1KHO 686: Put Down the Phone and Pick Up Your Marriage | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish, I Didn't Sign Up For This

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 686: Put Down the Phone and Pick Up Your Marriage
Host: Ginny Yurich
Guest: Dr. Tracy Dalgleish
Date: January 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Tracy Dalgleish, a couples therapist and author of I Didn’t Sign Up For This. The conversation dives into how marriages can fade not through dramatic moments, but through a series of small, everyday disconnects—missed glances, digital distraction, unspoken needs, and more. Dr. Dalgleish shares her personal experiences alongside clients’ stories, highlighting how even therapists struggle with the same challenges as everyone else. The episode tackles the tension between hands-on, present living and the technological drift that impacts modern relationships, ultimately offering hope: meaningful change is possible, even if it starts with just one person.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Duped" Phenomenon and Relationship Reality

• Falling in love is biologically normal, but staying in love takes conscious effort and skills, which often aren’t taught.
• Early relationship “honeymoon” phases often mask underlying patterns and unhealed wounds that emerge with time, especially after major life transitions like having children.
• Notable Quote:

  “Unhealed wounds from childhood don’t necessarily show up in the honeymoon stage. Instead, they are more likely to emerge once we're more settled into a relationship, catching us by surprise.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [07:47]

2. Therapist Transparency and Human Experience

• Dr. Dalgleish purposefully shares her own relationship struggles in her book and on the podcast to dismantle the myth of the “perfect expert.”
• She emphasizes that therapists are “human longer than they’ve been therapists”, feeling the same resentment, overwhelm, and shame as anyone else.
• Notable Quote:

  “I, too, know what it means to be standing in the shower crying, saying the very things my clients kept repeating to me: ‘I didn’t sign up for this.’” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [05:22]

3. The Quiet Fade: Micro-Disconnects and Modern Marriage

• Marriage and partnership often erode from a “thousand small moments”—the phone at the table, missed looks, small dismissals—rather than from major betrayals.
• These moments are often made worse by the current tech-saturated culture.
• Ginny observes “parallel play”—where partners share space but are disengaged, especially when phones are present.
• Notable Quote:

  “All these micro-moments lead her to feel unseen and disconnected.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [35:24]

4. Imbalance and the “Mental Load”

• The mental load of family life falls disproportionately on women due to cultural norms and learned family roles.
• Tasks have three parts: conceptualization, planning, execution. Simply offloading “doing” to a partner is not enough.
• Dr. Dalgleish shares her personal struggle:

  “I'm confronted with imbalance first thing in the morning… I watch my husband leave the house for work without a backward glance. The imbalance is on full display again when I'm rocking our son to sleep for the fourth time, and Greg is out golfing with friends.” – [15:24]

5. Overfunctioning/Underfunctioning Dynamic

• Many couples fall into a pattern where one partner (often the woman) “overfunctions” (taking over all problem-solving and logistics), while the other becomes more passive (“underfunctioning”).
• This dynamic leads to frustration and resentment on both sides.
• Memorable Moment:
  Ginny’s sausage-for-dinner anecdote, reflecting how men may not take full ownership of household tasks—and how this can spark resentment. [25:40–27:32]

6. Resentment: Sources and Solutions

• Resentment is a slow-acting toxin in relationships, tied to long-standing unmet needs and unaddressed boundaries.
• The solution often starts inward: shifting your own behaviors, not waiting for your partner to change.
• Notable Quote:

  “Resentment … is anchored in bitterness, rejection, lack of recognition, the feeling of being taken advantage of... Often, it starts with ourselves. We have to do something different.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [30:37]

7. Digital Distraction and “Parallel Play”

• Phones and screens are major culprits in modern marriage disconnect.
• Being in the same space does not equal connection if one or both partners are distracted by devices.
• Suggestions offered:
  • Set “no phone” hours (e.g., during dinner or family time)
  • Keep devices out of common spaces
  • Create rituals for genuine engagement
• Notable Quote:

  “Our phones are touched more than we touch each other.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [38:32]

8. Acknowledgment as a Relationship Necessity

• Many stay-at-home or primary caregiver partners feel invisible because their daily work is unacknowledged.
• Acknowledging and appreciating your partner “should be basic” in a relationship.
• Notable Quote:

  “Acknowledgment should be a basic part of our relationships, especially when we notice our partner making significant efforts or putting aside their needs for our own.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [43:20]

• Tip: “Stack” acknowledgments with routine interactions (e.g., before asking a logistical question, offer a word of thanks).

9. Small Shifts, Big Impact: One Person’s Power

• Dr. Dalgleish upends the “it takes two to change” myth, arguing that one partner making intentional, values-driven choices can shift a relationship dynamic.
• Notable Quote:

  “It only takes one person to change a relationship dynamic.” – Dr. Tracy Dalgleish [40:50]

10. Mother-in-Law Dynamics and Boundaries

• Dr. Dalgleish discusses her book on navigating relationships with in-laws, sharing the emotionally charged story of her first child’s bath being “stolen” by her mother-in-law while her husband froze (“deer in the headlights” moment), and the importance of boundary-setting from day one. [52:27–55:51]
• Empathy and clear boundaries are essential for healthy, multi-generational family systems.

11. The Power and Need for Play

• Incorporating play and fun is essential for marital intimacy and connection, but can be difficult in seasons of stress or disconnection.
• “Play is what keeps a relationship alive. It allows us to know different parts of each other, make new memories, rekindle intimacy…” [51:39]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Comment | |---|---|---| | 05:22 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “I, too, know what it means to be standing in the shower crying ... I didn’t sign up for this.” | | 07:47 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “Unhealed wounds from childhood … more likely to emerge once we're more settled into a relationship.” | | 15:24 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “I'm confronted with imbalance first thing in the morning ... my life has been radically changed by the weight of managing the household in our marriage. Meanwhile, Greg's life appears unchanged.” | | 25:40 | Ginny Yurich | (On men making sausages for dinner) “Has anyone ever just served you meat? Like you've gone to a restaurant ... do they ever just give you steak?” | | 30:37 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “Resentment … is anchored in bitterness, rejection, lack of recognition, the feeling of being taken advantage of...” | | 35:24 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “All these micro-moments lead her to feel unseen and disconnected.” | | 38:32 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “Our phones are touched more than we touch each other.” | | 43:20 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “Acknowledgment should be a basic part of our relationships.” | | 40:50 | Dr. Tracy Dalgleish | “It only takes one person to change a relationship dynamic.” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:04] Introduction to Dr. Dalgleish and her books
• [04:49–06:52] Why she includes her personal stories in her work
• [14:01–15:57] Discussion on shame, societal silence, and imbalance in domestic roles
• [17:41–20:28] "Mental load" explained—conceptualization, planning, execution
• [25:40–27:48] Sausage dinner, over/underfunctioning pattern, and frustration
• [30:37–32:09] Deep dive into resentment and steps toward change
• [35:00–38:40] Phones, "parallel play," and techniques for digital discipline
• [43:20–46:41] Acknowledgment as a foundational relationship practice
• [52:12–55:51] Mother-in-law dynamics and the “first bath” story
• [57:14+] Advocating for mothers' needs and postpartum boundaries
• [60:43] Dr. Dalgleish’s favorite outdoor childhood memory

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Actionable Tips from the Episode

• Name the Pattern: Notice if you’re stuck in overfunctioning/underfunctioning dynamics and openly talk about it.
• Share the Load: Remember every task is more than just “doing”—acknowledge invisible labor.
• Model for Kids: Teach children about the full scope of household planning, not just execution.
• Set Digital Boundaries: Establish “no phone” zones/times to prioritize in-person attention.
• Stack Acknowledgment: Make a habit of verbally appreciating your partner’s everyday efforts.
• Start Alone: Don’t wait for your partner to change first—small, self-led shifts can ripple outward.
• Address In-laws Early: Set clear boundaries postpartum and be explicit about your family’s needs.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers practical, compassionate wisdom for anyone feeling stuck or unseen in their relationship. Dr. Dalgleish normalizes the struggle, shares hope, and insists that starting small—putting down the phone, saying thank you, or taking your 20 minutes—can nurture real transformation, even in marriages left on autopilot for years.

