← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 827: Peace Before Productivity | Jordan Raynor, Redeeming Your Time
00:56:13
Loading summary
Transcript159 lines
- [00:01]
Sponsor/Ad Host
This episode is sponsored by Fora Travel. I've always been the person people come to for travel advice, whether it's planning a camping trip in Northern Michigan, figuring out how to travel well with kids across the country, or finding experiences that actually help families connect instead of just filling an itinerary. I genuinely have loved helping people create meaningful adventures. And I know a lot of you listening are probably that person, too. The friend who plans the trip, the one who researches the details. The one person people trust to find the hidden gems and make everything run smoothly. I Fora is built for people exactly like that. Fora is a modern travel agency that helps people build their own travel business, no matter what stage of life they're in. You don't need prior experience because Fora gives you the training, technology, and support to help you get started. And you're joining a community of people who are building businesses centered around experiences, relationships, and helping others travel well. A lot of advisors begin simply by helping people they already know and grow naturally from there. What I also appreciate is that there are no sales quotas or minimums. You can build this at a pace that works for your life and your family. Your next act starts here. Become a for adviser today at foratravel.com 1000hours. That's F O R A travel.com 1000hours. And make sure you tell them we sent you for travel.com 1000hours. All right, here we go.
- [01:17]
Jenny Eric
Welcome to the 1000hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Eric. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have an incredibly accomplished guest today, Jordan Rayner, the author of eight books. The latest is called the Spirit in you, which is a book for kids. There's actually six several beautiful kids books. The royal in you, the creator in you. He also has a book called redeeming your time. Isn't that what we want? And a new book coming out called redeeming your goals. Jordan helps Christians respond to the radical biblical truth that your work matters for eternity. You also have your own podcast called Mere Christians. This is a lot.
- [01:52]
Jordan Rayner
You got a lot going on. My wife would say, exhausting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [01:56]
Jenny Eric
It's a lot. A lot going on. So I'm excited to talk about all of these topics. What got you interested in the topic of connecting your work to your faith?
- [02:05]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, so I spent about 10 years working full time as a tech entrepreneur and CEO, and about halfway through that journey, I was exiting my second company, trying to figure out what the heck am I going to do next professionally? And when you sell two companies. Natural thing is to go start a third. And that's what I wanted to do. But frankly, I didn't feel permission to do that because I would go to church on Sundays and feel a guilt that I've learned over the years is very common for the people in the pews of how dare I want to go to work on Monday and do the thing I think God created me to do, which is build this business or whatever it is for you when there's a need for people to move to mud huts 5,000 miles away from home to make disciples or stay here and plant churches, whatever.
- [02:45]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [02:45]
Jordan Rayner
And so for a hot minute there, my wife and I were praying about two paths. Path A was go start another business. Path B was to go plant a church. And around this time had a godly mentor. Yeah, I know. Very different. Well, very different paths.
- [02:59]
Jenny Eric
Yes. But also some similarities.
- [03:02]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, 100%. And that's why I was drawn to that.
- [03:05]
Jenny Eric
Right.
- [03:05]
Jordan Rayner
It was like, okay, this is similar, and this would be more eternally significant, whatever. And so, by God's grace, I had a godly mentor pulled me aside after churches one Sunday, and he goes, hey, I heard you're thinking about planning a church. And I'm thinking, this guy's gonna pat me on the back or maybe, you know, write a check to help get the church started. He just looks me dead in the eyes and goes, yeah. I gotta be honest, this sounds pretty stupid for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, whoa, tell me more, Rick.
- [03:31]
Jenny Eric
Very cool.
- [03:32]
Jordan Rayner
And he's like, listen, Jordan, you're a talented entrepreneur. You served your customers and investors and team with excellence. Why do you think you have to plan to church and do ministry? Don't you get that your work is ministry? And I said, oh, yeah, I get it, Rick. My job is my mission field. I'm going to work tomorrow so I can share the gospel with my coworkers, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, yeah, sure, Jordan. But, Jordan, God cares about your work itself, not just the evangelism you do within the world. And I, Jenny, did not have a category for that. I never heard that before. And so he said, hey, here's what I want you to do. Go home, read Genesis 1 and 2. And I arrogantly think I've read Genesis 1 and 2 a thousand times. What am I going to see? But, Jenny, what I saw is the answer your question. It changed my life forever. I saw that long before God tells us that he is holy or loving or omnipotent. The first thing he wanted us to know about him is that he is a God who creates, a God who works. And way before we get the so called Great commission, Matthew 28, God hands us a Genesis 1, the first commission to work in his image to fill the earth and subdue it, to make this earth more useful and beautiful you for other human beings benefit and enjoyment. So long story short, I did not go plan to church. Right. I went ran another business. And ever since I've been on this relentless quest to unpack and communicate the considerable truths that God's word has to teach us about his work. How much he loves the work that we do with our hands for his glory and the good of others.
- [05:08]
Jenny Eric
That is such an interesting missing mission Jordan. And I'm wondering if this is coming up a lot in your world because of AI. So I've had several conversations recently that are focusing around the concept of universal basic income and AI taking over all for starting, starting with the white collar jobs, but then with robotics coming for all the rest of the jobs and that, you know, there'll be this universal basic income and your livelihood won't be tied to your work and, and how glorious that will be. And that, that is like anti biblical.
- [05:38]
Jordan Rayner
It's anti biblical, right? Now listen, like we, we got to find work. I, I think the God of the Bible defines work more broadly than the think you do, than the thing you do for income. But it's not less than that, right?
- [05:50]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [05:51]
Jordan Rayner
And the Bible is the only religious text that claims that God himself works.
- [05:58]
Jenny Eric
It's radical.
- [05:59]
Jordan Rayner
Every other origin story says that the gods created human beings to do the menial labor in the world to serve the gods. Only the God of the Bible starts this story by himself working, creating us to work in his image. And oh by the way, when he sent his son Jesus Christ to earth when the word became flesh, he did not work as a religious professional. He grew up in the home of a small business owner named Joseph. Making things with his hands. That gives radical dignity to the work that we do today. And this has to color the way that we are thinking about universal basic income. It has to cover the way that we are thinking about work. AI is an incredible tool. I don't think based on what I see in scripture that God is anti technology. But I do think he's pro work and I know he's pro relationship and that's got to color how we think about any technological innovation including AI.
- [06:49]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. All right, so I've got a couple of your books here. I have Redeeming your time. Seven Biblical Principles for Being Purposeful, Present and Wildly Productive. I also have one of your kids books, which I love that you have books for kids. We'll talk about those in a little bit. But this book kind of kicks it off with the feeling of being swamped. And I mean, I think this is super relatable. Your to do list seems to be getting longer, not shorter. You write your day is filled with back to back meat meetings. You're there, but you're not really there. Your brain is catching up with the thinking that you didn't have any time to do during the day. Everything is a mad rush. So you say. It increasingly feels like time happens to us. Like we're running a race that's impossible to win. We have too much to do and not nearly enough time to do it. Can you talk about why your book is different in terms of productivity and, and how we deal with our time? Because you say I look at the Bible.
