1KHO 764: Holding Your Ground in the Age of AI | Charlie Tyrell, The AI Doc or How I Became an Apocaloptimist

Summary

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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 764 - Holding Your Ground in the Age of AI

Featuring: Charlie Tyrell, Co-Director of “The AI Doc or How I Became an Apocaloptimist”

Date: April 10, 2026
Host: Ginny Yurich (occasionally appears as “Jenny Eric” in transcript)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the profound and fast-evolving impact of artificial intelligence (AI) on our world, exploring both its promises and perils through the eyes of Charlie Tyrell, co-director of the acclaimed documentary The AI Doc or How I Became an Apocaloptimist. The conversation orbits around Tyrell’s filmmaking journey, the motivations and anxieties behind tackling such a huge topic, and the urgency for everyday people to find voice, agency, and community in shaping AI’s trajectory. The episode combines practical encouragement for personal action with reflective, sometimes philosophical musings on our era’s seismic shifts, especially for parents and families.

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Main Themes and Key Insights

1. Navigating the Anxiety and Awe of the AI Age

• Tyrell and Yurich reflect on the immense power—and underlying unease—of AI’s integration into daily life. Tyrell labels his experience and attitude as “apocaloptimism,” balancing fear with hope and agency.
• Memorable Moment: Yurich raves about the documentary’s aesthetic innovation, pointing to stop-motion, unique fonts, and attention to detail as a way the film “cares for” its viewers ([08:48]).

“It’s phenomenally interesting… the special effects and, like, the art, and they just like the visual of it. It’s so impressive.” – Ginny Yurich [01:07]

2. Personal Storytelling as a Focal Lens

• The directors, both expecting children during the making of the film, used impending fatherhood as a narrative lens to explore concerns about AI’s legacy for the next generation ([04:42]–[08:11]).
• The film intentionally brings universal resonance, as Tyrell describes: “People care about people, and they’re worried about what the world’s going to look like for those people that they care about.” [08:11]

3. AI’s Pervasiveness—Opting Out is Not an Option

• AI is embedded everywhere, from Amazon suggestions to automated email responses. Even those who don’t consciously interact with AI are affected by its presence, as illustrated by seniors at a screening wanting to know “if we’re going to lose our water” or “pay our electric bills” ([09:18]–[10:42]).
• Tyrell stresses the importance of active participation and collective action, warning that by failing to weigh in, “someone else is going to decide for you” [10:42].

“If you don't decide what you want this technology to do for you, someone else is going to decide for you.” – Charlie Tyrell [10:42]

4. Practical Agency and Collective Action

• The episode emphasizes millions of small decisions—default settings, purchases, emails, conversations—as the practical ground where “agency” is exercised ([15:07]–[17:17]).
• “Voting with your dollars” is vital. For example, parents refusing to buy algorithm-driven toys can steer markets and technological development ([21:26]–[23:50]).

“Voting with your dollars is a huge, huge thing.” – Charlie Tyrell [22:10]

5. The Insane Pace of Change—Knowledge Gaps and Overwhelm

• The hosts discuss how the breakneck speed of AI development is “catching people off guard,” making it hard to stay informed or make thoughtful choices ([24:23]–[34:00]).
• The documentary walks viewers through tech’s acceleration: “1993, no computer in the home… 1998, only nerds knew what the Internet was… Now [those kids] have AI in their pockets.” [34:00]

“The pace is just incredibly fast. And so maybe, maybe people might want to… be aware that there are futurists. I didn’t even know that was a thing.” – Ginny Yurich [34:29]

6. Futurists, Speculation, and the Limits of Prediction

• The conversation moves to futurists like Arthur C. Clarke and Ray Kurzweil. Tyrell draws a line between accurate predictions and lucky guesses, but also acknowledges the imaginative value of long-range thinking ([29:28]–[32:26]).

7. Promise Versus Peril—The Stakes of AI

• The film and this episode continually bounce between optimism and doom, reflecting the broad spectrum of expert and layperson opinion.
• Analogy to past generational anxieties—Cuban missile crisis, Y2K, and social media—frames AI as the latest, potentially most consequential “scary thing” ([37:26]–[38:05]).

8. Invisible Costs—Environmental and Social Impact

• AI’s physical infrastructure has hidden costs: massive energy use, water consumption, rising living expenses for nearby communities, and indirect subsidies for tech giants ([47:13]–[48:20]).

“Millions of gallons of water a day. And then it was like the community, their electric and gas payments were getting higher… We’re subsidizing some of the wealthiest corporations in the world.” – Ginny Yurich [47:43]

9. Practical Action Steps & Resources

• Viewers are encouraged to visit theaidocgetinvolved.com for ideas on engagement and agency ([15:07], [59:36]).
• The film itself is positioned as a “first date” with AI—meant to provoke questions, conversations, and a next step, not just inform ([45:49]).

“The goal of a first date is not to get married. The goal of a first date is to get a second date.” – Cited by Charlie Tyrell [45:52]

10. What About Our Kids? Uncertainty in Parenting and Careers

• The parenting lens comes back: How to prepare children for a future that will be unrecognizable from today? How do you plan education or a career path when technology is upending entire industries ([50:15]–[56:07])?

“Do you send them to college for a job that might not exist?” – Ginny Yurich [50:15]

• Tyrell cautions against rigid predictions: “A lot of it’s going to be the same… but there’s also, like, new tools that they’ll have better understanding of.” [56:55]

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Notable Quotes & Moments w/ Timestamps

• On Creative Purpose:
  “Filmmaking is such a last person standing kind of business… if you can just stay in the room long enough, you'll be staying in the room.” – Charlie Tyrell [56:55]

• On Generational Change:
  “It used to be that information was passed top down, like from the elders down. But now in a lot of ways it’s coming up because these kids have TikTok…” – Ginny Yurich [51:12]

• On Money and Incentives:
  “If we want to use AI as a technology to cure every disease… we can work that way. But if we want to make the greatest money-making machine ever made by human beings, then yeah—it’s going to do whatever it can to figure out how to be profitable.” – Charlie Tyrell [43:27]

• On Social Media as a Warning:
  “Look at what happened with social media… it was this offer of connectivity... And now it’s not that. Now people are just kind of drawn in, sucked in. There’s an attention economy out there and it’s really just not what it could have been or should have been.” – Charlie Tyrell [39:23]

• On the Value of Human-Made Art:
  “The handmade nature of it is undeniable… it’s a little messy, and there’s thumbprints, and it’s… human being hours and multiple talents.” – Charlie Tyrell [53:34]

• On Existential Change:
  “Will I ever attach my brain to the cloud? …I would rather talk about it, like, beforehand.” – Ginny Yurich [34:38]

