Loading summary
Transcript142 lines
- [00:07]
Savannah Bota
Hi, guys. Welcome back to the Bondas podcast. I'm your host, Savannah Bota.
- [00:11]
Haley Jacoby
I'm your co host, Haley Jacoby.
- [00:13]
Savannah Bota
And we have a very exciting episode today. We have the founder, CEO, the man, the myth, the legend, John from Factor 5. John, thank you so much for being here today.
- [00:24]
Haley Jacoby
Yes, thank you.
- [00:25]
John
Thank you too for having me.
- [00:27]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. So Factor five is our most recent partnership, the most recent product slash treatment we've brought in on our clinic.
- [00:36]
Savannah Bota
And I'm so excited. I had been beta testing this for the past four months because I was really looking for a new no downtime peel. And I'd worked with a lot of different companies and different no downtime pills, but nothing like really wowed me and I really wanted to get those results and I was really impressed since we are predominantly an acne clinic with the hydrogen peroxide portion of this treatment and also the stem cells, because that really, really, like, just is the icing on top when it comes to post procedure healing and just making sure that the cells are functioning properly and the skin is at its healthiest. So I was so excited when I brought this on and started testing it in clinic. And I mean, it's been something all of our clients are loving and using. And I've been actually testing some of their products to retail in our clinic, which I don't want to say too, too much yet, which maybe by the time this is out it, but I first and foremost am obsessed with your eyelash eye cream serum. It is insane. Which we'll get into all of that. I mean, I don't know how I lived my last seven years in this industry without knowing about this.
- [01:45]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. And the thing I love so much, especially about the peel, the renewal dermal solution, is that it's great for acne, it's great for aging. Like, I feel like a lot of our peels maybe are geared towards one spectrum. Yeah. Of the thing, but it covers all bases with one specific treatment.
- [02:04]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, we're obsessed. So we're going to dive in a little bit and ask John to just tell us his story from the womb till now. No, I'm just kidding. You don't have to go there. But.
- [02:16]
John
Okay.
- [02:17]
Savannah Bota
No, but whatever you want to share, just tell the people a little bit about you.
- [02:22]
John
Okay. So my name's John. I initially became interested in stem cells. I used to work in trauma surgery when I was, you know, coming out of school. And I saw all kinds of accident victims and people had just been through it and I would talk to the surgeons about specific cases and we would kind of. The surgeons are a very well educated audience, but they, but they're, they also have kind of dark humor, right? And we would joke about different things that would happen. And sometimes after like a long surgery, we would all be resting in the break room and talking, get ready for the next one. And there was a joke that they made about the end of their careers, which was that stem cells eventually would come along and replace all of them. And that stem cells had the power to heal people in different ways. And I'm just a curious person. I always have been super interested and I read all the time. I'm constantly learning something. And so when I heard this, it. I was looking for something new to research, and this kind of met with some, I don't know, a light turned on inside my brain. This is like a instant aha moment for me. So I started reading about it like deep molecular biological journals, like in my spare time, and getting deeper and deeper and deeper. And I came up with sort of this way of understanding it, which, which totally changed my life. I, I thought, okay, look, the human body, it's not, we, the surgery audience, we're not actually healing you. Like nothing we do actually heals you. And nothing a physician could do, nothing a medicine can do actually heals you. The best thing we could do is put your body in an ideal state to heal itself. And so that, and that's the only thing medicine can do. There's no, you know, antibiotics can kill the bacteria, but that doesn't heal you. All they do is put your body in a place where it can heal itself. And so when I thought about that, I go, well, then it's. It's you that heals you. You know, it's your, it's your body that heals itself. You always are healing you. So if that's the case, what is it inside of you that's healing you? And as I kind of went layer after layer after layer, there's a lot of answers to that question. But one of the ones that they, you know, the scientific universe is sort of gravitating towards is, Is stem cells and their ability to produce these healing signals that can be read by cell types all over the body and how they return those cells to active, healthy living. And, you know, all we are is just this big bundle of cells. And so treating your cells at the, at the molecular level actually has the potential for healing you at the, at the whole body level. And so that was. Became the fascination of my life. I have been constantly interested in, in Helping people by coming up with cool ideas for, for medicines that people could get. As I research stem cells, one of the tragic things you'll realize is that for all the things we've proven in the lab, very few things are accessible to the common patient. Right. Like, there's very few stem cell treatments that you or me or anybody could just walk right out into the clinic and get. And I felt like, look, I'm a, I'm a businessman, I'm a researcher. I have as good of a shot as anybody on earth to make a company that actually brings some of this stuff to market. So that's what I'm going to do. And so in 2015, I started Zytogen. Cytogen Biotech is the parent company for Factor five.
- [06:00]
Savannah Bota
Okay, amazing.
- [06:02]
John
And that's how we got rolling.
- [06:04]
Savannah Bota
I love that.
- [06:04]
Haley Jacoby
So did you initially start out as your company being geared towards skincare products?
