← The Alisa Childers Podcast
The Alisa Childers Podcast
#169 Masculinity and Femininity: Social Constructs or God’s Design? With Kyle Thompson
01:00:41
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- [00:00]
Kyle Thompson
And we've never seen an example of a stronger, more perfect man than Jesus. But we don't get that presented in the church. We get Jesus meek and mild, but we don't understand that meekness, in terms of the scriptural definition is having a tremendous amount of strength under voluntary control. And even more specifically, a war horse that is meeked still has all of its power, but it's under the control of the rider. And so our churches should be teaching young men especially to have tremendous amounts of strength, but have it bridled by the truth of the gospel.
- [00:49]
Alisa Childers
Welcome to the Alisa Childers Podcast, where we equip Christians to identify the core beliefs of historic Christianity, discern its counterfeits, and proclaim the gospel with clarity, kindness, and truth. Today we're going to be talking about femininity and masculinity. Are these just social constructs that are made up by culture, or are they real categories that correspond to who we are as humans and who we are in Christ? Well, today we're going to talk about how topics like abortion, pornography, pacifism, gender roles, toxic masculinity, boyfriend, Jesus songs, how all of these play into our theology. We're going to hit all the hot button topics today. My guest today is Kyle Thompson of the Undaunted Light. This is a podcast for men. I love the tagline. It's equipping men to push back darkness. Kyle, welcome. So glad you could join.
- [01:40]
Kyle Thompson
I'm happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
- [01:43]
Alisa Childers
All right, well, I wanna start just by hearing a little bit about your story. You have a podcast that's sort of like in your face in a good way. I think it's for men. So how did you become a Christian? Did you grow up in a Christian home? And then what led you to have this heart, to reach a generation of men for Christ?
- [02:02]
Kyle Thompson
Yeah, I'll give you the short version of the story, but I became a Christian as a 10th grader. And the thing about it was, is as I'm learning to become a man, I'm learning what it means to be a Christian as well. And the dichotomy I had at the time, Elisa was okay, all the manly men were outside the church doing man stuff, and all the godly men were inside the church wearing their, you know, perfectly pleated pants, tucked, you know, you know, their shirt tucked into their khakis, the whole thing. And like, that's was. Was kind of the way I thought about it. And that really carried on into my 20s. And then I started to notice that I wasn't the only guy that thought that. There were a lot of guys that thought, okay, the godly men and the manly men are not the same men. Those are. Those are separate beings entirely. And so the more I learned and the more I read, I realized that obviously that wasn't the case, But I had been presented this, you know, this horrible version of Jesus, that he was this Jesus, meek and mild, this guy that was just concerned about your feelings and how cute you looked in your tunic that day. And, you know, it wasn't until I really dug into the gosp gospels for myself that I was like, man, Jesus was an aggressive Middle Eastern Jew. And, man, I'm not getting any of the line of Judah from any of my pastors. I'm only getting Lamb of God, right? And you can't understand the totality of Jesus unless you understand all parts of Jesus, right? He's fully grace and truth, not just one or the other. And so I, I found that to be inappropriate that a lot of guys that were rougher around the edges. So think your construction worker, your, you know, military or law enforcement officer, your MMA fighter. Those guys were missing out on Jesus because they would walk into his church and see a bunch of kind of doughy, soft looking guys and be like, this isn't really my scene. I'm gonna go do some man stuff, right? And so that, that was kind of the thing that I started to work with some men's ministries. I started. Started some men's ministries to try to counteract that, because I also noticed that most men's ministries are just women's ministries repackaged for men, right? So it's the same content, but as opposed to doily patterns and flowers on the COVID it's, you know, wood and metal and nails and dirt and it's. But it's the same content, right? So it all started with a devotional that I put on the YouVersion Bible app. It did incredibly well. At one point, it was the second most read men's devotional on the YouVersion Bible app. And it was only behind Craig Rochelle and his church, you know, founded the app. So I think he gets all the marketing positioning he wants. And then that really led to undaunted life. And yeah, you know, equipping men to push back darkness, that's something that I think the church has done a very, very poor job of because, you know, to a certain degree, they might be helping exegete some scripture, but they're not helping men apply that to the darkness. That we see in our world.
- [04:34]
Alisa Childers
You seem to be unafraid to touch any topic. You have episodes on your podcast about toxic masculinity, pornography, patriarchy, all sorts of things. Also equipping men. I wonder too. You know, you're talking about the feminized version of Jesus. I'm a little older than you, but growing up in the 80s, there was this miniseries, I don't know if you remember this, but Jesus of Nazareth, it was called. Oh, yeah. And there was a lot of really, I mean, it was very, actually very formative for me as a young child. I had to sort of grow up and compare that Jesus with the Bible to get rid of some of the wrong ideas about him. But. So there was definitely some good things about that. But one of the things that is so stark to me now when I look back on it, is that you have Jesus, who's just this real waifish, kind of feminine, girly man with blue eyes and like super white skin. And it's just like, you know, no wonder people have this sort of distorted view of Jesus. Did you think that maybe some more recent portrayals are better or.
- [05:35]
Kyle Thompson
Well, Elisa, I don't know if you know this, but most Middle Eastern Jews look like Danish models with blue eyes. I don't know if you knew that.
- [05:41]
Alisa Childers
And like, when he's a kid, they're sparkling and shining.
- [05:44]
Kyle Thompson
Oh my gosh, so bad, so ratchet. But like, that's the thing is I remember around the time I kind of was starting Undaunted Life or I was having a lot of these thoughts, there was the, what was a History Channel or Nat Geo did that Jesus series. And it was a very good looking white guy that played Jesus. And I remember being so excited for the, the temple scene of Jesus turning over the tables, because that's my favorite, you know, story in, in the entirety of scripture, certainly in the gospels. And it was this almost all shucks approach that the actor did. He's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I have to turn over all these tables. And it's hurting my feelings. And it's like, nope, nope. That was an act of premeditated aggression. The scripture tells us that he went, made a whip of chords and came back. So he left, created a whip out of stuff, and then came back and he did premeditated, righteous, intimidating aggression on an entire group of people. And we have no indication that they tried to stop him. Because the thing is, is if, for most people's places of business, if a guy walked in with a whip of Cord to start whipping people if there's dudes like me in there. This is what I've been training my whole life for. Like, this is, like, the most exciting thing that could possibly happen. But imagine what someone would have to look like, the look they'd have to have in their sprinkly blue eyes for you to think to yourself, whoa, I'm not going anywhere near this guy. I'm getting my, you know, my doves and my everything else, and I'm getting the heck out of here. But again, I think it's done men no favors because men love strength. We are attracted to strength. That's why when you read any of these war memoirs of these great generals or these great, you know, war heroes or warrior chiefs or something like that, the men will bend over backwards and break themselves into pieces to follow a strong man. And we've never seen an example of a stronger, more perfect man than Jesus. But we don't get that presented in the church. We get Jesus meek and mild, but we don't understand that meekness, in terms of the scriptural definition, is having a tremendous amount of strength under voluntary control. And even more specifically, a war horse that is meeked still has all of its power, but it's under the control of the writer. And so our churches should be teaching young men especially to have tremendous amounts of strength, but have it bridled by the truth of the gospel.
