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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 689: Play Is Disappearing So Here’s How to Bring It Back| Pat Rumbaugh, The Play Lady
00:53:36
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- [00:01]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
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- [01:19]
Ginny Urich
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And lucky for you, today, the play lady is here. Pat Rumbaugh, welcome.
- [01:30]
Pat Rumbaugh
Thank you. Oh, I'm delighted to be with you today, Ginny.
- [01:34]
Ginny Urich
I watched. You're so fun. I watched your TED Talk, one of your TED talks, and it was the one where at the end you hula hooped. You hula hooped. While you were talking, I was like, that's really impressive. So can you give us a little bit of your history? Like, how did you become the Play Lady?
- [01:51]
Pat Rumbaugh
Oh, I love being asked that question. So I was a physical education teacher and coach for many years, and I absolutely loved it. But I was seeing the decline in children going outside to play. And here I heard that Kaboom was naming cities a playful city USA. And this was back in 2009. So I founded a play committee. And one of the requirements to be named a Playful City USA was that you had to hold A play date. So I looked at our calendar, which I suggest folks do, and decided, let's hold it on this particular day at this playground, because our public works just down the street was holding touch a truck where you got to climb on vehicles. And the mayor, the recreation director were all supportive. And seven people came to this meeting. And so it was unanimous. Let's apply and let's hold a play day. On that day, nine years in a row, we were named a playful city until the program ended. But back to how I got my name. After the play day that was extremely successful, over 200 people came. There was a write up in our Takoma park newspaper that said a monthly newspaper. And on the front page was a photo of yours truly showing a little guy how to hit a ball over a net and a write up of the play date. And so right after that, I get this phone call. Are you Pat Rumbaugh? I said, yes, this is Pat Rumbaugh. He said, you're the play lady. And I laughed and I said, what? He said, yeah, you're the play lady. He said, the wife and I are moving. And she said, call the play lady and let's donate all this play equipment. They came over and, and it was tons of stuff. Jenny, like a lot of new and everything was in great condition and wouldn't give me his name or his email or his address. And I said, wait a minute. I was raised. You write someone a thank you note after something like that. And he looked at me and he pointed. Play lady, you know what I want you to do? Keep doing what you're doing. And here we are, 20, 26. And that was back in 2009. And we're still encouraging, inspiring people to play.
- [04:15]
Ginny Urich
I love it. Okay, so people want to host a playday. You offer two different playday handbooks.
- [04:21]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
Talk about those.
- [04:22]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes, I'd love to. So on our website, let's playamerica.org you, you go on there and you will type in playday handbook and you'll find out a little bit of information about them. But you receive them electronically, getting them together. It's $30 and it's fantastic. It tells you how to look at your calendar and when to plan one, how to find people for your play team, who to go after businesses, people, students, kids, because I don't know if you have where you live listeners, but many schools now require community service for teenagers for graduation. And this is, I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because kids tell me, wait a minute, I'm going To get community service for playing. I said yes. Now you are going to have to set up and invite people to play and clean up, but the handbooks tell you all of this and there's also a lot of blurbs and quotes in there from people, how they enjoyed it and what they did. And we have a dress up lady, we have a mud pie lady. Like you can give people fun nicknames. And if you know someone that already plays something like say someone's a great chess player or just enjoys it, plays cards or it's good at double Dutch or hopscotch, invite these people and they could lead that activity.
- [05:52]
Ginny Urich
Oh, great resources and what an amazing thing to do for your community. Especially like if you said like you had it nine years in a row. So it becomes this tradition, this way for people to come together and to build relationships. Can you talk about you? You're a physical education teacher in Washington for more than 25 years and you said, I saw the decline in kids going out to play. Talk about that change. What exactly did you see?
- [06:17]
Pat Rumbaugh
Well, I started teaching in 1981, dating myself and. And you know, there were obviously no cell phones then. Hardly anyone was even on the computer then. And anyway, wow.
- [06:31]
Ginny Urich
This is the date range of someone who can really attest to what they saw. 1981 into the 2000s then.
- [06:42]
Pat Rumbaugh
Correct.
- [06:42]
Ginny Urich
So you, you went over that century change and so you would have seen. Wow. I think that's a lot of wisdom that you have to share.
