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- [00:00]
Lori Bergamotto
From ABC News and Good Morning America, I'm Lori Bergamotto. Today's brightly moment is brought to you by Macy's this Mother's Day. A special video from the GMA vault.
- [00:11]
Kate
Oh, my. You made it.
- [00:14]
Lori Bergamotto
It was graduation day for Sabrina Hill, an Air Force veteran receiving her associate's degree in nursing from Purdue University. She hadn't seen her son Blaine Juhas, an active duty army specialist serving overseas for nine months until welcome home. It was a long drive and long flight to West Lafayette, Indiana, but Blaine says, surprising his mom was worth every mile.
- [00:38]
Elizabeth Strout
After a month of not seeing me, she was sobbing.
- [00:41]
Kate
So gonna be something special.
- [00:43]
Lori Bergamotto
Purdue Global's graduation team worked with Blaine to arrange the Mother's Day surprise.
- [00:48]
Elizabeth Strout
Sabrina Hill, U.S. air Force veteran.
- [00:53]
Lori Bergamotto
This brightly moment has been brought to you by Macy's this Mother's Day. Let Macy's be your guide to gifting.
- [01:07]
Charlie
Welcome, welcome, welcome. It is really good to have all of you gathered around the computer or gathered around your phone or gathered around wherever you hear your podcasts. It is the bookcase with Kate and Charlie. And by process of elimination, she is Kate and I am Charlie.
- [01:24]
Kate
I am. And I love, love, love May, specifically at my house. Now, I'm going to give you guys just a little bit of background, so get comfortable. My mom and dad live in Seattle in this really high up apartment. And they love in the mornings watching, like in the afternoons too, the eagles that live around their apartment building. It's like their own little nature channel. Well, in May I have my own and I'm going to tell you about it. I love it. So May, I live across from a really big city park with a giant rose garden and some beautiful fountains. And May is prom season. And I know that sounds silly, but everybody parks their cars and comes takes their prom picture in the big park across the way. And I just love it. It feels like my own little wildlife channel. I'm watching that I'm old enough and removed enough from going to prom that I'm like, look at these species going to prom. Like, sometimes I make my own David Attenborough's. You know, watch the prom mail. And all the girls look so beautiful and the boys look goofy. A lot of them with the big shoes and they're carrying the big corsage box. And their parents are following them at a distance, trying to take pictures. They don't want to be at too great a distance, but they don't want to embarrass their kids by being too close. I love prom season. I love watching all the Kids walk by our house to get their pictures taken.
- [02:40]
Charlie
You sentimentalist.
- [02:41]
Kate
I do. I do. I love it. I love it. It's like my own little, like, met Gala that goes on. You know, it's like my Met Gala for teens, but it's also like a wildlife experience. And it all happens around my house every Saturday night in May. I hate missing Saturday nights in May. Some of my neighbors go get picnic baskets. I'm not kidding. Picnic baskets and dinners and go sit over there and watch the kids get their pictures taken. It really is like. It's a whole event in my neighborhood lot going on with me, obviously.
- [03:11]
Charlie
But still, that is what my life has become on a Saturday night, right?
- [03:15]
Kate
Yes, yes. Living vicariously through kids in high school. God, I have a full life. But it is one of my. It is one of my favorite seasons in this neighborhood in Minneapolis, where I live. So, you know, come to Minneapolis. Watch prom season. Watch the. The gathering of the prom season. Anyway, that's nothing to say.
- [03:33]
Charlie
I've never heard our show Sentimentality about Proms from you before. It is interesting. All the boys in these situations look the same. You know, they got a tuxedo or they got a dark suit or whatever. And first of all, they don't quite know how to tie their ties. But the girls all look so pretty. They really do.
- [03:51]
Kate
They do. The girls all look like young women and the boys all look like goofy boys.
- [03:56]
Charlie
That's exactly right.
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Kate
I'm sorry. Making very large generals.
- [03:58]
Elizabeth Strout
You are.
- [03:59]
Charlie
But it's true.
- [03:59]
Kate
The mothers and boys. But you get to choose as a boy whether or not you match the dress with the. With the tie and the whole bit. And they're all. Some of them are wearing sneakers and baseball hats because they haven't quite figured out to leave them at the doctor.
- [04:11]
Charlie
They hired limos or are mom and dad driving?
