← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 810: The Missing Roadmap to Adulthood | JP Pokluda, Welcome to Adulting
00:55:26
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- [00:01]
A
Summer gets busy fast. One minute you're easing into warmer weather, and the next you're juggling sports schedules, swim days, camping trips, road trips, late nights around the fire, and trying to keep the house from completely falling apart in the middle of all of it. And if you're a cat family, too, there's still the everyday stuff waiting for you at home, including the litter box. That's why Whiskers Litter Robot is such a game changer. During busy seasons, it automatically cycles after every use, so you're not constantly scooping or dealing with litter cleanup every single day. It just handles the dirty work for you. And the Whisker app notifies you about your unit, like when a clean cycle is complete, when drawer levels are getting full, or if the unit needs attention. You can always track things like your cat's weight and bathroom usage over time, which makes it easy to stay aware of changes without having to constantly check in. Honestly, during a packed summer, having one last daily chore to think about makes a huge difference. Maintain your cat's litter while focusing on your growing family. Learn more about Whisker Litter robot models and starter kits today to get set up before the summer craziness arrives. Take an additional $50 off bundles with code 1000 when you shop whisker.com 1000hours that's an additional $50 off bundles with Code 1000hours@whisker.com 1000hours welcome to the 1000hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urton, the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I'm so excited. I've been such a fan for a long time. JP Paluta is here. He's written phenomenal books. He has a phenomenal podcast. He's touring the country, speaking at colleges and talking to young adults. Welcome, JP.
- [01:27]
B
Hey, friend, should I be outside? I feel like I should be. I'm not spending hours outside.
- [01:33]
A
You know, the whole thing is so interesting. We've been spending a lot of time outside since our kids were really little, and it was more because I was losing my mind as a mom, and it was just really tricky to make it through the day with young children. And, you know, kind of been leading this movement for close to 15 years of like, get your kid outside. And then we're kind of on the cusp of adulthood with our oldest couple kids, and I'm like, I hope. I hope it worked. I hope it's working. So. And I do. I see a lot of the benefits of it. And obviously there's a lot of family time that we've had over the years, and there's developmental benefits. But I was super interested, intrigued about talking to you because you have a lot of information about this transition into young adulthood. And I think it's incredibly important for. For parents. And no matter what age your kids are at or if you're a young adult yourself and you're kind of like, this is tricky to figure out. You offer a lot of resources. So I've got two books here of yours. One's called welcome to Adulting, Navigating Faith, Friendship, Finances, and the Future. And then I have Outdated, which is a great cover. And a. I mean, that's such a clever title. Outdated. Finding Love that Last. When Dating has Changed. You had a book that came out in January earlier this year called your story has a Villain. And you got your own podcast. People can sign up for your newsletter because you have a lot going on. Speaking, a tour may be coming up here. So I. I would love to kick it off with the story that opens. Welcome to Adulting is such a great story. It's such a great story. And you. You can just kind of imagine yourself, like, in the situation where the story is. You're at your graduation, your college graduation. You're like, I did art. I mean, I kind of, like, I didn't really know. So I'm walking across. I'm getting my diploma. My parents paid for this. And you're like, but I'm not really paying attention because I'm there with my girlfriend. But there's another girl there that I was secretly dating on the side, and she brought a friend with her who I also kind of liked.
- [03:26]
B
Man, did I really start the book like that? I guess I don't even remember. And I'm like, I'm. It's so funny because that story just came up. My goodness. I was somewhere this past weekend and Monica brought that up because I will tell you, and I don't know if I bring this clarity to the book. I. I married the one of those three, but it wasn't the girlfriend. It wasn't the girlfriend I was with at the time. So Monica's Monica, my wife now came to my graduation and then brought her friend. And my. It just is like my life was such a train wreck. And then from there that I go into young adult ministry, which wasn't. I didn't want to. I was. I was completely lost at that moment in my life. I did not know God. I was running from him as hard and fast as I could. And then he grabbed a hold of my heart and I. I got saved and then five years. And I grew up in church now, mind you. I mean, I was very much. Had grown up in church, but I got saved shortly after that. And then five years later, went into vocational ministry. And then. And then, as God would have it, started leav. Leading the young adult. The. The largest young adult ministry on earth or wow. At the time. And. And I am having this same conversation over and over and over with. I mean. I mean, it is Groundhog Day. Young adults graduate from college. They're like, is this really it? Like now? I mean, is this it? I. I mean, this is what I went to school with my. For my whole life is. Is this right here would just basically wake up and go to work and help people make money and come home and try to make enough where I can live and then go back to work and. And like, is this it? I think I'm gonna go back and take the gmat. I think I'm gonna go back to college. It's funny because our whole lives, we hated school. We didn't, you know, we didn't want. We didn't want to go to class. And then you graduate from school and you're like, man, I'm going back to school like this if this is it. And I think. I think navigating that as a parent is exceptionally hard. And so we have one now in college, we still have two at home, one in high school, one in junior high. And yeah, it is. I. It is. It is. It is really challenging. I'll say this to the moms that are listening. I think so much of this season, parenting, this season of life, is telling them what's going to happen. The word I'll use is telegraph. And so with my, like, my daughters, and they're, you know, my son, he's at that age where he thinks he knows everything. But my daughters, they think I have a direct line to God, you know, because, I mean, they think. And what I do, by the way, name Jesus. But they. They think, like, I can see the future because I'm telling them, hey, when you get to this grade, you know, this is going to be the conversation. Locker rooms, you're going to see. Everybody's going to start dating. You're going to see lots of. Lots of tears, you know, lots of drama. Like, this is the stuff that's going to happen around you. And they're coming to me like, dad, how did you know? Like, how did you know? And that you earn so much trust with them if you can just telegraph, hey, this is what the next season is. And this is how you survive it. Once you tell them what the next season is, then when they're in it, they're like, hey, how do I survive it? Like, what do I need to do? And so that is. That's a parenting hack. I'll. I'll go ahead and say out the gate.
- [06:51]
A
That's a good one. It's a good one. And this book. I mean, these books draw you in their page turners, you say, this mess was a microcosm of my life. I was a little distracted from the diploma I was holding because sitting behind my girlfriend was another girl I had been secretly dating in Waco.
