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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 728: Choose to Be Free | Jennie Allen, The Lie You Don't Know You Believe
00:59:53
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- [00:01]
Jenny Allen
This episode is brought to you by Peloton Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread plus. Powered by Peloton iq. With real time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go. Explore the new peloton cross training Tread plus@onepelaton.com Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast.
- [00:28]
Jenny Ert
My name is Jenny Ert. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I'm so excited. Jenny Allen is back. She has a brand new book, the lie you don't know, you believe how to find it, fight it and live free. Jenny. Welcome back.
- [00:40]
Jenny Allen
The Jenny's coming to y'.
- [00:41]
Jenny Ert
All.
- [00:42]
Jenny Allen
Right.
- [00:42]
Jenny Ert
That's right. That's right. Okay, so, I mean, you are, are you writing books constantly?
- [00:47]
Jenny Allen
I am, actually. I just laid out my next book. But you gotta understand, that's what got me into all the things that I do. Like, I am a content person. I think in content. I actually have my next four books in my phone and I've, I, all the ones I've written in the last few years I thought of years ago as well. So, yeah, I'm a, I, I'm a content machine. Yeah.
- [01:07]
Jenny Ert
Like, it just doesn't end.
- [01:09]
Jenny Allen
I mean, this is, it really doesn't. Yeah, but I enjoy it like that. That's a good speed for me. It actually, I, I, I should say I usually enjoy it. There's plenty of times I want to quit and I wonder what I've done.
- [01:20]
Jenny Ert
But yeah, a, well, writing is hard. You have to have a lot of internal motivation just to keep going. Okay. You are a three times New York Times bestselling author with over 4 million. I was like, you know, I put out a book, I'm like, Hope it sells 10,000 copies.
- [01:38]
Jenny Allen
Wait, I kind of am curious what you're about to say. I don't even think I know this.
- [01:42]
Jenny Ert
You've sold over 4 million books.
- [01:44]
Jenny Allen
Yeah, I don't think so. Really? That's crazy sauce. Nobody's told me that. I just found that out.
- [01:50]
Jenny Ert
That's wild.
- [01:51]
Jenny Allen
I would have guessed like half that or I don't know. That's wild. Okay.
- [01:55]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [01:57]
Jenny Allen
Thanks for filling me in.
- [01:59]
Jenny Ert
Good for you. Good for you. So I've read several of them and we talked last time. I'm like, I know people, they're like giving your books out for gifts because they've been so impactful for them and so this new one you have coming out, it's called the lie you don't believe. And if you're listening to this, it's either out today or tomorrow, or it's, like, right around the corner. So go grab your copy. Grab a copy for a friend. Grab a copy for your kids about the lie you don't know you believe. I would love for you to tell us about your lie. You said you felt worthless, and it showed up in the sixth grade. You say, I was just a kid, naive and happy, and then suddenly I wasn't. This is where it starts to take root. Why the sixth grade?
- [02:39]
Jenny Allen
You know, I think we all have an age that everything changes, and. And it is something that happens to us. For me, it was just a naive, simple conversation with my dad, but it was the beginning of believing that I had to strive to measure up. And a lot of things in life would tell me that going forward, but what really made me write this book was seeing it in my daughter. I don't think I fully hated that struggle in myself until I saw it in my daughter. And when I saw it there, I. I wanted to fight it. Because we raised our kids where we were not uber critical. We didn't have high expectations of them. And she was believing the same lie I was believing. We don't all believe the same lie, but she believed the same lie I believe. And so it had to make me look inside and go, is this contagious? Like, did I give this to her just by breathing the same oxygen for all these years? And, yeah, I mean, I would say the answer is yes. I mean, I hope it's motivating to people to go, okay, I need to figure out what mine is and be sure I'm passing it on into the world, you know?
- [03:52]
Jenny Ert
Yes. For sure. That was a huge part of the book because you said, like, through our own lives, we are announcing to our children, like, what's going on with us, and that goes on for decades and decades when they're growing up in our household. So you said you're at the airport. This is when your daughter, you know, she's older at this point, and she says she's basically feeling the same things as you.
- [04:15]
Jenny Allen
I know. Yeah. I mean, I'm so angry listening to her. She's. First of all, my daughter Kate. I have two daughters. One is a photographer and is married. And she is just fire. I mean, she walks through life and everybody knows her. She is. She loves people so well. She loves God. Like, she's just this magnetic, amazing, human Married a wonderful man, and I'm just so proud of them. I mean, they. They're lives are beautiful. And I was just at a party with them a couple days ago that they hosted. And, I mean, there's 50 people in their house, like, coming out of the seams. And. And she's thought of everything, you know? Like, she is. She's just. I'm bragging on her, but she's just, wow.
- [04:57]
Jenny Ert
She's just like a wow person.
- [04:59]
Jenny Allen
She's a wow person. That's a great.
- [05:01]
Jenny Ert
Whether it's coming from mom or not. Like, any party for 50 other people would say it.
- [05:06]
Jenny Allen
And so when you get to, you know, a point where you're being honest, and she says, mom, I feel. I feel broken. I feel defective. I don't feel like somebody that God could use. I want to come out of my skin. I mean, it is so obviously ridiculous. It is. It's not just a lie. It's like the worst one you've ever heard. It just. It couldn't be further from what's true of this kid of mine. And. And so when she's saying all of these negative things about herself, I'm going to. I'm gonna fight. Like, I'm gonna. I'm ready. Like, I'm a preacher. Like, let's go. I'll take you to the mat, you know, And. And sure enough, as I kind of start in, she goes, mom, no, you're my mom. You have to think that. Meaning she's defending her quote, truth. Her truth. And. And, I mean, then I'm just frozen. I can't even help. And. And I'm sitting there going, oh, I'm paralyzed tonight. I. I'm looking at her, and I'm going, oh, my gosh, she thinks it's true. And. And then, of course, I'm. I get another gut punch because I'm like. And so do you. You know, like, I. I believe the same things about myself, and I always have. And so it was. That was kind of the beginning of this whole journey for me.
- [06:24]
Jenny Ert
And I think that just showcases then why this is so important to figure out, because you have to. One of the things that you say is you have to sort out where the lie is coming from. And you wrote, even if I wasn't making my kids live up to some ridiculous standard, watching me try to live up to it was enough. Ugh. You're right. Which is why Kate wrestles with the same garbage thinking I dealt with all my life, because she watched you day after day, year after year.
- [06:52]
Jenny Allen
You know, I mean, it's hard to hear that, Red as. I mean, I never wrote it. It's just. It's hard to think about. And I still struggle with it because I don't think as a parent I would have ever factored in my contagious, invisible thoughts, you know?