For more:
Check out Dr. Tracy Dalgleish’s books:

• I Didn’t Sign Up For This: A Couples Therapist Shares Real Life Stories of Breaking Patterns and Finding Joy in Relationships, Including Her Own
• You, Your Husband and His Mother

Listen for curiosity, encouragement, and most of all, practical steps for flourishing relationships in a tech-heavy world.

Transcript

[A]

Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on screen that's ever gonna be this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful. Welcome Back to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast, where we're trying to live a little more life and scroll a little less. Thank you so much for pressing play. This show is for people who want their days back. Today's episode is with couples therapist Dr. Tracy Doug Leish. And it's for anyone who has ever thought I didn't sign up for this. Sometimes marriage doesn't break in a single moment. It fades in a thousand small ones, missed looks, phones at the table, needs that go unseen. If you've ever felt unseen, unheard, or exhausted from holding everything together and you're still hoping for something better, you are not broken. You're human. In this episode, we named the patterns that pull couples apart over time and the small shifts that can bring them back. And here's the hopeful part. It only takes one person to start changing a relationship. This conversation shows what's in your control and how your choices can start to shift everything. Before we jump in, a few quick things that help keep this work going. If this podcast has ever encouraged you, one of the best ways to support it is simple. Leave a review wherever you listen or share an episode with one of your buddies. This show grows the old fashioned way. One person Sending it to one person. This is a review that came in last week from Sarah. This podcast gives me the frequent reminder I need that going against the cultural grain may be hard, but it's so good it helps me keep a vision of the life I want for my children. If you're looking for a practical way to build more real life into your days, our free 20261000 hours outside tracker sheets are available now at 1000hoursoutside.com trackers. They're simple, motivating, and shockingly effective at helping families follow through. And if paper isn't your thing, our 1000 hours outside app is on iOS and and Android, built to help you close your phone, not live in it. One more thing you'll hear today. Our intro song is called It's a Beautiful World by the band In Paradise. It features our oldest daughter on acoustic guitar and our middle daughter on background vocals. Those two also have their own little band called Two Better Friends. If you want some upbeat, joyful music to play around your house, go follow Both in paradise and Two Better Friends. I know our girls Would love a few more monthly listeners. All right, let's get into today's conversation.

[B]

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[A]

My name is Jenny Eric. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have read a book that is so insightful and there's actually two books. This is like everything that we need to be talking about. It's called I didn't sign up for this. A couple's therapist shares real life stories of breaking patterns and finding joy in relationships, including her own. She's also written a book about mother in laws, Dr. Tracy Douglish. How'd I do?

[B]

You did it. You got it. It just rolled right off.

[A]

Welcome. Thanks for being here.

[B]

Jenny. Thank you so much for inviting me here, for reading my books and also for the work that you're doing to help parents, mothers and to help families. So thank you.

[A]

Oh, you're so sweet. You know, I read your book and in some ways it was heart wrenching, you know, to look at, we've got kids that are ages 9 to 17, but to look at the situations, often when kids are really small and you're transitioning into becoming parents and how difficult that can be and these situations, I'm like, they made me emotional and I was like, oh, you know, if everyone could just read this and, and know ways to do better and, and to know. Because you had talked about how forewarned is not forearmed. You know, like we're forewarned. Like, oh, you know, it might be hard, you have this baby the first couple years, but you're like, you also have to have some skills in order to make it through some of these rockier times. So first of all, let's talk about something really unique about this particular book. So I've got, I didn't sign up for this. You also have you, your husband and his mother creating a healthy relationship with your mother in law and your spouse in five simple steps. But this book I didn't sign up for, this includes your own, like you're a therapist and you include your own things in the book, which I think is really rare. Can you talk about what led you to do that?

[B]

I remember so often having these conversations with other parents as I entered into motherhood. And I used to say I thought doing my PhD would be the hardest thing to ever do in my life. To sit in a room to research and write and talk about what? One thing only. And that was my research project. And then I became a mother. And I would be at the park around other parents, and I would be listening to parents talk about feeding schedules and nap times and, you know, all the things that we talk about. And inside, I would be seething and wondering, does anyone else hate their husband the way I do? Does anyone else resent them? And I'm thinking, here I am a couples therapist. I know all the skills and tools. I know what I need to do, and yet I leave my therapy room. And I know that I've been a human a lot longer than I've been a therapist. And I, too, know what it means to be standing in the shower crying, saying the very things that my clients kept repeatedly saying to me. I didn't sign up for this. This wasn't what I expected. And also then the shame that so many couples and mothers feel because it comes to this place of, am I the only one? What's wrong with me that we're not joyful, light, and happy like all of those Instagram couples that we're see? And so as I was writing these four, the first book reads almost like a fiction novel. A lot of people say they plow through it because they're like, what happens to Emily and Matt? I need to know.

[A]

And they get.

[B]

You know, they get right through the end. And I thought, when I'm exposing stories of real couples, how could I do that and not peel back the curtain into my own life? Because I don't want people to. And this is what we do with experts. We think, oh, they have it all together. Oh, Dr. Tracy, she, you know, she probably never gets critical and ang angry with her husband. And here I am. I'm a human with a nervous system that responds, that is also built on my own history of early childhood experiences as well.

[A]

Okay, so if you want insight into the therapist life, this is in here as well. We'll went into all the different stories, and actually, to be honest, Tracy, I had never really considered. This is so rude. I had never considered the point, the vantage point of a therapist where, like, I gave them an assignment, I gave them some homework to do. Hope it works, you know, and, like, sometimes it doesn't. Or. Or where you're like, sometimes people leave and you don't know if you're going to see them again. Are they going to come back next week? Are they going to come back in three months? You don't know if they're going to take your advice. I was like, oh, this is really intriguing to have a little bit of a viewpoint from your side of it. And then, like you said, you also share your own stories, but you use this word, duped. And I had read a book where it said it's biologically normal to fall in love, but it's not biologically normal to we're not wired necessarily to stay in love. And I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. You talk about we kind of can feel duped. The book is called I Didn't Sign up for this because you say un. So good. It's not funny. It's kind of funny. Unhealed wounds from childhood don't necessarily show up in the honeymoon stage. Instead, they are more likely to emerge once we're more settled into a relationship, catching us by surprise. So this is kind of what's happening, right? You're like, you're in this honeymoon stage and then you're like, oh, once you're settled in, you're like, this person isn't exactly who I thought they were, or.

