J. Ryan Stradal Edits and Delivers

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Book Case

Episode: J. Ryan Stradal Edits and Delivers
Release Date: May 21, 2026
Host(s): Charlie Gibson, Kate Gibson
Main Guest: J. Ryan Stradal (author)

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Overview

This episode of The Book Case offers a rare front-row seat to the writing and editing process of a novel, featuring ongoing check-ins with acclaimed novelist J. Ryan Stradal. The hosts, Charlie and Kate Gibson, have been following Stradal through the multiyear journey of writing his fourth novel, tentatively titled Next Week, When Things Calm Down (due out in 2027, published by Atria). The conversation dives into the nuances of editorial collaboration, the emotional complexities of writing about personal loss, and the realities of surviving and thriving in the independent bookstore world.

The episode is divided between a candid chat with Stradal about his book’s development and an uplifting interview with Maile and Sean Smucker, owners of The Nook Gallery and Bookshop in Lancaster, PA.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Journey from Draft to Publication

Second Draft Milestone

• Stradal has completed a second draft and for the first time, feels genuinely proud of the work ("the first draft I'm proud of, which is probably a dangerous sign" - JR, 05:48).
• He describes this version as “95% of the way there”—signifying unusual confidence compared to past projects.

The Editorial Relationship

• Stradal emphasizes collaboration with his editor, Kate Nintzel at Atria.
• There’s a strong focus on being on the same thematic page before proceeding with changes (08:11).
• The editing process involves both removing unnecessary material and adding scenes that enhance character or setting.

Letting Go of Multiple Perspectives

• Initially, Stradal experimented with multiple points of view, including male characters, to broaden the story’s scope.
• Ultimately, both his agent and editor advised a return to a single perspective, centering the book exclusively on the main female character, Peggy—reflecting stronger, more immersive storytelling (09:19).
• “My main character’s point of view on her world is so peculiar and interesting… the whole time I was reading this other chapter, I just wanted to get back to Peggy's world.” (JR, 10:24)

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2. Writing as an Act of Remembrance

Inspiration: Stradal’s Mother

• The protagonist is based on Stradal's late mother, imagining her life if she’d lived beyond age 55 to pursue her literary ambitions.
• The revision process has brought his main character's voice closer to his mother’s, even if the plot itself has become more adventurous and whimsical.
  • “The character’s internal voice and voice in dialogue is closer to my mom. The action of the narrative, the plot, is further… it’s almost a fantasy novel, like a picaresque.” (JR, 11:08)
• Writing is both a tribute and a process of working through personal loss.

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3. Behind the Scenes of Editing

Stages of Manuscript Evolution (14:45)

• Stradal describes:
  • Big-picture thematic alignment with editor
  • Fine-tuning of scenes and characters
  • Surprising additions, not just cuts: For example, embedding scenes from a fictional 90s TV show, Flyover Country, to bolster setting realism (16:07).
  • “Sometimes both Pam and Kate have discerned there were things missing… I want to read about people watching the show and I want to hear conversations with people talking about the show.” (JR, 16:53)
• Editing involves collaborative creativity and direct feedback, often via Word documents loaded with specific margin notes—up to “a couple dozen per page" during intense sections (17:41).

The Weight of Language

• Stradal reveals a particular preoccupation with adjectives, especially in character-driven, close-third-person narration (20:31).
  • “Changing out Peggy’s adjectives would make her a different person… Adjective is extremely important because… adjective is a value judgment. Her value judgments inform her world.”

Copy-Editing Regimen

• The process is methodical with Stradal balancing work and parenting duties (18:34); tackles the manuscript in portions based on note density and scene weight.

When Is a Book “Done”?

• Even with a nearly finished draft, he expects tweaks “until we stop” (22:23).
• Multiple last-minute changes can be integrated, right up until the deadline.