- [06:50]
Pat Rumbaugh
Oh, yep. You're a sweetheart. Well, I did see how what was happening was there was decline in this fun free play. Ginny, like you and I. Well, I know you're younger than me, but we would go out to play. Yeah. Or was outside. That's who you played with. And what was happening was you either were staying inside and not playing or you were maybe on a sports team or involved in something that you did six days a week, almost like a job. Now, believe me, if you were enjoying that, I'm okay with that. I don't want to say that that's a bad thing because that's not really a bad thing if you're loving what you're doing. But you are missing out on many things that we all that built who we are by going out to play with who was outside. You couldn't be a bully because no one wanted to play with you. You know, who wants to play with a bully? You want to play with people that were kind and that included everyone. And I was the person that loved to whoever was out there hey, you want to play? And we made up games, you know, pick up basketball sometimes was five against three because my younger sister got to be on my team. She's six years younger. And people like, can she even hit the basket? You know, but because you, you included people. And, and when we'd play like wiffle ball and we only had eight players, okay, you couldn't hit to right field, you could only hit to left or whatever. You know, we, we always, we always improvised. I, I remember one time cutting my knee because rocks were our basis. But you know, anyway, well, I mean.
- [08:35]
Ginny Urich
You'Re bringing up so many things that, that kids have lost. So you talked about you have to play with who's there. Like you're developing a flexibility. You talk about always improvising. You're having to adjust based off of the age. You know your little sister's gonna play basketball this time. Well, she's way younger, she's way smaller. How are we going to make the rules so that it works and so that it's still fun for everybody? So in the 80s, you know, I grew up in the 80s and the 90s and so tons of playing outside.
- [09:02]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
And nobody talked about it.
- [09:03]
Ginny Urich
It's just like what you did and it was the same thing. It's like who's, who's out in the neighborhood and there is serendipity in that. Like a little bit of surprise. You don't know what you're going to find. There's a lot of open ended joy, I think, in the anticipation of that. So did you start to kind of notice, you know, through your adult career? And when did you notice? Is it like starting in the 90s when there's more cable television options or this youth sports kind of picks up a little bit? Like when did you start to notice.
- [09:33]
Pat Rumbaugh
The dec. Well, that's interesting. So we, we have two children that are 37 and 40. And, and so they were, they were before smartphones, which was great. And they, they played outside, but they also had the luxury, I, I call, I'm calling it a luxury to be on sports teams. Early on, yours truly didn't get to be on a real team till high school. So they kind of had that combination and they graduated in High School in 04 and 06. So around that time there was starting to be more of a pivot and that pivot was that the kids were going to, children were going toward more what I call adult led act play activities. Instead of free choice, like we had Jenny to go out and play. They fortunately got A mix. I mean, we have a basketball hoop in our driveway and it's paved and so kids would play floor hockey or kick a soccer ball around or play pick up basketball. So it was nice. The kids and kids still come over. Well, people know that this is something that I say to listeners anywhere I go, you know, if you have a yard, if you have a hoop or can you paint a hopscotch board somewhere? The kids could we have one painted. Here's a picture on my card and it's out on the front of our driveway. And I just love when I look out the window, oh, someone's doing hopscotch. I remember my mother in law looking out the kitchen window and said, patty, kids are playing football in your backyard and makes us happy. Yeah, we love seeing that we have a seesaw in our front yard. But yes, so this change happened. And as this change happened, I started bulletin boards at School at 2011. I went on sabbatical. But I would say from 2005 on I was really starting to research play and find out about play. I was working on my first children's book, let's play at the Playground. Because I knew, I knew that if this in my gut this was happening and through the research I'm sure you know about many, many play nonprofits out there that are doing a variety of wonderful things from the National Institute of Play on that are trying to show us, I mean this is a fact that children are getting less play time and schools haven't helped. By the way, I absolutely love Hera Estroff Morano. Oh, I loved, I actually, I would love, I would love to be introduced to her because I, I took a lot of notes like you did. You took a lot.
- [12:42]
Ginny Urich
Her book.
- [12:43]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
Wow.
- [12:43]
Ginny Urich
Everyone should read it. A Nation of Whims.
- [12:45]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes.
- [12:46]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
That was such an honor to get a chance to talk with her.
- [12:48]
Ginny Urich
That was pretty recent and I was floored. She is prolific.
- [12:53]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
What a writer.
- [12:54]
Ginny Urich
She says we have placed upon our kids a violence of expectations today's parents that this is a new kind of child labor because they're not allowed all this time for free choice, child led play. It's really interesting, Pat, like the, the sort of these periods of 20 years. So if we went 1986 to 2006, which talking about your kids graduating around then, you know, 1986 would have been complete free play by the time 2006. You're saying it's kind of a mix because sports have changed things. There's a more television by 2006. But if we looked at 2006-20, I mean we're basically like at. And play is almost nothing. Almost nothing. Four to seven minutes a day. I mean that's almost nothing. So can you talk about and you talk about this a lot through your nonprofit let's Play America.org that there are so many benefits of play also. It's a vital part of the human experience. It helps to grow communities. Like there's so many things that we're missing out on with this swing from it being the main state of childhood, the main part in 1986-2026 where it's basically crumbled to almost nothing.
