Karissa Chen Brings Us A Chinese Love Story

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Book Case – "Karissa Chen Brings Us A Chinese Love Story"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Book Case
• Hosts: Charlie Gibson & Kate Gibson
• Episode: Karissa Chen Brings Us A Chinese Love Story
• Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 9, 2025 episode of The Book Case, hosts Charlie and Kate Gibson delve into the intricacies of Carissa Chen's debut novel, Home Seeking. This episode explores the novel's rich narrative, complex characters, and the historical backdrop of political unrest in China. Through an engaging conversation with Carissa Chen, listeners gain insights into her creative process, the challenges of writing a first-time novel, and the profound themes embedded within the story.

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Overview of "Home Seeking"

Home Seeking is a sweeping love story that spans several decades, weaving personal relationships against the tumultuous political landscape of China from the 1940s to 2010. The novel follows the lives of two protagonists, Hai Wen and SUU Kyi, whose love is tested by separation and the upheavals of their homeland. As the narrative unfolds, readers are taken on a journey through Shanghai, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, witnessing the characters' enduring bond and the impact of historical events on their destinies.

Key Themes:

• Separation and Longing: The protagonists are torn apart by geopolitical forces, highlighting the personal costs of political turmoil.
• Destiny and Choice: Explores how external circumstances shape individual destinies and the lives we do not get to lead.
• Resilience and Hope: Despite decades of separation, the characters maintain hope for reunion, reflecting human resilience.

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In-Depth Interview with Carissa Chen

a. Genesis of the Story At [05:24], Carissa Chen shares that the inspiration for Home Seeking began in 2005 upon discovering a poignant photograph of her grandfather crying at his mother's grave in Shanghai. This image ignited her desire to uncover the untold stories of millions separated by the Chinese Civil War. Chen's research revealed the heartbreaking reality of over two million people fleeing to Taiwan, often leaving behind loved ones.

b. Writing Process and Structure Chen, described as a "pantser" (someone who writes by the seat of their pants), discusses her non-linear approach to structuring the novel. Initially envisioning a short story, the narrative organically expanded into a 488-page novel. She drew inspiration from the musical The Last Five Years by Jason Robert Brown, adopting its alternating timeline structure to parallel the protagonists' divergent journeys. This unconventional structure posed challenges, but Chen emphasizes the importance of fighting for her creative vision to effectively convey the characters' evolving lives.

Notable Quote:

"Everything can be okay in the present, but does that mean that they wish that something could have changed?"
— Carissa Chen [10:58]

c. Themes and Characters The novel centers on Hai Wen, a talented violinist whose aspirations are thwarted by war, and SUU Kyi, whose life is similarly disrupted. Their stories interweave personal loss with broader historical events, creating a tapestry of love, sacrifice, and enduring hope. Chen highlights how music serves as Hai Wen's medium for expression, symbolizing the connection between past and present emotions.

d. Challenges as a First-Time Novelist Chen candidly discusses the self-doubt and pressure of accurately portraying a lesser-known historical period. Extensive research was crucial to ensure authenticity in depicting the Chinese Civil War's impact on individuals. Overcoming the fear of inadequacy, she persevered by focusing on each chapter individually, allowing the story to unfold naturally.

e. Author's Inspirations and Influences Chen credits literary figures such as Eileen Chang, Madeleine Thien, Vladimir Nabokov, Anne Carson, and Edwidge Danticat as significant influences. These authors inspired her through their mastery of language, narrative complexity, and emotional depth.

f. Final Thoughts and Takeaways Chen aspires for readers to cultivate empathy towards immigrants and refugees, recognizing the resilience required to rebuild lives in new environments. She emphasizes the universal desire for a life of dignity and fulfillment, beyond mere survival.

Notable Quote:

"If anybody comes away from this novel feeling like they understand that a little bit more and feeling a little bit more open to that, then I will feel satisfied."
— Carissa Chen [20:28]

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Conclusion

Charlie and Kate Gibson commend Home Seeking for its ambitious scope and heartfelt narrative. They highlight Chen's ability to balance complex historical contexts with deeply personal storytelling, making the novel both compelling and accessible. The hosts express eagerness to explore more of Chen's work and anticipate her future contributions to literature.

