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The Autism Little Learners Podcast
#174: What Echolalia Is Really Telling You: A Gestalt Language Processing Conversation with Nicole Casey, SLP (Encore)
01:26:40
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- [00:00]
A
Nicole Casey is a speech language pathologist who, like me, has a passion for working with autistic kids. In recent years, she's taken a deep dive into learning more about Gestalt language processing. I know that's something we all want to know more about. The thing about Nicole is that she doesn't hold back and her love for what she does shines through. During this podcast interview, we started sharing stories and examples with each other and then the next thing we knew, it was an hour and 20 minutes later. So this episode, this episode is going to be extra long, but in all the best ways. You're going to love Nicole as much as I do. After listening today, let's jump in. Hi, I'm Tara and this is the Autism Little Learners podcast. I am a speech language pathologist with a twist. I run my own communication based classroom for over two decades and and I'm so excited to share actionable tips and strategies for supporting young autistic children. My goal is to help you feel more confident and successful when teaching your autistic child or students at the early childhood level. If you are ready to learn some tried and true strategies that really work, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Foreign. Hi there, Nicole. Welcome to the Autism Little Learners Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here because recently we've been doing some chatting in the DMS and I've been absolutely loving all of your content on Instagram. So welcome to the show.
- [01:47]
B
Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited. This is such a fun, fun thing to do.
- [01:53]
A
I agree. It's just so great to be able to talk to people that we're kind of becoming virtual friends with and actually be able to hear their voice, look at them, even if it's on zoom, and just be able to get to know each other a little bit.
- [02:09]
B
Yeah. I really appreciate you asking me to be here.
- [02:12]
A
Yeah, I'm honored. So tell us a little bit about who Nicole is and what you do. Yeah.
- [02:18]
B
So I'm Nicole Casey. I am a speech language pathologist from right outside of Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. I've been an SLP for 10 years, which sounds outrageous to me because I still feel like I'm 21. I'm not. And I've spent my whole career working with autistic students and started my private practice a few years ago where I work predominantly with autistic clients and also a mom of two beautiful babies. One's not so much a baby anymore, he's three. And then my daughter is Nine months. So, yeah, have my hands full, then I'm on social media. That was a new. A new venture for me. It was never intended to. To end up this way, but I'm so glad it did because I've gotten to meet so many, many amazing people.
- [03:12]
A
Yeah, and I'm so glad it ended up that way too, that your account kind of blew up because you just provide such valuable information. And I, like, you, have worked with autistic kids my entire career. And it wasn't something I set out to do because back then in, oh, gosh, what year was it? You know, 1996, 1997, I was not learning anything about autism in undergrad or grad school. Like, we maybe had one class, but then when I did my student teaching, that's where I was introduced, and it never turned back. Like, I went from being a little fearful because everyone's like, you know, what is autism at that time? To being like, oh, my gosh, I love these kids so much. And it just is something I became really passionate about. So I love talking to someone who also has had that autism focus for their whole career.
- [04:13]
B
Yeah, it's. It's definitely been a journey. And I remember the first time I ever worked with an autistic person. And his name is Cole. I hope his mom will hear this at some point. But meeting him, I was in grad school and I was working as a home support person with Cole. And at the time, oh, gosh, he was young, he was little, maybe in elementary school, and I would go over, help him get ready for school in the morning, get him on the bus. And all the while I was in graduate school for speech pathology. So I was learning not much on how to support autistic people, but I was learning so much from him and his family. And they really just took me in with open arms and became like a second family to me. And Cole and I became besties. And we were like, Cole squared, I used to say. And. And really, if I think about Cole now, I mean, now, Gosh, he's probably 20 at this point, or 21. I don't know. He's older. He's older than that, probably. I feel like time has just alone. But if I think back to some of the things that Cole did, he was a Gestalt language processor, and, you know, he has an AAC device. He also had some spoken language as well. But really it was about the way that we connected and bonded that ultimately made me realize that I want to learn as much as I can about supporting Neurodivergent learners. And that's ultimately what I ended up doing for my whole career. And I've never, never wanted to change that or. Or go in any other direction. So I'm just. I feel really thankful to have met him and. And his family really changed the trajectory, I think, of my future, my career.
- [06:14]
A
Absolutely. I love that story because I feel like for a lot of us that have become so passionate about speaking about autism, working with autistic kids, coming up with resources and that kind of thing, I think we can. A lot of us can relate it back to, like, a student or a family impacting us and teaching us. My first kindergarten student who was autistic, he. When I was at the elementary level. His name's Willie, and you're gonna laugh at this. He is now this month turning 31 years old.
- [06:53]
B
My gosh.
- [06:54]
A
And so he still comes and trick or treats at my house every year. And I got remarried a couple years ago, and he sang at my wedding. So there's those. Those kids, whether you still see them or not, that impact, like you said, the trajectory of your career. And that's kind of like he. His parents were learning about autism, I was learning about autism, and he taught me. And, yeah, I mean, thinking of those kids just warms your heart.
- [07:28]
B
It does. And it's. It. I mean, Cole's mom was his biggest advocate, and she. Way that she supported him and still, you know, encouraged him to do all the things that he could do and that he wanted to do and that he enjoyed. And just seeing that, I think, within their home and then learning about it in school and then moving on in my career, to be able to work in an approved private school with, you know, all neurodivergent learners. Yeah, for me, was exactly where I needed to be. And I've always had that drive to know more and to do better once I know more. And I think that has allowed me to become the clinician that I am now, because I think that it's easy to just get, you know, comfortable in the way that you do things and not want to change or move forward or have to relearn or unlearn things. But I think part of just the way that I operate as a person is being willing to be flexible and. And try something new and when new information comes along to adapt it, if it's. If it fits. And so that has been a blessing for me, too, just to be in a. You know, in a time where all of this information is so readily available too.
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A
I just.
- [08:50]
B
I Don't know what people did before the Internet and before being able to do something like this where we can connect and learn from each other. I mean, yeah, I think it's a. It's a. It's a blessing, for sure.
- [09:02]
A
Yeah, really well said, all of that, and especially when you're talking about needing to learn and unlearn different techniques. You know, being in the field for 25 years, there's been a lot of unlearning in the last five years and learning new techniques or new strategies or ways that we look at things. And so one of those things is gestalt language processing. Even though the idea of this, the research on it has been around for a long time, it's really gaining a lot of traction now. And that's why I wanted to talk to you, because I think there's other educators out there, whether they're a special education teacher working with preschool kids or they are a speech language pathologist. Gestalt language processing, even, like, saying those words can be hard. You know, remember, at first you're like, is it gestalt or gestalt or how do I say it? And really, it doesn't matter. Right. How we say it. But this is one of those things that I just thought the listeners of this podcast would really be interested in learning about. I think when you're relearning something or learning a new. A new strategy technique, it takes a lot of hearing it several times before the concepts really start to stick. And so whether this is an introduction for some people to gestalt language processing and you're ready to learn more or if you just needed this, like, another dose of it to help you understand it, I'm just so glad I have Nicole here to kind of fill us in on what gestalt language processing is. So let's start with that. Can you kind of explain what it is and how it differs from what we would call analytic language processing?