- [14:04]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes. What is happening is basically, you know, families are smaller. They're having one either no children or one to two children. And both parents are working with which, which is fine. But what they're doing is they're focusing most of their time when they're free doing something with their child. I understand they want to be with their child, but they're kind of missing the point that their child needs time alone or with other children and to choose what they want to play. In my let's play outside the second book, there are two pages filled with information along with the book and maybe you were going to get to that, Ginny, but I just want to really point out that they're vital for people to want to know that you need a child needs every day just like we do downtime. But that downtime is their time to choose. Do I want to play outside or in my playroom? Do I want to color? Do I want to paint? Do I want to just be with other children? You know, be off screens? Definitely off screens. No screens, you know, to have to have that if they have in an adult LED situation all day and especially if it's been a non play environment that they haven't had an opportunity to play. Oh, they, they're, they need that so bad. And you know, they need to be able to be around not just a four year old with another four year old, but a wide range of children. Because older children do you know what they gain from playing with younger children? They gain empathy. They realize, hey, they're young, they, they're not reading yet. So you know, I can't expect them to know their letters, you know, and then a younger child, they're, they're actually vocabulary improves. They learn from the younger, the older child, even if the child's only four or five years older, they learn from them. And it's a great way to have a mix where our grandchildren Live there in Charlottesville, Virginia. It's so wonderful. The street leads into a cul de sac, and so kids of all ages do go out and play. And nothing makes me happier than to see that. And below where they live, Ginny, is a creek and pass through the woods. Oh, yeah. And if you want to see happy children and happy adults, go for a hike or a walk along the creek. And when they want to stop and throw rocks in the water or play with the sand, why not, you know, like, get dirty? Who cares? I mean, there's nothing better than being in nature, being outside, getting that. It empowers you to be able to say, I want to play this, this, or you may not even say that. You just do it because that's what you want to do. And then, then when we come back and if there's kids riding their bikes or scooters, you know, they go and get theirs and we just kind of. We're kind of like flies on the wall. And I. And I don't mind being dumped if Granny's dumped. So what? You know, because. Because we know. We know they'll get it. We're getting. They're getting what they need and want. And really, really, every child needs this.
- [17:49]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
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- [18:55]
Ginny Urich
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- [19:01]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
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- [21:26]
Pat Rumbaugh
And how we can change this, how we can do this is we can let our, our schools know, we can let other parents know, we can let parents know to listen to your, to your show. Mom's out there. You know, Ginny, every week brings a new dynamic person that shares ways you can help your family and your children and, and that that's what we need.
- [21:50]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
Yeah.
- [21:51]
Ginny Urich
And you know, it's like having the little kids around, it really extends the playfulness for everyone all the way up through the grandparents, all the teens, you know, so there's the empathy and there's just a lot to be said about that multi age play, which doesn't happen with the youth sports usually. Those are very, you know, strict in their, you know, you have to turn in your birth certificate. Right. Were you born on the right day and are you in the right age group? So the picture books are really special. So there's two of them. They will be a great addition to your home. The first one you wrote is called let's Play at the Playground. And the second one is called let's play Outside. And I really hadn't thought about this too much, Pat, that there are not really kids books about just kids playing. And so it's just a reminder. It normalizes it. It inspires young kids to be like, oh yeah, this is what I should be doing instead of being on this screen. You know, I want to go do these things. And then maybe the kid bugs the parent a little bit more. And so can you talk about the history of that? Like had one of your kids said, there's no picture books of kids playing?