- [07:10]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [07:10]
Jenny Allen
You know, I wouldn't have. Like, I would have been like, I shouldn't put that on my kid. I would have. I would have known what not to do to them. I wouldn't have thought I could just be contagious in my own being by just believing these things in front of them. But, yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that's part of this story. And yet. And yet I am experiencing new levels of freedom. My daughter is experiencing way more freedom than when I started this project. Not because of the project. She hadn't even. My kids never read my books, but. But. But just processing it and going to counseling and being in her own growth journey, you know, she. She is different today. And so I do want people to know, like, this isn't something that has to define us. Even if you grew up in that home, it. Even if you feel like, gosh, I've ruined my kids, you know, and it's not just that lie, Right? There's several. But.
- [08:02]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [08:03]
Jenny Allen
But I do believe that these core lies are unrecognizable. It's why I named the book what I did, which is the lie you don't know you believe because to some degree, she didn't know she was believing a lie. And I think all of us are the same way. Like, I think we. We just. It's the way we think. And so sixth grade was the first time I consciously remember having the thought, but, I mean, I could have been earlier. And. And so when I look at sixth grade, it was always with me after that. Like, I still have to wrestle it down. I mean, it's book launch week right now, right? Like, I will be wrestling it down if I'm. If I'm honest. Like, nothing is ever good enough. And so, you know, I think there's a story that we've told ourselves for so long that. That it. It feels impossible to interrupt and to. To shift.
- [08:54]
Jenny Ert
I love that you frame this from that perspective of saying, then you're shocked your kid has the same feeling. And like you said, it could have been any lie, but it's just such a reminder that we have to figure this out for ourselves because we pass things on. Kids perceive, I think, more than we realize they perceive. So The. The sixth grade thing is interesting, too, because the. I bet you were just like, you know, you're a kid, you're happy go lucky, right? And there's, like, these childhood development nose. It's like 0 to 6, 6 to 12, and 12 to 18. And that's when, like, your brain starts to shift. And, like, I would imagine a lot of people might relate to that, like, sixth grade, seventh grade, where you're like, wait a minute. Annie F. Downs told a story about it where she was like, happy go lucky. And then someone said something to her like, oh, in that video, home video from last year, you looked a lot thinner.
- [09:42]
Jenny Allen
Oh, my gosh.
- [09:44]
Jenny Ert
And she was like, right around that age.
- [09:47]
Jenny Allen
It's not okay. I mean, I. I just feel so clear that we are so moldable. I mean, let me just kind of show my cards. I know not everybody listening are people of faith, but. But let me just say, like, I am a person of faith, and I believe there's a God, and I believe there's an enemy. And the enemy is, even if you. If you don't and you're listening, you're going, I don't know if I believe that. I think it helps for the context of this conversation just to. To say there's evil. And we all feel that, right? We all know that there's evil underneath all the darkness that we see. And it's coming for us as kids. I mean, that's the thing that I have to mention is, like, most people can document a time and name a time. Like, it's so cool. I'll do this in rooms, and I'll. I mean, huge rooms. And I'll say to the whole, you know, thousands of people, I'll say, you know, there was a time when you were a kid, and I'm telling you, they'll start yelling out the age. They know it. They don't have to think about it like you. It's like, I was five. I know my dad walked out. I was. I was 13. I had an abortion by myself. I was this old. This happened. Like, they remember the moment where everything shifted and they felt alone and they felt terrified. And those are really strategic moments for us to. We're very vulnerable, and we're still making sense of our world. And it is crazy how there's, like, defined times that just. Everything begins to shift. It's terrifying.
- [11:15]
Jenny Ert
So interesting. It is. I interviewed this Holocaust survivor named Dr. Edith Eager, and she told the story about how she got separated from her mom in line. And there was a time when they were in the line, and they asked, is this your mom or is this your sister? And she said, and she was young. I mean, you know, 11 or, you know, 12. Like a kid. You know, maybe she was a little. Maybe she was like an early teen. And she said that if she would have said sister, and she said her mom looked young, that they would have been able to stay together. And because she said mother, they separated. And then she said that was the last time she saw her mom. And she called it a severing. A severing. Like, it was like that moment when your life is never the same again. The severing moment. And you do see that in so many people's stories where there is a severance, like something happens. And obviously that's a more. Like, a much more extreme case than any of us would ever even.
- [12:10]
Jenny Allen
Well, okay, but let's go ahead and talk about the other lies, because I think that actually is a different category. So what we're talking about so far is I am worthless. So if you go to read Psych 101, which I do a lot of research on, mental health, you read Psych 101, you'll see, like, three main lies that humans believe. And I liked that as a starting place, because I, you know, I tend to believe. I believe a thousand lies all the time. But. But honestly, like, most of them can boil down into these categories. So let's talk. Is it Edith? Is that her name?
- [12:39]
Jenny Ert
Yes.
- [12:40]
Jenny Allen
So let's take Edith, for example, and say hers is probably still to this day, I am helpless because those that experience trauma, those that experience things out of their control, it might not be abuse. It might be abuse, or it might be a cancer diagnosis when you were young or something that you just couldn't control. A lot of times, that's when that core lie enters, and that's, you know, we all feel all of these lies at different points. I'm helpless. I'm worthless. I'm unlovable. We all feel all of those things. We might be like, oh, it's all of them. I would say each of us feels one more than the other. And that really begins to define the one that you don't even notice, the one that's a core lie that got put in you at some point and then fed and nursed and held on to. Right? And so I think it's good to just name those three different ones. And on the surface, you may not relate to all of them. You might relate to all of them. I would just say we built a Simple little tool that. That you can have for free on your show notes that is just helps you kind of zero in, because you may not relate to feeling helpless, but you may relate to the fact that I really like to control everything. And I really like things to work out a certain way, like thoughts like that. And so it kind of helps you. You dive into, like, what is mine. And the reason it's so important, Jenny, is because if we can't name it, then we can't fight it. And so we have to be able to know. Here's. Here's what freedom looks like for me today. It doesn't look like never feeling that. It doesn't look like, you know, perfectly believing that I am loved, that I am. I matter without my performance. It doesn't look like, you know, I get control over all my life. You know, those aren't the answers to these issues. It looks like in a friendship, being able to say, you know what? Sometimes I think I'm. I'm coming at this with my woundedness. And I sometimes want to achieve or measure up because I tend to believe that I won't matter unless I do. Let me just say, when I've said those things in relationships with my husband, with people I love, with my friends, it shifts the whole conversation to something that is real. It helps me get free. It helps them go, oh, I'm so glad you said that. Me too. You know, it's just. It gives you tools when you can name it, when you can say, you know, I don't know if I'm approaching this friendship out of, you know, I probably reacted because sometimes I can tend to think like, I. It's easy to be rejected. Like, everybody rejects me. And I don't want to live out of that. Like, I want to. I want to come into this wholehearted. It just gives you framework when you can name it and begin to work through it.