- [07:43]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. There's 60,000 books on Amazon on the topic of time management.
- [07:49]
Jenny Eric
No way.
- [07:50]
Jordan Rayner
I swear, I swear I'm not making that up.
- [07:52]
Jenny Eric
Isn't that interesting though, because it's such a struggle. There are a thousand people who have gotten a book contract.
- [07:59]
Jordan Rayner
There's 60,000. Well, I mean, let's be honest, 5,000 of those are self published. But. But yeah, there's 60,000 books. So there had to be a really compelling reason. And here it is. Ginny, the solution to being swamped is not having the right family calendar device in your living room. It is not ultimately having the right to do the solution. I would argue the ultimate solution to being swamped is Jesus Christ. Right? And that may sound impractical, but bear with me for a second. Let me give you two reasons why Jesus the answer to being swamped. Number one, Jesus gives you and I peace before we do a single thing to get unswamped. I have read every perennial best selling book on time management under the sun. I've read at least 100 of them. this point, they all have essentially the same message. They say, hey, busy mom, busy entrepreneur, busy whatever. You're feeling swamped and overwhelmed. Buy my book, follow my system, do exercises X, Y and Z. And then I promise by the end, you're going to find peace. We all know how that movie ends, right? It doesn't work. Why? Because this is essentially workspace productivity. But Jesus gives us a radically different perspective. What I call grace based productivity. Here's why. The story of scripture is that God himself died for you when you were his enemy. His enemy. And if you believe that, you can certainly believe that God loves you equally on your most productive days and your least productive days. When you feel on top of the world educating your kids and when you feel like a total failure to. Jesus gives you peace and rest for your soul before you do a single thing to get on swamp. That's the first way he solves the problem. Here's the second. Jesus shows us exactly how God would manage his time in a 24 hour day if he were to walk the earth. Because that's exactly what Jesus did. Jesus was 100% God and 100% man, which means he had to steward the exact same 24 hour time constraint that you and I are faced with today. And here's the good news. We're not in the dark as to how Jesus manages time because we've got four biographies on his life. They're called Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Right. And no, of course the gospel biographies don't show Jesus with a to do list, but they do show him dealing with distractions at work. One time, a guy literally dropped through the roof over Jesus head while he was working. Unless that's happened to you, you're not more swamped than Jesus was. And so I started asking the question, Jenny. All right, if I believe that Jesus is the author of time, who manages time perfectly, how did he do it? How did he manage a 24 hour day? And the result are the seven biblical principles in this book. These seven timeless time management principles from the life of Christ that I then mapped to more than 30 super practical practices to help you and I live out those principles in our modern context. That's what makes this book different.
- [10:54]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. Peace comes first, not second. You seek first, the kingdom of God first, and all these things will be added unto you as well. Okay, There's a couple specific things I wanted to talk about that really great grabbed my attention. So one of them was, and I don't do this very often because I have so many books that I am, you know, swamped in talking about being swamped, but you gave this one such a glowing review that I had to get it.
- [11:20]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Okay.
- [11:21]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, yeah. Okay.
- [11:22]
Jenny Eric
So can you talk about this? This book is called Getting Things Done. The Art of Stress Free Productivity by David Allen. So you, you talk about how this one changed your life. Okay. Okay. So talk. Can you give the story about Eric? Eric, it like never drops the ball. And so I think it's a fantastic idea, Jordan, to be like, okay, Eric, so what's your secret? And he points you to this book. I never heard of it.
- [11:45]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, so this is about 15 years ago. I had sold my first company. I. I went to go work at the acquiring company, and my counterpart was this guy named Eric Rappert. She's still of mine. And a couple months after working there, I was like, this guy has not missed a single deadline, he has not missed a single message, he's not missed anything, and he's, he's managing all these really complicated projects. I was like, dude, what is the deal here? And he pointed me to this really old, tearfully boring, but terrifically helpful book called Getting Things Done by David Allen. And what it taught me, kind of the big takeaway, is that most of us drop the ball not because we've got the wrong technology, it's because we've got the wrong workflow. We do not have an intentional system of collecting all of the open loops in our email inboxes, our brains or whatever. An open loop I would define as anything personal, professional, urgent or distant, small or big, that you have any level of internal commitment to do. It could be as simple as, I gotta take out the trash tonight, or as complex as, man, I really want to take the kids to Hawaii for our oldest, 18th birthday, whatever it is. Right? All these are open loops and your brain assigns equal mental weight to all of them. And I would argue the fact that these open loops are in our brains alone is causing two problems. Number one, it's ensuring that we are not obeying Jesus command that our yes BS because we're inevitably forgetting things. And number two, even if we are keeping our yes as our guests, it's causing us to do it with a tremendous amount of anxiety and stress because your brain is constantly rehearsing these things in your head, reminding you of all the things you've yet to get done until you get those open loops out of your brain and into an external system. So when I read Getting Things Done by David Allen, this is the first time I had this idea, first time I had heard this, and it radically changed my life. And so I took this 300 page, tearfully boring book and boiled it down into 12 pages for you in redeeming your time. So that again, connected to the biblical principle. What's the biblical principle? Jesus always did what he said he was going to do.
- [13:52]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Jordan Rayner
His yes was always yes. And when we fail to do that, we are not just being forgetful, we are not just dropping the ball, we are being poor. Reflections of the word Jesus Christ, when we fail to keep our word to our kids, to our spouses, to our community, to our co workers, et cetera. That's why this matters so much.
- [14:12]
Jenny Eric
Okay, so the open loop. I think this is a really interesting topic because no matter what stage of life you're in, I mean, if you are a mother listening in, there are so many open loops. Business owner, if you're a student, there's so many open loops. So you're talking about how this is contributing to anxiety and stress. The gospel is supposed to be our source of rest and ambition. So you give some good examples about
- [14:36]
Sponsor/Ad Host
how to start to close the loops.
- [14:38]
Jenny Eric
And you, I thought this was a great thing that you brought up was your grandparents. It was your great grandparents, actually. So you're from Florida, you got, your grandparents are from Florida too. Well, what was their work? Their work was rolling cigars, which is very straightforward. So you don't have as, I mean, you're still going to have open loops for family and meals and that type of thing, but your work loops are going to be fairly straightforward and not that open ended. So can you talk about the change there in society and how now that since we're knowledge workers, we have all these open loops now? The book contains a ton of practical advice on how to deal with it.