- [06:12]
John
Kind of. I think we always knew that that was an, that was a way that we could kind of demonstrate our technology to the public. I think we, we early on realized that skincare could be a landscape where our stem cell technology could shine. And one of the sort of, I don't know, awkward realities about being a scientific researcher is that there's, generally speaking, there's no money in it. So you have to kind of go around petitioning for grants and asking the government to help you fund or going to like a foundations, Bill and Melinda Gates type of thing, and constantly writing up proposals and asking people to fund your research. And it's problematic. It gets in the way of science because there's. You need money to do this stuff. And so one of our ideas was, well, if we could showcase our technology in a product that people could like and buy, then perhaps we could grow to the state where the product itself continues to fund our research. And we don't have to have these fits and starts in our research that you get with the grant writing world. We could just, we could just get after it and just keep going. And so early on, the idea of creating a brand that showcases our technology was, was sort of part of the business plan.
- [07:31]
Savannah Bota
I love that. That's amazing. And I know the backstory of why Factor 5 is the name, but if you want to tell them, I think it's really cool.
- [07:41]
John
So this is a. That story just kind of illustrates how little I really understood about the space when, when, when we were first starting. You gotta keep in mind, I'm kind of this nerdy researcher guy. So I'm reading all these journals and I'm getting. I'm getting deep into the. What the. What the. Like, what the published literature is saying about the space. And in the field of published literature, you have things like, you. You guys know, like, the Fitzpatrick scale is a great example where Fitzpatrick wrote the study. And. And everybody sort of was like, wow, that's a great. That's a great scale. We're going to use that. And now it's like part of the. The common vernacular we use in the aesthetic space. We use that term all the time. Well, I read a study that was about the five signs of aging, and it was, like, published in this great journal, and it had all these citations, and it was something that I felt like, okay, well, that's going to be one of those things that everybody's going to use from here on out. We're going to benchmark against these five signs of aging. And as I looked at those five signs of aging and I contemplated the growth factors that we were getting off of stem cells, I thought of the name. I thought of we make growth factors for the five signs of aging factor five. And that's how the name came about. But then nobody cared about the article.
- [09:00]
Savannah Bota
I'm done. I care so much. I care. You have won the Tyler by proxy.
- [09:06]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. And I think it's so cool, too, because every skincare company under the sun is derm. This. Skin this.
- [09:14]
Savannah Bota
Yeah.
- [09:14]
Haley Jacoby
What else is there? Epi this. Yeah. They all are in the same vein. And I think factor five, like, stands out.
- [09:21]
Savannah Bota
Yeah.
- [09:22]
Haley Jacoby
From that, I think it's cool.
- [09:25]
Savannah Bota
It sounds like a superhero. I love it. Yeah.
- [09:29]
Haley Jacoby
What was it? Fantastic Four? Is that what you're thinking?
- [09:31]
Savannah Bota
Oh, yeah, yeah. Fantastic Four. But factor five, I love it. Okay, and so then tell us, you know, how you. So you started off with your serum, and that's been a best seller, it's been in so many magazines, gotten a ton of awards, really gained traction. And you guys have a pretty small portfolio of products, which I personally love. I hate when brands, like, try to make, like, 50 different moisturizers, 50 different serums. Like, I love that you guys take your time when it comes out to. When it comes to bringing products, you know, and really think about them meticulously before just, you know, making a cleanser, just to make a cleanser. You know, you're really bringing some really cool stuff to the market. So tell us a little bit about RDs and, you know what, why you did it, why you love it, and.
- [10:15]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah, because that's Yalls most recent venture, correct?
- [10:19]
John
Yeah. RDs sort of came as a call it a collaborative partnership with our customers. We had, we had customers coming to us saying that they like the idea of a no downtime peel or they like, you know, they wanted a treatment modality. But one of the things that we had, we realized right away and we factor five we sort of had a desire to, to enter more into the treatment room with our esthetician customers. Most of our products were sort of either post care or daily kind of retail use products. So we wanted to fill a gap in our portfolio by coming a little bit closer to your actual hands on treatments in, in the room. And so we were looking and we had some customers come to us with problems with the existing peel products on the market. And so, you know, generally speaking our ethos here at factor five is we don't really want to make a product that we can't make better than the existing. Like why would we do a product that is we can't make it any better? We resisted, for example, I resisted the idea of making a cleanser for years because I was like, there's nothing I don't. You can't, you know, we, how do we improve upon the existing cleansers? And we finally decided to make one only because we felt like we could make a cleanser that prepared the skin for our growth factors better than some of the other cleansers out there. But at any rate, so I was, I looked at the acids and I said, you know, I'm not sure I can really, I can really make an acid that's better than, I mean they've kind of the markets figured out tca, they know what they're doing. I'm not really sure I can add to that. So I, for a long time we were like, no, I don't, I don't know that I can, we could make appeal because I don't really feel like it's not really a factor 5 product if it's not better than the existing products on the marketplace. And so, but then one of the things that happened is the more we talk to our customers, the more we realize there while the peel is the same and the acids are the same, they were getting a wide variability in outcomes because the patient biology was different. If you were treating a, like in your clinic, Savannah, you're treat, if you're treating acne.