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4. Independent Bookstore Spotlight

Interview: The Nook Gallery and Bookshop

• Owners Maile and Sean Smucker (25:33) share the origin story: a spur-of-the-moment idea that became reality when neither backed down.
  • “Wait a minute. So this store came about because neither one of you called the other's bluff?” (Charlie, 27:03)
• Despite initial worries about financial viability, the shop thrived—only for construction to block access four months in. Community support helped them survive a difficult year and a half.
• The Nook prioritizes community, recommending and acquiring books based on reader recommendations, book clubs, and events rather than just chasing new releases (29:38).
  • “A bookshop can’t just be about selling books. It’s really a community endeavor.” (Maile, 29:38)
• With the sidewalk finally reopened and the store expanded, they’re exceeding their numbers and see a bright future (30:46).

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5. Notable Quotes & Moments

• Confidence in Second Draft:
  “It’s the first draft I’m proud of… I think this, this is like 95% of the way there.”
  —J. Ryan Stradal (05:48)

• On Collaboration:
  “Getting that established early on in a meeting and finding out… do we see the same book here? … helps me also trust their notes.”
  —J. Ryan Stradal (08:11)

• Importance of Single POV:
  “The whole time I was reading this other chapter, I just wanted to get back to Peggy’s world.”
  —J. Ryan Stradal (10:24)

• On Adjectives:
  “Changing out Peggy’s adjectives would make her a different person… adjective is extremely important because your anecdote, Charles, just put the fear of God into me.”
  —J. Ryan Stradal (20:31)

• On Bookshops as Community Spaces:
  “A bookshop can’t just be about selling books. It’s really a community endeavor.”
  —Maile Smucker (29:38)

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6. Coda: Supporting Bookstores

• Stradal offers a “final thought” shoutout to Three Avenues Bookshop in Lakeview, Chicago, encouraging listeners to visit and meet its owners, underscoring his advocacy for indie bookstores:
  “Their heart’s in the right place and they’re doing wonderful hand sales. I plan to visit them the next time I’m in town, so please beat me there.”
  —J. Ryan Stradal (33:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|---------| | 05:37 | Start of interview with J. Ryan Stradal | | 07:00 | Stradal discusses submitting a draft before fully satisfied | | 09:05 | On moving from multiple POVs back to single POV | | 11:08 | On representing his mother through the protagonist | | 14:45 | Explaining the editing process and the role of notes | | 16:07 | Adding fictional TV show scenes at editor’s suggestion | | 17:41 | Detailed copy-editing process | | 20:31 | The power of adjectives in fiction | | 22:23 | “Are you done?”—on the finality of drafts | | 25:33 | Interview with Maile and Sean Smucker begins | | 29:38 | Bookstore as community hub | | 31:10 | The Nook Bookshop’s turnaround and growth | | 33:11 | J. Ryan Stradal’s bookstore recommendation |

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Tone and Language

Throughout this episode, the conversation is accessible, warm, and candid, living up to The Book Case’s ethos of making the literary world inviting for all. Stradal is self-deprecating, honest about the quirks and struggles of both writing and editing, and deeply respectful of the power of storytelling—not just for readers, but as a personal, even therapeutic act. The bookstore segment radiates grassroots optimism and humor, painting the business as a labor of love underpinned by committed readers.

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For Listeners Short on Time

• The episode provides unmatched insights into the realities of editing, the heartfelt motivations of an author writing from personal loss, and the importance of independent, community-driven bookstores—with memorable anecdotes and practical inspiration for writers, readers, and shop-owners alike.

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Books and Shops Referenced:

• Next Week, When Things Calm Down (forthcoming by J. Ryan Stradal)
• Atria (Publishing House), Kate Nintzel (editor)
• The Nook Gallery and Bookshop (Lancaster, PA)
• Three Avenues Bookshop (Lakeview, Chicago)

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Listen to this episode if you want to:

• Understand how a contemporary author refines a novel before publication.
• Hear about balancing creative vision with editorial feedback.
• Feel inspired by independent bookstore resilience and communal spirit.

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Transcript

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[Charlie]

Hello, bookcasers. Happy Thursday to you. It is Thursday. It is getting warm outside. So mothers and fathers out there, I know you're living with a mix of really, you know, extreme happiness because you can take the kids outside and extreme angst because school is about to let out, which just means you're about to have them all day, every day unless you have admitted them into camp ad nauseam. So welcome and happy beginning of summer. Sort of.

[Kate]

Yeah. It's. First of all, it's warmer where you are because you're up in Minnesota where it's been cold. But, you know, people south of the Mason Dixon line, it's been warm for a while.