[B]

This person is reflecting back to me parts of myself I have shut down and never owned. And I think of one of the stories in there. I do think how her husband was continuing to be playful and express what he wanted and do the things he wanted to do. And it was reflecting back to her this desire that she never allowed herself to have. And she had. She had a resentment. She talked about resentment, that feeling of, you know, this doesn't feel good. And underneath that, it was envy. Envy that he got to do those things and she didn't allow herself to show up. So it does, Ginny. It feels like we get duped because we think it's going to go one way. And then here we are in the depths of postpartum, waking up in the middle of the night and wondering how. How did we get here when. And for so many of us, we don't have the skills and tool. And that's really where the desire of this book came from is can you see what other couples look like? But also, can you actually then take on some of these skills and tools? Because we also think, well, you're no longer this person that I thought I was marrying, so I just need to move on. But if we Keep ending relationships, then we are repeating what we have not healed. I read and I love all of your notes. For people who are listening, Ginny has like a whole stack of notes from the book. Fantastic.

[A]

I read. Okay, I didn't say I read this thing in someone else's book and I didn't say it in that podcast because I was like, oh, this is like, this is really kind of abrasive in some ways. But this woman had written in her book like we were helicopter parenting. We over parent. You know, we're in this day of like safety, safety, this day and age of safety, safety. And she basically said like, if we really cared about the health and safety of kids, we would work harder on our marriages. And I was like, oh, you know. Because she was like, the statistics are pretty clear. Your kid is probably not going to be kidnapped, but you know, if you're not an abusive situation.

[B]

But the statistics are pretty high for divorce. Oh my goodness. You are just singing the language that I speak and what I live wholeheartedly. It's one of the reasons why I pressed publish on my first Instagram post in July 2018. Like, I remember after watching some news clip about couples and I was like, ugh, what is that? That's not what we're teaching. That's not evidence based. That's not what we need to be doing. Because every here's if you want a successful business, you create a business that's going to solve a problem for a parent. If they believe that their child will cry less will eat the tricky food that they refuse to eat. If. Right. Like that sells. Do you know how many sleep sacks I bought? I bought a lot of sleep sacks.

[A]

I bought, I bought a doll. Listen, we hardly had any money. I bought a do that. That would make a heartbeat sound. And I think it was like, I'm not kidding. I think it was like $70. Like we literally had money for groceries. And I was like, if I put this doll next to my child and it's playing a heartbeat sound, maybe she'll sleep in that. It didn't work.

[B]

Oh my goodness. But. But it's true though. It's that I want to solve this problem for my child and that I love that about parents today. And I can tell you for certainty that if there are two sale items, one is to be the parent you want to be and one is to improve your relationship. Guess what? Most people choose, and I think because they feel, and it's not true, they feel they have the most control over that. And we love Control. There's more certainty that comes from it. I feel like I have more impact on my children than when I go to my partner and I try this new communication tool, and then they don't even respond to me. And the most real thing that we need to sink into is when we model to our children what that cycle looks like. Connection, disconnection, and repair. Our children then grow into adults and go into the world knowing that they don't have to leave a relationship just because they feel disconnected.

[A]

Yeah, it's huge. It's huge.

[B]

It's huge. And also, too, the couples I'm most concerned about are the couples who tell me they don't fight. These are the couples who don't bring up their struggles, the ones who push down their desires, wishes, and needs. Because arguing, discussing conflict. Actually, I don't know if you saw this recently. I think Travis Kelsey was talking with George Clooney, and they both said that they've never had a fight. And I'm thinking, okay, so maybe you haven't had the, like, door slammed and something thrown and screaming at each other fight. But I know for certain that there are disagreements that happen with those couples because it's normal. Healthy couples have that. But you know what else? What else? Healthy couples have repair. They know how to come back closer together, and they do it sooner rather than waiting the weeks afterwards.

[A]

It's so good. And you're going to learn so much in here. Like, you have, like. Like you said, you follow through these different stories, including your own. And the stories are meant to mirror a lot of the clients that you've had in your therapy sessions over the years. Because you even said, like, if you are reading this and you're, you know, you come in for therapy and you see yourself in the story, this is not your story. It's that it's been repeated so many times. But then you also have all these sidebars about. I may have so many notes. This is the problem with having all these notes, Tracy. But the sidebars of, like, the Four Horsemen. And there was another one about. I'm going to find it later. I'll come back to it. But. But all these little sidebars of. I mean, it's just so many tools. The book has so, so many tools in it, as well as sort of reflecting back to you that these things are maybe a little bit more normal. You're not the only one.

[B]

And I think that's what I really wanted people to see in this book. I think it's something that we really, miss about couples. People are more today, more willing to talk about parenting struggles. There is more openness around mental health difficulties. Where do we continue to hold a lot of shame? It's the couple piece. You know, you're at the Christmas party or the next holiday event or the kids party, and everyone's talking about family vacations coming up, what sport activity, what summer camps. They're registered. What, what thing they're going to do next. But who's saying, you know, we got through this really rough patch.

[A]

Yeah. My husband thinks it's fine to make sausages for dinner. And that's all it is tricky. It is tricky because, like, you don't want to throw that person under the bus. That's a story from the book. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's really tricky. So can you talk about the. The sort of beginning. So we already talked about this sort of feeling of duped. And then all of a sudden, especially maybe when you bring a kid into the mix, then everyone's tired, everyone's stretched thin, everyone's dealing with things they weren't expecting. And so I think that can exacerbate maybe some of these found. So you talk about the word imbalance summed up in one word. You talk about imbalance now. This is your story. This is in your chapter. It's so hard. You say, I'm confronted with imbalance first thing in the morning when amid a flurry of diaper bag packing, baby bottle prep, and the anticipation of a thousand possible needs our son might have. While I am out, I watch my husband leave the house for work without a backward glance. The imbalance is on full display again when I'm rocking our son to sleep for the fourth time, Greg is out golfing with friends. My life has been radically changed by the weight of managing the household in our marriage. Meanwhile, Greg's life appears unchanged. It's so hard, and nobody really talks about it. You're definitely not prepared for it. Like you say, you might be forewarned, you might not even be forewarned, but you're certainly not. What was the word to use? You're certainly not forearmed.

[B]

I remember this couple and I sat with them and we. I had asked one simple question, I'd said, and the imbalance was really seeping through. They had two young kids, and I had said, tell me about the roles you watched your parents play. And that one question helped them realize that they were acting on autopilot from the world, roles that their parents took. So he was playing exactly like his father. And she was stepping into the role that she saw her mother. And so of course, we do that. Right. And also our socialization teaches us, you know, mom, you're the, you're the relational holder. You bring everyone together. You're the planner, you're the coordinator. You also are making all the doctor's appointments. And, and, and, and it's tricky because it, I think where we stumble is that a lot of us don't know what we don't know. And having children catapults you into this growth transition of, whoa, what is this? And so we don't have the tools or the language or the questions to ask each other and plan for this ahead of time until many couples end up in the spot. And similar to the one I was in is, how did this happen? How. How is it that I am planning all of these things? And I also give my husband a lot of compassion because he didn't know either. We both didn't know. And also, too Ginny, when we became parents, this was in 2015, the word mental load had not taken off yet. And I actually remember sitting in a client session, and this might have been after the birth of my second. And the. My client had said, oh, yes, the mental load. I thought, mental load. I haven't heard this yet. Which is interesting because parents today already know what the mental load is.

