← The Alisa Childers Podcast
The Alisa Childers Podcast
#372 From Same-Sex Relationship to Freedom in Christ | Patti Height
01:15:22
Loading summary
Transcript108 lines
- [00:00]
Patti Height
I wake up one morning and I roll over, I look at her and I just say, babe, do you ever think the way we're living is wrong? Wow. And she just looks at me and I thought, oh, my goodness, Now I've lost my girlfriend. I lost coworkers. I lost my brother. Now I'm going to lose my girlfriend. Why did I say that out loud? But what felt like an eternity was probably two or three seconds, and she responds with, I can't believe you just asked me that. I was literally just getting ready to ask you the same thing.
- [00:37]
Alisa Childers
Hey, friends. Welcome to the Alisa Childers podcast. I'm Alisa Childers, and it's always my goal to help equip Christians to identify the core beliefs of historic Christianity, discern its counterfeits, and proclaim the gospel with clarity, kindness, and truth. And today's episode is all about the gospel. I'm going to bring you a powerful conversation with my friend, friend Patty Height. But before we get to that, I want to tell you that today's episode is brought to you by our friends at We Heart Nutrition, a supplement company where I've been using their products for about a month now, and I feel such a difference, and I can't wait to tell you about it. But in the meantime, you can go to weheartnutrition.com and use my code, Alisa, for 20% off your first order. Okay? Today's episode is a conversation with my friend, Patty Height.
- [01:23]
Patti Height
Now.
- [01:23]
Alisa Childers
Now. I met Patti back a couple of years ago at a Calvary Chapel Pastor's Wives conference that I was speaking at. And I was so impressed with her and her story, and I wanted her to share with you her story of God saving her out of the LGBTQ life and out of sexual confusion, gender confusion. I have never had an episode where my husband literally had to go get a tissue because I was just trying not to ugly cry through the powerful parts of how God didn't just save her her, but the girlfriend that she was living with. They both trusted in Christ for salvation on the same day. And it's just amazing. The story of how that works itself out from there is something you don't want to miss. I want to encourage you that if you struggle with same sex attraction or any kind of gender confusion, if you know someone who struggles, maybe you identify proudly as gay or as a member of the LGBTQ community. I want to invite you to listen to this conversation to learn about the love that God has for you, to learn how he seeks and saves the lost and the depth of deep abiding peace you can have when you are aligned with him in relationship, forgiven, restored, adopted into God's family. And Patty just communicates all of that so beautifully. So here is my conversation with Patty. Patty, I would love for you to start with your story, but before you go into that, tell us a little bit about who you are and about the ministry that you do and then share your story about what brought you to this point of time in your life in ministry.
- [02:59]
Patti Height
Yes, well, my name is Patti Height and the ministry the Lord raised me up for is called out of Egypt Ministries. And I'm not Egyptian trying to escape Egypt. Middle Eastern food is my favorite. I would have stayed but out of Egypt in the spiritual sense. That place of bondage and slavery and my place of bondage and slavery that the Lord wanted to deliver me out of was my own self proclaimed identity of gay. And back then it was more of a gender non conformed identity. It wasn't a lot of trans identities then. And so I presented myself in the masculine, but I didn't identify as trans. It was just gender non conformed. And then the Lord met me miraculously, which I'll share. And now I have an identity in Christ and Christ alone. And just recently he's raised me up to do a podcast called Distinct by Design, which I'm learning along the way. But it's really exciting because then I get to share a little more raw and real than I would from a a platform at churches.
- [04:07]
Alisa Childers
I get to be a guest.
- [04:08]
Patti Height
You get to be a guest. I'm so excited we're doing podcast swaps
- [04:11]
Alisa Childers
today, so very fun. So yeah, share your story Were you raised in a Christian home?
- [04:15]
Patti Height
Yeah, so my parents might say it was a Christian home, but I wouldn't call it a Christian home now that I know what Christianity is. We went to church on Christmas and Easter and maybe one or two times during the year, but I have no recollection of anything that I learned in church. And I didn't see Christ in my home at all. And so I would say I wasn't raised in a Christian church. But you know, back then there was more of a a sense of Christianity throughout the nation than what we see now. Right. And so my struggles that I had, I didn't know that I could turn to the Lord for help. I didn't really turn to my parents for help because it was difficult for me to trust them. And I have two siblings, but they were 15 and 13 years older than me. So I was basically raised as an only child, trying to figure out all this stuff I was dealing with on my own. And the biggest thing, my first memories of what was difficult and I didn't know how to handle was my gender confusion. And so I was identified as a tomboy when I was little, But I didn't like that term. I didn't like being called a tomboy because it indicated that I wasn't really a boy. I was someone that acted like a boy. And I did act like a boy, but inside, I desperately felt like a boy. I desired to be a boy. And so there was times I thought I was a boy, and yet times, no, I'm not a boy, but I desire to be one. So it was so incredibly confusing.
- [05:48]
Alisa Childers
Do you think that if it was 2026 back then, like, you would have been on the fast track to medical intervention and all of that stuff?
- [05:55]
Patti Height
A hundred percent. And my parents probably would have put me, because of my aggression toward wanting it. They would have put me on puberty blockers and all of that, because when I was 8 years old in 19, I don't mind saying my age, I was 8 years old in 1974. And so my mother took me to the doctor and said, my daughter thinks she's a boy. What should we do? Oh, wow. And the doctor, really, in nonchalance, just said, oh, don't worry about it. She'll grow out of it and make a fine wife someday. And now, because there are studies, we know that if there is a child, prepubescent child, that has gender confusion, as long as there's no affirmation from parents or teachers or pastors, between 85 to 90 something, depending on the study, will grow out of that gender confusion. However, those who do get affirmation, there's a very high percentage that will go on to socially transition. And social transition then leads oftentimes into medical transition, and then that leads into surgical transition. And so, yes.
- [07:03]
Alisa Childers
So not to hijack the story. No, this is an important point because one of the questions that I get a lot when I'm speaking from parents, because it's so prevalent right now from kids who think they're the opposite sex. And parents are like, well, if I just go with the pronouns, it'll be okay if I just maybe use the. The new name. But it sounds like, and I've heard Rosaria say this, that social transition is a fast track to medical transition. So just very quickly, and then we'll jump back into your story, what would your advice be to parents who might have a child like you, who thinks they're of the opposite sex. Is it really not a big deal to just go ahead with the pronouns, or should parents really hold the line on all of it?
- [07:42]
Patti Height
They should really hold the line if you have a thought or start a sentence with if I just. You need to pause and say, lord, why am I saying if I just. If you want to use those words, say, if I just come before the Lord in fasting and prayer, he will lead and guide and direct me in how to minister to my child. And so my advice to parents is to understand that it's the truth that sets us free. And so we have to speak truth to our children. And they are going to buck against you. Whether it's true confusion that might be or lead into dysphoria, if it's trans trending, it's something that they truly feel. But children need to be led. Children need to be directed.
- [08:33]
Alisa Childers
And they buck against other things, too. It's not just that we somehow, like, we know that our parent, our kids are going to say, I hate you and slam the door and walk out, but we still hold the line on what's good and true for them.
- [08:44]
Patti Height
We do. And we have to do it. We have to take it on the chin.
- [08:47]
Alisa Childers
Yeah.
