← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 659: We Were Always Meant to Start From Rest | Eryn Lynum, The Nature of Rest
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- [00:02]
A
When the holidays start to feel a bit repetitive, reach for a Sprite Winter Spiced Cranberry and put your twist on tradition. A bold cranberry and winter spice flavor fusion Sprite Winter Spice Cranberry is a refreshing way to shake things up this.
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B
Sipping season, and only for a limited time. Sprite.
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A
Obey your thirst. All right. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ertge. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and one of your favorite guests is back. Erin Lyneum, Welcome.
- [00:32]
B
Thank you. Thanks for having me back.
- [00:34]
A
So we talked. We actually talked not that long ago. And I had read your older book, which at the moment is escaping me.
- [00:42]
B
Rooted in wonder.
- [00:43]
A
Rooted in wonder. I know. I posted about it so so many times. I can picture it even in my head. Rooted in wonder. And it was such a phenomenal conversation. And then you were like, well, I have a newer book and it's called the Nature of Rest. What the Bible and Creation Teach Us About Sabbath Living. Thank you for coming back.
- [00:59]
B
Yeah, thanks so much. I love this topic and it's. It's a joy to get to share about it.
- [01:03]
A
So this is almost like a six week devotional with these different parts of the book that have under the microscope and the roots and rest and reflect. And I love the topic too. You also have your own podcast. Tell us about that before we dive into the nature of rest.
- [01:16]
B
Thank you. Yeah, I teach a podcast for kids and families, Nat Theo. That's short for natural theology, and it is nature lessons Rooted in the Bible. So we dive deep into all sorts of creatures like the axolotl, and we're doing giraffes upcoming and different plants and ocean creatures. But really what we're looking at is how does all this work and what does it teach us about God? So our kids are learning science and scripture at the same time.
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A
Where'd that idea come from?
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B
Oh, goodness. I never planned on podcasting. I never planned on children's podcasting. At the time I was writing books for parents and nonfiction parenting books. And then I started working as a master naturalist, which we talked about last time. And when Rooted and Wonder released, I. I just got this little idea in my mind about what Jesus's favorite bird might have been. And so I wrote up this little script and put it out there. I didn't even know how to start a podcast. So I'm googling, like, how do I get this thing on the air? So that night I figure it out and it goes off into the interwebs and Lo and behold, some people listen to it. And then I put out another episode, and I'm thinking, okay, this will be a hobby. Like, I'll have fun, and when I get a little idea, I'll put it out there. And really quickly, my husband and I were watching it, and we're like, wait, wait, there's something to this. Like, people are listening. A lot of people are listening. And so very quickly, it actually became the bulk of my work. And that's our main focus now is the Nat Theo podcast.
- [02:36]
A
Okay, so tell me about. So people know, when does it come out? And, you know, how do you prep for it? Like, do you have a long list of ideas? Are there constantly new ideas?
- [02:45]
B
Yeah, we release every Tuesday. We have a new lesson, and then we do a bonus episode once a month with, like, a special guest scientist or to help the kids really see what they can do in the nature and science world. But every Tuesday is a new lesson, and the prep looks. I mean, we are usually planned out two to three months on episodes. But it's funny because sometimes it's just stuff I'm really curious about, like octopus and true eels and electric eels. And other times it's what my kids are curious about or what they're teaching me. Like, mom, did you know this? No, I had no idea. And it becomes an episode. But more often now, it's actually kids can call into our website and record a nature question, and then we play their question on the episode. And those have inspired so many of our lessons.
- [03:30]
A
Oh, I would imagine you have learned a tremendous amount.
- [03:33]
B
I can't even tell you, Jenny. Stuff I never thought I would be spending days, weeks, months researching.
- [03:40]
A
I just talked to this man, his name's Justin Whitmill early, and he wrote a book called the Body Teaches the Soul. And we are talking about trellising and how in the garden. I find trellising to be rather annoying, partially, I think, because I've never built my own. I didn't realize. I. I've actually always. This is a dumb question, dumb thing, but I've always been like, what did people do before plastic? Because I buy these, like, things that stick in the ground, and then, you know, and, like, they never work. They're always falling over. And then we moved into this house that had some metal ones, and I was like, these are kind of better, but they don't really stick in the ground. Well, and anyway, so then my friend Kayla, she makes her own out of, like, stick she finds in the woods, and then twine. And then I Saw him at this place near us called Greenville Village. And I was like, oh, these are really pretty, these trellises. So he was talking in his book about stacking habits and how habits just help us to have more fruit and, like, you know, like these trellises. So God made certain fruits and vegetables to need this climbing structure so that they can produce more. And I don't know where I was. Oh, oh, here's where I was going with it. So then he said he talked to his mom about this jasmine plant that she had, and basically that if she didn't trellis, it would kind of like turn on itself and like, wrap around itself and possibly kill itself. And he was just relating that to, like, spiritual life lessons. And I thought, I wonder if God is like, yes, they got it. You know, they saw the thing. It's like God has embedded so many of these spiritual lessons in creation. And so many of them, people went centuries without even knowing because they couldn't see into the stars or they couldn't see into the oceans. And now it's like more and more are discovered. And you wonder if God's like, ye.
- [05:17]
B
Found that one, you know, I totally think so. And that's so fun to think about because I'll tell you, like, I. I went to Bible college and grew up in a Christian home learning the Bible my whole life. And all of that was necessary and so important to my life story. But nothing has grown my faith more than looking at nature and these designs that we see all around us. And it's so fun. Like, what a fun education that we get to go out and explore and learn so much and then be able to teach our kids and guide them in that journey as well.