[A]

Yeah. So you say there's three parts to a task. And I think this is the part that you don't know what you don't know. The three parts to a tasks. Task are conceptual. Conceptual. I can't say the word. Conceptualization. Conceptualization, planning and executing. There's three parts. Tuesday. Women are far more at risk for developing resentment when they only offload the execution. Just tell me what you want to do and I'll do it. But there's actually so many more components than just the execution. How do you deal with that?

[B]

So this was Eve Rosky's book Fair Play, where she talks about the ec. The. The cpe. Conceptualization. Conceptualization, planning and execution. That word's going to trip us up today. And it was almost this, like, aha, moment of, oh, this is why things feel so heavy. Because. And I'll full. I will wholeheartedly sit in this. If you had seen me working with a couple in 2006, 2007, you would have seen me say, maybe we need to create a list and look at all of those tasks that you're doing. It makes sense. Create a list, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Instead of then seeing that actually each task has Three parts to it. And so if we think about soccer, we're registering my son in soccer. It was no problem for me to say to my husband, hey, okay, here's the link. Here's like this team, go register. And then he would take our son to soccer. And that very much is a visible task. And all of the other parents would be like, oh, your husband's so great. He's taking your son to soccer. And I'm at home just, oh, yes, he is. Isn't he great? And guess who text all of his friends, mom, guess who then did all the research of the other leagues. Guess who then looked at our schedule? And then also who had to look up cleats and fought all the things, right? And that was so heavy. And it's so much more than just the one small piece of taking the child there. We actually had a conversation with our kids. I think this was two summers ago. Because my husband does do more of the drop off and pick up for summer camp.

[A]

Camp.

[B]

And so my son, I'm tucking him into bed and he's like, daddy's so great. He picks us up and drops us off for summer camps. I'm like, oh, you know what, bud? Yes. Isn't that amazing that he gets to do that? It's such a gift that he gets to do that part. I love that. Okay. And then I say, well, who do you think registers you for those camps? I was like, oh, I don't know. Oh, I do. Oh, and did you know that me and your friend's parents, we all got together and planned which ones I was going to register you? So you had your friends there with you. Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

That.

[B]

And so it's this helping our children to understand what's involved in doing things so that when we. When they grow up, they understand tasks are not just the actual doing of the thing.

[A]

It's really good. Those are really good discussions to have because you reflect in this book, which I think is fairly common, and that's why it's in the book. These men that seem rather aloof, they're on their phone, they don't know what the family plan is for tomorrow. They pick to go golfing. Then they're like, why do you say that's this? It's not even that big of a deal. And, you know, they're just not plugged in. They're plugged into their phones and the kid falls and they don't even look up. And I just, I don't know. I felt that deeply like as a society, it does just feel like there and you're like, well, that person is an adult. Like the, like Matt. No, this is like a fictional person, but like based off. Based off of people that you've talked with. You say she confides. Doubt. This is Emily. She can fight. Why? Why can't he just do what I ask? First of all, so there's, there's like the execution part maybe is off as well. I have to do everything. I'm the CEO, the mother, the partner, the chef, the house cleaner, the organizer. If I ask him to do one simple thing, he should be able to do it, she confides. Doubt that Matt has it in him to be able to take responsibility for household and child care. Tax masks. He makes sausages for dinner the new year always feels like a reset for me. Not just for schedules and routines, but for our home too. I want our space to feel calm, functional and ready for the season ahead. Essentially the opposite of what it feels like over the holidays, with a stream of parties and gatherings, family visits that are fun and meaningful but also add to the craziness. And honestly, Wayfair makes that so easy. If you're refreshing bedding, upgrading towels, organizing kids rooms, or finally tackling storage, Wayfair really does help have everything in one place. I love being able to shop for practical things like mattresses, bathroom storage and kitchen essentials and add in those finishing touches that make a home feel cared for. This season I'm focusing on simple, cozy updates. We are refreshing bedding and adding a few accent pillows and mirrors to our living space. Nothing over the top, just pieces that feel warm, lived in and inviting. I was honestly surprised by how many styles and price points there were. It made it easy to stay on budget without sacrificing quality or style. And and I love how convenient it is to find everything from kids room updates to work, from home setup to storage solutions for all the outdoor gear that somehow always piles up, get organized, refreshed and back on track this new year. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home January always feels like a fresh start in our homeschool. It's that reset moment after the holidays where you're refining what worked, letting go of what didn't and finding your rhythm again. Oh, and also you actually know what day it is again as opposed to being in that holiday induced fog where time and space seem to just meld into nothing and everything all at once. One thing we've learned over the years is how important it is to meet each child exactly where they are. That's why IXL fits so naturally into our homeschool life. It adapts to each learner so one child can review last year's skills while another jumps ahead without pressure, comparison or busy work. I love how effortless it is as a parent. Everything is organized by grade and by top topic, so I'm not digging through resources or reinventing the wheel. And the real time feedback is huge. Kids learn from mistakes immediately and the progress reports give clarity and confidence. As a guide, IXL covers math, language arts, science and social studies from pre K all the way through 12th grade, and it grows right along with your child. It is flexible, proven and trusted by millions of families. Make an impact in your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20 off their IXL membership when they sign up today at www.ixl.com 1000hours Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Some weeks I just don't have the time or the brain space for real meal planning. I want to eat healthier. I care about what we're putting in our bodies, but by dinner time I am tired and overwhelmed. And that's where Hungry Root has been such a gift. Hungry Root is basically like having a personal nutrition coach and grocery shopper rolled into one on I told them what we like, what we don't like, and what my health goals are. And they planned everything for me. The recipes of which there are over 50,000, the groceries, all of it. And the more we use it, the smarter it gets, tailoring things even better to our tastes. I love that it makes healthy eating simple without overthinking it. Whether you're trying to eat cleaner, get more protein or reduce inflammation, Hungry Root does the work for you without junk ingredients and with high quality meats and seafood. And if you're trying to stick with healthier habits past January, which aren't we all, this really helps make it doable right now. Take advantage of this exclusive offer for a limited time get 40 off your first box, plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com 1000hours and use code 1000hours. That's hungryroot.com 1000hours code 1000hours to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice for Life. And I'm like, I have friends that have the same story. It's like, well, they needed the husband to make dinner and they made meat. You know, like, well, there was no sides. It's like, well, you had dinner for 32 years. Has anyone ever just served you meat? Like you've gone to a restaurant. Do they ever just give you steak or other sides? You know, so you're kind of like, well, how can they not know? It's frustrating to read.

[B]

Oh, it is. I'm glad you got frustrated because I know that's you're supposed to get frustrated.

[A]

You made sausage for dinner. And then his response, which I think is even, even, even makes it more maddening, is, well, I can't do anything right. You know, it's never good enough for you. At least I did something.

