1KHO 738: You Are Not Ruining Your Kids | Abbey Wedgeworth, Help! I'm Ruining My Kids

Summary

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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 738: You Are Not Ruining Your Kids
Guest: Abbey Wedgeworth (Author, Help! I’m Ruining My Kids)
Host: Ginny Yurich
Date: March 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This heartfelt and relatable episode focuses on the pervasive fear among mothers that they are "ruining" their kids. Ginny Yurich welcomes Abbey Wedgeworth, author of Help! I’m Ruining My Kids: A Gospel Guide for the Mom Who's Desperate for Change, to discuss the realities of motherhood, combating shame and guilt, embracing imperfection, and finding hope and community. The conversation weaves in practical encouragement with spiritual and psychological wisdom, aiming to reassure parents that falling short is both normal and surmountable.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Abbey’s Writing Journey and Book Themes ([02:07]–[05:35])

• Abbey shares her path to writing, which began after a personal tragedy (pregnancy loss). Her journey led to writing devotionals and children’s books like the “Training Young Hearts” series.
• Her latest book, Help! I’m Ruining My Kids, is aimed squarely at mothers who feel overwhelmed by guilt and shame.

Abbey: "Parenting is hard. Being a kid is hard... So many women are functioning in isolation because they think if I said this out loud, people don’t want to be friends with me, or maybe social services would come take my kids. So we're just hiding in shame instead of getting the help we need." ([05:35])

Universal Mom Guilt and 'Ruined' Moments ([05:10]–[09:53])

• Both Ginny and Abbey speak to the universality of parental regret, sharing humorous and poignant stories about moments their kids never seem to forget.
• They highlight how children latch onto "high emotion moments," often retelling family stories about parental missteps.

Ginny: "They remember these high emotion, I think, moments. And then they're like, oh, well, that's now a part of our story." ([08:08])

Standards, Guilt, and Self-imposed Pressure ([09:53]–[12:34])

• Parents, especially mothers, often set impossible standards for themselves, such as feeling guilt over not achieving goals like “1000 hours outside”.
• Ginny emphasizes her intention is to ease, not add to, parental burdens.

Ginny: "My heart is that, you know, if you're frazzled, that's what this book is about. The outdoors is a place where you’re a little less frazzled and kids can yell and scream and run and you don’t have to look at your cobwebs." ([10:02])

Shame, Guilt, and the Remedy ([12:34]–[14:56])

• Abbey reorients the idea of shame, advocating that improvement doesn't come from hustle or perfection but from connection and grace.
• Shame is "never eradicated by performance," and true healing is based in relational and spiritual grounding.

Abbey: "Shame cannot be eradicated by performance. And shame cannot motivate true and lasting change. It can’t. What can eradicate shame is the performance of Jesus on our behalf. So we just rest in it." ([13:36])

Public Meltdowns, Family Judgment, and Comparison ([14:56]–[19:46])

• Ginny and Abbey discuss handling public embarrassment when children "meltdown," especially in front of family or strangers.
• Both hosts explore how criticism or comparison from others (family or society) can fuel internalized shame and spiral.

Abbey: "Love of God, love of neighbor, and the approval of Jesus delivers us from comparison. It delivers us from treating other people like they're the judge because the highest form of judgment has said we're okay." ([18:10])

The Reality of Everyday Gaps and Mistakes ([25:00]–[27:11])

• Parents are not meant to be all things or fix every gap. The importance of acknowledging and repairing mistakes is highlighted.
• Ginny and Abbey give funny and vulnerable examples of “gaps,” like children not knowing how to sign their names or remember the days of the week.

Abbey: "You cannot be all things to your kids, and you’re gonna blow it... you will be the source of some of their wounds and gaps." ([25:56])

The Art of Apology and Repair ([27:11]–[29:06])

• Abbey shares two contrasting apology styles:
  • The dismissive: “I’m sorry, but you were out of control.”
  • The genuine: “I’m sorry I spoke to you the way I did. My yelling is not your fault. Will you please forgive me?”
• Practicing honest, responsibility-taking apologies models resilience for children.

The Monotony and Holiness of Ordinary Motherhood ([29:06]–[34:09])

• The tension between monotony and meaning in motherhood is unpacked.
• Reframing everyday chores and routines as “holy work” transforms the experience.
• A “way of being”—the emotional state of parents—matters more than ticking boxes.

Abbey: "There’s a way to fold laundry with love and there’s a way to fold laundry upset and vindictively... That will come out." ([31:17])

Living Within Your Limits: The Healthy Mind Platter ([37:46]–[42:50])

• Abbey introduces the “Healthy Mind Platter” (Dan Siegel) emphasizing physical activity, sleep, relational time, downtime, focus, play, and reflection.
• Self-care isn’t selfish: tending to your needs allows you to love your kids well.

Abbey: "In the name of self-sacrifice, we don’t do the very thing we need to do to love our kids. Well, because self-care feels selfish." ([41:00])

Why Getting Outside Helps ([42:50]–[44:11])

• Going outdoors checks off many Healthy Mind Platter categories (movement, play, connection, reflection).
• Ginny reflects on how the puzzle pieces of research and personal experience have affirmed the power of outdoor time for mental and family health.

Never Arriving in Motherhood: Embracing Change ([45:13]–[49:47])

• Motherhood is never stagnant; each new stage brings new challenges, and the idea of “arriving” is a myth.
• The relentless change is purposeful, designed to keep us humble and dependent on community and faith.

Abbey: "I think perfect parenting is the enemy of faithful parenting. Because when we are trying to need God less, we can’t depend on him more." ([46:55])

• The power of a supportive community in reminding you of your value and affirming your children’s character (not just achievement).

Grief, Tears, and “Burping the Pot” ([50:43]–[54:42])

• Abbey shares her grandmother’s wisdom: "You have to burp the pot, so it doesn’t boil over."
• Grieving hardships (loss, illness, disappointment) is essential to not letting bottled-up emotion “spill out sideways” onto children.

Abbey: "We have to let those tears out... I think sometimes, especially for Christian moms, we mistake Christianity for stoicism... But your kids live in a fallen world, and they need to know how to navigate hard things and to see [you grieve]." ([52:00])

Bringing the Past into Parenting: “I Ate” and Triggers ([56:49]–[60:21])

• Abbey unpacks how unresolved issues from our own childhood inform our emotional reactivity as parents, offering the story of her sisters’ “Ignore Her” game.
• Suggests parents make a timeline of their life to understand their parenting triggers.