- [12:33]
Savannah Bota
Yeah.
- [12:34]
John
I'm going to assume that you're treating a lot of young, otherwise relatively healthy people because acne sort of trends towards the younger ages. Right. But other clinics that are mainly anti aging in Nature. In large retirement communities, the bulk of their clinics or the bulk of their customer base are in their 60s and 70 year old. And you know, they have underlying health issues. When they reach that age, their skin just heals slower. The stem cells in their skin just produce less, they have less collagen, they have less elastin, they have less substrate for you to do anything with. And so even the note, the zero downtime peels were getting a wide variability in results with that audience. And so we saw that on young, healthy patients, they were getting pretty consistently good outcomes. But as the patients got older and let's call it less healthy, like if they had other comorbidities, if they're suffering from diabetes or what have you, they were healing slower and with poorer results. And so what we thought maybe we could do better is pair the peel with a really good stem cell treatment and make the two things one singular treatment. Because when you think about it, again, we're the science guys, we're the researchers. The other acids out there, all they're doing is they're sort of creating a superficial wound, right? They're putting a, a very low ph concentration of acid on your skin that, that is chewing you up, for lack of a better word. And then they're sort of like patting you on the shoulder and saying, hey, have a nice life and just sending you out of the room. And that's it. That's really all they offer you. And so we started experimenting with what if we paired that treatment with a high density solution for growth factors and we put the two things together and made it a single treatment. And as our research, as we proceeded with the research, what we found is that we were getting far more consistent results and that the results, again, one of the things that people struggle with, even us researchers, is the breadth of what stem cells can possibly do because they're sort of evolutionarily or biologically prescribed for so many things in the human body. When we started pairing the stem cells with the, the acid treatment, we were finding results that were even unexpected for us. You know, really, really good results. For example, Savannah, you just came back from Dubai with us. I mean, do you see these? We never really imagine it as an active acne treatment, but the people in Dubai put it together and like their results, or maybe an acne scarring treatment. Just outstanding, right? So some of these things are more than what you would expect from your typical zero downtime peel.
- [15:30]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, I mean, it was really amazing to see. You know, they kind of pushed the limits over there overseas And I really love to see, you know, how they're incorporating this peel so that, I mean, I learned so much. I know I taught them some stuff too, but I, I learned quite a bit when I was there that I'm really excited to bring back here. And yeah, I mean it was truly an amazing experience and they did so well. I mean, the results that I really saw a huge difference with was acne scarring and usually, you know, microneedling or TCA cross or subscision like thought would be your go to when it comes to treating more difficult scars. But they were getting it done with, you know, the factor 5 feel, the RDS feel. So I mean, I'm excited to start messing with it a little bit more and treating that.
- [16:13]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah, no, I, I have personally gotten the treatment done and my skin normally, I would say, does not tolerate.
- [16:20]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, he breaks out after you look at him. Wrong. This kid breaks out.
- [16:24]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. No, if. Do not look.
- [16:26]
Savannah Bota
He's a purger.
- [16:27]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah, don't look.
- [16:28]
Savannah Bota
And as I've explained to him, most treatments, you know, that are going to move the needle, some purging, when we're getting more activity in the skin, you know, it can happen. But we were really shocked to see after he did the RDS peel, which he was very reluctant to do, John, because he is.
- [16:44]
Haley Jacoby
No, we were going to LA the next week. It wasn't. I wasn't afraid of the peel. I was afraid of doing a first time no downtime peel because we've had no downtime peels in the past where he broke out. I broke out a lot and I peeled a lot more than what was I was expecting. But I'm glad I did it. When we went to la, my skin was glowing. I again, it helped so much with. I had some pigment on my skin. Pie. Yeah.
- [17:10]
Savannah Bota
It looks like a little doll.
- [17:11]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah, I know. And it's funny because like so many people in our circle who aren't in the clinic every day, who aren't, they're like texting me, they're like, what are you doing differently with your skin? Like your skin looks like glass. I'm someone who's always struggled with their skin. Even if it's clear, it's not glowy, it's not. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, it's just there.
- [17:33]
Savannah Bota
It's not bad. It's not great. It's just like it's there. But he did not break out. I think he had just like one small one which is huge for him because he usually Gets multiple. And I really believe it's due to the hydrogen peroxide plus the second step of the peel, which is the stem cells. And when you calm down that inflammation, when you're stimulating that, any treatment that we're doing can stimulate some inflammation in the skin when we're trying to rework the structures of the skin and the proteins. But I really believe that having the stem cell proponent after is going to help not only with speeding up healing, but reducing that inflammation and some of that residual outfall.