- [07:56]
Alisa Childers
Oh, I love it. So let's talk about masculinity and femininity, because these are sort of terms that are innate in people, right? This isn't something that you can. That. That, I don't know, it's like they're almost abstract in a sense. So what do you. You know, a lot of times people think of masculinity or femininity and they think, oh, well, masculinity means, you know, hammering nails and boards in the backyard or something like that. And femininity means wearing an apron and cooking a meal or something. What is masculinity and femininity? And why do you think it's important that we talk about those things and relate them with who we are as Christians?
- [08:37]
Kyle Thompson
Yeah, it's a good question, but it's a question that would have not have made sense a hundred years ago. I think because we have these cultural discussions about something that is innate, and when something's innate, you typically don't have to discuss it very much. Like an innate fact would be if you and I were to walk outside of our homes right now and jump in the air. We know that we're not going to float off into the ether, right? Because gravity is a constant. We know that to be true. We don't have to spend a lot of time talking about it, right? We don't have to spend a lot of time theorizing and thinking about it. But we're in this cultural moment where we can't even define what a man or a woman is. And so the, the, the, the conversation in and of itself is breaking down entirely around us, and it's breaking down around our heads. But specifically that the entire worldview crumbles for most people because they don't have a good example that maybe they've seen. And so they're using personal anecdotes from their life of a man that was culturally masculine, right? Drinks beer, eats beef jerky, chases women, drives four wheel drive trucks, and all those different things. And they were hurt by a guy like that. And so their idea is like, okay, you know what we need to do? We need to change masculinity. Not bridle it, not point it in a better direction. We need to change it. But the thing about it, Elisa, is when things are dangerous, all that means is that we need to put it in the hands of people that know how to use it. So guns are dangerous, right? If they're in the hands of somebody that wants to do evil and just destroy things and destroy people. So that's why we train people to put it in the hands of people that are going to use it responsibly, like responsible gun owners, law enforcement officers, military folks and, and that type of a thing. Same thing with medicine. You know, just let anybody be a pharmacist. You got to go to school for that. You have to, you know, protect the populace from themselves, from maybe taking pills that, that would, that would hurt them. The same thing is true with masculinity, is we're trying to get rid of it as opposed to bridling it, as opposed to helping our young men be initiated into a better version of manhood. But again, the entire discussion, I find it to be incredibly silly because it comes down into, into gender roles. And I know you've talked about this a lot, so I don't want to steal any of your thunder, but part of the reason why we're having this discussion is first, second and third wave feminism. And now we're getting into fourth wave feminism because we're trying to level the playing field. But that's not actually the goal. The goal is to make men and women the Same. And the thing about it is, is there's no worse version of a man than a female trying to be a man. And the same is true in the opposite. There's no worse version of a woman than a man that's trying to be a woman. Right. And so it's not embracing the roles that we have. It's falling for this, you know, feminist, postmodern concept that somehow there's something broken in men or broken in how we view feminine. So we need to change it. Why? Because we went to college and read a bunch of books or something like that?
- [11:20]
Alisa Childers
Well, yeah. And like you say, so much of this is so instinctive. It naturally. But like you said, we're fighting against it. We're trying to change it. I have a whole chapter in my new book, Live youe Truth and Other Lies About. You know, we're just talking about cultural lies. And one of the cultural lies that I list in the book is that girl power is real power. You know, the way we talk about girl power. And it's scary to me, raising both a son and a daughter in this culture that's really telling my daughter, for you to be good, for you to be excellent, you basically need to be a guy. And the same culture, though, is telling my son that you being you and you doing things boys do means you're toxic. It means that if I raise my son to open a door for a woman in a culture where that's gonna be. The woman's trained to think that that means he thinks she's not capable of opening the door for herself. Which I laugh because it's so silly, right? Cause I don't know one man who would pull out a chair for a woman or open a door for a woman who thinks that she can't do those things for herself. And it's scary to me, too, because I don't know if you've observed this, but one phenomenon that I've observed a lot is recently in movies and television, where it's like, you'll have the girl who's 110 pounds soaking wet, and she can not only beat up any guy, but it's not a real fight until the girl comes to fight the guys. The guys can fight each other, and it's just sort of like, whatever. But then the girl enters the room, and it's like, oh, boy, now it's a fight. But, you know, then another girl enters the room and fights the first girl. Now, this is the real fight. And it's so silly to me because. And the One thing I tell my daughter is if we see something like that, I'll point out that girl would be dead right now if this was a real situation. And this is why this is scary, because I think it trains boys to say, well, we're all the same. So you know, my superior strength, which, I mean, I don't know how anyone can deny that on average, the typical man is stronger than the average girl. And so that should signal men to, like you say, bridle that strength, use that strength to protect in whatever, however that looks. But I'm rambling, I don't know. Do you have thoughts on that?
- [13:35]
Kyle Thompson
Absolutely. So we have this cultural thing. So yes, I totally agree with you. We're setting women up to think that, oh, they can do that. Like the thing about it is the bones in your hand are incredibly brittle. And so when you punch a hard thing like someone's skull, you can break your hand really easily. And women's hands and their bones and their hands are weaker on average than a male's is. And so this idea that this 110 pound woman is just going to beat up this, you know, square jawed, 210 pound freak piece, it's not realistic. And I see the same thing in self defense scenarios. You have these women that are being sold these 400, you know, three day courses over the weekend. Come learn how to defend yourself. I'm like, I am so sorry. Like that's not going to work. It's not going to work on an untrained dude of any size. I'm sorry, like this kick him in the kneecap nonsense and like these random little movements, it's not going to work. But I do want to go to something culturally with manhood, our culture, Elisa is selective in what they deem to be toxic. Okay? So you know the chivalry thing, teaching a little kid to do those things, ah, you know, that's teaching them to be toxic or whatever, which by the way, I have two sons and they are going to be the most toxic little boys that you've ever seen. Based on what? I mean, to be masculine, right? They are going to open doors for ladies. They're going to stand up when their mama comes to the table. They are going to respect women, they are going to protect women. I'm so sorry if that makes you offended. But there was back in, I forget what year it was, but there was the shooting in Aurora, Colorado at the movie theater at the premiere of the Batman movie. I remember there were three young men that were there with their Girlfriends. I always get a little choked up describing the story. They're there with their girlfriends, not their wives, not their sisters, not their mothers. And when the shooting started, all three of these men, these young men, covered the bodies of their girlfriends with their bodies, and all of them died, okay? No one called these young men toxic. No one said, hey, those bullets were equal opportunity bullets. You should have let those women have the right to die just like all those other people. No one said that, interestingly enough. But around that same time, there was some, like, little cruise ship that was like a smaller cruise ship that was off the coast of Ivilla, I believe it was Italy. I'm getting some of the details mixed up, but the cruise ship was going down in kind of a Titanic situation. They didn't have enough lifeboats for everybody on board. And so there were reports at the time that women and children drowned because men were throwing them out of the lifeboats to save themselves. Exactly. Your natural reaction is the right one. And they were castigated internationally as cowardly weaklings. So we're very selective about it, right? Because it's always feminism and, you know, my body, my choice and all this other stuff until the. The building's on fire and it's women and children first. And, you know, comedians have made the joke before. All of a sudden these feminists, you know, twirl their hair into pigtails and they're like, oh, I'm just a girl, like, let me out first, kind of a thing like, hey, you're supposed to stay here and die, man. So it's like, all of a sudden, they get really toxic themselves. So there's a lot of examples from that. But the main thing is we're selective. Our culture is stupid, and we make these selective decisions about when it's appropriate to be toxically masculine.
