Healing, Hustle & Hard Truths with JB Copeland

Summary

Podcast Title: The blondEST
Episode: Healing, Hustle & Hard Truths with JB Copeland
Host: Savanna Boda
Release Date: January 27, 2025

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Introduction and Guest Background

In this compelling episode of The blondEST, host Savanna Boda welcomes JB Copeland, a dynamic personality renowned for his influential Instagram presence and his heartfelt journey through healing and personal transformation. Savanna introduces JB by highlighting his significant impact on her own healing journey and his ability to resonate with a growing audience of 300k followers.

Early Life and Role as a Youth Pastor

[02:21]

JB begins by sharing his upbringing in a Christian household, deeply rooted in church life. As the eldest of three brothers, he describes his father as both a pastor and a coach, navigating the challenges of moving from Louisiana to Arizona, and finally settling in Texas. JB reflects on the pressure of being a pastor's child, stating:

"I was raised in church, and as a kid, you don't really know. It's just what it is, like this is who God is."

Struggles with Addiction and Early Adulthood

[04:28]

Transitioning into his teenage years, JB candidly discusses his battle with addiction during his college football career at North Carolina. Multiple concussions forced him to retire prematurely, leading to a spiral of substance abuse that included marijuana, Adderall, Xanax, and painkillers. He admits:

"I was pretty deep in addiction with Adderall, Xanax, really painkillers."

Hitting Rock Bottom and Entering Rehab

[08:05]

JB recounts the pivotal moment when his addiction culminated in a severe panic attack, mistaking it for a heart attack. This health scare was a wake-up call that led him to seek help. He describes his experience in rehab as both the worst and best time of his life, emphasizing the internal struggle and the facade he maintained as a youth pastor:

"Rehab was like the worst, but also the best time of my life."

Healing and Personal Growth

[12:01]

During rehab, JB confronts his past traumas and begins to understand the roots of his inadequacy and the pervasive impact of generational trauma. He emphasizes the necessity of self-awareness and personal responsibility in the healing process:

"People want healing, but there has to be some acceptance... They have to take control of their own story."

Generational Trauma and Family Dynamics

[24:32]

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the effects of generational trauma. JB and Savanna explore how dysfunctional family dynamics and unaddressed emotional wounds have shaped their identities and relationships. JB shares his resentment towards his parents for their lack of emotional support, while Savanna relates by discussing her own struggles with parental competition and expectations:

"We grew up in the same house, but he had a completely different experience."

Building a Platform for Healing and Community

[53:31]

JB transitions into discussing his journey of building a supportive community through social media. Starting modestly, his platform rapidly grew to over a million followers by sharing honest stories about addiction and healing. He credits his success to consistency and a genuine desire to help others:

"I started posting, and then a video popped off in July. By December, I was at 200,000 followers."

Importance of Self-Love and Emotional Health

[63:00]

Both JB and Savanna emphasize the critical role of self-love and maintaining a healthy relationship with oneself. They discuss the importance of self-reflection amidst constant external distractions and the necessity of setting boundaries to foster personal growth. Savanna highlights her practice of dedicating time each morning to self-reflection:

"I made a huge switch in my life years ago of just having 30, 40 minutes in the morning just to myself."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[76:43]

As the episode concludes, JB outlines his future plans, including launching a coffee table book, expanding his platform, and creating resources like the Sappy Hotline to support mental and emotional health. Savanna and JB reflect on their ongoing healing journeys, underscoring the importance of compassion, resilience, and continuous personal development. JB leaves listeners with a powerful mantra:

"Living life with thick skin and a soft heart."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Repressing Trauma:

  "[06:50] It doesn't go away. It just grows. And then it boils up..."

• Panic Attack Experience:

  "[09:44] I had a massive panic attack and thought I was dying."

• Generational Trauma:

  "[25:15] I'm not going to be a victim. I'm going to take control of my own story."

• Self-Love and Healing:

  "[77:27] Love is never wasted. That's our generation's need the most."

Key Topics Discussed

1. Addiction and Recovery:
   JB's candid recounting of his struggles with substance abuse, leading to his time in rehab, serves as a critical turning point in his life story.

2. Generational Trauma:
   Both speakers explore how unaddressed emotional wounds and family dynamics influence personal development and relationships.

3. Building a Supportive Community:
   JB discusses leveraging social media to create a platform that fosters healing and connection among followers facing similar challenges.

4. Self-Love and Emotional Resilience:
   Emphasizing the importance of maintaining a strong sense of self, the conversation highlights strategies for personal growth and emotional well-being.

5. Future Endeavors and Continued Healing:
   JB outlines his plans to expand his platform with new resources aimed at supporting mental and emotional health, reinforcing his commitment to helping others.

Final Thoughts

This episode of The blondEST offers a profound exploration of personal trauma, addiction, and the journey towards healing. Through honest dialogue, JB Copeland and Savanna Boda provide valuable insights into overcoming generational struggles, the power of self-love, and the importance of building supportive communities. Their shared experiences and mutual support serve as an inspiring guide for listeners seeking to navigate their own paths to healing.

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Follow JB Copeland on Instagram: @jb_copeland

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Blondest podcast. I have a new boy in the chair today. It is not Tyler, because he has no trauma, which we're all jealous of. But today we are with jb, and he has created such an amazing platform. His wife is a longtime client of mine, and I was talking to her during one of our appointments, and she was telling me all about you, and I was like, oh, my God, I have to check this out. And you are probably the coolest person I've ever followed on Instagram. You really are.

[A]

I really appreciate it.

[B]

I love your videos. They are truly, like, something that has been so big for me this year is my healing journey and something that I pushed away for a lot of time because, you know, when you go down that rabbit hole, I feel like it just opens up so many things that you want to suppress.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And for the longest time, like, oh, no. If I just keep myself busy and I keep working, like, I'm going to build this business that I'm building. But what I learned, and I've talked about a million times on Instagram and my podcast is it doesn't go away. It just grows. And then I hit that point where, you know, after six years of just working 24 7, pushing away all this trauma that I didn't work through, it just boils up to a head, and it's just, like, bigger than it was if you had just chipped away at it little by little over the past six years. So it was really interesting and really amazing to hear. Hear some of your journey and hear about, you know, how you heal and all that. But I talk every day, so I want you to introduce yourself and tell our followers a little bit about you and your story and how you got into this.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm jb. First off, thank you so much for having me on. I mean, I'm a huge fan of yours because Chloe has talked about you forever. I mean, like, the last, what, four years? And so, like. I mean, it's. It's been.

[B]

I.

[A]

Like, she's like. She's so huge in this. In the. The face skin. What do you do?

[B]

Skincare. Yeah, skincare.

[A]

Skincare. I'm a guy, so, like, maybe I should be more.

[B]

No, your skin looks great. I'm actually looking at. I'm like, you actually have really good skin.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

So you steal some of her stuff.

[A]

Maybe that's what it is. I mean, I actually don't put anything on my skin.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, well, that's crazy. Maybe you know more than I do.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's. I don't know.

[B]

Men are just special. I swear, it's so annoying. Like, they can do nothing and look better than us. So it's fine.

[A]

But, yeah, thank you for having me on. And I'm so excited to dive into whatever. I'm down to talk about whatever.

[B]

Okay, so tell us kind of how you got into this. So I know you were a youth pastor.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Correct. Okay.

[A]

I don't like talking about it, but let's talk about it.

[B]

Okay. Oh, my gosh. I'm like, yeah, we should talk about what not to talk about before.

[A]

Let's talk about that.

[B]

Okay. Jump in. Tell us anything. I cuss on here all the time. I say everything. So you're good. We're not like pieces.

[A]

Me, too. Okay, cool. Were you raised in a Christian home?

[B]

I was. Okay.

[A]

I was. So my dad was a pastor. Um. And, yeah, pastor's kid. He was my. My coach. He's also obviously my father. We moved around. We were in. I was born in Shreveport, Louisiana, and then we moved to Arizona for three years, and then we were in Texas starting at the age of nine. And, you know, just grew up in church and, you know, as a kid, you don't really know. Yeah, it's just like. That's just what it is. Like, this is who God is. This is what I believe. This is what my parents believe. They're right. And so. Yeah. I mean, I could go down a deep rabbit hole. I mean, I'm usually. That's kind of how this all.

[B]

I love rabbit holes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So my favorite thing ever.

[A]

So you mentioned, like, a pastor, and so I don't think I ever really, truly, deep down, wanted to be that.