Notable Quote from Hosts:

"I can't wait to read what she writes next."
— Kate Gibson [27:25]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Carissa Chen on Writing Inspiration:

   "I was kind of haunted by it. Growing up, I had known that he had been separated from his family...I wanted to know more about the history behind this."
   [05:39]

2. On Story Structure:

   "Listening to The Last Five Years...it struck me. I think this is the right structure for this book."
   [08:40]

3. On Reader Takeaway:

   "We just want to have a life worth something and, like, full of dignity."
   [20:28]

4. Hosts on the Novel’s Complexity:

   "You can handle a novel with this many complex themes and this complexity of structure."
   [27:49]

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Final Thoughts

Home Seeking by Carissa Chen emerges as a poignant exploration of love, separation, and resilience set against the backdrop of significant historical upheaval. Through her intimate portrayal of Hai Wen and SUU Kyi, Chen invites readers to reflect on the enduring human spirit and the complexities of navigating life's unpredictable paths. The Book Case episode offers a thorough and engaging examination of this remarkable debut novel, making it a must-listen for literature enthusiasts seeking depth and emotional resonance in storytelling.

Transcript

[Kate]

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[Charlie]

Well, welcome, boys and girls. Good to have you back with us. This is the bookcase with Kate and Charlie, and we got a good book for you. But before we get to that, Kate, why don't you say hi.

[Kate]

Hello, boys and girls and cats and kittens and dogs and puppies and I don't know whoever else might be listening. It's good to be here. 2025. This is our first book of the new year, and we have a good one for you. I hope that you're willing to let us a book that's a little bit of an adventure. It's called Home Seeking. It's by Carissa Chen, and it was a book that had me right from the introduction. So I loved it and I was really excited to talk to her about this book.

[Charlie]

Well, there's a lot of themes in this book, and we'll run some of them down in a minute. But basically it's about two characters. And I right away got fascinated by the two characters, about the way they were meeting, about their you see them at the beginning when they're very young. And I thought, I really like these two. There are books where you find characters that you really get into. Just Richard Osmond last week when we were talking about what makes a good book, character, character, character, he said. But this has got character and plot, and it is a unconventional plot that you might think potentially could be confusing. And yet the writer, Carissa Chen, pulls it off perfectly. And you are never confused about where you are and what's going on.

[Kate]

No, you're right. It's a story as old as time. It's a love story that goes decades and decades and decades. And yet it's told over the political unrest of China from the 1940s. It goes to about 2008, doesn't it? 2010. So it spans decades. And she does amazing things with the structure of this book as well. But again, it's a love story between two amazing characters. But it's also about the destinies we do not get to have or choose because of political unrest and the nations to which we are born.

[Charlie]

It's about Separation. The two characters are Hai Wen and SUU Kyi. And you meet them at the beginning. They fall in love when they're teenagers. And then because the communists are taking over China, they live in Shanghai. They get separated. He winds up in Taiwan, she goes to Hong Kong. How they get there is an interesting part of the plot. And they long for each other for years and years and years. And then she tells you right away they're going to get back together. Not till they're in their 70s, but it's going to happen for them. And yet how they get there, how they change. There are so many different themes in this book. It's historical in that you see the communists take over in the late 1940s of China, which requires to stay safe, both Haiwen and SUU Kyi leaving Shanghai. There's a longing for the first love because they are each each other's first love.

[Kate]

They are torn from their own families, they are torn from their parents. You know, Hai Win is a wonderful violinist, but that is a destiny he never gets to fulfill because he is sent to war. It really is about the longing of the destinies that we do not get to fulfill and how much time we spend focusing on the past and what might have been and how do we move forward from that.

[Charlie]

And what's most impressive to me, as good as both Kate and I thought this book is, it's a first time novel. And she will tell you that the spark came for her in 2005 when she began to realize that her grandfather had been separated for years and years and years from his family. And then she saw a picture of him when he was finally able to come back to China and he was kneeling at his mother's grave and crying because he had been separated like millions of Chinese from his family when the communists took over.

