'll be like, message from native deodorant or whatever. Yours comes from an actual phone number. And so every, I don't know, few months or so, I'm like, ellie Holcomb texted me. Then I'm like, oh, no, wait, no, she didn't. Sorry. I kind of love it, though. Like, oh, Ellie. Oh, Ellie wanted to let me know she has a new children's book coming. Oh, wait, wait, no, that. That must be.
- [02:18]
Ellie Holcomb
My heart. The way that I am wired is if I could actually text everyone a message, I would absolutely do that. And I don't have time to do that, so. But I like that it Feels personal, at least.
- [02:31]
Jenny Urch
It does. It feels personal. It's so great. So these. I just want to just put a plug out for these kids books, because for people who are just loving nature, and that's the. The audience here. I've never seen such delightful illustrations. And I was sitting with my daughter last night, my older daughter, who's like a teenager, and we were looking at the. And I don't even know if you remember the exact same ones, but there's one with these elephants running through. And I was like, this is maybe one of the cutest drawings I have ever seen. And all these kids books are just delightful. So heading into the holiday season, we're going to baby showers. You want to grab these? Okay. So, Ellie, give us a little bit of your story.
- [03:08]
Ellie Holcomb
You're.
- [03:08]
Jenny Urch
You're a singer. You're a famous singer. You've sold 600,000 books and 500,000 million bazillion streams on your music, and you've got kids music. And you also. You started off singing with your husband's band.
- [03:22]
Ellie Holcomb
Is that the story Through Holcomb and the neighbors. Isn't that crazy? And the neighbors and the ones oh, so wonderful. Like, it's great family music. He literally has a song called Family that you should go play immediately after listening to this. But we have. Yeah, it's a real. So I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, born and raised here. My dad is a producer, so I grew up literally singing, like, background vocals on Music Row. Like, you know, all of that stuff. And I literally swore I'd never marry a musician or be a musician. So God has a sense of humor. I got my master's in education, became a teacher, and also swore I wouldn't marry my best guy friend, Drew Holcomb, who I'm now married to and who is a musician, and convinced me to quit my teaching job to join his band. So we. Yeah, I was in his band for, like, seven years, which is wild. And then we had our little girl. We have three kids now, and I kind of actually quit. She was in the car. I mean, we were on the road at two weeks after she was born, like, for. We were on tour with this band called need to Breathe. And, you know, I mean, you're. We were in a conversion band. It wasn't, like, bus Fancy touring. It was like, here's her van and here's her baby. I, like, warmed up her bottle and shot glasses, you know, it just. It was, like, crazy. And we, you know, she started walking, and I was like, I think I just got I cannot keep her in a car seat for six hours a day. Like, I got to get her home. So I kind of quit the band and decided to become a stay at home mom in the same breath. That past year, when I was pregnant with her, I started writing. I was trying to write for the band, and I kept accidentally writing songs about Jesus. And Drew was like, co that we're in, like, the Americana world, but you need to write what's in you, which is really cool. So I started writing what was. What was coming out of me. And I was trying to memorize scripture with a friend of mine who's battling depression, and it was actually bringing us a lot of, like, hope and grounding us in the light in the midst of a lot of shadows. And so I just started, like, singing scripture into song and ended up with 45 songs at the end of the time I was pregnant with my little girl. And so I kind of accidentally started a whole other music career that I had no plans. I did not intend on doing that. But as it turns out, I really, really, really love it. And I never intended to write kids books either, but I love it. So it's really grateful for our life. And now we get to tour together. Some apart, some. We take our kids on the road. It's awesome. We love being outside and traveling. We just did an RV thing in Maine where we borrowed our friend's RV and we went all over Maine, New Hampshire, kind of the east coast, and did Acadia National Park. So, so awesome.
- [06:19]
Jenny Urch
What a trip. Wow. And what a thing. What a thing that God provided for when you became a mom. It was like the path. The path turned. You talk about that. I read your devotional too. It's called Fighting Words. What's so cool is. Is, like, all of this background. It's like, God doesn't waste any of it. You went to school for English, right? That's what you're teaching?
- [06:37]
Ellie Holcomb
Totally, totally. Yes. That's writing a book, dude. Writing that book was honestly the. One of the harder things that I've ever done because I was also making my last record king, and. And I was also writing with a couple of artists for their records, and it was Covid. So I was also homeschooling, remember?
- [06:56]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. Yes.
- [06:58]
Ellie Holcomb
It's a lot. And so I. But my, like, little English editor, I'd already written a lot of. Because I've been just. I do. On. If you find me on Instagram, I'm singing scripture most Mondays. And so my manager was like, you've already written all this. It's like the comments on Instagram. But of course, editor English teacher me was like, actually, this can be way better and we're gonna. But I am so thankful that I said yes to that. It feels like a little stack of, like, paper Ebenezers and stories that I don't want to forget of how I've seen God's word ground me and. And bring light into some of the darkest places in my life. And I'm just. It's. It's been so much fun that it's connected with people so well, you know, but that started like, you're saying, Jenny, like, I didn't set out to write that book. I had a friend who was battling depression, like, severely, and I was listening to her talking. There's so many lies that she was believing. And of course I was. I mean, I think we all struggle with that, with believing lies. And I was like, I'm so sick. I believe in these lies. Like, the enemy's called a liar when we speak lizards native language. I was like, I'm so sick of, like, joy, peace, life being stolen. And I was like, what if we just, like, actually remembered what God said was true and he says his word is a sword? And I was like, let's use it. And so we just started memorizing scripture together as a way to kick back at the shadows with the light. I wasn't like, and I'm going to write a devo about this, right? Like, it just was trying to show up in. In the most loving present way that I could with my friend. And God's word didn't take away her depression, but it helped ground us when the shame storms were rolling in. And I was like, man, this is, like, real. Oh, cool.