- [15:35]
Jenny Ert
And so that's one whole part of the book is the lie. You don't know. You believe it's figuring it out. So there's a QR code in the book where you can go take this quiz and you say that there's a lot of ramifications here. First of all, we already talked about the ramifications for what your kids are observing. But also, you say, I've talked to hundreds of people about living with lies. The pattern is always the same. They stop thriving. They get cynical. They isolate. They start to question everything. Their relationships, their truth, even God, their anxiety goes through the roof.
- [16:04]
Jenny Allen
Yeah.
- [16:05]
Jenny Ert
And worst of all, they begin to believe that they are powerless to change anything. Their hope starts to die.
- [16:12]
Jenny Allen
Yeah, I see it all the time. And then I see the opposite too. I see people believe for a moment. You know, I'm blessed to get to be in lots of rooms with lots of people. And even just this last week, on Wednesday night, I was in a church in San Antonio and I'm talking to a little girl that, you know, she. She just wanted God. And she was like, I. Tonight I believe for the first time, like, I'm not worthless. And I just think that's. That's real. Like, it can shift like that. And again, not that she won't struggle with that again, just like me and probably you and everybody else, like, we struggle with it. It's just that there's another fighting force, right? It's like, it's not just that. It's not just that that I am worthless. And you're stuck and isolated in that for the rest of your life. It's like, could it be untrue? I have. That's one thing I've learned to do with myself. Like, what. What if what I'm thinking right now isn't even true? And, and that has been helpful and gives me a lot of it actually kind of makes it fun. Because you're like, okay. Like, I'm in a mood, you know, I'm. I feel anxious. I feel spin up about something. I'm. I'm really worried and I'm like, what if it just is okay and I'm not. I'm not. There's no threat. Like, I'm actually okay. And I am okay, by the way, almost always. Because even if the worst happens, I still have people that love me. I still have my relationship with God. Like, if the worst happens, there are things that cannot be taken from me. And so I, you know, I'm learning. I'm learning.
- [17:54]
Jenny Ert
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- [22:12]
Jenny Allen
Yeah.
- [22:13]
Jenny Ert
And I mean that could go your whole life. Yeah. What would you say to them?
- [22:18]
Jenny Allen
Well, first of all, I would say, of course you are. Like, of course you are. We've been trained well, you know, and, and I would just say that how? You know, the next question I would ask is just I'd have so much grace, first of all, for you, because I am that girl. And I know why you're so tired. And, and then I would say, what if you stop? What happens? Because it's not that we, you know, the other extreme is we give up, you know, and we just, we don't care anymore. And almost rebellion. Like just screw this, screw everybody, whatever. And I mean a lot of people are in that right now because they're just burnt out and apathetic because it's just been so. The world is just so much right now. So much. And so I would just say either place, I just get it. And I have so much compassion for that. And I believe God does, too, because it's a natural reaction. Both things are very natural reaction to too much pressure and feeling like we could fix it ourselves. And so, you know, I love. I have a couple people that I love that are neck deep in AA right now, and God bless them, it's. It's a fight every day. And. And I love aa. And there's so much I've learned about life from AA and Al Anon. And what I would say is the way they approach that is, you know, Lord, like, help me to accept the things that I cannot change, to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Right? That's the serenity prayer that they open with every week. And. And I mean, gosh, there's a lot of wisdom in that because to some degree, you know, the lie under all these lies is I could control my life. Like, I'm not helpless. I could control it, you know, but that's not always true, you know, and that's a worse lie, right? And if we live for that, we're gonna really burn out, and we can't. And. And then two, that I'm. I'm unlovable. I could be liked by everybody. I could be loved by everybody. That's not realistic either. And then the other one, I am worthless. I could finally matter. I could finally do enough and accomplish enough and matter. And those are the scarier lies. Those are the lies that are underneath the obvious ones because we think those lies are true, too. So we work really hard at it. We try to make it work. And so I think that's what I would just encourage people to do, is there's a different way. And that way of surrender, which is what AA teaches you, is just that I am surrendered to what I cannot control. I am committed to what, to changing what I can. Right. There are things we can, but we're not. We're not going to live mastered by this world and everything in it. And it is sending a lot of messages right now to measure up, to be accepted, to. To not be alone, to be, you know, in control. And it's just. I think we all kind of know we can't.
- [25:27]
Jenny Ert
Yeah, everyone's burnt out from it. Everyone. Yeah, everyone. I think because you. Because you are able to narrow down to these three core lives, it really actually Helps you to understand that it would be, like, the most effort. You know, it's like climbing a mountain's worth of effort to combat them. If you try harder, like, honestly, like, how you're gonna. You're chasing love, you know, you're chasing worth. You're chasing control. I mean, these. That's too much pressure. Too much pressure is too much in such a shifting world. And there's so many moving parts, right? So you talk about, okay, we could try harder or we could give up. You talked about a time when you were just like, there's so many things going on, and all you want to do is hide under the covers. And then you talk about the surrender strategy, which feels counterintuitive because you're like, I don't want to surrender to that. But you say effort feels noble. It does. Eventually, though, you end up being exhausted, bitter and empty. Numbing out and coping out feels freeing. Numbing out and coping feels freeing at first, but eventually. Eventually leaves us lonely, jaded, and hollow.
- [26:37]
Jenny Allen
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we all want to be the people that arrive somewhere. And the lie. Another lie, is just there's no people that arrive somewhere. You know, it's like those people that look like they've arrived are the least happy people, you know, And. And that's freeing. That should be really freeing for us. You know, I've heard it said that. That it is the grace of God to get everything your heart wants because then, you know, it's not enough. And I'm like, you know, that's interesting. Like, otherwise, we kind of chase it forever and ever. And I think as I've gotten some of the things I thought I needed, you know, they. They haven't made anything feel better. It's actually been a gift because it's like, oh, I. I don't. That doesn't do anything for me anymore. Right. You. You know, it's true, but when it happens, you go, oh, okay. That. That really didn't feel as good as I thought that it would. But what does feel good is honest, deep conversations with people about what's real and connection and not feeling so alone. That actually works. Like, that actually heals things for people.