- [10:58]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So I am with you on it being a mouthful. And even up until a few months ago, I kind of switched it up with how I pronounce it. I used to say gestalt, and I put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. And then the more I said it and heard others say it, I'm like, huh, I think I'm saying it wrong. And then I'm still not always 100% sure that I am saying it exactly as it's intended, but I say gestalt language processing. And yeah, I think for a lot of us, the. The term is new. We've not been really taught about this. But like you said, the concept, the idea is not new. But I also think that for as new as the terminology feels, it fits with what we've all been seeing. And so I think that's what's kind of propelled it to move forward and to ultimately be so, you know, present when you go to look things up on social media or you're just kind of scrolling and you're. You're hearing about it more often. I think it's because it makes sense, and it is what a lot of us are seeing when we're supporting autistic kids. And, you know, we believe that many, if not most autistic individuals are gestalt language processors. But you can be a GLP and be neurotypical or just not be autistic as well. But, you know, I focus more on supporting autistic people because, like, we just talked about what I'm. What I'm doing. But I think it's important to kind of understand that, you know, when we think about the way that humans acquire language, we typically think of a process which is what you just brought up, analytic language development. So that's where a baby will start with a single word, and then they will begin to combine them into two word phrases. And as they develop and grow, those phrases will turn into sentences, and then they will keep practicing, keep getting a little bit more communicative, and ultimately they'll be at a conversational level. So they go from single words to conversation. And that's one way of acquiring language. And I think a lot of us thought that was the only way of acquiring language. But research has identified or shown us that there are. There is another way of developing language. And that's what we're talking about when we say gestalt language processing or gestalt language development. So gestalt language development is just another way of acquiring language, and it's also a natural developmental process. So just like analytic language development is, so is gestalt language development. But instead of starting with single words that each have their own meaning, a gestalt language processor starts out with strings of intonationally defined language that they've actually lifted from another source. So these are their language gestalts. And those gestalts have traditionally been called scripts or delayed echolalia. But it's important to remember that language gestalts for our GLPs are often tied to an emotional or otherwise meaningful context or experience that they've had. And then they kind of take that language and associate the whole experience with it. So the gestalt encompasses that whole emotional context or experience. So, for example, you might have a child who, when they feel happy or excited, they say, we're saying, you know, if you're happy and, you know, clap your hands. And for them, that is not each word. That's not if you're happy. It's if you're happy and, you know, clap your hands. It's. Yeah, you know, it's an intonation defined string. And in that case, the string of words. For some kids, it's humming a tune of a song that they like, or it's using what we previously might have called jargon, which is really, oftentimes an early glp trying to produce their gestalt that's a little bit too complex for their system, whether it's because they don't have the motor skills yet to produce, you know, gosh, the whole episode of Paw Patrol is what they're trying to say, or it's just that they have other motor planning challenges at play. And so it's also important to know that a gestalt is usually non literal. And so we can't just take it at face value. For example, I have a child who will come in and when he sees something in my office that he really likes or that he wants to play with or just something that he's interested in, he'll go, hey, what are you doing here? He says it like that every single time because that's his gestalt. And it doesn't mean that he's greeting somebody. It doesn't mean that he's asking them that question. He's. What he means with that is like, oh, I see something I like. I want to play with that thing. And so as his communication partner, we. And you know, as being part of his communication team, we've had to really tune in and try to uncover the meaning that's beneath the surface level of those gestalts, because they're not literal. And, you know, the child is using them to convict, meaning that sometimes only they really know, but we can start to do a little bit of the investigating to figure out. And so, you know, you're. If you are a professional supporting a gestalt language processor, you may notice that they're using a lot of these utterances and they sound exactly the same way each time. That might kind of clue you in to think, huh, I wonder if that's a gestalt for them. But at the end of the day, I think that gestalt language development is much more complicated and complex than what I've just described. But the basic kind of premise is that it's another natural developmental way of acquiring language and it's meaningful and, you know, it's based on that delayed echolalia.
- [17:19]
A
Yeah. That it's a complicated subject. But also when you give some of those examples, I think that's when people are like, oh, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You know, I've had students before where they maybe are going, going up to someone saying, are you okay? Are you okay? And you know, if someone doesn't know, they're like, yeah, I'm fine. But if you know that child, you know that that's them saying that they maybe need comfort, something's not okay with them. And they're repeating back what they've heard maybe their parents say in times of distress. And, you know, so that that little phrase, ergostalt, it comes all together and just kind of like you're describing. I also had a student a couple years ago, and she was over by me at this little table and she stood up and she went to sit down and she fell and she said, we all fall down. And you know, it's from this, the song, the nursery rhyme. And she didn't, you know, she wasn't sitting there trying to sing the song, she was trying to telling me, tell me like, hey, I just fell. I can't believe that happened. You know, so those kind of examples are so helpful because I think everyone then could start to do that detective work and start thinking like, okay, we do hear this one over and over again. And I always tell people, like, if you're not sure what it means, ask the parent. Because a lot of times they know exactly. You know, sometimes there's going to be things that aren't determined, But a lot of times the parents know.
- [19:04]
B
Yes, absolutely. That's a huge piece to it for sure.
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A
Yeah. So what would you say are some key indicators that a child might be a gestalt language processor? And how can parents and educators kind of start to identify this in preschool age kids?
- [19:22]
B
So a gestalt language processor, it can be. Can look very differently depending on where they are in the stages of development. So what I think of when I think of identifying a child as a GLP is a child who is using echolalia. So they may be using immediate echolalia, where when I say something to the child, they repeat it back. Exactly. If I ask them a question, if I say, what do you want to eat? They might say, what do you want to eat? Or if I offer them two choices, they might repeat the second choice or the whole choice. So if I say do you want to go outside? Yes or no? They might say yes or no because they are using that immediate echolalia or they may be using delayed echolalia, which is what we are thinking of when we talk about gestalt, where they are using somebody else's words, whether it came from media or conversations they've had or heard. And they are repeating it at a later time with that kind of time delay. And so you might hear a child saying lines from their favorite show or singing a favorite nursery rhyme often. And it could sound like clear words or it could sound a lot like humming or maybe you can make out the rhythm, but you can't quite understand the language in the gestalt. And so sometimes we think that they're just maybe babbling or they're using jargon, but what they're actually doing a lot of times is trying to approximate those gestalts. And so it may sound a lot of times like yes, you know, and, and I, I recently posted about that sound. So many of my GLPs have done that or do that when they are almost fast forwarding through a gestalt or language they're repeating when they don't quite have it down yet, but they're trying to use a longer utterance so you'll hear Charmin Ultrasoft, you know, and they're trying to say the whole commercial but they motorically can't yet. They also a lot of the times will be really interested in music, very musically inclined to, may benefit from using music to support their learning. They might repeat things exactly as they hear them so down to the inflection of the original speaker. So you know, they might say let's
- [22:03]
A
get out of here.
