← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 813: Joy Grows in the Valley | Tim Timmons, Waking Up Again
00:53:56
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- [00:01]
A
Summer gets busy fast. One minute you're easing into warmer weather, and the next, you're juggling sports schedules, swim days, camping trips, road trips, late nights around the fire, and trying to keep the house from completely falling apart in the middle of all of it. And if you're a cat family, too, there's still the everyday stuff waiting for you at home, including the litter box. That's why Whiskers Litter Robot is such a game changer. During busy seasons, it automatically cycles after every use, so you're not constantly scooping or dealing with litter cleanup every single day. It just handles the dirty work for you. And the Whisker app notifies you about your unit. Like when a clean cycle is complete, when drawer levels are getting full, or if the unit needs attention. You can always track things like your cat's weight and bathroom usage over time, which makes it easy to stay aware of changes without having to constantly check in. Honestly, during a packed summer, having one last daily chore to think about makes a huge difference. Maintain your cat's litter while focusing on your growing family. Learn more about Whisker litter robot models and starter kits today to get set up before the summer craziness arrives. Take an additional $50 off bundles with code 1000 when you shop whisker.com 1000hours. That's an additional $50 off bundles with Code 1000hours@whisker.com 1000hours. Welcome to the 1000hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside, and I'm here with a friend of a friend. A friend of friends. I. I love it. I love it when life connects like that and you're like, we're connected in a lot of ways. Tim Timmons, welcome.
- [01:24]
B
Friends of friends will let you know. I'm just trying to think about.
- [01:29]
A
That could be a song.
- [01:30]
B
Yeah, I'm just. Just, you know, throwing spaghetti. Yeah, I just. I. I said yes to this podcast just so we could talk about our mutual friends and make fun of them. So that was kind of. That's okay.
- [01:41]
A
Is there where we should kick it off? We're kicking it off with Dustin.
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B
Yeah, Dustin. He just texted me. He's like, have fun with Jenny. I'm like, well, dude, you might not want to listen.
- [01:51]
A
Okay, so this is like the whole amazing world of Christian music.
- [01:56]
B
Yeah, I've got. I've got nothing bad to say about Dustin. Dustin is a legend of his. He's in a band called the Sanctus Real Everybody. And, yeah, I just. I love him and his wife, they're just really beautiful, beautiful humans. So I, you know, don't tell him I said that. But I really, I love them so much.
- [02:15]
A
They really are beautiful humans. They're like as real as it gets. And we actually went on tour with them. We did a little comedy tour. So they have a do. They're so talented as husband and wife.
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B
It's like nuts.
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A
Talented.
- [02:28]
B
Whatever, whatever.
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A
It's like annoying. It's annoying. Sarah's like super good at interior design. I'm like, come on.
- [02:36]
B
Yeah. You know what they are? They're ugly and mean. So we're just gonna say that out loud. So get over yourself. Yes.
- [02:44]
A
All right, talk to us. You know what? One of the cool things I think about this is something with Bart and with lollies is you start to see, like, as everyone's kids get older that they, they have some opportunities because of the long haul journey of the parents. So I saw you in person. We saw you perform. It was Sanctus Real with Dustin. And then stars go dim.
- [03:10]
B
Yeah.
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A
And then you. And it was an Adrian, Michigan, and the Lally's oldest son was helping set up.
- [03:16]
B
Yeah.
- [03:17]
A
You know, so it's providing work for him and connections. But that's like a long haul thing. And that's your story too. I mean, you've been at this for a while.
- [03:26]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm 26, which is strange years old, but I've been at it quite a few years. Yeah. And I, I started out as a worship leader of churches in California. So I, I always wanted to be, I actually wanted to be in the mainstream, have a mainstream career. And I really wanted to point people to truth and let Jesus. If Jesus does what he's supposed to do, then he's the one who brings people to himself. And I was like, cool. I don't have to do all the other stuff. I just get to like talk about truth and talk about things like that and Jesus. You'll do cool things. I don't even want to talk to Christians. I felt like Christians were just talking to themselves anyways. And so it was like, let's just get outside of these walls. And. Yeah. Jesus had other thoughts for me.
- [04:16]
A
Yeah. And what, what a journey you've had. I. I'm sure that you don't love talking about this, but I'm gonna bring it up anyway.
- [04:24]
B
Great. Great. My looks.
- [04:26]
A
Okay. I. So you. It happens sometimes in churches and large churches and small churches and medium churches where the pastor. Something happens, you know, so there's an affair or an addiction or something, and they sort of fall from grace, you know, they lose their position. And it's shocking and sad. I think it, it's destabilizing. But you don't necessarily think about it a ton from the child's point of view. Like, what was that life like for the child of that person? And so you've got this dad who is like at the top of his career pastoral wise, right. He's like on the radio, he's writing books. They're best sellers. You're traveling or he's traveling, you're probably traveling with him sometimes to speak. And. And it ended. The marriage ended, the pastor job ended. And that's like sends you totally floundering. Can you talk about that experience from the perspective because you were the kid in that experience.
- [05:31]
B
Yeah, gosh, that was, you know, we were, we. We're. I'm from Newport Beach, California, so from being this, the kid of this kind of mogul in my world and apparently all over the place, I mean, you know, remember Bill Hybels, the pastor of a big church in Chicago, said my dad was the best communicator in America. You know, just like these affirmations of my dad. And so I just sat there going, man, this is so great. Life is amazing. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, my folks, when I was going into my freshman year of high school school, we set us up on the couches in our living room. I thought we were getting a puppy. And that's when they said you guys were getting separated. We're getting divorced. And my dad had done some stuff. It was just this, just a mess. And that was my first sorrow. And I talk about that in the book as my first sorrow. And yeah, I mean, I, I hate that that stuff happens. It's not what the original design was. It was. This is not how it was supposed to go. The flourishing of my family was supposed to be how that was supposed to go. So that sucked. And I'm not a fan of that whole experience at all. And also, it's not like, you know what, but God's good. It's like that really sucked. That was really, really difficult. And so, so many things that whoever's listening right now are watching you've gone through in your own story. That was my first sorrow. You first sorrows were. Or what your sorrow is today. And there's this word there in between that. I think we say, life is hard, but God's good. And I'm like, man, I Feel like we're wallpapering over a whole bout of grief and pain. And for us to be able to say, life is freaking hard and God is at work in all things. And I look at who I am, even because of that sorrow. And I am not a fan of divorce. I'm not a fan of what happened in my family in any way, shape, or form. And also, God woke me up again today and brought me through that. And so as far as today is concerned, I'm a different man because of that pain. And I think joy grows in the valley. So it was really rough. And God also has worked things in beautiful ways.
