Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (3:01)

All right, here we go. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ert. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And this is the first for me, I think maybe the first ever. Ben, a reality TV star is here. Ben Higgins, welcome.

Ben Higgins (3:17)

Star is so funny. Hey, I'm happy to be here.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (3:21)

It is a thing I'm trying to think back. Like we, we watch Survivor. I've watched Bachelor in seasons past. We've got a bunch of kids now, so we hardly watch tv. We don't have time. But I have watched Bachelor before, and I'm just trying to think if I've ever talked to anyone else who's been on reality tv, and I don't think so. So, Ben, you are my first and only. So far. So tell us. I know I'm sure you're so sick of talking about it, but like, you just, your coworker said, hey, why don't you should try out? And you made a video. Send it in.

Ben Higgins (3:51)

I mean, that's pretty. I mean, you could definitely explain the process like that and that would be accurate. It's, there was a lot of behind the scenes to that where I had, you know, I just had my first job. I was working all the time trying to learn this job, not because I was like super good at my job, just because I wasn't good. So I had to work all the time to make up for it. And then I, I had just moved to Denver, Colorado, and I didn't really know anybody out here. And so at 25 years old, I lived a pretty robotic life. And I think one of my co co workers recognized that. And she said, hey, would you please go on this show that I love? You're like the perfect candidate. You need life mixed up a bit. You're not saying goodbye to a lot of things. If you go, you're not dating out here and it'd be cool if you dated somebody. And. And so I said, yeah, I would definitely do that and everything. She was saying was true. Like, I wanted life to get mixed up a bit and get it a little more exciting. Jenny, I've always had this idea that when I'm like an old, old man and I have grandkids that there'll be these like, moments in my life that they'll like, want to ask me about because they like are like excited about it or curious. And at that point, at 25, I really didn't have much and so, um, this was one of a, hopefully many things that maybe they'll be curious about when I'm, you know, older.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (5:17)

I think so. I definitely think so. And I do agree with you. I think a lot of people are not going to have stories passed down because they haven't done much. So now you have your own podcast. You talk about being semi famous, but really I think you're more on the famous end because you are on twice. So you get on, you're on the season where there's two people and then you end up coming back as the Bachelor. So what was that process like? I. Do you feel like if someone is only on once and then they get kicked out toward the beginning, they are not going to be even semi famous?

Ben Higgins (5:51)

Oh, yeah, I think that's very true. I think they would even say that for themselves if, if you're only. I mean, if you really get into that world, everybody's talking about screen time and as you become, you know, maybe you go on a spin off show or you go on the Traders or something like that, like you're really wanting screen time because that's how people get to know you better. It's how they'll recognize your face more, those kind of things. And so, yeah, having two seasons I think helped. Fame has always been a very uncomfortable thing for me. I've never like, I don't say I didn't like it. I think it feels great. It just was never good for me. And I just really believe that no, no one human is meant to be famous. And so I've had, I've always had a very weird relationship with fame or recog, like being recognized.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (6:44)

Okay, so. But now you are, or at least you say semi famous. Tell me about the co worker. Was she like a mom type?

Ben Higgins (6:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, she was a mom. She was our chief marketing officer. So she was, she was hip. She like understood how technology worked and how communication with the next generations worked. But for me, I think personally she was like a, a safer space in this new job that I didn't know anybody at because she had those mom qualities because those nurturing qualities.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (7:21)

Isn't it wild? Do you think, like, had she not pushed, you probably wouldn't have done it?

Ben Higgins (7:25)

Oh, I would have never thought about it. In fact, I remember there was a moment not many weeks before she told me about this where I'm not the smartest person in the world, and sometimes it takes me a bit to catch up on stuff. I remember sitting on a plane, and there was this guy that walked on. I was sitting next to a buddy of my buddy of mine, and my buddy goes, oh, my gosh. That's so and so from some reality television show. And that was the first time it really hit me. I wasn't a huge reality television fan, but it was the first time it hit me that normal, like, everyday people were the people that went on these shows. I didn't even think about that being an option in my life. There was never a childhood dream of, one day, I'll be the Bachelor. That was never, like, a thought until it was an option.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (8:16)

And then it changes the whole course of your life, changes everything. And now you're in Colorado, you're married to someone else, you have a kid. You are sitting in a home with no heat because you have no power.

Ben Higgins (8:26)

It's ridiculous.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (8:27)

And here you are, what a thing. Okay, so then what's the process when you don't make it on the Bachelorette?

Ben Higgins (8:34)

Mm.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (8:34)

Like, did you know that they were gonna pick you for the Bachelor?

