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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 710: More Than Marriage | Chelsea Damon, I Thought This Would Make Me Happy
00:52:21
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At the UPS store, we know being.
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A small business owner means holiday time is still go time, still get those orders, ship time, and still re up on stamps and supplies time.
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That's why this upcoming holiday, while others.
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Close up shop will be open and.
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Happy to help you keep being unstoppable.
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Come into your local store today.
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Most locations are independently owned.
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Products, services, pricing and hours of operation may vary.
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See center for details. The UPS Store Be unstoppable.
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Unstoppable.
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Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Y. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and we're going to be talking about marriage and family and parenting today with Chelsea Damon. Welcome.
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A
Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here.
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B
You had a book that came out this week. It is called I thought this would make me happy. How to fight Less, forgive faster and cultivate joy in your marriage is a beautiful cover and I read it and loved it. Huge congrats.
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A
Thank you. I'm super excited with what they did with the COVID Like, I just feel like it just like captures like my personality and just the essence of what I wanted the book to be. We have a lot of gardening themes in the book, so they did all the florals on there. So I was super excited with how that turned out. And it feels like a big milestone actually getting to, you know, the launch week. And I'm super proud of it. And all the help at Zondervan that they've been giving me.
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B
Yeah, yeah. It's an awesome book and really important, important for this day and age, helping couples to have more unity and to work things out.
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C
You're the author of Together with Christ.
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Which is a dating couples devotional. 52 devotions and Bible studies to nurture your relationship. Author at you've got chelseademon.com your website where moms and wives are encouraged in their relationships and. Okay, so this is an interesting thing. I always wonder the different paths that we take in life. Right. The things that we specialize in on. And so you have this devotional that's for dating couples. And now you have this book that came out for marriage. How did you end up with that being your focus?
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A
Yeah, honestly, it kind of came about so randomly. So in college I studied teaching English as a second language, which is absolutely not what I do today. My husband and I got married our junior years of college and at the time he was finishing up his degree and working full time and I was working full time. We ended up getting pregnant with our son about six months after we got married. So that was a little surprise. And when our son David would go to bed, I just felt like I, I needed some kind of outlet. I was so busy taking care of him and working, I needed to do something creative. And so I started this blog and I was super embarrassed by it. I thought all my friends and family would think like, who does she think she is? Like having something to say to people. So I kept it on the DL for a while, probably like a year or so. And I wrote about anything and everything, like the weird recip I was trying or like my workouts. And I wrote on marriage and family because that was like very front and center in my mind in those early days. And I ended up getting a lot of positive feedback wherever I would share it, like on Facebook groups or Pinterest on my articles for marriage and family. And I realized that it was something that I was really passionate writing about. So I kind of honed in on that and started educating myself more on it and writing more on it. And it's kind of bloomed into what it is today. I wrote the first book together with Christ in 2018, kind of in encouraging young couples who have that vision of marriage in the future and helping them to create that strong foundation. And then the book that I just came out with, I thought this would make me happy, is for couples who are a little bit further down the road and are finding themselves struggling a little bit in their marriage. And so it's to kind of encourage, encourage them and help them find that common ground that where they can come together and start to reunify.
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B
I love it, I love it. It's so cool. Teaching English as a second language. And here you are, two time author and I love that our past, you know, we just can't ever know what's interesting. And some of the things that you've talked about in this book and even just now that you brought up is that a lot of times we have a plan for how our life is, our lives are going to go. And so you talked about you've had some of these unexpected things like you got pregnant unexpectedly, you're still in school, you're at that spot where you're not, you're in school so you're not, you're not making the income. I mean it's really tricky. So you have that, you've done a lot of foster care, respite care. And also you had a time you talk about in this book. I thought this would make me happy. Where you ended up swapping roles. So Josh was working, and you were at home raising kids, and then you had to swap, and. And then further down the road, then you end up losing that job. So all of these different ups and downs, those are the things I think that can sometimes really pull us apart.
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C
How?
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A
Yeah.
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B
What advice would you give for families? And I would imagine a lot of families are in this boat where something unexpected has happened and there's a big change. How do you navigate those types of things?