[Charlie]

It has been warm for a while. And so. But you know, so you're already warm and you're still living with the dread of having your kids home all day, every day unless you put them in camps to affair thee well, so I include you, too.

[Kate]

It's not dread. It's not dread. You've got summer with the kids. Always wonderful. Although, as a friend of ours said, I love my kids eight hours a day.

[Charlie]

Yes. And now you've got eight hours a day. And now you get them for more.

[Kate]

Yep. Yep.

[Charlie]

And, yeah. And they expect food and shelter all the time.

[Kate]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlie]

You know.

[Kate]

Yeah. Especially shelter and. Yeah. And food, too.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Anyway, we're back with Jay Ryan Straddle, our writer in residence. It has been such a pleasure to do this with him. We started with him a couple years ago. Now, Kate. I would talk to him every few months as he. We started when he began his fourth novel. He now has it submitted and accepted by a publisher and it's not coming out till 2027. Now, that seemed like a long period of time to me. Sort of almost two years of lying fallow after it was picked by the publisher and an agreement to put it out. But it turns out there's an enormous amount still going on.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah. He's got lots of editing to do, spell checking to do, big notes, small notes, picturing of fonts, picturing of covers. Like there's a whole production mechanism that goes into it. And because this podcast has been sort of a masterclass in writing, we talk to writers so much about their craft and how they do what we do. We thought it would be good to get you guys a front row seat into somebody who was actually writing something as we spoke. And so that's where the writer in residence experiment came from.

[Kate]

Well, as you'll hear, he submitted his first well polished draft and that was what was accepted by the publisher, and he got an editor. And then it turns out there's a whole second draft that he wrote after the book was accepted by a publisher. It turns out there was a lot of change between that time that the publisher accepted the book and when it will eventually come out. He's now written the second draft and he has more to go, he said all the time working on the notes of his editor. Now you'll hear a number of names. The book is to be published by Atria and Kate Nintzel is his editor. So he'll talk a lot about Kate. He also talks about his past editor, Pam Dorman, with whom he had a wonderful relationship. Still does, I think, but decided to move to atria. And you'll also hear the name Ryan. That's Ryan Harbage, who is his agent, right?

[Charlie]

Yeah. Who's his agent and number one fan. And we've met Ryan on a couple of occasions, so you'll hear him drop some names. But again, this is just a really interesting front seat into the process of writing a novel. And I think it's important to remember from the beginnings of our conversation, Jay Ryan is writing a novel about a woman based on his mom. Unfortunately, his mom passed away, really as she had sort of started to launch her third act. She'd raised her kids and she was going to become a writer, and she passed away, unfortunately. And so this imagines her third act. And I think it's important to remember from our initial conversations, because she was starting in her third act. Jay Ryan did a lot of writing that was just to get to know the character that ended up on the cutting room floor. And now we talk about more things ending up on the cutting room floor. I wonder if Jay Ryan has written a whole novel that he's thrown away at this point. But it's a really interesting process to have a front row seat for. And we are so lucky that he agreed to participate in this experiment. So we hope you're enjoying it too,

[Kate]

especially the name of the book we should mention it will be called when it comes out in 2027 next week, when things Calm down, which is a lovely title, I think, but it is, as you said, all about his imagining the life that his mother would have led had she lived past the age of 55. Because she was his inspiration as a writer. She's the person who got him writing. He's been very successful now with three novels, starting with Kitchens of the Great Midwest. And now this will be next week, when things Calm down. So here's our conversation. Oh, I should mention, by the way, we're going to have a bookstore this week. We're going to have a bookstore, the Nook Gallery and Bookshop in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. We'll get to them. But we start with our update with Jay Ryan Straddle.