- [05:46]
A
Oh, I love it. So this book, the Nature of Rest, you can use it like a devotional or you can just read it through. I read it through, and I thought it would probably work either way. You know, if you just want to sit down and read the chapters or you can do it in, like, a devotional format. You could do it with yourself or with your family, but you have all of these nature parallels. And like you said, you know, you look into nature's design, you look into God's design, and you see brilliance and you see creativity and you see intent. You see just this masterful, unbelievable, like, really, truly unbelievable. Unbelievable. The hummingbird was like, some of these. These things are just unbelievable. And you're like, yeah, God and his brilliance was able to do that, you know, so that, I guess the spectrum of, you know, of things that you can learn and the differences between the sloth and the hibernating. So I want to talk about a couple of them, and then that will give people, I think, a little sense, probably, of your podcast, where you're talking about all of these things in depth. So can you kick us off with the hummingbird Now? I see a hummingbird once a year. I like random. I like once. I like. I'm always hoping. Every year I think I'm gonna see one. And I did see one this year at this place called Greenfield Village. And, you know, like, last year there was one in our garden. And they're there and they're gone. And I've not studied them much, but they are remarkable. And you talk about them in your book, the Nature of Rest.
- [07:04]
B
Yeah, they are remarkable. And they are just here and gone because these. These tiny little birds, of course, they need to get nectar from flowers, and they have to visit between 1000 and 2000 flowers every day to get the nectar to that they need. Isn't that crazy? A thousand to two thousand flowers. And so that's why we see them just zipping here, there into the next flower. And they seem like they're constantly in motion. And they're little heartbeats, which are about the size of a pencil eraser, but they're actually. This is so cool. They're tiny, but they are the largest heart in the animal kingdom relative to their body size. Isn't that adorable? They have the biggest animal heart. And that little heart, it will pump up to 70 or. Sorry, sorry. I went right into their heart. Their heart just amazes me. Their heart pumps. What is it, 1400 times a minute? Their heart rate has to pump that fast because it has to fuel their wing beats. Because that constant motion, Jenny, like, we can't even see it. Their wings will beat up to 70 times every second. Isn't that phenomenal? 70 times a second or 4200 times a minute? And so these little birds, they're constantly in motion.
- [08:14]
A
And I think.
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B
I know, like, me as a parent, especially as a homeschool, I don't know, all of us parents, we can feel like that hummingbird, right? Like we're just zipping from one thing to the next. And there's. We always need to gather more, and there's always demands. But the incredible thing is that hummingbirds have to rest. What sustains their constant fruitful activity is this beautiful rest strategy called torpor. And torpor, it's kind of like a mini hibernation where the little bird, it's going to go into this deep restful state where it's actually unresponsive. People have found them in torpor before and thought that they're dead because they're unresponsive. And they'll lower their heart rate by about 50, 50%. And they'll even like, if they're clinging to a branch or a little feeder, if they're asleep, they'll fall and like hang upside down. But they don't even know it because their feet are also designed to keep clinging to that feeder. And so it's this regular, rhythmic, intentional rest that actually sustains them. And what a beautiful pict that like we are created for work. We have this purposeful work and calling of raising the next generation, this fruitful work. But it is always meant to be sustained by intentional, regular, rhythmic rest.
- [09:28]
A
You say all around nature. You watch the animals, they have rhythms. You look out in nature. Nature does not need permission to rest. The more I observe nature, the more I see a freedom to rest. Wildlife follows its God ordained design of rest without worry about whether it's neighbor moose. It thinks it's staying busy enough. So you talk about all of these different animals and plants that are showing these patterns of rest. So the hummingbird is one. Have you done an episode on Nat Theo about the hummingbird?
- [09:57]
B
We did. Actually for the launch of this book, we did six special episodes on Nat Theo where we were teaching analogies from this book, but at a child's level that they could see the value of living a restful and slow lifestyle.
- [10:11]
A
Ah, that's so awesome. I'll make sure I'll link those in the show notes. So you talk about that this is so much faster than the average human heart rate that we feel like our pace can be so nonstop like the hummingbird, but that this is just another part of God's creation that's teaching us about the essential of rest. You say the body is this the hummingbird, Their body temperature drops.
- [10:34]
B
Yeah, yeah. That's true of hibernating animals. And the hummingbird will do that also. These physiological changes that have to happen in an animal in order for them to be able to go into that restful state.
- [10:46]
A
Okay, so let's talk about some of the other ones. The one you talked about, hibernation, actually, I didn't know too much about this. So you say, because the thing you learned as a kid is that bears.
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B
Hibernate, which is not true.
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A
Okay, so can you explain that and then tell us about the woodchuck?
- [11:00]
B
Yeah, I love this One. So, I mean, we always hear growing up, right, that's our. That's the idea we get in our minds when we think about hibernation. Is the bear, you know, all fat and happy and going into its den and napping for the winter. And yes, they do take these long restful naps during the winter, but they don't actually hibernate. True hibernating animals, those are going to be your smaller mammals. And they go through four dramatic physiological changes where their heart rate slows way down, their body temperature goes down, their metabolism slows, their breathing slows, and their meta. Just all of these changes in their body, but they have to be dramatic. And the bear, it doesn't have dramatic enough changes to be considered a true hibernator. So what they do is called carnivore lethargy, or a lot easier to say is denning. Because mama bears, think about it, they wake up during this time to have their cubs. And if you've ever had a newborn, you know that's not a restful season. And so during this time, they're actually tending to newborn cubs. But then we talk about true hibernators like the woodchuck that's going to have those dramatic, dramatic changes in its body to where I think they're breathing just a couple times a minute. And so, like this concept of these animals that they have to prepare for this rest. Think about the bears, even though they're not truly hibernating, they go through this season called hyperphagia, where they are consuming up to 20,000 calories a day.
- [12:32]
A
Wow.
- [12:33]
B
And think about, like, our black bears here, they eat a ton of berries and sometimes, like insects and worms, they have to be spending a lot of time to get all those calories. It's like 80 pounds of berries a day, if they were to only get it from berries. And then all these other animals that have to prepare these areas where they're going to rest, we talk about there's this wasp that actually like goes and scrapes wood from trees or fences and turns it to a pulp in its mouth. And then it'll like make its hibernaculum. And a hibernaculum is like the area where they hibernate. These beautiful examples of nature prepares to rest. And the same is true for us because rest doesn't come naturally. We have to actually fight for it and prepare for it.