- [07:07]
B
Yeah.
- [07:07]
A
And she had driven over with another girl whom I was also interested in. So this is, this is the truth. I mean, and in. And I think even in more so because things have gotten more expensive and artificial intelligence is like, messing with the job market quickly, rapidly. You know, there's always been changes in jobs, but they happen slowly. There used to be someone who would reset the bowling pins. You know, I mean, there's always been that, but it's just such a rapid pace. And so one of the things that you talk about is, okay, as a culture, we're getting married later. And I would say, you know, that the married life, you know, the, the building of the home, the children, as stressful as it is, it's also kind of fun. So one of the things that you talk about, and I hate this, I hate this, you say these choices are so important, though, and it's ridiculous. You say it's. It's the first time. And this is why I'm not super into micromanaging parenting. I think that the time outside and just freedom, it helps kids so that they can start to learn to make their own decisions. You say choices here, so into these young adult years are more important than they are at any other time in their lives. But it's also the first time they've gotten to make these decisions. So they're not very good at it yet. And I remember I used to teach high school and I remember, you know, I've had ninth grade algebra, and the kids are like, this is boring and stupid and I'm not interested. I'm like, yes, okay, I get it. Why do I have to learn it? I'm like, I don't really know. You know, there's a very few people that are going to actually use it. The government says you need to learn it. You know, no child, you can't be left behind. But I would say if you, you, if you get an A or B or a c as a 14 year old this actually matters. Like there is, there is some trajectory here based off of what you do when you're 14 years old and 15 years old that can affect your college and where you graduate. It's just, it's kind of nuts how we do it.
- [09:09]
B
It matters more than ever and less than ever at the same time more than ever in as you're saying the GPA and what's determines if you get into college, the college you go and what you study. So that matters a lot less than ever in the fact that so many people are being educated by YouTube and they're getting out of college and they've got a social media business and they crowdsourced you know, a million dollars because they, you know, so it's like you got, it's like a double edged sword. Like both of those things are happening at once.
- [09:37]
A
I heard a statistic that 1 in 8 gen Z makes money off their social media which is a pretty high percentage. Yeah and that's a, that's a tricky thing to guide kids through as well. You know I've got friends. I mean that's kind of what we're talking about at this. It's like we're not talking about pot training anymore. It's like are you going to send your kid to college? Are you not if, if you send them, what are you sending them for? And, and you know, is that career path? Does that make sense? And there's just a lot of questions surrounding that. And I think you know, in historically it was like you just grew up and you figured it out on your own. But I do think in some ways it's a little bit trickier now. So I like what you say, like tell them what to expect and, and what is it going to be like what advice do you have for those transition years when you know I remember that like trying to figure out college and it's, they're just such huge decisions. And I know you've like you said you've worked in college ministry and in young adults when they are overwhelmed. College? No college. Which college. Dating, you know, what kind of advice are you starting to give?
- [10:40]
B
Yes parents, you got to be a student of your, your child. And so it's, they're all different and so in our house we have three kids. They each, all three of them could not be any more different. And my oldest is just like me. My middle child is just like Monica and then our youngest is a is a mix of both of us and we have one who's very free spirited. Artsy. People, people, people, people. Never wants to miss out on fun. And so for her it was like, man, college was an option. You know, it's like it's not your only option. We could buy some rent houses maybe and you could manage them and you could start a business, we could sell art. I mean, there's just, it was just like college is an option. And so as we're looking for schools, the game, you know, the, the strategy with her was he, how do we make sure that she's surrounded by good influences? First Corinthians 15:33 says, do not be deceived by company. Corrupts good character. You know, the, it says, walk with the wise and become wise for a companion, a fool suffers harm. So with her it was just really like, man, how do we get you around? Good influences. And I, I think you're, you know, you're going to change the world. With my middle one, our middle one, she's great at school. Like, it just comes easy to her. Is this is a true, what I'm about to tell you is 100 true? My oldest daughter, I never once ever, not one time saw her do homework. Not one single time in her entire home. Like the 18 years she lived with us. Not one time did I ever see her do homework. Not once. Okay. My middle daughter, there has never been an evening that I haven't seen her parked at the kitchen island on Saturday, on Friday night, Saturday night, she is at that island doing homework. There's never been a night I've not seen her do homework. Both of those extreme statements are 100 true. And, and so for her it's like, yeah, you're, we're looking at Ivy League schools, you know, like school is your thing. Like, where can we get you the best education? And then for my youngest son right now, I mean he's 13, so that a lot can change. But it's, it's very likely going to be trade school. He loves cars and engines and engineering and making things. And so you have to study each of them individually and you can't be this like one size fits all, you know, parent. It's not, you know, it's just, that's not, that's not going to work. We, we want to study our kids. The best way to love them is to study them and trying to help them find that path. And you're right, like at 18, like at 18 years old, you're supposed to choose a career Path. Like what? Like you're supposed to know what you're doing when you're 35, when you're 18. Like, I, I, gosh, you saw what a mess my life was at at 20, you know, much less 18. And so I, I think we really, like, as parents, we're showing them the way they should go, all while also holding it loosely, knowing that, you know, there's, there's big mistakes that they can make at this age, but almost all of them are correctable. Like, almost all of them are like, okay, that was, that was a big miss, but now let's get back on track. And we're just, you know, we're kind of the, if you've ever been bowling and you, you know, you have the bumpers in the, that it's parenting. We're kind of, that we're like, hey, yeah, well, if you go over there, that's, that's not going to go well for you. But, but yeah, you, you do you.