- [04:14]
Kate
No, mom and dad generally drive to the picture sites. And again, that's one of the interesting things about the wildlife channel you watch is how the mom and dads interact with. With their young at this point. Because, again, the kids are like mom, but they want them there because they want the good photos.
- [04:30]
Charlie
Well, welcome to. Well, welcome to our podcast, Prom Night with Kate and Charlie. This came out of nowhere. We had a book that we planned to talk about tonight. Maybe we won't even get to it. No, we should. We should. Elizabeth Strout, one of our favorite authors. One of America's favorite authors. Eleven books now. I counted up. This is her 11th novel coming out. The Things We Never say. Eleventh novel. I counted nine of them that I've read, and I've enjoyed every single one of them, this being no exception. But there is an exception for Elizabeth Strout, because we have come to know her. For Olive Kittredge, who is an indelible character. For Lucy Barton, about whom she's written, what, two or three of the books. She has put aside all of that familiar cast of characters. She has launched out with a new character, Artie Dam, D. A M. A high school English teacher. And it's a wonderful book, and it has, I think, a very distinctive theme.
- [05:33]
Kate
You get the sense that Elizabeth Strout puts on. You know, if her characters had whole head masks that she puts on the mask of her characters and writes through their eyes just beautifully, almost seamlessly. And Artie Dam is no exception. He's. He's definitely at the beginning of the book, going through a bit of a midlife crisis. He feels alienated from his son Rob, and his wife Evie. And yet the book is about him. I hate to use the word growing up because, again, he's in midlife, but making some big realizations about life based on his world. He is a teacher. And so this book is about how he affects his students. It's about his relationship with Evie as they get older together. And it's about him growing closer with his son over a series of crises. But really, the book is about the fact that no matter how long Evie and Artie have been married, no matter how close Rob and Artie are, you can never really know what's going on in the mind of somebody that you love or that you're close to. Their mind is always a mystery, no matter what they say.
- [06:34]
Charlie
Well, I think that's a hallmark of Elizabeth Trout. She gets. She tries always to get into the minds of her characters, and she does such a wonderful job of it. And the second thing is she writes about ordinary people. These are not extraordinary stories. You know, there aren't fireworks in the middle of the book. She wants to get into the minds of her characters, even while her theme is you can't do that. You can't really ever understand fully what's going on with another human being. And interestingly, as you'll hear, she picked out Artie Dam as a character because she had seen a picture of somebody who looked so totally ordinary, almost like.
- [07:18]
Kate
And yet appealing.
- [07:19]
Charlie
Yes.
- [07:19]
Kate
And yet appealing. Ordinary, but appealing.
- [07:21]
Elizabeth Strout
Yes.
- [07:22]
Charlie
At least his face evinced no particular character. At the end of the book, I might want to read one passage because, as Kate says, Artie is Sort of growing up at the age of 57. And he is beginning to realize that people don't fully understand one another. Why don't people ever say anything real? And now he knew why. Because to say anything real was to say things that nobody wanted to know. Or if they wanted to know, they would not care in the right way or even understand. It was a private thing to be alive. And he understood this. Now, Artie Dam, he's a really interesting character. I think she has found a really good replacement for the ones we know, Olive Kittridge and Lucy Barton. And she does get in the mind of Artie Dam, as you'll hear her say. She tries hard and hard. Just one other very small thing to say before we get to the interview and leave the promotion. There is some politics in this book. It's brief, it's necessary. I think Elizabeth Strout wanted to get it off her back and say what she thought. She says it very briefly. We tried to keep the podcast non political, but for Elizabeth Strout we would do anything. Our conversation with Elizabeth Strout and the book is the Things We Never say.
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Kate
Elizabeth Strout, it is so nice to have you back in the bookcase. You are now a three timer.
- [08:57]
Elizabeth Strout
I'm so happy to see you both and be here. Thank you very much.
- [09:01]
Charlie
We're very grateful.
- [09:03]
Kate
The Things We Never Say is a rare bird because you're writing obviously without Lucy Barton or the Burgess boys or Olive Kittredge, the characters we've come to love with you. And I wonder if that makes you feel more naked or more vulnerable as this book is released.
- [09:19]
Elizabeth Strout
Well, I think this book is different. It's different because it's a different set of characters. I mean, it's not taking place in Maine, although Massachusetts is not tremendously different. Although it is culturally different. But there's a narrative risk. I mean, it's a different kind of book. And I was aware of that and I thought, okay, let's just do it, let's just do it. So I did.