[B]

The, the. By the way, I, I narrated the book. I didn't get to use voices. You did a great mad voice there. I love it. So, so, hey, listen, this is the pattern. There's two common patterns that show up. I talk about lots of different cycles in the book, but one of the patterns is the over functioning, under functioning pattern that shows up in heterosexual relationships. And oftentimes it's women who are over functioning. And we can talk about things like weaponizing competence. We can talk about all of the things, but what ends up happening is two people create this dynamic together. And I remember doing it. I remember going to the pharmacy and seeing deodorant on sale and thinking, oh, gosh, I think my, my then boyfriend, I think, I think Greg's low on deodorant. I'll get some deodorant. Make sure he has some extra at my apartment. Right? So I was then the buyer and noticer of deodorant, and then it defaulted to me. I just took on that role. And so then he starts to under function. So the over functioner is the person who's the problem solver. They're the logistics manager. They do everything. And, and sometimes the thing that nips them in, like kind of get backfires. Backfires is the word I'm looking for. The one, the thing that back. The thing that backfires for them is they then take on all of this stuff and tell the story. It's just easier if I do it myself. And that's a tricky story.

[A]

And it is kind of because a hundred percent sausage.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you've got kids and you're like, well, that's not a dinner. I think that's the tricky part. It feels so much like toddler behavior. And I'm sure that it's not. And I'm sure that there's like all sorts of reasons why it feels like, well, gosh, if I break the dishes, my mom's not going to make me wash the dishes anymore. It kind of feels a little bit like that.

[B]

So the under functioner learns to not solve their issues. They learn to then just let the other person do it. They, they almost act like they don't know how to do the thing. They say, oh, you, you always know the solution, so you do it. And that's an infuriating cycle to get into because you're right, you are a grown adult. When's the only time that you have had just meat on your plate. And so this is a conversation together of how do you also take ownership and responsibility for the well being of our entire family? And that means that a nutritious meal, I don't. It doesn't matter if it's frozen broccoli or you put some salad there or you have a few cucumber slices, a whole meal looks like that. You don't get to default to doing part of this stuff. And it is a hard conversation because it requires us to have to communicate and to, to be able to hear something. And I want to come back to that part with Matt. Here's what a lot of men do. What they do is they hear their partner come to them and it's a complaint, it's an issue. They're hurt, there's a struggle, they're overwhelmed. It's something immediately they go into their own shame spiral and they go into this. It's almost my fault. I can never get it right. What's the point? You're always criticizing me right here. When men go to this place, they are breaking the connection with their partner. And if people could start seeing that, when your partner comes to you, whether it's about the sausages or it's about the diaper bag or whatever it is, they're coming to you because they want to problem solve with you. You matter to them. It's connection that they're looking for. So don't go into your inadequacy or helplessness. Go into understanding what their experiences is like in that moment so that you.

[A]

Can have their pair, so that you can salvage a relationship. And this is good for everyone. It's good for the kids, it's good for the family unit and it's good for you as couples. You wrote resentment is a toxic emotion that slowly erodes the health of Our relationships. It's also one of the most commonly expressed experiences I hear from women I work with. A complex emotion. Resentment is anchored in bitterness, rejection, lack of recognition, the feeling of being taken advantage of. So that might be the over functioning, under functioning and envy. It boils over from feelings of abandonment, boundary violations and unmet expectations. Resentment often stems from long standing unmet needs, which can happen if someone has expressed what they need need or their partner hasn't met their need or isn't capable of doing so. So you say the thing about resentment is when you keep trying to fix things, you are by your own choice doing something that contributes to your anger. There's a lot there. I was like, oh, there are a lot of things that can lead to resentment.

[B]

It's often, here's the thing about resentment. And we do this because it's an adaptive strategy. We look outwards. Well, if they changed, if they didn't just make sausages, if I didn't have to pack the diaper bag, then I wouldn't feel resentful and resentment. And I speak from this from a place of doing my own work, also the work with my clients. And this is a really hard thing for us to have to sit in. It often starts with ourselves. We have to do something different for ourselves. If you're a partner, if you're. Your husband does not give you 20 minutes when they get home, or whatever that looks like, you insist on it. You say, hey, I'm leaving. I'm taking my 20 minutes now. And then you go to them the next day and you say, I just want to let you know that every time you come home, I need those 20 minutes and I'm going to take them the next day. But if we wait for it, if we wait for a right time, it's never going to happen. I remember the moment something shifted for me and it was a. I was gonna say allowing, but that sounds strange. It was facilitating my husband taking my daughter. So my second to a doctor's appointment. And was it my second or my first? I think it was my second. And I. He had said, okay, what do I need for the diaper bag? And I said, I know you've got this. I trust you. You'll do great. And I left it. I didn't run around the house packing all the things. I didn't grab extra snacks. I didn't grab the extra shaky toys because, you know, well, you didn't even.

[A]

You didn't even tell him what should go in there. Nope. Not. Not only did you not get it? But you also gave no information.

[B]

Right. And so when he came back, he said, well, as usual, Dr. Was running late. Said, yeah. Oof, that's so hard. How'd you guys do? Whoa. I did not have enough snacks to get through that. Oh my gosh. I know. Isn't that the worst when that happens? And he's like, and I probably should have been packed a few things to keep us occupied. Yep. And, you know, she was fine and so was he, and he learned what to pack in the diaper bag, and I no longer had to keep doing it. And there's this uncomfortable truth in here. My daughter wasn't going to be harmed. She's not going to starve from not having enough snacks or all the things. They could have gone to a. A. M. A vending machine or something down the street. They. They would have been fine. But it's the opportunity for him to uplearn what I had already learned. Because that's the truth, Ginny. Right? We learn it along the way too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally. We learn it from doing it as well. Like, I mean, I would start to take when we were getting outside all the time, right. So, like when our kids were younger, I would even bring an extra pair of flip flops for every kid because often they would like break their shoe or their shoe gets stuck in the mud. We can't get it out, you know, so you, you learn in time. Like, oh, I wish I would have had this now. You know, Now I do. So the book is called I Didn't sign up for this. You also have the book, you, your husband and his mother. Great, fantastic books. Lots of tools to help. One of the things that is new. Ish. So obviously there's, you know, always been relationship issues. Easy to fall in love, biologically normal to fall in love. You know, a lot harder to. To keep it going are our phones and screens. And this comes up in the book several times. And in a way that is. It's like heart wrenching. It's like a knife to your heart. And you're like, you. You just picture yourself in that situation. You've been in that situation. You've seen other people be in that situation. She got the situation where Greg's watching television and you're like, ah, I'm wiping down the counter. We've got a toddler. I'm trying to finish up this meal and. And he's just oblivious. And you say, I need help. And he says, I am helping.

[B]

But.

[A]

How can you be helping? You know, so it's that. But it's the television sort of numbing out situation in the home. And it's also the phone situation, which is in and out of the home where you're kind of stuck, where you're like, are they, are they working? Are they not working? And I'm like, you know, how many times can you say what are you doing on your phone? What are you doing on your phone before you feel like you're the mom, you know, of like a 12 year old being like, what do you need to be doing that on your phone? Do you have to be checking the sports scores? Do they really matter? What if you check them after the game was over? Like, you know, know. I think this is something that's really hard in this day and age. And you talked about another story where it's like the kid fall. You know, you're at the park, you're there, but you're not together. You used a word, a phrase for that. Parallel play.

[B]

Parallel play.

[A]

Conscious uncoupling in different roommates who lead parallel lives.