- [08:47]
Patti Height
And it is going to be hard. And your child might actually most likely will threaten you with, you know, the days of running away. Like, for our age, those days are long gone now. The threat is, I'm gonna hurt myself. I'm gonna cut, I'm gonna commit suicide. And so, you know, our parents would be, you know, if you're gonna run away, let me pack you a lunch. Well, obviously, that's not a response parents can give now when their child threatens to hurt themselves. And so maybe speak to your child and just say, I understand you're in a very difficult and confusing season in your life. We're here for you. Please let us know everything that you're going through. We'll talk with you, we'll walk with you, we'll pray with you. We'll get you help, Christian counseling if you need that. We'll dive into the word of God with you concerning sexuality and gender. However, we're not going to lie to you concerning this because we know the truth of who you are. We prayed for nine months of what your name should be. We believe your name. God gave us, you know, your name as we prayed over what to call you. So please don't tell us that the name we gave you at birth is your dead name. That hurts us and so, you know, show us that mutual respect, that we're gonna be there for you and try to meet you in your feelings. But we are asking you to meet us where we are and understand our feelings as your parents as well, and then build them up and say, we believe you're mature enough, you know, if they're in their teens, to do this. So let's walk together through this. We're not abandoning you.
- [10:21]
Alisa Childers
Good.
- [10:22]
Patti Height
But we're meeting you in the truth and walking alongside you.
- [10:25]
Alisa Childers
Very good. So. So you had this doctor that basically, you know, had the foresight to say, give it some time. And then what happens from there?
- [10:33]
Patti Height
Well, a few months after that, we found out he had a secret gay bar underneath his practice. So he might have been thinking in his head, yay, another one for the teen. But he really. He really left my mother without any idea as to what to do. And so my parents didn't affirm my, you know, my boyish ways, and they didn't try to throw dresses on me. They just let it ride out, which is really one of the best things you can do. And so, however, for me, I wasn't one of those that did come out on the other side of puberty without confusion. My confusion continued. But I do think that there are reasons for that confusion with some of my experiences. And so I. In my home. And please, this isn't me trying to throw my parents under the bus or blaming anybody. It's just my story, my experience, and how I responded to it. And I responded differently than my brother and sister did. But my parents had a relationship that was very odd. They didn't really argue with each other. It was just nonstop bickering 24 7. But what really hurt me the most, now I know what hurt me the most is the way I heard my father speak to my mother. And so every day I would hear him say something to the effect of, you're stupid, you're worthless, you're crazy. You're so crazy, I'm gonna drop you off at the loony bin and never pick you up. And I would hear that constantly. And so, again, what I know now is that I saw that, and I'm like, okay, if I'm a girl, I'm gonna end up being just like my mom. And I don't wanna be like her. I don't wanna be stupid and worthless and crazy. I wanna be powerful and strong. And so I detached from my mom and attached more to my dad and the boys in my neighborhood that I played with. And I started to Even more emulate them instead of emulating my mom to learn what it was to be a woman and grow in womanhood. And, and, and so I didn't, I didn't do that.
- [12:41]
Alisa Childers
Okay, friends, I want to tell you about a supplement company that I genuinely love. They're called We Heart Nutrition. They're family owned, they're Christians, they create research backed, highly bioavailable supplements that don't have things like unnecessary fillers, artificial ingredients, or shortcuts. So many of the supplements that you just buy in the drugstore, they're not made to actually absorb into your body. Just because it says it has this much of something, it doesn't mean that it's in a form that your body can actually use. We Heart Nutrition has everything that is bioavailable. And what really sets them apart is that they donate 10% of every single sale to pregnancy resource centers across the U.S. to date, they've donated over $1 million, which is so amazing. So I want to tell you about two of my personal favorites. I take both of these supplements every single day. The first is their magnesium glycinate. I take this every single night because it's 100% magnesium glycinate. Now I didn't know this before, but there are loopholes that supplement companies can use to kind of hide oxide blends in their magnesium supplements to make them cheaper. Well, because We Heart Nutrition are Christians and they have integrity, they don't do that. It's 100% magnesium glycinate. So I take it every night for sleep. It supports stress levels, muscle relaxation, helps me wind down at night and it doesn't upset my stomach. And the next one that I take every single day is their wholesome Omega 3. Now this was designed with purity and potency in mind. They source their omega 3 from wild caught fish, never farm fish, and they concentrate it for optimal levels of EPA and dha. And what I really love about it is there's no fishy aftertaste. So check them out by going to We Heart Nutrition today and use the code ALISA for 20% off your first order. Again, go to weheartnutrition.com and use the code ALISA for 20% off your 1st order.
- [14:33]
Patti Height
You know, detaching from my mom was, was a big deal. That's, I think played a big part in me not wanting to be a woman because hearing my father call her stupid was. It broke my heart. And I still to this day battle with in my own internal thoughts. Oh, you are like your mom. You're not very bright. You're stupid. And so I have to battle those thoughts and retract my own thoughts and even conversations with people sometimes. And so our words can really impact the conversation we're in, but also the people around us. And the word of God it might be, James, it says basically to live the gospel and share the gospel for yourself, but also for those who hear you. And, you know, so I'm not like a spoken word or a word of God and such type person. But our words can have impact, impactful practices on those who hear. And so that really impacted my life. And there was a season of my very young life until I was 12 years old, that I was being sexually molested. And so I hated my body. I had this love, hate relationship with my body. I loved the fact that I was athletic and could do anything that I wanted to athletically. And yet at the same time, I hated my body because it was a girl body. And I hated my body because of what was happening to it. And so whether you're 5 or 55, your brain is always trying to figure out what is going on and how do I respond to what is going on. And so what I thought in my little girl mind is this type of abuse must only happen to girls. So if I could just become that boy that I already feel like or lean more toward anyways, then maybe that abuse would stop. And so that was a very difficult season in my life. And then it's interesting, I don't know if there's a correlation or what the correlation would be, but when the abuse stopped is when the drugs and alcohol started.
- [16:44]
Alisa Childers
Interesting.
- [16:45]
Patti Height
And so I started drinking at 12 years old and I started doing drugs at 13. Very heavy drugs, you know, the LSD and the cocaine and all of that. And I hated being sober. I did not like being sober. I did not like where my thoughts took me when I was sober. But at the same time, I didn't like where I was physically going when I was doing all those drugs because I was in situations that were very dangerous for a young girl to be in. I was partying with people older than me and, and found myself in sexual situations with men that were much older than me because they had drugs and I wanted the drugs. And so there was a swap going on. And I remember just thinking, is this what the rest of my life is gonna be like? Until my sister called, who was living in Florida with her family. I grew up in western New York. And she came as soon as I graduated high school. She came and Got me out of that home and out of that situation and brought me to Florida to live with her. But I just brought myself with me, you know. And so now I'm in Florida partying with her friends who are much older than me. Cause she's 15 years older. And I was at a party and this guy started talking to me. And, you know, we were shooting pool and, you know, just all the things you do when you hang out. But then he asked me out on a date. I was floored. I didn't know what to do with that. No one had ever asked me out on a date before I was 18 years old. And so I was a little bit intrigued because I thought, wow, if I go out with this guy, I'm not attracted to him, but if I go out with him, maybe it'll take away my gender confusion. And I was at that point already same sex attracted. And I thought, this is my ticket out. This is my way out of same sex attraction and gender confusion. I'll just start dating a guy.
- [18:40]
Alisa Childers
So you wanted out of him?