- [14:11]
A
I love that illustration. Yeah, just those, those bumpers, you know, just a little bit of, a little bit of course correction. At least you get to knock down like one pin. You know, you don't like, totally miss, you say. I've learned that college and school in general doesn't prepare anyone for life's biggest challenges. The darkest days for many are those years following college. This is where someone goes from the one routine that they'd had since age 5, class, teachers, tests, to another routine that is full of freedom and no one is really ready for it. It's full of just unknowns. You're like, what am I even supposed to do? I just spent 13 years someone telling me what to do. Then I did four more years of it. Maybe I did even more. And then you're like, well, I remember that. No, I'm supposed to go interview. Like, what am I supposed to tell them? So the books really help? They help you guide. They help. I think that it would be great for the parent to read it or also the teen young adult navigating faith, friendship, finances in the future. And then one that's specifically for dating. Lately, I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day and being drawn into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable, and still put together. It makes getting dressed so much simpler. And honestly, Quince has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering, and everything just works without overthinking it. Quince makes it really easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim so everything feels high quality right from the start. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30 and they're breathable, easy to wear and perfect for repeating throughout the week without getting tired of them. 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Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendar when you go to my skylight.com 1000 hours that's my S K-Y-L-I G H T.com 1000 hours for $30 off. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and it's a good reminder that life is a journey with highs and lows Some days feel light and steady, and other days feel overwhelming, like there are too many things to car and not enough space to sort through them. I think one of the little lies we believe is that we're supposed to figure it all out on our own. But the truth is no one has all the answers, and no journey is meant to be walked alone. Therapy can be a place where you don't have to have it all together. A place to talk through what's keeping you up at night, to gain an outside perspective, and to feel supported instead of stuck. If you've been feeling overwhelmed or unsure, that's more common than we think. And it's okay to get help sorting through it. That's why I appreciate better help. Their therapists are fully licensed in the US and follow a strict code of conduct. They match you with a therapist to a short questionnaire so you can focus on your goals. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. With over 30,000 therapists and more than 6 million people served globally and an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 across 1.7 million reviews. It's a platform people trust. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com 1000 hours. That's B E T T E R h e l p.com/1000hours. So one of the things then that you talk about is work. So you know these kids are heading into the world of work, and that can look really different. You brought up earlier, you, it could be a social media business that you've done. It could be a 9 to 5 job. But you talk about how passion, passion is not the way to go. I talked to this lady once, she was like, well, what if you're passionate about penguins? What are you gonna do? So you really frame work as a good thing. Dr. Arthur Brooks, he's got a book about it. He, like, really, work is a really good thing. So can you talk about. You brought up, you were like, what was I supposed to be? A race car driver? Like, I never tried it. What if I was supposed to be? Yeah, yeah.
- [19:31]
B
And like, my mom, like, growing up, my mom was like, you can do anything. You can do anything. And I found out she lied to me because, like, I'm six, seven, you know, I'm, I'm £270 and like, I'm not gonna be a jockey, you know, no matter how bad I want to be a Jockey, like a horse, like race horses. Like, that's not gonna happen. So God didn't make me to do everything. But there's a lot of things that I can do. I kind of approach dating in a similar way. It's like, it's. I don't believe in the one. It's. You're not trying to find one person in 8 billion people, but there's. There is a smaller group of people that you can choose from. And so we're trying to narrow down the choices as parents, too. We're trying to say it's like, hey, you can't really do anything. But there's these things that we think you'd be good at. And you have a generation rising up that are. They're kind of like, they're incredibly optimistic at times, and they're like, well, I'm not passionate about that. Well, who cares, because you got to eat. And I don't know. You know, this is. This is a really new phenomenon. In fact, you can, like, chart the, you know, pursue your passions on Google, and it's just exploded in the past decade. But prior to 20 years ago, in granite, Google's new. And I get that. I understand the illustration breaks down, but even, like searching in library terms and, and, you know, the way that we would find books, then the microfish and whatnot, it's like we. This is a new phenomenon. It wasn't in print very many times because, like, our great, great grandfather wasn't like, am I passionate about farming? He's like, no, I gotta eat, so I'm gonna farm. And like, that's. That's what my dad did and his dad did, so that's what I'm gonna do. And now we're like, well, we got the Enneagram, the Myers Briggs, the lion, Otter, beaver, Strengths finder, personality test, culture index. Like, what am I made to do? And there's. Listen, that's great. Like, sure, you know, there. Those are great tools. And ultimately you were made to work. And work is not. I'm, you know, I'm a theologian, and so I see things through a biblical worldview. It's like, work is not the result of sin. Like, prior to sin entering the world, we worked. And we're going to work in heaven forever and ever and ever and ever, we're going to work. So work is a good thing. And so we've got to figure out how to be good at it and do it well. And, you know, do you have to do what you love? I would say you have to Love what you do. Like you want to find enjoyment in working and somebody's got to dig trenches. And if nobody likes to dig trenches and nobody's passionate about digging trenches, trenches still need to be dug. So there has to be someone that says, you know what, I will do it and I will make the most of it and I will earn a living in doing it. And you know, and my family's going to eat because I was willing to do the thing that nobody else wanted to do. And I can find joy in that. And so, I mean, teaching our kids that first and foremost is I think, really important. Otherwise your greatest disappointments come from your expectations. And if we send them into the real world with an expectation that, that they're gonna always do what they love, we're setting them up for deep depression and despair because they're going to bump their head up against a bad boss, you know, some, a tyrant, a, a bad authority figure and they're going to think, man, mom and dad didn't prepare me for this, that I didn't, I didn't know this is how it goes. And yeah, again that, that's some thoughts on it.
- [22:53]
A
It's good. It's a realistic view of what it is and what it's supposed to be. And you say we're supposed to provide for our families and this is giving you practice for, you know, if down the road, not for everybody, but if you end up having a dependent or more than one. So you're starting off as your household of one. And you talked about like with the art example. So you, you can just see, see this kind of like what every parent does, you know, your kids like 16, 17. You're like, well, what do you like to do?
- [23:21]
B
You know?
- [23:22]
A
And, and you're like, well, I like art. She's like, okay, we can work with that. There, there's an art school. And as a parent, you're like, oh, there's an answer. You know, there's something I'm gonna be able to do this kid in this, you know, topsy turvy time that's full of open ended scenarios. And so what you said was, and I thought this was such a key, you said you like art. I'm passionate about it. I'm not passionate when someone tells me that I have to do it.
- [23:47]
B
Yeah, yeah, I learned that the hard way.
- [23:49]
A
Yeah. And that, I mean that actually is a really key point. Like if you start at passion, it's like, well, they might be passionate about it when, when they have open ended free time, but Are they passionate about it? When someone's breathing down their neck and they've got a deadline and, you know, and they got to do revisions and they liked it, but the other per, you know, the client doesn't. And so I think those are important questions to ask. It's, you know, your mom's like, oh, we can work with it. Art, that's great, but you have to kind of take it a step further. What would that actually look like in a career scenario? And so you say, you don't have to love your job. You don't get paid for enjoying it.