[Charlie]

Jay Ryan Straddle, it is such a pleasure to have you back in the bookcase. We hadn't checked in with you since you had gotten your newest work sold. And so now where are you?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

So less than a week ago, I finished the second draft, and it's the first draft I'm proud of, which is probably a dangerous sign. The first one where I feel like, okay, I more or less did what I set out to do. I met my expectations with this draft. I can't even honestly say I did that with a submission draft. I thought, this is pretty good, probably as good as I can make it, but I know it can be better. Whereas this draft, I feel like I think I finally did it. I think this, this is like 95% of the way there. Like, if this draft got published, I would not be ashamed of it. Kate at Atria, who I've been working with, has been phenomenal. She's been a remarkably collaborative editor. Her note's been very kind, but also very thoughtful. And with her guidance, I pounded this draft out in about a month. And, you know, I briefly had. This is the same story as, I think, Logger Queen, where I, I had for a time, male point of view characters, and they're gone now. So back to. And it's, it's actually just one point of view character the whole time, which is what I intended to do. I remember telling you about it when I was working on it. Like, this might just be one person's voice the whole time. And now this is back to that.

[Kate]

So you submitted a book for sale to a publisher who will determine your income for a couple of years hence if you weren't satisfied with it and you didn't think it was ready and still you sent it out.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Part of it was because I didn't know exactly what it needed Or I hadn't come around to that yet. I hadn't taken a long enough of a break from it. And that's part of what sending it out gives you, is it gives you some time to pause and think over, oh, wait a second. If I get another crack at this, here's what I'm going to do. I remember in some of my meetings with editors who are interested, we talked about those ideas. I would pitch them. Here's what I think I want to do with the book now that you might be interested in working on it with me. What do you think of these changes I'm suggesting? And often they would have their own changes. And so it became a dialogue as to how to help the book evolve.

[Kate]

But the editor doesn't do the writing. But he or she says, jay Ryan, straddle. Here's what you need to do, and then if you agree, you do it. That's more of an active participation by the editor than I think most people would think.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Yeah, and I think it's probably more than most people do. I do pretty substantive drafts with my editors, historically with Pam Dorman before this, very, very significant drafts, consequential changes throughout from draft to draft. And that's the case here as well. But when I met with Kate, as when I met with Pam initially, before Kitchens of the Great Midwest, we had a discussion about, what is this book about? Are we on the same page? Tell me what you think it's about, and I'll tell you. If I agree with you and if we're in agreement, then we know our notes will correspond and help the book evolve rather than just change direction. So I feel like getting that established early on in a meeting and finding out, like, do we see the same book here? Is really crucial to that relationship and helps me also trust their notes.

[Charlie]

It seems to me a really interesting process that you went from a single voice to multiple voices to single voices. How did that process. I know we. We've talked a little bit how you went from a single voice to multiple voices. Why pare it back down?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Both Kate and Ryan read that draft. Ryan's my agent, and it was my idea to add the other characters, points of view. And Kate agreed, like, let's give it a shot and see how it works. I told her what they would be and where they would go, and we tried it. And it was her opinion that they kind of slowed things down, that they didn't add enough and behave more like a detour than a feature. So, yeah, I thought I could explore some Thematic realms that my main character couldn't explore either through, you know, virtue of her location, age, and any of the variables that she encounters and engenders in the manuscript. So I kind of wanted to, you know, crack open the world a bit more through these other characters and give the reader insight into the world that my main character is in. But my main character's point of view on her world is so peculiar and interesting, at least to me, that I could see where Kate's coming from and saying, oh. The whole time I was reading this other chapter, I just wanted to get back to Peggy's world.

[Kate]

I want to go back in time a little bit for those listeners who haven't heard our previous conversations with you, and just to point out that this book is based on your mom, who died prematurely at the age of 55, having raised her boys for good or for ill, you being one of them. But she'd raised her boys. She was ready to get on with the rest of her life, and she didn't get to do it. And you are writing what you imagined that life could be and what it would be. So my question is, is this version a better reflection of your mom than you had the first time? Are you closer to her voice that you thought you could be? Does that aspect of the book get improved?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Wow. Yeah, I think so. The character's internal voice and voice and dialogue is closer to my mom. The action of the narrative, the plot is further, like, it's much more fantastic. It's almost a fantasy novel, like a picaresque. And I could see my mom doing these things, but it's less realistic than I perhaps, you know, even intended to write. It's a little more wonderful, I think, but I just kind of got carried away with it. I. I was having a great time sending this woman on adventures, and I thought, why stop? Let's keep ratcheting it up. Let's. Let's keep raising the stakes and.