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Segment Timestamps

• Film Introduction & Tyrell’s Background: [01:07]–[04:42]
• Fatherhood, Anxiety & Finding the Film’s Angle: [04:42]–[08:11]
• AI’s Spread & Generational Concerns: [09:18]–[15:07]
• Agency, Small Actions & Buying Choices: [15:07]–[23:50]
• Futurism, Speculation & Speed of Change: [24:23]–[34:38]
• Promise vs. Peril—Social & Environmental Impact: [36:49]–[48:20]
• Military, Work, Parenting in an AI World: [49:07]–[56:33]
• Creativity, Human Connection, Career Anxiety: [53:34]–[58:27]
• Awareness, Taking the Next Step: [59:27]–[60:28]
• Closing—Childhood Outdoor Memory: [60:28]–[62:11]

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone swings between wonder, informed anxiety, and proactive encouragement. Both host and guest champion curiosity, awareness, and dialogue—rejecting defeatism and emphasizing the power of millions of small, intentional actions. The episode models “apocaloptimism”: embracing the uncertainty and peril of mass-change while choosing to seek out agency, community, and good.

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For further learning, watch The AI Doc or How I Became an Apocaloptimist in a group, and visit theaidocgetinvolved.com for practical avenues to make your voice heard. As Tyrell notes, “These are conversations that have to happen. They have to happen together.” [60:00]

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Transcript

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

We have had so many guests on this show talk about how powerful the outdoors can be for kids, especially kids with ADHD or different ways of learning and processing the world. And if you are raising a child with adhd, dyslexia, a language disorder, or really any kind of learning difference, I want to share a podcast that I think you'll really appreciate. It's called Everyone Gets a Juice Box. It's parents just being honest with each other in a really safe, welcoming space about the highs and lows of raising neurodivergent kids. And what I love about it is how real it is. There was one story about a mom who had this big career running a major podcast division, and she realized she hadn't been home to see her daughter before bed for weeks. And at the same time, she was starting to notice these little moments, like her daughter freezing up during a simple preschool performance and just having that gut feeling like something's different here. And then all the doubt that comes with that. Like, other people saying, she seems fine. Well, you're sitting here thinking, but I'm her parent and I know her. This mom eventually stepped back in and reconnected and created little games together just to help her daughter communicate better. It's such a good reminder that connection doesn't have to be complicated. It just has to be intentional. So if that interests you, go check it out to listen. Search for Everyone Gets a Juice Box in your podcast app. That's Everyone Gets a Juice Box.

[Jenny Eric]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Eric. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I have just seen a phenomenally good. It's so Good documentary. It's phenomenally interesting, but the, like, the special effects and, like, the art, and they just like the visual of it. It's so impressive. It's called the AI Doc, or How I Became an Apocalyptimist and one of the directors, because it's two as a co director. Is that right? Okay, Charlie Tyrell is here. Charlie, wow. Are you so impressed with yourself?

[Charlie Tyrell]

I'm so impressed with you, Jenny. You've got just wonderful energy. This is awesome. I mean, all the. I think everyone has normally has their NPR kind of energy for a podcast, and you're. You're purely Ginny, so I like you. Let's be friends.

[Jenny Eric]

Well, can we talk about the anxiety mountain?

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah. This.

[Jenny Eric]

This documentary, I. And that, like, the art flips in the books and like, the part where, like, the husband talking to the wife, but it's like I mean, I hadn't seen this since I was a kid. Like one of those flip books where you can flip the nose and the mouth and like.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

Oh, my gosh, it was incredibly done. I would love if you could give people your backstory. This isn't your first documentary, but this is your first feature as director. What's your background in film and how'd you get interested?

[Charlie Tyrell]

I mean, nothing too exciting. I wish I had, like, a more interesting origin story. But I grew up loving art and I grew up loving films. And maybe at some point my limitations as a visual artist became apparent and film became a way for me to work with a lot of other talented people, I should say, where I can, you know, okay, I can't really draw as well as some other people, but I can work with someone that can. And then I can have an idea and we can share that idea and we can kind of get there. So I'm by nature a pretty shy person. Definitely don't have the best social skills. And filmmaking is, of course, something that requires you to be, you know, not so I didn't learn that until I jumped into filmmaking that you kind of need to figure out how to communicate, especially as a director, and you need to figure out how to work with people. And it's something that I've definitely had to navigate with challenges how to. How to be a human being with other humans. And luckily, I really love it. Like, I love the way that I get to work and the way that I get to collaborate with others and including the people on this film. And it's just. Yeah, it's hard, but it's also wonderful. So I don't know if I. That answered the question, but you must have.

[Jenny Eric]

You must have really grown through the making of this film because there were so many people involved. I mean, you got Sam Altman, you know, he's come. You've got all like, whoa. You know, just interviewing the sort of top tier people who are involved with AI and it was just person after person after person. Okay. I don't know all the terminology. So would you say you co directed it with Daniel?

[Charlie Tyrell]

I co directed with Daniel Rohr, yeah. Yeah.

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

Okay.

[Jenny Eric]

