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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 783: Everyone Is a Morning Person | Jennifer Dukes Lee, How to Love Your Morning
00:52:58
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A
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B
Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Ertz. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I am so delighted and honored to have author, I mean, a prolific author. So many books. Jennifer Dukes Lee. Welcome, welcome. Thanks for being here.
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C
Ah, I'm loving this already. Like, you have such energy. I just, I just want to be in your presence. I just want to be with you. You're so fun.
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B
We are together.
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C
We are. But I mean, like, you know, in real life, I just. Oh, man, your energy, I love it.
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B
Oh. This book that you had, it came out real recently, so it's book launch season for you. It's called how to love your morning faith filled habits to build a life of joy and purpose one day at a time. And I loved it. I took tons of notes on it. It was, I love that the book was your daughter's idea. Your daughter, Lydia, you know, she's like, hey, mom, you should write a book about that. And you say, look, all my other books are like, I'm not good at this, I'm not good at that. And. And then you're like, well, this one is something that, you know, I've really cultivated over the years. And, and in different seasons, like seasons pre kids, post kids, empty nest, you know, this is what it's all the way through. So it is a beautiful book about sacred morning rituals, about morning guides, you know, in different seasons, about your morning archetype and includes these liturgies. So it's just a fantastic full book. You know, it's one of those things where people usually say, I am or I'm not. You know, I am a morning person or I'm not. And so you're really pushing back on that. You say everyone is a morning person because God created mornings as this new mercy and in a new start. And so a lot of it has to do with our outlook as opposed to like, is, was it 4:45 that you got up or 5:15, you know, it's more about your outlook. So could you give us a little bit of a backstory of this, this conversation with Lydia and how this is something that you've been doing pretty well and for a long time.
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C
Yeah. So we were on vacation in Cancun. Everybody loves a vacation. Morning.
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B
Right?
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C
That's a place we can all be. Morning, people. We were sitting there looking at the sunrise, and we were talking about all the things that we wanted to do. Beach walk, espresso, the great buffet, Bible time together with the girls. Uh, I said to the girls, oh, I wish that I could make time standstill. I just love mornings. And Lydia put her hands down on the table and she said, mom, you need to write a book about mornings. And I'm like, what? Like it didn't even occur to me. It's not like I would have thought, oh, I'm this morning person. Because a morning person to me was somebody who got up at 5am and did a half marathon and then had a gourmet breakfast and, you know, read an entire book of the Bible and then ironed their bed sheets, sheets, all before 8am And I'm like, that's not me. But I couldn't deny the fact that in our home, when our girls were younger, through their. All of their growing up years, we created an environment where we felt hopeful. You know, you've probably heard that phrase, everything will be better in the morning. Yeah. You know, you maybe even said that to your kids. Maybe somebody said that to you. It's not just like a trite phrase or a comforting phrase. That is the way that God wired us to wake up, to believe that his mercies are new every morning. So I still didn't know, though, what it meant to, quote, write a book about mornings like Lydia told me to. So I went to the Scriptures. Turns out there are more than 200 references to mornings in the Bible. And I studied them all, and that became the guide for the book.
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B
So cool. I love it. My favorite hymn is great is Thy Faithfulness Morning. Morning. By morning new mercies I see all I have needed Thy hand ha provided. So I. I just love the concept of this book and I love the concept of that we were created to be morning people. Morning people. You say everyone is a morning person. You are one. And it is my job to prove it to you. That's what you write in the book.
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C
Yeah.
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B
You say the hopefulness of mornings is part of our collective history as humans. So there's like this different concept of, like, what actually is a morning person. And so we're going to be talking about that our God is in everything will be better in the morning type God, even in seasons of mourning. So you talk about that in the book too. All right, let's go through some of your different eras. Okay, so what and what they taught you. So I love this one because this is my childhood too. Saturday morning cartoon era. Now, it is sad that this no longer exists because it was a great boundary, I think, for screen time, which was the cartoons, they end at noon on Saturday morning and they're done. And the parent does not have to enforce taking the screens away because there's no more options. But you say this era, you're like, wait, I got up at 6:30? You. Who gets up at 6:30 on a Saturday? But you did because you like cartoons and you're having your bowl of cereal. So can you talk about what the cartoon junkie era taught you about mornings?
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C
Yeah, I mean, every other morning I kind of woke up with dread. You know, you had to get ready for school or, you know, mom is coming in, you got to get up, hurry up, it's time to get going. Find your library books, find your lost mittens, all that kind of stuff. But Saturday mornings were different because it was the only time that we could watch cartoons. There was no, you know, like whole channels dedicated to this kind of thing. And as you mentioned, no like screens that you can hold in your hand and just watch it on YouTube. But what that taught me this idea of getting up for something that I could really look forward to is that cartoon era taught me that having something to look forward to brings joy to a morning. And that's something that we can adopt in our adult lives. Maybe that's cartoons, but it most likely, as adults, it's something else. Like, what is the thing we look forward to that will bring us joy?
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B
I think it's a really big deal, Jennifer, because in, especially in the season of motherhood, when you've got really little kids, it's very easy to be like, there's nothing.
