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- [00:00]
Charlie Gibson
Foreigners. It's good to see you all again. I'm Charlie Gibson.
- [00:11]
Kate Gibson
I am Kate Gibson. And I wish I had the same metaphoric picture in my head. I just see a bunch of ears, but, you know, but they're well loved ears at that.
- [00:19]
Charlie Gibson
Well, you know, some writers have told us that they write with a specific image in their mind of the reader that they're trying to reach. And I remember somebody asking me, is there somebody that you have in mind when you're on Good Morning America? Somebody that you think is sort of the prototypical viewer? I don't know why they would have thought of that. I never did. But anyway.
- [00:39]
Kate Gibson
Did you. Did you have a mental picture in your head of who that person would be?
- [00:42]
Charlie Gibson
No, never, Never. I just figured, wow. Well, this is going on and on. We have Delia Ephron with us today. Delia Ephron, about two and a half years ago, I hope you remember, she was on the podcast. Of course, you probably had that right next to you right now. But anyway, she was on the podcast for having written a book called left on 10th, which was the way you turn in New York City to get to her apartment. It was intensely, intensely personal. Book about the fact that she almost died, that she had lost her husband, that she got very sick. She found new love at the age of 72 and then got a form of leukemia where she thought she was going to die. It was not a book that. That I thought you could do what she did, which was to convert it into a play.
- [01:31]
Kate Gibson
There are all sorts of courage in the world. But I have to say, if I was gonna. I would like to title this particular podcast episode Delia Ephron Profiles in Courage. This deeply personal memoir, as you say, shares. You know, there are a lot of people who write about the death of their spouse. There are a lot of people who write about their bouts with cancer. There are a lot of people who write about finding new love. She writes about all three of these things in the same memoir. Then she takes it and she does it live on Broadway. She does left on 10, the play on Broadway with Juliana Margulies and Peter Gallagher. And so to the courage to take such a deeply personal story that she's already shared with thousands of people who've read her book and just said, oh, I hope you like my story. And then she takes it and puts it on a stage again. I don't. This is a profile encouraged, it seems to me.
- [02:22]
Charlie Gibson
Well, I. First of all, we have to admit to something which is that neither one of Us have seen the play because neither one of us lives in New York anymore. And I really do want to see it. But I was so incredulous that she could make this into a play because first of all, as you just mentioned, there's so many themes in the book. Having lost her husband, having found new love, having gotten this disease, having thought she'd die, having then recovered, going through hell, as she said in the recovery. How do you get all that into an hour and 40 minute play and then be funny? Because audiences on Broadway expect it to be funny. And those subjects aren't funny necessarily. Now, it could be all romantic, but she said, no, she gets it all into the play. And so how you take something, a book like this, and adapt it for Broadway, where audiences don't want to go through a harrowing story, they want entertainment, they want to be uplifted, they want to be laughing. And I was just amazed that she did that. So it's left on 10th is on Broadway, and we wanted to talk to her about it, about making that adaptation.
- [03:27]
Kate Gibson
Yeah, I mean, and you're right, Delia Ephron is inherently funny. So, you know, there's gonna be some humor in the show. But we had talked to. We previously talked to David Koepp, who's a screenwriter who writes novels, and we talked to him about the differences between those two mediums. And so when we opened up the New York Times and we saw Juliana Margulies was being profiled because she was doing the play left on 10, Delia Ephron's memoir on Broad. We just, we thought, oh, gosh, can we get Delia back on the show to talk about what that process is like? Because what an interesting translation to take something like that and put it on the stage and project it to the back row of a Broadway theater.
- [04:05]
Charlie Gibson
Just to give you a very brief recap of the book. She lost her husband of 32 years. As I mentioned, his name was Jerry. She wrote an article about trying to get off of his phone contract, which she said was very funny. And then she gets an email from a guy who she had dated many, many, many. And they fall in love. And then as soon after they fall in love, she gets a word that she has this. This form of leukemia, which killed her sister Nora. And they thought she was gonna. She had a 20 chance of survival. She had to get a bone marrow transplant. It was the only way that she could be assured of survival. She was a hundred days in the hospital, days that she doesn't even remember in some cases. And her new husband, Peter, they got married in the hospital, stuck with her all the way through, comes into her life, and then she tells him, oh, my goodness, I'm. I may die. And he just hangs right in there with her. It's a harrowing story, and it was in that book, and now it's on Broadway. And I really want to get to New York before it closes to see it, because, as I say, I'm just fascinated by how she must have gone through the process of adapting this for two and a half years to get it under Broadway and got it on with, as you'll hear, with one of Broadway's best producers.