- [15:13]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So my, my great grandparents, man, their workflow is super, super simple. Take a cigar leaf, roll it, slap a sticker on it, next, keep going and going and going. And I'm so grateful that they did that work and that people continue to do work like that today. But most people listening to this podcast are doing far more complicated work that's not linear, it's not clear what the next action for each project is. And so the magic of this workflow that I teach in redeeming your time is not one, collecting all of the open loops out of your head, email, inbox, text messages, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But also number two, taking those amorphous open loops and defining your work clearly so that you actually have a to do list. Because here's the problem, Jenny, most people's to do lists are not to do lists. They got things in there to do. It's like, doctor's appointment, I can't do a doctor's appointment. Or like, I don't know, Halloween costumes. That's not something that I could do. And so every time I look at my to do list, it's a subtle reminder that, like, oh, I have not yet taken the time to define what actually needs to happen with this thing that currently says doctor's appointment in order for my brain to let it go completely. Right. So let's take the doctor's appointment as an example. Right. The workflow I take you through the book is saying, okay, what is this thing? What is my, what is my actual desired outcome for this thing? The actual desired outcome is to make sure that my youngest kid goes and sees a doctor for, I don't know, her eyesight, whatever it is.
- [16:46]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Right.
- [16:46]
Jordan Rayner
That's the project. That's what's got to happen for your brain to forget about this forever. Right. Then you define the next section. What's the next action for that? Well, I need to, I can't take her at this time that the doctor made available. So I need to contact my husband or my wife to see if they can take them, whatever. And so it's just taking all of the mental work that we are all already doing in order to get anything done and batching it in a rigorous but life giving workflow. And Jenny, I've heard from so many stay at home parents to baristas to CEOs of Fortune 500 companies back, this thing changed my life. And then number one, it made my sbs. Number two, it made me actually get stuff done way faster. And number three, made me much more present with my kids and my spouse because I knew I had a system that was tracking everything that I had to do. And so I was no longer mentally rehearsing everything that I had to do when I was sitting around the dinner table.
- [17:45]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. And all the while it's alleviating anxiety and stress. So yeah, that was incredibly important thing that you can learn about in this book called redeeming your time. You do have a new book coming out in October called Redeeming your goals so people can pre order that. And then you have a course as well about redeeming your time. So I'll make sure I'll put all the links in the show notes.
- [18:05]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Summer at our house is basically controlled chaos. Somebody's at camp, somebody needs picked up from a golf course. We're trying to squeeze in road trips in Long Lake days. And somehow the normal house responsibilities still keep going in the background. And when you have pets, those responsibilities definitely include the litter box. That's why Whiskers Litter robot has been so helpful for busy seasons like this. It automatically cycles after every use, so there's no daily scooping hanging over your head when you walk back in the door exhausted at the end of the day. And the Whisker app is surprisingly useful too. It notifies you when the unit completes a clean cycle, when the drawer levels need attention, or when litter levels are low. You could also keep track of your cat's weight and bathroom usage trends over time, which is helpful information to have without needing to constantly monitor things yourself. I think that's what I appreciate most. It just quietly handles one more daily chore so you can focus on your actual family life. Maintain your cat's litter while focusing on spending time with your family. Learn more about Whisker Litter robot models and starter kits today. Take an additional $50 off bundles with code 1000 hours when you shop whisker.com 1000 hours that's an additional $50 off bundles with Code 1000 hours@whisker.com 1000 hours summer can be such a valuable reset for homeschool families. There's more freedom, more time together and often a different rhythm than the rest of the year. But it can also be a really helpful season to reinforce important skills and help kids head into the fall feeling confident and prepared. There's one reason a platform like IXL can fit so naturally into a homeschool routine. Whether your family school is year round or takes a lighter summer approach, IXL is an award winning online learning platform that offers interactive practice in math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged and gives parents clear insight into progress throughout the year. What I especially appreciate is the combination of instant feedback and progress tracking. Kids get explanations right away as they work and parents can clearly see growth over time. Those small wins, progress markers and celebrations help keep momentum going while giving families confidence about where their kids are academically before the next school year begins. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours. Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com 1000hours. Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Summer has a way of simplifying things for me. I naturally start reaching for lighter fabrics, fewer pieces and clothes that just feel easy to live in. And that's one of the reasons I've become such a fan of quints. They really do such a good job of balancing quality, comfort and simplicity. Everything feels elevated without feeling overly precious. Their pieces are made with premium materials like breathable European linen, organic cotton and washable silk look, but the pricing is what always surprises me because it's so much more reasonable than you'd expect. Quince has beautiful linen pants, dresses and tops starting at just $32. And their denim is unbelievably soft. I've also been wearing one of their organic cotton sweaters on repeat during cool summer mornings and evenings. But what makes me continue to support Quince is honestly the company itself. They work directly with ethical factories. Skip the middlemen and focus on making really high quality essentials accessible instead of chasing luxury markups. I just really admire that model. And now I keep finding myself shopping beyond clothing too. Bedding, kitchen items, travel pieces. They've created this whole ecosystem of elevated everyday essentials that still feel grounded and practical. My Quince crossbody bag has become something I carry almost daily this summer because it literally works with everything and feels so well made. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside here's another thing you talk about.
- [21:52]
Jenny Eric
You talk about productive rest. And I didn't know about bi hourly breaks. So you talk about how there's these rhythms that God has built into our world. You need not, you know, you have nightly rest. There's supposed to be weekly rest if you take, you know, for the Sabbath, a day off. But there is also a. A cycle for bi hourly breaks. Can you explain that?
- [22:15]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. So scientists will tell you that God has designed our bodies to pulse and what are called ultradian cycles. So here's the idea. If you're doing 90 minutes of really intense mental work, I. E. Outlining the next chapter for your novel or preparing curriculum for your kids, whatever it is, your brain, as you get close to that 90 minute mark, is screaming for a break because you've reached the end of that ultradian cycle. And in order to be productive for the next 90 minutes, you've got to take a 15 to 30 minute break because your body is pulsing in these roughly two hour cycles of energy. And most people just plow through. They get to 90 minutes, like, great, straight on till the next 90 minutes. No break whatsoever, except for maybe to go to the bathroom. But what scientists have learned is that if you break and break well, you will be mentally much more productive for that next block of deep focus work. What does breaking well mean? Here's very, very, very simple advice. If you work with your mind primarily Rests with your hands. And if you work with your hands, rest with your mind. So I work primarily with my mind. Writing books, it is not restful for at the end of 90 minutes of writing for me to read a book, you know what's restful? Going for a run or doing dishes or taking out the trash or doing laundry with my wife. That's what's restful. Because of how God has designed our bodies to work with these ultra radiant cycles. It's a game changer if you learn to break really, really well every 90 or so minutes.
- [23:52]
Jenny Eric
Okay. And this is important to, to know if you are a parent who has children who have homework or you're homeschooling.
- [23:58]
Jordan Rayner
Yes.