- [18:10]
John
And just to add an addition to that, I find that to be a really fascinating story because our peel are, sorry, our, our TCA is actually pretty strong. I mean, we, we release it at a 2.1 ph.
- [18:23]
Savannah Bota
Oh my gosh, I want to get into this too. We, you need to take them to school, John, with a PH lesson here in a minute.
- [18:30]
John
So, yeah, the, the, and this is super common, believe me. Don't feel bad if you're one of the people that do this, but everybody wants to know what's the acid concentration? In fact, for you estheticians listening your state boards, that's pretty much the question. They want to know too, what's the concentration of the acid in there? But when you're manufacturing an acid based product, just a, just a quick background for all of you, you always start with the acid. And the acid by itself is very, very strong. So it's much stronger than what would end up in the final product. And as you go about making the product, you add a buffering agent which essentially you use to get the acid to the appropriate PH level for a final product. So basically, you know, you can imagine a very caustic acid that would just burn a hole straight through your face. Then we add a buffering agent and we can, we add it carefully, carefully until we get the PH just right. So the reason I tell you that story is that you understand that the acid concentration really is not the best indicator of how strong the product is going to be. The best indicator of how strong the acid in your product is going to be is what the PH says. So you could have a, you could have a 45 TCA, but if they buffer it down to a 2.9 pH, it's actually going to be less strong than our 29 TCA product. So what we've done is other products out there up 33, 35, 37, 40% TCA, but their pH is still trend closer to 3, which is in the measurement of acids. That's a weaker acid. We, we put a 29% TCA in there. So it's. Which is, it plays nice with most state boards. I think just about every state board.
- [20:16]
Savannah Bota
For which I appreciate is the just upfront honesty and the ethical side of it. I mean, my whole feel is results driven ethical aesthetics. And you guys are very upfront about that, making sure you're protecting your customers. Because I've seen all kinds of stuff, not even with no downtime pills, but even with companies that are microneedling and trying to, you know, sell devices and telling people they're compliant and then it backfiring and a lot of people go out of business for that. So I think it's really amazing that you guys are so honest and, you know, really do clarify that and make sure it is compliant with most estheticians so that they're able to access this, use this, and get better results for their clients.
- [20:55]
John
Yeah, well, thank you. I mean, look, we're, we're the researchers. We're not clinicians, we're not practitioners, we're not providers. That's you. And we understand that it, that we're in a relationship with you essentially. Like, we, we're going to do our best to help you look good and to help you have great products. And in turn, you guys teach us a lot about how it works in the real world. And like I said, I love my estheticians, I love the nurses and doctors I work with because I learn more from you than anybody else. You teach me about how our products are actually working in real life. And so at any rate, that's why we went with a. Our ph. So sorry to tie in this all back together, A Ph of 2.1 is pretty strong. And so for you, Tyler, to have a lower peeling and a lower reaction than you get to most products, to me, that speaks to the stem cell component, that speaks to the formulation of the chemistry, a little bit about the hydrogen peroxide, but it helps us by making the two things into one product. It helps us get away with a pretty strong acid that can really do. It can really help your skin. It can be more of a treatment product than some of the weaker acids out there with, with still without any of the really negative consequences of using a strong acid. So that's one of the reasons I think that Renu is taking off.
- [22:22]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, I agree. And I mean, it comes to that with like everything in the industry. Everyone's like, how much percent vitamin C is in this or how much niacinamide is this, how much retinol is in this? And I think People forget that formulation and PH really is going to triumph. The percentage of whatever is in whatever. And I think, you know, just our mindset in the world is like, more is better. You know, like, if you, you know, have more, it's higher, it's stronger, it's going to be better for you. But that's just not how science works. And I think it's really important that, you know, we're getting that message out there. I try every day with talking about percentages, not even with peels, but just skincare products. You know, people really don't understand. And sometimes also higher percentages of ascorbic acid and things of that sort can cause more irritation. So it's like, yes, you might be getting more, but you don't need that much, and you're going to get the same result, if not better, at a lower percent.
- [23:12]
Haley Jacoby
But again, it oxidized, like, three days before you got it in through the shipment. Like, so much goes into a formulation.
- [23:19]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, but no fault to anyone, because it's something like, you don't learn that in aesthetic school. And like, I've been so lucky to work closely with, you know, CEOs and founders and formulators for so many different companies, and they have literally blown my brain and blown my mind time after time and just teaching me and helping me understand. And I love that I'm able to be a vessel and help bring that education, because, you know, we're not taught that in aesthetic school. We're not taught about pH, we're not taught about formulations, we're not taught, you know, all these things is really, you know, I feel like it's just marketing and reps trying to sell stuff. And, you know, it's not until you kind of lift the veil and, you know, go behind the curtains where you start to see and understand. And I know a lot of estheticians don't get that privilege or get that opportunity to be able to hear and see that. So that's why I like to bring it to the podcast and bring it to my social media so I can share my knowledge and just elevate us as an industry and help people understand, you know, what we're really doing and what matters and what is just marketing B.S. and what, you know, really moves the needle when it comes to these formulations and products.