- [18:41]
Patti Height
I wanted out, yeah. And I handled everything in my own strength and with my own wisdom. Because again, I didn't know that there was a God that I could turn to. Wow. And there wasn't Internet. Then thank God, that I couldn't go online and type in how do you know you're gay? Or how do you know you're trans? With a plethora of information that would have come up that would have mostly been lies and led me down a wrong direction. And so I went out on a date with this guy and just started asking questions, as you do when you're out on your first date. And I asked him why everyone was so excited to see him at the party. And he's like, oh, it's the first time anyone's seen me since I was just released from prison. And so I'm like, you know, I'm 18 years old and just like now I'm in a car with a guy that just got out of prison. What do I do? And so, you know, I just asked him, you know, what he was in for. Here's this little 18 year old girl, hey, man, what are you in for? He's like, oh, I was just away for a couple of years for armed robbery. And I'm thinking in my head, that's not too bad. I steal for drugs. And so, Elisa, I continued to date him and just shy of a year later, we ended up getting married. And so I thought, okay. Didn't really take away the things that I was struggling with in dating, maybe marriage is the ticket. Maybe this is my final way of being released of these things that I don't want. And so we got married. And it didn't help. It actually made it more confusing. There was parts of the marriage that, you know, the intimate parts that instead of longing for him intimately in his like, physical body, I longed for his body, wishing his body were mine.
- [20:23]
Alisa Childers
Oh, interesting. That's a very insightful observation.
- [20:27]
Patti Height
Very. And I won't get into details, but it was very, very confusing. And then also within a few weeks, maybe a month or so of the marriage, he began to physically abuse me. And so at that point I just thought that's all men do, they verbally abuse, they sexually abuse, they physically abuse. And that just I hate men from that moment on, while at the same time longing to be one. Now imagine the confusion. And I was 19 years old when I got married, the confusion that I was carrying around. So I wasn't dropping any confusion. I was just more and more confusion coming in my life because I was handling everything in my own strength, with my own wisdom, not having the knowledge of the Lord, not knowing the love of the Lord. And so I stayed in that marriage for a couple of years because I was afraid, I was scared when the real him came out. I was very, very scared. And so after a few years, I was able to get out of that marriage. And that's when I fully came out. Got the job with the airline and fully came out and started.
- [21:32]
Alisa Childers
Because you were a flight attendant for how many years?
- [21:34]
Patti Height
25 years. Wow, that's a long time.
- [21:36]
Alisa Childers
A lot of trauma.
- [21:37]
Patti Height
I'm retired now. If any flight attendants are listening. I thought I was a fly till you die girl, but the Lord brought me out of that and into full time ministry. But yeah, so I came out and I started presenting myself in the masculine. And I will say, Elisa, once I started presenting in the masculine, it was the first time in my life that I felt safe.
- [21:59]
Alisa Childers
Interesting.
- [22:00]
Patti Height
I felt safe presenting in the masculine. Thinking now internally, I'm not doing it, thinking this is the only way I can stay safe. But now I know internally this is the way.
- [22:09]
Alisa Childers
And I suspect that if social media would have existed back then, you'd have been on social media saying, I'm finally my true authentic self, I'm free, I'm.
- [22:16]
Patti Height
I would have had a huge following.
- [22:18]
Alisa Childers
Yeah, you would have.
- [22:19]
Patti Height
I would have been an influencer in that. And so only bought things from the men's department, undergarments, outer garments. I Wore Drakkar. So it was the 90s.
- [22:28]
Alisa Childers
Cause it was Drakkar, right?
- [22:29]
Patti Height
The Drakkar men's cologne. And I felt masculine. And I thought in the masculine, no one's gonna hurt me again. No one's gonna. No man is ever gonna approach me again, and I'm going to be safe. And then as I started identifying as gay and my sexuality is, when I felt freedom for the first time, I felt free because I was no longer saying no to these desires that I'd had probably since I was 9 or 10 years old, but just kept pushing them down and pushing them down. But if nothing else is heard in our time together, I hope this is heard. Just because I felt free doesn't mean I was free. I had a false sense of freedom because it was a false identity that I kept for myself to keep me, you know, pleasured in my sexuality and safe in my gender identity. And that deception stayed with me for a very long time. That deception felt like my home.
- [23:33]
Alisa Childers
I want to ask you a question, and I'm just curious your thoughts on this, because when I hear people's stories, especially people who have experienced, you know, gone through the gender confusion, the sexual confusion, very often there's a sexual abuse background to it. But it seems like from the stories I've heard, when boys are molested by a man, very often that can almost train their sexuality to be directed that way. But for women, it can almost. Does it seem like it has the opposite effect when they're molested by a man? It almost makes them want to. They feel safer with women. I mean, I'm probably not articulating that.
- [24:15]
Patti Height
Right.
- [24:15]
Alisa Childers
But it's very interesting to me that it can have an opposite result, but kind of the same result at the same time.
- [24:23]
Patti Height
Yes. No, you're pretty spot on with that. And Ann Edwards runs a ministry called Restored Hope Network, and I can't think of the name of her book right now, but we'll talk about it later and you can put a link. But she did a study years ago on women that identified as lesbians. So not just all women, just women who identified as lesbians. The amount of them that had been sexually abused. Abused was 80 something percent by a man. By a man? Well, no, just sexually abused. Because some are abused by women.
- [24:55]
Alisa Childers
Yeah.
- [24:56]
Patti Height
80 something percent wouldn't.
- [24:59]
Alisa Childers
Is it mostly, though, men or.
- [25:01]
Patti Height
I mean, it's mostly men, but I know women that were sexually abused by their aunts or somebody like that. Yes. It's just so confusing. Confusing. Abuse is just so horrific. And then she also did a study for men and then it was in the 70 percentile of men that identified as gay that were sexually abused. However, I think those numbers are going up because of the porn addiction and because I think what children are experiencing online is also sexual abuse. It has the same effects even though there's no physical touch. There are young people being sexually abused online all day long throughout predators that know exactly what to say. And so I think those numbers are even higher. And so
- [25:52]
Alisa Childers
quick pause to tell you about our next sponsor, Range leather American made craftsmanship from Wyoming. So in this world of mass produced disposable items, this is where range leather really stands out and stands apart. So every product they craft, from tote bags to purses to wallets, to clutches to belts, to horween leather, full grain leather, apple watch bands to cute little trucker hats with leather patches, to jewelry, every product they craft in their Laramie, Wyoming workshop is built to last a lifetime, just like the values we hold dear. This is a Christian owned company. They have great integrity. And Mother's day is coming up. So maybe you want to try one of their tote bags, which I have. I love that it's nice and big. It fits my computer and anything else I might want to take with me that day. The leather is gorgeous. It wears in, not out. In fact, the more that I use it, the better it looks. The one product I can't live without is my clutch. I've got my iPhone in there, all my receipts, my cards. It's just the perfect little size when I don't want to carry a big bag. So check them out today by going to rangeleather.com, use my code ALISA for 15% off. Again, that's rangeleather.com. use my code ALISA.
