#53 - Autism Classroom Q & A

Summary

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Autism Little Learners Podcast Episode #53: "Autism Classroom Q & A"

Host: Tara Phillips
Guest: Jason Phillips
Release Date: January 16, 2024

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Episode Overview

This special Q&A episode celebrates the one-year anniversary of The Autism Little Learners Podcast with host Tara Phillips and her husband Jason. The episode is tailored to educators, therapists, and families supporting autistic preschoolers, and it addresses pressing listener questions about balancing play-based learning with direct instruction, managing classroom routines, creating supportive environments, and practical visual supports.

Tara combines neurodiversity-affirming insights with decades of speech-language pathology experience. The conversation stays relaxed, encouraging, and highly practical, with Jason providing levity and real-world curiosity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Balancing Play-Based Learning & Direct Teaching

(Starts at 04:46)

• Play-Based Learning Within Structure:
  Tara emphasizes that ‘play’ for autistic children often requires more structure than general free play.

  • Set up defined spaces for activities to reduce anxiety and wandering.
  • Use favorite toys as bridges between connection-building and direct skill teaching.
  • Example: A child loves Cocomelon van—Tara incorporates matching activities into this play to introduce new concepts gently.

  Quote:

  “Use play-based learning within structure… That physical structure can help kids feel less anxious, avoid wandering, and creates a predictable routine.” — Tara (05:16)

2. Teaching Unstructured Play

(Starts at 08:12)

• Gentle Expansion & Visual Supports:

  • Begin with a child's preferred play and incrementally introduce extensions (e.g., putting people into the bus before pushing it).
  • Use visual supports in both structured and unstructured areas.
  • Accept and allow ‘stimming’ with toys but gently introduce new play options.

  Quote:

  “Start letting my students play the way they like... then gently expand their play... preparing visual supports to help teach the new or extended skill.” — Tara (08:24)

3. Classroom Areas & Environment Setup

(Starts at 10:24)

• Defined Learning Zones:
  Jason attempts to guess classroom areas—sensory tables, calming corners, desk areas—prompting Tara to clarify:

  • Two one-on-one work areas with special seating to save teachers’ backs.
  • Isolated small tables for focused or solo play.
  • Sensory areas (including swings), book areas, group spaces, general play zones.
  • Two independent work tables specifically trained for task routines and perseverance.

  Quote:

  “It’s really important to give a lot of thought into that physical layout… create clear, predictable systems that support routines.” — Tara (11:02)

  Memorable Moment:
  Tara describes sourcing her favorite classroom chair inspiration from pedicure salons, leading to its popularity with colleagues. (11:46)

4. Using Centers in Classrooms with Multiple Students

(Starts at 14:36)

• Predictable Transitions and Visuals:

  • Success with centers requires clear routines, color-coded tables, and visual schedules.
  • Use timers, soft bells, or songs for smooth transitions.
  • Prepare ‘transition objects’—small favorite toys—to help reluctant students move between activities.

  Quote:

  “The main thing you’ll want to think about is how you’re going to make [centers] predictable, because going to centers involves transitions—a lot of transitions—and transitions can be hard.” — Tara (14:44)

5. Managing Multiple Individual Schedules

(Starts at 16:51)

• Keep It Simple With Visuals:

  • Each child has a laminated file folder pictorial schedule with all ‘locations,’ not activities.
  • Schedules are placed visibly on a shelf; helpers attach location cards as needed.
  • Allows both structured and flexible routines depending on the child’s day.

  Quote:

  “We take a file folder and print out all the pictures we need for the locations... so when you think location, you really don’t need a ton of pictures.” — Tara (17:32)

  Memorable Moment:
  Jason laughs at Tara’s unseen but animated hand gestures as she describes the file folder visual schedule system. (20:10)

6. Consistency in Visual Symbols

(Starts at 20:39)

• Mix & Match, But Be Consistent:

  • Different programs (Boardmaker, LessonPix) have varying styles; consistent use matters more than uniformity.
  • If a student uses a specific AAC device, ideally match the classroom visuals, but most children adapt well across settings.