Ben Higgins (8:38)

I guess I did. Soon after getting removed from the show. There were moments during the filming of the show of the Bachelorette that I was like, they really want me around. Like, how did you. Well, I was roommates with the person that ended up being with the. The. The Bachelorette, and so I'd have, like, a very close look at their relationship. And I was like, my relationship with her is nowhere close to what theirs is, yet she somehow keeps me around. And if that's. Is. That's. If that's the difference between, like, her choice and her third candidate, there's a massive gap here. She has to have better relationships with some other of these guys. And so as I brought it up to some of the producers and they were like, you know, they would always do this. Convincing me of, no, she's so into you. And I'm like, I'm not. I mean, I'm. Again, I'm not that smart, but I'm not that dumb. I. I see that she's not that into me, but they'd always want me around. They always wanted me Around. They always wanted me around. And then as soon as I was removed from the show, I was laying up in my hotel room in Ireland. And I remember just kind of processing this whole thing. I'm about to go back into the real world after about three months of being in this bubble, and I'm thinking about all that. And one of the lead producers from the show came up to my room, knocked on the door, and they sat me down. We talked for a bit. We had drink. And she said, hey, Ben, would you want to be our bachelor? And I was like, Honestly? I was like, yeah, like, of course. This is great. This is fun, you guys. I'm staying in nicer hotels I've ever stayed in. I'm eating better food, and I'm traveling the world. This is perfect. And you're telling me that, you know, you could find 30 people that'd be willing to come and try to date me. That'd be ideal. That makes life a lot easier. And so I kind of knew soon after that they were, you know, at least curious about it.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (10:35)

So this was how long of your life?

Ben Higgins (10:38)

Well, the bachelorette is about. Was about three months, give or take a few days, and then you have about a month and a half off, maybe a little bit more, and you kind of. I got announced as the bachelor, which then starts kind of a media circus where you're everywhere talking about your dreams, your hopes, you know, what you're into, not into. And then you start filming, and the filming for the. When you're the lead is over three months long. So all in, I would say it felt like eight months of my life at that time was dedicated to me being on the show.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (11:14)

What an interesting thing. So you, you know, you don't get picked for the final rose, but you get picked to be the bachelor, and that is a life changing thing. Then you wrote this book. It's called alone in plain sight. Came out right around Covid so you re released. And I love. I've never seen book before, Ben, where at the end there's an afterword, and you're like, it's been five years.

Ben Higgins (11:32)

Yeah, I know.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (11:34)

My life has changed a lot.

Intro/Outro Singer (11:36)

Yeah.

Ben Higgins (11:36)

Hello again. Yeah, it was such a bummer, Jenny.

Intro/Outro Singer (11:40)

I.

Ben Higgins (11:41)

It really was. When I wrote this book, you know, we kind of started on this path, but, you know, famous was such a weird thing because I was famous for no talent other than just dating people. And that in itself was a weird dynamic because my faith is very important to me. And I always kind of had this, you know, my foundation has always been in the community of people that share the same faith tradition as me, to kind of be held accountable by, to be celebrated with and all these things. And I go on the show and went on the show through a lot of prayer and through a lot of conversations with people that I trusted and felt really good about my decision to go on the show and then get off the show. And this community of people that I've loved and I've trusted for so long were also the ones that were, like, the most critical, because I went on a show where I dated 30 people at once, and how in the world is somebody of faith supposed to do that and do that well, and all these things. And I have arguments and justifications for why I did it. I've never regretted the decision to do it, but my point to this was fame was always interesting to me because I never. I've always felt like there's only one name that should be famous. And then I also felt like an outsider coming off the show. And I started writing this book kind of as this, like, love letter to a fan base who had been so supportive of me, but also let them know that, you know, they are not alone in their struggles and journeys. And this platform that was handed to me was a great opportunity to do that. And I worked on it and I worked on it, and I worked on it, and I pulled out memories and stories that, honestly, I had tried to forget. And then we have the release date. 4 months to release date, 5 months to release date. I'm so excited. And then the pandemic hits and everything that we had planned goes away. And I was bummed. I was really sad. It just felt so disconnected. Honestly, a book about connection, about community, felt so disconnected because you just kind of push it out there into the world and nobody's able to gather or talk about it. And so this re release was also. There's been probably some. Definitely the biggest things that ever happened in my life have happened since the book released, so I wanted to write about those. And then also it was a second chance at hopefully telling some stories, my own included, that would help the reader feel less alone.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (14:15)

Well, you had a hard. A hard, hard childhood, especially with your dad. And he has stage four Hodgkin's lymphoma, like, even before you were born. And so you're growing up with your. With your dad has got these health issues. You know, it's interesting what you said about fame, though. I. I was talking to someone about that recently, especially as it. As it relates to people of faith. And there's a verse that says, give honor to whom honor is due. And the person was kind of making the case for fame's not necessarily the right word, but like, honoring people who, I don't know, are living their life for Christ and who are writing books like yours alone in Plain Sight that are. That are shining back and leading people back to Jesus. So, you know, I think it's interesting when you have these opportunities and the Bible says the. The Lord plans your steps, so you have these opportunities, and you use them to point back to Jesus's work in your life. Okay, so tell us then, about. You had a couple big hiccups. First of all, you're dealing with a dad that's got these pretty significant health issues. And also, you're an athlete and you had a big injury. So can you talk about some of those big. Those bigger childhood moments? You write about them in your book?