- [27:46]
Jenny Ert
Isn't that interesting? It's like, there's this book, it's by Sahil Bloom. It's called the Five Types of Wealth. And he talks about how, you know, there are people so focus on material wealth. But he's like, there's other types of wealth. Like, how is your physical health? And that's a type of wealth. And how are your relationships? And, you know, he goes through these different things, and he talked about, you know, the people. And everyone's heard these stories, right, about the people that have won the lottery. And they're not any happier than the people who got in a massive car accident and are, like, undergoing all of this physical therapy. Like, after a period of time, it really just evens out. Yeah, but you still think, like, I'm like, but if it were me, right,
- [28:22]
Jenny Allen
I would know what to do. It would work for me. It does. It. I mean, that. What's cool about conversations like this is we're all the same. Like, we're just not all that different. And I know the world is so divided right now, and I know it feels like everybody is so different, but we're all actually after the same thing. We're afraid of similar things. We want the same things. Everybody's just going about it in very different ways. And, And I would just say at the core of all of us, it's like every, you know, I think of my counselor, Dr. Kurt Thompson, that says every baby born comes into the world looking for someone, looking for them, and they never stop. And one of the greatest ways for, for us to, like, meet eyes with someone and feel seen and feel known is to struggle and to be honest about that. And I think it's a starting point, right? Like, this is a conversation that hopefully for you, you know, my hope is somebody listening is like, questioning right now, like, they're, they're going to. I. I felt insecure all my life. Like, what if. What if that's not true? Because you've believed for so long it is. You know, my, My, my prayer is that a lot of people are right now, like, questioning things that have been assumptions before. And as you start to do that, you share it with people. Because a lot of times now, as Kate's mom, that day, she wouldn't let me preach to her. But a lot of times it does help to have someone else look at you and tell you what's true. And so we need that, you know, we just. We can't do this by ourselves.
- [30:01]
Jenny Ert
Yeah, absolutely. And that's why, if you surrender, then you have a lot more tools at your disposal, I think. I mean, the book is really saying, you know, it is. I think it is human nature to try harder and to overcome the lie. I think it is human nature to numb out and. And ignore it. And it's not human nature to surrender. But your book shows so well that that path that's going to really Help to start to change things for you. You talked about a book that I had not thought about in decades by Max Lucado called you are Special.
- [30:33]
Jenny Allen
And did you read that to your kids?
- [30:35]
Jenny Ert
I didn't. I missed it while we still got kids so I could still read it. Someone read it when I was in high school at a youth group, and it was so long ago that I think they had put the. Made the book into, like. Do you remember when they had, like, those slides? It was like a plastic. It's like they turn the pages into, like, these plastic things and put it on some sort of a projector. So cute.
- [30:59]
Jenny Allen
Okay.
- [31:00]
Jenny Ert
And yeah, to the high school, like, the probably middle and high schoolers.
- [31:04]
Jenny Allen
Wasn't it good? That was a great book to read you in high school.
- [31:07]
Jenny Ert
Good. Ages 12 to 18. That sort of, like, pivotal stage of childhood. That's when they read it and it was, like, about putting the.
- [31:14]
Jenny Allen
It's called. It's Max. Okay. For everybody. That's like, which book is it? You are Special by Max Lucado? And I mean, every human needs to read it. It's so good.
- [31:23]
Jenny Ert
Yes. Can you talk about it a little bit as, like, that would be a great tool for a family.
- [31:28]
Jenny Allen
Well, so this little puppet. It's about wooden puppets. And this little puppet ends up, you know, getting all these little dots. So the little puppet society, they each get stars or they get dots if they mess up, and stars if they do well. And he gets a lot of dots. He just doesn't do very well in life. Punchinello. Yeah. And so Punchinello meets this girl that doesn't have stars, but she doesn't have dots either. And he is like, how do you do that? And he. She said, well, I go every day to the puppet maker, to the wooden, you know, the wood carver. And he takes off all my stars and my dots. And so Punchinello goes and sees the wood carver named Eli, who's, you know, symbolic for God. And. And he said, if you just come see me every day, I'll take these off. Like. And it's just that relationship, you know, that if we have a relationship with God, like, we don't have to live for what this world lives for. And. And we don't have to be lovable every day because we aren't. And we don't have to be in control every day because we can't be. And we don't have to matter and be worse. You know, our worth doesn't have to come from how we achieve. But I would just say Without God. And that's so much of what A is about, right? Is this surrender. And it's this idea of, like, a higher power believing that. That there's more than just what this world has to offer. And I think that's where I found a lot of hope.
- [33:02]
Jenny Ert
It is wild because. So this would have been in the 1990s that someone chose to read that book, to a kid's book, to a bunch of teenager.
- [33:10]
Jenny Allen
But you've never forgotten it.
- [33:11]
Jenny Ert
And I never forgotten. I even almost remembered the name of the puppet. And an interesting thing, too, that he takes off the stars. It's like. It's just like none of our works that, you know.
- [33:22]
Jenny Allen
Yeah, it feels good. It's freeing. It's like. Yeah, because if you get stars, you got to keep getting stars.
- [33:28]
Jenny Ert
That's right.
- [33:29]
Jenny Allen
If you win, you got to keep winning. It's never enough. And so I think that's. That's the freedom is like, oh, wow, I can. I can live without all of this. And I'm okay. And I'm better than okay. Like, I'm really free, and. And it's like, I don't have to play into that world system. I think that's what I mean. I hope. I hope my kids see more and more in my life, and I believe they do, and I believe they did at times. Right. This was also true of me. Also true of me, while I struggled with that lie, was that I was becoming more free, and I was living not for the approval of people, not for measuring up. Like, they also saw parts of that in me, and that's where they also are pretty free. Right. Like, they. They're not in complete bondage. But. But I do believe that, you know, it was still there, like, right under the surface.
- [34:22]
Jenny Ert
Right.
- [34:22]
Jenny Allen
It was just. Still. It was still there, almost like it was taunting me kind of, you know, where even if I would get free, it was like, but can you be like. Or do you need to hit these marks? And. Yeah, I think that's why it's important we talk about it.
- [34:36]
Jenny Ert
It's like, you would think you'd only want the dots to be taken off, but leave me all the stars. All right, here's a star dot situation with Max Lucado. So, actually, he came on our show, which was a really big deal because especially. Especially for my parents. They never know anybody that's coming on the podcast. They're like, who? And I was like, they knew him. I was like, max, Everybody knows him. Yeah. So anyway, I just started reading America's Pastor.
- [34:57]
Jenny Allen
If you don't know him if you don't know him. He's like America's pastor.