- [22:04]
B
And they will always say it like that. They'll not just say it in a different way. And they also can be non speaking or minimally speaking. So I think that's another place where people get stuck of determining whether a child is a GLP or not if they're non speaking. In my non speaking GLPs, what I'll often see is a lot of preference for routine and keeping things the same. Gestalt language processors are often gestalt cognitive processors as well, where they kind of think in this episodic kind of memory. And so these are kids who may struggle with change, they may struggle with things that are outside of their routine. The example that I often give for, for my GLPs who are non speaking is maybe they have a set of Mickey Mouse toys and they have the whole crew, and if one goes missing, the whole set is now ruined for them. And so they view that as a whole. And so any disruption to that whole throws off their whole understanding or connection with the item. And so these might be kids who insist on getting a new set if Goofy is missing. And so that's one way we might notice it. They also, if they are kids who have access to media like TV or YouTube or an iPad or something, they may be rewinding a, a clip from a show or a commercial or a song over and over again, almost as if they're studying it. And that can give us information about the way that they're processing language. And it's so fascinating to me to think back to early in my career when I saw kids doing this and I just thought, well, I guess they just like that part. I don't know. I mean, but this is nothing new. We've been seeing this in the field for so long and now that we have, I think this way of understanding it, it's like, yeah, we can build on that. So if you're noticing any of these signs, that kind of rich intonation when they do speak or when they do mimic something, it's very, lots of ups and downs with their inflection. A lot of that can be a sign that they may be learning to communicate in this way. And also, I think it's really great that you said, how can we identify it? Because a lot of people will reach out to me and say, I don't know if I should have my child or student diagnosed as a glp. And I want to remind everybody, it's not a diagnosis, it's just a way of acquiring language. And so they don't also have to have every single one of these characteristics to be a glp. Right? They may demonstrate some of these and not others. And regardless, the things that we do to support them will be beneficial if we're noticing some of these qualities and characteristics.
- [25:13]
A
Yeah, those are such good examples because sometimes you don't think about like, how could we identify kids that are maybe GLPs when they're non speaking? You know, you, you just think, well, what. But those examples you gave are, man, I thought of so many kids, boom, boom, boom, boom. And knowing, you know, looking back, it's like they were for sure, sure, GLPs, but the rewinding, the. I think sometimes even kids that once they're in elementary school have a Little more difficulty with phonics but are really great at sight words, you know, learning that the whole word, you know, I think that to me seems like it would be an indicator for some kids too.
- [26:01]
B
And there's, there's another kind of aspect to this where a child might do something called echopraxia where they actually are using their body to act out or kind of demonstrate their gestalt. And so I noticed this with some of my non speaking GLPs who will have certain body motions that came from a show. They're doing the exact movements that maybe Mickey did in the episode and that's their way of kind of using that gestalt. So they might see, you know, let's say they see a. Something that reminds them of the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and that kind of causes them to want to use their gestalt from Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. So they start to act out what Mickey did in that scene. And to an untrained communication partner who doesn't understand that, it just looks like they're just being silly earlier they're playing and it could be much deeper than that and it could be their way of playing too. So it's.
- [27:12]
A
Yeah.
- [27:13]
B
Only thing is that we need to be just tuned in so that we can see it when it's happening. Because if it's play or it's communicative or it's stimulation or regulation, like there are so many different reasons that a child might do this, but it takes a really tuned in partner to be able to uncover those reasons.
- [27:31]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I noticed that you, I actually downloaded it. You have a free resource that can actually be used to track gestalt for individual kids. So tell us more about that and I'll be sure to link it in the show notes so everyone can get their hands on that from you. But it actually is really, really great, great resource.
- [27:55]
B
So I created the Gestalt tracker because I'm often as a private practice speech therapist. I'm often on a team of clinicians and professionals and you know, there it can be challenging to find the time to really talk with one another on a regular basis about what we're hearing from a student. And so I thought it would be really helpful to have one place where we all can kind of keep track of what we're hearing and we can help each other fill in the, fill in the blanks. So the gestalt tracker is a Google Sheets page and it has several different columns with kind of prompts for the team to answer to. Talk a little bit about what the language is that they're hearing from the child and their thoughts and ideas on what it might mean. And so there's steps that you can follow to get closer to the meaning that the child might be trying to convey. You know, because we know gestalts are not literal, we can't take them at their surface face value. So the tracker has different questions, like, when did you hear them say that? What were they doing? What did the intonation sound like? Did it sound high pitched? Did it sound like an angry gestalt? Did it, did the child use an action or a gesture when they use the gestalt? Have they repeated it since? Is it something we're hearing often? When are we hearing it? And then columns four. What do we think it could mean? And what steps will we take to be sure? So there are things that we can do when we hear language to acknowledge and honor it. And then there's this kind of behind the scenes work that communication partners can do on their own and ideally together to get closer to the true meaning of what a child's trying to communicate. Because the closer we get, the more the child will feel understood and the more they'll want to communicate. It's a whole cycle. So we respond intuitively. They want to talk with us more or communicate with us more, whatever that looks like for them. And that's where progress happens. So I made this tracker to be simple and easy to follow, where everybody could put their stuff in one place. Because there will be times where I'll see a child and I will hear them say something and I'll say to their parent, oh, I heard such so and so saying this. And she'll say, oh, yeah, that's from, you know, Nightmare before Christmas. And then I think to myself, wow, it'd be awesome if everybody who works with this child knows exactly where this came from and what we think it means and how we're going to respond to it so that they can do the same. And so that was kind of my driving force behind the tracker. And I wanted to solve a problem that I think a lot of us have. We none of us have time to create our own, you know, our own things. And so I figured, why not offer this? And there's different tabs for team notes and language samples and just one place to keep track of everything. Because I think ideally, the more we collaborate, the better off the child will be.
