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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 801: Learn the Universal Path By Which Anything Becomes Successful | Dr. Henry Cloud, Your Desired Future
00:55:51
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- [00:01]
A
Summer gets busy fast. One minute you're easing into warmer weather, and the next you're juggling sports schedules, swim days, camping trips, road trips, late nights around the fire, and trying to keep the house from completely falling apart in the middle of all of it. And if you're a cat family, too, there's still the everyday stuff waiting for you at home, including the litter box. That's why Whiskers Litter Robot is such a game changer. During busy seasons, it automatically cycles after every use, so you're not constantly scooping or dealing with litter cleanup every single day. It just handles the dirty work for you. And the Whisker app notifies you about your unit, like when a clean cycle is complete, when drawer levels are getting full, or if the unit needs attention. You can always track things like your cat's weight and bathroom usage over time, which makes it easy to stay aware of changes without having to constantly check in. Honestly, during a packed summer, having one last daily chore to think about makes a huge difference. Maintain your cat's litter while focusing on your growing family. Learn more about Whisker Litter robot models and starter kits today to get set up before the summer craziness arrives. Take an additional $50 off bundles with code 1000 when you shop whisker.com 1000hours that's an additional $50 off bundles with Code 1000hours@whisker.com 1000hours welcome to the 1000hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. And I'm so excited. I've been a fan. I mean, for decades. I had never in my life thought I would have an opportunity to talk to Dr. Henry Cloud. Welcome.
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B
It's good to be here. I don't want to. You've been a fan for that long? I don't want to say anything. I might screw that up for decades.
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A
Okay, so, I mean, you are. Obviously, people know you as the boundaries guy. I was going to show you. I'm like, I felt like I have a pretty big stack of your books, but I know you've written, like, 45 books, so these are the ones that I have here, the boundaries books, of which there are many variations, but I've got the original one here with the workbook. This is about when to say yes and when to say no, and then actually. And I've got a book here about integrity, a book about becoming an adult, which is. We've got kids that are, like, in their later, later high school years. So these have been great additions to our family. And then our daughter, who is a teenager, a high schooler, is reading Safe People. I went into her room this morning and I was like, I need to grab your Henry Cloud books. She's reading Safe people. So she's 16 years old, she's reading Safe People and Trust. And she said, please tell I really like his books. So from her 16 year old, 10th grade life. But the book that we're going to be talking mainly about today, which is brand new, is called your desired future. And this is about taking the steps that, to get you where you want to go. So you know what's so interesting to me about this book, in particular the new one, your desired future, is when you think of someone like you. I mean, you've sold millions, millions of books, over 20 million books. And you're, and you're working with all sorts of people. You know, when you think about boundaries, you're thinking about people that you know are struggling with their relationships. But you have had so much experience working with high performers and you've seen people accomplish these incredible things. So it's interesting to have this book that's geared a lot toward business because you've worked with all these high performing people. So could you give a little bit of backstory on that part of it where you say you got these people that come in, everyone's pretty talented, you know, everyone's got pretty good social skills. Everyone's got, you know, maybe different resources at their fingertips. And what you see, you've had a first row seat. Some people succeed and some people don't.
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B
And you're like, and a lot, and a lot in the middle, like doing some stuff. But they know there's more that they would be able to do. They just can't figure out why.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And so through spending time with all of these different people, you have learned the sort of pattern recognition of all. Okay. These are the elements that go into actually really getting to where you want to be.
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B
You know, it's really interesting that you see, and you know, we use the word success, which I don't really like because a lot of people associate that with, you know, big houses and cars and all that stuff. But, but I like the word fruitful that, that somebody, you know, somebody's life is fruitful and however they are trying to, you know, make it work and be successful and that's, you know, relationships and family and circles of friends and extended family and career and calling and all of that. And what's, what's interesting is that we, the way I put it in the book, there, there really is a universal, sort of like the laws of physics, there's a universal path by which anything becomes successful. And if you look at any successful endeavor, it's going to have these elements in it. But what's so fascinating is how they don't look alike when they're doing them. I mean, if you took a Steve Jobs and a Bill Gates who did these incredible technological feats, they, they look so different. Or, or professional athletes, you know, some of them are like, you know, Mr. Science and the others are, you know, winging it. But you get below the surface and there is a universal path that all of them are doing, even though they look different. And so that's kind of what the book is about. I thought a long time ago in working for high performers, if we could cut through all the noise and however you want to do it, whatever your mission is, whatever you're trying to achieve, what are the laws of physics underneath that go into achievement? And that's what the book is about. And it could be for a mom trying to get the kids in the van and on school on time by 8 o' clock, or a global enterprise doesn't matter. I mean, you got to work with the laws of physics. Whether you're building a jet or playing tennis, you can't violate these laws.
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A
Yeah, yeah, you're crafting a family. You know, you're at the beginning years of motherhood and you're like, what, what do I want this to look like? You have to have a vision. So it's a phenomenal book. Phenomenal. Because of course, everybody wants to know what the answers are, right? The, you know, these are five steps, five essential steps to take you where you want to go. Where do you want to go? You know, and everybody's going to have an ending destination that they want, but the five steps are gonna be the same. So it's a fantastic book. It's called you'd Desired Future.