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A
Yeah, honestly, I think those hard times have really been what has made our marriage as strong as it is today. It's kind of like exercising. You have to, like, rip the muscle a little bit first before it's able to build up stronger. And, you know, it's crazy. If you asked us, you know, we just celebrated 11 years married, and if you asked us 11 years ago, or if you told us what our lives would look like today, we would think you're crazy and have no idea how we would even get to that point. But, yeah, it's been a long road. You know, Josh and I, we kind of had that traditional structure where he was working and I was at home with the kids for a while. And then we decided that we were going to pack up and move in with his parents in Washington for a little while, just to save up for our first home and pay down my student loans. And the plan was he was going to find a job out there, and I was going to continue, like, my mommy blogging and stay home with the kids. And I was super excited about that plan. We were going to pay off our debt, get a home of our own for the first time, and several months go by, and we find that it's actually a lot harder for him to find a job than we anticipated. And so I said, okay, you know what? Just. I'll find something temporarily, and I'll see what I can get in marketing based on the experience that I've, like, learned with my blogging. And so a few months go by, and I do find a job at this tiny little startup. There's about 10 of us, and I was the first remote employee. So it was like a New York company, but I was working in the Seattle area, and. And I was able to, like, between my blog and that job, I was able to support our family. And eventually I got some other jobs, ended up paying better where I didn't have to, like, supplement so much with my blogging. And it was a much more stable income than a company of 10 people. But we Realized that with that income I was able to provide all of our needs. We did end up paying down most of my student loans. We saved up for our first home. We were able to. It took a lot longer than we thought it was going to. We thought we were going to be with his parents for six months to a year. It ended up being close to three years and then we finally bought it a lot longer. But it was actually really great experience for the kids to be able to have that time with their grandparents. So we kind of cherish those years, but we bought our home here. Trying to think, oh yeah, I lost where I was going with that. But anyway, it was a big swap. And it was actually very hard for me to accept the fact that this was actually the best thing for our family where my husband was able to be with the kids. And that meant that I was working. And for a while I had a decent amount of bitterness and resentment. Grew up because I thought that my role as a stay at home mom was kind of taken away from me and I had to learn to really deal with that. And I talk about my faith a lot in the book and I realized that I had to surrender that over to God and realize that, you know, this might not have been what I envisioned for our future, but this is actually a great future that I never would have and planned for us. And yeah, so the kids were able to be home with Josh. I was working and all of our needs were met and I really just had. I. I remember a moment where I prayed, God help me love my husband better, because I know I'm not doing a great job at it right now. And it made it so much easier. I was able to look at him with so much more grace and love after I really surrendered that outcome that even though it was different than what I thought it was going to be.
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B
Then that a thing that we all have. I guess that's really the point, isn't it, Chelsea, that we all have these visions. We envision what it might look like and then when it's not that there is that opportunity to be bitter and to feel bummed out about it, but what you said was this is actually a great future. And here you sit, your book came out this week, is really cool, things going on. So that's very, very encouraging. Give us some advice for living with your in laws for three years.
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A
Yeah, so a lot of communication. And I also found that it's best like if you are living with your spouse's parents, you can have them be that mediator because if I had and, and I'll say this knowing that we have a great relationship with them, I couldn't have asked for better in laws. But if there was ever a point of conflict, it was best if I talked to Josh about that privately and he would go to them and talk to that, talk to them about it and kind of be that mediat. And I've heard from other people who have been in the same situations that that is really what works best. Because, you know, families, I guess just have that openness with each other that I don't know you can ever have with an in law or there might be that feeling like, oh, they're not saying everything they mean to say. You're walking on eggshells a little bit. So I think it's best to be very unified with your spouse and be on the same page about everything and then kind of have them communicate like, oh, you know, this is something that it's bothering us a little bit or whatever. We also had to learn how to set up boundaries with our kids and make sure that it was kind of our, you know, what we say goes. And you know, at first grandparents are just being grandparents and having all the fun and making sure that every moment of our kids day is filled with excitement and fun and new things. And we realized that wasn't super sustainable. So we had to kind of set up some boundaries. Like we don't, I think their love language is often gift giving. So we had to set up some boundaries like we don't need new things like every single day and yeah, so setting up some boundaries and I would definitely say have that mediator in your relationship but overall it was a really great experience. My in laws have this big home in Washington state and the third floor was just this one huge room. So we kind of made that our apartment. So we were able to kind of go up there and get away when we needed to and then spend time with our family. And Washington is beautiful. I had a hard time in the winters because it was very gray and rainy, but in the summer it was gorgeous. So we loved that too.
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B
What an experience. Chelsea, I think it's a really cool thing to talk about because I actually think it's pretty common, you know, especially with cost of living and, and school loans and things like that. Yeah, that, you know, you, I've talked to a lot of people that for a period of time they move in with parents or with in laws. What was the transition out of that like? Because that's a. The transition in and you talk about you're there for three years and there's all of that to figure out. But then the transition out is interesting, too, because then you're in your own space and the grandparents aren't there, and the kids are used to being with their grandparents. What was that like?