Ben Higgins (15:25)

Yeah, definitely. So my dad, when I was a junior, had his first big heart episode, which they found out after that episode that he had heart disease that has, you know, a lot of his heart had died due to the chemo that he went through during his cancer treatments. And we didn't ever realize it. And that started a journey that still exists today. It's a consistent battle with, you know, his heart and his. His heart not working and him feeling, you know, low on energy or not being able to breathe or going in. You know, he just. About a month and a half ago, just had another surgery to fix a valve. And so he has all these. His heart's just a mess. It's been a mess. But as a junior, you kind of.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (16:10)

You.

Ben Higgins (16:10)

You've. At that point, I think you're just starting to wake up. At least I was, too. The problems and the pains of the world, you don't really realize it for so much of your life. They, you know, they're not focus points. But this was the first time where I really realized, oh, my gosh, like, my. The person that I love so dearly might not make it through this event. And what do I do with that? How do I process that? How do I step up in my own household? And. And how do I say goodbye to somebody I love so much? Well, right on the backs of that, I am playing in a football game, and I totally blow my knee out. Not just, like, tear everything. And sports had always been a huge focus in my life. I'm pretty tall. It was. I'm an only child, so it was a way for me to have my friendships, was to be around teammates, you know, relationships through that were very important to me. And so I. I blow my knee out, and I. And I knew pretty much on the field that night, hey, everything's about to change. But what happened was I. That started a journey of addiction because I was. I was sad that, you know, I. I was without identity. I was grieving this new reality with my dad. I was also grieving this new identity being a. Not an athlete, knowing that my dreams of, you know, playing in college were over. And. And so it did. I started getting prescribed painkillers for my knee, which started a very long process of addiction because it really, at the time, and I think it's this way for so many. It was one of the only things that was an immediate fix to feeling the pains that I was having. It was a numbing mechanism to just put me into a different universe to where those things that were right in front of me could be ignored. You know, why I was taking the medicine, you know, the prescription pills.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (18:13)

How did you work through that? Because you say, you know, and this is like any addiction, Rather than face my fears, I hid inside my addiction. But you didn't talk too much about getting to the other side of that.

Ben Higgins (18:24)

Yeah, you know, I. It was years. When I say years, this. This lasted most of them through college. And I started in college to, again, really question my faith. There's this idea, call me crazy, right, that if. If Jesus is real and we are called to love God, love others, and that. That is the motivation to give us the purpose at which we live our life. And if. If that calling comes from a God that is living and active in this world, I either need to take it very seriously or I can reject it and just move on to something different, move on to a life without that God. And that was kind of my prayer at the time, was, God, if you're real and you're there, I need you. If you're not, well, you're not. You're not listening to this anyways. And I'll, you know, realize it, recognize that at some point, I also had started to get into the stage of addiction where I was stealing from people that I knew had the medicine. You know, your prescription runs out. And so you have to find other avenues at which to get them, you know, to get the pills. I was a wrecking ball when it came to how I was handling my romantic relationships, my friendships, People became a means to an end for me to where I could get something out of them. And so after an encounter with somebody who was a close friend and knowing that I had made decisions to really hurt them. And I write about this in the book. I did something crazy and I was, I actually felt, felt this feeling like I felt like, oh my gosh, I've hurt this person who I care about and I don't love this moment. I don't love what I've done. I don't love who I've become. I remember I looked at myself in the mirror and I looked into my eyes in the mirror and I don't know if you've ever done that, but don't do it unless you kind of want to get freaked out a little bit. And I remember I said that same prayer. I said, God, if you are here and you are real, I need you. If not, I can't do this any longer. And all I can do, you know, I could go in for hours on what happened in those moments, but God showed up. I had what I believe is a interaction with the divine. And when somebody has an interaction with the divine, I'm 36 years old, I talk about Jesus a lot. I talk about all this stuff, you know, as much as I can. I've never met anybody that's had an interaction with the divine that it hasn't drastically changed their life. And that's what happened for me. It wasn't a necessarily like a cold turkey give up, but it was a lack of desire to continue to numb. I wanted to feel the things I needed to feel. I wanted to get in the dirt, I wanted to, you know, wrestle with God. It was more of a calling to step up in it's time. And that moved me into a place of no longer desiring to numb myself by the medications that I was stealing, finding, buying, etc, what a life change.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (21:47)

What a life change. And then you become almost famous. So wow. Yeah, what a path.

Ben Higgins (21:54)

Then I date people for, for on television. So it all works out in the end, right?

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (21:59)

Good. I mean, and good thing because you know that's not going to work out with numbing your pain. I mean, you have to be able to deal with all of that. So you can see how it's like God, God is setting you up for what's to come. You talked about feeling like an outsider and this is a big of this book. It's called Alone in Plain Sight, Searching for Connection. You talk about stories from childhood and then in college you talk about like, okay, you like sports but you had this injury so you're rooming with a sports people.

Ben Higgins (22:26)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (22:27)

And they're on the teams and you're like out with them a lot. And people be like, oh, I know you.

Ben Higgins (22:31)

Oh.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (22:31)

And then they would be like, who are you? Yeah, but that's changed.