- [24:21]
John
Well, I, for one, really appreciate that as well. I mean, and I. And I appreciate you using your platform for the way that you do. We get asked all the time because we, not only are we stem cell research, we also have our own manufacturing facilities and we all make our own products. So we're also formulators and we get asked all the time about what's the percentage of stem cells, stem cell media in this product? And it's a very like, I understand the question, I understand why people want to know, but it's a extremely complicated question to ask because they're, they're, it's, it's all about how you're making your stem cells. Right? So, yeah, really not about how much of the liquid it's. Stem cell conditioned media is like a watery liquid. It's not so much about how much liquid goes in, it's about how much stem cell proteins are in the liquid that goes in. And different researchers get different outcomes there. So it's not a really, it's not an apples to apples comparison to say ours is 10% and theirs is 5%. It would make sense if we were making the exact same stem cell conditioned media, but we don't. Everybody's varies quite a bit. And I could tell you the outcomes of some experimentation that we've done, which would blow your mind. I mean, it's about, I don't, I don't necessarily want to go down the exosome rabbit hole, but you hear people talk about, oh, we have 2 billion, 3 billion, 4 billion exosomes in our vial. We, we ran a, a test at UC Davis Laboratories, which if you're not from California, UC Davis is a, is a very big university here in California. But it's more than that. California, we, the taxpayers of California, we voted to have the state fund stem cell research in California.
- [26:03]
Savannah Bota
That's amazing.
- [26:04]
John
Yeah, billions, billions and billions.
- [26:06]
Savannah Bota
My taxes go to fixing roads that never gets fixed.
- [26:10]
John
Listen, a lot of Californians would probably prefer that now because, you know, 10 years later, we don't really have a lot of outcomes from that research. But the point I was making is that the California government invested a lot of those funds in UC Davis because it had such a great stem cell institute already. So there's a big universe. There's a big facility there called the center for Regenerative Medicine. Anyway, the reason I tell you all that, so you understand, UC Davis knows their stuff. We, we, they're only about an hour away from us. And so we, we made a, a sample of our exosome product and we sent it into them. And they were, you know, we were expecting like what the industry talks about, 4 billion, 5 billion exosomes or whatever. We were getting 300 billion exosomes per, per milliliter which is absolutely nuts. So the point I'm trying to make is there's a crazy amount of variability in, in the, in the outcomes of what you do in the. In the lab. Like, what you see behind me, and.
- [27:10]
Haley Jacoby
That'S what I love so much, is like, you are so many of the companies we work with love them. So I feel like you're the first person who is like a scientist formula. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's everything behind the brand.
- [27:25]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, it's really. It's really amazing.
- [27:27]
Haley Jacoby
Like, you're the CEO of this company, you're the founder, but you're also in the lab on a Sunday at 2pm that's amazing.
- [27:33]
Savannah Bota
But yeah, to that point, for my listeners and podcast listeners, well, that's what y'all are. I'm tired today. I'm still like have a Dubai hangover. But a lot of the stuff on the market is not what you think it is. I think it is kind of scary how it's not as regulated as it should be. And so that's why I go above and beyond when it comes to bringing any kind of growth factor, stem cell, exosome, what have you into my clinic to make sure that they have those testings and that they have the proof in the pudding. Because I have, unfortunately, in my earlier days of my career, worked with a company that, you know, ended up finding out they didn't have any exosomes. You know, they weren't alive, they weren't active. It wasn't what they were saying it is. And so there is a lot of snake's oil on the market. So even though you hear stem cell and all of these things and all these bu where it's just do your research and really talk to the people. Don't just talk to the reps. Make sure that they have clinical findings and backings to support their data. Because I would say more don't have stem cells or exosomes in them than those that do. And that's actually really scary. And you know, as a provider, as an esthetician, as a nurse, whoever, you know, you want to make sure you're doing right by your patients. And even though it's not your fault that you're being lied to and misled, and sometimes the reps don't even know or even the company doesn't know, like they just, or, you know, aren't going to put the extra money and backing to go really find out quality control and quality testing. So right now, SPAN only uses plated and Factor five when it comes to any kind of stem cells or exosomes, and I wholeheartedly stand behind them.
- [29:03]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. And, like, the one thing I'll say is that the amount of emails I get every single day from stem cell companies, exosome companies, and because it's a.
- [29:13]
Savannah Bota
Money grab for a lot of people, it's not ethical at all.
- [29:16]
Haley Jacoby
And Savannah is the one who found factor five, who did and was like, hey, reach out to them. Let's, like, set up a meeting months ago. And that's always. That's always when I know that it's really Savannah bota approved is when she sees it on her own, she researches it.
- [29:34]
Savannah Bota
And we have people knocking on our door every day.
- [29:36]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:37]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, Every day. And I hate that. I'm like, I'll come to you. I'm like a cat. I'm like, don't try to pursue me. Let me pursue you. Yeah, I definitely.