- [09:41]
Charlie
But there's a certain gutsiness that's involved in putting aside characters that you know are gonna resonate with people because they have so often in the past.
- [09:51]
Elizabeth Strout
Right, right.
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Charlie
So you set out with somebody else. You don't know. Do you feel like you're taking a little risk?
- [09:57]
Elizabeth Strout
Yeah, I do. There's definitely for me a sense of risk with this book coming out. Yep.
- [10:02]
Charlie
So the little note from the publisher on the advanced reader copy said that you had lunch with him. I don't know More than a year ago and just spelled out Artie Dam. So you've gone to a new protagonist, Artie. Damn. Tell us about him.
- [10:18]
Kate
And when did he first visit you? Because I know the character's voices visit you. So when did he first speak to you?
- [10:24]
Elizabeth Strout
Well, this, this is interesting about Artie Dam. I mean, interesting for me and hope for, for listeners. But Artie Dam showed up on the outer edge of my mind a few years ago. I have a friend in upstate New York who just sends me different things, whatever. Anyway, one day he sent me obituaries from the 60s and 70s. A page of them, and I was just looking through them and there was a man with the last name Dam, only that was spelled D A M M. And he had these big wire framed glasses. And he was so ordinary looking and so pleasant looking. And I can still remember his face. And I don't know, I can't remember what the obituary said he did or anything like that, but his face was so pleasant and ordinary. Unbelievably plain and ordinary. And he stayed with me, had a smile and he stayed with me. And then I thought, Artie Dam. And then once I got his name, which is always helpful, I realized, oh, Artie, let's go. Let's see what you're going to tell me.
- [11:29]
Kate
And what did he tell you? What were the first directions that the things we never say pushed you in?
- [11:35]
Elizabeth Strout
You know, it's interesting because the first scene in the book where he's having dinner with Flossy, that was actually the first scene I wrote. And that's very unusual for me because I will write many different scenes and then go back and figure out, okay, it's going to start here or there. But that was the first scene I wrote. And I realized later that I wanted the word jovial in there. She says, don't ever stop being jovial. And I thought, okay, Artie is going to be known by his friends and his family. He's just gonna be known as a jovial person. And he'll probably even think that about himself. And then we find out that he's not feeling so jovial. And so I, I found it out that way. And then as I wrote, I realized that sometimes when I'm writing truthfully or, you know, emotionally truthfully, I realize that I have set little clues for myself when I go back. And I realize, oh, it was all right there because Artie's feeling sad at the beginning of the book. And then I thought, oh, now I get it, because Evie has gone with her Own particular problems. At the moment, she's not as there for him as she usually is. And then his son has distanced himself. And then I realized. Now I get why. So it was there. It was interesting.
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Charlie
Evie, his wife, and his son and his son, Rob and his wife. Francesca.
- [12:57]
Elizabeth Strout
Yes.
- [12:58]
Charlie
So I get the fact that the character appeals to you, the name appeals to you, and from that devolves a personality which is sort of intuited from the obituary that you saw.
- [13:10]
Elizabeth Strout
Yeah, I guess that was the beginning. The germ.
- [13:13]
Charlie
But the theme to me. Who am I as an onlooker to intuit the theme. But the theme to me is that as much as you may know somebody, as close as you may be to them, you don't know what's going on inside. And a lot's going inside already that does not appear in the surface. So did you want to incorporate that theme from the get go?
- [13:38]
Elizabeth Strout
You know, I don't think in terms of themes until after the book is done. And then I realized, oh, this was what I was writing about. You know, I'm just trying so hard to be that character and to be inside the character's head. But I did realize, and it's in many ways it's a continuation of all my work because I've always been interested in people's interior lives, because we all have an interior life, and it bumps up against the exterior world. And that's always interested me as a writer. And then I realized this is even taking it further with Artie. You know, so here's a man just sort of bumbling his way through life, and he begins to understand what that might mean. And I think in this particular story, it means there are things that we do not say.
- [14:28]
Charlie
But, Liz, it leads to the question, can you ever unearth that which is going on in the mind? Because as I read it, Liz Stroud is about to put every therapist in America out of business. If you can't come to know your patient, then what the hell are you doing?