Ben Higgins (22:36)

It has. In fact, I think my longevity is outlasted some of them.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (22:42)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (22:42)

So you talk about being an outsider and I think that's something that's really relatable for a lot of people. And so that's definitely something that you will find in the book. You know, this is a book about human connection. So can you talk about then? Okay, then there's this issue because it doesn't work out with. I didn't watch the season, so I don't totally know all the details. But you proposed to this Lauren and then it doesn't work out, which that seems like that's somewhat common. And then people are up in arms about it because, you know, they're emotionally invested. But when you meet your now wife Jessica, and now you guys have a kid, which is so exciting, you're in the process of saving breast milk because the power now is Operation Save the Breast Milk. But you meet Jessica and you talk about how it was kind of difficult because you'd had all these elaborate dates that were paid for by whatever TV show, like whatever the. I don't know what. Which one is it?

Ben Higgins (23:37)

Fox, Disney.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (23:40)

Disney does Bachelor.

Ben Higgins (23:41)

Yeah. They own abc.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (23:43)

Okay. Oh, yeah. So that's elaborate. So Disney's doing that and they're paying for all those things and then you have to just kind of date regular. Can you talk about how that goes?

Ben Higgins (23:53)

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's been not that long, maybe a year and a half. When I met my now wife.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (24:02)

And she knew.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (24:03)

She already knew who you were.

Ben Higgins (24:05)

No, when I messaged her on social media. There's a wild story to this. When I messaged her on social media because my buddies from the show were like, you got to start DMing people on Instagram. It's the only way you're going to meet people. And I kind of started to believe them because I wasn't. I'm not a big, like, go outer. I love, you know, going out with my buddies and watching a football game and whatever. But it's really hard to convince me to stay up past 11 o' clock at night ever. Like, it's hard to convince me to stay up past 10 o' clock at night, quite honestly. And it has been that way for a long time. So I just wasn't meeting people. And they're like, you need to start messaging Girls. And I was like, okay, well, long story short, I saw Jessica's picture. She was just, I say this with love. She was just a normal human selling commercial lighting in Nashville, Tennessee. She had no following, nobody knew, you know, of her. And I just found her beautiful. And she had this like, really cool way of, I guess, captioning her pictures. They were funny and they were sweet and she loved Jesus. And I was like, okay, this is good. This is. This is better than what I. I'm tempted to try to date. She's a lot better than that. And so I messaged her, she responded. And the way she explains it now was she didn't know who I was, but I had a blue check mark. So my message went to the top of her Instagram messages at the time. So she saw it at least, and she was at her house or her parents house. And she asked her mom, she said, mom, I recognize this guy's name, this Ben Higgins. And her mom goes, oh, he was the Bachelor. Her mom loves the show. Jessica's never watched it. And her mom tells me that when Jessica was home from work one night, she, her mom was watching the show. And Jessica walks through the room and sits down for a second and starts watching my season on tv. And her mom said she only remembers this because it's so out of character for my now wife was Jessica said, oh, I would date that guy, and got up and left. And her mom said she never forgot it because that was so uncommon for her to say those kind of things. And so it was weird, I think, because you have this. I think the hardest part is, and still to this day, I was just talking to Lauren, the girl I ended up with, from the show's husband, about this. If you Google her name or if you Google my name, pictures of the two of us still are the things that come up together. Pictures of my wife and I aren't the first things that come up. And that's hard. You know, it's weird. It's uncomfortable. Sometimes we're watching ABC at night and a commercial of like a flashback of the Bachelor happens. And it shows me, you know, kissing somebody. And my wife has to see that that's not really something as a wife that you prepared to have to like, witness is your, you know, your partner, your spouse, you know, kissing somebody else. This is not healthy. And so there's been hurdles that we've had to like, get over emotionally. And that was really hard at the beginning. I don't know if it'd be as hard today. I Think. I think with a baby and, you know, four years of marriage, we're kind of locked in.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (27:08)

It's so interesting, though, because really, truly, everyone brings baggage into their marriage, and yours is just more, like, known to all. Yeah, like, everybody knows it. Everybody has it. But more. But normally it's invisible, and yours is just shown for the world to see.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (27:28)

So you.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (27:28)

I mean, you talked about how it was the most googled breakup story of the entire year.

Ben Higgins (27:32)

Yeah, that's always a fun, like, plaque I still have somewhere is that I was given a certificate that said I was one of the most googled things, and it was just for a breakup. You're so right. I mean, I. I do think, to my benefit, and I explained this to her parents early on in a joking way, was at least, you know, my, like, skeletons. Like, at least I'm not in here. Like, I can't deceive you. They've done background checks on me. You've watched how I interact on national television with people. Like, yeah, at least you know who I am. In fact, you know too much of who I am, and I hope that becomes a benefit for you and for her. So, yes, I. I do agree. Everybody brings it in. At least mine was displayed on national television so that everybody knew.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (28:21)

Everybody knew. So I think one of the coolest things about this book and what you share Alone in Plain Sight, is how you have used your journey, and you've used it to really bless other people and to share their stories. So you told other people's stories in this book. You talk about Annie, who has since passed away. You talk about Brandon and how he became a paraplegic in the blink of an eye. You talk about Avery, who spent his end of high school in a hospital room in isolation because of a syndrome that he had. And then you also share the story with Riley about starting Generous, your generous international coffee company. So I thought it was a really cool way to use a book just to. To include other people's stories. Can you talk about how when that started, like, was it right off the bat or toward the end when all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm famous enough that I can go do hospital visits and really brighten someone's day. I can text someone who watches the show and really change things for them. Was that more toward the end, or did it start kind of right off at the beginning?