- [23:59]
Jenny Eric
Or you're a teacher that's listening in. This is how our brains are wired. So you say the data is indisputable about this. And at the beginning you were like, this seems crazy. You know, like, oh, I thought it was insane.
- [24:12]
Jordan Rayner
I thought it was insane. But there was a, there was a great old book by Tony Schwartz called the way we're working isn't working. That really unpacks the science of this. And it is pretty indisputable. Right. Like if you've got kids, I, I do this with my own kids. Right. When they're done with let they're not doing 90 minutes. Right. But you know, 30 minutes of homework at a time, whatever it is. Go build with Legos for 10 minutes.
- [24:37]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [24:37]
Jordan Rayner
Or go jump on the trampoline or go swim the pool, whatever. If you work with your mind, rest with your hands. If you work with your hands, rest with your mind.
- [24:43]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Yeah.
- [24:44]
Jenny Eric
I love this saying that you had in the book from Winston Churchill that said the ideal day would consist of 200 bricks and 2,000 words, which is like laying bricks, you know, getting out and doing something with your body in three dimensions, like up, down, sideways, all the different ways. And also doing something with your mind by hourly breaks are almost completely restore your energy. And in the long run you get more work done. And so in the book, the book is called redeeming your time. You have a whole list of, of
- [25:12]
Sponsor/Ad Host
ideas for how to break well.
- [25:14]
Jenny Eric
So that's a fantastic resource in this book. Sleep. Okay. You go to bed early.
- [25:20]
Jordan Rayner
I go to bed crazy early. And this is still true. I wrote this book six years ago. I'm still going to bed super early.
- [25:26]
Jenny Eric
Okay, talk about that,
- [25:30]
Jordan Rayner
Say more about that.
- [25:31]
Jenny Eric
Well, listen, I mean, what do people say to you when you're like, I'm. You're in bed before 9 o' clock.
- [25:38]
Jordan Rayner
They don't believe me. They don't believe me first of all, unless they, you know, my friends like show up at my house and then they realize, oh no, all the lights are actually off until it's actually in bed. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
- [25:49]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [25:49]
Jordan Rayner
So listen, I don't always love what science says, but it doesn't make it less scientific the fact that I don't like it. And one of the things that's fairly settled science at this point is that we need an eight hour sleep opportunity every night. Not seven, not six. And listen, have I always got an eight hours sleep? No, I haven't.
- [26:08]
Jenny Eric
Right.
- [26:09]
Jordan Rayner
But that is ideal for like 98% of people. I, I forget what this stat was that I cited in the book, but it's something like you're like 20 times more likely to win an Olympic gold medal than you are to have this rare genetic case that allows you to be at 100% capacity with less than 8 hours of sleep. And so yeah, listen, that requires me to make a lot of trade offs, right? I go to bed 8:45 every, not every single night. Most nights I'm going to bed 8, 4, 5 because I wake up at 5 o' clock and I'm getting everything ready for the day. Tonight I'll be up past 8:45, my daughter's got a football game. I probably won't go to bed until 9:45 or 10 tonight. But guess what? I'm going to be sleeping in tomorrow, right? I'm going to be sleeping until probably 6am Now I realize I've got the luxury of doing that and I have a tremendous amount of empathy for people who don't have the luxury of changing their schedule. But my best piece of advice here, here's the deal, Jenny. Most people know they need eight hours of sleep, especially parents. Parents are freaking exhausted. I'm exhausted, right? They know they want it. They don't believe it's possible. Here's. You can buy expensive sleep masks, you can buy expensive products and sleep supplements. The simplest thing to do, the least expensive thing to do, set a consistent bedtime. Most people have a consistent time in which they need to wake up. But most people, if you ask them, hey, what time do you go to bed? They say something like somewhere between 9 and 11, depending on what's on TV. That's crazy town, right? Like if we want to get an eight hour sleep opportunity and our wake up time is fixed and yeah, it's simple math, we just got to reverse engineer that. And listen, you Might not be able to do that perfectly in this season. And that's fine. Right? You're a child of God who is loved equally when you get four hours of sleep and when you get eight hours of sleep. But if you want to fight for this, if you really want to do the work of getting hours of sleep, set a consistent bedtime. That is the highest leverage thing you could do to fight for this.
- [28:04]
Jenny Eric
So for you additionally, you say you're done with everything productive by 7:30, so you still have some wind down time. I think that's sometimes part of the problem, right. Is like we're working so late and then you feel like you don't have any time to wind down. So you're like, look, I'm done with my productive things by 7:30. In bed by 8. Between 8:45 and 8:55. I had read about this product. You know, you are, you are really drawn to the products, you know, because it's like instead of just doing the easy thing, which is like, have a schedule. I saw this product and it was about. You could add some sort of like heated water system. It's not a waterbed, but it's like a water system that you can add to your bed and it warms up. You plug it in somehow and it like warms up in the morning and that wakes you up because as your body temperature rises, it like naturally wakes you up.
- [28:46]
Sponsor/Ad Host
I was like, oh, I could use that.
- [28:48]
Jenny Eric
You know. Then I looked into it and it was like three grand.
- [28:51]
Jordan Rayner
Oh yeah. These companies are making so much money based on our unwillingness to do the hard but highest leverage things. Yeah, the highest, hardest level things are pretty inexpensive. Oftentimes they're free. Set the bedtimes free. It's hard, but it's hard. It's hard to do. Yeah.
- [29:10]
Jenny Eric
Yeah, it is. Okay, can we talk about this topic? We all die with unfinished symphonies. I think this is important because you say God doesn't need us to finish our to do lists.
- [29:20]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. I mean, I wish somebody had told me this 10 years ago. I have grown so much less hurried in this life. In the macro sense of what am I going to accomplish before I die? But also on a daily sense of man, I just can. It feels like I can never finish my to do this. Knowing this truth that if the things are on my, all of us are going to die with unfinished symphonies. All of us are going to die with things left on our to do list. But if the things on my to do list are on God's to do list, he will either A, complete that work with no other human involvement, blessed be the name of the Lord, B, he will tap somebody else to complete that work, because, let's face it, you and I aren't as special as we think we are, or C, when I arise from the nap that is his death, if those things are still on God's to do list, I think he's going to give me that work to do on the new earth, free from the curse of sin. And we don't talk about this in the church at all today, but Isaiah 65 and Revelation 22 make it abundantly clear that God's plan for us on the new earth is not an eternal worship service, but eternal worship through service. Isaiah 65, verse 22 says that God's chosen people will, quote, long, enjoy the work of their hands, and they will not labor in vain. End quote. And so, man, I don't have to complete that novel in this lifetime. I don't have to see the world in this lifetime. I don't have to complete my bucket list in this lifetime, because I will have billions of years with my desires perfectly aligned with my heavenly Father's, to do lots of productive and beautiful things free from the curse of sin with the risen king. So, dying with unfinished sympathy. Great. I'll be awake in just a little bit, and I can't wait to do them with my Lord, shoulder to shoulder on the new earth.