[Kate]

So it's a good book and I learned so much. I wasn't, I mean, I wasn't as aware as I should have been of the history of Taiwan and how complicated it was that people had to send their families to safety in Hong Kong and Taiwan. And Karissa Chen tells some amazing stories in our interview that she learned through her research about people that were torn from the people that they love because of the internal unrest in China. And again, I want to say to our listeners before we get to this interview, yes, she's a first time novelist and the scope of this novel is big and she does amazing things with the structure. But this book is compulsively readable because again, as my father says, it is essentially a love story between two amazingly deep, well drawn characters that will suck.

[Charlie]

You in and who come to their reuniting when they're in their 70s with totally different paths to get there. So without further ado.

[Kate]

There's been much ado.

[Charlie]

Yes, we've been doing much. Here's Carissa Chen and our conversation with her about her book, Home Seeking.

[Kate]

Carissa, Chet, it is an honor to have you in the bookcase. We loved Home Seeking. There is so much that is going on in this book. The structure, the story. What was it first for you? What was the hook that got into your skin that wouldn't let go?

[Carissa Chen]

Yeah, so the genesis of this story actually started in 2005, right after my grandfather had passed away. We were going through his things and we found a photograph of him crying in front of his mother's grave in Shanghai. And I had never seen my grandfather like that. You know, he was kind of a more, you know, sort of what you would think of a Chinese man who kept his vulnerabilities inside. And so to see him like that weakened and like clearly just like so heartbroken, it really struck me. And I was, you know, I was kind of haunted by it. Growing up, I had known that he had been separated from his family when he was quite young, when he was 19, and I had some vague recollection of him going back to Shanghai when I was 12 or so. And it was somewhat of a big deal, but I wasn't sure why. So now as an adult, I was like, wait, I really want to know more about the history behind this. I want to know, like, what is the context of this story? Why would you ever be separated from your parents for that long? And I started to do the research into, you know, the Chinese Civil War. And I found out that, you know, over 2 million people were like him and had fled from China to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War. And a lot of them were separated from, like lovers, from kids, from, from, you know, parents. And it was a really heartbreaking time. And so that was sort of the genesis of this whole thing. But I always knew that I wanted to write about this.

[Charlie]

I'm always fascinated by first time novelists and how, how difficult that must be to be a first time novelist and then to take 20 years to get from picture to publication. Tell me about it.

[Carissa Chen]

In some ways I felt like, who am I to tell this story? I didn't live during that time period. I didn't know if I had the right or if I would be able to pull it off not having lived during that time. So in the very beginning, I started just writing personal essays about what I thought was happening with my grandfather. Then I sort of dipped my toe into short stories. I wrote a bunch of short stories about different stories, little anecdotes that I had found during my research. And funnily enough, I thought that this novel was going to be a short story. I know. Hilarious.

[Kate]

You failed.

[Charlie]

You failed.

[Carissa Chen]

I totally failed.

[Charlie]

Short story to 488 pages. That's an interesting transition in itself.

[Carissa Chen]

I know. I wrote the first 100 pages in four sleepless nights. I barely slept. I was so taken by this. And at around the 30 page mark, I thought, well, okay, this could be a novella. That's fine. And then at around 80 pages, I was like, oh. And when I hit 100, I stalled out because I was like, oh, no. This is much bigger than I thought it was gonna be.

[Kate]

It involves this very evolved love story between Hywin and Tsu Ki. But it is an ambitious first novel because, I mean, you have timelines, one going forwards, one going backwards. You have multiple languages. You have, in the US at least, you have audiences that aren't necessarily comfortable with changing names, changing timelines. So once you get this hook that won't let you go, how did you go about building the plaque around the story? And did you write them in order and then break them up or how was that process?