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B
If you look at, if I just put the five steps up there, everybody, mostly everybody who's ever tried to accomplish anything says, oh yeah, I know all that. But what I tried to do in the book and show in the book was you might know these things and you might be doing these things, but there is a design of how human brains are wired and there is a design to how these things have to be done, that it's in the details, you know, of how you're actually doing it. You might have a vision, but is it the kind of vision that actually leads to results.
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A
Right.
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B
Or you might have, you know, the other parts of it. And that's, that's where it really gets interesting when, when you're beginning to look at. Because here's our problem. We all just go do things. We create businesses or create families or create departments in our own image, meaning we start to get active and we start to start doing it. But we're doing it in the way that we're wired. And the way that we're wired may be missing a few elements, and that's where we get stuck.
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A
Yeah, you had talked about, you know, sometimes people will have four out of the five things, or they'll have, you know, they'll just kind of be off on one of these five essential steps. And so you can really help to guide yourself in the direction that you want to go. So one of the things that you talked about was you say you always get called in in one of three scenarios. Okay, here's scenario one. People are doing well. Business is doing well. They want to be better. Scenario two, there's a known issue. We got something wrong, you know, something wrong in our relationship. There's something wrong in our company. Can you help us resolve it? Situation three, I love the wording. People or businesses are a real mess and they are about to blow up or disintegrate.
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B
That's true.
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A
So you say, I always want to have at least one of these hairballs in my caseload, but not too many, you know, because they're hard, they're painful, they're difficult, they're tiresome. But they help you to learn a lot. And then when you're successful on the other end, it's really rewarding. And so this is what you're talking, talking about. It's like you have worked with hundreds, thousands of people over the years, and you have seen what makes it work to get there. You know, many get there, many don't. And then there's. Sometimes there's a lot of brokenness in the. In between. And then like you said, sometimes they're just hanging out in the middle. You did a really cool thing in this book. I wondered where the idea came from where you took these different essential steps and you tied them to the human body. So one example is one of the steps which is about networking, which I thought was really interesting. Maybe we'll start there. But the. This one, you were like, well, in your brain, your brain is always networking. You know, it's always, you know, this neuron's connecting to that neuron can you talk about that framing. I thought that was a really cool framing for the book.
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B
Your brain is amazing. It's kind of almost the opposite direction. What. What I did was, you know, there's all this performance literature out there and all this leadership literature and all this clinical literature, and, you know, there's a lot of good stuff that we got to learn in order to be successful and fruitful. But when you look at all of it, you go, are there really 10,000 things we gotta know before we can pull something off? And so what I did was, I did what's called a factor analysis, which is where you look at everything and. And you ask, well, how many things are there really? I mean, there's a thousand things, but 600 of them are really talking about the same thing. That's the element that makes a difference. And so I started to do that because I wanted to build a model that would. Would help people. And then I asked the question one day, I don't know why, but I. I said, what's the model of the greatest performance company or whatever in the world? And it just dawned on me. It's the human body. Wow. There is not a performance machine even close to the human body. I mean, AI is trying its best to emulate, and AI is the biggest thing going, right? And so I asked the question, you know, the basic thing we're trying to do is we're trying to get from here to there. Here's where we are in our marriage, or here's where we are in our health, or here's where we are in sales, and we're trying to get over here. So I asked the question, how does the human body get from here to there? How does that work? So I went into neuroscience and, you know, neurobiology and physiology and psychology and anatomy to try to figure out, is there a system, a path by which the brain, the body, does this? And it was unbelievable. There is. And it just so happened to perfectly overlay with the factor analysis of all the performance literature. And so that's how we come up with the five. And you. You talked about vision, and. And there's really some. Some elements of vision that. That really have to be present. That your body needs to make something work or that you need to make a goal work. People have goals and visions that never come to fruition. But. But what does my body do if I want to get from here to there? Because to your point about, you called it networking. I called it engaging the talent. So my body, I'm sitting here with you And I go, you know what? This podcast would be a lot better if we did it from over there. Okay? The human species is the only one capable of doing that. That vision, what that means is to imagine a future reality that you desire that doesn't exist. That's a vision. Martin Luther King said, I see a day when a man is judged by the quality of his character and not the color of his skin. That didn't exist, by and large, in, in that day. That's the vision. Now watch me as I tell my brain to go get there. It ain't going anywhere by itself. Your brain can't move. But what it can do, unlike any other part of your body, it starts recruiting the talent that it's going to need to get there. Yeah, okay. Says, I'm gonna need a couple legs. It sends out emails, hey, you wanna join me? And it sends out motivating emails with certain chemicals. He says, I'm gonna need a couple of, you know, eyes to focus. And it wakes up your eyes, but it wakes up your eyes calling them specifically to that mission. And that little thing right there. This is incredible. When your vision starts to move, things begin to happen in your perceptual neurological systems that start to act as filters to keep everything out of your attention. That's gonna get in the way. And you haven't even done a to do list. You haven't even thought about it. But look at it this way, Jenny, when, when you, when you first start saying, you know what? I, I, I want a new car, you know, this one's old and crappy and I, I need, I need a new car. And you start thinking, I think I want kind of one of those. What happens? You drive the same streets, you drive the same. And now you're seeing that car everywhere. That is what a vision begins to do. And then it starts to call into account the talent you're going to need to get there. Now, here's the big thing people got to hear. Our daughter's a singer songwriter. She's in her early 20s, and when she was a teenager, she came and asked me, dad, how do people get to be singer songwriters? And I said, well, Lucy, let me show you. And I pull out my whiteboard. Her eyes roll. You know, another psychologist, dad, life lesson crap moment. And I said, well, first thing you gotta have is your vision. Tell me about your vision. And it was unbelievable. I mean, it was so, like, amazing. I said, all right, well, the second thing is you got to engage the talent. And she looked at me and she Said, well, dad, you and mom said, I have talent. I said, lucy, I'm not talking about your talent. I'm talking about other talent that you got to get to join you to help you get there. The brain ain't going nowhere by itself. You got to get some legs and some arms and. And immediately she got a genie. She said, you know what? I need a new guitar teacher. The one I've got is not going to get me there.