- [24:23]
B
Yeah, that's a hobby. Hobbies are what you do, you know, that you love. Yeah, if you loved it, like, they wouldn't have to pay you for it. The reason they pay you to do a job is they're bribing you to do it. They're, hey, if you do this, we'll actually give you money, you know, and so, like, that's, you know, we. We work to provide for ourselves and our families and to be generous.
- [24:47]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's like such a missing piece of childhood where we don't really talk about it too much. You know, it's coming. You know, you talk about. This is one of the delineations between childhood and adulthood, is now you're working, you know, but the, you know, the millennials, they're changing jobs every couple years, and that's probably partially because of the way the economy is. But I think sometimes it's. It's because of. Delusion is the wrong word. But, like, it's like when you think something's going to be some way and then it's not.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah. Missed expectations.
- [25:16]
A
Yes. And so it's good to talk about what is it really for and what is it really like? And then you get skilled at it over time. That's one of the things that you talk about. So you say, follow your passion is a really, really bad advice.
- [25:29]
B
It can be. I mean, it's like, it's not. It's just not complete advice. And so what happens, especially with the generation coming up, is if they follow their passions, it's their past. Your passions change like the wind. And you never become an expert because expert always comes after, you know, completely losing passion and getting really defeated in something. And you say, you know what? I'm going to keep going. And now I've pushed through the difficulties and I've risen above the rest because the. The difficulties, the. The bad authority, the bad day, the grind, the burnout. That's kind of that's kind of pushed everyone away. They, they went and said, all right, I'm just gonna go and, you know, back to serving coffee. Or I'm gonna go back to this thing over here. I'm back to this. And, and you said, no, I'm gonna keep going. And now you've become an expert in medicine, you've become an expert in law, you've become an expert in art, you become an expert in coffee. Like, right. It's, it's, that's what's different. As you said, hey, I'm not just going to serve coffee, but now I'm going to learn everything I can about coffee. I'm going to learn about roast. I'm going to learn about grind size. I'm going to learn about the preparations, the aeropress, the pour over, the French press, you know, the drip, the percolator. And now you, you've become the coffee expert. And that sets you apart from everyone else. And so it's like, that's, that's the thing that is, is missing if you just say, hey, follow your passions, passions like physical attraction and dating. It can put you on, it can point you in a direction, but it's not going to carry you to the destination thing. That's good. I've never said that before, but somebody should write that down. It'll point you in a direction, but it's not going to carry you all the way to the destination.
- [27:10]
A
I'll send you a copy of the video.
- [27:12]
B
There you go. Nice.
- [27:14]
A
You know, talking about the theology of work, one of the things that I was always confused about, and actually it wasn't clear to me until the past couple years, I talked to this man, his name's Dan Buettner, and he studies different places. They're called Blue zones. He named them Blue Zones. They're just like where people live really long. Like they live to be into their hundreds and centenarians. And he said, in a lot of these cultures, they don't have a word for retirement. Like, it doesn't exist. It's like not even a concept. And then I, I mean, I read another book and they're like, biblically. You don't really see it now, obviously sometimes these people were living like 800 years. So it's like kind of different. But I think part of the push toward anti work is because the whole culture is framed around this idea that you quit at some point.
- [27:53]
B
Yeah.
- [27:53]
A
And it's just for a certain time. So I think that this viewpoint is really important to work is a good Thing like you said, supposed to provide for our families. You can advance the gospel. And then you talk about all the trappings. There's a lot of trappings there too. And you talk about avoiding debt. All the things that a young person would really need to know.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah. The truth is when you quit working, you start dying. I mean, that, that's what your friends research showed and that's, that's just reality. And you think, man, one day I'm going to buy the RV and you know, travel the world and collect seashells. And it's like, yeah, but that's also when your whole health fades, fails, and you're in, you know, your, your in diapers again. And it's just like all kinds of terrible things. And so your. The best mindset is like, oh, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna, like, life is a grind. I'm gonna work hard and I'm gonna learn to enjoy it. And. And you get longevity out of that too.
- [28:39]
A
Yeah, it's true. That's what the centenarians do. Okay, so you told this story and welcome to adulting. So I grew up going to church and I had a grandpa who was an alcoholic. So my mom was always like, don't drink, you're gonna get addicted. So I was like, okay, fine. And I just, just, I never did. And so I've never really totally understood it, you know, I'm like, I have a great life. I'm very happy, I'm very fulfilled. Like, I, you know, I don't get the, you know, and, and think, I think just I wasn't exposed to it at a young age. So I actually remember being in those college years and I went to, I used to lifeguard and I went to a party with all the lifeguards after and like, everyone's drinking. I never drank anyway. And there was this kid and he was totally drunk and he kept trying to light a candle with like, with a lighter, but the candle didn't have a wick. So he kept burning his finger. But he like, didn't know because he was drunk and he just kept going, ow. I was like, I don't really get this. Like, why would anybody want to be that inebriated and like, not really know what's going on? But I know obviously this is a huge part of culture for young people starting in high school. This is at parties, drugs and alcohol. And this is part of your story, right? You're like, I'm doing all these things. Maybe not drugs, I don't know.
- [29:53]
B
Yeah, I thought that's where I thought that story was going is like. And it was you. You were the kid with the candle. Oh man.
- [29:59]
A
So what you talk about, like this whole party scene that everyone is used to hearing about in this teens into college age and you went to though this retreat. It wasn't a retreat. It was just like a weekend.
- [30:12]
B
Yeah, just like a guy, like guy's weekend at the lake house.
- [30:15]
A
Yeah, a friend's weekend at a lake house. And you were like shocked. You're like, no one's drinking.
- [30:22]
B
Yeah.
- [30:22]
A
And also I'm having a good time. Can you talk about how that just changed things for you?