[B]

Yeah, it's so I, where, where do I want to go with this? I have like a hundred different like things floating over me right here. I remember having someone who read the book say that their husband had read it and they got to the desire and intimacy piece in the book and then they pull the book down, look at their partner and they're like, oh, I get it. Oh, I actually get it now. And surprisingly, Ginny, I wrote this book as my main audience for women. Men were picking it up. They still are. They still send me messages. They come to me saying, okay, I get it, it, it's good. Because all of these micro moments lead her to feel unseen and disconnected. And if you are not paying attention, attention a lot. You know, we've got this negative connotation to the word attention. Because I think a lot of us who grew up in the 80s and 90s were told, don't be attention seeker and you don't want to get all this attention. And actually attention is a core need. Our children need attention. And even through adulthood we continue to need attention from those we love and care about. Attention is so important. And so if you walk into a room and your partner doesn't put down their phone and light up to see you, then it falls flat for you. You don't feel connection, you don't feel seen. But then they come to you later and say, hey, do you want to? And you're like, well, we didn't have any kind of connection throughout the day. So how do I feel close to you then? And it's about realizing that we are getting all of this short term term dopamine from our phones. It's easy, there's no discomfort from it. You don't like something, you leave a nasty comment or you swipe on. Right. That's, that feels good. Right. So it's easy, there's no discomfort and it's short acting because when we actually sit in discomfort and tension and vulnerability with our partners, that's the opportunity to feel something different. That's long lasting chemicals in your brain where you feel good. I can remember one couple I had said, listen, I know you guys have young kids. I want you to stay up late tonight and do a little bit of a date night. Doesn't have to be big, just something that's prioritizing each other. And they came back the next time and said, we were tired the next day, but it didn't matter because we felt connected. And that is gold. That is, that's what we want more of. But what we need to then understand is because we have this machine in our hands, we now have to create structure over that machine. What does it mean to have a no phone access time at a certain point in your, in your night?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it between 5 to 7? Are there rules where there's no devices at the table? I remember we had our television on our main floor. This was back in 2015, so phones were a little bit different. But then our toddler was, was watching the news as we would have it on in the background and we're like, oh no. So we then took it into another level of the house and now we don't have it on our main floor. And that allows us to not have background distraction or noise on. That's not really pulling for connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's, it's just this willingness to not blame each other. Because I know what comes up here is it's like you're always on your phone and then the other person's like, well, I wouldn't be on my phone so much if you weren't on yours. No, no, no. Know, let's just do it as a we. It's not you versus me, it's us against the problem. And the problem is we don't feel close. The problem is we no longer touch each other. Our phones are touched more than we touch each other. So how do we then put it in a box, leave it at the door and connect together?

[A]

I mean, I think you have to have a lot of these Boundaries built in because this is such a common problem. You wrote, Sunday is our only day together as a family and I feel a lot of pressure to make the most of it bit. Greg doesn't seem to feel that pressure though. He's sitting on a park bench staring intently at his phone. Instead of the warm fulfillment I hoped for from this family day at the park, I feel irritated by him being here because he is there but yet not truly present.

[B]

How many of us can relate to that experience that your partner is there with you but not present?

[A]

Yeah, these are like critical conversations to be having, but I think they're really hard to have. And I, I guess I think one of the things that I struggle with and I see. And you kind of see it through your, in your book is that it often feels like maybe there's a reason for this, but it often feels like it's like the, the woman who has to be like, all right, what are we going to be do about our phones? What you know, like who has to kind of bear the brunt of, of making the uncomfortable ask for change.

[B]

Not all, but many. And, and I, I will full like, I'll say that more women show up in my therapy room than men do. They do buy the self help books, they do download the apps that are going to do something different. They're going to join the programs. They want to feel something different. And it is incredibly challenging because it does ask the question, well, where's your partner? And I say to people, you have two choices. You can be resentful that you have to do this and I get that. And, or rather, or you can ask yourself what's meaningful to me? And when I put my head on my pillow at the end of the day, do I want to be able to say that I made meaningful choices today that are aligned with my values and with what truly matters. And if the answer is that, then read the book, do the program, initiate these things because you are also part of the change. And I, and hey, like I, I will sit with every woman and say, I hear you. I'm angry. It's not fair. I get it. I don't agree with it this and I can't change all of the systems, but I can support you right here. That's the only power I have. And you have choice to do that.

[A]

It's good. I mean you said in the book and I was like taken aback by it actually. You say it only takes one person to change a relationship dynamic. And I feel like everyone else says no, it takes Two to tango. And I was like, oh, no, that's really empowering. What is within your control in your relationship? Like you said earlier, when you get home, I'm going to take this. 20 minutes. Minutes and 20 minutes can do a lot for you if you've got little kids. 20 minutes feels like an eternity, doesn't it? You know, it's certain stages of life. It makes a huge difference. So what is within your control in the relationship? As we step into a new year and yes, take those first steps outside to kick it off. I always feel this pull to simplify, to reach for pieces that feel good, layer well and actually last. And that's why I've been loving quite Quince. Quince makes those wardrobe staples you reach for again and again. I'm talking about their Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the designer price. 100 silk tops and skirts that instantly dress things up. And denim that's cut just right for everyday life. Their Italian wool coats are a standout, too. Beautifully tailored, soft and made to last for years, not just one season. You can feel the quality in the details, the stitching, the fit, the fabric. Everything is thoughtfully designed to become a true wardrobe essential. I can't tell you how much I'm loving my new cashmere sweater sweater. It's getting so much wear already and it's holding up beautifully. I've even picked up a few Quince pieces for home and travel, and the quality has been just as impressive. And the best part, Quince uses premium materials from ethical, trusted factories and prices everything far below traditional luxury brands. Quince is a big hit around here and I know you'll love what they have to offer as well. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside okay, so another thing that you talk about is acknowledgment. So this is another tricky thing, I think that often changes with children. I mean, I felt like this, you know, I'm like you, especially if one spouse stops working, right? Because then like, well, no one's gonna pick you for employee of the month because you're not an employee. So you'd say Ashley, she says, who is telling me that I'm doing a good job. He's more interested in the football score on his phone. Ashley's frenzy of activity goes completely unnoticed. Acknowledgment. I've never heard anybody say this. Acknowledgment should be a basic part of our relationship. It's a relationship tips. Especially when we notice our partner making significant efforts or putting aside their needs for our own. I've never read that, and I don't think people are really doing.

[B]

Greg. Greg's my husband. Greg and I have even talked about this and how he at some point had to come to this aha moment and. And say to me, I'm so sorry. I didn't know that acknowledgement and recognition were a foundational piece in relationships. He's like, I know I've spent a long time not recognizing you, and I think I just took it for granted. I thought that it was just something that was inherent, implicit in our relationship. And we lose that from our early days, right the beginning of our relationship, we. We say, thank you so much for texting me or a special token of some sort, or the hug, saying, you know, this is such important time together. You know, I'm so glad we're in this together. That that is everything. And if you are in one of those seasons where you're thinking something of the listener, if you're in that season where it's like, everything is on me, I'm so resentful, and it feels hard to find something that you appreciate about your partner. You go into something really small but also specific. Thank you for being a safe person with our children. You know, that that's huge. Thank you for that glass of water. Or I know we're gonna get through this season together, and I'm so glad it's us doing it. Like, I want to do this with you and. And doing that repeatedly, multiple times a day. It's not fake, it's intentional. And it's allowing the other person to see your heart in a way, and also so that they know they're significant.