- [27:07]
Patti Height
What I've heard a number of men say is when they were abused when they were younger, there was, you know, some stimulation there that they couldn't control, they couldn't help. But if they were, you know, a boy that was like 13 or 14 years old and maybe somebody in a movie theater or someplace else, you know, had that abuse with them as they get older, somehow they bring that into the thought of. That was my rite of passage. That guy was the one that taught me how to enjoy this and lead me into this gay identity. So I don't know where that comes from. I find that interesting and very sad at the same time. And so now I'm out and I think I'm living this great free life. And as sin does it Deceives us into thinking that things are really good. And so I thought my life was great prior to coming out. I didn't have a lot of friends. I felt like an oddball. I felt very different. And as soon as I came out, I became very, very popular. Like, I was, you know, the one in all the bars. You know, my pride just went through the roof. I actually probably had pride for the first time in my life, and it felt really good. And I was an athlete, so I was traveling all over the country doing different sports and just getting a lot of attention and a lot of girlfriends. And so eventually, I'm in my 20s, and then eventually I was in my later 20s thinking that I'm getting really old now and I have to settle down. And so I met this woman working a flight. We were working the same flight, and we ended up, you know, coming together on that flight. And when we got back home, we realized that we really liked each other, and we started dating. And then quickly she moved in, which is not odd, and it's not atypical in a lesbian relationship. And so we started setting up life together. And it's like, this is it. We don't want anybody else. We bought a home together. We exchanged rings. We didn't exchange vows, but we exchanged rings. We had a great life. Everybody at work loved us, Everybody in our neighborhood loved us. And everything was great until it wasn't. And so what? I believe the Lord used to draw me to him, because, again, I did everything in my own strength. And once I came out, it seemed to be working, you know, even though it wasn't. And so 911 happened, Elisa, as a flight attendant.
- [29:55]
Alisa Childers
And you were living in New Jersey.
- [29:56]
Patti Height
I was living in New Jersey. My house was as a crow flies, like, 17 miles from the towers. I was based out of Newark. And so that Tuesday morning, both of us were off that day, and we watched it happen from the tv. We went into our attic and looked out the window and watched the billowing smoke. We went to the park down the street and had to cover our mouths because, you know, the smoke was the smell. It was horrendous. And then we had to get back on airplanes and start working flights again, which was very odd, very hard, very scary. And so death started becoming a part of my everyday thought. Like, is today the day that this is gonna happen to me? Is today the day there's gonna be a terrorist on my flight? And then just a few months after that, my only brother Larry, was diagnosed with lung cancer. And so I would Go to work wondering, am I going to have to break a wine bottle and slice open a terrorist on my flight today? And then on my days off, I would go visit my brother, watching the cancer just eat away at his body. And so one time I went to visit him, and he was so excited. He said, come in and sit down. I have something to tell you. And he was just. His countenance was different than I'd seen. And I'm like, are you in remission? Are you going to be okay? And he's like, no, it has nothing to do with my cancer. It's about Bruce across the street. And I'm like, well, what's going on with Bruce across the street? It's like he's been bringing his Bible over every day. And there's these things in the Bible called the Gospels, and they talk about Jesus and Patty I believe. Wow. And I had no idea what he was talking about. At the same time, I did understand what he was talking about. And so I'm just seeing my brother as the cancer was eating away at him. He was lit up in a way that I had never seen before. And so I was excited for him, while at the same time concerned. And my concern was, is he gonna become like the Christians that I see every year at Pride parades that are holding up signs that say, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or homos will burn in hell, or God hates fags. And so that was my really only understanding of what Christians thought about LGBT people. And so, you know, after a little while, I asked my brother, you know, like, do you think my girlfriend and I are going to go to hell? And he's like, I don't know. Let me ask Bruce. And so, yeah, and he's like, well, do you believe in God? And I'm like, of course I do. You know, God is Mother Nature, God is reincarnation. You know, God is Buddha. But I would never say God is the God of the Bible because of. Really, it's sad to say, but because I would see Christians at the Pride parade waving their Bible in the air. And so if they're telling me that God hates me, it would be silly for me to believe in a God that hated me, right? And so Larry asks Bruce, you know, my sister and her girlfriend say they believe in God. Are they going to go to hell? And Bruce, according to what my brother said, Bruce responded with, larry, if they believe in God, the same God that you and I believe in, that's Jesus. And once they believe in Jesus, they'll be filled with the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit will convict them of truth and righteousness and judgment and will point them to the truth. And they will repent and realize that their relationship isn't where God has called them. And they will go to heaven because they believe in Jesus. But if they don't believe in Jesus, then they don't have that same, you know, access or whatever he said to heaven. But it's because they don't believe in Jesus. It really doesn't have to do with their homosexuality. That's secondary, that God will address, really. It boils down to whether or not they believe in Jesus. And I'd never heard that before. And then just a few weeks after that, as I was holding my brother's hand, he passed away right in front of me. And so that devastated me. It was so, so hard. And my friends and my girlfriend tried to comfort me as best as they could. But when you don't know Jesus, who is the resurrection? It's really hard to comfort somebody when it comes to death. And so I just had a lot of questions rolling around in my heart. But one particular question that I didn't want in my heart. And I tried to just push away and push down, but I couldn't. And I wanted to talk to my girlfriend about this. Cause she's really the only person I trusted. But I knew if I did, she might think that I was trying to break up with her. And so I wake up one morning and I roll over, I look at her, and I just say, babe, do you ever think the way we're living is wrong? Wow. And she just looks at me, and I thought, oh, my goodness, now I've lost my girlfriend. I lost coworkers. I lost my brother. Now I'm gonna lose my girlfriend. Why did I say that out loud? But what felt like an eternity was probably two or three seconds. And she responds with, I can't believe you just asked me that. I was literally just getting ready to ask you the same thing.
- [35:00]
Alisa Childers
Wow.
- [35:01]
Patti Height
And so God in the Holy Spirit, like, I mean, how else can you explain? There's absolutely no way we would wake up and have that conversation just on our own. And so we were both pretty shocked at that. And I just said, I think we should pray. My brother said, prayer was important. Let's get on our knees. And so we just got on our knees and simply said, God, if you're real, will you show us? And if the way we're living is wrong, show us. Wow. And so I'm like. And we're like, now what? I'm like, I don't know. My brother said a Bible was important, too. And she's like, I have one in a box in the attic. And so that same attic that we were watching the towers fall in, we went up and grabbed a Bible out of a box and. And brought it downstairs. And we're just looking. And it's so cool, because I know now that there was a reverence there that I didn't even understand. God's word is so holy. It's his word is life. It's love. It's correction. And so I'm just flipping through the pages having no idea what to do with it. You know, all the gold was still on the edges. And finally I'm like, well, let's just read here. And we did the finger point. And as God would have it, that was Leviticus 18:22, that says, and you shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. And so now, pausing from my story for a second, if I may, it says, it is an abomination. Not, they are an abomination. It is indicating the actual behavior, the same sex behavior. And all the five scripture, not counting Sodom and Gomorrah, the five scriptures that talk about homosexual sexual behavior, always talks about it as a behavior, not an identity. We've brought it in as an identity. The Bible hasn't done that. That's a new cultural concept. And so we saw that, and it's like, do you believe what you just read? Yes, to you. And so miraculously, we believed what we read. But then we're like, but that's talking about men. I'm like, I hate men. I guess you put two together, that's a double whammy of hatred. So maybe God's just talking about men and that, you know, maybe we were okay, but deep inside, we knew that there was more that God had for us. And so my girlfriend comes home from work and said, I flew with Jody today. And I knew she was a Christian. So I asked her if it says anywhere in the Bible about women being together. And she said for me to come home and for us to read Romans chapter one. And now looking back, I love that Jody trusted the word of God enough that just give the address and then go home and pray. Because, you know, we talked to her later. She's like, I just. She's like, that's all the Lord told me to do. She had a Bible in her bag, you know, her flight bag. And she's like that's all God said, just tell them where. And then she went home and prayed. And so we got to Romans, chapter one. Took us a minute to find it. And then when we got to verse 26 and 27, Elisa, this is what we read. For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And so we believed God's word in that moment as well. And we knew we had to find a church. And so we found. Took a couple times, but we found a church. And it's the church that I still go to. And so we woke up one Sunday morning and it's like, you want to go? I was like, let's go. And it was scary because church is filled with Christians, right? But we so long to find out who this God was that was meeting us right where we were, right in the midst of our sin and confusion and self proclaimed identities. And. And so we went into that church that day and you know, I thought I only had men's clothing. So it's not like I put my church clothes on. And we weren't holding hands, we weren't affectionate toward each other, but we looked like a gay couple coming in. And yet we weren't over welcomed and we weren't under welcomed. We walked in just like everybody else and sat down. And as the worship team came out, it was the first time in my life I ever heard worship music. I heard Christmas music and Easter music and I knew the one song Jesus loves me, this I know. But you know, I thought everything was all. Churches were going in and there was a big pipe organ and that's all it was gonna be. You know, I had my preconceived ideas and I love music. Music has always ministered to me wrongly prior to Jesus. But the music softened. My heart was beating through my chest. So the music itself calmed me down. But when the words came up on the. It was the first time that I'd ever heard who God really was. His attributes, his character, his compassion. But then whatever song it was that started talking about how he loved me, it ripped my heart wide open. And I cried. I wept for the first time. I only cried in secret prior to that because crying led. You know, my thoughts were that if you cry, you're vulnerable. And if you're vulnerable, you're gonna get hurt again. And no one's ever gonna hurt you again. And I'm weeping and weeping and weeping. And now I'm arguing. I'm having my first ever argument with God telling him, no, Lord, you can't love me like this. It's not possible. This has happened to me. I've done this, this, and this. And your people tell me that you hate me. And when I tell you that he was overwhelming me with his love, that there's no way that I couldn't receive it and believe it. And so through the worship music, thank you for all those who God is gifted and you walk out in obedience to lead worship at your church. It's a big, big deal. So make sure you're walking right with the Lord because there's people coming in that might be their first time they ever heard worship. And God is allowing you to and your gifts that he's given you to bring that in. So just. Sorry, a quick side note on that. It's a very big deal.