- [30:27]
B
Yeah, well, I thought, you know, you go out there, we're talking about expectations. Like I. Guys, guys, Weekend at the lake house always meant, you know, drug sex and rock and roll or hip hop in my case. I mean it was just like the party, if you will. And so I'm going out there. Were expecting that like at least like they were, they were playing golf and. And so I was waiting for them at the house thinking, okay, when they get home, we'll crack open a beer, you know, we'll see where the night goes. Well, they get home and we start grilling. I go in the fridge. There's no alcohol anywhere. There's no liquor cabinet. Okay, all right. Okay, all right. This is a different, different party, you know, wonder where this is going to go. And we just start having these really meaningful conversations. And at some point in the night I remember thinking, man, I think these guys like, these guys, they talk about the world and the problems in the world, like with solutions, like they could change the world. And then I started thinking, I think they could. Like before the end of the evening, I'm like, I think these guys could actually change the world. And they're sober minded. And we laughed until we cried and people told jokes and it was like, like wholesome. And you know, I remember we played poker, but like with chips. And I think the, the buy in was like 10 bucks. And, and just the conversation was, was so holy. And I couldn't sleep that night because it was like the most fun I had ever had. But like for me at this moment in my life, the only way, like if you just said, hey, you're gonna have the most fun you've ever had without alcohol, I would have said, that's impossible. There's no way me and here I am, the most fun I've ever had. I can't sleep because I'm just so amped. And I call my best friend the next morning. And he, you know, answers all groggy and hungover and. And I'm just like, man, we've been missing it. Like, we've been missing it. It was a turning point in my life because I realized, like, okay, there's this other fun. Like, you know, Jim Collins said at one point, you know, good is the enemy of great. And I think this idea that, like, you think, oh, this is fun, it kind of keeps you from ever finding true fun. Well, Jesus said, you know, I've come so that they might have life and have it to the fullest. And so here I am, sober minded, you know, now I'm 45 years old and I've done coke and I've messed with, you know, all kinds of drugs and smoked weed and got been drunk for every day for a season of my life. And I partied in Vegas and I've partied in the clubs, and I, you know, all of the. The sex and all of the things. And I would just say, man, I found something better in following Christ. I mean, I just have. And I'm sober. Like, I'm not delusional. I'm not crazy. Like, I'm just. Man, it just. I've just found a full life with. With God's people. And I think showing our kids that, right? I mean, like, at our home, like, we have a blast. I want our home to be the most fun home. And I want the kids to be like, dude, the pastor's house, man, that's. That's where you have fun. But they're not talking about, you know, the keg stands or, you know, taking shots. They're just talking about good wholesome conversation around ice cream or. Or whatever it is we're doing.
- [33:35]
A
Yeah. Wow. You know what? You read all these books. Like, I don't know, I talked to Lee Strobel Wines or I got talked to Max, you know, and they, you know, they have these stories and there's like a person or a group or an event that's like, hey, come to church, come to church, come to church. Or, you know, someone's sister gave me the Bible some, you know, and like, who are these guys? You know, these random guys that just were living, right?
- [34:02]
B
Yeah.
- [34:02]
A
And they don't know. They don't know that by saying, hey, we're gonna invite this guy to this weekend, we've already developed a culture, you know, where we're not drinking, we're not doing drugs. And I mean, who knows? Were they nervous? They're like, JP might hate this, you know, but we're gonna invite him anyway. And they, they would never know. This is a turning point.
- [34:20]
B
Oh, dude, I gotta say this, I gotta say this. So, like, late. So I, like, became friends with those guys that was kind of like, I didn't know them well.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah.
- [34:28]
B
And somebody invited me. And then, and then like after that weekend, we became friends. Well, then ultimately, like, you know, I become a Christian and I go into ministry and, and they all, we all now go to the same church and the church I work at, you know, and they, they were, they were talking about how they would do this, how they would have these, these lakehouse weekends and they would invite a lost person into the weekend. And so I'm like, talking to him and I'm like, oh, man, it's awesome. So who was the lost person? When I, when I, and I was like, oh,
- [34:58]
A
oh, that made me cry almost.
- [35:00]
B
I was, oh, I was the lost person. And it was just crazy like, that they did that. And so then I continued to do that. I would do this thing called I'm not supposed to talk about it, but Dead Poker Society, and it's like a secret society where you, you, you invite a bunch of, like, solid people and then you invite one or two, you know, people who are kind of on the fringe and not so sure and, and, you know, don't have good friends, and you're like, hey, come into it. And then they, they bump up against these Christians and have a great time. And, you know, then you never know.
- [35:33]
A
This person's gonna have a bunch of books, they're gonna have a podcast, a podcast tour to be a pastor of a church. Somebody invited me, I mean, and they were living it, they were living it themselves. And the most fun I had ever had. What a statement. Jp wow. And then you call your buddy Matt, you're like, hey, hey, guess what? Wow. Okay. These books are really powerful. And I think it just, it's good, it's good to read as a parent. You can talk about these stories with your kids. It's good to read. If you got someone in your life that's a graduate coming up, these would be a great set of books to give them. Your outdoor space should feel like you. And for the longest time, ours just didn't. We had those random plastic chairs that somehow followed us from house to house, a patio that felt more like a pass through than a place to gather, and a grill that we kept saying we'd replace someday. It just wasn't a space we were excited to use. And then I found wayfair and everything kind of clicked. We added simple, comfortable seating, an outdoor rug that grounded the space, and a few pieces that actually matched the look I had in my head. Now it feels like an extension of our home. We eat outside more, the kids linger longer, and it's just easier to be out there. What I love is how simple Wayfair makes the process. You can filter by size, style, budget, read real reviews from real homes and with Wayfair Verified you know you're choosing from items that have already been vetted for quality, and having everything in one place from seating to lighting to decor made it feel manageable instead of overwhelming. Get prepped for patio season. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home this time of year in homeschooling is really special. You're wrapping up projects, looking at how far your kids have come and helping them finish strong. It's also a great moment to reinforce key skills and build confidence as you head into summer and as routines start to shift with travel camps and more time outside, it helps to have something that keeps learning steady without overcomplicating your days. That's where IXL can be such a helpful tool. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that fits seamlessly into homeschooling. It offers interactive practice across math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out is the real time feedback and progress tracking. Kids get immediate explanations as they go and you can clearly see growth over time, what's clicking and where. A little reinforcement can go a long way. It's a simple way to finish the year strong and keep skills fresh heading into the summer. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours. Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Lately I've been trying to simplify my closet, just choosing pieces that are comfortable, easy to wear and still look put together without a lot of effort. That's really why I keep coming back to Quince. The quality is there, the fit is right and everything just makes sense. Quince makes it easy to refresh your everyday this spring with Pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton, and ultra soft denim. So you're getting that elevated feel without overpaying. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at $30. And they're the kind of pieces you can wear again and again because they're breathable, versatile, and just work. One thing I've been wearing a ton lately is the everyday fleece joggers. They're perfect for those cool spring mornings. Really soft, super comfortable, but still structured enough that I don't feel like I'm just in loungewear all day. And that's the thing with quints. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they go straight to ethical factories and skip the middlemen. So you're getting great quality without paying for the label. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-E.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside. Let's talk about dating. Yeah, okay, so you say from the fifth grade on, I never was without a girlfriend. Most of these relationships overlapped. I'd start seeing someone new before breaking up with my existing girlfriend. A strategy more commonly known as cheating. It's great writing, very entertaining.
