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- [00:00]
Kate
Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot crispy.
- [00:03]
Charlie
Fries right as they're being scooped into the carton? And time just stands still. Welcome, everyone, to the bookcase with Kate and Charlie. As I think everyone knows, it is the official podcast of the National Hockey League.
- [00:33]
Chris Chibnall
Oh, yeah, the hockey League is it. All right, then. Go NHL. Go hockey players. As you can tell, hockey and book podcast is closely related.
- [00:43]
Charlie
Well, it's also the official podcast of Betty Crocker's take mixes.
- [00:46]
Chris Chibnall
I don't think we're allowed to just throw. I know we're very much alternate facting everything about the bookcase. Hello and happy Thursday. We've spent a lot of time together lately, my father and I. We just came back from an international trip, and you would think we would be sick of spending time together. And yet here we are doing another bookcase. And we are very happy to be here. And we're happy to welcome you back or for the first time and welcome all those new NHL players.
- [01:14]
Charlie
Well, just in case. Just in case people at the National Hockey League are thinking of suing us or at Betty Crocker's cake mixes. I made both of those up. But as far as I know, the National Hockey League doesn't have an official podcast.
- [01:27]
Chris Chibnall
It probably. Oh, God, you are throwing all sorts of. I was not prepared for any of this. I can say things I know about hockey. There's a puck, there's a Zamboni. I could pronounce about half the hockey players names because there's very few vowels in them. And I know that there is a penalty box. And I have seen slap shot with Paul Newman there. You've just reached the end of my NHL education, so, you know, the NHL is dying for us to become their official podcast because I know so much about hockey.
- [01:58]
Kate
So.
- [01:58]
Charlie
Kate, it's been a long. It's been a long time since we had a mystery.
- [02:04]
Chris Chibnall
Yes, it has.
- [02:05]
Charlie
And I don't think anybody should be going on vacation this summer without at least one mystery in their pocket.
- [02:12]
Chris Chibnall
No. And I think this is one that's a great read. I read this in 36 hours, which is amazing considering that we were on an international vacation and there was so much to see. I still read this in 36 hours. And I'll tell you the first thing that got me to order the book. Cause I order all of the books for us and book the authors. And the person just wrote me and said, from the creator of Broadchurch. And I don't think I made it any further than that line. And I thought to myself. Oh, my gosh. Now, if you haven't watched Broadchurch, it's a terrific British mystery series which I'm sure you can find on some streaming service near you. But it was my first introduction to Olivia Colman. It also starred David Tennant and it involved a whole town in the mystery. It was a brutal murder and everybody in the town is sort of a suspect and it's got great human drama and fantastic tension. And I thought, ooh, okay, well, if the guy who's created Broadchurch has written a mystery, then we've got to read it. It's called Death at the White Hart and I think it's. Again, I read it in 36 hours. It's so much fun to read.
- [03:14]
Charlie
Well, Chris Chibnall is the man behind Broadchurch and he also has now written, as Kate says, his first novel, Death at the White Hart. So it's both a terrific book, which Kate read in 36 minutes, and also he's an interesting fellow himself. And it's also fascinating to talk to him about the differences between writing for screenplays, I. E. Television series like Broadchurch, and writing a novel, something that he had to figure out himself if he could do it as he'll talk about. You know, you may feel very accomplished in one medium, but it's a little scary to take on a new medium like writing a novel.
- [03:54]
Chris Chibnall
Now, for those of you who did watch Broadchurch, and I hope there are a lot of you, this has some similar elements. Of course, it's a novel, so you get in the characters heads all the more. But it is a novel about the murder of a pub owner and everybody in the town is a suspect and you get, I don't know, almost a dozen different perspectives into this murder. And yet all of the characters are distinct, all of their voices are distinct. I found all of their stories and their hidden secrets and their addictions and their. And all of their secret thoughts. I found them fascinating and I really did wonder who the murderer was right until the last page. Plus, I get the sense Chris, which we ask him about, is starting a series which I'm looking forward to. The cop at the heart of this is an accomplished and tough woman, and I loved her as a character and I can't wait to see what he does next with her. Nicola Bridge.