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A
Yeah, I would say it's very bittersweet. We were so excited to be able to be in our own space and finally own our own home for the first time. And so that was so exciting. And obviously we hyped that up for the kids a lot. We told our son, like, he was going to have bunk beds in his room and we were going to get a play set outside. And so we tried to make it very exciting, but it was bittersweet. The house felt quiet when it was just us, and it felt like there was less going on. And also, just as parents, you didn't have that help right there. Josh and I definitely took advantage of living with his parents because we would. We would put the kids to bed at night, and then he and I would maybe go out for a drink or something together and just say, like, hey, the kids are in bed. Here's the baby monitor. Let us know if anything happens. So we definitely took advantage of that built in babysitting. So I guess he and I had to get used to that when we moved out. But, yeah, luckily his parents visit us a decent amount, and my parents come and visit us, even though they live in New Jersey, they drive all the way down to South Carolina and visit us. So we do still have that close relationship with all of the grandparents in our life. But it definitely. We had to all get used to it, especially the kids not having their. Their grandparents right there next to them.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So you. You've had a lot in your 11 years, 11 years of marriage here, a lot of different experiences, a lot of challenges, a lot of interesting experiences. One of the things you talk about in your book, I thought this would make me happy, is you mentioned this critical period of marriage between five and eight years that's particularly challenging. Why is that period of time particularly challenging?
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Yeah, I think people talk about the honeymoon phase, and I think that typically will wear off within the first one or two years. And a lot of people, I think there's almost this embarrassment that comes with the idea of our marriage isn't what I thought it was going to be. It's. We're fighting all the time, but we go out and we still put on this happy face and we try to look put together and I think there's this almost taboo or embarrassment where people don't want to end things early on in the relationship. And it's kind of just my opinion that people get to that point and they're like, I just can't do it anymore. We've grown apart and maybe the kids are a little bit older, I'm not sure. And they, they choose to, to walk away at that point. And you know, it might be when, when finances start to get difficult, but you know, I was speaking with someone the other day and I've just noticed that there seems to be this sense of rigidity when it comes to relationships both in dating and marriage, where there's this mindset that if it's not serving me and it's not working for me, then I need to cut it out of my life. And if people aren't adapting to me and my needs, then it's just not going to work. And I think we've, a lot of, most of many of us in society have lost this idea that we can grow with our spouse and there's things that we can work on at the same time that there's things that they can work on. And I think that's one thing that comes with just deciding that you're not going to get divorced. I've heard a lot of couples say that, but I think we can go so much further and decide like we're going to grow together and make sure that this is a marriage that is joyful and is thriving rather than just something that were determined to stick out. And I think that's that mark where people are tired of sticking it out and they just decide to leave before it's too late and they can't meet someone else or something like that.
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B
Yeah, you had a statistic show that divorce rates are at their highest between five and eight years of marriage. I think you guys had kids right off the bat. But if kid, if, if couples wait, they wait a few years. Sometimes in that five to eight year time span, you're dealing with a lot of little kids and a lot of needs and that really upends things quite a bit in terms of who has to do what, who's responsible. You're exhausted.
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B
What advice do you give for couples that are in that time period, five to eight years or about Ted into it?
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A
Yeah, I think that's a really great point and that really, I think can throw a big wrench into people's lives to that maybe they're not expecting how difficult parenthood would be. And you really, if you're gonna make it work, you really have to learn to roll with the punches. And I think I talk about this in the book but you have to go into your relationship with the mindset of forgiveness and grace because there be there are going to be times when you're having a terrible day and it might be your spouse's fault, it might not be your spouse's fault at all and, or you know, vice versa. They're having a terrible day because of something with the kids or they're at odds with the kids and there's just this level of strain happening and you need to understand, take a step back and see what they are experiencing and give them grace but also communicate and say, you know, this attitude or these feelings are putting strain on our day or these words are hurtful but yeah, it makes so much of a difference. If you can have that attitude of forgiveness while also not shoving things under the rug. I talk about forgiveness a lot in my book and sometimes we have this tendency to forgive because that means that we don't need to confront. And that's not the case at all. It's not healthy to just say like, oh, they're just having a bad day and I'll just shove it under the rug. There's also this component of holding your spouse to a standard and say, hey, I don't want us to have a relationship where we speak to each other this way or where we are constantly huffing and puffing over something the other person did. And it's really important to be able to have those conversations with the mindset of grace instead of an attitude of why are you always this way? Why are you always saying things like this and saying, I know you're having a tough time, but this really can't be how we treat each other. How can we work on this together? I want us to have the best relationship possible. So I think having that long term goal of wanting a marriage that is happy, where you are in step with your spouse, where you speak to each other kindly and are working towards the same goals, it makes so much of a difference with how you choose to treat each other in the moment during difficult times.
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B
Yeah, that's really good. And it's interesting because it's really only a three year time span. I thought it was interesting that you wrote about that in the book, Chelsea. It's like okay, five to eight years. This is the most common time that people would get divorced, but it's only three years. And it's important to know that it is just a season. It's such an important thing to bring up because if you're in that period of time and you are drowning, which I think a lot of people. Well, I mean in that period of time, this is maybe the time when you've moved back in with your in laws. I mean it's a tricky time. You're trying to figure out your finances, you're trying to figure out childcare, you're trying to figure out maybe going to one income, all of those different things. And then the kids are crying and think it's going to be like this forever, but it's not. It really is just a short season. So what you have to do I think is let things go.