- [34:59]
Jenny Ert
Yeah, that. Okay, so there's my star. Here comes my dot. Okay, so I just. Recently there's this. We've got this almost like, theme song to go with our podcast now. And it's a song called Beautiful World by this band in paradise. And our daughters got to be a part of the song. Our older daughters. Like, one of them plays guitar, one of them singing background vocals. You can't hear very well, but it's in there. So anyway, be like, we're started to bookend this year this song in the podcast. And so I've started to record these like, intros and outros and never done it before, but I'm like, actually, that's like what everybody else does. So anyway, it was crazy late at night one night, and I was like, oh, I gotta record this intro for Max. And I just had like, it was late at night, my brain like, just was out the window. And I was like, is it Max Lucado or is it Max Lucado? Lucado Kado. And it was like midnight. No, I know, I know, I know, I know. So then I looked it up on the Internet.
- [35:47]
Jenny Allen
Oh, man. Girl. Yeah.
- [35:50]
Jenny Ert
And one of the things that Lucado. So I recorded this intro that says Max Lucado. And then like the next morning, the publicist was like,
- [36:02]
Jenny Allen
emailing.
- [36:03]
Jenny Ert
And I was like, when I was able to re record it, but you
- [36:07]
Jenny Allen
know, we should all be sending our pronunciation with our name. That's just. That's just only fair.
- [36:13]
Jenny Ert
But my husband was like, ginny. He was like, everybody knows that. That's not how you say it. You know, I mean, obviously for someone of that caliber.
- [36:22]
Jenny Allen
Hey, you have a little accent. You could blame it on that. Where. Where are you from, Jenny?
- [36:26]
Jenny Ert
I'm from Michigan, so.
- [36:27]
Jenny Allen
Michigan.
- [36:28]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [36:28]
Jenny Allen
Just blame it on that. Blame it on Michigan.
- [36:30]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. But you know, you just, you do. You have these stars and these dots and you know, that one doesn't really matter. And I was also able to fix it, but I'm. I was embarrassed and I was like, oh, my goodness, what a thing of that. Of course, it's like that person. So anyway, I. I do love. I love that you include it in the book because here's why I think that I. When there is a book that a parent can read in a home and also have like a counterpoint for the kid, I think it's a really powerful situation. And you have, you actually have that with a lot of your books. Like you, like you've written a kid's counterpoint. And so as a family, you can kind of be working through these things together. So this is a lie. You don't know. You believe how to find it, fight it, and to live free. One of the things you said, because you've talked about AA several times, you said you had a friend who is battling addiction who said to you, how blessed am I to need God like I do? How blessed am I to know that God has rescued me from the darkest pit? It's a good perspective. It's a good perspective.
- [37:30]
Jenny Allen
God love that friend. I. I just think we are. We're so afraid to struggle and so much of the goodness of life comes through that, right through what we're struggling with and the connection we want, the healing we want.
- [37:47]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [37:47]
Jenny Allen
I hope that's one thing people take away from this is just freedom to, to be in process. You know that, that there's not. That's this arrival point.
- [37:58]
Jenny Ert
Yeah, absolutely. When I was a kid, my grandpa had a room where he took apart all sorts of electronics. Seeing all the parts everywhere is so exciting. Today, as a parent trying to raise kids in a world of screens, I think about how exciting hands on learning can be. It can feel exhausting trying to offer something more compelling than a device. And that is why Kiwico has been such a gift. We chose one of their science and engineering crates, and the projects we build together turned our kitchen table into a mini innovation lab. There were moments of frustration and that's actually what I love most. My child had to think, adjust, try again. And when it finally clicked, pure pride. It felt different from other activities because it wasn't passive. It required creativity and persistence. And I didn't have to do research, source supplies, or plan a thing. It just arrived at our door ready to go. Kiwico makes it easy to build skills over time. Robotics, engineering, art techniques, all while kids are having fun. And there's no commitment. So you can pause or cancel anytime. We're already looking forward to our next crate. I love giving my kids opportunities to discover what they're capable of. And honestly, these make incredible gifts too. Tinker. Create and innovate with Kiwico. Get up to 50 off your first monthly crate at kiwico.com code 1000 hours. That's up to 50 off your first crate at k-I w I c o.com code 1000 hours. Panda Crate is an exception. C site for details. Spring has a way of filling up the calendar quickly. Field trip, sports, travel, co OP which are all good things, but they can make it challenging to keep curriculum learning consistent. March is really about maintaining momentum while life gets busy. That's why having a flexible, organized learning tool can make such a difference in the final stretch of the homeschool year. I Excel is designed to fit into your routine, not complicated. IXL is an award winning online learning platform offering interactive practice in math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It adapts to each child's level, keeps them motivated and gives parents clear visibility into progress. What I especially appreciate this time of year is how simple and time saving it is. Everything is organized by grade and subject, so you can jump right into exactly what your child needs. Whether that's reinforcing a concept before testing or confidently moving ahead. The clear explanations and visible progress markers help kids stay encouraged as they work toward year end goals. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours. Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there and at the best price. I just read a book recently where the, the guy was saying, and it was about anxiety and he said he would say to himself, I am safe in this moment. And he was like, and I am, you know, if I wake up in the middle of the night, he's like, it is true that in this exact moment I am safe. And I thought that that's pretty beautiful. Okay, so one of the things you also talk about in this book, it's called the lie you don't know you believe is spiritual warfare. So you say this. You and I live in a world where two realms overlap, the visible and the invisible. You eat breakfast, you fold laundry, you send texts. And all the while a spiritual war rages around you. Can you talk about, I thought was really interesting, the angel part. Like we need a stronger angel.
- [41:10]
Jenny Allen
Yeah, I know, that freaked me out. So yeah, I'll tell the story. So we're praying with my, with a good friend and other people are there and my sister, it was at my sister's house and a friend is there and, and then she's invited, my sister's invited this boat up, awesome spiritual guy named John and his wife Stacy. And so they're there and all of these things come up with them and they're like, let's pray for your friend. And so we're praying for my friend and I as we're praying for her. He, when we finish, it was really powerful. And when we finish, he looks at me and he was like, this is what he said, totally out of the blue. He doesn't know a lot about me. He knew some of what I do, but he looked at me and said, your angels are really tired. I was like, I did not see that coming. And that sounds terrifying. Like, if I have angels and they're tired, I'm like, what happens when they kaput? You know? I'm like, I'm so confused. I'm just. Just. I think it's hysterical. I. I honestly, like, even then I was like, laughing. I was like, are you joking? Like, are you being serious? And he was very serious. And he was like, we need to pray you up some, like, stronger angels. And I was like, okay. And you gotta understand, guys, I'm. I am a believer.
- [42:38]
Jenny Ert
I.