- [05:20]
Kate Gibson
Yeah. And she really seems to be completely dazzled by the. By the magic of doing what it is that she's done and putting it on this, which is also terrific that she's still in love with this story. And, you know, when we asked her, I don't remember if this is in the interview, but when we asked her how many times she's been, and she said, I don't know, sometimes. Sometimes there are nights where I haven't been in a while and I miss it and I have to go back. And that's just amazing. And so we couldn't resist talking to her. She's also an amazing talker.
- [05:49]
Charlie Gibson
Yep. No, it's a great story. And adapting it for Broadway, I think is sort of gutsy to do it, as I thought it was gutsy to write the book itself, which she said was cathartic. So we were anxious to get her back on the program to talk about this transition. And you're going to hear our conversation right now. The audio was not as good as we always like to have it, but it is what it is, and I think you'll find our conversation quite interesting. Delia efron, left on 10th on Broadway. Delia Ephron, it's a pleasure to have you back in the bookcase. It was our treat to Talk to you two and a half years ago when left on 10th 1st came out. And now you're the star of Broadway with the play left on 10th. So tell me, first of all, how this idea of transitioning book to play came about, and whose idea was it originally and how did you approach it in writing the play?
- [06:49]
Delia Ephron
Well, I was writing a book, and I write in different forms. You know, I write movies, and I've written fiction and nonfiction, so I always know of something, something else. And I was writing this memoir, and I'm thinking this is the most natural piece of drama in the World, that happened to me. It has everything you would need for drama. And I never written a full length play, and I just thought, God, I bet this could be that. And I started to think about it, you know, and I started to think, okay, if it's a play, is it a one woman play? You know, is it just a woman talking to the audience? And then I thought, no, no, it's a love story. So it has to be two people. It has to be a man. It has to be, in my case, a man and a woman has to be Peter and me. And then I thought, probably it needs a little bit more, but it can't be that expensive, right? I can't have seven characters in it like in a movie. So I thought, okay, maybe I'll have two more characters. And they all play all the different parts. And so it began to just hatch in my head while I was writing the memoir. And afterwards I showed the memoir to Daryl Roth, who is this marvelous theater producer. And she had produced Love Lost and what I Wore. And she said, why don't you meet Susan Stroman now? Okay? For me. I grew up on musicals, you know, I mean, I don't know music at all, but I know every musical from the 50s and 60s. I can belt them out. I have a terrible singing voice, but I used to sing them at the top of my lungs. And to get to meet Susan Stroman, I was just over the moon, right? And the odd thing is that the foe in this story is the illness leukemia. And it's aml, is a fierce form of leukemia. And I knew. Well, I didn't know, but. But Darrell told me that Susan Stroman's beloved late husband died of that disease.
- [08:43]
Charlie Gibson
Oh. Oh.
- [08:45]
Delia Ephron
So I knew. Meeting Susan Stroman, or Stroh, as everyone calls her, we just immediately connected. And I had told her ideas I had for it, and she responded to all of them. And we started meeting every few months. And I did not know what I was doing. I just want to say that I was so clueless. I said to her, do I have to have something scenes? And she was so sweet. She said to me, yes. No, she said. She said, scenes tell the actors and the director and all the people who work on this, all the, you know, the scenic person and the lighting and everything, that there's a different mood or a different time. She said, but if you don't want to have them, you don't have to have them. So of course I had scenes. But that's how completely in the dark I was. And I've written a lot of stuff, but I really was a rube about Broadway. And she just guided me. She was magnificent. And I just began to show her drafts, and they got better and better. And within two years, we had this amazing cast. Juliana Margulies and Peter Gallagher. The chemistry with those guys, if you don't have the chemistry in a romance, you know, you don't have a romance. And we have the most beautiful chemistry. And they're divine people. So it's been magical.