- [31:12]
Jenny Eric
Oh, Jordan. That is interesting. I heard a preacher one time, you know, like you, you sit through so many sermons and you like. I don't really remember hardly any of them, but I do remember one sermon series where this pastor who turned out to be kind of a goofy guy, but he said heaven will be very similar, but vastly superior. And so he's like, it's going to be the perfect mix of city and country, work and rest, you know, community, all. All of the things like, you're not going to be sitting on the cloud with the harp.
- [31:41]
Jordan Rayner
You know, we've been sold this lie, this half. It's a half truth. It's not a lie. This half truth. The earth is our temporary home. It's kind of true. The whole truth is that earth is our temporary home until Christ returns and makes it our perfect and permanent home. Once again, the present heaven is not our eternal home. The new earth is. And that new earth is marked by a city. See Revelation 20:21. It's marked by culture. There are cultural goods in the new earth that we know for sure because of Revelation 21 and Isaiah 60 and it's marked by work free from the curse of sin. And by the way, I know we're talking to a lot of parents work that we do with our kids. Isaiah 65, 22. What I just, what I just quoted. God's chosen people long enjoy the work of their hands. Verse 23 says they and their descendants with them.
- [32:31]
Jenny Eric
Oh, that's so interesting. That's so interesting because if that, if that is the utopia. Right. That's the vision of like the perfect thing. That's. It's interesting. I have a. This person I know who wrote a book called. Well, I'm trying to see where it is. Durable trades. It's called the Family Economy. Discovering the family as it was designed to work. Look at this in the middle book. It was like a life changing one about how we are supposed to pass things down generationally. And like we've really changed culturally with kind of like all individualism. And you know, you send your kid off at a certain age and they kind of find their way in the world. But that's pretty interesting that you brought that up.
- [33:15]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. Isaiah 65, 17, 23, they and their descendants with them. And so as we work with our kids and listen, not everybody has the opportunity to do that, but as we do that, we're rehearsing something that is deeply sacred and eternal.
- [33:27]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Right.
- [33:28]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [33:28]
Jordan Rayner
And I actually think work could be one of the most beautiful opportunities to disciple our kids in the way of the world.
- [33:35]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [33:35]
Jordan Rayner
I think it's absolutely part of the reason why God created us to work too. As with all things, conform us to the image of his son.
- [33:41]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. So your unfinished symphony, that. What that does is I feel like that also having the perspective that you will have time to come, that also I feel like helps to release, reduce anxiety and stress and bring more peace.
- [33:56]
Jordan Rayner
100. I'm about to turn 40, Jenny. Yeah, in a couple weeks. And man, I. When I turned 30, I was freaking out, running out of time. Running out of time. I've run out of time to do everything I wanted to do. Walt Disney felt like this. A fortune teller once told Walt Disney that he would die on his birthday. But then the fortune teller didn't tell him which birthday. So he hated his birthdays because it was a constant reminder of his mortality. It was a constant reminder that he was running out of time to accomplish everything he wanted to. But now facing 40, I've got no fear. I should say no fear, but I have a whole lot less fear. I'm totally cool not accomplishing everything on my list. I'm totally cool saying no to more things than I say yes to. Right. Because I know I'm going to have forever to enjoy God and his good gifts and his good works forever. For me.
- [34:47]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. That's a level of trust and faith there that really changes the amount that you feel swamped and hustling. Okay, all right, so here's something really interesting. Besides the fact that you go to bed at 8:45 next, you consume virtually zero news.
- [35:03]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, yeah, it's good.
- [35:06]
Jenny Eric
All right.
- [35:06]
Jordan Rayner
Is it?
- [35:07]
Jenny Eric
I don't know. I mean. Well, I had read a book that was talking about how it was like the history of technology, and it was talking about how at. At one point they came up with the telegr. And then you could know, you know, if you live in Michigan, you can know what's going on in Tampa, you can know what's going on in Texas. But before that, you couldn't. All information was local and it was just what was happening around you. And the book was talking about, like, just because you can, should. You should, you know, everything that's going on around you. And so this takes that situation of telegrams, you know, to skyrocketed degree with, well, now there's information glut, but then there's also fake information or there will be, because you can kind of create anything. So at some point you decided, even though when you were young, you were like, I want to know everything that's going on. I'm addicted to noise, basically. I want to, like, read the newspapers. I'm cutting out pictures of politicians. I'm like, super into all this. And at some point you decide, I'm going to set this aside. And you're like, if anything big happens, someone else is going to tell me.
- [36:11]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. And this is what I wish somebody had told me way sooner. So again, I'm trying to model everything in my life after my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And when I look at the gospel biographies, the first thing that's clear is that Jesus spent a lot of time in prayer. The second thing is that Jesus spent a lot of time in lonely places where he was praying, but also I think, where he was just thinking, trying to be creative. Jesus was a master of dissenting from the kingdom of noise and decide the cliche of all cliches. You and I are living at a time of unprecedented noise. And yes, of course I'm referring to the external noise created by nonstop news and social media and digital devices. But primarily what I'm concerned with is what all of that external noise creates, namely this internal noise that blocks my ability to hear my own thoughts, to be creative, and most importantly, to listen to the voice of God. And so one practical way that I am trying to descent for the kingdom of Noise is about 10 years ago I decided, you know what, I'm gonna let my friends curate the news for me. And and now since updates since I read the book, I also consume 0 social media content anymore. So if something's happened in the world, my friends are going to tell me about it. And why did I do this? I did this because one day, by God's grace, about a decade ago, I woke up and realized two things. Number one, 99.9 of the content on news services and social media websites is totally irrelevant to my life.
- [37:36]
Jenny Eric
Yes, totally. Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [37:39]
Jordan Rayner
Number two, the news was making me an angry and bitter person.
- [37:46]
Sponsor/Ad Host
I think one of the hardest parts of parenting today is that everybody feels pulled in different directions all the time. Activities, appointments, work schedules, chores, grocery lists. It's easy to feel like your family is constantly reacting instead of moving together. That's honestly why I've loved having the Skylight Calendar in our home. Instead of schedules being scattered across text and random notes, everything is now centralized in one simple visual system the whole family can use. Skylight Calendar syncs seamlessly with Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook, and more. And you can customize it with daily, weekly, or monthly planning views. But my favorite feature is probably the Tasks section. It gives kids ownership over routines and responsibilities in a way that actually motivates them. Homework, brushing teeth, chores. It turns all these daily reminders into something visual and rewarding. And when everybody can clearly see what's expected of them, there's less friction in the home home, less confusion, and less stress. Skylight Calendar is designed to bring families together for more time. And honestly, that's something every family could use more of. And your happiness is Skylight's happiness. So if in four months you are not 100 thrilled with your purchase, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Families are better when they're working together. Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendars by going to myskylate.com 1000hours go to myskylate.com 1000 hours for $30 off your 15 inch calendar. That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L I G H T.com 1000hours
- [39:10]
Jordan Rayner
it was not causing me to love my neighbor as myself. Are you freaking kidding me? It was causing me to want to Murder my neighbor in my heart. Right. Social media and news services are not designed to inform. They are designed to enrage. And so I quit cold turkey 10 years ago. You know what happened when I quit it? Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing negative. At least what did happen was my friend started telling me about what I care about. So I live in Florida, right?