[Carissa Chen]

I actually wrote different parts at different points in time. Like, the Hong Kong chapters are very early on. Beyond the prologue, the opening chapter, the first chapter I wrote very first. And, you know, the coda I wrote actually pretty early also. You know, I had all these parts. And what I realized was I really needed a structure. I'm someone who's very driven by structure. It helps me sort of figure out what I'm doing. And I did not know the structure for this book. I was like, well, it's not linear because I'm not writing it linearly. So what is it? I was stalled out on that for quite a few months. And I was at a writing residency and listening to a lot of music because music is very important to me. And I was listening to the musical the Last Five Years by Jason Robert Brown, which is a two person musical. It's about a divorce. And it starts with the woman singing about, like, you know, the end of her marriage, and then the next song is the husband singing about their very first date. And it kind of alternates like that, where the woman is going backwards in time in their relationship and the man is going forwards, and they meet in the middle when they get married. And so I was listening to this a few times, and suddenly it struck me. I was like, wait. I think this is the right structure for this book because it also echoes the themes that I'm trying to portray in terms of how these two characters deal with the shifting changes in their lives. And I kind of tried it out. I sort of slotted what I had already into some of the pieces, and it started to work.

[Charlie]

But as I read it, I kept thinking, this is immensely difficult, what she's doing. Taking character from the present to the past and one from the past to the current, with their timelines crossing at one point, you foreshadow at the beginning that even though these two characters fall in love as youngsters, they're going to get together again in their very late in life. And I wondered why you did that, why you didn't leave us in suspense as to whether they were going to get together or why you decided to tell me as a reader in advance. It's going to come out okay. They're going to be together again. Don't worry about them. How they get there is going to be my story. But I'm curious as to why you made that decision to let us know at the beginning that they would eventually reunite.

[Carissa Chen]

I think because to me, this story was less about, like, the will they, won't they? I think to me, what I was really curious to explore was, well, okay, you know, there is a second chance. Do we regret what has happened in the intervening years? You know, when we look back upon what has happened, just because things turned out okay in the end, does it make all the middle, like, worth it? Is it okay? You know, like, could we have changed anything? And I think I'm somebody who looks back on things a lot, and I'm pretty optimistic. So I tend to think, like, well, as long as I'm not dead, you know, everything is fine. And so how could things have unfolded otherwise? But I think, you know, for these two characters, where so much has happened to them, so much has been taken away from them, that's the question of their lives, right? Like, everything can be okay in the present, but does that mean that they wish that something could have changed? Does that mean that they could have taken another path? That they would have taken another path? And I was really curious about how people deal with the past of their lives, you know, what has happened in their lives that they've had no control over.

[Kate]

So central to this book are these two Characters Hywin and SUU Kyi, you have to, you know, you live with them throughout the decades. You live with them for almost 500 pages. How did you as an author go about pulling these characters apart and getting to know them so that you could write them so intimately?

[Carissa Chen]

So I'm a pantser when I write.

[Kate]

You are.

[Carissa Chen]

I am a pantser for the most part. I do sometimes eventually have to do a light outline when things are getting unwieldy, but I mostly let myself discover. And so these characters presented themselves to me on the page as I was writing. I did not know going in, for instance, that Hyewin was going to be a violinist, which is so funny now because it's so central. And so, you know, at that time it was just like, okay, there are two old people, I don't know anything about them. And like, we'll see. And then when I got to the young chapters, you know, I was sort of thinking about this man that he becomes and the kind of person he becomes where he's very backwards looking and kind of interior. And I thought about how music is something that, you know, really brings us back to a specific time and a place in our lives. You know, like if I listen to a song from when I was a teenager, I'm immediately transported to the way I was feeling at the time and what was going on in my life at the time. And I thought, okay, clearly like music would be like a perfect way for this man to express himself, to move through this world, to understand the world. And it just sort of naturally popped up on the page as I was writing about it. I was like, well, he's a violinist. Oh, of course, that makes perfect sense. So I just ran with it. So like, you know, I love that part of writing. I love when I'm writing and I get to discover these people for myself.

[Charlie]

You're a first time novelist and I can't imagine how self doubt must consume you as you write over 20 years. So tell me about that. Did you at times think, oh, this isn't gonna work, this is not gonna come to fruition?

[Kate]

Well, and again, you did not write. This is not a C spot run novel. This has so much complexity. Like, were there times where you're like, wow, I've been overly ambitious and how did you get over those times of like, what am I doing?