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A
This is.
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B
You talk about like grace and grace with your spouse, but also just grace with life. Like you're not going to remember all the temper Tantrums. And you're not going to remember, you know, the. All of the baby purees that you had to make and all. All of that, like all the diaper changes and the blowouts and all of that. You don't really remember that. And then it gets so much easier.
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A
Yeah.
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B
As the kids get older and then you make a little bit more money. It's kind of like a hard way to do life, you know, like. Like you're in this spot where you, like, hardly have any money and you've got all these kids and you're exhausted. And then in so many different realms, I feel like things get easier as time goes on.
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A
Yeah, well, if you think about it, when you're single, you have one person to worry about and you choose to be with a boyfriend or girlfriend and you choose when you spend time with them, and yeah, you meet some of their needs. But when you're married and especially when you have kids, it feels like you are being stretched in so many different directions. And you're constantly getting snacks, changing diapers, and you're making plans for other people, except, you know, beyond yourself, and you're trying to meet your spouse's needs and it can feel very, very draining. And, you know, we're kind of in a unique position where our two oldest kids are almost 10 years old and 7 year old. 7 years old. And then we have a 1 year old. And so we under. I think a lot of people, they get in the thick of it with young kids and it's really hard to imagine things ever getting better. Especially, you know, a lot of people have kids like two and a half years apart. I hear that all the time. When you have like two toddlers or a baby and a toddler, it can be really hard. And you just feel like, like that's around the time where I started my blog because I felt like I had no identity anymore and I was stretched so thin and I just needed to do something for myself that I just was doing just for fun. And yeah, when you're in the thick of it, it can be really draining. And people have a hard time understanding that that is a season. It does get so much easier. And yeah, Josh and I are starting to see that, or we have seen that now with our older two, it gets so much easier. They can tie their own shoes and get dressed and use the potty on their own. And now that we've had our third, we're starting from scratch again. But yeah, so it is a season of life. And I think some people are afraid that the season never ends and that's just how things are going to be. But you know, you have times of strain and times of joy, and hopefully the longer that you stick it out and work on your relationship, the times of strain are fewer and further in between, and the times of joy last longer. But yeah, I think a lot of people are. Are they kind of jump ship when they get into that tough season.
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B
Yeah. So what a great reminder, Chelsea, that it is only a season. And it's gotta be interesting for you now to have this. A 10 year old, a 7 year old and a 1 year old. You have perspective now that this is a season, it's not going to last forever. At some point, the one year old is also going to be tying shoes and the potty and all of those types of things. And so if you can make it through three years is a long time. Five to eight years is a tricky. I mean, those are hard years. Getting outside, as ironic as it sounds on this podcast, helped us a lot because nature occupies children. And so if you don't have opportunity to have babysitters or your kids won't go to a babysitter, if you go to a place where the kids will just sit and play, sometimes you can catch your breath and have a conversation. Okay, so you grew up in a big family. Interesting family. Unique. Tell us about it.
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A
Yeah, so I have a twin brother and he actually as twin boys himself. He and his wife, they had identical twins a couple years ago. I also have twin sisters and I have another younger sister. And they were all natural. Complete surprise to my mom. I have no idea how she did it. She actually homeschooled all of us until I was in middle school. And then I think it started to be a lot and. Yeah, and we grew up playing outside for hours and hours every single day after school. We would just go outside and we would run around barefoot. We had woods outside of our house. And my. I remember my brother and I made this sketchy tree fort that we would spend all of our time in. And then my dad came out and checked it out and he's like, yeah, this is pretty sketchy. So he kind of helped bolster it up for us. But yeah, those are some great memories. So I feel like so many of my memories from childhood are outside and playing in the woods with my brother and just finding random stuff to do. And that's something Josh and I hope to give our kids someday. We, we live in a neighborhood right now and it's, it's kind of, like, cookie cutter homes. Like, we have a quarter of an acre, but we chose a house with some green space behind it. And sometimes we do just send our kids out and we're like, go play. It's like a little ravine. There's like a trickle of water. And we. We also have these for our kids, their little, like, kid Garmin watches. And we could track their location. So we feel fairly comfortable sending them outside. And they've made. They've made a lot of friends in our neighborhood. It's funny, like, I walk outside and there's all these bikes in our front yard. And I just love seeing that, seeing that. Like, our house is often the one where kids come and hang out. And just knowing that our kids are just exploring outside for hours a day, it's. It's truly wonderful. And I find that they are just so much better regulated when they have spent several hours outside, rather than if we let them watch TV or go on their iPad for a little bit. It's weird. It's almost whenever we say, okay, you're going to be done for now, there's like a temper tantrum or their mood just drops dramatically. And if they are instead able to spend that time outside, we see such, such a difference in that.