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A
Wow.
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We keep going over the same thing over and over, and then I don't know how to produce an album and I don't know how to get auditions. And so we said, you're right on track, so let's start looking around. And you know, we knew some people that knew some people and had friends and I mean, she didn't have a big production company go hire all this. And we start to talk to people and lo and behold, Kevin Jonas heard her sing and said, oh my gosh, I want to manage you. And so, but my point is, everybody, wherever they're sitting, wherever you want to go, there are some people around you, paid or unpaid, a mentor, a friend. You have got to engage. And this is what CEOs do. They hire their team.
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Right?
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So you may be one friendship, one introduction, one mentor, a personal trainer, whatever that knows what you don't know and knows how to get that element moving that you don't know. And, and that's what the brain does next. Tells the legs. I'm going to need, you need your help to get there. So, you know, everybody looks at networking. Oh, I got to go meet. I'm trying to get into finance. I got to go meet people with money. Well, great. That's called phishing for customers. But you might not know or be connected with the, the actual talent that knows how to build a book of business.
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Right.
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And that's why all the greats use coaches. Wow. They all do. I mean, from sports to CEOs.
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As we move towards summer, everything starts to look a little different. The schedule loosens up, there's more time outside, more travel, more life happening. And that's a really good thing. But it can make consistency a little harder. Maintain having something flexible that supports learning through those changing rhythms can make a big difference. And that's where IXL fits in so well. IXL is an award winning online learning platform offering interactive practice in math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It adapts to each child's level, keeps them engaged, and gives parents clear visibility into progress. What I really appreciate is how simple and organized it is. Everything is laid out by grade and subject so you can quickly find what your child needs, whether that's staying sharp over the summer or getting a head start for the next year. And because it's personalized, kids can move at their own pace, which helps keep momentum going in a natural way. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Your outdoor space should feel like you. And for the longest time, ours just didn't. We had those random plastic chairs that somehow followed us from house to house, a patio that felt more like a pass through than a place to gather, and a grill that we kept saying we'd replace someday. It just wasn't a space we were excited to use. And then I found Wayfair and everything kind of clicked. We added simple, comfortable seating, an outdoor rug that grounded the space, and a few pieces that actually matched the look I had in my head. Now it feels like an extension of our home and we eat outside more. The kids linger longer and it's just easier to be out there. What I love is how simple Wayfair makes the process. You can filter by size, style, budget, read real reviews from real homes, and with Wayfair verified, you know you're choosing from items that have already been vetted for quality, and having everything in one place from seating to lighting to decor made it feel manageable instead of overwhelming. Get prepped for patio season for way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home That's W A Y-F A I R.com I Wayfair Every style, Every Home Lately I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day and being drawn into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable and still put together. It makes getting dressed so much simpler and honestly, Quint has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering and everything just works without overthinking it. Quince makes it really easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim so everything feels high quality right from the start. Start Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30 and they're breathable, easy to wear and perfect for repeating throughout the week without getting tired of them. And I have to say, the everyday fleece joggers have been such a win for me, especially on those cooler spring mornings. They're soft, they fit really well and they still look put together enough to wear out of the house, which I love. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside
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B
I've got one of the most successful companies that everybody would know that I work with spends $100 million a year on individual coaching for their leaders. Wow. And they're killing everybody. So you don't have to have 100 million bucks to go hire a coach, but there's somebody in your circle of friends that might know a little bit, that might know somebody, that knows something and or can come do this part for you. See, we don't have all the talent and ease. Yeah, that's fine. Nobody does. Yeah, nobody. When Elon started SpaceX, he was not and is not a rocket scientist. He knew physics and what he did was, I want to go to Mars. So he goes, he goes around the world and starts giving this vision to people that left what they're doing in aerospace to come join him and build this.
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Yeah.
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So who's going to help you? That's the second thing. And your brain does it better than anybody.
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Yeah, yeah. With all those neurons. Yeah. It's so interesting. I love the way that you framed it about the human body because it really helps you to remember the different steps you wrote. Nothing comes close to its complex inner working and systems that, taken together, accomplish a myriad of different and remarkable endeavors. Talking about the human body. So I decided to ask the question, how does a human body, this amazing performance machine, reach its goals? And then you, like you said, you overlay these. So you talk about vision. People can pick up the book and read about vision. You're like, the worst vision statement is, I want to make X amount of dollars.
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B
Oh, good.
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A
You're like, okay, that's not good. That's not a real vision. It's not going to accomplish what you need it to do. So you talk about specificity. So whether you're talking about a mom kind of orchestrating her home or a business owner or an, you know, an entrepreneur or an employee, like, you need specificity. So people can read that in the book. But part of the reason is because your motivation is going to wane.
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Yeah.