Abbey: "Being aware of how our past impacts our parenting is really important... Sometimes the ways that we are trying to protect them are really hurting them." ([59:33])

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Memorable Quotes

• Abbey: "The goal is to raise a person who is kind, who sees others... If I’m focused on what not knowing the days of the week means about me, then I’m not going to be seeing that." ([48:05])
• Ginny: "Some of our standards for ourselves aren’t even moral mandates... and we just walk around functioning in guilt." ([09:53])
• Abbey (on apologies): "My kids are never responsible for my actions... I could have responded with self-control... Will you please forgive me?" ([27:11])
• Abbey (on grief): "It's important for us to grieve what is grievous." ([54:07])

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Important Timestamps

• Abbey introduces herself and her books – [02:07]
• Universal mom guilt, “ruining” moments – [05:10]
• How shame works in motherhood, gospel remedy – [12:34]
• Public meltdowns and family judgment – [14:56]
• Being comfortable with imperfection and repair – [27:11]
• Living within your limits: The Healthy Mind Platter – [38:01]
• Motherhood is never stagnant – [45:39]
• Grieving and expressing emotion: “Burp the pot” – [50:42]
• How our past affects our parenting (“I Ate” story) – [56:49]

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Notable Moments

• The “Days of the Week” Gap: Abbey’s son forgets the days in order, sparking insecurity—only to be reminded by her community of his many strengths. ([16:27], [48:05])
• Genuine Apology Template: Abbey’s model for apologizing to children with honesty and empathy. ([27:11])
• “Burp the Pot” Metaphor: Releasing stress through honest tears and community support—“We need to make time and space to cry so that our suppressed emotions won’t blow the lid off.” ([50:43])

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Conclusion and Tone

This episode is rife with depth, humor, and vulnerability, offering real talk about the frustrations and fears of parenting, but always circling back to restoration, faith, and connection. Ginny and Abbey’s conversational, empathetic tone invites listeners to release shame, embrace imperfection, love their kids (and themselves) honestly, and reach out to their communities. Listeners are reminded: You are not alone—and you truly are not ruining your kids.

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Transcript

[A]

If you're a parent, you know how hard it is to find drinks that are actually good for your kids and still taste good enough that they'll drink them. That's why we have been loving Cure Hydration. I always read the label before I let my kids have anything and Cure checks every box. Their hydration packs for adults are plant based, have no added sugar and only 25 calories. I use them in the mornings to jumpstart my water intake or when we're traveling, especially flights, because they just make staying hydrated easier. Lemonade is probably my favorite right now. It's clean, light, and never tastes artificial. And since it hydrates better than water alone, I actually feel the difference. The kids mixes have been a big shift in our house. My kids used to resist plain water, especially after being outside all day. Now they will happily drink Cure. It's formulated with pediatricians, free of artificial flavors and major allergens, and has no added sugars. We use it after sports, long outdoor days, or even when someone's feeling rundown. Staying hydrated isn't just about water. You also need electrolytes. That's why my family loves Cure. It's clean, tastes great, and my kids love it. You can grab Cure on Amazon or find a store near you@cure hydration.com outside. Real ingredients, real hydration, ready for the whole family. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny er and the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and we're going to be talking today about the concept of ruining your kids. Abby Wedgeworth is here. She wrote a book called Help Help with an exclamation point. I'm Ruining My Kids. A gospel guide for the moment. Who is desperate for change? Abby talks about being frazzled. I feel like the start of this has been a teeny bit frazzled. So it's very perfect for the book. Abby, welcome.

[B]

Oh, Jenny. You're like exposing me in the first five seconds. When Jenny popped on the screen, I was like, okay, Jenny, count to five. I'm going to run to my pantry and get a protein bar before we start. You are quick, man. It is just.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I pride myself on my speed. I do.

[A]

Yes. Okay, tell us about your life. So you're already an author. You have this book coming out on March 17th. We're going to try and get it up a couple days before March 17th because you can get the pre order bonuses, which is a podcast series. So I'll put the link in the show notes. But this is not your first book.

[B]

No.

[A]

A Lot of books.

[B]

Some of them are very small, but there are a lot of them. Yeah, some of them are board bucks. Very durable. Very durable. Books that are. Lift the flap.

[A]

Tell us about your writing journey.

[B]

Okay. So we lost a baby between our first and second that was still in the womb. And at the time, I had been producing like an email series for moms around Advent. It was a daily email series. And as we journeyed through that pregnancy loss, it was. I don't. I don't know how this might land to listeners, but it was just so much more devastating than I ever imagined pregnancy loss would be. It's something people say in a sentence like, oh, we had a miscarriage. You know, it was gut wrenching. And I really wrestled with my faith, Jenny. And so I wanted to do like a daily email series for women who. The month after miscarriage is what I wanted to call it. And at the time, I had an editor I was writing for for an online outlet. And she said, I really think this might be something that publishers would be interested in and that women might like to hold because pregnancy loss is so intangible. And so she was like, let's just take it to some publishers and see. And she was connected in that world, introduced me to someone. They picked it up. It. I mean, praise the Lord, because women are. Are turning to God in their time of need and, like. But it's. It's also a bummer. It's needed, you know, but it sells more copies every quarter and it's been out since 2020, so I love that book. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to write it. And then that publisher reached back out a couple of years later and was like, do you have any ideas? And I was like, actually, I just wrote a poem for my kids and that poem turned into nine books. So that series is awesome. It's like helping kids be aware of ways that we should and should not use our bodies and what to do when we feel shame, what to do when we fail, and really empowering them that change is possible. That, you know, we all make mistakes and we can find forgiveness and we can find help to do better. So I love that series so much, and my kids love it, which is so encouraging. They're like my most important reviewers. So. And this book, Jenny, is really moms all the time. Especially the book what are feelings feelings for? They're all like, what are hands for? What are mouths for? This one is what are feelings for? Moms are always reaching out, being like, wow, I really needed this book. For me. And that's what this. Help, I'm ruining my kids. That's what this is. It's like that book for moms. Like, I don't love what I'm doing. I want to be different. I feel like I'm functioning in shame all the time. What do I do? This is that.

[A]

Oh, I love it. I love it when there's books that match up for adults and for the kids. So the book for miscarriage is called held 31 biblical reflections on God's Comfort and Care in the Sorrow of Miscarriage. And then the nine book children series is called Training Young Hearts. So this is book 11 that you have coming out here. Help, I'm ruining my kids. I think that it's a sentiment that I never really know. You know, I'm like, I live in my own head. So I'm like, do other people think the same way I do? I don't know. I would imagine it's a thought that probably every mother has had.

[B]

Yeah. Every time that I. My local people, and they'd be like, what are you working on? And I would tell them the title, they would be like, oh my gosh, I need to read it immediately. Or they would get tears in their eyes and start divulging specifics. You know, it's every. I have not met a mom that. That doesn't feel this way.

[A]

Yeah. And. And almost in some ways there's a. A past tense version of it of, I've ruined them already. You have like a specific instance and you're like, it's over. Yeah.

[B]

No, and they bring it up. I. There was something that happened when I was like, experiencing postpartum all kinds of mental health hardship with my. And My oldest was 2. And he brings it up all the time and in front of his brothers, and then his brothers bring it up all the time. And like, over and over I just get to say, I am so sorry. But those are. That's hard. Like, and I think, you know, there are probably women listening who are like, oh, my goodness. These two women who are functioning well enough to do podcasts and write books, have no idea what my life is like. And I just want to say, like, if that's you, it is so much more normal than you think. Like, you there. People really struggle and family dynamics can be really, really hard. And kids can struggle with some really big things, you know, self harm, self deprecation, whatever. Like, parenting is hard. Being a kid is hard, you know, and that's why I think this message is so important. Is because so many women are functioning in isolation because they think if I said this out loud, people don't want to be friends with me, or maybe social services would come take my kids, you know? So we're just hiding and shame instead of getting the help we need.

[A]

Sure. It is funny how kids bring stuff up sometimes. I'm like, look, though, if there's only an. A certain number. If there's a countable number of things that you're bringing up, I'm like, maybe I'm doing all right. One of our things is that I was speaking at this conference, and there was. We had. You know, we've got. So we've got five kids, so there's seven of us. And at the beginning, when I started speaking at conferences, the people would only get us one room. And I was like, excuse me, I don't mean to be a diva here, but there's seven of us. And the last time we did it, I was like, this is the final straw. I was speaking at this conference in Virginia. One room, and there was two. Two beds in a pullout couch. Well, the pullout couch was, like, a little bit bigger. So I slept on the pull couch in the middle between my youngest and oldest, who were both sick.