- [16:33]
Alisa Childers
I was thinking about that recently, too, about the selective nature of it, because two movies that I've just recently, I honestly can't think of the name of one of them. It was a western, and it was recent. It had big stars in it, and it was just a story of honor. It was about tracking down the bad guys, making things right, giving your life for people, protecting the town. And our culture basically condemns these things, yet pays millions of dollars to go watch it in the movie theater. One movie. I do. I do. I actually want to recommend this movie. I never recommend movies, but it's called Thirteen Lives. Have you seen it?
- [17:11]
Kyle Thompson
No, I have not.
- [17:12]
Alisa Childers
So it's. Ron Howard directed it. It's on Amazon prime right now. And it's the story of the cave divers who went in and saved the soccer team that got trapped in the cave in Thailand a couple years ago, I believe. And it's. My husband and I were watching it, and the whole time my husband's like, man, that toxic masculinity is just going in there and saving everybody. But it's like this powerful movie, very powerful movie that describes these men who went in and risked their lives every time they did that five to seven hour dive to go into the cave and figuring out how to get these kids out. Amazingly inspiring story. But it's like we condemn that theoretically, but we pay millions to go watch it in theaters.
- [17:55]
Kyle Thompson
Well, there's another interesting point to that. So let's say we were just secular humanists, right? We're all just, you know, goo that evolved into fish, that evolved into chimps, that evolved into people or whatever, right? Highly evolved monkeys that wear pants. And this is gonna be a little crass for some people, but a womb, Elisa, is infinitely more valuable than sperm is. And so the, the example that I use to describe this is like, let's say you've got a village of a hundred people and on the other side of the hill there's another village of 100 people. Well, if one side goes over to the other side and let's say it's 50 women and 50 men, this doesn't make sense, but let's say that happened. Let's say you killed all the men except one, and you left all the women. That people group will survive because that one man, although he will be busy, he will be able to make sure that that people group will survive. You guys, use your imagination. But if you flip it, Elisa, again, we're just secular humanists here. Yeah, all the men are alive, but only one woman is left alive. That people group has been eradicated, right? And so we know this. It's all the way down to our biology. How, how, why, why do men protect women? It's not just because they're the weaker vessel. It's because that's how we, we keep the species going. That's how we create more little Imago days running around, right? That's why we protect women. And why do we protect children? Because that's the next generation. Next generation of the exact same thing. So no matter how you slice it, we all know this to be true deep in our souls. But we just pretend when we put layers and layers and layers of these nonsense philosophies on top of all the things that we know Innately to be true.
- [19:28]
Alisa Childers
Okay, so let's talk about church. When you, you mentioned before that a lot of times there's a disconnect between how men are discipled in churches, maybe how material is presented to men, how men's ministries are, what role. And I know I'm opening up a can right now, but what role do you think the music has to do with that?
- [19:47]
Kyle Thompson
Oh, boy, the music.
- [19:48]
Alisa Childers
I've gone there.
- [19:49]
Kyle Thompson
You knew it. You went there. Well, hey, when you were on my show, I think we went there in like two or three minutes. And I wasn't planning on it. And I was like, all right, let me crumple up all my questions, throw them out the window, because is going to be awesome. Yeah. Episode 176 of my podcast, which I have over almost 350 episodes. The only reason I know that one by heart, what number it is is because I'm asked about it constantly. It's called, or, I mean, I literally just forgot the name, but it's Contemporary Christian music is for women and effeminate men. Okay? So I, early in my show, I said I was going to do an entire podcast on just music. And then I finally made it through, you know, 178 episodes in. But I grew up going to church after I became a Christian in high school. And for whatever reason, the music never spoke to me, you know, to use a real New Agey term, right? I'm an aggressive guy. I like aggressive music, right? So I was listening to these Christian metal bands like Zeo and Living Sacrifice and, you know, these really, really aggressive bands. And then I would go to church and I'm like, all right, something's broken in me because obviously this is the God music, right? And then I remember my pastor at the church I went to in Lawton, Oklahoma, saying, well, guys, if you don't like worship, you better get used to it because in heaven, it's just one long worship service. And I was like, oh, heaven sounds terrible. Yeah, this sounds like it's gonna be the worst time possible. What's hell? Like? What kind of music do they play in hell? And so I kept that paradigm, you know, going through, and I even had a worship leader at a local church here in Oklahoma City a few years ago. Tell me, Kyle, you don't like contemporary worship music, so I'm not sure you're saved. And I was just like. But by that time I was like, bro, you're not going to say something like that to me. Let's dig in to what you just said. But a lot of guys, Elisa, don't have the, the personal wherewithal or maybe the emotional maturity to recognize that when they're sitting there in a church and they're singing this squishy worship song that's portraying Jesus like he's your boyfriend, as you said in the intro, boyfriend, Jesus, Jesus, meek and mild Jesus that I can just cuddle and just. It's the sweetest thing I've ever done. Like, it doesn't align with them. It doesn't speak to them. Again, men are attracted to strength. And it's something different when men sing the psalms or they sing old hymns that seem to appropriately describe this creator God that is not just omniscient, omnipresent, but omni powerful and strong and worth following and all those types of things. And I think the, the whole thing, without going too far, much farther down the music rabbit hole, Lisa, is most churches are not man friendly. And we've seen even secular cultural commentators like a Jordan Peterson talk about this recently. He recently released a video called Message to the Christian Churches. And he says churches do a poor job of telling men that this is for you. And I was like, yes, I've been screaming this for years. Most men come to church and there might as well be blinking neon signs that say, not for you. Right? We made church for your wife and for your children. It's not for you. And the thing about Mena, Lisa, is if we go into a game and we know there's no chance of winning, we will probably just not play. It's not really interesting to us. And if we go somewhere where it's so clear that we are not needed, we'll go somewhere where, where we do feel needed. So sometimes that manifests in relationships. You feel like you're not needed by your wife, but you feel like you're needed by your secretary. And then all of a sudden you're, you're, you're dancing your way towards an affair when you go to church and it's like, yeah, we don't really need you here. Well, guess what, your Sunday morning just got busy with golf, shooting range, getting ready for your next fantasy football draft, video games, porn, masturbation, you're going to go do something else where you can feel initiated and powerful. And the modern church has done a really, really, really poor job of initiating men and helping them understand that, hey, we don't just want you here. We need you here. We need you here. We need you discipling your kids. We need you catechizing your Entire family. And hey, we're going to give you the tools and equip you to do that. It's part of the reason why I created an undaunted life was to fill in that gap. And especially for those rough around the edges guys, even though we do have quite a few women that listen to our show as well. It's like, look, I'm going to try to give you the tools on how you can apply this because I know you're not getting it in your local church.