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A
And so you have to really know what you want. And I loved this part. In all of them, you talked a lot about how. And I did not really know this at all. In all of these steps, it actually is affecting your brain. So you say, okay, you come up with this vision and you say, it's going to send your train down the tracks, but it's also going to help you start to lay the next tracks. Like, where are we going further than this. So you just give a lot of encouragement here. Believe that what is being done every day by someone just like you is possible to accomplish.
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Seriously, we cannot underestimate that. And here's why. Most people, if you talk to them and you're talking about somebody getting somewhere, you know, losing weight or working on addiction or, you know, building their marriage or increasing sales, and they're not getting there. And somebody critically looks at them and says, well, they just don't want it bad enough. If you want it bad enough, you would do it. They just don't want it bad enough. And what they're speaking to there is motivation. And everybody thinks you got, you know, if you want it bad enough and if you can conceive it, you can achieve it. And all this stuff. Well, here's what's true. Motivation is absolutely necessary. And I talk about in the book where that comes from, how to build it. But it is not the number one factor that loads on the achievement of a goal. The number one. In fact, motivation can be inversely correlated. There's a proverb in the book of proverbs. It says, a desire accomplished is sweet to the soul, but hope defers, makes the heart sick. And Jenny is so sad. There are people that long. I mean, they're motivated. They want their marriage to improve, or they want their kid to improve, or they want, you know, to reach this goal or change their financial picture or whatever it is they want to get out of debt. For example, our country is suffering from people in consumer debt. And they look at this pile and they think. Or they look at somebody's marriage where they think, well, that's for somebody else. I mean, I can't do that. It's not going to work for me. And they kind of start to lose hope. But what happens? Well, the motivation goes down. You can't depend on motivation. It wanes. The number one factor is the belief that it's possible. Yeah, number one is what I said in the book. Unless you're doing something that we've never heard of before, 99% of everything that all of us are dreaming about doing, somebody's doing it right now. It is possible. It is very possible. Stop blaming yourself. You just don't know how and you don't know the path to take. Okay, somebody's doing it. This is why my buddy Dave Ramsey, what does he do? He has saved. I mean, I don't know if they've added it up before, but it's got to be in the billions or something of people who over the years have gotten out of piles of debt that they didn't think was possible.
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A
Right.
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Well, what's the first thing he does is he. He brings people on the air. Not first in every show, but in the system. He brings people on the air and they do the debt fee. Debt free scream. They've been working his program, and they'll fly to Nashville to get on camera and go, I'm debt free. And then they talk about how that happened. That's why we need testimonials. That's why an addict who thinks it's impossible to get sober goes to a recovery group going around the circle. Yeah, you know, I got 10 days of sobriety or I got 20 years of sobriety or whatever. And the brain starts to learn, wait a minute. This really can be done. I just need to know how to do it. So the belief thing is a big deal. And then kind of the. The underside of that, sort of the other side of the coin of the belief is what we know about anything. Anything, anything. Stop dialing 1-800-get-RICH now. Whatever says something's going to happen, easy or immediately, you know, that's just a drug. Probably not. But here's what we know. Once you believe it and then, you know, the incremental steps. That second factor is consistent execution of the incremental steps that move the needle. It's always a little bit at a time. Always, always, always, always, always. But you got to know how to organize those and what they need to be, because a lot of people execute perfectly, very disciplined, that they're doing the wrong things.
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A
Sure.
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B
So it doesn't get you there.
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A
Sure, sure. These are incredible things to learn yourself and also to teach your kids. If your parent, if your children are at, like, these, you know, sort of teen and tween years.
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B
Can I give an example of that?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Like a parent, A parent wants to help their kid. Right. They go, what's the big thing you got to do? Well, you gotta prioritize and spend time with your kid. So they start to spend time with their kid and it's not getting better, it's getting worse. Well, what's happening in that time? See, this is where, this is where a path has got to be so important and the specific activities that you're doing in there matter.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So yeah, it's not rocket science, but it is pretty much universal laws. And. Yeah, really, anybody can do it. Anybody does do it. When you walk across the room, you do it.
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A
Yeah.
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This path is, it's pretty simple, but it's specific and, and it's got to be clear.
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A
Yeah. And I love that the book, like you had so many examples in here. So the book is called your desired future. So when you're talking about vision, you're talking about the example of first star works. So this is a place where, you know, these, these kids, they think they might not be able to graduate and then they, they show.
- [29:19]
B
No, no, no, it's worse than that, Jenny. These are foster kids. It's a, it's a group I worked with in Los Angeles. 90 something. 99%. 90% of foster kids don't graduate high school and virtually none go to college. What first star does is they come in and pick them up in the ninth grade and they start to work with them and they have a program. Long story short, I think they might, you could look it up. I think they might say 100% of their kids graduate high school and 90 something go to secondary education.
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A
Amazing.
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Why? Because they're following a path that has
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A
the elements and, and it begins with belief. And I think, you know, we've got a small little company here. I know I was a teacher and then I was a stay at home mom. And now we've got this kind of small company with like me and my husband. And then we have one employee, a part time employee named Megan, who's one. Who's wonderful.
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B
What were you doing a part time.
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A
I was a teacher in the.
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B
What was the company?