- [10:11]
Kate Gibson
So you start your rube, and she says, okay, go forth and write me a play. What is the process? Where do you start? What goal posts you wanted to hit from your memoir in the play.
- [10:22]
Delia Ephron
Oh, okay. That's very interesting. I knew what it was about. I knew that it was about in a larger sense. Cause we talked about this. What does somebody leave the theater with is an especially important thing, you know? And we talked about the nerve to take chances later in life. And that that is really what, thematically the play is about. Will you. Did I have the. I mean, I was terrified to start another relationship after the loss of my husband, Jerry. I just. I was so scared. And yet the romance between Peter and me was so magical. I mean, I'd written youn've Got Mail, and we fell in love over email. You know, I mean, crazy is that my Internet broke, and I wrote an article about it, and the next thing I knew, I got an email from Peter. So there was this magic in the romance, you know, But I. I was very. And. And then there was this amazing threat that four months into our relationship, I got this awful disease. And so I knew that the foe was. I knew what the enemy was. I knew who the enemy was. I knew who the hero was. It was Peter. I knew that. I knew all the beats. I had the course, right? The course was the loss of my husband, surviving that, falling, you know, my Internet breaking. Falling in love with Peter. I had the whole. I had lived the perfect drama. So I did not have any trouble with the structure.
- [11:44]
Charlie Gibson
It's a complex book in that there is. You come within inches of dying of this disease that took your sister. And it's a love story in that Peter comes into your life and sees you through this illness. So can you do all of that in a play? Cause there has to be compression, it seems to me.
- [12:06]
Delia Ephron
Well, of course there's compression. But since I know what drama is, and I know it begins with a loss, then the Internet crash, then, boom, Peter comes in. There's this wonderful love Story between us. It really is adorable. It is really. It makes me very happy to see it every night, I'll tell you. And then, you know, and then there's the. Then there's the illness, and so there's compression. But if you know how to write drama, you know where your beats are. And also, I have to tell you something, because Susan Stroman is so musical and has this, you know, directs musicals and is this amazing choreographer. And Jerry and I had tap danced. I began to find things in my life that fit with her. So there's this darling tap dancing sequence with Juliana and the shadow of Jerry that drove does in the stand. So beautiful. And so what happens in a collaboration is, you know, she brings this gorgeous stuff to it that I couldn't have even fantasized.
- [13:13]
Charlie Gibson
I know Broadway audiences want humor, and when you are inches from dying with leukemia or the form of leukemia, and I don't understand how you find humor in that.
- [13:26]
Delia Ephron
Well, I don't try to find. I mean, I can almost find humor in anything, if you want to know the truth. It's either a gift or a curse. I'm not sure what. But what I really can do as a writer, and I think it comes from a darkness in my childhood because I had very difficult parents. My parents were terrible alcoholics. Life at home for all of us was very scary. But I was a very funny kid. And I learned as a writer to move between dark and light. And if you do that, you know, you can't ever go too dark in a certain way. I have made you laugh an enormous amount by the time I get to in this place. So you are, you know, as an. As I watch these audiences, I mean, there's a lot of tear shed and then there's just joy because I survived. So. But you can't write and be frightened of tears, and you can't write and be frightened of comedy. You have to be able to just. If you can use it, use it all.
- [14:29]
Kate Gibson
Niel Williams, who's one of our favorite writers, started as a playwright. And I remember we asked him why he doesn't do it anymore. And he said, because writing a play often felt to me like a game of telephone. Like I would start out saying, I want to write a play about family trauma. And by the time it was on stage, it was like the dog sighs at midnight in a dry fire. Like he just felt like it had gone through so many people's hands that what ended up on stage wasn't exactly what he intended. That certainly doesn't Sound like what happened to you here was what you wanted was.