[B]

Oh, Jenny.

[A]

And they coughed the entire night on the thin mattress of the pullout couch with all the bars.

[B]

And you're probably, like, speaking the next day.

[A]

Get up and speak. I was like, done. So now we're like, okay, two rooms min. You know, we need. Not minimum two rooms. I don't need more than two.

[B]

We'd like five, actually. Could we have five?

[A]

So anyway, there was one time where we had the connecting room, and my son, who was like a teenager, it, like, he just kind of dropped the door on me. He, like, didn't catch it. And the piece that sticks out for, like, the deadbolt, which is, like, very hard. It, like, it sliced my arm, but I didn't even bleed. But it did hurt really bad. And I did make a really big deal out of it. And so they bring it up all the time.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

You know, so they. They remember these high emotion, I think, moments. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, well, that's now a part of our story.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, they'll send me videos of moms who. Their kids hit them with the cart in the grocery store. And the mom's, like, totally overreacting. They're like, that's you.

[B]

Oh, Jesse.

[A]

Excuse me.

[B]

I think. And those moments aren't just like the book is not about anger, because anger is not the only struggle, right? And usually it's a secondary emotion. But, like, one of our sons had a birthday this week and, like, sat me down at the end of the day, and I was like, mom, you just really missed the mark on this one. You know, like, it was just like, this was not. You didn't give me what I wanted. Like, the day didn't feel how I wanted it to feel. And you just go to bed feeling, like the worst, and the way I reacted was not the best, you know? But there are all kinds of moments like that. I mean, one of my kids is going through a neurological thing that's like, exacerbated by stress. I sent him to my mom's for a few days to get his tank filled, you know, and she was like, he didn't have this one struggle the whole time he was here. I never saw it happen. And he came home and he's, like, ticking all over the place. And I'm like, isn't it my fault? You know, I mean, this just. It's everything. It's like the environment that we're making for them, you know, like, the ways that we are reacting to them. Even, like, the premise of your podcast, which is so beautiful, you know, to, like, get kids outside. I was telling a friend I was going to be on this podcast, and she just immediately got this, like, guilty look on her face and was like, oh, I've tried to do it so many times. I printed Genti's Jenny's PDFs, and I just. I can never hit it, you know, but, like, we have these standards for ourselves that aren't even moral mandates that we just, like, can't hit, and we just walk around functioning in guilt.

[A]

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Someone posted something recently on social media and they had you tagged me or something, and it was like. It was like, in some other words, like, this doesn't matter, you know? And I was like, I. I got what they were saying. They were like, if you go out for 20 minutes, it's good. And I'm like, that is what I say. You know, I. I've never been one to be like. In fact, I say it all the time. Like, however, wherever you land, it matters actually quite a bit. And the purpose is really to make your life easier in the long run. Kids who play outside are better able to occupy themselves. They're healthier, and you feel better as a parent. That really is the whole premise. And so in a day and age of technology, if we can have a goal for real life living. It's going to help us live better. So it's just. It's always interesting when people, obviously, they don't see everything you write and they don't know your heart. But I'm like, that is my heart. My heart is that, you know, if you're. If you're frazzled, that's what this book is about. The outdoors is a place where you're a little less frazzled and kids can yell and scream and run and you don't have to look at your cobwebs. We have a lot of those cobwebs. So, yeah. So, yeah, this is a book about being frazzled. I love, you know, you kind of kick it off. You're like, mom's feeling. I actually love this. You're like, I'm feeling a little, little frazzled. This reminded me of. I used to be a high school teacher, and it's so hard to make sub plans. I taught math, so I, you know, you. You basically go in when you're dying. You know, like, I'm not gonna try to make these sub plans at 4:45 in the morning for four different levels of math. And, you know, so I'm like, I'm just gonna go in. And I would say to the kids, I don't feel well. You know, can you. Can you please be good?

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

They can't. They can't.

[B]

It's almost like an invitation also, I think it's like, you know, yeah, I'm struggling, so. Yeah, have at me.

[A]

So you were saying. Look, can you look, I'm feeling frazzled. I'm. I'm gonna be up front. Can you please not touch each other and aggravate each other in the car for the rest of the ride home? So I think, you know, you kind of kick it off in this. In this spot that I think everyone can relate to when you're just like, kind of at the end of your rope. So one of the things that you address is shame, and you have a whole section about the remedy of shame. And you say you're probably way more messed up than you would ever dare imagine. You are capable of truly terrible things. But. And there's a big but. You're always. I hope kids laugh at that. There's a big but. You're always far more loved than you could ever dare dream. And God can use for good. Use you for good in ways. There's probably a typo there. I am botching your book here, but I do.

[B]

Girl, it's Okay. I probably botched it, too. Hope I'm reading my book.

[A]

God can use you for good in ways you would never think possible. So can you talk about what to do with shame in motherhood when we think we are wretched mothers? Yeah, I think.

[B]

Okay, so I'm going to start actually, Jenny, by saying what not to do. Okay, so the. The first is like, don't go. Try harder. You know, to just be like, this is going to be okay if I can make up for the bad with the good. And that's what I did when my son came to me with his birthday stuff. You know, like, instead of going for connection, I just went straight for correction. You are so ungrateful. You have no idea how much I've done and at great cost to myself or what. Because the goal really is relationship. And when we get on that treadmill of, like, hustling to make ourselves feel good enough as moms, like, we could never be good enough. The treadmill is always going to speed up, and we're just going to slam into the wall of shame every time. It's not. Shame cannot be eradicated by performance. And shame cannot motivate true and lasting change. It can't. What can eradicate shame is the performance of Jesus on our behalf. So we just rest in it like, he was perfect for me. And that pressure comes off. Because what that pressure is going to do is actually if we are every day waking up and standing on the chopping block of, am I a good enough mom? We're going to be all cut up in pieces all day long. And then where that actually ends up coming out is on our kids. It perpetuates the exact behaviors we don't want to be doing. Because when they are misbehaving, they're in the way of the kind of mothers we want to feel like. Or when they're ungrateful, they are exposing what. What we see. That's, like, not right inside of us. And so that's the thing about shame is it has us focus on, like, what we're doing or what we're doing wrong. And the gospel asks us to focus on who we are not because of what we do, but who we are in Jesus, which is, we're loved, we're chosen. So instead of saying, am I a good mom? Am I a bad mom? We rest in, I am a forgiven moment. I am a loved mom. I am an empowered mom, because God's given me his spirit, through whom I can do more than you ever imagine. I mean, that's the power that raised Jesus from the dead that lives inside of us to help us carry out the commands that. That God has given us to do. So instead of whipping ourselves into shape, we can parent from rest, you know,

[A]

so talk about the times when the child is melting down in public. I think that's one of the hardest things. Or at a family function, that's one of the ones you talked about. Just hyper aware. And there's so much there about being judged. And I. I mean, I've had family members that have been like, you know, if you don't potty train now, if you. You're a toddler, he's going to grow up to be out of control. I was like, you were wrong, but you don't know it for 14 years, you know, so.

[B]

And.

[A]

And then it's dumb. Like they would never remember the conversation. But I want to be like, hey, do you remember that in 2011 when you were at my house at the bottom of the st?