[B]

It was just kind of felt like you had to.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. In a weird way, it's so funny. I was just to, like, go off of that. I was talking to this guy a couple weeks ago. I'm not gonna say his name, but his dad was. He jumped out of airplanes. What are they called? Paratroopers. And, you know, he has a lot of issues with his father. And I was like, well, what do you do? And he was like, well, I sell equipment to the army for paratroopers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like this very subconscious thing, especially with a man, and I don't. And I'm not a woman, so I don't know, but maybe even with women. But for. For men, when it comes to fathers, we. We really look up to them at a very, very, very deep level. Even if the relationship is skewed or there is, you know, trauma there. And there definitely was with you and I. You know, I was the firstborn. I'm the oldest of two or three brothers and have two little brothers. And so, you know, it's their first time parenting and. And them trying to figure it out. And so, yeah, I was a. I was a football player. And so I played. I played football. Went on scholarship to North Carolina, which is why I love Carolina Blue.

[B]

I love that. It's a good color.

[A]

Yeah. Was there. And then too many concussions. Retired my junior year. And then really didn't know what to do.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And you know what? Also was not in a really good frame of mind. Just with myself and not knowing who I was and not knowing how to deal with.

[B]

I'm sure, because football was probably your.

[A]

Whole life, you know, that was the work, work, work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then when it all came crumbling.

[B]

Down, I can relate to that with dance. When I quit dance, that's when my depression got the worst. Cause I was like, you know, if you ask me, who's Savannah? My whole adolescent years, you know, from age 3 up to 18, I would have said, savannah's a dancer. You know, And I feel like when you lose that, you're like, oh, fuck, who am I?

[A]

Who the hell am I? Yeah, so it was. It was a bit like that. I also was a bit of a. A drug addict. And so, like, I had failed out of a scholarship. I'd failed three drug tests. It was just weed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not that big of a deal. I mean, they actually.

[B]

I double in the weed.

[A]

Yeah, me too. I love marijuana.

[B]

My girls know that.

[A]

Yeah. But they. It's actually legalized in the NCAA now, so I was like, what the hell? It's like the only thing that's helping my concussions. But, yeah, I definitely knew better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And made a mistake. And we actually made three mistakes. I failed three times. You know what?

[B]

It's hard to stop them. Reaper.

[A]

And so, you know, with that and just being like, well, shit, like, I'm no longer a football player.

[B]

I just.

[A]

It's my senior year. I have one semester left, and I'm not on scholarship anymore. I ended up finishing out and graduating somehow. I don't know how, because I did not go to class.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just didn't really know who I was or what to do with life. And so, you know, in those moments of you don't know what to do and you're not really in a mind frame of. Or a place to heal. Yeah, you kind of crawl back to.

[B]

What'S comfortable or what.

[A]

You know, what you know. Exactly. And so my dad said, hey, you can come, you know, serve on the something team at the church. And I was like, all right, whatever. So I came back to Dallas and within like six months and. And mind you, I'm still like a crazy and like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, vaping in the church bathrooms and like, you know, the whole, the whole nine yards. Adderall all day. Let's. I need. I need the concoction to like live like I was. I was pretty deep in addiction with Adderall, Aderall, Xanax. Really? Painkillers was like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With football, just like painkillers was. I love painkillers. Still do. But I don't, I don't take them anymore. If I do have them, I'll give them to Chloe and let her like just slowly pass me them. So I don't.

[B]

Yeah, you know your limits.

[A]

So I don't eat them all at once. So. Yeah, that's one thing I'm learning is my limits on things.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

But yeah, so within like six months, I. I was the youth pastor.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think I was a pretty cool youth pastor.

[B]

I feel like. You'd be cool. Yeah.

[A]

But like. Yeah, I don't know if they like learned anything about, you know, our Lord and Savior, but we definitely had a.

[B]

Lot of fun, you know, and sometimes that's what kids need though, you know, when they're going to church. Don't be hard on yourself. Cause I do think, you know, for me, when I had those teachers that sometimes didn't focus on teaching, but we're just like fun in there and like an escape from whatever I was dealing with at home, you know, like that makes a huge impact in kids lives.

[A]

Well, it was really fun for about two years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, you know, covet, hit and you know, we went to online church and you know, all that kind of stuff. And then the addiction got a lot worse. Like for a long time I could control it. Like I. I had control over, you know, I'm not gonna let my wife know. And like, I'm really good at hiding this because my parents are pastors. Like I've learned to live this like double life. And it was. All of it was very internal, which for me it wasn't easy to hide. I mean, secrets suck. It sucks to have secrets. But after a while, like late 2022, going into 2023, it just became very physical. Like, I started to lose a lot of weight. I mean, I weigh, like 220 pounds. I was like 170.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Like, I looked terrible. Like, I was just. I couldn't eat. Like, I was just so anxious all the time. And, like, the band aid of the substance wasn't working anymore, and. And the intention behind the substance was to numb.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so in April of 2023, I mean, I'm still, you know, the youth group is growing, I'm being celebrated, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I had, like, a massive. I thought I was dying. I thought it was a heart attack, but I had a panic attack.

[B]

Oh, wow. And that was your very first panic attack ever. Is it not the worst thing?

[A]

Literally, like, literally the worst thing in the entire world? Panic attacks.

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

Hate them.

[B]

And my worst one about, what was it? Two years ago in New York. And I literally thought I was dying. Like, and I had never. Like, I could not breathe. I was, like, throwing up. It was so bad. So bad. Would never wish that upon my worst enemy.

[A]

They give you some Ativan and it goes away. So that's good. If you have to go to the. Did you have to go to the er?

[B]

So I was in New York, thankfully, so I had a breast reduction like, a year before, and I had Diazepam. And I always just travel with it. Just have it just in case. And so I literally had to take, like, two, and I was just like a zombie. And then my assistant, thankfully, was with me, and so she, like, got me on the closest flight. I missed the entire class as I was supposed to teach that weekend. Like, it was so bad and there is nothing. Pan attacks by themselves are horrible, but being in New York City, even worse, I bet. Away from your family, your baby, your dogs, your cats, your comfort. Like, I literally was like, someone put a knife in me and just, like, end it. Like, I don't want to feel like this. Like, it was so debilitating.

[A]

I totally agree. It's like the worst feeling, and you.

[B]

Don'T get it until, you know, you actually go through it. And that's when people like, oh, you know, like, I'm anxious. I have a panic attack. Like, there's like a such a big difference because with that it is so physical.

[A]

Like, I don't know. I mean, Chloe's over there, but I mean, it was like 11pm we had just made a CPK from, like, California Pizza Kitchen. You know, the ones that you put in your. In your Oven from Target. And, like, I had literally just taken one bite out of it and I bit down.

[B]

And then, like, your tongue go numb.

[A]

Everything. Like, something just happened. Like, my eyes started twitching and I was like, what the. And. And I don't. I remember just being like, chloe, Chloe, Chloe. And I couldn't walk. Like, it was, like, extremely physical. I was like, this is insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ended up going to the er and from then on, I mean, I still deal with panic a bit, to be honest. Yeah, you deal with it once and it's like the fear of dealing with it again.

[B]

Yeah. That was me, like, the entire year after it happened. I do hypnotherapy, actually, and that was the only thing that worked.

[A]

I don't need to do that.

[B]

No, you do. Seriously. It rewired me because I was almost, like, having panic attacks. I was going to have another panic attack.

[A]

And where did you go?

[B]

I'll give you my therapist name. She's amazing. Yeah, she's over in Flower Mound. She is awesome. And I honestly thought it was, like, a bunch of. Honestly with hypnotherapy, but she is the real deal. And, like, one session of that, and I've never experienced that again.

[A]

Hypnotize the.

[B]

Out of me, right? I'm like, if it'll work, do it, please.

[A]

Because seriously, like, I'm still. Like, I know that, you know, you might see me on Instagram, and, like.

[B]

I do feel, like, different, though, and that. I hate that because people say that about me, too. Like, how could you be someone that's anxious or have anxiety when you're, you know, have this big platform and, you know, you're so public and share everything, and I'm like, I'm sharing all this. Yes. To 300,000 people, you're a bigger scale than me, but I'm in my bed, I'm at home, I'm with my family. Like, I'm not standing in front of all these people. I'm not in a social setting.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, and I think that's. I think it's also a cool thing about it. Like, the vulnerability side of saying, like, you know, we're. We're just humans, too. We're figuring life out as we go. And. Yeah, like, panic and anxiety is still something that, like, I'm learning to deal with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I've had some. Some seasons of work and. And things and business and, you know, can make things a lot more stressful.

[B]

Yeah, no, definitely.

[A]

And some seasons are different, but, yeah. Yeah. Once I had the panic Attack. I was like this. Yeah, check me into the psych ward. Yeah, I think I'm crazy. Yeah, I never want to experience that again. And so I started going to therapy because I've never been to therapy, really. It had always been, like, go to church camp or go get prayer at the front.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, let's just pray about it. And I started going to therapy, and within, like, the first couple sessions, the therapist was like, I think that, like, you need to go to rehab. And I was like, damn. You're, like, cool, and I just want.