- [22:56]
Pat Rumbaugh
That's right. They were 5 and 3 and we were leaving story time at our library and son said, mom, why are there no books of real kids playing? And literally it was like a green light popped out in my head and said, oh, he's right. And my younger sister will even tell me that for years I would tell her, I have a book with photos and she's like, you are going to have a book with. I said yeah, whatever words what may have some words. And so I was very fortunate. I told the story to a principal where I taught. I taught at the upper school at Washington International School. I was very fortunate to be there. And at the lower school that they now call the primary I said, you know, would it be possible I could bring Daniel who has an incredible photographer, action photographer and he's also our co founder for Let Play America. And and so Daniel and I we got approved 100% approval to go and and take these photos. And I, I wanted simple at first and and you know it. I would say that this happens fairly often, Ginny. Someone will have a young child and and they tell me by the way Pat, my child loves your book. I mean just recently we over Thanksgiving and we were at our lib young woman mother was with her young one and she said after a while wait a minute, are you Pat Rumb. She said my daughter loves your book. And I oh thank you. And what I think is pre readers you know makes it empowers them again that they can relate to that girl sliding. I can slide that. That boy's climbing. I can climb, you know. And then the next book let's Play Outside we wanted to expand that which we got very fortunate. One great publisher, Starbright Books. I want to give a shout out to them. Yes. Which the book can be ordered numerous ways. Sadly with let's Play at the Playground that publisher has closed. So Ginny, if if you don't mind me saying listeners could could email me theplayladymail.com that's the easiest way and I mail it anywhere in the United States to them or I have mounted to Germany and France which I would do the postage might cost you a little bit more but and I would sign it. I love to write a message to children and families but yes. From our former children's librarian to Dr. Stuart Brown who has endorsed both books who is the founder of the National Institute for Play. I'm just so grateful. I have many ideas for the let's Play series. So if a publisher is listening out there though Storybright Books has been great. I just if someone out there says hey we really got to get more of these books out there, feel free to reach out to me. The other way people can reach out to us is@infoetsplayamerica.org yes, we would do that. We have helped around the world communities hold play days Change X if you don't know about change X they are a nonprofit that funds projects and they've funded a couple of our projects, actually. Ginny, do you know about storywalks?
- [26:39]
Ginny Urich
I do. We love story walks.
- [26:41]
Pat Rumbaugh
Oh, good.
- [26:42]
Ginny Urich
Oh, good, though for people who don't know about them or maybe they don't know that they're near them. Has someone done a story walk for let's play outside?
- [26:51]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes. So, so when I, about three, four years ago, learned about story walks, I said, we gotta have these at our September and our winter play day. And so we started doing that, and the first one we did was for let's play outside. Now. We, we did not come up with the idea a story walk. Ann Ferguson from Vermont was the one that came up with that idea. But the, the goal is to promote literacy and physical activity, which we all love. And so actually, this year coming up, just want to show your listeners is our 16th annual Midwinter Play Day, February 1st. If weather's nice, we, we expand outside. But, you know, but if it's 20 degrees and snowy, we're inside. But we'll, we'll be doing let's, let's play at the playground and, and I'll tell you a story walk. The, the signs could be 10ft away and you keep going down a hallway or they could be 30ft tall or more apart. We did let's play it outside at a beautiful park in a Neil bright town, Silver Spring, Maryland. And what totally made me so happy was one of the boys that was in the book. I had approval from every parent. I couldn't read the mother's email or phone number to let her know that the book had been published. Well, she saw the story walk and reached out to me. She told me she bought 10 books. I was like, oh, my gosh. She said, yeah, every family member got a book that her son was in. But it just. And many other people then contacted me about, you know, how do, how do I get to have a story walk? And you know all about that. But there are many ways that listeners out there can, can help. Start with their own family.
- [29:01]
Ginny Urich
Yeah.
- [29:02]
Pat Rumbaugh
Then, then their neighbors and their community and beyond. Help. Help people play. Start with a positive attitude and say, I'm going to put play on the front burner. Ask every family member, what would you like to do to go. But we're going to go outside, you know, this weekend. What if you had your choice? What would you do? You know, and if they say they want to play with their friends and just, you know, make mud pies, you know what? That's their Choice, because you're going to get your choice. Your choice might be that we're going to go to a new playground that we heard about or, or we might like in the fall. We love taking our grandchildren to an apple orchard and going on a hayride and all of that. And they still have a great time. But the adults chose that. Let the children have a say and let them have their time. Then start talking to your neighbors and say, hey, could we close a street to play? You know, maybe, yes. We've closed over 35 streets in 17 years from a couple of birthday parties there. We even have a video. We were very fortunate. I believe it was 2013. We closed the street and it was on a Sunday and we had a farmer's market going on. And a reporter from the Washington Post said, I heard you're going to close the street by the farmer's market. Can I come with? A reporter did a full page article on us, which was wonderful. And a week or two after that came out, I got a phone call from Voice of America. How do you do