- [23:48]
Alisa Childers
When I was in the contemporary Christian music industry, I wonder too, as you're talking, if part of the conflict is coming from the way Christian music has been marketed, especially for maybe the last 20, 25, 30 years. Because when I was in music, course this was 20 years ago, so it could be different now. But back then, if you wanted to get played on the radio, you had to write a song for this fictional person called Becky. And Becky was the marketing. You know, the marketing people would say, is Becky gonna listen to this song? And Becky was this theoretical 30ish year old soccer mom that was in the car all day long because they knew men probably weren't listening to Caleb all the time, but it was the soccer moms and the moms driving their kids around. And so all of the songs were sort of marketed and aimed toward Becky. So you knew that if you wanted to have radio success, which equaled success in everything else back then is probably different now. But you had to write a song that Becky would listen to. And then of course, you had the birth of worship culture and music. And I would assume that that was aimed toward at least some sort of a Becky in the beginning. And I wonder too, if this is just. That's just been the mindset for so long that then when our churches began to sing all the songs that were coming from this kind of new genre of contemporary worship, if it was just so geared toward Becky that, that the men didn't really have a, a place in, in there for it. Hey guys, I hope you're enjoying my interview with Kyle Thompson. I wanted to pop in here really quick and let you know a couple of things that are going on. The first thing I'm very excited about, We've been waiting a long time, guys. We have merch. So if you're watching on YouTube, you're gonna get to see these things. If you're listening on audio platforms, you might have to just pop over to YouTube to see, but we have new merch right here. I'm holding this mug that says identify, Discern and proclaim. So regular listeners may have noticed that we've been beginning the podcast with our mission statement, which is to equip Christians to identify the core beliefs of historic Christianity, discern its counterfeits, and then proclaim the gospel with clarity, kindness and truth. And so we have those things, three words on several different pieces of merch. Identify, discern, proclaim. So we have this mug here. Let me see if I can get that in focus there. And then we also have T shirts. We also have, we have a sweatshirt with this design, but also this is my favorite because I love all things 70s. But we have a Identify, discern, proclaim T shirt that you can check out. So if you go to the website alisachilders.com, you can find links to that in the store. If you're watching on YouTube, the links are right below where you are. So the other thing that I wanted to let you know about is, as you may have heard me talk about here and there, I have a new book coming out, Live youe Truth and Other Exposing Popular Deceptions that Make Us Anxious, Exhausted and Self Obsessed. It's coming out October 18th and I am so excited to announce that the pre order is up and available. You could go to alisachilders.com to find all the links to where you can pre order the book. And if you pre order the book, you are going to get access to to a series of five videos that are exclusive to the people who pre order the book. And in that five series videos, what I do is I walk through each chapter of the book, give you a little extra insight into what I was thinking when I wrote those chapters and some stories behind what was going on and just a little bit of extra analysis on some of the lies that we deal with in the book Live youe Truth and Other Lies. So Again, go to alisachilders.com for merch. Go to alisachilders.Com to find all the links. All right, back to my interview with Kyle Thomas Thompson. Let's talk about pornography. Because I think that as Christian parents in this culture, there is an absolutely overwhelming sense of just swimming so hard against dream that all of these things are coming at our kids. There's radical gender theory. I know for kids, my kids age, one of the top things that they have to interact with, no matter where they go, whether it's at church, a Christian school, conservative church, doesn't matter, is this whole issue of pronouns. That is the number one topic they're having to navigate. And I know that the sexualization of everything, right, is playing a huge role in that. And ultimately I think pornography plays a role in that too. And that's something that you're not shy to talk about at all. So why don't you talk about that a little bit and how that, you know, obviously it's a problem for men and for women, but ultimately they're really going after our boys with this. What do you think is going on there?
- [28:25]
Kyle Thompson
So by the time this episode is released, there will be an interview that I'll release on my show by Dr. John Fobert. He wrote a book, a great book called How Pornography Harms. And he has a new book out. It's called protecting. I think it's called protecting your children from Internet pornography. And he talks about the ages when kids are typically first exposed to pornography. And we're talking elementary school for boys and girls is the first time that they're exposed to pornography. And again, everyone likes to talk about this, but it's true. It's not the same pornography that I was exposed to when I was a kid because it was Playboys that you had to hide from, you know, you had to go over to your buddy's house who kept it in another buddy's house that was in the backyard or whatever. Now it is hardcore, disgusting pornography. From the moment they see it, it's rape porn. It's doing unfathomable things to, to women and degrading them. The, the most insidious thing about it, Elisa, is the sexual scripting that is created. So what that means is, is whenever you enter into a sexual relationship, and for everyone listening to this, that's not married. That means when you're married, that is the only sexual relationship is when a one man and one woman are married together. That's the only time sex is okay and moral and beautiful and awesome. But if you're going into your first sexual encounter and let's say you're 25 years old and you saved yourself for marriage, but you've been looking at porn for the last decade, those are the things you're going to try to do to your wife, not with your wife, to her, right? And you're going to expect her to react the same way that those plastic women, these perfect women did in, in their, in these videos. And a real woman in the real world is never going to react that way. She's not going to look like that and she's not going to want you to do those things to her. And so it's about the scripting is so unbelievably dangerous. But also for parents, how you react to finding out the first time that your child has been exposed to pornography is going to make a re. That's like a seminal moment for them in their life. I think John Tyson wrote a book called the Intentional Father, and he mentioned that to where it's like, look, you have to be very, very careful with that in that particular situation, because you don't want them to think about sex as this thing that you can't do. And it's this horrible, horrific thing. It's. It's something that the purity culture kind of got wrong probably back in the 90s and 2000s, is they treated sex like, you can't talk about it, you shouldn't even want it because it's terrible, right? And it's bad, and you don't want it to overwhelm you. But the pornography thing is so pervasive because culture has told us that this is normal, right? And men specifically. I'll speak from my own personal experience of pornography. It is a masturbatory aid. That's. That's why you're doing it. Like, people aren't watching it for the acting or for the, you know, the cinematography. They're watching it so that they can get off and. And women are doing the same thing. It's typically in a different form. Most of the pornography consumed by women is written or, or verb or verbal. They listen to it, whereas men are more visual. They want to see it. But part of the problem is, is culture, secular culture tells us pornography is okay and that sex work is real work. But then the church doesn't really like talking about this subject because it's icky and it's weird and because the staff is doing it too. And that's the problem, right, is they don't want to talk to you about why you shouldn't do it because they're doing it. And so I tell people all the time, eight. I think the. The book, it's like 85% of men look at porn fairly regularly and use it as a masturbatory aid. So if you're a guy like me that doesn't do that at all, like, you're the weirdo. And so you need to be able to talk to all these other men to be like, come into this weird world where you don't use these things because. And, and we don't have time to get into all this. But there are men, the same men that are just furious about child trafficking and Sex trafficking and all those things. What do you think pays for that? Trafficking men? It's that these women end up in rape videos or they end up being forced by their pimp, you know, at gunpoint, or sometimes being drugged to go do these things on film so that they can make money off these women being exploited sexually. So in, on one side of your mouth you're saying, yeah, I'm anti, you know, we got to go get these men that are taking advantage of these women. And then you're looking at pornography on your computer and it's like, dude, do you not see the connection? And so again, like, I, I need guys to get real about pornography and what it does to them because it goes way deeper even than that. It's changing the pleasure centers of your brain. The, the rates of kids in their 20s having to get elect or erectile dysfunction treatment has skyrocketed since the pornography revelation. A revolution of the 1990s and into the 2000s and the advent of the smartphone. Why? Because these young men have spent decades marinating themselves in these images that aren't real so that they, when they get with a very, you know, warm blooded female in front of them, they can't perform because all of their sexual exploitation or, or, you know, scripting and everything has gone to what they were doing by themselves with their phone. It's so pervasive and so nasty and there's so much more to talk about, but we got to kind of keep this rolling.