[B]

To talk it out. And now you're trying to get me to go somewhere.

[A]

This is why I don't go to the therapist. Like, like, at that point, I was like, they're gonna send me off to, like, some, like, place that, like. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's gonna take all my money. And it's a scam, you know, that's how my head was. And they can't help me. Like, they don't know what's going on in my brain. Blah, blah, blah. And so within a couple months, I was. You know, I let the church know. Like, my dad's not the head pastor. He's. He was on the executive team. And so I kind of had to just, like, tell him, like, this is.

[B]

What I've been shot.

[A]

Yeah, I'm going to rehab. Like, I don't know what y'all want to do with me. Like, you probably want to fire me. I mean, I've never heard of a church pastor going to rehab. I know a lot of them need to go.

[B]

Did you feel like that was really hard for you to, like, admit and.

[A]

Just, like, feel weirdly enough, only to my dad? Yeah, I think that was the hardest person to admit it to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I. I tried to hide it from him for so long, but I think everyone else kind of had an inkling at that point because of how I looked and how inconsistent I was in life. But he was really good at only focusing on the good and ignoring the parts of me that. That he might have known needed attention, but he'd rather not think about that.

[B]

And just focus on the good parts of you.

[A]

Yeah. Just focus on what you know. Which. That's. That's a whole nother story in itself. But. So, yeah, I was youth pastor up until rehab, and then I went to rehab for two and a half months, and.

[B]

Okay, nice.

[A]

Was, like, the worst. The best time of my life. Yeah, probably a lot like your wilderness experience, except I was 26, and you were, what, 15 yeah, a little different. And I heard, I mean, I don't know if this is true, but I heard you were like captured out of your room.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, they literally, it's called getting gooned. Like they like abducted me and I thought I was getting sex trafficked because I was 15. This is not funny. And these know, it is funny because if you think about it, I'm like this tiny little 15 year old in bed. And you know, I'm just think I'm gonna like wake up the next day and hang out with my friends. And then these two massive people come into my room.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

One woman, one man. And they're like, you're coming with us. Your parents signed away your. And I'm like, can I give my cat a hug? They're like, there's no time. We have a fight to catch. And I'm not a fighter. Like, that's honestly probably my worst thing. But I'm glad I didn't because if you try to fight your transporters, they like put you on holding and then they like take away privileges from you before you even get there. So I'm like, I'm just gonna like play this and like win. Like, I'm very much like a winning, competitive mindset. So I'm like, fuck yeah. If I'm gonna do this, like, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna like, be the best. I'm gonna be number one and I'm gonna get out quicker than anyone else. And I think through that, like, almost like gaslighting yourself into happiness, it actually worked. And it was, it was the craziest thing. And it wasn't even what I was intending to do. I was just trying to fake it so that I could get out and get home. But it actually like changed my life. And I'm that person. And I'm sure I feel like you're the same way. There's so many people that were in wilderness with me that are not still on the earth with us today or, you know, are back into drugs or, you know, just can't hold a job, can't hold a relationship. And you know, everyone deals with trauma so differently. I've always been the type where it's like, I've already dealt with such shit in my life that I'm not going to let that be my story. I'm not going to let that be like, oh, well, you know, I had this childhood trauma, so that's why I can't have a successful marriage or that's why I can't work for myself or achieve my wildest dreams. Instead, I was like, I'm not going to be a victim. I'm not going to let those things control me. I'm going to take control of my own story and let that be that fuel, that fire inside of me that makes me better. And it's like, wow, I'm so glad I got to experience this other side of life that would never have existed if I didn't try.

[A]

Right. I completely agree with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think, I think, you know, for a lot of people, as I've not saying that, like, I have, you know, all of this knowledge and I can analyze all this stuff, but like, looking at a lot of different people in a lot of situations just from, you know, whether it be a follower that. That follows me and, or a person that I know, it's like people want. People want to heal. They really. They really want healing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But there, there's like a step that you have to take within that, which is what you just explained, which is like, there has to be some acceptance, but also some, some understanding that, like, just because these things happen to you doesn't mean that's who you are and who you have to continue to be.

[B]

It's a chapter.

[A]

And honestly, a lot of people in. In the kindest way I could say it, they use it as a cop out.

[B]

Oh, 100%. I'm glad you said that because I, I think so too. You know, people, it's like their story, it's like, oh, well, you know, I can't do this because I come from a family that has XYZ or I, you know, had this situation when I was younger or, you know, it is. It's a cop out. It's like that excuse. I always talk about this too, with business. During COVID it was like, you know, a lot of businesses bloomed during COVID Mine was one of them because I'm a fighter. And I was like, I'm not gonna let this time knock my business down. I was only about a year into business and, you know, the people that. I do think there are situations for sure, but before anyone comes for me that like, you know, make it impossible to survive during COVID but for a lot of people, and I've had so many clinics tell me this, like, it was kind of like, okay, well, Covid happened, so I can make that the excuse. I already had a business that wasn't doing great. And so Covid was the reason that they were like, okay, I'm just going to shut it down, you know, instead of trying to fight against that resistance. So, yeah, people like to find something.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that that's where the hiccup is in a lot of people's lives is, you know, there's a quote by Denzel Washington and it's from the Equalizer. It's. I heard it in a movie. I think it's the Equalizer too. Have you seen the Equalizer?

[B]

Never.

[A]

If you like watching Denzel Washington, just kill. It's the best movie ever.

[B]

Sounds like Lance would love that.

[A]

It's so good. But he says, he said if you pray for the rain, you're gonna have to deal with the mud. And I think a lot of people. And this is just tying back to what you're saying. I think a lot of people pray for change in their life and they pray for the rain and they pray for change and God gives them mud. God Covid happens panic attacks that you can't control. You have to go to rehab.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And people look at it and face it and say, I don't want to fight that. I'm done. I'm just going to be my victim self. I'm just going to live in shame. I'm just not going to ever face it. And then they lived their whole life mad at God that he didn't answer their prayers when their prayer was the rough seas in front of them. And I think it's just. I think that's been the one thing that I've learned even through the last two years because I only got out of rehab, what, a little bit over two years ago. But what I've realized and like is yeah, there's some seasons and some things in life that happen that suck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That put you in make or break situations that make you feel helpless or hopeless, that make you feel scared or, you know, panic levels are higher. But when you ride them out and, and you have a foundation of understanding that you're going to get through it and that you were built to get through it and that you're not a victim and that you have self choice and that you have the ability to not be controlled.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like you have, you have self control and, and make your own choices and you come out on the other side of that. You realize that that bleak winter that you went to through was actually what brought you this beautiful summer.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And that's the. I think that's the duality of. Of healing in life is although rehab sucked really bad. Although I'm sure CO sucked really bad for your business.

[B]

It's like, it was actually great, honestly.

[A]

But it was scary at first, you know?

[B]

Yeah, I know it was at first.

[A]

It's like, when you look at it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For me, like, for rehab, it's like this. I'm in Waxahachie, Texas, with 20 dudes that I don't know, and they took my phone and, you know, what am I.

[B]

How was that experience for you?

[A]

I look back and, like, I can. All I can do is, like, laugh.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I mean, did you take it serious, like, when you first went, are we kind of like, I'm a lot like you. Yeah.

[A]

So, like, I tore my acl, my senior high school. And, like, I was like, I'm going to have the fastest recovery of all time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before I get. I'm. I'm going to play college ball. And, like, I might.

[B]

You're competitive.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Very same. And so, like, I'll never play a board game with you.

[A]

So with that, it's like, I was like, okay, I'm here now. I. I don't know if Chloe's gonna leave me or not. Like, my parents for sure hate me. Like, my brothers think I'm an idiot. And there's, like, four horses here, and we're living in this mansion. There's all these different dudes from all these different walks of life. It's so funny. I mean, we had, like. Like, an email kid from that was 18 years old to a train engineer that was, like, 50. And you get all of these, like, characters into this one room, and we're all there for the same reason. And it's either because we can't stop drinking or we can't stop taking drugs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the first month was hell. Like, just hell, because I was facing number one. I didn't have. I didn't have, like, my band aid anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Although it had not worked for, like, the last couple months, like, the drugs. And so I started facing this, like, blender of pain. And I'm sure that you went through this when. In your wilderness experience, but you're like, I feel like. And, like, I'm so scared, and I don't know what's happening to me, and I'm breaking. And I don't know what this is from. It's like, all of life's trials and tribulations or traumas or things that you've been through or, like, actions and things that have happened as a kid, and you don't even know what it is.

[B]

And that's the crazy thing. It's like, then, like, all of these suppressed memories when you go through your healing journey, you're like, oh, my God, did this happen? Or is this, like a weird dream?