- [08:50]
Jenny Urch
It's such a message of hope. Ellie. The devotional is called fighting words. 100 days of speaking truth into the darkness. And you have a new album out. It's called Far country and it is. I would. Well, I don't. Like, do people. Do you want to hear what people's favorite song songs are? I don't know, because then you're like, I love them all, but the. How I feel about you. Oh, it's got this beautiful piano, and my favorite flower is zinnia. And I have never heard another song with zinnia in it ever.
- [09:18]
Ellie Holcomb
Yes. I was like, I just knew you were going to be a kindred spirit because I love outside so much. I'm just like, thank you, God, for nature. But yeah, no, I love that. That's probably one of my favorite songs on the record. It's not going to be probably like a radio sing, right? But I. So often I feel like my understanding of who God is happens when I'm outside. I just. And I love that he knew that we might forget. And also, like, lots of people in the world can't read the Bible or don't have it yet. And so I just love that. Like, I feel like the story of resurrection, the story of new life, like the. The idea of seasons and letting go and how trees work together. There's just so many things that I feel like he's like, oh, it's okay if you forget. I'm actually going to write it all over the place for you, like, remind you. And, yeah, these are new. The sun's going to come up every morning. Like, new mercies every morning. Love never ends. This is.
- [10:25]
Jenny Urch
I mean, that's what the kids book. One of the kids books is called don't forget to Remember. That's what it starts off by saying, did you know Creation talking to you wherever you go. And whatever you do, the earth will keep giving you clue after clue so you won't forget to remember what's true. Oh, it's so good. I mean, the nature references are everywhere, so in how I feel about you. Just came out that last month, there's a. There's a line about a river in the snow. I was like, oh, my goodness. I have actually kayaked down this river that's up by us, and they do this kayaking. It's all year round, so. So you could go kayak it in the snow.
- [11:03]
Ellie Holcomb
I want to do that. What river is it?
- [11:06]
Jenny Urch
It's called the Fawn River. Come do it with Ellie. Little Ellie.
- [11:11]
Ellie Holcomb
We'll do it with you. I got to visit my sister moved to Portland for a season.
- [11:21]
Jenny Urch
Is that right? Yeah.
- [11:22]
Ellie Holcomb
Portland. That's all the way up in Oregon. Yeah. So we. I met her when she was, like, driving out and we were in Yellowstone national park for the first time in Teton in shoulder season. So it was hilarious. We were, like, playing. We packed, like, camping gear, and I'm like, oh, we're clearly Tennessee girls. Because, like, I was like, it's weird. It's saying the campsite's closed. I don't know why. Like, it's spring, clearly. And. And we got there and I was like, oh, it's like under four feet of snow. Like, people don't, like, tend to camp in that scenario. And so I. We were laughing so hard. But there is. There were so Many beautiful rivers, like in sun hits them and it's sparkling and just cutting through the snow. So that is. That's that reference. And I had no idea you could kayak. And now that's all used to do.
- [12:16]
Jenny Urch
Yes. I mean, it's a. It. They're so beautiful just meandering like that. Well, what's so interesting is because you write so much about the spring. I love how much you write about the spring. You're like, spring is your favorite season. You got a book, it's called Spring Sings. Have you ever. Have you heard the spectacular song that the earth sings each year when spring comes along? Spring sings the song death isn't the end. God loves to make everything new once again. But here's the thing, Ellie. Spring in other places is not necessarily as nice as spring in Tennessee.
- [12:47]
Ellie Holcomb
What I learned, I was like, oh, well, it's hilarious. My husband and I do a tour every year in like February, March, April, so like in from winter to spring. And this book released last year, and it was so funny because I would go up north, we'd be playing in New York, York or in Michigan, and I would be like, spring guys. Right? And I'm like, oh, actually you guys really want the spring to get here. And it's probably not that long here. So I actually learned a lot about. I was like, oh, this is different timings and. And feels different for different scenarios.
- [13:23]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, it is. Like in Michigan in February, you're like buried under the snow for like three more months, you know, it's so great.
- [13:30]
Ellie Holcomb
Nowhere near this. We are nowhere near it.
- [13:32]
Jenny Urch
Yeah. I just love it. I mean it. But it is so true. Like that beauty of spring and when the new things come and it's just such a reminder. You and oh Love. You talk about it too. You talk about it a lot. Winter to spring. So that's one of the songs that's on the new album called oh Love. And I mean, they're just gorgeous songs. So much about getting outside in Made for Love. You were talking about biking and being out in like the never ending summers and oh, I love.
- [13:56]
Ellie Holcomb
Yes, we. I used. I miss the days where we would chase the fireflies out in the dark after the sun went down. It's like we knew deep in our bones that we were made to find the beauty in the dark somehow. I love that line so much. Yes. Here's the deal. Like, as I. So this record I wrote, I've always grown up, like, knowing Jesus. I can't remember a day where I didn't like Feel filled with wonder about how beautiful God was. Like, I just. Like, that feels like the oldest, beautiful, most beautiful story. I know I'm saying it like, I've carried honey in my heart for a really long time, and my personality is sort of like, if something's great, I, like, really want other people to know about it. Like, literally, sometimes people come to my house and I'll be like, you have to lay down in my bed. I love my mattress. You have to come try it.
- [14:49]
Jenny Urch
And they're like, what. What kind of mattress is it?