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B
Yeah. So if you can make it to that point where your kids can go play outside, it's gonna just make everything easier. It takes the pressure off, and it makes their life better and your life better. And that's what your mom was doing, right, Just sending the kids outside. And those watches are great. There's Cosmo makes one called the Junior Track three, where there's like a GEO fence. So if your kid goes outside.
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A
Oh, I love that area.
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B
Isn't that neat? So they can always call you if they need you and if they go outside of the area because there are less kids outside.
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C
So.
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B
So it just helps. It gives some peace of mind, and it will alert you if they go outside of their.
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C
Their spot.
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B
So I do think it helps marriage, it helps family, it helps your kids, and it's a good. It's a good tip for getting through those years. That can be really challenging. And a lot of high blood pressure because kids are hard. Young kids are hard. Okay, so you've got a lot of practical advice in this book. This is. I thought this would make me happy.
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C
A lot of practical advice.
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B
What are some practical tips for couples to fight less and forgive faster? Which is a really big question.
- [30:16]
A
Yeah, I think the, the biggest tip that I like to share is to give your Spouse the benefit of the doubt. I think that's where a lot of couples have a hard time because they look at some past behavior. And we, we're often. We are often really good at giving ourselves grace and saying, like, I left the dishes out because I was busy or I was just so tired. But then if our spouse does it, we're like, why does he always do that? Why does he leave the dishes out? Why doesn't that I have to be the one to pick them up now? And so it can be very easy for us to show ourselves grace and just be kind of embittered toward. Toward our spouse and to kind of play the victim card a little bit. And so I say, try your best to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt. Take a step back, maybe look at the big picture. Even if there isn't some, like, bigger explanation, you can still show a little bit of grace for the little things. And. But, you know, we talk about big things that happen in marriages, like affairs and maybe lying about finances and all those things, but we don't as much talk about little tiny frustrations that just build up over time that I think if we don't address them or cover them in grace, one or the other, it can be. It can really just kind of build up that residue that doesn't allow you to connect with your spouse and have any kind of sympathy towards them. So, So I say that, and it really changes the way that we have conversations. If I go to my spouse and I say, hey, I know you've had a really long day, so I just, I took care of the dishes, or maybe I don't even need to say that, but I think that that can go so much further than why do you leave the dishes out? You know, it's just the tone, and then they get defensive and then it starts a fight. So I really think that that's one of the biggest things, you know, for me as a believer. It also helps just to know. I believe that God forgave me for so much. And when I remember that, it makes it so much easier to forgive my spouse, especially for the little things and even the big things that come up. I just, I, it. I just try to. I do my best to turn that forgiveness and grace around, knowing how much, how much I, you know, do that needs forgiveness all the time. And the last bit is just to have a humble attitude, knowing that you're not perfect, you get things wrong, and to be able to recognize that in yourself. And it really helps us. Us kind of get off our high horse, because I think it's very easy to think, I would never do something like that, or, you know, I have no problem putting my laundry in the laundry basket. But for some reason, they seem that. To never be able to find it. So I think having that level of grace, knowing that there's strengths that you bring to your relationship, there's strengths that your spouse brings to your relationship, and they're not going to be the same thing. They're not the same person as you, but you can complement each other in so many other ways. And yeah, so it really just helps to have that level of grace, Give your spouse the benefit of the doubt and not let that resentment build up. And then if it starts to try to check that and ask yourself, okay, this is something. Do I need to address this? Do I need to talk about this? Is it so bad that I need to bring someone, an outside party into our relationship and have them kind of mediate this discussion? You know, there's been times where I've gotten frustrated that things in my relationship. Relationship. And I don't know if I'm. If it's just me, if I'm the problem, or if it's something that Josh needs to change. And sometimes it really helps to have that person who is objective, won't side with you and just tell you everything you want to hear and say, like, I can't believe they did that. It's good to have that objective person who can say, like, okay, this is what I'm seeing. This is where I think we can kind of compromise and. And, yeah, who would you go to.
- [34:14]
B
For something like that? Like an actual therapist or friends? Older couples.
- [34:18]
A
Yeah, I think older couples are great. If you don't want to go to therapists, I think. I think therapists are great. So it really depends on I. I think maybe the level of help that you want. If it's, you know, a small disagreement that you just want someone else's thoughts on. I think going to a friend who you know will be objective and tell you the truth is really important. I would avoid going to parents or siblings or anything like that, because they're bound to decide with you or, you know, or. I don't. I don't think they'll bring that same level of objectivity to the conversation. But if you have, like, an older mentor or a counselor that, you know, I think that would be the perfect person. Someone who's been there for a while, such good advice.