- [04:46]
Charlie
Nicola Bridge is her name and she also has a young detective that she's mentoring named Harry Ward. But the interesting part about this book, to me it's obvious as you read Chris's first novel, Death at the White Hart, that He has Agatha Christie in his DNA because it is very much an old time English mystery in which, as Kate says, you meet a whole cast of characters, one of whom did it, any one of whom could. And you can take a guess as to, you know, who you think is the murderer. And you'll get an interesting reveal at the end. Death at the white arch.
- [05:18]
Chris Chibnall
It's a great jigsaw puzzle. It's like all of the characters throw different pieces at the detective and you get to put it together. So you're right, it is very Agatha Christie, but it's very much a modern book as well. It's also about the death of the pub culture in English rural life. There's also some of that in there. So, again, 36 hour read.
- [05:35]
Charlie
Oh, hours. Oh, hours. Oh, I thought you said minutes.
- [05:38]
Chris Chibnall
It is amazing that the NHL hasn't lined up to sponsor us. We can tell the difference between minutes and hours. We're batting the thousand here. Anyway, our conversation with Chris Chibnall. Chris, it is such a pleasure to have you in the bookcase. The first question I want to ask is, I've read about your career. You did well with playwriting. You conquered the world of tv. You're a household name in tv. So you decided, I really wanna make the big money, and that means I wanna write a novel. So was a novel always the goal or were you just trying to rake in the big bucks?
- [06:18]
Kate
It's not about the big bucks. You're correct. You have amazing intuition there. Well, I mean, definitely, I'd always wanted to do a novel. It's like being a proper writer. Okay? You've got nothing. There's no filter between me and you as a reader. You know, it's my job just with those soul tools to put that story and those characters into your head and make you delighted and make you thrilled and make you turn the page. But I mean, the joy of screenwriting and playwriting is it's a team endeavor. And the collaboration, you get through that and, you know, well, about that is the, the. The greatness of other people around you. Incredible actors, directors, set designers, editors. But what I really wanted was to try something I hadn't done actually, after having a, you know, and it's been a really exciting career so far. And then I was like, okay, what are the. What are the mountains still to be conquered or stumbled up? I would say, you know, what made.
- [07:18]
Charlie
You think, oh, yeah, I can do it? Was there a moment that you thought, oh, yeah, this is going well enough that maybe I can do this? Maybe I've got some game.
- [07:28]
Kate
Yeah, listen. Well, I don't know about I've got some game, but there's definitely that. I think it's the key question there, Charlie, is exactly where do you get the confidence as a writer to actually go, yeah, I'm gonna show this to people. I'm gonna. Or I'm gonna put this on in front of people. I'm gonna let somebody film that. I think it's. I mean, with this. I tried sample chapters just for myself. So I squirreled myself away and I wrote some chapters and then showed it to my literary agents who said, oh, you know, and then. And then it went out to publishers. But I was. I very much put myself in the position of I wrote it on spec first. I didn't have a commission. I wanted to do it. So to find out whether I could do it to your point, and then also whether I'd enjoy doing it compared to other forms of writing, and then whether other people would enjoy reading it and whether it would make sense and whether they would turn the pages. And so there was definitely all the stages of that. But, I mean, as a writer, you're always in that seesaw of doubt and egotistical confidence and doubt, and that's the game you've signed up for, even though you don't realize it at the start.
- [08:45]
Chris Chibnall
You know, you just quoted your literary agent and going, oh, could cover oh, so many reactions. Was that a positive O or a gee, do you don't want to write any more? TV which was the. Which magenta. The seesaw did you end up on?
- [09:01]
Kate
It has some punctuation in it. Congratulations. Yeah, no, it wasn't that. It was much more. No, she was like, let me just send this to a few publishers. I know there was a sort of a. I don't. You can't see somebody. A glint in someone's eye over email or over the phone. But I kind of felt that. And we talked about it beforehand as well. I'm thinking of doing this. This is the kind of story I want to tell. This is the genre I want to be in. But definitely sending off those first sample chapters. I was like, well, this is going to go one of two ways. And luckily, Dealpoint Kate, it went the better way. And she was like, yeah, this could be exciting. And here we are.