- [15:00]
Delia Ephron
That's the problem of collaboration. And it certainly happened to me in film. Not with the movies Nora and I did together, but in other films where I turned the script in and then I looked at the movie and what is this? You know, it was. And the reason. And from a very. From the very beginning of my career, I thought, write books because I have my stories to tell, and no one is going to mess with them. The minute I started writing screenplays, I upped my interest in writing books. I learned to write a novel. I learned how to really do good nonfiction essays. So I was very aware of that very problem. And in this case, I just got lucky. Everybody. Everybody saw it together. Everybody. Oh, my God, the set design for this show, this Beowulf board, is so brilliant. I mean, every day I just went there, and I would see something I had never almost imagined, but it was better than anything I could imagine. And I don't think that's very. I don't think it's very common in collaboration. I think that's the biggest problem is, you know, and especially with something as personal as this is, it can be really scary. God knows, I did not think I would end up on Broadway that, you know, that. That this is some sort of miracle, you know? And I began to think about miracles a lot. I began to think, you know, when you go down to get a subway and it comes right away, that's not luck. That is a tiny miracle I can't even believe have happened. But this is one of those.
- [16:37]
Charlie Gibson
When we first contacted your folks about talking to you about this transition of moving from a very successful book to what you hoped would be a successful play, your people said, well, she can't talk now. She's in rewrites. And I thought, how when you edit a book, that's one thing, but when you go through a play, you have to see, is it working? Are the audiences responding?
- [17:01]
Delia Ephron
What was the process? I was terrified of that part of it. You know, what happens is you open the play, and for the first two weeks of performances, you look and see what's working, what isn't working, and you start to adjust. And I would go to the theater, and then I would come home that night, and Stroh would write me a note. Oh, we'll have a Zoom at 8am tomorrow. And I know I'd be writing all day. Or we'd both say, well, you know, we need to cut that scene, or, this is too long here. And, you know, You. And it's very difficult now. I guess everything's computerized now, so making cuts in plays means that all the lighting is. It's a very elaborate thing to make changes in a play. But you work when? In the first couple weeks in the theater with an audience I found to be the most intense and thrilling and scary and, oh, my God, you know, and then. And then there'll be a problem, like, oh, this scene costs too much. You gotta make it cost less. So then, okay, I better put it outside. So then. But then that changes how people talk to each other. They don't talk the same inside as outside. You know, books go through so many phases. You know, you turn it in. My first draft's never that good. And then my second draft is much, much better. And then your editor, hopefully, is good at that, gives you edits on it, and then it goes through copy editing. It's yours and it's yours in a very personal way. And something like a play. It's not quite yours in the same way, but, I mean, it feels completely like it. But the collaboration is so much greater with the lighting and the dance and all the movement, all the staging. I mean, everything that. I mean, show is in charge, not me. And I just. You have to find your way.
- [18:58]
Kate Gibson
Does that make it easier, though?
- [19:00]
Delia Ephron
First of all, it's all your decision, really. In a book, I mean, you're making all the decisions they're suggesting. Maybe you want to do this, that and the other, but, you know, you just do it. But a play, you know, you're watching an audience watch it, and hopefully, I'm sure that there are a lot of writers, playwrights, who don't. Who don't see it the same way as their playwright, as their director, or who have an actor who's not doing what they wished. I'm sure I just. In this, it just didn't happen. And that, you know, as I said, miracle.
- [19:36]
Charlie Gibson
So Peter comes into your life later in life and nurses you through this. How does he feel seeing himself up there on stage?
- [19:45]
Kate Gibson
As Peter Gallagher, no less.
- [19:47]
Charlie Gibson
Did you worry about that?
- [19:48]
Delia Ephron
As Peter Gallagher, no less, who is a sweetheart of all time. Yeah. He's having so much fun, I can't even tell you. First of all, he's a psychiatrist, so it's very good he's retired, because otherwise this couldn't have happened under any circumstances because it has all his letters to me in it, you know, and everybody adores him. And he got to sit through all the. He had to sit. Not all the rehearsals. But an enormous number of them. He was sitting through tech rehearsal, which, as you can imagine, is as boring as anything known to man, and at crawling speed. And I said, gosh, this boring? He said, oh, no, I think it's so interesting. So, you know, he's. And then on. On opening night, you know, they wanted him to come up on stage, too. And I mean, okay. He ended up standing up on a Broadway stage on opening night. It was thrilling. I mean, he's just. He loves it.
