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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 735: Walking a Road With Very Few Footprints | Amanda Lancaster, A Time to Be Born
00:57:52
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ert. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I'm so excited for today's guest. We had dinner together. We sat together for this really special event. It was a Homemakers conference and we were in Homestead Heritage in Waco, the Waco, Texas area. And I love sitting next to you at dinner. Amanda Lancaster. She is an author, a midwife, a mother, and all the other things that go along with being in a beautiful community. Amanda, welcome.
- [00:29]
B
Thank you. It's good to see you again.
- [00:32]
A
So I read your beautiful memoir and this is one that's great to read if you're interested in anything. Midwifery, home birth and then also just like the where life is centered around home, it's called the Time to Be Born. One Midwife's witness to the Miracle of life in Christian Community. So the book is beautiful, a total page turner and lots of topics you covered in there. Obviously you're covering mothering, but it's like your whole journey to becoming a midwife, you're covering living in this Christian community where there are no televisions, which was really interesting for me to see and interesting to see the, you know, how would that play out? And you're like, well, people just have a lot more time and there's a different depth there. So I would love if you would kick us off with this thought of exiting from modern day institutions. So there's this question in the book that says, are we truly free if we have no say over our children's education or even the food on their table? And I think that's a really deep question. You've exited from, you know, this sort of typical birth situation. You know, you're so you're home birthing and your homeschooling is. This is a community where you're growing a lot of your own food farm to table. Even the chips at the dinner, they were like tortilla chips, Amanda, but they were made from the corn that they had grown and ground. I was like, I didn't even know you could do that. And even, even really pulling away from media institutions as well. Can you talk about that as sort of a foundation for life?
- [02:09]
B
Yes. And I can't really tell my story apart from telling my parents story a little bit, because this all really started before I was born. And I think there was kind of a movement in the 60s and 70s. A lot of people felt, what are we here for and what are we doing? You know, and they just were questioning a lot of things in the society, in the culture. And my parents were among those. And they. They just had the question. They were living in New York City at that time. It was kind of a little mission. And they just had the question when they went to enroll my older bro other in school, is this where we want to take him? Is this going to reinforce our values of family and love and togetherness? And. And they. They couldn't say yes to that question. And so I think it really started with questioning where my brother was going to school in terms of our lifestyle change. And. And they. They decided we're going to do a homeschool. And so they started homeschooling my brother. And it led to a lot of questions of what about our food? We have absolutely no say so over our food. What if downtown New York City, Manhattan, suddenly can't get the ships, can't get the food? What happens? Are we really being responsible with our lives? And even beyond that, I think they wanted to participate in the things that were essential to life. They felt like we want to be a part of this. You know, this was back in an era when people were having, you know, my grandmother, the way all of her babies were born is that they went into etherland and they were knocked out. Their husbands never saw any of the children born. They didn't know what happened. And they wake up in this twilight zone and. And there's a baby there. And my mom's generation was just saying, hey, I want to see this happen. I want to know what my body can do. I want to know my baby's first breath, first moment. And it was deeply tied to their Christian roots in that God gave life. God made us to do this. And we're here to take responsibility for the earth that he gave us and to care for it, to care for the children he gave us, to care for all of it. And. And it began kind of an exodus, I might say. So that's where it all started. And they went from living in New York City to moving out our entire church, actually. We had a. They had a small church of about a hundred people, and they all moved and. And just said, let's try this. Let's. Let's learn what it means to. To grow our own food, to grow our. Our raise our own children, to educate them, and to really participate in essentials of life. And so that is the way I grew up. And that gives just a little background,
- [05:20]
A
which is the normal way that it was for a very long time. For a very, very long time. I just read a book recently that the compulsory education laws weren't complete until 1913 or around there. So it's just been over 100 years, that's all. And the original compulsory school laws were like 12 weeks of school from ages 8 to 14. And that was all that it was. So if you look at how much that's changed in the last 100 little, you know, little over 100 years, the fact that, you know, you can choose basically to not be an active participant in your life is new.
- [05:56]
B
Yes.
- [05:57]
A
So I, I like how you frame this. You know, if you really look at where we're at now, decades later, after the 60s, because I think in the, in the school system in the 60s, there was a lot more freedom. The teachers had a lot of autonomy, the GMOs were not in the food supply yet. So I mean, 50 years later they're like, okay, you know, this has gotten a lot worse. Look at the, you know, look at media. You know, are we going to be an active participant in how we spend our time or is it going to get sucked up, you know, by all of these different companies that want all our attention so that they can earn more money? So it's kind of like we're living in etherland in a lot of different ways.
- [06:32]
B
Exactly.
- [06:33]
A
And I was able to come because of this Homemakers conference and spend time in your community and it was so just delightful and it was interesting. I mean, it was really an eye opening. I told your son in law because I got to stay with your daughter and son in law. And then I had. Isaac was on the podcast and I got to spend time with Isaac's mom too. Everyone's there.
- [06:54]
B
Yes.