[Maile Smucker]

And.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

And see how she rises to the challenge. In essence, I ended up telling a story of how my mother would have reacted to these incredible challenges and opportunities that would have been beyond her imagination. But were things that I felt like, oh, she very well could have, you know, could have handled competently, if not mastered just through simple acceptance. Yeah, it was a tremendously fun exercise in setting a very familiar character on a very unfamiliar journey.

[Charlie]

So how does this compare with what you've done before? When you've handed in second drafts in previous books, have you been this confident in them? And how does the notes process Compare.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Boy, that's a great question. I don't remember feeling this confident in the past at this point. I think Kate and I decided really early on on a trajectory and a point of view for this book. And her notes were, like I said, very collaborative. And I've always felt I can come to her at any time with, oh, hey, I'm working on this, or I'm changing this a little bit. And that's really helped my point of view. But more than the editor, more than the nature of the manuscripts themselves, I would say the biggest difference is I had this manuscript finished by the time Keith started working on it. So really, this is closer to my first editorial experience with Pam than the last two, where I sold those two books to Pam on partial submissions, and she and I were developing them before she even edited a finished manuscript. So this relationship with Kate and the nature of the note sessions are closer to my initial ones with Pam than the last two have been. Like, we're not building the structure anymore. We're laying down the carpeting and painting the walls. And that is probably easier and more fun for an editor, really.

[Charlie]

I would think the editor would want to have more of a say in, you know, and here's how we're going to end it.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

But, no, not in my experience, really. Okay. But once again, I've only worked with two editors, and I haven't worked on. Haven't worked with Kate on a manuscript in development yet. So I'm not sure. But this is closer to that in terms of feeling confident in early rewrites and feeling like, oh, this is on schedule, close to being done. Whereas the part of the issue with the. With Logger Queen and Supper Club were. I missed deadlines. And that's not like me. I had a hard time editing those books, and it was an anxious time for me. It was like, you know, it was also. It was Covid for one of the books. It was having a child. There was a lot going on. And in the. Amidst it all, I had this anxiety of feeling like I was disappointing my editor and disappointing myself by not meeting these deadlines. This one, it's been like kitchens again. It's been easy.

[Charlie]

Talk to me as a writer what the different passes are in terms of notes. What is different from what you just did, from what a copy at it would be like, do you start big and then go granular, or do you pick it apart as you go?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Like, what is the process with a completed manuscript? I think that's going to be more useful to a lot of listeners who are also writers. Since it's more uncommon to sell a book on a partial and develop it with an editor with a completed manuscript. You know what the ending is, so you have a good sense of the themes. You know, what is this book about? What is it about? About what are the subtexts? And you find yourself in agreement with the editor on all these things over a course of a conversation. And you can get that holistic sense down, get that North Star set for each other where you say, hey, if I'm ever lost in this revision, I always think this one sentence is always true. Like, think of this one sentence and if you're writing something and it's out of line with that imperative, reconsider it. So I feel like that's one step of it is, yeah, you get this holistic sense of the narrative that you agree upon, but with a completed manuscript, it's much more likely you're just going to be doing a lot of fine tuning. Perhaps. However, with both Kitchens and my new book next week, When Things Calm down,

[Charlie]

that's still the title.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Yeah, yeah. So far with. With both books, there were suggestions of ads like, I became very acclimated to the idea that, oh, working with an editor is just going to be about taking away. I'm going to give the editor this block of text and we're going to chisel it into this beautiful sculpture. Right? No. Sometimes both Pam and Kate have discerned there were things missing.

[Charlie]

I see.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Like this book. You know, you also need to add these scenes. How about you add a scene where X, Y and Z? For example, in my new book, there is a fictional TV show called Flyover Country. It's a very meatily condescending show about the Midwest written and created by someone from there who's had. Who has a bone to pick. And it's sort of like a cross between Beverly Hills 90210 and Gilmore Girls, if you can imagine that. All right. And it's in the late 90s, so everyone's watching it. Like, there's five things on and this is one of them. So it's huge. Everyone, it's water cooler talk. And one of Kate's big notes was, I want to see the show. Where are scenes from the show? I want to hear people talking about the show because for me, it was all anecdotal. I mentioned it throughout, but she said, no, I want to.