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A
Stay at home. Well, 1,000 hours outside is our company. Right. So, you know, we sell some products and we've got the podcast and I speak sometimes and we've got this really cool app. But I have a dream. You know, my, my vision would be, I think it's very cool to be able to hire people and to provide work for other people. And, you know, our kids, you know, if they wanted to have the opportunity, not that we would ever force them. And so I have the vision, but if I really were to think about it, until I read your book, I don't know if I had the belief I would have thought, I've never done this before. I don't know anything about the world of work. I'm not an entrepreneur. I don't know many entrepreneurs talking about, you know, engaging the necessary talent piece. But the belief, when you said that, I was like, this is a really big statement. Believe that what is being done every day by someone just like you is possible to accomplish. And the belief pieces, where they started with these foster kids, they created the circumstances so that these foster kids could believe that college was possible for them. So this is just one of the five steps. And then you talk about, you know, they spend these four years on that.
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B
It's been one weekend a month, and then they take them to ucla. And these kids are from horrible circumstances.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And that's why a lot of people don't really have visions, because how can you have a vision of something you've never even seen? And they learn, oh, this is what a college is. And then they start to learn. And, you know, people that go to college are able to do A, B and C, and they start to work on those skills, and then they learn. This is a big one. These kids learn that, you know, money's available. Yeah, but you don't have money's available for you to go to college. And they start to figure out how you apply for that and how you. But without that, their world opened up. If you go. I think it's on their website, they have a lot of quotes about. About these kids that after, you know, they got through all this successfully, like, it's a huge percentage said, what helped them more than anything was I started to see that this was possible for me.
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A
Yes. Yeah. That gave me chills, because that is related to anything. I think that sometimes we have these desires of things like, oh, I wish, you know, I would like my life to be like that. But you don't necessarily have a core belief that it could. And so to start to see things and to have a sentence like, other people are doing it. Other people just like you, you know, the same talent level or same resources, they figured it out. You know, there was a kid in the book you gave. It's just such great examples. And when you said at the beginning, like, like, almost people would be like, yeah, I kind of know what you're talking about. You know, I need motivation. I need a good team. You know, I gotta have steps. But you're. But the book, really?
- [33:14]
B
Yeah. But who do they go find? You know, they're, they're cut. Oh, I need people. I'm gonna ask cousin Joey. Really? Because he's, he's available. You know, what does Joey bring to the party that's actually going to help you?
- [33:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. You drill down, I think, to lower, lower layers that I wouldn't have thought of. Like, you have this, the sentence, desire plus belief is what gets the human body going. And you had given a story of someone that came to, was like, I want to. It was a young guy. I want to be a business owner, but I don't have any money, so I can't do it. And you said, will you start to laugh?
- [33:51]
B
It's a guy I'm mentoring right now just as a favor. And he reads about business all the time and he has these entrepreneurial passions and, and he comes from, you know, pretty tough background. And he goes, well, I want to have my own business, but I don't have any money. And, you know, can't make money if you don't have money. And these, this crap in people's heads that they've learned. And I just burst out laughing. I go, it's just, it's like if somebody told you the earth was flat, you just have to. But they're trying to get to the edge, right? Yeah. These things are not true. And they order people's lives.
- [34:35]
A
Yeah, yeah. So you say use reality to draw you away from your fears and limiting beliefs. Look around. You know how, look at the guy who started Starbucks, you know, was an incredible amount of examples for each of the steps that really help you to understand that part of the, that piece of the puzzle. So, like, because I would have been like, oh, yeah, I got a great vision. But if I were to really drill down, I don't really believe that I have what it takes. And so then I think to look around and see what other people have done, it. It helps you to change your perspective. I think for a long time I underestimated how much your outdoor space impacts your day to day life. Because ours just wasn't working. It felt unfinished. We had a couple mismatched chairs, no real place to sit comfortably, and I've always had this idea that I'd add lighting or make it feel cozy, but never actually got around to it. Then we started looking on Wayfair and It made the whole process feel doable. We found pieces that actually fit our style. Simple, functional, a little bit modern, but still warm. And suddenly the space came together. We added seating, a few subtle decor touches, and now it's a place we naturally end up at the end of the day. The best part is how easy Wayfair makes it to get there. You can narrow everything down so quickly, compare options, read thousands of reviews, and feel confident in what you're choosing. And delivery was seamless, which matters when you're trying to upgrade a space without adding more stress. It finally feels like a space we use instead of a void. Get prepped for patio season. For way less, head to wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W.H. wayfair. Every style, every home.
- [36:07]
B
I mean, even something as simple as Shark Tank. These people don't have money. They have a passion. Yeah, they're bringing it there. See, they're starting to engage the talent. And what do you hear? A lot of them say that. You know, they say, why should I invest in your company? And they'll say, because I have a great product, but you have the ability to get me into Walmart or you have the ability to teach me about distribution. See, they're engaging outside talent, and they're not stuck in their own little circle. That's just the beginning. I mean, then we get into the real execution of all this.
- [36:50]
A
Yeah, well, let's talk about that. I do want to do a plug for Lucy's music, though, because I listened. I went and listened.
- [36:56]
B
Oh, you did?
- [36:57]
A
Yeah, I did. So she's got this song called Crash and Learn. Learn. I was like, if there ever was a song written by a psychologist daughter, I mean, this. This is a song like, I'm fine, I'm not. No, wait. Just need a little time for healing I've tried to run, I've tried to hide I've hurt myself keeping it inside. And she has a music video in that one, so talking about engaging the necessary talent. It's like someone had to figure out, you know, how. How do you make this video? And she's got this really cool upright piano with these candles on it in the middle of this room. And there's like this ballerina and a typewriter, and it's very analog. It's cool. Yeah.