- [39:37]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [39:37]
Jordan Rayner
Hurricanes are pretty important. I hear about every hurricane a week before it happens. I hear about trends within my industry. I hear about every rumor of a West Wing reunion because I'm a West Wing super fan, right? Like, I hear about all this stuff because my friends voluntarily tell me about it. I use this analogy. I don't think I included this in the book, but I'm like. Like, it's kind of like when you were in college and you went to an all you can eat buffet with your. Your buddy, and your buddy was really cheap and didn't want to pay for it. And so he's like, hey, hey, when you're up at the buffet, will you bring me back some banana pudding? And you did. That's what's happening here. My friends are bringing me the banana pudding. But in the meantime, I don't have to spend a second in the soul sucking quicksand that is news and social media. And so I would challenge you if you're. If you're feeling convicted right now. You're like, oh, gosh, I need to try this. Randy Alcorn says, nothing is more fleeting than the moment of conviction. So right now, delete every news and social media app on your phone for a week. Design as an experiment, see what you miss seven days from now. Here's what I can promise you. Number one, you ain't gonna miss anything that actually matters. Number two, you're gonna be a whole lot stressed. Number three, you're gonna have a whole lot more time to think and be creative and listen to the voice of God in the model of your redeemer.
- [40:52]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. You voluntarily stop drowning in other people's opinions and in all of this information. And it's good to know the history. I think it, like, didn't used to be like this. People used to have newspapers. That's one of the things you talk about. Subscribe to something that's finite, then.
- [41:08]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah.
- [41:08]
Jenny Eric
Has an actual end. It doesn't have to be this limitless situation. It is interesting, too, that the noise. So we talk about the noise of all the information. Then there's the internal noise. And this is now translating into these data centers, which are actual noise. And there's A lot. I've read other books long before we heard about these data centers that we're talking about. Even if you live in flight paths of planes and things like that, it can affect your health. It's like this ambient noise. Your body responds to it, and so it all coincides and good to know about. So, okay, you will consume virtually no, no news. And here you are.
- [41:45]
Jordan Rayner
I'm a weirdo, Ginny. This is what you're learning. Well, look at all the intentional weirdo.
- [41:51]
Jenny Eric
Yeah, I think. Well, I think you're intentional. You intentionally live like people used to live. They went to bed earlier because they didn't have electricity. You know, they weren't consuming all of this because it wasn't available. Let's talk about the crevices of your day. So this is also something that's changed. I mean, there was a lot of crevices up until the, you know, the 2000s. Anytime you're in the car, anytime. Because you can't carry your devices with you. So up until the BlackBerry came. So you talk about the skill of being bored. Start by refusing to fill the cracks and crevices of your day with noise. And you say your favorite TV show wouldn't exist if it weren't for boredom.
- [42:26]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people, you know, a fraction of our audience just loved what I said about letting your friends curate the news for you. The vast majority of our listeners are like, that's insane. I can't do that. So here's a much less extreme way to descend from the kingdom of noise. Just stop filling the crevices of your day with noise. And what I mean by crevices are those slivers of time you have the three minutes in which you're waiting for the kids to get off the bus, the seven minutes that you have to drive to the grocery store. Refuse to press play on the podcast. No offense, Jenny. I would tell people, don't even press play on my own podcast. Don't press play on the podcast. Don't press playing the music. Just sit there and be bored. And yeah, this is responsible for my all time favorite TV show, the West Wing by Aaron Sorkin. Sorkin was in Manhattan at a buddy's apartment. He was bored. He had nothing to do. There was no TV in the apartment, but there was a typewriter and he just started typing his first script. What would become. Oh, my gosh, I'm blanking on it. Tom Cruise, Jack Nicholson,
- [43:25]
Jenny Eric
I don't know.
- [43:26]
Jordan Rayner
You can't handle the truth. How do I not know the name of this movie. But this launches career that eventually led to the West Wing Boredom. Just sitting there with a typewriter.
- [43:34]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [43:35]
Jordan Rayner
Being led to create something. Nothing. Right. And man, I just find that the more that I am bored, the better ideas. I I'll share an example from yesterday. I had a call. I was in the car, got in the car at 4:30, had a call, thought I was gonna go till 5:00 when I was gonna arrive at my destination. Call ended 20 minutes early. I 20 minutes of the car. I did not press play. I just thought and I had. The Lord gave me, I believe one of the most creative game changing ideas of my business that I've had probably in 2000 years to the point where it totally reoriented today. I've been on calls trying to raise a bunch of money to hire this a list Christian influencer to come join my team. All because of boredom yesterday. Stop filling the crevices of your day with your noise and see what the Lord does with that silence.
- [44:24]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. Okay. Talk about then adding on some walking. You say if there this was someone else that said it. Pastor Mark Buchanan, if there is a physical discipline for Christianity, it is walking. Walking.
- [44:34]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, it's fascinating. Most religions do have a corresponding physical discipline. We don't think that Christianity does, but I would argue it's walking. That's what God did with Adam and Eve in the cool of the garden. Right. And so I Mark Buchanan calls, got the three mile an hour God, which I really, I really love. And yeah, I find that walking is a great way to descent for the kingdom of noise. Especially when I don't bring my phone with me on that walk or if I do keep it in my pocket, it I. People ask me all the time, how do you deal with writer's block? Like yeah, if I get to 15 minutes at my laptop but I can't solve the problem, I go for a walk and 99 out of a hundred times it solves it. Right. I swear I write more with my feet than I do with my fingers anymore because I get my most creative ideas when I'm walking. So if you're looking for some creativity and what you're writing or creating or working on or lessons, plan, lesson plans, you're designed for your kids. Take more walks outside.
- [45:28]
Jenny Eric
Outside.
- [45:28]
Jordan Rayner
Thousand hours outside.
- [45:29]
Jenny Eric
There we go. There we go. All right, one last thing I wanted to bring up about this book and then we can talk about some of the kids books and what else you have to offer. But the concept of if thinking about if your email was like an actual male person.
- [45:44]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, my gosh, Jenny.
- [45:45]
Jenny Eric
It's a great thought.