[B]

Yeah, to me, yeah.

[A]

But look how nice my kid turned out. You were wrong.

[B]

But it also, like, echoes in your mind and bounces around all the time, you know, I mean, I'm decades. Yeah, you and I both homeschool, Jenny, you homeschool? Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Okay. So I. And you're a working mom, so that's like, brings its own set of challenges. But like, this kid that I sent to my mom, when I picked him up from her, she was like, just so you know, he doesn't know the days of the week in order. I'm like, what? But he can tell you all about World War II leaders. He can, you know, we're educating classically. So he can tell you how to find the area of a rectangle. But like, this is a gap. And my mom is like, I just want to make sure you're not prioritizing your job over educating your kids. Which I'm just like, we did. We did that. Like, we did that three years ago.

[A]

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

[B]

Yes. And I, like, started. But the thing is, what happened is I was like, so mad at him. Like, I was like, we've done this. What are you doing to me? You know? But I held that back and we just started working on it because it was a gap that was exposed.

[A]

I thought you were saying where you just started laughing.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Well, I was kind of giggling. And he. Well, yesterday he walks up, he's like, mom, today, Today is Wednesday, tomorrow's Tuesday. And I was just like, we still have some work to do here, you know, okay, I'm so sorry I ventured away from your original question, but just to say, like, it is so hard for things to be exposed. They. They rub. Oh, family. That's what it is. Like, I'm standing.

[A]

You're answering it very well.

[B]

Like, my mom is. My mom is exposing a gap, you know, so if that issue becomes about my identity, am I a good mom? Am I a good homeschool mom? Am I prioritizing work over my kids? You know, we just ride the shame spiral all the way down. But if we remember the two greatest commands, which are love God, love neighbor. It just drives a spoke in the wheel of that shame spiral because. Or that, you know, the bicycle going down the shame spiral because it's like, okay, okay. Love God, love neighbor. We're thinking first about this vertical relationship. I'm okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, Jesus performed perfectly for me. My. My identity is not riding on my performance as a homeschool mom, a working mom, or if my kid knows the days of the week, you know, in order, he knows the days of the week, just, you know, they're all jumbled up. And then the second thing is love neighbor. It's like this moment, instead of making it about me, it can be about him. What does he need and how can I help? You know, and that's another thing, even sending him Jenny, a child psychologist friend of mine, she's my best friend from college as a child psychologist. And I called her just freaking out about this neuro thing that is really scary. And she said, you know what? He needs a little bit more right now, and it doesn't have to be you. And I think as moms, if I'm on the performance treadmill, I'm like, okay, I need to start spending more quality time. I need to. And instead I was like, this can be somebody else. You know, it's not about me. And so really resting in our identity as beloved children of God who have been approved and don't have to perform our kids on our report card anymore. We don't have to. We can love them as neighbors because we're not using them as pawns to feel good about ourselves. And you talk about the meltdown in public. How much more dysregulated are we when we're conscious of who's watching, versus, in that moment, being like, this is about you and me. This is about your needs. And I don't know where all these people are going when they get in their car, but you and me are going home together. And so I'm going to give you what you need. And instead of being like, what are all these people thinking of me while you're throwing a fit, I'm going to be like, wow, you are really having a hard time. How can I help you? Love of God, love of neighbor, and the approval of Jesus delivers us from comparison. It delivers us from treating other people like they're the judge because the highest form of judgment has said we're okay. And like it's honestly really prideful to dethrone him with our own opinions or to dethrone him with the opinions of others. You know, we're okay. And when we parent from that rest, we're different people, you know.

[A]

Yeah, Spring has a way of filling up the calendar quickly. Field trips, sports, travel, co op, which are all good things, but they can make it challenging to keep curriculum learning consistent. March is really about maintaining momentum while life gets busy. That's why having a flexible, organized learning tool can make such a difference in the final stretch of the home school year. IXL is designed to fit into your routine, not complicated. IXL is an award winning online learning platform offering interactive practice in math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It adapts to each child's level, keeps them motivated, and gives parents clear visibility into progress. What I especially appreciate this time of year is how simple and time saving it is. Everything is organized, organized by grade and subject, so you can jump right into exactly what your child needs, whether that's reinforcing a concept before testing or confidently moving ahead. The clear explanations and visible progress markers help kids stay encouraged as they work toward year end goals make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20 off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. These days I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, it's just not worth it to me. That's exactly why I love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin. Their lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters are perfect for the changing seasons and I'm loving the seasonal colors and prints for Spring ring. These are versatile, well made pieces that make getting dressed simple and I appreciate how they do business. Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing. The difference is in the details. The linen is breathable but substantial. The cotton poplin is crisp and holds its shape. Everything is built to hold up season after season, including the stitching, the fit and the fabrics. These are pieces you'll reach for over and over. That Quince cotton cashmere sweater has become my go to. It's light enough for layering, but still feels luxe. And it didn't cost what I thought quality cashmere would. Stop waiting to build the wardrobe you actually want. You don't need a closet full of options. You need pieces at work. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside when I was a kid, my grandpa had a room where he took apart all sorts of electronics. Seeing all the parts everywhere is so exciting today. As a parent trying to raise kids in a world of screens, I think about how exciting hands on learning can be. It can feel exhausting trying to offer something more compelling than a device. That is why Kiwico has been such a gift. We chose one of their science and engineering crates and the projects we build together turned our kitchen table into a mini innovation lab. There were moments of frustration and that's actually what I love most. My child had to think, adjust, try again, and when it finally clicked, pure pride. It felt different from other activities because it wasn't passive. It required creativity and persistence and I didn't have to do research, source supplies or plan a thing. It just arrived at our door ready to go. Kiwico makes it easy to build skills over time. Robotics, engineering, art, techniques, all while kids are having fun and there's no commitment. So you can pause or cancel anytime. We're already looking forward to our next crate. I love giving my kids opportunities to discover what they're capable of. And honestly, these make incredible gifts too. Tinker Create and innovate with Kiwico. Get up to 50 off your first monthly crate at kiwico.com code 1000 hours. That's up to 50 off your first crate at k-I w I c o.com code 1000 hours. Panda Crate is an exception. C site for details. And you know, I often think about, especially now that our kids are older, we're out of those toddler years, so many of the things that we do with our kids are unnatural. You know, a grocery store is so unbelievably unnatural. And the fact that they put all the like little toys and the bluey magaz and candy, you know, as you're trying to check out and you have to stand there and they have genius marketing at all. It is, it is, but it's unnatural. You know, 100 years ago, no one went. There wasn't. There weren't grocery stores. You would go to the farmer, you would have a relationship. It would be hands on, it would be in person, it would be embodied. And so a lot of these things are not natural for kids. And I, you know, I think that when our kids, if they had a temper in the woods, which they temper tantrum, which they rarely do because they're pretty occupied, they're like, well, nobody hears it or nobody cares or it's just your one mom friend who's like their kids doing the same thing. So I think it's just remembering that some of the stuff is just not natural. And so there's going to be a little bit more of that. And you have to, you have to just give yourself grace. And you know, like, maybe not to blast your mom, but like, maybe she shouldn't have said that.

[B]

She was actually very sweet. She was very sweet about it.

[A]

She was. But like, maybe if you're listening, like maybe you should just teach them the days of the week then and not bring it up, up.

[B]

Well, she did. She did. He came home with flashcards. That's how I discovered.