- [33:11]
Alisa Childers
How could we? How? As parents and as people who are discipling younger people in our lives, how. What can we do? Because I think the thing that I've discovered even as a parent is that a lot of times there's all this stuff you don't even real exists that kids have access to. Even if you could, I'm telling you, parents, you can have a kid that you, you've not provided them with a phone, they don't have Internet access, they still can get to it. It's like they. There are so many workarounds. My goodness, what do we do?
- [33:41]
Kyle Thompson
But here's the thing. You just described a very small fraction of parents that have not given in to their stupid little kids that want a phone. So let me make it as plain as possible. Parents, your kids do not need one of these. For those just listening to this, I'm holding up a smartphone. They don't need this. They don't need it. Because no matter what type of platform you put on here to block those things, as you said, they can find it because a lot of these porn sites, they will attach themselves to YouTube sites or YouTube videos, right? Which will cause them to click on. One click to get them off of that platform, and one more click, they're on a porn site. Point. Okay? That. That's how insidious these things are. They have to get these kids hooked. So you will see kids that will literally come into mom and dad's room like, oh, my gosh, like, literally, I didn't try to find this. What is this? And it's pornography. And it's the first time they were exposed. But so for parents, the practical things, there's your. Your kids do not need a smartphone. They need a dumb phone. Do not let them have a television in their room under any circumstances whatsoever, because they will know how to get some device to hook up to that, to that television so that they can have Internet. Do not let them have, you know, a video game system that they can just play whenever they want to that. Because that also hooks to the Internet. So those are the different ways. But again, those are just preventative measures that are practical. The other thing is. Is you. Or go ahead.
- [35:00]
Alisa Childers
Well, I was just gonna say even the dumb phone. We got my daughter a dumb phone a few years ago. It was. It has no apps, no Internet access only. You can only receive texts from people. Or no, I think it didn't have that. But she couldn't click on any links, nothing. And she started to receive spam texts that would have links she couldn't click on, but the words were propositioning her for sex and things like. And so that was one thing we had to navigate. So in our case, what we ended up doing now that she's a little older, is we did go to the iPhone, but it's all controlled through the icloud that we can see everything that happens on that phone. And so I will say that there have been improvements made on how you can lock a phone down and what it's for and all that. But to your point, they can still, like, I didn't even realize for the longest time that if they're playing on a video game that they can talk to other people. It's like, it's crazy out there. Right?
- [35:57]
Kyle Thompson
Right. And predators are. They know all that information well before well meaning parents do. The real crux of the issue, and you're right, it goes well beyond the technology, is having conversations with your kids about the right forms of sex. And you start with the advent of marriage, why that's important and why, as a Christian, they should think that way, because that's the paradigm they should have in their brain. Because culture tells them, have sex as quickly as possible. As many partners as you want to experiment. Who cares? Like, do whatever makes you feel good. Boo. That's what culture is telling them. But you're telling them no, that that is something that God gave you as the most extreme gift of pleasure. That if you get it in any other way, you're not just sinning. It's not just going to send you to hell. Just being born is going to send you to hell. Right. But it's. It's. This is how sex should be valued. And, and again, depending on the kid and depending upon how mature they are. Get into that discussion about sex trafficking. Get into that discussion about a lot of these girls that have gotten out of their pornography industry. Tell you about what's going on inside it. It. That they are being held against their will in a lot of ways. Like, they're, They're. They're. They're throwing up in between scenes because of the things that they're being forced to do. And it's like, do you really want to receive pleasure from someone else's gruesome level of pain? And again, depending on the kid is how far you go into a discussion like that. But. And if they're a younger kid telling them about, you know, making sure that they're looking out for predators, because predators will use links on phones and in direct messages and things like that, that it's having those adult conversations that are calibrated for their age and maturity level that will kind of help them to be able to script sex in a way that it's beautiful and pleasurable when it's appropriate, which is in a marriage between one man and one woman.
- [37:41]
Alisa Childers
While we're on this topic, because I think it's directly related to the. The abortion debate, right? So there's been a lot happen in our culture in the past few months. And. Well, I mean, and going beyond that, but there's also a lot of misinformation out there right now. What would you say? Like, what, What's. What's getting under your skin in the abortion con right now?