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A
But just to see what is it like when 0% of your time is going to television watching and you're like, well, these kids are carving cellos out of blocks of wood and you know, they have all of these different skill sets. So it was a really life changing experience for me. And I love framing this about, you know, can, can we pull back from these institutional, these institutional things that really run our lives. So the main focus in this one is home birth, if we're talking about pulling back from institutions. But obviously you homeschool. Tell us a little bit about your family. You've got a lot of kids.
- [07:28]
B
Yes, So I have eight kids and we actually had our first seven in 14 years. And so an average of two years AP and then we thought we were done. I had always wanted eight actually, but it just wasn't happening. And then nine years later, I Got another one. So I have a 4 year old now that I'm raising and my grandchildren are now coming right along with him.
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A
Yeah, right, yeah, he's like an uncle, but he's the same age as his nephew.
- [07:58]
B
Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I have two girls and six boys. All right.
- [08:04]
A
And yeah, I got to meet Helen while I was there and she is unbelievably talented. I mean, that girl can sing, she plays all sorts of instruments. I mean, it was an incredible thing. And I got to spend some time with your grandsons in the, the older one because he was, you know, talking and walking's like so bright and creative. It's just a really, like I said, a life changing experience. I love to talk about this, the birth, the Joe. I had some home births and actually that was really a turning point in my life. You know, I'd had two hospital births and then in cesarean sections at the hospital actually, and then switched to a midwife. And that was hard, but also was very life changing. It was, I didn't really realize how life changing it would be to be the participant, you know, I mean, I feel like I learned lessons in my birth that stuck with me, you know, they will for the rest of my life. So you have delivered well over 500 babies. And one of the things that I really noticed throughout your book, which is called the Time to Be Born, is that not only are these women active participants in their, in their labor, but there's a lot of community surrounding them both, you know, pre and post. And so I would love if you talked about this story that you told in A Time to Be Born where you're, you've had your first baby, you're floundering with nursing, which is such a common story. Right, right. Like having a hard time. I have a hard time. You're like, well, your mom somewhere else. You know, the people that you normal normally would ask aren't available and then a friend just shows up at your door.
- [09:34]
B
Yes. Yeah. So I, I, my, my grandmother had actually fallen and had an injury, so my mom had to leave town and I had my first baby. And you know, I was the second of 10 kids, so I thought I knew everything. Ha ha. And so I, I, this breastfeeding thing was, was a big deal and I, I just, I felt like my baby was crying all the time and I was so full miserable. But I kept telling myself, tough it out, tough it out. You know, this is what it's like. Well, so then there was a knock on my door one morning and One of my mom's friends actually showed up and said, I had a dream last night that your baby was hungry and you were crying. And I just, I burst into tears. I was so overwhelmed. And she sat down with me for hours and helped me and taught me how to pump and how to get a better latch and, and I just. The first time my baby breastfed fully that day, I knew we hadn't been doing it. And my baby was hungry and I cried because of that. But I also was just so overwhelmed that someone would come and take that time and really help me when my mom was out of town. And I think that's been the story of my life is just seeing that ethic of love your neighbor as yourself actually lived out. We really believe he meant it when he said it was the second commandment. And so people have done that for me. And that's how I feel about my midwifery is I have to, I have to give this experience to other women because it's been given to me and I saw it given to my mom, you know.
- [11:20]
A
Yeah, I just thought when I read that part of your book, I like, I got chills, you know, that Carla, she just appears here. She, she, you know, she said, there she is, she's at the door. And she said, you know, are you having difficulties? And I'm here to help. And you know, I just think so many women are alone. They're alone, they, they don't have anybody to call, let alone someone that's just going to show up at their door. And you told, you tell kind of a lot of stories like this. We could hit a couple other ones. There's one where you're like, you know, it's like two babies are coming at once and you have a baby, you know, you've got a three week old, like, someone's got to give my baby and who can give me my baby. There's one where you have into town, you're like, just get the meat out to thaw. You know, here comes the baby you're talking about. Babies come when they come. So. So I don't know either of those would be great. They're both in the book A Time to Be Born, just about how you really get the sense that you couldn't do this without this surrounding community that not only is in, invested in what's going on with everyone, but also is right there.
- [12:24]
B
Exactly. Well, and that was in many ways my main goal in writing the book is I wanted to paint a picture of the community life. I grew up in through the lens of my midwifery and obviously that's what I do. But I think the community element comes in in every sphere of life and the midwifery is just a great illustrator. So that was my goal. Let's tell the story. And so, yeah, in these stories that there's remind me the first one you don't. You wanted me to tell.
- [12:57]
A
Well, there, there was one where you're. There was like two babies coming at this, you know, similar times.
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B
Oh yeah.
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A
You're like, I met this baby. You know, you kind of. That's the big question. You always have to like, if you're a midwife, you're like, well, what happens if two babies are being born at the same time? So you're talking about how. Well, first of all, there's a lot of people to call. You had started off by providing postpartum care. So, you know, there's someone who's going to be able to come right after the baby's born. There's just a lot of trust, there's handoff. But at the same time, not only are there babies coming, and this happens throughout the book where you're like, I'm delivering a baby and I'm eight months pregnant myself.
- [13:34]
B
Or
- [13:37]
A
one was. Yeah, you're, you know, you're going from one birth to the other and you have your own 3 week old and you're like, someone get, can someone get my baby?