[A]

There we go. You know. But I think there's already. When I think, I guess it makes me think like when I talk to other people to really focus on what's going well because eventually that gap is going to get filled and everybody has gaps.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

One of our kids, when they took driver's ed, they went to go, they had to sign a piece of paper at the end. Now these are all 15 year olds. And she goes, mom, no one knew how to sign their name. No one zero that she said that the teacher told them to write their name in print and then to connect it with little curved lines. I was like, that's not really it. And you know, we've got gaps. One of my kids the other day said to me, she's 12, she said to me, mom, she said last Year, one of my friends, they go to, like, this little homeschool co op. She was like, one of my friends in my co op said, why do you write your name in all lowercase letters? And she was like, I didn't know you were supposed to start, is what you say.

[B]

You say, I am so humble. That's why. Humility.

[A]

But everybody's got gaps.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the important thing is that. And one, we weren't made to meet all their needs. So I know you're talking about gaps in schooling and. And knowledge and whatever, but, like, you. You cannot be all things to your kids, and you're gonna blow it like, that's the bummer, is you will be the source of some of their wounds and gaps.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's just inevitable. And so I think one of the really important things is that we learn how to, one, take action where action needs to be taken, and two, then we learn to repair. And if we're wrestling with guilt all the time, we're going to be distracted from those. Those two things, you know, productive activity and initiating repair. Because a perfect parent. If you're trying to be a perfect parent, you're sure as heck not going to apologize to your kids, because that's going against what. And that's so important. Like, secular psychologists would even say, like, this is paramount for raising kids who know how to be resilient, who know how to hang in when things get hard, you know, because they experience rupture and they know that the world's not going to fall apart, that can be

[A]

restored and repaired, and then hopefully they take the lesson into their own parenting.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If their kids have gaps, it's okay. You know, they missed the important thing that you start a proper noun with a capital letter, like, well, you're the middle kid. So sorry. You know, I. Older ones learn that. Don't you read?

[B]

You know, yeah, they're going.

[A]

I think they're going to feel more okay that once they turn out, however they turn out, that they're going to be like, well, I had some gaps, and it was all right. I love that you brought this up, though, because you do have a. A pretty bold sentence in here where you say, my kids are never responsible for my actions. And then you go through two types of apologies. One is, I'm sorry I yelled at you, but you guys were totally disrespectful and out of control. And you say, that's not an apology. And then you have another good example then of a good apology. The good Apology says this. Hey, I'm really sorry I spoke to you the way I did. I can imagine it probably felt pretty scary to see mom out of control like that. And I know if someone had spoken to me like that, my feelings would have been hurt. I came in here to ask for your forgiveness and also to make sure that you know that my yelling is not your fault. So you say, sure, you guys are out of control, but I could have responded with self control. I could have managed our time better and I could have used the tools I have to calm down. I hate that I hurt you. Will you please forgive me? It's a power of a good apology and the example is right in there. So I think that I'm glad that you brought that up. So if there is an issue, which there's always issues, then you know how to deal with it. One of the other things that you talk about, I think that's so relatable is the hour by hour ordinariness. Folding clothes, packing lunches, facilitating reconciliation after sibling squabbles. Pulling a screaming child close even though the sound is killing our ears. Patiently and during first grade reading assignments, emptying the dishwasher or guiding our kids through chore charts and driving them to soccer practice. Can you talk about how shocking that can be? I feel like that was pretty shocking to me, the ordinariness coming out of working, you know, and some people don't have that. Some people maybe go right into motherhood if they have kids when they're young. But I found it rather shocking. I think I had a really hard time adjusting to that part of it. Can you talk about ways to view that so we can handle it better?

[B]

Better? Yeah, I think. I mean, and I think the context of that quote is talking about pulling the reality of being beloved into those moments, you know, of which really changes them from being monotonous to being really holy. That like taking a kid to soccer practice is really holy work. I mean, you're fulfilling the second greatest commandment. You are loving them, you know, folding their laundry. And I think just that again, that settled sense of identity. And I think those are moments where our self talk can really take a. Take a negative turn of like, I have to do this. Nobody appreciates me. Like, this is I. This is all I am out to. I'm not even using my degree, you know, I mean, you talk. Our brains are really different. Jenny. I do not have a math mind. But like you've got a great mind. You're teaching math, you know, and then. And Then it's just not even part of what you're doing. You're like, what even am I? And what does this work even matter? Nobody sees me, you know, Nobody appreciates me. Look at me on my kid's birthday. Jenny. I really tried. I really did my very best, you know, But I think pulling down the reality that you're the beloved into those everyday moments, which is like a Henry Nouwen concept, is to say God sees me, you know, like. And, like, he sees that I'm doing my best. And that's not even really what matters to him the most. It's less about the things we're doing and more about the way we're being. We could hit the thousand hours outside chart, you know, and if we're functioning in shame the whole time or over correcting our kids because we need them to be perfect, even in the woods, like, that is going to shape them more than whether they're under a ceiling or a sky. You know, our. The way we are being really matters. Have you heard that expression, like, the way of being, that you basically, what is going on inside comes out unintentionally into your actions, and it's perceived by your children or your husband. And sometimes we need people to, like, point that out for us, like, wow, you're being really snippy, or there's a way to fold laundry with love, and there's a way to fold laundry pissed, you know, like. And that will come out based on. Is that a swear? Resting. I've always wondered, should I not say that? There is a way to fold laundry with love, and there is a way to fold laundry upset and vindictively.

[A]

People can message and let me know. I've always wondered. I think maybe I'm just.

[B]

I'm just gonna count on it making me more relatable. Cheers to freedom in Christ. There we go.

[A]

I love what you said, though. Do it in love. It's a reframe. It is loving your neighbor, you know, all the meals that you make and all the noses that you wipe. It's just a different way to look at it. And I feel like God uses everything. You know, I taught math, but more than that, what I got out of teaching high school was that I was gonna homeschool.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Jenny had a really unique experience because I didn't have a classroom, and so I was in the hallways now, I guess I just read this book by Gordon Neufeld, which I hope that's how you pronounce it. It's called hold on to your Kids. And he talked about how in the past teachers were in the hallways, they were out at recess, they were just more connected. And I do agree that by the time I was teaching, which was like in the late 2000s, like that first decade of the 2000s, that it was before iPhones and there were no teachers in the hallways, like, they just would sit in their classrooms. But I was in the hallway because I didn't have a classroom and I had a cart and I had to put that cart. So I was like, oh, it's very vulgar in these hallways. I mean, it is just like shocking.

[B]

People were probably saying the P word

[A]

and more and more. Yes. And yeah. So that's so great. I'm like on the. I'm always on the tail end of a cold. I'm like over here coughing, laughing every time. But that was really useful for me. It was really useful for me to have had that experience and to see otherwise, I think I would have been a lot more idyllic about what is the environment they're actually like. And I was like, this is not what I remember or what I would have considered. I used to say if. If a parent would just go stand in this hallway for one week with their back against the wall, I don't think they'd ever send their kid back.

[B]

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[A]

So that's how God used that for me.

[B]

I love that you're highlighting the importance of being in the hallway, though. And I also love. Have you seen those videos of the principals walking through the halls, high fiving kids?

[A]

And like, so great.