So you and Daniel co direct this film and it's about AI. So can you talk about the steps toward. Because I know you have other films that you've done in the past, the steps toward, like, really landing on an idea, you know, like. Yeah, I mean, this. And this is a huge topic. It's actually, I think, a really bold one to take because even Simon said in the documentary, you know, the things that we're going to talk about now, in 18 months, we're already going to be past that.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Mm. I. I mean, this technology as a subject is just riddled with analogies for comparison. So I'm probably going to repeat myself from. Or some of my colleagues that. In the ways that we speak about it. But I think it's actually Rower who said, like, making a film about AI is like someone telling you, hey, make a movie about transportation. Like, it's like, okay, where, like, what part of it? What, like, where do you want to narrow down? So when we kind of first started talking about this project, which was brought to Daniel by one of the film's producers, Daniel Kwan, who's very outspoken about AI and the concerns about where it's going, and it's a real kind of focal point of his, he reached out to Rohr about maybe doing a documentary together, because he was like, I have this concern. I have the story I want to tell. I don't think it's something I feel comfortable directing. And for the record, Daniel. Daniel Kwan can direct a documentary. He would do just fine. But he reached out to Daniel because they were alumni from the same year of the Academy Awards, Daniel won for Navalny, and Kwan won a million Oscars with the Everything Everywhere All At Once team, if you're familiar with that beautiful film. And so Ro and I, we're both pals from Toronto, and we were kind of hanging out that summer and talking about things and, you know, figuring out where to collaborate on each other's projects. And that's when, you know, go back to where I was, where Quan reached out to Rower, and he said, okay, like, I'm interested in considering this, but I'd like to work with the co director, and I'd like that to be Charlie. So. Holy moly. He basically picked me up from a bus stop for this movie because I was in indie shorts and stuff before this and. And all that. And, yeah, as a topic, it was something I was developing more and more concern about, you know, what is this world that we're going into and what's it going to look like? And when Daniel and I were talking about kind of approach to this in early days, I said, yeah, you know, like, one thing that's especially freaking me out with AI is I'm actually having a kid in January, and I don't know what world they're going to have. And then Rower's like, oh, I'm having a kid in January, too. So Long story short, our children are born a week apart, basically. So we decided with the rest of the team, I think it was Jonathan1, who first suggested as maybe an avenue to explore the story through, but through the lens of fatherhood and impending fatherhood, and to tell the story that way, as becoming a parent in this new kind of seismic shift to our world is maybe a unique way to tell that story. So, yeah, Daniel was very graciously the. The dad on camera, and I got to be the one off camera, and. And I having an anxiety mountain inside of my fragile little heart, as well as a lot of the sensibilities that Daniel's expressing and concerned about through the film were the same ones I had. So we had a real kind of camaraderie through that and to tell the story. And it became the avenue that we decide to try to look at this story through. Because ultimately it's going to. Not just anyone who's a parent, not just anyone who's planning on having kids, but people care about people, and they're worried about what the world's going to look like for those people that they care about.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, absolutely. Here's what's super interesting. So, you know, you talk a lot in the book. Not in the book. I interview authors all the time. You talk a lot in the. Back in the documentary. You know, it is through this lens of, like, I'm having a child and, you know, you're sitting across. Well, Daniel is sitting across from San Altman, and he's like, I'm gonna have a kid, you know. You know, does this seem like a good time to have a kid? You know, and. And some of the people, they. I mean, they take so long to respond. It is so well done. The timing, the cutscenes. We've been trying to watch a documentary a week with our kids, like on Sundays, you know, just as a learning thing.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Amazing.

[Jenny Eric]

Now I was like, I have never seen anything this good. The font, you know, the. I mean, it was just so. In some ways, like, you feel cared for because someone put so much work into the details of this thing. I was so blown away. And so even just the timing of, like, the different people's looks, I couldn't even, you know, like, it just says so much when he goes, is this a good time to have a kid? And then it's just like, silence, you

[Charlie Tyrell]

know, like long pause.

[Jenny Eric]

Right. Okay, but here's the thing, Charlie. So I sat. When I watched this documentary in the theater, I sat next to three seniors.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Okay?

[Jenny Eric]

So they're. You Know, they're older, they had white hair. And so. And I'm like, scribbling notes, you know, like no one's ever had seen anybody in a movie theater with a notebook. I'm scribbling notes into afterward. And I was right next to them. And so afterward. And I was curious, Charlie, because I was like, well, what would. Why. They were three sisters. I asked them and they, you know, they didn't live super close. They get together every once in a while. And what they chose to do with their time was to come see the AI doc. So this, you know, this documentary. And I. So I asked, why did you choose this? And here's what they said. They said, it's 20, 26. We hardly know anything about AI but we're seeing it everywhere. And they said, we want to know if we're going to lose our water. I want to know if I'm going to. Able to pay my electric bills. And I was like, oh. I was like, from the spec, you know, from. From that Ying age all the way through, this is affecting everyone. So can you talk about that part of it? This is something that came up in the documentary where the people that you're talking to, all these experts, they're saying the train has left the station because incentives drive this technology. Everyone's in a race with all of the other countries. And so what they say is if you don't participate, it will affect you anyway. I mean, that's kind of a gloomy thing.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, yeah. No, and. And I mean, to be even more specific with it is like, if you do not decide what you want this technology to do for you, someone else is going to decide for you. And it's one of those things. It's one of those daunting, impossible tasks with no clear answer. But on the other hand, it's. To ignore it is a degree of just lying down and dying as well. Not. Not. I shouldn't say dying, but. Or not necessarily dying, but, you know, it's. It's. If you don't want to be involved, then you're not going to be involved. And in what the conversation is. And even. Even in moments where you might feel powerless and even in putting in effort that still renders you feeling powerless or ineffective, being silent about it, being inactive about it, even in the. It's one of those things that is going to be done in the correct way through millions upon millions of small decisions and tasks. And if I believe in collective action, and I believe in collective good, no matter what you see in the News and no matter what, like, this is maybe not directly connected, but there was an interview with Daniel Radcliffe that I saw a few months ago where he's being interviewed about parenting. And the interviewer said something to the effect of like, oh yeah, you must be really tired, like, because you've got a baby at home and wow, aren't they so exhausting? And he kind of shrugged off the question like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I've been working since I was a child. I'm used to being tired. And he said this really wonderful notion of that I definitely identify with where he's just like, what you mostly hear about parenting babies is bad stuff. So you think it's all bad, but that's just because the really good things of which there are kind of more of, are really hard to describe. And I think that I'm, like I said, I think I'm kind of trending into a dangerous off tangent, off off topic, tangent territory here. But I'm sending it back to my beliefs, which is I do believe in this common good. And I am by nature quite cynical and quite defensive of, you know, holding on to the expectation that things will go bad. But if you don't believe in good. And it was actually Rower who we had this wonderful conversation mid production where he said by becoming a parent, you have to default to being actionable towards the positive. Like if you're, if you're, if you're on a boat that's going down, you have to believe, okay, there's a way off, there's a boat and there's a way to survival. Because, because I'm not just dealing with my own survival, I'm dealing with my kids survival. And they believe, I believe in a place in the world for them. So it's, it's that where, you know, cynicism is important and being critical is important. And I'm not talking about being naively optimistic here because it is going to be a lot of work, but this technology is absolutely going to ingrain into everything that we do. Maybe not, but probably. And in everything that we do, we have decisions and actions that we can take to. Sometimes it's saying yes and sometimes it's saying no. Sometimes it's making suggestions and sometimes it's taking greater actions in forms of, you know, I'm not going to get specific because I don't want to put myself in a hole here, but it's different for everyone. You know, if you work for an employer and they're using, deploying AI into your workplace in A way that you don't agree, have a conversation with them, don't just let it happen because this is happening. And if you are interacting with even a business that you patron and there and you find a way that the technology is being used in a way that disagrees with your sensibilities, that is a place where you maybe want a human being where they're putting an automated, you know, large language model, even if it's a receptionist. Speak to that. Point out your own ethics, point out your own morals and then we can maybe steer this technology into a way that serves that rather than, you know, turns into just a digital mall all the time.