- [29:46]
John
That's pretty complimented, then. I mean, we work really hard to make it good stuff. But I'm very complimented that you found us.
- [29:54]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, yeah. They didn't come to me, which I love. I love going to people first. It's my favorite thing, because usually it's the opposite. And then I'm like, I don't know. I get the ick already. I'm like, oh, they want. It's. You know, I'm just. I'm hard to get. So. But what was I gonna say? So the eyelash eye cream serum I'm so excited about. So this is stem cell eye cream that also, you guys noticed, started. So did it come out as just an eye cream? And then customers were like, oh, my God, my lashes are growing. And then you renamed the packaging and, like, switched it and put lash to include that or kind of tell me the story about that, because I'm obsessed with that. I lately have been so lazy at nighttime. I don't know what's happened to me. I feel like I must be deficient in something. But I have been so lazy when it comes to doing my lash serum. Like, I will do everything, but I'm like, fuck the neck cream. Not gonna do my lash serum or my hair serum tonight. And so I really love that you have a product. One that's a twofer, which is our favorite word. I think we said twofer so many times in Dubai. I love that. And I love that it's, you know, more budget friendly so you don't have to have an eye cream and an eyelash serum. And on top of that, it's like, time is money, baby.
- [31:04]
Haley Jacoby
There's no pro.
- [31:05]
Savannah Bota
Yeah, prostaglandin, which is a big one. And I use Revitalash. I don't have issues with it, but a lot of people have been weary about it because of the prostaglandin, and it can, for some people, cause hollowing of the under eye and fat loss. So I'll let you take it away. John, tell us all about her.
- [31:22]
John
Okay, so we. We. When we launched the regenerative serum, that was our very first product. That was in 2016. And this is. I mean, like I said before, I'm really. You know, we learned so much from our customers. We launched Regenerative Serum. We were running some subsequent analysis of it. We do. We do clinical testing of our products in terms of. We do vis. Like, massive visio studies. We do all kinds of work with local dermatologists. And one particular gal came in and she was saying that she felt like our regular regenerative serum had grown her eyelashes, which is not something that was even on our radar at all. We never imagined that that was possible. And so, you know, we kind of thought she was full of it. Like, we were like, okay, yeah, cool. But, like, we didn't really. We didn't really invest in that. We just said, okay. And we. We did her normal Vizia pictures and as part of the. Of the protocol, and we gave her some products, sent her on her way. And it was weeks later that we were going through the pictures and analysis to try to write up our white paper report on it when we noticed how long her eyelashes had grown. And they were act. They were stunning. I mean, I'll. I'll shoot you guys the pictures, but it was obvious. It was like, blatantly obvious. For a bunch of guy researchers like us, we're like, dang, those are really. Those have really grown. So we started doing our. It's the same thing we always do. We just. We're like, okay, that's not what we expected. How did that happen? So we went back to the literature, and we. And we read everything we could about it, and we realized that there are some pathways through which it usually pertains to blood flow. Believe it or not that there's some growth factors in the stem cell condition media that produce a topical blood flow. Angiogenesis is the term they use that. And the blood flow brings nutrients to the hair follicle, which helps the hair follicle be really, really healthy. And then when it gets that healthy, it starts to grow more. And so it's very Natural. It's very normal. So we. We thought, well, then let's see if we can really maximize the value of this. And so we started formulating a product around that idea. And we're like, well, you know, the world is filled with eye creams. Everybody's got an eye cream. What if we could make an eye cream that you just apply? It could be really forgiving. Like, just can rub it on there. Like, you know, you don't have to be dainty with a little brush. Just really forgiving product that would also grow your eyelashes. So we'll. We'll make it have the growth factors that will calm, like, fine lines and wrinkles and dark circles and, like, a really good eye cream, but we'll also see if we can grow your lashes. And that was sort of the. The challenge we gave ourselves. And then we formulated this product. We were very concerned about the prostaglandins on the marketplace. You know, we. We factor five feel that that's totally unethical to put that in a product with all the research out there now saying that it's pretty bad for a lot of people. To us, it's a. It's a. It's a no, no. So we. We had to formulate around that, and we came up with this. With this product, The. The factor five iron lash Cream. And it's been. You know, it's been one of our kind of sleepers that everybody finds eventually. And they. And they love it.
- [34:49]
Savannah Bota
The way it's going to be my first product at SVA from your line. It's pretty iconic.
- [34:54]
Haley Jacoby
No? That this would be.
- [34:55]
Savannah Bota
So tell them to start getting them ready because it's going to sell out.
- [34:58]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. This will be my mom's favorite product. She. I gave her a revital wash that we got.
- [35:04]
Savannah Bota
Yeah.