Ben Higgins (29:25)

You know, this all was. There's a little bit of a switch side. So when I was a teenager, I went to Central America for the first time. With a group of my buddies and our hearts were broken to try to find sustainable, empowering ways to alleviate poverty or alleviate the lack of things in this world. Lack of water, lack of schooling, lack of jobs, lack of infrastructure. And so when I was young, this was my focus. Like this is what my, my friends and I would get fired up about. We would go to honduras as like 18 year old kids and cause havoc and do stupid stuff and also try to do some good while we were doing it. And so this was always a passion. I went on the show, I got off the show and the host at the time, Chris Harrison, sat me down one night and he goes, hey, Ben, use this to enhance the life you've already had, not change your life completely.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (30:23)

That's good advice. That's good advice.

Ben Higgins (30:26)

It was great advice. And so it helped me refocus and say, okay, what do I do with this now platform? How do I, what do I want to build with this? Like, this is such a gift that was handed to me and given to me. What can I do with this? You know, 15 minutes of fame and, and so we started to really communicate about some of the things that we've always cared about. Now in the midst of that as well, a lot of my life through church or through honestly living in Denver not knowing anybody, I was running into some really interesting characters, some people that were fascinating. And the cool part about as you get older is people probably annoy you more because you're older and you, you know, have dealt with a lot of different people. You also realize that everybody has a story. And when you take the time to actually listen to their story, people have fascinating ways and very interesting ways of how they've gotten to where they're at now. The Bachelor did bring me the opportunity to meet new people like Annie. As you mentioned, Annie was a fan of the show and asked for a video as she was kind of in her last few weeks. And I, the story was explained to me and I immediate was like, I just can't send a video to a 20, you know, something year old girl who's passing away. I want to actually talk to her if I can. And so she gave me like an hour and a half of her life towards the end of her life where I just got to ask her questions about what it is she's learned in 25 years. What does it feel like to know that death is at the doorstep? Even though it is for so many of us and all of us, really, what lessons would you teach somebody? It's a Really, a sidebar would be. Her dad recently reached back out to me and we were just talking after a few years of not talking, and he said, hey, Ben, when somebody asks me about my daughter, I hand them their. Your book and tell them to read your book. And I was like this. That's the biggest compliment somebody could ever give me. Like, what a. What a special. A special memory for me. So.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (32:40)

And.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (32:40)

And what a cool thing, though, for. For them, because it's something that's concrete.

Ben Higgins (32:45)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (32:46)

And normally when someone passes, you know, you have all these memories with them, and you may have some pictures and things, but there's not anything that's very concrete. I would have never thought of that.

Ben Higgins (32:55)

It's beaut. I mean, it was. It's just beautiful. And.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (32:58)

Yeah.

Ben Higgins (32:58)

And so, you know, my story is. Is what is one that I think there's. There's victory in. There's resilience that comes from my personal story, but my story is not all encompassing. There's people that would never relate with the life that I've lived and the things that I've done. And so my hope was, when Alone in Plain Sight was written, was that I would be able to tell other people's stories as well. So that, as I said, anybody that reads it at some point during the book could be reading about Brandon or Avery or Annie or myself, and they would say, my goodness, I feel that way also. I've been through something similar to this. Maybe not the same thing, but similar. And as a result of reading this, I recognize that my pains and my struggles do not isolate me. In fact, they bring me into a larger circle that actually makes me a part of a community. And I feel less alone after reading this book. That was my hope. And I knew I couldn't do that on my own. I knew I had to bring in friends to also fill some of the gaps that I couldn't fill.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (34:06)

Yeah, yeah, you talk about Annie. You wrote, Annie taught me I cannot let my struggles define me. I'm more than my problem. You are, too. Her attitude in the face of death just blew me away. Life is short. Why do we waste it on things that don't matter? Brandon's got a story about being an athlete and then having an injury, a skiing injury, actually, in Breckenridge. And the miracle there that he lost so much blood, but there was a doctor who happened to be skiing right behind him. And so you talk in that one about where self pity gives way to gratitude and how in time he gets to the spot where his Life really had not changed much. You know, he's like, I'm still doing what I would have been doing, still going to the gym, still hanging out, friends. And then you talk about Avery. So then this is a little bit of a separate story then, where you're talking about Riley and. But you did talk about a woman from Honduras who had four children at age 22.

Ben Higgins (35:01)

Yeah, it's not uncommon in Honduras, but that story was one. You know, I think there's still moments today. Like, some of the best moments, the most exciting moments are for me, is when I learned something different or new. And when I was in Honduras, we were trying to figure out, okay, how do we, as people from the US Actually help people in Honduras? And not in a way of going down and telling them what they need and what they want and what they should have and what they should be dreaming of, but getting behind them as brothers and sisters and saying, okay, how do we do this together? Right. We have some. Some skills and resources available in the US that you don't have in Honduras, but you have some insight, skills and resources in Honduras that we don't have in the US Together, I think we can make a big difference. And so one of the first ways that you could definitely make a difference is clean water. When somebody's lacking clean water, life's hard.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (35:59)

Yeah.