- [13:47]
B
Yes. Yeah. So what happened? I get the call in the night from one lady, let's say Lady A. And she. Because they're. All the names are changed in the book except for a couple who gave permission. But. So she calls and says, I think I'm in labor. And I get up there and it's oh, two to three centimeters. So it's early stuff. And while I'm actually doing the exam, my phone rings in my pocket and it's the father of the second lady. And I know when the father calls, we are needing to hurry. And so, so I had left my baby asleep in the cradle. He had just breastfed. He was three weeks old. And I had left my baby sleep in the cradle. It's bitter cold outside. So I zoom over to the Lady B's house and sure enough, she is about to deliver. So he got through that birth and I called my trusty assistant and close friend who really had just started into midwifery just to help me and to be there and ended up going all the way through and getting her certification as well. Anyway, so she, she's There, and we do. You know, I deliver the baby, and we're cleaning up the baby, and suddenly my phone rings in my pocket again, and it's lady, a husband note. Just like. He's like, amanda, I don't know if this is it, but she is insisting that you come. And I thought. I had that gut feeling that I've learned to listen to. And so I turned to my assistant Hannah, again and said, have you got this, do you think? Because I'm getting another call. She's like, go. So I left, and I just get to the crossroads at the end of their driveway, and my. My phone rings again, and it's my husband. And he says, the baby is desperate for you. So he meets me there, and with my baby all around, the whole car seat, it's all that.
- [15:49]
A
All the dads are calling,
- [15:53]
B
the whole car seat's wrapped in a blanket all the way to the second house, my baby is just screaming. And I'm like, oh, God, what am I gonna do? So I got there and we. I mean, she was about to deliver. It was so obvious. And so her. Her doula, and also a friend of ours, and this. She was in unofficially a doula at the time. She did go on to become an official doula, but she was just there as a friend. And she's like, can I help anything? And I said, yes, go get my baby. He's. Make him stop crying. Because I could not think, you know, with that going on, and he was hungry. So we delivered the baby. And actually, the only people there, my. My other assistant never made it. And it was that girl holding my baby and the husband and I. And I delivered that baby in my fancy wool coat that I had inherited from my grandmother, because I didn't even have time to take my coat off. But, yeah, it's just. This is what we feel like. You know, everybody talks about sustainability, sustainable food and. And. And all that, but what we're really concerned about is sustainable relationships, right? Where are the relationships that are going to be there without ending in brokenness, without ending in divorce? And even beyond that, the generations. It's like we ride this seesaw where one generation does one thing, and then they say, oh, I'm not going to do it the way my parents did it, probably because they see real problems, and so they. The seesaw goes down and they try something else, and then the next generation, it's just the same thing. And it's like there's no continuity that gets you off the seesaw and onto the journey. And so what we have to recognize is my parents were pioneers. Of course they made mistakes. That's what pioneering is all about. Of course there's things that we have to do different, but we've got to stay connected so that we actually move forward in this journey. And we don't keep just riding the seesaw or the circle. But there's a sustainable generation. The generations carry the wisdom from one to the next. And I feel like that's been our goal, is we need sustainable relationships. We need generations that don't start over, but that take the baton and run forward. And that's, that's what we want to give our kids. That's what I feel like my parents did so beautifully, giving me.
- [18:33]
A
Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people that are listening and even myself included, you know, I talk about this a lot with my own midwife. Like, you know, there's just so much missing knowledge. It's like, there's just, it's been lost, you know, just in a few generations. And, you know, I think for my own self, it's like, you know, you talk about this too. It's like going to the midwife. It's like, my kids got this rash. My friend's kid has this rash. I mean, my friend's friend's friend's sister's kid has this rash. And we're like texting the midwife because there's just this, this generational knowledge that has been lost and. And you're like, who can help me? Yes, I think that's such a question that so many women ask, especially when they hit this mud. These motherhood stages is like, who can help me? And they just, maybe they don't have one. We're turning to the Internet, you know, that type of thing. 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- [23:25]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [23:27]
A
Up in the middle of the night, juggling your own children, delivering babies at 8 months pregnant. Can you talk about that part of it?
- [23:35]
B
Yes. Well, yeah, I, it's. It is a calling that, that definitely takes sacrifice. You okay? Am I going to get this? It's a lot of nights up. It's a lot of hours away from your kids. And honestly, it would be totally impossible for me to do without the community and really be the kind of mother that I need to be. Because every time that I have gone to a birth, someone has brought me a meal for my whole family. That's a lot of people. Yeah, that's nearly 600 times.
- [24:15]
A
And it's interesting. Interesting because, you know, it's like I'm out of the stage where my friends are having babies. Like I'm hitting the stage where people are starting to have grandbabies. But you like in those seasons where you're taking meals to new moms and you're like, oh, you know, if they've got six other kids, that's really different than if this is their first or their second. So not only are people bringing food, this shows up actually in, in your book quite a bit where the mom has the baby, and then people are bringing all sorts of fruits and foods. And, you know, everyone's kind of coming together to feed the new mom and her family. But they're. But they're also taking care of your family as the midwife.