- [35:05]
Haley Jacoby
And she. My mom is not a girly girl, let me tell you. Savannah knows this. I don't know if we've talked about it, but just think of the opposite of a girly girl. That's. My mom never has worn mascara, eyeliner, doesn't have any handbags. And so she can't use the revitalash because, like, she can't. She's never put anything on her total eye. No. The revital, because you know how it has a little tiny applicator.
- [35:27]
Savannah Bota
So she's like stabbing her eye every time.
- [35:29]
Haley Jacoby
She's like, she can't do it.
- [35:30]
Savannah Bota
Your poor mom. I'll come over and help her. But no, this eye cream is gonna be great for her. So let me ask you if you have the eye cream. You wouldn't need the lash and brow serum. Or would it just be, like, an alternative double whammy? Would it be too much?
- [35:42]
John
Yeah. So we made the lash and brow serum for a younger audience. It doesn't really want an eye cream.
- [35:48]
Savannah Bota
Everyone needs an eye cream, like, five years old. They should start using it.
- [35:53]
Haley Jacoby
Cyrus is using a nitrate.
- [35:55]
Savannah Bota
Yeah. Cyrus is on retinol.
- [35:57]
Haley Jacoby
Just kidding.
- [35:58]
John
We're just kidding.
- [36:00]
Savannah Bota
He's like, please, not with me on this episode. He's like, drinking water. We're a little crazy, but people know we're joking.
- [36:06]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah. Hopefully. We are.
- [36:08]
Savannah Bota
We are. Cyrus does not use retinol.
- [36:10]
John
No. Good, good, good.
- [36:11]
Savannah Bota
Okay. But I wanted to talk about the sourcing of the stem cells. So you guys are getting them from adipose tissue. So you're getting it from lipo patients.
- [36:20]
John
Correct. Yeah. Our. Our research theory on this is really simple. Skin is the biggest organ in the body. If you believe, you know, your skin is exposed to the radiation from the sun, it's exposed. Historically speaking, if your skin gets a wound in it, you die. Right. You get an infection. If you didn't have something to prevent that, you get an infection and you die. So in your body's best interest to have some kind of very, very strong immune regulatory system very near to your skin to prevent your skin from corruption and death. And a fun fact about adipose, about fat tissue that most people don't know, is it has somewhere between 500 and 1000 times more stem cells in fat than any other tissue type in the whole human body.
- [37:09]
Savannah Bota
That is.
- [37:11]
John
Well, our theory is that you evolved to have those many stem cells in your fat because your skin is that first line of defense. If your skin gets compromised and you're a caveman, you get a cut on your skin, and it just instantly turns to an infection. You just die. And there goes the human species. Right. So you have so many stem cells in your fat tissue because fat is immediately adjacent to your skin. It's right underneath your skin, and it's there to sort of serve as a first responder. If you know how stem cells work, they actually migrate to the site of a wound, and they express their growth factors out into the wound to help you not die.
- [37:51]
Savannah Bota
So they excrete it.
- [37:53]
John
Yeah. So there's all kinds of stem cells you could choose. We. We looked at bone marrow. We looked at umbilical cord blood, and umbilical stem cells, we looked at. There's parthenogenic stem cells. There's different families that we looked at. But in the end. The one that seems like it's the best for wound healing and for skin repair is the stem cell that comes from the fat just adjacent to your skin. And so that's why we decided to use adipose derived stem cells.
- [38:23]
Savannah Bota
I love it. That's amazing.
- [38:25]
Haley Jacoby
I know. Savannah was. I think at our first meeting, Savannah was like, oh, can I give you my fat?
- [38:30]
Savannah Bota
And you give lipo, if you mind.
- [38:33]
Haley Jacoby
He was like, you could.
- [38:34]
John
First of all, we have to fatten you up a little bit.
- [38:38]
Savannah Bota
I'll go to a fat farm. I would love to have my own. You know, I was actually thinking this the other day, which you could never do, but it would be so cool to, like, be able to. You know, I think Madonna or someone tried to do it with their own stem cells and sell it and bottle it and sell it. But apparently, like, you can't use your own body. It's kind of like, like, it's illegal to be a prostitute. It's like, same kind of thing. You can't use your body to make money, even if it's stem cells.
- [39:04]
John
I'm not aware. I'm not aware. I mean, I know you can, like.
- [39:07]
Savannah Bota
Donate it, but like, if I was like, you know, getting my own stuff and bottling it and being like, this is the Savannah stem cell. Like, I've been told maybe I got wrong info, and if so, I'm doing it. But I was told that I couldn't do that.
- [39:20]
John
I would. I'm not aware of any law around that. And if I was the consumer, I would choose yours over Madonna's. There's no commentary on Madonna.
- [39:28]
Savannah Bota
That is so nice.
- [39:29]
John
What is she, 65? I don't know. She's, you know. Yeah. Her biology is probably not as healthy as yours.
- [39:36]
Savannah Bota
Yeah.
- [39:37]
John
And no, you could do that. There's a. I would say there's a supply chain problem with that. Right. Because when a lot of people want that product, there's only so much of your.