  Quote:

  “It’s not so much the symbol or how that symbol looks that’s the most important, but consistency—using whatever symbol you choose.” — Tara (21:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On National Nothing Day:

  “I really could use a nothing day, but a nothing day when it’s minus 26 out—not great. A nothing day if you’re by the beach... that’d be awesome.” — Tara, on the joy and irony of National Nothing Day (03:14)

• Classroom Chair Revelation:

  “It has saved me! My school has them all over the place now because other special ed teachers have asked for them.” — Tara on her low-back rolling chairs (11:47)

• On Maintaining the Podcast:

  “You’ve made it through chaos in our lives at times. You’ve continued to do this and help so many people, and I think it’s amazing.” — Jason (23:15)

• Gestures Behind the Scenes:

  “The amount of hand gestures you just did while explaining that was hilarious... Maybe I should start putting these on YouTube just for the funny factor.” — Jason & Tara (20:10–20:39)

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Timestamps for Main Segments

• 04:46 — Balancing Play-Based Learning & Direct Teaching
• 08:12 — Teaching Unstructured Play
• 10:24 — Classroom Physical Layout & Special Furniture
• 14:36 — Centers and Predictable Routines
• 16:51 — Managing Individual Student Visual Schedules
• 20:39 — Visual Symbol Consistency

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Tone & Language

The episode is warm, upbeat, and accessible, with Tara’s compassion and humor shining through. Jason adds a supportive partner perspective and lighthearted trivia moments.

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Summary Useful for New Listeners

This Q&A episode offers clear, actionable advice for structuring autism-preK classrooms with a neurodiversity-affirming approach. Tara demonstrates how to blend connection and structure, implement visuals, and create classroom environments that genuinely support both regulation and skill acquisition. Listeners can expect practical solutions—blended with personal tips and vivid real-world examples—that help both children and educators thrive.

Transcript

[A]

We are back for another Q and A episode and I'm so excited to dig into the questions that were submitted this month. We will be talking about the balance between play based learning and one on one direct teaching and what areas to have in a classroom as well as how to manage one on one visual schedules in the classroom. Keep listening because this one is going to be a great episode. Hi, I'm Tara and this is the Autism Little Learners podcast. I am a speech language pathologist with a twist. I've run my own communication based classroom for over two decades and I'm so excited to share actionable tips and strategies for supporting young autistic children. My goal is to help you feel more confident and successful when teaching your autistic child or students at the early childhood level. If you are ready to learn some tried and true strategies that really work, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Hey, everyone. I have some exciting news to share. This episode marks one year, so since I started the Autism Little Learners podcast, I feel like I should do a happy dance. If you're listening in your car, do a little fist pump in the air for me. I'm going to have so much goodness coming your way in year two. My goal is to add an interview on a variety of topics each month, and I just love talking to other parents, professionals, and anyone who can help give you some new ideas to make your life easier. We're back today for another Q and A episode with my husband, Jason. And I'm sure you've all missed him over the holiday. Holiday season. He's been asking about you, so I knew it was time to pull together another Q and A show. If you're a new listener, Jason always has some random facts and trivia for us, and he lets us know what National Day it is. Jason, are you ready to fill us in?

[B]

I am.

[A]

All right.

[B]

This is going to be the greatest day ever.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you know what it's going to be?

[A]

Any guess on January 16th? Yes. I. I can't even guess. I don't know.

[B]

You have nothing.

[A]

National Cold Day. Because right here in Wisconsin right now, as we're recording this, the wind chill is minus 26.

[B]

It's cold.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But other than that, you have nothing.

[A]

No.

[B]

Good. Oh, It's National Nothing Day.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And National Nothing Day is celebrated in the US on January 16th every year. And the day is about doing nothing at all. Our daily routine can be extremely exhausting. And managing work and household chores, you know, all that stuff. So to break the Monotony of life. Doing nothing for a day is not a bad idea after all.