[Maile Smucker]

I want.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

I want to read about people watching the show and I want to hear conversations with people talking about the show. The next Day I was like, wow, I didn't expect that. I thought it was like this trifling kind of thing in the background. But Kate really wanted to bring that out and say, hey, you know, we're talking. This book is set in the late 90s for a reason. This is one thing that could strengthen that relationship with its setting. And what's more, you know, you've created the show. It's made me wonder, okay, what is it about what's going on with this? So dramatize it. And that was probably the biggest change in this draft, was making that show a character and making it something that the characters interacted with. And it was a lot of fun, actually.

[Charlie]

So copy edits. Does she literally break down individual paragraphs? Is it page by page?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

It's a word doc with a whole bunch of sidebar notes.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Like. Like up to a couple dozen per page. Really? Yeah, particularly early on. Like on the more scrutinized pages, there may be pages later on, like page 222 might have no notes. But quite often in moments that. Where the. There's heavier lifting narratively, particularly at the beginning when everything's being established, or closer to the end, or in dramatic moments, there might be a lot. And just in terms of fine tuning these scenes, is this being told as well as it could? As efficiently as it could? Yeah, quite often the notes were oriented around those concerns from, from what I remember. And of course, like we still catch spelling errors. You know, I. I've only read this book a hundred times and I must have read the. Just glossed over the same spelling error each time.

[Charlie]

What's the process of a copy edit day? Like?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

I've never been asked questions like this before. It's great for me. I'll typically, once I get a sense of when it's due, you know, I'll concoct some kind of work life balance. Yeah. In conjunction with. With Brooke, who, you know, shoulders a little bit more of the co parenting responsibility during periods where I'm working and we'll get our schedule straight. I'll schedule with her first and then I'll look at the time allotted to me and say, okay, I'm going to have eight hours a day on days he's in school and maybe four to six hours on days he's not our son. And what can I get done in that amount of time? And then just portion it out. And I know in the past I've had books with really heavy scenes, you know, supper club in particular, where I've thought that Needs to be its own day. This book doesn't have that. So I'm able to work a little freer in terms of portioning the workload less sentimentally and just saying, okay, like pages one through 40 or 40 through 60 without regard for the content of those pages. That said, like 1 through 5 might be its own day. You know, then 5 through 10, and then later on it might be like 2, 220 to 260 is a day. So yeah, it'll really depend on the. On. On where the notes are weighted. But yeah, I'll portion it out and, you know, treat it like a day at work.

[Kate]

What part of speech is most important to you in terms of the words you use? And I ask that because I cover the Watergate trials, Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell, Marty and Parkinson with a wonderful writer for the Washington Post named George Lardner. And he came in one day obviously perturbed. And I said, what, what's wrong? And he said, they changed my adjectives. Like, that was a cardinal sin. Do you worry about specific parts of speech and what's the right word here? And what's the most important part of speech to you?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Wow. Considering I write close third, the voice of the character is tantamount to me, just the absolute most important variable in the storytelling. So I could argue every part, but given that it's voice, adjective is extremely important because your anecdote, Charles, just put the fear of God into me. Like, changing out Peggy's adjectives would make her a different person, you know, someone. Because an adjective is a value judgment. Her value judgments inform her world. They. They describe to the reader how she sees the world. So in a, in a voice driven narrative like mine, it's adjective.

[Kate]

Are you done or will there be significant changes from the second draft? And how late can you go in the development process?

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Oh, in the past, I've gone pretty late in tweaking things. Up until the final, final minute, I'd say I'm about 90% there. It feels like that to me. I. We'll see whether Kate agrees. But like I said before, if this draft got published, I'd be fine with it. I think it can still be a little better. I know there are parts of this draft that still feel like a first draft to me because they are there. There are scenes, like I. Like I said, I handed in the book on Friday the 8th. There were scenes I wrote on Thursday the 7th that are in there that, yeah, they could use another pass. That came out of a conversation with Brooke about how to change certain elements or how to make them more efficient, you know. Cause I was reading the book to Brooke that weekend. At the end of that week, she said, well, here's. Here's what I think you could try to do. And so I hurriedly did. Did them all at the final minute. And so, yeah, that could use some maturation. But, yeah, it's as far as ever. But that said, we'll keep tweaking with it until we stop.