- [20:39]
Kate Gibson
Having done this, would you do it again?
- [20:42]
Delia Ephron
Well, certainly, if I had an idea. I have written a musical based on My lion is in book. I've done a musical, and I have. I love that book. And I have a collaborator who lives in my building, actually is a composer, Eric Shore. And it was the thing that got me writing again when I. When I survived, and I thought, oh, I'm not going to write again. I had dinner with Eric, and I said, you know, I. I think my lion book is a musical. And he looked at it, he said, yeah, I think so too. And we started working together. It takes a really long time to write and figure out a musical, so I have that. Hopefully, some will be able to get it going in some.
- [21:25]
Kate Gibson
Oh, I'm looking forward to that. That's my favorite book of yours.
- [21:28]
Delia Ephron
It's my. Actually, it's. What it might be almost my favorite. I'm not totally sure. I don't like to choose among them because they're my kids, and that doesn't seem right. That one has a strange origin story, so I'm very attached to it.
- [21:45]
Kate Gibson
How did you handle that opening night? I mean, that must have been. I mean, what a deeply personal experience. And you have to sit there and watch those reactions live. What was that like for you? And how did you prepare?
- [21:57]
Delia Ephron
Well, first of all, I have to tell you, I've never watched the show any closer than the second to last row in the orchestra.
- [22:03]
Kate Gibson
Mm.
- [22:04]
Delia Ephron
It's. I. I'm scared to get closer.
- [22:07]
Kate Gibson
Really?
- [22:08]
Delia Ephron
Yeah.
- [22:09]
Kate Gibson
Why?
- [22:09]
Delia Ephron
I. I don't. I can't tell you why. I don't know why. I don't. I. I think just be too intimate or something. And that's the only way I can answer that question, is that I think some part of me is guarding against the understanding of it, you know, but, boy, when. When the lights went up, you know, on in front of the theater, we have this gorgeous theater. The James Earl Jones Theater has just been renovated, and it's so beautiful. And when my name went up and Juliana and Peter's picture and playwright. And, you know, I went there, it's on 48th street, and just stared at it for quite a long time. It was really, oh, my God, Broadway.
- [22:57]
Charlie Gibson
So left on 10th, the book. Left on 10th the play. Which is the biggest kick for you?
- [23:03]
Delia Ephron
Well, the biggest kick has got to be the play. But the play wouldn't be there without the book. I mean, books are. They're so cerebral, right? I mean, you sit, you know, lie in bed and read. You sit on the couch and read, you know, et cetera. And there's all this music and there's. There are these music moments in the play that are just so unexpected. So. And it's so much flashier in this great way. So I think also because I've written so many books, I mean, I've really written a ton of books, that this has a singularity for me.
- [23:38]
Kate Gibson
I have to say, I applaud your courage for even getting into the second last row orchestra. I think if my play opened and it was my love story, I would be in another state.
- [23:48]
Charlie Gibson
How many times have you read the book and how many times have you seen the play?
- [23:52]
Delia Ephron
Oh, well, that's tricky because I used the book to write the play. So I wouldn't say that was actually reading the book as much as mining the book. And that's a different thing. It's just very different. It's a different object. Totally.
- [24:13]
Charlie Gibson
And how many times have you seen the play?
- [24:15]
Delia Ephron
Really, a lot. So through the whole time of the rehearsal period, I was there at every show. And then now we miss it so much that we go at least a couple times a week, if not more, and just visit all the actors backstage and just have. We just, you know, it's a. It's a closed end run. It ends in. In. In February. I just want to get every ounce of juice that I can out of it.
- [24:42]
Charlie Gibson
So read the book, see the play. It's always interesting to me how people adapt one to the other and nobody could do it, I'm sure, with more skill than Delia Efron. Thank you very much for being with us.
- [24:55]
Kate Gibson
Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. What a great process and what a great process to examine with you. Thank you.
- [25:00]
Delia Ephron
Thank you for having me.
- [25:01]
Kate Gibson
Delia Efron, if you would stay tuned, we got some rapid fire questions for you.