- [41:21]
Alisa Childers
In fact, I want to hang out on that sidebar. I'm sorry, I'm like, you're kidding me. So emotional. Do we have tissues, Mike? I'm like, seven Weeks coffee is America's coffee company. And they are on a mission to fund the pro life movement one cup of coffee at a time. They really stand apart because they are so pro life. In fact, they're called Seven weeks coffee because at seven weeks of gestation, the baby is the size of a coffee bean. And that is when you can clearly detect a heartbeat on the ultrasound. And so they've built their business around this ethic of saving lives by donating 10% of every sale to pregnancy centers and pro life organizations nationwide. They've now raised over a million dollars, and that translates into saving thousands of lives. The coffee is amazing. I'm really picky about what I put into my body, so I really love that. This coffee is mold free, pesticide free, shade grown, low acid, organically farmed. It truly checks all the boxes. So go to 7weekscoffee.com today and when you subscribe, you're gonna save 50, 15% forever, plus get a free gift. But if you use my code Alisa, you're going to get an additional 10 off your first order. So that's 25% total savings on that first order plus your free gift. So go to seven weeks coffee.com today. Use my code ALISA. Again, seven weeks coffee.com use my code ALISA. I. There's just so much in what You've said so far, that has just touched me so much because, you know, I feel like I'm the. The lifer. Right. I've been to church my whole life and then I struggle sometimes with cynicism about church and just hearing your story. We weren't under welcomed. We weren't over welcomed. It's such a word for us lifers that we're. Thank you. We're going to have people be coming in to our churches that aren't going to look like a, you know, proper Southern Baptist on the Sunday morning. And I've said this even on X before, but we're gonna have people be walking in who still bear the scars in their bodies of medical transition. And we need to be ready. And like you said, we need to be living right. We need to be singing songs that are theologically rich and correct, that properly and correctly convey the gospel, because you just never know who's sitting in the audience. There could be a Patty out there that is open to the Lord and it just matters so much how we are in our service. And I love too just that the first Christian you guys asked didn't pull punches. You know, she's like, lord, what do I do? And it's like Romans 1, read it. And you read the word of God for yourself, which is living and active. And it did the work. And the Holy Spirit did the work.
- [44:11]
Patti Height
It's sharp and it's sharp.
- [44:13]
Alisa Childers
Yes. And that doesn't mean that it would be wrong to, you know, to say more, but in that instance, that's what, you know, the Holy Spirit used and. Yeah, that's just so powerful. I feel like that scene in the Grinch, you know, when he's like, I'm leaking that scene. Yeah. Wow. I was not prepared for all of this, but keep going because this is so good.
- [44:35]
Patti Height
Well, can I share just something? And I don't know if this is. Do it theologically sound, but it blesses my heart. And sometimes when I go speak at churches and I'm back in prayer with the worship team and such, I try to encourage them with this verse. It's in 1st Chronicles, chapter 25, verse 1 says, Moreover, David and the captains of the army separated for the service. Some of the sons of Asaph, of Heman and of Jeduthin. And here it is. Who should prophesy with harps, strings, instruments and. And symbols and prophesy in the sense of bringing forth God's already written word. And so, you know, that brings. Opens the heart to receive the word of God and That's what happened to me that day.
- [45:23]
Alisa Childers
And music does it sort of it. And this can be used for good or evil, but music does sort of disarm you in a certain sense. It breaks down your barriers. And so that's why I was saying, like, worship, people. Let's make sure our songs are theologically correct, because we can be lulled into false doctrine through music, but we can also. Our hearts can come alive with emotional connection to the gospel through music.
- [45:49]
Patti Height
And it was in January of 2003 when I got saved. And you were in the music world yourself then. And the songs that we sang on Sunday morning were very different than some of the songs in recent, you know, times. But my church is coming back to those, like, late 1990s, early 2000s. Yeah, there was some good stuff back there. And one song that really, it was. They played it often during those first years of being saved is Here I Am to worship. Oh, yeah, I loved that song. So, anyway, so hearing the worship led me to be able to receive the word of God as the pastor opened the Word that day. And I go to a church that does expository teaching. So verse by I versed through the whole Bible, and my heart was open and ready to receive the truth of God's word. And then at the end, the. The pastor offered an opportunity to pray with anyone that didn't have a relationship with the Lord yet. And I had no idea what he was talking about, but my heart was beating through my chest. And I'm like, man, it's been like a week since I've done any cocaine. Like, why is my heart beating like this? Because I was addicted to drugs for 24 years before I got saved. Lived my life able to do drugs and have a very good career at the same time, which is crazy, and I'm so thankful to be free of that. But I came back the next week, and the music, the crying, the word of God and the invitation, and I understood what the pastor was talking about. And so it was decision time. And I walked out. I was like, after all the Lord had been doing already, I was just like. Because I knew, even without, I guess fully the spirit of the living God dwelling inside of me at that point, I knew that it meant no more life like I was living, and no more identity, no more identifying with that life anymore. But the third week, it was January 19th of 2003, the pastor was saying, if there's anyone that wants to. And I just looked at my girlfriend and the last three words I ever said as someone who identified as gay, was, I'm going up. And I got up and I just walked to the front, and it was just me and Jesus, and it's a large church. And I heard the pastor's voice, you know, leading me in prayer, which some people are indifferent about, that I needed that. I had no idea really how to pray myself, but the Lord would have, you know, allowed me to pray myself.
- [48:15]
Alisa Childers
We can get so rigid in our things. Like. Yes, I would agree. It's not repeating words that saves you. You would agree with that, too, I'm sure. But there's nothing wrong with leading someone in a prayer.