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C
Yeah. It might be as simple as a cup of coffee. Like, I don't know about you if you're a coffee drinker, Ginny, but I am. And I start thinking about my first cup of coffee before I go to bed some morning. I just love that first cup of coffee. I love. I live on a farm and there's wide open spaces. I love looking out the window and seeing the sunrise and feeling kind of hope rising with the dawn. But sometimes it's like looking forward to a morning workout. I work a lot in isolation in my. My home because I'm in the country three mornings a week, I drive into town for a workout right away in the morning with a group of friends. And that feels really good. It brings me joy. It's something to look forward to.
- [07:15]
B
Yeah, I love that. It could be anything. Like, it could be like, I want to play piano in the morning. I'm gonna give myself 12 minutes. That's gonna wake up all the kids, though. So that's like, probably not the best idea with like a chapter of a book or something. Like, if you have some sort of embodied thing, like a cup of coffee, it's really smart to have something to look forward to. You wrote cartoon era taught me that having something to look forward to brings joy to a morning. So you go from cartoon era to school kid era. And the lesson here you talked about, you don't want to wake up in the morning be like, I can't find my mitten, I can't find my boot. I can't find my homework. So can you talk about shifting to considering the night before as kind of like a part of the morning success?
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C
Yeah, I think for a lot of school age, both high school and if, if you go to college, mornings can be, you know, really hard because a lot of us are working in sleep debt. We haven't got enough sleep. We stayed up too late. In high school, it was because of homework. But when I was in college, it was probably because of bad choices. And what I learned during that time is that the best mornings for me don't start at dawn, but they actually begin the night before with good sleep hygiene, with adequate rest. Doing things like having an evening ritual that just kind of slows your mind down, gets you to a place of peacefulness and restfulness so that you can get to sleep deciding, like, just like you have a time to get up, deciding, this is the time when I need to go to bed, I need this much sleep. We are in such a period of sleep debt in our lives. Since the industrial revolution, we've lost about three hours of sleep. No wonder we're tired.
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B
And the introduction a night.
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C
Yes, and artificial light. So then, you know, because you. Because of the artificial light, you can stay out later. You can, you can work later in your home or your office. Whereas before it was really tied to circadian rhythms. So we have to be really intentional. There's another thing that happens, which is called revenge bedtime procrastination. And that's not just college age kids. That's really like busy moms or people who work outside the home and feel like this is the time that I get for me. So you end up watching one more show on Netflix, you end up scrolling on Instagram and all of a sudden you're a half hour or an hour past your bedtime. So school kid era really taught me that the best mornings don't start at dawn, but actually start the night before.
- [09:52]
B
Okay, I. It is wild. Three hours a night is wild. I read this book. The only place I ever learned about it was in this book called, I think it's called My Night Self or your night Self or the Night Self. It's something like that by this incredible author that at the moment her name is escaping me. But she's written other cool books too about walking, 52 Ways to Walk. Oh, her name is Annabelle Streets or Annabelle Abs. She has like a writer's name, but she makes and matches. So anyways, it's one of those. But she talked it, she did like a deep study, Jennifer, into historical women and like what their sleep was like. And she talked about how women, really, especially women, they're wired differently. Like women care through care for babies and the elderly and the sick through the night, all through human history. She's like, so we're kind of wired, like. And she. And you talk about it in the book, this biphasic sleep where people would like go to bed and then they would maybe wake up for a little bit. So she said they would maybe light a candle and write or they would take care of the person who's not feeling well. And that was kind of like the normal way to sleep. And now it's like, like you got to get your seven hours, your eight hours, like go to bed right now. And so it's interesting to learn about how it used to be and how this matters. Because you say the dreams, the dreams are like overnight therapy. Even if you don't remember your dreams when you sleep, your brain uses dreams to help you process and regulate emotions as well as work through difficult experiences. That whole phrase, sleep on it. Sleep helps us problem solve and think creatively. And with enough sleep, you can wake up with a clear sense of what's possible. So this is what you're learning in the school era, which is like, you know, it's got to start the night before and it's really going to help my day. Okay, then you go on and you in the book, okay. At the very end of the book, you go through it's really cool. Like the different plans for the different seasons that you're in. It's different seasons of life guides, there's resources so like other books you can read and also tips. So it's starting with like, well, what if you're in college? Which that's tricky. You know, you're in a dorm room or something like that. Like, everyone's on different schedules, everyone's class times are different. So you start with college and then you go through like what would a sample morning routine be? What are tips from other people that are in that season of life? So what a cool resource. All right, so that was school kid era. Then you were a newspaper reporter?
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C
Yes, I was.
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B
Tell us about that. How'd it go? And then like, how did you work your mornings in that, in that phase of life?
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C
Yeah. After college I studied journalism and after college I had my first job at a newspaper, a metro newspaper in Omaha, Nebraska. And following that, Des Moines, Iowa. And what I learned then was what it was to actually have healthier habits. My editors in our any anybody who has a job or a family, like an office job or a family or anybody, you are expected to be like a show up, right? You're expected to be alert. For me, the news events were not going to wait for me to sort of feel like showing up or having enough caffeine. I just had to get there. And looking back, I saw that mornings reveal this built in desire that we have as humans for purpose and meaning. And that becomes increasingly important in adulthood. And I'm not saying that you find that purpose only inside of a traditional workplace, but just purpose in general. And that's what I learned in that era, that having a purpose can make a morning really meaningful. And that how we define purpose is going to change as your life, seasons evolve.