- [31:13]
A
Yeah, that's amazing. And the exact way you described it with your team or your fellow, your colleagues could be looked at the same with paraprofessionals in the classroom. So a lot of times over the years when I was in the classroom, a paraprofessional would come to me and be like, oh, my gosh, so and so keeps saying, you know, this phrase, I think it means, you know, so I have. I had one student that would say out of the blue, he'd be like, goodbye, see you later. And I was like, I don't even know what it was from or if it was just something he had heard, but it meant it. Clearly, after being a Scooby Doo detective and kind of looking at things more closely, it meant, I want to be done with this. I didn't mean like, I'm leaving or he's leaving or any. You know, it's not literal. But he meant, like, that was his way to say, like, done with this, don't wanna, not interested or, you know. And so when you're saying finding the meaning is important, it is because this is a child also that could have really, really dysregulated tantrums and meltdowns. And we don't want that, you know, and so if we know that if he's saying goodbye, see you later, over and over, we need to maybe adjust what we're doing to take some of that pressure off of him, to just even acknowledge what he means, like, oh, goodbye, see you later, we can be all done with this, you know, give a break or move on to something different that he likes. Just my thoughts, based on everything you
- [32:56]
B
just described, I 100% agree. Because I think when a child feels that their team is trying to understand what it is that they're saying, they feel empowered to continue to communicate. And so if somebody was responding to that child and saying, no, you're not leaving. We don't leave school until 3 o'. Clock, I mean, how frustrating would that be? And imagining that this child already is dealing with some sensory overload and dysregulation and, you know, sometimes that can be all it takes to tip us over, you know, into being disregarded. And so having that knowledge shared amongst a team can really prevent a lot of miscommunications and allow us to all be on the same page. And I think that sometimes when people don't know about gestalt language development and they've not maybe had a chance to. To learn or to read about it, and they hear these things, and I find this a lot with the parents that I coach, that when they finally have this information, it's like a whole weight has been lifted. Off their shoulders because they're. For a while, they may feel like, am I crazy for thinking that maybe he means something more than just repeating the paw patrol line? Like, am I, am I delusional for thinking this? And once we come in and say, no, you're not delusional. And actually that's exactly what's happening here. People can then be so much more involved in trying to communicate with the child. And I saw that so often with the paraprofessionals that I worked with in the school when I would say, you know, this child is probably going to say this and this is what it means, and here's how I would respond, or here's what we can do if that happens. I would. They would see me in the hallway sometimes and be like, Ms. Nicole, I got to tell you something, I did what you said to do. And he looked at me like with amazement. And we had this moment. And. And then he transitioned away from the playground when it was time for lunch because I think he felt like I understood. And now we're like best friends. And it would just creates so much buzz and so much joy. And kids feel that they want to feel understood. So nobody wants to be chronically misunderstood. And so I think that when we all communicate with each other, it can open doors that we never even knew existed.
- [35:31]
A
Yeah. That is so powerful. Yeah. Everything you just said with, you know, the paras getting excited and the child feeling understood. And I don't know if you ever see this. I guess I, I haven't heard anyone really talk about it. But now as you're speaking about this, I think this has got to be related to being a gestalt language processor. So I have, you know, those students where they want you to fill in the other part of whatever the script is. Right. And I feel like that is a piece of the being a glp, having some of those things where that's a fun way for them to interact, a predictable way to interact. And fast forward this to like Willie, my 30 year old now student, looking back, he was definitely, definitely a GLP and still is. And he would have these certain phrases over the years that I would learn and I just knew the answer to. And like, I would teach other people the answer to it because his anxiety would go down if people answered it correctly. So if someone, if he says to you, Nicole, what will happen if I cut Peter's hair? The answer is it won't grow back because Peter's a dollar. So there I. I really think there must have been some big Thing because I've met the doll Peter, and he was. Peter was his grandmother's doll. So from a long time ago, it's probably at least waist high on me. One that you think is going to come and, like, show up at your door in the middle of the night. And so Peter's a little frightening, but there must have been something where Willie at one point had a scissors and, like, was gonna cut Peter's hair. There was a big reaction. And he remembers that. What will happen if you cut Peter's hair? He's a doll. It won't grow back. And then we literally recently, within the last month, had a text exchange. Because once in a while he'll just text me out of the blue. And I said to him, because sometimes I like to bring it up then. So I said, what will happen if I cut Peter's hair? And he wrote back, it won't grow back. And I said, well, what. What will happen if I cut your hair? It will grow back. What if I cut your mom's hair? It will grow back. So it's like this fun social exchange that we have too.
- [38:09]
B
You are describing something that I see so often, and I. I feel like I know Willie stories because there are so many kids like that who. That's exactly what they're doing. It's their way of connecting. And there are kids who I've seen who do things like that, because like you said, it's a predictable way of interacting, but it's also a way that they have some autonomy in the conversation. Like, this is something I know how to ask, and I know what the answer will be. And there's this back and forth exchange, and it makes me feel closer to the person who responds when you get it right. And I'll have kids who will say to me, I have a client who will say, well, what kind of truck does your father drive? And I'll say. And I'll say, chevy. And he'll say, no, a Toyota Tacoma. Because he knows. Because we've already had this conversation. And a lot of times autistic kids will ask you questions they know the answer to, and it's definitely related. And it's. It's. To me, something that never sat right with me was this idea that there are questions that are on topic or, okay, questions that are off topic. So we don't respond to those. And I was always the professional who was probably thinking back to it now, probably getting the kids in trouble, because I would be like, what kind of card is your father? And then I would hear other people saying, we're not talking about trucks right now. And it's like. But if you would just talk about trucks for a minute, then you would show this child that you're with them and that you care, and they would want to communicate with you there. It's not a coincidence that kids want to be around us. It's because we show them that. I don't mind if we talk about Toyota Tacomas today again, for the millionth time, because I know this brings you joy, and I know that as a skilled clinician, I can embed whatever targets we're working on into the same conversation we have every single time. Because guess what? When you're doing that, you're initiating, you're waiting for me to respond. You are connecting with me. We're developing so much. And even for that, that child who does ask me about my father's car, or he'll say, are you wearing short sleeves today? And I'll say, I am. And he'll say, why would you wear short sleeves today? And I'll say, do you think it's because it's hot out? And he'll go, yes. And so it just brings him so much joy. But imagine asking other people that, and they don't respond, or they give you kind of like a half answer. And it's like, there's no surprise that kids want to talk to people who respond to them with warmth.
- [41:14]
A
And.
- [41:15]
B
Yeah, even if you don't understand why they're asking that question, it's like, just answer the question.
- [41:21]
A
Right, right. And acknowledge it, too. Everything you're describing right now, like, I don't know, we're kindred spirits or something, because I just feel like I was that same person even as a beginning slp, like, relationship over everything relationship first. And part of doing what you're describing, like, acknowledging those questions and playing the little back and forth that we know the answer and they know the answer, but that's a piece of relationship that is really important because once you have a good relationship and a trusting relationship, there's so much more you can address and, like, work on after that.
- [42:07]
B
And. And it's something that honestly, you know, makes me want to cry. Thinking back to, you know, younger me as a speech therapist who was focusing and putting all of my attention into creating these relationships with not only my students, but their families and going out of my way to make sure their families knew how special I thought their child was at all times. And I think that when you have a professional in your corner who comes into the IEP and tells you all the great things your child's doing. And, you know, yes, maybe there are some challenges along the way, but here's what we're going to try, and here's why I think it will benefit your child. And it's not this, you know, everybody against a parent kind of table at the meeting. You know, that makes me really emotional for my old self because I was often met with, you know, eyes rolling or. I don't think he really means that. I think you're, you know, thinking too deeply into this. And I'm like, I would rather err on the side of believing something this child's saying is meaningful than. Than the opp. The of the, you know, the other choice there. And so thinking back to that, you know, I was the one who, you know, somebody might say, oh, you know, we're ignoring Johnny because he keeps asking about Toyota Tacomas. And I would be like, who's we? Because I'm not ignoring him, you know, like, yeah. And I think I still remember now that I have the terminology for gestalt. I still remember the gestalt of kids I haven't seen in a decade. And I could. I could use them. I could say them right now just the same way you're describing with Willie, like, even down to sounds that kids would make. Like, I can remember child's sound. Because when you are genuinely tuned in and trying to connect, like, these things aren't just little, like, quirks of a kid. It's like, that's their best way of communicating right now. So you might as well try to understand it, because that's where we are right now. And I think that gives so much hope to parents who, you know, have maybe not been told all these positive things. And when you tell them, like, your son or your daughter is amazing, and here's why. And it's like. And you're not just saying that on, you know, an inauthentic level, but you really mean it. And you're like, you know how cool it is that he was able to do this today. And this is where, like, just as a parent now, you know, I think that's. That's where I'll get emotional because it's like, you know, I'm gonna treat everybody's kid the way I would want my child to be treated. And I think that's the bottom line for me.