[Carissa Chen]

Absolutely. I mean, I had no idea what I was doing half the time. I felt like. And I think for me, the biggest thing for me to get over was my feeling like I couldn't write about this time period that I had lived through. You know, I had never tried to write anything historical to this extent. And I felt a lot of responsibility to get it right, you know, especially it being a time period, a history that I think is lesser known in the West. I was like, I have to get this right. I need to make sure that I, I know everything that is going on at the time, but also like, I would get really caught up in details and be like, you know, I need to make sure the clothing is right and like the food is right and all these things. Once I did enough research that I felt confident that I had the background, then it was a little bit easier for me to move forward. But of course, like throughout the process, I was still like, what am I? You know, is this even working? I don't know if like, this is working the way I want it to. I will say I did not think too much about how ambitious I was being. Cause I just sort of had blinders on and I was like, okay, gotta write the next chapter. Like I kind of just looked at it in chunks and was just focusing on the individual chapters. And it's really funny that you keep telling me that I wrote a really ambitious novel because I had no ambition. I was just like, I guess this is just what it needs to be and I'm just gonna do it. And it just seemed like this is what the novel needed to be.

[Charlie]

And we'll interrupt this for just a moment, let you know who makes this podcast possible financially and then we'll be back talking more to Carissa Chen.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Kate]

I was hooked on your book before you to plot because I loved your introduction, which I feel like in some ways acknowledges the ambition that you had in writing this book. You basically say, look, I'm going to take you on a journey, and it's not going to be an uncomplicated journey because you're probably not familiar with Chinese. And then maybe the Chinese character is going to be named a different name in Taiwan. And so first of all, I read the intro thinking, oh God, this book is going to be confusing. And so I'd like to say to listeners at home, it actually isn't. It's incredibly clear, even though she acknowledges her ambition during the intro. So I'm interested as to when the introduction became a part of the book and was it you sort of taking a step back and going, damn, I have been ambitious. I need to let readers know what they're in for.

[Carissa Chen]

I think I wrote that introduction, which used to be much longer, but I wrote the introduction probably when I was 3/4 of the way finished. And I think it wasn't so much that I was trying to signal my ambition, but because I know that language is political and I know that, you know, a lot of times we are used to reading things where Things are pretty straightforward. But in this situation, I felt very strongly about using the names as they would have encountered them. You know, that our identities shift, and therefore our names shift. You know, and this is very common for new immigrants. I think they come to America, they're told, like, their language is too. Their name is too hard to pronounce or too hard for people to remember. And they're like, okay, well, I'll just, you know, call me Bob. You know, you remember that. And suddenly their identity is just changed with just, like, that one, like brushstroke. And, you know, these are people who move to various places and keep having to have their names changed and how disorienting that must be, you know. And I felt also very strongly that I was not going to define every single word that was gonna pop up that wasn't familiar to readers, because there's just some words that I was like, it's not gonna be the same if I translate it in English. It's just. There's no word for that, or there's no concept for that, or just doesn't capture what it feels like. And to recognize that this is what the book is about and that if you have never experienced this feeling before of disorientation because of language, then you are living a privileged life. And, you know, maybe it would be okay for you to feel a little bit unmoored for a moment.

[Charlie]

One of the things that the authors that we used in our how to Write a Novel podcast kept talking about is what they wanted their readers to take away when they put down the book. What do you want a reader to take away when they put down home seeking?

[Carissa Chen]

You know, I think that one of the things that I thought about was that even though this book is about specific characters from a specific point in history, that their situation, what they have to deal with, is something that is still really relevant today. You know, we still have a lot of immigrants and refugees and people who are trying to make a better life or escape impossible situations from their homelands, and they have to go to new places and start anew and, you know, figure out what home means in that context and who they are in that context and how difficult and how heartbreaking that is, you know, how brave it is also, and resilient. If anybody takes anything from this book, I hope it's to be a little bit more empathetic to those situations, for us to be a little bit more generous to these people, because we don't know what they've been through. We don't know what they have gone through to be here, what they continue to go through every day to survive where they are and how hard they are trying to make make it here, you know, and I don't mean that in sort of like this like American dream kind of way, but I mean, like in a real, like, beyond survival, you want to be able to live. Like that's what we all want, right? We want to have a life. We don't want to just survive. We want to have a life that we can look back upon and feel like was full and fruitful and something worth worthwhile looking back upon. And I think that's what, you know, Hyewin and SUU Ki are doing. And I think that's what people who are in this country or, you know, wherever they migrate to are trying to do. They just want to have a life worth something and, like, full of dignity. And I think we should all be a little bit more empathetic to that. So if anybody comes away from this novel feeling like they understand that a little bit more and feeling a little bit more open to that, then I will feel satisfied.