[A]

Yeah, like, oh, shit, my dad's a dick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I still love him, but, like, he was a dick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, oh, my gosh, my mom.

[B]

My mom.

[A]

You know, my mom. My mom was just so fearful, like, and really. And so. Or my coaches, like, why did I listen to those dumb asses? Like, why did I. Why did I let that affect my identity? Yeah. Like, and so you start to realize the root of your wounds. And for me, it was just inadequacy. I just. I just didn't feel good enough.

[B]

That's crazy. That's what mine was, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Just always trying to, like, prove myself. And there's just so much. My mom, like, put me and my brother against each other a lot growing up because. And again, you know, I loved what you said earlier. It was their first time living, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just sucks because I feel like our generation is so up because it's the first generation that actually talks about mental health. And our parents, like, it was, like, not something you talked about. Like, when I told my dad I was suicidal and depressed, he was like, you just need to pray more and eat more vegetables and walk. And I'm like, no. Like, there's an imbalance. Like, that's not going to help me, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, you know, our parents didn't get therapy, so they just had all their generational trauma, and then they just pass it on to us. And for the longest time, I hated my mom and I hated my dad for letting her treat me the way she did. But then I started to hate my grandma because I'm like, okay, it's not my mom's fault. It's my grandma's fault. And I was like, no, I don't hate my grandma. I hate my great grandmother because she's the one that started this, you know, and it took me, like, all this, like, blame game to where I'm like, you know, it's everyone's first time living, and, like, it sucks. And I finally got to a place where I'm like, you know, if my mom can at least just acknowledge that it was fucked up, like, I forgive her. I'm a very forgiving person. But, like, some sort of accountability and just acknowledging, like, hey, like, I did the best I could. I hear you. And all the things I did, I, you know, weren't good and were wrong. But I think that's the hardest part.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, this might be getting a little bit too philosophical, but, like, you talk about that, and it's like this generational trauma, or the church calls it generational curses. And you really start to, like, as you're going through the healing process and you're seeing these things, and you're like, I now see what's being passed down to me. And then you. You do start to think about, okay, well, my mom's mom and dad, and then my dad's mom and dad, and then, like. But it didn't even start with them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, where. Where did this all begin? Like, what.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

That's. That's where. That's. Yeah, I know. It's. That's where I'm just like, what are. What are we battling that's unseen and, like, what's the origin of it? And. And. And maybe that question will never be answered because, like, I don't fucking know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just know it's fear.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I know. And I know it's inadequacy, and I know it's, you know, beliefs that are not true about ourselves.

[B]

And it's so crazy how powerful the mind is to, like. That's something I think that's always set me apart from people just in my industry and just in general, like, my age, doing, you know, what we're doing is. Your mindset is so powerful. It's like what you feed yourself, what you say to yourself, I'm so big about that. And.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, keeping people around me, like. And, you know, some people might call me delusional or think, you know, I mean, I definitely have bad days, and I'm not like, you know, if my car gets hit, like, obviously I'm not going to be happy about that, and I'm not going to be all like, there's a bigger purpose in my car getting hit, you know, But I definitely do think, you know, what you speak to yourself, the words you say, the music you listen to, like, the things you watch, the people you're around, like, it is subconsciously changing who you are at your core. And I'm very conscious about that because I cannot have, like, I've been in the darkest season of my life, you know, where I didn't want to live, and I never want to get back to that place. So I'm very much, you know, try to focus on the good and just try to, you know, keep myself away from anything that's going to, you know, bring out negative.

[A]

Do you Think that. Do you think that you'll ever be called back into the negative to. To bring light to it?

[B]

That just happened to me the last six months.

[A]

Yeah, I want to hear about that now I'm interviewing you. But I just thought.

[B]

You mean. Yeah, I think, you know, with my parents, you know, I had a really rough childhood, and people. It's. It's so hard because it wasn't like I was like, well, not from my parents. I did go through sexual abuse as a kid, but, you know, I had a roof over my head. My parents were middle class. Like, you know, I had a good childhood. And I. I get it. You know, it's. It's hard to say, you know, I wasn't like, starving or anything, but, you know, my mom was very competitive with me. And, you know, for a very long time, I was her pride and joy. And it really clicked for me one day, couple like six months ago, and I just, like, it. Everything started crumbling down, like, my whole identity, everything. But basically, growing up, you know, I was a dancer, and I was my mom's pride and joy. Every practice she was there. She was stay at home mom, she was there for me. She pushed me hard. I mean, I had a lot of, like, anorexia and stuff later on. But I don't blame her for it because that's kind of how the dance world was, you know, in any kind of sport, even with boys. Like, you're trying to get meat those calories, like, your parents literally are treating you like a professional athlete when you're like, six years old.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's a lot of pressure. And so I don't blame her for that at all. I mean, every parent was doing it, and I wouldn't have been as good as I was if she didn't push me to that level. And then I started my period and I got boobs, and it was like this light switch, you know, from where I was like this pride and joy, and I was her everything. And she was so supportive, would buy me anything I wanted to. You can't look better than me. You can't be better than me. And, you know, just complete switch, you know, and that's hard to deal with when your mom. You grow up and your mom's your best friend, she's your biggest supporter, and all of a sudden now you're competing with her. And that for me, shaped me in so many ways, you know, like, I had to hurt my best friend. Yeah, I lost my best friend. I lost that person. You know, we'd have good Times, it wasn't always bad, but there was, like, this deep insecurity that she had that she passed down to me and wanted me to not be as thin as her or, you know, look as good as her. And it was just so fucked up. And I knew this was happening. And, you know, I think the hardest thing is, like, when you suffer and no one else is there to save you. Like, my dad saw everything that I was going through, and he just, like, let it happen. And so then I started to hate him because I'm like, you're my dad. You're supposed to protect me from all of this. Like, you're supposed to be the person to, like, put mom in her place, you know, as, like, men are supposed to do well you know, back.

[A]

Yeah. Now I get.

[B]

I put Lance in his place. Don't worry, guys. But that was really difficult for me. And, you know, then the whole wilderness thing happened, and it just got worse from there. And then I started my business, and she was so envious of that. And so, I mean, still to this day, we struggle with that. Like, I can definitely see, like, you know, she wishes she had done what I have done with my life. And I get that. And I know she gave up so much to raise us, but it's like, you know, at the end of the day, you should want more for your kids. And so we still kind of have that. And I've been going. I haven't talked to my parents. I don't even think I was gonna talk about this on this episode, but I haven't talked to them since Thanksgiving, and that's been really hard. And I want to. You know, it's just. I feel like it was a rough time around the holidays. You know, there was a lot of tension. And, you know, I have a kid now. My son is my everything, and I just want him to be in a safe, healing environment. And I feel like a lot of the stuff since he's three now, since he was born, like, I just suppressed because I wanted him to have a relationship with them.

[A]

So they are in his life. Yeah, in a way.

[B]

In a way. Well, not for the last four or five weeks, but, yeah, they have been. And, you know, I mean, it's just my parents were not there for me when I started my business. They didn't support me emotionally, financially, physically. Like, it was a really lonely time. And I knew my dad wanted to, but my mom wore the pants. Still does. Like, it's like whatever she wants is what happens.

[A]

And it sounds like, Chloe, I'm Just kidding. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

And I feel like I get some of that, too. That rubs off on me. And then I see myself treating my husband the way that my mom treated my dad growing up. And, like, it makes me resent the hell out of her because I don't want to be like that, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I. I think that's number one. I'm sorry that you went through that. No, obviously I was kidding. But Chloe's awesome and. But it's. It's. It's funny you say that and explain it like that. Obviously, like, you know, my story is not exactly the same as yours. And even my wife's story, like, I'm thinking about it as you're talking. Like, her stories is not the exact same as yours, but the themes are the same.

[B]

What was your, like, thing that you were suppressing with, like, the drugs? Did you feel. I know you mentioned inadequacy.

[A]

Yeah, I think for me it was really. I think it comes down for, as a kid, like, in growing up, it's like you want connection with your parents.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when things start to get a little, you know, even, you know, you said you and your mom started competing and, like. And like, you have to ask yourself, like, was she doing that, like, consciously? Like, is this, like. Was this, like, a reaction? Was this subconscious? Was this something, like, deep in her.

[B]

That had been like, oh, no, it's totally subconscious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She had no clue. And that's why I tried to forgive, but it just fucked me up, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So bad.

[A]

So say it's. It's the same thing just in. It was acted out for me in a different way with my dad and. And my mom. Really. For me, it was more with my dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so. And I couldn't really put my finger on it for a long time because he was, you know, God. Like, he is a pastor. He's a man of God. Like, everyone goes to my dad for help. You know, He's. Everyone loves him. Like.