- [45:09]
A
Yeah. Yeah. We talked about our kids before we went on air here. And mine are older, but I remember the exact teachers that I knew were like, Were into my kid. They really liked him, and he made it hard sometimes. You know, my daughter did great in school. My son had some challenges. And I remember as the mom who. Who was great to him and developed a relationship and cared about him. So it does matter, you know, no matter who the child is. Like, we all have to have people in our corner and the more the better. And I think, you know, when you were talking too, it reminded me of. We can model and create that with typical peers too. Neurotypical kids with our students with things that they can do together. I. I'm just remembering back to. Gosh, it probably was like within my first five years in the classroom, and I had a student who was absolutely a glp. He had. He was mainly. Mostly non speaking functionally, but he. If he got stressed, then some words would come out, but they were like, he'd get stressed and he'd be like, hamburger, tater tot hot dish. I'm like, gosh, tell us your Midwestern without telling us you're Midwestern. Pure words that come out.
- [46:47]
B
What's a tater tot hot dish? I never heard such a thing, but it sounds great.
- [46:53]
A
For real, you haven't?
- [46:54]
B
No.
- [46:55]
A
Okay. Yeah. So this, this little guy, like, he's from the Midwest, so that was one of his words that would pop out. Okay, It. It has like, I haven't made it in so long, but like cream of chicken soup, like a frozen mixed vegetables and then tater tots neatly lined up over the top. I'm gonna send you a picture later. It makes like a winter. Winter comfort food. Especially when you have kids.
- [47:28]
B
We're gonna have that.
- [47:29]
A
I'm missing something in it. Oh, maybe like ground beef. Gosh, I haven't made it since my kids were little. So anyway, so, you know, these words would pop out. But he Also, he loved SpongeBob SquarePants. And this is. He was probably fourth grade at the time. And I was doing something called integrated playgroups. Pamela Wolfberg was way ahead of her time with this concept of these playgroups because when you think of the. The double empathy problem where, I don't know, people need to look that up to have it explained. But in this case, it wasn't just like in this integrated playgroup, me teaching my student how to do what his friends wanted to do. It was a collaborative group where we all, they, like, grouped together and played and decided on things that the collective liked. So they knew that this little. This Greg liked SpongeBob SquarePants. And so we ended up making this like video. We made it like a talk show that kind of looked at a SpongeBob SquarePants episode. And this was like, back where it was not easy to video and stuff, but we did it. I probably still have like a VHS with it on it or something. But they really together worked out, like the script and the parts to have everybody's strengths highlighted. So some. Someone was the reporter, whatever. And then they kind of asked Greg, like, you know, what could we have you do in it? What would you like to do? And he could sing the spongebob. Spongebob squarepants song. And he could also do the part where they're like, two hours later. So, like, that was his part in the show. And, and you should have seen all their faces when it was done. And they went in and had this special, like, showing in their viewing in their fourth grade classroom. And everyone had popcorn and every child was kind of like, did a part in this was an actor and doing what they did best. And so it was really cool. And I say that because, you know, it's, it's. We can use everybody's strength to, to facilitate those friendships with peers too. And really not just looking at, okay, let's make this child look more typical, more neurotypical, but let's let them be who they are.
- [50:23]
B
And what you're describing, I can't tell if you, like, could see me tearing up a little now. You have to give me some grace. I do have a baby, so I'm a little bit, you know, my emotions are still working themselves out. But what you're describing is something that I. It's. It's this intangible, like, quality of a professional who just gets it and who models this authentic connection for the other kids. And it is so important because I, you know, in my private practice, I often see kids in my clinic, but I do also go into schools, and if there's a classroom where the teacher treats the autistic child like an outsider, all of the kids do too. And if the teacher treats the autistic child like a problem, like the. Their behaviors are a problem, or like they don't understand what everybody else understands. And I've seen this, unfortunately, often where the teacher doesn't know how to interact with the child. So they don't. And the other. The kids in the class are following that teacher's lead, they stay away from the child, and the child gets no interaction. And, and when the child does try to initiate, it's seen as like, you know, incorrect or, you know, maybe they're Maybe they have a different style of connecting. Like, you brought up the double empathy and, and neurotypical people struggle to socialize and interact with neurodivergent people and vice versa. It's not a one sided issue. And, but there's this trickle down effect of the leader of a classroom or of a facility. And if you are not, you know, as Brene Brown will say, like, if you're not a sturdy leader, everybody falls apart and it's, there's no authentic connection for that child. And then I go into other schools where the teacher is on the floor talking face to face with the autistic child in the classroom and, and every kid in the classroom knows his, that he likes Cheez Its. And they're bringing in Cheez Its. They're talking about them at home, they're saying, oh my gosh, you know, Kaden loves macaroni and cheese and look, Kayden, I brought you in an empty Kraft Mac and cheese box. Like, and they don't even see that as anything other than what you do for a friend. That's also an example of that trickle down that happens. And that's what, that's. My ultimate goal is that that's the experience of our autistic students and we have a long way to go, but there are many of us who are trying and I think that it's, it's possible to get closer to that mission. But gosh, when it's, when it's the opposite way and you go into a classroom and you can just see it on the face of that child. When I go into a school that doesn't get this child and they see me and they run to me like, you know, like their whole face lights up and, and then the teacher will say, well, they don't do that for me. And I think like, yeah, because you don't try to communicate with child and it doesn't take much. Like, I'm not doing anything that you can't do. And you know, so I think that there's this powerful reason to be doing the things that you and I are doing even when we don't understand what the child's trying to communicate. There are many times when I don't understand what a child's trying to tell me or they're having a hard time, like God often. But the way that we respond shows kids how to respond and that makes a huge difference. And then guess what? Those kids in that preschool classroom who had an autistic student in their class and their teacher treated that student the Same way they treated everybody else and, you know, offered support when needed and modeled empathy and connection. Like, they go on to be us. Like, you know, they go on to be those people that are leading the force and. And the. It's a shame that there are kids who don't get that experience because there really is so much you can do for so little, such little amount of effort and energy and for free. Like, you could connect with a child for free. And. And still some people choose not to.