this? At that point we were, we were still mainly doing everything without asking for a dime. Once we became a non profit, yours truly is starting to learn that a non profit is a business. So listeners out there, if you think what let's Play America is doing, you know, there, there are ways to, to donate to us, we would appreciate it. But what we ended up, we ended up closing another street and this woman, June Soul from Voice of America came and she ended up doing a video that went around the world letting people know how we. It was only a minute, 10 seconds, but it was a lot of fun and seeing people of all ages play. So we continued to do this and you know, we get contacted from all different kinds of groups. Two years ago I was interviewed by Mattel, Ginny, they have done. Last year a play study came out and yes, Mattel is, has products that they give out. And so I said, well, hey, we're having these play days and events. And they said, we'll send you in kind gifts. So do you know what they're sending us for February 1st, our play day? 300 decks of Uno. And so if you come to our play day, you get to play the whole time, all these different activities and joined and watch the performances, participate, dance, whatever you choose. And then you get to go home with a new Bekavuno, which I think that's so fun because then the play continues. I just asked Mattel and actually there was. I'm going to be presenting at the U.S. play Coalition Conference. That's the 2026 U.S. play Coalition Conference in April. If anyone out there, especially mothers, if you are interested in getting away and want to hear about play, you can learn a lot at this conference. It's held in Bloomington, Indiana. Anyway, I'm going to be presenting there with a couple of play friends, but Mattel is considering giving gifts for every person that attends. So if you don't ask, you don't get. And so I'm learning to ask and for if you all right, mothers, fathers, listeners out there, if you really want to help your community play, go and talk to your city council, your mayor, business people, and then start gathering your group, gathering your play team. Look at the calendar, figure out a time that you and a place. Remember bathroom too. Always think wedding. Remember in a wedding it could rain, so you may need a backup. Maybe a pavilion if it's summertime or warmer weather. But you want a place that you do all this planning that you could still have plan B and have the playdate. Our backup is we hold our September Play day at our middle school, but 90% of the activities are outside. We want to be outside because it's great to play outside and then invite boy Scouts, girl scouts. If there is a pickleball person that wants to come and teach people pickleball, that's great. We know that's a growing activity for people all ages, not just adults, but kids are learning it as well.
- [34:40]
Ginny Urich
Yeah.
- [34:41]
Pat Rumbaugh
At the same time, if you don't have a puppet theater, either make one or get one. We have a wonderful young man who leads our puppet theater and David is just dynamic and I could go on and on.
- [34:58]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
January always feels like a fresh start in our homeschool. It's that reset moment after the holidays where you're refining what worked, letting go of what didn't, and finding your rhythm again. Oh, and also you actually know what day it is again, as opposed to being in that holiday induced fog where time and space seem to just meld into nothing and everything all at once. One thing we've learned over the years is how important it is to meet each child exactly where they are. That's why IXL fits so naturally into our homeschool life. It adapts to each learner so one child can review last year's skills while another jumps ahead without pressure, comparison or busy work. I love how effortless it is as a parent.
- [35:32]
Ginny Urich
Parent.
- [35:33]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
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- [36:16]
Pat Rumbaugh
One of our board members, Shawanda leads chicken dance and she puts on a chicken costume. She was known as the mud pie lady and then she shocked me one day and, and says, pat, I got a chicken costume. How about if I lead the chicken dance? And we love that. But yes. You want to bring fun to your community? Start a play committee. Begin holding an annual play day. And then when someone wants to close the street to play, help them out. As for equipment, you would be surprised. I would say at least half of our equipment over more has been given to us. We have seesaws, Jenny. And we have jump ropes and hula hoops. We have a giant Connect four. We have cornhole. We have giant chests, giant checkers. Oh, dress up clothes. Oh, that's something, you know, like especially my grandchildren absolutely love putting on dress up clothes. The little one, Samantha's two and a half and, and she puts on Batman. She goes, granny, I'm Batman. And Charlie loves all the, like Sonic and other figures, but they also love to just go outside and play. Which, which is what? You know, you start, start small, but dream big. And also let yourself go back to your childhood and ask this question. What did I love to play when I was a child?
- [37:55]
Ginny Urich
Yeah, yeah. So that you make sure that your kids and your grandkids get the same types of opportunities. So the books are adorable and they're very vibrant. It's like the whole saying of a picture speaks a thousand words. That's like full of life and vitality. Like, these kids are smiling, they're swinging, they're sliding, they're running. You know, they're on play equipment, but they're just playing in nature as well. They're playing in community, they're making friends. And so they're just beautiful books to add to your home. I think that the idea of closing the street to play is such a practical one. When we were kids, we love playing in the Street. I think every kid likes playing in the street because you're kind of not supposed to. So you go on the street and you're playing whatever, hockey or street hockey or whatever. But then, and then like car, you know, and then you got to move out. But if you are actually going to close this street, that helps you to connect with all your neighbors.