- [13:19]
A
Yes, that's a really good point. So one of the things that we're going to be talking about is taking a Sabbath, which is an ancient Practice that some people have always kept and some people have never kept. And I think a lot of people actually are coming back to that or coming to it for the first time because they're feeling this toil like the hummingbird, the pace, pace, pace, pace, and it's never stopping. So I'm excited to talk about that and how you. That. That nature prepares to rest. You can't just all of a sudden be like, well, I'm gonna. I mean, you could you. There's some work involved to figure out your resting, which is a really interesting point. So you talked about the. Well, there was another one in here. Well, the trees. So let's talk about that as one more, and then we'll talk about the. The Sabbath. So you say the trees also prepare. There's so many examples. The trees prepare to rest as well.
- [14:07]
B
Yeah. Think about this. Like, we're so familiar, of course, with leafy deciduous trees letting go of their leaves come fall. Right. But there's so many different processes going on for that to happen. With the shortening of days and less sunlight, the trees turn off their production of chlorophyll, that green pigment that helps them photosynthesis, photosynthesize, and get their sugars. And so they're turning off that process. A lot of trees will create. They'll use little tiny cells to make a little. It's kind of like a cork block between the branch and the leaf so that the leaf can actually fall off. And so they're preparing in all these different ways. Different trees will store water or get rid of some water. And then even coniferous trees, pine trees that we think like, oh, they just do the same thing year round. No, even they prepare for winter, a lot of them will create this waxy substance on their leaves. It's kind of like antifreeze to keep them from freezing. And so even in the tree world, the plant world, we're seeing all these ways that nature has to prepare in order to rest. And for nature, it's critical. It is vital. It's what keeps these things alive. And I wholeheartedly believe that the same is true for us.
- [15:17]
A
Okay, so then let's talk about preparing to rest as people. So you write about with the trees, you say shedding leaves actually is an active process, which I wouldn't have thought of that. I would have thought of it as a very inactive process, like the things are just falling off. But you're like, no, there's all sorts of things that are happening there in order for that tree to get ready to rest. So there's the weekly rhythm of resting, of, of taking a day work. There's obviously our nightly rest. So same thing. I. I just think we've lost all of that. You know, it's like when people are on their phone and then they turn it off and go to bed. Like, there's no preparation e either for nightly rest. There's really no preparation for either. So can you talk about your Sabbath? And you talk in this book, you kind of give some of the details of what, of what you do, but you actually say that this is, even. This is considered resting before work yet.
- [16:07]
B
Because I think that something that is so ingrained into us from society is that we work to rest. Like, let me get all these things done, and then maybe at the end of the day I can rest. Maybe on the weekend I can rest maybe on vacation or in retirement or when the kids are grown. But that's backwards to the biblical thinking. Because think about back at creation. So God worked for six days and then he rested, not because he needed to. Isaiah tells us God does not grow tired or weary. But for one, I think he wanted to set a pattern for us because we would need to rest and to see rest as a gift. Because think about it. God created, created Adam, the first person on the sixth day. And so Adam's first full day was the seventh day marked for rest. And so while God works and then rests, we were always meant to start from rest. And when we start viewing it that way, not as like this reward if we get everything done, but instead, no, we start from this place of rest. And that is what fuels everything that we do. And so it took me really changing my mindset around rest. I had practiced Sabbath in different ways growing up and always felt like I, like, failed it. And so I was really apprehensive stepping into this. Our family has Sabbath for four years now, weekly Sabbath. And as we came to it, I had all these doubts of how are we going to get everything done? Is this really relevant? Is it realistic? Can we do this? Because my husband and I, we're raising four kids, we're homeschooling them, we're running businesses. But really, no matter our situation, like this life, this world, we are all busy. But we stepped into it in faith. And I will tell you, Ginny, so quickly we became more effective, more productive, more creative. When we started from this place of rest.
- [18:01]
A
It is interesting you talk about it even from the standpoint of a day, so you say, in Jesus's time. And for those observing Hebrew Traditions, a day begins at dusk, thus a day starts with rest. I've never heard any of this. Can you elaborate there, too? So it's built into the weekly rhythm, but also into the daily rhythm.
- [18:20]
B
Yeah, because when I was writing the Nature of Rest, I wanted to see, okay, where do we see rest in Scripture, and where do we see it in creation? And in both of them, I found that rest is everywhere. And in Scripture, it's not only this idea of Sabbath. We talk a lot about that. We spend a whole week on what Sabbath is, why it's important, how we can actually practice it, but also these daily rhythms of rest. Like, think about our circadian rhythm that God designed into us, this regular rhythm of waking and resting and working. And it's coming back to that because, you know, with the invention of electricity, our whole idea of a day changed. And especially nowadays when we can work from anywhere at any time. And so it's coming back to that natural rhythm of rest. And in the book, we spend a week talking about these daily rhythms of rest. I call them selah pauses. So think about that word selah in the psalms. Bible scholars are really torn up about what that word means. It's really mysterious. But most agree that it was literary or liturgical or musical. And it's this intentional pause to stop, to reflect, to recalibrate, to redirect if needed. And so we talk about all these things we can do, these little pauses. For me, some of my favorites are before the kids get up, just spending five minutes by myself quietly. Sometimes I'll pray, sometimes I'll read. Sometimes I will just sit, watch the sunrise. Like, it seems so simple, but it's powerful. And we talked about last time, just the power of watching a sunset or a sunrise or like, oh, my goodness, this was amazing. The other night we had the aurora borealis here, and we've never seen them from our home before. We're in Colorado, so usually we're just too far south. But we look out the window, and there they are. And so my kids are like, can we. Can we go down? We live on a little lake, and they're like, can we go down to the shore and watch it? So we just sat out there and watched it. And that's an extreme example. You don't always have the aurora borealis out your window, but going on a short walk, sitting for a cup of tea, because it seems so simple. But do we do it? It's like we have to remind ourselves, punctuate our days with these rhythms because we are so prone to go, go, go do more, create. And we have to say let's stop and recalibrate. Because if we don't, how many moments of connection with God and with each other are we missing?