- [38:00]
Kyle Thompson
Oh, what in the hell happened in Kansas? What are y' all doing? So if y' all aren't aware, like, there was a constitutional amendment where it would have basically paved the way for the Kansas state legislature to eradicate abortion in their state, and it was defeated in the state roundly, like 59 to 41. But a lot of it had to do with a disinformation campaign because millions of dollars got poured into the state of Kansas on a constitutional amendment that had been written before the Dobbs decision even came down. But one of the big things that people are saying now, even pro lifers are saying that is that people, women will not be able to get treatment for ectopic pregnancies because Roe v. Wade was overturned. Or women have, that have miscarriages, might potentially go to jail for murder and all these things. Guys, those are lies. Yeah, they're lies from the pit of hell. Let's specifically talk about ectopic pregnancies real quick. So, so an ectopic pregnancy is where the, the zygote gets stuck, you know, the fetus gets stuck in the fallopian tube. We currently do not have the technology to flush that fetus into the uterus so it can implant and so that I can grow and survive. Almost 100% of the babies that get stuck in the fallopian tube go there in pieces, which is to say that they're no longer alive. Okay, but the abortion, the procedure of an abortion is the direct targeting of an innocent human life for destruction. An ectomic pregnancy, and treating a woman for that is not an abortion, because you're trying to save as much life as is possible in that moment. And unfortunately, our technology only allows us to potentially to save the life of mom. Okay, so it's a horrible byproduct of the fall, but that's the world that we live in. But no, I had a pro lifer reach out to me. A guy listens to my show and says, kyle, you're spreading propaganda, you're spreading lies by saying, you know, women, you know, are going to be able to get these treatments in the state of Oklahoma. It's coded to where these women, if they get treatment for an ectopic pregnancy, they could be, you know, brought up on these charges. And it's like, no, no, read, read. Because this is not real. You have bought into the lie. You bought into the propaganda. But misinformation is incredibly powerful. Yeah, right. And so, and it's very enticing and it gives people something to be fired up about that like, oh, oh, I had a miscarriage. And I can't imagine being arrested for that. It's like, well, great, because in reality, that never would have happened. And so that's, that's the thing that's driving me nuts right now. But that's why on our show, I constantly give guys the tools to engage pro abortion arguments. So at My church in September, I'm going to be speaking to the entire congregation about engaging pro abortion arguments. And I think I do 17 or 18 different arguments like my body, my choice, or you only care about the baby before they're born, or, you know, it's not, you know, alive until it's born. And I give Christians questions to ask back to those people to put them on their heels. Because if you're pro life, you are on the moral side of this issue. You're on the right side of history. You don't have to defend yourself and your worldview, they do. And so that's the thing that I equip men to do. Because most churches, they either give this mealy mouth, you know, thing saying like, oh, abortion's bad. It's like, great, we get it. Thanks for not telling us how we can engage culture though, though. Because I've seen people, even in my Sunday school, their entire pro life viewpoint falls apart with one question. Well, what if she was raped, right? And then all of a sudden they're like, oh, gosh, I guess we can kill those babies. And it's like, no, you are not appropriately and sufficiently pro life if that one question makes you fall down to your knees into a puddle of stupid. And so that's the thing that we try to do and we try to help people. It's like, no, we're going to give you the tools to push back against these worldviews.
- [41:30]
Alisa Childers
So what do you think men's responsibility is in the abortion debate? Because obviously one of those pro abortion talking points is that you don't get an opinion because you don't have a uterus, right? But I wonder, I mean, this is so if we really swing out to the holistic view of masculinity, femininity, the two sexes coming together to procreate, and God's design for all of that stuff. Men do have a say in a role in abortion, don't they?
- [41:56]
Kyle Thompson
Say? Abortion is a men's issue. And people think it's just a women's issue because the majority of abortion doctors are male. The seven men that voted to approve Roie Wade in this country were men. All, almost all the people that own abortion facilities are men. No one enjoys abortion more than a little boy that can shave. He didn't feel like wearing a condom, so he got his girlfriend knocked up. He loves abortion, right? Because he doesn't have to grow up. He can keep playing video games and watching porn and drinking beer and ignoring his girlfriend because they're not going to Have a baby together, he's not going to have to marry her. So boys love it. They, they think it's the best thing ever. So do predators, predators that impregnate young women and, and then, or pimps or whatever, these things. Yeah, they love it. They love that they can just march into a Planned parenthood and get rid of that problem so that they can keep making money or so that they can keep abusing that, that. But again, if we take our role seriously in protecting the imago day into protecting women, this is a men's issue that like you would, like you have never seen. And the other thing about it is, guys, again we're attacking a world view when we're engaging with people on this issue. So if someone says to me, no uterus, no opinion, I will say somewhat tongue in cheek. If I identify as a woman for the rest of this conversation, do I get an opinion then? Because they're not going to be down with that by any stretch of the imagination. But men don't buy into the lie. And here's another thing and I'll, I'll end my little diatribe with this. I was talking to somebody that worked in ministries inside of these non abortion facilities, but crisis pregnancy centers, you know, pregnancy resource centers. And when the male that was responsible for part of the baby and the woman were in there, they would separate the the men and the women so that the woman could get some counseling and some, some chatting with. And then there was a man that would talk to the man and that man would speak life into that young man and say, this is not a mistake. This is a beautiful thing. A new life has been created and is your responsibility to care for it and provide for it. The difference is when they go into someplace like a Planned Parenthood, do you know why they separate the man and the woman? Because they want to make sure the man doesn't stop her. And when you talk to a gal like Abby Johnson that used to run a Planned parenthood facility, she says she rem men and women sitting in her office before they would separate the man off so that they could go slaughter the baby. And they, she remembers the women looking at their men. And I get so upset talking about this, looking at their men like, help me, save me be, stop this. Like I, I don't have the words to stop this because we've already paid the money and I'm about to go back in the room and get changed so I can get this surgery. And they just look at their, their little boy that can Shave. And they go, oh, well, I guess it's her decision. I guess she can do it. And their baby was murdered, right? So, men, you have a role to play in this, okay? And then when a new life is created, that is a blessing from God. And you will figure it out. And there are plenty of resources out there for you to take care of business. But again, don't buy into the cultural lie that somehow this is only a women's issue and only a women's issue that happened to agree with you politically.
- [45:02]
Alisa Childers
That's good. You said something intriguing before we went on the air. You said, I don't believe in mansplaining. And I wanna ask you about that, because I actually don't either. And so I wanna tell you a story. And there's a way culture would want me to interpret what happened. But if I'm honest, I have to be honest about what probably happened. Now. I'm sure there's probably jerks out there somewhere, guys who think girls don't know anything. I mean, yeah, I'm sure that happens, but I was in a situation where I was with a lot of intellectuals, right? It was maybe five or six people all gathering around, and I was kind of the new kid on the block. I don't think I'd even written my book yet, but I was in this group, and everybody was talking, and they were talking about the noetic effects of sin, right? So this one person was talking about the noetic effects of sin. The guy next to me leans over and whispers, the noetic effects of sin is the effects of sin on the mind. And I was like. My immediate reaction was like, thanks, dude. I know. You know, but. And then I was like, did he just say that? Cause I'm a girl. But, you know, I had to be really honest about it. I sensed that he meant well. And so could he have thought because I'm a girl, I didn't know that. Maybe. But actually, I don't think that's what was going on. I think he knew that I was the only person in the group that didn't have, like, a master's in apologetics. Maybe that's why he thought I wouldn't know what that was, and he was just being nice. Maybe it had nothing to do with gender. Maybe it just was somebody being overly helpful. Lots of people are overly helpful, right? You know, it has nothing to do with their race or their sex or whatever kind of social category they fall in. But I think that our. Now the culture would tell me, oh, I know. I Can tell you exactly what happened and they would want me to be offended.