- [08:01]
A
Yeah. Okay. I haven't even said that you wrote a book, but people probably already know. It's called Waking Up Again. Plus, you are a movie star, but somebody else acted you, but you are also a movie star. The book is called Waking Up Again, A Journey of Grief and Gratitude. So you talk about this in the book that your dad had written, multiple bestsellers on marriage. And then. Then you lose. Not only. I think that's the difference with a pastoral family, is that you go to work with your dad. And so this is the situation where not only do you lose the. The stability of family, but you also lose that church home, which is usually what happens. So you say. Never did I imagine this family meeting would be our last. Out of what seemed like a literal blue sky, my parents announced their separation, which would eventually become permanent. And then you talk about how it's like a riches to rags story, like everything changes. But one thing that comes up throughout your entire story is the power of community. It's people. It's God's people. So there's a man named Doug Fields. I'd love to talk about Doug Fields. And also about your buddies. You got these childhood buddies that go to the church and. And you feel like they could have maybe just dropped you. This is like Kale. Someone named Horse, they stepped in. So can you talk about the part of community where you say, these men change the trajectory of my life? They made my grief a whole lot crushing, a whole lot less crushing than it could have been. I feel like there's always people behind the famous people.
- [09:29]
B
Yes, yes. And Amen. That. That chapter is called Amers. I think that chapter is called Amers. And I think it's. At some point people were asking me to, like, mentor them. And I was as. I wanted mentors in my life. And one of my mentors, his name is Stan Endicott, he would say, he mentioned, just in passing, one Time that he's like, he wants to be more of an aimer and like, that I wouldn't be made like Stan, but I would be made into who God created me to be. That Stan would aim me in a way that would help me be the man that God has created me to be and do the things that God has created me to do. And I love that concept so much that I look back on my life and I think about all the different people that have aimed me, whether that was just a one time. Like, I was. I was. I spoke last night in Alabama. I just got home a little bit ago and thinking about just a few. Like I was with students and thinking about the few students that I got to talk to that I got to aim. Aim just even briefly for those little moments. I got to aim them toward Jesus and toward who I think God would invite them to be. And then I think of these guys like Doug Phillips, who's. If you don't know who Douglas is, he's kind of a youth pastor guru, and also one of the funniest people I know and shaped me and has just really been like an aimer and a friend, Even though he's 20 years older than I am. And these people, they saw me in these dark places, not dark places, but just like down places, and somehow just were like, you know what? I'm going to invest in this person. I'm a different man because of it. Like, there's no way I would be doing what I do without the stands in my life. The Doug Fields, the. I name a bunch of different aimers in that. In that book. Bob Goff. There's a guy named Bob Goff who's. He wrote a book called Love does. And he is one of my greatest heroes in life and one of my great, great friends. He just calls me today on my way home. I was driving home from Alabama. He just calls me. It's like, hey, dude, what's up? And just like, asking me stuff about my life. And I'm like, you're this, like, big time dude. Why would you care about this dorky bald guy? It's not to get anything out of me. It's just because they're just seeing themselves as being the blessing for the world around them. And I think that is such a gift. And so I think the invitation for us is, who then do each of us. Who do we get to aim and aim doesn't mean, like, tell what we think. It's like, how do we love people and be the blessers of People. So all the guys and women, men and women who have aimed me and my best friends who I feel like mutually aim me. Yeah, we're kind of mutual aimers. I go on walks every morning, most mornings with different guys in my community here in Nashville. And I just call that, like, mutual. Some would call it mutual discipleship. I just call it mutual aiming. Like, I don't know, man. Here are a few things I'm struggling with or that's going on. What do you think? Let's just be curious together. And I think I'm a better man because of all those people in all those conversations. So in a sense, how are we those people to other people?
- [13:02]
A
And it's all the way through the book you talked about. So you just brought up Doug Fields. When I was a heartbroken freshman kid whose parents had just separated, Doug invited me on one of his speaking trips. He spent time with me. And that is truly, like. I mean, sometimes people, they try and rub shoulders with the who's who, you know, the pastor's kid, the pastor's family. But this is, like, after the fallout. So these are people that have nothing to gain. He spent time with me, asked me questions, and loved me with humor and wit. He showed me how to genuinely be interested in people, both on and off stage. When my life unraveled, I learned what I wanted in marriage by watching his. You talk about your old friends. You can't make old friends. This group of friends you have. And I love the part about walking. Oh, my gosh. So we're trying to get outside, and you have a practice of walking. It's four miles.
- [13:51]
B
Yeah. Yeah, I know. And when I tell these guys that we're gonna. Or. Yeah, it's just mainly guys. I think I've walked with one girl. It's always. I'm like, well, maybe I won't do that, but.
- [14:02]
A
Awkward.
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B
Yeah, you know, it's like, maybe that's a little too intimate. So we. We just go on walks. And I'm like, hey, you walk. And they're like, yeah. And then they get here, and they're in the, like, they're hot, like, outfits, ready to go on tour or something like that. I'm like, wow, dude, this walk's gonna suck for you because you're. We're doing this. So it's really. It's fun to kind of catch people off guard. And in there, Doc Martens will walk four miles.