- [20:44]
A
It's real interesting, the rhythms of it, because when you consider starting from rest as opposed to ending with rest, I think when you end with rest, it often feels like a collapse. It almost maybe does feel like the hummingbird where you're like completely unresponsive. But, but a different, it's a different perspective to look at it from. Like, Adam's first day was not work, God's was, Adams was not. And I have never considered that. I've never heard anybody talk about that before. And similar to the day when it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things people genuinely love. Beautiful, timeless pieces they'll wear for years. And that's why I'm going with Quince. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. Quince truly has something for everyone. Their soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at just $50 and they look and feel like the designer pieces you see for 200 or more. 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Quince.com outside does anyone else feel like the holidays just showed up overnight? One minute we're picking pumpkins, in the next I'm looking around house thinking wait, do we have enough guest towels? Where's the wreath from last year? And who am I still missing gifts for? If you are in that same last minute Scramble. Wayfair has been such a lifesaver for us during this season. The holidays are here and you get what you need fast with Wayfair. From bedding and linens to decor for every room in the house, it is truly your one stop shop. We've been adding some final holiday touches to our home and I recently ordered a couple things from Wayfair. A beautiful neutral throw blanket for the living room and the sweetest little lamp for the kids reading night nook. Everything came with fast. Free hassle, free delivery. And it all looked even better in person than online. It is amazing how one new piece can make your home feel warm, refreshed and ready for hosting. And if you're in the gifting mode, Wayfair really is the perfect place to shop for anyone on your list. Their selection is huge. Every style, every budget. And I keep finding things I didn't even realize they carried, like kitchen essentials, storage solutions and seasonal decor. To get everyone in the holiday spirit. Now is the time to get your home ready so you can actually enjoy the holidays with your family instead of running around trying to catch up. Wayfair truly has everything your home needs this season. Get last minute hosting, essentials, gifts for your loved ones and decor to celebrate the holidays. For way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. So you can, I don't think you know it. You keep a Sabbath if it feels like it's the last day of the week or the first day of the week or you know, like starting with rest or ending with rest. I think keeping a day and consecrating a day, I don't even know if that's the right word. But you know, setting apart a day so that it's given to what God has called us to do and also seeing like how, how does this work? Like, can God really move if I only have six days of work and really take one off and set it apart for him and for rest and for delight. So you talk then about your logistics. What does Sabbath look like in a modern context? So this is just an interesting conversation. I didn't grow up doing this like we went to church, but Sunday was exhausting and I, when I was always tired and bored and hungry and all those things. So. And I mean it never felt like a restful day. And then you're always kind of like on the precipice of School. So you're like, oh, school is tomorrow. I've got all this homework to do. So I didn't grow up this way. We did it a little bit when our kids are toddlers, we've come back to it, but very much from a non knowledgeable standpoint, just of like, well, this says the seventh day is holy. Honor the Sabbath. Like we try and keep the other commandments. Like I've tried not to commit adultery or murder, so maybe, you know, I should do this other one too. So in a modern context, I know in other places of the world like everything is shut down on a Sabbath and it's cultural. How have you managed to do it where it's sort of maybe an odd or different or uncommon thing to do?
- [25:26]
B
You. It is odd, it is uncommon, it is very countercultural. And going into that, just knowing that it's going to be hard and messy is really helpful and that it's a practice like Hebrews tells us, strive toward rest because it's not easy. And so, you know, I'll go into the practical. But before we do that, I want to just like paint this picture. This is such a life giving thing for our family. It is probably like the easiest of the commandments to skip, especially because it does just feel so unrealistic or unrelevant in our society. But when we choose not to skip it and when we say no, like let's see what God has for us in this. It is so powerful because I mentioned that God stopped to rest at creation to set a pattern for us. But the second reason I believe he stopped and chose to rest was to stop and delight. The word Sabbath comes from the Hebrew word Shabbat, which can mean to both stop and delight. And that's what this day is. And so for us, like you mentioned, Sunday, Sunday is not restful. It is so important for our church community and worship and fellowship. But by the time we get all the kids dressed and everyone showered maybe and like to church and back, yeah, we're spiritually filled up, but kind of exhausted. And so our family knew we needed a, a separate day set aside to rest. And so we Sabbath, usually from Friday evening to Saturday evening. But I tell people, don't let that hang you up. Like don't think I can't give a full day to this, so I'm not gonna do it. Start smaller. I would suggest nothing shorter than four hours and protect that time fiercely. Maybe it's four hours on a Wednesday evening, depending on your schedule. But start small and work toward and Pray toward that full day. And so for us on Friday afternoon, there's like this physical anticipation, like Sabbath is coming. And I mentioned Sabbath has actually made us more productive. That's because when you put those boundaries around your work, your work time becomes a lot more productive, knowing that rest is coming. And so we'll prepare in several ways. For me, I have to prepare mentally by answering any lingering emails. I even put it in a way message on my email. So if people email me on our Sabbath, it sends an automatic reply that says, hey, thanks so much for your message. My family's resting. I'll get back to you in the new week. So that mentally I'm not even thinking about responding or checking my email. And then we will just get our home ready. And that's not a deep clean by any means. That is like washing all the dishes, vacuuming, picking things up. I'll do a grocery order or go get groceries on that day to make sure we have everything we need. So we're not running to the store, we're not spending money, we're not driving in traffic. And then we start our Sabbath with communion together as a family and just celebrating what Christ has done for us. And then we toast to the week. We'll pour like sparkling juice and just like, hey, what can we celebrate this week? What hard things did we overcome? What did we see God do? Like, what can we just delight in this week? And then an easy dinner, something no one's going to argue about. Think taking baked pizza, spaghetti tacos, and then we'll have like a sweet treat to wrap up. And then when the kids go to bed, or more often, they're listening to audiobooks. Audiobooks are massive for Sabbath, I'll tell you. Like, like audiobooks and podcasts because it's screen free, but they're still entertained and listening to great stories. And so my husband and I, that's when we read. People will ask me, like, when do you find time to read? You don't. You don't find time to read. You make time to read, as you know. And for us, that's on the Sabbath. And so I love just sitting with a good book. And I'll often have my journal and I'm writing by hand so that when Monday comes, I'm ready to get back to work. I am filled up. I am creative, I have all these ideas flowing. But then Saturday morning we sleep in. And I know that is not realistic for some families. If you have newborns, if you have young kids, that's okay. There's seasons and it's gonna look different. And so for us it was working toward that. And our kids just know now don't wake mom and dad on Sabbath morning. And they kind of get their own first breakfast. And then eventually we'll wake up when our bodies want to wake up. And then sometimes we'll make like a big brunch. But if we don't feel like cooking, it's just like, like grab and go all day long or like a charcuterie tray. And paperware. Paperware is huge. And that's a little controversial because I'm a master naturalist and like nature is my work. But on Sabbath I'm all about paperware because we're not washing the dishes. But I'll tell you, Ginny, that day is just for delighting. It's for reading good books, taking naps or taking turns taking naps if you have young children or asking a friend to come over so you can take a nap. Sharing conversations, playing games. In the winter, we do a lot of board games together as a family or we'll go out and play in the sn. Sabbath is for gardening, if that is refreshing to you and you're working behind a computer most of the week and you just want to go out and feel the sun on your skin and the dirt on your hands. Sabbath is for all those things that, you know, during the week we think, oh, I would love to do that, but I don't have time. It's that catch all. And so for me, like I love watercoloring on Sabbath. And it's also this catch all for those times during the week when my child comes to me and they say, hey, can you read this book with me or can you do this with me? And I say no, Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for not so good reasons. But we know Sabbath is coming. And so my kids know like, oh well that's okay. They'll we get to do that on Sabbath. So it's this built in connection point.