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B
Yes. Okay. And then you go through, you go through young mom era, which is a really big deal. Like now this looks different. It just is so interesting, Jen, for how you frame the book up. And it really includes a lot of pieces you have. You're like, what was Mother Teresa's morning like from that to like these guides at the end, depending on what stage of life you're in. And you just see there's a rhythm. Overall, God has created a world that has a lot of rhythm. You talk about nature in the book. God designed the world to exist in a cycle and there's all these different rhythms. And yet even within that cycle there are these different eras, large chunks of time where you're like, my life is shaped this certain way. And this is how the morning could look. So it just, it reminds you, like, you might be. You might be in a shifting transitional period. And it reminds you that, like, what once worked isn't always going to work. And so you talk about, like, if you want to spend time with God in the morning, it's okay if it's not, you know, 71 minutes in complete silence. And then you talk about the empty nest, like, when there's no kids around any anymore to, like, make breakfast for. And that doesn't shape your morning. So it's really lot. You fit a lot into the book. The book is called how to love your morning. Okay, let's talk about some of these morning archetypes. I would love if you would tell us about Grandpa Dukes.
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C
Oh, my goodness, my Grandpa Dukes. He was a total morning person. He would, he loved to have a conversation. He just. At night, I think that he just would have all of these conversations that were just, just pent up inside of him and couldn't wait to tell somebody about what had been going through his mind all night long. So he literally, when my parents would visit, he would rise at like 4 or 5am 4 or 5am he would get in his work clothes and he would go toward the guest bedroom and he would slip into the darkened room. My parents were deep asleep. And he would sit on the corner of the bed and start talking. He would just launch into these stories, picking up where he left the night before.
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B
And.
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C
And my dad always remembered him. He'd always start, well, son, I've been thinking about what I said earlier. And he would just launch into these stories. And mom especially young and marriage, you know, she got used to it over the years, but when she was young and married, she was like, absolutely mortified that, you know, she'd pretend to sleep and grandpa would just carry on. So, yeah, I mean, there are people like that that just have a genetic disposition for conversation in the morning. And you mentioned the archetypes. So clearly my grandpa was one of these archetypes I speak of in the book called a social seeker.
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B
Yes. And you said your dad was kind of similar, but a little bit more toned down. And my dad is a morning like that type. I, I don't. I wouldn't think I would call him a social seeker. But, like, you know, when you camp, we would camp as kids and it's like you're still like, just, just deep in dreamland and then you're like hearing all this clanking and like, he's up clanking. Pots around trying to get breakfast done, and we're like, what? What's happening? Or my mom says sometimes in the mornings, like if they're on vacation, she'll wake up and he'll have already like, you know, walked seven miles and showered. He's just sitting there waiting, you know?
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C
Yes.
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B
So you say Grandpa Dukes is the morningest morning person to ever have morninged. And he would just come in and be like, all right, here's what I was thinking about. Your outdoor space should feel like you. And for the longest time, ours just didn't. We had those random plastic chairs that somehow followed us from house to house, a patio that felt more like a pass through than a place to gather, and a grill that we kept saying we'd replace someday. It just wasn't a space we were excited to use. And then I found Wayfair and everything kind of clicked. We added simple, comfortable seating, an outdoor rug that grounded the space, and a few pieces that actually matched the look I had in my head. Now it feels like an extension of our home. We eat outside more, the kids linger longer, and it's just easier to be out there. What I love is how simple Wayfair makes the process. You can filter by size, style, budget, read real reviews from real homes, and with Wayfair Verified, you know you're choosing from items that have already been vetted for quality, and having everything in one place from seating to lighting to decor made it feel manageable instead of overwhelming. Get prepped for patio season for way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every Home this time of year in homeschooling is really special. You're wrapping up projects, looking at how far your kids have come and helping them finish strong. It's also a great moment to reinforce key skills and build confidence as you head into summer. And as routines start to shift with travel camps and more time outside, it helps to have something that keeps learning steady without overcomplicating your days. That's where IXL can be such a helpful tool. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that fits seamlessly into homeschooling. It offers interactive practice across math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged, and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out is the real time, feedback and progress tracking. Kids get immediate explanations as they go and you can clearly see growth over time, what's clicking and where. A little reinforcement can go a long way. It's a simple way to finish the year strong and keep skills fresh heading into the summer. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Lately I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day and being drawn into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable and still put together. It makes getting dressed so much simpler and honestly, Quince has been my go to the fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering, and everything just works without overthinking it. Quince makes it really easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim so everything feels high quality right from the start. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30 and they're breathable, easy to wear and perfect for repeating throughout the week without getting tired of them. And I have to say, the everyday fleece joggers have been such a win for me, especially on those cooler spring mornings. They're soft, they fit really well, and they still look put together enough to wear out of the house, which I love. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com outside you so I that is often what people think of when they think of a morning person. But what you say is you define a morning person as someone who has learned to approach the morning with hope and intention, not necessarily defined by the hour that you wake up, by how you work up. And it's two parts. You also see the first part of the day as a sacred threshold in which to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. So we've talked some about this. It's not necessarily the hour. You don't have to be like Grandpa Dukes, you don't have to be like my dad. But it's about, you know, how are you approaching the day? Are you approaching with optimism? Do you have things to look forward to? But there's a second part here that the first moment of the day is sacred. And this is something that has changed with the use of phones and screens.