Ben Higgins (35:59)

And so we put in a clean water tank with their help. They. The people in this community actually help pay for it, and they now 100% sustain it. And it's been years now, but we. I was sitting next to one of my friends down there, the lady you mentioned, who was 22 years old, had four kids at the time. And I just asked her, hey, in the six months that you've had clean water, what's been the biggest difference that you've. That you've seen? And she starts weeping. And when somebody cries, like, usually you're also crying because just, I don't know, it feels better. And so we're sitting there and she's weeping. She's been. In 22 years of my life, I've never woken up a day without diarrhea in the last six months. I don't have diarrhea. And she goes, I know my kids now won't wake up with a leaky stool, and I know they won't have the same stomachaches that I've had. And it hit me, while she's saying this, even is this crazy idea that somebody for 22 years of their life has worked in the hardest, you know, hardest and hottest conditions with very little pay, gone home and been a mother to four kids, help feed them, bathe them, every. Everything that moms do and have done it with stomach aches. She's done that her whole life. And just something as simple as like a $20,000 water tank will change the trajectory of not only her life, but her kid's life. And that rocked my world to say, okay, there are some things that we can actually do to help. Like there are some ways that we can come down here and help and not hurt, you know, the situation. And that's one of those moments where at, you know, I was younger then, but where I learned and my eyes were open to, I think not only it brought to life the word of God for me, it also brought to life a purpose and a mission that I could do for the rest of my life that would give me value, purpose, and also help others in the process.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (38:07)

So these are earlier adult experiences. And when you get into this spot where Chris Harrison says, enhance the life you already have, you already have these dreams inside and then you're able to help. I mean, it's. I think it's an incredible story. Give honor to whom honor is due. You know, you took what the Lord gave you and you're using it to serve people. How does it connect to generous coffee?

Ben Higgins (38:30)

So the same organization I was just talking about, we were young and all of our friends that we were fundraising through and with here in the US nobody had any money, including us. People think you go on the Bachelor and all of a sudden you, you're super rich. That, let me tell you, that is not true. Or at least it wasn't true in my case. I might have negotiated a bad contract.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (38:53)

That's what I would do. I'm like so bad at business. What in the world?

Ben Higgins (38:57)

What is happening? And so anyways, we had this idea that, hey, what if we started a for profit business? We got a bunch of people that we know who had either made it early in life or had retired with a significant amount of wealth to invest into this business, knowing that they're never going to get paid back on it. And all of us would agree to work for free. And so all the people that own the business would work for free. So we would sell a product and be able to donate our profits to nonprofits like ours and ours that have a hard time fundraising. You know, they're small and scale, but they're doing great work and they just need a little boost and they need some sustainable source of money and maybe we could do that through a business. And so we started brainstorming this and through some meetings and conversations, coffee was the product that we fell into because we wanted something that brought people around the table. All of us have been really passionate about tables and about sharing meals with people and sitting with people and breaking bread with people. And there's really two things that bring people around a table that can be widely consumed and also shipped, and that's alcohol and coffee. And I wasn't about to enter into the, the, the liquor space. That's a really hard business. But coffee was something that we could do. It's an amazing story. From, you know, source to cup is something absolutely incredible and oftentimes full of injustice in itself. And so we thought, okay, what if we started selling coffee telling a different story than what other people are telling and then donating 100 of our profits back to these non profits. And eight years later, that's still what we're doing. Generous coffee is still moving and grooving. It's still my main focus. It's obviously not how I get paid, so there's other things I have to do, like the podcast and some other little projects to keep food on our table. But it is my main focus. It's what, when I'm done with this, I'm going to sit down on my computer and figure out what kind of coffee problems I got to deal with today. But it's been this life giving experience of being able to sell this product that so many people drink, telling a story through it, and helping organizations in the process.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (41:24)

All right, so people can check that out.

Ben Higgins (41:26)

I mean, yeah, Generous coffee dot com, please go buy it.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (41:28)

Yes, absolutely. Buy it for your friends. So you have this very normal story at the beginning. You're writing software manuals. It's probably one of the most boring sounding things ever.

Ben Higgins (41:43)

Isn't it weird that I talk for a living now and I was in the basement in a cubicle not able to talk to anybody? At the beginning of this ride, life changes.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (41:53)

Writing software manuals. You said that when they put your name on the screen it would say Ben Higgins, software salesman.

Ben Higgins (41:59)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (41:59)

Which sounds a little.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (42:00)

That's like a little bit of a.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (42:01)

Step up than writing software manuals. But you're in this is really plain, everyday existence. Right. Jessica similar, you know, like you said, she's doing commercial lighting. And then you hit this pinnacle and not only are you on the Bachelorette, but then you become the Bachelor. Is there a struggle to grasp at significance once that season is over?