- [25:12]
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Delia Ephron
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Delia Ephron
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- [27:18]
Charlie Gibson
Some rapid fire questions for Delia Efron the most exciting experience you've ever had in a theater. Not Counting left on 10th.
- [27:26]
Delia Ephron
Oh God. I think it was probably seeing Chorus Line the first time, but it might have been the first show I ever saw, which was Guys and Dolls when I was 6 and didn't understand anything about it. I lived in Beverly Hills, I grew up there and so when shows from Broadway came it was a big deal. My parents would take us to the theater downtown and we would all go and they were always carrying on about New York and Broadway and you know, when we grow up we'll leave Los Angeles and go there and you Know.
- [27:59]
Kate Gibson
What was your favorite congratulations gift on opening night?
- [28:03]
Delia Ephron
Oh, I loved everything. I mean, they were all very beautiful presents. Stroh gave me a street sign that said East 10th Street. I think it's on my mantle.
- [28:16]
Charlie Gibson
Were you more nervous about the reviews of the play or more nervous about reviews of books that you've written?
- [28:23]
Delia Ephron
Well, I don't read reviews ever. And I haven't from the very beginning. My parents hated critics. I mean, they were like the Evil Masters. You know what I mean? You know, they were trashed at the dinner table almost practically every night. My parents were screenwriters anyway, so. But when I started writing, I realized I didn't want my feelings about my own work to be affected by what other people said about it. I think it's a perfectly valid profession. If you want to be one, that's just fine. I have friends who are critics, but I don't read them, so I don't know anything about them.
- [29:02]
Kate Gibson
The last rapid fire I have for you is advice you gave Juliana on playing you.
- [29:08]
Delia Ephron
Oh, you know, one of the strangest things about. There's this word in the plague, Besheart. I don't know if you know it, but it's. It's an ancient Yiddish word that means fate or instant recognition that some sort of comfort or that you've been waiting for for a long time, if not a lifetime. And when Peter read my first email, he said to himself out loud, he said, shared. He felt that connection. And now we've extended it to feel Beshearte about. Everybody in this process is Besheart and Julian. And I feel especially Besheart because One, we both live in the Village. Two, we both have dogs. Three, we met because I was reading her memoir, and I realized she lived near me and how strange it was that I hadn't seen her. And that very afternoon, I was walking my dog from 10th to 5th Avenue. I made a left on 5th, and my dog sniffed another dog. And I looked to see who was walking it, and it was Juliana. And I introduced myself, and that's how we met. So we think our friendship is Bashir. We're also both left handed, but we play sports right handed. That is extremely rare. All right, so there's all this feeling about. And then Peter Gallagher, that Peter, my Peter is a Jungian analyst. All right, so Peter Gallagher went to play golf where I. He plays golf all the time in Ireland. And there was a bench with a quote from Carl Jung on it. And Peter's a Jungian. He follows the teachings of Carl Jung. So that was Bashir. So he sent us and all the men in the Player named Peter. Peter, my Peter, Peter Francis James and Peter Gallagher. So that's Bashir. So we think this entire thing is Bashir.
- [30:57]
Charlie Gibson
Well, and there's an old English word, karma. It's all karma.
- [31:01]
Delia Ephron
Yeah, that's right. That's another word for it for sure.
- [31:06]
Charlie Gibson
Again, Delia Ephron. Thank you. Delia Ephron, A really interesting story. I was very interested in it because originally, before the book came out, because she went through the same kind of bone marrow transplant that Robin Roberts, my old pal and co host on Good Morning America, went through. And I know how traumatic it was and how tough. How tough it was for Robin. And so that Delia had gone through the same thing was really, to me, made the book even more interesting.
- [31:39]
N/A
Yeah.
- [31:39]
Kate Gibson
And I can't. I haven't had to go through it, but I can't imagine. And Delia writes about it so beautifully in the memoir. I can't imagine. And in the play, I can't imagine how diminished the disease makes you feel, how small and lost. And so again, to have the courage to write that down in a memoir for thousands to read so that they can find strength in her experience, and then to say, I want to share that with Broadway audiences and to have to go through the terror of sitting in an audience and finding out whether or not they laugh and they cry at all the right spots. Delia Ephron. Profiles encourage everybody.