- [48:27]
Patti Height
Exactly right.
- [48:28]
Alisa Childers
There's nothing wrong with that. And also, there can be a lot of good in it, too, to, like you say, help them if they don't know how to pray. And. Yeah, so I'm with you on that.
- [48:36]
Patti Height
Yeah. So I'm just crying out, you know, father, which was a. Father's a big word for me or was, father, forgive me of my sins, Jesus. Be my Lord and my Savior and fill me with your Holy Spirit. And in an instant, everything changed. I felt this heaviness lift off me. I went from darkness to light, from deception to truth. Truth that God loved me and that truth sets me free, as John chapter eight talks about. And I was just like. My eyes were open, and it's like I was really seeing for the first time. And then they said, you know, if you want to get additional prayer and get a Bible, you know, join us back in this room. And so I went back there, and that's when I looked, because again, and I thought it was just me and Jesus. And that's when I looked and saw my girlfriend had done the same thing. So we walked in as lovers and left as sisters in Christ, never to be with each other again intimately, in any way, shape, or form. We went home, and it wasn't like, oh, no, I'm gonna miss you. Just one more hug. It was. We went home. As God is real, we're his. Let's get you set up in the spare bedroom. And after, like, a week or so, you know, she bought. She's like, I got a gift for you. I bought you a tv, because I don't want you coming in here and watching TV with me. This is my bedroom. Now, that's, you know, not in a harsh way, but, you know, this is your room over here. But, you know, we'd wake up in the morning and we'd meet together in different part of the house and pray together. And then, you know, and The Lord's not like, you're not allowed to pray together anymore. That part of your, you know, you're not a couple. He's so gentle and leads and guides and directs every step of the way. So she'd go out on the back porch and read the Word, and I'd go out on the front porch and we were so excited in the Word of God. We'd meet in the dining room. It's like, let me tell you what I read today. And she's like, no, you went first yesterday, I get to go first today. And so I devoured the Word of God. I read through the whole Bible by September, read through the New Testament again by the end of the year. And I've been devouring the Word of God ever since, you know, And. And so it was. It was a complete 180. Everything changed. Everything changed. And I wanted to know as much as I could about this God who saved me. And that's why I read the Word. I wanted to know about him. I learned about myself through learning about him. But I wanted to know who this God was that met me right where I was. And so, you know, I thought, you know, I would never have a thought of being with another woman other than the woman that was once my girlfriend. And since I knew I was never gonna be with her again, I thought, well, this is it. I'm never gonna have same sex attraction again. This is what I've been longing for in my own strength my whole life. Here it is. I'm done. I'm good. So, you know, the spring came and I was in a women's flag football league. And so the woman that was my girlfriend once my girlfriend, I never share her name. And so. Sorry that it sounds odd.
- [51:41]
Alisa Childers
No, not at all.
- [51:41]
Patti Height
To express it that way, but, you know, we went to the flag football game, and afterwards, driving home, she's like, hey, I have to tell you something you're not going to like. I'm like, whoa, what's going on? Did I have a bad play? Like, what's going on? She's like, you were flirting with that girl on the other team. And I was so offended. I'm like, no, I wasn't. That part of my life is over. Hello. We got saved the same day. You know, it's gone. It's just gone. And she's like, like, no, you were. I know you. You were flirting with her. And so I was in my pride. I was just like, well, I'm going to go home and pray. And then I'm going to tell you that the Lord said I wasn't, you know, and so I went home and I prayed and gently. The Lord is. You were, you were flirting with her. But we're going to work on that. We're going to walk together through this. I'm going to show you, like, the
- [52:32]
Alisa Childers
journey of sanctification as you go.
- [52:34]
Patti Height
I hadn't even heard the word sanctification at that point. And so I went downstairs and I'm like, you were right. I was, I'm scared. What do I do? Am I going to be okay? She's like, I don't know. Let's pray. I mean, we were brand Spanish. It was like March. We were saved three months. And so that's, you know, as I was growing in the Lord, I just started asking him, lord, where have I been deceived? You know, I thought I would have sworn up and down that I was born this way. I was born this way. You know, card carrying LGBT member, right? I'm like, well, I know I wasn't born this way. So please show me where all of this deception came. Please show me where I believed lies and replace it with your truth. And he would, he would reveal the deception and heal it with his truth. And that sometimes it would take months, sometimes it was just a quick, oh, that's it. Oh, okay. But reveal and heal. Reveal and heal, over and over and over again. Like the beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness. Because sometimes the things that he revealed were heavy. You know, the remembrance of the abuse that I buried under massive amount of drugs for 24 years. After, maybe like a year, a year and a half, just slowly he started addressing some of these things. That's when he started showing me about how I detached from my mom. And he gently ministered to me step by step, in his patience and in his glory, really. And so there's complete healing now, Elisa, and it's available to anyone. You gotta go through the reveal and heal. And it is not easy, but it's worth it. It's worth it.
- [54:22]
Alisa Childers
Well, praise God. You know, you mentioned that when you first came out, you were very popular, you had a lot of friends. It was like the first time in your life you felt open and free. What was it like going from that community that had so accepted you and loved you to the church community, the Christian community? Was it a bit of a shock or.
- [54:47]
Patti Height
It was, it was a shock. While at the same time excited, because I was so excited to be his that everything, my whole life was brand new. And yet at the same time, you know, there was a struggle thinking, how am I going to fit in with these church women? Like, am I going to. And my church was just, you know, it's a church where, you know, it's casual dress. And so these, you know, I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm going to have to wear long skirts and a bonnet, and I'm going to have to learn how to knit, and, oh, my gosh, I don't know how to cook. Like, am I going to fit in? And just through getting to know women at church and really starting to serve at church and making friends through serving in the same types of ministries, the Lord brought in women that are still my friends 24, 23, 24 years later, they're still in my life. We're still very good friends. And these women have never been through sexual abuse. They've never had same sex attraction or gender confusion. They have families, they have children now, grandchildren. And we just walked alongside each other as very different, like lawyers and teachers and, you know, flight attendant. Just all types of different women and economic status. And we just all became very close. And so they didn't see me as someone like, oh, poor Patty. She came out of the LGBT community. We have to be gentle with her. We have to make sure we say the right things around her. We were just friends. And so. But my friends from the LGBT community that I really loved and cared about, I still wanted them in my life, but they now rejected me. And so, you know, I told them, you know, my girlfriend, you know, and I got saved. And they were just like, oh, well, we know you went through a hard time with your brother's death, so whatever works for you. And then, you know, for a while, our closest friends would invite us over for dinner. And it's, you know, hey, you know, do you want to be or do you want to cocktail and, no, I don't drink anymore. Oh, that's right. I forgot. So just a glass of wine. Like, no, I don't drink anymore. And then we realized that they didn't understand that when we said we weren't together anymore, that it meant we weren't identifying anymore. And so we gathered our friends together to tell them, you know, we had dinner, and then at the end of dinner, we just said, hey, we have a big announcement to make. We have something that we have to tell you guys that we're pretty sure you don't know. And my one friend Lisa, she's like, Are you guys gonna have a baby? And it's like, okay. They really don't get it. Really don't know. Yeah. And so, you know, I explained to them God's word and how we didn't identify that way anymore and what the Bible says about it, and they did not respond to that very well.
- [57:35]
Alisa Childers
That's so fascinating to me because it's like a reverse coming out. And the very way you're supposed to respond when somebody comes out, it's like, did not happen.