- [09:39]
Charlie
So when you sit down, you've done a number of screenplays, you've done so much dialogue in that way. So when you sit down and you write this, what was in your mind about what do I Have to change. Chris Gibnel about my approach in terms of writing dialogue solely in terms of a screenplay and a novel.
- [10:03]
Kate
Yeah, you were changing the currency you write in entirely, really, within. Obviously, it's still writing, but the units of currency are entirely different. Because in a way, with a screenplay, the unit is the image, the shot, and then maybe the scene, then maybe the episode or the. Or the movie or whatever. And so you're moving from that entirely to the word, the sentence, the paragraph, the chapter, the novel. And so I think the big thing for me that I loved about it and one of the reasons I wanted to do it, was the chance to be inside characters heads, to be in, to tell the story from differing perspectives. Because the novel is told as a murder mystery, it's then told from the detective's point of view, but also the perspectives of some of the suspects. So that gives you lovely. A handful of unreliable narrators, perhaps. And so the chance to tell the story through the eyes, the emotions, and the differing personalities. But the interiority of the novel was the big thing that really is the difference. Because on screen, one shot of one actor for five seconds could be a whole chapter of a novel, basically. And in a way, screenwriting and the screen as a medium deals in ambiguity. You're often going, what are they thinking? How are they gonna react? What are you doing?
- [11:32]
Chris Chibnall
I always enjoy throwing my father under the bus. So I will hear oftentimes when we're reading a book and there are lots of characters, I see my father flipping to the back and keeping a list. He goes, well, I've just gotten confused, and I just need to make sure I keep track of everybody. And when I finished your book and I gave it to him, I said, my guess is you will not have to keep a list.
- [11:53]
Charlie
Oh, there are a lot.
- [11:54]
Chris Chibnall
I mean, there's a whole cast of characters in this book. So what is the technique?
- [12:00]
Kate
Well, first of all, thank you for that, because that's thrilling, because I was. And also, there was a lot of kind of thought and discussion with my editors about what's the optimal number of characters, how many can a reader hold, and how many does it feel? Okay, that's one too many. And now they're all feeling a bit fuzzy. And I just. There feels like there is a good number. And then you go over that line, it's like, oh, I can't do it now. And I didn't want to give anybody the chance to put the book down for any reason. So that's. I take that as a huge compliment. Thank you. That's made my day. And I think it's, I mean, definitely what I've done try to do in the novel is first of all, it's about range, range of ages, range of genders, range of experiences, range of background. So, and also and range of what they're doing both in their lives and in the, and in the story as well. So hopefully you're thinking, okay, that's the person who runs that pub, that's the person who works in the hairdressers, that's the, you know it. So you, you're within it looking for clarifying signifiers, I guess so that every time you go back you go, oh yeah, that's that guy, that's that person, that's. And for me in this novel, obviously the characters range from a nine year old girl who you're not going to mistake for anyone else to, you know, people in a woman in her 60s running an Airbnb. And hopefully in all of my work I've really given rich and complex characters with multiple dimensions. So hopefully you're always back and you're always, you always know what their inherent question is that they're dealing with or their dilemma.
- [13:40]
Charlie
When I read this, I thought Chris has created a really old fashioned English mystery and that there is a little bit of Agatha Christie in every English novelist's DNA. Because you have created these characters, any one of whom could have killed the person who was murdered, any one of them has a motive to do it. And then we're gonna put them all in one small town and we're going to figure out which one of them did it. So I have this image that you were an Agatha Christie fan when you were young.
- [14:15]
Kate
Guilty as charged, Charlie. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I grew up reading Agatha Christie and I think, I mean, certainly, yeah, as an English writer working in this genre, British writer, you can't really, there's no way you would want to or can escape the shadow of Agatha Christie. And for me, I really wanted to write. It's so lovely the way you describe it because you're really like, I feel like you could be in those early meetings with me when I'm going, this is what I want to write. I want to write a novel that feels like a golden age murder mystery from the 20s or the 30s, has that structure, that feeling where there's multiple suspects, one detective. But I want it to be set now and about what our lives are like now and what life is like for people in small communities in Britain. But also, I hope it resonates with other countries and all around the world because I hope that the characters have that universality. But yes, you are. Absolutely. Nobody does it better than Agatha Christie. She created the genre in terms of those. Those Ms. Marple mysteries are really what you're pulling on there. Where, as you say, there is that small village, a group of suspects who know each other. Yeah, she's the. She's the empress.