- [39:43]
B
See, like, you're. I know your audience is like a lot of moms and they're gonna hate me. They're like, what a terrible human being.
- [39:50]
A
I just think, you know, we just mess it up sometimes. But I think it's important to talk about. Okay. I learned about this chemical from this man named Adam Lane Smith myth. It's called vasopressin. And it's like when you do things together and you start to bond and like, this helps to form your family. Obviously, there's oxytocin. I just think, like, I kind of learned about this as a kid at church. And people be like, I don't know. Now people think it's like, prudish. But there are some legit statistics about waiting for intimacy until marriage. Like, legit. And it's because of those chemicals, right? Like, people will be like, well, if you Velcro, I don't know, people think these are dumb or not, but, like, if you Velcro, then it's really strong the first time. But everybody knows you got your little Velcro shoes. You know, at some point they don't stick anymore. So can you talk about. First of all, this is probably one of the biggest topics, right? Because it's like, there's thrill to it and hope, but there's also despair and heartbreak. And you wrote in outdated, everyone wants to be loved. And actually, this was super interesting. This is an outdated. The book you wrote. People are getting married later, but when they survey, they say that they actually want to get married young. They are interested in getting married, like, the same age as their grandparents, which is like early 20s.
- [41:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. People are getting married later, getting married less, and marriages aren't lasting. Like, we. We're in the midst of a real problem. I'm. I'm not super optimistic about it, but I am doing my part. You asked me, you were so kind to ask me ahead of time. Time of like, hey, is there anything, you know, where they, where they can find you or anything you're working on? I've been working with these guys on brilliant guys, on trying to create a, like, matchmaking service. Because I've got. I've got two daughters and a son, and I'm looking at the future and I'm like, man, it is like, the future is gloomy on the relationship, marriage front. Because, I mean, dating is a. Dating as we know and understand it is. The phenomenon is about 120, 130 years old. Like, prior to 130 years ago, no one in the history of the world had ever been on a date. Like, let that sink in. And I know there's people arguing with me in their head, like, is that true? It really started with the invention of the automobile. Like, prior to the automobile, you wouldn't date. And so you would, like, go to someone's house. You would sit with their family in their living room or on their front porch. The whole family would get to know you. And everyone married someone that was born within five with someone within five miles of where they were born. Like, that's most of history. Prior to that, like, biblical times, it was arranged marriage. So you would meet your spouse at the altar. Like, that's what has happened for most of history. Well, now we're asking questions like, well, how important is chemistry? How important is physical attraction? Like, for most of history, you would meet your spouse at. On the wedding day. You know, it's like. Or like, if you lived in the same community, maybe your parents. It was like this arranged thing between two families in some cultures. Right? So we really have to unlearn some things here to say, okay, what if I prioritize the wrong things. Because as we've prioritized chemistry and physical attraction, divorces has skyrocketed. Marriage satisfaction rate has plummeted. I mean, there's lots of people that stay married, but they're not happy. And then. And then we get. We're getting married later and later and later and later. For the first time in history, there's more single people than there are married people, people in relationships. I. I read that stat recently somewhere. So I'm like, okay, there's an issue. And I think as. As parents, we really have to reframe this, because the way that people date right now, it's like, so when they go through a breakup, it's the equivalent emotionally to a divorce. I mean, they're like, they, like, have given of themselves. You talked about something oxytocin. And, and the way that we bond through the act of sex. That's absolutely true. Something psychiatrists call sex glue. This is God's design. He says, for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother. You be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. Well, through the act of intimacy, whenever we experience sexual release, our brain creates a synapse bonding us through our five senses to surroundings. This is an absolute scientific fact. It is a real biological phenomenon. And, and you were. We were made to bond to one person for a lifetime. So if we, if we train ourselves to bond to variety or through, you know, the, the dysfunction of pornography, we introduce these other images, then really we're getting married with all kinds of sexual dysfunction in our lives. I'm not trying to speak shame over people like, this is my story. These are things that I personally have had to heal from and, and recover from. You know, and it is. And healing and recovery is available to you, but you got to start it, you know, you've got to start somewhere. And as parents, if we can get in front of that for our children and show them that there is a better way, rather than to say, you know, hey, you got to try it before you buy it, kind of thing like, that message is so dangerous and toxic and hurtful and harmful to people. And so we're trying to figure out, all right, what is the right way? And I think the right way, unlike the. The ideal, you date one person. You, you know, you. When you're at the age and maturity for marriage, you. You begin to date. You try to find someone to marry. You date them to confirm that they are a suitable spouse, and then you get married. I think that's the ideal, you know, and then after you're married, then you get to. For the rest of your life, vision, figure out the intimate stuff. You know, the things where you actually can create another human being.
- [45:35]
A
You wrote they become the one.
- [45:38]
B
Yeah.
- [45:38]
A
Because you've married them.
- [45:39]
B
That's right.
- [45:40]
A
And that the actual phrase soulmate. I didn't know this. I would learn this in your book. Outdated. It comes from an actual myth.
- [45:46]
B
Yeah. Greek mythology.