[Charlie]

I love checking in with you and seeing where you are. It's a fascinating process. Thank you again for taking time. And thank you again to Brooke for putting up with you. Oh, yeah, I always worth an extra thank you in there.

[Kate]

Well, I thank you. I thank you for being our writer in residence because this has been fascinating to go through the process with you. And even in this instance, it's really interesting to find out where you are and how this editing process actually works.

[Charlie]

God, I love talking to Jay Ryan Straddle. And I think he is unique in the sense that he's my age, which doesn't mean he's young, doesn't mean he's old. But he's one of the only male writers that I know that I think writes. He does his best writing from the female perspective. And I think that is absolutely an influence from his mother. I think that speaks incredibly to the relationship that they had. And I love that as a woman, to find a man who writes women so well. And he. And so I'm really excited to read this one. I'm excited to read all of Jay's work, but I'm really excited to read this one.

[Kate]

Well, we should admit we haven't read it.

[Charlie]

No, we haven't.

[Kate]

We haven't. But we have talked to people who did read that first draft who say it's the best work he's ever done. And. And that's. And that's pretty good. And he still felt he needed to write a second draft and now he's going to even go further with notes on that. So, as we say, there's a whole lot still going on before the book gets published. In the summer of 2027, we'll take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk to Miley and Sean Smucker, who are the owners of Nook's Gallery and Bookshop in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. We'll be back.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Foreign.

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[Sean Smucker]

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[Kate]

We're back with Maile and Sean Smucker, the owners of the Nook, the bookshop in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And we started by asking them, why did you do this?

[Maile Smucker]

The basic story is that we have six kids, and our youngest was just going off to kindergarten or had just gone off to kindergarten. Miley was sort of trying to figure out, you know, she's a writer, I'm a writer. But she was trying to figure out what she was going to do with her days. And I saw on Instagram that a local bookshop was closing, and so I sent her a text, honestly, in jest, hey, you know, what do you think we should. What do you think about buying a bookshop? And she immediately texts me back, very excited. And I thought, what have we gotten ourselves into? And that was the beginning.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

And so, Sean, you didn't write her back and said, I was kidding. Yeah, that text. That text didn't happen.

[Sean Smucker]

No. Because Sean, our whole married life, he keeps doing this. He keeps wanting to move off to exotic islands, and he always has an idea like, oh, we should try this. Oh, we should do this. So this was so on brand for him that I think he probably was so used to me being like, hmm, I don't think so, that he just assumed that's what it was gonna be. And then when I texted back and was like, yeah, yes, please, let's do this, he was like, oh, all right. She actually took one. All right, we'll do it.

[Charlie]

Wait a minute. So this store came about because neither one of you called the others bluff?

[Maile Smucker]

Yeah, it does seem that way.

[Sean Smucker]

It does, actually.

[Maile Smucker]

The timing has been a challenge, you know, because we still have two smaller kids who are 9 and 11. And so they, you know, they have a lot going on in their lives. We've got two kids in high school and two in college. So 10 years from now, maybe our schedules would be a little clearer. But, you know, it. It really was a great situation. And it. And so we were like, why not? Let's do it.

[Sean Smucker]

So we opened the shop in May of 2024, and we were open for about four months, and it was going really well. When Sean first told me, like, what our numbers would need to look like when we opened the doors, I was like, there's no way that we are going to get people to spend a couple hundred dollars per day buying books. Like, that's never going to happen, but all right, we're going to try it. And it started, like, pretty much off the bat. Like, we started, like, kind of meeting our numbers, and then four months in the sidewalk leading up to our shop was closed by the city because they were doing a huge building project, like, two doors down from us. And that.

[Maile Smucker]

That was a hard blow because people could no longer continue all the way down our street. They were directed across the street. And then there was no real easy way to get back to our side. So if people were coming to our shop, they were pretty much coming just specifically to our shop. They were looking for us. And so that. Yeah, so that happened four months in, and it lasted for about a year and a half. It was a real, real struggle.