- [14:28]
A
But you say. I mean, this writing. I love this. You say, it's like an old 1800s homestead. Stunning you're actually like, maybe not supposed to be walking through that one particular part, but. But you go through and it's just like an absolute beautiful path. And then you get to know different people. So like how people have poured into you, you're doing the same for other people. Yeah, your outdoor space should feel like you. And for the longest time, ours just didn't. We had those random plastic chairs that somehow followed us from house to house, a patio that felt more like a pass through than a place to gather, and a grill that we kept saying we'd replace someday. It just wasn't a space we were excited to use. And then I found Wayfair and everything kind of clicked and we added simple, comfortable seating, an outdoor rug that grounded the space, and a few pieces that actually matched the look I had in my head. Now it feels like an extension of our home. We eat outside more, the kids linger longer, and it's just easier to be out there. What I love is how simple Wayfair makes the process. You can filter by size, style, budget, read real reviews from real homes, and with Wayfair Verified, you know you're choosing from items that have already been vetted for quality, and having everything in one place from seating to lighting to decor made it feel manageable instead of overwhelming. Get prep for patio season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home Lately I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day and being drawn into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable and still put together. It makes getting dressed so much simpler. And honestly, Quince has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are flattering, and everything just works without overthinking it. Quince makes it really easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100, 100 European linen, organic cotton, and ultra soft denim, so everything feels high quality right from the start. They're lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30 and they're breathable, easy to wear, and perfect for repeating throughout the week without getting tired of them. And I have to say, the everyday fleece joggers have been such a win for me, especially on those cooler spring mornings. They're soft, they fit really well, and they still look put together enough to wear out of the house, which I love. Everything at Quince is priced for 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside this time of year in homeschooling is really special. You're wrapping up projects, looking at how far your kids have come and helping them finish strong. It's also a great moment to reinforce key skills and build confidence as you head into summer. And as routines start to shift with travel camps and more time outside, it helps to have something that keeps learning steady without over complicating your days. That's where IXL can be such a helpful tool. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that fits seamlessly into homeschooling. It offers interactive practice across math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out is the real time feedback and progress tracking. Kids get immediate explanations as they go and you can clearly see growth over time, what's clicking and where. A little reinforcement can go a long way. It's a simple way to finish the year strong and keep simple skills fresh heading into the summer. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Part of your story also is that you have cancer and you were diagnosed young, in your 20s. You say you were having hot flashes and there's no such thing as manopause, which was a good line.
- [18:29]
B
So, so stupid. So stupid.
- [18:31]
A
It was a good line. Yeah, I thought it was clever, Tim. There's no manopause and so they go, something's wrong. There's probably something wrong with my thyroid. And you're, you know, you're in your mid-20s and there's a doctor that says, look, you only got a couple years to live. And that has turned out not to be true. You did talk about, you know, you make a lot of lifestyle change. Like you eat things that have no flavor.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we sure did For a season.
- [18:57]
A
But you turn from a person to a patient. So you had a hard go. Yeah, a hard go. Can you talk about the fact that you decided to still have kids?
- [19:09]
B
Yes. Jenny, you're so awesome. You're so good at this and you're so curious with people and that makes all the difference. So honored to be on here and I just am enjoying my time with you. You said something about. I forget what you just asked. Tell me about your.
- [19:29]
A
Well, about choosing to have kids.
- [19:32]
B
Oh, yeah.
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A
When someone gives you a death. A death sentence, basically. Now this has turned out, you've lived way longer. It's not, it's not been, you know, easy sailing. You've had a ton of pain, all these bowel instructions. So it's like it's been some easy thing. But you still decided to have kids even though the future was uncertain.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah, they gave me five years to live 25 years ago. You know, there's still tumors on my liver today, wearing out my heart, all that stuff. And in that I remember so Hillary and I had just been married three years and it was like, babe, I totally get if you don't want to have kids. Like this would be, this would be a pretty rough thing to bring kids into that intentionally bring kids into this thing. If I'm potentially going to be gone in five years, I don't know how we want to do that. And she's like, we're going to live as though you're going to be healed. Which was a pretty crazy statement. But which also led to. Then a year later, I'm not healed. I'm about to have this ginormous surgery. Tumors are still growing. And she had like probably a few year wrestling match with God. Full on wrestling match. Like, you're, you've screwed me here. Like, this is like, I thought, I thought the whole thing was like based on, you know, what if we have enough faith this is all going to work out.
- [20:59]
A
Yeah.
- [21:00]
B
And you say blah, blah, blah, blah in our, you know, American English. This is how we read these things because we just read it the Bible so flat. So at some point she's like, okay, this, this thing that I've been trusting in, I don't know if it works. And so she had this full on wrestling match, which I think is brilliant and beautiful and so important for us to be okay with wrestling matches. And almost, you know, people give. Give deconstruction a bad rap, I think, and I love the word term detangling. I think that's maybe even a more beautiful term that we're detangling our faith. We have to. Like, there's things we're. We learned as young kids. Even if you're not in faith, there are still things that you are detangling as an adult or whatever. Whatever age you are. We're still going. Okay. But there are certain things. I remember that. I wonder if that's not the whole story. And so we had to really work through that. And then. Yeah. We were nine years into marriage, and we got pregnant, and then we've had four kids all together.
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A
Four kids. Set of twins.
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B
Yep.
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A
I. So Hillary writes in the book, too.
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B
Yes.