- [14:46]
Elizabeth Strout
I know. I know. I. Right. Well, I think many therapists are doing a very good job because, you know, there's obviously some essential something to all of us, and that's what I hope a therapist is working with, you know, and helping the person to know themselves better as well. But I'm not sure. Actually, now that I've written this book, I'm not sure. Well, let me just say we'll never know what it's like to be inside somebody else's head. And that's one reason I'm a writer because I just always wanted to know what it's like to be inside somebody else's head. So I make it up. But in real life, you know, we'll never know what it's like to see something through a different set of eyes.
- [15:27]
Kate
It's interesting because I was talking to my mother about this book last night, and she was saying. I think one of the things she's saying is don't ever leave anything unsaid. And I thought that's interesting, because I took it as almost exactly the opposite, is that sometimes. Often it can be important to keep things to yourself. Am I right or is she right?
- [15:47]
Elizabeth Strout
That's a really, really good question. And I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to sound like I'm trying to appease both, but I actually think you're both right. Because I was also aware of that as I was writing the book. I thought people should say more. They should just put themselves out there more. And yet, for Artie, I'm not sure he was able to, you see, and that's a separate question. It's like if you're a person that you're living your life in a certain way, and then there's certain things you're not going to be able to say, even though he tries at certain times, but he doesn't. And that's because he's arty, you see? So there's something essential about who he is.
- [16:27]
Kate
He says at one point, when he realizes that he's grown up, he says, being alive is a private thing. He understood that now. And I thought, yeah, yeah, it is.
- [16:41]
Elizabeth Strout
That's so funny, because when I wrote that sentence, I actually thought that myself. I thought, oh, look at that sentence. I think that's a true sentence. So I left it. So thank you. I'm glad you thought it was as well.
- [16:57]
Charlie
It's a really interesting question. There should always be nothing left unsaid. The person who is hurting or whatever needs to know how you feel. They just need to be able to internalize your love.
- [17:10]
Kate
I was thinking that leads into sort of the next theme that I think was really important in this book, which is the difference that you make in other people's lives that perhaps you are unaware of.
- [17:21]
Charlie
Right.
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Kate
And how you can change the direction. How Mr. Schwartz did that for Artie, how Artie did that to Ronnie and Danny.
- [17:29]
Elizabeth Strout
Yeah.
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Kate
And maybe those are the things that shouldn't be left unsaid is this is the effect you've had on me. And the way you Changed my life.
- [17:36]
Elizabeth Strout
Right. And I think, I think that happens so much more than we're aware of. Because I, I, especially during these times, I'm very aware of even my interaction with a stranger. I'm. I'm trying to be nicer and be friendlier in every little interaction that I have. And I've feel that there's a reciprocity I feel that's happening back toward me during this time as well. And it helps me, it makes me feel better as I go through my day. So in that little tiny way. But then also I think, especially teachers, people that work with young people, I think that it's such an act of faith because you don't. You probably will never know what effect you've had on somebody. And it might be years before that person knows themselves. So being a teacher is very much a potential way to really, really affect people and not yet live to hear it.
- [18:29]
Kate
One of the things I also was talking to my mom about last night. Cause she was a teacher. And she said, if you are lucky enough to have a box of letters and photographs from former students like Artie, it's worth all the salary that you never make.
- [18:44]
Elizabeth Strout
Yes, precisely. Absolutely the salary you never make. Never understood why teachers couldn't be paid more. They're so important. But yeah, I think she's right. Yeah.
- [18:56]
Kate
But I think that's interesting that you wrote a character that has great interiority. Because as I said to my dad last night, in some ways, I think nobody is better at capturing the ping ponging, zigzagging human mind than Elizabeth Strout. And you and I have talked about this before, this sort of elliptical storytelling where, you know, Artie's looking at this and then he goes, but that reminds me of a couple I saw in the airport. And they were so obviously in love and they shared a sandwich. And again, you've always said you do that just by instinct. You just do it by instinct. I still want to get to the bottom of how you do that.
- [19:30]
Elizabeth Strout
It has to do with the concentration. Like when I am writing, I am so deeply, deeply concentrating on what is Artie feeling like? Am I almost Arty? How Arty can I be at that moment? And I just go down and down and down as far as I can into the head of Artie. And then I realized, oh, he saw that couple. Let's see how that works. Like, you know, like. So it's all because I'm trying so hard to be that person in there. So Artie surprises me. My characters do surprise me. Even Though I. I guess I know I'm making them. I mean, I am. I'm perfectly aware. I'm not. I'm not channeling them or anything. Like I am creating them as I go along. But there is this sliver where they are who they are, and I'm trying to scramble after them and find them. So they surprised me.