[Jenny Eric]

It is, I mean it's definitely an eye opening film because the, the part about, and I think people say this sometimes so I can just opt out. But I, I interviewed this guy who was talking about like even if you're shopping on Amazon, like all the things that are suggested for you, that's happening through AI, you know, and, and so you have to, it's important I think to at least be aware that to start and you can get involved too because you have the AI doc get involved.com where go and sign up and so and it will give you ideas of just ways that you can have a voice and make a difference. Because you talk about how it's like the top of the mountain are seems to be these five, you know, CEOs. It's like Elon Musk and Sam Altman and the other ones, I didn't know their names but Zuckerberg obviously everybody. And then there was, then there was Anthropic.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Anthropic Amadi.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah. And so then they, you know, several of them came and interviewed with you. And so there's a thought to be like, oh my gosh, these are like the richest of the rich and how could I ever have any of a say? And I mean that's pretty defeatist feeling.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yep. Yeah. I mean if like I said Gmail just suddenly was making suggestions and writing out replies for me in my emails and I didn't ask for that, do I feel empowered to like, oh, I can just call up Google or Gmail and say like, hey, turn this off? No, like I didn't feel like I had any voice in that I was able to find the way to go into the settings and you know, turn it off, but do I feel like throwing a little complaint into their inbox is really going to steer the ship? No. But again that's the cynical reaction to me and the collective action believing action to me is like, oh, if I do, I actually ended up writing a notice through one of their portals. And, yeah, if enough people do that, then it's hard. But it's really hard to organize too. It's really hard to.

[Jenny Eric]

Sure.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Find the other people that align with you. So it's like I said, it's, it's going to be millions upon millions of small actions.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah. And, and just, you know, the line in the sand of like, I'm not. This is not going to affect my parenting. I'm not. I do think that there are lines that you can draw and collectively that would help steer it. So if all the parents are like, we're buying AI toys, we're not going to buy toys that are algorithmically driven. You know, so VTech makes something and nobody buys it. I mean, I, I do think that that matters.

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

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[Jenny Eric]

the thing that really changed my mind about it was a fiction book I read Charlie. It's called Only the Dead. What a title. The author is named Jack Carr. It's actually, like, right there.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

The title comes from this sentence, Only the dead will see the end of war. Basically, like, that war is kind of like a big business, and there's always going to be all of this, you know, fighting. And in the book, that doesn't have anything to do with anything. But in the book, AI is used in the warfare, and it's like, in the person's ear, and they're like, turn left. Here's where you go in this building, you know, because it has all the layouts and it can sense and. And when I read that Charlie, I was like, oh, this isn't going anywhere. There's no way this is going anywhere. Because no country can sit back on their laurels and be like, oh, I hope we don't get beat in the AI race.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yep.

[Jenny Eric]

But even so, I can choose not to buy an AI toy.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yep. Yeah. Voting with your dollars is a huge, huge thing. Right. And that includes, if you subscribe to an LLM, like, you know, do the research to. Or find kind of the leaders that align with your values to maybe kind of have. Have a bit of a passport in where to align yourself with. By that, I mean, if you find. Find the person who endorses it that you trust, and whether that's a friend or whether that's a public figure. But because the research on finding out where the money comes from for some of these companies and where they're putting some of their technologies into is. Can be pretty hazy, it can be pretty hard to find out that, like, oh, this company, actually, they have this and then this and then this, and, oh, then suddenly they're, you know, involved in nefarious activities. That's the. That's the nature of capitalism, where there are all these different webs and companies that can spring up and one can do one thing while keeping the other not liable over here. But by giving your dollars to the quote, unquote, not liable one, you're actually enabling them to do something way off here and maybe way off base with your ethics. So what I'm saying is, I get it. That research into knowing, like, where to vote with your dollars is hard, but the information is out there and there is help, even if it's Reddit threads or podcasts or, you know, conversations with other people and sharing your information that you've been able to find. Voting with your dollars is definitely important. And it's important for almost all markets, including clothing, including, you know, book publishers, too. Right. Like, there are ones that you shouldn't. Ones you shouldn't buy from.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, it's great messaging. And, you know, I talked to this guy earlier today. He's like, he's got what's called a chuck wagon. I'm like, I've never even heard of that. But it's like from like the 19, early 1900s, late 1800s. And he, like, goes around and he like, cooks over fire, you know, with this Dutch oven, I was like, let's do more of that, you know. Okay, Military gonna use AI. Fine. I'm gonna be out with my Dutch oven, you know, and. And I. It does matter, the millions of little things, because you talk about. And I think if you're one of like these older women that were there so many. I mean, it's just so hard to keep up with it. That's one of the things that comes up a lot in the documentary is

[Charlie Tyrell]

the pace so overwhelming.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, the pace is so fast. You talk about how this is just the beginning, you know. Chat2ChatGPT2, this is from the documentary, could barely write a paragraph. But by chat GBT4, it was like passing the bar exam in the top 10%. So the pace is catching people off guard was the phraseology. But I, I think that by you know, spending 90 minutes on this documentary, you're going to have a really good sense of the topics to talk about. You're going to have a good sense of, like, a better sense of maybe where you stand on it and really the knowledge that it is going to move forward. So you have to make some decisions in your own life about what that's going to look like and how you're going to adopt it or not adopt it. Because you gave like this, okay. You're like, there's two options. We could let it rip, which, like, anybody can use it. But then you're like, well, that includes terrorists. You know, I'm like, is that, you know, is that a good situation? Well, there's really three options. Let it rip, shut it down. So, like, you know, only a couple companies are using it, but they're like, that also feels really risky. And then slow it down. But then you're like, well, that's not really an option either. Because if, you know, if this country doesn't it, then another country is. So it's really helpful for you to understand, like, the Chinese Communist Party has deep seek and Taiwan is the one who's producing the. The microchips. So I'm glad, like, oh, like the old women know it now. Anybody who's watching is going to get a sense can you talk about. So we're staying positive. It's positive. And this Peter guy came on. He had a very friendly face and he was like this great time to have a kid. I mean, you know, what's better than today? Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow is going to be better than today. Great. You know, so we're staying optimistic. However, I do want to talk about like these couple situations where AI has figured out like how to blackmail.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's really compelling what it can do. And I, you know, maybe a little bit tin foil. Foil Hattie of me. But sometimes its ability to say and do things that are a bit more thought provoking could be part of, you know, its own marketing to make it seem like it's more powerful and mysterious and unknowable. But yeah, the capabilities of these systems are. I mean, when I was a kid, you never really thought that these things would be possible because it was more lent over to fictional science fiction, whatever. Like this is a characterization of a robot in a movie rather than real life. And now it's. Yeah, now it's spilling into real life. And I don't think that we were. And also just kind of seemingly so quickly, not completely out of nowhere, but before we could adapt to it. Because most technology, you know, look at going back to transportation.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah.