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A
Which is a very cool way to do a book. The book is called Waking Up Again. And one of the things. This is like one of my favorite parts. It was so beautiful. She said, people have said things like, well, what if you would have lost him? And she said, we are very aware that we cannot speak to the things beyond the scope of our own grief. That is only the right of those who have borne greater sorrow than us. But we can say is. Is that God has been faithful and gentle in how he walked with us in our darkest hours. And so you can just trust. You trust that no matter what comes, God will be faithful and gentle to walk with you in your darkest hours. This is going to be so random. This is going to be so random. The stupidest transition ever. But. And, okay, so this has maybe never come up in an interview. Maybe it has. I talked to this woman named Megan Cox who wrote a book called the Enchanted Hour, and it's all about read aloud. And one of the things that she talked about was that one of the best places to read aloud is in the hospital. Because she said, you're there, and you're like, that's scary. You know, there's like this dark cloud. All you want to talk about is your diagnosis. Like, you don't know what's going to happen next. And she's like, it's a great place to read aloud to your partner, to your person, to your kid, to your dad, to your wife, to your spouse, whatever. So she did that. She read you the Lord of the Rings trilogy while you were in the hospital bed. Yeah. At home there, you know.
- [23:36]
B
Yeah.
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A
And she's really good at it.
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B
Yeah. We read Narnia. Narnia. We read Lord of the Rings. Yeah. It was. It was like, what was. Yeah. And those books shaped my view of God as well. And especially even in those places, when you're sitting there with, like, you know, your body is, like, halfway open and being, you know, and you're like, okay, Aslan, what if. What if he's real? What if, you know, I mean, just all the things. I mean, just. Anyways. Yeah. So profound. So I'm a big fan of being read, too. Even my book, I've asked couples to, like, read it to each other because I think it's. It's really profound because I'm. I'm a bigger fan of. Of practical than just content. And I think we're all kind of like. I think Americans were obese on our content. Like, we have so much content. We know what the Greek word for spetzer valve is. I mean, we just know all these things, but we. But putting it into practice is just not a thing that we do well. We know stuff, but we don't put it into practice. So what I'm always telling people with my book, couples especially, is like, hey, just read to each other. Because there's some really, like, practical ways to jump through this stuff. So I'm a big fan of reading to each other. That's. It's been brilliant for my wife.
- [24:56]
A
I. I loved that it was in your book. I've never heard of anybody who's done that. But I just read this other book by this lady, and I thought, oh, it's like the most brilliant thing. And then you were like, hillary should be reading the audiobook. She does all the voices.
- [25:09]
B
We're doing it tomorrow. We're starting it tomorrow, actually, which is we're going to read it together and kind of make it a little podcasty. But she'll read it. She's a great reader. And then I'll make just dumb comments, you know, or whatever.
- [25:21]
A
Are you gonna put it on your podcast?
- [25:23]
B
No, it'll be like an audiobook, but audiobook format. But it'll be a little bit podcasty, is the hope.
- [25:31]
A
Okay. That's super exciting. That's a fun.
- [25:33]
B
Yeah, that kind of fun. Like a different. Different wave. So it's not just the book. It'll be the book, but there'll be some little comments here and there, commentary. We'll make it kind of fun. So.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [25:42]
B
Or dumb. Or totally dumb.
- [25:45]
A
Wait and see. See what people say once it comes out.
- [25:48]
B
Yes.
- [25:49]
A
Okay. So you decide to have children. You decide to have children. Four kids. Can you talk then about the part where, how do you tell them? What do you tell them? And that kind of tricky part of navigating that.
- [26:02]
B
Yeah, yeah. That was a really wild season. We. Everybody that we knew at that point, our kids were Kind of a little older. And, you know, it's hard to tell your kids when they're like babies, like, hey, Daddy's got cancer and could die at any point. Just like a weird thing to tell your kids. Yeah. And they're getting old enough to start, like, which their friends were praying for me, you know, and they'd come up and their kids would say, hi, Mr. Tim. You know, I'm praying for you. It's like, oh, that's so great, but you're in my daughter's class. She doesn't even know that I have cancer. And so we just didn't know how to say anything to them. Everybody that we had known that had the C word was, you know, dead, because they had all. It was just like, this is weird. How are books written on. Here's how you tell your kids about your cancer diagnosis, you know?
- [26:47]
A
Right.
- [26:48]
B
Maybe there are. I just hadn't read him. And so there's a really beautiful way in the book that we kind of. Like, I come to this place of saying two things. One, I had. There's a guy named George Barna that went through this whole con. Oh, gosh, that's so not helpful. I don't even have, like, a fast way to talk about this.
- [27:12]
A
You don't need a guest, Right?
- [27:14]
B
Yeah. So basically, this guy named George Barna who does a bunch of whole. He pulls. Christian
- [27:24]
A
guy.
- [27:24]
B
Yeah. Stats guy. Like, how. How they see things or whatever. I don't know. And he did this one study on people that were actually fully formed into Jesus, following Jesus, looking like people like that, they were. Their hearts were actually transformed into the way of Jesus. Like, it's just a really fascinating study. And through it, the only way to actually get to that point. What I'm trying to say is through pain. That it's. It's saying, you know what? At some point, my kingdom or your queendom. My queendom is not worth building. And I'm gonna have to go through pain and grief and sorrow. And it's maybe the only way to actually know the real Jesus. And I just started bawling when I learned that, because I was like, okay, maybe for my kids, the only way that they will know the real Jesus is through my life or through my death. And they're gonna. I mean, sorrow. I can't protect them from every sorrow. And actually, it's probably not the best gift for them to be protected from every sorrow. And parents, that's all we want to do is protect them from sorrow, you know, which. Which is a great Noble thing. It's not bad, but. And sorrow could be the greatest gift for all of us. It has been for me. Right? So then when we told them, we were also in this mindset of, how about we don't open any doors for God anymore? We don't, like, try to open things and push open doors. Because that was for us, even for evangelism, we're like, well, why don't we not evangelize anymore? Like, try to go do this stuff. Why don't we let Jesus open doors where he knows he wants to talk to people? And we said, how about we just try asking Jesus? We'll be dumb enough to try it. Ask Jesus to open a door for us to have a conversation with our kids about this cancer stuff. Jesus, would you open that door so it's not us barging it through and making it awkward? And sure enough, we were praying for that for, I don't know, a month straight. And Malia then asked me a question about my surgery or about my scar. And it was just this beautiful experience experiment that in the end just reminded us, okay, cool, like, what if God's actually real? And we get to say, hey, would you open a door for this conversation?