- [15:26]
Charlie
In addition to the Agatha Christie technique of giving you a whole set of characters, any one of whom could have done it, which makes it the old fashioned English mystery. You have overlaid that with what you're so good at in television writing, in doing a police procedural book. Nicola Bridge, who is your protagonist, is your person who puts it all together in a procedural way. So you've really combined yourself with Broadchurch and Agatha Christie with her little gray matter in Hercule.
- [16:00]
Kate
Yeah, I hadn't thought of it. I hadn't broken it down like that actually. That's really. That's really smart. Thank you for telling me what I've done because it's like now I'm doing. Now, now I'm doing the second book that could be very helpful. I'm just going to write that down. Yeah, it's true and it's. Well, I think you also, I suspect the difference is, for me, it's hard to imagine a kind of consulting detective nowadays in a non police role in this kind of a case. And I know, you know, plenty of novelists do that really well, but I want it to feel really real and credible and as if you're. That it's set in communities that all of us know or have been to or know people who live there. And so, yeah, you want a detective from the police going into that, or at least I did. But then within that, what I've tried to do within this novel is go, yeah, but what is the police force like now? And it's being eroded and it's not got the same funding and authority and attitudes and even, you know, the police force in this novel, the headquarters isn't ready, they've got no wifi, they have to set up camp in a disused bank. So it's still bringing those modern things in to even that police procedural aspect of it.
- [17:18]
Chris Chibnall
How careful of a plotter are you? You said you wrote a few chapters, but this is a lot of characters and a big mystery and there are some bizarre elements to the murder. So I mean, were you looking at a big cork board with lots of yarn leading from here to there with this?
- [17:34]
Kate
Because it was the first time I tried a novel, I wrote a couple of chapters first. And I started with the, the opening chapter because that was what got me into the story was just this image of a body tied to a chair in the middle of the night on a deserted road in Dorset in southwest England. And he's found with the deer antlers tied to his head. For me, that was the image that sort of launched me into the novel. So I started with that. But then, yeah, you have to go back and go, right, who does this drag into the story? What community is this about? What are you? So you're then starting to ask the questions. So. So which characters would this victim come into contact with? Where does he live? What does he do as a job? Oh, okay, he runs a pub. Okay, he's gonna know everyone. So you sort of, you're starting with those dominoes and knocking it down. But. And to answer your question, yeah, I have three double sided, six foot by three foot, six foot by four foot whiteboards in my office, which I'm flipping around. And you're right, I've got grids, I've got character biogs, I've got plot points, I've things that might be cool to happen later. So you just start amassing and then you start parceling out.
- [18:46]
Charlie
So you start with this village in Dorset, Fleetcombe. You give us a whole cast of characters in the town, all of whom could have murdered the pub owner. And as Kate points out, you make them all very distinct. Did you know when you started which one of these people was going to be the murderer? Or did you think, well, I could have him do it, I could have her do it, I could have him do it. Or did you know from the beginning which person, which character in the town of Fleetcomb was going to be the murderer?
- [19:17]
Kate
It's interesting when you ask about the beginning and it's like, where is the beginning when you're writing anything? Is such an interesting question because is it like in the first chapter or is it when those characters first appear? I, when I was constructing it, I wanted to ensure that I felt that. And hopefully the reader feels like everybody who I'm putting into the line as a suspect could have done it and has good reasons to do it. I definitely had my favorite and who I thought was the most likely. But I had an experience when I was writing my TV show Broadchurch, which was another murder mystery. I wrote the first draft of the first episode. I was so certain of who it was and everything was structured around that. And then about two Weeks after having written that first draft, I woke up one morning in bed. Like, I sat up like a cartoon character does, you know, like doing. And I woke up with this idea in my head. I was like, oh, no, it has to be that character instead.