- [35:05]
C
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- [37:43]
B
One of the things you also talk about in this book is selfishness comes up quite a bit. So what are some ways that we can identify selfishness and help overcome it in our relationships?
- [37:53]
A
Yeah, so in the book, I actually have this selfishness assessment and it can be really hard to recogn in ourselves. But I think if we stop and take a step back and look at our outer behavior, we can see if what we're doing is more often than not serving ourselves. And this can often look like quickly moving past our spouse's feelings. Like if we're. If let's say we're in an argument and they're trying to share their feelings with us and we're being dismissive and saying, you're only feeling that way because of X, Y, Z, that can be a sign of selfishness where you're not really willing to understand how your actions are impacting them and you're justifying everything you're doing. And I personally have a hard time with this where I am very good at trying to explain away why I did what I did and why it was justified and the circumstances I was in. And it doesn't come naturally to me to stop and just be like, like, you're right, I took that too far. My words weren't kind. You're right, I'm sorry. Like, I see how that would hurt you. So it's. It's very humbling to have to do that. And it's not easy. Sometimes we make decisions just unilaterally where we think we know best and we don't feel like we need to take it to our spouse or maybe they've shared with. Shared with us how they feel, but we think, okay, that's nonsense and just kind of going to go ahead and do this anyway. Sometimes we withhold affection if we feel like we need to make our point and put our point across. You know, we might be in an argument with our spouse and then we decide we're not going to talk to them for three days. Rather than prioritizing your relationship and trying to actually work it out and come to a solution, we kind of hold do like an emotional like hostage situation where we withhold that affectionate from our spouse until they change the way that we want them to. And then it can show up in some other common ways, like just putting our needs first, not necessarily thinking about them and their day and what they're going through. But it can show up in many different ways. But I found that selfishness can be the root of a whole lot of different problems in relationships.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah, that's a lot of ways. How can we overcome.
- [40:18]
A
Yeah. So I, I think it really, really we have to take a moment and humble ourselves and decide this is going to be a relationship where I serve my spouse and make that make their life better. I want to have a relationship that adds to their life rather than simply seeking what I need and making sure that all of my needs are fulfilled. So it really is this mindset shift of am I fulfilled, fulfilled, am I getting what I need versus I want to help fulfill my spouse? I want to give them what they need. And it can be really hard if you feel like you are the first person to make that mindset shift. But I think with good communication and help and prayer, we can. I think couples can both have that mindset shift where they're hoping to make their marriage the best that it can be for their spouse. So it really, it's kind of changing the way that you think and putting others above your yourself, which is not really popular these days. But if both spouses are able to do that, I think it really makes for the best marriage.
- [41:28]
B
Yeah, for sure. It's a really, really good advice. We're just, our kids are a little older than yours, so we're hitting the teen years and we're like, you know, in this, the new dating phase. And it's exciting, right? Like are you think back to when you were dating and everything is exciting and when do you get to see each other and what are you going to do you. And then often, and especially when you're talking about this sort of five to eight year thing, you've got little kids, it can become a lot of drudgery. And so one of the things that you talk about in this book is, you know, how can we refine joy in our marriage? How can we prioritize that? What are some things that you and Josh do to make sure that we're not sort of in this drudgery state all the time?
- [42:10]
A
Yeah, I think one of my biggest problems was thinking that Josh was going to be that sole source of joy. And I had a lot of insecurities growing up. I always had a person in my life that I treated as like this safety net where I would always go out with them and I would never be alone. I would always have someone that I was able to talk to and text and not feel alone. And when Josh and I started dating, it was the same story with him. I treated him as that little safety net. And it. After a few years of marriage, I felt this disillusionment. I thought this would be the sole thing that made me happy. All my life I waited for a marriage. And it does make me happy in so many ways. But there still something missing. And I re. I found out the hard way that I was putting so much pressure on him to be that sole source of happiness, that it was draining him so much. And I still wasn't getting what I needed. And I was so disillusioned, like, wondering why. Why isn't this what I thought it would be? And I realized that I couldn't. I couldn't find that sole source of happiness apart from God. God. And I was putting way too much strain on my marriage by trying to make Josh that sole source of happiness. And after I was able to realize, really took so much of the pressure off him and off our relationship to serve me, that I was finally able to enjoy other things in my life and find happiness in some of the experience that we would do together as a family. And it. I'm the type of person that always is looking for the next thing. Like, what's the next thing?
- [43:49]
B
Where.