- [29:40]
A
So, yeah, Hillary said, we are going to live while you are alive. And then you say, what if we could trust God's heart for them? Well, you talked about. I love the parts where you talk about trusting God in the areas where we could do nothing. So you say, you know, you get this diagnosis and you're like, okay, we're going to cut out sugar, and we're going to basically things that taste like cardboard. And people are going to come up to you and say, if you boil some horse hair and mix it with leather, you know, you make some changes. You do. But then you also say, we decide to trust God in the areas where we could do nothing. It's easy to rely on him when life is going well. And that reminded me of this song, that one. So I got to talk to Bart Millard, and he was talking about that song. I can only imagine. Yeah, I was like, so huge when I was growing up. Yeah. And still is. I mean, I just remember I was like, this is quite the song. And that Amy Grant gave it back to him.
- [30:35]
B
Yeah.
- [30:35]
A
Look, I have so many notes here, Tim.
- [30:36]
B
I'm just like, no, this is so beautiful. I'm like, I want to read your note.
- [30:41]
A
Where can I even find it? So you had a similar story with the Even if song. Is that right? Like, there was a crystal and she didn't use it. And so what you said was, I didn't. I just thought this was such a big statement. And gosh, I'm like, it challenged me. I didn't have to push my way into anything or manipulate circumstances to get my way for the sake of the kingdom. That's a life changing realization completely. And it's the same with your cancer diagnosis too. You basically have gotten to a point where you're like, the things that I can control, I'll. I'll control. But the rest of it, I'm just going to let it be.
- [31:20]
B
Yeah. I got to a place I was so words tired. I just was too tired. I'm like, I've worked for God for so dang long. Yeah, I've tried to open doors for him. I've tried to do all these cool things for him. Like, for him. Like, God, if you would open these doors, we could do cool stuff. Like, I'm like, here, I'm ready. Like, open the freaking doors. I'll do it. And doors just wouldn't open. And it was like, I'm exhausted trying to do good things for you.
- [31:55]
A
Yeah.
- [31:55]
B
What? What, What? You've kept me alive another day. So what? Do something cool with me. And at some point I just got so frustrated. And I remember it's partly why I write this X on my wrist, which we can talk more about. But I remember just saying, I'm so done. I'm so done with working for you, God. I'm so done with like telling you what is best for your kingdom. And I was like, I'm done. I'm done telling you this stuff. How about if you're real? And I think it's really important thing to actually dive into the question, like, what if God's actually real? Yeah, like not just like Christian real. Or, you know, we go to church and we sing these songs. Who cares? But like, what if he's actually freaking real? And what could happen if he's actually real, not just religious real. And so I just started asking these questions, going, okay, what if that's true? Then maybe he says, seek first the kingdom of God. Not your kingdom, Tim. Like not your queendom, Jenny. But seek first the kingdom of God. As if the king of the kingdom knows what's best for his kingdom and this bald guy does not. And I keep telling him, you know, here, this would be best, FYI, God, just so you know, and everything was kind of contingent upon that. Like, even my joy was contingent upon how much he was using me. And man, is that backwards. And so I think just at some point I said I'm done. So I quit working for God. And so I'll never work for you again. I will just join you for the rest of my days. If you're real, I will just join you. And if you want to open cool doors, you go right ahead. If I'm just supposed to work at Starbucks, I'll work at Starbucks and that's what I'll do. Or if you want to put my music into the world, you go right ahead. If it's best for your kingdom and not building up my little kingdom, then open it and I will walk through those doors. And so my favorite part of all this stuff, movie, song, Grammy, you know, Grammys nominations, all this stuff.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah.
- [34:00]
B
Is that I quit working for God and at some point I get to just like rest. Like if I'm yoked to him. Like it's an actual yoke situation where I'm attached to him and I just kind of go where he goes. Like he's showing me cool stuff. But what I've always wanted to do, my life is like, oh, but God, over here's, you know, it's just heavy. So I think the gift of that has been given to me even through cancer, that I can't change this. I can do my best. I work out every day, I try to eat well and give my body the best shape job it can or whatever. But God, I'm yours. So yeah.
- [34:42]
A
Yeah. I have this friend, her name is Danielle and she is a chef. She was on Next level chef. She's a mom, she's a chef. She's got a cool story of sort of like rise and fall and business that fall apart and marriage almost fall apart. And she loves the Lord and she has this prayer that she wrote in her memoir that said, God, close every door we aren't meant to walk through. Fling open, you know, any door. All the doors that no man could open, you know, that we're supposed to walk through. I'm botching it. It's. She says it better than the book. I protect my kids and family. And I was like, oh, I love that prayer. I love it. I've got it written on a little note card by my bed, so I should have it memorized better. Can I just say there was a time when I felt like the family calendar was living in six different places. Some things were in my phone, some things were in Josh's head, some things were written down. Somewh. And a lot of it was just missed. And that constant feeling of what am I forgetting? Is exhausting. That is why I love the Skylight Calendar. It brings everything together in one place. Appointments, activities, even grocery lists. And it syncs seamlessly with Google, Apple, Outlook, all of it. So wherever something gets added, it shows up. But the feature that really surprised me is a tasks section for kids. It turns everyday responsibilities like chores or getting ready for the day into something visual and trackable. It helps build independence without me having to constantly remind everyone. And because each person has their own color, there is no confusion. No more. I didn't know. It's all right there. Skylight Calendar is designed to help families work together, which means less stress and more margin for what actually matters. And if you're not completely thrilled, Skylight offers a full refund within three months, no questions asked. Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendar when you go to myskylight.com 1000 hours that's my S K Y-L-I G H T.com 1000 hours for $30 off lately I've been trying to simplify my closet, just choosing pieces that are comfortable, easy to wear, and still look put together without a lot of effort. That's really why I keep coming back to Quince. The quality is there, the fit is right, and everything just makes sense. Quince makes it easy to refresh your everyday this spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim so you're getting that elevated feel without overpaying their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at $30 and they're the kind of pieces you can wear again and again because they're breathable, versatile and just work. One thing I've been wearing a ton lately is the everyday fleece joggers. They're perfect for those cool spring mornings. Really soft, super comfortable, but still structured enough that I don't feel like I'm just in loungewear all day. And that's the thing with quints. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they go straight to ethical factories and skip the middlemen. So you're getting great quality without paying for the label. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside let's talk about the X. It's not a tattoo. You use a Sharpie. You have not gotten Sharpie. Itis. And you write this X on your wrist, thanking Jesus for another day to be alive. When did that idea pop into your head to do that?