- [46:46]
Kyle Thompson
Yeah, you were harmed somehow.
- [46:48]
Alisa Childers
Yeah, I mean, you know, don't oppress me. But honestly, I just, I chose to see, you know, like, when the Bible talks about love, believes all things, hopes all things, like, I'm going to try to interpret that in the most charitable way possible. And unless I have reason to believe that guy's a chauvinist, which I don't at all, I don't think he is. I'm just going to interpret that in the most charitable way possible and not just assume that that's because of my sex. Right, right.
- [47:12]
Kyle Thompson
Well, the funny thing about that is let's assume that he was being a chauvinist. So, like, how many people have you been around that say and think and do stupid things, and you're still around them now if they do too many of those things, there's kind of a threshold of stupid that you can have in your life with certain people, it's like, okay, I need to kind of put you at arms, arm's distance here. But you said it perfectly. Have a charitable heart. When you're dealing with people. Like, think about. So with, with, you know, feminism or chauvinism or toxic masculinity, also with race or. Or with someone's ethnicity, like we've been taught culturally, you shouldn't ask where people are from. Do you know how many times I've asked. Asked someone where they're from because they have a different accent or maybe they don't talk. Like, like we talk here in Oklahoma. And that's led to us getting into a fist fight. Exactly. Zero times.
- [47:57]
Alisa Childers
Right?
- [47:57]
Kyle Thompson
And these people are so excited to talk to you. Like, I was in an uber in Washington, D.C. and the guy was from Eritrea. I've never met someone from Eritrea. And I'm like, dude, tell me about Eritrea, because I hear it's crazy down there. And he was so excited to talk about how he grew up, up, why he came to America, the food. And I was able to pronounce some of the food because I had read about that area at one point in my life, and we got to have a great interaction. But what if I had avoided that because culture told me, ah, he's gonna think that's racist because I'm a patriarchal white oppressor asking him where he's from. Again, just engage with people and if they say something dumb, okay, it's fine. Like, everyone's got a racist uncle that, you know, says some really, like, off color Things, it's like, okay, that's just who they are. I'm not co signing it or saying that's appropriate, but yeah, be charitable about it. It's really not that big a deal. Not wrap yourself around these potential slights and have it affect your day.
- [48:49]
Alisa Childers
I, I agree. It's like I, I just feel like when something like that happens, for whatever reason it happened, it's like, you know what? Good thing I put on my big kid pants today. Like, I'm fine. I'm gonna survive this. Right?
- [49:00]
Kyle Thompson
Well, let me explain something to you, Elisa, because you're a woman and I obviously have a bigger brain than you.
- [49:04]
Alisa Childers
I'm taking notes.
- [49:05]
Kyle Thompson
Yeah, exactly. The thing is, is if you look for opportunities to be offended, you will be. Be. It's like magic.
- [49:12]
Alisa Childers
Yeah.
- [49:13]
Kyle Thompson
Like you, you will constantly find the microest of microaggressions that happen to you on a daily basis. But if you go into your day thinking, I'm going to be resilient today, I'm going to let. I'm not going to sweat the small stuff, you know, I'm going to have some thick skin. It is amazing how your entire countenance will basically circle around that aspirational or identity or whatever new, New agey thing I'm supposed to say. It's, it's like, like think it before, think it into action or whatever that type of a thing is. Like, you know, fake it until you make it. You can be resilient and you can stand up to that. But we have a culture that values victimhood. And so we've created a bunch of, you know, millions of little minions that are looking for opportunities every day to be offended. And it's a miracle they find it every time they look for it.
- [50:00]
Alisa Childers
Well, I wanna ask you a couple of final questions here. One, I've been thinking this whole time, there's probably some. Some men listening to this who may not be as classically maybe masculine as you are. Maybe they're more artistic, maybe they're more of a creative type. That doesn't necessarily mean feminine, but they look at a guy like you and they think, well, I just could never be that way. Does that mean I'm not masculine? Or I'm not being the kind of man that God wants me to be. What would be your word to somebody like that?
- [50:30]
Kyle Thompson
I'm so glad you asked that question. I don't get asked that question nearly enough. I think this is maybe the only second time I've had to answer something like that here recently. I did it Was like this. I don't know, this. This group of entrepreneurs, Christian entrepreneurs that came together, and I was talking to them about the difference between discipline and motivation. And I was like, motivation stinks. Don't wait for the motivation to strike. You lead a disciplined life if you want to, you know, get to that goal. And somebody asked me, and I knew it was coming. They're like, well, you seem like a really disciplined guy. What about for the rest of us? And I was like, nope, I'm not going to grant that to you. Because, yes, I'm a very disciplined guy. Guy. But I get to make the decision every time whether or not I stay that guy, right? So waking up tomorrow morning really, really early and going into my home gym and putting weight on the bar and getting in the squat rack, I don't want to do it. I'm already, like, looking. Looking at it like, this is. I don't. I want to go do something else. I want to eat cookies and be fat and stupid. Like. But, like, it's just a decision that I've already pre made that that's who I am. I am a guy that lifts weights. So that's what I'm going to do. So let me kind of back into what you were asking about. About. I know there are men out there that don't check the typical masculine boxes, right? They don't have muscles. They're not a good athlete. They don't drink whiskey. They have no idea what kind of cigar they should, you know, pair with a particular drink. Like, they don't know any of those things. Now, Pastor Joby Martin, who's a good friend of mine out of Jacksonville, he says, none of those things make me a man. They make me awesome. They don't make me a man. And that's the exact thing I would tell these guys. So I'm very typically masculine in the things that I'm interested in. But if you're into classical music and cooking and. And you. And you like to dance and you write sonnets, I don't even know what a sonnet is, but I'm assuming that's something that a guy like me wouldn't do. But I don't care. I don't care what you're into. What I care about and what I think a man is, is a male. Stupid. I even have to say that. But a biological male that cultivates spiritual, mental, and physical resilience on a daily basis is. That. Is what a man is. So that's why we focus on those three areas within Undaunted life. Spiritual, mental, and physical. Resilience, not strength. Because strength wanes over time, no matter what age you are, no matter where you're at, your circadian rhythms or whatever silliness that we. We talk about these days, it's the ability to bounce back regardless of what's happening to you in those three major areas of your life. Spiritually, mentally, and physically. So if you like to do something different than I do with my downtime time, I don't care. Like, if you don't want to come train with me and my buddies as we do jiu jitsu, fine by me. But you can be. I know some gangsters, Elisa, that don't fight, that have really soft hands, that. That, like, would never say anything bad about anybody. But those dudes are gangsters because they are spiritual warriors. They are mentally strong physically. They probably need some work. But guess what? They love their wives, their kids respect them as much as they love them. That's what a man is. I don't care how much you can bench press. Like, yeah, I'm attracted to strength. I love strongman competitions as well. That doesn't make you a man, bro. Get off it.