- [14:53]
Ellie Holcomb
It's a Tempur Pedic hybrid. So it's like, has some support, but it's also soft. Wait for the sale. Because they're like, an investment. But I'm like, you sleep in your mattress every use it. You're there more than anywhere in your bed. So little plug for Tempur Pedic Hybrid. But like. But then transfer that to, like, this beautiful story of God coming to rescue his lost treasure. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Have you tasted and see, seen that the Lord is good because he's so good. He loves you so much. So for most of my life, I've been going to the living waters, to the well, wanting to pass out, like, oh, taste this. Like, it's so good. You have to try it. But I think as a. I hit 40 and walking through lots of sorrow and suffering in. In many different iterations in my life. But for some reason, I went right around 40, maybe midlife crisis, I don't know. I just all of a sudden looked up and I was, like, so dry, like, oh, thirsty. And I saw a picture during that time. I love this because so connected to, like, your audience. But do you know what a salt flat is? Like, this popped up on my algorithm, and I did not know that word or that.
- [16:09]
Jenny Urch
Is it, like, in Utah? Do they have them in Utah?
- [16:11]
Ellie Holcomb
That's where I took my record cover is at the Bonneville Flats in Utah. The one I saw was in Bolivia. It's the Unani Salt Flats. But I literally thought I was like, oh, that picture is AI. Like, I'm like, that cannot be real. But if it is, I want to go there, you know? So I'm like. My Instagram algorithm is literally like, this is your sign that you're supposed to go here. And I'm like, I didn't even know about that place. And absolutely, it is my sign. I'm going to go research it. ADHD 7 on the Enneagram Energy over here. So I go and look up A salt flat. Because what I saw. So salt flats, basically. It used to be like a lake back in the day, mineral rich waters. And eventually that evaporates and the lake dries up and leaving all the salt behind. So know it's this dried up lake and that is how my heart felt in that season. I think I'd spent so much time pouring water, sharing the good news with so many people and very, very rarely ever just like taking a really long drink for myself or lingering by the river with God, like. And so I just like looked around and I was like, I'm so thirsty and I am starving, like spiritually, and I am going to find the water again. And in this time I had this dream of me sitting on the edge of a dam, watching the water go down. And I'm like that if you've ever had a panic attack, that like anvil, elephant weight on your chest. And I'm like, what are we gonna do? Oh my gosh. And in the dream, like, Jesus comes and sits beside me, puts his arm around me. He's like, this isn't it. Like, do you not know? There's so much more. Like upstream. We're going upstream and then, you know, dream scene change. And it's like Aslan and Susan and Lucy and I'm like on flying over all this water like a river in the snow, like. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so that. So I. Far country is a record of like, searching for something that I felt like maybe had been lost. And it's a record of songs about what I found. And so I wrestled with God a lot in this time, walked through a lot of sorrow. Um, and some people are like, oh, you're deconstructing? And I'm like, well, no, like, actually, I could never undo. For me, I think deconstructing is important for some people. And I've had a lot of friends walk through that. And I think some people roll their eyes at it, like, the younger. I don't know, but I think what. Sometimes when people are deconstructing, they're just actually looking for what's real.
- [18:51]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, I completely agree with you. I don't like the word deconstructing. I. Because it's like a tear down. And I don't think anyone is necessarily trying to tear down. I think they're trying to understand you're.
- [19:02]
Ellie Holcomb
Trying to find what, what's real. And I'm like, what? And if God's real, which I believe he is, I'm like, if they're searching. I really feel like they're gonna find him, you know? And so I. But. But in the same sense, like, I'm. Like, I could never tear down or forget or, like. Like, there couldn't be anything that would undo the goodness of God that I have known in my life. And, like, peace that I've had in scenarios that makes no sense. And, like, the empathy of God and the presence of God in, like, deep places of sorrow. Like, I. I can't unsee or unknow that in my life. So I don't know that that could ever come all the way down. But the way that I describe it is, as I learn more and more about who God is and who Jesus is, I'm like, but, like, the back of the building's off. Like, maybe we're adding on, you know? And, like, maybe the roof's off. I mean, it's that. That bridge and how I feel about you. Like, I literally saw an abandoned church one time, and the roof was off, and there were, like, flowers and vines growing all over it. And I was like, that's how I feel about God. I literally thought, that's how I feel about God when I saw the picture of this salt flat. What happens once a year in wet season and a salt flat is it floods with water, but it's just about 2 inches deep.
- [20:20]
Jenny Urch
Deep.
- [20:21]
Ellie Holcomb
So this dry, crusty desert ground literally turns into. If you can imagine a desert turning into a mirror and reflecting the entire expanse of the sky to where it looks like heavens beneath your feet. That's what happens in a salt flat. And that when I saw that picture, I was like, that's how I feel about. Because my dry little heart and spirit, as I went searching for water, like, it was. It was like, oh, he's bigger. This is bigger than I have ever even understood before. And I'm so grateful. That's what the record's about, which is so fun. And when you wrestle with God, I feel more comfortable asking questions. Like, I think he can handle our questions, you know? And, like, that's the Psalms, right? David's like, where are you? What is this? And then he's like, remember. Remember, awake my soul. And so. And there's lament. And so I did a lot of lamenting and was in the wilderness a lot. But I love the story of Jesus. I mean, it's like this huge moment. He's this huge platform. John the Baptist baptizes him in the Jordan River. The dove comes down, a voice from heaven. This is my son with whom I'M well pleased. You're like, let's go. Ministry on earth begins. And he goes to the wilderness. And I'm just like, I wonder why. I'm like, I just feel like that he might have known that as humans, things would feel hard down here sometimes. And so I love that we have like, that God was like, yeah, I'll go there with you in the wilderness. I'm there.