- [20:30]
Kate
Why, in your mind, do you think the concept of whether or not free will exists and the discussions of Carl Jung and whatnot, when did that become a part of the makeup of Artie? And why do you think it's so important to him?
- [20:44]
Elizabeth Strout
You know, that's interesting, because I don't think the Artie that I have created, I don't think of him as having thought particularly a great deal about those things before his life. And he may have started to wonder a little bit after his son had that terrible accident, but we're not sure. But at this point in Artie's life, you know, he is evolving. He is, as he understands, becoming a grownup. And so he does start to wonder, especially at the beginning when he's feeling so distressed. He's like, is there even free will? Which is like a surprise for him. And he's sort of vigorously interested in that. And then it turns out his son is as well. So they can talk about it. His son steers him to Carl Jung.
- [21:30]
Lori Bergamotto
But.
- [21:31]
Elizabeth Strout
So it just seemed to me that at this point in Artie's life, he would begin to entertain some of these thoughts.
- [21:38]
Charlie
As I read it, I thought, this is something that Liz Stroud is going through, that she wouldn't be writing this at this stage of her life unless that question wasn't in her mind.
- [21:50]
Elizabeth Strout
You know, I think about. It might have been around 10 years ago, or I'm not sure with time anymore, but let's say something like 10 years ago. Not huge amount of time, not tiny. But I was sitting with a friend and she said something about she didn't think there was any free will. And I was amazed because I had actually. She said it like she. She did believe it. But I was so surprised by her declaration of this that I kind of have been thinking about that ever since. I mean, not all the time, but. But she put it out there, and I thought, how interesting. So I do, you know, think about it and go back and forth how much we have and how much we don't because of this friend.
- [22:29]
Kate
You said you wrote the first scene first. Did you write the rest of the book in order as well? You did?
- [22:35]
Elizabeth Strout
I did pretty much write that book in order, and that's be. And I found that to be curious later when I looked back at it, because it's an odd way to start a book with a man thinking about whether or not he wants to live. I mean, where do you go from there? And that's when I realized, oh, now I understand why he's been having those thoughts. So now we're gonna pull him back into life and have him live his life. And so I did write it, pretty much, yeah. Which was interesting for me.
- [23:07]
Charlie
One of the things I thought was interesting is a little bit. You broke the fourth wall.
- [23:12]
Elizabeth Strout
It's interesting when you say the fourth wall. Yes, I did do narrative. I took narrative risks with this book. And I did have the narrator absolutely directly address the reader and then back out, and then again would come in, you know, with a few observations that the narrator was telling the reader, and then I would go ahead in time, parenthetically.
- [23:35]
Kate
So, yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. The parenthetical foreshadowing, which is really interesting, because after I would get done with the parenthetical foreshadowing, it would change my feeling about the direction of the narrator and about the characters. Why do you think that was important for this book?
- [23:53]
Elizabeth Strout
I don't know. Because it came out that way. I mean, I really, like. I wrote it. And so I would write those parenthetical, you know, future things. And then as I was going back and reading it, I thought, I'm gonna keep those. I just. For me, they seem to work in a new kind of way that the book was trying to do, so that you're not really looking for the plot, because I'm not a big plot person. So I could give this to the reader and then return them into the mind of Artie somebody.
- [24:27]
Charlie
I think it was Sue Miller who said to us, even in the worst of characters, even in the most dislikable characters, you need to find something that's redemptive, something that's. That there's a spark of humanity in every single character. Do you think about that?
- [24:45]
Elizabeth Strout
I do. I have always. Well, you know, I've written about some very difficult people, obviously, like Olive Kitchen. She misbehaves every time she opens her mouth and walks into a room. So, you know, and I. I have long understood, and I. I've probably even said this before. But one of the things that I enjoy so much about writing is that when I go to the page, I suspend judgment. I just do not judge my characters. And that's so freeing, because in real life. You know, we do judge and I, I mean, I think we probably have to to maneuver our way through life. We have to have our judgments about people. But it's so tiring. And so when I go to the page, I'm like, oh, just do whatever you need to do and I don't care. I'm just going to be here to report.
- [25:31]
Charlie
Elizabeth Stroup, thank you very much. It is so loved to talk to you.