- [20:17]
Chris Chibnall
I gotta know if there are bradshurch fans listening. I don't wanna give anything away. If you haven't watched bradshurch, watch it. When you sat up that morning and you said, oh, gosh, it has to be this person. Because when I found out who the murderer was, I went, no way. I gotta see if they can pull this off. Because that was so far left field of what I was thinking. So when you woke up that morning, did you think to yourself, I wonder if I can pull this off? Or did you think to yourself, no, obviously that person must have done it?
- [20:48]
Kate
That's a really great question. I think there's definitely an aspect when you hit upon a great idea. What you're asking there, Kate, is like the center of writing. Do I think I can pull this off? And definitely with that Broadchurch reveal, yes, there was an element of that. But then it's also accompanied by the sense of, if that's the person who did this, then the seismic effect it has on so many aspects of this story, so many of the emotions, so much of what we're talking about within the show, then you kind of can't not do it. So you know, and you definitely know it's a risk. But in a way, that's what, within the boundaries of a genre, you're always wanting to take a risk. And actually, even starting a murder mystery is a risk because you're essentially going, I believe I can take you on a ride that is satisfying narratively, that you are going to be playing the game with me, but that I'm also going to give you a rich ensemble of characters who are gonna provide you with emotional engagement and keep you there. And then at the end, I'm gonna pull the tablecloth off and everything will still be standing and you will go. I think that's satisfying. You know, that's the tightrope walk you're making as a writer in this genre.
- [22:13]
Charlie
As I read this, it screams. Screams. This is the start of a series. We've got Nicola Bridge and we've got the person she's mentoring, Harry Ward, a.
- [22:24]
Chris Chibnall
Young person, surprisingly handsome.
- [22:26]
Charlie
And the little town of Fleetcomb is going to produce a lot of mysteries. And there are characters in the town that we can bring back who may have done this or that or the other so do I falsely accuse or do you stand guilty of having in mind a series of novels in Fleetcomb with Nicola Bridge as the lead detective?
- [22:50]
Kate
Let us hope, Jolie, that I never face you in court. Because so far that's two. Two charges and both guilty as charged. It is the start of a series and it will feature Nicola and, yeah, the young detective she's mentoring, Harry, also known as Westlife for his boy band good looks. And, yeah, they won't all take place within the village of Fleetcombe. I think you are also correct. And also I would be guilty as charged if Fleetcombe suddenly turned out to be the murder capital village of West Dorset. So one of the reasons I created the police force I did in the novel, which covers three counties of England, which is a lot of police forces are being merged here, is it enables me to go over Dorset and Devon and Cornwall, over quite a big landmass in the whole southwest of England, for any subsequent novels. And yes, as I sit here and as we're talking today, I am writing book two.
- [23:47]
Charlie
But Chris, you know, Louise Penny has been able to create in the little town of Three Pines, so she's been able to create more mysteries.
- [23:57]
Chris Chibnall
Well, and again, we watched Murders She Wrote when I was growing up. And I would be like, please don't let Jessica Fletcher visit. It is never a good thing to let Jessica Fletcher anywhere near you.
- [24:08]
Kate
That's so true. She's the ang. Angel of death.
- [24:10]
Charlie
Sure.
- [24:11]
Chris Chibnall
Yeah.
- [24:12]
Charlie
If you move into Three Pines, you're gonna be murdered.
- [24:16]
Chris Chibnall
It's gonna happen on the top sign. And the population number keeps ticking down. I wanted to ask you one more question. One of the backbones of this book seems to be a little bit about the death of pub culture or about the fact that it's changing. Is it dying or is it changing? And is it a death you mourn or are you looking forward to what's next?
- [24:37]
Kate
Yeah, I think you've absolutely gone to the heart of it. I mean, so many pubs are closing every week in England, and it's been such an integral part of our identity as Brits, but also they are the backbone of communities. So these villages which have only really ever had, like, one store and one pub, if those things go, then what is left for that sense of community? What is the point around which everybody gathers, things occur and conversations are had in those spaces which build that sense of community which don't happen anywhere else. And also with people you don't necessarily agree with, people you might violently disagree with or have a political opposition to. But you sit over a drink and you do it and you're still friends at the end, you're still mates and you still walk home together. Those spaces are getting rarer and are being, you know, you could argue, replaced by digital spaces where community is not the prime focus.