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C
That's exactly right. That's taken a lot. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that we can all recognize that we're using our phones. Like, it's probably the last thing that we see before we go to bed. We plug it in. And our excuse for having it be the first thing that we see is that our alarms are on our phones. So it would be nice if we would just, just could just simply turn off the alarm.
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B
But.
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C
And then go about our day with just considering the sacredness of the day. But as soon as our feet hit the ground, for many of us, our phones are in hand and going with us as we begin to get ready for the day immediately puts us into kind of fight or flight mode. And I don't, I don't know if you've ever heard of one of these things before, but they're called like an alarm clock. You can get them at, at like Walmart. You can get them on Amazon. One of my favorite kinds of alarm clocks is a sunrise alarm clock. It lights up gradually and you can set it to nature sounds. You can feel like you're waking up like a Disney princess, even if your hair is sticking out in 10 different directions. But these little things that we do in the morning that don't feel digitized, that feel like we're paying attention, it's the kind of thing that you talk about all the time, Jenny. And I think that's what both of us are trying to do. We're here to like, rescue people from a life that's like a digital prison. Yes, a digital prison. And like bring them back to what's real. God, creation, and the people right in front of them. I think about the, like the NASA Artemis people. Right? So they were, they had this morning routine that was. To me, it's so sacred. They. There's like a. They had a wake up list, so NASA would play them songs in the morning. I mean, how cool is that? Like, you've got songs that are coming in and they had things to do and they had to get ready and they had to take sponge baths instead of like regular showers. They did all these things. But you know what else they did? They were like, let's look out the window, let's see what's out there and behold that. Like behold God and creation and the people that were right in front of them and taking it all in. We can learn so much from that right in our, our own homes, in our own yards, to look out and say, wow, this is real, this is sacred. And I can do that from the moment my eyes open.
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B
So I, I also love the part that you had in the book about there was like, what do they call it? Like a call out. I'm not sure you have all these extras in here. So one of them was tips. 10 easy tips to Stop hitting snooze and get up already. So you say program your alarm clock to have motivational so that you like or disable the snooze button. I didn't even know you could do that. But one of them was to have a morning enforcer. So lots of ideas there. But you know what's so interesting to me was you talked about your life growing up and you're, you talk about how you grew up in this, this home on the edge of a farming community in Iowa. And there you didn't have air conditioning. So it just gave some insight into like, like we're so much more insulated from nature, not only because of our screens, but also like because of something as simple as air conditioning. Because when you didn't have the air conditioner, well, what do you do? You open your windows and are like the birds. God made it so that the birds start to make noise, you know, at 5 or 6am and you start to hear that. And it's like really a beautiful way. You say the chorus of the robins, the actual real life robins were your alarm clock.
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C
That's right. We had the windows open. It was so stuffy, especially on summer nights in Iowa, so humid. And I didn't even really think about it though. That's just the way we lived. It was a beautiful home. I had a great childhood growing up. But we always had the windows open in the summer and there were evergreens right outside the windows. And the chorus of robins would begin right away. And I remember like kind of pushing back the, the, the, the drapes and watching like the street lights go off. Like there was suddenly enough light. I remember that. I'm like, that's so cool that that happens. Like these street lights are shutting off automatically. And I could hear mom and dad downstairs and all of these things that were just, they were about connection, they were about nature, they were about paying attention, they were about even though I was inside of a house, being somehow connected to the outside, outside world and to God and to nature. Just right through the window.
- [25:57]
B
Yes, that's actually a thing. I had interviewed this person who talked about how, like, the photons. I was like, I'm not quite even sure if I'm saying this right, but, like, the photons will come in. So she's like, even if you just crack a window, all of this, like, I don't know, light energy, I guess, starts to, like, come in through the screen, through the open door, through the open window. So there's something happening there that even though you're inside, you're completely connected to what's going on outside. So let's talk about how you say this is how God made it. I interviewed this woman. This was one of the funniest stories I think I ever read. Her name is Melanie Shankel, and she's written these different memoirs, and they're so funny. They're phenomenal. And so she was telling this one where she would say, like, she stays up late and gets up late. Right. So though. But you're saying that doesn't totally matter. It's more about, like, your. Your outlook toward the day. But she told this story in one of her books where she was maybe still sleeping at like 10am and there was workers that had come to her house and they had to move the bed in order to get to where they needed to go. And she was still in it. Can you even imagine? She's like. So I just didn't move because she's like, what am I supposed to do? Like, sit up? I mean, my. You know, I'm in my nightgown. Be like, hey. She's like, So I just, like, stayed in the bed. It was just so awkward. I didn't know what to do. But you say that doesn't really matter. It's not about that. It's about the fact that God gave us mornings. New mornings, new do overs, new chances to move forward. So can you talk about that? This is actually the practice of Jesus, too. You use this word, Ashima.