- [37:29]
B
Jenny, thank you for. For plugging her music. If you go to Lucy Cloud and Crash and Learn, but she just released a new, new lp ep. Ep, I guess, with a song on there. Oh, gosh. What?
- [37:46]
A
The ep Is it called allowing time?
- [37:48]
B
It's. It's not to love somebody, I think. No, that's not it. That's the one I love. Anyway. It's one of them that was just nominated for song of the year. Now, get this. None of that would exist without that conversation we had in the kitchen that morning when she was a teenager. Yeah, that's where I, you know, we talked about this path, and then she started work. The Path. Well, the song Crash and Learn. CBS Television bought that song, and the CW network bought that song, and it went into network shows. And she's getting asked to play all sorts of places now, but there's a million kids out there just as talented. Well, nobody's as talented as Lucy, but you know what I mean? And. And they have dreams. But she started to do the Path.
- [38:50]
A
Yeah.
- [38:51]
B
And that's what I'm trying to help people see what that path is.
- [38:55]
A
Yeah. And she engaged this other talent, of course, because there's a ballerina in this video. So who. The question is, who do I need to help me get there? And you talked about. I think one of the things that was really interesting was your own story. When you wanted. You had this vision of wanting to have an integrated psychiatric hospital. You're like, I want it to be more faith welcoming. I wanted to integrate these different parts of health. And so you, you know, you're with Dr. John Townsend. So this is like, everybody knows the two of you for these boundaries books. I didn't actually know this story, but you're like, you know, you're kind of plugging away. And in what you say is, there's a whole lot of things that we don't know that we don't know. That's a huge statement. So you got to kind of bring in the people. You're giving the example of bringing in people who understand how did this particular business path. And so you might just be one step away, or you might just be one higher away from success. So that's talking about there's. And there's a lot more in there, too, about your optimism. You know, like, how is your. What's your face communicating? I was like, this is great for our family unit too. Right. It's hard to feel negative and not reveal it to others. It leaks. So check your face.
- [40:04]
B
I mean, people just, you know, did the family dinner tonight and ask your teenagers, so how you doing? Fine. We'll tell your face. It's not telling me you're fine.
- [40:19]
A
Right, Right. And this is for business, too. So talking about. I I would have never used that phraseology. Like you said, everybody uses networks in the brain. Obviously, there's networks in the brain, but it's really about, like, who are the people that we could do this together with. And you talked about in sports.
- [40:36]
B
And by together doesn't mean you have to take on a partner or they have to own half of your family or your endeavor. It just means what talent is needed? That's the thing. What abilities are needed that I need to bring to the party that I don't possess because we don't have all of them.
- [40:54]
A
Yes. So good. It's very specific. And so you think, oh, yeah, I know this overview, but you don't really know it until you read the.
- [41:03]
B
Can can we get to. So we're. You know, you got vision. You got to engage the talent.
- [41:07]
A
Yeah.
- [41:08]
B
The next one is a strategy.
- [41:10]
A
Yep.
- [41:11]
B
You know, how am I going to get there across the room? Well, I could call an Uber. Well, it doesn't really make any sense. Or I could ride a scooter. And then your brain starts to figure, you know, the best way for me to get there is to walk. That's your strategy. And a strategy has to have a plan. And your brain, it's unbelievable. As soon as you start, say, I'm gonna walk across the room, your brain has started to calculate a plan that has specific activities done by whom, at what time. We're not even conscious of this, but your brain is deciding, you know, it's gonna take about probably 12 seconds, 15 seconds to walk over there. One leg has got to take a step every second, about 3ft on a particular direction. All right, well, now we know how we're gonna get there. But a lot of people have never figured out a strategy. They start to do a bunch of different activities to think they're gonna get there, but they don't relate to loading and moving the needle on any particular, particular way. And there's a thousand different ways in there. I talk about two companies, for example, that, you know, all this growth. Chick Fil A is one. They have a growth strategy, and their strategy is to open new stores from inside the company with their people and their branding and their culture. And that's why when a Chick Fil a opens up near you, you walk in, and it works. It's unbelievable. This feels like Chick Fil A. It doesn't feel like Bob's Chicken Sandwiches is trying to figure this out from day one. So I compare that with a regional bank, pretty big regional bank that called me and said, we have A growth strategy. And I said, what is it? They said, we're going to grow across the country. I said, how are you going to do that? They said, by acquisitions, different strategy. They're going to buy little banks and roll them into their brand. And he said, well, we need your help with this. We need to make sure we build that they join us and they get our culture and not infect our culture with a thousand different cultures. We want our brand to have our culture. And then it's really interesting. They said. I said, well, what's your vision for the culture? And they said, we want, when they walk into one of our branches, we want to feel like they're walking into a Chick Fil A. But now think about this. Very different strategies. There's no one right way. One company is going to grow their own, another one is going to go adopt kids and bring them into the family and get them working in family. It's not a right or wrong thing, but you got to know how you're going to get there. Because if you don't, you're going to say yes to everything.
- [44:01]
A
Yeah.