- [57:46]
Patti Height
Yeah. Even my parents were upset when I came out as a Christian. Wow. Yeah. So, you know what.
- [57:52]
Alisa Childers
What was their response when you came out as a lesbian?
- [57:54]
Patti Height
I was like, oh, yeah, okay, well, whatever makes you happy. We kind of thought maybe, you know,
- [58:01]
Alisa Childers
so they were fine with that. But not so much when you came
- [58:03]
Patti Height
out as a. Yeah, just go live your life. And my dad wrote me a little letter, says, okay, what? Great, whatever. Just don't lose your smile. You're always smiling, you know, don't lose that. And I was like, all right, great. But their response when I got saved was, you know, your girlfriend is the best thing that's ever happened to you. You finally settled down. You're living a great life now. How could you believe in a God that says, that's wrong? How could you believe in a God that says, the love that you have isn't the right kind of love? And so they were really upset. Wow. And it took a number of years to see the change in my life and the joy in my life and the new relationship that I had with her that was better than it ever was when we were together as girlfriends. And as God would have it, my parents got saved, and then my sister got saved, and her husband is saved now. And so my brother and my parents are both gone to be home with the Lord. And it's just my sister and I left. But now we get to share and, you know, our sisterhood as Christians as well. And so it's just, I'm so blessed, Elisa. And, you know, I've gone through things in my life, but I can look back now and see the Lord was there the whole time. He never leaves us or forsakes us. And even some of the things, as a Christian, you know, walking through the reveal and heal very hard in ministry now, getting, you know, death threats for proclaiming my story and all that, it's been hard, but I just have the best life. And the Lord and I joke and sometimes just talking with him, walking around the house, it's like, okay, Lord, does everybody know I'm your favorite, or is that just a secret between us? And I think we should all have that heart. Right?
- [59:51]
Alisa Childers
Just.
- [59:52]
Patti Height
God shows no partiality of favorites, but it feels that way.
- [59:56]
Alisa Childers
It. I think that that's a fatherly thing, because my dad, we always had this joke. In fact, at his funeral, we talked about this. Me and a couple of my sisters spoke at his funeral. And the thing that we all had with my dad is he'd let everybody know whoever is in the room with me is my favorite. So at some point, you were always like, hey, how's my favorite? And then. And so when we introduced ourselves at his funeral, I'd be like, well, I'm Elisa, and I was his favorite. You know?
- [60:21]
Patti Height
Each one of you.
- [60:22]
Alisa Childers
Yeah, each one of us. And we all knew that. That he had no favorite, but that. That that would be said. So I was reminded of that when you were saying that. Because that is the Father's heart. Is that you feel like the favorite.
- [60:31]
Patti Height
Yeah.
- [60:32]
Alisa Childers
Even though he shows no partiality. So that's really beautiful.
- [60:35]
Patti Height
He's so intimate. You will never have a more intimate relationship with anyone than with the Lord. Wow. Yeah.
- [60:41]
Alisa Childers
So you. We've talked about some of the things the church did right. And if you want to share more of that, please do. But was there anything maybe that happened that obviously I know you're grateful and you love the people that you had community with in the beginning, but was there anything they did wrong that those of us who are preparing week by week to embrace people and to share the gospel with people that maybe some pitfalls we could avoid, like, what did the church do right and what did they do wrong?
- [61:12]
Patti Height
Can I share a quick right story? Yeah, please. Okay. So these friends that I had now at church, we'd get together. One was a associate pastor's wife, one was an elder's wife. But we all served in youth ministry together. And so we get together and pray. And for a few months, the Lord had been asking me to pray something. And I just want to preface this with I loved being obedient to God. Never in my life did I enjoy obedience. I was the epitome of disobedience. But whatever the Lord said to do, I did. Whatever said to, he said to let go of, I did. Because he was God, he was real, and he loved me. And it's like, anything, Father, just thank you for letting me be yours. And so at one point, I felt like he ministered to my heart and said, I want you to pray and ask me what it is to be a woman. And for me, the gender issues were way deeper and more difficult than the same sex attractions. And so I'm like, I have to be obedient in this. But I'm so scared. I was already living in my own apartment by this point. And so I'm just like, okay. And I would just lay flat before the Lord and be like, lord, will you please show me what it is to be a. And I couldn't get the word woman out. I'm like, he's going to answer this prayer, and I'm going to fail at it, or I'm not going to like it, or it's going to be the long skirt and bonnet. You know, I had no idea. And yet I was so disappointed that I couldn't get the word woman out. So I'm like, I'll spell it, Lord, will you show me what it is to be a W. O? And every time I got to the M, my voice would start to shake, and I was so disappointed. And so this one time, praying with my friends Michelle and Christine, you know, Michelle gives her needs and we pray, Christine gives her prayer needs and we pray. And it's my turn, and I give my prayer needs. But Christine goes, I feel like there's something you're holding back on Patti. I'm like, wow, okay, Lord, you really want me to ask for help? Excuse me? Help. And so I'm like, there's something that the Lord wants me to pray that I just can't do it. I'm afraid. Will you pray it for me? And so I just said, will you pray and ask the Lord to show me what it is to be? And I couldn't get the word woman out. So I just ripped off a sheet of paper with a shaky hand. I wrote the word woman. I slid it across the table, and they just started crying and praying. And that's the first and the last time I heard them pray for that. But they prayed every day. They prayed right in that moment, exactly what I asked them. Lord, please show Patty what it is to be a woman. They never said, we're gonna help you. We're gonna take you to the store. We're gonna teach you how to wear makeup. We're gonna put earrings in. We're gonna do. We're. We're. We're gonna do this. They didn't. They asked the Lord to show me what it was to be a woman that one time and never spoke of it again. But they told me years later that they prayed every day for it. And as they saw the change and, you know, the outward change of what the Lord was doing internally, they're like, you know, wait, we don't have to pray this anymore. So that is a really good example of what to do. Pray and trust the Lord to do the work. Now, if the person asks, will you help me? Then by all means you walk alongside them.
- [64:28]
Alisa Childers
Because, you know, I was just thinking in my mind, like, it would be so tempting, like, if it were me, I think I would be the one that would be like, let me help you. We'll go to the mall, Come to my closet.
- [64:36]
Patti Height
Exactly.
- [64:37]
Alisa Childers
But what could, you know, the. What could potentially happen there is like, I could be superimposing my style upon you that isn't have anything to do with being a woman, but it's just the way that I express it. And I could have imposed that on you and caused even more kind of trouble for you, you know, because it might look different for you because being a woman isn't the shade of lipstick you wear or the, you know, the exact Jean jacket you pick out. So, yeah, it sounds like they had a lot of wisdom.
- [65:01]
Patti Height
They did. Yeah. I'm so thankful for who the Lord brought into my life and friendships and that segues into what can be seen or done that might be unhelpful or even wrong. And so, you know, I hadn't. I about. I think I lived in the same house with my now ex girlfriend for about a year, but about maybe six months, seven months in, I was at a. A woman's function at church and there's always food involved. So I grab my plate and I go sit down next to an assistant pastor's wife. And I'm like, hey, can I sit here? And she's like, yes, please. Oh, please sit down. I've been wanting to get to know you and become your friend so that, oh boy, I can tell you you need to move out of the house. And I thought, that's the only reason you want to be my friend. Like, I bring nothing else to the table except you telling me what I have to do. But I didn't say anything because I was afraid. And I just sat there feeling defeated the whole time. I had no idea what she said after that point. Those were the only words I heard. So when the Lord did start speaking to my heart about it was time to move out of the house, I didn't know if it was her voice or the Lord's voice or my voice. And so. So there was a little bit of time that it Was difficult to really discern whose voice it was until the Lord did miraculous things to get me out of the house because we were getting pay cuts at work because of the fuel prices after our 9, 11 and all of that, I'm like, I don't want to leave her with this big house on her own, and how am I going to afford my own place? And then the Lord just laid out all these miraculous things. And so I knew it was him, but it was. I had to battle through whose voice it was that I was actually hearing.