- [37:54]
B
Gosh, I. I don't know. I wish I had. I wish I was journaling in that season. You know, you look back in your journals like, oh, I remember all this, but I wasn't journaling in that season. I. Yeah, I wanted something to remind myself to not worry about my kingdom anymore. Like, not build up my kingdom. My kingdom. It only exhausts me. And when Dallas Willard asked the question, when was the last time you were frustrated? I mean, even if whoever's listening, you just think about that question. When's the last time you were frustrated? And then the question was, so whose kingdom or queendom was probably threatened at that point? I'm like, dang it. And I remember going, I don't. I don't want to do this anymore. I want to let my kingdom fall. So his will be the only thing standing at the end of my day. If I'm just joining him in my week and I'm attached to him, then I've got no other jobs other than just to stay attached to him. So for some reason, the X used to stand for the Christ in old, olden days, early days. And I didn't want to do, like, a cross or a, you know, a fish or something like that because it was too obvious. This is just my own little thing just to remind myself, tim, you woke up again. And I get to start my morning saying, jesus, you woke me up again. Thank you. I shouldn't be here, but you woke me up. And I'm just gonna join you today. So every time I try to protect my kingdom, every time I try to, like, make my kingdom more comfortable than somebody else's or my. My kingdom better or smarter than somebody else's, then Jesus, would you let that fall? So yours alone will be the only thing standing at the end of my day. So that just became my prayer every day. And then during the day, I remember my first meetings, record label meetings. I was like, okay, don't try to, like, make out with these people and get them all lathered up and, like, get them laughing and all that stuff. Like, I. Which I could totally do. Like, let Jesus open the doors. It's not. Don't be awesome. Don't try to be awesome. It's not worth it. So that's just fun to see. Where I've. I am today and how I have not opened a door, a figurative door, in 15 years. And my manager will tell you the same thing, you know, which is such a gift to my heart to go, oh, I can just hang out. I can just hang out.
- [40:17]
A
Yeah. And what a thing to pass on to your kids and other people that are in your orbit, especially in. In the field of entertainment.
- [40:27]
B
Yeah.
- [40:27]
A
Because in that field in particular, you're really feeling like, man, I gotta make this happen. You know, I gotta claw my way to the top. I gotta get on this tour. So. Yeah, it's just.
- [40:38]
B
I have all those thoughts, FYI. Like, I feel all those things, so I'm not, like, immune to those things. It's just. I think I'm getting quicker. We get good at what we practice.
- [40:46]
A
Yeah.
- [40:46]
B
And so I'm getting better at practicing and have been getting better at practicing, like, taking a deep breath and saying, jesus, you have my attention. Like, what do you have today? If you. I would love to get on this tour that would be so great financially and also just for what I feel made. What you've made me to do.
- [41:06]
A
Yeah.
- [41:06]
B
And if I don't get on this tour, then you're gonna do something else. And I get to love my kids today. And we might be tighter financially than I'd like to be. And if you're the king, you know what's best for your kingdom. So lead on.
- [41:23]
A
Have you heard a lot of stories about people that are copying the X? Are they doing their own thing?
- [41:29]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. This thing I was at last night, there were. It was a ton of, like, high school students and then a bunch of other people. And the amount of people. I mean, it was 80 of the room, all had X's on their wrist and.
- [41:45]
A
Come on, Tim, that's gotta be so cool.
- [41:48]
B
So beautiful. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. And, you know, some people, it'll make sense, but the amount of people that have told me, Tim, I started doing this and I'm just. It's like, changed my view in my day. And I'm like, yes, yes. And my hope is that people can find their own ex. Their own, like, thing that invites them into waking up every morning. And that, that would. I mean, I just. In the end, I say, what would happen if Jesus people began to join Jesus? What would happen is we'd start looking like Jesus. And, you know, God bless America and stuff, but I don't think America is looking a lot like Jesus these days. We sure claim him a lot. But we are not actually like representers of the heart of God. I think both sides of all the politics, both. Neither side got this thing down. And there's one politic that Jesus invites us into. It's the politic of the kingdom. So I just look at this and go, man, if we could just get more people. And I'm just. I'm a preschooler in this thing. I'm not like, you do not have this thing figured out, but more people that would look like Jesus and be curious about how he would love other people in the world. Man. I just. Let's freaking go is what I say.
- [43:04]
A
So I want to read what you wrote about it in the book. The book is called Waking Up Again, A Journey of Grief and Gratitude. You say the. The X reminds you to replace constant worry with trust. Like every other morning for the past 13 years, I've written the X on my wrist, thanking Jesus for another day to be alive and committing to see whatever and whoever I come into contact with from his perspective. It's a daily commitment to the. To. To commit your wandering attention to Jesus, his nearness and his beautiful ways. So, yeah, what a great thing that you could follow. You could make your own twist on it or write your own X just like you were doing.
- [43:42]
B
Yeah, there's a. There's a practice that. That we do in my. I've got a thing that I run called 10,000 maths.
- [43:48]
A
Yeah.