[Charlie Tyrell]

When cars came out, there were version that weren't really necessarily better than, you know, horses and horse drawn carriages, but it existed. And then the next version, it was years and decades before it was as common as it became. And this technology is just like poof. In, in a couple short years, it's. Everyone has it whether they know it or not. Because if you basically, if you have a smartphone, you have AI and if you have a laptop or a computer, it's there. If you watch television now it's there. Like they're ads with voiceover and actors and stuff. And I'm like, I don't think that's a real person. And there's no, there's no rules yet that say where you have to identify and where you don't have to identify it. Like, wow.

[Jenny Eric]

And you did in your film though. And that was so helpful.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, yeah. Because the only real AI that we used in our film was like archival moments using. Using as reference. Yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

Like, oh, this would be example of what a. Like, like a deep fake. You know, you see a president saying something, but it's not really him. And then it would say very clearly at the bottom, created by AI or something like that.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

Like, oh, Gosh, why aren't we doing that? But. But you do talk about in the film that the legislative process is slow. And so here we have this really fast moving thing and the ground rules cannot adapt at similar speed. And so it's tricky. But I wonder, okay, I talk about this. You open up the film. I thought this was brilliant. You open up the film with Arthur C. Clarke, who's a futurist. And I didn't know what a futurist was until I talked to this man named Nicholas Carderis. Although I'd read some works by Neil Postman, but, you know, I threw through them. I started reading this guy, Greg Kurzweil, who talks about the Singularity. And he had a book called the Singularity. And then he has a book that came out more recently called the Singularity is Newer. Actually, Charlie, you might get a kick out of this. I was like, I kind of want to talk to that guy. And I've gone back and forth with my husband about it because he's like, well, he's kind of on the other side. I'm like, but I'm curious, you know. So anyway, we finally did reach out and they were like. Like, they're making a bot of him.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yep.

[Jenny Eric]

And they're like.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Of Arthur C. Carr.

[Jenny Eric]

Of Ray Kurzweil. Of Ray Kurzweil, who is currently alive. So they're making a bot of him. And they're like, his bot will be able to talk to you in the fall.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Wow.

[Jenny Eric]

I was like, I don't know. I'm kind of curious. But anyway, I. Because Arthur C. Clarke, he. He's this futurist, right. He's from. He was born in 1917. He died in the 2000s, early 2000. And, you know, he's a science fiction writer, but he's also a futurist. And so he was predicting a lot of this stuff. Like, he was predicting by the mid-8 1980s, we're going to have devices on the go. Like, he sort of described something that was similar to the World Wide Web back in the 60s.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yep.

[Jenny Eric]

And he talked about online shopping and online baking. Like, I wondered. It made me wonder because I read Ray Kurzweil stuff about the Singularity. And I remember reading. He was like, well, by the late 2000s, you know that online. It's going to be like this online playground. And you're like, no, there's. But then it happens, you know. I guess my question is, should we be reading more of these futurist people? Because your point was it's like. It feels like it comes out of nowhere, right? Like, these ladies I was sitting next to, they were like, I've never even heard of this, but people have been talking about the word artificial intelligence, I think, since the 50s.

[Charlie Tyrell]

I mean, it's. It's tricky because, I mean, what the. The line between there is no predicting the future, period. So there's. There's a heavy degree of speculation that has to go into anything. And I think the thing that's always so charming about futurists and. Charming, sorry, not trying to sound reductive or anything, but like with narcissist Arthur C. Clarke or a Mike Judge in Idiocracy is sometimes when you see a prediction of the future and you see that future come true, it looks. It looks like. Like some kind of. That were the accurate or the Simpsons too, where it's just like, oh, they predicted the future and it seems like it's a superpower. But usually it's just, you know, it's a fluke sometimes or a series of flukes. Like, there's no crystal balls out there that I'm aware of. So with people like Arthur C. Clarke, it is amazing to see the ways in which their predictions become accurate. And then sometimes it's more dystopic as well. But should we be listening to them more? Yeah, like, I mean, in. In the. In the sense that the imagined future will only exist if. If there's that shared imagination. Not to sound really corny about it, but, you know, I, I, like I said, I do believe in good things happening. I really hope for them to happen. But I also do. I'm so cautious about that because I've seen the way that things tend to go in terms of, you know, people always feel like there's not enough food at the table, so they just take it all rather than redistribute it.

[Jenny Eric]

I mean, I think it's just a tricky situation. I, you know, you. Ray Kurzweil, I think, would say that 80% of his predictions have come true. That means 20 have it. And to your point, it's like, well, you know, is. Did he say something? That was kind of general. And so it just happened. Like, does that really count? But if you don't really pay attention, then all of a sudden you're like, these women, or really like all of us. Like, you know, these older women that are like, I never even heard of AI and now all of a sudden, you know, my electric. My electric bill went up. Like, what the heck is happening? Where did this Come from. And you're like, oh. I mean, people have been talking about it to a degree, but then. Yeah, the pace is just so fast. You actually kicked off the documentary where you were talking about Daniel, like, okay, this Guy's born in 1993, and he had no computer in his home at all in 1993. And then, you know, the dates just, they're coming fast, right? And it's like, well, by the end of college, 1993, no computer. 1998, only nerds knew what the Internet was. So someone's asking Bill Gates. It's so good, all these cut scenes. I was like, it must have taken so much time to find all those things.

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

Okay.

[Jenny Eric]

And, like, there's a who, which president? He goes, the Internet. Yep. George Bush Jr. Jr. Yeah, the Internet. So you got these, like. I mean, it is so the, it's like, comedic and the timing of it.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, a lot of that intro was, it was. Intro is like, mostly Daniel. Daniel actually cut the first draft of that, that version intro. And he found some amazing bites and just strung them together so beautifully.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah. And it just shows the speed of it. 1993, no computer in the home. And then, you know, 1998, nobody really knows what the Internet is. Only if you're a nerd. By the. And then these same kids who are born at that time, by the time they're at the end of college, they've got the Internet in their pocket. And now they have AI and now the AI is writing screenplay. So the pace is just incredibly fast. And so maybe, maybe people might want to, at this point, like, you know, be aware that there are futurists. I didn't even know that was a thing.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

So then you can at least a little bit in your mind, start to turn over. Here's a conversation that you could have. Will I ever attach my brain to the cloud?

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah. Yep.