Ben Higgins (42:22)

Yeah, I Mean, I think it's. It's a struggle to grasp. Well, I don't. I think you don't want that fleeting moment to go away. As you mentioned, this is. I. I think I've. I've always had a weird relationship with people that are critical of the Bachelor, and I understand why. Goodness. I'm not here to defend the Bachelor by any means. I'm here to defend people's individual life choices that bring them to the space that they're at and believing that God is within all those. But, like, I've always been really proud of that decision to say yes and to take a leap and step into something so unfamiliar and so uncomfortable. But you get off the show, and you don't want that fleeting moment to go away. My prayer was, God, if this is not meant for me, close one of the doors. Tell my. My. Have my friends tell me no. My parents tell me no. My work tell me no. And all of them said, go. And so I always believe there was some purpose to it. Maybe not a big purpose, but some purpose to it. And so I get off the show, and it's hard to process just how many people love that show. 12 million people watch that show. That was back then. That's wild. And you could run into some gas station in Oklahoma in the middle of nowhere, and the person behind the counter could be like, hey, you're Ben from the Bachelor. And you'd be like, yes, that's wild that you know who I am. It really started to feel like I had friends everywhere. It still kind of feels like that today, so. Yeah, but it's hard to grasp. It's still hard to understand. Still. Moments where I'm in the grocery store with Jess and walking down an aisle, and somebody says, ben. And I turn around, I'm like, ooh, I should know you. I don't know you. They're like, I'm a fan of the show. And I'm like, okay, that makes more sense. That still happens. And that's weird, and it's awesome, and it's, you know, expanded my life.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (44:11)

Yeah, it's expanded your life, and it will expand your life for your children, too. So it's such a catch 22. I think sometimes that, like you said, it's. In some circles, it's controversial, but from your stance, you're like, I followed God's path, and I'm using it for God's glory. But I. I could see. I mean, you know, there was a whole period of time where you could never become famous if you Weren't already on that path.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (44:35)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (44:36)

And then, you know, it just seems like such a random thing. You're like a software writer.

Ben Higgins (44:42)

User manual writer. Is that cool? Yeah. It wasn't like a great line for, like, first dates either. It's like, what do you do? And I'm like, right. User manuals. I'm really cool, though. I promise.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (44:55)

But God has provided because that job's priority been taken over by AI.

Ben Higgins (44:59)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (45:00)

Yeah. So this is good. All right. Are you from Michigan? Because you have a whole thing in there about the Mackinac Bridge.

Ben Higgins (45:05)

Oh, no, I'm from Indiana. Northern Indiana. So Michigan is like our, you know, our big sister. Little sister.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (45:10)

Yeah. Okay. I loved it. There was like a whole section in there on the Mackinac Bridge talking about building a bridge through your pain can be just as well. I mean, that's a whole section about building a bridge through your pain. How. How much do you even remember the book? Because you said it's been five years since it came out, and then you wrote the afterword. Is. Was it hard, like, now if you go. I could imagine. Even people that I talk to that have a book that just came out, they're like, oh, I wrote it 18 months ago. And sometimes they'll be like, I don't even remember what you're talking about.

Ben Higgins (45:39)

That happens.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (45:40)

So if you're going on like a second media blitz because it's been re. Released, is it tricky to remember it?

Ben Higgins (45:46)

Yeah. Oh, goodness, yes. But I had. I. I reread it when I did the additional chapters and notes, and so. And that's been. I completed that probably six months ago. So it's been within the last 12 months that I've reread the book. There's. But if we were doing a blitz, obviously all these stories are ones that I've had either personal connection with or a deep connection with. I can. You might have to remind me. I might be like, explain again what I wrote about. And then I'd be like, oh, yeah, okay. But most of it at this point is very fresh in my mind just because it's been within the last year that I've read it.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (46:30)

Talk to us about your podcast.

Ben Higgins (46:33)

So I host a show for iHeartRadio. It's hilarious. It is about pop culture. And I know nothing about pop culture. I have never known anything about pop culture. But I have an amazing co host who knows everything about pop culture. And I. Since I. We've done it for. Going on 11 years now with iHeart. It's crazy, crazy.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (46:53)

That's like an early adopter.

Ben Higgins (46:55)

Oh, we were, we were the first iHeart podcast. We used to call three way call with iHeart on our telephones. Myself, my co host and iHeart would call, they would record our phone conversations and those were our first podcasts. Absolutely ridiculous. So crazy. It's 11 years later. I think it works because of the dynamic where I've always been the out of touch, like dad, and she's educated me on why somebody's dating who and who they're dating. It's very bachelor focused and bachelor spin off focused. But it is, it's wild when I think about it. It has been one of the biggest blessings because I spend about. It's a little more today than it used to be, but it's about five to six hours a week on the podcast and it pays me like a full time job after 11 years. And so as a result, all that other time, I'm able to work for generous for free and still do it with like full energy and full capabilities because I have this job that really has less than part time hours that pays me full time amounts. And so it's a gift. It is the coolest thing. It is a hundred percent. Now I look back, I'm like, goodness, Jesus, like you had some wild ideas. I, I don't know what you were thinking up there. If you're like, okay, this guy needs a little help. We're going to send him on the Bachelor. The Bachelor is going to lead into this. He's going to start talking about people dating and, and then at the same time, he's going to have a coffee company that gives 100 of his profits back and it's gonna work. I, I never could have thought of that. So it's pretty fun. I, I've enjoyed it.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (48:33)

Yeah. You talk about starting your life feeling like you're the odd man out and here you've got all these things going on. All right, so you're, you've been a dad for just a few months.