- [38:47]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
So you'd have to go to all.
- [38:48]
Ginny Urich
Your neighbors and say, hey, we're thinking on Saturday from 3 to 4 or 3 to 5 or whatever, you know, that we're going to try and close the street. Kids can be out playing, you know, would you be on board? You're going to meet all your neighbors and then it's a, it's like what Mike Lanza talks about, that playborn guy that then the kids are going to look out the window and they're going to see basically what's in your book. They're going to see actual kids that are outside playing. And that's the, the, that's the big change, right? In 1986 there were actual kids out playing. In 2006 there were less, but probably still some 20, 26. I think it's pretty rare to see kids, actual real life kids outside playing. So this practical idea to close the street to play is such a great way to start. So if you're starting with family, that would be your neighborhood connection. And then through that then you meet your neighbors, you meet like minded people and you can extend to the community. So you have a lot of resources that help that. It's interesting about Mattel. I would imagine that companies, and I don't know much about Mattel, but companies that are really focused on play, I would imagine to some degree have some sort of a concern because the kids are moving to screens younger and younger and also to like makeup and skin care, you know. So I, I told someone just recently I was talking to a fourth grader, what'd you get for Christmas? You know? And she said Barbies, but she was kind of embarrassed. And I almost think that Barbies are Mattel, but maybe not. I might be wrong. Do you know or no?
- [40:13]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yeah, Barbies are made by Mattel.
- [40:16]
Ginny Urich
Barbies are Mattel. Right? So she said Barbies, but she was a little embarrassed as a fourth grader and I was like, oh, I think Barbies are great. Like it's fun to play with dolls. And she said that all her classmates got stuff from Sephora, makeup, fourth graders, fourth graders. So I think it's important that Mattel is investing in play because it's getting squeezed out. So I love all of these resources that you offer and people can find out more at let's play America.org I'd love for you to talk about the coaching piece. So you come from a line of coaches. You are a coach, tennis coach of the year, coach. For a long time your dad was a coach, coached Joe Montana. So you got this legacy of coaches in your family. There's obviously, I would imagine from 1986 to 2026, been a huge change in youth sports. What recommendations do you give? Because I our kids do sports and they are fun. Our kids started a little later and it didn't really affect them. I don't think maybe it did. I don't know. It's hard to know. Then you're like, well, would my kid have been better? It's hard to know what to do. But do you have any advice for parents today who are trying to navigate the youth sports world?
- [41:25]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes. So one, a child under 10 really should not be involved, in my opinion, more than one at the most two adult led activities a week. And, and that's, that's outside of their school. So for example, say they want to try soccer and they're six years old, say, okay, that it is for it's going to be for eight weeks and you're going to have a practice and a, you know, and a game, which means every Saturday families got to get you one to that game. And you can't. They're six now. They may not understand or comprehend all that. And younger, I think is even is. Is there, there are kids that are interested younger than that. But I think they would benefit more from just playing and kicking the ball with neighbors and friends and family. That's my opinion. But by six, okay, let them try it. The thing is, they may not have a positive coach or some teammates that are not as nice or show good sportsmanship. On the other hand, they might have a really positive good time and that could continue for years. The thing is, you let them try it and if they don't care for it, they can always go back. Some kids will try a variety of different things and that's okay. But what you don't want to do is just because I played tennis, I am not going to make, make my children play though our daughter, who both kids played high school school sports and, and continued to play. But, and she wishes I would have pushed tennis on her when she was younger. And I'm like, you weren't interested that that's where it was, you know. But for parents out there, what, what you don't want to do is force and. And may make them play something they don't want to play. Now, being physically active is different. You know, saying, okay, if you don't want to play a sport, we could go to a playground and you can play, or, you know, you could ride your bikes, or we could go for a hike or a long walk. Something that you're going to be. You're going to be active in because you want to get them off the sofa, obviously off electronics and outside. Yeah. My master's is in coaching, in positive talk. I was actually coaching college tennis at the time, but primarily, most of my coaching was done in high school. Two thirds I coached soccer, basketball, and tennis, mostly tennis. And then a third of my coaching was volunteer. I actually did one year of baseball. But my, My son, who is actually. Our son's a baseball coach. Our son said, mom, he was. He was nine. Mom, you don't bring the outfielders to the pitcher's mound and talk to everyone. Well, one, they weren't that far out, Jenny. And, and two, I was going to include everyone. And anyway, so that was my. That was my only year of coaching baseball. But soccer, a week after I started teaching, I got. I got. Got pulled in by the principal, and he said, by the way, you're the girls soccer coach and you have a game in a week. And they didn't have jerseys. I used my first credit card to go buy jerseys, and I. I believe I got reimbursed. But anyhow, we. We did. We did very well because I learned a lot from the players, and I was only 22. I could run around with them just as much then, and that was great.