- [21:55]
Jenny Urch
Well, there's a creation, the healing power of creation, and that nature is such a reflection for truth.
- [22:00]
Ellie Holcomb
It is no matter where you are.
- [22:02]
Jenny Urch
Maybe you're at the salt flats, maybe you're at the river in the snow. Maybe you're in a muddy spring in Michigan, you know. And all of these things reflect God's truth, which is why it's so important for kids to be outside. And why your kids books, they are just, they're all outside and there's animals everywhere. I mean, these kids books, I. I don't think I've ever seen illustrations that are quite so. They're dazzling. Oh, there's all these little, little things in them. So, you know, I think it's fun when you can look at illustrations and see, like, this one has a badger and this page has a hedgehog. And then here's a butterfly that's coming know that's emerging. There's so much in these books, and it reflects an abundant God. You know what I love about this time of year? The air gets crisp, the days feel cozier, and suddenly I realize, oh, right, the entire family is coming over. Hosting is such a joy, but it can also feel like a marathon if your home isn't quite ready. This year, I got ahead of it all with Wayfair, and honestly, I don't know why I waited so long. I found the cutest light fixture, some wreaths, and a new comforter set for our guest room for when our son's friend came and stayed with us for a week. And that made it feel like a little, little bed and breakfast. Everything came fast, shipping was free, and it all looked even better in person. Wayfair really has everything you need to make your home holiday ready. Like Christmas trees, cookware, throw blankets, twinkle lights. Even those little touches that make your guests say, wow. Whether you're hosting family dinners, cozy movie nights, or welcoming guests from out of town, Wayfair makes it easy to make your space shine without blowing the budget. So don't wait until the week before Christmas. Start now. Enjoy the process and make your home a place you can truly settle into this season. Get organized, refreshed and ready for the holidays. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every home. You guys, the holidays are almost here and you know what that means. People to feed, guests to host and a whole lot of cozy moments ahead. I've been getting our home ready with Wayfair and it's amazing how just a few updates make everything feel warm and welcoming again. I grabbed a beautiful new dining bench so everyone has a seat at the table, swapped in flannel sheets for the guest room and found the cutest Christmas wreath. All from Wayfair's Black Friday sale. Everything shipped fast, the prices were unreal and it made me actually excited to host this year. Wayfair really is the place to shop for all things home. From sofas to spatulas, rugs to refrigerators. And during their Black Friday event you can save up to 70% off. Plus they have styles you won't see anywhere else house so your space actually feels like you. And if you haven't heard, Wayfair now has a loyalty program where you earn 5% back, get free shipping and have access to member only sales. It's totally worth joining, so don't wait. These early deals are already happening. Head to Wayfair.com now to shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals for up to 70 off. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com sale ends December 7th. Ginny here with 1,000 hours outside. If you're like me, you know that the best gifts aren't the ones that end up on a shelf. They're the ones that get muddy, sun soaked and full of memories. That's why I am so excited to tell you about our friends at Womb Bikes, a family focused company that truly gets what childhood should feel like. Womb makes the lightest, smartest, safest bikes on the market. Designed specifically for kids from their very first balance bike all the way to those confident neighborhood cruisers. Every detail is built for little riders from easy reach reach brakes to perfectly balanced frames. So kids don't just learn to ride, they learn to love the ride. And this holiday season you can give a gift that leads to a thousand hours of joy, confidence and connection. Outside. Head to womb.com and use the code outside 10 for 10 off new bikes and accessories. But hurry, it is only good until November 15th. That's womb. W-O-O-M.com and use code outside. 10 for 10 off by November 15th this year, don't just give a bike, give them a reason to ride and a lifetime of adventure. So that new album is Far country. And there's a song called Far country and I love that. Well, it's like how precious is.
- [26:05]
Ellie Holcomb
Yeah, how spacious is the love of God.
- [26:08]
Jenny Urch
And that.
- [26:09]
Ellie Holcomb
I mean, I'm just like, oh. And he goes to find who's lost. Like it's. That whole thing is, where are the lost kids? Because we're all, here's the deal. I heard this story of a kid, like a mom who had a three year old and like a brand new or a two year old boy and then a brand new baby boy. So two brothers. She goes, puts the baby down for a nap, comes back down, is cleaning up after lunch. She looks around, she can't find a two year old mom. Heart panics. You immediately think the street. So you know, she's just like, oh my gosh, calling, you know her little boy's name. Where is he? And so before she runs out the front door to make sure he's not out there, she looks at the baby monitor and the two year old's leaning over the baby's crib. Oh my gosh. Okay, great. Now, okay, I'm running upstairs, I'm gonna go get the 2 year old. She's coming in the door, about to be like, don't wake up the baby. And she hears her 2 year old talking to his baby brother. And what she hears him say is, quick, tell me what heaven's like, I'm starting to forget. And I think for me, like, when I heard that story, I was like, okay, so if it's true that we're all made in the image of God, like, which I believe it is. You grow a baby in your belly and you're like, oh, there's this is. I'm not telling the fingernails to happen right now. Like, I think I'm just like, this is crazy. The intricacy with which we are designed. I'm like, if I didn't believe in God before I was pregnant, I think it would have been like a pretty big spiritual awakening. Because I'm like, this is wild and gorgeous and a bit uncomfortable also. But I, if it's true that we're all made in the image of God, then it's true that we all came from where every good thing comes from. And I think sometimes like the, like, maybe it feels so off down here on this planet, like so broken because it's so far off. Off from where? The place that we all came from, where we all know that we're, like, beloved and we have a place where we belong. And so in that sense, we're all kids, like, finding our way back home. And this is the structure of all music, by the way. Even, like, you know, just. It's home, away home. When you're playing a key, you start in the key and then you move away from it, and then you go back to the key. You can hear it. And Mary had a little less. Like Mary had a little lamb Little lamb, little lamb Mary had a little lamb Whose fleece was white as. And you're like, oh, you can't end it there. You're like, go back your body.