- [24:50]
B
Exactly. And. And there's a young girl, like, right now even, there's a young girl who. She just graduated a year and a half ago, I think, and she. She's interested in midwear free. She said, I'm not quite ready to begin the certification process, but that's in my future, I think. And so I. In the meantime, I'd like to get closer to you. And so I want to do your ironing. And so she wants to serve me so that she can learn. And, And. And also so that I can do what I'm doing. And so, you know, I rarely do ironing. And whenever there's a birth, somebody has made me a meal. And let me just give you an example of a story that still gets to my heart. But I. I had come home from a birth one time, and. And I think it was actually the next day because there was no meal that came that day. But we had company coming, and I was. I was cooking this meal and getting all ready for company. And, you know, you're a little harried and a little fragmented after. After a birth, and especially all my kids were little, and I went to make the meal. And right toward the end of the process, I realized I had forgotten to put the bread on to rise to. To make bread. And, you know, you don't hurry bread up, especially sourdough. It's like, oh, yeah, I should have done that a long time ago. Yeah, Back yesterday when I was at the birth. And I was. Was so upset because I felt like this meal needed bread. And Dan got home from work, and I said, I forgot the bread. The meal is ruined. I said, the meal is ruined. I mean, what's this meal without homemade bread? I think it was corned beef. And. And he said, oh, honey, it's gonna be okay. And I just said, it's not gonna be okay. I forgot the bread. Well, we are standing there talking, and there's a knock on the door, and a friend of mine, who I'm actually not even super close to, is standing at the door with a basket, and she says, this is crazy. Yes, I know I'm crazy. But I was baking bread, and I just had the strongest feeling like I was supposed to bring you some rolls. And there she was with a basket full of Rolls. And I think when you. When you're not distracted by technology, you're not on the TV and the screens all the time, and you are intertwined with your neighbors, the earth, hopefully God, you actually tune into these things and you sense the needs and others. And we try to cultivate that, to believe that we actually could be there for someone and to believe others will be there for us. And to me, it's just some what of a small thing, but I've never forgotten that. That happened nearly 20 years ago now, so. Wow.
- [27:42]
A
And that one then didn't. I'm thinking, like, maybe this happened last week because it's not in the book. It just goes to show how many of those, like, little miracles of community have happened in your life, because that's a great start over here. Crying. Yeah, but it's just one of so many. Yes, the book is really heartwarming. A time to be born. At what point did you decide amidst all the things that you're doing? You're a grandmother, you've got all these kids, you're. You're mid. You know, you're still midwifeing, delivering all these babies, apprenticing, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna write a book.
- [28:17]
B
Yes. Well, I. I have felt I would write a book ever since I've been a midwife. I. I love to write. As a kid, my dad was a writer, and we. We did family writing workshops, we called it. So he would love for us all to sit down together a couple times a week. And. And. And he would read us some really good writing. Wendell Berry or something like that, and Tolstoy. I mean, we read everything. And then he would say, okay, let's see who can write that good, you know, And. And we would write about our stories, what we'd done. We'd write about. He. He'd tell us, you know, the mundane has some of the most incredible stories in it. Just. Just your dinner table. And so we wrote that was something we did as a family. And so it was in my heart, always a love for it. And then when I started participating in births and just seeing people when they think they're at their weakest and they're really in that transparency at their strongest. You see that. You see the core of who people are and who could. Who they could be. You know, their love for each other, husbands and wives, their love for their. Their babies. You see it at it. It's gold. It's refinement, that. The refinement of pain. It really reveals something I feel so honored to see that. I just feel like, oh, God, people have got to know what a jewel this person is. So I wrote down a lot of stories along the way in the hope that someday I would put. Make a book. And so I had them, but I never, ever brought it to completion. And honestly, it was a bit of my first experience with bad publicity in social media that somebody was doing. And I was like, you know, about our church. You know, we're different, we're unique. And whenever you're not part of the mainstream, people fear it and they write yucky things about you. And so I thought, oh, no, that's. That's a real shame that someone else is telling the story before we've gotten to. So I started pulling out the stories and putting them together. I said that it's not right that people hear that and not know the truth. And. And so I started telling the story.
- [30:36]
A
Oh, it's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful book. A Time To Be Born, it's called. So people can get this wherever. Well, I always. I always say wherever you get your books, but I'm like, normally Amazon, that's where my books are. I'm like, they're not actually in stores. You would think they would be, but they're not. So. So you also then, because this is a, like a memoir, it's just a really beautiful telling of your story. You include your earlier years where you're delivering animals, and this midwifery thing is not even on your radar because, you know your mom does it, but you're like, that's her thing. And you just start to have these little conversations, little situations here and there where people are like, you know what? You know, it seems like you'd be really good at this. Or you have midwife hands, or, you know, you're like, well, I think I have piano hands. And they're like, you have midwife hands. So all of that, you know, starting with delivering these animals, lambing, and you say people had started to call me when something wasn't going right, and now this becomes this big community. 1. One thing that you told me in person that I thought was special and you can touch on in the book, too, is that you started to have your prenatal appointments where the women could be kind of together, you know, come in for the morning. Obviously they have their appointment individually, but they can kind of of mingle with each other and start to build community before the baby even comes.