- [43:49]
B
And the. The practice that has been really, like, changing and that has. That has changed me is it's just a breathing prayer. And, you know, I know people, Christians get all voodoo about that stuff. Like, well, the devil might be in that breath. I don't know, maybe he's in how he act online as well. So did I say that? I didn't say. But breathing prayers. Breathing prayers is just. I'm breathing, and I'm going to use that breath to be curious about God. And so this breathing prayer, I breathe in Jesus, I breathe out. You have my attention. And try it with me. If you're listening, Jesus, breathe out. You have my attention. I mean, just if that became like a constant rhythm of our day, even just people try it for like the next two hours or for a whole day. Like, just say, this is whatever you do, write an X right in her nose, like, whatever. Change your wristwatch, a different hand, but they would just remind you to breathe in Jesus, you have my attention. So when somebody cuts you off, Jesus, you have my attention. When I see somebody say something really harsh about Another image bearer online. And I want to come back and say some other things because I think I'm better than them. Jesus, you have my attention. And then what would happen if Jesus people, as a collective we were to say, jesus, you have our attention? I mean, what could happen? So again, I don't care if Tim Timmons is super awesome or it just. It's not worth it anymore. I used to think that would be really great, but if we could invite each other and just remind each other to join Jesus, even with our breath.
- [45:40]
A
Yes. Well, because it's a seek first thing, Seek first his kingdom. And so that's what you're doing. And it's a reminder. It's a daily reminder. It's. It's really. It's a brilliant idea. I love that you don't remember where it even came from. So great. Like, when did you first do it? You know?
- [45:56]
B
Yeah, I don't remember that. The attention thing. I remember I was reading in the message version of the Bible that Eugene Peterson does and I was reading in Romans 12 and it's talking about our act of worship is when. And all of our other Bibles used. But he uses the word our attention. What holds our attention? I'm like, oh, that word shifts everything for me. Like, not just what I worship. Like we. That we got that with music and all that stuff. But like, what's. Where's my attention? Jesus, I want you to have my attention. Really shifted my life.
- [46:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's fantastic. People can read about it more in the book. I love if you would talk to us about being a beginner so you kick off your music career. So the book also talks about your journey on this music career. One of my favorite lines was when you said the tens of people who came to my table. I read a book one time where a girl was talking about all the tens of dollars she made. That's such a great phrase. But you're talking about the very beginning now. Now, currently you have had someone play you in a movie. I mean that is like the pinnacle. That is so wild to have someone be like, you are the star. Someone's gonna play your part.
- [47:11]
B
Milo Ventimiglia. Yeah.
- [47:13]
A
Who's like a big deal. He plays you as your part in this movie. But, you know, you started in a spot where I feel like you could have quit. You've got four. They give you a 14 minute set. You have no, nobody else in your band. It's just you and a guitar and you. You stuck with it.
- [47:34]
B
Yeah. Yes. I love that. I Love that. Yes. Number one, Milo is very good looking. He's Gilmore Girls, Jess, if you're curious people. Or he's in. He's Jack in. Oh, my gosh. This is us. This is.
- [47:50]
A
This is us.
- [47:50]
B
And then the heroes, he's like, this is the show. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I cried everything.
- [47:55]
A
Yeah, this is us.
- [47:58]
B
I think the, the beauty of it all and some of the gift of the sorrow of cancer and the. I think the gift of cancer sober is sobriety. Not just drug and alcohol, but like sobriety in life. Like, all right, especially given five years. And then every, you know, it's incurable, so it's not gone. So I get to just kind of like go, okay, my life for me to live as Christ, to die is gain. So today I get to just kind of join them. And I think, thankfully, and I think it's important for all of us. And I tell this to artists all the time, that younger artists that, that care, like, why are you doing what you do? If you're a, an artist, if you are a financial person, if you are, whatever you do. I think it's really important for us to have a why. And the why is not the thing. Like whatever the thing that we're doing. If it's just momming, just momming alone or being a parent alone, that'll drive you nuts. If that's like the, the thing.
- [49:06]
A
Yeah.
- [49:06]
B
There's gotta be. I think, and I could be wrong, but I think there's gotta be. Like, it's not just like, are you a purpose driven mom? You know, like, I don't know about that crap. I'm just saying, like, what's the bigger thing going on? Like, for me, music is just the vehicle that gets me to. Lets me do what I feel made to do.
- [49:24]
A
Yeah.
- [49:24]
B
My book is merely a vehicle to get me to do what I feel made to do. And if you're a mom and you're like, I think I'm just always momming, like, that's what I'm made to do. And I would challenge you and say, actually, but what, what's really happening if you're a worship leader? Like, well, I'm going to lead worship. Well, okay, great. But songs, who cares what happens when the songs go away? Like, what. What's our. What. What are we actually being invited into? For me, I'm a missionary to Christians. That's like what I get to do. I get to disrupt Jesus people and invite into a bigger story. That's what I get to do. That is my Mission in life. And that is the mission. But the real mission is just joining Jesus in my day.
- [50:08]
A
Yeah.
- [50:09]
B
Who does he have? I'm a blesser, so I get to bless people. And however that happens, he opens those doors. So I'm just. I feel like I'm on mission. So why haven't I stopped when I've got do some of the crappiest gigs that have ever been on the planet? I mean. I mean, you guys, the stories I can tell of just things, you're like, oh, my gosh, I left my family for this. And if I was just going, you know, earlier in my life, that would have been, like, you know, beneath me. Like, that is not okay. Yet I'm on mission. Whether I've got 12 people in front of me or I've got 20,000 people in front of me, whether I had tens of people in my line or I just got off tour and I have hundreds of people in my line to talk to me every night. Either way, I'm. I'm finding a place of contentment because God's the one opening the doors. I'm not doing jack, except for just joining him wherever he has me. And, man, I can breathe deep for the first time.
- [51:06]
A
So that's good. And. And a message to anyone who's starting out anything right. It's like finding your purpose and linking up with what God is doing. Talk about 10,000 minutes talk. So ours is a thousand hours outside.
- [51:18]
B
Yes.