[A]

It would maybe help too, with, like, the CPE thing that was we brought up at the beginning. Conceptualize, plan, and execute. Because, like, I think the. The gist of the book and. And maybe the majority. That's not all, but the majority would be like, the woman who is home with kids or who is juggling career and kids and feels unseen. So it's like, oh, if someone would say, thanks for contacting all the soccer moms to figure out what team everyone. You know, thanks for figuring out what's going on with the snack. It just helps you to be able to see more what's actually going on. Okay, so that's good. Acknowledgment should be a basic part of.

[B]

I'll add something really tangible for listeners to do with this one, stat. Stack acknowledgement with something else. So if you are about to pick up your phone and text your partner, hey, do you. Are you doing pickup or am I. Or who's got lunches today? Before you go into the logistical request, first pause to express something that you appreciate about that person or that what they did that day. That's one idea. Or the other idea is as you pour coffee in the morning or as you're brushing your teeth, think of something that you do every single day, and then stack that with appreciation. Leave a note for your partner, a little sticky note, put it in their lunch, put in their wallet, on the bathroom mirror. Just something like that. Those are small, intentional pieces. And I talk a lot about the roommate stage and helping people get out of this roommate season feeling like two ships passing in the night. And it is about shifting out of this autopilot mode into intentionality.

[A]

Yeah, it's a really. A huge statement, Tracy. Acknowledgement should be a basic part of our relationships. Never heard anyone say it, never considered it. And it's. It's a really big deal. I think it's so easy to not acknowledge. And there's so many things because of the conceptualized plan execute. There's so many things that are going on every single day in house, household that we could be acknowledging. Okay, how about this one? This is another thing that can become tricky. We definitely experience this. So I stayed home with kids. My husband traveled for work. We eventually had to be like. I did. I was like, you cannot send me your food pictures from your work trip. I. I can't. I can't deal.

[B]

Like, you know, I'm laughing because I was in this group text yesterday where he sent a. A picture of the meal. He was away. Sorry.

[A]

It's so hard. I mean, I had. I was with a friend recently, and she's got young kids. And, like, the husband did that. And I was a kid. I don't. I mean, I don't think he should be sending that photo because you're home, you're basically dying. You know, you've got all these kids, all these needs. You've eaten nothing. You haven't drank anything. You're dehydrated, and then you have slept. Yeah. And then you get a picture of, like, the lobster, you know, the. The shrimp tower. I mean, they're at like, a fancy dinner. I mean, my husband would go to dinner sometimes at cost, like $4,000. That's probably an exaggeration, but it'll be like, there's 20 clients there and we got every single. Blah, blah. And then he's sending me pictures, and I was like, sorry, I can't see it.

[B]

The picture yesterday was a lobster eggs Benedict. So I just can't stop chuckling. But you said lobster. Because it's like. And here I am eating. Here's the perfect analogy. It wasn't my husband who sent the picture. Here I am, though, cuz here's the perfect snapshot of it eating the leftover crust of the grilled cheese from my kids. And I remember one of my fellow moms had said, like, why is it that that leftover grilled cheese crust tastes so good? Not moms. We don't need to eat that. Like, make the whole grilled cheese for yourself.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then here's the step further. Then they're complaining about it.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So you use the word infuriating. So you're like, oh. And then they're like, you know, so you're. They get to sleep in a hotel through the night. There's no babies waking up. There's no baby monitor. You know, they get all their meals paid for. They're with adults, they're on a plane, they get to watch the Delta movie, you know, and then they're like. Then they're complaining.

[B]

I should contextualize this for. For listeners. My husband had these once a year, all inclusive golf trips, and he really hated being away from the family. I would always be like, like, oh, my sympathy is so low for you. I have no empathy for you. And you're right. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. So, okay, can you give us a little bit of. I mean, I. I don't know if that's good advice or bad advice, but it did help for me to not see the meals.

[B]

Oh. You know, here's. Here's something where my husband and I differ on is I say, I don't need you to check in on me. The. The worst thing you can do is to send me a text saying, hi, love, how's everyone doing there? Because guess what? We're not doing great. I am surviving, like, never and never good. And I. I do not have capacity to tell you how things are going. So if you want to send. And this was a really interesting thing that we had to break open in our relationship, because why are they sending the message and are they considering? So why does Your husband send the photo food. Why is my husband saying, hey, how's everyone doing there? It's because they're struggling. Struggling with something inside themselves. But true connection in a relationship is first putting yourself in their space. How's my partner doing? And it would be so much more powerful if you sent your partner a text and said, love, I know you're in the thick of it. I want you to know I'm so glad that I can leave like this and know that you have the kids. And I also know this is hard for you, and I can't wait to get home and give you those, you know, two hours of pure, solo, quiet time. But just know I'm thinking of you. That right there is the most powerful thing your partner could do for you. We don't want to see your food.

[A]

Because it's infuriating. And, you know, because you're like, yeah, every. In every instance, you're eating at someone else's bit off chicken nugget. And that's what you had, you know? Yeah. So it is about, I think, being able to put yourself in someone else's position, which is what a lot of this is, is. Right. Like, if you're on your phone and you're at the park with your family, what is that like for everyone else? You know, if you make sausages for dinner, what does that experience like for everyone else? So I don't know. I guess it goes back to, like, the empathy piece in general. Empathy is down when.

[B]

When you have young children. That was a common thing that showed up in my community. A lot is. People would say, why do I have so much empathy for my kids? But I have nothing for my husband. And that's where we speak about expectations, because we expect our partner to just have it together. We expect our partner to level up to where we are, or we expect them to just know what we need. And it is about sometimes looking at our own expectations.

[A]

Yeah. You talk in the book about play, which is great. All right, we're heading into 2026. Maybe you're going to be outside. You can incorporate this into your relationship. Play is what keeps a relationship alive. It allows us to know different parts of each other, make new memories, rekindle intimacy that can get lost in the daily routine. With play, there is a renewed connection where evaluation and judgment are gone. However, this isn't easy for couples in distress, because having fun with a partner requires trust and ease. So just something to think about. You talk about bids for connection. I don't want to. I don't want to wrap up without talking about the mother in law story. So because you have a book about.

[B]

Mother in laws, it was almost like an Easter egg in my first book giving Lydia and Sam's story. Because Ginny, I think the really cool thing is I knew this was going to be my second book.

[A]

It's a lead in. You say men typically take longer than women to separate from their families, particularly their mothers. Can you talk about the first bath story?

[B]

The first bath story? Yes.

[A]

Do you know what I'm talking about?

[B]

The first bath story is where I had had an unplanned cesarean and I just want to pause and say that if there is any mother who feels like they did not have a real birth. Chokes me up a little bit knowing how far I sunk down after having an unplanned cesarean because I was the mom who planned completely for the unmedicated birth. And at 9cm my water broke and we found a bum. So my, my first was frank breach and in order for a safe delivery I chose chose for a cesarean. And I remember spending weeks in this shame spiral of I, my body duped me. How could I not know what kind of mother am I that I didn't even know that my child was upside down. I had to work through a lot of shame around that. So we were quite vulnerable after having this unexpected birth. And so my mother in law did come to stay with us for a few days. And I remember giving my son son his first bath. And as we were finishing up the bath I couldn't find the towel and my mother in law had it. And so she then picked up my son from the bath and I looked at my husband and he didn't say anything. And also too when I look back at that, I look back at this first time mom who had just had her world turned upside down. I didn't have a voice. How could I have had a voice after a traumatic surgery and birth Earth. And it took me a long time to even put that word to that. So that was the first bath where I looked over at my husband and he was a deer in the headlights and said nothing. And I felt so completely abandoned. And it was also the starting point to where I learned to set boundaries and I learned to vocalize my needs. Because this is what we do in families, Ginny. We are going to bump up against expectations and wishes. And healthy families can come through boundary setting by recognizing that anytime that someone expresses something, it is about finding a better way to relate to each other.