- [25:43]
Chris Chibnall
Chris, we really look forward to the second one. I read this in 36 hours. Couldn't put it down. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [25:51]
Charlie
On the bookcase and we'll ask you if you would to stand by for some rapid fire questions. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made fifteen dollar bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront page.
- [26:24]
Chris Chibnall
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Kate
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- [26:42]
Charlie
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- [26:45]
Kate
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- [26:47]
Charlie
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- [27:02]
Kate
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- [27:04]
Chris Chibnall
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- [27:17]
Kate
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- [27:19]
Chris Chibnall
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- [27:38]
Charlie
So the rapid fire questions for Chris Chibnall Was Agatha Christie the first mystery writer that enthralled you as a young man?
- [27:46]
Kate
She was not. She was the very first one. I realized quite recently, I was told, because it was a series of books that a lot of English kids read in the 70s when I was growing up was Enid Blyton the Famous Five and also the Secret Seven. She was kind of. She was a very quintessentially English middle class writer and her books were kind of. You would read those and then you would graduate to Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew. She was sort of. So season seven, the Famous five were a bunch of kids who would go and investigate things. So I graduated from there to Agatha Christie.
- [28:22]
Chris Chibnall
When you finished this book, did you do something to celebrate and will it become a tradition?
- [28:27]
Kate
Huh? No. I sat down and sighed a huge sigh of relief. I wish, I wish I had that thing that Stephen King writes about in Misery with the cigarette, isn't it? And the glass and the. Is it the glass of champagne? I don't have the thing. No, I don't. I wish I could. I don't ever feel that moment of celebration. But definitely when you get the hardback of a novel in your hand the first time, that is a point of celebration like no other. You don't even really get that in tv.
- [28:59]
Charlie
What's the nicest thing that somebody can say to you about a mystery that you've written? And what's the one thing that we ought to avoid saying to you as you come out with a mystery?
- [29:12]
Kate
Well, I think number one is I didn't have to write a list of all the characters. That's really great. That's about as high a praise as I could have ever hoped for. I didn't realize that until this conversation today. But I think you've hit the gold, the gold star there. I don't know, I guessed on page one and then I was just waiting. That would be the worst. That would be the worst thing.
- [29:37]
Chris Chibnall
Favorite novel detective, other than Nicola.
- [29:40]
Kate
I think I have to go for Ms. Marple because I just, I just think, I mean I love all of those novels but I also think the great thing of her being an unlikely detective and yet she knows everything and she is a character study in observation and quietness and those kind of old fashioned values.
- [30:05]
Charlie
Biggest mistake that a mystery writer can make in your mind the thing that you've had to.
- [30:10]
Kate
I think the rule of playing fair is really important that for any reader to then to have the information that on a second read you can go, oh, okay, I see. I may not have put this together as I read it the first time but if you go back you can see, you can see where the clues have been laid or the behavior is pointing you towards the resolution. So I think the thing whereby, you know, you're on an endeavor together as a writer with a reader. So it is a team sport.
- [30:47]
Charlie
And finally, Chris, I would ask you, are you like all the rest of us trying to guess when you read a mystery novel who did it?
- [30:54]
Kate
Yes, I am. And I'm always delighted if I'm incorrect. I love it when you just, you might just put the book down for a second and go, oh, well done. Well played. Bravo. We want to be fooled.
- [31:07]
Chris Chibnall
What's your clearance percentage? Like, how often are you reading?
- [31:10]
Kate
Quite low, actually. I suppose I don't really go into it. I don't need that as a reader. And I put my faith in the. Put my faith in the writer to take me on a journey. That's also bigger than that, isn't it? It's the whole experience of the whole novel. And so, yeah, no, I'm not very good at guessing on those things. But I'm also not. I'm just like, oh, I just want to stay. What I love about those, you know, a great mystery novel is I just want to stay in that world and I just want to be in it. And I'm also turning the pages and I'm thinking I'm going to be sad when this is over. So it's more, it's more those things that are bothering me at that point.
- [31:50]
Charlie
Well, Chris Chibnall, it's been a delight, a delight to talk to you. And whether you're doing a collaborative work in terms of something that will appear in television or whether you're on your own with all of the responsibility on your shoulders writing a novel, you have been extraordinarily successful at it and we wish you the best as you continue to do it.