- [44:01]
B
It's going to pull you off track. Your body knows what it's doing. But then the next point, that's number three. But the, the next one is your body. Your brain has already started to build in a measurement and accountability system to answer the question, am I doing what I said I was going to do? That will load on the strategy to move the needle to accomplish my vision. So you know what the plan tells you, what your activities are. But then you're going to have accountability. Your brain's going to hold you accountable. You start to wander off, it's going to notice that, say, hey, get back on, on track. Think of a pilot. I talked about this in the book.
- [44:43]
A
Yeah.
- [44:44]
B
If you're flying from LA to New York, okay, she's got a vision. The pilot's got a vision. When she crowns into that cockpit of a, you know, United or American Airlines or whatever plane, she's got a vision. Land safely in New York. We're going to do this. She's engaged the talent. You got the co pilot, you got the flight, you know, you got everybody, you're gonna need. She has a strategy. How are we gonna get there? We're gonna fly this plane. But there's a flight plan. 40,000ft, certain heading, gonna do that at a certain speed. That's her flight plan. That's gonna make her strategy work. All right. But then her accountability systems. Join the party. Now here's a Problem. Most of us, when we think of somebody holding us accountable, it goes negative.
- [45:40]
A
Right.
- [45:41]
B
They're going to spank me for what I didn't do. Or, you know, they're going to, you know, it's like the senators. Somebody is going to be held accountable for this. And it's all about anger and all that.
- [45:50]
A
Yeah.
- [45:51]
B
You got to get accountability positive because it is your best friend. Your brain could not function without an accountability system. She would not take off on that plane if her accountability relationships weren't intact. The first one's her. Her instrument panel. Yeah, she's up there. Her flight plan shows 40,000ft. She dips down at 38,000. Beep, beep, beep, beep. Altitude low. According to plan. You're right. And she adjusts. I'm burning too much fuel at 38,000. Not going to get there on time. She adjusts. The accountability system helps you get there. And every single performance achievement has some way of asking, am I doing what's important to get me there and when I'm not. And this is huge. And all the research shows this. The fifth step is it quickly fixes it. Because if you don't quickly fix what you didn't do, that you said you were going to do, or you did it in the way, not according. Well, how it's supposed to be done. If you don't quickly fix it, you don't have a problem anymore because it's going to happen again. Now you've got something called a pattern. You're no longer the person who. I didn't wake up one morning and work out like I said I was going to do. I slept in fine. Everybody does that. You know, we have problems, we have BIPs, we have mistakes. But that second morning that alarm clock goes off, or that second night your kid doesn't do their homework, or second week you don't go to your couples group. What happens is now you're laying down neurological wiring. And here's what the research shows. The chances of you continuing down that path after. It's like in New Year's resolution, after a second miss or a third miss, just fall off the chart.
- [47:50]
A
Wow.
- [47:51]
B
Because now you have a pattern. And patterns are mutations of the plan and the strategy and mutations. What do they do in DNA? Mutations create identity. So now you're no longer the person who missed a workout. You're the person who doesn't work out. You become the DNA. And that's why accountability is so important. Now. Some people have it wired in to whatever they're trying to do. They wouldn't miss a day of working out. But how many performers have I worked with that are highly disciplined in performance, but their area of weakness is. Is shut your mouth and listen to your kid before you give advice. See, they may be great at executing something they're already good at, but now to make that happen, sometimes I gotta get the kid involved. Say, hey, when your interruption starts lecturing you before you got the sentence out of your mouth, hold up this yellow flag and wave foul. Or an executive team, you gotta have real time observation. That's accountability. And then deliberately do the new thing. That's how neurological wiring is built. It's so important. It doesn't happen without it.
- [49:08]
A
I love the example that one of the examples that you gave was really just your book writing. So you have 45 books. 45 books. And you say, I'm not an author. Like, as my main.
- [49:22]
B
I am not. I'm not. I am not an author. I'm a practitioner.
- [49:27]
A
You're a practitioner? Yeah. And you say, everyone comes and they say, we don't have any time.
- [49:33]
B
Yeah. I. All these people come and say, oh, I'd love to write a book, but I don't have time. I don't either. I mean, I work full time. Seriously.
- [49:42]
A
Yeah.
- [49:43]
B
But here's the deal. If you have a path that can get you there and you have a system, that's kind of the strategy and the plan. Anybody can write a book because there's a lot of different ways to pull that off. I have big time, you know, athletes and CEOs that say, everybody's telling me to write a book. I don't know how to write a book. I go, dude, the book's already written. It's your story. You just gotta get it on paper.
- [50:16]
A
Yeah.
- [50:17]
B
So let's think about a strategy to do that. Well, I don't type. Who cares? We're going to engage some talent. We're going to bring a ghostwriter. I'm going to take you into a room, we're going to get on a whiteboard, and you're going to tell your story. And this writer is going to take all this stuff down and they're going to record it, and then they're going to go write it for you. And you've written a book, now you're an author. No, I'm not. I'm a CEO. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Or there's 18,000 other ways to do it. That's why strategy is so important. And figuring out what my system is going to be. I don't have time to write books.
- [50:53]
A
And you have accountability. You're like, I have a chief nagging officer
- [50:59]
B
and I've got a system and I gotta, I gotta meet, meet those numbers, you know, and it's not, it's not burdensome. I mean, John Grisham is a great example. John Grisham is, has probably sell more non fiction books than, I mean, fiction books. And most people, at least he was a full time attorney and a state legislator, didn't have time. Right. I mean, think of that. He's got two careers. He's got probably a young family at that time. I don't have time to write a book. You know, he did. He got up 30 minutes early every day or an hour earlier than normal. And he wrote one page a day. And you add all that up, about a year later he's looking at a manuscript called A Time to Kill. And we all saw the movie. He didn't have time either. But what's your system?