- [66:55]
Alisa Childers
And, you know, my immediate thought when I heard you say that is, aren't you so thankful that we have biblical authority? But in your situation, there's a bit of gray there, right? There's not a Bible verse that directly addresses whether or not you should have moved out that week or before or at all, considering what the Lord had done in your situation. So it requires a lot of wisdom, a lot of biblical application. And for somebody who. Who doesn't know you, who had already decided what was right for you, I can see why that would bring some confusion into the mix there.
- [67:29]
Patti Height
Yeah, yeah, that was very, very difficult. And there were some women, not many, but some that would come up. Cause I still had very short, spiky hair, which I loved. And it was very easy as a flight attendant to get ready, but they would come up and they would kind of caress the side of my head and then reach my ears and like, oh, you're so beautiful. If just we could put a few earrings right here. And so you know what? I knew that I can't have pierced ears, no matter what the metal is, because I get infected. And I'm like, okay, well, maybe God healed me because he wants me to be this outwardly appearing woman. So let me go get my ears pierced. And I got the best metal that I could find. And within a week, the infection was going all down my neck. And then it's like, you know what it did? Maybe I'm really not a woman. Real women can have pierced ears. And then some of the women are like, you need to grow out your hair. And so I tried to grow out my hair. You know, not. You were trying very much. I mean, I did grow it out, but trying to figure out what to do with it growing out. And so I bought a hair dryer, which I didn't have a hairdryer. And then I'm, you know, like, which hand do you hold the hairdryer in? Which hand is the brush? Which hand is like.
- [68:43]
Alisa Childers
Like.
- [68:43]
Patti Height
And then the enemies Coming in, real women know which hand to hold the hair dryer in, you know, So I just got angry and, you know, chucked the hair dryer, you know, across the room and cut my hair probably shorter than it been in. Even when I identified as a gay woman.
- [68:59]
Alisa Childers
It can be tempting for the Christian to. And we have to be reminded of this, especially us lifers that have been church our whole lives. We have to remember that perfect sanctification doesn't happen for anybody on this side of heaven, but especially doesn't happen overnight. I have shared this story before where I worked in an inner city church in Manhattan in the Lower east side. And there were people who had just gotten saved, and they, the day before had been prostitutes and drug addicts. And so they're on the church steps smoking a cigarette because they just haven't gotten there yet, you know, and so we have to have some grace for the sanctification process in people, because it's not gonna be overnight. Like, I don't know what people would expect. I'm sure there are some Christians out there listening, going, you guys went back and still lived in the same house for another day or two. And it's like, well, things just aren't that simple when you own a house and you have to work things out, and then the Holy Spirit's working on this thing and hasn't quite got to this thing yet. And that's part of the sanctification process. And so we need to have a lot of grace for people as they walk that through. And it's not always like. I think these specific examples are so important because, like, again, I'm just going back to scripture. There's no scripture that says women have to have pierced ears. That's just. That's a. That's a cultural thing. It's not wrong to have pierced ears. It's. You know, the Bible does talk about not letting our beauty come from those kinds of things, from braided hair and all that. Not that it's wrong to have braided hair, but you don't have to have braided hair to be a woman. So it's, you know, and that's where Genesis 1 is so beautiful, where it. It talks about really the function and design of our bodies. And this is something I think is so important for parents to share with their children, is that you are a girl because this is how your body is designed. You're a boy because this is how your body is designed. And you might not like the color pink. And that doesn't matter because That's a cultural thing that we have associated with being female. And so I really appreciate you bringing out some of those examples because in our overly helpful state, we'd be like, you need earrings, caddy. And that's probably. It just doesn't even matter. So that's so important. Well, Patty, thank you for this. I know that it's encouraging everybody who listened. And truly my prayer is that when people listen to this story, it will breathe life into their hearts to know that there's hope that you don't have to identify as a gay person even after you become a Christian. You know, we've talked about, just in private together about side B and how, how deceptive that can be. And we've got episodes on that if people don't know what I'm talking about. But I love your story because you are living proof that God can set people free and have true and real joy in following Christ and having relationship with Christ. So thank you so, so, so much for, for sharing your story. It just breathed life into this old crusty Christian's heart and I just loved it and I appreciate it so much. What I wanna ask you just as we close out is I wanna make sure we repeat where people can connect with you and your ministry. Anything you wanna talk about that you're working on, and then we'll close it out.
- [72:02]
Patti Height
Well, great. And it's been such a blessing having this time together. Thank you so much. So the ministry where I travel and share and speak is out of Egypt Ministries. So there's a website, outofegyptministries.org, tons of media on there. If you're a parent, a struggler, or there's resources on there that talk about different things. I don't know if I want to open this up or not, but anime and things that draw our kids into trans identities, resources, books, all of that. And it's outofegyptministries.org or if you want me to come and share at your school, at your church, at your youth event. I have such a heart for youth and young people. And so just go to the booking there. And the Lord has just started a podcast, which is exciting and really scary at the same time.
- [72:59]
Alisa Childers
And what's that called?
- [72:59]
Patti Height
That is called Distinct by Design.
- [73:01]
Alisa Childers
Distinct by Design with Patti Hight.
- [73:03]
Patti Height
It's faith, sexuality and gender Distinct by design. And soon either, you know, in the next weeks or months, hopefully you will be a guest on that. And so that will be a little more open, a little more raw and Real that, you know, I would say from more of a speaking platform at a church or whatever. And so we'll get into the nitty gritty. Have a lot of topics there like rapid onset gender, dysphoria, furries, anime, the abuse factor, the drug and alcohol abuse factor. So much a lot of guests on that. So go to distinct by design on all the platforms and check it out and keep coming to see the new episodes. And please if you would pray for me and these ministries because I just sit before the Lord and Lord, you know, I don't, you know, I know I love you. I love your word and I love people and take that and do what you want to with it. So I need his wisdom, I need his strength. I just need him to guide me. And so if you could pray, if you think of it, pray for me for that. That I would be in the Lord's will with that.
- [74:11]
Alisa Childers
That's great.
- [74:12]
Patti Height
Great.
- [74:12]
Alisa Childers
Well, I want to thank my guest, Patty Height. Boy, I was so encouraged by today's conversation. I really want to encourage you to check out her ministry. If you know anybody who is struggling with same sex attraction or the way that they their mind is feeling about their biological sex, please send this episode to them. And even if I think this would be a great episode to send to somebody who it, you know, like Patty was perfect, is perfectly happy in their gay identity and maybe the Lord and the Holy Spirit can disrupt that in a beautiful way. And so I really pray that the Lord uses this episode. Please do pray for Patty and pray for me. And let's remember as we pursue Christ, to keep a sharp mind, a soft heart and a thick skin. Left will make it through
- [75:08]
Patti Height
the road
- [75:08]
Alisa Childers
that narrow and the gate that small.
- [75:14]
Patti Height
Don't give up.
- [75:15]
Alisa Childers
It's gonna be worth it.