[Sean Smucker]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Whoa.

[Sean Smucker]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Whoa. So did you do market research? Does Lancaster, Pennsylvania, need a bookshop? Did you go to some kind of online class or whatever about how to run a bookshop? How did you relate to how to order books, et cetera?

[Charlie]

They're like, well, we should have.

[Sean Smucker]

We were like, this is just gonna be so much fun. And you know what? It really has been. It feels like our shelves are really about community. Like, it's. It's a community effort of what you're seeing on our shelves. Sure, we have, like, new releases and things like that, but that's not our, like, main priority. Our main priority is just having really good books like that people are going to talk about, because that's. That's how we learn about them. We learn about them from the people who come in through our doors and tell us about. I say, what. What have you read lately that you just. You've loved? And people will. If they love a book, they'll talk about it. And that's how I think you know what a good book is. I don't know, so that's kind of, that's kind of been our, our tactic.

[Maile Smucker]

And also, you know, we, we learned very early on that a bookshop can't just be about selling books. It's really a community endeavor. And it's, it's a community coming around a location and saying, we think this is important because we can get our books cheaper online, we can get our books faster online. But we value this space of community, of coming together, a place where we can come and talk about ideas.

[Sean Smucker]

And as we started putting, like, start doing events and doing book clubs and things, and our community was responding. Like Lancaster, they have such a passion for supporting mom and pop shops, and we're so grateful for it. So it feels like in many ways the bookshop is our way of contributing to that, that mission that I think that Lancaster as a community has.

[Kate]

So you have two kids in college, people had to walk across the street for a year and a half and dodge the front loaders or whatever to get to you with all of that. Have you met Sean's numbers? I don't want to get specific, but have you met Sean's numbers?

[Maile Smucker]

Yeah, we've, we've far exceeded them at this point. We actually. Yeah, yeah. So when the sidewalk opened, it was about the same time that we doubled our size as a store. So we acquired a back room that is about 30 by 30, and it's got this beautiful windows. So we filled that with shelves, expanded into the back, and we're well above what we had hoped for.

[Kate]

Oh, that's great. That's great. Well, if pure enthusiasm will sell a store, you guys have it.

[Charlie]

Miley and Sean, thank you so much for talking to us. We always love talking to bookstore owners. And I'm so glad that you are clearing the hurdles with room to spare. May you have many, many more years of success.

[Maile Smucker]

Thank you both so much. It's really a pleasure.

[Sean Smucker]

Yes, thank you.

[Charlie]

Thank you. The Smuckers, I can't. Every time I think about them, I always think of that slogan in the 80s from the Jam, the name, like Smuckers, it has to be good. So these people and I, I love consummate readers who run bookstores. That's just, you know, most of them are.

[Kate]

I love the fact she, she, they have six kids and she was wondering what she was going to do with her time. So, so they bought a bookstore. Who's got time. And they're consummate readers. Who's got time to read, much less.

[Charlie]

I don't know.

[Kate]

The bookstore.

[Charlie]

Yes.

[Kate]

Anyway, we'll catch up on who makes this podcast possible. It's it hasn't changed. It's the same people, but we are very grateful to them. And then we'll have a final word from Jay Ryan.

[Charlie]

And the final word from Jay Ryan, I think is just worth noting. It's a bookstore that he's he's as big a believer in independent bookstores as we are. He has recently fallen in love with one that, of course is selling the heck out of his book. So he wrote them and they wrote him back. And that's where the coda comes from.

[Kate]

The Bookcase With Kate and Charlie is a joint production of Good Morning America and ABC Audio. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions and our executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make special mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, and Ariel Chester of ABC Good Morning America and Josh Cohan of ABC Audio. You can follow us and rate and review this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like to find any of the books mentioned on this podcast, you can find them listed in the episode description.

[Jay Ryan Stradal]

Final Thought if you're in the Chicago area, please swing by Three Avenues Bookshop in Lakeview. It's a new store owned by a married couple. Their heart's in the right place and they're doing wonderful hand sales. I plan to visit them the next time I'm in town, so please beat me there. Meet the owners, Tim and Jordan, and check out a new bookstore. Chicago.

[Kiana]

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