[B]

So you almost felt, like, gaslit in yourself.

[A]

Yeah, that's how I felt.

[B]

I'm fucking crazy because my dad wouldn't.

[A]

Talk about my mom.

[B]

My brother wouldn't talk about my mom. And so it's like you're just going through this. It's like an alternate reality. You're like, no one else is seeing what you're being treated like or the way that you're feeling. It's lonely and it's scary. And then you think you're the problem. And I think that's Where a lot of my depression came from was, like, I thought it was me, and not until I became a mother and, you know, moved out. I, like, got this new perspective on everything, and I'm like, no. Like, that was fucked up. Like, that was wrong. And I was like, I can't believe that I even. I felt so sad for younger Savannah that she ever thought that this was her fault. It wasn't.

[A]

I know. I feel. I feel. I know. I feel the same way for little me, and I'm glad that you've come to those realizations. One thing that's really helped me lately, just dealing with my dad and, like. And I'm sure you're the same way as me. Like, yeah, I'm all for restoration.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I'm all for, like, yo, like, can we, like, figure this out, please? Like, can you, like, come, too, please? Like, can you see? Like, I don't. Like, I don't need you to get defensive. I just need, like, you to validate. Validate.

[B]

Yes. And that's hard for some parents. Look at the pride, you know? Like, they won't. Or they don't want to admit it.

[A]

Right? Because it. You know, I mean, I get defensive, too, in life. And, like. And. And it's.

[B]

It's your instinct. It's our. I think our human instinct is to be like, well, I know that was fucked up, but I did it because.

[A]

Xyz, you know, it's because they're working out of the same route of you as you, which is inadequacy. And if. And if they were to validate you in their inadequacy, then they would be saying that they're inadequate and they don't want to believe it.

[B]

No.

[A]

And so that's. That's the issue with it is you. You get. Yeah.

[B]

Did you ever feel like. With your brother is like. Because my brother. I mean, he's pretty, like, perfect. Like, you know, we both grew up with the same parents, but, like, he didn't experience what I experienced, and I think that was really lonely for me that we could, like, live under the same roof. And, like, he just had a completely different childhood, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I think me and my middle brother, we're closer. He's 26, about to be 27. I'm. I just turned 30. Me and him had a lot of the same experiences. Baby brother who's like. He's nine years younger than me and six years younger than my middle brother. He had a completely opposite experience, but he's 21 now, and, you know, I'm. We've gotten a lot closer. Me and him and my brothers were very close, but I've. I've started to watch him and. And the same things coming out in him.

[B]

Yeah, that came out in you.

[A]

Yeah, but. But their relationship was different. But that's what I'm saying. It's not about the relationship. It's about who's. Who's transmuting this. So it goes back to the person. And so Jet is his name. J E, T, T is his name. My youngest brother. And, like, yeah, he was, like. He was like an only child for, like, his whole high school. All of his high school years. We were. I was off at college or had just gotten married. Like, he was the baby of the family. He and my dad were, like, very close. And so I didn't. And I didn't really know. Like, I was almost sometimes, like, jealous of, like, damn. Like, you know, we grew up in, like, the small house, and then, like, I go to college. I go to college, and then dad gets a raise and y'all get a fucking pool. Like, damn, Jet, like, you have the setup and you have a media room. Like, you should be, like, so happy. But, like, I see it in all three of us. Inaccuracy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for me. For me, it came out, and I was, like, the. I tried to be, like, the perfect child, and it was. I. It came out in me in, like, a very people pleaser type of way. Like, I'm gonna manipulate the fuck out of the situation and, like, make sure that, like, I look good for my middle brother. He didn't give a fuck. Like, he was. He would tell him how he felt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I always thought was really cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I wish that I could do it, but, like. And he still does. And then my. My middle. My youngest brother is, like, a mixture of us both. And so. But I was. What I was gonna say is one thing that I've realized in the months of recent is, I mean, just being completely honest and vulnerable. Like, Chloe and I have. We've been on our own, like, business venture and, like, really life venture of, like, bringing something to life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, I know I have a brand online or, like, a following, but, like, that's a different thing than having a business or that's a different thing than building a life and building a home and. And bringing, you know, even thinking about bringing kids into the world and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in those moments when, like, it gets really hard or you do something and you fail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You wish you had dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or you wish you had mom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I would say multiple. Multiple times over the last probably six months. The last six months have been pretty rough. But, like. And it's one of those seasons that I talked about. It was an answer to prayers that I just had to go through. But in that season, I realized how much I needed a dad, but I also realized how much my little brothers needed a dad. And I was like, there has to be something. There has to be something in here that I'm missing. And because, like, I. I was searching externally for that. And maybe you've already come to this conclusion for yourself, but, like, if it weren't for his lack of fatherhood, then I wouldn't be the man that I am.

[B]

And where there's luck, there's growth Right. In our own selves. And we film those spaces.

[A]

Right. You know, and I can see him for who he is right now and believe that maybe if I become that man for myself that I'm. I've been yearning for, which is like, that's the only answer.

[B]

Yeah. And I'll tell you something. Having a child is so healing when you're able to, like, that. I mean, it really, like, having my son healed me in ways I didn't know I needed, which makes me want to cry. But I mean, truly, the true healing. I thought I was healed until I had my son.

[A]

And, yes, I can't wait.

[B]

It's the best. It's the best. Like, it is the best thing I've ever done.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that's the loneliness of this whole process is, like I said, people want to heal, but. But there's. There's some loneliness to it because you figure out. Yeah. You figure out that, like, no one's here to save you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's easy to say, well, God already saved me, and, like, I'm going to heaven. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about, like, right now. We're talking about, like. Like, no one is going to save you but you. And I think that. That people don't want to hear that because, like, they don't accountability, and they.

[B]

Want to put their blame on other people. It's so much easier, and it hurts, loss.

[A]

And deeper than that, they don't trust themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To heal themselves.

[B]

Yeah. I think the relationship with self is so important, and actually talked about this on the podcast recently, is we as a society, if we think about it, we wake up, we get on TikTok. Okay. Where our brains never have a piece of Quiet to be with self. And being with self is the most important thing for us humans to have. I mean, we are full of distractions. You get in the car, you put on a podcast, you're listening to music, you get to work, you're with customers all day, you're on client calls, meetings, etc. You get back in the car, put on more music, you get home, you either have a family at home, so you're mommy or being a dad, or you know, talking to your spouse, or you're putting on TV show. And then you go to bed and you wake up and you're never self aware. You're never having a conversation with yourself. And that is something. I made a huge switch in my life years ago of just whether it's driving in silence, having 30, 40 minutes in the morning just to myself, no phone, nothing, just downloading information and listening to Savannah and who I am. It has changed me. And when you think about how many people don't do that, it's scary. But then you also realize why people are the way they are. They're so disconnected with themselves. How can they? They don't have a relationship with themselves. They're searching for songs, music, artists, pop culture, all of these things that feel this huge void inside themselves. And then they just feel empty or inadequate because they're comparing themselves to other people online, but they're not fueling themselves with self. It's huge. It's a huge problem.

[A]

Huge, awful. And it's so. And it's. I think what's even worse about it is like, it's like the easiest thing to do is to not be.

[B]

It's like another type of drug, you know, it's like you're just suppressing everything by never allowing yourself to be alone. And I used to be that person growing up. Cause I knew I was so scared to be alone with my thoughts. So, you know, I'd either want to be high to go to bed or marijuana. Guys, don't worry, they're gonna be like, what kind of drugs is Savannah doing? But I did. I've talked about this before. I did go through really bad Xanax phase for like two months of my life that I'll never get back and never remember. And what got me out of it, thankfully, was the scariest thing. I woke up one day and I was looking through text and I'm like, I had this whole text thread with some random guy and I'm like, I don't know who this is. I've never met him. I'm like, where the fuck was I last night? Like, I. To this day, there's an entire day that I just don't remember what happened to me. And that was when I was like, okay, I can't. I can't do this anymore. You know, and it started with my parents, you know, didn't want to get me anxiety meds because I've always been super anxious growing up. And I was on Adderall too, so we're very similar with that. And my parents just, like, wouldn't get me medication. So I started buying it just literally for anxiety. And then it became, well, everyone's like, well, I wanted you to take like the full bar and, you know, then why don't you take two? And then I was like, oh, my God, this is so fun. Like, I don't have to feel anything. And then it just became. Thankfully, it only lasted two months, but that was a big wake up call for me. And then I was like, hey, I'm just. Can't mess with that anymore. And addiction runs really deep in my family too. And so. Yeah, but to jump back a little bit to what you said about, you know, not having that made you who you are today. If my parents thought I shit rainbows and butterflies, I would not be as successful. I would not have been a multimillionaire at 23. Like, you know, I think, honestly, yes, I'm not going to discredit myself. I'm a very fucking hard worker and I'm very savvy with business. But it pushed me to be like, well, fuck you. Like, you know what? You could have helped me and you didn't. And I'm going to make more money than you, dad, and I'm going to be success and I'm gonna have all these things that just like, lit a fire under my ass and it just propelled me. And I think with that and the passion of what I was doing, like, it was just like I was unstoppable, you know? But I really and truly, like, the biggest driving factor of my success was my parents not believing in me 100%. If they did, I really, really don't think I'd be where I am today. So I'm thankful for it. I really am. And it's shitty to say that, like, thank God my parents didn't believe in me, but thank you, mom and dad. I mean, really, it made me who I am.