- [30:52]
A
There's a lot of ideas there and there are a lot more in the book you talk about what does the Sabbath look like in modern context. You have lots of practical info in here. Kind of toward the end when we did it when we had toddlers, I on Friday morning I would make ahead the meals for Saturday, which was really remarkable because I otherwise I like could hardly cook anything. But I just felt like God blessed it somehow. You know, we would make a batch of muffins, we cut up a bunch of melon. It'd be in the Fridge. Then I do, like, different casserole things, and then you just get them out and pop them in. Because I felt like, especially at those ages, cooking, I know a lot of people are like, well, we make a big breakfast or something on the Sabbath. But at those ages, I just felt like cooking with a bunch of kids underfoot was so stressful and exhausting. And so we did that. And then we would watch, like, cartoons. The kids were allowed to watch cartoon. You know, pick a cartoon on Friday night. It definitely was more of like, like the torpor. My heart has been beating 4, 200 times a minute, and I'm exhausted and I'm just going to be in a stupor and, like, unresponsive. It felt like that in those years, but in, you know, now. So we trying to. I really like the Sundown to sundown, but that's not working for us right now in these seasons with different sports and things. So we're doing Fridays, and it's not perfect. It's not perfect. I like Sundown to sundown because it helps you to see the passage of time. I think it's actually really eye opening. It's just that reminder. And you're a little bit more in tune with, like, the natural seasons. But, you know, we do. We're doing Fridays right now, and it's like, not totally perfect, but we're trying our best at it. And to your point, it's a practice. And so if people are interested in learning more, there's a lot in your book you say, we are inclined to raise an objection to rest. We might think that an entire day, or even a big portion of a day devoted dress feels frivolous, perhaps even lazy. But you say, take a measured risk and trust God's math. Gather up his gift of rest. It is more than sufficient. But this has changed my view of it. To look at it as the first day. Adam's first day was a day of rest, and then he went into the work. I think that's an interesting way to look at it and something I've never heard of. Erin?
- [32:56]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of apprehension when I get to share about this message with moms, with parents. There's so much apprehension. First, like, can we do this? Is this even allowed? Yes, it's allowed and it's good for you. But then the. The apprehension of, will my kids be on board? Especially if Sabbath includes putting away all the screens, which I highly recommend. And I just want to encourage listeners. Like, I had all of these doubts I had all these apprehensions but a year and a half into our Sabbath practice. So we had been in this regular rhythm. And for the first year we didn't drive anywhere on Sabbath. We had to learn to stay home. So every Saturday we just stayed home. So we're in this rhythm, we're loving it. And our oldest was 11 at the time, our son. And we experienced a loss in my husband's family and his, his brother was unexpectedly killed. And so we are in this season of just grieving and completely thrown off our rhythms. And we are traveling and memorial service and all out of sorts. And then our 11 year old, he came to us after the third week and he said, mom, dad, can we please Sabbath this weekend? Like he felt it deep within the marrow of his bones because we were made for this. And so all these apprehensions, all these doubts, just know it's gonna be worth it. Like God doesn't let these efforts go to waste. And just think about, we as parents, we get to set the pace at which our children are living. We get to set the pace of their childhood. That is powerful. Everything around us wants to steal that. People wanna interject and they wanna dial the pace of our kids childhoods. But we as the parents, we have the responsibility and the opportunity and the power to say no, we're gonna live slower. We're going to make this time, we're going to make it powerful, we're going to make sure we have these connections. Like we get to set that pace.
- [34:51]
A
Isn't that interesting too? Like if you, if you think about it long term, you're like, wouldn't it be wonderful if they go into their adult life already having some of that pace? Like it will really protect them. Things are only speeding up, they're not slowing down. And there is this man named Dan Buettner who talks about the blue zones where people live to be in their hundreds. And one of the communities that he centered in on any, in the practice that they kept. The practice that they kept, that he zeroed in on as the reason that they're leaving to be so long was that they sabbathed, they took one day off a week and it like really affected maybe they're like heart health and I don't remember all the science behind it. And he wasn't even coming at it from a religious standpoint, he was coming at it from a bodily practice, I guess scientific standpoint about how much it affected their health. So beyond the fact that you're maybe a little bit more focused on your work, you're a little bit more joyful in your work because you get this time off, and then you, you know, you get to get back to it. You get this extra time as a family. I think it really also affects your physical health. What a blessing. The way that. That God's plan, God's pattern, God's rhythms. They're good for our health and for our kids. And then you're sort of setting the stage for them that they don't have to run themselves ragged as they start to hit their teen and adult years.