- [32:16]
Charlie Gibson
But anyway, we have a bookstore for you. We haven't had one in a few weeks, and I'm so glad to get back to it. This one is Francie and Finch. It is in Lincoln, Nebraska. A woman by the name of Leslie Huerta started that bookstore a few years ago and right near the University of Nebraska. And we had a chance to talk to her about. About the business. Leslie Huerta from Francie and Finch. It's good to have you with us. Lincoln, Nebraska. And I've got a start. Francie and Finch.
- [32:47]
N/A
Where'd the name come from, Francie and Finch? Well, I pondered a lot of things. It's kind of very sentimental. They're two little girls. Reading was really important. Francie Nolan was a little girl in a book, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith. And Scout Finch was in the book To Kill a Mockingbird. So, yeah, those were, like I said, sentimental choices for us.
- [33:09]
Kate Gibson
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn is one of those books that just. It grows with you. You read it when you're a kid. You read it when you're in your 20s, you read it when you're like, I just reread it a couple of years ago just because it's one of those books that changes meaning as you get older. And I. I love that book. I love both of those books. But. But A Tree Grows in Brooklyn has a special place in my heart. So way to go, Francie.
- [33:31]
N/A
Thank you.
- [33:32]
Charlie Gibson
So in Lincoln, obviously the university is there, and you've had the store how long?
- [33:38]
N/A
We opened in 2016, so eight years.
- [33:41]
Kate Gibson
I'm always fascinated as to how somebody ended up crazy enough to get in the business that everybody has said for decades and decades and decades is dying and is on its way out. So how did you end up in the crazy and wonderful business of owning an independent bookstore?
- [33:56]
N/A
Yeah. And when it came to me was the time, Charlie, you mentioned about students and textbooks and that type of thing. But Amazon was big. The ebook, those little Kindle things were real big. And everybody was saying print was big, dad. And I was very sad because I've always been a bookstore and a library lover. But I was on a business trip and. Well, let me back up a little bit. I was growing really weary with my corporate world and getting to the age where I thought, geez, I want what? What could I do? And I couldn't think of anything. But I was on a business trip and American Airlines had an article about the resurging success of independent books stores. And it talked about a few that I was familiar with, some new ones. They were all successful and thriving. And I just thought to myself, God, if I could do one thing, that would be it. And I was like a school girl with a crush. I could not get it out of my head. I dreamt every night what I would do, this how, what it would look like, all the things I would do. I was just really, really enamored with the idea. And I took about a year and a half, though, you know, to Soul Search and research and all that stuff, and then we did it. And I still pinch myself.
- [35:11]
Charlie Gibson
What surprised you most about getting into a business about which it sounds like you didn't know a whole lot?
- [35:18]
N/A
I would encourage anybody that's starting a business to check out the trade association for their industry. But for the book industry, ABA has wonderful training, insights, networking. It just made me feel that was the first thing I did. And I felt an immediate level of comfort with the journey I was starting on.
- [35:38]
Charlie Gibson
I know you're in an historic old building in Lincoln, Nebraska, the old telephone company building, I think you said. So obviously you didn't buy a bookstore that existed. You had to start from scratch. What was that process like and what was the hardest part?
- [35:56]
Kate Gibson
Since we've already called you crazy.
- [35:57]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah, right.
- [35:59]
N/A
It was crazy. I think the realtor thought I was nuts. But I had already identified three neighborhoods that just. They looked like a bookstore. Right. And then I had to figure out if it really made sense to support. To support one. And downtown was one area. And I kept coming back. This building is beautiful. It was built in 1894. It looks like a bookstore. The COVID of my business plan has a photo of Boulder Books in Boulder. I don't know if you're familiar with that, and we're not near as grand as that, but it's kind of a similar architecture. So I was inspired and I thought the location was. Was good. And we are in so many wedding pictures, senior pictures, high school graduation pictures, because the uniqueness of the building. There's this metal staircase in the alley and everybody goes to the alley to take their photos.
- [36:51]
Kate Gibson
I like the idea too, that you not only learned about it from there, that you thought about it from an airline magazine, but that you had sort of a crush on bookstores. I'm picturing like pinups of like bookstore center folds.