- [42:39]
Jenny Allen
In Jesus. And I went to seminary. Like, I'm a very, like, devout, very trained, very equipped person, know my Bible very well. And he's like, busting every category I have in that moment. And I, you know, but. But when somebody says something to you like that and, like, willing to pray for that, you're like, heck, yeah. Like, I. I'll take it. Like, please, please pray that. And so he did. And. And I think my point in putting that specific story in the book was just. Just to show, like, there's a lot going on that we don't see. And I don't know what all that meant. And one day, you know, we will. We'll see it all. But. But for now, it's like, I don't know about all of it, but I can say there is a clear dark force at work in the world. And there is a clear. You know, for me, it is clear there is a God who loves us and wants good for us. And so that war. I just think even if. If someone listening is like, I don't know if I believe all that. I think. And bet you do feel it at times. Like, you do feel it at times. And so I would just say to lean into that and to say, God, if you are real, like, if. If this is true, if the Bible is true, would you make it clear to me? I have heard so many stories of people praying that simple prayer and the most wild things happening. So, you know, I would just start to pray it. And. Because if. If God is real, then you would want to know that, you know, and so that's what I would say. And then on the. The unseen parts, you know, we don't have to understand it all. I don't, I don't have to be able to diagnose everything and to just be able to pray. And, and so I, I do, I just pray a lot for. You know, I've been following this story with Savannah Guthrie, who is the Today show anchor, and her mother, I mean, she just, her mother is just hard, you know, And I, I, I, I don't know, you know, when this airs, like, where they'll be, we'll be in that story. But I just love that in moments you just wonder, like, how is Savannah? Like, her mother's been abducted and, and she sends out a message that just says, will you just pray? And, and I think that's, you know, that's, we can do that. We can all do that.
- [45:11]
Jenny Ert
So, yeah, I mean, I think, like, when you read a book and you can grab a little section of something, like, I could pray that my friend Danielle Cardes wrote this memoir and she had this like, little section in the book where she said, God, close every door we aren't meant to open. Please open doors no man can shut and protect my marriage and family. Like, that's a great.
- [45:31]
Jenny Allen
I want that, I want that.
- [45:33]
Jenny Ert
I'll take it. And yours was. So you could just grab this. Lee Strobel wrote a book last year called Seeing the Invisible. And it definitely opened my eyes to the angel conversation because he was like, ain't. And Lee Strobel is like the guy about evidence. You know, he's like, right. So it was a surprising book for him to write about. It was about spiritual warfare, the invisible realm. So, you know, he talked about like the, there's angels in the Bible mentioned so many times. So many times. It's not like a one off thing. So you wrote, our family have been in an extended battle, spiritually and physically. I mean, wave after wave of heaviness. So many close calls related to health. And then John, this is the, the friend that was over, said something I never heard before. There was a moment in Daniel when an angel gets outmatched by a demon and has to call in Michael. So I think we need to pray for, for these higher ranking angels. He said that in your family. This is your, this in yours.
- [46:30]
Jenny Allen
Oh, okay. I thought you were saying Lee said that too. Right. So that was. Right. So that was the evidence. I'm a theological person, so I'm like, john, what are you talking about? And he's like, I'll tell you. And he shows me in the Bible. I, I thought somebody else has was also thinking about these things.
- [46:46]
Jenny Ert
Sorry, sorry. It was a bad transition on my part.
- [46:49]
Jenny Allen
But I do believe that we are people who are.
- [46:55]
Jenny Ert
Yeah, I. I will say this.
- [46:57]
Jenny Allen
I. There was a time in my life that I felt like whatever was going to happen was going to happen. And I didn't pray like crazy. I pray like crazy now. I pray all the time. I pray all the time. It is not a set time at 8am or only a set time. I should say it is also all the time because I have seven seen the protection that comes. I have seen my son go to two doctors and they think he has colon cancer. And the third time he doesn't. I have. And we have laid hands on him and anointed him with oil and beg God. I have seen. And again, he doesn't always heal. But. But I've seen that happen. I have seen every part of my life falling apart. And the. The people come and pray over us and anoint our house and everything changes. Like, I just believe in it. I believe in it like I've never believed in it before. And I just. I pray all the time. And I think when it comes to understanding, like angels and demons, if. If we needed to understand it all, he would have given us more. But he gave us enough to know it's real. He gave us enough to know that we can call for help and have it, you know, and. And so, you know, I'm someone who just says ask. Why wouldn't I ask? Why wouldn't I? Why not?
- [48:17]
Jenny Ert
Why not pray that thing? Why not pray God close every door we aren't meant to open. Please open doors no man can shut and protect my marriage and family. Why wouldn't we pray?
- [48:24]
Jenny Allen
So simple.
- [48:25]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. Please have some higher ranking angels.
- [48:28]
Jenny Allen
Hey, that too. I'll take them.
- [48:30]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [48:30]
Jenny Allen
Hey, everybody's gonna be praying, praying for those angels right now.
- [48:34]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. So then you said John smiled and added God. So here's your prayer. Can be one sentence longer. May these angels stay with Jenny and her family as long as she lives. And I love that this was on page 20 of the book because you
- [48:47]
Jenny Allen
were like, this book got crazy quick. I went deep fast. I had to. I had to apologize for it. Like, I think I opened chapter two with like. So most authors would go, here. We're gonna go to this really deep place really fast.
- [49:01]
Jenny Ert
You know, we're kicking it off at the tired angels. Yeah.
- [49:05]
Jenny Allen
I just. Here was what I want. I wanted like a little shot because I wanted everybody to go. What if all these thoughts I think negatively about myself weren't just originating in myself. Like, what if they were planned and schemed and strategized against me? That makes you approach it like war rather than just accepting it. And I think so many of us, we just accept it and let it live there. And so that's kind of why I started so big and crazy and heavy, was just to. To make people. Just to shake people a little and go, what if. What if this is bigger than us? Like, what if this is. This isn't just your own little thoughts when you wake up in the morning. What if this is coming from, you know, dark plans for your life?
- [49:50]
Jenny Ert
Yes. That as you eat breakfast and fold laundry and send texts, all the while a spiritual war is raising. Is raging around. You talk about rescuing rats. Yeah.
- [50:02]
Jenny Allen
Well, so my. My kids love to rescue animals. I'm scared that we actually stole them from their parents more than we rescue them. But. But they would show up. They would show up with a shoe box of turtles or baby rabbits or baby squirrels. So we became friends with the animal shelter in Austin, Texas, where we lived at the time. And, and you know, that if you know anything about Austin, like, it's very, very animal friendly. Like, they. They're protecting trees and animals, animals everywhere. And. And so we show up with these squirrels that my little, you know, daughter had rescued. And we had been taking care of them, like, giving them, like, droplets of things. I don't even know what we did, but we figured we. We researched it and did what we needed to do. Get drive 45 minutes for these little squirrels to have, you know, care from the animal shelter that loves their animals. And the girl's mouth drops and it's like, like, ma', am, these aren't squirrels. These are rats. We have. We have been nursing and feeding baby rats in our house to. And even the animal shelter that loves every animal was like, we don't want your baby rats, you know, but that you found on the street. So all that to say, I think this is what it's like for us. Right? Like, we. We keep. We keep these lies. We think that they serve us. I think my daughter specifically didn't want me to take her lies from her because she thought, if I keep believing this and I'll try harder, then I'll work harder and then maybe finally I won't be so broken.