- [53:26]
Alisa Childers
That's great. All right, final question. What table would Jesus flip today?
- [53:32]
Kyle Thompson
All of them. Every single last table that was in front of him. Especially if it was built by somebody that had a rainbow flag on the wall of their shop or something like that. But specifically, I was kind of being a little bit funny with that. That. I think the biggest table he would flip now is the table that has transgenderism on top of it. Okay. So I just finished a book by Carl Truman. It's called the Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. I just talked to him about it on my show. I'm gonna have him back on later on this year because I swear I'm not smart enough to read that book. Like, when I got. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, I. I think I'm dumb. I think I got dumber after having read this book because, you know, it was just kind of one of those feelings. So I need to read it again and have him back on which. Which we have scheduled for later on this year. Year. But it hinges on something that I talked about years ago that I was. I was called out for, and a lot of people thought it was inappropriate. So the Overton window, for anyone in your audience that doesn't know what that is, that is the window of discourse in public that is appropriate. So 200 years ago, interracial marriage would have been outside the Overton Window. It would have been unthinkable culturally. Right. 25 years ago, gay marriage would have been unthinkable. Right. 10 years ago, a 7 year old changing their gender from, you know, feminine or from female to male, unthinkable. But now all of those things have shifted into the Overton window. Those are things that we can discuss. And I remember saying this, this was probably in 2018, 2019. The very next wall to fall in the sexual revolution is going to be pedophilia.
- [55:03]
Alisa Childers
Oh yeah.
- [55:03]
Kyle Thompson
And the reason I, yeah, the reason I said that is because if a child can choose their gender, then why can they not choose their sexual partner? And people, what my best friends, my foxhole Guys, my 3am Friends, like my, my most down of my most down friends either, like Kyle, I know you're bold, I know you're aggressive. That's, that's a bridge too far. And I said, I appreciate your opinion. Wait. Just wait. And then story after story comes out. Like we're not even allowed to call them pedophiles anymore. They're minor attracted persons. Right. Minor attracted persons. Where there's been TED talks about how we shouldn't look at pedophiles as people that need to be institutionalized, but we should look at them as that. That's just a sexual preference, just like bisexuality or pansexuality or. It's a sexual identity identifying with the sexuality of a young person. Right. And also we currently have men that are in women's prisons because they identify as women. Right. Well, what if I'm, you know, a crazy person that also watches the news and I'm a 35 year old man that loves to, you know, have sex, otherwise known as rap, rape little girls or little boys. And then I get arrested and I go before the court and I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I know what my birth certificate says, but how I feel inside is that I'm a 15 year old boy. What does the culture, what is the culture going to say about that? Right? So we live in a culture where truth should be the most important thing, but we've been marinated in postmodernism since Karl Marx decided to crawl out of the pits of hell and put all these stupid ideas in people's brains. So I think that is what the next hints point of culture is. So if there were a plethora of tables and Jesus were walking into the temple right now, I think he would make a beeline for that one.
- [56:47]
Alisa Childers
That's good. I, I couldn't agree more. In fact, I remember, Kyle, when everybody was debating. It was before gay marriage was legalized in this country, and everybody was debating it. They knew the decision was coming up, and a lot of people were using the example of polyamorous. They were saying, if we open this door, then there's no stopping polyamory. And I remember on Twitter, all these people saying, don't be stupid. That would never happen. That you're just pulling out crazy examples just to try to make an extreme thing. It's never gonna happen. Well, fast forward. It was just on. I believe it was one of those talent shows where this contestant got. It was one of the network tv, and the guy gets up to do his thing, and they're like, oh, did you bring your family? And he points to his family, his group marriage that he has, and they're all cheering for him on the side. He gets all these cheers and applause. And I think it was even a standing ovation, if I remember the story correctly. That's not an extreme example. And I remember people saying, oh, you guys are just being so extreme to try to stop this. But it's exactly what's happened. And I think you're identifying the absolute correct trajectory for that. And. And, yeah, I just. I couldn't agree more. I think that's exactly where our culture is headed.
- [57:59]
Kyle Thompson
Well, it's. It's always a conspiracy theory until the details come out. It's always a slippery slope. It's always a slippery slope fallacy until it's a slippery slope reality. And that's what a lot of these things say. So when. When cults. Now, there are people that get things wrong, right? There are conspiracy theorists that just because something's plausible doesn't mean it actually happens. So people need to understand that. But, yeah, it's the exact same thing. We've seen this with 2020 because we were gaslighting it with a lot of things about the C word, which I won't say on your show, so it doesn't get, you know, dinged or whatever. But we were led to believe a lot of things were true. And then everybody waited until most of the people weren't paying attention anymore, and then it's like, well, actually, this is what was true. The same thing is happening in a situation like this because, again, look at the gay revolution. It went from, we just let us love who we want to love. We just let us, you know, don't be concerned about what's happening in our bedroom. Just. Just let us have these civil unions and Then most people are like, like, because conservatives and Christians are nice people. They're like, yeah, sure, whatever. And then it was like, just let us get married. Like, it's really not that big a deal. We're not going to do anything. Just let us get married. And we fast forward all the way to today, which is like, I am gonna get married to this man, and I'm a man. And you need to go to my wedding. You need to bake me a cake and you need to celebrate it. It is not good enough for you to just sit by and allow it to happen. I need you to come here and clap for me, you bigot. That's where we're at now.
- [59:15]
Alisa Childers
Now.
- [59:15]
Kyle Thompson
And so again, that is a message to all of you conservative Christians that never find a hill that is worth dying on. Right? It's not transgenderism. It's not critical race theory in our schools. It's not progressive Christianity, which we didn't really get to talk too much about today. You've never found a hill that was worth dying on. Well, guess what, buddy. One day you're gonna wake up and I've said this a lot, and the war will have been over with. It will have passed you by and you will realize that there is no blood on your sword. There are no dents in your armor because you didn't find it within your wheelhouse to go out there and push back darkness. No, not on my watch. We have to.
- [59:49]
Alisa Childers
That's a good word. And we'll end with that. I want to thank my guest, Kyle Thompson of the Undaunted Life podcast, Podcast for men. You can look for that on all the typical audio platforms for podcasts. Thanks so much for watching today. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe and click that bell icon because that will let you know every time we release a new video. If you're listening on audio platforms like Google, Spotify, itunes, really helps if you leave a five star review. And of course, sharing this on social media helps get the word out to as many people as possible. Thanks so much for watching and we'll see you next time. Sa.