[Jenny Eric]

I mean, I would rather talk about it, like, beforehand.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, I know, Like, I don't know, like, that. It's why I was just having a conversation with someone about that and transhumanism and, like, you know, creating digital copies of ourselves to maybe live beyond us. Like, is. Is that something that we want? Is that something that I want? I don't know, but I don't think so.

[Jenny Eric]

I, I, but you can see the benefit of at least having exposure to it so that your brain has at least turned it over a little bit before all of a sudden it's already here. Because that's one of the things that you, you talk about in the documentary, yeah, is superhuman super intelligence. And then truly like connecting our brain to the cloud.

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

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[Jenny Eric]

a lot of the documentary is about promise versus peril. You got the people that are like, it's doom. We're all doomed. Then you got the people that are like, tomorrow is going to be great. This is wonderful. So it's really a documentary that highlights some extremes. So do we want to talk? I mean, mostly I have peril here. Oh, gosh. But then here's one of the things that you. That someone said in the documentary. They talked about, I don't know which missile crisis, but a missile crisis that happened. This is before I was born, where people would, like, they would go hide

[Charlie Tyrell]

under their desks, you know, duck and cover.

[Jenny Eric]

Duck and cover. Every generation has had something scary. I think this was like Daniel's parents.

[Charlie Tyrell]

It's Daniel's parents. Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

They said every generation has had something scary like the missile crisis. Do you think this is similar?

[Charlie Tyrell]

I do. In ways that there. I think there's always something happening to draw, to draw out our anxiety and our attention and Do I think this is comparable to, you know, a, the Cuban missile crisis or Y2K or.

[Jenny Eric]

Oh yeah.

[Charlie Tyrell]

And those obviously being. Having different kind of outcomes and results. But time will tell is my cop out answer and also my non answer. But because again, I don't want to get into the realm of being overly speculative because I'm afraid of being wrong like everyone else. But. But this is, this is. Sorry, Jenny. Like it's so hard to find the right words and labels in this space because there's just a level of precision that I don't navigate with but. Or I'm incapable of navigating with it. I feel sometimes. But there's. This is something that needs attention. It needs attention right now because look at what happened. And a comparison that many of our subjects and us as a film team make is like look at what happened with social media. It was this offer of connectivity. It was this offer of, you know, seeing your friends, finding ways to be with your friends a different way, connecting with people over distances, making new friends, seeing art, seeing things that humans do that are wonderful. And now it's not that now people are just kind of drawn in, sucked in. There's an attention economy out there and it's really just not what it could have been or should have been. And it's kind of because we just let that happen. Not to fully put the blame on ourselves as the users of it, but there would have been chances to have spoken up but we didn't know what it was going to turn into. And now for me personally, like, you know, because I'm a digital native now, I feel like it's too late and I'm probably wrong for thinking that to, to go back and change the uses of social media. But now I just find myself withdrawing from it and using it less or getting off it entirely. And that's too bad because you know, there were people that I owe some of the maintenance of our connection to social media. There are artists that I love and filmmakers I love that we are able to find each other through social media. And you know, my, my work has been shared on social media and found me connection with audience members and whatnot. And it's just kind of too bad that now like I said earlier, like I feel like when you interact with those, some of those spaces you just feel like you're walking through a weird sketchy mall sometimes or it's just like, oh, this is just brands and fake people and rage baiting and all these things. Yeah, all these things that just kind of bring out our worst nature. So, yeah, I think that AI is gonna have maybe a little bit of, you know, the, the nuclear crisis, as well as a little bit of YTK as well as well as a little bit of social media, as well as a little bit of, you know, weaponization and misinformation, disinformation and deep fakes and corruption. It's going to be a bunch of it in this new kind of beast. Yeah. And it's not just going to take one shape either. So it, like I said from the beginning, it makes it seem like this impossible task, but we're just going to have to do a lot of maintenance with it.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah. Neil Postman, who wrote the book Amusing Ourselves to death in 1983, which is always just so wild like. Like what even. What even was happening in 1983. Like Sesame street, you know, we're amusing ourselves to death on Sesame street in 1983 with no. No computers and no Internet.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

He wrote. But he wrote that book in the 80s, amusing ourselves to Death, and he ended it by saying that no medium is especially dangerous if its users understand what the dangers are. To ask is to break the spell. Do you agree with that?

[Charlie Tyrell]

Well, yeah, because that era was television and brain rot from. They weren't calling it brain rot, but they. They're. They're worried about intention spans and kids being indoors with TVs rather than outdoors. And now we have screens in our pockets all the time. And so there's definitely some truth there. But, like, I grew up in the generation where it definitely was, there was a bit more regulation and warning about tv. Like, I remember children's ads that would basically come out and say, go outside. Don't just watch tv, even though you're watching this on your tv, go outside. So that. That's. And now does TV feel like a big threat?

[Jenny Eric]

No, that's what people are. You're like, if you're gonna take your kid to, like, the psychologist, they'll be like, no screens, but TV's fine.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jenny Eric]

I just wonder about that. Like, is it really true that no medium is excessively dangerous? I'm not sure, you know, because he's talking about. And he. And he mentions computers in his book, but, like, they're. They weren't big yet, so he was speculating.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

And then to ask is to break the spell. I mean, I actually think, like, the. A. A big part of what your documentary does is it allows people to ask questions of themselves and to others that they may not thought of asking previously.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah. Like, like AI is, it's the same as a sword. A sword's not inherently evil, but it can destroy someone. AI is not inherently evil, but its applications can be used by evil people. And the proliferation of the technology can be put in the hands of, you know, evil people. The companies can be run by evil people. Like, you know, it all comes down to human interaction and that comes down with our morals both individually and collectively and as well as our capabilities and our incentives. Our film talks a lot about incentives and how if we're to predict where this technology is heading, look at the incentives that are driving it. So if we want to use AI as a technology to cure every disease on the planet, we can work that way. But if we want to make the greatest money making machine ever made by human beings, then yeah, it's going to do whatever it can to figure out how to be profitable. And I think it's Natasha Ticu in our film who says the, that the technologists kind of boast about how this, this technology can solve climate change and solve all these other issues. And why aren't we starting there then? Like that's, that's the right, that's the big question.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, we're starting with the money making. That's so interesting.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah. And you know, my interaction with the technology was making this film with this team of people. This is a way that I'm able to feel like I can have or not just feel sorry. I should be more direct than that to actually grab some agency on this technology and how it's shaping our world because we were able to make this film and present this technology and give it as for a lot of people. This film is just going to be a primer into the technology. Including the three theater guests that you met maybe. And then that's, that's important. That was important for us to do with this film is to, to get people out on this first date with this technology because, and again, like I said, we have a lot of analogies and it's Ted Tremper on our team who says, and gosh, now I'm not sure if he was quoting someone else or speaking from himself.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, I do that all the time.