- [45:46]
Jordan Rayner
So, so I, I, I, I asked the reader to imagine that the, that the mailman has started showing up at your house 200 times a day. Day. Right. But he doesn't stay at the curb. You know where this is going, listener. He gets up, he rings the doorbell, and you actually get up from whatever you're doing 200 times to answer the door. You take the envelope, maybe open it, maybe you don't. But at a minimum, you steal a glance at who it's from and what the contents might contain. If that was happening to any of our listeners, Jenny, this would not be a podcast. This would be an intervention. We would have that listener right there in your studio and beg them to change their crazy, crazy ways. And while I'm confident none of our listeners are doing this literally, I would bet a lot of money that the vast majority of our listeners are cognitively doing this all day, every day with digital messages, which is certifiably insane. When we look at the Gospel biographies, yes, there are times when Jesus welcomed distractions, but there are many other times when he ignored them, when he accepted his uni presence and the ability to be free, be fully present with one person or task at a time so that he could serve them well. There's a scene in Mark where it says that Jesus disciples left Galilee and Jesus, quote, did not want anyone to know where they were because he was teaching his disciples. End quote. That is the first century equivalent of the do not disturb feature on your iPhone, Right? Jesus is putting up do not disturb disturbed. And so, man, I, I just. It is crazy town to me that we have come to believe that to live in 2026 requires that we be constantly available to everybody, including telemarketers. That's crazy. That is blocking us from doing the work God created us to do. Disciple in our kids, loving our spouses, doing the work that he's called us to do. Whatever. So you take control over when you check your messages. Why is the mailman in charge of when you are checking your text and your emails? That's crazy. You decide, right? Maybe you decide. All right, from now on, it's going to be 10:00am, 12:00pm, 2:00pm whatever. You determine those times. Tell your VIPs in your life how they can access you outside of those times. If you turn your phone on. Do not disturb. They can still call and get through. They can still call it through if they really need you. Train them. Tell them, hey, here's What I'm doing from now on, I'm trying to be more focused with the kids at XYZ Times. But if you need me more urgently, don't text me, don't DM me, don't send me a message in Facebook messenger. But if you call me on my cell, I'll answer, That's it. And you're going to be in a much better place to do your most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others.
- [48:26]
Jenny Eric
And people don't like to call, so then they're really going to have to consider do it or not. They'll never do it.
- [48:31]
Jordan Rayner
They'll never do it. But if it's urgent enough, they will.
- [48:33]
Jenny Eric
You had a statistic in the book, it's called redeeming your time, that a quarter of people feel obligated to answer messages immediately. I was like, oh, that's a lot of people. I don't feel obligated to answer messages at all.
- [48:46]
Jordan Rayner
Praise the Lord.
- [48:48]
Jenny Eric
But I can't see it with kids. You know, that becomes part of their culture. And obviously it's for adults, too. What would you say to the person who has that? I'm like, I don't even know where the obligation comes from. But they feel like I have. I have to respond.
- [49:00]
Jordan Rayner
I would say this. If that obligation doesn't come from the Lord, it's not an obligation, it's a suggestion. And I see no obligation in scripture that says thou shalt respond to every text message within 10 minutes of thou receiving it. Right. It's not there. I've checked. Right. All the translations. I've checked.
- [49:17]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Jordan Rayner
There's no obligation there. But here's the thing. We. We feel the pressure because we want to serve people we do want to be available for. It's a good motive that leads us to do this.
- [49:26]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [49:27]
Jordan Rayner
Here's what I would challenge you, though. You cannot do your best work of discipling your kids and focusing on the work God created you to do with constant distraction. You know that. You know that, right?
- [49:38]
Jenny Eric
Yeah.
- [49:38]
Jordan Rayner
And so what are you gonna do about it? It's gonna require you doing something hard. I just propose just one solution. I go into a lot more detail about it inside the book, but take control over when you check your incoming messages. It's not selfish to ignore those people because you're doing it so that you could show up more fully for the people, the human beings who are actually embodied right there in front of you. Your kids, your spouse, your co workers, etc.
- [50:04]
Jenny Eric
There was like a quote in here I can't remember who it was from, but they were like, Jesus would be getting the Most emails.
- [50:10]
Jordan Rayner
Yes, 100. 100. And yet he often withdrew to lonely and solitary places and ignored all of those quote, unquote obligations.
- [50:20]
Jenny Eric
Yeah, the most, you know, requests for keynotes.
- [50:23]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [50:24]
Jenny Eric
That type of stuff. And then you do talk about this phrase, fake productivity, which I guess as a mom, I'm like. I'm like, well, I mean, everything you. I do is like, you got to be like, like the top productivity, you know, possible to make the best use of time. But it is interesting to live in a world where especially like if you're in an office environment, you can kind of fake it.
- [50:47]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And this is. It is way easier to sit at my desk and reactively respond to emails and text messages all day than it is to put my phone on, do not disturb, shut down my email and do deep, deep work to create something great in the world. It's harder right now if you're in customer service, of course you're gonna be responding to the phones all day. Right. There's exceptions to this, but by and large.
- [51:10]
Jenny Eric
But that is real productivity.
- [51:12]
Jordan Rayner
Correct. That's real product. That's exactly right, Jenny. Right. The difference is, are we really being productive or we be busy? Most people are busy. They're not productive.
- [51:21]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. Okay, let's talk about these other books. So we've talked today some and we just scratched the surface, but people can check this out. Redeeming your time. Seven principle. Seven Biblical Principles for being Purposeful, Present and Wildly Productive. Also, if you are a course type person, this comes as a course as well. On your website, which is jordanrayner.com I'll make sure. I'll put the link in the show notes. But you have so many other books. Five Year Christians. Can you tell us about the Five Year Christians? The Sacredness of Secular Work. The Word Before Work and Called to Create. And then I want to talk about the kids books.
- [51:54]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, man. I'll give you the quick gist of it. Everything that I do do, everything that I'm writing is helping you and me and our kids see how much God delights in their work and not just the evangelism they do within their work. So that's the heart behind the Sacredness Secular work. Five Mere Christians, the Word before all of those books and this trilogy of kids books that we're about to complete. The Creator in you, the Royal in you, and the Spirit in you.
- [52:20]
Sponsor/Ad Host
Yes.
- [52:21]
Jenny Eric
Okay. The one I have is the Spirit in you. And it is dedicated to a Ginny.
- [52:25]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. Which is dedicated to Jenny.
- [52:27]
Jenny Eric
Yeah. And a Molly and a Lily. But I'm like, my name is pretty uncommon. I don't see in print very much.
- [52:31]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah.
- [52:32]
Jenny Eric
So I was like, oh, that's kind of cool.
- [52:34]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. These are the daughters of our best friends, and they're almost like adopted daughters to us. So that's. That's why I dedicated to them.