[A]

Wow. How well do you think I would do at that?

[B]

You wouldn't. You would fail. I'd give you an F because you always work, you're always busy.

[A]

I'm working on that. I really could use a nothing day, but a nothing day when it's minus 26 out. Not great. A nothing day if you're by the beach. On the beach. That'd be awesome.

[B]

That would be. That would be. All right.

[A]

Okay, what's next?

[B]

Little quiz for you.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

What do the 100 folds in a chef's hat represent?

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I can't even guess.

[B]

100 Ways to Cook an egg.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Well, that's what it said anyway when I looked it up. So we're going with it.

[A]

That's so weird. Well, thanks for the random facts.

[B]

That's an extremely random one, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah. You only have one for us today?

[B]

Just one.

[A]

All right, well, I'll give you guys a fact. You don't have to tell us the details, but we're recording this late in the evening. I was ready for bed, but Jason cut his finger tonight and he had to go to urgent care. And I was about to go to bed and I'm like, whoa, the podcast.

[B]

So the podcast.

[A]

Here we are. Here we are.

[B]

One year anniversary podcast. I know it's been a crazy day.

[A]

It has.

[B]

But I'm doing all right.

[A]

We're glad. So, yeah, if you want to give Jason a shout out and send him some healing vibes in the universe so his finger doesn't hurt.

[B]

My finger hurts.

[A]

Yeah. All right, Jason, are you ready for the questions that our listeners sent in this month?

[B]

I am. And the first question here is, how do you find a balance between play based learning and one on one direct teaching of skills?

[A]

Well, that one is a hot topic right now. And finding that balance between play based learning and teaching one on one direct skills can be kind of tricky. And I think it's because when we think of play, we think free play, kids doing whatever they want. And that's just not structured enough for a lot of our young autistic students. So I like to say use play based learning within structure. And what that means to me is that we continue to provide the structure during learning time. And that might look like the child checks their schedule. They come to the one on one table. That area has clear boundaries. So in my classroom, there's a shelving unit right behind me, one to the Right. And then a divider to the left so it's a very clear boundary area. And then I have fabric over the shelves to limit the distraction so kids aren't digging in the materials. And that physical structure can help kids feel less anxious, avoid wandering, and creates a predictable routine. Plus, it reduces those outside distractions in the classroom too. And this is where we're used to providing one on one direct teaching of skills. But we can also provide play based learning in that area for some kids who I'm still working on building that initial relationship. I'll pull out a favorite toy or two and use the toys to build connections by playing together. Once that relationship is built, I can model different skills during play, but I can also sneak in some direct teaching. So here's an example. I have a student who loves cocomelon toys. And Jason, you probably still don't know what cocomelon is.

[B]

We talked about it. I think the last podcast I was on and established that it was not the baby shark thing. It was.

[A]

No, it did. Well, they do have baby shark.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There is a cocoa melon version of baby shark.

[B]

Got it. Okay. Nope, don't know what cocomelon toys are. It's gone.

[A]

I think I need to show them. I'll do that tomorrow.

[B]

You should give me some to play with.

[A]

Yeah, I do have some here, so. Okay. So I have students, lots of students that love cocomelon. With this one student, we would play with the people in the van, and then I maybe start to slip a matching activity in front of the student. And the pieces that go on the matching activity I'd put in the van and I would model it. We'd match one and we'd shift our focus to the matching activity for just a minute. And then you do that. So you're using the play as kind of the vehicle to deliver these pieces for another activity. The same thing can be done with a lot of different activities that we typically use for one on one teaching. So obviously it's way more fun to address goals during play. But those of us in schools know that sometimes we need to probe and take data on specific skills that might require flashcards or really specific activities. But I hope this example of putting the pieces in the cocomelon vehicle and kind of using it as that bridge can help you merge play based learning with one on one direct teaching. All right, next question.

[B]

Here we go. How do you teach unstructured play? Is that just free time?