- [28:48]
Jenny Urch
We just sing together.
- [28:50]
Ellie Holcomb
We just sing together, start a band. But it's. There is something, even in music of this home, away home. We're in the away part. And our hearts long to go back home.
- [29:03]
Jenny Urch
Yeah.
- [29:03]
Ellie Holcomb
To where we came from. And so, yeah, it feels really fun to, like, find images of the story and like. I don't know. I just feel like God tells this story in creation all the time as well, so.
- [29:21]
Jenny Urch
Oh, I love that one. Is there an old hymn? How Precious is the love of God? No, I don't know. I. I don't know. It reminded me of that. That chorus of that. How Spacious is the love of God reminded me of just like an old him. It's so beautiful.
- [29:36]
Ellie Holcomb
There is an old hymn that's a lot like it because we almost put it at the end and I'm blanking on it right now. Oh, it's. It feels similar ish to Amazing Grace. I want this loss, but now I'm found. So we actually almost, like, sang that at the end of it, and it was just getting too long for the. For the record, for the song length to put on the vinyl.
- [29:57]
Jenny Urch
It's so beautiful. I love it. How Spacious is the love of God. Then you have this line in here. You talk actually a lot about the night light and that the light overcomes darkness. But you also talk about how beautiful is to be out at night. You talk about the Northern Cross constellation. And you have a line in Far country where you say, I guess some people have to go dark just to see.
- [30:18]
Ellie Holcomb
Yeah. Oh, man. This is like. I think what I used to think following Jesus was, was a lot of certainty, you know, you just had to know. And as I get older, I think I have more questions and. And yet, like, in the midst of those questions, love can fill up that Space, too. And so it's been very untethering, in a sense, to, like, be like, oh, no. I don't know all the right answers. So I think I used to have. Have certainty and then, like, doing love. Like, I love God, and I know that he loves me, and I want to love him. And there's. That's beautiful. It's so beautiful. And. And yet, like, as I walk with Jesus longer, I'm like, I think a lot of what he is asking of me is just to be with him.
- [31:21]
Jenny Urch
Yeah.
- [31:22]
Ellie Holcomb
Some people are like, what is this, like, adventure that you took with God with this? Wrestling these questions? Like, what did that. What's your one takeaway from that? And I'm like, oh, all right. Distill that down. And I'm like, oh, actually, I think I can just say that. I'm like, God loves to be with me. Like, he loves me, and he loves every single one of you listening, like, you're his kid. And so I think there is this. As I spend more and more time and there's more in the. Like, a. In the Jesuit world. So this would be like Catholic priest training. You spend two years, when you're training to be a priest, only meditating on the love of God. Like, we were loved. And. And then you go into all the other stuff. Like, I think most of us know that we're broken or. Or spend. For me, I was spending most of my time trying to avoid the broken stuff because I'm a seven on Enneagram.
- [32:26]
Jenny Urch
And I hate playing.
- [32:27]
Ellie Holcomb
And so there's this, like, old. It's a quote by, like, someone like Plato or somebody like that. But it's like, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek. And so for me, I had to, like, really not be scared to, like, walk into some of the sort. Like, be present in some of the sorrow in my story and the stories of people that I was walking around with and. And what happened for me as I was willing to enter into that darkness and really grieve and wrestle with God in that? Like, I definitely think I'm gonna die with questions. I'm just like, this. Like, I know you're good, and I've seen goodness come from that. This is not how I would have written the story.
- [33:16]
Jenny Urch
Right.
- [33:16]
Ellie Holcomb
Like, we know what it is to break here, and. But I think as I was willing to, like, I don't know, like, wrestle with some of those questions. God. When you wrestle with God, when you're wrestling with love himself, you actually kind of are pretty Close. That's actually a pretty intimate thing to do. And so I felt like I could hear the heartbeat of God's love in a way that I couldn't when I was willing to enter into the. The honestly enter into where I was, which was so sad and so much grief and some anger about how things turned out and dry and thirsty. And I'm like, is this even real? Are you even here? Do you even see me? And it was in that darkness and in that wrestling and out in the wilderness. I mean, it's like the prodigal son. I mean it's. That's literally in scripture. Like the prodigal Sangha is looking for what's going to give him life.
- [34:10]
Jenny Urch
Life.
- [34:12]
Ellie Holcomb
And it's in the far country that he comes to his senses. And so I just. And goes back home. And so I think sometimes, you know, I know there's sort of like a revival happening right now, which is like amazing, but I think a lot of people of young people are also leaving the church and I think some people are worried about that. And I know God loves the church and everything, so I'm not even meaning this as shade on the church, but I do think that young people are just actually looking for what's real. Real. I hope they are. And, and again, if they are, I'm like, love's gonna find them. God goes, he leaves the 99 to go find the 1. Like, I don't think love's gonna fail at his mission of bringing all the kids home. And so what a joy to get to be a part of that. And I think for some people, and everyone's different. I mean, you know, I grew up in the church, but I discovered new depths of God's love. And this is a backwards upside down mystery to me. In some of the most sorrowful places of my life and some of the most doubtful places of my life where I was lamenting, very, very seriously lamenting, and I encountered the empathy and the love of God there. A man of sorrows, well acquainted with grief. And. And I'll probably be singing about that for all of my days.