- [45:47]
A
Like, not only is it a myth, but it comes from a myth. Your soulmate, they become the one because you marry them. And so this isn't really a different time. I would be curious to know what you would be wanting your matchmaking service to do, because obviously, like the dating apps, one of the things that you talked about was a couple things. Okay. This man, Dr. Arthur Brooks, he talks about this a lot because he's like a Harvard professor about happiness. And he deals with graduate students. So they're like, in their mid to late 20s, and he's like, all they want is to find their person. So he's like, this is a lot of what we talk about. And then he told me that part of. Of, like, part of finding a person is the way that they smell. So have you heard the study, like, they had all these women that smelled these guys. Shirts. Have you heard this? Okay, so he talks about in his books, they had all these men that wore their shirt for, like, a couple days, their T shirt, and it smelled like them. So then they would put the T shirt. I don't know, 100 guys, they put the T shirt in these different. Everyone had a shoe box and they put.
- [46:44]
B
I just want to raise my hand and say a couple days, like, foul. Like that. That's
- [46:49]
A
maybe a day. But they put their T shirt in the shoebox with holes. And then they bring in all these women, and they had the women smell the shoe boxes and rate the attractiveness of the guy based off of smelling their T shirt through a shoebox.
- [47:03]
B
Yeah.
- [47:04]
A
And what they found was that they all rated different. So it wasn't like everyone was like, that one shoebox. That's the. That's the guy. For me, they were all different in. What they found was that their DNA was, like, the best matches for them not to have kids that were a mess. Like. Like they were the best DNA match. And so there's a physicality here. And. And he said, this is why you're not attracted to your siblings. Part of it has to do with smell. So dating apps are taking away. And obviously a lot of people find their person on a Dating app. Yeah, but it is taking away the, that the human sensory element to it. And then there's just a lot of tricky things. I talked to a guy who was like, they don't even pay attention to what you say you want because it doesn't work. And they're trying to like keep people on the app and like get matches. So they override, they override what you've said. And then in your book, outdated, you said this. On dating apps, only a small percentage of the users get a majority of the attention. So it's like the. Who's the 10% most beautiful people? They're getting all the attention and everyone else is getting nothing. And you say beauty is a depreciating asset. We are all getting uglier. So what would be talking about? It's, I mean it is true. You also said when was the last time that you were physically attracted to a 70 year old? That, that and it's, I mean it is true. Do. But you say we get smarter, we can get kinder, you know, we can get more interesting. But, but you are not going to become young, younger and prettier. So beauty is a depreciating asset. So what would be something better?
- [48:48]
B
Yeah, like, so I've asked arenas of people like, hey, you know, I'll say we're all getting uglier. Everyone's offended. I'm like, hey, when's the last time you're attracted to an 80 year old by the grace of God, hopefully you're going to be married to an 80 year old one day. Like should you live that long? Like you're going to be 80, they're going to be 80. Lady, you're still going to be attracted to the, you know, the 24 year old, the 25 year old, the 26 year old. So it's like what, what changed? And I think some of it is that God's design that, that we talked about earlier. But I would say, okay, let's go slow through that. So dating apps, the problem with dating apps is. Yeah, the 10 phenomenon. It's kind of like the 9010 rule. 10 of people are getting 90 of the attention and profiles lie. And you know, I just don't think you should go on a date with a stranger. Like you just don't know about them. Like I'm, I don't think we should go, you know, we should date, you know, get into a relationship until we don't like them anymore, get out and then get into another relationship that's going to divorce 101 that is going to a university for divorce. Like, that's why we're seeing divorce as common as it is. Like you can just drive down the, the, the, the freeway and see, you know, billboards for, you know, call 1800, 123 divorce or whatever it is.
- [50:01]
A
Yeah.
- [50:02]
B
And so there's got to be something else. It is my worldview that if you take a guy and you take a girl, you take a man and take a woman and they're surrendered to God. Like they, they could figure out a way to make that work. Like if there, there's never in the history of the world been a divorce between two, two committed followers of Christ. Like, that's my world view. Like, that's what I believe. Never in the history of the world. Like, the divorce rate's zero between where both people are seeking to honor God. Like it's never happened. And so like, that tells me way I want to prioritize that then big time. So as we develop this service, it's, it's not a dating app, because dating apps are, are motivated, financially motivated to keep you single. Like, if you get married, your interests are not aligned. If you get married, they stop getting paid. So it's a matchmaking service. We basically, they, these guys, they take everything into consideration to try to find you a match that you can spend the rest of your life with. And that's, that's how they're incentivized and they're financially rewarded by finding you that person. And so it's. QualifiedDate.com is the, the working domain right now. But that's, that's, that's where like a lot of my time and attention and, and outside of my, my primary job is gone. Is just trying to, to consult with this to get it to a place where, you know, these, these guys can help people find someone they can spend the rest of their life with. But yeah, I think the way that we date right now is really broken now on the scent thing, I've got nothing to offer that conversation. I don't know how that would have worked in, like, in, in history, you know, but I'm, I'm sure there is some science to that. But like, again, for the most of, for the majority of history, it was arranged marriages. I think expectations play a lot into this conversation. And the, the science is the more that we have, the more options that we have, the less likely we are to choose one. And I think that's a big reason why and that, that's scientifically proven. There was this study with jams, where they, like, put out four jams, and. And people were quick to make a decision, but then they. So then they put out 12. Different. Different. When I say jams, I mean, like, jellies. At the store, they put out 12, and then jam sales plummeted because they said people had so many options. They didn't. They didn't decide to buy one. And I think that's happening with. With dating sites and just the. The invention of social media. And we're no longer, you know, choosing someone within five miles of where we were born. We're choosing someone out of 8 billion people.
- [52:34]
A
Yeah, I talked to someone who said that once. They were like, it's really tricky because you go out with someone and, like, they eat their peas weird. And I can just pick somebody else. So. Yeah, you know, it just makes it. I. I feel that way. Even with buying stuff, like the jam thing, I get overwhelmed, and then I just do nothing. Wow. Okay. So then you also talk about what to do when you're single. Make the most of being single. Recover from your past hurts. Start doing things now that will make you a better spouse in the future. And you wrote and outdated. I'm not sad that I'm no longer single, but I am kind of sad that I didn't use my single date days more effectively. I want to hit two more. I hope we have time. Two more topics. Okay, here's one topic. Adult friendships. So adult friendships are hard. You talk about you grew up with the pearly whites, you were mooning the neighbors, or I don't. Like, with your friends in the neighborhood. You know, so when you're a kid, it's just kind of like, whoever you're around, well, you become an adult. There's a lot more layers there. Do the kids get along? Do the spouses get along? So one of the things that you talk about is. Is. Is how to resolve conflict. You wrote, actually, inability to resolve conflict is one of life's most valuable skills. Can you talk about. I think it's pronounced schlitterbon.