- [45:33]
Ginny Urich
I'm sure they loved having you.
- [45:34]
Pat Rumbaugh
Oh, thank your dad.
- [45:36]
Ginny Urich
And your dad was a coach. What a, What a legacy there. And I. It goes to show, like. And I've had a couple people come on to talk about youth sports. Like, if you are a coach, it's really important to be learning about things like the positive talk and what kind of an environment that you're creating that it's not super high pressure and that it really. The. The point is for growth and, and really for lifelong skills like tennis. My brother plays tennis. He's super good, you know, and he's like an adult. And he. And he plays, like, mixed doubles and he's got. He's in all these leagues and, like, it's wonderful as an adult, he does that. Now. My other brother plays baseball. Like, I think it's softball but you know, it's like an adult league, right?
- [46:13]
Podcast Sponsor/Host 1
It's coed.
- [46:14]
Ginny Urich
It's just for fun. I got a friend that plays on a women's soccer team as an adult. Like these really can provide lifelong enjoyable ways to move your body and also to build community. Volleyball, you know, you see like all summer long, you know, it's a sand volleyball. Nets are everywhere. If you live anywhere that's near like a beach or something like that. So as long as I think the kid is not turned off to can be a real positive. Now I've seen statistics, this being Kim John Payne talks about how 70, I think it's 70% of kids quit youth sports by age 13 because they're burnt out. So you just want to make sure that it's balanced so that they don't, that they don't quit because there can be such a lifelong joy there, you know, with all the people, like you said, a pink pickleball. And it's, it's helping people to build community and to stay active and to keep their mind sharp as well. I love to talk about one last topic that you talk about as far as play. You know, we've talked a ton about the benefits of play, multi play and different ideas and people can go to your website and find out so much more. But one of the things that you talk about and I think it's really important is that play provides a buffer for dealing with stress and adversity. You talked about your parents. You know, you went through this really hard time with your parents and health problems and you are able to turn to play or able to turn to getting outside as, as one part of the package of coping, one, one part of the one piece of the puzzle for, for coping through these really hard times. And so we all know that people go through really hard times in life and that our kids will too to, you know, maybe it won't be for a long time. Maybe it's like when they're in their later adulthood or something like that. But for them to have these things that they can draw from and to fall back on. So can you talk about that as a benefit of prioritizing play in our families and communities?
- [48:02]
Pat Rumbaugh
Absolutely. So for many years I, I wrote for playground professionals.com and if you went to our archives, I, I wrote an article, I can't remember what year exactly, but it was called the Gift of Play. And Jenny, one of the best things you can give someone you care about is playing something they want to play and playing it with them and enjoying it with them. Our son actually is very good poker player. And so we're all play poker together for fun.
- [48:40]
Ginny Urich
I love that you said that. I actually think that's, that's so important because, like, I have certain things I really like. I like this game called Azul, and my. One of our sons will always play that with me. I like this game. Our family calls it Peanut, but other people call it Nerds. But it's like solitaire, where you play it really fast on top of each other. Like, my husband hates it, but, like, some of my kids will play it with me. And it really is such a gift, Pat, when people are willing to play the game that you want to play.
- [49:06]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes. For. For years at an apartment building in Tacoma. And this is where I picked up so much from these brilliant people. Sadly, the two founders are gone. But it was called Intergenerational Games Night. And every Tuesday night I would go to Games Night. And, and one of the founders, Mary Feldman, was a former librarian, and she, she asked me, pat, you want to join in, in playing Scrabble? And I was just doing horrible. She goes, pat, are you okay? Are you tired? And I said, said mary, I'm having a good time. I'm just horrible at Scrabble. I've, I. Our daughter's been tested. She's dyslexic. I've never been tested, but I'm a horrible speller. And so I, but I had a good time because you know why Mary was having fun. And Mary, Mary, she's the one that organized Intergenerational Games Night. And she invited this gentleman, John Good, who loved to teach people games. And every once in a while, and he loved teaching people bridge. And he'd say, pat, we need a fourth in bridge. I said, well, I'll play. And, and you know, I'm not very. I don't know. I don't think I'm that good. I don't know bridge that well, but of course I would play. And then I, I loved playing with these super seniors. Rummy Q. Have you played that game?
- [50:34]
Ginny Urich
No.