- [31:53]
B
Yes, yes. Well, I used to just go for every appointment. I went house to house to each of the mom's houses. Well, it got to be a lot. I mean, it was like, okay, this is going to take over my life, and I'm a homeschooling mom, and I needed to keep the prenatals on Saturdays. And so when we had opportunity to build a home, we decided to build a guest apartment that would kind of double as a midwifery suite, we call it, or a prenatal room. And so that's actually where I am in right now. It's attached to my house. It's a little quieter. And we did that. But I didn't want to lose anything of that. That close feeling, so I was just looking. What. What could it be here that may be different than when I went from house to house? And so I really felt like it needs to be social and that if moms are sitting together and talking, then they can share wisdom and they can tell their own experiences and. And. And it could just really serve a lot of purposes. So I started having it here. And we. Every Saturday morning, I. We have a big breakfast and. And I just put it all out on the counter and people can come and go and eat. And. And if we're. One checkup is taking longer than another, they're not going to feel like I'm waiting and waiting. And so I have a massage therapist who sits and has a little massage chair here, and they can get a massage and tea and treats and lots of books about babies and my time to be born book. And they can just enjoy each other and enjoy community and enjoy food. And they love it. I mean, busy moms, they like a morning off with other ladies. And it really has become a special social occasion. And so then we'll do prenatal exams all morning, and then in the afternoon, I will often. Usually I'll teach. Teach my students and things. I'm a certified preceptor as well, so I do that. Yeah. And so that it's. It's really fun. It's ladies Saturday.
- [34:03]
A
Yeah. And how special. How special, because then you're all pregnant at the same time, so then you're building these relationships. You're gonna have be raising your babies at the same time.
- [34:12]
B
Time.
- [34:12]
A
What. What a thing. What a thing. So there's a lot in here about midwifery, a lot about home births, a lot about your journey to get to there, and also like your continued education throughout the process. You become a paramedic, you get paramedic training and even talk about. I guess I never thought about the Hebrew women, the midwives. You Know like you always hear about Moses, but nobody talks about the midwives all that much, you know, so just like a really beautiful. Especially for those who are interested in home birth, there's a lot of information in here. You talk about like kind of surrender to it and how some moms, you know, they just have a, a a little bit more difficult time because, you know, they like to be in control. The high control planners are the ones who struggle to let go. So a lot in here. A lot in here. About the husbands Every season I find myself wanting our home to breathe a little easier. Not a full renovation, just thoughtful updates that make the space work better for our real everyday life. That's why I love shopping at Wayfair. Our style leans warm and collected. A little modern, a little lived in. This spring we refreshed a few spaces. Lighter bedding, a couple accent pieces in the living room, and some outdoor furniture to make our patio feel like an actual gathering space instead of just yard furniture. Wayfair made it so easy to narrow things down by style, size, price. And I always read the reviews. Thousands of 5 star reviews make it feel less like guessing and more like choosing confidently. I also love how many functional pieces they carry. Storage solutions, shelving for work from home, home spaces, even options for assembly. If you don't want to DIY it, it feels seamless. From browsing to delivery, the pieces we ordered fit right into our rhythm. Beautiful but practical. And that's what I'm always after. Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. You also then talk about your son Christopher. Do you still call him Kippy?
- [36:06]
B
Yes, we call him both Kip, Kippy and Christopher, but yes.
- [36:11]
A
So Christopher is your fifth child and you talk about how he got to around age 3 and still wasn't talking and you started to think, huh, you know, is something going on here? Can you talk a little bit about Christopher's journey?
- [36:23]
B
Yes. So Christopher's story is the most miraculous story. So he was, he was level three autistic, which is, is very severe and non verbal. And when he got to be three, he still wasn't talking at two. I was saying, okay, he's the late talker and I need to work with this. And I had kind of set a goal about by about two and a half that when he turned three we were going to learn to say, my name is Christopher and I'm three. And I worked and worked and worked with him on that. And he did say it, but it was just. He would say, say, my name is Christopher and I'm three. It was just echolalia, they call it. And so. But what had began to happen is he had developed these very strange and disturbing behaviors. He was terrified of things he shouldn't have been terrified of and not afraid of things he should have been afraid of, like going out in the dark in the woods in the middle of the night and freezing cold. And just. I was. I was reeling. He was my fifth child, and I felt that I had no control over him and no connection with him and the behaviors. While I could tell he wasn't mean or angry, even he was violent because of his terror and his frustration. And we faced very scary situations when we had our sixth child and he was like this. And we decided to take him and have him evaluated, and we took him to the Child Studied center in Fort Worth, and they. That's where we found out it was autism. And it set us into a boat rocking, to use a cliche. And the community really rallied around us. And I really believe that our lifestyle that is rooted in the land and growing, our food and interaction with anim animals and that together with the concentric circles of relationship. In other words, so many people are so fragmented in that they go to school with one group and they go to church with another group, and their neighbors are a completely different group. And if they have playground time, that's even somebody else. And there's just. We're. We're fragmenting our relationships in. In the cultural culture at large. And I think for an autistic person, that the. Those circles are the same or overlapping is. Is very stabilizing. So we began to work with him, and the community rallied around us in helping us get a service dog so he didn't disappear. And a speech therapist here began to donate her time to me. And just people started helping. And another lady taught him how to make baskets, and another took him horse riding with her. And. And I just. All that. That interaction in those concentric circles of relationship, I believe was a game changer for us. And I devoted a lot of time to it myself. Just, we have to find a connection. We're about community. That's connection. And everybody has to have a place. And so we began to look for those places of connection. And they didn't think he was. Would likely ever talk. He didn't say mommy until he was almost six years old and he didn't say yes or no till he was six. He, he didn't really start speaking in, in coherent sentences until he was seven. He's 19 now and he's going to graduate this year and he has a place, he's training service dogs for other autistic children. He's completely communicative. He can tell about his own experiences. He's very musical. He sings in our choir, he plays the drums. He, he has an amazing photographic memory that can remember unbelievable quantities of information and, and he just, most of all, he's needed. He sings for the elderly, he helps, helps them. He's just, he's a beloved child here and he's helping other people, other autistic children now that are not a part of our church community even. That's where he is this morning, actually. He's helping a little girl to select a dog. And, and I'm just, I'm so grateful not only that he is verbal now and he's communicating, but that he has a place, he has a purpose and he is a witness. He is just a witness that I feel like he is the biggest statement that this kind of lifestyle can be a game changer. It, and it people say all over the world, this is miraculous. And nobody is more convinced than me of that.