- [55:02]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's really tragic, actually, that there are still places, lots, where that's happening, because it is so easy to say we're going to put connection first, you know, and learning how. And, you know, I'm far enough into my career where exactly what you're saying, those students who have followed your lead and made, you know, true friends, they do choose. I saw someone just a couple months ago, and I was at an event, like a bowling fundraising event for an organization here, and this girl came up and she was attending it, and she said, tara. And of course, they all knew my first name because I wasn't going to make my. My students say, Mrs. Tuchel at the time is Tukal. That's hard. So they all knew me as Tara. It's fine. And so these kids are grown up now. They're in their late 20s, early 30s. And she said, I went into special education because of what we learned in. At Willow river elementary, you know, because kids were included and we got to know them as a person, you know, and several of these kids that were in my playgroups in particular were still. We're friends now on Facebook as adults, because they remember. They remember the friend and they remember me. And, you know, even if they're not still in contact with their autistic friend, they. They remember that experience.
- [56:39]
B
And, you know, it reminds me of one other story. I could say, tell you so many, but this one just. And I. I have to share it because it's like it embodies this whole. This whole discussion is. I have a client who, if anybody is listening, who follows my Instagram, has probably seen many videos of him, and he has really strong special interests with Down Unstoppables. The people hear that and they think it's like a new superhero. No, it's literally the laundry detergent. I'm talking about the little, like, you know, scented pods.
- [57:16]
A
I have some. I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [57:19]
B
Yes, those. The Charman ultrasoft bears he likes and some other commercials and characters and things like that. So when we work together, a lot of times what we do is we go on Google and we look for images and we print them, and we. You know, sometimes we'll make them into a book, and he'll find the specific, you know, iteration of the commercial that he wants, and I will find it on Google Images, and we'll print it. We'll make a book out of it. And then when his mom comes back to get him at the end of the session, he can't. Like, he's overjoyed to show her. They flip through it. And then a lot of times when he gets home in the evening, she'll send me a video of him, like, reading it with his family before bed. And it's like. Because that's what he loves. So that's what they've all leaned into, and it's beautiful. So she sent me a video one day, and she said, I'm crying in the middle of Target. And I'm like, well, we already know I'm gonna cry. I don't even have to see the video. I'm already just thinking of you crying in Target is making me cry. I don't even know what we're talking about yet. So she sends me this video where he took his book to school. And it was literally, like, no words, except for each page said down unstoppables or something. Like, it was just me labeling the pictures for him. We had cut them out and glued them in one on each page of the different parts of the commercial. And he took it to school. He ran into school, she said, he ran into school with it in his hand, and he's like, look, it's down in Snappables. And his teachers, because they already have connected with him and built that relationship, they already. They would expect nothing else from his book to any other topic. So they were excited to see his book. And they flipped through together. And then the teacher took a video of him. He's seated in the middle of all these other preschoolers, and he's. They're fighting each other to get closer to him, to see the pictures of the laundry detergent. Like, Carter, great job. Like, oh, we love this book. We love Downing Unstoppables. And they're all just, like, trying to see. They're all. He's just unstoppables. And then mommy. And he's. He reads the whole thing, and he goes, the end. And they cheer for him and clap. And I'm like, why did you send that to me? Like, I have to have to take the rest of the day off. Because I'm. I feel.
- [59:55]
A
Yeah.
- [59:56]
B
Like, that video just did something for me to, like, make me never want to stop doing what we're doing, even when it's hard, because that group of kids, like, will go on to lead this field and lead, you know, special education and hopefully make the changes that we're trying to lay out now.
- [60:17]
A
Yeah.
- [60:17]
B
And I, like, it gives me chills, thinking and the way that he felt so accepted and. And it wasn't for show. It wasn't for, you know, Autism awareness month. We're gonna. We're gonna wear this shirt for him. It was, like, genuine, like, human interaction at its, like, most authentic level. And it will just, like, that video will always stick with me. I'll never forget that, ever.
- [60:42]
A
No. That is so beautiful. And, like, you and I are storytellers. I'm figuring that out. Like, we should collaborate on, like, a couple reels where we're just telling stories, because I think it helps give ideas of, like, simple ways to connect and make someone's day and, you know, teach other kids. Yes. Yeah.
- [61:08]
B
It's not always about the technical data collection. It's like, you need. It's the human first. And I think.
- [61:17]
A
And that's what life is lived on, is the human factor, for sure. I had this unique experience. Okay, I'm gonna tell one more story, and then I'll ask about strategies.
- [61:28]
B
I know.
- [61:29]
A
Stop. I love it.
- [61:30]
B
I could talk about it all night.
- [61:32]
A
Like, just talking to you is bringing all this stuff up. That's so, like, just these great therapy.
- [61:36]
B
Yeah.
- [61:37]
A
So like, eight years ago, I, like, had lost weight. I became this is pre, like, autism little learners. I got my certification for becoming a cycling instructor, like, spin class. So I was teaching spin class, but something in me was like, I want to do, like, a special needs type spin class where, like, teenagers or adults could come and get some exercise, but have fun. And so I put it together, and wouldn't you know, like, the class was almost all former students that were now in their teens and twenties. So I got to, like, hang out with them on a weekly basis. And so the biggest. The coolest thing was I at one point was like, okay, for the kids that were able to let me know, I'm like, what songs do you love? Like, what should the playlist be next week? And for kids that weren't able to let me know that, I asked their parents, like, what does he love? One is like, oh, yeah, Disney. Tarzan. Okay, we're gonna put Tarzan on the playlist. Well, this one guy. Guy because he wasn't a kid anymore. He said, I love the Delta theme song. And I'm like, like, Delta Airlines? Yeah. I'm like, okay, so I, I found it. There is a Delta Airlines theme song. And we spun to it.
- [63:03]
B
You're like, didn't know they had a theme song, but it's on the playlist. Yeah.
- [63:07]
A
Never knew it was very interesting, but that was so fun seeing everybody. Like, it's the human factor, like, the joy that me and everyone else got in there seeing each. I say kid because they were my students, but each kid light up when their song came on. And. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna go into the next question because otherwise this is going to be a two hour podcast, which I know.
- [63:34]
B
It's me, it's me. I'm telling you, before we went on, it's me too.
- [63:39]
A
Okay, so can you describe some effective strategies or techniques to support gestalt language processors?