[Charlie Tyrell]

The saying is the goal of a first date is not to get married. The goal of a first date is to get a second date. So yeah, that's really what our film is, is, is to try and get people who maybe wouldn't take an interest in this technology interested in it and to start engaging with this conversation about it and to get Them start on their own path to find their agency.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know it. In some ways, you know, it's up to you how you're going to use the AI, but you can't make a choice if you don't actually know what's going on. Like, if you don't know the AI is driving the algorithm that's driving your Amazon cart. You know what I'm saying? Like, you have to know.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, I, I wish it that, that there was something where every chat bot or AI that you use had to have some kind of little indicator that pointing out energy consumption. Like, it's like, oh, yeah, this sentence that you wrote, this is a bottle of water. Like, and. Oh, you want me to make this image? Well, there, that's a gallon or whatever metric they want to show it in. But that's, that's the thing that I have found and to be honest, where I had a lot of ignorance on, which is like, how much is. Is going into making all these answers. Like, when you drive your car, you know how much gas you're using. And most of us have a pretty good sense of where gas comes from and what it costs and some of the negative impacts of that.

[Jenny Eric]

Wow, that's.

[Charlie Tyrell]

So there's a dial, there's a level. Right. And there's not that. What.

[Jenny Eric]

Turn your light.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Wow. Like, we have energy bills and right now there's just people who are being negatively impacted. You know, like some of, some of the data centers are displacing. People are gobbling up all the water, are using all the energy, and citizens are feeling the repercussions of that.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah.

[Charlie Tyrell]

So, yeah, it'll be a lot better if we could just see it earlier on than waiting for it to come up in our bills.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah. This was brought up in the film where it was one of the AI dentist data centers. It was a 5 gigawatt facility and used the same amount of power as 4 million American homes. Millions of gallons of water a day. And then it was like the community, their electric and gas payments were getting higher. They were becoming higher than their car payments. And the, the phrase was the sentence. The concept is, we're subsidizing some of the wealthiest corporations in the world. I'm like, I don't really want to finance Sam Altman's, you know, or Zuckerberg.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Nor do I.

[Jenny Eric]

And they finance their own stuff.

[Charlie Tyrell]

When citizens become enablers for someone else's idea. That's. And, and that wasn't decided in a democratic way. That's a Problem?

[Jenny Eric]

Yes, absolutely. So people can go watch the documentary, watch it with a group of people, you can talk about it, the AI document. Get involved.com. i'll put the website link and I'll put a link. You've got a bunch of other films too. To your stuff. I want to mention so that people know there's a couple. What I felt like were main uses of AI discussed. So medicine, military work, the world of work and education. So it's, you know, if you're talking about a first date, I mean if you, you're probably not going to be able to have any decision making on the military, you know.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, well, no, not necessarily. Like, I mean, you know, you have to chase it though. So sometimes by voting for someone who aligns with your values that maybe isn't going to be pro AI in the military, that helps on, on whatever kind of level of government sometimes. And then there's. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is, it is a tricky one and it is kind of like a Google of it all where just the military feels like this big massive industrial that, you know, what can you do? But I'm not saying that doesn't mean you can't do anything.

[Jenny Eric]

That's a good point. It's a good point. And the things that get brought up about the military are like autonomous weapons and, and who's liable? Whose fault is it? You know, whose fault is it if you get blackmailed by AI? Whose fault is it if they choose to drop a bomb and it wasn't a person behind the one pressing? It just, I mean it's a lot of questions there in terms of work. I mean, I think there's a big question out there as in. And also for parents.

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

Right.

[Jenny Eric]

So if you've got, if you're, if you have a baby, you got a toddler and We've got a 17 year old.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

I mean, I think it's tricky no matter what because you're like, well, what are we supposed to do? You know, do you send them to college for a job that might not exist, you know?

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yep. I mean I, I've, I've got a toddler, as you know, and I've got another baby on the way in June. So that's a question I ask myself and I kind of default to in some ways the ways that my parents taught me, where I can inform and guide. But what they ultimately want to do with their lives is going to be a big part of their path of life and they make, make mistakes and go down wrong paths and for Some things like that, they might, when they wait, when they come to the age of pursuing a career or an education, they might be better informed than I am about what spaces are the most appropriate ones to work in. So that being said, that doesn't necessarily ease my anxieties. It's just an understanding of how to live with question marks like that.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, that's new. That's never existed before. You know, where they're. Because of the technology flip people have written about that. I don't know like exactly what they say, but they're like, it used to be that information was passed top down, like from the elders down. But now in a lot of ways it's coming up because these kids have tick tock and they're on all of these different things. But that's something to, to be aware of. It's like, you know, what if billions of people are out of work? What about their purpose?

[Charlie Tyrell]

Like, I mean, yeah, I mean, and I mean the weird thing about AI and again, I'm paraphrasing one of my subjects here, but it came after the arts first, it seemed. And here I am a filmmaker and questioning my, my choices and where I am and where I'm going and where it's going. It's not so much something to analyze, it feels like it's something to feel out and try to survive right now, you know, which is daunting and hard. But I'm. I'm kind of coming to terms with it and, you know, that's kind of the path I knew I was. I knew that this was going to be difficult. When I first decided to get into filmmaking and having the understanding that you might make films that play for nobody or one person or maybe hundreds or thousands, you know, could I. When I was a kid, I predicted that, you know, YouTube and Vimeo would be the kind of metric that you can gauge some of your work by. No. So it changes and you kind of have to change with it and adapt. And it's really hard and really tiring because there's already enough challenges going on with trying to get anything made. But I'm also feeling kind of fortunate in some ways because I definitely default to analog in a lot of my approaches. Like I, I work with, we stop motion a lot of times in different visuals and illustrations. And then for this one, we got to use Daniel's illustrations and his handwriting, like you mentioned, for the second title cards. Got to work with my lovely friends and colleagues at Stop Motion department here in Toronto to do all the stop motion sequences. And Michael Ensbrenner to do the Optimus sequences, which are kind of scans of handmade elements and characters and stuff, to bring this world of this possible utopia to life. And to be able to do that in a world where, in a filmmaking world where things are going so digital and going so quick and dirty, to be able to kind of live in slow motion with something like those animation approaches is just lovely. And I think that it connects with people because to your point earlier, the handmade nature of it is undeniable. There's no looking at a lot of the visuals in our film and going like, oh, maybe an AI made that. There's, it's, it's a little messy and there's thumbprints and it's, you know, thousands upon thousands of human being hours and multiple talents. And like I spoke to the beginning, my passion for working with people. I love watching this film to, to know like, okay, that's Kyla and that's Brittany and that's Kiel and that's Phil and that's Evan. And like seeing the little pieces of these people in, in these kind of sometimes single frames and it resonates. And sometimes that's an obvious way and sometimes it's in a subconscious way for audiences. And that's super important to me. So the question is just the scale. Like, like I said, what, what is the change and what is an audience going to look like in the future with, you know, if maybe there's thousands of AI generated, you know, Right.