- [52:42]
Jenny Eric
I love that. Okay, so the one I have is the Spirit in you, but you also have the royal in you and the Creator in you. At what point in your journey did you decide to write kids books?
- [52:51]
Sponsor/Ad Host
These are.
- [52:51]
Jenny Eric
Are illustrated beautifully with obviously beautiful biblical concepts for kids.
- [52:55]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah. Yeah. So after my first book called To Create, which is kind of the essence of this faith of work message, I was trying to figure out, man, how do I communicate this to my kids? Because every kid's book I was buying for my. My little ones at the time told them that the sixth day of Genesis 1 was the end of creation. Not according to Genesis 1:26 28, where God created us in his image. Why? To create and work. We are the succession plan. We are carrying on the family business of filling the earth with cultural goods. Right. And so that's what the Creator in you is all about. It's this beautiful artistic representation of Genesis 1 and 2, helping kids see that the sixth day was just the beginning. Because that's when God made you to look like him, to act and work and create with it. Because while in six days God created a lot, there are so many things they simply did not. The Royal in you is the second book in this trilogy, Gospel Coalition's book of the year a couple of years ago. It's a poetic. It's a poetic interpretation of Revelation 21 and 22, the opposite bookend of scripture, showing that heaven on earth is just the beginning. Right. We were talking about this a few minutes ago because God created us to reign and work with him free from the curse of sin. And then this last book in the trilogy is called the Spirit in you. And it is an exposition of Ephesians 4, 28 through 10, the path to and the purpose of salvation. So Ephesians 2:8 through 9 makes it very clear that it is by grace we have been saved through faith, not by works, period. Full stop. So we have not been saved by our works, but verse 10, the purpose of salvation. Why have we been saved? For the good works that God has prepared in advance for us to do. Which is what? Go back to Genesis 1 fill the earth, subdue it and rule it as the lost princes and princesses of the kingdom of God. I'll read you a little excerpt from the Spirit in you after I explain the path to salvation. It says, and now Jesus offers forgiveness of sins. The way back to God from wherever you've been this way can't be bought like a toy at the store or earned through good things like being kind to the poor. You just must confess and admit that you've sinned and that Jesus alone can make you right again. Then declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, who is worthy of being obeyed and adored. Once you do that, that you'll be with God forever. At your church, on a plane, whenever, wherever. How is that possible? How can it be true? God sends his holy Spirit to live inside you. And now you might think that our story is ending, but in fact, this is just the beginning. Because while your good works did nothing to save you, they are what God's spirit gives you power to do. And then the back half of the book is just explaining what are all those good works. It's doing homework and chores in ways that honor, honor our Lord, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all of these different ways that we can glorify God as kids doing homework, chores, sports, etc. Etc.
- [55:52]
Sponsor/Ad Host
They're beautifully illustrated.
- [55:54]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, I literally, I told Random as we started working on this book, we failed. If this does not feel like a Pixar movie or an episode of Bluey that makes 5 year olds smile and 55 year olds weep, I literally have the artwork from this book hanging in my house because it's meant to be epic. It's meant to make the 55 year old emotional. And that's what this trilogy of books does, thanks to my illustration partner, Jonathan
- [56:19]
Jenny Eric
Voss, who's, yeah, he's done phenomenal. Like this page is just the kids doing the chores and like the dog and I mean it's just really a stunning, stunningly visual book. And then obviously there's a picture where they're like seeing the, the animals, like they're, you know, looking at a. It almost looks like a, like at a zoo or.
- [56:39]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like dinosaur crazy looking thing.
- [56:41]
Jenny Eric
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [56:42]
Jordan Rayner
Super cool.
- [56:43]
Jenny Eric
You know, kids out playing ball in the park and the dog, you know, the dogs in most of the pictures. So there's a beautiful set of books. So this one I have, like I said, it's called the Spirit in you, but there's also the royal in you and the Creator. And you can tell us about your podcast.
- [56:54]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, sure. We actually paused it after 2 million downloads and a thousand reviews at 5.0 stars. We were very proud of it. We paused it because, man, Jenny, I'm increasingly facing my finitude. I'm increasingly getting at peace with those unfinished symphonies. And so we walked away from it, even though people told us we were crazy. But it's still there for you to listen to. It's called the Mere Christian Podcast.
- [57:17]
Jenny Eric
I mean, it's always there.
- [57:18]
Jordan Rayner
It's always there. It's evergreen. So Mere Christians is my term to describe believers who are not pastors and religious professionals. So, you know, 99.9% of us, it's talking about how to glorify God in our work in the world. We've had kids, Candace, camera beret on to talk about this in the context of acting. We've had Kevin Ola Sola, the beatboxer for the Pentatonix. We've had Nate Bragazzi's dad, Steven, who's a professional musician, magician, come in and talk about how God delights in magic. Some incredible guests talk about how they're glorifying God in their seemingly secular but deeply sacred work.
- [57:54]
Jenny Eric
Okay. Can you imagine, like, to be Nate Bargettzi's dad?
- [57:58]
Jordan Rayner
Oh, my gosh. It's my favorite, favorite episode. Episode. It's probably my favorite episode. He's become a good friend after that. A beautiful, beautiful guy.
- [58:08]
Jenny Eric
I. I love that because, you know, it's like in life, you, you know, you. You strive for so many things and, you know, they say, like, maybe the best thing isn't going to be something you do, but someone you raise. So then I actually think that would be like the. If you think about your own kids, like, if your kids are younger, like, if somebody one day introduced me as, like, Jackson Yurich's mom.
- [58:29]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah.
- [58:29]
Jenny Eric
I'll be like, oh, yeah, I've hit the big time. Like my kid. Yeah, that's a hundred percent Nate Bargassi's dad. That's fantastic. He's got like a whole new movie coming out. I mean. Yeah, that guy is everywhere. Actually, we. If we ever fly into Tennessee, in the airport, there's like, voice. They have like a voice loop of his and he's like, it's Nate Bargazzi. Welcome to Franklin. Or wait, whatever the. Wherever the national. Wherever the airport is. So, you know, that guy has, Has. Has gone everywhere. But I know he's put in the time. So anyway, this has been a fantastic conversation. And I know you have your new book coming out in October it's actually already available for pre order. It's called redeeming your goals. Jordan, thank you so much for being here. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was outside?
- [59:13]
Jordan Rayner
Yeah, man. Gosh, I have so many. I grew up on a lake, and I just have so many memories playing basketball and in the water, we had a basketball hoop hanging in the lake. So if the lake was low enough, we could actually shoot some hoops. And just playing out there with my dad and my brother, that's one of my fondest memories as a kid. I loved it.
- [59:33]
Jenny Eric
Oh, it's so fun. It's so fun. Jordan, thanks for all this work that you're doing, and thanks for spending this time with us today.
- [59:38]
Jordan Rayner
Thank you. Jenny.