- [51:57]
A
Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. I wasn't expecting a business book, you know, because, you know, obviously there's all these books about relationships and you know, hold on.
- [52:08]
B
Because it's not a business book.
- [52:10]
A
Right, right.
- [52:11]
B
There's application of business.
- [52:12]
A
That's true.
- [52:13]
B
But if somebody's gonna lose weight. I talk about my weight loss path because I was in a wheelchair for, you know, a few years ago for like three years and I, I couldn't move well. There was one muscle that worked well and it was the one that brought food to my mouth and, and in. I had three significant surgeries and all this and I couldn't stand up well. I gained close to £40. And I talk about, you know, the path in there of, of how, and I am, I mean, I love to eat more than anything in the world almost. And without a path, I couldn't, couldn't have pulled this out. But it's not just business is my point. It's health, it's raising kids, it's building a family.
- [53:01]
A
Yeah.
- [53:02]
B
Any of it.
- [53:03]
A
Yeah. You say this, I have seen what. And I thought that's, I guess it's framed from you working with people who. I'm like, sometimes it works out. You say sometimes it's working out great and sometimes it's not. And you say, I have seen what seemed impossible be achieved. There is a way forward from which success follows. And it's just such a positive, positive message, but also the important message that there is a way to do it. There is this universal way to do it. Whether it's health goals or goals for relationships or goals for business, these are the five essential steps. I learned a ton. I loved it. Your desired future. The five essential steps you that take you where you want to go. Can you tell people about the online course that they can find@drcloud.com yeah, you
- [53:51]
B
know, a number of years ago, not too many, but a few I just noticed it really started. I mean, it blew up in big ways in Covid that the people were. Were going online to learn stuff they needed to do in life. And, and then I, I thought, well, I'm sitting on all of this content that I can't be everywhere and, and I can't. I mean, I only work with one person at a time. So what I decided to do was create an online really coaching system. And if you go to the, to the website, it's now, it's now called becoming whole. But I think on the website it's stillboundaries me. You can, you can get in there either way by, by going to drcloud.com you'll see it. And I have over a hundred courses on there of everything from clinical issues like depression, anxiety, to relationship problems, marriage, parenting, extended relationships, work relationships, all those skills and then performance, you know, reaching goals. And so people go in there and find that, wow, the book is the book. When does this air?
- [55:02]
A
I'm gonna air it right when the book comes out so people can get it today.
- [55:05]
B
There you go.
- [55:06]
A
It's phenomenal. I highly recommend. I got so much out of it. You know, I think to your point, you brought up at the very beginning, you think you know what you're doing. And I, I kind of would have been that type of person. Like, I think I know what I'm doing. But then I'm like, no, I'm missing nuance here. I'm missing entire pieces like the piece of belief, you know, So I just. It's been a very helpful. All of your books obviously are like that. They're incredibly practical and I got a lot out of it. Your desire, future, the five essential steps that take you where you want to go. You can get it today. It's fantastic. And check out all of your other books as well. There's necessary endings. There's so many phenomenal books. This has been such an honor to get a chance to talk with you. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [55:52]
B
That was what?
- [55:53]
A
Outside.
- [55:55]
B
Oh, gosh, I lived outside.
- [55:58]
A
Yeah.
- [55:59]
B
So there's A lot of them. Two immediately come to mind. One is riding my horse. Horse. Through the woods by myself. It's. It was quiet, it was beautiful. It's just me and God and the horse. That. That's when it came to immediate. Came to mind immediately. And I grew up a competitive golfer. And the other one that came to mind was my first hole in one on number seven at Vicksburg Country Club. About 195 yard part three.
- [56:37]
A
Wow.
- [56:38]
B
Somehow that little white ball found its way into the home.
- [56:41]
A
Oh, isn't that incredible? You'll never forget it. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. I mean, I know obviously you have so much going on, so it's honored to get a chance to talk with you and this incredible book. Thanks for writing it.
- [56:52]
B
Well, Jenny, can I say this? You know, I do a lot of interviews and you. You're really good at this.
- [57:01]
A
Thank you.
- [57:02]
B
But anybody be good at it. But it's. It's much better conversation if the interviewers actually looked at the book.
- [57:12]
A
True.
- [57:13]
B
I was listening to, you know, more about the book than I know.
- [57:17]
A
It does help a bit, doesn't it? I loved the book and it's. It's already helping my life and I just. And from a mom's perspective, you know, to have our kids interacting with your books. My friend Nicole recommended these for our. For our daughter who's, you know, like, when you're 15, 16, there can be friends stuff. And so I just, you know, you'll never know the ripple effect, you know, when you read 20 billion books sold, whatever it is, it's like. But that represents so many, so many, so much more. Because, like, that's a ripple generationally, that's ripple in family units, you know, so it's like, okay, you got that number of books sold, but how many people have you impacted? It's just like uncountable. So it's an honor.
- [58:00]
B
Well, just sitting around, you know, one word at a time.
- [58:04]
A
Yeah.
- [58:04]
B
You never know what it's gonna do, but you gotta. You gotta take the first step.
- [58:09]
A
Yeah. Thank you so much for being here.
- [58:11]
B
Thanks, Jenny.