[A]

And I think that's just, like, so crazy because, like, at the end of the day, like, it's true. I believe that everyone on this earth, if we are self reflective, is a teacher. And some people only teach us one class and we move on from them. But, like, there's so much to learn about you through the relationships that you have. And I think for a lot of us, those relationships are our parents or our guardians or our grandparents or whoever raised us. And so, yeah, like, I don't. I. I don't think. For me, I don't think my parents didn't believe in me. I think my parents were just so controlled by fear that they tried to control me and. And put me in this box. Yeah, we're not letting JB come out because this is who we need you to be. And so, yeah, when. When I. When I hit my breaking point in rehab, I was just like this. And there is a bit of rebellion that comes with that. And I think that's very. I think that's a very healthy thing.

[B]

I think I went through my little time that you had, but mine was way younger.

[A]

Yeah. And so there's a rebellion and an anger that comes with it. And then, as you know, you individualize and you take those steps to set those boundaries and become the person that you are. You know, doubts arise within you. You start to question yourself, like. Because I think the way that it's meant to be, if I'm being honest, is, is we're supposed to have people around us that are encouraging us and loving us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's. I'm not saying this for everyone, but I think that's what our generation is, and I think that's why our generation is so hungry, is because I think we're all living the same tragedy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a way. And I'm not saying it's a tragedy in a bad way. I think there's a happy ending. But I think that all of us, anyone that I've met, all of us have a bit of this shit in us. And our generation is just so open and there's so much information and there's so many things to help connect the dots that they didn't have before. And so really we have an opportunity to be a human race that we're supposed to be for our children and their children. And so, you know, you can call that a generational curse breaker or whatever. And.

[B]

But it's so true.

[A]

That shit's heavy. And. And so people. Some people would rather not hold that weight, stay in the box that they've been put in. It is.

[B]

It is safe and it's comfortable.

[A]

It is. But at the end of their Life.

[B]

They're going to regret it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's kind of where I was. I'm like, yeah, I hate regret.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, we're the same. We want to win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, I don't got to stay in this cycle.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Let me ask you. Do you talk to your dad now?

[A]

I love him. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

How did you guys get to that point? Was he really receptive when you came to him with everything?

[A]

I. I love him, but he doesn't have the place in my heart that I'd like him to have, if that makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

And so I think he. He really tries and, like. But I also think that he's full of sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. That's fair.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

And two things can be true. And that's one thing I hate when people are, like, black and white.

[A]

Because we live in the gray.

[B]

In the gray.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

100.

[A]

The world in this life is all in the gray. And so, like, I realize that, like, he has his own. And I think this is the most important part of the journey is the compassion piece.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it's so easy to be angry and rebellious, but there comes a time where it's like, he's a human being. I'm a human being. My mom's a human being. Your parents are human beings. It's like the way that I've been hurt, and I feel that it's the same way that they've hurt and they've felt and. And the actions that maybe that they've placed upon me, or the. Maybe the same thing. Ways that people acted to them. Like I said, the themes are the same. That's. It's just what I think trauma is. But I think you get to a place to where it's just like. Like, I love you and, like, I want you in my life, but, like, you don't have that place.

[B]

Yeah. Or power.

[A]

Yeah. You don't have that place. That's a great word to say. You don't have that power anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you take away that power from someone that's used to controlling you, sometimes they take a step back, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the relationship was only based on them controlling you, and now there's nothing left to control. So how do I connect?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do we even have a relationship?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're not going to listen to me and you're not going to, you know, read this scripture, like, I'm telling you what to do, like. And so. But I think that that's what a Part of growing up is like, hey, dad, I can make my own decisions. And so I don't know what a parent is supposed to look like now with me being 30 and them in their late 50s. What are they supposed to be to me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A support system. Right. Like a friend. I have that in my mom.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And she's grown so much and like, she has done what you said. Yeah. And it's been, I mean, for me and Chloe, both like. And so being able to have that really tight, honest, fuck around relationship with her. And I didn't have that as a kid because she was a pastor's wife, but with. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying is like, I just. I just have found some compassion for my parents and I think I found some compassion for my grandparents and like, whatever. Because at the end of the day, we're all just little kids at heart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we've all been hurt.

[B]

And it's all our first time living.

[A]

Yeah, it's all our first time living.

[B]

I know I need to text my mom back. I'm sure she'll hear this. But it's. It wasn't intended. It was just like around the holidays, I'm building a house and a Met Spa right now. And so I was like, I'm just like not going to do Christmas this year because I had some. There's just some family drama which I won't get into because that's like a whole podcast. But anyway. And then one day turned into three and then I was like, well, fuck, now it's gonna be like when we talk, it's gonna be like a whole conversation. It's gonna be like a deep thing where it's like, wait.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now that it's been four weeks, I'm like, I just don't. I think I keep putting it off. Cause I'm like, I don't have the mental capacity because now it's like a thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's not that deep. It's just like I needed some space and now it's like been five weeks. So now it's like gonna be like a whole. Like I've never not gone this well, I guess. Wilderness. But other than wilderness, I haven't gone this long. So I'm just need life to calm down. I wish I could just talk, to be like we're cool and like, yeah, let's not have a big conversation.

[A]

Just send her an audio message.

[B]

I don't have the mental capacity. And that's what I know. It's going to be. And so I think that's. I don't want my followers to go. There's, like, this whole t. There is, but there isn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so I want to talk to you while we're wrapping up the end. Tell me about. So we talked about rehab. You get out. I want to hear how you started this platform, what you're doing now where everyone can just kind of dive me into, like, how this started for you. I mean, it's amazing. And, like, no offense at all, but, like, I have clients. I'll come in, like, oh, yeah, like, my husband or my boyfriend, like, has a social media and, like, dah, dah, dah. And, like, you pull it up and it's like, oh, they have. That's so cute. They have, like, you know, 12,000 followers. I was like, she said that I've never, you know, obviously met you before. I'm like, oh, my God. He, like, has a million followers. I'm like, that is insane. And you did it so quick, too, which I think is just so inspiring and, like, your mission and what you're putting out there. Like, the other night, Lance, my husband, and I, we were eating dinner at the table, and we were just listening to some of your videos about healing. And, you know, he started following you, and he loves it because he also came from a family that kind of just didn't talk about feelings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. And I'm a big talker about feelings. I always have been. And so he's, you know, as his wife, he's like, I don't know how to relate to that because I didn't come from that. So in some ways, you're helping our marriage with him, like, kind of learning about it's okay to feel. And you don't have to be like this in this strong, masculine of, like, no feelings and nothing there, because it really just hardens you. And then you just oppress and it causes anger and, you know, outburst and all of that. So. Yeah.

[A]

Anyways, enough about me was not always like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, I was an angry, angry football player. Got into way too many fights and got sued one too many times. And so, like, it took a lot of rehab is, like, really broke me.

[B]

And, like, you went in thinking you could kind of, like, cheat the system, but then you actually really found.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Healing.

[A]

I found me, like, for the first time. Like, and now that's the other crazy part. And I know we're wrapping up, but.

[B]

Like, no, no, you're good. Honestly, as Long as you're good. We're good.

[A]

Oh, I'm good. But I think one of the craziest parts for me is, like, Chloe knew me. We met right after I retired. So this is like, 2000 football. Football, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right after football retiring. So that was, like, 2017, going into 2017. And I never knew myself. Like, I mean, I knew. Like, I had moments of myself and, like. But I was living this, like, double life. And then we got married. Like, we got married. It's almost been five years, so for three years of our marriage, like, you know, I'm a huge douche, you know, And I'm a pastor and, like. But I'm lying to my wife. And so it was like, almost like we. I didn't know me. And then I met me in rehab, which I know it sounds weird to say, but, like, I didn't know me. Like, I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know who I was.

[B]

And that's the scariest thing.

[A]

But then Chloe got to kind of meet me for the first time.