- [36:08]
B
Yeah.
- [36:09]
A
So people can find out more information, like, if that's something that's been on your heart and you've been thinking about it, and we're go, go, go, go. There are things that you can try. And I love that you talked about start small. And there's a lot of ways that families do it so you can find your own rhythm with it. All right, I want to talk about this because this book is filled with these object lessons about nature and things that we can learn there. And you talk about how God uses birds in his teaching. So that's great. A lot. He uses birds, right. Like, they will mount up on wings like eagles. So, like, these birds and different types of birds right there. I think there's ostrich in Ecclesiastes.
- [36:47]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:48]
A
So different types of birds are brought up throughout the scriptures. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny and yet not one of them will, you know, will fall without their father noticing? Are you not of much more value than the sparrow? So I learned this year, because you're like, oh, yeah, you know the sparrow, and you know your heavenly father feeds them. And you're like, okay, yeah, sure. But I've never really spent a lot of time observing a sparrow. And then I read a book by Douglas Tallamy where he was talking about how many caterpillars that the mother bird will feed to the chicks. And that changed my whole perspective on what all of that even means. So can you talk about how. How when you're like, oh, yeah, God feeds the birds, you know, but you're like, no, this is actually, like, a really big deal.
- [37:36]
B
It is. It's huge. When you go to this deeper level of this is why I do what I do. Because when you. When you go to this deeper level of nature, it highlights what God teaches in scriptures when he's using these nature narratives. And so I learned about the sparrow feeding her chicks and all the insects and caterpillars through the book Slow Birding. And in that she says that the sparrow parents, you know, we think they're just like bringing back an insect here and there, but it will require three to four thousand insects to raise their chicks from hatching to fledging. And I've seen this because in our backyard we have this. We call it the sparrow condominium, where it has, like 12 different nests that the sparrows use every summer. And it. It is a riot. These birds are just coming and going, and you watch the parents, and they'll actually take turns. So one goes out, and then you'll see it come back with a big insect or a ca. Caterpillar in its mouth. And then you'll even hear the babies inside chirping. And they're so excited for the next meal. And then they'll go in and then the other parent will go out. And so all day long they're taking these turns. And even after their babies fledge, they spend a few weeks still with them, flying around and teaching them how to find these insects. We've seen that too. Out our front window, we'll often see sparrow parents with their fledglings. And it's so fun because the babies line up on the branch and then the parents come and feed them on the branch. So all this work that goes into feeding these sparrows and think about God back at creation, planning the plants and the ecosystems and the insects and the berries and everything that would go into feeding a sparrow. And then think about that scripture, how more does the father care for us that he was planning for our provision far, far back, beyond what we can even imagine, right?
- [39:23]
A
Because there has to be that and thousands of caterpillars because they say the early burn gets the worm. But they actually. I learned from Douglas telling me that mainly it's caterpillars that they're eating, right? So they're eating. And he's got these pictures in his books. Like, I mean, they're so vibrant, you know, and. And they're like, it's thousands and thousands. And you're like, I didn't even know my yard had thousands of caterpillars. That's just for one set of chicks. So you talk about, like you said, we are much more valuable to God than the birds. And he created these entire ecosystems with plants and insects to provide for just these little sparrows and all of these other birds. So they're beautiful reminders out in nature not only to rest, but also of our value. Then you talk about how when rest is interrupted in the animal kingdom, so if hibernation is interrupted or with the monarch, when they're liquefying, basically in the chrysalis, before they hatch into a butterfly, if it's interrupted, it can be very devastating. I mean, completely devastating. And, yeah, we do not look at rest the same way for ourselves.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah, this is a big thing we talk about in the book, is how vital rest is. When you think about creatures, they spend their entire day thinking about survival. We need more food, we need more water, we need to reproduce, we need shelter, we need rest. And so the animals rest is actually a part of their vital activities and it needs to be for ours too. Like, think about Ginny. Have you ever seen that visual where someone has a jar and then they fill it with the rocks and the sand?
- [41:00]
A
Yes, yes. And then you can always add in water. Like, it depends on which. Which way you put the things in. Yeah, yeah.
- [41:06]
B
And so I'll do this where I'll. I'll take the rocks and the jar represents, like one week of your time. And then the rocks are everything you value, those really important things, your health, your faith, your family, and hopefully it's your work, like these things that are really important to you. And when you put those in first and then you pour in sand, which is all the extra stuff, you know, some of it important that has to get done. We have to cook meals, we have to wash the laundry. But other things that are probably distractions, like scrolling, desk scrolling and things like that, you know, when we start with the big things first, the sand will fit in around it and fill in the gaps. And actually some of it will be naturally filtered out. So starting with our priorities filters out the extra stuff that maybe shouldn't be there in the first place. But if we start with sand and all the extra stuff and distractions, there's no room for the things that truly matter. And that's how we have to view rest as one of those big rocks, as something vital, as something we start with. Because if we start with all the distractions and think, oh, I'll rest if I have time. You won't have time time. You have to start with it.
- [42:10]
A
Right. And this is what the animals are starting with. They're starting with those basic building blocks. Yes. So I mean that we can learn a lot from the nature that's around us. You talked about a couple other examples that were really interesting, and this would be so cool for kids to learn about and for you to learn about as a family. One of them was, maybe we'll have time for two of them. There's a lot of options in the book, you talk about the. These birds that can fly over the ocean. You talk about birds that don't sleep and, like, one part of their brain shuts off. I mean, so many miraculous and creative and brilliant, like the sloth. And you're like, you know, God made everything from this ostrich to the sloth to the elephant to the hippopotamus, to the gecko, I mean, to the hummingbird. All of these different creatures that are so different from each other and so unique and all have so many things to. To. To teach us. So you can learn a lot about them. In the book the Nature of Rest, one of the birds that flies over the ocean weighs 2/4 worth of weight, 2/4. And can fly all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. So one of the ones that I hadn't heard of and I thought would be really interesting to talk about is the fairy shrimp. You talk about. The fairy shrimp can teach us how to let go of control and allow God to arrange our circumstances and to wait on his time.