[A]

Yeah. So with a lot of our students, we introduce and slowly and gently expand their Play. So they might have one thing they like to do, and maybe it's putting the car down the ramp. And it takes some direct teaching from us to get them to do other things with the car. So I'll give you an example here coming up. But I like to start letting my students play the way they like. I like to observe them and come up with ideas to gently expand their play. And then I prepare visual supports that I can use to help teach them the new or extended play skill. So here's my example, Jason. If they like pushing a bus around, a logical next step might be to teach them how to put the people in the bus first. So I'd start by modeling it because it's just usually expanding those skills maybe isn't coming on their own without someone showing them directly teaching it. So I might put the people in the bus and model it and then refer to a picture showing people in the bus. And then as they start to understand that in a one on one setting, I would incorporate the visual into the play area where play is unstructured. A lot of our students will dump toys. Stim. Looks like they're stimming with toys and doing the same thing over and over. They kind of can get stuck and it's okay to let them do that. But also with that gentle expansion, we're kind of broadening their horizons on what other ways we can use the toys and they might find something that they really enjoy. So we're going to add more structure into that unstructured play area by maybe having the bus and the people and the visual support in a bucket. So when they take that out, they can see the visuals and have a reminder things they can do with that. So I hope that makes sense. It can be a long process, but the more that you help expand their play using toys that the child likes, the longer they'll be able to play on their own in that unstructured setting.

[B]

Next question is, what areas do you have in your classroom? So is this like the different sections they're asking about?

[A]

Like.

[B]

Yeah, like, let's see if I can do this. Okay. Oh, gosh. Sensory tables.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that following in? Okay. Calming corner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or a calming tent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

An area where they can go in there and kind of be by themselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I assume there's a desk area, like where they work and do stuff maybe.

[A]

Yeah. And with our little ones, it's like a little. A table.

[B]

Very little table. Little tiny, little short table.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, I'm out. I don't get any more that was good.

[A]

All right, you got it. Okay, so Jason gave us a great intro there. It's really important to give a lot of thought into that physical layout of your self contained classroom. So you want to create clear, predictable systems that support routines. And the physical layout is important for this. As Jason said, he kind of listed off some areas that he has seen in my classroom. And I have in fact two one on one work areas, which are the small little tables where we have a child's chair and then my chair. And I got these really this cool special chair. I should link it in the show notes because it has. It saved my back.

[B]

It was very popular.

[A]

Oh my gosh. It was very popular. Everyone wanted to try it out. And it's actually, I got the idea from when I would get a pedicure and the, the people giving the pedicure were on these short chairs, but they had a little back on it and they had wheels. And I was like, that's what I need. I need to be able to like move and turn and be low to the ground, but not on these kid sized chairs that are 12 inches or 10 inches off the ground. So I will link that in the show notes because it has saved me. And my school has them all over the place now because other special education teachers have asked for them because they love them so much. Anyway, so that's at the one on one work area. And then I have two small areas with little tables where it's kind of, for lack of a better word, boxed in. So you have the clear physical boundaries around it, like a divider, a shelf. And you know, there's one open area to leave isolated.

[B]

It's like an isolated area.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you've got bookshelves around, kind of like in a U shape, something like that.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

So it keeps their eyes from wandering.

[A]

Seeing everything else that's out, going on out in the classroom.

[B]

And this goes with maybe what you just talked about a minute ago with the fabric hanging over the front so they're not distracted.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Thank you for helping me describe that.

[B]

I'm learning stuff.