[B]

It's so great. But I think it just highlights Jenny, like, you valuing being in the hallway. Like, I think too, this identity thing provides a reframe for us of what conflict is because really it's an opportunity. Like all of these things, if we're thinking about them in terms of what they mean about us, we're going to miss. It's going to be an inconvenience. It's going to be something we don't want to see, but instead we can see it as opportunities. Like, instead of being like, my kids fight all the time. What does this mean about me? It can be like, okay, we're in a season of conflict. How can I help them learn to navigate conflict in a healthy way? Like, you just press in harder and show up for the holy work that you have to do instead of hating it for what it exposes in you.

[A]

You know, I love it. I love it. So if you're struggling with the hour by hour ordinariness. I don't even know if I said that right the first time. You gotta check it out. The book is called Help I'm Running My Kids A Gospel Guide for the mom who's Desperate for change. The start of a new season always makes me look around and think, how can this house function better? Not fancier, just better. And honestly, Wayfair has become my go to when we're ready to level up a space without overspending, we tackled organization first, like closet systems, garage storage and shelving. For a work from home setup that was slowly being overtaken by stacks of books. Wayfair's filters make it incredibly easy to narrow by dimensions, finish and budget. I could compare pieces side by side, read reviews and feel confident before clicking order. Then we layered in a few lighter touches for spring like updated bedding, simple decor, and a couple pieces for the patio so we're ready to be outside more I love that you can find everything in one place, from big furniture upgrades to functional decor that actually solves a problem. Delivery was fast, assembly was straightforward, and there are even options if you want installation handled for you. It just feels streamlined. Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Budget head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every Home March is when homeschool families start looking ahead. You can almost see the finish line, spring goals, end of year milestones, maybe even testing around the corner. And this is such an important time to reinforce key skills and build confidence before wrapping up the year. If you are thinking about assessments, whether required by your state or simply the benchmarks you set for your family, it's helpful to have a tool that makes review simple and clear. That's where IXL can really shine. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that fits seamlessly into homeschooling. It offers interactive practice across math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged, and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out this time of year is a real time feedback and progress tracking. Kids get instant explanations when they miss something and parents can see exactly where growth is happening and where a little reinforcement might help. It takes the guesswork out of finishing strong. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there. There at the best price. Okay, I have been waiting to say this. Womb Bikes is the official 2026 bike partner of 1000 hours outside. And it just makes sense because here's what I know. When kids fall in love with riding bikes, something shifts. They go from hesitant to flying down the sidewalk with total confidence. And that confidence spills into everything else. These bikes are lightweight, thoughtfully designed and built so kids can actually succeed. The brakes fit their hands. The geometry fits their body bodies. They feel capable right away. And in a world pulling our kids towards screens, bikes pull them toward freedom. So we are kicking off spring with a 100 hour ride challenge. We'll release a special tracker to log 100 hours outside on bikes. And yes, at members. We're working on bringing that right into the 1000 hours outside app. It's going to be so fun if you've got younger riders. The Womb Go bikes are perfect for beginners and come in six bright colors, including a brand new powder pink that just screams spring. If you're working toward your 1000 hours outside this year, a great bike makes it a whole lot easier. Womb designs lightweight bikes built just for kids so they can ride farther and ride happier. Go to womb.com that's w.com and use code outside 10 at checkout for 10 off your bike purchase, excluding the wom, excluding the Womb.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That's outside 10 for 10 [e-mail] One of the things you also talk about is living within your limits. And you talk about this thing I've never heard about before called the Healthy Mind Platter. Can you tell us what that is?

[B]

You're welcome, Jenny. I'm like, it's so helpful to know. Yeah. Basically it's developed by Dan Siegel, but it just kind of gives you a couple of categories, like it for your brain to function optimally, which, like, we know to exist. We need food, we need sleep, we need, you know, I don't know, whatever things to be psychologically healthy. This is just a couple of those that include downtime, that include active time, time, like moving your body. And I just provide it as a checklist for a mom to be like, you are not superhuman. You know, you are an embodied person. And the commandments you've been given, you're supposed to carry out in this body. So you need to take care of it so that you can do it, you know, and so I just asked her to Consider, like, are you getting all these things? And if you're not, like, let's strategize to see how you can, you know? And this is what motivated me to join a gym with childcare as a homeschool moment. I would. I did the peloton for seven years, and then suddenly, Jenny, it wasn't working.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like, and I would usually end up yelling at someone because conflict was happening, and I'm, like, strapped into a bike. You know, it's like the. Please behave for this moment where I'm working out. So, like, in the gym has been one of the best things that ever happened to us, but it was the result of saying, okay, how can I get this active time? You know? And I haven't been able to go to the gym in three days. And I can feel it. It in my nervous system, you know, like, that makes a huge difference in my parenting. And then another one is relational. It's like, time with others. How can you get it? And I think as moms, sometimes in. In certain seasons, we just get this scarcity mentality of, like, I can't get that. That's impossible. But if you're listening, like, and you're a mom, you are a professional strategizer.

[A]

Like, you're.

[B]

You're better at this than anybody. It's all we do all day long is like, okay, I'm gonna solve this problem. Problem all day. And I think in when we are so convinced we don't have it, we stop looking for God's provision of it, you know? So I. I would encourage women to Google it and check it out and say, like, okay, am I getting this? And if not, how can I get this?

[A]

Well, what you should probably do that your publisher would tell you, is to encourage people to pick the book up.

[B]

I don't really care. I'm. But, yeah, okay, don't Google it.

[A]

Just go to page 44 and help. I'm.

[B]

My kids. Page 44. This really fits with your message too, though. Jenny is like, when I was nursing our first son, there's a chair in the hallway, and every single night, I would run into this chair in the dark on the way to nurse my son. And one day, my husband saw me in the kitchen and in my pajama shorts and was like, oh, my gosh, what is happening to your legs? Because they're just, like, covered in these bruises. And I was like. I told him about the chair, and he looked at me just, like, deadpan. I'm sure he was trying to be compassionate, but I felt like a big idiot. And he was just like, abby, move the chair. You know, like, and. And I think in motherhood, we need to think about our sins and shortcomings coming out sideways on our kids, and we need to move the chair. Like, you know, if you're trying not to have sex before you're married, and then you're like, going behind a door and making out with your fiance all the time, like, it's probably not going to go great. And I think as moms, we expect so much of us, ourselves in the moment of temptation and when really what we need to do is walk it back 12 steps, you know, so in that scenario in the car, the story you told at the beginning, I had missed a ton of cues leading up to that moment. I lasted on my kids, you know. But part of avoiding sin or avoiding hurting our kids is avoiding temptation. And we can do that by getting enough sleep, by moving our bodies, by not letting ourselves get so hungry that we lose. The agency of that provides us with the ability to realize, I have choices in this moment other than losing my mind on them or manipulating them or whatever. So I think it's important for us to care for our bodies. And as moms, sometimes in the name of self sacrifice, we don't do the very thing we need to do to love our kids. Well, because self care feels selfish, right? Yeah. When it's actually a way we love our neighbor.

[A]

This healthy mind platter includes actually quite a bit. It. It's more than I was expecting. You know, everyone talks about sleep and food, right? But like this, you said already moving your body, physical time, also focus time. You're like, I think a mom will be listening and be like, focus time. This is time with a specific goal. And you can just see how that would help you so much. Like, you're progressing. There's a little bit going on in your mind besides all of the ordinariness time and quiet reflection, just a little bit of that. Downtime time with no goal. Play time, creativity and connecting time. There's quite a bit here. And you read it and you're like, oh, maybe that's why I feel so awful.