- [41:22]
A
You tell people, you tell KP's story in the book, but you can also your family, like you're really good storytellers, which makes sense. You know, you say you grew up, you know, writing stories with your family and, and your son in law, Isaac is also a really good storyteller. He has got all of these properties that he's made with his family, like with his siblings. And he'll tell the story of like, you know, you can come stay at this train, but here's all the background of this. You know, it's a renovated train. So he's telling stories so people can find your stories. You put them on Instagram. Christopher's talking, talking about his story, you know, talking about swinging, how this is a first moment of connection that you had, which I thought was really cool too, Amanda, because, because you know, swinging in general, there's so much. Now they know there's so much science behind that movement of swinging and it like activates the vestibular sense which turns the brain, you know, just all of the types of motion. And so he says up, yeah, you know, like he likes to swing and this is this moment of connection. And then can you talk about the moment when you realize that the dog would be really helpful because this ties in with your midwifery. You have someone staying with him and your. Your kids because you're off at a birth and he gets lost.
- [42:31]
B
Right? So, yes, I had a lot of the young women here. When they graduate high school, they will often spend a period of time serving either a large family or the elderly and just get that experience. And so she was. She was helping us. And she calls me while I'm at a prenatal exam and says, christopher has been missing for 45 minutes. And, I mean, it was your work worst nightmare. It had happened before, but not that long. And so I. I came straight home and everybody. Everybody who was having their prenatal exams is praying and, and kept checking. Is he found yet? And we. We finally found him in the bottom of a ravine. I don't know how far, but over the top of a ridge and through the woods and in the bottom of a ravine behind our house. And I mean, he could have fallen off of a cliff. I mean, it was terrible. And our lab, we had a lab that was a pet to my older son. He actually was the one who really found him. I'd had a toy train, and I found a toy train of his, and I showed him a sock and he started looking for him. And so he started barking and we found him. And it was a long time after he had been missing for. For over an hour. And so we were just like, what do we do? So we got these GPS trackers and all this stuff. And he was a Houdini. He could get all of them off. He hated anything around his wrists. And my brother called and said, have you ever thought about a service dog? I said, yes. Have you ever looked at the price? And so this was just not in our price range at all. And so we, you know, we. We just didn't think that was an option. And I don't remember exactly how long it was later, but. But at like the end of the summer or something, I get a call and it was my brother. And he said, the community has raised the money for you.
- [44:30]
A
Wow. Wow.
- [44:32]
B
To get this dog. And it was, you know, you feel humbled by these things, you know, and. And yet it. It's. It's life giving. And so it took up. It was a process to get, because they, you know, match the dog to the personality and everything. And then we got the dog. About a year after that, or nine months maybe, we got the dog and. And he never disappeared again after the dog, it was. It was phenomenal. What happened when he had that dog, it was like he felt this responsibility without the pressure of human communication. And so that dog moved in with him. You know, they have. You have it sleep in bed, which fortunately was a poodle, non shedding, but it was one of those great big standard poodles. And he, the dog slept with him. The dog was with him all the time. And he would give a bark if he tried to open the window or climb over the fence. And he was also in search and rescue. So if Christopher did wander, he would bring him back. And it was just amazing. But the main thing is that he started sleeping again. He loved the dog. He just took care of it and spent all his time with it. And I immediately saw improvement in his communication and in his peace and everything. And it's just, I mean, we were meant to interact with all of creation, animals, the land. And. And this was just a beautiful example of the interrelationship between people and animals and how healing that can be. So the dog changed our lives. And that dog has since passed away, but we got another one. And then we let him raise and train that one one. And so it wasn't trained on the level of a service dog, but by that time we didn't need that element so much. But now he is in an apprenticeship to learn to train service dogs for special needs children.