- [51:18]
A
Sometimes people will say, you're the 10,000 hours outside lady. And I was like, well, 10,000 is better than 1,000.
- [51:24]
B
Totally, totally.
- [51:26]
A
But this has to do with the amount of minutes we have.
- [51:28]
B
Yeah, they're 10, 80 minutes in a week. You're welcome, everybody. 10, 80 minutes in a week. And I had just left being a worship leader at these ginormous churches in California, and. And every part of my week was worrying about the 80 minutes that we gathered as the church. Like, every part. And you think about the resources that our institutions, our churches, we put all our resource into that 80 minutes, which is fine. That's great. That's a way to do it. But there are 10,000 other minutes until we gather again. And I just at some point was like, dang it, I'm killing it at the 80 minutes. And I think, you know, our American church is. We're really doing it. We're doing stuff in the. In the 80 minutes. Yep. And yet the 10,000 minutes, man, that's really tripping us up. Yeah, tripping me up. And so I was like, how About I just spend the rest of my days focusing more on the 10,000 minutes and for 80 minutes are inviting us into the 10,000 minutes well and preparing us and then awesome. But so I just, my friends and I started saying, let's just practice a few things like Jesus principles and see how it changes us. So that's kind of the premise of 10,000 minutes. And it's way more practical of like, let's, let's practice things like whoever here, Jesus said, whoever hears my words and puts them into practice. It's like you're building your house on a rock. If not, you're building your house on the sand. It's just not going to, to do well.
- [53:04]
A
Yeah. Okay, so tell us where we can find everything because you go on tour, you have your own podcast. This movie is going to be streaming very soon and also 10,000 minutes.
- [53:13]
B
Yeah. Gosh, I think you just nailed it.
- [53:15]
A
Where is it?
- [53:16]
B
Yeah, I mean, you, you can go to Tim Timmons.com or Tim Music, Timmons Music Instagram. I, I, I love being on there and talking to people and hearing people's stories and all that stuff. So I, I'd love that. Gosh, I mean, I'm pretty easy to find. Just look up 10,000 minutes or Tim Timmons or who's the ugly bald guy that was played by a really good looking guy. Put that into the Internets and see what that says.
- [53:41]
A
And the movie will be streaming. So if you missed it in the theater.
- [53:44]
B
Yeah, I can only imagine. Two was in the theater then it was just, it's on Apple. You can buy it now or rent it and then it'll be streaming here soon.
- [53:53]
A
Did your kids love it? Did they love, like the red carpet premiere, all that kind of fun stuff?
- [53:58]
B
I think so. I hope so. Yeah. It was more fun. Milo became a really good friend and so that, that was a real joy for my family because they just love him and his wife and. Yeah, so that's.
- [54:11]
A
Sticking with it opens up all these doors for the kids. All right, one last thing I want to ask you about. I've never seen this in a book before. So this is in your acknowledgments at the very end and you say this, this. Thank you, Jeff, for breaking up with Hillary in college.
- [54:32]
B
I probably shouldn't have said that. I probably shouldn't have said that in the book.
- [54:37]
A
All right. Because you got her.
- [54:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. They were engaged and he broke it off, which he had every right to do. And I could not be more thankful that, that, that happened because I got to be married to this woman who is just a freaking legend of a human. So I'm. I'm a big fan. So. That's really.
- [55:02]
A
So many. So much of it reminds me of, you know, like, the Joseph story, where it's like, what you meant for evil, not that this Jeff guy meant this for evil, but, like, you know, what could have gone so poorly. God, use it for good. And it's like thing after thing after thing in your story. You move across the country, you know, you build this community there. It's just. It's remarkable how many instances of it there are in your story. So, Tim, this has been so cool. Tim Timmons. What an honor to get a chance to talk with you. We always end our show with the same question. The question is, what's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside.
- [55:38]
B
Who? I just got one. The first one that came to my brain. Oh, gosh, there now. There's flu, flooding, so it's not. That's hurtful. Probably spending a lot of time in Yosemite as a kid. I spent a lot of time in Yosemite. I camp there every summer, and then I got to be a counselor there. But climbing Half Dome, and those were moments when it's like, oh, this is. This is different. Like, yeah, God. God, I mean, it's just. It's just so majestic. And then I'm from the ocean, so I. I've. I. I just think of all the times that I've spent in the ocean swimming, that I think we see God when we are outside.
- [56:21]
A
I agree.
- [56:22]
B
Really different way. Even on my walks, every morning, there's a place I stop every morning, and we just. Whoever I'm with, it's like, hey, there's. Just a minute. Just a minute. Ish. Just worse quiet. And we're just. We're overlooking this property, and. And we just get to kind of sit and pray for a second. However you want to stretch, I don't know, do whatever you got to do. But, man, that is always one of my favorite times of my walks. Even if it's a minute just looking down at the. The grass and thinking of the microcosm that's under that grass, like, and then looking up and seeing the majestic mountain and the trees and going, God, you are. Are unbelievable. So I. Outside is like the greatest, so well done.
- [57:09]
A
Yeah. Yeah. You talked about Yosemite in the book. You talked about your grandpa, too. Going. Going to visit in Ohio. You're like, we step back in time.
- [57:16]
B
Yeah. Yes. Sorry.
- [57:21]
A
But, you know, he taught you how to fish. It's just so much in the book about relationship. It was incredible to read it and so I so enjoyed it. People can come see you on tour. They can listen to your podcast. This movie, I Can Only Imagine two It'll be streaming by the time this comes out and the book is phenomenal. Waking Up Again Tim Timmons with your wife, Hillary. A journey of grief and gratitude. Thanks for being here.
- [57:46]
B
Thank you friend. That is so fun. There's a new way to Sweet Green Meet Wraps Handheld. Hearty and made for life on the move. With bold, chef crafted flavors, fresh ingredients and over 40 grams of protein, they're built to satisfy without slowing you down. Try Wraps today in the app or@order.sweetgreen.com available at all participating locations.