- [43:27]
B
The fairy shrimp come up. We have a whole chapter on waiting. Because as I was looking at the scriptures and where do we find rest? I found that it's really connected a lot of times with waiting. And we think of waiting, we're so uncomfortable with waiting. Like, it's like this, like, itchy sweater that we can't wait to take off. And we. We think that waiting is idle and that there nothing's happening. But waiting. These times, these seasons of waiting can be so powerful. And these little fairy shrimp, they're freshwater shrimp. Have you ever had sea monkeys? Did you have sea monkeys growing up that.
- [43:57]
A
Yes, we totally did that. Yeah.
- [43:59]
B
Yes, us too. Yeah. I think. I think it was like a 90s that you get around that. Although I saw it in the store the other day, it totally took me back. There was sea monkey kits.
- [44:07]
A
Sea monkeys are making a comeback. Are they real animals? Yeah, they were real, right? You like to hatch. You would hatch them.
- [44:14]
B
They're not monkeys and they're not from the sea. But they're brine shrimp. They're a type of brine shrimp. And so these fairy shrimp are very similar to sea monkeys. And our kids, we discovered these one day here in Colorado. We were up in Estes park by Rocky Mountain national park, and we're climbing around all these boulders. And it was summer and the boulders, you know, like, they can have these big indents in them. And some were full of water. And my kids, my boys were like, mom, come here, come see this, come see this. And so I go over and they're like belly down, staring into these depressions of water. And they're these little vernal pools. A vernal pool is a seasonal pond that fills up for part of the year. And a lot of life can happen in them. That's where a lot of salamanders, toads, frogs, things like that lay their eggs. Because there's no fish in them, so they. They don't have to fear for predation. Right. And that's so cool.
- [45:02]
A
Yeah, it's so interesting because there's a place in Michigan called Black Rocks in the Upper Peninsula. And it's a place where you can jump off of the rocks down into Lake Spring. Yeah, it's so cool. And it's very similar to that. It's like this whole rocky area, but there's always, you know, like little indentations. So there's these small pools and they're always filled with tadpoles and frogs. And the kids just think it's the coolest thing. And I've always been like, this is odd because it's not wet year round. Like, how does that even work? How, how cool. So that's actually called the vernal pond.
- [45:29]
B
Yeah, vernal. Vernal pool or vernal pond. And so we're up on these boulders and that's what we're seeing is vernal ponds. But my kids are like, look, what are these things? And we always carry with us a little jewel. Jewel, I can never say jewelry loop, those little magnifiers. And so we're looking at it, and we counted five different kinds of little tiny creatures wriggling around in this water. And one of them that we kept seeing, they were these little translucent creatures that are tiny, like maybe the size of your fingernail. And some of them had it almost look like trunks on their heads. I found out later those are the males. And then some of them had little translucent egg sacs with tiny bright orange eggs inside. And they're like fluttering through the water. And I'm like, are these aliens? Like, what have we found? And so later we went home, like we took a bunch of video of them, went home and researched. And then they're fairy shrimp, a freshwater shrimp that lives in vernal pools. And what, how they do this is the females. When they lay eggs, these pools dry out part of the year and the eggs go dormant. And so they're in like this little cyst. And they can remain dormant for dozens of years, some scientists think over a hundred years. Until the conditions are right. So sometimes the conditions, like, come back and water fills the next year and there's more fairy shrimp. But sometimes it's much longer. And how they get deposited is like birds will come and drink the water and they go poop out the eggs in another spot where they can hatch. So that's how these things spread. But think about this. Those eggs that can remain dormant, like the potential for life, something's going to happen. They can't control the circumstances. They can't control when it's going to rain or when the temperature's right. How many times in life are we in those seasons where we are waiting for something to happen, we're waiting for life. We can't control the circumstances around us. We have to depend on God and what might he be preparing us for? And I relate this to the apostle Paul in the Bible, because we think about Paul's incredible story where he is a persecutor of Christians, he's killing Christians, and then God gets a hold of his heart and literally reveals himself to Paul, speaks to him, and Paul becomes this incredible missionary who works with the churches and is just famous for all the work he does for Christ. But not immediately. You would think if you had this story where you literally heard from God, you would want to tell everyone. But instead, what we see is Paul went away for three years before he began his ministry. And many scholars believe that time was spent praying, studying the scriptures, and preparing. So we can view our seasons of waiting, like the fairy shrine shrimp, like Paul, as preparation. What might God be preparing us for?
- [48:10]
A
Fairy shrimp live and reproduce in a highly unpredictable environment. They are a beautiful reminder that we must let go of control. And you talk about that with Jesus, too, that he had a lot of waiting, he had a lot of rest, he had a lot of solitude, he had a lot of quiet. He didn't start his ministry until he was 30. I mean, like in this day and age, everything's all about early, early, early, early, you know, know, like, can you get on the whatever list by in your 20s or even younger? You see that even with social media, I mean, you can get pretty far pretty young. So you talk about how this is just a theme all throughout creation, throughout the Bible, the characters in the Bible, and also in nature. Okay, one more. So you compare the sloth, and I don't even know if you would say, because it's in two sections of the book. I compared it. So you talk about the sloth and when the sloth is born, and then you talk later on in the bighorn sheep. And the bighorn sheep has lambs and how there's such a difference between what the newborn whatever animal is, what they're capable of. So the newborn bighorn lamb sheep that they're as strong and as the adults pretty much within like an hour, they're like running on the mountains and all the tricky spots, like right after they're born. And you're like the sloth death clings to the mom for like six months, just moving so slow through the branches. So even that's such an interesting thing, isn't it, Aaron? Like there's so much variety. The variety is incomprehensible, really.