- [63:47]
B
Absolutely. So there are several strategies that I use on a daily basis, and I think the first one is to truly commit yourself to fundamentally believing that echolalia is meaningful. And I think for a lot of people, that's a shift that takes time. But if you can commit yourself to letting yourself go there and believe that, like, hey, when this child repeats me, it could mean something. Or when this child says this, it could mean something. Opening up your mind to that, I think, then allows you to feel that excitement when you've uncovered meaning, and then that naturally builds in more communication. So it's like the more you do something, the better you get. So if you just start there and just be open, even if you're on the fence and you're thinking, like, I don't know, this might not be, you know, 100% factually proven, you know, whatever your, whatever hesitation is, if you can just try to open yourself up to it and, and recognize that it's very much a real thing and, and start to honor it and see where that gets you, your results will speak for themselves and you'll look back and think, I can't believe I never, you know, I can't believe I ever doubted that this could be, you know, purposeful. Yeah, that's kind of like the overarching strategy that I try to instill in everybody that works with me. But then in terms of, like, specifically supporting a GLP's language, it's to the point now where I feel like I constantly do this, even though I don't need to do this because my family is not made up of GLPs. But I you know, present language from the child's perspective. So I will not say to a glp, do you want to play a game? I'll say, let's play a game. Because I know that they are skilled at repeating me. So what I say to them, I think to myself, well, would that make sense coming from them? And so I use things like lack, like, you know, let's go play, or, you know, I. So instead of saying, are you okay? Like in that example that we talked about earlier, instead of saying, if I see one of my GLPs fall or trip or get scared, I won't say, are you okay? I'll say, that was scary. Because I want them to have the language to specifically describe what they're experiences so that they don't have to say to me, are you okay? And then I have to figure out that that actually means that they're not okay. So pretending language from the child's perspective, it feels like you're having a conversation with yourself. But we know that gestalt language processors in those early stages, like when they are at that preschool age, they're taking in all language and stimuli around them as possible gestalts. Like, we can't guarantee something will become a gestalt for a child, but we can make the environment so rich with language models that if they did relate and connect with something, we've said that when they retain it and reuse it, it sounds like them like it. We don't. Otherwise they're going to be using language that is not easier to understand for their partners. So presenting it with from the child's perspective. So using I instead of you can be really beneficial. And I have two others that I think are really important. So, like, we talked about at length communicating as often as possible with parents and caregivers because they ultimately are the expert on their child and they're the ones that know their favorite shows and what characters they are mimicking, and they know all of the details from, you know, the little gesture they're using. Oh, yeah, that came from spongebob. Like, whereas we are looking at it and thinking, I wonder if that could be something the parents typically will know. And so when you say to the parents, hey, what are the shows that your child likes? What songs do they like? Because if a parent says to me, oh, you know, my child really likes Humpty Dumpty, well, then I'm gonna build that into our play. Like, I'm gonna stack something up and go Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall and then knock everything Down. So when you know what they love and then you can use it in your lessons, that's gonna tune them in and create those magic moments, which is something that I teach in all of my courses and webinars is like, look for those magic moments of connection and where you. They give you some indication that you're on the right track. And then, of course, writing down language that you hear so that you can keep track of their development, because it's also recording as often as possible with permission. Because I can't tell you how many times I go back, because I record almost every session with my clients. Then I go back and I think, like, I thought I was so in tune, and here I missed, you know, three or four things that they said to me that I was, you know, setting something up over here, or I had my back turned, and I watch it back, and I think, wait a minute. Did they just say, I need help or something? And so having those recordings is huge. And I think that will be a new way of collecting data and. And tracking progress will be, you know.
- [69:20]
A
Yeah, I love what you said about the look for those magic moments because you can feel them, you know, when they're happening. So I love that. And, you know, just the idea that echolalia is meaningful a lot of the time, but again, we have to just do our detective work and figure it out. And I think those strategies you just gave are, like, so doable. You're not asking, like, people to do backflips and really difficult things. I think that list you gave is just such a really great. And eventually will become intuitive for them way to start.
- [70:03]
B
Yeah, that's my goal. That's what I hope.
- [70:06]
A
Yeah. And, you know, my other. One of my questions for you is, can you share some success stories? But, like, I think we've covered that. Maybe.
- [70:13]
B
I think we have.
- [70:15]
A
Yeah. And then maybe any common challenges you might see working with Gestalt language processors.
- [70:23]
B
Yeah, I think. I think there's common challenges that seem to be universal. And I think it's frustration for the kids. Like, I think that when they don't have access to communication partners who understand them, we see a lot of frustration. And sometimes we see kids not wanting to communicate or shutting down. And, you know, of course that's a challenge. And I think we also see things. When it comes to goals and it comes to IEPs and things like that, a lot of times I will read goals and IEPs and think, you know, that's not probably what the child would be best suited to work on right now. And I think that the more people learn about this style of acquiring language, the better that will get. And I know that, you know, a lot of times a goal will say, you know, the child will answer WH questions. And yeah, that's a great skill that we certainly want kids to be able to do. But Gestalt language processors are not ready for WH questions until they're in at least stage three or four of the, you know, natural language acquisition framework by Marge Blanc, as she's defined it. And you know, when we are presenting them with questions like that, it can be really difficult for them to show what they actually understand and know. And so it sets us up for communication breakdowns because the child probably knows much more than they're able to communicate. And I think we always need to err on the side of presuming that potential and that confidence. And there's one other challenge that I think is a big one. And, you know, we can't solve it right now, but hopefully there are smart people out there working on it. Is that AAC for non speaking autistic kids and speaking, you know, people who are not able to always rely on their natural speech. Anybody who, you know, isn't able to do that should have access to robust aac. I think there's a lot of challenges there. But AAC systems as they are currently were not created for GLPs. And so we have to do some, some make some changes to the devices that are currently available and be more open to the clever ways that kids will communicate. Like I had a kid last week communicate with me through a game, like an app on his iPad of like giving the character a drink a hundred times before. I finally was like, are you thirsty?
- [73:02]
A
Oh yeah.
- [73:03]
B
He's like, thirsty. And he goes and gets a drink. So sometimes it's, it's more than, you know, even just detective work. It's like sometimes kids who are non speaking or minimally speaking are, are desperately trying to tell us something. And it takes us attributing meaning to those actions to even show them that we are trying to understand them.
- [73:26]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point because a lot of times they really are trying so hard. And back to. I do have one more story.
- [73:38]
B
You can tell me as many stories.
- [73:40]
A
Okay, so it's related to the WH question thing. So one of my students, the one that said we all fall down, she and I were working and I had like little animals. Now if with her, I just, after getting to know her, working with her long enough. I knew that if I just. If I held it up and said, what is it? She either wouldn't say anything or she would say, like, what is it? And she loved, loved, loved the song. Mommy finger, Mommy finger, where are you? Like, nursery rhymes are making a huge comeback. Yeah, I don't know if it's YouTube or what, but anyway, she loved that. And I would hear her. So this is where you're saying, like, start noticing tracking. I would hear her saying that, and sometimes it was a hum, sometimes it was the words, and then sometimes she'd fill in other words for it. And so I came up. These were like animals you could put on your fingers. And I was like, cow finger, cow
- [74:46]
B
finger, where are you?
- [74:48]
A
Here I am. And she's just, like, looked at me like, huh? Like, couldn't even believe it. Like, she immediately was into it. So then she. I would just. She would start doing it. So I just give her a new animal. And each time she labeled the animal 100%. There is no question, you know, if we're thinking, okay, I need to ask her, what is it? What is it? What is it? To know if she knows the animal names. If that's, like, not the way she's able to express herself or she's not there yet, try doing it through, like, the songs and kind of just some novel ideas like that that's going to tap into their strengths. And, I mean, she immediately was able to name all of those, but it just was in the song. It made sense to her.