- [39:48]
Savannah Bota
I feel like, on an IV in a bed.
- [39:49]
Haley Jacoby
Like, no, you'll be like eating like 20 Big Macs every day.
- [39:54]
John
Just, hey, maybe do things you would do for your customers.
- [40:00]
Savannah Bota
We could do a factor 5x Savannah bota from me. I love that. But yeah, I'm trying to think, is there anything else that you want to touch on? Anything else you want to share? We do have a code for any estheticians that are looking to bring on factor five. It's just Savannah 20, right.
- [40:15]
Haley Jacoby
Savannah Bota 20, I believe. And they were nice enough to give that for y'all to get 20% off your opening order, and you're gonna love it.
- [40:25]
Savannah Bota
I mean, I am very picky, and again, I. Savannah Boda is not bought and sold. Okay, that is, like, the worst rumor. Well, there's a lot of bad ones, but that one pisses me off, because I am the seeker.
- [40:36]
Haley Jacoby
Yeah.
- [40:36]
Savannah Bota
I choose my warriors.
- [40:38]
Haley Jacoby
That is true.
- [40:40]
Savannah Bota
Everything I do is so cultivated. I put a lot of thought in it. I'm not just, you know, an industry plant that just is for everybody. Like, so if I put my name on something, it's a big deal.
- [40:51]
Haley Jacoby
So. I completely agree. If you are an esthetician, which most of y'all who are listening are, you can go to, I think, wholesale.factor5skincare.com and that'll bring you to the form you have to fill out. Once you have an account, you can use the code.
- [41:06]
Savannah Bota
Yay. Yeah. Anything else, John, that you want to share? Any wisdom, any thoughts? Do you have a quote that you live by that you share.
- [41:16]
John
For that question? I want to say thank you to you guys. We had a lot of fun getting to know you, and I really appreciate that you would, you know, be so kind to my brand and to. There's a lot of folks over here that. That do a lot of very intense scientific labors in total anonymity. Nobody knows about them. They never get any credit. They never get any shout outs. Are.
- [41:40]
Savannah Bota
They were two that we met in Dubai, is it? Or more.
- [41:44]
John
Those two, among others. Yeah, absolutely. Kristin Rube and Dr. Dave Satura. They both deserve.
- [41:49]
Haley Jacoby
They're amazing, hard work, phenomenal people. And that's one thing I'll say that we have always talk about on the podcast. But Savannah's, you know, first. The part she cares about the most, obviously, is that it's ethical, it's results driven, and it works. But second to that is the people that are behind the company, that people so important to us, because every brand we work with at this point is like family to us, and y'all absolutely blew that out of the water. Did not disappoint. Amazing people behind this brand, and that's something that speaks so much more. It's not just, yeah, you can have.
- [42:25]
Savannah Bota
An amazing product, you know, a thriving company, but if it's full of people that you wouldn't want to be friends with or people that are just, you know, not living with the Lord or just not good people, you know, like, just genuinely not good humans, it's hard, and it makes it a lot more difficult. So being able to be around people that are just genuine and kind and just here for the right reasons in the industry. For the right reasons. Really trying to make a difference. Like, I mean, I just want to work with people that can sleep at night, knowing they're a good person and doing right by their patients, their clients, their customers. So I really appreciated that. And we had such a good time being able to work closely with you guys in Dubai. We're so excited for next year. And I'm going to kick your ass on sandboarding, so get ready.
- [43:08]
John
We'll see.
- [43:09]
Savannah Bota
We'll see.
- [43:10]
Haley Jacoby
They made a bet for next year.
- [43:12]
Savannah Bota
Yeah. He's going to sell me the company if I win. I told him I'd give him SBA if he wins. We're playing big stakes. No, I'm just kidding. I won't. Well, maybe we'll do like, you have to buy me dinner.
- [43:24]
Haley Jacoby
So catch John and Aspen training or. I don't know where you could. Where else you could train. I know, but, like, I feel like the.
- [43:34]
Savannah Bota
They have some land. I feel like he could get some dirt and, like, make little mounds in his backyard and teach the kids.
- [43:38]
Haley Jacoby
But aren't the mechanics the same?
- [43:41]
John
But you're right. We probably need to get to the. Get to the dunes to make it the real thing.
- [43:45]
Savannah Bota
I know. Well, I'm already practicing mentally, so.
- [43:49]
John
Good.
- [43:50]
Haley Jacoby
Thank you so much for coming on.
- [43:52]
Savannah Bota
It was amazing.
- [43:53]
John
Really appreciate it.
- [43:54]
Savannah Bota
Thanks for taking the time on your busy Sunday to be here with us. We appreciate you so much, and I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. And if you want us to have him back, just let us know and we can dive even deeper. And make sure it's the first date.
- [44:07]
Haley Jacoby
You know, this is the first day. Make sure you guys go open account, get RDs for your patients. We promise they are going to love that, and we love you guys.
- [44:16]
Savannah Bota
Happy Monday.