- [43:49]
A
Where are we going to buy our house? What kids are we going to have? What jobs are we going to have? And I was finally able to get to a point where I enjoyed what I had and was able to make the most of that. And I think also having an attitude of gratitude didn't mean to rhyme there. But having that gratitude for what you do have in your life and your thankfulness for that made such. Such. It makes such a difference. So, yeah, I would say take the pressure off the people in your life and try to find things that you guys can do and enjoy together and be thankful for the things that you do have.
- [44:29]
B
I like that because it really. It reminds you that whatever joy you have, whether it's with your marriage or even if it's just an individual thing, like, you did talk about that in this book because you're like, well, and it makes sense, Chelsea. Like, you're a twin.
- [44:41]
A
Twin.
- [44:42]
B
So you always had someone There, I mean, that's a really unique life experience. You always have this twin, you always have someone there. So when you're finding joyful things to do as a family or as a couple, or even if it's joyful things that are on your own, that probably is going to really enhance your marriage because you're not trying to get so much out of just that one person.
- [45:03]
A
Yeah.
- [45:04]
B
And it sort of fixes that sort of issue that I. Yeah, it would be really draining if we're trying to be the one that is providing everything for this other person. And there's a lot of things in the world that you can find joy in in your marriage, in your family, and then outside of that, things that you love to do. So it's really good advice.
- [45:22]
C
Let's hit.
- [45:23]
B
Let's hit one more. I was curious about, when you go to write a book about marriage, was this all the things like did you feel like you already knew it all.
- [45:30]
C
Or did you have to really dig.
- [45:31]
B
Deep as you're going through the writing process? No.
- [45:34]
A
So it's a little of both. I, I wrote every chapter in the book starts with an anecdote. So. And a lot of them are from mine and Josh's life and a lot of them are from our friends, lives and acquaintances or people that I've talked to online. And so there are a lot of life lessons that I feel like we have trudged through ourselves. But I really, I love reading about marriage. And some of my favorite books are this Momentary Marriage by John Piper. I love Sacred Mar Marriage. Tim Keller has a book that I also love and I'm blanking on the title right now. I think the Meaning of Marriage, that might be what it is. But yeah, I just, I love diving into the deeper purpose of marriage. I think that, you know, I believe the Bible talks about the marriage being a picture of Jesus's love with the church and that's a self sacrificial and serving love. And so I loved learning about that, especially in this momentary marriage. And that really was a game changer for me when I read that. And it made so much sense that your marriage should be about so much more than just trying to find your own happiness. It could be a beautiful picture of self sacrificial love for another person. And then I also talk about generosity in the book and I think we can take that same love even further. And once we are able to build that strong foundation in our marriage, it makes it so much easier to love the other people in our lives. It makes it easier to love our kids. It makes it easier to love people in our community. You know, if you are worried about the fight that you just had with your spouse, you're not going to be your best for the other people in your life. You're going to be running that over in your head, thinking about what you should have said, worried about how the conversation that you're going to have with them later. And so it makes it so much better when you're able to build that strong foundation. So to answer your question, yeah, I've. It's a little bit of both. I've done a lot of research on marriage, and I love reading about it. And, you know, when you decide to never get divorced, you can just decide to stick it out or you can try to make your marriage the best it can be. And I've loved trying to read and figure out, okay, how can we make our marriage the best it can possibly be?
- [47:49]
B
I love that you love reading books about marriage and now you have your own book about marriage. What a cool thing, Chelsea. What a cool thing to come full circle. I had a question here what you hope readers take away from the book, but really, I think that the. If I were to guess, I'm going to guess and then you can tell me if I'm right.
- [48:05]
A
Okay, go ahead.
- [48:05]
B
Because this theme has come up several times and is that it goes beyond we're not getting divorced. It goes far beyond that.
- [48:14]
A
Yeah, we. I almost wanted to name the book More than a Marriage because I feel like once your marriage could be so much more than just two people who are happy. And I think that's wonderful and beautiful, but I think it has a much grander purpose. And I think we can find that once we're able to love our spouse well, and we're able to, you know, lots of times it's really hard when we have this inner focus. We think about all the problems in our life and how we're not feeling the best we can be. And it can be very isolating when all we can think about is all of the problems that are happening or how I'm not feeling well. Whereas I think just very practically, I think it can be such a mood booster when we're able to look outside of ourselves and, you know, help out where we can and love other people well. And when we're able to take the focus off ourselves into other people and helping them, it can really just change your outlook in life and change how down you feel about yourself, just in a very practical sense. And so I think that same lesson can apply to our marriages. Once we're able to love our spouse well and work on that, it can be so much more than just two.
- [49:25]
B
Happy people, more than marriage. That's beautiful. I love it. What about the respite care and foster care? We have a lot of listeners that. That are foster parents or they're doing similar to what you did, the respite care. What thoughts do you have for them? Yeah.