- [25:35]
Elizabeth Strout
It was just lovely to speak to both of you. Thank you very, very much.
- [25:39]
Kate
We're going to take a pause for a moment and when we come back, some rapid fire questions for the great Elizabeth Strout.
- [25:51]
Lori Bergamotto
From ABC News and Good Morning America. I'm Lori Bergamotto. Today's Brightly moment is brought to you by Macy's this Mother's Day. A special video from the GMA vault.
- [26:02]
Kate
Oh my God, you made it.
- [26:05]
Lori Bergamotto
It was graduation day for Sabrina Hill, an Air Force veteran receiving her associate's degree in nursing from Purdue University. She hadn't seen her son, Blaine Juhas, an active duty army specialist serving overseas for nine months, until welcome home. It was a long drive and long flight to West Lafayette, Indiana, but Blaine says surprising his mom was worth every mile.
- [26:30]
Elizabeth Strout
After a month of not seeing me, she was sobbing.
- [26:32]
Kate
So gonna be be something special.
- [26:34]
Lori Bergamotto
Purdue Global's graduation team worked with Blaine to arrange the Mother's Day surprise.
- [26:39]
Elizabeth Strout
Sabrina Hill, U.S. air Force Veterans this
- [26:45]
Lori Bergamotto
Brightly moment has been brought to you by Macy's this Mother's Day. Let Macy's be your guide to gifting.
- [26:51]
Kate
Get business done with the new American Express graphite Business Cash Unlimited card with unlimited 2% cash back on all eligible cards. Purchases unlimited 5% cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel online and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of $1,500 cash back after you spend $50,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership terms apply. Learn more at go MX Graphite.
- [27:22]
Elizabeth Strout
Did you know your hair ages just like your skin does? The new Chronologist line offers luxurious youth revitalizing care for aging.
- [27:31]
Kate
It reverses the five key signs of
- [27:33]
Elizabeth Strout
hair lack of thickness and volume, dullness,
- [27:36]
Kate
dryness and frizz in just one night.
- [27:39]
Elizabeth Strout
Use the full range of crinologiste shampoo, mask and overnight serum and wake up
- [27:44]
Kate
to visibly fuller, smoother, healthier hair.
- [27:47]
Elizabeth Strout
Shop the new chronologist line@kerastase.com.
- [27:57]
Kate
Rapid fires for Elizabeth Strout, your favorite author growing up.
- [28:01]
Elizabeth Strout
Hemingway.
- [28:02]
Kate
Really? Huh.
- [28:04]
Elizabeth Strout
Yeah. We had a whole shelf of his books that my grandfather had bought from what they used to call a Fuller Brushman back then. And I went through those. We didn't have children's books.
- [28:18]
Kate
Wow.
- [28:18]
Elizabeth Strout
Yeah.
- [28:19]
Kate
Okay.
- [28:20]
Elizabeth Strout
Book you're reading right now, Colm Toibin's the News From Dublin.
- [28:25]
Kate
Oh. Is it good?
- [28:26]
Elizabeth Strout
Yes, I love it.
- [28:27]
Kate
Okay.
- [28:28]
Elizabeth Strout
Love it.
- [28:29]
Charlie
One thing on your writing desk that might surprise us.
- [28:34]
Elizabeth Strout
Oh, perfume. Well, that surprises me. So it might surprise you.
- [28:44]
Charlie
Why is that necessary since you're all by yourself?
- [28:48]
Elizabeth Strout
I don't know. I just like it. I just. I actually. I just. I have perfume on my writing desk. Yeah, I'm sorry. I do.
- [28:56]
Kate
In your mind, is there a most underrated author of today that you wish people would pay more attention to, but they aren't?
- [29:03]
Elizabeth Strout
Well, William Trevor. He passed away a few years ago, but I still think of him as a contemporary writer because he was writing for so long and he wrote so much, and I. I have always found him to be consistently underrated. I mean, people just don't seem to know his work. And I think his work is amazing. Just amazing. And he's written so much of it. I just don't know why he's not better known.
- [29:29]
Charlie
Did you ask Lucy Barton or Olive Kittredge to read this book?
- [29:34]
Elizabeth Strout
No. No, I left them sitting wherever they're sitting.
- [29:41]
Kate
No. Okay. You've had Frances McDormand play Olive Kittredge. Do you have somebody in mind who would make a great Artie Dam?