[A]

It's good. It's good so people can read about that. Here you're at the ending of the first bath. Felt literally stolen from my arms. Searching for words but coming up empty. I glanced over at my husband and begged him with my drop jaw and wide eyes to step in to ask his mother to pass our son back to me. Me instead, he looked across the dining room table with a deer in the headlights look. My eyes started to fill up as my mother in law could continue to coo in my son's ear. And you know, those are moments that you can't redo. There's a lot there. There's a lot there. Forewarned is not forearmed. So these are good things to be talking about, have conversations about at the beginning. I mean my midwife is pretty clear like no one really should be holding your baby much in those first three weeks. Like the baby, you should be naked in your bed with your baby on your chest so that everyone feels awkward and they're only going to come in and say hi to you for like 4 seconds and then they have to leave. She puts a sign on the door that's like you're allowed to be here for 15 minutes tops. If you want to stay longer then do chores. I mean it's basically like that and that for the first couple weeks. And so there, there's boundaries there. But like I didn't meet my midwife until kid number three and you know, people just don't know like you don't know what it's going to be like.

[B]

And, and, and everybody is showing up to this role for the first time. Yes, I have so much compassion also for my mother in law in that moment. This was her first grandson she had never grandparented alongside her son and daughter in law in this moment. Those are all learning points for all of us. And it really is such a cultural shift I think, which is really what naming my second book is all about. And giving voice to the painful stories that daughters in law for decades have experienced is that women are not seen for their own needs and respected for that, but instead they are made out to be the bad guys. They're scapegoated and they're seen as the problem to these old outdated family systems. And it is about recognizing a family system that's in play and then being able to stand firmly in your own vault because that's what's in my second book is my vault method, method and being able to then be a solid couple. Not to abandon family, not to exclude them, but to be a strong marriage because your kids need that from you. And then to be able to say this is what works best for us. And holy my word, Jenny, I have spent so many years advocating for mothers to create that postpartum experience in the way that they need it, to be a connected team to do it.

[A]

It.

[B]

Because I have heard story after story after story of a daughter in law wanting to have no visitors at the hospital. And then there is this huge uproar most times from mother in law or they wanted no visitors. And, and I actually think of this one story of this woman that I worked with and she had so much grief and also vitriol towards her daughter in law because this daughter in law wanted several weeks of just bonding with their new daughter. And this grandmother was so angry about it. And I had said to her, I said, listen, I know there's pain here. You had this desire and expectation of what it would mean to bond with your granddaughter. And I get it. And at the same time, your granddaughter is now six months, seven months old. And you have a choice. You can stay in your anger and hurt and you are only creating more separation and divide and not building a beautiful bond with that little girl. Or you carry your hurt with you but you don't let it direct you and you go and you bond and you go and you get to know your daughter in law for the person that she is and you go and you bond with that baby. But above all you respect those parents and that's how you include and create this family moving forward. It was hard and that's hard work and that for me, Jenny, I think there is no other book for daughters in law right now about how to deal with your in laws. And it's a complex system. And I also have seen so many couples come out of this in a much better way. We don't want to go to estrangement and no contact. We want families to stay connected.

[A]

Yeah, it's really good. And, and because like that the first three weeks, like that's what my midwife would suggest.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

The baby should be on the mom's chest for three weeks. She says you're in the first week you lay in the bed, the second week you sit in the bed and the third week you're allowed to move around the room and everybody serves you and brings you food and they come in and they see the baby, but they don't get in the baby's face. And that's what's healthy. And instead what we see is that the. You actually said it in your book. You said if you looked back at the pictures, you said something about, like, if you look back at the pictures of that time, what you see is everyone else holding your baby while you're saying, sitting in your room, you know, trying to recover from this major surgery. And that's not really what it's supposed to be. These are really big things. Forewarned is not forearmed. We have to at least be forewarned, though. Otherwise, I mean, you're. You're just thrown into such a hard spot. So both books can be so helpful. I want to read two last things. And then I got a final question for you. You wrote, time for themselves is what many of my clients need. That's huge. And then you had this quote from Glennon Doyle. You say, being human is filled with doing difficult and challenging things, and Glennon Doyle doing the hard things is exactly what we need to practice. We need to get uncomfortable as many times as we can. We need to speak up when everything inside us begs us to stay hidden. We need to take risks when it feels like no one will even notice. We need to ride the wave of discomfort or the urges that don't align with what is meaningful to us. Big shifts don't happen because we think about them. They happen when we take a step in a new direction. What a book, Tracy. It's called I Didn't Sign up for this. A couple's therapist shares real life stories of breaking patterns and finding joy in relationships, including her own. I mean, it's for couples, but, I mean, there's a lot in there that you could learn about relationships in general. Then you have the new one, which I'm reading behind you is you, your husband, and his mother. Fantastic tools and resources for any family. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Outside would be supporting my dad building his Shelby Cobra. And I have so many memories of being in the driveway, of sitting in the car when it was just the bot, like, without the body on it, of being a young passenger in it. It's. It's one of the best things. And then being at car races and things like that. So that's a font blonde building point. Yeah.

[A]

What an experience. Do you know no one's ever said that.

[B]

Yeah, I love that.

[A]

Really fairly unique what people say. No one has ever said that.

[B]

I love that. I mean, I was thinking of all the. The memories we have of swimming in the pool or eating beans from the garden or. But that one is such a core memory.

[A]

Ah, well, fantastic books. I'm so grateful that I read them. They're very, very helpful for me. Thank you so much for being here.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, Ginny. I have not actually had a podcast episode about. Only about my first book in probably a good year and a half. So I have chills because I'm like, what did I even write in that book? And I literally said to my husband two weeks ago, I said, you know, I think I should go back and listen to my first book again because I think there's some, like, banger quotes in there that I need to, like, pull back. So thank you. Like this. Oh, this was a gift.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Thank you, Jenny.

[A]

Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. If this episode stuck with you, would you share it with someone you care about? These conversations don't spread because of algorithms. They spread because someone thought, hey, you might need this and sent a link. And if you've never left a review for the show, I would love one. It doesn't have to be long. A sentence or two really does matter. I read them. They're super encouraging and they help the right people find this message. If you want a simple next step after today, grab the free 2026 tracker sheets at 1000hoursoutside.com trackers or join us in the 1000hours Outside app on iOS and Android to track your time outside and build momentum in a screen heavy world. And as you head out, you'll hear that song again. It's a Beautiful World by In paradise, featuring our daughters who also make music as two better friends. Go. Follow them if you want something happy playing in your kitchen. So glad you're here. Until next time. May you find extraordinary moments on ordinary paths. Get outside, open your eyes Feel that sunshine kissing your skin Throw your worries out to the wind Climb some trees Skin your knees Feel that grass on your feet again get out there and take it in.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

It'S a beautiful world Ain't nothing on the screen that's ever gonna be this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful world the new year brings.

[B]

New health goals and wealth goals.

[A]

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[B]

Could expose you to identity theft leading to lost funds.

[A]

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