- [46:29]
A
Wow, Amanda, I bet you, you could have never imagined. There is a video you can watch of him singing. I think it's Jesus Loves Me is on. You know, if people want to look, I'll make sure I'll link to it. And you're like, oh, you know, I think there's probably a lot of parents who are listening in that, that, you know, they're in a struggle with this, with a child or several children. And you just, you can't, you know, you don't know what's to come. And so what. What a story. I had chills. I want to read what you wrote. So you say, yeah, you know, these dogs are so expensive. And the community pitches in. You don't even know they're doing it, but they've done it, you know, so we're going to get this dog. I got chills to get him a dog. We're opening an account for his needs. And you say, kippy ran straight for the dog. He threw his arms around its neck and buried his face in its fur. It was love at first sight. We named him Puzzle. He was a missing piece in Christopher's puzzled world. From that day on, Kippy never Climbed out another window or scaled another fence. Puzzle was always there, watchful, steady, ready to alert us if he even thought about it. And the scattered pieces of our days slowly started to fit back together. Isn't it remarkable too that God made the dogs? Animals like, you know, man's best friend, that God made them and certain breeds, you know, they all have, you know, their different strengths and weaknesses, but that they can be that smart and that attuned, like, yeah, help a child, you know, they get them for. If a child is diabetic, like it knows if it's gonna happen. It can sense a blood sugar crash. It can sense if someone's gonna have a seizure. I mean, it's like a miracle. I know these animals to be able to do that. And that at some point people figured out that they could do that. And then they figured out, well, how can we train these dogs? And then this is such a life, life giving thing for a family. But they're so expensive. And now Christopher is joining in in that. That's a calling for him.
- [48:21]
B
Yes.
- [48:22]
A
Like your midwifery is a calling for you. This is a calling for him. You wrote no one ever, ever thought he'd ever talk, but now he does. And now he's training and helping other children and the elderly, like you said. And he's singing, you said. Though Christopher has some disabilities, he also has an uncanny perceptiveness. Sometimes I think those with disabilities are less distracted by the noise of life. They're tuned to a different frequency and he's just sensing these things and what a story. People can follow along. And it's in the book. It's beautiful. Can you add in them the little piece about. Because they're expecting that he's going to be non verbal, so he's not going to be communicating at all. Well, then he starts writing. So can you talk about writing letters to Omi? Yes.
- [49:07]
B
Yes. So for months I had been working on his writing and he could copy, I could dictate things to him and he could write it, but he could not seem to get the idea that he could write a sentence out of his own head. Which, as I said before, writing and family workshop, that's, that's family to us. And so it troubled me and I was like, okay, should I push for this or should I not? And I, I kept, kept trying. I tried different things. I say, christopher, look out the window. What do you see? Okay, Christopher, let's go outside. What do you see? A tree. What color is it? Green and brown. Good. Okay. Can you write Something about that. What do you want me to say about that? Well, I want you to say what you see. I see a tree. I know. Put that on the paper. What. What do you want me to say? It could not make that transition. You think these things are automatic, but one little thing wrong, and they're not. And so I. I told my husband, what? Do I push or do I not? We prayed, and we felt like, he can do this. There is an answer. But don't just push. There's going to be a key. So every day I was looking, Lord, show me. Show me the answer. And we checked the mail, and I think, okay, there's going to be some flyer. I should have found your book. Thousand hours outside. But it was before that, right? And so I. I just was looking everywhere. Every conversation, every everything, every service I wanted to hear. There's the key. I feel they're out there, and we just have to tap into them. So we went to dinner one Friday night. Just a bunch of people were gathered for dinner. And there were some guests there, some missionary guests. And I was just trying to make small talk, and I said, oh, do you homeschool? Yeah, I've homeschooled for years. What curriculum do you use? And she's like, oh, there's this program. It's centered around letter writing because a lot of missionaries want their kids to write letters to family back home. And she said, so they teach everything through letter writing, grammar, how to, you know, build a story, everything through letter writing. And, I mean, it was like, ding, a bell rung in my heart. I just. I knew this was the answer. I didn't even hear what the curriculum was. I. What I saw is that he saw that there was no recipient of what he was trying to say, of his communication. So why should he write to the air, you know, to the paper? He needed a person to speak to. And so I went home, and the next day, I said, christopher, I thought we would write a letter to Omi today. Would you like to write a letter to Omi? Sure. So he sits down at the table and he writes, dear Omi, I am sitting at the table and my mom is teaching me school. My dog, Puzzle is sitting next to me, watching me. I love you. Love, Christopher. She has that letter to this day. And Omi was his speech therapist and who had donated her time two hours a day, four days a week for years to help me with him, to help him develop language. He wrote his first letter to her, and from then on, he could write as long as it was in the form. So if I wanted him to write an essay on Pompeii and the volcano, I would say, let's write a letter to Granddaddy about Pompeii and what we read. If I wanted him to tell about his time riding the horses and do a writing with the family, we did it as a letter to Grandmama or somebody that he knew. And so all his words were going to specific people that he loved and had been loved by. I love it.