[B]

Would you say she's sitting over here? Would you say he's a different person than when he first met him? Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I was a chameleon. Yeah.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Which I'm so thankful for, because she's the one that got me into rehab.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, it was her telling me, like, you better fucking go. Yeah, like, because. But I think it's because she saw. She saw value in me that I couldn't see because of the filter of inadequacy that I had over me. And so. And it. It still reigns true today, like, in our marriage or in decision making, Like, I can still be a little inadequate little bitch and. And not believe in myself. And that's Chloe's voice to me is. It's always, do you understand, like, your value? Like, do you understand what you can bring to the table? Like, and so she's helped me so much with, like, getting to know me and being able to accept me. That's been a huge part of our relationship. And so I think that's, like, after rehab, I kind of just, like, took, like, six months to chill. I got out in August of 2023, and then in March of 2024. What was this? 2024? No, March of 2023. I can't remember. March. March of 2023. So I got out of rehab in 2022. March of 2023. I was like, I feel like I have something to say. Like, people are gonna probably think I'm Weird. Like. Like, I don't know how to use a camera. I don't know how to edit.

[B]

Was this your personal Instagram page at the time?

[A]

Yeah. And it had, like, you know, 3, 000 followers, and, like, people knew me from playing football at North Carolina, and, like, all my high school friends followed me, and so, like, scary. Yeah, it's like. And then Mel Robbins, I don't know if you know who Mel. She, like, there was a post that she made right when I started, and she was like, your Instagram is not for your friends and family. It's for the people that you're trying to reach. And so I was like, all right. So I got a camera, and I learned how to use a camera, and I learned to edit. And In May of 2023, I made my first post.

[B]

Like, a legit camera. You're not using an iPhone?

[A]

No, I have a. I have, like, a. It's called a Sony FX3.

[B]

I'm gonna get that info later. Yeah, your quality is amazing.

[A]

Well, it has to do with lighting. I can help with this if you ever need help. But lighting and color grade, those are all things that, like, I've had to learn on the fly and. And then editing and, you know, the music and the feel and the ambiance. And like, you.

[B]

You.

[A]

You just start to build something as you gain the skills to do it. And so, yeah, by.

[B]

Tell me about this first video, though. So you post this first video, and what is. Is it your story with addiction? What is it about?

[A]

It was. Yeah, it was just, like. I don't know, like, a quick thing on anxiety or addiction or something like that. I can't remember what it was. But, like, really, I had the. In my head, I had. I had a plan on how to grow it. And I was like, this is just gonna take consistency. So I'm gonna post, like, five times a week and just, like, ball on them and just, like, go.

[B]

And you're competitive. So it's like, you know, when we have some personalities, like us, like, and that's the thing about having an addictive personality, is, like, sometimes you can put that towards something so good for you.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know, and it's like, you can be like, hey, yes, I have this, but how can I, like, make it a good thing? Which I think, too. And you might get this. Especially, like, as he keeps going, chloe's gonna get this, too. Like, you don't stop. And then they're like, hey, you've done enough today. You can, like, you're good enough. And I think that's kind of what I've struggled with as of recently is like, you know, it's like, never enough. You know, you're never doing enough in clinic. You're never doing enough for your team. You're never a good enough mom. You're never a good enough, you know, boss, whatever it is. And so that's something for heavy. You know, it's like. It almost switches to, like, you don't feel good about yourself at the core, but then it's like, what you produce is how I loved myself, you know? And that was this last six months. What I've been healing through is, like, you know, yes, I've grown this amazing business, but it was all because of this really deep wound of, like, I'm not good enough. My parents said I'm gonna be, you know, this. You know, make $30,000 a year and live on their couch and be nothing. Cause I dropped out of nursing school, you know, so I'm like, I have to prove this wrong. And it's like you get so addicted to proving this point and just being amazing and being, like, number one and all of that, that it just becomes an addiction. And then, you know, it takes over your life and your relationships, and then.

[A]

You get there and you hit the.

[B]

And it's never enough.

[A]

Yeah. And then. And then the question becomes.

[B]

What'S next?

[A]

Yeah, number one. What? Like, what do I need to do to make this feeling go away? But really, it's just, like, damn. Like, I just need to, like, love me.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, this is fucking cool, what we built. Like, why am I. You know, like, it's cool. Like, and I. And I have a hard time seeing that. Like, you know, I'm. I'm imposter syndrome. Yeah. I'm my biggest critic. And did I say that right? Like, are people going to understand that? Like, you know, and. And. But I think. Okay. So I started posting, and then a video, like, popped off in, like, July.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I was just.

[B]

2023.

[A]

2023. Then I was at, like, 20,000 followers. And then by December, I was at 200,000 followers.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And then. And. And then. So really, within a year, this last 2024, I grew, like, 1.2.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And probably one of the.

[B]

Congratulations. First of all, like, that. I hope you know how huge that is.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

As someone who's been doing this for six years. Yeah. I think I'm just too niche.

[A]

No, I think. I mean, I think what you do is awesome.

[B]

Maybe it's because I've posted my feet.

[A]

No. But all I can say is that like that didn't fulfill any hole. No.

[B]

No. And so you're helping others. I am just so huge.

[A]

Yeah. But there, there also is, there's a hole to be filled, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And that's kind of where I'm at in my life right now. Of like, I think it's. I think it's cool to like think you're cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I think kind of like maybe for a long time it's just like way easier to like, you know, just berate yourself in your head.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like I just have parents that.

[B]

Are like, you know, don't over talk about your accomplishments.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Be brat. You know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had parents that minimized everything. Right. Like be humble or like, you know, if you got a good grade on a test, it was like, that's an expectation. I'm not gonna. Why would I say congratulations when I expected that from you? And so I think we go. You know, growing up with that kind of parenting, you know, you just never celebrate yourself.

[A]

You don't. And you don't. And you don't step back and look and, and realize holistically. Sorry.

[B]

Holistically.

[A]

That all the time, like with not only like even with you, like your, your brand and what you've grown and your business and your family and the. You're dealing with with your parents and like, like look how far that you've come. And I think we, we can get. For me, like I can get very, you know, zoomed into just one subject. But like when I really look back and in 2024 was like a year full of like, if I'm going to be honest with you, I'm still, there's still some shit that I'm like trying to cut off that is connected to 2024. That is, you know, not good. That even when it comes to like business and things like that and just like a lot of fuck ups.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a lot of like really hard times and a shit ton of self doubt. But at the same time, like I'm growing 101.2 million followers. Like, what the fuck? Like I was like, like depressed as fuck this summer. Like bad.

[B]

Yeah. And no one knows.

[A]

Yeah. Like, and, and so I don't know. I just, I think that like I just turned 30 and I'm like, well, Jesus was 30 when he started. Like, I need to like grow the up. Like you need to stop being a little jb. Like it's time to like. I think that there I think deep down in me, like, I can revert back to that victim mentality sometimes and that blame game, and it's just.

[B]

It's a comfort place.

[A]

It's so easy to get into it, and it's. It's easy to let that control you and let that control your attitude and let that control your outlook and your relationships. And it's like, I'm not letting that shit do that anymore. Like, I have control. And, you know, people talk about, well, we surrender and we have no control. And, like, I believe in surrender and all that, but, like, we have a lot more control than we think.

[B]

Did they teach you the whole serenity prayer in rehab?

[A]

God, grant me serenity to change the.

[B]

Things that I cannot change, the wisdom to change the things I can.

[A]

I can't remember.

[B]

And the courage to know the difference. Wait, no.

[A]

And the courage to know the difference.

[B]

Or the wisdom to know the difference. The current. I don't.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's.

[B]

It's one of those.

[A]

It's one of those. But, yeah, so there was a point.

[B]

Where I wanted that tattooed on me. I'm glad I didn't. I'm not kidding.

[A]

No, I'm so glad you didn't get it on there.

[B]

Yeah, I definitely had a little bit of that wilderness high where you're just.

[A]

I get it. See, I came out of rehab feeling the same way. Like, I'm a badass. Like, let's figure this out. I'm sober now.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But, yeah, I think it's crazy.

[B]

My weight, Tyler, on the 28th is my seven. Wait, if I went when I was 15, I'm 27. How many years? Nine.

[A]

Nine.

[B]

No, nine.

[A]

Eleven.

[B]

Eleven year anniversary.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

So when I got kidnapped, I am too.

[A]

You said seven. It was 12. I was like 11.

[B]

I don't even. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been with Lance for seven years, so. Yeah, that wouldn't work.

[A]

So 12 years, isn't that crazy?

[B]

I know.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

No, it.

[A]

Actually, yeah.

[B]

I love that. So tell me now, what. What are. What's next for you guys? Like, what is the plan? No plan. Plan.

[A]

Oh, there's like so many plans happening at once. We're just devising. It's just been a months of figuring it all out and so you have the sappy house. Yeah. So that really. That's like the main thing.