Ben Higgins (48:41)

Well, it's been, Yeah. I mean, it's almost 11 months now.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (48:44)

Which is 11 months.

Ben Higgins (48:46)

Yeah, it kind of hurts. I, I like, I love the season we're at. I'm like, could you be 10 months old forever?

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (48:52)

Oh, age one is my favorite age.

Ben Higgins (48:55)

Oh, really?

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (48:56)

It is my favorite. And it goes so fast. But that's when they, you know, they're really walking, they're really talking. It took all the new stuff. Eleven months in, we have. I, I'm like in my grandma era.

Ben Higgins (49:07)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (49:08)

Because I Have a friend, one of my closest friends. She just had her first grandkid. I was like, this is so cool. So her daughter's name? Mallory. Mallory just had a baby. What advice do you have for the new dads out there?

Ben Higgins (49:19)

Oh, geez. Are you there?

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (49:22)

I'm here.

Ben Higgins (49:23)

Sorry I dropped you. The new dads out there. Okay, I would say slow down, take some deep breaths. 1. It is. It is scary, and it should be scary, and it should be wild and. But. But it's nothing you can't overcome. It's been nothing but a joy. We've. We've been able to figure it out along the way. We're better 11 months in than we are one weekend. And I got a dog. And because of the. The power outage, he's home with me today.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (50:00)

Yeah.

Ben Higgins (50:02)

And I would say just be where your feet are. Is. Honestly, my advice at this point would be be present in the moments that you get to have, because these moments are so special. And it flies by, and everybody says it, but it does. And it's. It's sad at times because, like I said, At 10 months old, I'm like, goodness, I want you to stay this way forever. She's starting to mock us, which is hilarious. She's starting to laugh at us. She knows sign language, and so she's communicating with us. But I don't want to wish. I guess my point is I don't want to wish these moments away because they're so unique and so special and so innocent and so pure, and we've loved every second.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (50:46)

It's good advice. Be where your feet are. Slow down. Ben Higgins, the only reality TV star that has ever been on the 1000 Hours Outside podcast, the only software sale, the only software manual writer that has ever been on our podcast. The book is called Alone in Plain Sight. Searching for Connection. You talk about helping the reader feel less alone. Your desire has always been to create space in this disorienting, chaotic, defeating and the lonely world, and to be a light shining in the darkness. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

Ben Higgins (51:20)

Favorite memory from my childhood that was outside. I would say it. My grandpa had this pond that was stocked full of fish, and he would take me out there with my dad and we would fish. And I remember one day I got the biggest bass I still think I've ever caught. And I remember the. The pride that my grandpa, my dad, had in me catching that fish. And I'll never forget that moment of feeling like I did something super cool.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (51:47)

I love it.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (51:48)

I love it.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (51:48)

Ben, huge congrats on all your success and thank you. What an incredible thing that you're using it to give honor to God and that your story is so powerful and continuing to impact so many. Thanks so much for being here.

Ben Higgins (52:00)

Hey, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Podcast Host (Jenny Ert) (52:03)

As we come to the end of today's episode, I want to leave you with a few simple invitations. If you want a zero cost way to support the show, first consider sharing this episode with friends. Text it to someone who loves a Bachelor and to someone who wants nothing to do with reality TV but would still deeply connect with this message. Tap Share in your podcast app and send it off. Second, make sure you're following the podcast. I've got a stack of incredible episodes coming and I want them to show up for you automatically when they launch. Click the Follow button on Spotify and Apple. Third, if you never left a review, would you do it today? It takes just a minute and it helps more than you think. Go to the show page, tap five stars and write a sentence or two. This one came in a few days ago from KS Bridget. Thank you Ginny for your amazing show. I listen multiple times a week and at this point you feel like a friend as I listen while driving or getting chores done. I love the intentional and meaningful content that you provide. My to be read list is stacked with books you've recommended and as you head out, let the music play. It's a Beautiful World by In paradise featuring our daughters from Two Better Friends. It opens and ends the show for a reason. It has become our anthem. Ain't nothing on a screen that's ever gonna beat this view. Thanks for choosing to hang out with me today. Until next time, may you find extraordinary moments on or ordinary paths.

Intro/Outro Singer (53:13)

Get outside, open your eyes Feel that sunshine kissing your skin Throw your worries.

Ben Higgins (53:20)

Out to the wind Climb some trees, skin your knees Feel that grass on.

Intro/Outro Singer (53:28)

Your feet again get out there and take it in. Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on the screen that's ever going to be this view oh.

Ben Higgins (53:49)

It'S a beautiful world.

Intro/Outro Singer (53:53)

And I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful world.

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