- [35:28]
Jenny Urch
Yeah, he's so much. It's really interesting when you pick up your kids books and you listen to your different songs and you're like, these themes are everywhere. They're everywhere. So there's our country, it's there. There's the theme. I guess some people have to go dark just to see. But then in your song, the one that I've heard the most on the radio is constellations. So you Know about being out under the canopy of stars. And then you have a song called Night Song. Will you sing your night song? Will you be my night song? And it comes from a verse that says, by day, the Lord directs his love. At night, his song is with me.
- [36:00]
Ellie Holcomb
With me. And I'm like, oh, if he's singing a song, what. How's the chorus go?
- [36:07]
Jenny Urch
I mean, it's like your children's book, right? Your children's book. We're like, what is the song of the earth? I mean, that. What does joy sound like? That's like a Christmas one. So that's coming up. What a beautiful. What a beautiful book. But, yeah, the nature is singing.
- [36:22]
Ellie Holcomb
Well, I started thinking about how we sing that. That hymn, joy to the World. And then we're like, and heaven and nature sing in heaven. And I'm. If heaven and nature are singing, what's the song like?
- [36:34]
Jenny Urch
I'm an.
- [36:35]
Ellie Holcomb
I'm a songwriter. I'm like, and what does it look like for us to sing with our voices, but also with our lives? There's this amazing Tim Keller sermon where he talks about. A lot of people say, you know, in Scripture, Genesis 1 and Genesis to contradict each other, which you're like, oh, yeah, they kind of do. And he's like. But he's like, Genesis 1 and Genesis. Genesis 2 is an account, and Genesis 1 is actually written in the. In the form of an archaic Hebrew poem. And I'm like. And he's like, so here's. So we talk about how God made the world, whatever. But, like, let's talk about why. And if the first chapter of the Bible is written, and the first. Like, the first thing we read in God's Word is in song, like, why would I do that? And. And if that's true, the creation story is, like, written out in a song. It's almost as if it's saying that God sang the earth into being. Why would he do that? Because he made the earth and every single one of us to sing of his goodness and of his love. And can we do that perfectly? No, but like, here, the first chat word, the first verse in chapter one of John in the New Testament is the living Word of Jesus. The Word was God. And the Word was with God. He was with God in the beginning. And through the Word, the living Word of God, Jesus, everything. Everything was made. And so it's through the living Word of God that. Because the song that God sang over us from the very beginning, by the way, was. You're good. Yeah, you're Good. But we're like, wait, but we're not good. It's not okay down here. But it's through Jesus, the living word, that we can be restored to sing the song that we were made, that we're good and God's goodness is in us and it's in all the world. And so I literally. Sally Lloyd Jones, do you know her at all? She's a storybook Bible. And.
- [38:30]
Jenny Urch
Oh, and there's something coming out. Something's actually coming out. I actually just kind of got contacted by them.
- [38:36]
Ellie Holcomb
You should definitely talk to her. She's freaking amazing. She happens to be a friend of mine. We've gotten a partner together on a, on a project before and have toured together. And she writes it this way in her children's Bible. Every story whispers his name is so beautiful. It takes every old and New Testament story and like weaves it into Jesus. It's so gorgeous. But she talks about how God's saying the earth into being. And so I was like, is this theologically grounded? Is this just a beautiful metaphor that God gave you? And she pointed me to that Tim Keller sermon and my daughter, the whole. The way. The reason I started writing kids books is basically my daughter, when she was 4, walked through the kitchen and she was like, mom song. Who sang the first song? And I was like, you know how kids ask questions? And you're like, that's a. That is a stellar question. And I don't know exactly how to answer it, like, so you just turn it back around on them, you know, you're like, great question. Who do you think sang the first song? And she shrugged her little four year old shoulders and she was like, dolly Parton, probably. And I was like, we love Dolly Parton. That is a great guess. And mommy's going to be right back and forth, some theological research. I'm gonna write your children's book, sweet girl. So that the first book is literally who sang the first song. And so I think my hope for the kids books that I write and then the music that goes along with them is that they'll help every kid and the adults in their lives know who they are and whose they are and what they were made for. Because they were made to sing and bring beauty and goodness into the world. World. Every single one of us.
- [40:13]
Jenny Urch
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- [42:32]
Ellie Holcomb
No like Junior Holy Spirit. I just love the idea of giving kids a vision that they have something beautiful to bring. I think I got a lot growing up in the church. Like you're bad. You're really bad and you really need Jesus. And I'm like, that's true. Like we all are broken and we need Jesus. But that feels more Like a. Well, I don't know if they feel like we have. I have that down. I guess it took me a while to learn it, but I'm like, yeah, I think we got it. But what is also true is that we're made in the image of God and his fingerprints are all over us. And we're all made individually with unique giftings and strengths and with unique weaknesses because we're made to live in community with one another. And so there was this original blessing that sometimes, as I, when I grew up, got a little bit overlooked. And so I love the idea of holding both. We all need Jesus. Yes. And we are all made in God's image and have such goodness to bring into the world. And what a gift that we get from both.
- [43:38]
Jenny Urch
That's right. I love that you write this. This is in your devotional. It's a really interesting devotional because it's written by a music artist. So you're like, like. And you. You'll be like, I read this verse. This meant this to me. And then I wrote this song. And this is why. So that's a really, really cool part of the book. It's really unique. But you talk about that. It's easy to admire a sunset or beautiful flowers or the magnificent way a bird flies through the blue sky with ease and grace. It's easy for me to know that the ocean and the stars and the sun and the mountains are good. But when it comes to looking at myself, this is harder to believe. Yeah. Some days it's hard to remember that God sees me this way. So there's just so much beautiful references to nature and everything in the pictures in this remind me of heaven. Like when the lion lies down with the lamb. Because, like, this is a little boy in a bow. And it says, did the waves make a song as they crashed to the shore? Or was it the whales? And he's touching the whale. And then the next page, she, the little girl is again, teeter tottering with a lion, and they're both singing, and she dropped her jump rope and her chalks on the floor. And you're like, I don't know how you could have encapsulated so well the splendor of God. And it's all through everything else.