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C
Yeah. So Jesus. Well, the Israelites, the Jews at the time, and they still do. There's this ancient Old Testament prayer, and it's called the Shema. And I just learned it. I pronounced it Shima or Shema for years. And then I recorded this audiobook, and they're like, that's actually Shema. And I'm like, all right, now we all know. Now we all know. So the Israelites would have prayed The Shema for centuries before Jesus was born. And Jesus, as a devout Jew would have heard, excuse me, would have heard the Shema ever since he was a baby, every morning. And then he would have recited the words as he got older. That was a part of his faith tradition. And so it comes from Deuteronomy. And Jesus repeats it in the Gospels, in the Gospel of Mark. And it is this, love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength. So as part of Jesus morning ritual of prayer, he would have been every morning expressing his intention to love God with his whole being. And I find that absolutely beautiful. And I think that his morning intention become ours as well, no matter what time we get up. So like, how can I love God with my whole being? How can I love him with my heart and soul and mind and strength, like, not just my inner strength, but my outer strength to like move my body and take care of my body? How can I love God with my mind? So that the things that are going through my mind the moment I wake up aren't things of worry and dread and regret, but things of hope and joy and peace that I can spread to those around me and I can love them with my heart and soul by doing things that feed into our heart and heart and soul. Whatever that looks like for you. A song that just hits, hits you right at the start of the day. A connection to God, A connection to what God is doing outside your window.
- [29:32]
B
So you say you are a self, what did you say? A self professed Bible nerd. That There are over 200 mornings mentioned in, in scripture. The mornings of the Bible offer a lens through which we can see the faithfulness of God, who seems to have a soft spot for mornings, even though he's a God who doesn't slumber. It's pretty interesting, you know, it was a cool thing to go study. Jennifer, I love this. So you talk about how the mornings are not just a shift of time from night to day, but rather they're an invitation to trust that God is always at work stitching new mercies into the fabric of each morning. So can you give like one Bible story that you're like, like, oh, the morning is really kind of part of the star of the show here.
- [30:08]
C
Yeah. Well, if I may, I would love to give two.
- [30:12]
B
Yes, go for it.
- [30:14]
C
When I started to study those mornings when I was on that vacation with Lydia and Anna and my husband, I immediately opened my Bible. I'm like, what does God have to say about mornings. And I'm in Genesis, first page of the Bible, and I discovered that the very first thing that God created on earth was a morning when he said, let there be light. And morning is mentioned all over the Bible. But, you know, for. For anybody who was in a church or worshiped in any way, Easter Sunday was here not very long ago. And on Friday before Easter, before the resurrection, was crucifixion. Morning. 9am on a Friday morning. And it seemed that all hope was lost. It seemed that there was no hope. It's. It was the darkest, hardest kind of morning one could ever imagine. And I imagine if God could have just whispered in the ears of the people who were grieving his loss on Saturday night, if they could just. Just. If he could just whisper, everything will be better in the morning. Everything's gonna be better in the morning. And sure enough, on Sunday morning, women go to the tomb. Stone rolled away. Jesus not there. He has risen. He has risen indeed. Wow, what a morning. Jesus is like the ultimate morning person. And because of that, we are, too. It is not a clock thing. It is a God thing. God made mornings, and he made us. And he's a morning person. And because we're made in his image, we're morning people too.
- [31:56]
B
Okay, I'm gonna give another one. Okay. Daniel. So in the Bible, Daniel is. Gets. He, like, worships and he's not supposed to, right? He doesn't worship and he is supposed to. That's what it is. He does. But Daniel's like, you know, he, like, prays three times a day, but he's not supposed to. Okay, I'm batching. I'm gonna read it. Okay. So there's a royal decree that in the next 30 days, anyone who prays to any God or human besides the king, I'm assuming, is going to get thrown into the lion's den. So this is a situation. And Daniel prays three times a day. He gets down on his knees and he prays, and he thanks God, and he does not listen to the decree. So they throw him into the lion's den. But the king is distressed about it because he likes Daniel, right? He was determined to rescue Daniel, and he made every effort until sundown to save him. Here it is. It's all throughout the Bible, isn't it? But it gets thrown in anyway. The king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lion's den. The king said to Daniel, may your God whom you serve, continually rescue you. A stone was brought and placed over the Mouth of the den. And the king sealed it with his own signet ring. And I'm blabbering. But then at the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lion's den. When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, daniel, servant of the living God, has your God whom you serve continually been able to rescue from the lions? Daniel answered, may the king live forever. But there's, you know, there's another one like that hopefulness at the first light of dawn. It's a cool lens, I think, to. Especially if you're trying to study stuff with your kids, you know, that's such a relatable thing, like the morning. So you could go on a hunt just like you did for the motif of new beginnings and. And mornings. And where are they? Throughout the scripture, you're going to find over 200 mentions of it. So Joshua, right? With the Jericho, everything falls. That's why.
- [33:55]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. There's one from Kings that was just really kind of. I. I put a little smiley face in the margins of my Bible when I came across. That one is the story of Elijah. He was cut off from normal food and drink. And God provides breakfast in the morning. And it wasn't through conventional means. It was through ravens. So it was like the world's original doordash. But it wasn't just a scandal. It just wasn't like an unusual way of delivering breakfast. It was actually really scandalous because ravens were considered unclean. And it reminds me that God can use whatever means necessary to care for us. He's endlessly creative. And so now, like, it's when I need something in the morning, when I need something any time of day, it's a reminder that God can be creative in how he provides for us. And so I'm like, send them. Send me some ravens, God. Send me some ravens. Like, whatever it is. But that's such a cool morning story. Yes, Breakfast. Breakfast by beak.