- [52:54]
A
I just read a book recently that talked about how there's a lost art of letter writing and that actually that letter writing for a very long time was a big part of people's lives. They were talking about it in terms of C.S. lewis, that people spent a lot of time because that was the only way that they commute. They could communicate, you know, with loved ones that were far away. And so they spent a lot of time writing letters. And so this is what was the thing that worked.
- [53:18]
B
Yes.
- [53:18]
A
For Kippy. And how interesting that there's a curriculum with that as a foundation. That makes a lot of sense. You wrote from that day forward. His school days were full of letters. His writing blossomed. And more than that, his relationships began to blossom, too. This is a stunning book. I mean, it is a heartwarming. I got chills. I'm, like, crying through all of it. And then, you know, you're starting to take think if you don't live in a community like yours, you're like, what are the things that I can take away? Are there things that I can do to strengthen my own community? And obviously, all the information in there about home birth and midwifery, I'd love to wrap it up. There's so many things that we could talk about. It's such a beautiful book. You talk about the comparison between beginnings and endings. You know, this is birthing a way of life, but birth also includes death. So those types of things are in there. You talk about the hardships. Some of the hardships, like you said, when people leave or they don't, or they. They slender you.
- [54:13]
B
Yeah.
- [54:13]
A
Yeah. Like what? That's. You know, you talk about a lot of the hardships that you've gone through as well. But as we're wrapping it up, because we just have a couple minutes left, I definitely want to talk about how you had an intense phobia of drowning in dirt. So I think if, you know, you're talking about camping, we want to go camping. And I think this actually is really relatable. Like, I want to go Camping, want to get these kids outside. It's great, you know, great for everyone. But you say in the early years of camping you had an intense phobia, both of kids drowning and of dirt.
- [54:45]
B
Well, it was, it was a little bit, probably more. There's a little more than that. But what I didn't like was laundry piling up while we're camping. So I had the notion. So we have, Dan and I have camped our whole lives. I love camping. I love hiking. When we want a day off, when we want to recreate, we hike, we hike a mountain. We did a 20 mile hike up a mountain last year and camped overnight. We, we just love it. But when we first, when I first became a mother, it was like, oh, wow, these kids get lots dirtier than me. And then what do I do with that laundry while we're camping? So I had this phobia of, of dirt and then the kids drowning. And so I would, would, whenever I would give them marshmallows or anything like that because they then, then all that dirt sticks to the marshmallow. I would put them in raincoats, I could wash them off. And my husband was like, honey, that is all that is cruel. Just let them get dirty. So that was only the first three kids I did that. And after that I just said, you know what, what? Let them turn black, let them be sticky and the dirt can stick to it. That's part of it. That is part of the experience. And so it actually made camping a lot more enjoyable with children when we decided that dirt was part of the fun. And Dan always says camping is always fun either in the moment or later. Later. It's either fun in the moment. If everything is going great and if everything is going horrible like it often does, then you've got a story to tell for decades to come. So our camping has always been fun one way or the other.
- [56:45]
A
I love it. You just gotta embrace it. You say that your parents just go back to your parents who started this community. However long ago you wrote they believed that a culture could be born where the lonely would find friends, the despairing would find hope, and the ancient ethic, love your neighbor as yourself could come to life again. You talk about walking over road with very few footprints. However, the footprints have definitely increased because you have communities now all over the world. And I know even at the one that I came and visited and was able to stay, it was like there wasn't enough room on the piece of property there and people kind of lived in the surrounding areas. So I Think this is something people are longing for. They're longing for these stronger relationships and. And for someone they can depend on and for community that can step in. And everybody kind of fills the gaps like the puzzle. So I loved the book. It was really cool to see Isaac and Helen in there. You know, Isaac shows up on page 72 as a, you know, he's a baby, and then he ends up marrying your oldest daughter, Helen. Helen shows up on page 62. So, you know, it's like, you know, their. Their early years and then their stories end up connecting. And anyway, it's just. I was really a huge blessing for me to get a chance to spend time with you and your family. And I love the book. It is called the Time to Be Born. One midwives witness to the miracle of life in Christian community. There's lots more in there. Talk about dating is in there. I mean, there's a lot more than we. Than we even covered. Your. Your story of meeting Dan, about finding obs in the hospital that will support your midwifery journey. That, I mean, there's so much. You pack so much in. Amanda, it's a beautiful book. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside
- [58:31]
B
hiking with my dad. I remember going into the mountains and he would say, do you hear the silence? And we would always stop and just listen. We would listen to the wind, to the river, to the leaves falling. And he always said, if you can get yourself quiet enough, you might hear the creation. And if you keep listening, you're going to hear the Creator. And I feel I've tried to teach my children to learn the silence of creation so that they can hear the Creator. And I take them hiking because my dad gave me that love.
- [59:15]
A
Oh, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Amanda, I have loved this, loved it. I loved reading your memoir. Love this conversation and God bless you and all that you do and all these women that you serve in the families and the generational impact that that will have. Thanks for being here.
- [59:32]
B
Thank you for having me. It was a blessing and an honor.
- [59:40]
A
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- [59:42]
B
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- [59:44]
A
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B
That's 40% less than the 5 grams
- [59:48]
A
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B
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- [59:53]
A
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- [60:03]
B
Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.