- [44:51]
Ellie Holcomb
So I need to say this because I just. You're making. Like, this is so encouraging to me, because when I signed these book deals and looked at the artists that they had, I was like, these are fine. I was like.
- [45:02]
Jenny Urch
But I.
- [45:03]
Ellie Holcomb
Like, I had a very clear vision, and I was like, we need someone who can do whimsy. We need someone who can do every kind of kid, because every kid needs to see a mirror of themselves in this book. We need someone who can also do animals. We need someone who can do light. And so the way that you're admiring these, Kayla Heron did the first two books, and then Lara Ramos and I found them both on Instagram, literally.
- [45:26]
Jenny Urch
So it's just so fun you found them. They are phenomenal. It has been phenomenal illustrations. They're. They're powerful.
- [45:35]
Ellie Holcomb
It's. Thank you for saying that. And it has been such a. It's just I did not know what an honor it would feel like to be a part like that space before you're putting kids to bed at night is like. It just makes me want to cry. I'm like, it's. My husband always makes fun of me because they're like, can we read one more book, Mom? And I'm like, yes. It's like they have to go to sleep. But I'm like, this isn't going to last forever. And it's so tender. And so I just didn't really think about that some. In some ways, I would get to be a little part of that for parents and kids and that it would be giving my hope is that it would be conversation starters of these beautiful, huge concepts, but that, that there would always be something that any kid anywhere, whether you live. Whether you have a lot of money, live in a nice home, or whether you're in, you know, like a tent or a mud hut in the middle of, you know, a field that you could walk outside and see God's story unfolding before your eyes. And it's just been such a delight to do it. And then I get to find. Send them. I. Then I go, I'm like, oh, I really want a scene in a tree house. And the kids are in the treehouse. And there has to be a swing and there also has to be a tea party and also one of the string cup, phone like tin can.
- [47:04]
Jenny Urch
And they can do it because they can do anything. Books are very powerful and they're very precious. I love them. You have a song, and one of my favorites of yours is called Little Seed. It's super catchy. And you talk about even when we can't see. Miracles are growing. So what a message. So the new album is called Far Country. It is phenomenal. My favorite song is how I feel about you. But Far Country, I mean, saying how spacious is the love of God. I'm so Glad I brought it up because I was like, I recognize that melody. And I'm thinking the word precious, but it is from Amazing Grace. It's the part where they say, how precious did that grace appear? And it's a similar.
- [47:37]
Ellie Holcomb
The hour of first belief.
- [47:38]
Jenny Urch
Yes. Okay. I'm so glad I brought up because I was like, I kind of recognize this. But she's saying spacious and I'm like, I love it.
- [47:44]
Ellie Holcomb
Was lost, but now I'm found. That's the melody that we made sure we changed it enough. Because you get into copyright. Yeah.
- [47:55]
Jenny Urch
Well, no.
- [47:55]
Ellie Holcomb
And it is.
- [47:56]
Jenny Urch
It's just enough. It like reminds you of it and you're like, this feels familiar to me.
- [48:00]
Ellie Holcomb
Familiar. That's so fun, man. Our worked perfectly. But I was like, literally, if there's any song that's going to be closely tied to at all how beautiful that a song about how we're all lost kids making our way back home, that it would be tied to Amazing Grace.
- [48:14]
Jenny Urch
Like.
- [48:15]
Ellie Holcomb
Yes.
- [48:16]
Jenny Urch
I want to wrap it up with this one verse that's in that the. That's in the devotional. So the devotional is called fighting words. 100 days of speaking truth into the darkness. As we start to put out episodes that are heading into the holidays, because October's holidays, I always mention these are great things to take as hostess gifts. You know, if you're going or you know, you're buying gifts for your nephew or your niece. I mean, these books are. They really are life changing. They're so precious. And a kid would sit for hours and hours and look at these pictures because they're so stunning and they're so many, many little details. I love them. Like, I got chills.
- [48:47]
Ellie Holcomb
I mean, them. They'll be able to read them even if they can't read because there's a song. So it's really videos all the time of parents sending me. Their kids like reading the book to themselves and they're. They absolutely can't read yet, but they're like. They just sing it and they know the page with this.
- [49:04]
Jenny Urch
Oh, I love it.
- [49:05]
Ellie Holcomb
It's so. It's so sweet. I hope to have some more kids shows. I did one in Nashville before our Ryman show that my husband, I did and there were 800 people there.
- [49:17]
Jenny Urch
Oh, gosh. Elliot just shows though that people are looking for that.
- [49:21]
Ellie Holcomb
Call them Vik. Very important kids. And so I'll do like a little kids show before our show because we have, we have people, we have families bring their kids to our shows all the time. I absolutely Love it. And it's been a joy. It's just been such fun to be like, here's music for your kids. Here's music for a whole family. Family, let's go. Let's spend the night together.
- [49:42]
Jenny Urch
What a gift. Oh, I love that. And you got. You're going on tour. You and Drew are going on tour in 2026. So people can look out for getting tickets. But in the devotional, you have this book. I just think that this relates. We'll kind of bring it back to the beginning. It says, trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight.