[B]

Hey, but did you hear how many of those things can be accomplished by going outside? Oh, yeah. Playtime, rest time, time with no goal. I mean, and if you go outside as a mom without your phone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With your kids, that's even better because I think some of the temptation is to think, okay, they're occupied. What can I get done?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Versus they are not fighting they're delighting. Whatever. How can I love them? You know, how can I delight in them?

[A]

And I do think then it is really powerful for the parent, too. That's why we do it. It's not like you do it because you should do it. It's like, because it's every. It makes you feel better.

[B]

It really does.

[A]

Check off every single one of them. These movement, focus. Because you're. You're. I mean, I guess you're. You are working on a specific goal. Time and quiet reflection, downtime, playtime and connecting time. Yeah. It hits a lot. That's why I feel pretty good.

[B]

That's it, Jenny, you have done it. We actually just go by Jenny's book. If you feel like you're ruining your kids.

[A]

That's not in my book. But you know, what's interesting to me is so we. We started getting outside in 2011, and our kids were like, three and under. And then it's been a long time. And then I started writing about it in 2013, and basically, like, every book I pick up, I'm like, oh, that's why it works.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, I mean, it was based off of, like, this Charlotte Mason lady.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Angela Hanscom, who's become a friend, who wrote Balanced and Barefoot, but. And some other things. And I've read all these books over the years, but more so it's been like, this seems to work for me. And it's been then, I think, a series of, like, filling in the puzzle pieces as to why. And that would be an example of why.

[B]

That's so cool. It's the healthy mind platter you mentioned before. Just talking about, you know, people that make law out of your suggestion or the heart behind it. I just want you to know that heart really comes through, Jenny, like your. Your heart for others. And you have just helped so many people I know with this message. And I just am really grateful.

[A]

Thanks for saying that. I appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I cheer everyone on.

[B]

You do?

[A]

Sometimes people. It's like the sweetest thing. And I don't. I'm. I'm, like, less in my social media than I used to be. But, you know, especially in the early days, people would send me pictures almost like I was like the grandmother. They would be like, this is us playing in the rain. And I would be like, yes.

[B]

You know, amazing.

[A]

I really want to do is be a cheerleader for whatever you're doing.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Okay, let's talk about this. This is such an important thing that you bring up in help. I'M ruining my kids. And I don't think people bring this up enough. Enough. Motherhood is never stagnant. And so you talk about that. We want to arrive, I think, in life, like, we want to arrive. We want to retire. We want to get here. We want to get that job. And I think it's so important that you address this fact that you never arrive in motherhood because it is constantly in flux and will always be that way.

[B]

Yeah. As soon as you said motherhood's never stagnant, I had this visceral reaction. I just wanted to go, yes. Because I was just talking to a friend yesterday about this. And you mentioned earlier seeing a mom whose kids doing the same thing. It's so powerful to have friends that you really are honest with and share life with and watch parenting, to be like, okay, this is totally normal. And I was talking to her about a struggle with one of my kids and my oldest, and she was like, right on time. That's what she said. She said, he's right on time developmentally to be doing this thing. He's doing that. I'm just like, ugh. But that's the thing, especially with our oldest kids. Right. We've never done it before before.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Every stage they hit, we've never. And I can remember even when they were little, really little Jenny being like, okay, we have finally mastered the two nap schedule. And then they dropped a nap. You know, it's just like. But here's the thing. I think it's supposed to be that way because I. I don't think it's healthy for us to hit a point where we say, I've got it. Like, I. I have arrived. I think perfect parenting is the enemy of faithful parenting. Because when we are trying to need God less, we can't depend on him more. When we are puffed up in pride, we're going to miss our opportunities to repair. We're going to miss our opportunities to respond to a challenge and grow. And each change is going to be perceived as a surprise or as a threat to our security. And so we're not meeting challenges with joy and excitement. We're looking at challenges like. Like me just going, you know, like, this isn't what I want to feel good about myself. But what those changes do is they call us to feel good about ourselves. Not because of what we do or how much we know, but because of God's love for us. And that is the foundation. That's, like, where we rest. And I think, I love. There's a verse In James that says if any of you lacks wisdom that we should ask God because he gives generally. This is my favorite heart. Without reproach that he's not looking at us like, you're so stupid. You should have figured this out already. He's just like, here, have some more wisdom. And when we are going to him in prayer continually, we don't feel alone, you know, and when. And he's given us people around us to say, hi, is your 10 year old doing this? You know, like is. Is your five year old yelling, your

[A]

kid doesn't know the days of the week?

[B]

Actually that was it. We were in our tutor meeting for my co op yesterday and I'm sobbing, Jenny, just sobbing like I think I need to send my kids to school. They don't know the days of the

[A]

week and those songs but they know the timeline song.

[B]

I know they're like, well his, that son's tutor was in there and she was like, Abby, he knows the words to every song, he knows all the science. Like she just was affirming. And then they all started listing their kids gaps and then they all started affirming my kids character and, and reminded me like he can bag groceries but like the goal is to raise a person who is kind, who sees others. And that's what they started doing. They just started rattling off like times where he has been just so kind, so thoughtful. I mean he's truly the best. And if I'm focused on what his not knowing the days of the week means about me, then I'm not going to be seeing that, you know, know I'm going to be discouraged and distracted. So props to my community, man.

[A]

Wow. What a power. That's a really powerful story, Abby. Too bad the book's already written.

[B]

It's okay. I signed a two book deal.

[A]

So file this one away for the next book. What a story of the power of your community. Not only are they able to invest in your child, but they know him well enough that they can come back to you and say, hey, these are the things that we see that are so positive. I love that I keep talking about this Gordon Neufeld book because it was so just shocking to me reading it. Hold on to your kids. And you know, he talked about that. That's one of the biggest things that we've lost is kids are oriented to their peers and they're not oriented to adults and they need to be oriented to adults to have a firmer foundation.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And that we should have a lot of adults that they can you know, look to that, that help guide them, them and we just don't have that. We often don't have extended family and certainly in so many cases don't have that. Like your CC community. I love that, that they were so affirming. So talking about crying, the phrase in his book, Gordon's book is tears of futility. And I'm like, oh, I really like this phrase, tears of utility. And he says in life like everyone basically has to cry tears of futility, that this is not going to change. And I remember, you know, when our kids were younger and you're like how constantly like how can I make this better? How can I make it so dinner time's not so stressful. I've got the crying toddler and the crying baby and like at some point maybe you just cry tears of futility. It's not going to change. You're going to accept it. It's going to be hard for a while. And so you use this phrase that your grandma said, burping the pot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tell us about that phrase. I think that's a good one.