- [49:43]
B
It really is, yeah. Because you think about all these different creatures that right from birth they can stand up, they can find food. Like think about horses and their foals that stand up or I was researching giraffes. Giraffes. Today we're doing an episode on giraffes on that, Theo. And you know, they think about the giraffe that is when it's born, it's six feet tall and falls like five feet to the ground. And it's got these long spindly legs and this awkward body. And yet it stands up like pretty really, really shortly after birth. And so think about these animals that are very independent or chicks that hatch from eggs. Like so many animals that don't even see their parents ever. And then you have these other ones that are so dependent, like kittens that are blind. And bears are a big one for that, that are completely dependent on their parent or parents. And sloths are one of those because what we see with sloths is of course they're known for just being slow, like a sloth mama will, or adult sloths, they'll move across the treetops about 125ft every day. They do everything slow, from eating to moving to metabolizing their food. And we have a whole episode on them. And we talk about. The kids love it because we talk about how sloths, every week they come out of the tree, they climb down their tree to do their business at the base of the tree and then they climb back up. That's all. They come out of trees for once a week, super regular to go to the bathroom. Uh huh, yeah, yeah. But that's not what I teach about sloths. In the book. In the book I talk about how baby sloths, for the first six months of their lives, they cling to their mama. They are sinking into her embrace. They are matching her pace. And what a Vision, one for us to do with God, to be able to sink into His. His embrace and match his pace, his restful pace. But then as we do that, our kids sinking into our pace. Like I was saying earlier, we get to set the pace of our kids. So if we are able to step into these rhythms and practices, we're setting our kids up for restful lives. And then with the bighorns, I love bighorns. We have them here. We see them quite often here, especially up in the canyon heading up to Estes Park. And the first time I ever saw them, this was amazing. The first time I saw them in the wild was before we moved to Colorado. We were just visiting, and we're driving up the canyon and we saw bighorns up on the cliffs with babies, little lambs. And I later learned that these lambs, very quickly after birth, within, I think it's a few days, they start following the mama across these precarious edges. These bighorns, they can balance with their hoof on a ledge that is 2 inches thick, hundreds of feet up. It's so scary to watch, Ginny, because you're like, please don't fall.
- [52:23]
A
Like, what?
- [52:23]
B
What do I do if you fall? But they don't. Like, I've never seen one fall. But the little babies are doing this. They're following their mama. And the reason they do this is because predators, predators can't get to them on those cliffs. And the mamas, they lead the lambs to a safe, restful place. And what a vision for us, following God. Like, we don't know the way ahead. It's gonna be precarious. But he's leading us to these restful places. Psalm 23. He leads me beside still restful waters, to green pastures, and for us, for our kids, that we get to lead the way when we step into Sabbath, hey, this is gonna be hard. We don't know what this is going to look like. It's probably going to be messy. We might get angry at each other at times, but trust me, we're going to good places. Like, what a vision.
- [53:07]
A
Isn't that interesting, too, because they can't look down. I've always thought about that with birds. I'm like, how do they land on the branch? You know, their eyes look out. So the same for the sheep, right? Don't their eyes look out or ahead or whatever, whichever way they're looking? Like, you know, when I'm walking on something that's precarious, I'm, like, looking straight down. I'm like, Are my feet gonna. Gonna hit the rock and I'm. I'm gonna stay upright? But the sheep, it's like they're not even looking down. If they can balance on these two inches, they kind of just like, have, I guess, such amazing body awareness. I don't even get it.
- [53:40]
B
Maybe that's why they can do it. Like, if I look down, I'd be like, no way.
- [53:43]
A
All right. Yeah, right, right. But all of these different lessons that we can learn from the sloth. The kangaroo is another one right where the. That has to go into the pouch and aren't there. There's other pouch animals so that some are so dependent and then some are so independent. And to your point, some are born and there's not even a parent there at all. And they gotta figure out through their instincts what to do. And yet they do it. So this book is such a call to rest. You say rest is essential to life. It's what helped your family fully live. Rest is integral to God's design for humans and animals. Rest is the perfection of motion. I don't know. That's what someone else said. I might scratch that.
- [54:24]
B
Yeah, that was. No, no, no. We can go there. So Oswald Chambers, he was a late theologian, and his work has really shaped my. My life and my faith. And so he was talking about there, the passage that we, most of us, think about with rest, Matthew 11, where Jesus says, come unto me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Rest for your souls. And Oswald Chambers has this incredible quote about this passage that really changed my whole view on rest. Rest. Because he quotes Jesus and he goes, and I will give you rest. And he talks about. That's not Jesus saying, I'll hold your hand. I'll sing you to sleep. No, it's. He says, rest is the perfection of motion. And it's more Jesus saying, I will get you out of langer and exhaustion. I will so imbue you with the spirit of life. And so he talks about the perfection of motion, and that's where we tie in the hummingbird. Think about again, all that motion. Rest, Ginny. Rest is not idle. That's where so many people get hung up on this because we think that sounds boring sitting around all day. Sabbath is not sitting around all day. Sometimes it is, if we need it to be. But more so it is us coming to this perfection of motion, which is a balance and harmony between work and rest. It is aligning our lives with God's pace and his agenda.
- [55:45]
A
Right. Which is what We've lost because we're really heavy on the work and really light on the rest. The end of that quote said, are we living half dead, while alive? And I love that you really encourage the reader to trust that God can restore restful rhythms, even if you've really detached from it. And that God has already restored patterns of rest through Christ on the cross. And so you can just start where you at, start where you are, start. We start with something small. But rest does not take away from our work. Rest complements it. So there's a lot to learn in here. You talk about the Clark's NutCracker that stores 120,000 seeds each year and then knows where to find them. I mean, it's just, you know, it's like, this is the coolest, you know, you learn these things and you're like, what an incredible God that we serve and that we love. And how much more can we feel that we trust him when we know of the intricacies of the brilliance of all the things that he has planned and all the variety of it. So, Aaron, I just highly recommend this. You know, heading into New Year, the nature of rest. And this could be one of the things that you incorporate into your 2026 is striving to have a Sabbath, striving to have more rest. Daily rest. Weekly rest. And the book will help you get there. It's a six week study about the Bible and creation and what they teach us about Sabbath living. And then people can listen to the at Theo podcast with their kids. A family oriented, family friendly podcast where you can continue to learn about all these wonderful topics. Aaron, thanks so much for being here.
- [57:11]
B
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. And Doug here.
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A
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B
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