- [49:59]
Ellie Holcomb
In.
- [50:00]
Jenny Urch
In the amplified classic version, it says that he will cause your thoughts to become agreeable to his will, and so shall your plans be established, succeed. And you talk about how God is a way maker. He makes the path straight. I thought, gosh, that was so powerful. Ellie, you write time and time again, I've walked right out of a situation I thought I was trapped in that I thought I had no logical way out and that God is this way maker. And here you are, you're traveling with your husband, what's called Drew and the neighbors.
- [50:35]
Ellie Holcomb
I was a neighbor with benefits. Benefits for like seven when I was in the band singer live insurance.
- [50:42]
Jenny Urch
Drew Holman, the neighbors. And then here's your path unfolded. God made a way. You, you know, you got pregnant, you got this baby. They're out on the road. You're like, this isn't really working. And what a path he led you on. What a path. So we all have those same promises. The devotional is about promises. That God's promises there. Yes. And amen. And you pick that up, and the promises are for you and these beautiful kids books. What an honor to get a chance to talk with you. I'm gonna let you know about the co Kayaking in the snow. If you want to come up eight hours north or if you happen to be here, we can go down the.
- [51:12]
Ellie Holcomb
Fawn river, because maybe I'll get there and we'll be like, hey, yeah, I just. That'll be really fun.
- [51:19]
Jenny Urch
It'd be great. It'd be so amazing. We always end our show with the same question. Ellie, what's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [51:26]
Ellie Holcomb
Oh, my gosh, I love this question. Okay, how do I pick one? I guess. Okay, so the first thing that comes to mind is I lived on the Little Harpeth River. It. I literally say that the Little Harpeth River Runs through my veins. And I. This was the days when we would leave at 8:00am you know, in the summer and not come back until dinner. If we got hungry at lunch, we'd go, go inside, but we were literally outside. And so I think for me, some of my favorite memories were these like vines that grew in the tree turned into the most epic rope swing of all time. But it was a vine. It did break one time. And a kid broke his arm. That's not my favorite memory. I wasn't even there for that. But I think there was a sense where every single kid in the neighborhood, every single kid, there are hundreds of kids. Kids outside made a space to where everyone was welcome. And I. Those days feel like heaven on earth to me. And you hear it in river. I'm like the little herth river running through the Cottonwood. Lived in the neighborhood called Cottonwood. And so I think it was there. And then I remember being in my friend's sandbox under these pine trees. And we. Our neighbors neighborhood was called Cottonwood. And one of my most exciting memories as a kid, which is funny now that I'm older and understand more, but we thought we found in the sandbox, it looked like these railroad ties. And we were like, we found the entrance to the underground railroad. Found it. It's right here. And slaves were escaping. And we are a part of the freedom movement. And so I just, I felt like free and like everybody had. Everybody felt like they belonged. And so it felt like a little, little slice of heaven to me.
- [53:27]
Jenny Urch
Is that what heaven will feel like, baby?
- [53:29]
Ellie Holcomb
I love it. So much.
- [53:30]
Jenny Urch
Freedom and belonging. And I. What is so amazing is that your kids, your kids books capture. They capture that. They capture the freedom and they capture the belonging because there's so many kids and they're just out with the animals and. And there's no adults.
- [53:46]
Ellie Holcomb
No. It's like I'm a kid at heart. So I'm like, oh, they're my favorite emails that I send, by the way, giving art direction. I'm like, okay, so the, the lion looks a little hungry in this one. Can we make him look less hungry? Or like, you know, the polar bear's backside's a little bit fluffy. Can we narrow them up a bit? You know, I could hedge dog be actually handing a flower to the little girl? Is that possible?
- [54:14]
Jenny Urch
Oh, I love it. This is probably one of the coolest drawings I've ever seen in any book ever. The elephants one isn't amazing.
- [54:20]
Ellie Holcomb
It's so interesting. So almost always what happens with that Page. It's a reflection of a brother and a sister. That's actually a picture. So I always make a art inspo page to give to the artist for, like, this is sort of what I'm envisioning. And I found this picture of these. A brother and her sister running through water next to elephants in Africa. And the reflection. But when kids get to that page, it's a. They flip the book over because they think it's upside down. They're like, wait. They flip it over, and then they flip the next page and they're like, wait. So it's just. It's been. And that to me, the gospel is a backwards upside down story. So it's just this, like. And right now we see dimly.
- [55:00]
Jenny Urch
I mean, there's.
- [55:00]
Ellie Holcomb
There's a song about this on my new record. But like the reflection. Right now we see dimly as if in a mirror. But one day we shall see it in full. Right now we know in part, but one day we shall know it fully as we are fully known. And so I feel like right now we're living in the dim reflection, like. And so when you look at that reflection of the water, it's kind of hazy. It's hard to see sometimes. But one day we're going to see like. Like 3D in color. And so it just. It's been a really. I see a lot of those stories and those truths in nature. We go outside, and you look at a river, you see the trees reflecting in a river, and you're like, oh, yeah, we're in the reflection part right now. And there's a lot of beautiful things reflected. But one day, all. All will be made well, which is a gift.
- [55:46]
Jenny Urch
I love it. Ellie, what an honor. Thank you so much for being here.
- [55:49]
Ellie Holcomb
Thanks for taking.
- [55:49]
Jenny Urch
I'll see you next week at the.
- [55:51]
Ellie Holcomb
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- [56:21]
Jenny Urch
It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu. Is that guy with the binoculars watching us?
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Ellie Holcomb
Cut the camera. They see us.
- [56:28]
Jenny Urch
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Ellie Holcomb
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Jenny Urch
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