[B]

I love Grammy. I miss her so much. I'll probably cry right now. But this is something she used to say. She, she said we have to burp the pot every now and then so that the, the water doesn't like boil over, you know. So like if you, if you grill, you know, you have to burp the grill before you open it or you're gonna like get a face full of flames. And a pot is the same way if you're boiling water under a lid, if you don't burp the pot, it's gonna spill all over. And I think one of the, I think in that context I'm calling moms to consider their own grief, their own circumstances. And when, when we're wrestling through it's so taxing on our nervous system. And do you know what I just learned, Jenny? I was at a, a national radio interview and the guest right before me was like a neuro coach and she said that our tears have hormones in them, stress hormones. And that our body is releasing stress hormones when we cry. This is like you being like, oh, that's why it works. Like Grammy didn't know the neuroscience behind it but she knew we have to let those tears out, you know. And my friend Maggie, her, when her mom died, she would schedule a time every time she pulled the laundry out of the dryer, which was during her kids rest time, she would lay on the warm laundry and she would cry and then she would get up and fold it and go on with her day. And it was so smart because it kept her hard things from coming out sideways on her kids. And I think sometimes, especially for Christian moms, we mistake Christianity for stoicism or Buddhism, and we're just like, I need to. To not feel. I need to be, like, flatline, totally in control all the time, you know? But, like, your kids live in a fallen world, and they need to know how to navigate hard things and to see. I mean, yesterday one of my kids saw me crying. He's like, what is wrong? I'm like, this is. I mean, my personal life is insanely hard right now, and this diagnosis is really hard. There are some other things that are really hard. And I told him, God gave us an entire book of songs in the Bible to sing, and a lot of them are songs of lament. We're supposed to cry about it. Jesus wept in outrage beside the tomb of Lazarus. And, like, if you're listening to this and you are walking through, like, childhood cancer, maybe you have cancer. Maybe, like, your kid has autism and is doing some really destructive things to cope, like hitting themselves or banging their head against the wall. Like, maybe one of your kids so wrestling with shame in their performance, they scratch themselves or, like, rub themselves on the carpet till it burns. Like, those kinds of things are worth crying about, you know? And you have a God who's sitting there ready to hear you, who. Who the Bible says bottles up your tears, and then one day he's going to wipe them all away. And that's our hope that, like, pulls us forward and keeps us from quitting. But I think in the meantime, we cannot expect this day to be that day, you know, and it's important for us to acknowledge I. There's this, like, trend of, like, stop journaling the things that are hard and move your focus to the things that are positive. And I'm all for, like, practicing saying three things you're thankful for at the end of the day. Whatever. Like, I know and understand neuropathways, but also, it's so important for us to grieve what is grievous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and to really let that out so that we're not just muscling through and we're not walking around with a taut nervous system when we live in a house with people who regularly scream. You know, it's just, like, not a great recipe. So, yeah, it is important to cry. It's important to burp the pot. And I needed that release yesterday with my friends. And you know what else I needed? The hug that they gave me after that helped me. Me. And I parented better that day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah, There's a lot there that's very layered.

[B]

So much, but really good.

[A]

A lot to think through. Grammy said that in the same way that we might lift a pot lid to let steam out so that the stew won't boil over, we sometimes need to make time and space to cry so that our suppressed emotions won't blow the lid off and spill stuff all over. And then you have this beautiful part in the book where you said motherhood is filled with hardship and the range is broad. God, the women in my world are doing the already challenging work of motherhood amid some really hard things. Grieving the death of a husband, experiencing the loss of a child, suffering the sting of an extramarital affair, parenting a child who bangs his head against the wall every day, fostering high schoolers, carrying a baby who likely won't survive outside the womb, caring for aging parents, grieving the loss of a friend with terminal cancer, navigating job loss, dealing with chronic illness in themselves and illness in their career. Kids, brain tumors, heart defects, leukemia. These are real women in my real world. I've thought about them as I crafted the section, and I've thought about YouTube. It's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So shed your tears.

[B]

Yeah. One of the things I've prayed for is that God would prevent me from committing theological malpractice by, like, saying truths in a really trite way. Way. And that chapter is about suffering. Because when we're talking about how we change, one of the ways we change is by how we experience hardship. It's like part of the biblical recipe. But those really. I mean, as you read off that list, I pictured those women's faces. And it's so much better to listen when people are going through something really hard. But I couldn't not write a chapter on hardship and it in a book about how biblical change happens. And so, yeah, I hope that the tenderness comes through in that portion. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're like, so in an emotional space. And then you said theological malpractice. And I was like, that's kind of a funny phrase.

[B]

Here's a futility theological. So many good, pithy phrases here.

[A]

Burp the pot.

[B]

Burp the pot.

[A]

As we're. As we're ending with phrases and we're wrapping it up. And this is one that I told my girls. We've got three girls. I told them about. Ih they liked it.

[B]

So that hurts.

[A]

Let's wrap it up with IH oh,

[B]

it hurts so bad.

[A]

And it hurts is also IH oh, yes, it hurts.

[B]

Okay, so this story is what I tell. It's, like, so sad to tell. I. My sisters would do this thing to me when we were growing up. I hope they're listening. I love y'. All. I forgive you. They would say, I ate. And I didn't know what it meant, but it stood for ignore her. And, like, I literally would wonder if I had ceased to exist. Like, if they. If, like, no one could hear me, no one could see me. I mean, we're talking for long periods of time that they would pretend like. Like, I did not exist. And it messed with me. But the point of sharing this whole story is that, like, when my kids ignore me, it hits a raw spot. Like, it. And it. I go into fight or flight. And that was, like, a little t. Trauma of my childhood. Like, this recurrent. And they would call it bullying. And I'll call it bullying. Like, this recurrent experience of being. Being left out, unseen, unheard. And so as an adult, it is a trigger. And here's the thing. Knowing that changes the way I'm parenting. Because when my kids ignore me, when I have to call their names seven or eight times instead of panicking, and what do we do when we feel ignored? We get loud. We become more visible. We. I'm going to get your attention. And I'm aware of that. So I can. I can sense it in my nervous system. And I will take a deep breath, and I will say, way, this is not childhood, Abby. You know, Like, I am not. I am real. I'm taking up real space. Like, this is a real fear of mine, of, like, I have disappeared. I mean, it was small, you know, but in that moment, instead of being ruled by that emotion which rubs. It is so exacerbated by that childhood little true trauma. I can walk over to my kid, put my hand on their shoulder, and be like, hi, can you hear me? Me? And it's about them instead of about me. And so I shared that story, and there are some others, you know, but just to say being aware of how our past impacts our parenting is really important. And in the book, I encourage women to make a timeline of their life, to consider what was happening when. Because. And this is so much to unpack. But, like, when our kids hit the ages that we were when we experienced trauma, something happens in the way that we respond to them.

[A]

Them.

[B]

And sometimes the ways that we are trying to protect them are really hurting them. And so it's really important for us to consider whether we're processing with a therapist, a friend, whatever. Like, how has the ways that I have experienced wounds and gaps. How is that showing up in my parenting? And sometimes making those connections can be really powerful because it really protects our kids to be like, wow, you are not doing this to me. Me. This. This reaction is disproportionate. You're just being a kid, and then instead of growing up feeling like they were too much for us, we can be present with them in a way that really preserves their sense of self and helps them learn to love and take care of themselves and to care for others instead of feeling like they need to make themselves small.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot to get out of. I ate my girls. Got a kick out of it. I was like, guess what? I just read her out.

[B]

Please tell me they're not doing it to each other. Three is a hard number for girls. It's a hard number for girls. Yeah.

[A]

Ours are great, though. We're like, there's boys in between it, actually. It's like a really. It's a fun little dynamic in our home.

[B]

That's wonderful. I love boys.

[A]

Abby, what a book. Help. I'm ruining my kids. A gospel guide for the mom who's desperate for change. Thanks so much for being here.

[B]

Thanks for having me. This is a pure delight.

[A]

All right. We did it. It.

[B]

Jenny, I didn't even say that. You're one of my favorite interviewers. I just, like, am so tickled to get to talk to you, truly. And I love your podcast.

[A]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.