- [35:00]
B
Yes, all these cool morning stories. What a fun thing to study with your kids. Okay. One of the things that you talk about is that sometimes our mornings are filled with mourning, as in sorrow. And so you talked about when your dad died, and you're like, look, he, you know, he lived to be 84. He had a wonderfully full life, but it's still just this broken heart. You wake up and you know that you can't talk to him anymore. This is a world that's altogether different. And yet somehow it. It's the same I'm supposed to get up and go about my daily business. And you say, even if someone has lived a long, full life, it feels like an awful surprise when death knocks on the door of someone you love, even when, you know the door opens to heaven. And you talked about the end of life, like, you become one of his caregivers, and you're like, this is a really big role reversal. It's kind of jarring. So can you talk about how to deal with the mornings when you wake up and use the phrase with a heart splintered into a thousand shards?
- [35:56]
C
Yeah, I think that's. That's a really important part of the message that I'm bringing to people. Because a lot of people dread mornings because the email inbox is full. They had a kid who didn't sleep. They've got terrible medical news or, you know, like me, grief was meeting me immediately in the morning. And, you know, I want to say to anybody that's listening right now, like, if you dread mornings, you're not failing. Like, you are human. I get that. You know, there's. For a lot of women, morning doesn't feel like a fresh start with Robbins and the Evergreens and the, you know, the street lights turning off. It's like the moment that weight returns. And so I think my message for you, whoever is feeling that way, it's not like, work harder toward having a perfect curated morning. The message is really that God wants to meet you in the first moments of your day. Even if the day starts out really messy, and on those hardest mornings of your life, it can feel like a morning ritual is dispensable, like it doesn't matter.
- [37:09]
B
Yeah.
- [37:10]
C
But really, that's when it matters most of all.
- [37:13]
B
Yeah. That. That could be the first thing to go. And you would think, I'm so overwhelmed with grief or malaise or lack of motivation or despair. How could it even matter? But you say even. Especially if you find yourself in a situation you didn't see coming, a change you can't reverse or something that you can't fix that. That this is almost even more important in those times.
- [37:36]
C
Yeah. It's really an opportunity to. To set our daily intentions and expectations around the heart of God.
- [37:43]
B
Yeah.
- [37:44]
C
Because for the rest of the day, when good things happen, you're like, wow, that's a blessing from God. Because I know, because I got this morning awareness of it right at the start of the day, that when the good things come, that's from God. But then when the bad things happen, they're more bearable because that morning, you already told yourself, come what may, God's presence is with me. His provision is with me. His promises are with me.
- [38:06]
B
That's right. That's right. You wrote this. Here's what I know to be true. When my life falls apart and my heart is breaking, I can't afford to skip the studying presence of a morning ritual. The studying. Oh, my gosh. I type so many notes that I always have so many typos. I can't. I'm gonna start over. Here's what I know to be true. When my life falls apart and my heart is breaking, I can't afford to skip the. A steadying presence of a morning ritual which invites the unwavering presence of God. I'm going to be doing about face here and completely change topics because I learned a new word in this book. Isn't that fun? It's so fun. Now the listeners maybe are going to learn a new word, but maybe they already know it. I don't know.
- [38:45]
C
But then I know what it is.
- [38:47]
B
Okay, go.
- [38:48]
C
Is it contronym?
- [38:49]
B
It is. Ding, ding, ding. Yes, a contronym. Never heard of it. Tell us what it is. I've heard of synonym antonym, homonym. What are some of the other ones?
- [39:00]
C
Okay, so it's a word. It's. It's this phenomenon that occurs when a single word can encompass two extremes. That's a contronym. So dust is an example of a contronym. Like, I can dust the furniture, which is removing the dust, but I can also dust a cake or a dessert, putting powdered sugar on it. Like, that's a contronym. Isn't that cool?
- [39:27]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [39:28]
C
Go Google it and you'll find lots of interesting contro nymphs. And there's one that I talk about in the book. It's overwhelming. My dad. Most of us use that word like, I'm so overwhelmed. Like, it's hard. Dad used it the other way, which is this rib eye is overwhelming. This. This walleye that we just caught is overwhelming. A Dairy Queen Snickers Blizzard would get the word overwhelming because it was just so awesome. And that's the way my dad was. He used it that way. So I use that story to try to pull people into this way of. In moments of bad overwhelm in the morning, to seek the good over overwhelm that's right in front of us.
- [40:14]
B
Oh, I like it. I like it. Dad used that word to describe the very best things in life. I mean, I've always used it in the negative I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so overwhelmed. I have so much to do. You know, dad used that word to describe the very best things in life. The most beautiful, the most rapturous things. So you're talking about like the cliffs in Ireland and. But also fishing and also the Dairy Queen Snickers blizzard is. Is also overwhelming. Okay, so another one is.
- [40:41]
C
Is bolt.
- [40:42]
B
So there's another Conan, like you would bolt the door, which means a completely secure, but you could also bolt away like a horse. So it's like so interesting. I just looked on the Internet. I did not make that one up.
- [40:55]
C
That's good.
- [40:56]
B
Interesting. A contranament. So I think what I got out of this part because you were talking about the blizzard and the fishing and that a lot of the good overwhelm is embodied.
- [41:09]
C
Yeah, it is. It can be just a part of. Of who you are in the world. And I saw that when my dad was passing away from congestive heart failure. It was six days before he passed away, and I was sitting on his bed beside him, and he was looking into this boring corner of the bedroom. And he said, it's overwhelming. And I was like, dad, is it overwhelming in a good way or is it overwhelming in a bad way? Because he had every right to say it's overwhelming in a bad way. You know, life on hospice.