- [51:31]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [51:32]
Jenny Allen
And if you tell me that I'm just loved and that I am okay where I am, then I'll quit trying and that, I don't know, I might float out at sea and, like, never get out of bed, you know, I don't know what. What people fear, but I've been there where I just feel like if I say stop, you know, believing that I have to measure up, then I might just, like, give up. And. Yeah, and I would say there's a whole other beautiful motivation, you know, then. Then these lies, it's. It's love. Right?
- [52:04]
Jenny Ert
There's.
- [52:05]
Jenny Allen
There's something better and more beautiful. And so nursing them and keeping them and is not serving anyone. And we've got to, like, be honest about what they are and how they're hurting our lives.
- [52:19]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. It's like, we're sticking with the familiarity of it. So I think in this particular podcast in general, there may be parents listening that are like, yeah, when we're outside, that's what we're doing. We're rescuing birds and squirrels and turtles and all these animals. So I think that's a super relatable thing. Can you talk about this statement? You talked about you'd broken your foot? And I actually loved this part of the book. Broke your foot. So you're like, at the ymca, you know, you're doing a little bit of whatever, weight machines, but your foot's broken, so you're not like, running, probably, or like, doing the stair climber.
- [52:50]
Jenny Allen
Nothing.
- [52:50]
Jenny Ert
Yeah, not, you know, the bike, whatever. You know, the peloton or whatever they're called. And you're like, you know, I did a little bit the ynca. I go to Journal a little bit. I'm at the coffee shop. I'm reading a little bit of my Bible. And you wrote, that's it. That's all I can do. I thought, gosh, that's such a big statement. Like, I don't feel like we ever. I don't. Like, I'm not the type of person that's like, I'll just do that because that's all I can do. It's like, you're so pushed to, like, do more.
- [53:17]
Jenny Allen
I know. It's such a. It's such a culture of. I mean, it's so funny. Even just, like, what you're supposed to eat changes every year, month, you know, like, what you can't eat. I'm like, oh, yeah, now. I watched a reel the other day was like, we're eating too much protein. And I'm like, oh, gosh, okay. And I'm like, oh, no. What is that about? You know? So it's just. It's like, we keep up. We can't. We can't do it. And. And I just think. I think freedom for me and surrendered for me has looked like accepting exactly what I can do and not feeling. And feeling really proud of that. Right. Like, I had to feel really proud that I would even show up the Y. And by the way, I didn't every day, not even close, but two times a week and do a few little weight machines. Like, that was winning for me. And. And I am, you know, today I did Pilates, and that is awesome. Like, it's so cute after I work out, which, again, you've got to understand, there's whole months that I don't work out at all. So don't, like, think that I'm, like, very driven workout person. But. But, like, today and often I will leave a class or I'll leave the Y and just say, hey, you know, call my husband. He'll be like, I'm so proud of you. Oh, he's just. He's like, I'm so proud you do that. And he's not someone that cares if I work out, by the way, at all. There's no pressure, but he knows, like, he's just. It feels good. It just feels good to be, like, celebrate it. You know, like, yeah, I did something good rather than I could have done more or I could have done it three times this week instead of one, or just. I think we just live in this world where we are exhausted by what could have been rather than, yeah, celebrating what is. You know, you have the phrasing in
- [55:03]
Jenny Ert
here, the saying, I should, I should, I should, I should. Yeah, that's on page 64. Yeah. I just. I'm like, could I adopt the phrase? That's all I can do? I mean, I think about in terms of, like, you know, you got kids at home, and you're, like, getting asked to volunteer all the time. I was like, can someone make buttons for the play performance? Every kid needs a button if you have a job.
- [55:22]
Jenny Allen
Yeah, it's like, oh, gosh. Yeah.
- [55:24]
Jenny Ert
Like, I mean, does of that all.
- [55:25]
Jenny Allen
All of it.
- [55:26]
Jenny Ert
And you're like, I should. I should make the buttons. But then you're like, I should. You know, I'm like, I gotta throw a Valentine's party. You know, this is gonna come out after Valentine's Day. But, you know, you're like, I should. I should do. And you're like, oh, I like the phrase, though. That's all I can do. That's. That's it. That's all I can do.
- [55:43]
Jenny Allen
I know. Okay, Jenny, what your podcast is called 1000 Hours Outside. I love it so much the name of it. Where did that come from for you? Because that makes me think of. Well, it came from conversation.
- [55:56]
Jenny Ert
It came from being a crummy mom. You know, I really struggled when our kids were little. Like, how do I manage all these kids? Like, my husband's gone for work, and I'm, like, drowning, and everyone's crying and nursing and, you know, they're all in diapers. And I was striving. I was like, okay, we're gonna go to the Montessori Building Blocks class, and then we're gonna go to swim lessons, and then we're gonna. You know, we're gonna go to the library program, and we're gonna do all this enrichment. And I was, like, dragging these little everywhere and was drowning.
- [56:26]
Jenny Allen
Wow.
- [56:27]
Jenny Ert
And a friend of mine said, charlotte Mason says that. And she was from the 1800s, but this woman I didn't know, she was from the 1800s. And my friend.
- [56:34]
Jenny Allen
Okay, first of all, I love that you're like. This friend of mine said, actually, she's dead, but.
- [56:38]
Jenny Ert
Well, my friend isn't dead, but Charlotte Mason is dead.
- [56:40]
Jenny Allen
Okay. I was like, your friend Charlotte Mason. I was loving that. I was like, I feel like you are a reader and you become friends with your books.
- [56:48]
Jenny Ert
And I'm like, okay, all right, so this is actually. Let me clarify. Charlotte Mason is not my friend because she's dead. And we were never friends because she's from the 1800s. But she had. She has all these, like, volumes about parenting and child rearing. Anyway, so she said that kids should be outside for four to six hours a day whenever the weather's tolerable. Obviously, this is, like, a different time period, but there's a lot of, like, echoing of extended periods of time for kids outside. And I was like, that's a really dumb idea. Like, why would we ever go outside for four hours? What are the kids going to do? They're just going to complain that they're bored the whole time. And, you know when you're in those early years of parenting and you're like, I really need some friends. So I was like, I think this is a stupid idea, but I'm just gonna act like it's not, and I'm gonna go. And so we went to this park in 2000. It was in 2011, and I had three little kids. Like, they were three. One and a baby. And we're going to this park from nine in the morning till one in the afternoon. And it changed my whole life, Jenny. Because it was the first good day I had as a mom.