[A]

Yeah. And so sometimes in those areas, it's really nice too to have a child play with one of their favorite things. Things. But it's away from all the other eyes in the classroom because with a lot of our students, it's hard to share. And so having that little quiet spot can be really helpful. There is a swing in our classroom. I have a book area, a group area, play area, and then two independent work tables. And for those Independent work tables. They don't start out independent. We need to teach each child the routine at those tables to make sure they can do each of the activities. And one table has file folder activities or other matching activities, things like that, and the other has simple puzzles. And we teach kids to start at one spot at the table so they match their picture from their visual schedule to the table. They sit down at that spot, they do the activity in front of them, and then they move around clockwise till they finished four activities. And with this, they learn task completion, perseverance, and to finish these activities independently. And it doesn't happen right away. We help them at first, but I've had so many three year olds and four year olds that have learned to go around this table and actually get up out of their seat, move to the next seat. And that is such a great skill to have moving forward.

[B]

Next question is, for a classroom with eight students, do you recommend centers?

[A]

I think that's a great question. This one really had me thinking because I'm used to the way that I've done it in my classroom for 10 years. But it really depends on how your classroom is structured and how long the day is. The structure of having set centers that the students rotate through can be great. When it comes to predictable routines, the main thing you'll want to think about is how you're going to make them predictable. Because going to centers involves transitions, a lot of transitions. And transitions can be hard. I'd make sure to have visual schedules in place with a system where each child matches a picture to the next location. They're going to make it concrete and based on the location versus the activity. So I like to label my tables with colors. So you might have a blue table, a brown table, green table, and so on. And when the child checks their schedule, they go match the their green table picture to a larger green table picture on that table. And this really creates that predictability and kind of that muscle memory too, of, oh, I see this, I know where I'm going in the classroom. And it doesn't even matter what you have on that table, it gets them to the location. I would also have a signal that indicates when it's time to switch to the next location. So it might be a kitchen timer or a soft bell or a song that you sing. And this will also become a predictable routine that will help with transitions. I'd also recommend having a container with transition objects that can be pulled out proactively when a child needs one to encourage a smooth transition. So, Jason, a Transition object would be if I have a student that I know has a really hard time leaving that sensory table because it's so fun, I might have a favorite little matchbox car ready to go that they see. And when it's time to transition to the next thing, I simply hold it out and they're like, oh yeah. And it distracts them and you can kind of get them going to the next thing.

[B]

Okay, I remember you've talked about this, about their favorite toys and stuff like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And letting them hold them, using it as a tool.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It works like a charm.

[B]

The next question we have is how do you manage multiple students who use individual schedules? I've wondered about this since I've learned about the individual, the schedules in the way that you've described how they work to me. And I've seen you make them and whatnot. But it's interesting. Like in my mind I'm not in your classroom, but in my mind I visualize like this board with like 30 different things going on. And I don't know how the heck you guys keep it all straight.

[A]

Well, you're gonna like my biggest tip for this then, Jason. My biggest tip is to keep it simple. So I'm hoping that you'll be able to envision this. It's kind of hard to explain visuals in an audio format, but I will do my best. In my early childhood classroom, I started following a system that the ECSE teacher that I was team teaching with had implemented before I got there. And it was really genius and still is for a self contained classroom. And we've used it for the last decade because it works so well. So we take a file folder and we print out all the pictures we need for the locations and in the class. So I'm not putting things on there like art or you know, specific activities. We're putting locations. Green table, brown table, sensory table, group time, gym class, playground, bathroom, things like that. So when you think location, you really don't need a ton of pictures. Then we glued the two pages of these pictures into a file folder and laminated it. And next we print out all of the, all of those pictures again, another set and we laminate those and velcro them on top of the ones on the folder. So you're opening this folder and you have pictures of all the locations and you can take the one copy off. So each child had their own folder like this on the top of a 3 to 4 foot high shelving unit. And then on the front of that unit we had Their schedule. So it might say Aiden on it. And up above is this file folder that we open, and it has Aiden's picture on the top. So when it's time for Aidan to move to the next activity, whoever is in charge of kind of getting him there can just open the file folder and take out what he's doing next, put it on his schedule and show him. And so it really depends. You need to individualize it to each child. So. So some kids just had that one picture at a time on their schedule, and some have three or four. They understand the sequence. But the really great thing is that you look into the folder and you can see what they've already done that day. And this allows you some flexibility because sometimes Aiden maybe was having a tough day and it took him longer at Blue Table and he didn't have to leave at a certain time. We worked through it. And then when I bring him to a schedule, I quick put on whatever's next so we don't have to follow a real tight schedule. We can have some flexibility in there with this kind of setup. I explained the system in more detail in my visual Schedules Made Easy online course, and I'll link that in the show notes.