- [32:09]
Kate
Thank you so much. It's been such a brilliant conversation. I've loved these questions. I love talking to you about it. Thank you.
- [32:20]
Chris Chibnall
We had a wonderful conversation with Chris Chibnall and I loved where we talked to him from. He was in France and you got the sense that he was in front of an old stone. It almost looked like a castle background. And he's sitting under an olive Tree Writing Book 2 in this series.
- [32:36]
Charlie
So he goes to Paris. He's very English, but he goes to Paris to write. He wrote this book, he said Death at the White Hart in Paris and he's now writing his second book there. We really appreciate his taking the time to talk to us.
- [32:47]
Chris Chibnall
Yes.
- [32:47]
Charlie
I have a book fact for you this week. We're going to talk to. This is from Evan Frisson, who is a good friend of ours, author of the Bookshop, which is a wonderful book that we featured many months ago. I take the question to you.
- [32:59]
Chris Chibnall
Yes.
- [33:00]
Charlie
Are you more likely to make an impulse buy of a book in an independent bookstore or on Amazon?
- [33:07]
Chris Chibnall
Okay, I'm going to go ahead and say in an independent bookstore. And I'M pretty sure of my answer. But of course it's a biased answer because I don't buy my books from Amazon. I really, I really don't. I hit brick and mortar stores almost exclusively for books. Now if I go to Amazon, it's because I need balloons or I need something at the last minute that I don't really want to go out for. Sorry, Jeff Bezos, but brick and mortar stores? I always plan to spend time. And I also feel confident in that answer in the sense that I haven't met that much book staff at brick and mortar stores that aren't good at what they do and aren't interested in. You know, for instance, I went to go buy Cast by Isabella Wilkerson and I remember the guy behind the counter saying, I won't let you walk out of this store without the other Isabella Wilkerson. The Warmth of Other Suns. And so I bought it. So again, maybe I'm a sucker for the brick and mortar, but I'm going to go ahead so you're more likely to make an impulse buy at a store than on Amazon?
- [33:58]
Charlie
Well, we put the question to Evan Friss and his answer was a little shorter than Katie's, but but anyway, here's his answer. Are you more likely to make an impulse buy of a book at a brick and mortar store or on Amazon?
- [34:11]
Kate
When they walk in with one book in mind, shoppers often leave with another, a phenomenon about twice as common in brick and mortar bookstores than on Amazon. And so while the Internet retailer knows who you are, where you live, and which books and electric toothbrushes you bought in the past, the neighborhood bookstore remains an influencer.
- [34:31]
Chris Chibnall
Okay, first of all, I was right. Second of all, I was right. And third of all, yes, his answer was shorter than most last names in the NHL.
- [34:43]
Charlie
Anyway, we thank Evan first for that. We thank the National Hockey League for undertaking to sponsor this podcast and we want to make you aware of the people who make the podcast possible. And then a coda from Chris Chibnall.
- [34:58]
Chris Chibnall
The Book Case with Kate and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our Executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, Arielle Chester at Good Morning America, and Josh Cohan from ABC Audio. Follow the bookcase wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to listen, rate and review. If you'd like to find any of the books mentioned in this episode, we have them linked in the episode description.
- [35:26]
Kate
I don't know where this comes from, and it's certainly not from me. But in terms of the power of reading and the power of stories, I always think of the phrase there's nobody you can't love once you know, their story is always something that guides me through the work. I'm not sure it's 100% true, but I think the power of stories to create empathy is always the big thing for me. Paradise is back.
- [35:53]
Chris Chibnall
It's finally here in a new location, Costa Rica. There will be adventure, drama and romance. All gas, no breaks. That's my vibe.
- [36:04]
Kate
Ready to find some love. But it wouldn't be paradox paradise without surprises along the way.
- [36:08]
Charlie
These kids need to learn.
- [36:10]
Kate
That's right.
- [36:10]
Chris Chibnall
Your favorite golden alums are crashing the beach.
- [36:13]
Kate
We bring in a party, baby. Bachelor in paradise premieres Monday, July 7th at 8.7Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.