[B]

What is. Tell me what it is.

[A]

It's really hard to explain.

[B]

I'm glad you say that because I was trying to figure out. I'm like, I. I'm like, it's like a vibe. It's like, it's just. It's what it is.

[A]

Let's just say that's what it is.

[B]

Happy house. Happy house.

[A]

Sappy house is just like a vibe. That's what it is for now, but I love it.

[B]

I think it's gonna. What I'm hoping and what I kind of feel like you're gonna do is make it this community of people and hopefully have like, events and stuff so you can bring people together, do some healing stuff.

[A]

There is like 15 things that are has to do with Sappy house and the sappy brand. I have a. A coffee table book coming out. I. I like, love home.

[B]

I think that's like kind of your home, buddy.

[A]

Yeah, I am. And I think that's kind of what we based the whole brand off of. And Chloe's like a huge mastermind in the. In the midst of like, everything that. That I do even like the look, the art, the clothes, like Chloe. So, like, I'm not just some dude that just like, understands fashion.

[B]

So this is all Chloe.

[A]

All of it.

[B]

No way. Okay, you're coming.

[A]

I will say I do. I do have some. I have. I've always had some.

[B]

Like, so was this, like, pre. Were you always, like, cool dressing like this before rehab? No, this is like this new era of you.

[A]

This is just. I just.

[B]

You feel more yourself when you, like, you just feel so confident now.

[A]

Yeah, that I just wear what the hell I want to wear.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And I love hats. I have hair. People wonder. I mean, I am thinning in some places.

[B]

I got a serum for that.

[A]

Do you have serum?

[B]

I do.

[A]

I mean, I have hair. Like, but like, there's a thinning part right here.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Yeah. I don't. I don't like talking about it going low.

[B]

Everyone has hair holes.

[A]

It's okay. But yeah, there's so much coming with with Sappy Exciting, from clothing to a coffee table book, which is like, it's an art book full of quotes that like, it's really a big kids like book that they'll love to read. We worked with the tons of artists around the world to like, bring together this really awesome piece of art. The podcast Sappy Hour is excited for that. Is hitting the market here pretty soon.

[B]

Exciting.

[A]

What else? SAP University, which is. That'll be more of, like, courses and things like that, bringing in specialists and things to really help people with their mental and emotional health and spiritual health and whatever.

[B]

An amazing resource.

[A]

So there's. There's just a few Things that we're working on, but, like, just a few.

[B]

It's just a small amount.

[A]

It's just, like, teeny tiny.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's just. Yeah. It's been a lot of work, and so we're trying to. Just one thing at a time, but.

[B]

Amazing what you're doing.

[A]

I appreciate it, but we have sappy house built, and that's the best part.

[B]

Well, I love that, and I really. I love that you're a man doing this, because I think two men have such a hard time with emotions, and I think it's really inspiring. And you're gonna help heal so many, not only men, but also women, you know, that have been going through something and just feel alone.

[A]

Yeah. I love women, but, like, I'm here for the boys.

[B]

Yeah. And I think they need it the most. I mean, there's so many people that are there for women's resources, but for the, like, you know, they're always told. I mean, God, my brother deals with his own stuff. He had a pretty good childhood. But I'll never forget, like, my dad being. Don't cry. Like, you know, you only cry if you're a sissy. And, you know, like, you can't have emotions. My brother used to be such a soft kid.

[A]

Here's what I can. Yeah, here's what I can say for. For women is, like, y'all just wait on us because, like, there's a generation emotionally developed.

[B]

There's no stopping you.

[A]

Yeah. There is a group of men from the age range of 18 to 35 that they care about this shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, we're not all. I mean, I was a meathead for a long time and, like, getting in fights, but, like, there are a lot of men that are. After healing. I opened up something called Sappy Hotline, which is going to be a part of the podcast, where people call in and we have conversations.

[B]

It's gonna be amazing.

[A]

Like, 90% of the emails have been dudes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And they're just opening up. And so I think for me, like, obviously, with the clothing and the looks and the aesthetic and like. Like, I think. I think women, like, just all of it. But I think. And I. And I am here for women, and I want women to know that. But, like, I'm a dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, I know what these guys have, like, are going through, and I know the thoughts that they're having, and I know where they're at. And, like, for a lot of the time, my demographic has been heavily women, and, like, I'm. That's Great.

[B]

But, like, as the brand grows.

[A]

As the brand grows, like, it's. It's more and more men. And so I think that's why I'm here, is to help everyone. But, like, I think I'm here. I think I'm here to, like, put a fire under men's ass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And be like, you know, I think we might have been taught wrong. And like, we have a responsibility to heal for our wives, for our children, for ourselves if we're single. And I think in a world of men that. That do that in. In While at the same time women are doing it. I think women are already so in tune. There's.

[B]

I mean, it's just kind of natural.

[A]

Yeah, it's just.

[B]

It's instilled. Yes, it is from a very young age. And so, like, y'all are already soft and be with. In touch with your emotions. But men, like, with my brother, I mean, it's the opposite.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so I think, you know, when you stray away from that, it just surprises.

[A]

Yeah. It's. You're already so receptive to what I might be saying, and it's. It's taken some time to. And drill it into the prefrontal cortex of the boys that, like, we can feel too. And, like, we have the ability to still be men and we can be safe places and we can be safe for ourselves and we can be safe for others. And we're not scared of. We're not scared to feel. We're not scared to. I think that's what a true king does, is he's able to. To laugh and cry and he's able to war and he's.

[B]

At all.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think that that's for a man. I think we've just been like, we were so one dimensional that it's. It's honestly sucks.

[B]

You know, I never really thought too deep about that, but you were so right.

[A]

Yeah. And so, I mean, Chloe's taught me so much about it. Like, I mean, Chloe's. But, like, even me still. I'm still dealing with, like, you know, trying to, like. I gotta get out of that old mindset of, like, you know. You know, it's like I never learned how to feel, and now I'm learning how to feel, and it's really fucking uncomfortable.

[B]

Yeah, it's uncomfortable. Yeah.

[A]

And so. But it's also very healthy.

[B]

Six months ago, and I was like, what the fuck are these feelings? Like, I don't want. Like, I'm a boss, I'm a CEO, I'm A mom, I'm a wife. And it's like, you know, then I don't think healing's ever done. You know, that's the thing too. I think we're always going through different stages of healing and everything. There's like a point in our life where like, I'm healed, I'm good. It's just like you continue to just get better.

[A]

Yes. Completely agree with you. So, yeah.

[B]

Amazing. Okay, so he on Instagram is jb_copeland.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Amazing. Not hard to find, but thank you so much for being here. Any closing thoughts for the listeners?

[A]

Any closing thoughts?

[B]

And give us something philosophical, no pressure.

[A]

Oh yeah. Okay. There's one thing that I've been like really living by as of late and I did it in a video the other day. But it's. It's called living life with Thick skin and a Soft Heart. And I think.

[B]

Soft skin?

[A]

No, just thick skin. Well, or for you maybe with the thick skinned, soft heart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But your face can be soft, obviously.

[B]

Yeah, there we go.

[A]

But really what that is is like, it's a metaphor to say like, we have the ability to like have boundaries. We have the ability to have like self trust and self confidence to where the arrows and the words and the actions of others can't harden the purity within us. And I think for a lot of my life I was so soft skinned and like there was no. My heart was just so opened up to be hurt or to be let down. That. And I didn't trust myself that like it just hardened over time. And I think that's where a lot of people are, is they just have hardened hearts from our parents to whoever you think, like, you know, everyone. Everyone. And I think the goal is to shed those that hardness off of you. And, and that comes through some pain and that comes through, you know, learning how to dive into it and you know, processing. But I think we also can be badasses and can have some thick skin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like not take everything so personal and like not. And the only way that you do that is to have.

[B]

And you realize you just don't take it so personal. You're like, okay, you know, XYZ is saying this because there's something going on with them. It has nothing to do with you. It's production.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And you know, that's a big thing. I will say one of my favorite things about myself is that I have always kept a soft heart no matter how much shit I've gone through. Just because I feel like you connect with so many more people. And you are open and receptive. And like when you're able to share those connections with others and more good happens from being open than it does from being closed off.

[A]

And your love is never wasted. I think that that's one thing that people have a hard time hearing is they might give love, but that love is never wasted.

[B]

And our generation needs that more than ever.

[A]

Yes, love, love, peace and love. But also some sassiness and some badass. I think we need that, too. And people that aren't. Yeah. And boundaries.

[B]

We love boundaries.

[A]

And so, yeah, that's what I'll leave you. Leaves your following with.

[B]

Thank you so much for coming. You are amazing. I'm sure we'll get many requests to have you back, but thank you, besties. We'll see you next Monday.