[Kate]

It's one of the most beautiful things to me about the book is the conversation between Samson and SUU Kyi. And SUU Kyi says, what have I really done with my life? I haven't done anything. And he said, you've survived and that is everything. It's a beautiful book. Carissa Chen, thank you so much.

[Carissa Chen]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation.

[Charlie]

Some rapid fire questions for Carissa Chen, of other writers, who has been the greatest influence on you?

[Carissa Chen]

Ooh, that is a big question. I will say Eileen Chang was a big influence on this book. Madeline Theon's book, Do not say we have Nothing was huge for me. Nabokov for his language. God, I could go on forever and I know I shouldn't. So I'll also say Anne Carson, autobiography of Red was really big. And Edwidge Danticat. Okay, I'll stop there.

[Kate]

So I love reading author's notes. In author's notes, you give a shout out to George Penny. I want to give you a chance to shout out George Penny during the podcast. Go ahead.

[Carissa Chen]

Oh, my sixth grade teacher, just like an amazing man, taught me so much about, like, just everything. But in specific, we had this creative writing unit and, you know, I would spend my recesses writing and at the end of the year there is a creative writing award and I had always hoped I would win it, but, you know, I was like, there must Be people who are better than me. And I actually won it. And he wrote this beautiful, lovely inscription in the book he gave me, and he was just like, you know, I think we'll be hearing more from you. Like, you have a voice and you should use it. And I hope I've done you proud, Mr. Penny, because I will always remember that. Thank you so much, Mr. Penny.

[Kate]

Mr. Penny. I've read it. She did do you proud.

[Charlie]

The greatest risk you feel you took with this book, the thing that nagged at you, the thinking, I've taken a risk here am I making it pay off?

[Carissa Chen]

Nervous laughter, everything. I think the structure was one of the things that I was worried wouldn't pay off, because I know it's unconventional, and I knew that by doing so, I was giving a lot away and taking. Possibly taking out a lot of the tension from the book. And I didn't know if it was gonna work, but it was very important to me. I fought to have this structure the way it is, and so hope it works.

[Kate]

Do you finish books you know you.

[Charlie]

Aren'T liking when you read?

[Carissa Chen]

Yes, I do.

[Kate]

Me, too. Me too.

[Carissa Chen]

I push my way all to the end because, I don't know. You never know. It might, like, change at the end. I want to be able to know for sure, and I'm kind of a completist, so. But then that means that sometimes I spend, like, an entire year trying to read a book because I can only read, like, a page a day.

[Kate]

I know. And then I'm full of resentment. Like, somehow it's the author's fault that I've chosen to finish this book that I don't like. Favorite book to read to your son.

[Carissa Chen]

I will say that this isn't my favorite book to read to him, but it is a meaningful book to us is Guess How Much I Love youe. We've been reading that since he was in my stomach, and we read it for his entire first year until he finally got sick of it. Like, he could finally pick his own books for the entire first year of his life before he was born. We read that book, like, every day. And I can memorize, like, I have that book memorized.

[Charlie]

I remember an interview with an actress, and she'd been nominated for an Academy Award, and she was asked, what does this mean to you? And she said, it means to me that I'm going to be able to make my living through life as an actress. Do you feel, after this book, now I can do this. I'm a writer. I'm going to have this be my life.

[Carissa Chen]

I hope so. I don't know for sure. I think I'm a person who hedges her bets, but I hope so. You know, I've already told myself that I'm a writer. So no matter what, I'm going to keep writing. And I think that is what you need as a writer more than anything else, more than talent and good ideas or whatever. I think is resilience is like you keep going even when you have no external validation. You have to internalize that you are a writer. And like, this is meaningful. And I cannot have my life without it. So I will keep going no matter what.

[Charlie]

Good for you.