- [29:51]
Elizabeth Strout
You know, I just. Sadly, I picture him as Philip Seymour Hoffman, but obviously.
- [29:56]
Kate
Oh, I love Philip Seymour Hoffman.
- [29:59]
Elizabeth Strout
I know that's kind of my Artie Dam, but obviously that's not gonna happen. But there we are.
- [30:06]
Kate
There we are. The last one I'll ask you is your idea of an ideal Saturday night.
- [30:12]
Elizabeth Strout
Oh. To go to this little restaurant with my husband in Maine. Very unfancy little place where we know the waitresses and stuff, and then come home and talk. How's that?
- [30:25]
Kate
No, that's actually probably my dad's ideal Saturday night as well.
- [30:29]
Elizabeth Strout
Yeah. Yep.
- [30:29]
Charlie
It is indeed. It is indeed. Pizza, movie, and some conversation with my wife afterwards.
- [30:35]
Kate
As long as she's not nagging you to do something you've forgotten. First of all, I love this book. I just love this book. Second of all, I want to say that the reason my father read a passage and not Elizabeth Stroud, as we usually do, is she was not in Maine at her home, and she had not brought A copy of the book with her to where she was. So it isn't just that we love hearing the sound of our own voice, it's that she didn't actually have a copy of of her own book to read.
- [31:01]
Charlie
I offered to send her some money so she could buy one. I accused her of not being able to afford her own book, but it turns out she just left it in Maine and forgot. But you know when your new book is about to be published and you'd forget to bring it down, well, who knows?
- [31:15]
Kate
You'd be so proud of getting your new book published, you'd have the words tattooed on the back of your head, carrying it around.
- [31:21]
Elizabeth Strout
Oh, look.
- [31:22]
Charlie
Look at this. Look at this. Would you like to read a page? Would you like to look what I have?
- [31:25]
Kate
Yes, exactly. The other things I want to say to fans of hers is also, please pick this book up because even though it explores a new character who I do believe you will love and adore, there are still all the great hallmarks of Elizabeth Strout books. Great writing, elliptical thinking, the great internalization. Like, she does such a great job of like the zigzagging, ping ponging way the mind works. She does such a beautiful job of sort of discussing everything from important issues to random thoughts. So this will feel very much like an Elizabeth Strout book, even though it will introduce you to a new character who again, I think you will come to love as much as Lucy or Olive. So please don't be frightened by the fact that this is a departure from her usual character roster.
- [32:15]
Charlie
We should mention that we're nattering on because we don't have a bookstore this week. And that's my fault.
- [32:21]
Kate
That's why he let me talk about it.
- [32:22]
Charlie
That's my fault. But I didn't know that we were going to be replaced it with the song Apple Blossom Time. I didn't know we were going to finish it. Do the prom stuff. Anyway. I don't remember your prom.
- [32:36]
Kate
I remember my senior prom. My date was 45 minutes late to pick me up and mom was pissed and so she let him in. But it was a cold. Like mom didn't have any interest in taking our picture. She was like, yeah, okay, bye. My junior year, I went with my junior year boyfriend whose name was Joey Rizzolo, who everybody loved. You could not love Joey Rizzol Low. And it was a great prom. But my senior prom was a little bit strange.
- [33:02]
Charlie
Well, I, I, I honestly don't remember what I if I had a good time or not. Although you challenged me to remember the girls and yeah, I do. Yeah, I do.
- [33:12]
Kate
Anyway, and we're gonna leave it at that.
- [33:14]
Charlie
We will have a bookstore for you next week. We thank Elizabeth Strout, we'll remind you who makes this podcast possible, and then we'll have a coda from Elizabeth Strout.
- [33:24]
Kate
The Book Case with Kate and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our Executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, Arielle Chester at Good Morning America, and Josh Cohan from ABC Audio. Follow the bookcase wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to listen, rate and review. If you'd like to find any of the books mentioned in this episode, we have the linked in the episode description
- [33:53]
Elizabeth Strout
I hope that when people read my work and this book, what I hope is that they just see for even two or three minutes life larger. They just get to step back and see it from a little bit of a distance with a little bit more compassion in their heart and then they go on their way.
- [34:16]
Charlie
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- [34:33]
Kate
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- [34:37]
Elizabeth Strout
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- [34:39]
Kate
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- [34:41]
Elizabeth Strout
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