[B]

The amount of hand gestures you just did while explaining that was hilarious. And I was. Did not want to interrupt you.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

They can't see you. I know. But boy, I'll tell you what, she was really showing you how to fold the folder.

[A]

Pick up the piece.

[B]

It was very animated.

[A]

Dang. Maybe I should start putting these on YouTube just for the funny factor.

[B]

Our last question today is, do I need to use the same symbol type for all visual supports in the classroom? For example, boardmaker and lesson picks. Now, are those two program thingies that you use, are they like a projector thing, Like a smart board thing?

[A]

What'd they give you at Urgent Care? You are on fire tonight.

[B]

A lot of novocaine.

[A]

So he's exactly right. There are different programs, different ways that you get pictures, and some maybe look more like cartoon drawings. Some look like line drawings, like if you're making a stick figure. So my answer to this is yes and no. I feel like it's not so much the symbol or how that symbol looks that's the most important, but consistency, using whatever symbol you choose. So if you had the bathroom picture from board maker, use that one consistently. But let's say you like the lesson Picks picture of group time better than the boardmaker one. Go ahead and use the lesson picks one. Whatever you use Just be consistent. Now, if the child has an AAC device that uses specific symbol sets, you should consider using that set if you have access to it. However, kids learn to use different symbols and different settings, so they're really much more adaptable than we give them credit for. So it really is going to depend on each child and what's best for them when it comes to understanding the symbols. I really hope that helps. I'm still laughing about all my gestures because I was really this time trying not to gesture. You still did and I did, but they were smaller.

[B]

You were pulling back. I was, but you were really like, oh, I know.

[A]

I had to hold back. Okay, well, you guys, that is it for today. You gave me some questions that I really had to think about, so keep them coming. And, and if you like this podcast now that we're one year old, go and leave a five star review if you love it. And even better, leave a written review because that's going to help us spread the word and get this information out to more teachers and parents. What do you think, Jason? Should they leave a five star review just for my gesturing?

[B]

They definitely should. And don't forget the special Jason review on there, too.

[A]

Oh, so if someone leaves a review mentioning Jason, put it on there. Send me a screenshot to my email, autism little learners gmail.com and you're going.

[B]

To win a special prize and inflate Jason's ego.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I want to say I have watched you get very excited about creating this podcast and you said, I'm never going to miss a week. I'm going to hit it every time. And you've made it through chaos in our lives at times. You've continued to do this and help so many people, and I think it's amazing. And here we are on the one year, and we're ready for bed, but we still got it done, so. But I'm proud of you.

[A]

Thank you. Oh, now I'm gonna cry, you guys. Thank you, Jason.

[B]

That ought to earn me some stars.

[A]

Yeah, it's all for the stars. Thank you, honey. I love you. Well, you guys, thank you for listening and always being here. And I am gonna have that same goal for the next year, being here consistently for you every single Tuesday. So that's it for today's Q and A show. Thank you, Jason, for being here with me again. And we'll be back with another one next month sometime, hopefully.

[B]

My friend in Canada is eagerly awaiting it.

[A]

I bet. Yeah. Kelsey. Shout out to Kelsey.

[B]

Shout out to Kelsey.

[A]

All right, you guys. Talk to you next week, same time, same place. I'm sending a big virtual hug your way because you just finished another episode of the Autism Little Learners Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. If you have had success with any of the strategies that you learned about in this podcast, I would love to hear from you. Send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook. Autismlittlelearners don't forget to grab your free visual support starter set by going to autismlittlelearners.com visuals and always remember to find the good in every day. Sam.