- [41:42]
B
Right.
- [41:43]
C
But he said, it's overwhelming in a good way. And I don't know what dad saw. I don't know what he was thinking. But in my way of thinking, my heavenly father was giving my earthly father a reminder that when life is overwhelmingly bad, overwhelmingly hard, overwhelmingly stressful and painful, that God is overwhelmingly loving, overwhelmingly kind, overwhelmingly holy, overwhelmingly possible, overwhelmingly present in the best way possible.
- [42:24]
B
It's so good. So you, like all of the examples that you give in here, are real things. They're not screen things. So you say, sometimes good overwhelm greets you as it did me, when you find yourself on a mountain. But it could easily, just as easily greet you when you childlike kick up leaves blanketing your front yard, when you bear witness to a lone hawk sailing overhead, when you smell a metallic sharpness in the air the moment before rain falls to dampen the ground.
- [42:51]
C
Good.
- [42:52]
B
Overwhelmed. All those are outside and they're just really simple things, Right? But they're acting actual things. Like leaves are actual things. This is not Minecraft. Good overwhelm happens when you step into your living room with day's first light leaking through the curtains, and you suddenly remember that God is your steady companion. Good Overwhelm happens when your husband surprises you by delivering your first cup of coffee poured into your favorite cup. It happens when you feel the onion skin pages of your Bible against your fingertips. Good overwhelm happens when your pen flows. Not typing, right. That all of it is like real hands on things. When your pen flows along the page of your gratitude journal. The feel of warm towels straight from the dryer. The satisfying crack. All this sensory stuff. Jennifer, I love it. The satisfying crack of ice in a cold drink, which is, I mean it is. I never, I would have never thought to put that in a book, but it is like it's something, you know, like you anticipate. Then you got this cold drink. Finding a book that feels like it was written just for you. Clean sheets at the end of a long day. These are moments, simple moments that God built into your day even as you slept. And they are all apart from screens. And I think it's a good reminder, right, to know about the contra nym and to say, okay, I'm, I mean, I would say a lot of days I feel pretty overwhelmed. Yeah, we've got, our kids are like, we have five of them and they're in between the ages of nine and 17. And on Tuesday, we're recording on a Thursday. On Tuesday I was like, I should just write this down. On Tuesday, the 17 year old came home from a missions trip and his plane was late, so he got in at 2am and then two kids had dentist appointments. It was like a dentist orthodontist at like 9. And obviously my. We're juggling. I mean I've got a husband so like it's not like one person doing all that, but that was then. And then someone's helping out at a place, so she had to get there. She's helping out with the lighting. Someone had to get her there. You know, it's like there's a, an elderly relative that needs help. So someone's. Who's going to watch that person, you know, and then is someone fell off their bike and needed stitches, you know, oh my goodness. There's a lot you know and there's still work to do. And I got podcasts coming up and I got to read this person's book. And there's meals to make and you know, there's homeschool to do. And so there's just, it's just a lot of stuff. So I love the idea of looking at and those are all pretty innocuous things. It's like it's not life or death. You Know, stack on bills that need to be paid or different scenarios. You know, you lost your job. Stack on any of those other heavy things. I mean, this really could take you over the edge. So the idea of a contra nymph and looking. Looking for the ways that God can be overwhelming in a good way. And you say good overwhelm is hidden in plain sight on your hardest days if you learn to look for it. So, I mean, what a thing. A world that God created that has a cycle to it. Virtually all organisms have circadian rhythms, even mice, horseshoe crabs, sea slugs, fruit flies, and microorganisms like bacteria. You wrote in this book, so lots to learn. I mean, we've already talked about so many big concepts, and there's. There's so much more. Can you talk to the mom of young kids?
- [46:03]
C
Yes.
- [46:03]
B
About Avoda. Oh, Avoda.
- [46:07]
C
Yes. I'm just throwing all kinds of words in here, aren't I? So I learned that word when I was a young mom myself. It is a word that is. It's Hebrew, but in the English Bible, it's translated as both work and worship. Which I think is so cool, because I think a lot of times, as women of faith, we see work as something that's opposite of worship. Like, I can't. Like, how can I really, you know, encounter God as I am? Like, I've got a sick kid that just threw up. I have to deal with these dishes. I have to, you know, get to these kids to all these different places, and it can just feel like they're completely an opposite. But it's. The work is itself the nature of worship. And our work, our simple daily acts, are a way to love God with all of our heart and soul, mind and strength, and. Which I think is a really beautiful thing, and it's a freeing thing. Brother Lawrence, is this monk in a monastery, I don't know, 1600, 1700s, I can't remember remember. But he's. He was in charge of stuff in the kitchen, like making meals and washing pots and pans and all that kind of stuff, like a lot of us. And he would. He said this in his little book, Practicing the Presence of God. He said something in there that the time in his kitchen, among the noise and the clatter of the pots and the pans, that he could. Could possess God in tranquility in the same way as if he were upon his knees at the altar at the blessed sacrament. And I'm like, whoa, that is so cool. It's. It's such a beautiful picture of Avida. And it really transformed for me as a young mom how to see just those ordinary acts that I was doing in my home.