[Kate]

Yeah, we're enjoying your compulsion. Carissa Chen, thank you so much. The book is Home Seeking. Thank you so much for sitting with us.

[Charlie]

Once again, the book is Home Seeking. The author, Carissa Chen. It was a delight to talk with her, you know, last week when we were talking to so many authors about, about what makes a book. I, I, first of all, I think these are two wonderful characters. As I said, I'm really interested in what she said she wants people to take away from this book. As we talked to authors about last week, having that in mind, about the plight of immigrants. And as I say, it's a good book. It's a good for me.

[Kate]

You know, I think it's great that this conversation does come after last week because without our even asking, she volunteered, you know, I'm a pantser. I'm a seat of the pants writer, which I think is incredible given the scope of this book and the structure of this book. I love the idea that she started by writing this as a short story and then whoops, it was a novella, and then, whoops, it was a novel.

[Charlie]

But what you say is really that she can handle a novel with this many complex themes and this complexity of structure. She talked about how important structure is, and it's a fascinating structure. And if you read the book thinking all the time, she wrote this without plotting it all out in advance. She wrote this by the seat of her pants as and making it up as she goes. That's an amazing feat.

[Kate]

It goes back to, and I felt this way right from the intro of Home Seeking, that Kaveh Akbar quote where he says, you know, really good writers, they make things that are complicated and you think to yourself, can they pull this off? But then you get so caught up in the ride that you sort of forget whether, you know, the challenge of pulling it off. And I think that that happened with me with this book. You know when I read the introduction and she said, look, I'm gonna take you on this ride and one storyline's gonna go forward and one's gonna go backwards and there's go some changes in name and location. And I thought, all right, I'll see if you can pull this off. And then I'm just turning page after page because of this love story and wanting to know what happened to these characters. I can't wait to read what she writes next.

[Charlie]

The book is not of insignificant length, but it's one of those books where I got to the end and I wanted those characters to continue. I wanted to know more about them. Again, the book is Home Seeking. The author is Carissa Chen first novel. She does a really, really good job with her first novel, which, as you heard, was 20 years from the first thought entering her head until publication this week. Just a few days ago. One other thing we want to mention just very quickly, last week or a couple of weeks ago, we did a conversation with two academics about A Christmas Carol with Charles Dickens. Many people have let us know that they liked it. So we're thinking we will do some more of those. Kate and I were just talking a few moments ago about what might be interesting to do. Kate suggested the Great Gatsby, which I think would be great. I'm a huge lover of Jane Austen. I would love to talk to a couple of Jane Austen scholars, and there's plenty more. Steinbeck. We could do Catcher in the Rye. Catcher in the Rye. Exactly.

[Kate]

Fifty Shades of Gray.

[Charlie]

No, I'll tell you what, Kate. If you find a 50 shades of grey academic, I will take my hat off, God forbid.

[Kate]

I'm not even sure I want to meet at 50 Shades of Grey. Academic. Like, that's just terrifying on so many levels.

[Charlie]

But if you want to write a comment on the Apple website, let us know what you might enjoy in terms of academics giving us some backgrounds of classics. We'd love to hear it. We're going to give you the people who make this podcast possible. And then a nice coda from Carissa Chen. She gave us a poem which is, I thought, quite nice.

[Kate]

Yeah, stick around for it. Trust me, it's worth it.

[Charlie]

The bookcase with Kate and Charlie is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. We want to thank our executive producers Laura Mayer and Simone Swink. At Good Morning America, we want to make mention of Taylor Rhodes, Amanda McMaster, Sarah Russell and Matt Knox. And at ABC Audio, Josh Cohan, Asal Isanipour and Namia Maclean. And we want to thank especially our engineer Tom Butler.

[Carissa Chen]

This is Love After Love by Derek Walcott. The time will come when, with elation, you will greet yourself, arriving at your own door, in your own mirror, and each will smile at the other's welcome and say, sit here, eat. You will love again the stranger who was yourself. Give wine, give bread, give back your heart to itself, to the stranger who has loved you all your life, whom you ignored for another who knows you by heart. Take down the love letters from the bookshelf, the photographs, the desperate notes. Peel your own image from the mirror. Sit, feast on your life.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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