[Jenny Eric]

Novels.

[Charlie Tyrell]

And if you're like, oh, you know, I really like Obi Wan Kenobi from Star wars and I would love to see him hang out with Larry David, then you're going to get an AI generated trilogy of Obi Wan Kenobi and Larry David films. Because the, the models are there and they can create it for you. There are going to be those audience members, I think that, you know, and then there are going to be people who like, yeah, you know what? I really, I like to see human stories told by, Sorry, this sounds too much like an ad. But there's always going to be an audience for films in the ways that they've been traditionally made. I think, like I said, it's just going to be a question of scale. And then for someone like me, someone who's on the creative end of it, it's going to be the survivability of it. Is there going to be enough of a job there to sustain living and having an income and this, that and the other thing, because that is it's, it's. That's part of it is, you know, how to get things made, make a living.

[Jenny Eric]

It is a big part of it. Our oldest son is 17 years old. He's going to graduate in May, and he wants to be a film director. Like, you know, and that's what he's like since he was young. It's not a new thing. He's like, you know, it's like, I want to tell stories through film and Steven Spielberg and, you know, it's like I want everybody one day to know who I am. And, you know, it is like in some ways a heartbreaking thing then. And we would have maybe considered sending him to film school, but we're not going to now.

[Charlie Tyrell]

No. But, but what, what I would say is if, because filmmaking is one of those things where when people you're going to get measured up against, like, do you actually have to do this or do you just like the idea of it? And filmmaking is such a last person standing kind of business, I've learned where if you can just stay in the room long enough, you'll be staying in the room.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah.

[Charlie Tyrell]

And I will say, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here or anything, but he, if he does choose to pursue filmmaking and being a film director, he's probably better equipped than me right now because he's even more of a digital native than I am. And it will probably be able to see some things that I can't see. I'm, I'm actually getting to, and I'm only 38 and I'm getting to the age where I'm feeling old in the way in some, some cases. And there are some things that I'm just. Yeah, I don't want to bother trying to comprehend that because that's a new thing that to learn and I like doing it this way and that's not of interest to me and maybe to my own detriment. So, yeah, that how it, how it's going to be for him and for any filmmakers today is, is a lot of it's going to be the same from how I came, but there's, there's also like new tools that they'll have better understanding and better understanding of their own audiences and, and all that. So I wouldn't deter someone, but if I was to, you know, have a conversation with anyone that's an inspiring filmmaker, I would definitely dump on them all the ways that it's really hard and, and with that kind of. There are ways that's going to get harder, probably, but. But if you're driven to do it, you'll find that out. Everyone I know that's still standing as a filmmaker is because they know they can't do anything else.

[Jenny Eric]

Wow. I mean, it's just, it's such an interesting thing because AI has definitely guided our hand in terms of, you know, obviously it's. He's going to be an adult in his decision, but like, you know, to do film school is X amount of dollars.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah.

[Jenny Eric]

We're just making different decisions based off of AI and sort of what we know at this point and what are the unknowns. And so from that aspect, I think, you know, awareness is very helpful. And if Neil Postman was correct to ask is to break the spell. No medium is particular dangerous if the users know what its dangers are. And I think that's one of the biggest problems is nobody knows what the dangers are, because nobody knows that. Was it anthropic where 1. They were going to turn off the AI system and so it found one of its employees that was like having an affair. And it was like, you will not turn me off or I will, you know, I will let everybody know about your affair. Is it like in.

[Host of 1000 Hours Outside]

In it.

[Jenny Eric]

Nobody told it that you. You can use blackmail to sustain yourself as an AI.

[Charlie Tyrell]

And that's the thing. We, we did tell it anything that we can do and we can say anything that we put out there. And yeah, fiction, in fact.

[Jenny Eric]

Right. It learns it all. So, I mean, it's wild. It is phenomenally done. Phenomenal. The stop motion. I. I mean, I was so impressed. I learned a lot. I think it's obviously incredibly important to at least be aware of some of these things and then you can further the conversation and then you can join in at AI.get invol. And I, I just, I mean, I was, I was a blown away Charlie. So huge congratulations. It is called the AI Doc.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Thank you. I'm so glad you saw it on the big screen too. And also, like, not, not to overly not to bullishly promote the film, but it is a film to see in theaters with people just like the three strangers that you met. That's been my favorite experience about seeing this film in theaters is just seeing people turn around and talk to the people next to them or in front of them or have conversations on the way out. Because these are conversations that have to happen. They have to happen together.

[Jenny Eric]

Yeah, absolutely. It's called the AI Doc or How I Became an Apocalyptist. If you want to know what that Word means you got to watch documentary Charlie. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

[Charlie Tyrell]

Oh, goodness, I wish I could have prepared. Oh, I have a lot. I love being outside and I loved being outside as a kid. I also have like whatever brain that like, if you ask me what, what, what's your, what's your best favorite? I'm gonna go to the traumatic, bad, bad ones first. Like see my dog get hit by a car. There's that. So let me try and go around the corner from that one and something happy. I mean, honestly, like in a non specific way, just being in the woods. There are woods really adjacent to my house and when I got, you know, old enough to start walking through them on my own without supervision and just that piece of like, this is my own time and I regulate it how I want. And I remember one time walking through the woods and it was just a dense area of trees, so the sun was setting. So there are all these vertical slivers of really fierce sunlight coming through these trees and it just looked like the whole world was on fire. So I. And I'm not someone who immediately reminisces, but I remember staying there and I was probably 11 or 12 and just thinking, I'm going to remember this image for the rest of my life. And yeah, so being in the woods, very important to me as a kid and still that's why I live in the city.

[Jenny Eric]

I love the phrase fiercest sunlight. I think that would be like a good band name.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Yeah, I love it. Terrible music, but good name.

[Jenny Eric]

Charlie. Fantastic. Huge. Congratulations to you.

[Charlie Tyrell]

It was wonderful.

[Jenny Eric]

So needed. Yeah. Thanks for being here.

[Charlie Tyrell]

Awesome. Thanks so much, Jenny. That was great. That was so much fun. Oh, man, I'll do this anytime.