- [50:35]
Pat Rumbaugh
You might want to pick that up for your family and, and listeners out there. Google, if I may say, only spend a little time on the, on the, on the computer. But look up the game called Kings in the corner. Two, three or four. It's ideal for four people. It's a card game. All you need is a deck of cards and, and, and really all you need to know is colors. It's like solitaire, where you go backwards. You put a king on the corner, a black king and then a red queen, et cetera. And you get seven cards, first one to go out. But I would play this with these seniors, and a couple of them have passed away now, but they would start telling a story. It would be like, it's your turn. We've been waiting five, five minutes. But you could. You could carry on a conversation and play the game, which I absolutely love. Sadly, Covid has made that games night doesn't happen that often, which. Which bums me out. But at. At our. At our events, which I also want to add something else that we do that listeners is an easy thing to do. An event that already goes on in your community. You can add play. The July 4th parade goes past my house. So do you know what we call it? Our picnic play and parade watch. So we bring out things to play, and some. Sometimes kids play while the parade's going on or people play beforehand or after. We join several events. Our police offer National Night out, and that's the first Tuesday in August, and that's a national event. So if that goes on in your community, you might want to reach out to your police department, say, hey, can I bring cornhole? Or can I bring board games? You know, or just can I bring sidewalk chalk? Bring a bin of sidewalk chalk. And if they close the street for National Night out or whatever, they. Wherever they hold, hold their. Their event. So they. Our police closes the street and we get invited and hundreds of people come out to play. I mean, the floor hockey gets crazy.
- [53:01]
Ginny Urich
Yeah.
- [53:01]
Pat Rumbaugh
You know, like, because kids. Kids don't get that opportunity to go out and play floor hockey like. Like we did growing up.
- [53:09]
Ginny Urich
You know, that's a great idea to. You know, even you had said earlier about the farmer's market kids, you know, you get a booth or, you know, you have. Kids are kind of bored sometimes anyways at those. So it. I like the. The name of intergenerational too. Intergenerational game night. It's just a reminder that we should be mixing our ages and doing intergenerational things. Because you said at the very beginning, several times, Pat, you said, this makes me happy. Nothing makes me happier than seeing these kids. And I do think that there is a. A communal loss when kids are indoors all the time. Like, it's a loss for them. Yeah. But it is also a loss for the community as a whole, because kids have a lot of vitality and they're cute and they're fun and they're funny and they have a lot of energy. And we should be intermixing the ages and spending time together. So I love that idea. And the, the youth should be spending time and gleaning wisdom. Like if the super seniors are sitting there telling a story during Kings in the Corner, that's good for a 17 year old to hear that. So all these things are important. They really, they benefit everyone. That's why play is such a win, win, win. It's like a win for all the ages and it's a win for so many parts of who we are as people. And you talk about that so much on your website. So this is such an honor to get this chance to talk with you. You got the two play day handbooks that people can check out. Let's play outside. Let's play at the playground people. People can email you if they want a copy of let's play at the Playground and I'll make sure I'll put your email in the show notes so people can get a hold of you and people can watch your TED Talk where you hula hoop, you got these cool colored pants on and you're, you're talking and you're hula hooping. It's like the greatest thing. I was so impressed. So it's an honor to meet you, Pat the play lady. We always end our show with the same question. And the question is, was a favorite memory from your child childhood that was outside?
- [55:02]
Pat Rumbaugh
Oh, I got it for you. So yours truly had this banana bike which a lot of my friends had and this would have been around 1968. And I lived in a town in western Pennsylvania called California. Pennsylvania, it was a college town. And we would ride our bikes around town and we were the California Pennsylvania is adjacent to the Monongahela River. And there would be a paved path where boats went down into the river and we would ride race as fast as we could on our bikes into the river. Of course we did this summertime. But yeah, it's a little bit of a daredevil but more risky play, you know. And fun, just plain fun.
- [55:53]
Ginny Urich
Yes. So memorable.
- [55:55]
Pat Rumbaugh
Yes. I, I can feel, I can feel that splash in that just. It's just so exciting. But one, one just very short thing that everyone will want to benefit, will benefit from is we have YouTube videos, we have a city TV that comes to our play days and does a Playday video. So there's several Playday videos as well that people could, could watch and you can find them on our website or you could, you could Google play days and, and find them. But Ginny, thank you. I look forward to continuing to listen to you and may we play together someday.
- [56:41]
Ginny Urich
Yes. Yes. I'm so glad we've connected. Thank you so much for being here.
- [56:45]
Pat Rumbaugh
Take care. Bye Bye. Keep playing.
- [56:50]
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