- [75:39]
B
And when you focus on the goal and how you. You know, how you're tracking it, otherwise she would have gotten probably 0% accuracy. So that's my biggest frustration with the way that our systems are, which, you know, we're not going to solve in one episode, but we probably could solve it because we're doers.
- [75:59]
A
We could. We could.
- [76:01]
B
Is that the way that we're tracking progress is not always a fair or accurate representation of real progress. And that's another thing that I like to remind not only just professionals, but parents, too. It's like, look for other, other signs of progress that are not, you know, the measurable smart goal, you know, but they're still big factors in overall progress. And also, just as a side note, every GLP that I know loves that song.
- [76:32]
A
And Hickory Dickory Doc Hickory. Just a huge comeback.
- [76:37]
B
I mean, and Humpty Dumpty for. For a lot of my kids, too. Not everyone, but a lot. But the. I mean, I. I sing that Daddy Finger song thousand times a Day I sang it today. I said, so and so, so and so, where are you? And then I go. When they look over at me, I go, here I am.
- [76:59]
A
Yes.
- [77:00]
B
And actually he said hi to me after I sang that for the first time ever. And I. I was so glad I got. I had it recorded, because sometimes those moments happen so quick. You're like, you know, you get that really happen.
- [77:14]
A
Yeah.
- [77:14]
B
You think, like, did I just imagine that? And it's always nice to be able to show parents, like, look, this is something that happened. And when we focus on what kids can do and not what we want them to do, I think that's when we see real progress. Then we start thinking outside of the box.
- [77:30]
A
Yes. Yeah. Thinking outside of the box is a number one requirement I think should be for working with young autistic kids. So, Nicole, I'm so excited to tell everyone about something you have coming up soon, soon. And that is your course on Gestalt Language Processing. What can you tell me more about it and what participants could expect to learn in there?
- [77:59]
B
Yeah. So I have spent my career trying new things and learning and unlearning and relearning. And I have always had a goal to be able to connect or I've always been really kind of driven to connect with parents, caregivers, professionals, to bring joy to this whole communication journey. And so when I started to be in touch with so many more people through the power of social media, I started to realize that there's a need for a course that's not just telling you what to do, but that's also reminding you that you have everything it takes to support your autistic child or student. It's just a little tweak here and there that would really take things to the next level. And so my course, the Great Language Partner Program, is not about the technical, you know, terminology of Gestalt language development. We highlight it, and I want you to know what it is and what you know, what to look for and how to. How to identify it and work with a child who's processing language this way. But the heart of the course is teaching people that connection is the number one thing for supporting our autistic kids. And there are ways that we can authentically connect, and that's through being what I call a great language partner. And so I, as you said, like to tell stories. And I. I spent some time trying to come up with a framework that would be really tangible for people and. And something they would remember. And so that's how my kite framework was born and there's a whole, whole backstory to it which we're not going to get into, but is a framework that helps you understand gest language development and your role in a child's communication development and how through becoming receptive, responsive and reflective, you can make huge gains with your gestalt language processors, language development and all the while be really feel connected and confident and not only feel empowered yourself, but empower the child and follow their lead. And so through engaging kind of conversations like this where I am just talking with you and videos from real sessions where I pause them and tell you here's what I probably could have done or here's why I did this or what do you think about this? You're getting this kind of bird's eye view of what it looks like to support GLPs. And I created this course because I it's what I would have liked to have had but instead I spent hundreds of hours and years learning how to do this. And so I took from a lot of different places and created something that hopefully will be transformative for anybody. Supports a glp. And yeah, so it's a, it's a series of six modules and it comes with a workbook which I love and everybody who takes the course tells me it's their favorite part. And that's kind of saying something for a workbook because I thought, and you know, I'm not offended by that because I worked hard on the workbook but I'm like so it's not me and my engaging stories but it's the. And so that's a huge part of it too because it's, it's kind of like a, an accountability guide to teaching you the strategies but then giving you handouts and visual supports for us as adults too. Here's a tracker. How many questions did you ask today? How many times did you notice this today? Did you respond this way today so that you can also notice the progress in yourself because that's important too for your kids. So it is the great language partner program. It is available July 1st in its self paced version. It's been ongoing as a live course right now, but that's coming to an end and then it will be self paced for anybody who wants to join us.
- [82:25]
A
I have to tell you I purchased the course for pre sale and I'm so excited because I don't think I told. Well, I wanted to tell you because I'm super pumped to take the course and I think just the examples that you give, I can't even imagine what is going to be in the course that can help. And I think whether people are learning about gestalt language processing, unlearning something else, relearning. Like that's why I wanted to talk to you because I think this course is going to help so many people feel comfortable with either what pieces of what they're already doing and implementing new strategies and kind of new ways of connecting. So I encourage everybody to go buy Nicole's course. We're going to have a link below and then access starts July 1st. Is that kind of how start.
- [83:25]
B
You'll, you'll get the whole course. And like you said, any, any level of knowledge is, is welcome in the course. We have people in the course right now who've, this is their first point of contact with glp. And I have some clinicians in the course who have been therapists for maybe decades. And there I've received some feedback from them saying, wow, even just hearing a different way of, of thinking has taught me something that I've, I never thought of. And I've, I felt pretty confident going into this course with my knowledge of glp. So it has something for everybody. And so yeah, I am so happy to have you in the course and I can't wait to hear what you think of it. And yeah, and if anybody wants to reach out to me as well on social media, it's connections, speech pathology. I share mostly about speech and language therapy and sometimes I come on and sing as well. Like today. I don't know if you saw my story. I just show up authentically and try to meet people where they are. And I would love to have everybody
- [84:30]
A
join in and this is this good for you don't have to be a speech therapist. It could be early childhood special education teacher, SLP parent would benefit from it.
- [84:45]
B
Teacher ot, you know, I have a grandmom who's in the course. I have, you know, probably other family members. I mean it could be anybody who wants to learn more. I think I have a. Somebody who just leads a playgroup somewhere and a principal. And so anybody who wants to learn more can benefit from the course for sure.
- [85:08]
A
Awesome. Okay, I will link all your social media and all everything in the show notes. I want everyone to go check Nicole out in all the places. And I had such a great time talking to you today. And everybody, I hope you enjoyed a very long podcast episode because we have discovered the two of us together is just like storytelling magic.
- [85:33]
B
I, I feel that way too. I, I mean this was my first podcast and I really enjoyed it. So thanks for having me. This was great.
- [85:41]
A
Yeah, thank you so much. We'll talk soon for sure.
- [85:44]
B
Thank you.
- [85:46]
A
I'm sending a big virtual hug your way because you just finished another episode of the Autism Little Learners podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. If you have had success with any of the strategies that you learned about in this podcast, I would love to hear from you. Send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook. Autismlittlelearners don't forget to grab your free visual support starter set by going to auto autismlittlelearners. Com visuals and always remember to find the good in every day.