- [49:42]
A
So my husband and I, we had our first foster placement May of 2022. And, you know, you do all of this training and education before you, you know, in order to become licensed, and. Well, that was so good. I feel like that made us way better parents than we were before that, because it just. It helped us understand that behavior is actually commun. And the way you manage it is just different. But when we got our first placement, it just turned our whole world upside down. We doubled the number of kids that we had overnight. And there was a lot of trauma that came with that. And Josh and I, really, way more than we ever had to before, had to learn grace, because when you're dealing with those trauma behaviors, it can be very triggering to you when you're doing it. It every single day, all day, and you can just be on edge. And we were on edge, and we had to. Honestly, we just had to learn how to look each at each other and just laugh sometimes because our life was just so crazy during that season. And, you know, if you don't laugh, you'll cry sometimes. So we just. We had to learn how to lean on each other a lot and give each other a lot of grace because sometimes he and I were not having good days, and we would be short with each other and. And just kind of like on our. The. The at the end of our rope. And we had to show each other so much grace. And I think after that, it really helped to strengthen our marriage. But if we didn't have that firm foundation, it would have been so much harder and way more distracting. Because we had that firm foundation, we were able to focus way more into the boys that came into our home, into our biological genes, children, to make sure they're getting what they needed. And we weren't perfect, but it helped so much since that place we found out we were pregnant with our daughter at the very end of that placement. And since then, we've been doing respite placements because I'm still working full time. And we feel like that's all we have the capacity for right now in this Season. And I love foster care so much, but Josh had to remind me, like, we still have our whole lives to do long term placements. We don't need to force ourselves to do that in the season where we have small kids and you're working and all of this. So we're doing respite placements. We do probably one or two respite placements a month and if you don't know what that is, it's essentially licensed foster care babysitting. So oftentimes we'll get a call from our agency and they'll say we have a family and they're going on vacation and they're not able to bring the kids or they just need a break, they're having a hard time and they just need a few days for a breather. Can you take these kids for the weekend or for the week? And we'll say, yeah, we have enough beds, we can take them and yeah, so they'll come. We'll either go pick them up or they'll be dropped off by DSS or by their foster parents. And we just try to make it a fun weekend for the kids where, you know, there's so much going on. We had a placement this past weekend and there was this four year old girl and she loved doing makeup, which worked out great because my daughter loves doing makeup on people. So they were doing makeup and hairspray styles the whole weekend. And then we had a little baby boy who was about the same, well, he was like 1 years old, so he was the same age as our daughter and they were just bopping around and playing and it was kind of good for our daughter because she's the baby and so she had to learn how to share some things and see mommy hold another baby for a little bit. But yeah, it was, it's, it's good to know that we're able to still help in foster care. And I think a lot of people, people don't real. They're afraid to get involved in foster care because it is it all or nothing. But I think respite is a good option to help support foster families when you might not be ready to say yes to a placement indefinitely because you never know how long the children will be with you. It could be a few weeks, it could be years, it could be forever. So if you don't feel like you're ready for that but you still want to help in foster care, providing respite care can be a great option for people who aren't ready for that long term. Care commitment.
- [53:59]
B
Yeah. And it really is so helpful because, well, maybe someone has to get a small surgery or they've got a day at the doctor, there's going to be, you know, they're in inpatient for a couple days or something like that. So a lot of reasons that respite care would be needed. So that's so important for parents to know. Oh, Chelsea, what a book. I thought this would make me happy. I love that you said behavior is communication. You're talking about that with what you learn for parenting. But also it's true for marriage too. For everything thing. Behavior is communication is true for everything. I thought this would make me happy. How to fight less, forgive faster and cultivate joy in your marriage. It is out now. It came out this week. This week that we're recording. So you can pick up that book if you are interested and you can find out more about Chelsea on our website, chelseadamond.com and on social media. I will link to that as well. Chelsea, we always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?
- [54:53]
A
Yeah, I think one of my favorite memories, I have this memory, memory. It's just so peaceful to me and I love peaceful things. I have this memory of just taking a book and we have this 200 year old farmhouse that I grew up in and then there was like a tree line and a lower field and I took that book out into the lower field and there's this tree and I just climbed up in it and I read my book and I actually took a nap in the tree. I don't know how I did that. And I ended up falling asleep and I woke up and I was like, oh, that was kind of crazy and maybe a little bit dangerous, but at the same time that was so peaceful and that's like, I don't know, a memory that I love from childhood because it's just, it felt so serene just being out in nature and so relaxed and you know, and that couple that with all the memories of making weird and random forts with my brother out in the woods too.
- [55:43]
B
I love it. Chelsea, huge congrats on book number two. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.
- [55:48]
A
You're so good at this, so good at all the transitions and questions. You're. You're on top of it for sure.
- [55:55]
C
Yeah.
- [55:55]
A
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