- [48:12]
B
Yes. Because those years and they're. They last a long time. There is a lot of sort of the ordinary daily work. But you say, sense God's presence in your work rather than dreading the work before your feet even hit the floor. You talk about how to be grateful on overwhelming mornings. Overwhelming in the bad way. Okay. What else do you have in here? Morning rituals of successful people. There is so much in here, and you talk about that's like a section, but then all sprinkled throughout. Well, I guess it's all sprinkled throughout. You say you also study the morning rituals of historical figures, entrepreneurs, inventors, politicians, and artists. So that's in the book, too. I mean, just packed a lot in. Jennifer. I was like, wow. Wow. Yeah. A lot of stories, a lot of new things to learn, and just a lot of practical takeaways. So let's talk about the fact that you wrote this book while you were walking.
- [49:00]
C
Yeah. Isn't that fun?
- [49:02]
B
Yeah.
- [49:04]
C
So I wrote the first. I had just gotten one of those desk treadmills, like where the treadmill goes under the desk. I'm standing on it actually right now. Now facing outside, because I love to see the trees and the birds and just the yard and the sky. So I wrote that first chapter while walking, while I was learning how to use this thing. And I realized that there was a tremendous energy that came with working while walking. There's even a St. Augustine quote that says, it is solved. Yeah, there we go. It is solved. But walking. Yes. And I felt that. And I was like, any other book I wrote, I was like, if I got stuck with writer's block or whatever, sometimes I just pick up my phone and I would, like, go, like, look at Facebook, look at Instagram. But when I was moving, I couldn't do that. Otherwise I would fall off the side of the treadmill like it was safety reasons. But I realized after that first chapter, I'm like, this feels so good. And it was such a fulfilling experience. I'm like, I'm writing the whole thing this way. So I did.
- [50:06]
B
I wrote the whole book while walking 305 miles.
- [50:12]
C
Yes.
- [50:13]
B
So cool. Can you talk about. This is not your only book. You've written a lot of other ones.
- [50:17]
C
I have. My very first book came out in 2014, Love Idol. It was about seeking God's approval instead of people's approval. Because I had the whole thing mixed up. I wrote a book Called the Happiness A stare about seeking happiness in God, not in other stuff. It's all under control. Was written because I learned a lot of things by being a control freak and God was curing me of that. See, I have all these. Every book is based out of a problem, I'm telling you, except this one. And then I wrote Growing Slow because I was somebody who was always in a hurry. I could have much more easily but written a book called Growing Fast. But I wrote Growing Slow and a few others in between.
- [51:01]
B
Whoa, how many?
- [51:03]
C
I believe I've written counting journals and Bible studies. I believe Now I'm at 10 total.
- [51:11]
B
Oh, what a milestone, Jennifer.
- [51:13]
C
This is 10, I believe so that or the Bible study.
- [51:19]
B
Ah, that's a neat. That's a neat milestone, especially to have this one be the one that you're like, this is something I've done pretty well and I'm gonna share people share with people how it's really affected my life. Jennifer, wife of an Iowa farmer, mom to two girls, book author, loves queso and singing loudly to songs with great harmonies. You do you sing the harmony or do you just like when a song has a good heart?
- [51:40]
C
Oh, I sing it. I sing it. I mean, look, with the kids when they were younger, I mean, it is so cool because my now, my older daughter is music in music and theology. And so she's like, she. We learned harmony young. I'm like, okay, you got to listen for that. Here it is. And I'm not saying I'm great, I'm not. But I can find a good harmony. And I learned it from the church hymnals, so I passed that on down to the kiddos.
- [52:03]
B
Okay, that's. What a cool thing to pass down. And people can check out your blog. I'll put the link in the show notes. Jennifer Dukes Lee, you talk about faith, farm, life, identity, happiness, ey, stored home, encouragement, rest, authenticity and friendship. This has been so fun, Jennifer. We always end our show with the same question. What is a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.
- [52:24]
C
Oh, this is so fun. Okay, so though, that the house that I told you about?
- [52:29]
B
Yeah.
- [52:30]
C
We had four tall evergreens in. In the front of it where the robins were. And I loved to climb up as high as I could onto those evergreens. And I would take a book and I would hold. I would be on the. I would read books in the evergreens. It was so dangerous. And oftentimes I would just go, keep going up and get up on top of the roof and just sit on the roof. And read my books.
- [52:56]
B
Oh, that's so special. Oh my goodness. What a cool memory. Wow. A beautiful place to read. I love it. And your mom let you do it?
- [53:06]
C
I don't even know if she knew.
- [53:08]
B
It was like that time in life right where people were like, I don't know if my kid is, is. Hopefully they're fine. They'll come home for dinner.
- [53:13]
C
I love it.
- [53:14]
B
Huge congrats. This book is fantastic. How to love your morning. It will really help to reshape your life and, and then you can pass these things on to your kids. I really appreciate your time and huge congrats on the new book.
- [53:25]
C
Jenny. No wonder your podcast is so popular. You are. You are really, really, really, really exceptionally good at this. Wow.
- [53:33]
B
Saying that. Thank you.
- [53:35]
C
Ask great questions. You. You've clearly read the content. You are able to just converse about it from things that are happening in your own life. This was an absolute delight. I'm sure you get that all the time, but this is really, really great. I loved it.
- [53:49]
B
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- [54:08]
C
But that's weird.
- [54:09]
B
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C
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B
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