- [37:02]
Charlie Gibson
Are you a. Are you a sort of passive owner or do you actually work the floor and get out and meet the customers?
- [37:10]
N/A
A little bit of both. When I open, we were open seven days a week and I was there every day from nine till eight at night, Monday through Saturday and then Sundays I clean. We've since grown and I've, you know, I have staff there. I think, I think I can share this with you. I'm in my home office right now. I have a full time caregiver of. My husband has all assignments. Yeah. So I'm able to run a lot of the business right here. I can do the ordering, I can do the communications, the marketing, the social media. And then I treat myself to every Saturday and every event. We do a lot of events with, with amazing authors from all over the world. I treat myself to do those. But otherwise the day to day is covered by some amazing staff.
- [37:57]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah.
- [37:57]
Kate Gibson
Can I just say also listeners, cynics, listeners who expected. When we said, Leslie, where to right now, what would you say to Leslie, where it's in the past, how many of you thought to yourself she would say run, run the other way and never suck? But she didn't.
- [38:11]
Delia Ephron
She.
- [38:11]
Kate Gibson
She said, it's been amazing and it was even more successful than I thought it would be. So please, listeners, do not give up on shopping or thinking about opening an independent bookstore yourself.
- [38:21]
Charlie Gibson
Leslie Huerta. The bookstore is Francie and Finch. It is on 13th Street south in Lincoln, Nebraska, right on the corner of O Street and in an old historic telephone company building. We thank you, we wish you luck, and we wish you prosperity as you pursue your store. Thanks.
- [38:43]
N/A
Thank you. It was a treat.
- [38:49]
Charlie Gibson
Leslie Huerta of Francie and Finch in Lincoln, Nebraska.
- [38:53]
Kate Gibson
So I have to ask you, before we sign off, I have to ask you. So she has this great name for her bookstore that's named after her two favorite literary characters. So if you were going to open a bookstore and name it after your two favorite characters, it was such and such. Who would they be?
- [39:10]
Charlie Gibson
Well, Owen Meaney would certainly be one from the wonderful, wonderful book that John Irving wrote. And the second one, it would be either Owen and Wilbur from Charlotte's Web. Owen and Wilbur's bookstore would be interesting or it would be Owen and Charlotte. But I think Owen and Wilbur. I like that.
- [39:30]
Kate Gibson
Wilbur and Owen also work either way. Yeah.
- [39:34]
Charlie Gibson
Those would be the two that I would name after. How about you?
- [39:36]
Kate Gibson
Oh, gosh, I don't know. Okay, how about. Ooh. Okay. So Andy Dufresne from the Shawshank Redemption, one of my all time favorite characters. So it would be Dufresne and Meanie, because Owen Meanie is definitely one of mine as well. But I think if you put it with Dufresne, Andy Dufresne. Is it Dufresne and Meanie. And then it's sounds official and kind of old world.
- [39:58]
Charlie Gibson
So. So it would be Defrain and Meanie or it would be Andy and Meanie.
- [40:02]
Kate Gibson
Yeah, or. Yeah, exactly.
- [40:04]
Charlie Gibson
One of those.
- [40:05]
Kate Gibson
Yeah, exactly. One of those.
- [40:07]
Charlie Gibson
Well, we're. We're sorry to ruin your day, folks.
- [40:10]
Delia Ephron
We made you take.
- [40:11]
Kate Gibson
We made you. We will bring it all back. We made you take a left on 10th with us. Ah, see?
- [40:17]
Charlie Gibson
Nice to. Nice to. Way to work that in. Thank you. We'll do the credits as normal and then a coda from Dania Ephron.
- [40:24]
Kate Gibson
The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our executive producers are Laura Mayer and Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Taylor Rhodes, Amanda McMaster and Sarah Russell at Good Morning America and Josh Cohen, Asal Asanapour, Meg Fierro and Amira Williams at ABC Audio.
- [40:45]
Delia Ephron
Oh, I have to say something.
- [40:47]
Kate Gibson
Yes.
- [40:48]
Delia Ephron
I don't know. Look outside the window every day.