- [57:52]
Jenny Allen
I'm so glad I asked you that. I'm. Chills. That's so beautiful.
- [57:56]
Jenny Ert
I never had a good day as a mom. And it was just because I got to surrender. I got to surrender. And God's creation provides what kids need for growth and development. That's what I've learned over the years. And also it provides what I need as a human being, you know?
- [58:17]
Jenny Allen
So beautiful. I'm so glad I asked you that. That's working and how relevant that is to what we're talking about. Right. Like.
- [58:23]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [58:24]
Jenny Allen
I mean, you believed you were a terrible mom. That's ridiculous. And you were driving so hard, and it's just. You were. You were in a failed system. Right. You were in a. And I think that's how all of us, we find ourselves in a failed system. We can't do it.
- [58:36]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [58:37]
Jenny Allen
We just can't.
- [58:37]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. A failed system. And without enough knowledge, not enough knowledge to know, like, I don't have to control every aspect of their development, that kids grow and thrive. Life, you know, when they're in God's environment.
- [58:49]
Jenny Allen
Pretty resilient. Yeah.
- [58:50]
Jenny Ert
And it's good for me, too. So I just.
- [58:53]
Jenny Allen
That's beautiful. That's amazing.
- [58:56]
Jenny Ert
And it fits right along with the book. The lie you don't know. You believe. It's just about. The whole thing really is about freedom.
- [59:03]
Jenny Allen
Yeah.
- [59:04]
Jenny Ert
And. And this letting go.
- [59:05]
Jenny Allen
So the book is wonderful, Jenny. What do you think your lie is? Do you know?
- [59:10]
Jenny Ert
Well, probably I think mine would be the. The helpless one.
- [59:13]
Jenny Allen
Really?
- [59:14]
Jenny Ert
Yeah.
- [59:15]
Jenny Allen
Yeah.
- [59:16]
Jenny Ert
I think I didn't take the quiz partially because the QR code is not in the arc.
- [59:23]
Jenny Allen
It's just a blank.
- [59:24]
Jenny Ert
I think so. Or maybe it actually isn't here sometimes. No, it actually isn't here sometimes. They're not. But I was like, oh, I didn't actually take it. I should.
- [59:32]
Jenny Allen
That's okay.
- [59:34]
Jenny Ert
I think I would have been. You know, I. Over the years, I have let a lot go, and it's been circumstantial, substantial, and I feel like that is a grace of God.
- [59:43]
Jenny Allen
Yeah.
- [59:44]
Jenny Ert
Why?
- [59:44]
Jenny Allen
Because if you look at that story of how you named your podcast, it was like you were trying to control that your kids would turn out.
- [59:50]
Jenny Ert
Yes, yes, absolutely. It was a whole thing of control and really about getting outdoors and not being the one that is orchestrating everything is a letting go. You know, we've got five kids. They were born in eight years. I'm like, this just been chaos the whole time. Like, my home is messy. People come over to Our house, and it's messy and like. Like, you know, it's just. I can't. It's exactly what you said. That's all I can do,
- [60:16]
Jenny Allen
Girl, that's. That's good. I'm glad you got a line out of that thing. You need that line.
- [60:21]
Jenny Ert
We have people over recently. I can't remember what it was for. And I was, like, sitting on our couch and that we have, like, this. This tv, you know, like a lot of people do. And under the tv, like, stand. It was just like, dog hair and dust. But I could only see it from this one place that I was sitting, and I was like, but that's all I can do.
- [60:42]
Jenny Allen
And you're not alone in that. That's for certain.
- [60:46]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. And I think it kind of comes back to, you know, biblically, that in our weakness, he is strong. And you talk in the book about humility. If we could wrap it up here. I actually really loved this. I never heard anybody say this, so you're bringing it up from someone else's book, but they said humility. I actually think this is maybe one of the biggest keys, because when you surrender, I think that you have to be humble or it forces you to be humble or you end up being humble.
- [61:14]
Jenny Allen
It ends up. Yeah, you end up. Yeah, it's a. Yeah, it happens. Yeah.
- [61:20]
Jenny Ert
So it's. Humility was the primary characteristic of Jesus. Wow. And that's sort of the end of the line there, right? When you give it up, when you stop trying to control. You taught.
- [61:31]
Jenny Allen
You mean.
- [61:32]
Jenny Ert
You talked in the book about, like, I spoke at this one event, and I tried to. Tried. I risked this thing, and it fell flat, and I was.
- [61:38]
Jenny Allen
I was embarrassed, and I hurt somebody in the process. Yeah.
- [61:42]
Jenny Ert
Oh, you're like, I'm awful.
- [61:43]
Jenny Allen
And. Yeah, yeah.
- [61:46]
Jenny Ert
But at the end of that is a humility. And how interesting that humility. This person says humility was the primary characteristic of Jesus. Yeah, I never heard anything like that before.
- [61:57]
Jenny Allen
He. He is. I mean, he. He laid down his Godness to die, you know, And. And I just think we are. And he. Again, that's a bad statement because he did not ever quit being God, but he laid down the privileges that he had because he was God to die for us. And so, yeah, I don't know that there's a more humble thing you can
- [62:22]
Jenny Ert
do, which was a surrender.
- [62:25]
Jenny Allen
Exactly. It's like we're called to just. Just exhale, you know, today, for everybody listening, it's like, just breathe in, breathe out. You're okay. That. That story and that that message in your head that you've heard for so long isn't even true. And you get to be loved, you get to be safe, you get to be known and, and not hit all the marks, you know?
- [62:50]
Jenny Ert
Yeah. Jenny, what a book. The lie you don't know you believe. How to find it, fight it, and live free. So important for parents.
- [62:56]
Jenny Allen
Parents.
- [62:56]
Jenny Ert
So important for parents. This is being passed down to our kids whether we know it or not. New York Times, three times New York Times best selling author, over 4 million books sold. Founder of if Gathering and Gather 25. This book is about blending biblical wisdom, neuroscience and lived experience. Jenny Allen, what a book. Thank you so much for being here.
- [63:16]
Jenny Allen
Oh, thanks for having me, girl. Get outside everybody. That's my takeaway.
- [63:23]
Jenny Ert
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- [63:27]
Jenny Allen
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- [63:31]
Jenny Ert
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- [63:33]
Jenny Allen
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- [63:35]
Jenny Ert
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Jenny Allen
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- [63:41]
Jenny Ert
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- [63:46]
Jenny Allen
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