- [53:41]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [53:43]
A
And how you lost a friend there. So.
- [53:44]
B
Yeah. So here's the deal. Like, I'm in. I'm in the. I'm in the relationship business, if you will. Like, I, you know, I'm. I lead and serve a church, and churches are notorious for gossip. And, you know, gossips break relationships. And what we do in the church world is when someone offends us is we ask people to pray about it, you know, and we. And we vent and we talk to Others. But what the. The scripture, again, biblical worldview. The scripture calls us to talk to someone. So the second that we feel an offense, we're offended that we don't go to anybody else but the one single person who can do something about it. Because somebody, even including our spouse, telling us, hey, we shouldn't be offended is not helpful. You know, it's like, if we. But if I go to that person, I say, you hurt me when you. Now we can get somewhere. Now they may say, hey, you shouldn't be hurt. I don't know. You know, whatever. Get over it. You're too sensitive. Well, then the. Then I have a process. I can take somebody else with me and say, hey, can you kind of help us mediate this? And then if they listen, you won them over. But if they don't, I can. I can take. I can then bring in, like, a pastor or professional to help us navigate this. So that's the clear process. That's Matthew 18, 15, 17. That's literally a couple thousand years old. Guiding us into how to handle conflict. Well, for me, it's like, I. You know, the way I handled conflict was with my fist. I was a dysfunctional kid. Kid. And so when a. When a buddy invited me to Schlitter Blond, it's the largest water park in the world in Texas, and I, you know, I. He said he kind of got to the day, like, didn't have money for his ticket. I was like, man, I got you. Like, I paid. I paid for his ticket. Well, then when we were there, he went into the gift shop, and by the way, I'm like, 16, so this wasn't yesterday. I'm like, 16 years old. He goes into the gift shop and he buys a shark tooth necklace. And it happened to be even more than the ticket to get in. I was like, dude, I thought you didn't have money to get in. And he was like, oh, well, I didn't. But, you know, you paid my way in. So I had money for this necklace, and I was. I was offended by that, so I pushed him, you know, and that's just like, what you did at 16 is you. The way you resolve conflict is you just, you know, physical. Well, when I pushed him, he felt deeply assaulted and was like, we're done. And he meant it like. Like, this friendship is over. And I realized, like, there were so many relationships in my life that my temper and anger and my inability to resolve conflict in a healthy way had ended well. Well, once you're trained on resolving conflict, you're like that guy, the one guy in the movie where when somebody yells, bomb, bomb, there's a bomb and everybody runs away from it. You know, the one person, like the movie pans, the music starts and there's one person in SWAT gear walking toward the bomb, bomb because he's, he's trained in, in disarming the bomb. Well, when you, when you are trained in conflict, there's dysfunctional people that you're going to come and into contact with, but you are trained in disarming the conflict. You, you, you can go into situations. And now I've mediated, you know, millions of dollar deals. I've mediated, you know, divorces when people have filed for divorce. I've mediated prodigal kids who hate their parents and never want to talk to them again because I've been trained in how to deal with this, you know, and in my own marriage, like, my own marriage was dysfunctional. And we get this training and now we can communicate and like, I have one of the best marriages of anyone I know. But it's, but we're very different people. I mean, like, like, like, I mean, I'm six, seven. She's five, two. I, I love, you know, motorcycles and guns. She loves babies and, and the elderly. You know, it's just like we have very different interests. We're opposites in every way. I love to go, go, go, go. She, she never wants to leave the house. And yet we've learned to have an amazing marriage because we've learned to resolve conflict. And so I think we have to talk to people, not about people, and, and really exercise this skill, skill and get better at it.
- [58:01]
A
This is just incredible advice. It's, and it's, it's really for anybody, but especially as you're entering into the adulthood years and like you said, and we talked about the very beginning, school doesn't tend to address a lot of the things that we've talked about. They don't prepare anyone for life's biggest challenges. And so these are the things that you want to learn about. So the book welcome to Adulting Navigating Faith, Friendship, Finances in the Future. You talk about anxiety in there too. We don't have time to talk about it today, but you say worrying is really a form of idol worship. And then there's a great rat story about rats, so you want to check that out. So anxiety is covered in this too, and then outdated. Find love that lasts when dating has changed. And then earlier this year was. Your story has a villain. This has been fantastic. JP we always end Our, our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [58:49]
B
Favorite memory from my childhood. Outside. Immediately as soon as you asked task. I had a rope swing and it was. We had really tall oak trees and there was this one oak tree in my parents backyard that I would just climb all the time and, and it had this very high limb. And then one day, you know, we had. My dad was a cattle rancher and we had gone to the feed store and they had ropes you could buy, you could buy a rope there at the feed store. And he bought this rope rope and, and he threw it around that limb and then he put a, a weight like a, you know, like a. Like a plate. You know like a plate that you lift weights on. You know, like a plate you lift. I don't know how to say that, but like a weight, like a. It was like a 25 pound weight and that was a disc. And I would. That.
- [59:41]
A
That's what you sat on?
- [59:42]
B
Yeah, that's what you sat on. And that rope swing. I mean that like $15 investment was the greatest gift because I would just run as hard as I could and jump and hold onto it and then just swing around for hours and hours and hours and hours. And so when we, when we moved, we built a house in Dallas and. And I remember when the kids were younger, like that was the first thing I did. We had this big oak tree in the front yard and I threw a rope around the limb. We went to the, you know, the Ace Hardware, the hardware store. I bought a rope. I had found the little disc. This one was just made of wood. Threw the rope around the limb and they would spend hours and the whole, the whole neighborhood would come and so if you've got young kids, get a rope swing.
- [60:27]
A
I love it. Jp, thanks so much for being here.
- [60:29]
B
Hey, thanks for having me friend.